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Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson and this

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Speaker 1: is a full Disclosure podcast. Um. This episode is actually

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Speaker 1: sponsored by Focus Features. They have a new movie out

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Speaker 1: titled Darkest Hour, which stars Gary Oldman as Winston Churchill,

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Speaker 1: facing the challenges of leadership in her early days as

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Great Britain as World War Two unfolded

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Speaker 1: in Europe. One. If you just saw the ads, you

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Speaker 1: might not know that's Gary Oldman. They did some really

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Speaker 1: amazing makeup work on him to just to give you

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Speaker 1: a sense of what it's like. That movie is directed

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Speaker 1: by Joe Wright, who also directed Atonement which came out

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Speaker 1: a while back, and The Pride and Prejudice that came

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Speaker 1: out in two thousand five. It's very much in that

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Speaker 1: vein also the Karenina uh So, if you like his

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Speaker 1: film those films, you will probably like the s one.

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Speaker 1: Back when we did our episode on Christopher Lee, which

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Speaker 1: was one of our our Halloween Classic Horror actor biographies,

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Speaker 1: we mentioned in the course of that show that Lee

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Speaker 1: had been a part of Winston Churchill's secret military group

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Speaker 1: known as the Secret Operations Executive and by the more

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Speaker 1: colorful nickname the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare, and since then,

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Speaker 1: doing an episode on the Ministry has been on my list.

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Speaker 1: So when we were approached by Focus Features for a

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Speaker 1: sponsored episode, it was the first thing that we suggested,

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Speaker 1: and luckily they were game because that meant that I

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Speaker 1: had a good excuse to put in research time on it.

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Speaker 1: There is, I should say before we even go in

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Speaker 1: for expectations, Management purposes so much information on this topic

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Speaker 1: that we're doing a two parter and even so we

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Speaker 1: are really only scratching the surface on this. So uh,

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Speaker 1: just so you know what to expect, We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how the group got its start,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to cover four of its missions, uh,

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Speaker 1: and then we will discuss what happened to the s

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Speaker 1: o E after the war. So um, there are so

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Speaker 1: many more details and things to be gone into, but

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Speaker 1: even with two episodes, that is beyond our scope, So

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Speaker 1: just know that there's always more and we recommend some

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Speaker 1: books at the end of the second episode, and of

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Speaker 1: course we always have our show notes if you want

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Speaker 1: to learn more so we'll hop right in so. Writing

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Speaker 1: for the publication Studies and Intelligence, J. R. Seeger summed

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Speaker 1: up the role of the s OE in World War

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Speaker 1: Two this way quote the s O E and the

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Speaker 1: O s S center mix of combat and academic specialists

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Speaker 1: into this complex military and political environment with the objective

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Speaker 1: of disrupting Nazi occupation, forcing the Germans to maintain large

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Speaker 1: combat forces throughout the region, forces they should have transferred

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Speaker 1: some more strategic locations. These operations are true adventure stories

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Speaker 1: that rival any fiction written by Ian Fleming, Graham Green

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Speaker 1: or Alistair McClane. And as we talk particularly about missions,

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Speaker 1: you will probably think to yourself, if you have never

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Speaker 1: heard about these before, gosh, that sounds like a thing

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Speaker 1: I saw in a spy movie. There's a reason for that,

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Speaker 1: and it's because these stories did circulate and in sometime

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Speaker 1: in some ways inspired many of the spy movies that

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Speaker 1: you've seen. In May of nineteen forty, Germany, of course

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Speaker 1: attacked France in its quest to control Europe, defeated the

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Speaker 1: French forces and set up an occupation of the country.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about that on the show before, and at

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Speaker 1: this point, Winston Churchill and his colleagues knew that a

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Speaker 1: different approach was really going to need to be taken

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Speaker 1: when it came to battling the Nazis because they were

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Speaker 1: not having uh much success with the traditional methods, and

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Speaker 1: so a special secret organization was formed called these Special

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Speaker 1: Operations Executive, also known as the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare,

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Speaker 1: and the agents of this organization were to be placed

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Speaker 1: behind enemy lines where they would mount operations intended to

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Speaker 1: destroy the infrastructure that supported Germany's war effort and so

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Speaker 1: the seeds of revolt among the occupied populations. Hugh Dalton

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Speaker 1: was tapped to head the s o E on July

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Speaker 1: sixteenth of ninety and Dalton didn't have a military background,

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Speaker 1: but he was given the order from Churchill himself to

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Speaker 1: quote set Europe ablaze. Yeah. That line you'll often see

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Speaker 1: used as as a tagline in in articles and books

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Speaker 1: about this particular um organization. So in the fall of

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty, the s OE moved into a pretty low

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Speaker 1: key base of operations in Baker Street. Two flats normally

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Speaker 1: rented to families became the secret headquarters, and from that

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Speaker 1: location Dalton's group began recruiting and soon it had offices

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Speaker 1: throughout Great Britain, and the locations for these installations were

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Speaker 1: not offices in the sense that you would think of

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Speaker 1: an office building, and they were not military style compounds.

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Speaker 1: They were homes and mansions with ample room inside and

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Speaker 1: out for training exercises from close hand combat to train derailment.

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Speaker 1: And the training that happened in these facilities was exactly

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Speaker 1: what you might expect. It was the kind of things

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Speaker 1: that you've probably seen in spy movies. So how to

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Speaker 1: escape handcuffs with everyday implements like pencil and a little

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Speaker 1: bit of wire, how to apply disguises, how to subdue

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Speaker 1: and even kill an enemy efficiently without a weapon. So

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Speaker 1: the ministry quickly grew, establishing offices all throughout the European

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Speaker 1: theater and recruiting people in every locality. Yeah, I should

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Speaker 1: also note that they also had locations that were just

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Speaker 1: dedicated to things like technology development and communications, but they

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Speaker 1: were all squirreled away in these these sort of innocuous

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Speaker 1: looking living places. Volunteering for duty with this organization meant

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Speaker 1: in essence that the people that were offering their services

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Speaker 1: knew that they were very likely to be killed in

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Speaker 1: the field for example, wireless operators deployed by the s

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Speaker 1: o E into occupied France had an average life expectancy

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Speaker 1: of just six weeks. And even people that were hired

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Speaker 1: into things like secretarial work back in Great Britain were

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Speaker 1: told in no uncertain terms that that job could result

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Speaker 1: in capture, torture, and execution by the Germans. But the

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Speaker 1: knowledge that the Nazi regime had to be stopped outweighed

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Speaker 1: people's concerns of personal safety. Once a potential agent was

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Speaker 1: trained in combat and completed a parachute course, then they

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Speaker 1: were ready for field operations. This doesn't sound like a

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Speaker 1: lot of training, but it was rigorous and grueling, and

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Speaker 1: by the time I got through it, they were considered

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Speaker 1: to be ready beyond all doubt. Yeah, they did an

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Speaker 1: astonishing amount of training, especially because in many cases they

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Speaker 1: were going into really unkind just um climate conditions, and

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Speaker 1: it was apparently one of those things like if you

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Speaker 1: survive all this, then you are ready. So clearly it

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Speaker 1: definitely pushed people's limits. And in addition to training agents,

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Speaker 1: the s o E also supplied them with new technologies

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Speaker 1: and some old school theatrical style tricks to aid them

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Speaker 1: in their missions. So prop makers were hired to work

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Speaker 1: in a North London shop concocting concealment devices. Molds of

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Speaker 1: tree trunks were really popular as camouflage devices, so they

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Speaker 1: could hide everything from radio equipment to explosives. This is

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Speaker 1: one of the aspects of this that reminds me a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the Ghost Army in their deceptions. Special

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Speaker 1: clothing was made that would be fashionable and stylish, but

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Speaker 1: could also conceal any number of tricks and disguised weapons.

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Speaker 1: There was an entire department that was instituted just to

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Speaker 1: create false documents, providing agents with new identities and any

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Speaker 1: other papers that they might need on missions. In a

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Speaker 1: house in Hertfordshire, clever minds worked tirelessly to create all

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Speaker 1: manner of gadgets and assistive implements. A cigarette pistol that

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Speaker 1: was loaded with a single shot was developed, as was

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Speaker 1: a canoe that could actually drop underwater when it was needed,

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Speaker 1: which was nicknamed Sleeping Beauty. What everyone who knew about

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Speaker 1: the s o E was a fan and my six

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Speaker 1: evolved from a group that was contemporary with the s

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Speaker 1: o E called the Secret Intelligence Service or s i S.

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Speaker 1: Sir Stewart Menzies the head of the s I S

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Speaker 1: thought that the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare was amateur and dangerous.

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Speaker 1: He felt like their covert approach could lead to all

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Speaker 1: kinds of very real problems, both for themselves and for

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Speaker 1: his own group. These were valid concerns because the s

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Speaker 1: o E was working outside the normal chain of command

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Speaker 1: that would keep other government entities aware of their movements.

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Speaker 1: So there's a pretty high likelihood that their missions could

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Speaker 1: directly interfere with his own agents that were working to

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Speaker 1: collect intelligence to aid the war effort. Menzies was very

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Speaker 1: blunt in his position that the s o E posed

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Speaker 1: greater danger than the benefit it offered justified, so he

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Speaker 1: lobbied against it. Yeah, and he was not the only one.

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Speaker 1: There were certainly a lot of people that one. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people did not know about it for quite

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Speaker 1: a while. And to the people that didn't know about it,

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Speaker 1: there was some that's not really the way we do things, um,

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Speaker 1: So it met with some resistance right from the beginning. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The s i S, as we said, was not the

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Speaker 1: only detractor. The s OE often requisitioned aircraft from Bomber

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Speaker 1: Command without having to give any details as to the

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Speaker 1: planned used for those planes, and the ability for another

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Speaker 1: branch to just swoop in and take planes really rank

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Speaker 1: rankled the bombers, particularly because of concerns that their assets

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Speaker 1: were being used in missions that potentially could be deemed unethical. Additionally,

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Speaker 1: there was doubt that a small unit could be effective

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Speaker 1: at all. It seemed really unrealistic to expect anything but

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Speaker 1: bombers to stop the advance of Germany's Nazis. In March

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Speaker 1: of ninety one, there had been a failed SOE mission

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Speaker 1: called Operation Savannah that was the first attempts to drop

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Speaker 1: free French operatives into German occupied France by a parachute.

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Speaker 1: The objective was to ambush a Nazi bomber unit and

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Speaker 1: kill as many pilots as possible, But that mission had

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Speaker 1: to be aboarded when it turned out that the information

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Speaker 1: they were using to plan the mission was outdated, the

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Speaker 1: pilots weren't going to be accessible to the operatives as

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Speaker 1: had been expected. Yeah, it was one of those things

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Speaker 1: where like their schedules had changed and they were being

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Speaker 1: driven from place to place in a different in a

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Speaker 1: different way than had originally been planned around, and so

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Speaker 1: it was like what do we do? And they just

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Speaker 1: canceled the whole thing. But despite the failure of this

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Speaker 1: much contested mission, there had been objections as to the

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Speaker 1: use of agents stressed as civilians to carry out such

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Speaker 1: a task. Again, that falls in the that's not how

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Speaker 1: we do it category, and there were certainly still internal

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Speaker 1: pressures to close down the s OE. The group survived,

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Speaker 1: and that was because Winston Churchill felt that this new

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Speaker 1: clandestine branch of their anti Nazi agenda was vital to

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Speaker 1: turning the tide of war. Fortunately, just shy of a

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Speaker 1: year into its existence, the s OE executed a mission

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Speaker 1: that justified Churchill's unwavering support. So before we get into

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Speaker 1: the details of that mission, we're going to pause for

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Speaker 1: a quick sponsor break. By June, the Nazis that were

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Speaker 1: occupying France had bases and supply chains up and running

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Speaker 1: throughout the country. A U boat base had been established

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Speaker 1: in Bordeaux, which was one of six that the Nazis

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Speaker 1: established in France over the course of the war. That's

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Speaker 1: so we realized that the power station at Pessek was

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Speaker 1: supplying power to the submarine base, as well as to

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Speaker 1: several factories and chemical manufacturers in the area that had

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Speaker 1: all been seized by Nazi troops, so knock out the

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Speaker 1: station and Germany's production in the area would grind to

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Speaker 1: a halt. Bombers were considered for the task, but it

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Speaker 1: was quickly determined that there was just too great a

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Speaker 1: risk for to the civilian population for bombers to be used,

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Speaker 1: so a plan code named Operation Josephine B was cooked up.

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Speaker 1: It required a small group of operatives to parachute into Pessock,

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Speaker 1: get to the trans Armor station by getting past a

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Speaker 1: high fence, deal with guards, get into the main building,

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Speaker 1: and then plant explosives in key areas to blast the plant.

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Speaker 1: To execute this plan, the s o E turned to

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Speaker 1: the Free French forces and three men volunteered. Those men

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Speaker 1: were Sergeant Jean Pierre Fourmand, sub Lieutenant Raymond Cabao, and

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Speaker 1: sub Lieutenant On Blai Vomnie. The mission actually took some

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Speaker 1: time to play out. The men were parachuted in on

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Speaker 1: May eleventh, and their reconnoisance made it clear that while

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Speaker 1: the wall that was around the compound was lower than

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Speaker 1: they thought it was, it was nine ft versus the

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Speaker 1: sixteen feet they'd anticipated. There were guards right inside of it,

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Speaker 1: and there was a high tension wire atop it. The men,

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Speaker 1: through their own investigation and through contact with other French operatives,

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Speaker 1: gained some additional information that would aid their mission. Though

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Speaker 1: the guards knocked off just before midnight and the main

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Speaker 1: building was essentially unguarded after that. Yeah, there was some

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Speaker 1: laziness that played to their benefit that come up a

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Speaker 1: few times um. When they moved to execute this mission,

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Speaker 1: Formont was able to scale the wall, vault over that

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Speaker 1: wire and then make his way to the ground inside

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Speaker 1: the fence, and then he just let his fellows in,

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Speaker 1: and over the course of half an hour, the men

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Speaker 1: pretty easily made their way into the station, planted their explosives,

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Speaker 1: and made their getaway on bicycles. And as they pedaled away,

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Speaker 1: eight perfectly timed explosions went off behind them, destroying the

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Speaker 1: facility and in turn cutting power to the U boat

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Speaker 1: base and to all of the railways in the area

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Speaker 1: that supplied the Nazi troops. The German war effort in

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Speaker 1: the area was halted for weeks. That definitely sounds like

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Speaker 1: a scene out of a movie. The bicycles while the

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Speaker 1: things explode behind them. Yeah, it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: where when you're reading accounts from people that were there.

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Speaker 1: You realize how much of cinema has been built off

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Speaker 1: of those firsthand accounts, because they do talk about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we were peddling madly and we could hear the bombs

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Speaker 1: behind us, and I turned to look briefly, but then

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Speaker 1: I had to keep peddling, and and it's like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is all just like movies, and it's it's taken

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Speaker 1: from the kinds of things that these men wrote about

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Speaker 1: in their private journals. So this mission, unsurprisingly given what

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Speaker 1: we just described, was considered a success, but it also

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Speaker 1: evidenced a problem that would repeat itself on subsequent missions.

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Speaker 1: The Germans blamed the locals and then punished them with fines, imprisonment,

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Speaker 1: and curfew. In the case of the Sex explosion, retribution

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Speaker 1: would be far harsher. After a nineteen forty two s

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Speaker 1: OE operation in Czechoslovakia, so the German Protector of Czechoslovakia,

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Speaker 1: Eric Reinhard Heydrich, was targeted for assassination. He had moved

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Speaker 1: into a country estate north of Prague and had to

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Speaker 1: travel the approximately twelve miles about nineteen kilometers back and

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Speaker 1: forth to the city to Prague Castle most days, and

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Speaker 1: he did this without a security escort, because he felt

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Speaker 1: that employing one would make him look weak and afraid,

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Speaker 1: and that was not the image he wanted to project

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Speaker 1: of himself or Germany. So the most logical plan for

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Speaker 1: an assassination was to strike Haydris Mercedes as it traveled

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Speaker 1: between his home and Prague. The s o E worked

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Speaker 1: closely with check Intelligence services on this plan, begetting in

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Speaker 1: October of The route was examined carefully looking for the

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Speaker 1: best locations who attacked the vehicle, ideally at a spot

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Speaker 1: where the car would have to slow down and which

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Speaker 1: was distant enough from where the s S units were

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Speaker 1: garrisoned that it offered the s o S people the

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Speaker 1: best possible likelihood of escape. Czech soldiers who had been

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Speaker 1: stationed in exiling Great Britain were reviewed for potential participation,

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Speaker 1: and out of two thousand possible candidates, twelve were selected

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Speaker 1: for training. And the soldiers did not know precisely what

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Speaker 1: they were being selected for, but the mortal danger of

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Speaker 1: the situation was communicated to them. After agreeing to the training,

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Speaker 1: the men were put through a grueling six program at

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Speaker 1: an s o E training center in Scotland. The training

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Speaker 1: was intense it pushed the men's physical, technical, and mental proficiency.

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Speaker 1: They learned to make bombs, to rock climb, to survive

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Speaker 1: all manner of conditions without any kind of aid, and

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Speaker 1: then their psychological fitness and limits were constantly scrutinized. This

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Speaker 1: mission came with a very high risk of capture, and

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Speaker 1: the s o E leadership wanted to find the men

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Speaker 1: who were the most capable of performing even in the

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Speaker 1: incredibly high pressure and high risk situation that this mission

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Speaker 1: was requiring. Yeah, there are a lot of talks about

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Speaker 1: how they really tested their how much stress they could handle,

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Speaker 1: and how it's easy to perceive that as the trainers

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Speaker 1: being sort of messochistic, but they really were trying to

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Speaker 1: find exactly where their limit was so that they knew

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Speaker 1: who could really have the best chance of executing and

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Speaker 1: surviving the plan. Two Czech soldiers were eventually chosen, Joseph

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Speaker 1: gub Cheek and Young Kubis, who emerged as the most

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Speaker 1: suitable for the mission, which was co named Operation Anthropoid,

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Speaker 1: and they were told in preparation that what they were

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Speaker 1: training for was an assassination mission and that it was

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Speaker 1: very likely that they would not survive, but both men

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Speaker 1: agreed to the job, gup Cheek acknowledging that such a

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Speaker 1: risk was simply part of war, and Kobish actually thanking

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Speaker 1: command for selecting him. This mission was really a logistical challenge.

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Speaker 1: There would only be a four to five second window

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Speaker 1: during which the car was in range, and the explosive

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Speaker 1: needed to be one that was small enough to carry

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Speaker 1: in a briefcase, powerful enough to pierce the armored Mercedes,

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Speaker 1: and designed in such a way that the person deploying

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Speaker 1: it would not also be killed. A hybrid grenade was designed,

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Speaker 1: which was powerful but light enough for an operative to

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Speaker 1: throw it. The explosive designed by the s O E

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Speaker 1: was so powerful that the two men were told they

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Speaker 1: would have to take immediate cover after it was thrown

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Speaker 1: because it was expected to throw a great deal of shrapnel.

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Speaker 1: It has also been theorized that the bomb may have

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Speaker 1: been laced with a biological agent known only as X,

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Speaker 1: but this is something that the bomb's designers always denied. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it comes up in the German records, as a German

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Speaker 1: doctor said that he thought that something like that had

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Speaker 1: happened as well, but it's never been confirmed. And the

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Speaker 1: men were dropped into Czechoslovakia on December ninety one, and

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Speaker 1: for a month no one heard from them. It turned

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Speaker 1: out that God Chick had hurt his leg on the landing,

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Speaker 1: and locals had taken care of the two men, moving

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Speaker 1: them from safe house to safe house over the course

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Speaker 1: of six weeks, and during that time they also gathered

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Speaker 1: information and refined their plan. So we're going to pause

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Speaker 1: there while the men planned the completion of their mission,

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Speaker 1: so we can have one more quick sponsor break and

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Speaker 1: then we will jump back into the action. May two

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Speaker 1: was selected as a date to carry out the mission.

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Speaker 1: So I want to point out that that's how five

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Speaker 1: month gap between when they were dropped and when they

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Speaker 1: actually carried it out, and that was not uncommon. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like they would just drop people into occupied territory

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Speaker 1: and they would quickly go do the thing and then

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Speaker 1: come back. They usually were having to survive for a

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Speaker 1: while because they had to get boots on the ground,

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Speaker 1: see what was really going on, whether it confirmed the

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Speaker 1: intelligence they had been given, and then refine the plan

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Speaker 1: and make sure that they were ready for everything. So

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Speaker 1: if these there these cases were there large gaps between

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Speaker 1: their arrival and the actual fulfillment of the plan, and

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Speaker 1: that is why. And while gob Chick and Kubish waited

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Speaker 1: near the selected location on that May S day, an

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Speaker 1: accomplice nearby watched the road, ready to signal with a

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Speaker 1: mirror when Hydric's car approached. And that morning, for some

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Speaker 1: random reason, Hydrake had chosen to walk about the grounds

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Speaker 1: of his estate with his family, and so his trip

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Speaker 1: to Prague ran a good bit later than normal. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: though the two assassins saw the hand mirror flash signal,

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Speaker 1: they prepared to execute on all the training and planning

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Speaker 1: that they had done leading up to that moment. As

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Speaker 1: the car approached and slowed down, dab Chick stepped into

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Speaker 1: the road and fired at the car with a Spend

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Speaker 1: submachine gun, which jammed. Kubish threw the explosive into the

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Speaker 1: car and it immediately detonated. He was hit with the shrapnel.

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Speaker 1: Hydrick and his chauffeur, Johannes Klein emerged from the vehicle

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Speaker 1: firing weapons. The Czechoslovakian operatives returned fire, but then Hydrick collapsed.

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Speaker 1: He had in fact been hit by shrapnel and clins

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Speaker 1: gun jammed. Kubish was able to get to a safe

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Speaker 1: house on a bicycle and got Chick was pursued by Kline,

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Speaker 1: but he eventually managed to wound the Nazi and flee

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Speaker 1: to a safe house himself. Initially, the men actually thought

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Speaker 1: their mission had failed because when they had last seen

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Speaker 1: both of those men, they were alive. Hydrick was taken

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Speaker 1: to a hospital and went immediately into surgery. He had

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Speaker 1: a broken rib, a ruptured diaphragm, and a damaged spleen.

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Speaker 1: He lived for eight days before he died of septi simia.

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Speaker 1: Hydric had been a high ranking Nazi and Hitler was

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Speaker 1: infuriated by this assassination. A man hunt for the killers

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Speaker 1: was mounted. House to how sweeps were carried out, but

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Speaker 1: the two men had taken refuge in the catacombs of

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Speaker 1: a cathedral, and while the s s hunted for Gab

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Speaker 1: Chicken Kobish. The locals paid a steep price for this attack.

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Speaker 1: This time it was far worse than the fallout after

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Speaker 1: the power station had been destroyed. The small village of

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00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: Litiza was targeted on the grounds that it was believed

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Speaker 1: to have some kind of connection to the attack. A

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Speaker 1: hundred and ninety nine men lived there, and all of

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Speaker 1: them were executed. There were a hundred women and children,

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Speaker 1: and they were all sent to concentration camps, where most

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Speaker 1: of them died in gas chambers. There was also a

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Speaker 1: radio transmission that linked another village to the plot, and

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Speaker 1: all of that village's inhabitants were executed by the ss GB.

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Speaker 1: Chick and Kobish probably would have stayed in hiding and

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Speaker 1: not been discovered, but they were eventually betrayed by a

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Speaker 1: collaborator named Carol Kurda. The says storm to the church

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Speaker 1: where the men were hiding, and a two hour firefight

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00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: played out in which both gab Chick and Kubish were killed.

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00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: Kubish had been captured, injured but still alive, and the

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00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: Germans actually took him to a hospital for treatment, hoping

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Speaker 1: they could get information out of him, but he died

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Speaker 1: very shortly after he was taken into custody. We're going

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Speaker 1: to stop there, uh, not going to specifically call it

395
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: a cliffhanger, because we are going to talk about people

396
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: literally climbing cliffs in the next chapter. The next time,

397
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: we're going to pick up with a raid on a

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00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: Greek viaduct meant to help stop the Nazis supply lines. Yeah,

399
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: there's so much more to this story. Like I said,

400
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: even in two episodes were barely touching it. There's so

401
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: much stuff and it's amazing. So instead of usual listener

402
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: mail today, I'm doing generalized listener pronuncia agent correction, my

403
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: least favorite subject of all. That doesn't bother me. If

404
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: that's my worst crime, I'm okay. Like, I will always

405
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 1: try to do my best, but I won't always get

406
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: it right, and that's fine. Um. Several people have written

407
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: to comment that we pronounced the name the French name

408
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: j E A n n E. I'm not even gonna

409
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: say it wrong. I know that's like that one French

410
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: word I never get right. Um. There are others, but

411
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: that one has always been like a thorn in my side.

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00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: So apologies, We'll keep working on it. I shall point

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00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: out that, um, we have also gotten some corrections that

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00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: are themselves incorrect. Well, and this is a thing that

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Speaker 1: happens all the time with pronunciations. We will get We

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00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: will get emails thanking us for pronouncing a word correctly

417
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: and emails criticizing us for pronouncing the exact same word incorrectly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, we've talked about this many times before.

419
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: There are so many factors involved one people's ears here

420
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: words differently. Um. In addition to the subtle variances in pronunciation.

421
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: We always do our best, we don't always get it right.

422
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: I did have to laugh though, when someone had emailed

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Speaker 1: us and asked why we did not pronounce the R

424
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: in George Millier's name, but we did pronounce the R

425
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: in the Lumier brother's name. There is no R and

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00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: George Millier. So that's why I'm not I don't mean

427
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: to make fun of that person. It's just just an

428
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: example of how like your perception of what you hear

429
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: and what things are is not always clean. For lack

430
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: of a better word, UM, yeah, I mean we all

431
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: have done it. I just thought it was kind of

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00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: entertaining on that particular example. We'll also get emails sometimes

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00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: that are like, the way that you pronounced the word

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00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: is this, and then the phonetic pronunciation that they spell out.

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00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, that is how we said it, so

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00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: obviously how you pronounce this, like how you pronounced the

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00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: words the letters PO you are as poor, is not

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00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: the same as how we pronounced po you are as poor,

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00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: because that is the same thing that I had in

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00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: my notes. Well, the beautiful thing to remember is like

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00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: when we did an episode on Creons, which is how

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00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: I say it, there was like a crazy bonfire of

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00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: of madness on our social media because there are people

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00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: that say it very differently from one another, all of

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00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: whom native English speaker, and that people got really ugly

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00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: with each other about it. And I was like, y'all

447
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: need to just calm mad um. But to me, that's

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00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, of course you want to get

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00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: things right and not misconstrued meanings through mispronunciation. But um,

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00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of one of the wonders of

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00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: of being a human is that we all do it

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00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: a little different. Sometimes we find ways that are patently wrong,

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00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: and others smiths just to flourish anyway, they're getting eight

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00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: or ten contradictory emails about how to pronounce something. It is, Uh,

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00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: that's the scoop. My apologies to people who maybe go

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00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: crazy with those. It's it's fine. I'm sorry. I'll do

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00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: my best. Uh. I understand there are certain little pecadillos

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00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: that I am very nippicky about that I have learned

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00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: to just let go. But sometimes it's hard. If it's

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00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: a thing you love or care about. I understand anyway,

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00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us and correct

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00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: us in some way, you can do so at History Podcast.

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00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: At house works dot com. You can also visit us

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00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: across the spectrum of social media as missed in History

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00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: that includes Twitter, Facebook, Tumbler, Pinterest, Instagram, who are there

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00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: hanging Out? You can also visit our homepage, which is

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00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: missed in History dot com, and there you will find

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00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: every episode of the show that has ever existed, with

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00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: all of the pronunciations right and wrong, and show notes

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00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: for every episode that Tracy and I have worked on.

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00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: So come and visit us have missed in History dot com.

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00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit

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00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: stop works dot com.