WEBVTT - Pat Monahan 

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Chats podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>My Yesterday's Hot on a hand of Twain. That band

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<v Speaker 1>is going on the road with Bare Naked Ladies and

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<v Speaker 1>Matt Nathanson and have a new single, The Weekend Pat.

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<v Speaker 1>I read the lyrics of the Weekend. I listened to

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<v Speaker 1>the song, and it seems like there's a message tell

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<v Speaker 1>me what the song is about.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Hi, Bob, thank you for having me on your program.

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<v Speaker 2>I really am a big fan of your work. You're

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<v Speaker 2>seeming to be the smartest guy in the music industry,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've read many, many, many of your articles that

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<v Speaker 2>I adore. So the weekend is I started singing, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't talk about the weekend while playing on a piano

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<v Speaker 2>because my life and I we we noticed that on

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<v Speaker 2>the internet everyone is living this incredibly ideal lifestyle and

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<v Speaker 2>it seems to be false. And my wife and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't really brag about our lives, so we essentially don't

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the weekend. We just make memories and don't

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<v Speaker 2>post about it. We don't, you know. Some of the

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<v Speaker 2>lyrics are like, if you have to show the world,

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<v Speaker 2>if you need the world to see you, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>think about what other people are going through. If you've

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<v Speaker 2>got to tell somebody you're a boss, man, chances are

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<v Speaker 2>you ain't a boss then, because it just seems like

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of what is the Lady doth protest

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<v Speaker 2>too much? Where you would see so much good and

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<v Speaker 2>then two weeks later you find out that are going

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<v Speaker 2>through a divorce or whatever. And my idea was the

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<v Speaker 2>people who come to a training concert were making memories together, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not about what you post to your friends or

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<v Speaker 2>try to show the world what you have and how

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<v Speaker 2>good life is. It's just about having a good life.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I got that. But there's also the line

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<v Speaker 1>go on and find yourself a watergate, And there's also

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<v Speaker 1>the issue of I don't talk about the weekend. You'd

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<v Speaker 1>already know if you're a good friend. I thought that

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<v Speaker 1>maybe this was like a TMZ type reference where Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you know I've been burned. This is my regular life.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that the tabloids and people online are looking

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<v Speaker 1>to get me in a situation and publicize that. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that a pure fantasy eater is at the song at all?

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<v Speaker 2>It's definitely in the song. I think everybody's always looking

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<v Speaker 2>for a way to take somebody down. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>really a famous guy, so I'm not really on people's radar.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you are looking for somebody to lover hate,

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<v Speaker 2>go find something because I'm not it for you, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Like that's all I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, to what degree are you on social media? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>not posting, but spending time going through TikTok Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>Whatever I post, I post on Instagram and TikTok, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's all very positive. You know. I have four children

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<v Speaker 2>and have seen the negatives of what social media can do,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just try to keep things super up and

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<v Speaker 2>I definitely page through social media, Instagram and TikTok for

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<v Speaker 2>comedy and golf, like those are my two things that

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<v Speaker 2>I look for.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's start at the beginning. Just by posting online,

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<v Speaker 1>you get hate. Of course, have you experienced hat and

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<v Speaker 1>how do you hope with that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's changed over the years because you know, I've

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<v Speaker 2>never been in the biggest nor the most popular band

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<v Speaker 2>in the world, and so people have found many things

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<v Speaker 2>to dislike about what I do and you just don't

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<v Speaker 2>read it. Like I have friends that are in the

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<v Speaker 2>industry and bands similar to mine, and they read it

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<v Speaker 2>and it's terrible. It's terrible for them. Nothing is real,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Like if you're adored by five million likes

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<v Speaker 2>and you have five thousand hates, like none of it's real.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you just have to remember, I've gotten to the

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<v Speaker 2>age where reading any opinions of me doesn't really matter anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't take any of it personally. It's not about me.

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<v Speaker 1>So how good a golfer are you.

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<v Speaker 2>I've played some good golf, I've played some bad golf.

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<v Speaker 2>My indexes at around a six right now. And I

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<v Speaker 2>just had a lesson from a good friend of mine

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<v Speaker 2>who's an older gentleman who has played in six Masters.

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<v Speaker 2>His name is Rick Fair, and he really helped me

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<v Speaker 2>with some things. I think I might be getting there.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you play?

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<v Speaker 1>What I always tell people is I got a hold

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<v Speaker 1>in one and I gave up.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I still don't have one of those.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that's a lucky shot. But I played as a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I was never good. And the problem with playing as

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<v Speaker 1>an adult, I found is people take it so seriously. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know if you're dealing with that coach

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<v Speaker 1>that the pros play a completely different game yep than

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<v Speaker 1>the average person, the way they worked the ball, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>Unless you started at a really young age, you can't

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<v Speaker 1>accomplish what they're doing. But I have friends and they're

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<v Speaker 1>so compared. I guess my mother was really played a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of golf, so I played some too, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was about you know, doing the right thing ethically. And

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<v Speaker 1>but as I say, people people are so competitive that

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<v Speaker 1>I stopped playing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I heard something today. I was talking to a

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<v Speaker 2>friend and he said his brother started playing before him,

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<v Speaker 2>and his brother gave him one piece of advice when

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<v Speaker 2>he started, and that nobody wants to be around an

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<v Speaker 2>angry golfer. And I think that's great advice, Like just

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<v Speaker 2>go out there and enjoy it and be happy that

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<v Speaker 2>you're with your people.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. The other thing is I don't have the patience

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<v Speaker 1>to work on chipping and sand shots to the degree

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<v Speaker 1>that you need to.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the grind.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you practice at that level?

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<v Speaker 2>I have started to because I It was recently in

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<v Speaker 2>the Pebble Beach per the at and T prom at

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<v Speaker 2>Pebble Beach and it was my seventh one and I

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<v Speaker 2>played terribly. And I played with a kid named Jake Knapp,

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<v Speaker 2>who's a really beautiful golfer, wonderful kid, and he said

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<v Speaker 2>he gets the most joy out of practice, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, huh, that's really interesting because I can only

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<v Speaker 2>equate that to music, and music for me, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>practice anymore. I write songs. But I think that's practice, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So we write songs until we get to until we

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<v Speaker 2>hit oil. Like I have way more terrible songs that

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<v Speaker 2>no one has ever heard than I have songs that

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<v Speaker 2>people like that they have heard. And I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>what practice is. I think that's what golf is. You

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<v Speaker 2>leave all the bad shots out there so that when

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<v Speaker 2>you get to the tournament, you have done all the work.

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<v Speaker 1>So have you played with you know, supposedly Vince Gill

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<v Speaker 1>is an amazing golfer and he was friends with Arnold Palmer.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you played with any really good people from the

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<v Speaker 1>music business on either side of the stage?

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<v Speaker 2>You know. I'm actually good pals with Vince, and we

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<v Speaker 2>threatened to play golf every summer because this guy is

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<v Speaker 2>like shooting his age and he's sixty seven now and

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<v Speaker 2>that's insane, Like that's a different level of golf. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping that I do get to play with Vince.

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<v Speaker 2>But I played with a lot of really good athletes,

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<v Speaker 2>really good professional golfers. Some Klay Walker have played with,

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<v Speaker 2>who's a country artist. He plays good golf. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of them out there that are really good.

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<v Speaker 1>So you had this lesson with fair Give me one

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<v Speaker 1>tip that he gave you that was an insight.

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<v Speaker 2>Just to to narrow my stance. I've been told that

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time, to narrow my stance, and I

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<v Speaker 2>never really put all the pieces together because it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>end there. You have to move the ball a little

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<v Speaker 2>further away, so you're reaching and I hit a fade,

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<v Speaker 2>and narrowing my stance and moving the ball a little

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<v Speaker 2>further away will help me draw the ball, and so

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<v Speaker 2>you put the little pieces together. But it really helps

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<v Speaker 2>a lot because I took that lesson to Augusta National

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<v Speaker 2>and played really good golf.

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<v Speaker 1>And how often do you play.

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<v Speaker 2>It depends, you know. Sometimes it'll be three times in

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<v Speaker 2>a week and sometimes it'll be three times in four months.

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<v Speaker 2>It just depends on I try to take every year

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<v Speaker 2>off of music, and every year I don't get off,

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<v Speaker 2>so eventually I'll play some golf.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you a member of a club.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm at a club outside of Seattle. My wife

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<v Speaker 2>is from Seattle. So I'm at a place called Aldera.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, what was the other thing that you said you

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<v Speaker 1>looked for on social media besides golf?

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<v Speaker 2>Comedy?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so who's funny? In your book?

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<v Speaker 2>Comedy is the most important thing to me and my bandmates.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, no one's interested in who's the new

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<v Speaker 2>band or anything where, Like you got any gags for me,

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<v Speaker 2>any jokes? Like I think our music is very much

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<v Speaker 2>a romantic comedy. And so we do a cruise every

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<v Speaker 2>other year and we always have a comedian on. And

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<v Speaker 2>my new favorite living comedian is a guy named Rory

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<v Speaker 2>Scovel and so he's going to perform on the cruise

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<v Speaker 2>with us this year. He's absolutely incredibly talented and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a genius when it comes to comedy. George Lopez is

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<v Speaker 2>a good friend of mine, and Ken Jong is a

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<v Speaker 2>good friend. Like when I meet comedians, there's something that

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<v Speaker 2>I just inherently love and admire about them. I think

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<v Speaker 2>the bravery of getting up there and starting from nothing

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<v Speaker 2>and then having an hour long show is got to

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<v Speaker 2>be the most difficult thing that you could ever do,

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<v Speaker 2>because you're all by.

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<v Speaker 1>Yourself and you know there are a lot of comedians

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<v Speaker 1>on social media. Are you on social media both to

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<v Speaker 1>entertain yourself and trolling for new comedians?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, but I'm also I'm on social media to

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<v Speaker 2>send the message of you know, like we have a

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<v Speaker 2>new single, we'll have a new album and a new

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<v Speaker 2>a new tour. So like I'm in Los Angeles now

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<v Speaker 2>doing TikTok videos with kids that have millions of followers,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's part of today's promotion or promoting what it

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<v Speaker 2>is you're trying to promote. It used to be you

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<v Speaker 2>write a on that maybe people will care about. You,

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<v Speaker 2>try to get some key radio stations to play it,

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<v Speaker 2>you have call out which you don't have anymore, and

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<v Speaker 2>hope that it creates a buzz, and other channels start

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<v Speaker 2>to add it, and the record president is yelling at

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<v Speaker 2>all of his staff to get that thing played, and

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<v Speaker 2>its are and now it's.

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok Okay, So your managers found these people. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>done any yet?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yesterday I did one where I was on the

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<v Speaker 2>back of a bicycle singing karaoke to my own songs

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<v Speaker 2>in a neighborhood in Los Angeles. Earlier today I did

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<v Speaker 2>one where I sat in these two kids kitchen and

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<v Speaker 2>sang a couple of songs with them. It's just, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>all these people have many millions of followers, and in

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<v Speaker 2>New York I just did week of it. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole new way of promoting. It's a wild game.

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<v Speaker 1>So since all these people are successful, do you have

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<v Speaker 1>any insight into who these people are, what makes them successful,

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<v Speaker 1>whether there's something there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there was one particular guy who does. He was

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<v Speaker 2>in New York and he does he's incredibly good at

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<v Speaker 2>Guitar Hero. And so here's a kid who grew up

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was Denver. I can't remember where he

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<v Speaker 2>grew up, but he grew up not in New York,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was so good at Guitar Hero that he

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<v Speaker 2>was like, I got to figure out what to do

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<v Speaker 2>with this. So he goes on the streets of New

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<v Speaker 2>York and gets people to play Guitar Hero to their

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<v Speaker 2>own music. And then he actually is so good at

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<v Speaker 2>it that he creates the program for that song if

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<v Speaker 2>it's not already part of Guitar Hero. And you know

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<v Speaker 2>what we did, and we did a little over the

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<v Speaker 2>weekend and drops of Jupiter. Since it's the twenty fifth

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<v Speaker 2>anniversary and that thing's got over a million views already

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<v Speaker 2>and I think it just went up yesterday. So some

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<v Speaker 2>of these people have this really interesting take on how

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<v Speaker 2>to connect with people through the Internet, and like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have that gift, but this particular guy did.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, But a lot of people have been around a

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<v Speaker 1>long time poo pooh the influencers, And there's a lot

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.960
<v Speaker 1>of influencers are just in it trying to make money.

0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:39.240
<v Speaker 1>But some of them are very creative with good ideas.

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Have you encountered any of that.

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Uh, yeah, they're not life changing ideas by any means. Actually,

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I there was one kid in New

0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 2>York that really was a very wonderful you could tell

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 2>what a deep soul. He was prob twenty four years

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 2>old and he just has one question, and that question

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:12.880
<v Speaker 2>is what makes you confident? And and it's a it's

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 2>a pretty interesting question. He has a lot of people

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.280
<v Speaker 2>following because you know, he talks to people on the

0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 2>street that are not trying to pitch anything and people

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>like me that are, and and we all kind of,

0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, stumble through the answer. And I think he

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 2>hit something very human about you know, because what makes

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 2>you confident, and you're like, oh shit, it's a fleeting thing.

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't happen all the time. But when I am confident,

0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 2>it's maybe because of these few things. You know, that

0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.000
<v Speaker 2>kid I think is he's doing something extraordinary because he's

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe helping people, you know.

0:15:52.360 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, as you've referenced, the business has completely changed. So song,

0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 1>let's focus on this because you're going on tour, etc.

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.720
<v Speaker 1>How long ago did you write this song?

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's maybe been five months. Sometimes I have

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 2>a song for a year before anybody hears it.

0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So in this particular case, you write the song

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.600
<v Speaker 1>in five months, five months ago. In the back of

0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>your mind, are you saying, I'm going to use this

0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:26.520
<v Speaker 1>to promote the tour?

0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, the truth is I I wrote you know,

0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 2>seventy or eighty songs and hence the practice, right, So,

0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.560
<v Speaker 2>and then I finally hit the weekend and that felt

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>like this is the record I'm supposed to make. So

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 2>once that song happened, it was It wasn't this is

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 2>the song. It was I finally found where I can

0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.360
<v Speaker 2>drill now for oil like and that happens with a

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of records, like when we made Save me San Francisco.

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 2>It was a song called I Got You because I

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.359
<v Speaker 2>wrote Forever and Ever and I wrote a song with

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.199
<v Speaker 2>a guy named Kevin who is in better than Ezra,

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 2>and we wrote this song I Got You, and I

0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.159
<v Speaker 2>knew this is now where I'm supposed to drill. And

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 2>so soon after that I was able to write Hey,

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Soul's Sister, and a couple of other songs that people

0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 2>ended up caring about. The Weekend was the same thing,

0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:35.719
<v Speaker 2>except it's lasted this long through other songs that I've written.

0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.000
<v Speaker 2>So it became let's start here and then see where

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:40.320
<v Speaker 2>we go.

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're one of the few acts its started in

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.399
<v Speaker 1>the last century who was still with their major label.

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so a lot.

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Of people go independent.

0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:54.239
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.159
<v Speaker 1>The nature of deals is they need to get renewed.

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Usually when the act has a mile on them, the

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.880
<v Speaker 1>label doesn't want to renew it. So you talked about

0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 1>the old yelling record company head in the old days.

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.479
<v Speaker 1>How do you still end up on Columbia? What is

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 1>that experience today?

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:18.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, it's a pretty positive relationship because I

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.040
<v Speaker 2>don't want their money. They don't have to write me

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.159
<v Speaker 2>a big check for me to give them music. The

0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.000
<v Speaker 2>only thing that I need them for is to get

0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:33.040
<v Speaker 2>my music out there to people. And that's a very

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.600
<v Speaker 2>positive relationship for them as well, because they have the

0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.960
<v Speaker 2>resources to help me if they believe in what I'm doing.

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.400
<v Speaker 2>And so they continue to believe in what I'm doing,

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:49.639
<v Speaker 2>they can try to expose this music because it's to

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 2>their advantage as well. And then I don't really need

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 2>their money. Like if I'm a young artist and I

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.960
<v Speaker 2>really need to get through with a month or the

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 2>year and I'm asking for money all the time or whatever,

0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.960
<v Speaker 2>or if I'm the kind of guy that wants to

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.480
<v Speaker 2>make a million dollar album, like those days are not

0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 2>here anymore. There's no reason to spend a million dollars

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.000
<v Speaker 2>making an album. And so I'm just I'm a practical guy,

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:23.200
<v Speaker 2>and I think that practicality is probably refreshing to a

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 2>record label. And we have a great relationship because we

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 2>know what we expect from one another because we're all

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 2>grown ups.

0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.640
<v Speaker 1>However, there is a sales minimum that they like to see.

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:42.639
<v Speaker 1>It's not a specific number, it's more of a vibe. Yeah,

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 1>do you feel any pressure there?

0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.960
<v Speaker 2>No, because you know, in the last in the last year,

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:56.160
<v Speaker 2>we've reached like two billion streams on Hayesol's Sister, over

0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.359
<v Speaker 2>a billion on Drops of Jupiter, and just recently over

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 2>a billion on Drive By. So they have they have

0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.160
<v Speaker 2>great revenue coming in, or at least better than many

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.960
<v Speaker 2>other artists, and so they're I think, I think they

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 2>feel very confident in what they're already receiving from taking

0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 2>a chance on us earlier to like, you know, my

0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.960
<v Speaker 2>manager always says, never count Monahan out, like you never

0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:29.280
<v Speaker 2>know when something's gonna go.

0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay. And your personal view on streaming as opposed to

0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 1>the old model.

0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I've never criticized any change in the music industry from

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:59.160
<v Speaker 2>albums to cassettes to CDs to downloads to streaming. I'm

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 2>very fortunate that I started when I started. You know,

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.320
<v Speaker 2>we just did a Billy Joel tribute concert and Billy

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:07.640
<v Speaker 2>was there. And you know, Billy started at a time

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.080
<v Speaker 2>when if you sold ten million records, that's a whole

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.120
<v Speaker 2>hell of a lot of money. I've sold ten million records,

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 2>but it didn't equate into that kind of thing, and

0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.399
<v Speaker 2>and downloads were you know, that's a different kind of math,

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and streaming is a different kind of math. But the

0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.879
<v Speaker 2>more I bitch about things, the less time I have

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.959
<v Speaker 2>to actually go do the work. And so I just

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 2>feel for younger people who are debating whether being an

0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:43.200
<v Speaker 2>artist is their future or not, and making a living

0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.560
<v Speaker 2>is part of a choice for life. And I feel

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:52.480
<v Speaker 2>like the world of streaming and not making money from

0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:57.239
<v Speaker 2>hard copies of things may keep us from getting some

0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 2>of the artists that we would have gotten otherwise. That's

0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:01.760
<v Speaker 2>my only complaint.

0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:07.840
<v Speaker 1>You signed an original deal, did you have a manager

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:12.159
<v Speaker 1>or a lawyer who renegotiated rates? If streaming, if you

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.200
<v Speaker 1>own the track, you have to pay a small fee,

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.040
<v Speaker 1>and if you wrote the song, you get all the money.

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 1>Someone may not listen to you don't get any money now.

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Or you know, if a new act that's got a

0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of social media viewership, they might sign a deal

0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.640
<v Speaker 1>where they get fifty percent of the net. Has your

0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 1>deal been renegotiated?

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 2>My manager, Jonathan Daniel, who I think you know, has

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.080
<v Speaker 2>continued to renegotiate And the only reason we would continue

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.919
<v Speaker 2>to have a relationship with a record company at this

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:48.360
<v Speaker 2>point would be is if it's advantageous to me. And

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.639
<v Speaker 2>so I feel really confident that you know I have

0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I have a deal with Columbia Records. That's fitting for

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.160
<v Speaker 2>where I am in my career. If anyone ever asked

0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.600
<v Speaker 2>me to do like a three sixty deal and get

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.840
<v Speaker 2>a piece of my merchandise and touring, and we just

0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.440
<v Speaker 2>never would have continued a relationship in that matter.

0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.879
<v Speaker 1>Are you a student of the business.

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 2>No, not really. I'm a man of faith in the

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:28.399
<v Speaker 2>people who represent me. And there's no one more wonderful

0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 2>and brilliant really than Jonathan Daniel. He's a very smart man,

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 2>and his partner Bob mclenn is lovely and smart, and

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.040
<v Speaker 2>I just always feel like I'm being protected all the time.

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you get a deal with Columbia Records just before

0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:49.040
<v Speaker 1>the turn of the entry, Is anybody still working there

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:50.880
<v Speaker 1>who was there when you signed?

0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 2>I was just there as funny, I was just there

0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:58.160
<v Speaker 2>about a week and a half ago. And there were

0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:03.760
<v Speaker 2>like two women that were there early days, but everybody else,

0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:08.479
<v Speaker 2>everybody else has changed, and there were some people there

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:13.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty years ago, but not twenty eight years ago. So yeah,

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:16.120
<v Speaker 2>there were like two women that were there in the beginning,

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and then one radio guy and one radio girl who's

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 2>been there for at least twenty years. Lisa Sonken and

0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 2>it's fun, fun seeing them, and you know, there were

0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.680
<v Speaker 2>very few survivors, me included.

0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it weird though, that you have a longer tenure

0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:37.440
<v Speaker 1>than the people run in the company.

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 2>No, I think that that makes me want to be

0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 2>there even better, even more. I think as time moves

0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 2>on and changes, so does the people. You know, Like

0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the thing that I think inspires me mostly about making

0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:59.719
<v Speaker 2>music is young artists and even not young artists. But

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, I always mentioned Jay Cole's he's the best

0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 2>hip hop guy out there to me because I love

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:10.680
<v Speaker 2>him so much, but he keeps making great work. That's

0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:14.640
<v Speaker 2>an inspiring to me. And you know, at some point

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.399
<v Speaker 2>young people won't want to hear him, They'll want to

0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:21.440
<v Speaker 2>hear the new hip hop guy. And the same goes

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 2>for a record company. You know, it's not going to

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.560
<v Speaker 2>be run the same way now as it was when

0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.400
<v Speaker 2>you were selling hard albums. This is streaming. So these

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:33.719
<v Speaker 2>are kids that graduated with like computer science degrees, Like

0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 2>it's a different game. So I think they need to keep,

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, making sure that the people that are sitting

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>in those pubicles or in those chairs are going to

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 2>shows and communicating with artists are hip to what's happening

0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:49.119
<v Speaker 2>in their world?

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 1>And what do you find interesting intriguing about j Cole.

0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:57.879
<v Speaker 2>I just think he's so smart, he's so good at

0:25:57.920 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>what he does, and I don't know, he just seems

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:06.000
<v Speaker 2>like my kind of guy, like I'd want to be

0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:06.680
<v Speaker 2>friends with him.

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Many rockers are anti hip hop. Why is it just

0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Ja Pole or are you really into hip hop?

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:20.400
<v Speaker 2>No? I love Kendrick and Drake, and I mean there's

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>so many of them, but you know, those three in particular,

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 2>I think are just very gifted. Twenty one Savage is great.

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what there is to dislike about hip hop.

0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Well did you get into hip hop your own way

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.240
<v Speaker 1>or did one of your kids really turn you.

0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 2>On to it? No, it was definitely me because when

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:47.399
<v Speaker 2>we do workouts, I make them listen to it. Like

0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:51.320
<v Speaker 2>my son, who's fourteen, he just wants to listen to

0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 2>every heavy metal band around, like we listened to We

0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 2>just went and saw a Black Label Society. His favorite

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:03.440
<v Speaker 2>guitar player is Zach Wilde, like he's he's not in

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:06.600
<v Speaker 2>my world of hip hop. So I definitely found my

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 2>own way.

0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so many acts who started in the last century

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:19.120
<v Speaker 1>who can sell out arenas. Most of them don't even

0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:23.560
<v Speaker 1>make new music. Okay, Doobie Brothers put out a record

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:28.080
<v Speaker 1>every couple of years, but most of them they find

0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:32.560
<v Speaker 1>it too frustrating in that there used to be a

0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:36.959
<v Speaker 1>level of ubiquity and you have had that level, you know,

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:41.200
<v Speaker 1>you talk Drops of Jupiter, Marry Me, etc. We're people

0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:46.120
<v Speaker 1>probably know Meat Virginia than any Taylor Swift saw and

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 1>that's because it's a different era maybe. So to what

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:55.080
<v Speaker 1>degree when you sit down is it to write? Is

0:27:55.119 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>it frustrating knowing that in the tower of Babel Society

0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 1>the reach will probably be limited.

0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, we do really good business, but it's

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:12.359
<v Speaker 2>never big enough. You know when I hear about people

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:16.280
<v Speaker 2>playing stadiums and I long for that, you know, someone

0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:18.520
<v Speaker 2>like Billy Joel, Like I was, just like I said,

0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 2>in New York doing Billy Joel tribute. And when he

0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:25.480
<v Speaker 2>was out with Elton, Elton kept making new records and

0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:27.960
<v Speaker 2>he was like, Billy, you should make more records, and

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:31.280
<v Speaker 2>he said, Elton, you should make less. But Billy Joel

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:35.400
<v Speaker 2>and Elton John wrote two hundred number one. Like it's

0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of like Paul McCartney making a new record right now.

0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:41.240
<v Speaker 2>It's like he doesn't have to. He can go play

0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:44.160
<v Speaker 2>an arena or a stadium or whatever he likes. I

0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:48.920
<v Speaker 2>don't really have that. I don't have that level of

0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:52.120
<v Speaker 2>what they've got. So, first of all, there's a part

0:28:52.120 --> 0:28:56.080
<v Speaker 2>of me that's competitive enough with me and perhaps that

0:28:56.400 --> 0:29:01.160
<v Speaker 2>something I do can still break through and somehow, maybe

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.440
<v Speaker 2>there's a way for me to sell out Wembley one day.

0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:07.840
<v Speaker 2>I have to keep believing that because it's helped me

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 2>continue since the whole band started. The second reason that

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 2>I want to keep creating is I started this band

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:21.080
<v Speaker 2>with four guys. We weren't close friends. None of those

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 2>guys are in this band anymore, and for much of

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the big moments of the band, they were here. And

0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 2>now I'm with my closest friends and I think I'm

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>making really good work. Unfortunately for them, I'm much older

0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:40.560
<v Speaker 2>than when those other songs hit, but I still feel

0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 2>like I want them to experience what I got to experience,

0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 2>and that's an important part of this for me.

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 1>So the dream is still there. Oh yeah, you're not saying,

0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:54.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, I got to pay for my boat, so

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 1>I got to do now dates this summer, no let's

0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:00.560
<v Speaker 1>go back to an earlier thing. You say you wanted

0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:05.800
<v Speaker 1>to be positive optimism. Are you an even killed guide?

0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever get depressed? Oh yeah.

0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm originally from Erie, Pennsylvania, So I have as much

0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 2>rage inside me as you ever want to pull out,

0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Like it's an endless well. But I've also got the

0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 2>most amazing wife in the world, who's like, what's there

0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:29.240
<v Speaker 2>to be mad about? Like, you're not a kid anymore,

0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 2>you don't you don't have to be mad at anybody,

0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:36.800
<v Speaker 2>And she's right. So I just try to be psyched

0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:41.800
<v Speaker 2>as much as I can, Like I hittingly complain all

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:44.520
<v Speaker 2>the time to my band, but they know that it's

0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:47.480
<v Speaker 2>a it's a joke because like what a great life

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:53.200
<v Speaker 2>I have. So I definitely get upset and disappointed and depressed,

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:57.360
<v Speaker 2>and I just try to leave. I try to leave

0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:04.360
<v Speaker 2>very little room to get bummed out. Like my expectations

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 2>have changed so much since I started this career. I

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.360
<v Speaker 2>don't really expect Columbia Records is going to make the

0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:16.680
<v Speaker 2>weekend a huge hit. It would be a beautiful surprise.

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 2>But I've also got to go out there on TikTok

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:22.600
<v Speaker 2>and do all that. So the fact that I'm not expecting.

0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Really anything from them helps me not be disappointed in them,

0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 2>because I have to go do the work anyway, and

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 2>so I might as well enjoy it.

0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about this rage being from Erie, Pennsylvania.

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I was the last of seven kids,

0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:47.760
<v Speaker 2>and in a town like that at the time, if

0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:54.080
<v Speaker 2>you weren't an elite athlete or an elite student, there

0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:58.840
<v Speaker 2>was very little opportunity for you. And that doesn't feel

0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 2>good to who is, you know, a creative sort. And

0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>so then I moved to Los Angeles and I was

0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:13.400
<v Speaker 2>in a bad relationship and we had a child, and

0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, then the anger just continues to move forward.

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.000
<v Speaker 2>How frustrating it is to try to raise a family,

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.240
<v Speaker 2>have a full time job as a house painter in

0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco, and try to play every free show you

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:32.760
<v Speaker 2>can to get noticed. And so that anger for no

0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:37.200
<v Speaker 2>one paying attention builds up for a long time, from

0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>childhood through early adultism and until I finally meet my

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:46.360
<v Speaker 2>wife and she was like, you gotta be less mad

0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 2>about stuff. You're gonna be all right.

0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, your wife helped you. Did you go to therapy too?

0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 2>I did a lot of that early days. Yep, I

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.960
<v Speaker 2>went to a great therapist for many years who helped

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.200
<v Speaker 2>me kind of appreciate what I've got instead of what

0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:05.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't.

0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:10.680
<v Speaker 1>And what was the motivation to go to the therapist.

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, I knew that I needed to leave a marriage

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.320
<v Speaker 2>and didn't have the tools to do it in a

0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:22.120
<v Speaker 2>way that would protect my children. And secondly, one of

0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:24.360
<v Speaker 2>the first things I said to her was I am

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.680
<v Speaker 2>currently a successful musician, which is what I always dreamt about,

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:32.240
<v Speaker 2>and I am never happy. And so she made me

0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:36.040
<v Speaker 2>stand up and she goes now bend over and then

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 2>she started clapping. She just said, you just to you

0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:42.480
<v Speaker 2>just took your first bow, and I was like, yeah,

0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I kind of needed to do that, I think. So

0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:47.880
<v Speaker 2>she helped me with a lot of those things, and

0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I still use her to get through certain things.

0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you talk about this time in your personal life,

0:33:57.000 --> 0:34:01.720
<v Speaker 1>which obviously had turmoil in it. Were you also not

0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:03.800
<v Speaker 1>happy with your business life?

0:34:04.760 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 2>No, I was not happy in the band that we

0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:10.120
<v Speaker 2>were in. It was you know, we had a lot

0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:14.640
<v Speaker 2>of rules to protect each other, but I wasn't being protected.

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:18.360
<v Speaker 2>The biggest rule was we cannot right outside of the band,

0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:23.680
<v Speaker 2>and that was not a rule to protect me. That

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:27.120
<v Speaker 2>was a rule to protect everybody else. And so as

0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:33.839
<v Speaker 2>time moved on, I became more resenting these guys, and

0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:38.840
<v Speaker 2>so that being in a bad relationship, trying to raise kids,

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:42.680
<v Speaker 2>moving from a full time painting job to a full

0:34:42.719 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 2>time touring job, which was rutal because you know, you're

0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:51.680
<v Speaker 2>not making any money, being in a van with guys

0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:55.799
<v Speaker 2>that excuse me, I felt it very difficult to be

0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 2>with most times. There was not a lot of joy

0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 2>going on. And I was sober for all those years,

0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 2>so everything was crystal clear to me, and I could

0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:11.560
<v Speaker 2>see all the problems and felt like I wasn't in

0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:15.280
<v Speaker 2>control to fix them.

0:35:15.560 --> 0:35:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Was part of the therapy, learning how to adjust your

0:35:20.320 --> 0:35:24.719
<v Speaker 1>band situation, whether it be writing out or getting rid

0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:26.399
<v Speaker 1>of members or anything like that.

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know it. I naturally started to write by myself,

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:47.319
<v Speaker 2>and one member removed himself because he felt like he

0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:51.160
<v Speaker 2>wasn't being paid attention, paid enough attention to writing wise,

0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>And then the next person had to be removed because

0:35:55.920 --> 0:36:00.200
<v Speaker 2>he was creating a big problem within the band. So

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:01.560
<v Speaker 2>now there's just three of us.

0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:05.400
<v Speaker 1>A big problem because of drugs, ratitude or ability.

0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was it was addiction stuff, and it was

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:13.160
<v Speaker 2>just it was becoming too much for us. So now

0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.240
<v Speaker 2>there's three of us left. When we get new people

0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:21.000
<v Speaker 2>to come in, new managers and new everything, and it was, boy,

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:26.480
<v Speaker 2>it was just a rocky, rocky road. So I mean,

0:36:26.480 --> 0:36:32.200
<v Speaker 2>there's so much story to it. But the therapy helped

0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 2>me to try to work on me, because I was

0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:40.680
<v Speaker 2>really wanting everybody else to work on themselves to fix

0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:44.480
<v Speaker 2>my problem. And I think the closer I got to

0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:50.360
<v Speaker 2>like fixing my problem, which was end a relationship, be

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:55.839
<v Speaker 2>okay with success, be okay with who you surround yourselves with,

0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 2>knowing that you have a choice. And so I went

0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and made a solo record, which was my way of

0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 2>putting the band in time out. And it was not

0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:08.720
<v Speaker 2>the right solo record and it was not the right move.

0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:12.839
<v Speaker 2>Had I, you know, had Jonathan Daniel in my life,

0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 2>he would have definitely kept me from doing that. But

0:37:16.680 --> 0:37:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I did it, and that was a good opening for

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 2>me to start writing with other people. And that's when

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:24.280
<v Speaker 2>I started to really spread out. And so all those

0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 2>songs on all those records, it was me writing with

0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:31.879
<v Speaker 2>people in New York and London and you know, all

0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:35.040
<v Speaker 2>over the country, all over the world. And then I

0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:40.120
<v Speaker 2>was happier and the band was successful, so they were

0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 2>not upset because they were having a good life. But

0:37:46.160 --> 0:37:52.640
<v Speaker 2>then other resentment comes in and on all sides, and

0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:56.719
<v Speaker 2>so eventually, you know, it was just like, you guys

0:37:56.760 --> 0:37:58.640
<v Speaker 2>are not going down the same road I want to

0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 2>go down, so let's not be together in the best

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 2>possible way. And so I think everyone was paid handsomely

0:38:10.200 --> 0:38:15.080
<v Speaker 2>to go their own way, and I continued to have

0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:17.600
<v Speaker 2>the time of my life trying to create things that

0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:20.840
<v Speaker 2>people care about and maybe it matters to their lives.

0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Going back to the solo album, was it the wrong

0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:28.359
<v Speaker 1>solo album or you shouldn't have made a solo album?

0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Addle I was it was I needed to make a

0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 2>solo album. I don't I don't think I would have

0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>been kept from that. But it was the wrong album.

0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:42.400
<v Speaker 2>It was it was basically like a little bit more

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:45.920
<v Speaker 2>of an R and B train record, which was like

0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:50.839
<v Speaker 2>why why? What was the purpose? And the purpose really

0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:53.400
<v Speaker 2>was to get away from the band, But that's a

0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:56.000
<v Speaker 2>terrible reason to spend a half a million dollars to

0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:58.560
<v Speaker 2>make a record that you know doesn't do well. Like

0:38:59.239 --> 0:39:04.319
<v Speaker 2>it was useful thinking and the right record might have

0:39:04.560 --> 0:39:07.319
<v Speaker 2>done some good but I know in Europe, you know,

0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.920
<v Speaker 2>people really still love that record, but there's you know,

0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:14.360
<v Speaker 2>forty of them, so I feel like it was just

0:39:15.040 --> 0:39:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I needed some guidance.

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.800
<v Speaker 1>So when that record failed commercially, how did you handle

0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:21.680
<v Speaker 1>it emotionally?

0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Not well? Hm, he's not good. But then I picked

0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:30.480
<v Speaker 2>up the pieces and started writing the Save Me San

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Francisco album. And the people that I was writing with

0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:38.600
<v Speaker 2>were in the Crush office, just like using space in

0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the Crush office.

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Crush Management, that's your management company. Yeah, just for those

0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 1>people who don't know, Yeah, Crushes.

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 2>Our management company. And I ended up writing with a

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.720
<v Speaker 2>guy named Sam Hollander. Loved Sam. He's a dear friend.

0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:58.200
<v Speaker 2>And I also wrote with Butch Walker, who's now playing

0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:00.399
<v Speaker 2>and Train. He's been a dear friend for a long

0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:03.560
<v Speaker 2>time and has been managed by Jonathan and Crush for

0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:07.120
<v Speaker 2>since the beginning. He was their first client. And I

0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:12.759
<v Speaker 2>think both Butcher and Sam started talking to Jonathan and saying, hey,

0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:16.560
<v Speaker 2>that that's one of us, and I think he's writing

0:40:16.600 --> 0:40:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a really great record, so you should help him out

0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. And Jonathan never comes in he's like

0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 2>I'll manage you. He's always more like, maybe I could

0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:27.319
<v Speaker 2>listen to some of your songs. And because I would

0:40:27.400 --> 0:40:30.040
<v Speaker 2>pull him aside at the water cooler and be like, man,

0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:33.160
<v Speaker 2>I could use any help you can give me because

0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.240
<v Speaker 2>I had just left a manager and needed to figure

0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:43.359
<v Speaker 2>out where to go. And he was like, well, let's

0:40:43.400 --> 0:40:45.480
<v Speaker 2>listen to your songs. So he listened to seventy two

0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:48.200
<v Speaker 2>songs and one of them was Hey, Soul's Sister, and

0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:52.600
<v Speaker 2>he was like, this song's pretty interesting. He's like, let's

0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.839
<v Speaker 2>let's let's get somebody to, you know, help you finish this.

0:40:56.960 --> 0:40:58.880
<v Speaker 2>And and then he was like, if you get a

0:40:58.880 --> 0:41:04.520
<v Speaker 2>haircut like Pete Wentz, maybe I'll even manage you. And

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>so Train was the first band that they took on

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:13.480
<v Speaker 2>that was, you know, a seasoned or not in the

0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:18.160
<v Speaker 2>genre of music that that Fall Up Boy and Panic

0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:20.840
<v Speaker 2>at the Disco and Boys like Girls. That was a

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:26.239
<v Speaker 2>very specific region of music and age. So we were

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:28.480
<v Speaker 2>the first things that they took on, and they really

0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:32.960
<v Speaker 2>revived our career and then you know, the rest has

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:34.920
<v Speaker 2>just been kind of fun.

0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you justified about Jonathan Daniel a few times, and

0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:51.919
<v Speaker 1>without making it specific, what's it there between a good

0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:59.799
<v Speaker 1>manager and a bad manager? I?

0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:05.959
<v Speaker 2>Well, I have a specific story, but I'm not sure

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:12.160
<v Speaker 2>if it will get me in trouble. Okay, I'll just

0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:22.640
<v Speaker 2>focus on the positive. Jonathan is someone who I've shared

0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 2>stories with about other people who have managed my career

0:42:30.080 --> 0:42:34.719
<v Speaker 2>and the way they went about it, how lost I was,

0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:39.319
<v Speaker 2>and that I just really needed, you know, kind of

0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:46.360
<v Speaker 2>an emotional hug. And he has such a good way

0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 2>of when he sees that you're in trouble, whether it's

0:42:51.440 --> 0:42:57.440
<v Speaker 2>business or personal, he makes it his mission to solve

0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:05.919
<v Speaker 2>the puzzle. It's he would never make an artist feel like, well, look,

0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:11.200
<v Speaker 2>this is what you asked for. And he and I

0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:16.560
<v Speaker 2>have had many conversations about all of the ways that

0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:20.640
<v Speaker 2>you can handle people, and the way he handles people

0:43:22.080 --> 0:43:31.640
<v Speaker 2>is with, you know, a very fatherly yet close friendship

0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:38.160
<v Speaker 2>type of manner where he almost thrives on the problem

0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:42.600
<v Speaker 2>only because he knows he can fix it or solve

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:46.839
<v Speaker 2>it or help you solve it. And that's a wonderful

0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:51.680
<v Speaker 2>cat to have in your life. Somebody who if you

0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:57.239
<v Speaker 2>complain about something, doesn't take the complaint and think less

0:43:57.280 --> 0:44:01.960
<v Speaker 2>of you. He just tries to change the way you're thinking.

0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Like I remember one time I was in CSI, New York,

0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Soul's sister who was on the show. I was an

0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:12.160
<v Speaker 2>actor in the show, and Kim Kardashian was in the

0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:17.560
<v Speaker 2>show with me, and Kim put this at the time

0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:21.560
<v Speaker 2>as Twitter put this tweet out and named almost everybody

0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:24.160
<v Speaker 2>in the show who was going to be in it

0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:29.160
<v Speaker 2>with her except for Train and I Paul Jonathan, and

0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.160
<v Speaker 2>I was just so hurt by it. I was so

0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:35.120
<v Speaker 2>bummed out. And he just said, man, you just think

0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:39.759
<v Speaker 2>about the wrong shit. I needed to hear simply that,

0:44:40.360 --> 0:44:43.160
<v Speaker 2>and I do. I think about the wrong shit sometimes.

0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:45.960
<v Speaker 2>But he never made me feel bad for it. He

0:44:46.080 --> 0:44:48.680
<v Speaker 2>was just like, that's dumb. Move on, let's go. We

0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:52.120
<v Speaker 2>got more stuff to do. I need that kind of guidance,

0:44:52.680 --> 0:44:59.560
<v Speaker 2>like you can't follow yourself down a rabbit hole of

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:04.799
<v Speaker 2>like self loathing or disappointment, Like there's more fun to have.

0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Let's go.

0:45:07.120 --> 0:45:09.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back to Eerie. What did your parents

0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:10.560
<v Speaker 1>do for a living?

0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:16.439
<v Speaker 2>My mom was she worked for a place called Erie's Magnetics,

0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:21.360
<v Speaker 2>which was a huge magnetic company, and she was she

0:45:21.560 --> 0:45:26.839
<v Speaker 2>was in like the buying and selling of products and

0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.919
<v Speaker 2>she but she raised six kids before she got a job,

0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:32.879
<v Speaker 2>and then I was born, and she got a job.

0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:38.280
<v Speaker 2>My father was a clothing salesman and a haberdasher haberdasher,

0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:43.799
<v Speaker 2>and he was a very funny man, and I learned

0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:45.279
<v Speaker 2>a lot of great things from both of them.

0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:49.799
<v Speaker 1>So what's the age range? If you're the youngest, your

0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:51.920
<v Speaker 1>oldest sibling gets how much older than you?

0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:57.279
<v Speaker 2>My brother who passed away, I think would be seventy two,

0:45:57.440 --> 0:45:59.080
<v Speaker 2>he was the oldest, and then I have a brother

0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:05.600
<v Speaker 2>seventy one, seventy and then my sisters I think are

0:46:05.719 --> 0:46:16.719
<v Speaker 2>like sixty eight, sixty five, and sixty two.

0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:21.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you have there's a lot of kids. Whenever you

0:46:21.800 --> 0:46:26.600
<v Speaker 1>have more than one, especially three, frequently the youngest is

0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:31.400
<v Speaker 1>the baby treated differently in multiple ways. Was that a

0:46:31.400 --> 0:46:33.440
<v Speaker 1>factor you're growing up?

0:46:33.880 --> 0:46:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, My sisters babied me and took care of me

0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and my second brother, second oldest brother, Jackie. He's still

0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:47.239
<v Speaker 2>a very very close friend of mine who he was

0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:51.200
<v Speaker 2>a father figure to me, so like he was the

0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:55.280
<v Speaker 2>one playing catch with me and buying me baseball gloves,

0:46:55.360 --> 0:46:58.400
<v Speaker 2>and when he went to college, it was that was

0:46:58.480 --> 0:47:01.920
<v Speaker 2>my first taste of heartbreak, like having that guy leave

0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 2>the house.

0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:09.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're going to school. What kind of kid

0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:11.719
<v Speaker 1>are you? You know you're one of the group. You

0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:14.640
<v Speaker 1>play in sports? Are you the loner?

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:17.680
<v Speaker 2>No? I was obsessed with sports. I wanted to be

0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:20.600
<v Speaker 2>a professional baseball player. I loved Steve Garvey as my

0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:26.520
<v Speaker 2>favorite baseball player, and I, you know, I was okay

0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:29.560
<v Speaker 2>at it. I was, you know, pretty good at it

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:33.439
<v Speaker 2>until you know, you're fourteen, everybody's growing and you get

0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:36.240
<v Speaker 2>into high school and I'm like, okay, I can't compete anymore.

0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:39.439
<v Speaker 2>Basketball was never gray up, but I played all through

0:47:39.520 --> 0:47:42.960
<v Speaker 2>high school or grade school. And I played football through

0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:46.640
<v Speaker 2>my tenth year of high school and just got my

0:47:46.719 --> 0:47:51.240
<v Speaker 2>ass handed to me. So sports was out. I started

0:47:51.280 --> 0:47:56.160
<v Speaker 2>playing drums when I was in eighth grade, and you know,

0:47:56.920 --> 0:48:00.160
<v Speaker 2>no boys wanted to sing in front of girls, so

0:48:00.640 --> 0:48:03.080
<v Speaker 2>I had to start singing until we could find a singer.

0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:06.760
<v Speaker 2>And then it ended up being that I was pretty

0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:09.680
<v Speaker 2>all right at it. So and I found out that

0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:12.239
<v Speaker 2>girls liked singers anyway, So it worked out.

0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Well. You were in high school. Were you a popular guy?

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Were you the music guy? Oh that's the singer, that's

0:48:18.280 --> 0:48:21.399
<v Speaker 1>the guy in the band. Were you class president? I mean,

0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:22.080
<v Speaker 1>how did work?

0:48:22.160 --> 0:48:25.800
<v Speaker 2>No? I wasn't all those I was my one claim

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:30.120
<v Speaker 2>to fame is that when I went from a Catholic

0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:34.080
<v Speaker 2>high school after tenth grade to a public high school,

0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:37.640
<v Speaker 2>I just got to meet so many different people that

0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I never had access to because at a Catholic all

0:48:41.000 --> 0:48:44.319
<v Speaker 2>boys high school, you know, you're dealing with kids that are,

0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:48.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, playing every sport at a high level. They're

0:48:48.400 --> 0:48:51.759
<v Speaker 2>academic at a high level, and they're also you know,

0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:55.839
<v Speaker 2>very sweet at a high level and very shitty at

0:48:55.880 --> 0:48:58.760
<v Speaker 2>a high level. So when I went to a public school,

0:48:58.800 --> 0:49:01.440
<v Speaker 2>I got to see so many any variations of kids

0:49:01.440 --> 0:49:03.080
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't get to see at an all boys

0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Catholic school. And I just kind of liked everybody, and

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I got on with everybody. Whether you were an athlete

0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:13.800
<v Speaker 2>or a musician, or you know, you were a chess

0:49:13.800 --> 0:49:16.799
<v Speaker 2>player or a cheerleader, it didn't really matter to me.

0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:19.600
<v Speaker 2>I would sing songs in class for everybody until the

0:49:19.640 --> 0:49:22.479
<v Speaker 2>teacher came in. And so my one claim to fame

0:49:22.600 --> 0:49:25.160
<v Speaker 2>is that they voted me prom king in my senior year.

0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:28.560
<v Speaker 2>So that was it was my big high school moment.

0:49:30.239 --> 0:49:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, did you have a band in high school that

0:49:34.000 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 1>played out?

0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:40.439
<v Speaker 2>We started in high school and then you know those

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:45.920
<v Speaker 2>guys in high school ended up, you know, having different

0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:49.920
<v Speaker 2>things to focus on, and by then older kids in

0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Eerie started to see me sing. So I was in

0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:57.480
<v Speaker 2>bands with twenty five year olds at seventeen, and you know,

0:49:57.600 --> 0:50:01.640
<v Speaker 2>the like twenty five thirty year olds. They seemed ancient

0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:06.239
<v Speaker 2>at the time, but they were five to ten ten

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:08.839
<v Speaker 2>years older than me. And that's when I really got

0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:11.200
<v Speaker 2>my start. And the reason that I ever moved to

0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.759
<v Speaker 2>LA was because I knew so badly I needed to

0:50:14.800 --> 0:50:16.399
<v Speaker 2>get out of Erie. And I was in a cover

0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:20.759
<v Speaker 2>band called Rogue's Gallery. We were playing a bar called Sherlocks,

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:25.840
<v Speaker 2>and that evening Cher played the small arena in town

0:50:26.600 --> 0:50:29.279
<v Speaker 2>and Cher's band came in after the show and saw

0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:33.480
<v Speaker 2>us play, and a guy named David Shelley, who has

0:50:33.520 --> 0:50:35.320
<v Speaker 2>passed away a few years ago. He was for a

0:50:35.360 --> 0:50:37.920
<v Speaker 2>guitar player and he pulled me aside and he gave

0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:40.120
<v Speaker 2>me his phone number and he said, you got the thing,

0:50:41.239 --> 0:50:42.879
<v Speaker 2>so when you get to LA, give me a call.

0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:46.640
<v Speaker 2>So I packed my shit went to LA and I

0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:50.000
<v Speaker 2>never connected with him, not once, but he got me

0:50:50.320 --> 0:50:52.959
<v Speaker 2>motivated enough to go because it was the first time

0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:57.080
<v Speaker 2>somebody that knew on some level what they were talking

0:50:57.080 --> 0:51:00.480
<v Speaker 2>about had faith in what I did, and that was

0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 2>all I needed.

0:51:02.600 --> 0:51:05.399
<v Speaker 1>So you graduate from high school, where does that leave

0:51:05.440 --> 0:51:06.200
<v Speaker 1>you with school?

0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I went to a college class for about a month,

0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:15.880
<v Speaker 2>and one day I looked at the teacher and I said,

0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:18.520
<v Speaker 2>I think I gotta go to I think I gotta

0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:21.840
<v Speaker 2>leap down. I don't think I can be here anymore.

0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 2>And she was super nice. She was like, well, you

0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.080
<v Speaker 2>can always come back. You're good at it, because I

0:51:27.080 --> 0:51:29.880
<v Speaker 2>think I would have taken college much more seriously than

0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:34.000
<v Speaker 2>high school. And I just I needed a move. And

0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:39.560
<v Speaker 2>music was too. It was just too uh, it was

0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:42.200
<v Speaker 2>too big in my art to pretend it wasn't there.

0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:46.440
<v Speaker 1>So how long after you graduate from high school do

0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:48.440
<v Speaker 1>you move to La.

0:51:48.680 --> 0:51:51.040
<v Speaker 2>I was nineteen, so I had been out of high

0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:55.480
<v Speaker 2>school for a year, and I literally like, I, Yeah,

0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:57.279
<v Speaker 2>I got out of high school and waited a year.

0:51:57.320 --> 0:52:00.320
<v Speaker 2>I went to La. I was there from nineteen caned

0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:04.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty two, moved back to Erie to have a baby,

0:52:05.560 --> 0:52:06.160
<v Speaker 2>and I just like.

0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:09.719
<v Speaker 1>That this woman you had the baby with, did you

0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:11.799
<v Speaker 1>meet her in Erie or did you meet her in La?

0:52:12.120 --> 0:52:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Here?

0:52:14.239 --> 0:52:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And so when you went to La did she come

0:52:16.040 --> 0:52:16.279
<v Speaker 1>with you?

0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:17.439
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:23.680
<v Speaker 1>So you moved to La the only person you know

0:52:23.760 --> 0:52:27.600
<v Speaker 1>you don't contact. Hey, you got to have a car,

0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:31.080
<v Speaker 1>and b you have to have money. So you were

0:52:31.080 --> 0:52:34.279
<v Speaker 1>making enough money as a musician to get out.

0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:42.480
<v Speaker 2>I literally went to Los Angeles on an airplane with

0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:50.520
<v Speaker 2>four hundred dollars and a friend who moved there a

0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.400
<v Speaker 2>year before I did, who He said I could stay

0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:59.360
<v Speaker 2>with him until I found an apartment. I also had

0:53:01.120 --> 0:53:07.000
<v Speaker 2>my brother in law. His stepfather was working a construction

0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 2>site in Los Angeles. So I begged the guy for

0:53:10.120 --> 0:53:13.200
<v Speaker 2>a job, not knowing how to do anything, and so

0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:16.720
<v Speaker 2>I worked at a construction site, slept on this kid's

0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:20.239
<v Speaker 2>floor for like two minutes, and found an apartment in Hollywood,

0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:26.759
<v Speaker 2>where gunfire and helicopters were a many.

0:53:29.239 --> 0:53:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back a step before this guitarist in

0:53:32.600 --> 0:53:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Shares Band says, you have the thing. Were you just

0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:39.760
<v Speaker 1>playing in a band or did you have a dream

0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:42.200
<v Speaker 1>to play at the level you're now at.

0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I had a dream always to get to another level,

0:53:45.440 --> 0:53:48.799
<v Speaker 2>So moving to LA was a chance to, like, you know,

0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember all the magazines that I would put

0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:55.520
<v Speaker 2>my name in or look at, like Music Weekly or

0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:58.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean there were four or five of them.

0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:02.480
<v Speaker 1>The recycler, music connection.

0:54:02.360 --> 0:54:05.000
<v Speaker 2>Music connection, that's the big one that I used. Yeah,

0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:08.720
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, I would meet all kinds of people.

0:54:10.120 --> 0:54:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Finally got a car, so I was driving to every

0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:19.839
<v Speaker 2>audition with kids that you know. You know, it was

0:54:20.040 --> 0:54:24.040
<v Speaker 2>just really really hard thinking that somebody out there is

0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:25.960
<v Speaker 2>going to be who I'm supposed to do this with.

0:54:27.280 --> 0:54:32.160
<v Speaker 2>And it didn't work. So the reason I met, the

0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:35.560
<v Speaker 2>reason train started is that my ex wife was a

0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:39.640
<v Speaker 2>school teacher and my first the guy started the band

0:54:39.680 --> 0:54:45.640
<v Speaker 2>with was a sign musician in La and his wife

0:54:45.680 --> 0:54:48.600
<v Speaker 2>was a school teacher, and the girls met and introduced us,

0:54:49.239 --> 0:54:53.719
<v Speaker 2>and his record contract was not going very well, and

0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:57.400
<v Speaker 2>so we hung out a couple of times. Not you know,

0:54:57.440 --> 0:54:59.319
<v Speaker 2>I went and saw his band and I thought they

0:54:59.360 --> 0:55:02.880
<v Speaker 2>were good. I moved back to eerie and he calls

0:55:02.960 --> 0:55:05.200
<v Speaker 2>me and he's like, let's move to San Francisco and

0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:07.359
<v Speaker 2>see if the two of us can get this thing going.

0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:11.399
<v Speaker 2>And I got it going, and so you know, I'm

0:55:11.400 --> 0:55:14.240
<v Speaker 2>grateful that I got to meet him and start to think.

0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:17.600
<v Speaker 1>Out, Okay, how long were you in La.

0:55:18.280 --> 0:55:21.719
<v Speaker 2>And it's like two and a half years, and of.

0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:26.080
<v Speaker 1>That time, how long was the woman you married in La?

0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:28.839
<v Speaker 2>That amount of time.

0:55:29.880 --> 0:55:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you spent this time in Los Angeles, although ultimately

0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:37.520
<v Speaker 1>you connected with the musician through your ex wife and

0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:41.120
<v Speaker 1>her friend. What was your state of mind for two

0:55:41.200 --> 0:55:43.879
<v Speaker 1>and a half years.

0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh, man, Like this is hard, Like I thought I

0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:51.520
<v Speaker 2>knew how to work hard, but this is hard hard.

0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:56.200
<v Speaker 2>But it was nothing compared to living it like then

0:55:56.400 --> 0:56:04.160
<v Speaker 2>moving to San Francisco, finding a paint job, having a

0:56:05.200 --> 0:56:10.160
<v Speaker 2>shoot one year old, and then playing music at night,

0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:15.240
<v Speaker 2>every single night for free so that people would pay attention.

0:56:16.040 --> 0:56:19.560
<v Speaker 2>That's another level of working hard. So I just you know,

0:56:20.200 --> 0:56:25.440
<v Speaker 2>if you have a plan B, you'll take it. If

0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I had a plan B, I would have taken it

0:56:27.120 --> 0:56:29.319
<v Speaker 2>a hundred times.

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay. When you were in LA, were you in any

0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:35.160
<v Speaker 1>bands or nothing ever? Worked?

0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I had a friend named Kevin who we would

0:56:38.080 --> 0:56:40.880
<v Speaker 2>write songs and get together all the time, but he

0:56:41.000 --> 0:56:44.680
<v Speaker 2>was always looking for like a bigger you know, everybody

0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:48.720
<v Speaker 2>the thing with LA sometime well at that time, because

0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:52.200
<v Speaker 2>everybody is like, you know, you'll do the thing with you,

0:56:52.360 --> 0:56:56.200
<v Speaker 2>but they're always looking for a better thing, and and

0:56:56.280 --> 0:57:00.120
<v Speaker 2>so it just it was just hard to find drummer

0:57:00.360 --> 0:57:04.120
<v Speaker 2>and bass players. And then those guys are they all

0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:06.759
<v Speaker 2>have three other bands that they're in, so I would

0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:09.040
<v Speaker 2>at least go see other bands so I could meet

0:57:09.080 --> 0:57:12.160
<v Speaker 2>other musicians. And I fell in love with the several

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:14.680
<v Speaker 2>of them and stayed friends with several of them over

0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:17.320
<v Speaker 2>the years, but none of them ever wanted me to

0:57:17.360 --> 0:57:21.160
<v Speaker 2>be their singer. And that's you know, it was like,

0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:23.640
<v Speaker 2>that's it was. It was tough. It felt like a

0:57:23.720 --> 0:57:26.560
<v Speaker 2>huge fail leaving Los Angeles.

0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:30.840
<v Speaker 1>And how long were you back in Eerie before you

0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:32.120
<v Speaker 1>went to San Francisco?

0:57:32.720 --> 0:57:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Maybe a year or if.

0:57:34.800 --> 0:57:38.520
<v Speaker 1>That, and you were doing what during that year?

0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it might have been a year. I was hanging

0:57:43.240 --> 0:57:46.680
<v Speaker 2>wallpaper and painting and trying to raise a little boy

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.320
<v Speaker 2>and and just grind men.

0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Were you playing music?

0:57:53.800 --> 0:57:56.600
<v Speaker 2>I started to sing with some friends of mine in

0:57:56.640 --> 0:58:01.280
<v Speaker 2>a band called Exit, and that was that was like whatever,

0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:04.480
<v Speaker 2>So no, no, not really, I just knew that I

0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:08.840
<v Speaker 2>needed At that point, I'm like twenty two years old

0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:12.680
<v Speaker 2>and thinking that I moved back to Erie and such

0:58:12.720 --> 0:58:15.800
<v Speaker 2>a small town and they're like, well, the best singer

0:58:15.840 --> 0:58:20.600
<v Speaker 2>of our time couldn't make it, and now he's back

0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.880
<v Speaker 2>and he probably thinks he's a big shot because he

0:58:24.920 --> 0:58:26.400
<v Speaker 2>went to LA And I was like, I need to

0:58:26.400 --> 0:58:28.120
<v Speaker 2>get out of here as soon as I can. This

0:58:29.640 --> 0:58:34.440
<v Speaker 2>is very un fun and so you know, moving to

0:58:34.480 --> 0:58:37.320
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco. I don't think there was another option for.

0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Me, Okay, because at the time and to this day,

0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:44.880
<v Speaker 1>little things have changed in the twenty first century. San

0:58:44.920 --> 0:58:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Francisco is the eppisiteer of music in the sixties. You're

0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:52.720
<v Speaker 1>now moving there much later. When you went to La

0:58:52.840 --> 0:58:55.760
<v Speaker 1>that's where it was happening. Didn't happen for you, that's right,

0:58:56.160 --> 0:58:58.440
<v Speaker 1>But you must have really wanted to get out of

0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Erie because going to San France Cisco was kind of

0:59:00.920 --> 0:59:01.840
<v Speaker 1>going sideways.

0:59:02.080 --> 0:59:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes, But here's this is the interesting part of my

0:59:05.920 --> 0:59:10.800
<v Speaker 2>observation of Los Angeles and San Francisco. Los Angeles is

0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:16.360
<v Speaker 2>now when I was there, like the peak of hair

0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:24.280
<v Speaker 2>dress up rock, right like Cinderella and Rat and like

0:59:24.440 --> 0:59:27.920
<v Speaker 2>all the stuff is blowing up right before a grunge

0:59:28.520 --> 0:59:33.560
<v Speaker 2>destroys it. And I moved to San Francisco, where the

0:59:33.640 --> 0:59:40.800
<v Speaker 2>scene really isn't anywhere except coffee houses are like the

0:59:40.840 --> 0:59:46.440
<v Speaker 2>big thing, and on every corner is a coffee house

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:51.120
<v Speaker 2>with somebody playing guitar for free because there's so many

0:59:51.120 --> 0:59:53.920
<v Speaker 2>places to do it. And the coffee shop owner or

0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the little pub. They want entertainment for free and they

0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:01.200
<v Speaker 2>can have open mic nights and everything. So that was

1:00:01.240 --> 1:00:04.080
<v Speaker 2>a huge trend at the time. The open mic night.

1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:08.760
<v Speaker 2>It was like the peak when we got to San Francisco,

1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>like we could walk two blocks and play five places,

1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and we did.

1:00:16.520 --> 1:00:19.680
<v Speaker 1>So you're there. It's just you and that guy. Is

1:00:19.720 --> 1:00:21.080
<v Speaker 1>it a duo at that point?

1:00:21.240 --> 1:00:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's me and a guy named Rob Hotchkiss. Yeah,

1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:26.480
<v Speaker 2>we're a duo. So I played percussion, he plays guitar.

1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:30.360
<v Speaker 2>We're writing all the songs. We're singing his songs and

1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:34.080
<v Speaker 2>the other songs that we wrote together. And then the

1:00:34.160 --> 1:00:36.760
<v Speaker 2>other guy who was in his band in La comes.

1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:39.280
<v Speaker 2>His name is Jimmy Stafford, so he joins us them

1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:42.760
<v Speaker 2>we're a trio. Then his bass player from the previous

1:00:42.840 --> 1:00:48.040
<v Speaker 2>band brings a drummer from Durango, Colorado that they were

1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:50.080
<v Speaker 2>in a band together, so they join us, and now

1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:53.480
<v Speaker 2>we're a five piece band. And that was Trent.

1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, like time, it's a five piece band? Are you

1:00:58.960 --> 1:00:59.800
<v Speaker 1>still playing for?

1:01:01.160 --> 1:01:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we got after a couple of months, we got

1:01:07.080 --> 1:01:10.680
<v Speaker 2>like a couple of paying gigs for like five hundred bucks.

1:01:11.400 --> 1:01:13.320
<v Speaker 2>We'd have to bring all of our own stuff. They

1:01:13.320 --> 1:01:15.480
<v Speaker 2>would have a pa for us, they would mix us,

1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:20.080
<v Speaker 2>we'd play for an hour or whatever, and then we

1:01:20.120 --> 1:01:22.919
<v Speaker 2>would you know, still play for free, like go play

1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:24.840
<v Speaker 2>wherever you can for free and try to get paid

1:01:24.840 --> 1:01:28.200
<v Speaker 2>whenever you can. At the time, we're also making demos

1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:31.760
<v Speaker 2>all the time, and some of the guys are friends

1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:35.360
<v Speaker 2>with a few of the fellas in the Count and Crows,

1:01:36.920 --> 1:01:40.960
<v Speaker 2>so we ask if we can use their storage facility

1:01:41.040 --> 1:01:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to like rehearse in in East Bay, and they say yeah,

1:01:45.360 --> 1:01:48.520
<v Speaker 2>And so like Dave Bryson is still a Palamine and

1:01:48.600 --> 1:01:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Jim Bojess who was not in the Drummer at the time,

1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:53.840
<v Speaker 2>he's he is now, but he's a good friend of mine,

1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:57.120
<v Speaker 2>And so those guys let us use their facilities. So

1:01:57.160 --> 1:01:59.760
<v Speaker 2>we would write songs, and then the more demos we had,

1:01:59.800 --> 1:02:02.560
<v Speaker 2>the more opportunity we have to make money, because we

1:02:02.600 --> 1:02:05.360
<v Speaker 2>would send the demos to places and we'd start playing

1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:10.960
<v Speaker 2>places like the Sweetwater in Mill Valley. Still no shot

1:02:11.120 --> 1:02:14.320
<v Speaker 2>at all of playing the filmore yet, but we'd play

1:02:14.400 --> 1:02:17.919
<v Speaker 2>Slims and then we start to get a big enough

1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:23.240
<v Speaker 2>following that now we have songs, enough demos and songs

1:02:23.840 --> 1:02:28.880
<v Speaker 2>and a following that, we can start looking for a manager.

1:02:29.840 --> 1:02:31.760
<v Speaker 2>And so the Count and Crows guys put us in

1:02:31.760 --> 1:02:35.440
<v Speaker 2>touch with their lawyer, and the lawyer takes us on

1:02:35.520 --> 1:02:39.720
<v Speaker 2>as a lawyer because you know, there's no there's nothing

1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:43.400
<v Speaker 2>you can't fail because you're not really spending any money

1:02:44.160 --> 1:02:48.160
<v Speaker 2>until you make money. And so he tries to connect

1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:52.800
<v Speaker 2>us with managers from every walk of life, and no

1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:54.960
<v Speaker 2>one wanted anything to do with us except for a

1:02:55.000 --> 1:02:58.440
<v Speaker 2>guy named Arnie Postelnik, and he was at Bill Grahant Management,

1:02:58.680 --> 1:03:01.120
<v Speaker 2>so he was a local man. I took a song.

1:03:09.360 --> 1:03:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when there's no money, it's usually very hard to

1:03:14.720 --> 1:03:19.520
<v Speaker 1>keep the band together. Yep, Well it was your experience.

1:03:19.720 --> 1:03:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I had a full time job as a house painter

1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:29.280
<v Speaker 2>until I left that job to make my own house

1:03:29.320 --> 1:03:33.440
<v Speaker 2>painting company, and it was very successful. I bought a house.

1:03:33.880 --> 1:03:38.120
<v Speaker 2>I had two children at the time. Well maybe she

1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:42.680
<v Speaker 2>wasn't born yet, so I still have one. So I'm

1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:50.040
<v Speaker 2>hiring my band to paint houses with me. None of

1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:51.040
<v Speaker 2>them were good painters.

1:03:51.720 --> 1:03:55.960
<v Speaker 1>When you're cutting these demos, who's the engineer and producer?

1:03:56.600 --> 1:03:59.959
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, early days, Dave Bryson from the Count

1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Crows helped us out a few times he had a studio.

1:04:04.720 --> 1:04:08.720
<v Speaker 2>We'd go to places like tiny telephone and you know,

1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:15.240
<v Speaker 2>any anywhere that we could. Producers were like, we found

1:04:16.120 --> 1:04:19.240
<v Speaker 2>a great sound guy that we loved, Egyptian guy named

1:04:19.240 --> 1:04:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Hannie who I think he mixed us live and tried

1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:26.800
<v Speaker 2>to engineer some stuff a couple of times. So whoever,

1:04:27.160 --> 1:04:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Like it didn't matter, Like we just wanted to get

1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:32.000
<v Speaker 2>songs on tape.

1:04:32.240 --> 1:04:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the band is togethered now from the time of

1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:41.520
<v Speaker 1>high school on. Are you always writing songs or you

1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:44.240
<v Speaker 1>only writing songs really when you're in San Francisco.

1:04:44.640 --> 1:04:47.800
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm writing early, but they're bad. I mean that

1:04:48.440 --> 1:04:53.040
<v Speaker 2>whole ten thousand hours thing. It's no lie. You got

1:04:53.040 --> 1:04:57.560
<v Speaker 2>to get it in. So I've written many, many bad songs,

1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:02.960
<v Speaker 2>but didn't start to get better at it until I

1:05:03.000 --> 1:05:07.160
<v Speaker 2>was in San Francisco. I started to So when I

1:05:07.200 --> 1:05:08.920
<v Speaker 2>was in high school, the only thing I was good

1:05:08.920 --> 1:05:13.560
<v Speaker 2>at is writing poetry. Like I was not very good

1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:18.600
<v Speaker 2>at class. My grades were not excellent. But when my

1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:22.160
<v Speaker 2>English teacher would read my poetry, she'd be like, this

1:05:22.200 --> 1:05:25.520
<v Speaker 2>is there's thing, like this is a thing you should write,

1:05:25.560 --> 1:05:27.560
<v Speaker 2>like whatever you have to do to write, and so

1:05:27.600 --> 1:05:31.960
<v Speaker 2>that ended up being songs because I cared so much

1:05:32.040 --> 1:05:36.640
<v Speaker 2>about feeling something, and my father was obsessed with great

1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:40.400
<v Speaker 2>lyric writers like Johnny Mercer was his favorite writer. He

1:05:40.520 --> 1:05:43.000
<v Speaker 2>might be my favorite lyric writer because of how unusual

1:05:43.120 --> 1:05:46.400
<v Speaker 2>he wrote. And so I cared so much about the

1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:49.320
<v Speaker 2>English language that that was the one thing I would

1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>put time into. So by the time I went to

1:05:51.040 --> 1:05:54.880
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco, I had already cared as much as you

1:05:54.920 --> 1:05:59.600
<v Speaker 2>can care about wanting to write something beautiful. So I

1:05:59.640 --> 1:06:00.600
<v Speaker 2>just had to do the work.

1:06:02.840 --> 1:06:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, irrelevant of the well the credits. Let's say, in

1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:10.320
<v Speaker 1>the first album, is that a way for people to

1:06:10.320 --> 1:06:13.400
<v Speaker 1>get paid? And you really wrote the songs or did

1:06:13.440 --> 1:06:16.120
<v Speaker 1>everybody really contribute the first album?

1:06:16.160 --> 1:06:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Everyone definitely contributed. I have always written all the melodies

1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:24.040
<v Speaker 2>and lyrics, but all that music was definitely written by

1:06:24.040 --> 1:06:24.959
<v Speaker 2>those guys.

1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So if you get this guy as a manager

1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:33.840
<v Speaker 1>with Bill Graham, he's the manager, how long till it

1:06:33.880 --> 1:06:35.040
<v Speaker 1>becomes something more?

1:06:36.080 --> 1:06:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Till the band becomes something more?

1:06:38.960 --> 1:06:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's try to put a day down. If you

1:06:41.080 --> 1:06:44.360
<v Speaker 1>can remember, what's the year we're in When you get.

1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:55.640
<v Speaker 2>The manager, Oh boy, I would say, man ninety ninety five.

1:06:56.880 --> 1:06:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask a different way. How long from the

1:06:59.760 --> 1:07:03.000
<v Speaker 1>time you get the manager to the first album was released?

1:07:05.280 --> 1:07:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Maybe three years because Arnie could not get us a

1:07:10.120 --> 1:07:16.360
<v Speaker 2>record deal. He nobody was interested and we didn't sound

1:07:16.400 --> 1:07:21.680
<v Speaker 2>like anybody else. Yeah, grunge was really popular, but then

1:07:21.840 --> 1:07:23.720
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, like Hoodie and the Blowfish and

1:07:23.800 --> 1:07:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Dave Matthews start to come out, so there is a

1:07:26.760 --> 1:07:31.960
<v Speaker 2>trend towards singer songwriter more. But nobody wanted anything to

1:07:32.000 --> 1:07:34.640
<v Speaker 2>do with us. But we had a friend at Columbia

1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Records who was in the He was in the promotion department,

1:07:38.640 --> 1:07:42.440
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't in the A and R department, and he

1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:48.919
<v Speaker 2>pitched us to Columbia and they were like, okay, let's

1:07:48.960 --> 1:07:51.680
<v Speaker 2>get him here. From San Francisco to New York. They

1:07:51.680 --> 1:07:56.720
<v Speaker 2>flew us to New York. We did a show, thinking

1:07:56.760 --> 1:07:58.480
<v Speaker 2>the next day we'd wake up and go cide a

1:07:58.520 --> 1:08:03.520
<v Speaker 2>record deal, and they were like, Don Einer was the president,

1:08:03.560 --> 1:08:05.640
<v Speaker 2>and he said, I didn't say anything special last night,

1:08:07.240 --> 1:08:10.160
<v Speaker 2>So we go home. My parents have flown from Erie,

1:08:10.200 --> 1:08:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Pennsylvania to San Francisco to basically congratulate me on my

1:08:14.040 --> 1:08:17.280
<v Speaker 2>new record contract that I did not go home with

1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:24.120
<v Speaker 2>and then we had rehearsal the next week and I said,

1:08:25.160 --> 1:08:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why we're a band. We're not from

1:08:28.040 --> 1:08:30.800
<v Speaker 2>high school together or friends or any of that shit.

1:08:31.600 --> 1:08:33.639
<v Speaker 2>So we got to figure out what we want out

1:08:33.640 --> 1:08:38.120
<v Speaker 2>of this, and we need a common goal. So he

1:08:38.200 --> 1:08:41.639
<v Speaker 2>wrote on this chalkboard it was you know, pretty whatever,

1:08:42.920 --> 1:08:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and everybody would write their goal down, and one common

1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:51.080
<v Speaker 2>goal was we want to make a record. We might

1:08:51.200 --> 1:08:54.799
<v Speaker 2>want to make an album, so we all had different

1:08:54.880 --> 1:09:00.639
<v Speaker 2>jobs to go borrow money, go find a producer, go

1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:04.400
<v Speaker 2>find a place to record, and we raised twenty five

1:09:04.439 --> 1:09:07.800
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars from friends and family. Our manager was not

1:09:08.160 --> 1:09:13.080
<v Speaker 2>able to help us do that, and we went and

1:09:13.120 --> 1:09:19.000
<v Speaker 2>made our own album with those songs and an A

1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:22.680
<v Speaker 2>and R guy at Columbia Records ford it so, the

1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:24.960
<v Speaker 2>same label that said they didn't see anything special. So

1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:29.360
<v Speaker 2>he had to pitch this new album to Don Einer,

1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:33.920
<v Speaker 2>who didn't really care about us, so he pitched it

1:09:33.960 --> 1:09:37.840
<v Speaker 2>as Project X so he would relabel everything Project X,

1:09:38.880 --> 1:09:43.479
<v Speaker 2>and finally Don agreed to give us a chance and

1:09:44.160 --> 1:09:48.080
<v Speaker 2>put us at Aware Records, so they started a relationship

1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:51.439
<v Speaker 2>with the Greg Latterman at a Ware Records. So Greg

1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:54.960
<v Speaker 2>was going to be the quarterback. Columbia Records would be

1:09:55.160 --> 1:09:59.280
<v Speaker 2>the umbrella label. My manager hated this idea because he

1:09:59.320 --> 1:10:01.439
<v Speaker 2>wanted us to be on a major label, and we

1:10:01.520 --> 1:10:05.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't care one bit. And so they were able to

1:10:05.200 --> 1:10:07.680
<v Speaker 2>get Meet Virginia and a song called Free on a

1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:15.160
<v Speaker 2>bunch of college compilations, and they started working Meet Virginia

1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:19.559
<v Speaker 2>at radio and it took them forever, but we sold

1:10:19.600 --> 1:10:21.640
<v Speaker 2>a million albums and it gave us a chance to

1:10:21.720 --> 1:10:22.200
<v Speaker 2>keep going.

1:10:23.960 --> 1:10:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the album that you recorded for twenty grand twenty five, yeah,

1:10:30.800 --> 1:10:35.120
<v Speaker 1>is the identical album that Columbia puts out.

1:10:35.880 --> 1:10:41.479
<v Speaker 2>We added one song with Matt. I don't remember Matt's

1:10:41.520 --> 1:10:45.000
<v Speaker 2>last name, Matt. He was such a big producer back then,

1:10:45.160 --> 1:10:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Matt Wallace, So Matt Wallace Records a new song that

1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.519
<v Speaker 2>we wrote because Columbia wanted a little more tempo on

1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:56.280
<v Speaker 2>the record. I don't even remember what the name of

1:10:56.320 --> 1:10:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the song is. So we added one song to it.

1:10:58.439 --> 1:11:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Other than that, it's the ex album.

1:11:01.760 --> 1:11:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I love that album. That album doesn't sound like

1:11:06.880 --> 1:11:11.120
<v Speaker 1>it's cut for twenty grand, you know, it sounds like

1:11:11.360 --> 1:11:15.640
<v Speaker 1>it is a major label album. Why did it end

1:11:15.760 --> 1:11:17.800
<v Speaker 1>up being of such quality?

1:11:19.920 --> 1:11:23.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, there was no auto tune back then. I

1:11:23.160 --> 1:11:25.200
<v Speaker 2>had to re sing. I wanted to quit during that

1:11:25.320 --> 1:11:29.040
<v Speaker 2>record so bad. I mean, the guy producing us, you know,

1:11:29.080 --> 1:11:31.040
<v Speaker 2>he had never done it before, and he was as

1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:34.519
<v Speaker 2>lovely as he could have been. Uh, but I would

1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:37.280
<v Speaker 2>sing and before I would even sing the third word,

1:11:37.360 --> 1:11:41.799
<v Speaker 2>he'd be like, pitchy, stop tape, man, this is visery.

1:11:43.800 --> 1:11:48.439
<v Speaker 2>So we just worked so hard, man, I mean every

1:11:48.479 --> 1:11:51.519
<v Speaker 2>bit of this. I'm exhausted from telling you this story,

1:11:51.600 --> 1:11:55.280
<v Speaker 2>like this is this is so hard, and we just

1:11:55.360 --> 1:11:58.320
<v Speaker 2>cared so much. We we would like put pennies on

1:11:58.439 --> 1:12:01.519
<v Speaker 2>snare drums and you know, try to get everything out

1:12:01.560 --> 1:12:02.439
<v Speaker 2>of everything we could.

1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Did you believe these songs were good?

1:12:10.800 --> 1:12:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Well? I think we believed from watching our audience that

1:12:14.920 --> 1:12:20.000
<v Speaker 2>we had something. I'm never sure of anything, Like I'm

1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:26.760
<v Speaker 2>not a very confident fellow when it comes to creating.

1:12:27.000 --> 1:12:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Like if I create something, I need a lot of backup.

1:12:31.360 --> 1:12:35.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, if I play something for my wife and

1:12:35.040 --> 1:12:38.240
<v Speaker 2>she's like I love this, I need fifteen other people

1:12:38.280 --> 1:12:42.400
<v Speaker 2>to say the same thing before I believe it. And

1:12:42.439 --> 1:12:45.800
<v Speaker 2>so people were loving those songs, so I felt like

1:12:45.840 --> 1:12:47.519
<v Speaker 2>there had to be something special there.

1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:53.000
<v Speaker 1>So for me, the two best songs out of the

1:12:53.080 --> 1:12:55.879
<v Speaker 1>record are Free and I Am.

1:12:56.479 --> 1:13:01.800
<v Speaker 2>I Am. Yeah, that was the first song we ever wrote. Really. Yeah.

1:13:01.880 --> 1:13:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Did you think Meet Virginia was a single or did

1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the people on the business side say it was a single?

1:13:08.720 --> 1:13:11.439
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe we thought it was a single because

1:13:11.479 --> 1:13:16.639
<v Speaker 2>it was so weird and weird Wins. We didn't really

1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:19.559
<v Speaker 2>put those pieces together, that weird Wins, but like, hey,

1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Soul Sisters, that sounds weird, man, and I think that

1:13:24.120 --> 1:13:26.840
<v Speaker 2>was the beginning of us finding a thing, a lane

1:13:26.920 --> 1:13:31.680
<v Speaker 2>of like we're not anybody else, Like Meet Virginia is

1:13:31.760 --> 1:13:33.160
<v Speaker 2>just different. It's weird.

1:13:34.920 --> 1:13:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Do you think going with ladder Men helped or

1:13:40.840 --> 1:13:41.479
<v Speaker 1>didn't help?

1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:47.920
<v Speaker 2>No, it helped im mentally, like he cared a lot Greg.

1:13:50.600 --> 1:13:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Greg had a lot of other projects going on, so

1:13:54.600 --> 1:13:56.720
<v Speaker 2>much of that time. I was not a fan of

1:13:56.760 --> 1:14:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Greg because I felt like he wasn't keeping his eye

1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:06.479
<v Speaker 2>on the real prize, which was trained. I feel like

1:14:06.600 --> 1:14:09.679
<v Speaker 2>he was wanting some of his other things to exceed

1:14:11.000 --> 1:14:14.640
<v Speaker 2>where we were going, and that bummed me out. So

1:14:14.720 --> 1:14:17.519
<v Speaker 2>I felt like he needed to be managed a little bit.

1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:21.439
<v Speaker 2>Now that I know Greg better, I know that he's

1:14:21.479 --> 1:14:23.920
<v Speaker 2>a methodical guy and he cares a lot about everything

1:14:23.960 --> 1:14:25.760
<v Speaker 2>that he puts his hands on, and I know that

1:14:25.880 --> 1:14:28.519
<v Speaker 2>he really cared a lot about my band and the

1:14:28.560 --> 1:14:32.040
<v Speaker 2>project and making sure it was successful because it was

1:14:32.080 --> 1:14:34.120
<v Speaker 2>not going to just be successful for us, It was

1:14:34.160 --> 1:14:36.640
<v Speaker 2>going to be successful for him. He needed to have

1:14:36.680 --> 1:14:39.400
<v Speaker 2>a good relationship with Columbia Records to have a future

1:14:39.400 --> 1:14:39.720
<v Speaker 2>with them.

1:14:40.479 --> 1:14:44.200
<v Speaker 1>When we met previously, which I mentioned before we started

1:14:44.200 --> 1:14:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the podcast, we were on the street in front of

1:14:48.320 --> 1:14:55.559
<v Speaker 1>the Viper Room where Tim Divine. Tim Vine said, who

1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:59.160
<v Speaker 1>signed you? Because I knew, I mean, I know Divine forever,

1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:03.120
<v Speaker 1>but let latterman it hype me that it was his record,

1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:06.720
<v Speaker 1>and Divine this little pissed off and he brought you.

1:15:07.000 --> 1:15:08.720
<v Speaker 1>There were two other members of the band, z Dio

1:15:08.720 --> 1:15:14.120
<v Speaker 1>who signed you? That is Jim Okay, this first record happens?

1:15:14.439 --> 1:15:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Does the same manager continue? Yes, the first record, as

1:15:21.439 --> 1:15:23.880
<v Speaker 1>I say, it was worked a long time. Ultimately gets

1:15:23.880 --> 1:15:27.200
<v Speaker 1>on MDV. I got to ask two questions. One, why

1:15:27.320 --> 1:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>is the band named train?

1:15:30.840 --> 1:15:34.240
<v Speaker 2>Rob? When we started the band, you know, thinking about names,

1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:37.200
<v Speaker 2>he listened to an interview one of the members of

1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Echo and the Bunnyman said there was nothing romantic about America,

1:15:41.760 --> 1:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>and Rob said, I feel like the most romantic thing

1:15:45.360 --> 1:15:49.639
<v Speaker 2>about America is the locomotive. Uh. And he was right.

1:15:49.680 --> 1:15:55.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a romantic, beautiful image. And so we just worked

1:15:55.000 --> 1:15:56.800
<v Speaker 2>with Train for a while and didn't think we'd ever

1:15:56.840 --> 1:15:59.040
<v Speaker 2>get the name. But there was no other band called Train.

1:16:00.240 --> 1:16:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the artwork from the first album, that theme continues.

1:16:05.560 --> 1:16:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about that.

1:16:07.240 --> 1:16:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the theme. Uh. So the artist was from Orange County.

1:16:11.080 --> 1:16:14.160
<v Speaker 2>His name is Tommy Doherty. Kind of a crazy person,

1:16:14.280 --> 1:16:19.439
<v Speaker 2>but a beautiful artist like this guy's work was just tremendous.

1:16:20.000 --> 1:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>And Charlie, our bass player at the time, found this

1:16:23.000 --> 1:16:26.160
<v Speaker 2>piece of art, which is a massive like it was

1:16:26.240 --> 1:16:32.360
<v Speaker 2>probably twelve by ten this painting, and it the boy

1:16:32.479 --> 1:16:36.960
<v Speaker 2>looked like a king and a jester at the same time.

1:16:37.560 --> 1:16:40.000
<v Speaker 2>And we felt like that's who we are as a band.

1:16:40.800 --> 1:16:46.320
<v Speaker 2>We feel like we're special and royal, but were also

1:16:46.720 --> 1:16:52.120
<v Speaker 2>really stupid and full of gags. And it was a

1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:54.559
<v Speaker 2>great combination that represented who we were.

1:16:56.400 --> 1:16:58.920
<v Speaker 1>And how did you decide to continue? It is to

1:16:59.000 --> 1:17:00.599
<v Speaker 1>be in You know, a lot of people don't.

1:17:01.120 --> 1:17:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, the second record has a boy with a crown

1:17:04.000 --> 1:17:08.640
<v Speaker 2>because we Brendan O'Brien took on that record to produce it.

1:17:08.720 --> 1:17:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Because Limp Biscuit bailed on it the last minute, so

1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:14.600
<v Speaker 2>he had a spot open for us, and it was

1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:17.240
<v Speaker 2>just good timing. And we had dinner at his house

1:17:17.760 --> 1:17:19.799
<v Speaker 2>and we saw a piece of art that was hanging

1:17:19.840 --> 1:17:23.639
<v Speaker 2>in his dining room and it was the same artist

1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:28.919
<v Speaker 2>who the cover of Drops of Jupiter that he created,

1:17:30.320 --> 1:17:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Hernandez I think his last name is, and he was

1:17:33.960 --> 1:17:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Tony Hernandez from Atlanta, and so we looked at all

1:17:37.760 --> 1:17:39.160
<v Speaker 2>of his art and we were like, Oh, there's a

1:17:39.160 --> 1:17:41.880
<v Speaker 2>boy in a crown. This will be perfect for the

1:17:41.880 --> 1:17:42.960
<v Speaker 2>theme moving forward.

1:17:43.040 --> 1:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>And that's why, Okay, first record, Little Engine that could. Hey,

1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:53.639
<v Speaker 1>how much you're gigging? And did you make any money?

1:17:55.240 --> 1:17:58.599
<v Speaker 2>You know, when I got a record advance, I paid

1:17:58.640 --> 1:18:02.280
<v Speaker 2>off all my credit card. That was it. But I

1:18:02.400 --> 1:18:05.479
<v Speaker 2>was losing tons of money on that tour because I

1:18:05.520 --> 1:18:09.000
<v Speaker 2>went from owning a painting company to making four hundred

1:18:09.000 --> 1:18:14.559
<v Speaker 2>dollars a week. That was not sustainable and it caused

1:18:14.560 --> 1:18:19.080
<v Speaker 2>a lot of problems financially and personally. And that record

1:18:19.160 --> 1:18:22.599
<v Speaker 2>advance was long gone because I had so much debt

1:18:22.680 --> 1:18:28.200
<v Speaker 2>by the time the record went out. And like I said,

1:18:28.000 --> 1:18:31.240
<v Speaker 2>we sold a million copies, but that money is you know,

1:18:32.600 --> 1:18:35.400
<v Speaker 2>a long term streamline that takes a while to get

1:18:35.439 --> 1:18:42.160
<v Speaker 2>to you, and these gigs, these tours were like, you know,

1:18:42.200 --> 1:18:46.120
<v Speaker 2>we were trying to just break even and try not

1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:48.360
<v Speaker 2>to make Columbia Records pay for us to be on

1:18:48.400 --> 1:18:50.559
<v Speaker 2>the road, which a lot of record companies did at

1:18:50.600 --> 1:18:53.599
<v Speaker 2>the time, and now I don't know if they still

1:18:53.640 --> 1:18:56.360
<v Speaker 2>even do that. They probably do, but they probably want

1:18:56.360 --> 1:18:58.800
<v Speaker 2>a piece of the merch and everything else that comes

1:18:58.800 --> 1:19:02.639
<v Speaker 2>with it. But we just we didn't make much money,

1:19:02.680 --> 1:19:05.839
<v Speaker 2>and we gigged a lot a lot, and every radio

1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:08.080
<v Speaker 2>station in the country. We'd be there at six in

1:19:08.120 --> 1:19:10.920
<v Speaker 2>the morning. We'd do a show that night and drive

1:19:11.000 --> 1:19:14.920
<v Speaker 2>to the next place to do the same thing. There's

1:19:14.960 --> 1:19:17.759
<v Speaker 2>a really interesting story that I'll share with you quickly

1:19:17.840 --> 1:19:25.639
<v Speaker 2>about Meet Virginia breaking So Meet Virginia starts being played

1:19:25.680 --> 1:19:28.960
<v Speaker 2>on Alice in San Francisco, and it started to get

1:19:29.000 --> 1:19:32.240
<v Speaker 2>a buzz and it started to go, but we couldn't

1:19:32.240 --> 1:19:36.320
<v Speaker 2>get the more important stations on the East coast to

1:19:36.400 --> 1:19:39.320
<v Speaker 2>take it on, like ninety nine next in Atlanta wouldn't

1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:41.360
<v Speaker 2>take it. But there was another one called the X

1:19:42.040 --> 1:19:45.919
<v Speaker 2>and that was in Birmingham, Alabama, and the program director's

1:19:46.000 --> 1:19:50.000
<v Speaker 2>name was Dave. I can't think of Dave's last name.

1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Dave had a guy working for him named Scott Register.

1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:02.920
<v Speaker 2>So Scott has stercle you know Scott Register, of course.

1:20:03.800 --> 1:20:08.120
<v Speaker 2>So reg has a show on Sundays only called Regis

1:20:08.200 --> 1:20:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Coffee House. Absolutely, so he's like, hey, can you guys

1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:14.880
<v Speaker 2>come in? Because we played Birmingham on a Saturday. He

1:20:14.960 --> 1:20:17.519
<v Speaker 2>was like, can you come into my show tomorrow and

1:20:17.600 --> 1:20:20.479
<v Speaker 2>play live on Regis Coffee House. They're like, no, we

1:20:20.520 --> 1:20:26.920
<v Speaker 2>have to be in New Orleans that evening. Katrina is

1:20:26.960 --> 1:20:30.719
<v Speaker 2>heading towards New Orleans, so we can't go to New Orleans.

1:20:30.840 --> 1:20:32.960
<v Speaker 2>And we're like, Reg, we can come in to play

1:20:33.240 --> 1:20:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Regis Coffee House. He's like awesome, So we all go in.

1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:38.719
<v Speaker 2>It's early in the morning, it's all taped, so he's

1:20:39.200 --> 1:20:42.040
<v Speaker 2>he can't get the gear to work, so he has

1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:44.760
<v Speaker 2>to call his boss, Dave, who doesn't want anything to

1:20:44.760 --> 1:20:47.720
<v Speaker 2>do with train, to come in and set him up.

1:20:48.439 --> 1:20:51.200
<v Speaker 2>So he comes in. We do a bunch of songs

1:20:51.200 --> 1:20:53.519
<v Speaker 2>from the record, a bunch of Lead Zeppelin songs, and

1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Dave's like, I fucking love these guys. So he adds

1:20:57.080 --> 1:21:00.879
<v Speaker 2>meat Virginia and that's where it broke is Burnham, Alabama,

1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:05.680
<v Speaker 2>because that guy was breaking records every month, and without

1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:12.360
<v Speaker 2>that serendipitous thing happening, Katrina being a Sunday, him not

1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:14.200
<v Speaker 2>being able to get the gear to work. All of

1:21:14.240 --> 1:21:18.400
<v Speaker 2>that paid a huge part of me still being here.

1:21:26.120 --> 1:21:30.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, at what point do you decide it's time for

1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:34.000
<v Speaker 1>a new album? Is it the manager, is it the band,

1:21:34.280 --> 1:21:37.120
<v Speaker 1>is the label? Have you been writing songs? How does

1:21:37.160 --> 1:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>that go down?

1:21:38.400 --> 1:21:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all of the above. Like, you know, the more

1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:43.479
<v Speaker 2>music you can get out and the sooner you can

1:21:43.520 --> 1:21:45.960
<v Speaker 2>get it out, you know, you can capitalize on whatever

1:21:46.040 --> 1:21:50.559
<v Speaker 2>momentum you have. And we had an album done, you know,

1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:53.040
<v Speaker 2>after a while with Brendan, and it was called something

1:21:53.080 --> 1:21:56.519
<v Speaker 2>More that we had written on tour and then after

1:21:56.640 --> 1:22:00.759
<v Speaker 2>tour and drops the Jupiter is not on that record

1:22:00.760 --> 1:22:03.519
<v Speaker 2>because it hadn't been written. And Don Einer was like,

1:22:03.600 --> 1:22:06.439
<v Speaker 2>we don't have a first single, and you're like, we

1:22:06.520 --> 1:22:08.800
<v Speaker 2>have five erst singles. This is a great album, you know,

1:22:08.840 --> 1:22:12.760
<v Speaker 2>because we're all full of our own shit. And he's like,

1:22:12.800 --> 1:22:14.559
<v Speaker 2>you don't know a song that I can start this

1:22:14.680 --> 1:22:19.000
<v Speaker 2>out with. So my mother had passed away. I'm not

1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:22.360
<v Speaker 2>in a good place in my life at all grinding

1:22:22.400 --> 1:22:25.240
<v Speaker 2>to try to write songs. I go back to visit

1:22:25.360 --> 1:22:32.080
<v Speaker 2>in Erie, Pennsylvania. Don calls a meeting. He's about to

1:22:32.080 --> 1:22:34.720
<v Speaker 2>call me to New York because he wants to tell

1:22:34.760 --> 1:22:37.920
<v Speaker 2>me I have to start writing with other people. So

1:22:37.960 --> 1:22:40.679
<v Speaker 2>whatever your band rules are, they don't I don't care anymore.

1:22:42.439 --> 1:22:46.160
<v Speaker 2>So I go to bed one night and fifteen minutes

1:22:46.240 --> 1:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>later I wake up, I go downstairs and I write

1:22:48.920 --> 1:22:51.639
<v Speaker 2>all of Drops of Jupiter in fifteen minutes. I go

1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to a friend's house and cut a demo the next day.

1:22:54.920 --> 1:22:57.760
<v Speaker 2>The following day, I have to fly to New York.

1:22:58.800 --> 1:23:01.160
<v Speaker 2>My friend brings the CD over. He's like, there's something

1:23:01.200 --> 1:23:05.280
<v Speaker 2>special about this song. I go to New York. Don

1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:08.759
<v Speaker 2>starts giving me the talk, like, listen to these guys.

1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:10.759
<v Speaker 2>This is you know, if you had this song or whatever.

1:23:10.840 --> 1:23:13.280
<v Speaker 2>And he's gearing me up to tell me he's gonna

1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:15.400
<v Speaker 2>put me in a room with some people, and I go,

1:23:16.360 --> 1:23:18.960
<v Speaker 2>I wrote this song. I woke up from a dream.

1:23:19.000 --> 1:23:20.559
<v Speaker 2>If you want to hear this, And he was like,

1:23:21.240 --> 1:23:24.120
<v Speaker 2>this is where the magic ones come from. So he

1:23:24.160 --> 1:23:28.840
<v Speaker 2>puts it in, turns it up real loud, and by

1:23:28.840 --> 1:23:30.960
<v Speaker 2>the time it gets to plain Old Jane told a

1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:33.200
<v Speaker 2>story about a man he just lifts up his arms

1:23:33.240 --> 1:23:37.320
<v Speaker 2>and he goes fucking song of the Year. And that

1:23:37.479 --> 1:23:38.280
<v Speaker 2>was his first single.

1:23:40.040 --> 1:23:42.839
<v Speaker 1>How close was the demo to the finished record?

1:23:44.000 --> 1:23:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Very very close, except Chuck Levell on piano, He's a

1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:51.040
<v Speaker 2>whole other animal, like he gave it the bound bound

1:23:51.160 --> 1:23:55.400
<v Speaker 2>down like you know he he plays piano like a

1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:58.320
<v Speaker 2>drummer like he should, and uh, he gave it life.

1:23:59.040 --> 1:24:03.400
<v Speaker 2>How did Chuck get well his his recording abilities? He's

1:24:03.960 --> 1:24:08.200
<v Speaker 2>an incredible engineer, like he makes things sound incredibly good.

1:24:09.280 --> 1:24:13.000
<v Speaker 2>But the song was already arranged and done and the

1:24:13.120 --> 1:24:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Nona nons and everything. So the only change was that

1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:22.639
<v Speaker 2>this was when Almost Famous was out and a huge hit,

1:24:23.439 --> 1:24:27.439
<v Speaker 2>and all of Elton's songs were being reloved all over again,

1:24:27.479 --> 1:24:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and Paul Buckmaster did all those string arrangements. So Don

1:24:30.200 --> 1:24:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Einer was like, Paul Buckmaster has to be on this,

1:24:33.760 --> 1:24:37.560
<v Speaker 2>and so Paul, that string line was all Paul and

1:24:38.400 --> 1:24:39.559
<v Speaker 2>really important to it.

1:24:41.080 --> 1:24:44.800
<v Speaker 1>I want to go back a step. Mead Virginia ends

1:24:44.880 --> 1:24:47.160
<v Speaker 1>up on MTV. What was it like when you saw

1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:51.360
<v Speaker 1>the video for Mead Virginia? You know, it's like hearing

1:24:51.360 --> 1:24:52.360
<v Speaker 1>your song on the radio.

1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>It just always felt like a you know, a little

1:24:56.960 --> 1:25:00.360
<v Speaker 2>song in a big world. Like the video was little,

1:25:02.080 --> 1:25:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the concept of the song was little. It wasn't like

1:25:05.200 --> 1:25:09.040
<v Speaker 2>a you know, it's a beautiful day, you know, like

1:25:09.160 --> 1:25:12.120
<v Speaker 2>not one of those kind of songs it was. It

1:25:12.200 --> 1:25:15.800
<v Speaker 2>was just a quirky little song that just popped through

1:25:15.880 --> 1:25:16.479
<v Speaker 2>the surface.

1:25:17.760 --> 1:25:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Donnie says old song of the year. Are you

1:25:23.360 --> 1:25:26.440
<v Speaker 1>on the Train? Are you a believer or you a cynical?

1:25:26.479 --> 1:25:26.679
<v Speaker 2>Guy?

1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:28.559
<v Speaker 1>Said, well, at least I don't have to write with

1:25:28.600 --> 1:25:29.560
<v Speaker 1>other people.

1:25:29.280 --> 1:25:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Or what I am. I'm like, wow, I'm so relieved

1:25:34.840 --> 1:25:37.080
<v Speaker 2>that he thinks this is the song. And then I'm like,

1:25:37.200 --> 1:25:42.519
<v Speaker 2>this is so not the song. Like there's no song

1:25:42.560 --> 1:25:44.960
<v Speaker 2>out there like this song. This is not the song.

1:25:45.200 --> 1:25:46.960
<v Speaker 2>And so the first time I heard it, I was

1:25:47.000 --> 1:25:51.080
<v Speaker 2>actually in eerie driving home and I heard it on

1:25:51.160 --> 1:25:57.080
<v Speaker 2>a like a college radio station and it was four

1:25:57.200 --> 1:26:00.920
<v Speaker 2>minutes long, and I was like, no one's gonna like this.

1:26:01.200 --> 1:26:04.000
<v Speaker 2>And then the girl came on afterwards and she was like,

1:26:04.080 --> 1:26:06.840
<v Speaker 2>that's my new favorite song from Train. I think you're

1:26:06.840 --> 1:26:08.559
<v Speaker 2>gonna be hearing a lot of that one, and I

1:26:08.640 --> 1:26:11.600
<v Speaker 2>was like what And then and then it kind of

1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:12.160
<v Speaker 2>started to.

1:26:12.120 --> 1:26:20.599
<v Speaker 1>Go Okay, drops. The Jubiter was gigantic. Did you feel

1:26:20.640 --> 1:26:23.320
<v Speaker 1>that the band had made it? Did it change the

1:26:23.400 --> 1:26:26.360
<v Speaker 1>perception on the inside it?

1:26:26.560 --> 1:26:30.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, there was a moment where I felt like

1:26:30.680 --> 1:26:34.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe we had made it. We were in we were

1:26:34.040 --> 1:26:38.160
<v Speaker 2>in Oslo, and there was a festival happening, and we

1:26:38.160 --> 1:26:40.880
<v Speaker 2>were scheduled to play, you know, and at the time

1:26:40.920 --> 1:26:43.439
<v Speaker 2>of year, the sun doesn't go down, so it might

1:26:43.479 --> 1:26:46.400
<v Speaker 2>have been like midnight and I'm walking to my hotel

1:26:46.600 --> 1:26:52.360
<v Speaker 2>and I see Chris Martin and he's standing outside of

1:26:52.400 --> 1:26:57.040
<v Speaker 2>the hotel and I keep to myself because nobody knows

1:26:57.120 --> 1:26:59.720
<v Speaker 2>me and I don't want to gush all over the guy.

1:26:59.800 --> 1:27:04.240
<v Speaker 2>But I was loving the Coldplay stuff and I was

1:27:04.400 --> 1:27:06.519
<v Speaker 2>about to walk past him, and he just grabbed my

1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:09.760
<v Speaker 2>arm and he goes, hey, man, beautiful song. And I

1:27:09.840 --> 1:27:12.800
<v Speaker 2>was like, that's so cool. So instead of me going

1:27:12.880 --> 1:27:14.920
<v Speaker 2>beautiful song to him, he got me. And I was like,

1:27:15.200 --> 1:27:18.960
<v Speaker 2>should have done it first. So that's when I felt like,

1:27:19.040 --> 1:27:21.120
<v Speaker 2>maybe this is something okay.

1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:24.280
<v Speaker 1>The next album, Man's Calling Old Angels, How's that written?

1:27:26.080 --> 1:27:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Calling Old Angels was through my therapist because while I

1:27:30.439 --> 1:27:34.200
<v Speaker 2>was in there telling her how unhappy I was in

1:27:34.240 --> 1:27:38.240
<v Speaker 2>my success, she said we all are made up of

1:27:38.280 --> 1:27:42.240
<v Speaker 2>two things, and that's traders and angels. So it's time

1:27:42.280 --> 1:27:45.519
<v Speaker 2>to call your angels. And I was like, consider it stolen.

1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:50.960
<v Speaker 2>And then I wrote a song about trying to call

1:27:51.040 --> 1:27:57.760
<v Speaker 2>angels to help us through this stuff. Okay, we need

1:27:57.800 --> 1:27:59.360
<v Speaker 2>more than angels now, Bob.

1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:03.840
<v Speaker 1>That's true. Sure, that's a separate subject. So when do

1:28:03.880 --> 1:28:04.840
<v Speaker 1>you see any money?

1:28:07.479 --> 1:28:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Donnie helped us. He found a manager that he liked

1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to help us move forward.

1:28:14.840 --> 1:28:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, first wife, you say she gets all the money

1:28:20.320 --> 1:28:23.880
<v Speaker 1>other than child support? Was it one lump sum and

1:28:23.920 --> 1:28:25.920
<v Speaker 1>then going on? Or do you have to pay her forever?

1:28:26.760 --> 1:28:31.559
<v Speaker 1>It was for a very long time. Yeah, how do

1:28:31.600 --> 1:28:33.599
<v Speaker 1>you meet your second wife?

1:28:34.360 --> 1:28:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I left my marriage in October of two thousand and

1:28:39.160 --> 1:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>three and we did a residency tour where we were

1:28:46.640 --> 1:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>playing like three nights and like a dozen cities, and

1:28:54.600 --> 1:28:59.560
<v Speaker 2>we went to Seattle and played a place called the Crocodile.

1:28:59.600 --> 1:29:02.360
<v Speaker 2>This isn't May now. So I left my marriage in October,

1:29:03.040 --> 1:29:06.960
<v Speaker 2>went right to Australia, toured, came back and that's to May.

1:29:07.040 --> 1:29:10.560
<v Speaker 2>We're doing this residency tour. My last thing on my

1:29:10.680 --> 1:29:15.880
<v Speaker 2>mind is ever meeting anyone ever again ever? And my

1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:19.880
<v Speaker 2>tour manager comes in and before we go on and says, Hey,

1:29:19.920 --> 1:29:22.759
<v Speaker 2>there's a beautiful woman outside trying to get a ticket

1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:24.640
<v Speaker 2>for the show, but it's sold out. You want me

1:29:24.680 --> 1:29:26.559
<v Speaker 2>to let her in? And I was like, sure, I've

1:29:26.560 --> 1:29:31.840
<v Speaker 2>never done that before. That sounds fun. And so he

1:29:31.920 --> 1:29:33.960
<v Speaker 2>come back. He came back in and he's like, yeah,

1:29:34.120 --> 1:29:37.880
<v Speaker 2>she's with her mom, I think, but she's got a

1:29:38.000 --> 1:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>ring on her finger. So I was like, okay, well,

1:29:40.640 --> 1:29:42.960
<v Speaker 2>at least I got to see the show. Like I'm

1:29:43.040 --> 1:29:45.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm good, you know what I mean, Like, I've

1:29:45.240 --> 1:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>been through it.

1:29:46.040 --> 1:29:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:51.000
<v Speaker 2>So it was actually her mom that made her go

1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:53.680
<v Speaker 2>to the show. She's like, we're going in, and my

1:29:53.760 --> 1:29:56.360
<v Speaker 2>wife was like, I don't want to go to the show,

1:29:56.400 --> 1:29:58.599
<v Speaker 2>Let's just go to dinner. She's like, no, we have

1:29:58.680 --> 1:30:01.240
<v Speaker 2>to go see the show tonight. There's no tickets, Mom,

1:30:01.240 --> 1:30:04.120
<v Speaker 2>it's sold out. Doesn't matter, We'll find tickets. And the

1:30:04.200 --> 1:30:06.120
<v Speaker 2>only reason my wife was in town at the time,

1:30:06.160 --> 1:30:08.200
<v Speaker 2>she was living in San Diego, is because it was

1:30:08.240 --> 1:30:13.679
<v Speaker 2>her parents' anniversary. So they get in and I decide

1:30:14.520 --> 1:30:17.120
<v Speaker 2>after the first set of our show, I was like,

1:30:17.160 --> 1:30:18.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't care about the girl with the ring on

1:30:18.760 --> 1:30:21.599
<v Speaker 2>her finger. There's the most beautiful girl I've ever seen

1:30:21.600 --> 1:30:25.000
<v Speaker 2>out there. I want to talk to her anyway. So

1:30:25.080 --> 1:30:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I asked a friend of mine to go, I've never

1:30:28.800 --> 1:30:30.680
<v Speaker 2>done this in my career, to go ask her if

1:30:30.680 --> 1:30:36.280
<v Speaker 2>I could just say hi afterwards. So my friend sees her,

1:30:37.840 --> 1:30:40.320
<v Speaker 2>brings her to see me. I say hi to her

1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:43.240
<v Speaker 2>and her mom, same girl with the ring on her finger,

1:30:45.280 --> 1:30:48.519
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh, boy, you got you're engaged.

1:30:48.560 --> 1:30:52.439
<v Speaker 2>And she's like h and I was like I just

1:30:52.760 --> 1:30:54.400
<v Speaker 2>She was like, aren't you married with kids? And I

1:30:54.439 --> 1:30:57.160
<v Speaker 2>was like, I'm not married with kids, but I definitely

1:30:57.160 --> 1:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>have kids. And I was like, I'd love to talk

1:31:00.080 --> 1:31:02.160
<v Speaker 2>yeah to getting married. Is there a week you could

1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:06.439
<v Speaker 2>give me three days? And we laughed a little bit

1:31:06.560 --> 1:31:12.280
<v Speaker 2>and we exchanged phone numbers, and I found out the

1:31:12.320 --> 1:31:16.120
<v Speaker 2>next day when or a couple of days later actually,

1:31:16.160 --> 1:31:20.000
<v Speaker 2>that she was trying on wedding dresses that day, crying

1:31:20.320 --> 1:31:23.400
<v Speaker 2>in the dressing room, telling her mom something wasn't right

1:31:23.479 --> 1:31:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and she didn't want to marry this guy. So when

1:31:26.439 --> 1:31:27.600
<v Speaker 2>I said I want to talk to you out of

1:31:27.640 --> 1:31:31.559
<v Speaker 2>getting married, it was all like this wave of whatever.

1:31:31.880 --> 1:31:36.559
<v Speaker 2>And so we had coffee and she came to the

1:31:36.600 --> 1:31:39.599
<v Speaker 2>show the next night. I got to spend a little

1:31:39.600 --> 1:31:42.800
<v Speaker 2>time with her after the show, and I try to

1:31:42.800 --> 1:31:46.040
<v Speaker 2>see her every single minute of every day after that.

1:31:46.280 --> 1:31:50.040
<v Speaker 2>So she went home and packed her stuff from San Diego,

1:31:50.360 --> 1:31:54.559
<v Speaker 2>moved back with her parents, and then we ended up

1:31:55.000 --> 1:31:58.599
<v Speaker 2>getting an apartment in Santa Monica.

1:31:58.960 --> 1:32:02.200
<v Speaker 1>How long after you that gig at the Crocodile do

1:32:02.200 --> 1:32:04.080
<v Speaker 1>you get the apartment in Santa Monica?

1:32:04.760 --> 1:32:07.680
<v Speaker 2>It was just a few months. I because I had

1:32:07.720 --> 1:32:11.960
<v Speaker 2>to be in Eerie to be with my children, and

1:32:12.000 --> 1:32:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I decided because of how unhappy I was with the band,

1:32:16.880 --> 1:32:19.439
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to pursue acting. So I was like, why

1:32:19.439 --> 1:32:23.519
<v Speaker 2>don't we move to La so I can pursue acting

1:32:23.680 --> 1:32:27.080
<v Speaker 2>take acting lessons. I have enough money that I can

1:32:27.200 --> 1:32:29.919
<v Speaker 2>pay all my debt and we can have an apartment

1:32:29.960 --> 1:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>there and live an okay life while I figure shit out.

1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:39.479
<v Speaker 2>And so we lived there for a year and then

1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:42.080
<v Speaker 2>bought a house close to where her parents live.

1:32:42.600 --> 1:32:44.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, where do you live today?

1:32:45.360 --> 1:32:48.760
<v Speaker 2>I live in Washington State, right across the street from

1:32:48.800 --> 1:32:55.240
<v Speaker 2>her parents, literally fifty fish and they're they're like my

1:32:55.320 --> 1:32:57.920
<v Speaker 2>closest friends. It's a really.

1:32:57.800 --> 1:33:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay two kids from your first they're out of the house.

1:33:01.800 --> 1:33:02.559
<v Speaker 1>What are they up to?

1:33:02.720 --> 1:33:05.320
<v Speaker 2>So my son lives with his mom in Erie, Pennsylvania,

1:33:05.760 --> 1:33:09.439
<v Speaker 2>and my daughter lives in Washington State, a couple miles

1:33:09.479 --> 1:33:12.360
<v Speaker 2>from me, and she's she's over a lot.

1:33:14.320 --> 1:33:19.080
<v Speaker 1>You live in Santa Monica taking acting lessons? What'd you

1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:23.000
<v Speaker 1>learn about the other side of the fence? Not music

1:33:23.080 --> 1:33:25.000
<v Speaker 1>but acting TV movies.

1:33:26.560 --> 1:33:31.360
<v Speaker 2>It's really hard. It's really hard because I can pretend

1:33:31.400 --> 1:33:34.120
<v Speaker 2>with the best of them, and I can remember what

1:33:34.400 --> 1:33:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I write, but trying to remember what somebody else wrote

1:33:38.280 --> 1:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>is really hard for me. I don't have a photographic

1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:44.800
<v Speaker 2>memory or anything. But I got pretty good at it,

1:33:44.840 --> 1:33:47.040
<v Speaker 2>and I ended up in a couple of TV shows,

1:33:47.560 --> 1:33:50.760
<v Speaker 2>but that was after Hey Soul Sister, and like I was,

1:33:51.280 --> 1:33:55.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, back on the horse of you know, doing

1:33:55.520 --> 1:34:00.120
<v Speaker 2>business again. But I don't, you know, the acting thing.

1:34:00.160 --> 1:34:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Nobody ever beat my door down to try to get

1:34:03.120 --> 1:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>my tried. I auditioned for several things and didn't get them.

1:34:06.800 --> 1:34:10.200
<v Speaker 2>And it's hard. You have to be a full time actor.

1:34:10.240 --> 1:34:12.360
<v Speaker 2>I think, like you have to really commit. Very few

1:34:12.400 --> 1:34:14.400
<v Speaker 2>people can do what Cherry Letto does, you know, and

1:34:14.840 --> 1:34:15.519
<v Speaker 2>be good at both.

1:34:16.240 --> 1:34:20.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you make another album. There really isn't a hit

1:34:20.600 --> 1:34:24.519
<v Speaker 1>on it. How does that feel terrible?

1:34:25.960 --> 1:34:30.600
<v Speaker 2>That was I didn't want to make that record. I

1:34:30.640 --> 1:34:35.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to make that record in Atlanta. We did

1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:39.800
<v Speaker 2>not have the goods at all, and it was very disappointing.

1:34:39.840 --> 1:34:42.160
<v Speaker 2>We don't play any songs from that record. It was

1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:46.120
<v Speaker 2>the end of the band for me. It's You happens

1:34:46.160 --> 1:34:50.320
<v Speaker 2>to be a few of my friend's favorite album, not mine.

1:34:50.840 --> 1:34:57.240
<v Speaker 2>It's a period of failure and like leftover sadness. You know,

1:34:58.000 --> 1:34:58.960
<v Speaker 2>I needed to move on.

1:35:00.680 --> 1:35:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when you go back to the studio again, you

1:35:03.160 --> 1:35:07.719
<v Speaker 1>make another record, You're working with a ton of different people.

1:35:07.920 --> 1:35:09.000
<v Speaker 1>What's going on there?

1:35:10.120 --> 1:35:11.320
<v Speaker 2>You mean my solo record?

1:35:11.600 --> 1:35:14.000
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm talking about Save Me San Francisco.

1:35:15.000 --> 1:35:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, save Me San Francisco. That so, yeah, we go

1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:20.680
<v Speaker 2>from we go from for me, It's You to my

1:35:20.760 --> 1:35:23.639
<v Speaker 2>solo record that doesn't you know it wasn't the right record,

1:35:24.840 --> 1:35:29.720
<v Speaker 2>and then sam Me San Francisco. Then it's like the

1:35:29.840 --> 1:35:33.599
<v Speaker 2>rules of you can't write in the band are way over,

1:35:34.120 --> 1:35:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Like we got to get back or this is over forever.

1:35:38.200 --> 1:35:41.599
<v Speaker 2>And so I wrote with every person that would meet

1:35:41.600 --> 1:35:46.000
<v Speaker 2>with me, and two times a day if I could

1:35:46.000 --> 1:35:50.679
<v Speaker 2>get the time, and you know, through that, I wrote

1:35:50.680 --> 1:35:54.479
<v Speaker 2>with the Espionage guys and wrote Hey Soul Sister, drive

1:35:54.560 --> 1:36:00.840
<v Speaker 2>by other songs that I love, Bruises and my friend

1:36:00.880 --> 1:36:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Mark Wattenberg Like. It was all a period of this

1:36:03.439 --> 1:36:06.280
<v Speaker 2>is good for me to go meet people like they

1:36:06.439 --> 1:36:08.679
<v Speaker 2>liked what I did. I didn't know what they did,

1:36:09.080 --> 1:36:11.800
<v Speaker 2>but together we could somehow make something magical. So I

1:36:11.840 --> 1:36:13.360
<v Speaker 2>wrote with everybody, I could.

1:36:14.680 --> 1:36:19.120
<v Speaker 1>You have your career. But alongside of that, the business

1:36:19.200 --> 1:36:25.000
<v Speaker 1>is changing dramatically. Okay, it's consolidation in labels. We have

1:36:25.120 --> 1:36:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Napster or ultimately Spotify comes along and rescues the business.

1:36:29.880 --> 1:36:35.720
<v Speaker 1>But as we stated earlier, nothing is ubiquitous in the

1:36:35.800 --> 1:36:39.920
<v Speaker 1>same way is at the beginning of your career? Is

1:36:39.960 --> 1:36:43.840
<v Speaker 1>that palpable? Do you feel the game has changed or

1:36:43.840 --> 1:36:46.679
<v Speaker 1>are you still saying, hey man, you know I got

1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:48.360
<v Speaker 1>to write a hit that's going to get out every

1:36:48.479 --> 1:36:49.599
<v Speaker 1>radio for about etc.

1:36:51.080 --> 1:36:53.519
<v Speaker 2>So a radio hit, I don't even know if that's

1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the thing anymore. What you really need to do is

1:36:57.160 --> 1:37:01.120
<v Speaker 2>focus on social media and if a piece of your

1:37:01.200 --> 1:37:06.960
<v Speaker 2>song gets viral, then radio stations will start to play it.

1:37:07.000 --> 1:37:10.200
<v Speaker 2>But do people listen to radio? I mean, I listen

1:37:10.280 --> 1:37:14.519
<v Speaker 2>to like Serious XM, but it's rare that I would

1:37:14.600 --> 1:37:18.240
<v Speaker 2>listen to a channel that would play what I'm creating.

1:37:19.240 --> 1:37:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what does. I don't know what the

1:37:21.120 --> 1:37:25.439
<v Speaker 2>chances of success are. I think at this phase it's

1:37:25.760 --> 1:37:29.679
<v Speaker 2>more like the way I make a living is through

1:37:29.720 --> 1:37:36.040
<v Speaker 2>live performance. And if I have songs, new songs that

1:37:36.160 --> 1:37:39.760
<v Speaker 2>matter to the same people that Drops of Jupiter matter to,

1:37:40.560 --> 1:37:42.880
<v Speaker 2>that's a success for me. That's a win. That's a hit.

1:37:43.439 --> 1:37:47.800
<v Speaker 2>If people that love train love something new that I

1:37:47.840 --> 1:37:53.000
<v Speaker 2>did or that I'm doing, that's a success. What I

1:37:53.040 --> 1:37:56.960
<v Speaker 2>would hope for business wise from it, like hit radio

1:37:57.160 --> 1:38:00.800
<v Speaker 2>or TikTok or anything, a very low expections of that.

1:38:00.880 --> 1:38:07.920
<v Speaker 2>It's mostly I'm writing songs for train fans and future

1:38:07.960 --> 1:38:09.400
<v Speaker 2>train fans. That's it.

1:38:10.840 --> 1:38:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Who are train fans?

1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:19.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, they're pretty great, normal, loving, wonderful humans. And

1:38:20.400 --> 1:38:22.280
<v Speaker 2>we do a cruise every other year so I can

1:38:22.320 --> 1:38:24.600
<v Speaker 2>be closer to them, like many of them have my

1:38:24.640 --> 1:38:27.920
<v Speaker 2>phone number and email, and we support each other. They

1:38:28.000 --> 1:38:31.320
<v Speaker 2>are responsible for me having a great life, and I'm

1:38:31.360 --> 1:38:36.240
<v Speaker 2>responsible for the music of some of their greatest memories.

1:38:38.520 --> 1:38:43.880
<v Speaker 1>In terms of gaining new fans, can you feel it?

1:38:44.040 --> 1:38:45.559
<v Speaker 1>How do you do it? I mean, obviously we talked

1:38:45.560 --> 1:38:49.640
<v Speaker 1>earlier doing all these TikTok things. Do these work or

1:38:49.800 --> 1:38:52.960
<v Speaker 1>is it the same core who grew up with you?

1:38:53.000 --> 1:38:57.200
<v Speaker 2>No, it's it is. So this is an interesting thing

1:38:57.280 --> 1:39:02.160
<v Speaker 2>that's happening. So, you know, heavy metal and hard rock

1:39:02.520 --> 1:39:05.360
<v Speaker 2>is making a huge resurgence, Like my fourteen year old

1:39:05.400 --> 1:39:09.600
<v Speaker 2>son is obsessed with all of it. And there's also

1:39:10.439 --> 1:39:15.880
<v Speaker 2>what train does. There's a nostalgia movement where kids who

1:39:16.000 --> 1:39:18.680
<v Speaker 2>grew up in car seats listening to their moms and

1:39:18.760 --> 1:39:23.880
<v Speaker 2>music are falling in love with it as teenagers and

1:39:24.080 --> 1:39:27.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty year olds. So we find that every tour we

1:39:27.920 --> 1:39:30.880
<v Speaker 2>have more and more high school and college kids. And

1:39:30.960 --> 1:39:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I saw this happen with Tom Petty a long time ago.

1:39:34.840 --> 1:39:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Like Tom, you know, has far more amazing songs than

1:39:39.160 --> 1:39:42.559
<v Speaker 2>I do, but he there was a lull in all

1:39:42.600 --> 1:39:45.519
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, there was a massive boom in the

1:39:45.560 --> 1:39:49.559
<v Speaker 2>Tom Petty world where young people were embracing Tom Petty.

1:39:49.600 --> 1:39:51.519
<v Speaker 2>I remember my sister in law, who at the time

1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:54.840
<v Speaker 2>was sixteen, couldn't wait to go see Tom at the

1:39:54.880 --> 1:39:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Gorge in Washington State, And like, I feel like that

1:39:58.960 --> 1:40:02.080
<v Speaker 2>is happening right now and we could be a part

1:40:02.120 --> 1:40:03.280
<v Speaker 2>of that. I'd like to be a part of that.

1:40:03.720 --> 1:40:07.880
<v Speaker 2>It'd be more fun for me for a teenager to

1:40:08.000 --> 1:40:13.200
<v Speaker 2>hear a song like the Weekend and go that song's amazing,

1:40:13.720 --> 1:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>and then they come and see us and they're like,

1:40:15.400 --> 1:40:18.920
<v Speaker 2>holy shit, they do that and that and not have

1:40:19.000 --> 1:40:19.559
<v Speaker 2>any idea.

1:40:21.360 --> 1:40:25.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you became a favorite of Howard Stern and you

1:40:25.280 --> 1:40:29.519
<v Speaker 1>did ramble on on Howard Stern. That's a cool thing.

1:40:30.320 --> 1:40:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that enlarged your audience Howard?

1:40:34.000 --> 1:40:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Definitely. I mean I still go to many places, and

1:40:39.560 --> 1:40:42.800
<v Speaker 2>we haven't been on Howard in a long time. I

1:40:42.880 --> 1:40:45.679
<v Speaker 2>was on when Ralph passed away briefly, but we haven't

1:40:45.720 --> 1:40:47.439
<v Speaker 2>been on for like a new album or anything in

1:40:47.479 --> 1:40:50.880
<v Speaker 2>a while or had a long conversation. But so many

1:40:50.920 --> 1:40:54.360
<v Speaker 2>people are like, I love you on Howard. You know,

1:40:54.680 --> 1:40:58.360
<v Speaker 2>when I met Howard, he was still on k Rock,

1:40:59.360 --> 1:41:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and then years later when he was on Serious, we

1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:05.640
<v Speaker 2>got to be pretty good pals. And he and I

1:41:05.720 --> 1:41:08.559
<v Speaker 2>are very similar in our love for LED's Uplin, but

1:41:08.600 --> 1:41:11.120
<v Speaker 2>also as people like he's smarter than I am and

1:41:11.120 --> 1:41:13.559
<v Speaker 2>funnier than I am, but I think we care about

1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:16.280
<v Speaker 2>the same stuff and so we had that in common.

1:41:16.320 --> 1:41:20.519
<v Speaker 2>And I know that you've said incredible, great things about Howard,

1:41:20.520 --> 1:41:22.880
<v Speaker 2>and he's a big fan of yours. So when you

1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:25.000
<v Speaker 2>know him a little bit, you realize that you know

1:41:25.040 --> 1:41:27.360
<v Speaker 2>you're talking to one of the smartest people you'll ever

1:41:27.600 --> 1:41:29.679
<v Speaker 2>be around, and clever and interesting.

1:41:31.200 --> 1:41:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you know Fred Astaire famously really had no friends.

1:41:37.280 --> 1:41:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Then there are other people Sammy Hagar. He knows everybody

1:41:41.280 --> 1:41:44.760
<v Speaker 1>and stays in contact with everybody. Where do you fit

1:41:44.840 --> 1:41:45.840
<v Speaker 1>on that continuum?

1:41:46.280 --> 1:41:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm I think I'm closer to Sammy, like Sammy's palmine,

1:41:54.520 --> 1:41:58.439
<v Speaker 2>but I'm way more careful about who I would want

1:41:58.520 --> 1:42:03.519
<v Speaker 2>to be friends with, especially in the music world. I

1:42:03.720 --> 1:42:08.519
<v Speaker 2>my closest friends are through Golf. I love and trust them.

1:42:08.840 --> 1:42:12.200
<v Speaker 2>We come from different things. We want nothing from one

1:42:12.240 --> 1:42:16.679
<v Speaker 2>another other than friendship. Sammy wants nothing from you other

1:42:16.720 --> 1:42:19.840
<v Speaker 2>than like, come and sing with me because it's fun.

1:42:19.600 --> 1:42:24.160
<v Speaker 2>And he's Sammy Hagar, So that kind of relationship musically,

1:42:24.200 --> 1:42:27.160
<v Speaker 2>I love, like, we don't need anything from each other,

1:42:27.880 --> 1:42:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Let's just be friends and support each other. And I

1:42:29.960 --> 1:42:34.519
<v Speaker 2>have that with with several artists like Mark Roberts from Oar.

1:42:34.600 --> 1:42:41.280
<v Speaker 2>I love that kid. You know, there are Kat Tunstall

1:42:41.520 --> 1:42:46.240
<v Speaker 2>I think is just absolutely tremendous Sammy. I love like

1:42:46.280 --> 1:42:49.000
<v Speaker 2>there's you know, there's a handful of musicians that I

1:42:49.120 --> 1:42:51.800
<v Speaker 2>want to stay close with forever, But then there's a

1:42:51.880 --> 1:42:55.479
<v Speaker 2>handful of musicians that I'm good like. I'm more like

1:42:55.520 --> 1:42:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Fred Astaire.

1:42:58.960 --> 1:43:03.519
<v Speaker 1>On a tip of day. Are you in contact with

1:43:04.479 --> 1:43:08.960
<v Speaker 1>other high profile celebrities musical celebrities we leave the golf

1:43:09.000 --> 1:43:11.840
<v Speaker 1>people aside? Or is that more of a rare thing.

1:43:12.840 --> 1:43:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not a celebrity. I'm

1:43:16.000 --> 1:43:19.920
<v Speaker 2>not really in contact with a bunch of celebrities. Like

1:43:20.720 --> 1:43:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I probably know more professional athletes than I know, like

1:43:26.080 --> 1:43:26.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't.

1:43:26.560 --> 1:43:27.120
<v Speaker 1>I know a.

1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Couple of actors, But like same lost its interest to

1:43:32.880 --> 1:43:35.840
<v Speaker 2>me a long time ago, Like I used to long

1:43:35.920 --> 1:43:39.439
<v Speaker 2>for it, And when Chris Martin's career was going like

1:43:39.520 --> 1:43:41.800
<v Speaker 2>this and he was getting famous, I was jealous of

1:43:41.880 --> 1:43:44.400
<v Speaker 2>it because I thought I want that. And now that

1:43:44.479 --> 1:43:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm not famous and I don't have to deal with

1:43:47.320 --> 1:43:49.680
<v Speaker 2>all that, I don't really want anything to do with it.

1:43:50.120 --> 1:43:53.360
<v Speaker 2>And I don't like seek famous people out to hang

1:43:53.400 --> 1:43:56.080
<v Speaker 2>out with them. I'd love to be friends with Killian

1:43:56.160 --> 1:44:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Murphy because he seems like just such a cool guy

1:44:00.200 --> 1:44:05.280
<v Speaker 2>and so real. But yeah, there's nothing about I don't

1:44:05.479 --> 1:44:07.160
<v Speaker 2>keep in touch with a lot of eye profile. I

1:44:07.200 --> 1:44:09.840
<v Speaker 2>keep in touch with George Lopez because he's one of

1:44:09.840 --> 1:44:13.599
<v Speaker 2>my favorite people, but that's not because of anything other

1:44:13.640 --> 1:44:14.280
<v Speaker 2>than I love him.

1:44:15.360 --> 1:44:18.719
<v Speaker 1>Will you email or text with Howard or just when

1:44:18.840 --> 1:44:22.000
<v Speaker 1>you know Gary reaches out in order to have you

1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:23.840
<v Speaker 1>do something, No.

1:44:23.840 --> 1:44:28.680
<v Speaker 2>I definitely I will rarely because I know that he

1:44:28.760 --> 1:44:32.920
<v Speaker 2>complains about you know, like I. He talked about Drop's

1:44:33.000 --> 1:44:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Jupiter turning twenty five the other day, and so I

1:44:35.800 --> 1:44:40.840
<v Speaker 2>just sent him a note saying, don't respond, thank you

1:44:40.880 --> 1:44:42.880
<v Speaker 2>for the love. I hope you guys are great. I

1:44:42.920 --> 1:44:46.360
<v Speaker 2>love you, And then he didn't respond, so I let

1:44:46.400 --> 1:44:46.960
<v Speaker 2>him off the hook.

1:44:47.000 --> 1:44:49.160
<v Speaker 1>So he's, like Chris said, doctor Respot, he's got a

1:44:49.160 --> 1:44:51.679
<v Speaker 1>lot of people looking for He's got his own life.

1:44:52.160 --> 1:44:53.879
<v Speaker 1>What's your favorite led Zeppelins?

1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:57.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, I talked to my son about this because

1:44:57.560 --> 1:44:59.800
<v Speaker 2>we debate about it, and I think it has to

1:44:59.840 --> 1:45:04.800
<v Speaker 2>be the Rain song. Really Yeah, It's just got so

1:45:05.120 --> 1:45:09.639
<v Speaker 2>many different layers to it, and the vocals are great.

1:45:09.720 --> 1:45:12.800
<v Speaker 2>I love the lyrics, the everything Jimmy Page is. It's

1:45:12.800 --> 1:45:17.599
<v Speaker 2>it's just a magical song. How about you ten years gone?

1:45:17.800 --> 1:45:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow? Interesting. Is that a physical graffiti?

1:45:22.960 --> 1:45:26.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know they got those all those they got

1:45:26.560 --> 1:45:29.320
<v Speaker 1>Cashmere ins one side back in the vinyl days yea,

1:45:29.479 --> 1:45:32.840
<v Speaker 1>in my time of dying, yeah, ten years. I love

1:45:32.920 --> 1:45:37.040
<v Speaker 1>how it goes from quiet to loud, which ultimately Boston

1:45:37.880 --> 1:45:40.479
<v Speaker 1>I won't say Ripped Off was influenced by, and that's

1:45:40.520 --> 1:45:43.760
<v Speaker 1>how they created Long Time. I know it soars and

1:45:43.800 --> 1:45:46.080
<v Speaker 1>then it goes acoustic, etc.

1:45:46.840 --> 1:45:48.920
<v Speaker 2>A great song. Yeah.

1:45:49.200 --> 1:45:52.680
<v Speaker 1>So basically at this point you're training, you call all

1:45:52.680 --> 1:45:53.240
<v Speaker 1>the shots.

1:45:53.680 --> 1:45:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And I have great friends that share the stage

1:45:56.439 --> 1:45:58.840
<v Speaker 2>with me that I try to be as generous as

1:45:58.840 --> 1:46:03.799
<v Speaker 2>I can too. And but you know, having a business partner,

1:46:03.840 --> 1:46:07.720
<v Speaker 2>I've learned just the hard way that there's resentment and

1:46:07.880 --> 1:46:10.439
<v Speaker 2>other things that come into play that I don't want

1:46:10.600 --> 1:46:12.479
<v Speaker 2>to deal with and I don't want them to have

1:46:12.520 --> 1:46:14.920
<v Speaker 2>to deal with it. So just allow me to be

1:46:15.000 --> 1:46:20.679
<v Speaker 2>generous and don't ask me to be a partner because

1:46:21.680 --> 1:46:25.000
<v Speaker 2>that kind of relationship I've not been very successful at.

1:46:27.120 --> 1:46:30.120
<v Speaker 1>So how many dates do you want to do a year?

1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:36.040
<v Speaker 2>I want to do none. That's not true, you know,

1:46:36.479 --> 1:46:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I think one hundred dates is quite a lot. I

1:46:40.960 --> 1:46:43.680
<v Speaker 2>think will be about one hundred this year. I'd like

1:46:43.760 --> 1:46:46.639
<v Speaker 2>to I'd like to work less and make more money.

1:46:46.680 --> 1:46:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Like to be honest, i'd like to play who would

1:46:49.560 --> 1:46:53.639
<v Speaker 2>I know? I want to play bigger venues and play

1:46:53.720 --> 1:46:59.800
<v Speaker 2>less of them, like I think having fifty, we'll see

1:47:00.000 --> 1:47:01.639
<v Speaker 2>I need more than fifty. If you're going to play

1:47:01.640 --> 1:47:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Europe in Australia, if I could play seventy shows, I

1:47:04.960 --> 1:47:05.799
<v Speaker 2>think I'd be psyched.

1:47:06.880 --> 1:47:07.679
<v Speaker 1>Who's your agent?

1:47:09.120 --> 1:47:12.120
<v Speaker 2>It's CIA. Now we just went back to Rob Light

1:47:12.240 --> 1:47:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and the guys at CIA.

1:47:14.560 --> 1:47:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so listen, it's a business. So like you're going

1:47:19.880 --> 1:47:23.920
<v Speaker 1>out with beer naked ladies and Matt Nathanson. How does

1:47:23.960 --> 1:47:24.839
<v Speaker 1>that come together?

1:47:26.160 --> 1:47:30.280
<v Speaker 2>It usually starts with Jonathan's partner Bob McLynn. Like Bob,

1:47:31.520 --> 1:47:35.479
<v Speaker 2>they'll they'll run a bunch of people by me and

1:47:35.560 --> 1:47:37.519
<v Speaker 2>ask you know what I think of this? Like we

1:47:37.560 --> 1:47:40.040
<v Speaker 2>went with Rio and that was very strange to me,

1:47:40.120 --> 1:47:42.479
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, yeah, I mean I love their music.

1:47:42.520 --> 1:47:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Let's see what it's like. And I had the time

1:47:45.000 --> 1:47:46.600
<v Speaker 2>of my life out there with those guys. And I

1:47:46.640 --> 1:47:49.040
<v Speaker 2>know the bear naked lady guys. I know they're great guys.

1:47:49.640 --> 1:47:53.360
<v Speaker 2>So the more I know people, the better. Because I'm

1:47:53.400 --> 1:47:56.360
<v Speaker 2>fifty seven years old and like I don't have time

1:47:56.439 --> 1:47:59.559
<v Speaker 2>for a bunch of bullshit, like I want people to

1:47:59.600 --> 1:48:03.759
<v Speaker 2>get on like family. Our goal is to make everybody

1:48:03.800 --> 1:48:07.040
<v Speaker 2>in those seats happy that they came. And you know,

1:48:07.120 --> 1:48:10.880
<v Speaker 2>we should perform together on stage and and get on

1:48:11.040 --> 1:48:14.160
<v Speaker 2>well with each other, because this time we have on

1:48:14.200 --> 1:48:15.320
<v Speaker 2>this planet is fleeting.

1:48:16.960 --> 1:48:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you do the cruise every other year, do you

1:48:20.760 --> 1:48:22.720
<v Speaker 1>have any problems selling? Do you have to work to

1:48:22.800 --> 1:48:25.360
<v Speaker 1>sell the tickets? Or you got these fans, they're coming.

1:48:25.400 --> 1:48:26.559
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to worry about selling.

1:48:26.680 --> 1:48:29.360
<v Speaker 2>No, they sell in pre sale. Like. I don't even

1:48:29.360 --> 1:48:33.680
<v Speaker 2>think we would need to put a roster of performers up.

1:48:34.280 --> 1:48:38.120
<v Speaker 2>It's just become something that people want to do every

1:48:38.120 --> 1:48:40.519
<v Speaker 2>other year. Every year would be a little harder because

1:48:41.040 --> 1:48:42.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, you do have to keep in mind that

1:48:43.600 --> 1:48:46.320
<v Speaker 2>it takes time. You got to fly to Florida, you

1:48:46.400 --> 1:48:49.160
<v Speaker 2>need to save money to do these vacations, and so

1:48:49.280 --> 1:48:52.439
<v Speaker 2>every other year has it's been easy for it to sell.

1:48:52.520 --> 1:48:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't have to do any work. Well.

1:48:54.880 --> 1:48:57.280
<v Speaker 1>A friend of mine managed kid Rock. Let's not get

1:48:57.280 --> 1:49:01.959
<v Speaker 1>into the politics. Kid Rock. Hit Rock did a cruise

1:49:03.240 --> 1:49:07.559
<v Speaker 1>and he said, yeah, everybody would get to meet him,

1:49:08.280 --> 1:49:11.439
<v Speaker 1>and then he said never again. Because he hit you know,

1:49:11.520 --> 1:49:13.479
<v Speaker 1>the whole time. He's the star of the cruise. He

1:49:13.479 --> 1:49:14.400
<v Speaker 1>could never sleep.

1:49:14.880 --> 1:49:18.760
<v Speaker 2>What's your experience, my experiences, We've we've figured out a

1:49:18.760 --> 1:49:25.639
<v Speaker 2>way and this is a real thing that if you see,

1:49:25.479 --> 1:49:27.320
<v Speaker 2>we got away with it for a couple of years.

1:49:27.439 --> 1:49:31.679
<v Speaker 2>If you sign up on the pre sale, you get

1:49:31.680 --> 1:49:34.120
<v Speaker 2>a picture with the band, and plus we're working our

1:49:34.160 --> 1:49:37.880
<v Speaker 2>asses off this whole time. Man, I'm like game shows

1:49:37.920 --> 1:49:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and judging things and everything you could think of and

1:49:41.479 --> 1:49:43.960
<v Speaker 2>the shows that we perform. So if you sign up

1:49:43.960 --> 1:49:45.479
<v Speaker 2>in pre sale, you get to take a picture with

1:49:45.520 --> 1:49:49.080
<v Speaker 2>the band on the third morning of whatever. And now

1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:51.599
<v Speaker 2>the whole boat sells out in pre sale, So we

1:49:51.680 --> 1:49:57.519
<v Speaker 2>meet every cruiser, every cruise, and you know it and

1:49:57.560 --> 1:50:00.519
<v Speaker 2>it's worth worth every second of it.

1:50:02.120 --> 1:50:05.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you've mentioned you recently did the Carnegie Hall Billy

1:50:05.880 --> 1:50:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Joel thing. Do you feel like, oh, yeah, you know

1:50:10.520 --> 1:50:13.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm going through you know, my manager calls me, I

1:50:13.080 --> 1:50:17.240
<v Speaker 1>have an oping I'll go, or you have some imposter syndrome,

1:50:17.360 --> 1:50:20.240
<v Speaker 1>saying wow, I can't believe they called me. This is great.

1:50:21.120 --> 1:50:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I have two great stories. Bill. Billy and I sat

1:50:23.840 --> 1:50:26.719
<v Speaker 2>together at Howard in Best Wedding and I didn't really

1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:29.200
<v Speaker 2>talk much to Billy because I'm such a big fan.

1:50:29.280 --> 1:50:31.920
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to say anything stupid, but I love

1:50:32.000 --> 1:50:33.640
<v Speaker 2>being with him, and I was like, Billy, if you

1:50:33.720 --> 1:50:37.000
<v Speaker 2>went and sang always a woman at this wedding right now,

1:50:37.400 --> 1:50:41.680
<v Speaker 2>this place would go ape shit. So he's like, you know,

1:50:42.960 --> 1:50:45.000
<v Speaker 2>So he finally went up and sang, and I heard

1:50:45.080 --> 1:50:48.960
<v Speaker 2>him or watched him talk to the band leader, and

1:50:49.000 --> 1:50:51.439
<v Speaker 2>then he sang a James Taylor song because he's so

1:50:52.400 --> 1:50:55.240
<v Speaker 2>he's so not presumptuous that he would be like, yeah,

1:50:55.240 --> 1:50:58.760
<v Speaker 2>they want to hear a Billy Joel song. So I

1:50:58.800 --> 1:51:01.400
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go to Billy's so I could sing that

1:51:01.560 --> 1:51:04.960
<v Speaker 2>song that he wouldn't sing at Howard in Best Wedding.

1:51:05.920 --> 1:51:09.160
<v Speaker 2>But I have this really funny story about Paul Simon.

1:51:10.160 --> 1:51:15.080
<v Speaker 2>So I got a phone call like fifteen years ago,

1:51:15.120 --> 1:51:17.520
<v Speaker 2>when Paul Simon's going to be inducted into the Songwriting

1:51:17.520 --> 1:51:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Hall of Fame. Phone call comes from one of the

1:51:20.320 --> 1:51:25.880
<v Speaker 2>guys working at my publishing company, Guy goes Hey. Paul

1:51:25.960 --> 1:51:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Simon specifically asked for you to induct him into the

1:51:30.760 --> 1:51:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Songwriting Hall of Fame. I was like, holy shit, that's

1:51:34.080 --> 1:51:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the greatest thing I've ever heard in my life. I

1:51:36.080 --> 1:51:38.519
<v Speaker 2>can't do it. I'm going to be in Europe. But

1:51:38.600 --> 1:51:41.920
<v Speaker 2>please tell Paul. I'm such a huge fan. What an honor?

1:51:43.960 --> 1:51:48.120
<v Speaker 2>Years ago by I have a little spot in Maui

1:51:48.720 --> 1:51:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and Shep Gordon is a friend and Shep has a

1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:55.679
<v Speaker 2>charity show every year and it gives to the homeless.

1:51:55.680 --> 1:51:58.320
<v Speaker 2>It's some beautiful thing that he does. And he tells

1:51:58.360 --> 1:52:01.040
<v Speaker 2>me because I'm going to perform there. Sammy does it

1:52:01.040 --> 1:52:03.240
<v Speaker 2>every year and he's like, hey, Paul's gonna be here.

1:52:03.360 --> 1:52:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I was like, ah, Sep, when Paul's here, can you

1:52:07.040 --> 1:52:09.920
<v Speaker 2>please introduce me. I have a question for him. It's

1:52:09.960 --> 1:52:12.280
<v Speaker 2>been killing me for so long. He was like yep.

1:52:12.960 --> 1:52:15.040
<v Speaker 2>So he comes over. He's like, Pat, Paul just showed up.

1:52:15.160 --> 1:52:17.080
<v Speaker 2>So I go over and I'm like, mister Simon went

1:52:17.160 --> 1:52:20.360
<v Speaker 2>an honor? Min is Pat Monahan? Whatever? And I goes, hey,

1:52:20.439 --> 1:52:23.080
<v Speaker 2>I asked you a question. A few years ago. My

1:52:23.160 --> 1:52:26.519
<v Speaker 2>publicist called me when you were being inducted into the

1:52:26.560 --> 1:52:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Songwriting Hall of Fame and said that you specifically asked

1:52:29.000 --> 1:52:31.240
<v Speaker 2>for me to induct you by name. And I've been

1:52:31.320 --> 1:52:33.439
<v Speaker 2>dying all these years to ask you if that's true.

1:52:33.479 --> 1:52:36.200
<v Speaker 2>And he put his hand on my shoulder and he said, Pat,

1:52:36.320 --> 1:52:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to put your mind at ease. I never

1:52:39.040 --> 1:52:50.040
<v Speaker 2>asked for you. It's the greatest, Like, what a great thing.

1:52:50.280 --> 1:52:51.479
<v Speaker 2>And I get to have that all.

1:52:53.840 --> 1:53:00.000
<v Speaker 1>And that's his personality. Okay, you're a songwriter, but you're

1:53:00.120 --> 1:53:04.040
<v Speaker 1>rademark is your voice. There are people like Paul Anka

1:53:04.160 --> 1:53:07.559
<v Speaker 1>he could still sing the way he did. There are

1:53:07.560 --> 1:53:11.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people household names really can't hit the notes. Yeah,

1:53:11.840 --> 1:53:15.360
<v Speaker 1>are you fearful? How do you tweet your voice? You

1:53:15.479 --> 1:53:16.640
<v Speaker 1>fearful of losing it?

1:53:17.880 --> 1:53:20.120
<v Speaker 2>No? I mean, you know it's gonna be here as

1:53:20.160 --> 1:53:21.960
<v Speaker 2>long as it'll be here, and I just have to

1:53:22.000 --> 1:53:26.040
<v Speaker 2>keep doing. But I do to take care of it. Exercise, esteem,

1:53:26.680 --> 1:53:29.800
<v Speaker 2>the stuff that you can control. Stress, I think is

1:53:29.800 --> 1:53:32.120
<v Speaker 2>what really. You know. I had some vocal cord surgery

1:53:32.200 --> 1:53:35.519
<v Speaker 2>years ago. It was all stress related like that and

1:53:35.640 --> 1:53:37.640
<v Speaker 2>singing too many of Zeppelin songs.

1:53:39.240 --> 1:53:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what song do you enjoy most playing on stage?

1:53:45.080 --> 1:53:48.679
<v Speaker 2>You know, drops to Jupiter just because my mom sent

1:53:48.720 --> 1:53:52.639
<v Speaker 2>me that song and probably wrote it for me. It's

1:53:52.680 --> 1:53:55.680
<v Speaker 2>always gonna be the most important, But right now I

1:53:55.720 --> 1:53:59.599
<v Speaker 2>love performing the weekend. It's a song. People don't they're

1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:01.840
<v Speaker 2>not all that familiar with yet, but they seem to

1:54:01.880 --> 1:54:05.320
<v Speaker 2>love it. Live and new is always fun for me.

1:54:06.760 --> 1:54:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Pat, I think we've come to the end of

1:54:09.120 --> 1:54:12.600
<v Speaker 1>the feeling we've known. You've been very honest and forthcoming.

1:54:13.120 --> 1:54:15.600
<v Speaker 1>You're a sharp guy. I want to thank you for

1:54:15.760 --> 1:54:17.519
<v Speaker 1>taking this time with my audience.

1:54:18.560 --> 1:54:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Bob. You're great at what you do. Man,

1:54:21.120 --> 1:54:23.479
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate all the questions. You're good at it.

1:54:24.920 --> 1:54:27.719
<v Speaker 1>Until next time. This is Bob Left Sense.