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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Danny and Samantha and welcome to Stephane

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Speaker 1: Never told your production of I Heart Radio. And it's

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Speaker 1: time for another book club. Before we get into this one,

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Speaker 1: content warning for addiction issues, political trauma and violence, immigration trauma, sexism,

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Speaker 1: and racism. We're not going to get too deep into

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Speaker 1: any of that stuff, but totally here you if you're

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Speaker 1: like I can't deal with that today for whatever reason, right,

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Speaker 1: And this is a great book and if you have

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Speaker 1: that depth to be able to wade pass through that

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Speaker 1: and this is a recommended on one. Yeah, oh I

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Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah. Today we're talking about Gabriella Garcia's Book

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Speaker 1: of Women and Salt, a novel that covers five generations

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Speaker 1: of mothers and daughters from Cuba to Miami other places.

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Speaker 1: And there's ruggles around things like politics and immigration and

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Speaker 1: addiction and the clicklical nature of trauma, which I think

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Speaker 1: is a story we've been seeing a lot lately. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a trend. That's a huge trend. I feel. I

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Speaker 1: feel like we talked about mothers before, but all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, the mother daughter aspect has come through pretty

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Speaker 1: the grandmother in as well. Like it's usually three generations, yeah,

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Speaker 1: talking and coming up. So yes, yes, yes, look out

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Speaker 1: for that. But this book is absolutely beautiful and heartbreaking

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Speaker 1: and presents so many scenarios where these external forces are

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Speaker 1: working against the characters. Like I feel like it's great

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Speaker 1: in the sense that it's tragic and you can see

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Speaker 1: where character wants to do more, but because of all

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Speaker 1: these other things that they can't control, they can't and

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Speaker 1: that hurts someone else in their orbit. But like these

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Speaker 1: legitimately didn't have the option right to help them. There's

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Speaker 1: a similar parallel between all of them about how they

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Speaker 1: try so desperately to connect with their child but inevitably

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Speaker 1: pushed them away. And it's like a generational thing once again,

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Speaker 1: as you said, it is, it's a very interesting, heartbreaking

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Speaker 1: but beautiful book. Yeah. Yeah, and uh it's pretty recent

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Speaker 1: and Garcia, you can find some really good interviews with

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Speaker 1: her about it or she talks about kind of her

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Speaker 1: own experience and why she wrote it. And I think

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Speaker 1: it was she was really well spoken about what she

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Speaker 1: was trying to accomplish, and I think she did accomplish it.

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Speaker 1: So random fact, so apparently she took a class with

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Speaker 1: Roxanne Gay and after she published this book, If you

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Speaker 1: listen to the audio version, there is a snippet of

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Speaker 1: their interview. Roxanne Gay interview Gabriella about the book. It

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Speaker 1: was nice. It was a nice little exchange. I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I know Roxanne Gay reviewed the book,

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Speaker 1: So that's a that's always cool. And So in this book,

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Speaker 1: you've got Maria Isabelle, who became the first woman to

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Speaker 1: roll cigars and later the first woman to read in

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Speaker 1: this community UM in Cuba in eighteen sixty six. You've

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Speaker 1: got Jeannette, who witnessed an ice raid next door to

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Speaker 1: her home in Miami in and offers food and shelter

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Speaker 1: to a young girl named Anna who got left behind

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Speaker 1: after her mother, Glory, was detained in this ice raid

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Speaker 1: and sent to an immigration center in Texas. We later

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Speaker 1: get chapters from Anna and Glorious point of view. You

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Speaker 1: also briefly hear from Jeanette's mother, Carmen. Yes, and there

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Speaker 1: there are other women involved, UM and it kind of

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Speaker 1: reminds me I feel like this was a it's pretty

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Speaker 1: simple key track of the threads, even though they're not

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Speaker 1: told in a strictly chronological manner, there is sort of

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Speaker 1: an overarching chronologically but not strictly. Yeah, and it this

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Speaker 1: was originally short stories, so not all of them. There

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Speaker 1: was a I think she had written a couple of

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Speaker 1: chapters as short stories and then autom together. And I

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Speaker 1: know there was some of the like reviews, people were

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Speaker 1: very not upset, but really so confused. I just felt

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Speaker 1: like it was too much, and also that they're like

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Speaker 1: I didn't like I don't like short stories, so for

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Speaker 1: her to write it like this makes me feel to

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Speaker 1: see that they call it a novel, which is still

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Speaker 1: a novel. Yeah, bt dubs. It kind of reminds me

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Speaker 1: of Fainian Zoe was a Sallenger book and that's how

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Speaker 1: it kind of originated as well. But I love this.

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Speaker 1: I love the style anyway. But yes, it does jump

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Speaker 1: around so much like any and I have had to

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Speaker 1: be like, wait, so this doesn't this But it's also

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Speaker 1: one of those books when you come to the end

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Speaker 1: you realize what happened and I feel like you need

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Speaker 1: to go back. Yes, yes, And in the front of

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Speaker 1: the book she has a like family tree situation. Uh

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Speaker 1: so you can kind of keep track that way because

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Speaker 1: it reminded me of when you read Joey Luck Club

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Speaker 1: and I kept getting the names. Wait, who is this

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Speaker 1: and how are they related to this person? And how

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Speaker 1: they related this person? Um I feel like this overall

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Speaker 1: was simpler just because there are a lot of their

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Speaker 1: stories were while they were very similar, threads were very different.

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Speaker 1: So I could be like, Okay, this is Maria Isabelle

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Speaker 1: who's rolling cigars in eighteen sixty six, right, Like that's

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Speaker 1: very different than Jeanette and Miami. But still yeah, then

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Speaker 1: I had to have a little we may between this. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so there are a lot of things we wanted to

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Speaker 1: touch on this one. One of the ones that I

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Speaker 1: feel jumped out immediately to me was this sort of

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Speaker 1: idea of having secrets of these hidden selves and also

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Speaker 1: along those lines of addiction and not talking about that

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Speaker 1: or trying to hide that. Um So in the first chapter,

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Speaker 1: I believe, here's this quote, sun child, hair permanently whis

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Speaker 1: by the wind. You were happy once I see it

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Speaker 1: looking over these photos, such smiles. How was I to

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Speaker 1: know you held such a secret. All I knew was

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Speaker 1: that you smiled for a time and then you didn't listen.

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Speaker 1: I have secrets too, And if you'd stop killing yourself,

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Speaker 1: if you get sober, maybe you could sit down, maybe

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Speaker 1: I could tell you. Maybe you understand why I made

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Speaker 1: certain decisions, like fighting to keep our family together. Maybe

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Speaker 1: there are forces neither of us examined. Maybe if I

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Speaker 1: had a way of seeing all the past, all the past,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'd have some answer as to why why did

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Speaker 1: our lives turn out this way? And I love that

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Speaker 1: quote because it's in the very beginning, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's a good kind of thesis statement for what the

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Speaker 1: book is about, because it's the book examines these paths

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Speaker 1: and this past um and how everyone ended up where

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Speaker 1: where they ended up, and all the external forces and

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Speaker 1: the trauma that led to that point. And I think

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Speaker 1: this whole idea of I don't know, I've been thinking

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Speaker 1: about this too. You have this idea of what a

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Speaker 1: person is and how they feel. And UM like my

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Speaker 1: mom for it, since she keeps these baby books and

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Speaker 1: they're very detailed and they're very sweet, but it's kind

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Speaker 1: of strange to know, like how our lives turned out

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Speaker 1: and not that you know, anything super tragic has happened,

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Speaker 1: but you know, based on this baby book that I

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Speaker 1: think she's looking at, and then the trajectory right of

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Speaker 1: our lives. Yeah, And I think about the secrets, which

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Speaker 1: is again is a theme throughout the book. It's like

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Speaker 1: them sharing or trying to protect their families by these

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Speaker 1: small secrets. And I think about that because, uh, as

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Speaker 1: I was with someone else's family, we were all hanging

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Speaker 1: out and I was getting to know them about their

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Speaker 1: childhood or about their past and the children who are

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Speaker 1: their children. When they were listening to this, they're like,

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Speaker 1: I never need this about you what and trying to

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Speaker 1: get more information. But as an outside of course, I

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Speaker 1: would ask these questions because it would go deeper in

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Speaker 1: and because as the child, you don't think beyond what

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Speaker 1: you already know of them, and you don't really like

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Speaker 1: you hear small stories sure about their past, but you

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Speaker 1: really don't get the in depth look of who they

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Speaker 1: were at that point in time, where they traveled, what

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Speaker 1: they've done, what they were ran from, what they were

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Speaker 1: scared of. Like all of these conversations were like, wow, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I knew you had life. I never thought to go

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Speaker 1: beyond just what I know from what you told me.

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Speaker 1: You know that there's so many things to asking the

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Speaker 1: deeper questions, and I'm sure like there's definitely families who

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Speaker 1: do that, but typically as the children who are caught

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Speaker 1: up in their own issues, and we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of them. The children that is that come up and

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Speaker 1: open to these new secrets or new discoveries, it's a

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Speaker 1: whole different thing. It becomes a whole different conversation. I

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Speaker 1: always found that fascinating about when you really start to

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Speaker 1: discover and then you have that moment of clicking up

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Speaker 1: like wow, that was you. You did that you Wow?

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, Like that's kind of that level. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I I think that given again what you and

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Speaker 1: I mentioned, like movies like in Concho and Turning Red,

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Speaker 1: there's this whole idea of the younger person not realizing

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Speaker 1: that the older person in this you know, like mother,

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Speaker 1: grandmother daughter situation. Yeah, I struggled and had a life

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Speaker 1: and his day with trauma as well, and maybe you

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Speaker 1: don't know what happened in their life. And I remember

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Speaker 1: when I was in college, I found out that my

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Speaker 1: dad had a previous wife and had gotten divorced, and

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Speaker 1: it was really painful, and I was like, how did

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Speaker 1: I not know? Like I have an adult and I

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Speaker 1: never heard the story. What wouldn't it just happened? Right?

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Speaker 1: My mom was like, oh yeah, I thought you knew

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Speaker 1: what I would remember talking about this, right, Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: kinds of secrets we keep in families to keep the

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Speaker 1: family together or yeah, functioning. And then you realize, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was the only one keeping secrets. They're

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Speaker 1: keeping secrets too, and everybody in the family is kind

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Speaker 1: of doing it right, MS. Interesting, it is interesting. Here's

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Speaker 1: another quote, and this is from So. That first quote

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Speaker 1: was from Carmen, Jeanette's mother. This is from Jeanette. The

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Speaker 1: man at the door slides his thumbnail over the tap

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Speaker 1: of his beer. He looks at the nail. She can

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Speaker 1: taste the beer, a memory on the tongue. Why is

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Speaker 1: it that men can be hard drinkers, suave and smooth,

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Speaker 1: leather and whiskey her father. A woman who can't stop

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Speaker 1: is simply a mess, irresponsible. So Jeanette struggles with addiction

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Speaker 1: and sobriety. So I just thought that was really interesting

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Speaker 1: because I do think I think this is changing, but

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Speaker 1: for a long time that has been the case in

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Speaker 1: our media of like, oh, he's a real man. He's

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Speaker 1: drinking his bourbon in the dark, like in the gym light,

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Speaker 1: and he's doing it at work, or he's doing it

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Speaker 1: late after work and ignoring his family or whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: and that's like how men are, and that's acceptable. They're

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Speaker 1: just down in their luck type of thing, or that's

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Speaker 1: coming from a hard work, like all of these conversations

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Speaker 1: that really make them look like that they deserve or

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Speaker 1: of course they would be at this point in time

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Speaker 1: instead of being neglectful. Right, Oh yeah, right. I've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about, kind of along the lines of our Strategic

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Speaker 1: Incompetence episode, about how we also kind of glorify self destruction,

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Speaker 1: especially in men. Women you're like falling apart, get your

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Speaker 1: life together, but in men, it's like, oh, what trauma

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Speaker 1: has put you here? What they might put you here?

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a really harmful I think it's

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Speaker 1: harmful in a lot of ways. Um, but I do

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Speaker 1: think that's something that we've done, Like if you think

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Speaker 1: of it something like Mad Men, where they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: these men are messed up, but they're like drinking their

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Speaker 1: bourbon and it's a great character point and it's so

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Speaker 1: interesting and I'm like, right right in the office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know we should be celebrating. I think it's

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Speaker 1: meant to show a flaw, not sexy let's not say

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Speaker 1: that's a sexy Let's not ignore that it happens, but

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Speaker 1: let's not glorify it. Say it's a good thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's another quote. A moment ago, Jeanette had thought she'd

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Speaker 1: reached the precipice of who she wanted to be. I

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Speaker 1: thought she'd finally walk the halls of gables high like

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Speaker 1: a harder girl, like the ones with boyfriends who didn't

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Speaker 1: have to lie about sexual experience. So this is we

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Speaker 1: got a couple of quotes about this um and we're

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Speaker 1: getting to the others in a second, but I want

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Speaker 1: to include them because they feel like a lot of

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Speaker 1: people will connect with this. When you're in high school,

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Speaker 1: when you think you have to be the sexual being

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Speaker 1: slash also no, because you don't want to be seen

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Speaker 1: as a nature. People oftentimes sexualize them, whether they want

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Speaker 1: to or not, whether it's how they dress, whether it's

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Speaker 1: what they say, whether it's what they like. Yeah, again,

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Speaker 1: let's look at Turning Red if one. Now we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about it, but they are. One of the big

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Speaker 1: controversies was your sexual lie. Seeing these seenagers and all

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Speaker 1: they really thought about was having a crush on a

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Speaker 1: young boy right, a boy band. Right, Oh gosh, I

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Speaker 1: cannot wait to check about that. But I also think, like,

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Speaker 1: that's a really good point you brought up of the

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Speaker 1: we stigmatize like sex said, and any sexuality with young girls.

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Speaker 1: So as young girls, we feel like we can't ask,

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Speaker 1: but we also have to know or will be made

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Speaker 1: fun of, right, Or we have to know because we

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Speaker 1: have to understand what we're saying, and oftentimes because we're

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Speaker 1: trying to show our maturity as we were expected to be.

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Speaker 1: Make it up and then yeah, we we go into

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Speaker 1: a cycle that's dangerous. So here's one of the first quotes.

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Speaker 1: But she pictured the men following through on their promises,

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Speaker 1: shoving her into their cars too hard to that juicy.

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Speaker 1: That's what those cooler, harder girls did, wasn't it they got?

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Speaker 1: But she couldn't picture the popular boys at school, boys

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Speaker 1: like Chris and Raoul and Marcello talking to their girlfriends

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Speaker 1: like that, expressing such raw desire. She was amazed that

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Speaker 1: she could inspire such want, such need. She was baffled

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Speaker 1: that these same men who shouted at her and Sasha

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Speaker 1: did things that say her mother and father did. She

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Speaker 1: could not picture her father, her mother, She thought, these

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Speaker 1: men want me more than anyone wants my mother, more

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Speaker 1: than anyone wants the coolest girl in the school. Then

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Speaker 1: she felt good and yeah, and this is the same conversation.

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Speaker 1: Is that we really feel like our worth is based

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Speaker 1: on how sexy we are, not understanding how traumatic that is,

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Speaker 1: but because we see it so often or being we

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Speaker 1: are told that we are often you're gonna break hearts

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Speaker 1: or you're you're gonna be so pretty, you're gonna break

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Speaker 1: those boys. That's what we think are worth is based

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Speaker 1: on and understanding I am more value because someone wants

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Speaker 1: to have sex with me than this other person. Right,

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Speaker 1: And going back to her versation we had recently on

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Speaker 1: consent um, this is another thing that I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: when I say I think we're in a society we're consent,

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Speaker 1: Like true consent is almost impossible because we're raising girls

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Speaker 1: to think like this and to want to be the

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Speaker 1: hard girl that everyone wants to have sex with. And

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Speaker 1: that's dangerous, like you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when I was like in high school college,

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Speaker 1: people would cat call me and I would like smile

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Speaker 1: and feel flattered, like I'll admit it, like feel it, um.

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Speaker 1: And then one time it put me in a really

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Speaker 1: unsafe situation where this guy like push me against the walls,

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Speaker 1: are kissing me, and I didn't know what to do

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Speaker 1: because it was like I should feel good about this,

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Speaker 1: right right, don't want this, do I? And I just froze.

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Speaker 1: I totally froze. I mean, it's definitely that whole situation

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Speaker 1: of feeling like this is our worth, being told this

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Speaker 1: is a good thing, your desire, this is what you want,

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Speaker 1: this is what the TV tells you that this is

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Speaker 1: who you are. Then you get there and you're not

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Speaker 1: told how you should react when something goes the way

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Speaker 1: you don't want it. But because you think this is

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Speaker 1: your worth, you had to follow through to get that

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Speaker 1: value right right, And there's like the also the question

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Speaker 1: of safety and also yeah, if you do go through

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Speaker 1: with it, then you've got the sledge shaving right right,

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Speaker 1: and which is probably already traumatizing because the experience oftentimes

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Speaker 1: it's traumatizing if it's led by this route. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: not understanding. Yes, oh yes, um, So here's another quote.

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Speaker 1: And if we didn't specify, I think we did. But

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Speaker 1: Jeanette and at this point, it's like high school underage.

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Speaker 1: She's like fifteen fourteen. Yeah, she's young, all right, So

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Speaker 1: quote do you like it? Raw Manning had said to

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Speaker 1: her in class one day. Jeanette had no idea what

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Speaker 1: he meant, though now she knew, but she had feigned

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Speaker 1: knowledge because she liked that. Manny thought she was the

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Speaker 1: kind girl who know she liked that Manny pinched her

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Speaker 1: waist and winked when he said it. Look, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to pretend I can stop you from, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing you know, her mother had said, refusing to meet

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Speaker 1: Jeanette's eyes. I just want you to know that nobody

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Speaker 1: is going to want you for serious things, things like marriage.

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Speaker 1: If you are you know, if you've been well, if

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Speaker 1: you've been used already. Jeanette had giggled, and nobody looked

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Speaker 1: more used up than her mother. She'd never have said

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Speaker 1: it to her, but Jeanette knew her mother was just

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Speaker 1: jealous her father didn't want to use her anymore, that

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Speaker 1: nobody wanted to use her mother, that her mother was useless, right.

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Speaker 1: There so many sad things to this. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 1: though I I do ruminisus to the fact that when

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Speaker 1: Jeanette was like she didn't she wanted to be one

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Speaker 1: of the cool girls. She didn't want him to know,

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Speaker 1: so she just pretended. I was definitely thought I was

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Speaker 1: the cool girl because I was the one at one

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Speaker 1: point in time telling people about sex. And this is

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Speaker 1: like fourth fifth grade. I was the bad girl and

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Speaker 1: people thought I was so cool. One dude actually asked

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Speaker 1: me to be his girlfriend because I cursed a lot.

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Speaker 1: That was my rebellion, by the way, I didn't do

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Speaker 1: anything else, but that was it, and that was I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, yeah, I am the cool, hard girl.

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Speaker 1: Let's go. You know, there's this level of like feeling

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Speaker 1: that pride. I'm not sure if it was because you

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Speaker 1: get this attention and or you feel safe because you

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Speaker 1: do feel like you're mature so that you can tell

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Speaker 1: everybody f off. Essentially, it's very interesting. But yes, we

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Speaker 1: do see this new angle of competing with the mother,

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of like conversations and how

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Speaker 1: badly they can go awry. There's there's so many things. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I One of the reasons I wanted to include

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Speaker 1: this is because I have a very similar memory to this.

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Speaker 1: When I was in seventh grade. This guy essentially was

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Speaker 1: asking if I like blow jobs, but I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what he meant, and he made like a gesture and

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Speaker 1: I didn't get it, but I was like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it started this whole rumor about me, and I

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Speaker 1: became known as a very like sexual person and I

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Speaker 1: felt I think I leaned into that hard because I

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Speaker 1: was kind of like not interested in sex, right, and

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Speaker 1: I thought it was cool to have that. But there's

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Speaker 1: so many memories I look back on now that haunt

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Speaker 1: me to this day. And then this conversation with the

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Speaker 1: mother of like, it's it's tricky because she is saying,

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Speaker 1: essentially like you can't have sex, You're gonna be used up,

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Speaker 1: and that's implying the thing we've talked about that this

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Speaker 1: is your worth, this is your value. But also on

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Speaker 1: Jeanette's side, it's unhealthy that she thinks, oh well, it's

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Speaker 1: cool though, so they're not neither of them are having

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Speaker 1: a healthy view on this. It's not helping any right. Well, obviously,

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Speaker 1: like the mother has come in a whole different view,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about Mom Carmen, her her background

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But yeah, I mean, but this is

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Speaker 1: that whole purity level, right, that we've talked about before.

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Speaker 1: We've had that episode about virginity and purity and how

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Speaker 1: toxic it can be. And this is one of those

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Speaker 1: conversations of you really think by calling me dirty and trashy,

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Speaker 1: if I do these things that I'm gonna, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: prevent me from these things. The whole analogy of like

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Speaker 1: the you know, virgin bride being absolutely pure, and and

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Speaker 1: and and like this whole level of unused. It's just

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Speaker 1: such a gross conversation anyway, and it's completely pretending to

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Speaker 1: girls only it is oh um, And I want to

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Speaker 1: include this quote because it resonated with me so much.

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Speaker 1: She was so tired of pretending to get things. I

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Speaker 1: feel that so hard, Like that was my whole I

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Speaker 1: just felt like the whole time, I was just trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to appear normal and fit in

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Speaker 1: with everyone else, and everyone else. In my mind, it

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Speaker 1: seemed to be like having sex was cool at one

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Speaker 1: group that disagree to buy most other people, we're like, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is what you want, right right. And so this

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Speaker 1: whole thing has been based on a club scene where

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Speaker 1: Jeanette goes to this club very young, and that whole

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00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: scene I was so upset with how much I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's happened to me. Yeah, that's happened to me. And

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Speaker 1: again she's massively under age, like older men hitting on her,

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Speaker 1: and she ends up going with one of these older

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Speaker 1: men in his car to a beach. Um. Here's a

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Speaker 1: quote as Johnson undid her shorts as he tugged her

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Speaker 1: at her tank top. She wanted to yell that he

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Speaker 1: should stop, not because she wanted to, but because why

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Speaker 1: would he want to be exactly what everyone expected? Didn't

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Speaker 1: he know how exhausting it was. She couldn't find her voice,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't matter. Jeanette knew it. Then harder girls

387
00:21:54,240 --> 00:22:02,239
Speaker 1: weren't happy. Probably nobody was right, right, Yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it did begin the chapter began, if I remember correctly,

389
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: of them stumbling onto a dead body. Yes, and this

390
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: is part of the scene that we come back to

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00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: flashes back, because we do have an in between scene

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Speaker 1: as it opens. But yeah, the thing is really there's

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00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: so many again to that point of that whole scene

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Speaker 1: with her friend where they're trying to get cigarettes, pretending

395
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Speaker 1: to be over like a certain age, and then the

396
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Speaker 1: French on on like girl, no, let's go girl, what

397
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Speaker 1: are you doing? I was the person I was like, no,

398
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Speaker 1: we're leaving, Like like my survivor instinct was was too

399
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: heavy at that point. We gotta go, we gotta go.

400
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, that whole need to be cool, not sure

401
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: what was going to happen, wanting to take risks, really

402
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: not understanding what that risk is. And yeah, this dude

403
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: absolutely pretending like he didn't know her age. And then

404
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: at the end when he's like, we can't call the

405
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 1: cops because I know you're like, what fifteen? I love

406
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: those excuses she lied about her eight Yeah, oh yeah,

407
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: come on, um yeah, and it's a it's so predatory.

408
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's weird when you're in it

409
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: because I remember being that age and being again yeah,

410
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: like flattered. But looking back, I'm like, oh, that was gross.

411
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 1: That was so gross, Like he had to know I

412
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: was underaged, like sloppy, drunk or whatever. But also we

413
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: talked about when we first started working together, Samantha, we

414
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: did that Trauma mini series, and we talked about how

415
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: this kind of self destructive instincts can manifest in trauma,

416
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's sort of what's happening here,

417
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: and coupled with this really toxic messaging that you need

418
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: to be this cool girl who will have sex, who

419
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Speaker 1: was sexually desired, and it's haired because I feel like

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Speaker 1: I was also like you. I generally didn't. I kind

421
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Speaker 1: of was like, I gotta get out of here. I

422
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: don't think you should go with this guy. But I

423
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: also felt weird because they kind have made me for

424
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: like a prude. And that's not a great conversation either,

425
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 1: because I was just trying to look out for my friends.

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00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be controlling, but I wasn't right.

427
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: There's so many things. There's so many things, um and

428
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: then moving on, of course, and then we're going to

429
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: go on to the next quote in the books that

430
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: we like. Of course, Carmen hadn't known about the abuse,

431
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: so we're coming back to the mother's perspective. For God's sake,

432
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: she stayed with Julio because she thought he had a

433
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: level of love and affection for Jeannette that would dissipate

434
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: under the weight of separate homes. Because she, Carmen knew

435
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: better than anyone what it was to lose a father.

436
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: She understood what Jeannette had waited until Julio died to

437
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,479
Speaker 1: tell her why she had let Carmen more than this

438
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: man live with him all those years, sleep in a

439
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: bed beside him, this man who was now an infection

440
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: eating through her. She would have killed him, had she known,

441
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: she would have called the police. Would that have saved Jeannette?

442
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: Even she knew that was a lie? So at this

443
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: point we oh that Jeanette had been molested, and she

444
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: even mentioned that during her time in talking about the

445
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: dude that she rise in the car with. It continues

446
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: on to say, but she absolutely knew it could be.

447
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: How many nights has she woken to drunken Julio over

448
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,239
Speaker 1: her body? How many times has she fought him off

449
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: and then given in, thinking I'm married to him? Isn't

450
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: this just duty? How the violation has strangled her, How

451
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: she willed herself another life. She had thought herself a

452
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: bad wife. Yeah, and that's one of the pieces we're

453
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: talking about when you talk about like the secret selves

454
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: and hiding these things from people, because and all the trauma,

455
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: that inter generational trauma, because Carmen lost the father and

456
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: she was trying to prevent that's so hard that perhaps

457
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: she missed these signs and then Jeanette didn't want to

458
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: break up the family, didn't want to mess this up,

459
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: so she didn't tell Carmen, her mother until after Julio died.

460
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: So it's like both of them trying to protect the family, right,

461
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: and it's hurting both of them. Yeah, And I'm sure

462
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: like we both of us have talked about our own

463
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: traumas and that that way we have done that, we

464
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: continue to do that, uh to a certain extent, and

465
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: why we feel like it's important to do so. So

466
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: you know, who knows, in our later life, maybe will

467
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: be another conversation similar to the book results of them

468
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: not talking I don't know, but then thinking that at

469
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: that point in time it was for the best um

470
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: and not understand. And I will say in this book,

471
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: I really kind of really appreciated Gabrielle's way of framing

472
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: the abuse. So it was not necessarily constant molestation, it

473
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: was not necessarily rape, but it was molestation and it

474
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: was definitely a sexual abuse. But I like that she

475
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: didn't mitigate the trauma that it caused because I feel

476
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: like that's what happened so often, and so that's why

477
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: we women who have been molested but have not been

478
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: raped will say things like, but it wasn't that bad

479
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: and try to minimize it ourselves because it doesn't feel

480
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: as bad as if it had been continuously like that

481
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: type of level. But that is still that traumatic and

482
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: it still will ruins relationships, It ruins your life, It

483
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: ruins what you know of safety. And so even though

484
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: like it was to me, maybe it was safer. I

485
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: don't know the decisions, but it connected with me as

486
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: a person who's been through both of those that have

487
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 1: this being placed as a forefront of being a big issue,

488
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: even if by standards A, it's not provable, and we

489
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: know that because I've seen this in court cases too

490
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: many times as other abuses, but B it is it

491
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: is traumatic to that person and that family. So I

492
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: feel like the that narrative and the way she framed

493
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: it was really really well done, and I feel like

494
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: validated so many of the victims who have gone through

495
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: similar situations. Yeah, I agree, And I've talked about this

496
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: with my therapist because some in one session I got confused.

497
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't understand why this incident, which

498
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: is less traumatic, is upsetting me more than this other thing.

499
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: And I think there's so many factors that go into that,

500
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: like the circumstances that people involved, all that kind of stuff.

501
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: So I totally, I totally agree. Um. And that's one

502
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: of the things I wrote down about this when I

503
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: was reading this section was that whole idea we've talked

504
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: about before, they could have been worse, Like I feel

505
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: like that was going on here of sort of dismissing

506
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: things because it could have been worse and it wasn't

507
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: that bad. It could have been worse, and we know

508
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: how damaging that is. Yeah, and that we also see

509
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: through that. A lot of this book is we see

510
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: the trauma and the thought of this abuse and how

511
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: it affects other people, because I think that's a big point,

512
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: A big theme of it is she's sort of this

513
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: domino effects which traumatic event. Yeah, you know, even from

514
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: my own experience and I don't know about you again

515
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: going through something similar to this, just like vir Jinette

516
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: or her mom, And they finally have it out, and

517
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: her mom's reaction was not great. She didn't trust her

518
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: as a child, she didn't she know she was not

519
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: even though Carmen didn't know. There's still that point of

520
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: like moment of like you're the parent for the as

521
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: me as a child, thinking on the adults in my

522
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: life at that point, that you're the person who I trusted.

523
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: I didn't get that protection, so I don't trust you.

524
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: I may love you, but I'm definitely not going to

525
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: come to you, and that my traumas are not going

526
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: to be related to you because you can't handle it,

527
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: or in my head, you can't handle it, or you're

528
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: not willing to handle it, or you're not willing to

529
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: protect me from it. So all of these things like

530
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: it kind of just really delve into this is why

531
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: the trust issue happened in the first place, is that

532
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: she felt unprotected in her home, so therefore why would

533
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: she trust the people who were in that home. And

534
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: that's hugely damaging to to trust somebody to protect you,

535
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: or to even go to somebody and then they don't

536
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: believe you or they are kind of like, well, don't

537
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: walk the vote that sticks with you. M Here's another quote.

538
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: It's been only a month together in my apartment, and

539
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: I want him to stay so bad that I am

540
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: afraid no man has ever given me so much attention.

541
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: It made me feel like some kind of save here.

542
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: I am constantly calibrating who to be, what kind of

543
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: woman Mario wants, though I know that he likes me

544
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: because he thinks me the kind of woman not constantly

545
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: calibrating who to be for him. So this is Janette

546
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: about her kind of on again, off again boyfriend Mario

547
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: m who's kind of presented in that same because she

548
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: has the addiction sobriety story. He's kind of presented as

549
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 1: a bad habit she has. But I liked that because again,

550
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: it's it's sort of going back to this cool girl

551
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: idea or this hard girl idea, where we're pretending like

552
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: everything's fine and everything's easy, and I'm not constantly calibrating myself,

553
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: but you are. Actually this is like our one of

554
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: our sex in the City episodes that will come to Yes,

555
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: it is for that as well. Um, here's another quote.

556
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: Mario likes that I'm willing to try it all, that

557
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm willing to go there, that I am not a

558
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: barrier to whatever he wants. You're not like other girls,

559
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: he says, And I wind the words tight around me

560
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: a cape. The world is full of other girls, shiny haired, giggle,

561
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: glowing simultaneously pure and sex and thrilled, groups of them,

562
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: worlds of them, walking in community, writhing under club lights,

563
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: running through parks. But if he says he doesn't like

564
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: other girls, if I'm not an other girl, he will

565
00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: be mine. Not There's so many things in a small

566
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: about all of this we have, we have, but like,

567
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: there's so many contradictions in there. Again, the tight rope

568
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: we mentioned all the time. It was like, you have

569
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: to be sex and thralled but also pure, Like you

570
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: have to be all of these opposite things at the

571
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: same time. And if you happen to slip a little

572
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: bit on that tight rope, then you're you're out ostracized.

573
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: Can we talk about that you're not like other girls? Jope?

574
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: So hard? Oh so I hate Like I've had a

575
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: guy probably five years ago actually said that to me,

576
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: and I was like, you said the thing, and you

577
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: said it sincerely. I gotta get out of here next

578
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: that you're gonna be like my girlfriend was so bad. Yeah,

579
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: that's why you're gone. You're gone, You're gone, red flag done.

580
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: Uh And if you continues now it's my turn to laugh. Mom,

581
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: I say, I'm nineteen. It's a bit too late for that,

582
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: don't you think and he's not drinking because he can't,

583
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: and it is the man he was, and I don't

584
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: love him. Okay, I've decided I don't love him, and

585
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: my voice snags in my throat comes out horse and

586
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: then before I know it, I'm gulping and crying, and

587
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: she's looking at me and shaking her heads like she

588
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: doesn't understand. And I'm thinking, say it, just say it.

589
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: And then I still can't just choose me or him.

590
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: I scream at her instead, but I would always choose you.

591
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: She yells back at me, and now she looks like

592
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: she's going to cry too. Yeah. I think this the

593
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: pain of these dramatic things that you try to keep

594
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: under wraps and when you it's so scary and raw,

595
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: vulnerable to admit them. And the other person involved in

596
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: this situation, like her mom, is also dealing with these

597
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: feelings and emotions in her and it's just it's painful

598
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: and hard. Uh Yeah, there's a lot of pain in

599
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: that little in that paragraph. Something else I wanted to

600
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: talk about, or we wanted to talk about, was political trauma,

601
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: because I think that's pretty throughout this book. Here's a quote.

602
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: Uh so, this is from Maria asabel who was again

603
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: in Cuba in the eighteen sixties. UM, for Maria Isabelle,

604
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: a scorching anxiety had long replaced those lofty early notions freedom, liberty.

605
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: She hated the unknowing. She hated that her own survival

606
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: depended on a shadowy political figure she could hardly envision. So, UM,

607
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: I think that's still the case. I think, UM a

608
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: lot of us feel in a lot of ways, especially

609
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: marginalized people in every intersection area. And it gets worse

610
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: and worse, like there's things outside of our control and

611
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: they're impacting our lives and our mental health and our

612
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: physical health, like all of this stuff. And don't get

613
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: me wrong, like we can do great work by coming

614
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: together and um forming in geos or protesting or all

615
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: these activism and advocacy we can do, but it's still

616
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: like there are these forces that are right now impacting

617
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: our lives and out of our control. Right And just so,

618
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if we say this earlier. So this

619
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: is based in Cuba during the dictatorship, and she was

620
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: things were changing and when they talk about literature a lot,

621
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: I know we'll talk about this in a bit, but

622
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: and it's a very big like her becoming a part

623
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: of the rebellion, her her love is becoming part of

624
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: the rebellion and seeing change as a dictatorship and the

625
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: battles happened, and and like it's a big political stance

626
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: and a lot of trauma. So this is kind of

627
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: that setting. So we have a history and from what

628
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: I do know and I'm sure you do do. Gadriella

629
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: kind of started the book based on historical context like this,

630
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: So it was the basis, and that's where we see

631
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: the background of the descend that Maria who was the

632
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: beginning of matriarch. Yeah, yeah, and we get uh these

633
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: threads of you see, like enslavements and taxes and abolition

634
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: and how that's impacting her life. Here's another quote. Then,

635
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: as she made a turn towards the river bank where

636
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: she did the wash each Sunday and bathed in the sun,

637
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: she stumbled over what felt like a log anchored in grass.

638
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: She looked down and screamed. A man, his open eyes

639
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: to the sky and his mouth a permanent expression of disbelief,

640
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: had his neck impaled by a sword, the pointed end

641
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: emerging on the other side. Dick coagulated blood pulled around

642
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: his head, and flies swarmed the wound. Maria isabel looked

643
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 1: up past him and saw it a field of dozens

644
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: of men just like him, left rotting in the heat,

645
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: their inners and flesh unrecognizable. One giant mass of scorched

646
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: meat as a final insult, a hog chomping through the remains,

647
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: its face and teeth smeared in dark blood. She recognized

648
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: the face of a fellow tobacco roller. The grass quivered,

649
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: with Maria Isabelle, oblivious to the carnage to which it

650
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: bore witness. It began to rain, and she stood there

651
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: until a stream of red forced a jagged path to

652
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: the river. Then she ran, in her dress, torn and

653
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: muddied and soaked, calling out to her mother as when

654
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: she was a child, calling out to the giant, unheating

655
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: span before her, and it fell at the door of

656
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: their home. Her sobs heavy. That night, her mother died. Yeah,

657
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: so I think that the fact that Jeannette, as you mentioned,

658
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: witnessed that body. Um, there are these sort of connections

659
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: throughout all of these stories and all of this history,

660
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: And we always say this in like female first like

661
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: it's frustrating how often we'll read something from like there

662
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: and like, oh wow, we're still dealing with some of

663
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: this stuff. Um. And then this idea that she called

664
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: out to her mother, like in this traumatic moment where

665
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: she was panicking, she called out to her mother and

666
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: then her mother died. I think that's something else we

667
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: see throughout This is a lot of like mother daughter

668
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: relationships and the daughter like even if the relationship with

669
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: the mother was strained, like asking the mother for help

670
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: or calling out to the mother mm hmmm um. And

671
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: to that end, I want to include this quick quote

672
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: about grief. Uh. And Jeanette has wondered whether loss unspoken

673
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: becomes an inherited trait just because you know, in these

674
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: conversations with intergenerational trauma, trauma that's sort of passed down

675
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: even if you don't talk about it, it's still manifests

676
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: in other ways, right Right then, don't talk about laws

677
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: too often either, like even the different deaths they mentioned,

678
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: and bypass it and then live in the aftermath of it.

679
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: So I feel like it's very fip somewhat literal as well.

680
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: Um and continue and all. And of course we want

681
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: to talk more about the mother daughter relationships because that

682
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: is kind of the basis of this bok at the matriarch,

683
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: And I'm like, we want to come back and talk

684
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: more about this as well outside because again, like we

685
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 1: said earlier, it's a theme right now, and I've seen

686
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: this theme as a cultural theme. I don't know if

687
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: you would degree with me, like especially with the Latino community, uh,

688
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: the Asian community like that, and then like true African communities,

689
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: like we see that level of matriarch is so heavily

690
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: based on and how how big of an impact it

691
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: does have long families. Um, I think it impacts the

692
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: US as well, But again, we have a lot more patriarchy,

693
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: uh and misogynistic ideas in the US to me, especially

694
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 1: when it comes to families with that whole Western icet

695
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: Christian idea of the man being the head of the household.

696
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: That's a whole different conversation. But I feel like this

697
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: is definitely a huge leaning into like Latino and UH

698
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: Asian communities that we're gonna talk about soon. Yeah. But yeah,

699
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: so we're gonna keep talking about the mother daughter relationship

700
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: in this and and then there's a passage in this

701
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: in her book saying Maria Isabelle's mother worn down by

702
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: decades of loss, hard work, nonetheless retained a certain elegance.

703
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: Her skin was smooth, with hardly a line, her teeth

704
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: neat rose unstained. After her husband's death, Aurelia had many collars,

705
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 1: men with missing teeth and a sunweathered papery skin, who

706
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: presented a little in the way of wealth, a donkey,

707
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: a small plot of mango and plantain trees, but offered

708
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: care that she brushed off. She said. A woman does

709
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: not abandon love of God, nor of country, nor a family.

710
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: She'd say in those days before the men stopped seeking

711
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: her out, I will die a widow. Such is my

712
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: fate in life. Yeah. I thought that was interesting because

713
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: sort of compared to how they described Aurelia of like

714
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: the smooth skin, perfect teeth, and the collars male collars

715
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: being like missing teeth, sunweathered, and then her saying like,

716
00:40:54,280 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, kind of this religious patriotic family level responsible

717
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: of no our widow. Right, I'm fine with this. I

718
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 1: don't need you. I think it's interesting because Maria's introduction

719
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: as well, when she talks about the books and working

720
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: at the factory, she also talks about people looking at

721
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: her talking to her. She's like I don't want that

722
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: and kind of that same level of like these men

723
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: do not offer the quality I need, kind of that

724
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: conversation or the love. Uh. And I think that was

725
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: like a comparison to the mother, was like, how dare

726
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: you come to my mother who was of this elegance

727
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: in this way offering me a donkey? Um? And I

728
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: like that. I like that's a strong sense of like, yeah, yeah,

729
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,479
Speaker 1: I know you're worth No, you're worth what you want. Yes.

730
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of a lot of themes,

731
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: current themes about caring for sick guardians and also being

732
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: the dutiful daughter, which we've talked about before too. Um.

733
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: Here is a quote the baby's wailing mixed with the

734
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: firecracker sounds of gunna blade yelling to the sky. An

735
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 1: Tonio's mother cut the cord, placing the wriggling infant and

736
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: Maria Isabel's arms wrapped a blanket over mother and child.

737
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: But Maria Isabel pulled herself to stand on wobbly legs,

738
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 1: we smeared with blood and sweat, trembling. The baby cried

739
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 1: out again, and she held it close to her heart,

740
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: tried to remember the feeling of her mother's arms as

741
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: a child. So this is Marie Isabel gave birth with

742
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: this like huge act of like war rebellion is happening

743
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: around here. I feel like there's some symbolism there with like,

744
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, a new country or a new government being

745
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: born as well, but having that going on around you

746
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: while you're trying to have a baby, and then knowing

747
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: like this is the life You're gonna raise a child

748
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: in this environment or either find way out of this environment,

749
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: which is a lot of responsibility um, which is a

750
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: good segue to my next quote, which is um a

751
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: quote where where it's sort of a stream of consciousness

752
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: idea of like raising children and the difficulty of being

753
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: mother and it goes thinks how even the best mothers

754
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: in the world can't always save their daughters. And so

755
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: I thought that was a common theme in this too,

756
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: of these no win situations, like you try your best,

757
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: but again there are these external forces. There are these

758
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: things that are working against you. There are these obstacles

759
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: that are set up to make things hard for you,

760
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: that just make it impossible. Yeah, right, And that brings

761
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 1: us to this storyline about we mentioned earlier about ice

762
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: um and how that plays plays a role in all

763
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: of this. So Jeanette's neighbor, Gloria is detained by Ice

764
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: and her daughter Anna is left at home her very

765
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: young daughter um and Gloria is taken to this Texas

766
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: Immigration center and she says, quote, I do not want

767
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: my child here where every child has a cough in

768
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: the guards run their eyes, ever curves, hungry. I do

769
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: not want my child here, but I do not want

770
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: her alone thousands of miles away. I want my child safe.

771
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: If safe, for a place, it would look nothing like

772
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: any of my options. And I want to scream, but

773
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: I swallow. I want to claud but I smile because

774
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: I need to seem good, because I need to seem

775
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: worthy of something, something, some solution. Yeah. So again like

776
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: that kind of know when situation of I don't want

777
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: her here, I don't want her alone. I don't want

778
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: to go back where it's dangerous. And you know, I

779
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: really do appreciate that she jumped into talking about ice,

780
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: and I don't know how. I'm sure she researched it.

781
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: I didn't get that background on that. I don't know

782
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: if she was able to visit any because we know

783
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: it's pretty notoriously. Did she she worked with a nonprofit

784
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 1: organization in fourteen in Texas. She has experienced with it. Yeah,

785
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: I'm yeah. So I'm wondering if she actually got to

786
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: stay because I know, like for a long time they

787
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: were trying to hide it and pretend like it wasn't

788
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 1: that bad, calmed down, it's fine, um, And it wasn't.

789
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: It was awful. Um. And as we know, in the

790
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: state of Georgia, we've had an incident where women were

791
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: given in voluntary his direct is forced to have his

792
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: direct me because gen x and uh, Georgia's racist, especially

793
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: when it comes to refugees and immigration. And I really

794
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: did appreciate that she kind of dug into that. She

795
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: made it a lot more human, and I think she

796
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: made it kinder than it needed to be. I think

797
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: she's made it very realistic. But I think she really

798
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: did because in the perspective of Gloria, she was more confused.

799
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: Like as we see, because the country, especially specific states,

800
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: are not welcoming to refugees and immigration in general, it

801
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: makes it difficult for them to be able to survive

802
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: constantly and to have access to anything or such as

803
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: healthcare or uh, you know, I d s. We know this,

804
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: so I think the level of Gloria being both scared,

805
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: somewhat relieved, confused, and then just giving in, it's just

806
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: the mix. I think she does a wonderful job in

807
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: relaying the more realistic of what is happening as you're

808
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: in the middle of it, and then we'll talk about

809
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: the results of that later. But I found that really fascinating,

810
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: and I wish we could get more like that. I

811
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: wish we could get more narrative into that so people

812
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: can hear it and see it, because it needs to

813
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: be we need to bring it to light. But anyway,

814
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: moving on and continues. Sometimes I want to be a fighter,

815
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: as when I consider attacking the men who stand guard

816
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: over me, what about not caring about the consequences. Throw

817
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: me in prison, beat me with your martons, give me

818
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: up to the television another headline. Some moments I want

819
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: my daughter returned to me, but God forgive me. Others

820
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: I want a different life for her, away from me.

821
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: It's ugly to admit, but don't believe the mothers who

822
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: tell you motherhood's vocation or sacrifice or beauty or anything

823
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: on a greeting card. Motherhood question mark a constant calculation

824
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: of what if, what if we just gave up? Yeah,

825
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: I mean this is that same narrative, UM, And I

826
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: hate this narrative about why so many refugees or women

827
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: in harsh circumstances give up their children for adoption, thinking

828
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: that they're giving them a better life when it's not

829
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: necessarily true, or they're being tricked into thinking that, and

830
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: or they're being treated and thinking they're just going away

831
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: for a while coming back. That's a whole different conversation.

832
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: And essentially the system praying on on these vulnerabilities because

833
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: you don't want your child to suffer the things that

834
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: you have suffered, and trying to give them the best

835
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: life you can, and it's and it becomes such a

836
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: mixed bag to so many things. But yeah, but does

837
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 1: m Yeah. Well, another thing we wanted to talk about

838
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: that you mentioned um is literature, because throughout the book

839
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: there's there are these reoccurring themes around literature and kind

840
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: of like connecting people through generations. Because Maria is Bellows

841
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: reading Hunchback of Notre Dame or later misserabla Um and

842
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: then other le Jeannette was like, you see that kind

843
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: of go um, So Maria Isabelle. Oh, I think I

844
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: said Maria isabel earlier. Sorry. Sorry, Maria Isabelle um In

845
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: response to her wedding proposal quote, she said yes, So

846
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: she meant perhaps wedding vows had long ceased to signal escape.

847
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: She said yes because she had nothing left and a

848
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: learned man seemed as hopeful a prospect as she could conceive.

849
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 1: And she says that he too saw a conciliation through marriage.

850
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: And Maria Isabelle Antonia had found a way to flee

851
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: without lusting after other shores have found a reason to

852
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: feign a braver face each day, she knew, and despite

853
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: the weight of it, accepted her role as liberator of

854
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: a frightened man. Maria isabel thought it had always been

855
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: women who wove the future out of the scraps, always

856
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 1: the characters, never the authors. She knew a woman could

857
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 1: learn to resent this post, but she would instead find

858
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: a hundred books to read. Yeah, so she was as

859
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned, she was the one who learned to eat

860
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: in her community. She was the first woman to learn

861
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: to read, and she would read to the workers during

862
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 1: their lunch hour. She was kind of she was kind

863
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: of forced out because of that, and other reasons as well,

864
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: but it was something that was so important to her

865
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: and that she found so much solacen and so much

866
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: connection in and he goes on. In the margin of

867
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: one page, Carmen showed her was Jeanette's handwriting below another

868
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: note in faded script that seemed to spell out, so

869
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: the same thing we are forced the scribble read, and

870
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: then Jeanette had added her own words, we are more

871
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: than we think we are. Though Anna had no idea

872
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: why Jeannette had written those words, she chose to believe

873
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: the sentence the scribble was a cry across time women,

874
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: certain women, we are more than we think we are.

875
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: There was always more So this was in reference to

876
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: the book. Uh, this was what the book that had

877
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: been handed down from generation to generation. Jeanette had actually

878
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: gone to Cuba at one point in time, saw the

879
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: book in her grandmother's place, tried to steal it because

880
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: apparently she's kind of a klepto, and then got caught,

881
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: put it back, and after she left, the grandmother sent

882
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: it to her as a gift. Unfortunately she had passed

883
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 1: before then, so Carmen the mother kept it. But yeah,

884
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: so the we are fours was a continued mantra that

885
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: Maria Isabella would say even when her husband died, like

886
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 1: all these things, being a rebel, like constantly reminding herself

887
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 1: as the matriarch that we are of force. Yeah yeah,

888
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: And I really like that idea of this connection throughout

889
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: the generations throughout time. Um yeah, that's what I love

890
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: my short stories. They connected. Yes, we love it. We

891
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: love it. Something we don't love sexism, racism, which is

892
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: picked her out as well. Um so you do have

893
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: Marie Isabelle, who was a cigar roller, talking about how

894
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: she was kind of the only woman. So here's a

895
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: quote true that cigar rolling was a coveted, respectable job.

896
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 1: She had a printice for nearly a year to working

897
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: for a wage, yet the factory paid her by the

898
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: piece half of what the men earned, and she was

899
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: the only woman in the shop and knew the men

900
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 1: resented her. And she has a whole thing with her

901
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 1: boss abusing her. Um so you see also that unfortunately

902
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: throughout time of the sexism impacting all of these women, right,

903
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: which is why I also I think she did like

904
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: her husband and accepted her husband was He was the

905
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: one that taught her to read and knew she had

906
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: an interest, so it was like he was lifting her

907
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: up and seeing her ward. So that was a beautiful thing.

908
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: Goes on. One day, as I played with two school friends,

909
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: one of the Christian missionaries approached and spoke in Spanish

910
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: to me. She said, quote, despite so little, she said,

911
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: you're so happy you could teach the children in my

912
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: country so much about what's really important in life. I

913
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 1: hadn't known until the moment that I had so little,

914
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: even as an adult, when I had experienced enough to

915
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: place my own life in comparison. I marveled at the

916
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: woman's comment. I wondered what she'd expected, sad, poor people

917
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: being sad and poor at every sad, poor moment of

918
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: their lives. She mistook happiness for what it was, how

919
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: we survived and build lives out of the strings we hold.

920
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: But she must have known deep down that she was

921
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: lying to herself. She had said, I knew the secret

922
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: what was really important in life, what made a person happy?

923
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: And oh my God, and that's so unfortant about Christian missionaries. Indeed,

924
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: that savior complex and the pity, the pity compliments, and

925
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: you really just want to smack them and be like

926
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: they're fine, They've survived without you. There's a few things

927
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: if you want to help with them, medical supplies, if

928
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: you want to help build some buildings, if you want

929
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: to help get clean water. Okay, but don't come over

930
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: here telling us our lives is not happy. Right. Yeah.

931
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: That reminds me of that conversation we had around how

932
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: people will comment on folks with disabilities and feel like

933
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: it's their business. Um, so essentially make themselves feel better. Right,

934
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: this is about them exactly exactly wise, not appropriate? Goodiny

935
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: on uh this. I still haven't gotten used to the

936
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 1: blatant racism, how it commingles with revolutionary forever at times

937
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: in the older generation in a way that seems unlikely.

938
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 1: But perhaps I am naive, and racism among even revolutionaries

939
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 1: is as obvious as me sticking a lazy thong in

940
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: my pocket at sixteen, as obvious as a fact I

941
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: am no good, I say nothing. Yeah um, And then

942
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: here's another quote. But it isn't as though black Cubans

943
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: fare better in Miami, where racism is just slightly more polite,

944
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: a little quieter. This is the fact in Miami, Cuban

945
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 1: is synonymous with white in Miami, Cubans will scoff when

946
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 1: you call them Latino. I'm not Latino, I'm Cuban, they

947
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: will say, by which they mean I am white. Another

948
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,320
Speaker 1: kind of white you don't know about outsider. So Gabrielle

949
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: Garcia has a really good essay about this and her

950
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: experience and thoughts around this that you should definitely look

951
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: up at. It's it's worth reading so much. But I

952
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: thought that was important and interesting part of the conversation

953
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: to bring up that, like proximity to whiteness, right, well, yeah,

954
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: like passing a white passing is a bigger conversation. Colorism

955
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: within all the communities. All of the communities are very

956
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: heavy and prevalent, and we need to talk about that

957
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: because there was a preferential and there is another ring

958
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: of that, and that's so like offensive in itself, and

959
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: the fact that people are so ignorant not to realize

960
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: just because a nethlicity, you have a mindset of one ethnicity,

961
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: that's not true for the entire population. So you need

962
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: to calm down. Yes, agreed, Yes, agreed. Uh So to

963
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: close out, we wanted to include a few quotes about

964
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: um the section on Jeanette and Anna when Gloria on

965
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: his mom. Gloria has been taken detained by Ice, and

966
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: Jeanette brings on it to her house and is taking

967
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: care of her and trying to figure out what to

968
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 1: do with her. So here's a quote. Jeanette closes the

969
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: door to her bedroom. She lies back on the bed

970
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: and balances her laptop on her stomach. Google searches what

971
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: happens to children if their parents are deported? A link

972
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: to child protective services, a link to family detention centers

973
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 1: in the region. To lawyer after lawyer after lawyer. Another

974
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 1: search how to find someone detained an immigration and Customs

975
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: enforcement database that requires an alien registration number for the

976
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: detainey phone number. She can find lawyer after lawyer after lawyer.

977
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: So that the confusion and like no clear answer and

978
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: nobody was really willing to help you is pretty big

979
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: in this whole thing. Here's another quote. Wet squeaking through

980
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: her how us and leaving muddy imprints. She walks past

981
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 1: Anna drawing, still drawing a house, drawing a bird. Jadette

982
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: takes the phone to her room, but she doesn't call Mario.

983
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: She closes her eyes and tries to remember the opiate rush.

984
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: The watery, calm, the hit to the brain, delicious, sleepy

985
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: coasting his voice in her ear. Don't you feel every

986
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: molecule that surrounds you, everything is holding you now. She

987
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: doesn't call him after she's called the cops. She doesn't

988
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: call him, even when the police car pulls up and

989
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 1: she hears Anna opening the door and call her name,

990
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: and her heart is thumping in her chest and she

991
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: feels for the first time. No, this is what it's

992
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: like to break. Um. Yeah, it's a really heartbreaking scene.

993
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: Like Jeanette tried all these things and has no options,

994
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: and everyone kept telling her to call the police, so

995
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: she did and going back to that idea of like

996
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: no win situations. And it's just so so sad. Right,

997
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: there's so much to this, And yeah, the breakdown of

998
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: the book, just so y'all know, is that after Jeanette

999
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 1: tries all these things, she calls the jobs, her mom

1000
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 1: encourages her to call the cops, saying, there's nothing you

1001
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: can do. If you don't do this, you're gonna get

1002
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: yourself in trouble. You're gonna get in trouble. You these

1003
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: are the bad things that don't happen to you, And

1004
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: so she does. Turns out that Anna had been with

1005
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: a babysitter. Gloria was hoping that the babysitter would have

1006
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: kept her and kept her as her own essentially and

1007
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: give her a life that she couldn't, but then she

1008
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: came back. They get deported and they get deported to Mexico,

1009
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: which that's not where they're from. They're from Elf Savador.

1010
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: So they get dropped off into Mexico, even though she

1011
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: had repeatedly told the people asking for help that she

1012
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: did not live in Mexico. Please don't deport me there.

1013
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: They get stuck there. Anna tries to take care of

1014
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: her mom. Again, that generational stuff happens because Anna grows older. Um,

1015
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: she's trying to take care of her mom. A lot

1016
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: of sadness happens, and that, Um, there's so many heartbroken

1017
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: moments that you're just like why. And for me personally,

1018
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: I've had this similar situation, not this necessarily, but where

1019
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: we have had to like if a kid gets in

1020
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: trouble or families and committed, we were required by law

1021
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: to contact the embassy and report them. I will tell

1022
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: this and they can't do anything to me. I refused

1023
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: to do so. I would never because I'm like, I'm

1024
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: not doing this. This is obnoxious, and if we do this,

1025
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: we're sending the family away from the child because the

1026
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: child was born in the US. And it's the whole

1027
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: problem which there is no solution and no one wants

1028
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: to help you. Even when we try to find lawyers

1029
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: ourselves as government workers, it was impossible. And there's that

1030
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: one scene in which Gloria tries to talk to someone

1031
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: who tries to get her to sign away something that

1032
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 1: she couldn't read and understand. He's like, if you don't

1033
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: do it, which I'm pretty sure is why she got deported.

1034
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: But also, yeah, Jeanette's solution was to call a lawyer

1035
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: and the lawyer talks to her and be like, if

1036
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: you send me five thousand dollars, I can help you.

1037
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: And it's so painful and so painful. I will say,

1038
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: we do have an amazing group of lawyers in Georgia. Uh,

1039
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: one of them being like somewhat of friends, a mutual

1040
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I know. And she's they are

1041
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: amazing and working with the immigration and refugee clients here

1042
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: at Georgia, but it's there's so few of them it's

1043
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: so few that they can't take on the cases. But

1044
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: it's so frustrating, but it's so real, and yeah, it

1045
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: keeps going, Um, they killed your uncle. Six months later,

1046
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: you still latched to my chest, You're still sleeping in

1047
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: a bundle by my side. I will spare you the

1048
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: details and say only this, I made a choice again

1049
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: for you, and I'm sorry I had nothing else to

1050
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: offer Anna. But there are no real rules that govern

1051
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: why some are born in turmoil and others never know

1052
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: a single day in which next seems an ill considered Bet,

1053
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: it's all lottery, Anna, all chance. It's the flick of

1054
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: a coin and we are born. And yeah, so this

1055
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: is after Anna comes back to be reunited with her mom,

1056
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: which is a better scenario than some, but it's it's

1057
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: so sad in this intergenerational Also, one of the things

1058
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: that we didn't talk about is that Carmen and her

1059
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: mother no longer have a relationship, and they kept saying

1060
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: she left and it was political reasons, it was political reasons.

1061
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: And then turn is out that Carmen had witnessed her

1062
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: mother disposing of the body of her father after the

1063
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: mother had killed the father, who was abusive and Carmen

1064
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: never saw that portion because her mom tried to protect her.

1065
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: So there's so many layers of this, and then the

1066
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: like ill set sadness that they all lost touch with

1067
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: their mothers somehow on a left after the death of

1068
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: her mother, try to connect back with Jeanette, only to

1069
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: discover Jeanette had died of an overdose, but connected with Carmen.

1070
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: So that was an interesting ending, kind of hopeful maybe, yeah,

1071
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: I say that shaking Lee. Yeah. No, it's it's so

1072
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: much of it is as we said, it's beautiful and heartbreaking,

1073
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: and I love I feel like all the characters and

1074
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: all the connections and all the trauma, like you can

1075
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: see why they made the decisions that they did, and

1076
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: we obviously really loved it. Highly recommend it. Yes, I

1077
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: think it's what beautifully written. I think it has a

1078
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: lot of conversations about mother daughter bonds and what mothers

1079
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: do for their children, what the children see and try

1080
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: to do for themselves and too for their mothers as

1081
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: well sometimes and how it can go all right no

1082
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: matter what. Yep, Yes, now it's really it's really wonderfully written,

1083
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: So please check it out if you haven't already. In

1084
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: the meantime, if you have a book you would like

1085
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: to suggest to us, please do our emails Stuff Dr

1086
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: mom Stuff and I Hurt me dot com. You can

1087
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram.

1088
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: A stuff when I never told you. Thanks It's always

1089
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: start A super producer, Christina, thank you and thanks to

1090
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: you for listening stuff whenever told the production. But I

1091
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: hart radio for more podcast on my Heart Radio because

1092
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: if you hear radio app, I have a podcast to

1093
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: Radula listen to your favorite shows