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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Now, what I'm asking

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Speaker 1: for is a piece of ice, cold and poorly located

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Speaker 1: that can play a vital role in world peace and

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Speaker 1: world protection.

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Speaker 2: Today, at the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum

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Speaker 2: in Davos, Switzerland, Preston Trump laid out his most detailed

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Speaker 2: case yet for why the United States should take over Greenland.

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Speaker 2: Trump said the US needs it for national security reasons,

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Speaker 2: and the US is owed it because of how much

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Speaker 2: the country has given its allies.

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Speaker 1: It's a very small ask compared to what we have

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Speaker 1: given them for many, many decades.

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Speaker 2: In the run up to the president speech, the leaders

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Speaker 2: of Canada, France, and the United Kingdom responded to what

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Speaker 2: Trump has said and posted about Greenland, including threats to

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Speaker 2: tear iff European trading partners over the issue, and signaled

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Speaker 2: it could lead to the end of a global order

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Speaker 2: that's been in place since World War Two.

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Speaker 3: The rules based order is fading. That the strong can

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Speaker 3: do what they can and the week must suffer what

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Speaker 3: they must.

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Speaker 1: When we look at the situation, it's it's clearly a

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Speaker 1: very concerning time.

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Speaker 4: The use of tariffs against allies is completely wrong.

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Speaker 2: It is not the right way.

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Speaker 4: To resolve differences within an alia.

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Speaker 2: So by the time Trump took the podium.

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Speaker 1: So many friends, few enemies.

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Speaker 2: Many of the prime ministers and presidents and senior executives

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Speaker 2: in the audience were on edge.

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Speaker 4: He really turned the volume up, amped up the pressure

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Speaker 4: by just you know, leaving everyone guessing, you know, is

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Speaker 4: he going to invade Greenland? What is he going to do?

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Speaker 2: That's Flavia Kraus Jackson, who oversees our economic and political

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Speaker 2: coverage in Europe. She watched the speech in Davos.

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Speaker 4: He made two big items of news. One he said,

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to invade.

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Speaker 1: We never asked for anything, and we never got anything.

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Speaker 1: We probably won't get anything unless I decide to use

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Speaker 1: excessive strength and force, where we would be frankly unstoppable.

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Speaker 1: But I won't do that.

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Speaker 4: And then he said, but I'm going to put an

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Speaker 4: offer on the.

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Speaker 2: Table, so they have a choice.

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Speaker 1: You can say yes and we will be very appreciative,

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Speaker 1: or you can say no and we will remember.

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Speaker 4: The offer that he put on the table was almost like,

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Speaker 4: I offer not to invade you, so you sell me

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Speaker 4: the island. I'll make an offer you can't refuse. It's

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Speaker 4: like something out of The Godfather.

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Speaker 2: As world leaders and the rest of US processed what

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Speaker 2: Trump said, the president began a series of meetings. After

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Speaker 2: he sat down with NATO Secretary General Mark Route, Trump

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Speaker 2: posted an update on social media. The president said he

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Speaker 2: decided not to impose the new tariffs he'd threatened on

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Speaker 2: European allies, and to head quote, formed the framework of

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Speaker 2: a future deal with respect to Greenland and in fact,

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Speaker 2: the entire Arctic region. I'm David Gerrett, and this is

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Speaker 2: the big take from Bloomberg News Today. On the show,

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Speaker 2: President Trump's collision with long standing US allies over Greenland

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Speaker 2: and how Canada and Europe will respond. By the time

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Speaker 2: President Trump arrived in Davos, he'd upended the agenda at

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Speaker 2: the World Economic Forum's annual meeting. His speech became the

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Speaker 2: marquee event, but many other world leaders decided to skip it.

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Speaker 2: In an address that was about an hour long, the

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Speaker 2: President made his case for the US taking over Greenland

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Speaker 2: over and over again. I asked Bloomberg's Flavia kraus Jackson

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Speaker 2: what we learned about how he plans to proceed. What

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Speaker 2: did we hear from President Trump in terms of what

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Speaker 2: his motivations are for doing this, the rationality he sees

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Speaker 2: it for the US taking or requiring this large island.

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Speaker 4: Right, I mean, Trump has rattled off a series of

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Speaker 4: reasons of why he feels Venam should belong to the US.

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Speaker 4: He usually uses this argument of rare earths, which is

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Speaker 4: very vague and generic, and it's a sort of catch

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Speaker 4: all for many things in his understanding of the world.

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Speaker 1: But there's so much rare earth then this. To get

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Speaker 1: to this rare earth, you got to go through hundreds

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Speaker 1: of feet of ice. That's not the reason we need it.

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Speaker 1: We need it for strategic national security.

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Speaker 4: Then there is a national security aspect which is very

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Speaker 4: much the sort of the great game of you know,

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Speaker 4: the big powers that be spheares of influence, which is

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Speaker 4: very much how Trump sees the world. Right, western hemisphere

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Speaker 4: is mine, So Canada, fifty first state, greenland, massive slab

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Speaker 4: of ice, as he calls it, huge island, belongs to me.

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Speaker 4: Venezuela in the back.

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Speaker 2: What we want from Denmark.

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Speaker 1: For national and international security and to keep our very

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Speaker 1: energetic and dangerous potential enemies at bay is this land

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Speaker 1: on which we're going to build the greatest Golden dome

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Speaker 1: ever built.

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Speaker 4: So if you put it in terms of you know

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Speaker 4: what he calls the donro doc Oran whishes us of

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Speaker 4: homage to Monroe, it's much easier to understand where all

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Speaker 4: of this fits in.

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Speaker 2: Something else that's helpful, Flavia suggests, is to think about

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Speaker 2: President Trump's background.

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Speaker 4: He's a real estate guy, and it seeps into his language.

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Speaker 4: I mean, because they're saying, well, you already have a

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Speaker 4: base here. If you want to send more people, you can,

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Speaker 4: And he was like, yeah, but I want to own.

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Speaker 1: It because you need the ownership to defend it. You

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Speaker 1: can't defend it or a lease. Number one, legally, it's

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Speaker 1: not defensible that way totally. And number two psychologically, who

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Speaker 1: the hell wants to defend a license agreement or at least.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's also worth remembering, Look, he held

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Speaker 4: the summit with Putin in Alaska. You know, Alaska was

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Speaker 4: sold by the Russians to the Americans. He's like, great,

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Speaker 4: this is done before, why can't we do it again? Oh?

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Speaker 4: You know he probably read, you know, read somewhere that

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Speaker 4: you know, the US had a crack at buying a

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Speaker 4: green land back then. He's like, well, they didn't close

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Speaker 4: the deal, but I can, so I think through that

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Speaker 4: lens you start to understand, you know, and he says

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Speaker 4: he loves maps. You look at the map. It's massive,

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Speaker 4: but he's also very dismissive of it, and he doesn't

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Speaker 4: understand why they won't give it to him. He's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: it's just a slab of ice, uninhabited, right. So I

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Speaker 4: think to hear the stream of consciousness on stage was

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Speaker 4: probably the clearest sense of like where he's coming at.

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Speaker 2: What did we learn in that speech about how far

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Speaker 2: he's willing to go to acquire this territory.

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Speaker 4: I think he's willing to go pretty damn far. And

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Speaker 4: I think it's also I mean, one thing that you

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Speaker 4: also noticed about Trump's approach is that no deal is

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Speaker 4: that can't be broken, ripped up, renegotiated. So just because

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Speaker 4: he said today I won't invade doesn't mean that in

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Speaker 4: two weeks time he decides. You know what I've reconsidered.

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Speaker 2: I felt like the US and NATO were in this

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Speaker 2: new good place, that President Trump had wielded his influence

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Speaker 2: to get member states to pay more money to the alliance,

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Speaker 2: and yet the rhetoric toward NATO in the President's comments

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Speaker 2: dispelled that sense. He was highly critical of NATO alliance.

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Speaker 1: The United States is treated very unfairly by NATO, I

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Speaker 1: want to tell you that, and when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: nobody can dispute it. We give so much and we

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Speaker 1: get so little in return.

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Speaker 2: And just to dovetail, these two things made it almost

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Speaker 2: seem as though NATO owes him Greenland because of what

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Speaker 2: the US has done over these last many decades, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think there was a great deal of

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Speaker 4: revisionism of history, which is something, for example, that Trump

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Speaker 4: had in common with Putin also has his own alternative

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Speaker 4: view of the history of Ukraine. What I would say

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Speaker 4: is that NATO is on its knees, and I would

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Speaker 4: say that you're probably looking at a world where Mark

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Speaker 4: Rotin might well be the last Secretary General of NATO.

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Speaker 4: Because the whole way was conceived is in a world

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Speaker 4: where the US is largess and generosity and policemen of

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Speaker 4: the world and looking out for it's all. It underpins

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Speaker 4: the entire way that Europe came to see itself after

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Speaker 4: the end of World War Two. And it wasn't based

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Speaker 4: on transactionalism, based on the Marshall Plan, and it was

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Speaker 4: based on. Yes, the US wants to have a physical

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Speaker 4: presence of troops in Germany, and we will allow this

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Speaker 4: to happen because it's a deterrent. Once you start questioning, well,

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Speaker 4: why do I have soldiers there? And you must pay

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Speaker 4: me to have this presence, you're essentially turning the whole

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Speaker 4: argument on its head.

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Speaker 2: Flavy, there was a sell off in the run up

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Speaker 2: to this speech, but market seems there, I say, pretty

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Speaker 2: complacent as President Trump spoke. How do you interpret the

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Speaker 2: way investors are looking at, Yes, the President's comments, but

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Speaker 2: more broadly the position he's taken on Greenland and on

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Speaker 2: these multilateral alliances.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, I think there's a really interesting piece

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Speaker 4: that we wrote about the taco trade that you know,

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Speaker 4: it's all good and well to sort of trade off

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Speaker 4: the fact that you know, how seriously can you take

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Speaker 4: Trump and you know, will you always take you to

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Speaker 4: the brank and then walk back? But then at that

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Speaker 4: point you no longer have those natural defenses that help

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Speaker 4: keep a leader in check. And I think at this

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Speaker 4: particular moment in time, the fact that sort of the

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Speaker 4: markets are playing along and not sort of responding to

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Speaker 4: this great volatility and the stakes are getting higher, but

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Speaker 4: the bar to actually move markets gets higher turns the

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Speaker 4: world into a much more dangerous place, right because in

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Speaker 4: the first iteration of the Trump presidency, the entourage was

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Speaker 4: essentially trying to sort of keep him in check. That's gone,

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Speaker 4: but now no longer. You know, the markets are doing that,

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Speaker 4: and you know, even speaking to investors here in CEOs

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Speaker 4: and big people from Wall Street, there's a sense of like, well,

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Speaker 4: how do you manage Trump? Because you don't want to

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Speaker 4: anger him. We're also making money, but some of the

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Speaker 4: stuff that's happening is not okay.

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Speaker 2: After the break, how the rest of the West reacted

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Speaker 2: to President Trump's speech at Davos and how his designs

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Speaker 2: on Greenland could reshape the world order. That's next. Ahead

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Speaker 2: of the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in Davos,

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Flavia Chrass Jackson says many world leaders were weighing

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Speaker 2: the limits and risks of trying to make nice with

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Speaker 2: the US president.

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Speaker 4: I think it's important to remember that when the Europeans

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Speaker 4: were thinking about how to handle how to manage Trump,

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Speaker 4: they were really looking at Trump one point zero and thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 4: flatter him, you know, don't speak out a term, throw

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Speaker 4: him a couple of jolleys, invite him to meet the king,

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Speaker 4: fluff up the pillows at the Royal Palace. And it's

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Speaker 4: become very clear that the Trump in this situation is

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Speaker 4: completely different and they have come to realize that that

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Speaker 4: just doesn't work because Trump only respects strong, not weak,

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Speaker 4: and Europe has very much been put in the latter category.

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Speaker 4: So what you've seen in the sort of here and dabbles,

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Speaker 4: but in the sort of run up is very much

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Speaker 4: just sort of soul searching of like are we in

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Speaker 4: the area of appeasement? You know, we've seen where this

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Speaker 4: has gone with Nevill Chamberlain in the thirties. You know,

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Speaker 4: no one is obviously comparing Trump to Hitler, but you know,

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Speaker 4: the sort of the hysteric parallels are sort of really

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Speaker 4: re emerging and being reimagined and thinking, well, when was

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Speaker 4: the last time that we sort of gave in thinking

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Speaker 4: that this would work.

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Speaker 2: On retaliation? How much unanimity is there among European leaders

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Speaker 2: in terms of how they might respond to what we've

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Speaker 2: heard from the president.

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Speaker 4: There isn't and I think that's the great tragedy of

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Speaker 4: the European Union. And also what sort of makes it great, right,

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Speaker 4: I mean, it is twenty seven countries. They don't always agree,

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Speaker 4: and trying to come to an agreement, reach a consensus

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Speaker 4: when there's such a divergence of views makes it very complicated.

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Speaker 4: So you've got, for example, you know, the spoiler in

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Speaker 4: the midst You've got someone like Victor Auburn. And then

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Speaker 4: on the other side of the spectrum, you have, you know,

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Speaker 4: someone like Emmanuel Macron, who was you know, belittled and

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Speaker 4: berated in Trump's speech as an example of someone who

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Speaker 4: you know says one thing in public, by in private

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Speaker 4: kind of acquss who will say, listen, it's time for

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Speaker 4: us to use all the tools that we have to

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Speaker 4: fight back. And I think what we're sort of seeing

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Speaker 4: is you Europe willing and able to stop trying to

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Speaker 4: thread the needle and do something definitive. And really, because

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Speaker 4: Europe has kind of flip flowed between acquiescing and then

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Speaker 4: trying to do something strong, it's risks actually doing neither.

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Speaker 2: Peer into that toolbox if you would, and we've seen, yes,

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Speaker 2: these European nations send military personnel to Greenland. We've heard

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Speaker 2: talk of this anti coercion mechanism We've seen a Danish

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Speaker 2: pension fund offload a bunch of US treasuries. What's in

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Speaker 2: that toolbox? What could Europe use to respond here?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean this magic coercion instrument is essentially something

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Speaker 4: that's never been used before, and you know it's been

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Speaker 4: it's been dubbed the trade bazooka. But it would allow

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Speaker 4: for the curving of inputs of good and services, and

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Speaker 4: it's unclear how it would work and whether it would

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Speaker 4: even potentially be detrimental for Europe to do it. So

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Speaker 4: part of the sort of will Europe use it? Like,

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Speaker 4: is it just using it as a bluff tactic? And

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Speaker 4: at what point is Trump going to call the bluff,

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Speaker 4: which he has essentially done.

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Speaker 2: Canada's Prime Minister Mark Karney gave a big speech at

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Speaker 2: Davos that's gotten a lot of play, effectively calling the

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Speaker 2: end of the world order that's been in place for

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Speaker 2: eighty years.

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Speaker 3: Let me be direct, we are in the midst of

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Speaker 3: a rupture, not a transition. Over the past two decades,

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Speaker 3: a series of crises in finance, health, energy, and geopolitics

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Speaker 3: have laid bare the risks of extreme global integration.

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Speaker 2: Give us the alternative worldview here as articulated by Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister Karney, but I think embraced by a lot of

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Speaker 2: these European leaders as well. What is their sense of

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Speaker 2: this new kind of world order that's come out of

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Speaker 2: this this really deep disagreement they're having with the United States.

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Speaker 4: Well, what he's speaking to really is a dilemma that

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Speaker 4: many of these so called middle countries have, which is

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Speaker 4: they can't really strike alone, so what do they do?

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Speaker 4: And they rely on a sort of architecture of corporation,

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Speaker 4: And what that involves is essentially a kind of decoupling.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that in response you erect barriers, rather

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Speaker 4: that you sort of start developing the relationships amongst yourselves.

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Speaker 4: And so what that sort of essentially means is a

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Speaker 4: more gradual distancing from what once once an ironclad relationship

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Speaker 4: but now has become an unreliable partner. So it doesn't

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Speaker 4: mean that from one day to the other you suddenly

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Speaker 4: like cut yourself off. But I think, and there's a

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Speaker 4: very good quote that he puts, which was middle powers

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Speaker 4: must act together because if you're not at the table,

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Speaker 4: you're on the menu.

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Speaker 3: The middle powers must act together because if we're not

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Speaker 3: at the table, we're on the menu. But I'd also

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Speaker 3: say that great powers, great powers can afford for now

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Speaker 3: to go it alone. They have the market size, the

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Speaker 3: military capacity, and the leverage to dictate terms. Little powers

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Speaker 3: do not so very much.

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Speaker 4: The idea there is and why think what Karnie is

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Speaker 4: saying is, you know, that is the equivalent, for example,

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Speaker 4: of putting the wall even higher, erecting the barriers, and

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Speaker 4: that's a lose lose situation for middle countries because they're

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Speaker 4: not going to be able to survive short term.

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Speaker 2: I asked Lava to contrast that with President Trump's vision.

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Speaker 4: Compared to sort of former administration, those idea of you know,

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Speaker 4: democracy and we want to you know, take away the

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Speaker 4: bad guys and bring the good guys. That's not how

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Speaker 4: Trump sees the world. In fact, it's extremely interesting to

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Speaker 4: see that even when he removed Maduda, who I think

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Speaker 4: few people would argue was not a particularly pleasant person,

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Speaker 4: certainly around the country to the ground, he didn't install

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Speaker 4: the leader of the opposition, which is what a natural

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Speaker 4: step that one would have thought. No, he was perfectly

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Speaker 4: willing to work with one of Maduda's people, who is

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Speaker 4: very much part of the old regime. Because what we're

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Speaker 4: seeing in the Trump world is vassal states, right, puppet states.

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Speaker 4: So I think what we're starting to see, certainly from

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Speaker 4: jan third, is where his aspirations, where his leadership is

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Speaker 4: going to tell is going to take him. And I

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Speaker 4: think that's what's been truly terrifying for the Europeans, because

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Speaker 4: Greenland would not be hard to take, and then it

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Speaker 4: just becomes a question of like who would he install Flavio.

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Speaker 2: Lastly, the theme of this year's gathering in Davos is

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Speaker 2: a spirit of dialogue. How do you see this play out?

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Speaker 2: How do you see the conversation evolving? From what we've

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Speaker 2: seen over the course of this week in Davos.

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Speaker 4: We're not really seeing a dialogue. What right, we're seeing trade,

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Speaker 4: the trading of Bob's insults, its escalation. Then I think

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Speaker 4: to the extent that we're going to see more of that,

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Speaker 4: I think that's something that we just have to assume

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Speaker 4: will happen. But now the question is having thrown down

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Speaker 4: the Goldenland on Greenland out for other spaces, right, because

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Speaker 4: Trump might fall back a little bit from Greenland, but

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Speaker 4: don't forget that there's also Iran just around the corner

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Speaker 4: and He's also said that his lots of options are

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Speaker 4: being considered there. And in all this, don't forget that

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Speaker 4: there's a rather sizeable Chinese delegation here, and whilst everyone's

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Speaker 4: eyes and ears have been elsewhere, they have been quietly

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Speaker 4: meeting everyone and having probably some very interesting conversations. I'd

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Speaker 4: be keeping a very close eye on what China does next.

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Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura.

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