1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: we need to make conformed and educated decisions to have success. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: this started, all right, Welcome to another episode of the 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. I am joined today by Kate Mitzlmacher, 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: and she is the founder and CEO of block Accelerate, 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: which is a fund that's in the blockchain space and 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: and really getting into a lot of these projects we're 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: going to talk about, but let's just get into it. So, Kate, 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: All right, thanks for coming so um just for those 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: that don't know more than that, just little intro, tell 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: us who you are and kind of your background and 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: how you got to where you are and what you're 18 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: doing right now. Sure. So, I am the CEO founder 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: of a fund specifically dedicated to deploying capital into this 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: emerging space called Blockchain um Are fund. Of sort of 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: hypothesis driven in our thesis is that blockchain is going 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: to generate trillions of dollars worth of wealth over the 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: next five to ten years. We see it as the 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: next inflection points similar to the Internet, similar to microchips, 25 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: similar to Industrial Revolution, when enormous amount of wealth came 26 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: out of the innovation and those who managed to create 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: companies around it capitalize on that innovation within the same 28 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: sort of wave is going to happen with blockchain. And 29 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: we see this fund as a dedicated vehicle not just 30 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: to invest in companies, but help them scale, build the 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: infrastructure to help them succeed. Um. And that's sort of 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: what we were focused on today. Great, all right, UM, 33 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: there's definitely a need for that, right any you're kind 34 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: of at the front helping these companies get up off 35 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: the ground, really helping push the industry forward. I like that. Um, 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: do you want to tell us, like, uh, I mean, 37 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: were you involved in tech or finance or economics before 38 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: you got to this position? Yeah? Sure so. I guess 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: the way that I got involved with blockchain is I 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: was fortunate to be in the right place at their time, 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: like a lot of people, and um, and I was 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: involved with technology since two thousand and eight. I was 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: working for a global research firm called Gartner, where we 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: got a chance to track trends or cloud computing to 45 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: big data, to cybersecurity, and blockchain came about in about sixteen, 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: and that's when we formed a division to track more 47 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: than a hundred different proof of concepts, and that's when 48 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: I sort of started seeing this wave of interest coming 49 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: from enterprises. It was enormous amount of inquiries to Gardner 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: from c i os of fortunate companies who wanted to 51 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: learn about this technology. And I sort of saw this 52 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: parag so not enough startups coming to us and trying 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: to pitch to those enterprises. So to me, it seems 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: sort of been a symmetric um market dynamic that I 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: thought was interesting and in two seen when I left, 56 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: I thought it's a perfect time to come in and 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: start building out the infrastructure because it's going to take 58 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: a few years to close the gap between where the 59 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: expectations were with blockchain when everybody got excited about it, 60 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: about all the different use cases, but the technology wasn't 61 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: quite ready yet, so the timing was good. But just 62 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: a quick story about myself, I think that might be 63 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: interesting for listeners to hear, is that while my fund 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: is focused on making returns UM and UH financial returns 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: to all peace. Personally, I'm driven by this mission to 66 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: make blockchain ubiquitous. And the reason for that is because 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: of where I come from. UM. I was born and 68 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: raised in the Soviet Union, UM, and the environment that 69 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: I was raised in was extremely centralized. There was nothing 70 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: anything but open financial infrastructure that we're trying to imagine. 71 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: And today said, to give you an example. In my mother, 72 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: UM was out of job. She was an aerospace engineer 73 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: and militarization happened. She had to go start a business. 74 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: So she went to a bank and we only had 75 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: one bank in my hometown of seventy thousand people, and 76 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: she had to borrow money and a hundred percent interest rate, 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: and that's literally the only option she had to gain 78 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: access to capital. So she borrowed money. Between n two 79 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: we had a three thousand percent inflation because Russian rouble 80 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: was collapsing, the country was unstable, and obviously she had 81 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: to go bankrupt. She did it multiple times, and finally 82 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: she had built a business, started generating cash flow. We 83 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: started building a house on a beautiful bank over river, 84 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: and that was the year of financial crisis, and that's 85 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: when rubal devalued thirty x within twelve months and then 86 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: sixty x within forty eight months. So it was sort 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: of this living through this continuous wave of fluctuation where 88 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: you don't know what you're going to do next day, 89 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: like let alone next year, gave me a thing appreciation 90 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: for hedge against your local currency. It was rubal um. 91 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: And in many other cases in countries such as Venezuela 92 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: or Brazil, or many countries in Africa like Zimbabwe, where 93 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, the inflation was in trillions of percentage points. 94 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: I think that's sort of a an interesting use case 95 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: that we here in the United States still necessarily see 96 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: as a little hanging growth. Yeah, definitely. And you know 97 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people the United States do kind of 98 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: get that tunnel vision where they look at the US 99 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: doesn't see that they don't have that problem. But this 100 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: is global. This is a global thing. Um. Now in 101 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: is that when the Soviet Union fell, was that the 102 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: USSR fel still in and then between we try to 103 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: sort of bring this democratic capitalistic system in place and failed. 104 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: I thought, I remember somewhere like in the mid nineties 105 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: watching the TV like as like it was coming down. Maybe, 106 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: but I don't know, maybe not. I think August of 107 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: nineteen one, I still remember watching TV and taking strolling 108 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: into Kremlin. Yeah so then so then through that period, 109 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we had you had seen the currencies crashing 110 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: through inflation. I'm guessing at that point the governments for 111 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 1: printing more money. It was devaluing the currency. Your money 112 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: was losing value, um, and you're paying exorbit rates to 113 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: borrow and your money was invo at the same time, right, Well, 114 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: essentially the central banks collapsed on its payments all together. 115 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: I recently heard a story actually just last week. I'm 116 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: curious to get your take. So it was a there's 117 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: a book written about y MR Germany crashing after World 118 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: War Two, and it was kind of like a autobiography 119 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: of people that lived through that and they said that, um, 120 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: as it was happening, they didn't really feel like their 121 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: money was losing value. They thought everything else was just 122 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: getting more expensive. Do you think that's how it was 123 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: or did you not look at it that way? That's 124 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: a good way to look at it. But a lot 125 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: of expenses we had were actually in US dollars. That 126 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: was at the time a professional form dancer. That's a 127 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: funny story about it, and all of my lessons were 128 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: in the US dollars. Um So for us, I remember 129 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: getting going to a kiosk in exchanging money and at 130 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: one point it was six to one and the next 131 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: day was sixty to one. So in a way, everything 132 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: is becoming more expensive. If um, so you did see 133 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,559 Speaker 1: things getting more expensive at that time, you didn't really 134 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: look at it as your money was losing value. I 135 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: think those are the same things. Well. I think like 136 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: a lot of times, even in the United States, right, like, 137 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: people see prices getting more expensive, but they don't realize 138 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: that their money is actually losing value. And I think 139 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: that's a big different, different way to look at It's 140 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: the same thing. It's the same thing, like you said, um, 141 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: but someone who's seen the extreme side of it, you 142 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: obviously have a different opinion. So well, having lived in 143 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: Russia and now having lived in the United States for 144 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: the last thirteen years, I don't think US dollars losing 145 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: value at any rate close to what we've seen in 146 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: any other countries. Yeah, And I think in that way 147 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: we have been pretty lucky here was somewhat of a 148 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: stable currency that we can somewhat rely on, even though 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: we have ninety trillion plus debt as a country and 150 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: certainly have a lot of problems, but we're lucky in 151 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah. Sure. So then, um, were you first 152 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: drawn to bitcoin as like a new money that gave 153 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: you this hedge like you said you were looking for 154 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: this hedge or did you more see like the technology 155 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: and kind of dove in that way? So first I 156 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: saw a bitcoin, and that's when I made my investment, um, 157 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: thinking it's probably going to go to zero, but nonetheless 158 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: it was it was a sort of a bath or 159 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: a hedge. Um. And then in parallel to that, I 160 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: was doing my masters at Harvard in international relations and 161 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: foreign policy, and that's when I started getting exposure to 162 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: some of the social impact of blockchain, specifically as was 163 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: studying the case study at Hondora's um and the issue 164 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: they had with land titles, when essentially you own your land, 165 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: but you have no way to prove it other than 166 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: a piece of paper that government had issued and then 167 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: kept the centralized database the record off and then some 168 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: his brother in law would go to the government, change 169 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: the record, and your property has gone forever. So to 170 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: me that sort of opened my eyes to the blockchain 171 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: and the impact that I can have. And then, obviously 172 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: of being a gartner, started looking at enterprise use cases 173 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: and sort of the conclusion that I came to UM 174 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: is that the last ten years of blockchain were very 175 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: different from what we're going to see in the next 176 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: ten years of blockchain. UM. The last ten years of blockchain, 177 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: we're all about cryptic currencies, digital goal, digital cash, other 178 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: forms of coins, privacy coins. And not to say that 179 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,479 Speaker 1: this category is going away, it's actually going up exponentially 180 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: as well. But what we're going to see over the 181 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: next ten years is going to be more and more 182 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: adoption of the actual blockchain technology by enterprises and governments 183 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: around the world, and revenue generating companies coming to fruition. 184 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: And that's sort of the angle that our fund is 185 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: looking to capitalize on. We already have a few investments 186 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: UM identified that we're deploying capital into that are making revenues, 187 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: selling to fortune part hunter companies, creating real business outcomes, 188 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: and that's what's interesting. So blockchain technology can be used 189 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: for many different things, one being a new monetary system 190 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: or as a money or payment system, but then there's 191 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: other use cases UM, and that's kind of where you're focusing, 192 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: so other types of applications where the technology could work, 193 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: and I can walk you through our thesis more granularly. Yeah, 194 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: I'd love it. I'd be great. Why don't we hear that? Sure? So, 195 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: um think about it as a stack, if you will. 196 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: That's how we view it. And at the bottom of 197 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: the stack we have the protocols. And you probably are 198 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: familiar with a theory called the fat particle theory, which 199 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: we agree to a certain extent, so the fat protocol 200 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: theory for those who don't know sense release states unlike 201 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: the aren N when t c P i P was invented, uh, 202 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: Tim burners Ley did not monetize it. The protocol layers, 203 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: the company's the facebooks, the Googles of the world came 204 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: on talk to c P i P. They a crude 205 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: majority of the value. They say blockchain is going to 206 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: be reversed. So the protocols, the likes of Ethereum, eos Um, Cardonna, 207 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: you know, they hash grown. They're the ones monetizing and 208 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: everything else sort of a sin a layer of the stack. 209 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: Our hypothesis is that it's only going to be true 210 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: for the next few years until protocols become commoditized. At 211 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: some point in time, the technology will become good enough. 212 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: There might be four or five six protocols dominating the market, 213 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: maybe silver, gold, Platinum, then a flavor for financial services, 214 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: the flavor for supply chain and everything else will sort 215 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: of become consolidated and the technology will be good enough, 216 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: and that's when the value will move up the step 217 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: to the application layer. So what this means for us 218 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: is that at the moment we are investing in protocols, 219 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: but we think majority of our investments, because our fun 220 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: term is five to ten years, the majority of our 221 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: investments will fall into the middleware layer and into the 222 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: application layer. And I can talk a little bit more detail, 223 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: and so um for everyone that's listening that doesn't quite 224 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: follow along. So um, in the Internet, we have protocols 225 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: that are standardized things that everybody builds too. And she 226 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: mentioned t c P I P, which is kind of 227 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: how the information is found and transmitted. But there's also 228 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: other protocols. So we have a protocol for email, right SMTP. 229 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: We have a protocol for security. So there's different types 230 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: of protocols for different types of things. And um, I 231 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: guess just talking on this protocol layer. Right now, you're 232 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: saying that we're seeing just a ton of protocols. Seen 233 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: was the protocol war or whatever. But you think it's 234 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: going to settle down to just a couple of protocols, Well, UM, 235 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: don't quote me on numbers. It's UM, it's really hard 236 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: to tell how many protocols will will dominate. But the 237 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,119 Speaker 1: bottom line, there will be a finite number of protocols. 238 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: We're not gonna need a hundred plus protocols. UM. There 239 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: will be interoperability among those protocols. They will become scalable 240 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: at the moment they're not UM, GDP are compliant, UM 241 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: and so forth. And when that happens, that's sort of 242 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: when the protocol later will become commodities. I think the 243 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: ultimate value is about building real products and services for 244 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: consumers and for enterprises. Regardless what blockchain protocol it's on, 245 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: it should be invisible, it should be working, UM, it 246 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: should be good enough. UM. Nobody needs to know that 247 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: it's built on ethereum on it's building hyper LEGA just 248 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: needs to how the properties of immutability, transparency, auditability, ability. 249 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm curious on that. So you just said immutability, So 250 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: for me. I'm like, if you don't need censorship resistance 251 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: and immutability, what you need a blockchain for? Just go 252 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: have a database. I'm curious, especially with your background UM 253 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: from Russia and then even referencing like Honduras, it seems 254 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: like the censorship resistance portion is a big piece of that. 255 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: And it seems to me that that starts at the 256 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: protocol layer. So applications could be built that are less immutable, right, 257 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: so they have you know, claud acts or whatever, but 258 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: it has to start at the base layer. Do you 259 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: agree with that or not? Really? Well, I think there's 260 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: two different questions there. The first one I used to 261 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: agree with you, then I changed my mind a little 262 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: bit on that. Okay, So I think there's a set 263 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: of use cases that would not survive without a blockchain, 264 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: meaning there's no other way for you to do completely 265 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: fair are resistant, government resistant, land title system on a 266 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: private blockchain. It has to be done on a public 267 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: chain because true public chain is truly immutable. That's sort 268 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: of the core value proposition of it. Voting, for example, 269 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: that could be another example of where mutability truly matters. 270 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of use cases where UM immutability 271 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: is important, but it's not a deal breaker like a 272 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: video game, right, yeah, for a video game, or let's 273 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: even just say, um, you know, provenance of of seeds 274 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: in a supply chain is as long as you can 275 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: sort of track back the time stamped order of when 276 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: and where they came from, and you have regulators in 277 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: the network who confirmed that this was indeed, you know, 278 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: stamped at the right time. You know, if you go 279 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: back and change it and you can see that somebody 280 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: change that, it's sort of not not the end of 281 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: the world. So I think eventually I see it as 282 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: three three reasons to do things on the blockchain. Number 283 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: one is a mutability. Number two is whenever you're working 284 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: with multiple parties who don't know and don't trust each other, 285 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: and they need to sort of have a single version 286 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: of truth that is somewhat immutable and without having a 287 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: centralized intermediary controlling that version of truth, that's when blockchain 288 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. And number three is programmability, 289 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 1: meaning when this happens, then this is the outcome. If 290 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: you if your flight is delayed, you should get your 291 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: flight insurance, or if your flight is canceled, you should 292 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: get your money back. So whenever there's if this and that, 293 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: then smart contract could ability makes a lot of sense. 294 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: And that's sort of immutability or no immutability, it's still 295 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: a really good use case for latching. Yeah. Great, Okay, 296 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: So if we're moving up the stack, you had talked 297 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: about like the industrial revolution, and I've studied all these 298 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: industrial revolutions, or actually say technological revolutions. There's been five 299 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: in the last two or fifty years. It looks like 300 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: even though they're different technologies, they all kind of evolved 301 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: the same way, it seems to me. And uh, you 302 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: talked about, you know, going from protocols to applications, but 303 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: really if you look at the Internet as the as 304 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: the last revolution, well anyway, I don't think that's part 305 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: of the revolution, but anyway, Uh, you kind of have protocols, 306 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: which would be the t C P I P s, 307 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: but then it didn't go straight to applications, right, so 308 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: then we have like platforms in between. So like for example, 309 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: Instagram or Instagram's a app, but it's on iOS and 310 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: iOS runs on tc pH And I think you reference 311 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: that with like your middleware, right, is that kind of 312 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: what you're talking about? So what I'm talking about when 313 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: I think about middleware, in my view of the stack 314 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: is three things. One is protocol enabling layer, application enabling layer, 315 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: and then identity enabling layer. So there's sort of platfora 316 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: of companies that are solving problems on the protocol, the 317 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: issues around operability or interoperability, security, privacy, those are sort 318 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: of platform enabling layers UM application enabling layer in a way, 319 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: is what you're talking about is how can you get 320 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: access to the platfor of applications out there, while in 321 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: univerrows er UM, you know you need some form of 322 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: an operating system, you need UM the wallet even to 323 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: or some form of identity which leads into the upper layer, 324 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: which is the identity and if so, I sort of 325 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: see those three as the middleware UM. And then it's 326 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: interesting because one comp anywhere investing in right now, they 327 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: are a fork or ethereum. So they created a fork 328 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: m ethereum, but they are essentially configured that fork to 329 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: appeal to what enterprises would want to see, such as 330 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: high throughput permission GDP, are compliance security, and they sort 331 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: of enabling those enterprises to build applications on top of 332 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: those bottom protocols even though it's a fork. So I 333 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: sort of see that even as a middlewhere because it's 334 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: also not industry specific, it's across um in industry agnostic, 335 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: across multiple companies, multiple industries. Do you think that's kind 336 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: of like what we saw though in the Internet days, 337 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: where um, you know, in the early nineties, all these 338 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: companies said, oh, we can't be on this public Internet, 339 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: We're gonna build an intranetum. But eventually everybody came around 340 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: and everybody's on the open Internet. Do you think we're 341 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: seeing the same thing with that. I do, even though 342 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: we are invest seeing those types of companies, I don't 343 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: think it's a deal breaker because they can always ce 344 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: mibrate to the public chain. And I sort of see 345 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: the matter of time, at some point in time, the 346 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: public chain will become good enough to handle throw quote 347 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: it to become permissioned when it's necessary or um uh 348 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: private privacy of data and when there's different there's different 349 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: investing thesis and time frames too, so like this might 350 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: be a really good investment for the next five years, 351 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: but then eventually it changes or something that's right. So 352 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: it's an evolution, and I think we're in very early days. 353 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: It's sort of we just invented electricity and we're trying 354 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: to Teleration said, that's totally what's happening. So that's a 355 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: that's a great that's a great point, and I wanted 356 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: to ask you about that. Right. So, um, they say 357 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: that being early is the same as being wrong. Right, 358 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: You're not going to create a television when you just 359 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: create electricity. We saw in the internet days again, you 360 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: know the famous pets dot com explosion. That was a 361 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 1: great idea and people buy all their pet stuff online, 362 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: but there was nobody buying an thing online at the time. 363 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: So I believe there's like the sequencing, right, And do 364 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: you agree with that? And if so, like do you think, 365 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: like Depps, is not the time for depths, like right 366 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: now we're still kind of in the protocol, maybe into 367 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: the protocol, maybe into that middlewhere layer right now and 368 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: then depths come later or how do you look at that? No, 369 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think there will not be 370 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: any successful protocols and there's not going to be any 371 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: successful depths. So one is sort of driving another. I 372 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: think we just got a notification that run out of time. 373 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: We got it. Um, but I think that applications is 374 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: what's ultimately going to drive this industry to be successful. 375 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: And I think if we try to time it too carefully, 376 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: we're going to miss out. Nobody knows whether we're in 377 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: the or whether in two thousand four isn't. Many people 378 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: are trying to guess. They're probably mostly wrong. So the 379 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: best it to look at it is one by one 380 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: basis is looking at companies the problems they're trying to solve. 381 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: Are they solving problems with blockchain where the blockchain is 382 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: actually needed? Um, and are they getting traction? You know 383 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: they're getting traction, they're probably getting revenue. So that's sort 384 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: of that's a better way to look at it. And 385 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: try to say, oh, we're only investing in protocols and 386 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: we're only investing in middle where we're only investing in 387 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: you know, site chains. That's nonsense. So you've identified the 388 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: different layers, but you're investing into the best projects that 389 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: you find in each one right now, Yes, because we 390 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: don't know where the timing is. Yeah, I agree. Just 391 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: because it happened you know that way, it may not 392 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: directly apply this time. So that's that I would say 393 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: in the application layer. There are some projects that I 394 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: think more of long term bets than short term vets, 395 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: and I'm not investing in them at the moment because 396 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna happen in the next five 397 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: or so. To give you an example, Um replacing marketplaces 398 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: is like replacing Uber alltogether. In theory, you can run 399 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: a smart contract connect buyers and sellers, drivers and writers 400 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: and just put them on an app that's not following 401 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: by Uber and everybody gets a piece of the pie. 402 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: So it sounds like a utopian vision, but technology is 403 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: not there yet. Unit scalability in order to do that. 404 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: Trust is not there yet. There's no identity laier that 405 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: self sovereign and trusted so that you get in the 406 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: car with an Uber driver you can trust that he 407 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: didn't murder or more a thousand people before, and at 408 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: the moment you trust the central party such as uber. Um. 409 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: In the blockchain world, you would trust the system, but 410 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: it hasn't been developed. The identity system has not been 411 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: developed yet. So those sort of projects I think more 412 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: long term focused, and we wouldn't necessarily invest right now. 413 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: That that's a that's a good breakdown. I appreciate that 414 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: so um, then is your fun then really geared more 415 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: like as a venture fund? So you talked earlier about 416 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: kind of having that long time horizon, So are you 417 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: do you consider yourself more of a venture fund you're 418 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: investing into early stage or do you actually have your 419 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: fund broken up into like different sectors. Now it's a 420 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: it's a long term focus eight year plus two ten 421 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: year horizon fund. UM. We invest of our assets into 422 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: tokens and majorities, so into equity of mostly revenue generating companies. 423 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: Majority of them will be selling to some form of 424 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: an enterprise or B two B play. Are these companies 425 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: that are part of it? Is also because we have 426 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: expertise in that. So it's not to say there's not 427 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: opportunities in the consumer. We as a fund have expertise 428 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: in the enterprise, so that's wherever we want to play. 429 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: And you say revenue generating, So um, you're looking to 430 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: invest in the companies who are already generating revenue or 431 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: you're trying to get them to generate revenue as quickly 432 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: as possible, both for pally preferably former. Yeah, of course, right, 433 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: So as a venture fund or long term focus fund, UM, 434 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: how do you look at risk in this space, and 435 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: how do you manage that risk like through diversification. I 436 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: guess do you stage in your investments like good question. 437 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: So yes, Obviously every venture fund is in the business 438 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: of risk risk management essentially UM, and every venture fund diversifies. 439 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: But I think there's limited diversification where you're just placing 440 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: the bets because you're fraid to miss out on something 441 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: that's not diversification. That's just that strategy. UM in terms 442 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: of our strategy is the way we knew it as 443 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: a funnel. So we know that we don't know everything. 444 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: We know we're probably going to be wrong in a 445 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of times, so we want to make enough bets 446 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: UM in the forefront with smaller check sizes, where we 447 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: sort of use it as cost of information, if you will. 448 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: We understand the company a little bit better, we work 449 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: with them, we get to know the team, and then 450 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: the majority of our capital specifically seventy percent of our 451 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: capital is reserved for the follow on and that's when 452 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: we already have conviction about the company's strategy, about their execution, 453 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: about their team, and we double down on the winners. 454 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: So this sort of the funnel approach is how we 455 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: view risk management if you will. Okay, Yeah, So for 456 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, someone who's listening to this that's kind of 457 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: maybe just looking at putting their own money into the space. 458 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: I mean, they could follow a similar approach where it's 459 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: like a venture fund. They're diversifying through I don't know, 460 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: twenty different positions, but not putting all the money in. 461 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: You're saying like, as the project is proving itself, you're 462 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: averaging in milestone based personal based, so as as milestones 463 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: are hit, they're building trust. If you continue to like 464 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: what you're seeing, you continue to invest in. And this 465 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: was the problem with the space and when projects are 466 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: raising fifty plus million dollars with no milestones and oftentimes 467 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: no truck record and sometimes not even the product, let 468 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: alone product market fifth. So I think we're sort of 469 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: moving back to more traditional, you know, disciplined venture style financing, 470 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: which is which is healthy. But for somebody who is 471 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: an individual, I would say it takes a lot of 472 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: time and a lot of effort to source and I 473 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: mean we have a team of ten and we do 474 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: it full time. Yeah, and we feel like we are 475 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: we don't know everything, you know, So yeah, it's definitely 476 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: it's definitely risky with I mean anybody's money. You're managing 477 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: other people's money, which is a heavier burden as well. Um, 478 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: but we're running out of time, so let's let's I 479 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: appreciate that talk. But I'm just curious if we future, 480 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: if we kind of forecast the future a little bit, 481 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: which is always just kind of a little fun topic. Um. 482 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: Right now, Bitcoin has just been crushing all coins. Um, 483 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: you know historically in the short history we have, that's 484 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: kind of the way it goes and all coins come back. 485 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: Does that Does that concern you at all? I mean, 486 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: you're obviously invested in the space, so I'm guessing not. 487 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: But what do you think about that relationship? So it 488 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: doesn't concern me as a fun manager because the majority 489 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: of our investments are in equity, so we sort of 490 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: see it as a hedge against the fluctuations of the space. 491 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: With that said, with the tent and we do invest 492 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: into it's I sort of see it's similar to you 493 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: that bitcoin is the gold standard, is sort of the 494 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: they move the wave behind this sort of um capital 495 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: influx into the rest of the coins, and then once 496 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: it reaches a certain point, and by the way, it 497 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: would not be surprised if it does go to a 498 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: hundred thousand, and don't quote me on that, but once 499 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: it happens, then you sort of have enough investors feeling 500 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: like they can diversify, and that's sort of naturally trickles 501 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: into alt coin. UM. But I think the regulation has 502 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: become a lot stricter since TV, so that's a good 503 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: thing because the quality of the old coins is actually 504 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: going up as well. UM. And I wouldn't be surprised 505 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: if we're going to see another wave similar to what 506 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: we saw in the past happening again. Right. I think 507 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: we will, right, I mean we we we see cycles 508 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: and human psychology is always the same, and so I 509 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: think we'll see a repeat of that. Um. Speaking of regulations, today, 510 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: I was watching uh, Facebook get grilled by by Congress 511 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: about regulations and stuff like that. Um. We've seen Donald Trump, 512 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: the President United States, and and the Fed chair tweeting 513 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: about bitcoin. UM. A lot of the heat is just hilarious. 514 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: Like I think it's a it's the first time the 515 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: bitcoin gets mentioned by the president. Everybody should be happy 516 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: about it. Whatever he said, it's sort of irrelevant. It's 517 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: sort of gotten high enough in the raider for people 518 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: who start paying attention, and to me that sounds like 519 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: free advertising. Yeah. I think most of at least Twitter 520 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: crypto Twitter was very happy about it and thought that 521 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: was bullish, um to even be mentioned by by two 522 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, high ranking people. I watched some of that 523 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: live testimony today and and they're grilling Facebook Libra. A 524 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: lot of it has to do with their um, you know, 525 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: their problems have had in the past with securing privacy 526 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: and things like that. I know they're not happy about that. 527 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: I'm just curious. It seems like the government, uh, and 528 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: not just the US government, but lots of governments are 529 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: maybe gonna start coming at Bitcoin, libra and other cryptocurrencies. Um. 530 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: Do you see that having a big effect in the 531 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: market or is that, as you said, like marketing and 532 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: maybe proves the use case more. I think every single 533 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: country has already tried to crush bitcoin in one shape 534 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: or form, and the more they try to crush it, 535 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: the more successful it becomes. Um. This is separate argument 536 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: from liberal because liberal is own by centralized entity like Facebook, 537 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: which ultimately has the selfish motives of collecting people's data 538 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: and monetizing on the data. Bitcoin doesn't have that. So 539 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: I think that, yes, the US government can crush Libra, 540 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: but it cannot crush bitcoin. We know it can't stop it, 541 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: but it could make it illegal or whatever. And I 542 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: guess what I'm starting to see. And we saw it 543 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: in Donald Trump's tweet where he said the US dollar 544 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: is the strongest it's ever been. Well, we know that's 545 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: a lie. And he's saying that too. Short it up 546 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: because just last week he's saying we need to devalue 547 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: it even more. Right, Um, So, what I see is 548 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: like internet technology allowed us to transfer information of share information, 549 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: um and now information is decentralized, everyone creates it and 550 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: shares it. And blockchain technology allows us to everyone to 551 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: create value and us to share and create value, and 552 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: that takes away from the dollar. So I see a 553 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: lot of the hate against Libra and bitcoin is about 554 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: trying to shore up their own currency and keep people 555 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: from leaving the US dollar or whatever currency they're in. 556 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: And it seems like other cryptocurrencies would also help that along. 557 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: Um So that seems to me like maybe what they're 558 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: trying to do capital controls. You don't you don't see 559 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: that at all. I don't see you as dollar going 560 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: away anytime soon. What I do see is defend creating 561 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: their own stable point that's based on some form of cryptocurrency. UM, 562 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: I think we're I'm not falling into the camp of 563 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: people who thinks that the government is evil and it 564 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: needs to go away. I think there's really good reason 565 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: to have the regulation to an extent and to have 566 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: the controls that we have. But UM, I think I 567 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: see blockchain as an enabler to their goal of having 568 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: a transparent and UM, I guess currency that is remitted 569 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: without um, you know, high frequency or high friction on 570 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: that today? Yeah? Good stuff. All right, Well we're we're 571 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: pretty much out of time, but that was some good stuff. 572 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: I really appreciated you sharing your your funds, thesis and 573 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of how you're looking at the market. UM. Do 574 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: you guys have any information that people should keep up 575 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: on Where could people learn more about that? Sure? Well, 576 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: first of all, UM, I welcome anybody to reach out 577 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: to me. I'm with Kate at block Celerate. It's bloc 578 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: c E L E r A T dot BC. I 579 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 1: feel free to share my information as well, and anybody 580 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: can go on the website UM block clerate WC to 581 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,479 Speaker 1: check us, and we do a lot of publications were 582 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: very research drivents, so we always put out reports. We 583 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: did one on stable coins that's sort of relevant to 584 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: our conversation right now. I did a prediction note where 585 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: I talked about governments adopting stable coins and identity, you know, 586 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: kinds of trends. Um and then we did one on 587 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: government adoption and you data three point oh webs three 588 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: point no era. Great. I'll definitely link to that in 589 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: the show notes for anybody listening that wants to go 590 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: check that out. But um, that's it for today again, Kate, 591 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: thank you so much. It was It was a great conversation. Yeah, 592 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Market Hey, if you like this 593 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: episode of the Market Disruptors Podcast, please help us take 594 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: this to the top of the podcast charts. Just please 595 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: do me a favor and rate review and subscribe. Taking 596 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: fifteen seconds to just leave a quick review goes a 597 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: long way and helping us reach more people and disrupt 598 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: more markets. I really appreciate you listening and I'll see 599 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: you next time on The Market Distructors Podcast.