WEBVTT - The Secrets of Scent Marketing – How Smells are Manipulating Your Behavior 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.200 I can always smell when someone's cheating, like if their 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.960 husband and wife is to No, you can't, Yeah, I 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.680 can if it's it's a cur Really, and. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:10.760 You're sure this should have been the start? 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:18.280 Really now, really, really. 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.400 Now, really hello, and welcome to really Know Really with 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.720 day's Alexander and Peter Tilben, who remind you there is 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.520 no sweeter smelled in success and ours depends on you. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.959 So if you enjoy our show, please subscribe. And speaking 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.720 of sweet smells, this episode reveals the secrets of the 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:43.320 forty billion dollars cent marketing industry. Internationally recognized olfactory expert 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.520 Dawn Goldworm explains how smells can be used to influence 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.800 our behavior and even manipulate us. What a Disney smellitzer 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.920 is and how she's able to smell things we can't, 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.560 like colors and shapes. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.760 And who you were with last night? Really no, really, 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:02.560 now you're a Jason and Peter. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.800 I think today's topic is going to be something right 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:08.320 up your rally, because. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.480 A nose isn't I'm just saying, I'm just saying I 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.360 didn't anticipate that that's where we were going to start. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.600 And uh, by the way, you have a lovely, uh 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:19.800 fragrance about you today? 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.440 Are you wearing anything? Are you wearing I. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.560 Always wear something light. I know it's light like a light. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:25.480 I don't know. 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:26.880 You don't know. 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.679 I don't know you put it on, you know what? 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.720 I have many different sense so I don't know. They're 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:32.120 all good? 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.080 And the other week? Do you do a cent for 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:34.800 every day of the week? 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:36.479 You're inquisitive? 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:37.600 Is it a mood? 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.800 A mood like George Costanzo would dress for his mood? 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:43.319 Are you doing a mood? 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:43.840 Know? 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:44.080 No? 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.160 I just I have certain sense that I like and 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.520 I have them and I can you name one of them? No, 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.960 I don't notice what they are. No, because when I 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.639 run out of a scent, Yeah, I just try something different. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:54.520 I just like to try and. 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.280 Am Well, you're you're an advertisements dream, aren't you. Most 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.880 people by your age have decided grass is their toothpaste, 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.520 their cold getting you. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.280 I should use like Polo for the rest of my life. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.240 That's right, And I'm then a ninety year old that 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.120 smells like a dead Ralph Lauren Ralph lare No. I like. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:16.760 I like experimenting with sense, which is why today's today's episode. Yeah, 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.680 very it's fascinating to me because you know, I read 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.560 a lot and I knew kind of that, like Disneyland 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.720 has Smellitzers. And then I saw the really, no, really 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.920 is that the upcoming trend is digitizing smell. And I 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.960 started to go deep and I saw they're trying to 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.160 do smells in virtual reality now. And then I saw 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.639 that everybody and their brother is trying to come up 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.160 with a scent because it can be so powerful. So 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.120 we wanted to get on somebody, and you did it. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:41.120 Who was an expert? 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:41.800 You did it? 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.959 As woman is the co founder and knows or Scent 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:50.400 director of her Olfactive branding company twelve twenty nine. I 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.720 believe it's like a date maybe, and it uses the 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.640 visceral language of scent to transform brand building in the 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.760 actual buildings where clients reside. She spent five years in 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.880 per Hunry School. I spent two years in acting school. 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.120 What she does better than I do? What I She 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.480 also has a master's degree at New York University, where 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.720 her thesis focused on oh Factory branding. Our guest today 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:17.720 ms Don Goldworm, Hi Don, Hi, how are you smell? 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.079 Are you? Are you there? 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.079 Because you don't want to either give us your fragrance 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.919 or chance, the fact, whatever the hell Peter's wearing. 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:26.520 You just don't want to be abused by it. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.000 I try to keep a screen between me and most 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:30.760 people that I don't know to smell that. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.240 Well, let's jump in, we'll jump into that if you 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.800 can explain, because this is fascinating to start with this, 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.040 explain what sinnith synesthesia is that you and your sister 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.440 both have well, how do you say it? 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:44.360 Synesthesia? 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.680 Synesthesia? Because this is this is this launches the whole deal. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:55.080 I guess synesthesia is a particular way of seeing the world. 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:56.520 They used to think it was a disease. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.720 But essentially, as you get inputs, sensorial input, your brain 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:05.040 doesn't codify it or understand it the way most people's does. 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.320 So for instance, some cinistiats when they hear music, they 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:08.920 taste it. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:09.720 Oh, I have. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.600 Right, Or so when you some people see letters and 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.760 numbers and they don't actually see them as black and white, 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.960 they see the colors. So there's various different types of 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.240 sinacs there. What I have five different types of synaseeses. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.160 So my life is kind of like an LSD trip 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.720 at all times, Like I'm constantly getting input and it's 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.359 coming out in the wrong directions. Fortunately for me, smell 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.920 synesthesia is actually the only synesthetic effect that's not subjective, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.000 which means that when I smell something and I automatically 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.839 see a color, everyone else in the world, if you 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.039 give them a color board, will choose the same color. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:47.600 Really, I just do it all. 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.200 Wow, Let me just test this a little bit. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.839 So if I if I were to pass essence of 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.599 rose under you, you would see. 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.719 I see well, I would see pink, green, red, yellow, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:02.520 and brown. 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.520 You would probably see pink. 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:06.360 I would probably that's what I was thinking. I would 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:06.839 see pink. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.719 And if I if I put the smell of garlic 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:13.560 under you, what do you see? 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.000 That's interesting. So food has a different association. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.280 So all factive preferences, which are what we like and 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.200 what we don't like, are built through culture, generation and 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.240 living environment, and food is a. 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:25.960 Big part of that. 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.120 So the globalization of food and how it moves and 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.320 what you're exposed to can change your color association. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:33.839 So we tend not to do it with food. We 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:35.520 do it with things that are pure factants. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.719 So things that you just smell that you don't you 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.800 don't retronasally put into your mouth and understand. Meaning you know, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.480 there's automolecules everywhere, So if you smell them with your nose, 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.960 that's what we play this game with, not which you 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.000 would smell through your mouth. 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.000 Right, some lawn grass. 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.160 What do you see the grass we do it with. 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.800 So if you give someone haxanol, which is the smell 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.919 of grass, it's a synthetic molecule that we recreated. This 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.160 smell like grass because we can't get anything out of grass. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:04.760 Everyone says it smells green. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.680 Obviously, yeah, is that because of the amount of chlorophyll 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:11.120 that's in plant material? 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.080 Is that? Do we associate chlorophyll with a green color? 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:16.520 With green? You know? 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:21.440 So we don't completely understand why this color and smell 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.720 association exists in. 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.120 Humans because obviously we don't know if it exists. 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:27.800 In animals so much because we're not allowed to cut 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.200 open the human brain. But what we seem to understand 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.640 if it's some kind of young in our typical response, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.120 and about ninety seven percent. 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.560 Of people globally have it. 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.760 So we've done tests all around the world to understand 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.720 if you give people a color board, even if you 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:49.039 give them crayons, or paint. Everyone colors the same picture given. First, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.320 we start with raw materials like rose, like veterver, like mandarin, 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.360 things that people might know, and then we go into 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.240 simple formulas to see if it still happens the same way. 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.920 And what's even more fascinating is as you do different generations, 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.400 if someone likes what they're smelling, there'll be something called 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:06.560 the hedonic. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.599 Skew, so they'll use colors they like. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.000 And with Instagram and Facebook and phones, people use more 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.280 blue and purple just because they like blue and purple 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:16.160 based on social media. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.600 There's so much I want to ask you. Let's go 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.480 to the digitization first, is that, in fact happening. Are 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.520 we minutes away from seeing a picture on a phone 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.120 and smelling what that picture is? Because I heard they're 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:28.600 trying not only to do that, but when you get 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.679 it closer to your nose that the rose gets more powerful. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:33.400 You're laughing. So it's enough. 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.200 About ten years ago, so I meditated in the morning. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:38.320 About ten years ago. 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.400 So I was sitting in meditating, and I just moved 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.600 back from Paris and we were starting this company in 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:43.240 our apartments. 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:44.320 I'm sitting in meditating. 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.360 I pick up my phone when I'm done, and there's 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.920 an email from a friend of mine who's a very 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.320 famous perfumer, and he sends me an emails saying Google's 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.880 finally figured it out. Google Nose is launching now, and 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.760 I runt my computer in the living room and I'm 0:07:58.760 --> 0:07:59.800 trying to download on my phone. 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.680 It's not working. I'm not really good with tech, but 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:02.920 I'm trying to hoload it. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.080 On my screen and I'm going like this and I'm 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.920 trying to smell the screen, and my sister comes in, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.120 my identical twin sister who I started the company, was 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:10.440 just like. 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.880 What are you doing? And I was like, Google nos 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.440 it's happening. I just can't get it to download. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.840 And scroll down to the bottom and it says you 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.920 either don't have the latest software or maybe it's just 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:22.880 a book fool's day. 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.120 Oh, And my sister is like, why did you think 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.800 all of this sudden? The entire palette of fragrance ingredients 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.360 was in your computer and you'd be able to smell it. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.760 And I was like, I have no idea. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.560 Because, as far as you know, fragrance would not be 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.600 able to transmit electronically. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:40.840 Right. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.400 It's a chemical, So there. 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.440 Are phones that Japan manufactured, ah, this must have been 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.840 about ten years ago that do a metodor. They put 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:52.679 fragrance materials in the back of the phone and they 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.400 used heat so that when someone calls you, you know, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.200 heat would activate the molecules and they would become airborne 0:08:58.400 --> 0:08:59.760 and viatol and you could smell them. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.240 So it's totally possible. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.480 But it's not that the technology to transmit this information 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.840 isn't there. We have that electronically. What we don't have 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.840 is a way to put the actual fragrance ingredients in 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.440 the machine to get it, because first of all, it 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.319 has an expiration. They you know, it's it's delicate, it's sensitive, 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.240 like what levels would we. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:20.679 Put it at? 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.160 Which chemicals do we feel are safe in the hands 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.800 of consumers, Like it's it's yeah, we're not even close. 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.920 So aside from that, part of this was about the 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.959 fact that the New York Times has said that more 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.800 and more industries that you would never suspect would be 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.840 using scent marketing and a couple that with scent is 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.240 so powerful it can increase customers spend by twenty percent. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.040 Sometimes I've read about food markets to pipe at a 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.360 gas station piped in coffee smell and took their coffee 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.960 sales up three hundred percent. But the weirdest one for 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:53.520 me was shoe department. They tested shoes in one room 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.840 and another one was sent and whatnot, and the amount 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.200 of people that actually purchased the shoes in the scented 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.720 room was through the room. The number was insane. Are 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.800 this that accurate? Is that storytelling? 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.640 So we don't do hard ROI. But what we do 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:09.640 test is loyalty. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.199 So when we work with a brand versus an unsent 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.520 environment and then when it becomes scented, the. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.440 Way we test loyalty is people start coming and asking. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.920 They said, you know, I've been here a few times 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.800 and I just love the experience I'm having and it 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.760 smells so good. Can I bring that home? And then 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.560 you start getting asked over and over again, can I 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.120 bring this mall home? Can I bring this mall home? 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:30.240 And we work with banks. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.920 If someone wants to bring the smell of a bank 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:34.160 to their house, I think. 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:34.800 You did a good job. 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.080 You're sitting in here living room somebody else make a deposit. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.120 Wow, But you also did. 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.680 I read that you helped Nike develop a signature scent 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:43.640 for their stores. 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:44.680 We did. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.679 We worked with Nike for many years pre covid. Nike is, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.240 you know, arguably the biggest brand in the world. It 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.400 is not one of the biggest, so their target market 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.040 is huge. How do you create a scent for everyone 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.600 in the world? And so I look at their target 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.400 profile and I said, okay, what combines all of these 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.840 different groups of people from feet my sister's son to 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.480 my grandmother to like guys that go to the gym, 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.960 to skateboarders, like everyone all over the world. And what 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.920 it was is it was through sport. And so we 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.280 did the smell of a soccer cleat and dirt. There 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.800 was a dirt molecule, a grass molecule, the smell of 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.880 the shoe. We did basketball as it gets oily from 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.960 your hands. You remember that smell, the smell of a 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.880 basketball sneaker as it skids on the basketball court. That 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.000 sound has a very specific smell. When you work out 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.120 at the gym, you're sweat mixed with the rubber that 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.920 they use on those machines. And then specifically a pair 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:41.960 of Air Force ones when you open the box, not 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.360 Air Jordan or Airmax, but Air Force ones. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:51.160 It's a specific related. Now, Okay, I used to be 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:57.120 an advertising. You present your creative to the company, and 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.080 again you do all the work up front, and then 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.680 you create, you send to three people who are deciding 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.480 or the chairman's wife. It's really subjective. So you may 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.320 have done the right work. How do you sell it 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.120 to the company so that somebody there who has no 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.920 idea about this stuff? I mean like we're sitting here 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.720 in a gape going, oh my god, I can't believe 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.200 this stuff. How do you sell that person who has zero, 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.559 zero information on this and convince them to say. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:26.560 Yes when the scent comes back. There's hundreds of people 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:27.160 sometimes that. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.920 Have to reprove it right. So how do we do 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:30.480 that right? 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.679 Well, your old fact of preferences are not subjective, like 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.000 you think you like what you like. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:36.800 Now. 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:38.560 I heard you talking about the colonial wear and you're 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:40.880 a butterfly. We call you a butterfly. You're constantly picking 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.599 a new one, and you think, well, my sense is 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.480 smell is my own, and it's not as good as 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.760 my friends, or it's different than my wife's. But that's 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.960 actually not necessarily true. So our old facts of preferences 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.680 are based on our childhood, which is conditioned by our generation, 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.360 our living environment, and our culture. And then there's so 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.199 many smells within those first ten years of life, from 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.200 laundry detergent to floor cleaners, to perfume that's around you, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.000 to food, to childhood toys, sun toime motion baby products. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.680 All of these smells build your all factor memory, which 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.160 houses all of your emotions as well, so they become 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.640 all linked together to create your idea of the world 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.920 for the rest of your life. And that's what we 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:23.880 tap into when we create a smell for a large 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.640 group of people. And so everyone that smells the strength 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.160 of Nike, for instance, not only they know it's Nike now, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.400 but everyone that has to reprove it was like, oh, yeah, 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:33.240 this is always small. 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:33.880 Wow. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.960 I heard you say in a in a Ted talk 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.520 that babies in utero can smell the food their mothers eat. 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:43.640 Isn't that amazing? 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:44.360 And is that so? 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.040 I guess that's part of that building of preferences and 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:48.880 emotional and responsible. 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.080 Well, if your mother eats a lot of onions, then 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:52.960 you tend not to like onions when you get. 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.920 Out, really, but yeah, when you get out, what's the 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.120 most unique? Like I'm looking at financial service USUS Internet 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:05.080 screaming services, you know, on and on and on. Are 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:06.959 there anything you go? Yeah, that's an insurance guy. Can't 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.480 do an insurance company because that doesn't that doesn't evoke 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:10.840 a smell for me, or do you go? Of course 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.360 I can tax it's the smell of a car wreck. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:21.080 You know, there's there's threatening So is there anything that's 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.000 that flamoxes you where you go? I can't do that? 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.920 And insurance? Can you do insurance? 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.840 Sure? I mean there is smells around us at all times. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.880 There is never a situation you're in where there is 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.160 not a smell. Now, there may be situations where you 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.160 can close your eyes and not see anything. You can 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.200 close your ears and pretend like there are background noises. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.320 You know, you cannot touch anything, so you don't have 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.400 any sensation on your skin or putting anything in your 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.840 mouth to have flavor. But you can never turn off 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.000 your nose, not even when you're sleeping. So everything has 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.520 a smell. Whether we want to give it a smell 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.000 or not is another story. 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.920 But yeah, sure, So what was the most unusual scent 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.520 you were ever asked? The bespoke scent where somebody came 0:14:58.560 --> 0:14:59.680 to you and said, you do this. 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.280 What do I want to mention? I've been asked to 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.440 do all sorts of interesting projects. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:11.720 Come on, John, give it up. 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.640 I want to mention on film. I've been asked to 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:21.760 recreate the smell of people, various different parts of people, 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.160 different body fluids. I've been asked to recreate the smell 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:30.400 of someone's nightmare. I've been asked to recreate the smell 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.400 of a horse's mouth, a puppy, puppy's breath. 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.880 You've done signature perfume sense for celebrities? 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:38.160 Yeah? 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.200 Yes, is that a What is the process of that? 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.359 You've done signature perfume sense for celebrities? 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:57.640 Yeah? 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.760 Yeah, is that a What is the process of that? 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.200 Do they talk about their lifestyle, that they talk about 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.280 their dreams? How do you start to cobble together something 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:11.480 that becomes someone's signature scent? 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.640 Well, so, when you work with a person, it's not 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.320 so dissimilar to work with a brand. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.720 It's just people are a little bit more. 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.880 Complex because they're not manufactured as such to communicate as easily. 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.040 And so when you're sitting down with a. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:30.000 Celebrity and you ask them, you know, you have to 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.600 get to the essence of who they are and depending 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.000 on what they do for work. Sometimes that's a way 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.600 in So when I worked with Lady Gaga, you know, 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.920 I asked for about our music. I said, what does 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.920 your music look like? What's the color, what's the shape, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.240 what's the temperature? How does it flow? If I had 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.360 to draw your music, what would it look like? What 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.600 is the emotion? How do you want people to feel? 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.960 What does it mean to you when you're creating your music? 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:55.920 You know, So you go into this. It's really a 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.960 psychological process to really understand the essence of them so 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.200 you can translate into a smell And. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.760 Did she okay? So when you did that for her, 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.800 is she immediately your first your first result that you 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:11.879 gave her to sample? Did she go? You got it? 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:12.399 I get it? 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:13.400 Yeah. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.320 I was still in house at Cody at the time, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.920 and they had me work on a variety of directions 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:19.960 before I met her. So I brought a bunch of 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.199 directions and she wasn't into any of them, and so 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.560 I asked her this process. I started asking all these 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.320 deep questions about herself. And then I left for a 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.520 month and I came back with two directions and she 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.040 couldn't decide which one she liked more. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:33.639 Wow, She's like, oh my god, is that am I? 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:33.960 This one? 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.200 This one, this one? And she was obsessed with both 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:36.480 of them. 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.359 It's just it's her translated into a smell without giving 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:41.440 you like the whole process. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:42.360 Sure, yeah, yeah. 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.320 Do people come to you and say, we want to 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.240 increase productivity, What sent can you pipe into this building 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.400 through the h vract to make people more productive? 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:50.800 They do. 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.639 Yes, you know, there's a line where it can be 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.080 a little bit manipulative, and I try not to cross that, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.240 but it really, really really want your employees to be 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:00.920 more productive. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.040 Maybe you should incentivize them more, but. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.520 It really it is. But you're saying, there is that 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.439 potential someone could do that? 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:09.680