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Speaker 1: If this is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast, you

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything.

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Speaker 2: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by first Light.

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Speaker 2: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 2: for el First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 2: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 2: dot com. F I R S T l I t

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Speaker 2: E dot com. Joined today by our first ever I

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Speaker 2: think this is our first ever definitely our first ever

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Speaker 2: guest who is from a Native American tribal reservation, however

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Speaker 2: you want to put it, a reservation fishing game agency.

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Speaker 2: We've met all kinds of fishing game people from the

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Speaker 2: States right, but we've never had a tribal fishing game official.

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Speaker 2: And people are going to learn a lot about how

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Speaker 2: this works, and we'll probably and a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: particularly in the eastern United States, will be surprised about

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Speaker 2: the level of sovereignty on large tracts of western lands

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Speaker 2: for reservations. Arthur, if you call you Arthur Art that

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Speaker 2: do you call you Art? And and and you brought

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Speaker 2: along your wife or nay okay and Arthur, you're Northern

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Speaker 2: irapa Ho, but you married a suit and this is

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Speaker 2: not frowned upon. This was arranged.

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Speaker 3: Somewhat. We're more of like a blind date, but then

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Speaker 3: ended up after. You know, our parents must have known something,

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Speaker 3: so we we call ourselves an arranged marriage.

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Speaker 2: Is it was it common for Northern irapa Ho before

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Speaker 2: you two met? Was it common that Northern Arapaho would

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Speaker 2: Maria Gualasu? Was that like a common union?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Actually, we have a long history of the Northern Cheyenne,

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Speaker 3: the arapa Ho and the Lakota people summering together and

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Speaker 3: meeting in like the you know when nomadic lifestyle, meeting

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Speaker 3: and stuff and summering together. So we already had a

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Speaker 3: strong familial relationship with those tribes and stuff, and they

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Speaker 3: were like the allies with each other.

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Speaker 2: So got it. If you go into our restroom down here,

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Speaker 2: you might miss it because you won't be at the urinal.

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Speaker 2: Were you to visit the urinal, you would see a

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Speaker 2: painting called here fell Custer, and it's all Custer's guys

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Speaker 2: and their kind of moment of death, you know, at

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Speaker 2: the little big on battlefield, and then down the hill

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Speaker 2: you can see the large encampment. We're Northern Irapaho ye present.

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Speaker 3: The Northern, the Cheyenne and and and the is it.

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Speaker 2: I've always wanted to hear someone who actually knows pronounces

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Speaker 2: is it unk Papa sue unhunk Papa Sue. And you're

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Speaker 2: a Galala sue. Crazy horse was a Galawa sue?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: Crazy horse was Ogalala?

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Speaker 2: Okay, say it again? O Galala oglalla got it? And uh?

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Speaker 2: And you were brought up on the Pine Ridge Reservation.

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Speaker 3: No, actually, I'm sorry, I uh I was born there,

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Speaker 3: but I my mom and stepdad. My mom met my

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Speaker 3: stepdad on the Wind River Reservation and she worked for

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Speaker 3: Indian Health Service, and then we moved from there and

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Speaker 3: we moved to different places. We lived on the Navajo

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Speaker 3: Reservation where my stepdad taught school for a couple of years,

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Speaker 3: and then moved down to the Phoenix area and that's

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Speaker 3: where I ended up going to through high school. And

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Speaker 3: then we moved back to the Wind River Reservation after

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Speaker 3: I graduated high school so that my stepdad could help

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Speaker 3: with my grandpa's ranch and helped, you know, help with

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Speaker 3: the cows and stuff. And so my parents own a

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Speaker 3: ranch on out in Canee or Wyoming, and then we

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Speaker 3: met each other and he went to school out in

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Speaker 3: Canear and just been there ever since.

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Speaker 2: And what did you study in school?

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Speaker 6: Art Well, I first started in hvac, you know, just

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Speaker 6: working a trade and stuff like that. I come from

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Speaker 6: an area where it's either ranching, farming, oil field. That's

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Speaker 6: all we knew in central Wyoming. So I laughed, went

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Speaker 6: to Denver, Colorado for a while, and then moved back

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Speaker 6: home to the reservation.

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Speaker 2: And your reservation. And we're gonna get into the Uh,

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Speaker 2: don't sweat if you're at home wandering about the whole

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Speaker 2: fish and game thing. We're gonna get to that. But

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Speaker 2: but Wind River Reservation one was a couple of things here.

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Speaker 2: If you keep going, this is always kind of surprised me.

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Speaker 2: If you're on the Big Horn River and you go

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Speaker 2: up the Bighorn River, it goes through a canyon and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's the Wind River.

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Speaker 7: The wedding of the waters, the.

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Speaker 2: Wedding of the waters, and that's where and that right

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Speaker 2: there is in the country where you guys have your reservation.

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Speaker 2: And when your reservation was formed, they put the they

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Speaker 2: put Shoshone, the Sashone tribe in with the Northern Irapa Hole.

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Speaker 6: So they put the Northern Applehole. Northern Apple were further

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Speaker 6: south in Colorado home in those different areas. During the winter,

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Speaker 6: uh they were pushing Northern Raple back east to Oklahoma,

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Speaker 6: and on the way up there was a sant Creek

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Speaker 6: massacre where the cavalry killed a bunch of tribal members,

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Speaker 6: and they pushed them up north, and then for the

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Speaker 6: winter they landed on the Winter of Indian Reservation, where

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Speaker 6: the Eastern Shoshone tribe was established. And then the spring

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Speaker 6: they were supposed to move the rap holes back down

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Speaker 6: to Oklahoma, but that never happened. The government pretty much

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Speaker 6: said you're staying here and you're going to live with

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Speaker 6: the Shoshonees and you're going to be fifty percent owners

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Speaker 6: of this reservation.

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Speaker 2: Well how did the Shoshones take that?

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Speaker 6: At first? Probably not too happy.

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Speaker 2: Because also and it's like, okay, you have this, Well

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Speaker 2: now you don't, so now you both have this.

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Speaker 6: A couple of years prior to that, the Eastern Shoshone

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Speaker 6: Reservation was only thirty million acres long. Now four years

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Speaker 6: later it was down to two two and a half acres,

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Speaker 6: and then a couple of years after that, then they

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Speaker 6: moved in the Northern rapp Wole tribe to live with

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Speaker 6: them and then be part ownership of the reservation.

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Speaker 2: And how many acres is it now?

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Speaker 6: Two point two million?

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Speaker 2: And it was how many at a time thirty thirty.

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Speaker 8: Million, So that's roughly the size of Yellowstone National Park

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Speaker 8: right close.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, had the had prior to prior to the Sand

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Speaker 2: Creek Masak or what had been the relationship with the

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Speaker 2: Shoshone Northern Rapahole.

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Speaker 6: Traditionally there were enemies, Yeah, because.

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Speaker 2: The Shashawone were more like in the eighteen hundreds, the

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Speaker 2: Shoshone were sort of more welcoming of white intrusion. Right

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Rapaho had a history being more resistant

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Speaker 2: to white intrusion like in the eighteen hundreds. Is that correct?

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Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct. I mean they also went through

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Speaker 6: their own massacres too, and then they were top population

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Speaker 6: dropped radically with the massacres, and then they were placed

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Speaker 6: onto the well then that's then they started working with

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Speaker 6: the non natives and the cavalry and everything else, becoming

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Speaker 6: scouts and stuff because they were getting benefits of doing that.

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Speaker 6: And then until uh, you know, everything else happened the

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Speaker 6: Santric massacre and rapples showed up and then they just

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Speaker 6: became owners of one one landscape.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how I'm gonak one last question that we're gonna

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Speaker 2: take a break from it and talk about pre chewed food.

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Speaker 2: You guys have kids, We do you ever went every

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Speaker 2: little babies? Did you ever chew up food and then

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Speaker 2: hand it to him to eat with elk meat?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, we're gonna get into that in a minute, Okay,

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Speaker 9: so you'll know exactly what we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: The second here we got, we got We're gonna touch

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Speaker 2: on a couple of things. But how uh this is?

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Speaker 2: This is I'm trying to think of how to put

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Speaker 2: this question. How much? How let me pref I'm getting there.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of how to ask a semi

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Speaker 2: sensitive question, but it's not terribly sensitive. And I'll start

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Speaker 2: with this. I hunted in I hunted turkeys down in

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Speaker 2: Mississippi this past spring, okay.

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Speaker 8: And.

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Speaker 2: Was surprised that, like, in wandering around in Mississippi, every

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Speaker 2: day someone would mention the war and they were talking

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Speaker 2: about the Civil War before the war, right or like

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Speaker 2: after the war. Do you know what I mean? And

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Speaker 2: I'd be like, I cannot believe the way this is.

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Speaker 2: Like when I hear the war. When I say the war,

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking whiskey, whiskey too, because like my dad was

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Speaker 2: in it. But when they're talking about the war, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, they're talking about like before the Civil

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Speaker 2: War who owned that? Or after the Civil War? Who

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Speaker 2: built that reservoir? You know whatever. You know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: how much like in your culture, how much are the

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Speaker 2: atrocities like Sand Creek massacre wounded? K me, like, are

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Speaker 2: they how much are they mentioned in discussed and remembered?

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Speaker 2: Is it like is it a part of daily life.

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Speaker 6: It's not part of a daily life, but it's something

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Speaker 6: that the tribes bring up and I never will forget.

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Speaker 6: You know, when we work with the government and we

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Speaker 6: go over different projects and everything else that we do,

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Speaker 6: you know, we're bringing stuff up like that to show

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Speaker 6: our sovereignty and you know, we're our own nation and

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Speaker 6: we can do things differently than what the US government

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Speaker 6: has planned for us, and so you know, well it

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Speaker 6: comes up, but we don't dwell on it, you know.

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Speaker 6: You know, we talk about reservations, but traditionally travel member

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Speaker 6: tribes are not reservation Indians, you know, we we migrated

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Speaker 6: with a wildlife.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely memorialized and remembered, and in a sense

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Speaker 3: that it's not something that we will never forget and

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Speaker 3: we will never allow anybody else to forget that that's

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Speaker 3: that those atrocities happened, because that by by diminishing what

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Speaker 3: our ancestors had gone through to put us here makes

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Speaker 3: a minimizing it makes it easy for further atrocities to happen,

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Speaker 3: and it's not something that we want to ever to

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Speaker 3: allow to happen to us again. So that's kind of

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Speaker 3: the thing where you know, we're we're not going to

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Speaker 3: let anybody forget that the Sankirk massa care occurred, or

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Speaker 3: that there were only women and elders and children when

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Speaker 3: wounded happened that were in the camp and they were slaughtered.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to allow those types of things to

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Speaker 3: ever be forgotten because we don't ever want those things

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Speaker 3: to have to be able to reoccur for our people

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Speaker 3: because our ancestors did so much for survived for so

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Speaker 3: long for us to be here today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think, you know, it'd be silly

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Speaker 2: for someone to expect otherwise, especially when you look at

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Speaker 2: like like how thoroughly our culture memorializes catastrophes, wars, sacrifice, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's like totally baked into our culture. But

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Speaker 2: then it looks when when you see a like a

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Speaker 2: culture within our culture or neighboring culture do it. There's

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Speaker 2: a tendency for people to be like they're living in

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Speaker 2: the past. It's like, dude, you've been to Arlington Cemetery,

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Speaker 2: even to Gettysburg, Like, this is not living in the past.

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Speaker 3: You know when you were holding re enactments of those

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Speaker 3: battles and stuff.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, are you ready to talk about pre chewed food?

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Speaker 6: Sure?

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Speaker 4: Hang on, No.

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Speaker 2: The other day I mentioned I kind of mentioned it

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Speaker 2: like it was a little bit like people might think

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Speaker 2: we're nuts, but we used to chew like the first

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Speaker 2: it was very like when our kids got through about

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Speaker 2: nine months old, everyone and we'd started giving them chewed

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Speaker 2: up deer meat and and we were laughing about that.

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Speaker 2: But we got a bunch of people at you know,

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Speaker 2: not a bunch yeah, handful of people wrote in about

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Speaker 2: pre chewed food. Pat Dirkin wrote in that his mom

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Speaker 2: and paternal grandmother they've been feeding their infants that way,

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Speaker 2: going back that far, and he remembers Granny being disgusted

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Speaker 2: with Dirkin and his siblings thinking it was gross when

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Speaker 2: she would precheot her food and she called him spoiled.

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Speaker 2: He claims there was a pat claims that there was

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Speaker 2: a that's a Saturday Night Live skit which he was

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Speaker 2: not able to locate with the head. He remembers that

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Speaker 2: it had Gilda Radner in it and they were eating

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Speaker 2: at a restaurant called pre Chewed Charlie's. On the skit

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Speaker 2: and the way they would chew meet and then put

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Speaker 2: it on your plate. He was unable to locate.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He was unable to locate the skit. Doctor Max Kurr, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know that everybody thinks that everyone knows ball Jars,

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Speaker 2: glass Jars. Oh yes, yeah, they're kind of like the

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Speaker 2: band Aida Glass Jars. Well, a lot of people prefer

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Speaker 2: curR Jars, Karen, how do you say it?

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Speaker 4: K e r R.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. My late uh friend and mentor, Ron Layton was

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Speaker 2: a kurr jar Man, not Ball. I hope I don't

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Speaker 2: get a mean letter from bald Jars from Bald Yeah,

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Speaker 2: curR jars. Uh, he's written in before we actually just

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Speaker 2: met him at Meat Eater Experiences in Venice, Louisiana. He

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Speaker 2: came out He's excited about his day of offshore fishing

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Speaker 2: that I missed, which is depressing.

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Speaker 3: We all miss that.

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Speaker 2: I believe there's tunic for me somewhere.

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Speaker 6: There is.

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Speaker 5: I've got it for you, ye in the freezer, like

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Speaker 5: right outside.

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Speaker 2: This is so off topic for us, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: get injured anyways, because it was. It was brought on

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Speaker 2: by the idea of chewing up deer meat and giving

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Speaker 2: it to your baby.

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Speaker 7: I don't think it's off topic.

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Speaker 8: All kinds of animals chew up their food and let

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Speaker 8: it sit in their stomach and.

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Speaker 7: Then regurgitating that baby. How bad is chewing up your food?

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Speaker 4: And I always called that baby birding?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, cut. We had a conversation about cud chewing at dinnery.

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Speaker 5: Are you should hit that on a kid's segment? M

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Speaker 5: hm kids podcast?

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Speaker 2: Yeah might when I keep meaning to bring those pigeons

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Speaker 2: down here, But is.

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Speaker 8: That pigeon still shipping it on your foe?

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Speaker 2: I need to send I need to send you. There's

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Speaker 2: a video I should find it. Yeah, so my kids

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Speaker 2: got these baby pigeons I'm a nest and the they

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Speaker 2: have they roost, Like when you go up to our

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Speaker 2: front door, it's like, what do you call it? When

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Speaker 2: he got a little covered.

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Speaker 4: I think is what you said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a covered entry and probably jed in

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Speaker 2: the covered entry. And my wife needs to apologize to

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Speaker 2: every person that comes to our door because they are

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Speaker 2: standing in a mountain of pigeon. Ship. She calls us

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Speaker 2: the ship rellis ship Ella's terrible. But when my kids

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Speaker 2: are raising those birds up, like like pigeons, wigurgitate, they

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Speaker 2: they eat their food and they produce this kind of

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Speaker 2: milk substance. And so when they were raising them up,

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Speaker 2: we were taking sunflower seeds and mixing with almond milk

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Speaker 2: and putting it through a dropper. This guy is saying,

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Speaker 2: this guy is a doctor and he's talking about he's

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Speaker 2: a d d yes.

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Speaker 4: Dentist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. He was saying that, Uh, babies, in order to

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Speaker 2: build your jaw and all that you need to they

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Speaker 2: need what he calls resistance training, which is the same

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Speaker 2: as weightlifting. Babies should be chewing on all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's very important. Ye. Breastfeeding is better than a rubber

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Speaker 2: nipple because the sucking effect and the swallowing muscles develop.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's a real problem that I didn't know

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Speaker 2: about is kids sucking all their food out of those

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Speaker 2: little legs.

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Speaker 8: Yep, squeezers we call them.

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Speaker 2: Yep, it's prolonged. The advent of that highly processed squeezer

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Speaker 2: is prolonging how long children take before they start to masticate.

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Speaker 2: So you can picture in the future a bunch of

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Speaker 2: weak jawed I was reading.

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Speaker 4: I read that article.

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Speaker 5: From a few days ago. It's incredible.

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Speaker 4: They can stunt their speech development because they don't develop

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Speaker 4: the right coordination.

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Speaker 5: There's just like, I'm you got to talk to doctor Max.

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Speaker 8: Like mating those things NonStop into adulthood.

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Speaker 4: That's what well, that's that's what they're saying, is that

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Speaker 4: people came out I started.

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Speaker 2: Eating the suns of bitches. I still do I have

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Speaker 2: one yesterday I'll be like, sure, I'll tell you.

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Speaker 8: I think, yeah, if that's all they ate, maybe this

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Speaker 8: could happen.

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Speaker 4: But we were camping. We were camping with some folks

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Speaker 4: two weekends ago, I guess, and they they had two kids.

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Speaker 4: And at one point she turns to the kids and

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Speaker 4: she says, what do we remember about our pouches, and

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Speaker 4: they both were very dead serious and they said, we

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Speaker 4: only get one per day.

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Speaker 2: Since twenty ten, pouch consumption currency food pouch consumption since

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Speaker 2: twenty ten has increased nine hundred percent.

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Speaker 8: But over before there was none, So it's.

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Speaker 2: Like overtaking Jarred Pure as the predominant baby food on

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Speaker 2: the market. That's true. When you go from something not

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Speaker 2: existing to existing, it is a big jump. That'd be

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Speaker 2: another way to put it.

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Speaker 4: Automobile use his skyrocket, since.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it probably existed before twenty ten, so

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Speaker 5: it's maybe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, too many of these, and it's also a highly

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Speaker 2: processed food. I'm a big Mad Max fan, and Mother's

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Speaker 2: Milk plays heavily into Mad Max movies. And we're laughing

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Speaker 2: the other day. Yanni not a Mad Max fan, but

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Speaker 2: I was like to point out, Yani used to drink

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Speaker 2: a lot of the Mother's milk, so we had we

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Speaker 2: used to My boyf would freeze the little bags of it,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I remember for years being real curious

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Speaker 2: before I finally had a little swig. But Yanni was

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Speaker 2: putting the stuff in his coffee the whole time. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was his half and half all through having babies.

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Speaker 7: That's my favorite noise curd natures.

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Speaker 4: I think that means what else you got?

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Speaker 7: Trying not to be judgmental, but I'm curious.

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Speaker 3: No, I just yeah, he probably has a really good

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Speaker 3: immune system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's friendly too. He's very generous, very

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Speaker 2: generous of spirit, like.

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Speaker 5: A ceremonial placenta consumption.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah he did that.

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Speaker 2: Did he do that too?

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Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I think he did put it in a

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Speaker 7: pie or lasagna or something.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like, yeah, that's right. We talked about

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Speaker 2: it's like a way to have cannibalism. That's not bad.

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Speaker 7: Hang on, guys, starting to wonder about coming up here.

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Speaker 2: Only one last thing to talk about, Brody, How quickly

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Speaker 2: can you do your Colorado thing?

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Speaker 7: I can do it quick.

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Speaker 8: This popped up in my news feed. Uh Mancos, Colorado,

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Speaker 8: Southern Colorado. A bunch of angry town residents uh tore

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Speaker 8: down miles of fencing that had barboe fence. That that

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Speaker 8: a mysterious religious group had blocked off fourteen acres of

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Speaker 8: National Forest Service land for what reason they claimed. They

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Speaker 8: claimed it was theirs under the Homesteading Act, But the

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Speaker 8: Homesteading Act was repealed what fifty years ago, nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 8: everywhere except Alaska, I think it went on for a

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Speaker 8: while long.

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Speaker 2: And they had homestead acted fourteen hundred acres.

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Speaker 7: They just said it was there.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't really, Yeah, there's no real.

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Speaker 8: They're squatting on public land right.

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Speaker 2: Oh. And they're like the kind of people they're like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I've done some reading and I don't

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Speaker 2: have to pay tax.

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Speaker 4: They're they're like a sort of a splinter group when

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Speaker 4: Warren Jeff Scott.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, the free Landholders Committee they called themselves. Yeah, but

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Speaker 8: a bunch of people in the town kind of got

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Speaker 8: fed up with that public land being fenced off and

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Speaker 8: went in there and tore it down.

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Speaker 2: No one started shooting at each other.

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Speaker 8: No shooting, but you know, it's a heated, heated thing,

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Speaker 8: and the sheriff's office is kind of staying out of it.

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Speaker 8: They're not like they're saying it's a civil issue, and

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Speaker 8: so they're not arresting anyone for putting the fence up.

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Speaker 8: They're not resting anyone for tearing it down.

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Speaker 2: How long ago was the fence put up?

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Speaker 8: Uh, you know, it doesn't say, but it sounds like

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Speaker 8: it's been around for a while.

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Speaker 2: So one day the whole town's like.

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Speaker 6: Let's go turn it.

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Speaker 7: I think they're like, it's blocking access.

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Speaker 8: They hunt there, they fish there, they run motorcycle, snowmobiles,

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Speaker 8: all that stuff. They're worried someone's gonna get hurt by

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Speaker 8: the barberie fence. They're worried about the barber fence affecting

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Speaker 8: big game travel stuff like that. But nothing's like, they

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Speaker 8: haven't kicked these people off of national of the National

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Speaker 8: Force Service, just got rid of their fence, got rid

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Speaker 8: of their fence, and it's it's to be determined what's

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Speaker 8: going to happen, you know, if.

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Speaker 7: These people will actually be kicked off that.

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Speaker 6: Land or not.

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Speaker 7: So it's an ongoing issue.

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Speaker 2: It's so odd that this was picked up in the

401
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Speaker 2: Miami Herald.

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Speaker 7: I know, it just popped up in my news feed.

403
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Speaker 8: Like I looked around and didn't see too much.

404
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Speaker 7: It just happened. It's like this all went down just

405
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Speaker 7: like a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: Uh. Starting November four, is the last thing we're talking about.

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Speaker 4: Before we talk about what you're here to talk about?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, back, what are we talking about?

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Speaker 2: Starting November four, we got a new show called Rough

410
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: cuts with me dropping on Outdoor Channel and me Eater YouTube.

411
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Speaker 2: So it'll eight pm every Monday starting November four and

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Speaker 2: presented by Moultree.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we kind of covered off on that. What

415
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: year we covered off on the tribal history, but I

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Speaker 2: want to I want to back up now and get

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Speaker 2: into this real good. What year was or roughly when

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Speaker 2: was the Wind River Reservation established?

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Speaker 6: That was established in eighteen I think it was in

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Speaker 6: eighteen sixties. It was before the state of Wyoming it

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Speaker 6: even became a state.

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Speaker 4: Sixty eight I believe sixty eight stepping your toes, but

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Speaker 4: research eighteen sixty something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and at that time those thirty million acres for

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Speaker 2: a couple of years, uh and then also knows two.

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00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 6: It was like three. And then a few other things

427
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 6: happened where bureau wreck came in and a government agency

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Speaker 6: started taking some land. They opened it up for homesteading

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Speaker 6: for non natives in the area. There's a Recomation Act

430
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Speaker 6: that came in where you'll hear about the Big Horn

431
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 6: water rights and stuff, the tribal waters and everything else,

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Speaker 6: the conflict that we're dealing with there. And so when

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Speaker 6: that opened up, at the time the BIA superintendent wasn't

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Speaker 6: even a tribal member at the time. He was a

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00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 6: non native, and he started selling off portions of the reservation.

436
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 7: Just to can I interrupt, you explain what bia is?

437
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 6: BIA is the Barrel of Indian Fairs. My bad. I'm

438
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 6: just used to talk to everybody who knows where he is.

439
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 6: But yeah, and then so the Barrel of Indian and

440
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Speaker 6: Fares was run by non natives, and then when they

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00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 6: came in, they had the ability to sell portions of

442
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 6: the land. Anything around the river is anything that.

443
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: Would create what was that money?

444
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 6: It was airs. Whoever sold it got the money. So

445
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 6: the superintendent at the time got the money of the

446
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 6: land he sold at the time.

447
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: It didn't go back to the reservation.

448
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of fraud and misappropriation of funds

449
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 4: and stuff involved in that.

450
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 6: Yeah. And so the whole Bureau of Wreck irrigation system

451
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 6: on the Winter of Indian Reservation, it doesn't benefit any

452
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 6: tribal member on the reservation, goes bypasses a lot of

453
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 6: the reservation, goes into the river into the Boiston State

454
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 6: Park area, and just bypasses a big portion of the

455
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 6: Wind River itself and goes to agriculture for non natives

456
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 6: and then so a lot of that was built and

457
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 6: paid for by Bureau of Indian Affairs funding at the time.

458
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: So you paid to have the water bypassed.

459
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 6: Travel mind Yeah, yeah.

460
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 2: How does how does today? How does game fishing game

461
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: management work on your reservation? And is that consistent with

462
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: reservations at large in the West like game management?

463
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 6: So every reservation is different, every landscape is different. You know,

464
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 6: on the Winter of Indian Reservation, the Shishonian Rappop tribes

465
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 6: have the authority to manage their their landscape and their

466
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 6: wildlife fishing, wildlife we use. We're one of the only

467
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 6: reservations that use US fish and wildlife biologists on a

468
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 6: reservation to help manage our landscape. And so we which

469
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 6: is another unique thing is that we also work pretty

470
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 6: good in Indian country for a state and a reservation

471
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 6: that doesn't happen very well on other reservations.

472
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: Cooperation between the state and the reservation.

473
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 6: Yes, and so we we team up with them with

474
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 6: a lot of our grizzly bear studies, our mountain sheep

475
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 6: or our bighorn sheep and everything else that we have

476
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 6: on the reservation. You know, we want to were unique

477
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 6: because we really take pride on our conservation efforts on

478
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 6: the Wind River Reservation, and so we team up with

479
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 6: all these other biologists and so we work Hanahan with

480
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 6: the state and US Fishing Wildlife.

481
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 2: From an enforcement standpoint. And you spent years as a warden,

482
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: right like you spent years in law enforcement.

483
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I as a Bureau of Indian Affairs police officer,

484
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 6: so as a federal officer, and then I came over

485
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 6: to travel fishing game.

486
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: So if a if a Joe blow white guy like

487
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: me went on the wind Wind River Reservation and poached

488
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: a big horn, I'm in trouble. Not with the State

489
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: of Wyoming, I'm in trouble with you.

490
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 6: Well, you're in trouble with civilly. Travel fishing game will

491
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 6: come after you for your probably perfect credit score, and

492
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 6: then then we're gonna come after you federally with Lacy

493
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 6: Act charges with the US Fish and Wildlife Special Agent.

494
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 6: So not only are you civilly charged, so we can charge.

495
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: You twice, I mean the tribe can charge me.

496
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, we Well, the tribe can charge you civilly, and

497
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 6: then the US Fish and Wildlife will step in and

498
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 6: charge you, probably with the Fellamy case.

499
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: That would come from the US Fishing Wildlife Service. Yes,

500
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: because there's a lacy violation.

501
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 6: Is there a la it's a lazy violation because you're

502
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 6: on government land. So the land is still owned by

503
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 6: the US government. But we have the ability to manage

504
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 6: our own land, in our own natural resources.

505
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: But I'm familiar with this is such a rabbit hole.

506
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: But I'm for with the lasiac as applying to like

507
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: moving from one state to the other. But to move

508
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: on a reservation and off a reservation, does that count

509
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: as a LASIAC violation.

510
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 6: No, You'll have to get an interstate tag. You know,

511
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 6: we have to give you permission and everything else to leave.

512
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 6: So when you go from one reservation to another reservation,

513
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 6: you're just not from running reservation to the other. You're

514
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 6: going through state land and everything else. So there's an

515
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 6: interstate tag that you have to possessed with your travels.

516
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: And on the Wind River Reservation, hunting there is tribal

517
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: members only correct, Yes, and that also is different than that.

518
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: That's awful. Also managed differently on different reservations.

519
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, some reservations opened up bringing funding to their programs

520
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 6: and everything else like that. On the Wind River and

521
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 6: in reservation, we're kind of stingy with what we got.

522
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 6: But it's also wintering range for a lot of the elk, muldeer,

523
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 6: grizzly bears, wolves, everything else. The wintering range on the reservation.

524
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 6: The state benefits on how well we manage our wildlife

525
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 6: because we're in central Wyoming and so a lot of

526
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 6: the wildlife surrounding the reservation that you know, there's no boundaries,

527
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 6: there's no reservations to animals. They can come and go

528
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 6: as they please. And when we do better, the state

529
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 6: does better with a wild life yep.

530
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: And talk about what wildlife you have on the reservation.

531
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 6: We pretty much have everything Yellowstone has. After one hundred

532
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 6: and thirty something years, we finally got buffalo background the reservation,

533
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 6: which is huge. That program that Jason Ball does is

534
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 6: doing is he's doing a really good job at it.

535
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 6: And so we have grisse of bears, wolves, wolverines, prong

536
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 6: horned mule deer, elk, big orange, cheap yeah, I mean,

537
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 6: you name it, we got.

538
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: It, yep, mountain lions, black bears, everything, you know, everything

539
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: now not now probably a good number of wolves, oh yeah,

540
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: you know, And how does like for tribal members. How

541
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: does it work? What is the sort of tag system

542
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: you know? I mean you have things that are under

543
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: quotas and not under quotas. Is that correct?

544
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we have a huge number of white tailed

545
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 6: deer that's pretty unlimited antlope, nobody will hunt them up

546
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 6: on a reservation. So that's pretty much on limbit.

547
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: Did the elk each just not a popular animal for

548
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 2: members to hunt?

549
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 6: No, because we have I mean each enrolled tribal member

550
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 6: from both tribes gets four elk tags a year. You

551
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 6: get three calm calf tags, your rifle bull tag, and

552
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 6: then you get your archree.

553
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 7: How many people?

554
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 8: How many people live on the reservation and do you

555
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 8: know how many are like whatever active hunters or we have.

556
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 6: Probably a close to fifteen sixteen thousand tribal members from

557
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 6: both tribes on the reservation and we sell about eleven

558
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 6: hundred to twelve hundred hunting permits a year. It's that's

559
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 6: not very much at.

560
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 2: All, right, how much does a hunting permit?

561
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 6: Ten dollars for the permit, seven dollars per tag for

562
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 6: one hundred and thirty two bucks, I think you can

563
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 6: get thirty six tags or something like that.

564
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: And if if someone's working real hard. Well, if someone's

565
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: working really hard, do they have the ability to get

566
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: that many elk? Is it like if they if they

567
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: put the time and they could fill that many elk tags?

568
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,239
Speaker 6: Oh yeah yeah, pretty easy, especially for large families. So

569
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 6: we started a program. So like our bigger cheaps limited,

570
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 6: there's a quota we sell very few that's one hundred

571
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 6: dollars a tag. The moose quota that's one hundred dollars

572
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 6: a tag.

573
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: Are is that quota? Is that allotted through a lottery?

574
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, And so what we do is our meal deer

575
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 6: is fifty dollars trophy milier. The whole month of November,

576
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 6: you get to hunt trophy milderh. We do an entry

577
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 6: fee to put your application and it's a ten dollars fee,

578
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 6: and then we start at the beginning of the year

579
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 6: and we do the release the information who drew in April.

580
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 6: Later on in the year, I guess chance for everybody

581
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 6: to turn into their application. We take that ten dollars

582
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 6: and uh, my program and other programs go out and

583
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 6: we harvest elk and everything else are any cases that

584
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 6: we get from poaching and stuff, and we get the

585
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 6: meat processed and then we go out and we deliver

586
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 6: it to like thirty three families on the reservation, elders

587
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 6: and needy families.

588
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: What are the draw odds?

589
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 6: Way better than the states.

590
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: A tribal member will draw a big horned sheep tag.

591
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 6: It's I mean it. The odds are going down because

592
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 6: the population is going up. It is oh yeah, yeah.

593
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 6: So I mean we're trying to get tribal members so

594
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 6: involved with our program to support it and build it

595
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 6: and make it better. You know, I don't know how

596
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 6: many trouble youth are putting in for the sheep and

597
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 6: moose and trophy deer and stuff now that they didn't

598
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 6: do before, And so it's growing. I mean it's harder

599
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 6: and harder. I mean before I had pretty good chance

600
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 6: every three years I could draw a sheep tag or

601
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 6: a moose tag. Now it's because once you draw, you

602
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 6: have to wait three years and then uh then you

603
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 6: can draw again. Yeah, but now with you know the

604
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 6: number of hunters coming up, it's harder to draw.

605
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: Your So you've drawn some sheep tags, I draw a few, Yeah, congratulations,

606
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: I love it.

607
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 6: My favorite.

608
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if you can explain a bit more about

609
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 4: the different philosophies between different reservations in terms of using

610
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 4: you know, non uh tribal members as a source of funding,

611
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 4: because it does strike me as well, like I think

612
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 4: a lot of our listeners probably when they think about

613
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 4: hunting on reservations, they think about like high dollar auction

614
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: tags like in Arizona.

615
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 7: Especially, Like.

616
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 4: That's probably was this a conscious decision by by the

617
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 4: tribes to to you know, maintain that resource for tribal

618
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 4: members or sort of how is there pressure to open

619
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: it up? I'm just kind of curious, like what that

620
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 4: dynamic is, Like.

621
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, so there is pressure, I mean, but there's outside pressure, yeah,

622
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 6: to come in to open it up for that phenomenal

623
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 6: hunting area the tribes. You know, like I said before,

624
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 6: our conservation efforts ethics are so important to us that

625
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 6: you know, why not keep it just for ourselves? I mean,

626
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 6: when you start bringing in money and opening up that

627
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 6: slippery slope of different things happening and losing what you have,

628
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 6: maybe it's not even worth the chance of doing it.

629
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 6: And so you know, being a hunter there on myself,

630
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 6: I love the idea I have to you know, wait

631
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 6: line or being a populated area where you go on

632
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 6: state side, But you know there's boundaries, and then in

633
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 6: one area, I might see one or two tribal members

634
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 6: hunting on the side of this creek. On the other

635
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 6: creek the state. When we go up and patrol that

636
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 6: opening day, there's three to four hundred vehicles on the

637
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 6: state side, maybe one tribal member on our side.

638
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, because they're hoping to pick up elk coming off.

639
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 6: You're migrating back and forth.

640
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 4: There, gotcha?

641
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 6: How does it? How does uh so?

642
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 8: Like for the state, a lot of the funding for

643
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 8: wildlife management comes from license sales.

644
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 7: Where are you get.

645
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 6: So the state? The state gets funding from the license cells,

646
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 6: they get funding from taxes from ammunition and stuff like that.

647
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 6: The state has other different opportunities that they get different

648
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 6: funding from the winter reservation. We don't have those opportunities.

649
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 6: We don't get any tax money for to help support

650
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 6: travel fishing, game program and no, don't try to do

651
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 6: uh so. We get a lot of our funding through

652
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 6: the Bureau of Indian Fairs. We get a lot of

653
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 6: funding through the cell of our fishing permits. We only

654
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 6: allow fishing only on the winter and in reservation, and

655
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 6: so we try to market that and use that to

656
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 6: bring in more funding. The US Fishing Wildlie steps in

657
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 6: and helps out and then we we've since I've been there,

658
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 6: we've kind of reached out and started working with nonprofits

659
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 6: and everybody else to go after different types of funding

660
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 6: for different types of projects and stuff.

661
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 2: How much does it cost a non tribal member to

662
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 2: fish your reservation?

663
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 6: Different? I mean there's daily, weekly, monthly, and annually, and

664
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 6: so for about like one hundred ninety bucks you can

665
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 6: get an annual fishing permitt.

666
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: Okay, does your does your tribe have We had a

667
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: Klinget woman on the show and we're talking about the

668
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: Marine Mammal Protection Act and she is a seatter hunter.

669
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: The way the Marine Mammal Protection Act worked is they

670
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: establish what I'm sure you're familiar with, the term of

671
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: blood quantum, meaning that for Alaskan coastal Indigenous Coastal Alaskans

672
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: to participate in marine mammal hunting, they have to demonstrate

673
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: I believe it was twenty five percent Yeah, twenty five

674
00:38:53,560 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: percent ancestry to coastal Indigenous Coastal Alaskans. How does how

675
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 2: is tribal membership work for you? And then does that

676
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: have any implication on how you participate in hunting on

677
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: reservation lands.

678
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 6: So you're talking about a tribal ID card, and yes,

679
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 6: we all have tribal ID cards that identifies us as

680
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 6: what kind of Indian we are and how much that

681
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 6: quantum we have.

682
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: Oh do you have an ID card on you right now?

683
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: I do, and it says what kind of Indian you are?

684
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 2: Nor so, so if you get pulled over, you can

685
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: show this someone and.

686
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 4: Is that from Is that from the b I A

687
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 4: or is it from the okay.

688
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 3: Our tribal enrollment office?

689
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 6: Gotcha?

690
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: So if I came in, if I came in and married,

691
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: I'm already married. So this is just hypothetical. But if

692
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: I was to come marry a northern Arapahole woman expired

693
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: pulls badge. Oh yeah, Northern tribe arthur Awsome really yeah?

694
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: Oh degree of blood you're kidding me?

695
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 6: No? What mm hmm.

696
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: There's a number on there too, it's our serial number.

697
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 6: It's so it's it's it's like being prisoners of war. Uh,

698
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 6: it's like being in a prison. Uh. That car identifies

699
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 6: me of who I am, where I'm at, and uh,

700
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 6: oh I to put.

701
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: It, it's like name, rank and serial.

702
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: Number, right, you gotta if you if you consider.

703
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 6: Like, well, I'll say this, like if when I do

704
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 6: a lot of cearch and rescue missions on a reservation

705
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 6: for native and non natives, right and before uh, we

706
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 6: can bring in any military helicopters or equipment to help us,

707
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 6: we have to get approval through a general because reservations

708
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 6: are still considered war zones. Hmm wow.

709
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 5: So having that is not necessarily a mark of pride then,

710
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 5: or it can be.

711
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 3: In you've got it twofold like one is like, yep,

712
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 3: I'm an enrolled member. These are my people. I'm enrolled

713
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: and I'm in. You know, that's something that they can't

714
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: take from me. So yeah, you've got a sense of pride.

715
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: On the other hand, when you're looking at the history

716
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 3: of how they did that was because they were trying

717
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 3: to essentially breach you out and so then that blood

718
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 3: quantum lessons and lessons and lessons and so pretty soon

719
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: they're not going to have any and that was kind

720
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 3: of the idea of it. So colonialism was probably not

721
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 3: the greatest thing because because you have, you know, still

722
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: in Indigenous children who don't won't ever be able to

723
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 3: say that because they've had that mixed.

724
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: Uh, do you let me return to this hypothetical, Like

725
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 2: I marry I would marry a rap a hole woman

726
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: on Wynd River, I don't become a tribal member. Correct, Okay,

727
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: but our children.

728
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: Could potentially become If your wife was more than half,

729
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: if she was at least half, then your children would

730
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 3: be able to be enrolled because you have to have

731
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 3: a certain amount of blood quantum before you could be just.

732
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: And that's but that's specific on what tribe too.

733
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 6: Correct, It depends on each tribe.

734
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: Had the Cherokee have a different.

735
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 6: Who sets that the tribes they get to set the

736
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 6: all during their treaty rights and are working in their treaties,

737
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 6: they got to choose how they wanted to manage their

738
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 6: population and then their area. So they got they got

739
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 6: to choose how they wanted the blood quantum to work.

740
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 3: So in addition to that, like they have if like

741
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 3: our children, for example, are mixed Northern Arapaho and Ogalala,

742
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 3: and then his mom is also from a Quinault Indian,

743
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: so we've got that mixture and stuff. The Northern Arapaho

744
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 3: took all of that blood quantum and made our children

745
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 3: be almost like half Indian, so that.

746
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: I was going to ask about that question, could you

747
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: ever get could you ever be from different tribes? But

748
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: then wind up having not blood quantum because you're from

749
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: different tribes. So they'll accept the indigenous blood.

750
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 3: For my bloodline, though the Oglala would only accept the

751
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,959
Speaker 3: Oglala blood. So I have some rose bud on my side.

752
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 3: But because we're only enrolled in one, I only have.

753
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 2: Oklawa like your other indigenous ancestry doesn't count, didn't count

754
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:10,479
Speaker 2: to your Indian nests.

755
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: Right, although although I am considered more than half Indian,

756
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 3: more than half Native there, it didn't count in my

757
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: blood quantum, and so the blood quantum I gave to

758
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 3: my children was less, but the Northern ara Appaho counted

759
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: all of it and stuff. So which great, because you

760
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: know what, you're indigenous. You're indigenous. If you if you

761
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 3: have a family that you came from that was indigenous,

762
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 3: please say it, say it loud and be proud about it.

763
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: You know, have you ever heard of a marriage? Have

764
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: you ever heard of a marriage that was good or

765
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: people that were gonna get married or that were that

766
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 2: were that we're gonna have children, But then the woman

767
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: or the man was like, I can't do this because

768
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: you're not because my children will lose their tribal identity,

769
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: or my children will lose their tribal enrollment because you're

770
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: from outside, you're not indigenous, Like is this is this

771
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: like a thing that happens when people are finding mates

772
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: and growing up.

773
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 6: Earlier, I mean today's day. No, we don't hear of that,

774
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 6: but you know, like my grandparents, my parents maybe but

775
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 6: not not. You know, it's kind of you.

776
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 3: Sometimes hear of how they didn't want to of of

777
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 3: some tribes didn't want to. I didn't want you to

778
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 3: marry outside of your race because you would you would

779
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 3: water down your bloodline. But also you can't you can't

780
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 3: tell people who they can love, So.

781
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: About that.

782
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 7: Divorce you.

783
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 5: I have a Navajo friend who, though made it a

784
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 5: point she would not marry anyone outside of right, not

785
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 5: just her tribe, but I think there's a smaller.

786
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: Level of and they have plans.

787
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, so she would not even marry outside of her clan.

788
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 3: And that's a big thing. And I mean if you

789
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 3: think about how they how they raise their children and

790
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 3: stuff like that. The Navajo Nation is by far the

791
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: largest nation of indigenous people in our country. So and

792
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 3: you know, they keep their numbers the way they want to,

793
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 3: but you know, you still have you still have people

794
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: who trickle out and marry in and right.

795
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 4: I always I mean this is just a sort of

796
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 4: a non sequitor, but I'm always struck, Like with your

797
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 4: ID card, I feel like there's a lot of times

798
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 4: and you can just sort of walk through the world

799
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 4: and think like, oh, this is how this is how

800
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 4: things are, and you don't necessarily question things. But I

801
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 4: always find that when I'm traveling through a reservation, like

802
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 4: when you pull out that ID card, you realize how

803
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 4: profoundly people's individual lives are shaped by policy. And and

804
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 4: it's like the history is it is not history, it's

805
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 4: it's there in your wallet, right, like it's I don't know.

806
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 4: It's always very striking to me that because there's a

807
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 4: lot there's a lot of people out there that can

808
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 4: sort of go through the world Lottida and and uh

809
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 4: and not have to grapple with like those big questions.

810
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, not just through the world, but through the West. Yeah. Yeah,

811
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, drive all around it.

812
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 3: Their identity is in their pocket.

813
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, uh, subject change you have because you

814
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: have management authority over your reservation, wildlife management authority, all

815
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: kinds of other authorities, but let's talk about wildlife management authority.

816
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 6: Sovereignty, mostly because that's what we want to show the world.

817
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 6: Do we have sovereignty?

818
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 2: So you have sovereignty over this piece of ground. And

819
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: there's areas, there are areas in which US law, Wyoming

820
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: law ends, and tribal law picks up. One of the

821
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 2: areas that I think is of interest, and I know

822
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 2: that you guys have done a bunch of work around

823
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 2: this is we have a thing in the US. We

824
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: have the Wildhorse and Burrough Protection Act. Okay, because I'm

825
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 2: bringing this up, because you spent a ton of your

826
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: career on this issue. We have the Wild Horse and

827
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: Burrough Protection Act, which I'm gonna give a little background

828
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: kind of. If I screw this up, feel free to

829
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: crack me. It was in the seventies. Yeah maybe yeah,

830
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: So you know, I gonna go way back. I'm not

831
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 2: going to go back to when the earth's crusted first ceridified.

832
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back aways wild horses have been on

833
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: the landscape of the American West. See now I'm at

834
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 2: another crossroad. If Dan Flores was here, he'd want to

835
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: be talking about the place, the scene, and ice age horses.

836
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go back that far in the

837
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: sixteen hundreds horses. In the sixteen hundreds, late late, very

838
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: late fifteen hundred, sixteen hundreds horses were brought by the

839
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 2: Spanish to initially into Mexico. A lot of those horses

840
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: were brought up into New Mexico, and those horses were

841
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: proliferated across the West, both as owned horses used by people,

842
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: and also at that moment was the beginning of the

843
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: wild horse. Okay, the wild or, depending on your definition,

844
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: the feral horse, because he's they were brought as livestock.

845
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 2: They were brought here as saddle broke domestic livestock, but

846
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 2: they went feral quickly, just like pigs were brought to

847
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: what is now the United States of America. They've some people,

848
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: pigs have always some of these pigs have always been

849
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: owned and bred and kept his livestock, and some of

850
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 2: those pigs from day one have always run around as

851
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 2: wild pigs. So we have domestic pigs and we have

852
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 2: wild pigs. We've had domestic horses and we've had wild horses.

853
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: Six since the sixteen hundreds in this For a while,

854
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 2: the legal structure was such that you could just go

855
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: out and catch wild horses and you could sell them

856
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 2: to slaughter, and when the prices were pretty good, you

857
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 2: can make pretty good money. And during that time, wild

858
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: horse numbers got down low, and where people that were

859
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 2: big wild horse fans thought we need to protect the

860
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: remaining wild horses. And they made a tragic mistake. I'm

861
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: editorializing that was all just history. Now, I'm editorializing they

862
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: made a tragic mistake in the nineteen seventies and they

863
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 2: established a thing, a careful what you wish for thing

864
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: called the Wild Horse and Burrow Protection Act. And they here,

865
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: and they came and said, because there's not that many,

866
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 2: and people are being mean to them, and some people

867
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: like him, and some people like him, we hereby declare,

868
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: not only are wild horses wildlife, you cannot touch them,

869
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 2: you can't kill them, which is not something we've done

870
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: for We didn't do that for big horns, we didn't

871
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: do that for elk, we didn't do that for grizzly bears.

872
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 2: We didn't do that for any of our native wildlife.

873
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 2: But we bestowed upon the horse this sort of status

874
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: without anticipating where we'd be today, which is in areas

875
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: of Nevada, areas of Arizona, areas of Utah, most reservations,

876
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: most reservations where you now have feral horses that are

877
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: out competing native wildlife and in some cases degrading the landscape.

878
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 2: Heffelfingers shared with me, I can't remember where he did

879
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 2: he ride or where he got it. Someone made like

880
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: a man if horses were managed his wildlife. Here's what

881
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 2: management would look like with horses, A lot of harvest.

882
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 8: How many do you know how many are roaming around

883
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 8: the Western United States?

884
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 7: Total?

885
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 6: Total? No, that different reservations. Very we don't know the

886
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 6: exact numbers of how many other reservations had. You know,

887
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 6: we were sitting pretty close to ten eleven thousand far

888
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 6: horses on two million acres. Well you know, actually less

889
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 6: than that, like a million acres because the habitat area. Again, yeah,

890
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 6: so I think the last I heard Navajo Nation might

891
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 6: have one hundred thousand a Yakama was pretty close to

892
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 6: one hundred thousand.

893
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 2: Far horses.

894
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 9: Horses.

895
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of those. Because because of this,

896
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 2: this is last thing I say in the background, because

897
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 2: of this little problem they created that they you can't

898
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: hunt them, you can't send them to slaughter. What there's

899
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 2: so many of these things now that they're actually taking

900
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 2: them to eastern Kansas other areas where there's good grass growth,

901
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: hiring ranchers to move out of beef production. And then

902
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: they take tax pair of money and pay those ranchers

903
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 2: to house horses which they truck from the Aird West too.

904
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: And I went to I drove past a huge ranch

905
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: that is nothing but a guy that makes his money.

906
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 4: Babysitting fair horses.

907
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 7: Bay horse like a sanctuary. They don't use them for

908
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 7: any they don't.

909
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 6: We're feeding water in them until they die of old age.

910
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 6: You know, at the average costume Wyoming where we're from,

911
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 6: for for one horse is nine thousand dollars a year.

912
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 6: What so the the amount of horses that we removed,

913
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 6: we figured we saved tax payers seventy two million dollars.

914
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: Okay with that big old setup, now that was my setup?

915
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:29,959
Speaker 2: Is that okay?

916
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 6: Well set that up? Ye Okay.

917
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 2: Now let's break off and not break off and explain

918
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 2: the situation on your reservation and how you guys dealt

919
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: with dealt with the issue of competition with native wildlife

920
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 2: and habitat degradation and like kind of where you were

921
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: and where you're at now around wild horses fare horses.

922
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 6: So there's a lot of different issues with fare horses.

923
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 6: I mean, it's our livestock producers. You know, our numbers

924
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 6: have life producers on our reservation is not very big.

925
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:08,720
Speaker 6: Our livestock producers don't have the numbers of private state

926
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 6: producers have, so our numbers are really small. You know,

927
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 6: we have ninety something range units, so we have ninety

928
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 6: something producers and their herds are ten to maybe one hundred.

929
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 6: Hopefully they're at one hundred making a little bit of

930
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 6: a bit of anny.

931
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: You're talking like raise of beef cattle.

932
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, so tribal members who are are our producers. But

933
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,800
Speaker 6: with that we also have a ton of wildlife. You know,

934
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 6: we have huge pronghorn herd. We have meal or migrations

935
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 6: we have. We worked with the US Fish and Wildlife

936
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 6: in the state to bring in bighorn sheep into certain

937
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 6: areas the Washko Reservoir area, which is one area we

938
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 6: really try to take care of it and keep it

939
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 6: pristine for the cheap population to grow because you know,

940
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 6: sheep are also having issues, The milia are having issues,

941
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 6: all of our wildlife are having issues. And then we

942
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 6: just we're seeing that the damage that they were doing,

943
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 6: and the only thing that was growing back where these

944
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 6: big number of horses were at all over the different

945
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 6: parts of the reservation was we were only getting cheat

946
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 6: grass back. And then and then winters where we had

947
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 6: really bad winters, they were demolishing all the sagebrush habitat

948
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 6: for deer milder migration areas and then the wintering areas

949
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 6: for our milder and then we started started seeing a

950
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 6: big decrease on sage grouse and different types of birds

951
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 6: on the reservation. So our biologist teamed up with the

952
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 6: Bureau of Indian Affairs to say, we really need to

953
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 6: do something. We're at a crisis here. I mean, it's

954
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 6: getting so bad that we might even have to start

955
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 6: taking these range units away from tribal members because there's

956
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 6: not enough feed for production of just livestock. And and

957
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 6: so with that we came up with a plan where

958
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 6: I threw one hundred thousand dollars where we were hiding

959
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 6: tribal members or so like start catching them and just

960
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 6: start removing them. Let's ship them out and if there's

961
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 6: a buyer, there's a buyer. If not, well we'll just

962
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 6: give them away because there's just too many feral horses

963
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,720
Speaker 6: just damaging our landscape.

964
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 7: Are you under this?

965
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 8: Are you under the obligation to manage them?

966
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 7: Under that? Like they're they're still protected on the reservation.

967
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 7: You can't kill them.

968
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 6: No, they're not protected on the reservation, so.

969
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 2: They could you could, So you're you can totally live

970
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: outside of the Wild Horse and Burrow Protection Act. Yes, well,

971
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: you could have built the slaughter plant if you wanted to.

972
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 2: Could have.

973
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 6: But I don't know if we wanted to go that round.

974
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 6: Were you talking about non native trespassing? I think I

975
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 6: would have had a bunch of them. But you know,

976
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 6: and so we we started doing big roundups and we're

977
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 6: moving horses and.

978
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: Can can you tell how you caught them?

979
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 6: Well, if first we started catching them on horseback for

980
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 6: side by side. We didn't have funding to operate to

981
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 6: do these big projects. You know, we didn't have the

982
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 6: money obligated to us from anywhere to start doing this.

983
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: Tell me, like, I'm like, I'm five years old.

984
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 6: How you catch them? So we we'd purchase panels, we'd

985
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 6: send out a few people on horses, a few people

986
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 6: on dirt bikes or side by side forwarders, and to

987
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 6: just try to push them down an alley and get

988
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 6: them going one way and gather them. We're averaging like

989
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 6: twenty a month or so, you know, really small numbers

990
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 6: and stuff. But the Bureau of Land Management uses contractors,

991
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 6: and so we started meeting with the State of Wyoming

992
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 6: and other federal agencies on how we could do this

993
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 6: at a bigger rate. Because the state was like, those

994
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 6: horses are going to be our problem if you can't

995
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 6: remove them, because they're not going to stay on the

996
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 6: reservation if there's no feed, you know, so there's no

997
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 6: boundaries for horses or wildlife. You know, we could show

998
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 6: that in our meal migration that they're going to leave

999
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 6: the reservation because there's not enough feed.

1000
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 4: And the state can't do anything once they're outside the reservation.

1001
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 4: So they want you guys to succeed in your efforts.

1002
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't it a little bit depend on the area too,

1003
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean, if one did walk, if one

1004
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 2: walked out of wind River onto federal land. Is that

1005
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: part of it is that within wildhorse habitat, like what

1006
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 2: they call the wildhorse area.

1007
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 6: There's a lot of fencing and there's a lot of it.

1008
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 6: There was very many horses and others like that. So yeah,

1009
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 6: if they if they left the reservation and went on

1010
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 6: to federal properly, yeah, that's then that's their problem. But

1011
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 6: we have no problem with that. We'd push them all

1012
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 6: over there on that side.

1013
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1014
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 9: Uh.

1015
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 6: And so the state chipped in and said, well, well

1016
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 6: we'll help you out, and they give us enough funding

1017
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 6: or to remove like sixteen hundred horses, and then Berevin

1018
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 6: and Fair stepped in is like, this is a good project.

1019
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 6: Let's keep this going. And so three years we ended

1020
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 6: up removing seven six hundred and thirty three horses off

1021
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 6: the winter reservation. The results of that were overnight overnight results.

1022
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 6: One area, we removed eight hundred horses off this reservoir

1023
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 6: that was almost completely dry. I mean they just demolished

1024
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 6: that right.

1025
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: Like they drank it dry.

1026
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 6: Yeah. So you know, like here's your your natural springs

1027
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 6: and stuff would all kind of meet up at a

1028
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 6: drainage and then start filling up reservoirs and stuff. Well,

1029
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 6: they would stomp in those springs and everything else, and

1030
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 6: the reservoirs would get so full of that by the

1031
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 6: middle of the summer, they'd be completely dry. And we

1032
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 6: had eight hundred horses on one reservoir. The contractors push

1033
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 6: those out and we ended up catching half of those

1034
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 6: horses that day and then I mean the next morning

1035
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 6: at sun up, we had it over three hundred elk

1036
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 6: and on that same.

1037
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: Otive war because the horses kick them out.

1038
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, there's no national predter for horses. The grizzly

1039
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 6: bears won't bother them, wolf stoles then't bother them, mountain

1040
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 6: lions don't bother them, and elk don't like them. Elk

1041
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 6: don't like them, military don't like them. I'm really excited

1042
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 6: to see the outcome of the Mildia migration study that

1043
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 6: we're doing with the University of Wyoming. How if they're

1044
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 6: they're going to stay on the same route where they

1045
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 6: had to stay high and travel off the reservation into

1046
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 6: the Teton National Forest where they summer. If they now

1047
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 6: they have the abilit to go anywhere they want on

1048
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 6: a reservation because they don't have to compete for food.

1049
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 8: Is there a situation where you got to worry about

1050
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 8: the remaining horses their population blowing up again or is

1051
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 8: it a pretty Once you knock them down, they're probably

1052
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 8: gonna stay knocked down.

1053
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 6: The horse population doubles every four years, so we still

1054
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 6: have to do our management process of keeping those numbers down.

1055
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 6: And so, I mean it's that's like overnight. I mean,

1056
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 6: you will see five or six horses, you know, four

1057
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 6: years that number doubles just that fast. And so we

1058
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 6: now that we've got to a managing level where we

1059
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 6: want to sustain between one thousand and fifteen hundred fer

1060
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 6: horses on the reservation. We want to do little roundups

1061
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 6: and do things like the Honor Farm and everybody else

1062
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 6: is doing well. We could start breaking them. We could

1063
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 6: start using these horses for some of our back country

1064
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 6: outfitters in the fishing industry, or we could break them

1065
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 6: and sell them. I use them for something, you know.

1066
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 6: I mean, it's not like we have a me and

1067
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 6: heart and just want to go in there and destroy

1068
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 6: this whole population of feral horses. But yeah, and we

1069
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 6: get it. There's a lot of people on the reservation

1070
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 6: in the state of Wyoming that still use horses. But

1071
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 6: with technology and dirt bikes and side by side and

1072
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 6: four olders, you don't have to use a horse like

1073
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 6: you used to and and a lot of these horses.

1074
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 6: I mean we had brands on them, the ones that

1075
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 6: we caught. That's why I really expressed.

1076
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 2: How who had branded them?

1077
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 6: People from all over the United States. I mean we

1078
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 6: got brands from Iowa, Nebraska.

1079
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 2: Just all all over from people dumping them.

1080
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, people dump them. Yeah, you know.

1081
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 2: I years ago, I was working on a story about

1082
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 2: livestock theft, like contemporary cattle rustling, and uh, some of

1083
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 2: the stock detectives I was hanging out with made an

1084
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 2: interesting observation because I was asking about horse theft, and

1085
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 2: they said, when we had horse slaughter plants, there's Indiana,

1086
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: Texas had too. He goes, there was such a thing

1087
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 2: as horse theft. Now we have the opposite. There's the

1088
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,479
Speaker 2: opposite of horse theft. You don't wake up and see

1089
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 2: that your horses are gone. You wake up and see

1090
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 2: that you have new horses. Because people at that time,

1091
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 2: like there was no outlet. There's no outlet for lame horses.

1092
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 2: There's no outlet for old horses. There was a lot

1093
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 2: of drought that had riten driven down hay production, and

1094
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 2: they were too expensive to keep, and so people would

1095
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: just pull up at night and cut horses loose.

1096
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 6: I'm also a livestock investigator on a reservation and we

1097
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 6: have issues of that. I mean, we can we know

1098
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 6: when there's more horses showing up in certain areas. And

1099
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 6: the biggest thiefs on the reservation of stealing horses are

1100
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 6: the fer horses. They love every brand new panel, they

1101
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 6: love every brand new gate because they'll go in there

1102
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 6: and break them and so they can get to the

1103
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 6: other marriage and the other horses. And so next thing

1104
01:03:58,000 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 6: you know, you got branded horses running around all the

1105
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 6: and people are saying, well, I know they're not stolen

1106
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,919
Speaker 6: because I seen or heard of far horses running around God,

1107
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 6: and it became such a big issue. I mean when

1108
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 6: I say fences and gates, I mean I'm telling the truth.

1109
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 6: We it became such an issue, but that many for

1110
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 6: horses running around it maybe became a highway safety issue too.

1111
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 6: I mean, we were getting horses hit on some of

1112
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 6: our main roads, and that's why we became livestock investigators

1113
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 6: on the reservation so we can manage these horses. And

1114
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:28,479
Speaker 6: I mean, you don't know how many fences and stuff

1115
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 6: that we fixed. There's a tribal fishing game and the

1116
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 6: range unit with bure of Indian and fairs and stuff

1117
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 6: like that. It's just they just do a lot of damage,

1118
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 6: not just to the forage, but also fencing and everything else.

1119
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 5: It's so weird and unfortunate that the shift comes when

1120
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 5: something doesn't have a monetary value anymore. And I just wonder,

1121
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 5: you know, what it might take if there is anyone

1122
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 5: thinking about building or bringing back horse slaughter. I was

1123
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 5: going to ask you if you've ever You know, there

1124
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 5: are people in other countries and other places that are

1125
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 5: more open and amenable to either consuming horse meat or

1126
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 5: putting it in dog food or doing something with it

1127
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 5: that I think most Americans seem adverse.

1128
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 2: Do you know where Rocker Montana is?

1129
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 3: No.

1130
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 2: If you go over Homesteak Pass and you pass through

1131
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 2: Butte and then you come to Rocker Montana. You know

1132
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 2: those little coffee kios Yeah, on the vanguard of building

1133
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 2: coffee kios So I'm talking. This woman had a coffee

1134
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 2: kiosk in the late nineties in Rocker Montana. There was

1135
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 2: a novelty to see one back in them days. One day,

1136
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 2: I'm chatting her up as she's making a coffee, and

1137
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 2: you know, what her job was prior to opening a

1138
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: coffee Kiosk and Rocker, Montana. She would buy horses for

1139
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 2: the Japanese market. She would buy good looking meat horses

1140
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: and they would fly them on a ce one thirty

1141
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 2: wow to Japan and live to be caught in Japan.

1142
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 2: And those those horse slaughter plants was Illinois or Indiana?

1143
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 2: There was two in Texas.

1144
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 4: There's I think there's one in Illinois. Didn't blow up.

1145
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it wasn't like they didn't become

1146
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 2: federally illegal. It just became impractical and pressure to close them.

1147
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 2: I think you guys should I mean, how how open

1148
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 2: are you to a white guy telling you what you

1149
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 2: Indians are doing.

1150
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 6: I'm on the same page. I thought the same thing

1151
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 6: as myself.

1152
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 2: You know, you know what you people ought to do.

1153
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 5: I mean the Italians. I've eaten horse. The Italians make,

1154
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 5: you know, like they cure horse meat, just like a

1155
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 5: lot of them got park et cetera. And Italy is

1156
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 5: not the only country.

1157
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 4: Like after World War One there was a big there's

1158
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 4: a lot of horses rounded up and canned and shipped

1159
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 4: over to Europe because you know, food production was so

1160
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 4: low over in Europe after World War One. But I

1161
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 4: remember reading about that, like there's this huge craze. People

1162
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 4: were just going around and grabbing horses and uh canning

1163
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 4: them and sending him to Europe.

1164
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 2: I can't even remember I got I got a friend.

1165
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: I can't remember what year has happened. But he had

1166
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 2: to go to Uzbakistan for work. And his body's like, listen,

1167
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 2: you're gonna get there and they're gonna give you a

1168
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 2: big glass of mayor's milk. Just drink it. There's no

1169
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 2: getting around it. And he gets this big glass of

1170
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 2: mayor's milk and he's just dreading, so he just ns

1171
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: and he slams it. But he did it with too

1172
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 2: much gusto. They gave a refills. How many did How

1173
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 2: many do you think you guys had on the reservation?

1174
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 2: Ten thousand and what's a comfortable number?

1175
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 6: Thousand?

1176
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 2: Were some tribal members pissed because they could have gone

1177
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: out and caught horse, because were guys going out and

1178
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 2: catching them and breaking them?

1179
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, well there's there's no law, there's no act. I mean,

1180
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 6: both councils did a resolution. Were a tribal memory if

1181
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 6: you're in rolled off our reservation. You can want catch

1182
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 6: as many horses as you want, but brand it and

1183
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 6: then it belongs to you. And then if it's released,

1184
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 6: they catch it again, then we have the right for

1185
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 6: your your life stock trespassing. So if you're gonna catch it,

1186
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 6: keep it, sell it to whatever you want with it.

1187
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 6: So travel members can still go out and catch as

1188
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 6: many as they want.

1189
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: Okay, but that the incentive isn't strong enough for tribe, Like,

1190
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 2: the economic incentive isn't great enough to keep up with

1191
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 2: the with the production of the horses.

1192
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 6: You're gonna spend more in fuel and food catching horses

1193
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 6: than you are gonna sell them. And I like I said,

1194
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 6: the average cost for a horse didn't stay a whom

1195
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 6: He's nine thousand a year. You know, it gets pretty

1196
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 6: pricey when I keep it manage horses.

1197
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So when you buy a horse, I mean I'm

1198
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 2: not talking about reservation just in general, when you buy

1199
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 2: a horse, it's not the purchase price that's getting you,

1200
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 2: it's maintenance.

1201
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 6: Well, it depends if you get a good quality horse.

1202
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 6: I mean they're twenty thirty thousand dollars, yeah, and then

1203
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 6: the maintenance after that, I mean you have to have

1204
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 6: pretty good hey, make sure you know they don't blow up.

1205
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 3: And if you're spending that much money on a horse, yeah,

1206
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 3: you want to make sure they're feaking right.

1207
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, then you gotta do your vet bill. You got

1208
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 6: brand inspections, you gotta. I mean, it's like on in

1209
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 6: a vehicle. You got to take care of it.

1210
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 2: But are are any of those Are those feral horses

1211
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 2: that are on Wind River? Do they ever have the

1212
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 2: potential of being a high dollar saddle horse?

1213
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 6: Yes, they can, like the horses that were branded, and

1214
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 6: then you know we throw breads, I mean some big

1215
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 6: livestock or you know that they use for bare back

1216
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,759
Speaker 6: and everything. Horses that could barely get into our pineals

1217
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,600
Speaker 6: because they were so big. Yeah, there's a chance. And

1218
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 6: you can tell the horses that were there for a

1219
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 6: longer time or smaller and bread not very good horses

1220
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 6: at all. There's nothing you could That's what I was

1221
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 6: going to ask.

1222
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 8: Can you look at them and be like, well, that

1223
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 8: one has some potential to be a workhorse or a

1224
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 8: riding horse, and that one will never will never be

1225
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 8: able to tame that thing.

1226
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 6: The horses has about the same size of its body. Yeah,

1227
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 6: you know, you know, yeah, I mean, you can really tell.

1228
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 6: You can tell the difference. And uh, when you see

1229
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 6: one that's just beautiful and you know, coming in from

1230
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 6: a distance, and then when you get it to the

1231
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 6: trap or the panels, oh there's a brand. Yeah, that

1232
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 6: could be a pretty good horse. Well that's running with

1233
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 6: all these other horses, and you know it's you can

1234
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 6: tell them. And but when you start dealing with the

1235
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 6: studs of those different herds, truly like wild wild ones. Yeah,

1236
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 6: the ones that had never been cut or anything else

1237
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 6: are mean. I mean they are aggressive. You've seen a

1238
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,560
Speaker 6: wolf forare mountain line attack anything where they bite the

1239
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:43,759
Speaker 6: neck and start shaking their heads and stuff. Those studs

1240
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,520
Speaker 6: are just as mean as any of those other predators.

1241
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 6: I mean, we've seen studs kill other studs just to

1242
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 6: keep their away with their teeth, with their teeth, kicking,

1243
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 6: biting anything they can.

1244
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 3: Their hooves are so sharp.

1245
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 2: Do you guys keep horses of your own?

1246
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 5: No?

1247
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 3: We used to, Yeah, year we no longer play with livestock.

1248
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 2: What was the outlet for all the horses you caught?

1249
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 6: So we, uh, we pretty much just gave him away.

1250
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 6: We gave them to Mexico, Canada, whoever, whoever wanted to

1251
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 6: would take them. We helped pay for the shipping and

1252
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 6: everything else.

1253
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 3: They paid for, like the vets and everything like that.

1254
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 6: It's not a money maker. We did brand inspections, we

1255
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 6: used the state brand inspectors, state vets. So we did

1256
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,759
Speaker 6: everything legal and we did you know, we documented everything

1257
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 6: and we did the process of shipping off. Whoever wanted

1258
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 6: them could take them. I have horse sanctuaries one of them,

1259
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 6: they could have them. We did as long as they

1260
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 6: did destroying our wildlife habitat. We we we really didn't care.

1261
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 4: Base based on the results that you're getting, have other

1262
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 4: tribes come in to try to learn from the program

1263
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 4: that you've initiated. I mean, obviously, like outside of Indian country,

1264
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 4: the wild horse and brow protection are prevents anybody from

1265
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 4: really learning a lesson. But other tribes could implement similar programs.

1266
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 6: Right Yeah. And a lot of it is looking for funding,

1267
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 6: looking for opportunities to get stuff like that up. Ago

1268
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 6: and I did the presentation at the sheep so Reno

1269
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 6: last year, and we had a lot of trouble programs

1270
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 6: and stuff there, And so I mean, we're willing to

1271
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 6: help out whoever whenever. Any other other nation we're we're

1272
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 6: willing to help out other tribes.

1273
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 3: It's basically finding finding the funding, having them find the

1274
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 3: funding to be able to pull off an operation that big,

1275
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 3: and then finding the buyers or or the transporters to

1276
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,600
Speaker 3: be able to get them to where they need to go.

1277
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 6: There's no we're all, there's no it's it's not a

1278
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 6: money maker right there. There's no profit into it.

1279
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, fills of money maker probably wouldn't become

1280
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:47,799
Speaker 2: a problem.

1281
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 3: It wouldn't have been yet.

1282
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1283
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, And like you know, we talked about our controvation ethics.

1284
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 6: I mean, we were when River was the first one

1285
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 6: with the Wilderness Act. We were three our nineteen thirties.

1286
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 6: We were before anybody else in the United States.

1287
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: You guys created a wilderness area.

1288
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 6: We were the first one the roadless areas. Yep.

1289
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: I can we back up? I want to hear about this,

1290
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 2: but I got one final last horse question. If you

1291
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 2: catch a okay, you catch a branded horse and you're like,

1292
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 2: what in the world this horse is from some guy

1293
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 2: in Colorado? Is he all right?

1294
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 6: Do you?

1295
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 2: Can you say to him listen, man, come get your

1296
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 2: horse like the dog. I'm not going to pay money

1297
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: to ship your horse to you. Your horse is here,

1298
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: come get it.

1299
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,600
Speaker 6: Oh well, we'll impound those horses. We'll get ahold of

1300
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 6: the owner to the brand inspection, to the state. Uh well,

1301
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 6: inform him, inform him that you know, it cost me

1302
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 6: two hundred and fifty bucks to catch this horse, plus

1303
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 6: forty dollars a day for feeding water. So every day

1304
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 6: that we we haul this horse while we're gonna civilly

1305
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 6: charge you the amount that it cost us to a

1306
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 6: house this horse and deal with it unless you want

1307
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 6: to come up to win River and sign off and

1308
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 6: saying that the tribes are ownership and then we could

1309
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 6: do what we want with it. And that's how it

1310
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,640
Speaker 6: usually works most of the time. They just sign off

1311
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 6: on them. Yeah people, because yeah, we have we've been

1312
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 6: pounded twenty two twenty three certified quarter horses and the

1313
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 6: lady ended up paying almost twenty five thousand to get

1314
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 6: them out of inpound.

1315
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 2: Wow, how did they lose? I have a second horse?

1316
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,839
Speaker 2: So did she lose horses?

1317
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 6: Livestock trespassing is still an issue in the West. She

1318
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 6: turned them out, well yeah, and depended on somebody else

1319
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 6: to manage them and take care of them for her.

1320
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 6: But they got loosed, and I mean they got let loose,

1321
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 6: and and she was good, grass is greener on the

1322
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 6: other side. And so yeah, they they ended up on

1323
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 6: the reservation and we impounded them, and.

1324
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 2: They didn't come knock and saying, hey, I think my

1325
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 2: horse is around your place, so I should try to

1326
01:14:58,280 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 2: go to find them.

1327
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 6: No want that. We we had five semis and we

1328
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 6: were going to impound eighty six pairs of cows beef

1329
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 6: on the reservation that somebody was trespassing on. And so

1330
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,799
Speaker 6: it's it is an issue, I mean kind of wrestling

1331
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 6: and everything back in the West. We still there's still

1332
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 6: a lot of that going on on the reservation.

1333
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:22,600
Speaker 2: Wind River may their wilderness.

1334
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 6: Area yep, first ones.

1335
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 2: How did you guys define it? Like, how did it work?

1336
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 6: So it was it was between the tribes, US fish

1337
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 6: and Wildlife, the Forest Service. There was a it's such

1338
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,640
Speaker 6: a unique area. The winter over mountain ranges is so phenomenal,

1339
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 6: and you know, they had a meeting about how how

1340
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 6: do we protect this place, how do we keep this pristine,

1341
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 6: how do we keep it looking like the eighteen hundreds

1342
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 6: and stuff, and so tribes are like, well, we'll just

1343
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,639
Speaker 6: close it all off. So they have areas where they'll

1344
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 6: never do any production on the reservation. So you know,

1345
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 6: you know when you go up to the sland snow

1346
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 6: line of certain areas, you know there's no uh habitat

1347
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,560
Speaker 6: wilderness area. They the tribes brought that clear down to

1348
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 6: the snow line and decided that we are not going

1349
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 6: to have any production in these areas because we want

1350
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 6: to protect our wildlife. And so we're we'll have no housings,

1351
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 6: no businesses, no no roads, anything else. And so we're

1352
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 6: these areas are we're going to protect.

1353
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:24,759
Speaker 2: How big are some of those areas?

1354
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 6: So the our all wilderness area is like one hundred

1355
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 6: and eighty eight thousand acres.

1356
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 2: That's great, man, that's huge. That's probably sheep country.

1357
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, sheep country. Well, moose mule there, you know those

1358
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 6: high country mule. There a lot of elk habitat areas

1359
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:43,599
Speaker 6: and stuff.

1360
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 2: Man, I want to come home this place.

1361
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,599
Speaker 5: Talk to oh man, you gotta become reborn in the different.

1362
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 6: Well, I'm not going to marry.

1363
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 2: You had a guy. You had a guy. You had

1364
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 2: a guy that did put a monetary value on a

1365
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 2: sheep tag, right like you had a few.

1366
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 6: They could be quite valuable a few, yes, especially at

1367
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 6: the sheep show. I mean we're we house. We take

1368
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 6: care of some of the biggest wild sheep herds in

1369
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 6: the lower forty eighths with the State of Wyoming and

1370
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 6: same thing. They migrate on and off the reservation and stuff,

1371
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 6: and so we do tremendous amount of work with bighorn sheep.

1372
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 6: I mean it's emovi pneumonia, the disease that domestic sheep

1373
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 6: give to the wild sheep and stuf.

1374
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 7: Is there domestic sheep on the reservation.

1375
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 6: Or is it mostly surrounding the reservation on the state side.

1376
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,599
Speaker 6: There was a few domestic sheep back in the day,

1377
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:49,800
Speaker 6: but there's no value marketing to that either. So we

1378
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 6: do a lot of work with the state and the

1379
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 6: Feds and stuff to protect those those sheep herds and stuff.

1380
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:57,840
Speaker 2: So how many bighorns might be on the reservation at

1381
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 2: any given time at the right time, I don't know

1382
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 2: what the right time of year is, but a couple

1383
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 2: of thousand, and they're using your land. Uh, they're using

1384
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 2: wind River winter or summer.

1385
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:12,640
Speaker 6: I see they start moving in in the fall and

1386
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:14,679
Speaker 6: something like the big rams. They don't even leave the area.

1387
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 6: They'll stay there all year. A lot of the ewes

1388
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 6: Uh they migrate back and forth at different places. And

1389
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 6: then it also depends on predator situations, wolfs, everything else

1390
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 6: that's chasing them around and stuff. You know, it's it's wildlife.

1391
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 6: They you don't really know what they're gonna do. But

1392
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 6: we do have a good population of sheep.

1393
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 2: With your buffalo program, are you trying to bring in

1394
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 2: sort of tribally owned free ranging herds or are you

1395
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 2: having are you trying to establish tribal members as producers

1396
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 2: for the for the market both both okay both.

1397
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:58,679
Speaker 6: One of the big reasons why we wanted to remove

1398
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 6: feral horses is so that there was forged to release

1399
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 6: a buffalo on our reservation so tribal members can have

1400
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 6: the opportunity to harvest like we used to. And then

1401
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 6: we also saw there's a few producers that want to

1402
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 6: go into the buffalo market, and the tribes already have

1403
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,719
Speaker 6: there's two herds right now, the Eastern Shoshoni Northern Rappo

1404
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 6: each have their own herds that they're trying to grow

1405
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 6: and release so tribal members can harvest right now. When

1406
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 6: we do harvest, it's usually we have a tribal youth

1407
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 6: come in and do it and stuff like that, and

1408
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 6: so we make it a huge educational experience for the

1409
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 6: tribal youth and elders to come in and talk about

1410
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 6: it and relive history.

1411
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 2: What time of year does that happen.

1412
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 6: It happens to different parts of the year. We're actually

1413
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 6: going to do another one here pretty soon, I think

1414
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 6: in a couple of weeks.

1415
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 2: Would you ever let us come down and watch that?

1416
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 6: That so to me, Yeah, I mean i'd be great,

1417
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 6: but I get everything to proved through both councils. I

1418
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,439
Speaker 6: work for both tribes and so I usually I have

1419
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 6: to ask permission from them for approval for anything.

1420
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be cool to talk to the kids

1421
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 2: and stuff who were involved.

1422
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, and we, I mean our youth program that we

1423
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 6: do on the reservation is that we have more pride

1424
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 6: in that than we do catching horses.

1425
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 4: Do you have Do you have tribal members that come

1426
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 4: up and do the the hunt out of the park here?

1427
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1428
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, gardener yeah, oh well yeah, yeah, we're taught

1429
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 6: a big fan.

1430
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 2: Tell me what you mean.

1431
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 6: You show up to one little area, you wait for

1432
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 6: the buffalo to migrate, and then you stand in line.

1433
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 2: And also you're not a big I don't know if

1434
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:42,680
Speaker 2: you meant you're not a big fan of that management strategy,

1435
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:44,879
Speaker 2: but you mean just the experience, isn't.

1436
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, I want to harvest buffalo. I want to

1437
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 6: go out and go earn it and work for it.

1438
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,600
Speaker 6: And then do you know, like we do elk or

1439
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 6: hear or anything else?

1440
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 2: Can I can I give a little background on this,

1441
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 2: and then again you can crack me if I screw

1442
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 2: something up. All right, So we've talked about this bunch

1443
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 2: over the years. But I don't know, man, if you

1444
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 2: go back to the I guess it'd be the late nineties,

1445
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:12,560
Speaker 2: buffalo numbers in Yelsow National Park got up enough. Like

1446
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 2: a good way to think about it is they can

1447
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,759
Speaker 2: usually hold three or four thousand, This is generally accepted number.

1448
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 2: But now and then it'll jump. It'll be seven or

1449
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 2: eight thousand. And when they get the certain numbers in

1450
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 2: the park and you get to a certain severity of

1451
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 2: winter in the park, the animals will move out of

1452
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 2: the park. They'll go out into West Yellowstone area and

1453
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 2: they'll come out the north entrance into the Upper Yellowstone

1454
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:42,480
Speaker 2: Valley in the gardener Historically, like of all native wildlife.

1455
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 2: That's the only one that loses its wildlife status as

1456
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 2: it crosses a boundary, meaning grizzly bear, wolverine, elk, big horn,

1457
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:59,680
Speaker 2: sheet meal deer, white tailed deer, pronghorn, anaelope, any of

1458
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 2: these animals. If he leaves the park, he remains wildlife

1459
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 2: right at that the minute of buffalo leaves Yelsol National Park,

1460
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 2: even though it's native wildlife, the minute it walks out

1461
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 2: of the park, it fell under the jurisdiction of the

1462
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 2: Department of Livestock. It became like free ranging livestock. You

1463
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 2: don't like this.

1464
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 6: I don't like the rabbit hole you're going down too,

1465
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 6: because I could sit here for days and go over this.

1466
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'll back out of the rabbit hole. I'm

1467
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 2: just trying to lead up to this. Some years it

1468
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 2: got to where the in Montana, it got to where

1469
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 2: the Department of Livestock was getting shooting a bunch of them.

1470
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 2: They shoot them, they cut them, send them off the

1471
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 2: slaughter and after a while, I think it was in

1472
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:48,599
Speaker 2: the early two thousands, a bunch of tribes in the West,

1473
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 2: like any tribe that had a historical claim to the

1474
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 2: presence on that landscape, and there could be the Nez

1475
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,600
Speaker 2: Perce who would come from from Washington and Idaho and

1476
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 2: they would have come in that area. Su would come

1477
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:03,799
Speaker 2: in that area. There's like the history of the Blackfeet

1478
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 2: coming in that area, like all over the Flathead tribe.

1479
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 4: Right, sailors, like all these people all part of their

1480
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 4: treaty rights.

1481
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would all utilize the area. And so a

1482
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:16,839
Speaker 2: bunch of tribes maybe this is this is my understanding,

1483
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 2: correct me, I'm wrong, A bunch of tribes that listen,

1484
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 2: if if you're gonna be doing all this harvest, our

1485
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 2: tribal members are going to come exercise treaty rights and

1486
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 2: we're gonna do some harvests. And they also they do

1487
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,599
Speaker 2: the tribal hunts like tribes have. They just come when

1488
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 2: that's the right time when they're coming out. And then

1489
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 2: the state also conducts like a public draw hunt, which

1490
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 2: usually comes later and which comes later in the year.

1491
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 2: Is that all fairly okay?

1492
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:44,360
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1493
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 2: Now what was the part I said something that you

1494
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 2: didn't like the sounds of.

1495
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 6: It's just it's a rabble hole. I mean, I could

1496
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 6: issues all day along with how buffalo are treated through

1497
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 6: livestock and the burcelosa's issues and everything else. You know,

1498
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:04,360
Speaker 6: we there's still no not one case ivan scientifically proven

1499
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 6: that a buffalo ever gave livestock.

1500
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 2: It's a red herring. So it's a thing. It's a

1501
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 2: thing that people bring up because it's it's like people

1502
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 2: bring up brucellosis because it's easier than bringing up what

1503
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:23,480
Speaker 2: they're really talking about. What they're talking about is competition

1504
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 2: with cattle.

1505
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 6: That's all about money.

1506
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 2: Fencing issues. But they say brucellosi is like, okay, well,

1507
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 2: if brucellosis is the issue, then why don't we kill

1508
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:32,639
Speaker 2: every elk?

1509
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1510
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 2: Why is no one talking about killing every elk who

1511
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 2: also has brucellosis.

1512
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:40,839
Speaker 6: Exactly?

1513
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:45,879
Speaker 2: It's like, how this how this brucellosis thing is still discussed,

1514
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:50,719
Speaker 2: blows my mind when it's it's not happened and elk

1515
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 2: have it. If you came in Montana and you ran

1516
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,720
Speaker 2: on if if a politician in Montana came and said,

1517
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:58,599
Speaker 2: I got an idea, there's a risk that elk will

1518
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,679
Speaker 2: pass brucellosis to cat, so we'd like to kill all

1519
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:02,200
Speaker 2: the elk.

1520
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:06,440
Speaker 7: There's a lot of elk share in the landscape.

1521
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:10,320
Speaker 2: Like people would be like, are you insane? But that's

1522
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 2: but you can say it with buffalo.

1523
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 6: Well yeah, well, and you can say far horses are

1524
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 6: wild horses and they're good for the habitat area. They're not.

1525
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 6: We have scientific proof that that's not the case. You know,

1526
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:27,240
Speaker 6: how can certain groups have the ability to stop and

1527
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:30,320
Speaker 6: manage and stop things from happening? You know, it doesn't

1528
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 6: make any sense to me, you know, I, like I said,

1529
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,719
Speaker 6: we really take pride in our controvation ethics and stuff.

1530
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:41,080
Speaker 6: And so again, maybe thirty years from now, Oh yeah,

1531
01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 6: farrow horses are a bad idea. Let's get rid of them, yeap?

1532
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:48,640
Speaker 2: What will your what would be a perfect scenario for you,

1533
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 2: like if you think of a if you think of

1534
01:25:51,439 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 2: a a wild tribally owned buffalo herd and when river,

1535
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 2: what would be a number if you like, what would

1536
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,640
Speaker 2: be a number of animals that would be plausible.

1537
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 6: For buffalo herd?

1538
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1539
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 6: Oh, it'd be in the thousands, you think so?

1540
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you could have heard it would rival the

1541
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:15,280
Speaker 2: size of Yellowstones.

1542
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, we'd have an area, we have areas big

1543
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:20,760
Speaker 6: enough that we could manage to We could migrate from

1544
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:26,760
Speaker 6: south of the Big Wind and head north into the

1545
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 6: out Creic Mountain. Range and stuff and then come back.

1546
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 6: You know, they'd have enough room to roam a lot

1547
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 6: of that area. You know, a couple thousand buffalo would

1548
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 6: be a lot better than ten thousand four horses. Sure, man,

1549
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 6: And you know how good you know, you know what buffalo,

1550
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 6: how good they are for an environment and how they

1551
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 6: bring back the forage and make everything better. You know

1552
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 6: it would if we could get those numbers up and

1553
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 6: release them and start moving buffalo right away. I think

1554
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 6: our forage and our landscape would turn around and come

1555
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:01,439
Speaker 6: back faster than what we're planning on doing with Fremont

1556
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 6: County Waton past spraying we drew and trying to grow

1557
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 6: back that that doesn't exist there anymore.

1558
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, how would you how would you get him? Are

1559
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,719
Speaker 2: are you guys eligible to get park ones?

1560
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 6: So right now Jason bald is doing a phenomenal job.

1561
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 6: He's getting like our own quarantine facility and everything else.

1562
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 6: I mean, this guy is killing it and bringing the

1563
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 6: buffalo back and doing a phenomenal job of bringing them back.

1564
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 2: And so I think, and he's a tribal member, Yeah.

1565
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 6: He's an Eastern Shoshoni tribal member, and then Northern Rappo.

1566
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,920
Speaker 6: He kind of oversees both programs, Shoshoni's and a rappoles,

1567
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 6: and he goes after all the funding and it helps

1568
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:40,599
Speaker 6: bring back purchase land and ranging. It's from barre Obnion

1569
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 6: first to manage his buffalo.

1570
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 2: Got it. And when you have if you were to

1571
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:49,760
Speaker 2: have tribal members become producers too to sell in, that

1572
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,840
Speaker 2: would be a totally separate program or where the two

1573
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 2: programs kind of meld in some way.

1574
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 6: They'd probably kind of meld in some way. I mean

1575
01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:58,959
Speaker 6: we we would definitely have to kick back in Barobini

1576
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 6: infairs to help manage that. And I'll oversee everything stuff,

1577
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 6: make sure the range units, defencing, everything is protected and

1578
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 6: belt right.

1579
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there are guys that maybe do beef now

1580
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:09,679
Speaker 2: that would would like to go into that market.

1581
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 6: There's a few that we know of. Yeah, we've been

1582
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 6: in conversations with a few. Because I also have to

1583
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 6: do a lot of work with the livestock producers on

1584
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:17,559
Speaker 6: the reservation too.

1585
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:22,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, does a does a livestock producer on the reservation

1586
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 2: does he have to buy does he have to lease

1587
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,599
Speaker 2: grazing rights from the tribe least.

1588
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 6: Graze rights in different range units. So there's like ninety

1589
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:33,639
Speaker 6: something different range units on the reservation. Some are shared,

1590
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 6: some are just wow one producer.

1591
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, uh, help me understand this, this this question

1592
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 2: for both of you. How do you how do you feel.

1593
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 5: Like?

1594
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:52,040
Speaker 2: If I say, what do you think? If I say Indian?

1595
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,080
Speaker 2: What do you think? If I say Native American? What

1596
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 2: do you think? If I say indigenous? Am I saying all?

1597
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 2: Is to use it all the same word? Or is

1598
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,800
Speaker 2: there a way that you'd prefer for not how you

1599
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 2: talk about you? Is there a way you prefer me

1600
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 2: to talk about you to you? To Randall like, is

1601
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,400
Speaker 2: there a word that I say that You're like, uh,

1602
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 2: disappointed that I would say that word? Not to me, no,

1603
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 2: but to him.

1604
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 3: If I said talk, if you were having a private

1605
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 3: conversation with between you and random, and he would say,

1606
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,840
Speaker 3: do you mean Indians or Indians?

1607
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 6: What are you talking about?

1608
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:41,680
Speaker 3: What type of Indians are you talking about? Whereas if

1609
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:45,679
Speaker 3: you say, I'm we're talking to some an indigenous couple

1610
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 3: today she's from South Dakota and he's from Wyoming, or

1611
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,840
Speaker 3: two Native Americans coming, I.

1612
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:55,639
Speaker 2: Mean, that's that's better.

1613
01:29:55,800 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 3: The better way I would say, I don't know you're

1614
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 3: going to talk to me you're going to talk to nobody.

1615
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:07,479
Speaker 2: No not, I mean I can't, but I'm asking asking you.

1616
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 3: I mean, if you didn't realize where your audience was,

1617
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:15,320
Speaker 3: like who is standing behind you as you were saying it?

1618
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:19,320
Speaker 3: How would you say it? You know, that's that's your

1619
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:25,479
Speaker 3: internal compass telling you how you should address people.

1620
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:31,040
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, uh, I think what could like where I

1621
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 2: find confusion about and the reason I'm asking and I think,

1622
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 2: I mean and I can tell you, I can promise

1623
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,560
Speaker 2: you in my world, the confusion and sort of apprehension

1624
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:44,840
Speaker 2: is widespread, right because you you'd hear, you know, you

1625
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 2: hear a politician and your tribal members say Indian country.

1626
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 2: I would have a very hard time saying I was

1627
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,560
Speaker 2: over an Indian country, like I just I don't know.

1628
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 2: That strikes me somehow.

1629
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:13,519
Speaker 3: It's more of the the historical commonplace that it's been

1630
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 3: called Indian country if you think about it in terms

1631
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 3: of what it actually is. They're more of in tournament camps.

1632
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 3: And we're still living on federal land that is given

1633
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 3: to us, and we're gonna call it and the and

1634
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,599
Speaker 3: the federal government's gonna call it Indian country.

1635
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:42,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1636
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,640
Speaker 6: Well, even on every old map that you see. I

1637
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,719
Speaker 6: mean every in the history books, you know those lines

1638
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 6: everything is Indian Country, and then then you have the

1639
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:52,360
Speaker 6: names of the different tribes and stuff there. So through

1640
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 6: through history it's always been called Indian country, you know,

1641
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 6: through the wars and everything else.

1642
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:03,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had uh, I guess I find myself casually

1643
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 2: saying like, like random, I will be like Indigenous Native

1644
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 2: American Indian. It's just like, you know, yeah, that's what

1645
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:12,720
Speaker 2: I want to say. You know, I'm just asking do

1646
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:13,240
Speaker 2: I want to know?

1647
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:15,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Thank you for asking?

1648
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's my next question. Does it bother you

1649
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 2: that I'd ask?

1650
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 6: No, it's more surprising. It's more surprising that somebody would ask.

1651
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 6: Somebody did ask.

1652
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,320
Speaker 2: Well. I could also see you thinking, do I really

1653
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 2: have to tell you this?

1654
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think for us, you know, because we're right,

1655
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 4: we're we're working on historical projects, right, and I think

1656
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 4: our best practice has always been, like, when you can

1657
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 4: specify someone's individual identity or their tribal identity, that's that's

1658
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 4: the best practice, right, and recognize that person and who

1659
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 4: they are. But a lot of times when we're going

1660
01:32:56,479 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 4: through primary sources, you just get a reference to you know,

1661
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 4: we saw an Indian, and so you're sort of left

1662
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:06,680
Speaker 4: maybe guessing as to who that is. But it's just

1663
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:09,400
Speaker 4: something that we run into in the work that we

1664
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 4: do in terms of our writing projects.

1665
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've even put that sort of clarifire and we

1666
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 2: did one we did a American history piece on the

1667
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:25,439
Speaker 2: deer skin trade of the Eastern Seaboard and Appalachia, and

1668
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:27,640
Speaker 2: that was called like the Long Hunters, and it was

1669
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 2: seventeen sixty three to seventeen seventy five, and it focused

1670
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 2: on the deer skin trade. In explaining the landscape, like

1671
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 2: how we're going to talk about it, we talked about

1672
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 2: where possible identify like the individual, where possible identify the tribe.

1673
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:55,760
Speaker 2: But oftentimes when dealing with descriptions of written record, it's

1674
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:59,439
Speaker 2: just there is no tribal identification right and right now

1675
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:02,080
Speaker 2: we're working on one about the Mountain Man era, which

1676
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 2: is like the beaver skin trade. So the height of

1677
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 2: like the height of the beaver market, which we kind

1678
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 2: of bracket off as being I don't know, it's a

1679
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 2: hard The end bracket is eighteen forty. The beginning bracket

1680
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 2: is like somewhere around eighteen four eighteen ten. Like the

1681
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 2: height of the beaver skin trade when these were incredibly

1682
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 2: valuable and there was this big push of people into

1683
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 2: catch beavers, trade for beavers. We again say that we

1684
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 2: try to use tribal identification like like who, but at

1685
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 2: times like we get in this thing like this one

1686
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,840
Speaker 2: guy in his journal, it's just Indians. So we'll point

1687
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:43,400
Speaker 2: out like, no idea, what who he's talking about.

1688
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:45,680
Speaker 3: Well, you'll have to let me know. I have a

1689
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 3: strong familial background in the trades of the beaver trading,

1690
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 3: the fur traders and stuff.

1691
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:54,760
Speaker 2: Oh, really tell me about that.

1692
01:34:55,960 --> 01:35:05,879
Speaker 3: I my ancestors are were a couple of French trappers

1693
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:14,280
Speaker 3: who married Lakota women and they came from Saint Louis. Yeah,

1694
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:23,400
Speaker 3: Antoine and Nicholas Denie. So so part of the history

1695
01:35:23,439 --> 01:35:28,640
Speaker 3: of it is Antoine Antoine Jennie actually homesteaded in the

1696
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 3: Pewter Valley and near Laporte by Fort Collins. His cabin

1697
01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:40,920
Speaker 3: still stands, and he was moved by the cavalry back

1698
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:45,320
Speaker 3: to the Pine Ridge Reservation him and his brother Nicholas,

1699
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:51,559
Speaker 3: and Nicholas as my direct descendant. So yeah, they both

1700
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:54,679
Speaker 3: married Lakota women and they both died on the Pine Ridge.

1701
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 3: Indian reservation.

1702
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 2: Really, Oh, we'll keep her eyes peeled.

1703
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me the names again, Antoine and Nicholas Denise.

1704
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 2: Okay, And then what is uh so on your on

1705
01:36:09,479 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 2: the Aglala Sue side of your family? What was the

1706
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 2: like when you go back to like matriarchs, what was

1707
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 2: your family's name.

1708
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 3: They did it?

1709
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:26,760
Speaker 2: I guess like like maid however you think of like

1710
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 2: what the equival of maiden names or whatever.

1711
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:34,560
Speaker 3: So some of them there's a there is a correlation

1712
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:40,280
Speaker 3: of a descendant to the one of the wives. And

1713
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,080
Speaker 3: I can't remember if it was Antoine's or Nicholas's wife

1714
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:47,200
Speaker 3: was the niece of Red Cloud, of chief Red Clouds,

1715
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 3: So I guess that kind of.

1716
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:52,880
Speaker 2: Correlation because it's not like a like in the culture,

1717
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 2: there's not like a last name structure, right, right.

1718
01:36:57,240 --> 01:36:59,160
Speaker 6: A lot of them come from the different chiefs, like

1719
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 6: my found on the Northern Rapples, right, we all come

1720
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 6: from Cheap Friday. So when I I'm related to every

1721
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:08,680
Speaker 6: Friday on the reservation, and I'm related every handway, and

1722
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:11,760
Speaker 6: I'm related to pretty much almost everybody on every rapper

1723
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 6: when reservation.

1724
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 2: But with the Rappo too, there wasn't a you know

1725
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 2: how like like we track like a family tree or

1726
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 2: like generally you go like we're sort of patrilineal in name,

1727
01:37:27,200 --> 01:37:30,080
Speaker 2: meaning it's like this this series of fathers names and

1728
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 2: maiden names fall away and and native culture in the

1729
01:37:37,160 --> 01:37:40,760
Speaker 2: western tribes we're talking about there's not a way by

1730
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 2: a name. I mean, if we talk about red Cloud,

1731
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 2: we talk about crazy Horse, there's no thing in the

1732
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:52,719
Speaker 2: name that travels on the captures your your your ancestry. Correct, Okay,

1733
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:56,600
Speaker 2: each person takes an individual name that doesn't carry with

1734
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 2: it who like who your dad was, who you're was, right.

1735
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a colonial structure.

1736
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:07,800
Speaker 6: And we didn't see on my side, we didn't really

1737
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 6: start seeing ours until.

1738
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 2: Paul Bridger.

1739
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 6: Uh, my grandpa's brother was named Paul Bridger after uh Bridger,

1740
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 6: the famous Yeah.

1741
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,639
Speaker 2: Jim Bridger. Jim Bridger married his third wife was Shashone

1742
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 2: and so.

1743
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 6: Like my my oldest brother, his name is Bridger. You know,

1744
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 6: you don't hear that somebody was born in the early

1745
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:32,320
Speaker 6: seventies and stuff, but he was only one round forever.

1746
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 6: Now that's kind of a common name.

1747
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:37,479
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of Bridgers in the Shoshone.

1748
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:40,560
Speaker 6: Well, just in public anywhere, even off the reservation.

1749
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:43,840
Speaker 2: Because around here everybody's you get kids. They people named

1750
01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 2: their kids their first names Bridger. You guys got people

1751
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:47,360
Speaker 2: whose last.

1752
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:51,559
Speaker 6: Name was and then and when river uh uh. Riverton

1753
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:53,680
Speaker 6: area is one of the bigger Ronnie Boos sites that

1754
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 6: ever used to happen, and so we used to have

1755
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 6: a lot of Ronnie Boos there and now it was

1756
01:38:57,479 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 6: a Shoshonies rapples Cheyenne, So everybody used to come there

1757
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:04,800
Speaker 6: for rendezvous. And so trapping was pretty big in the area.

1758
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:08,000
Speaker 6: And I grew I remember growing up trapping weaver bobcats,

1759
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:11,519
Speaker 6: everything else. You know, growing up, we didn't have cell

1760
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:13,360
Speaker 6: phones or anything else to do back in the day.

1761
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:15,519
Speaker 2: Are there many tribal fur trappers left.

1762
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 6: No, it's really decreasing. It's sad to see. I mean,

1763
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 6: it's something that a lot of us grew up seeing

1764
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 6: and stuff. And as you see the generations of people leaving,

1765
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 6: it's it's kind of declining pretty fast.

1766
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 2: Is that right?

1767
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 6: What you said?

1768
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:33,639
Speaker 8: There is an interest from in hunting from the younger members.

1769
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:36,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they're definitely a big interest. Well, we we're

1770
01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 6: doing a lot of work, So I got I hired

1771
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 6: a youth coordinator to go in and make efforts and

1772
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:44,439
Speaker 6: to get into the youth involved. And so we teamed

1773
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,720
Speaker 6: up with a nonprofit to help sponsor fly fishing and

1774
01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:51,759
Speaker 6: any different fishing events or we put on huge classes,

1775
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 6: and so we just wanted to get involve the youth

1776
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 6: some way, somehow, to protect to have a passion for

1777
01:39:57,200 --> 01:40:00,160
Speaker 6: the outdoors and our natural resources. You know, we're just

1778
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:02,479
Speaker 6: trying to prepare for the future so when we're all gone,

1779
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:04,720
Speaker 6: that somebody comes and takes our place and then all

1780
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:06,800
Speaker 6: the tools they need to succeed.

1781
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 7: Is already there and they care about the place.

1782
01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean you do not. You're not gonna be

1783
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 6: in charge of your natural resources and do a good

1784
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:15,560
Speaker 6: job if you don't care for it.

1785
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 5: You know, how are predators managed, coyotes, etcetera.

1786
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:25,479
Speaker 6: There's no I mean, we have a wolf season. There's

1787
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:28,599
Speaker 6: no nothing on coyote or mountain lions or anything else.

1788
01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:32,639
Speaker 6: We have a black bear season, but still, I mean,

1789
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 6: we might get a handful of black bears harvested every year.

1790
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 2: How many how many wolves does anybody getting after? Do

1791
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 2: you got any guys that like to hunt wolves?

1792
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 6: A lot of guys that like to hunt wolves. The

1793
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 6: harvest one doesn't happen.

1794
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:47,800
Speaker 2: Sounds like you don't have a high harvest rate. Did

1795
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:48,400
Speaker 2: you have first?

1796
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:52,639
Speaker 6: We've never had one harvester during our seasons.

1797
01:40:53,120 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 2: Wow, how long is your season?

1798
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 6: It's uh January till February.

1799
01:40:57,720 --> 01:40:59,679
Speaker 2: Do you know if guys that try calling, Oh yeah.

1800
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:04,040
Speaker 6: They try to everything. The unique thing about the I

1801
01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:06,960
Speaker 6: mean we don't when you go to different areas and

1802
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 6: you see different areas the wolf population is just blowing up.

1803
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 6: It's grown. You know, our is not really blowing up

1804
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:15,760
Speaker 6: or going getting out of control. Even though we have

1805
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 6: less pressure on wildlife and hunting and everything else and

1806
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:25,640
Speaker 6: uh big herds of wild game, elk, mile deer, unlimited

1807
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 6: white tail. We just don't have that population growth on

1808
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:32,360
Speaker 6: and around the reservation. And so when we deal with

1809
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 6: grizzly bears and stuff, we know the population is growing.

1810
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 6: We see them all the time. We see them on

1811
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:39,839
Speaker 6: every child camera, we see mountains on every child cameras.

1812
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:42,920
Speaker 6: But we do not have the issues that the state

1813
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:45,240
Speaker 6: does just on the other side of that boundary, on

1814
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:46,160
Speaker 6: the other side of that creek.

1815
01:41:46,360 --> 01:41:48,160
Speaker 2: How many grizzlies do you guys think you have at

1816
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:48,840
Speaker 2: any given time.

1817
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:52,920
Speaker 6: It's so hard to determine. I mean it, I'm seeing

1818
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:55,880
Speaker 6: them more and more every year and places we've never

1819
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:56,599
Speaker 6: seen them before.

1820
01:41:57,520 --> 01:41:59,719
Speaker 2: It's closer to ten or closer to one hundred.

1821
01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:01,840
Speaker 6: Well, I'm closer to fifty.

1822
01:42:04,240 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 2: That splits the middle of it. So maybe about fifty.

1823
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:10,800
Speaker 2: And here's the crazy thing. If you guys wanted to

1824
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 2: and you had to try, you could. I mean, there's

1825
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,639
Speaker 2: nothing legally preventing a tribal member from hunting a grizzly

1826
01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 2: right because the Dangered Species Act wouldn't legally restrict you.

1827
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:27,679
Speaker 6: That that does still cover uh, eagles and migration migrating

1828
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:31,160
Speaker 6: birds and is covered under.

1829
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:34,439
Speaker 2: Also EESA that in Dangerous Species Act does apply to

1830
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 2: tribal lands. Yes, huh does that ever create a pain

1831
01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 2: point for you guys for management or is it not

1832
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:41,840
Speaker 2: an issue?

1833
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:42,559
Speaker 6: Not an issue?

1834
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:45,759
Speaker 2: I had no idea.

1835
01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:50,080
Speaker 6: I mean, there's well it would actually be to that

1836
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 6: point where it is an issue where we might have

1837
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 6: the population double one and issue attacks and stuff. But

1838
01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:01,080
Speaker 6: I don't even think we have one record attack on

1839
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 6: the reservation with human and grizzly bears.

1840
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:07,600
Speaker 2: How about how about livestock loss? A few not a

1841
01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 2: huge problem.

1842
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:11,600
Speaker 6: Well, it's so hard to determine what killed livestock. Is

1843
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:14,200
Speaker 6: it a wolf? Was it a lion? Because you know

1844
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:15,720
Speaker 6: what birds I come in and take over and eat

1845
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:16,439
Speaker 6: on it anyway.

1846
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can't go by who's standing there when

1847
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:21,760
Speaker 2: you get there. Yeah, this is going to be a bear.

1848
01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:24,880
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, you know. I mean if you ever watched

1849
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:28,320
Speaker 6: wolves and stuff, sometimes they just kill for fun. They

1850
01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:32,080
Speaker 6: don't kill to eat and to manage a herd or anything.

1851
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:33,719
Speaker 6: They just kill for fun. You know. We we've watched

1852
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:35,960
Speaker 6: them take down elk and mildeer and just leave them

1853
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 6: and then the kylets and wolves bears will come in

1854
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:43,639
Speaker 6: and finish, you know, eating the animal, eating on the carcus.

1855
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,479
Speaker 2: We do a podcast. We do limited releases of a

1856
01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:50,519
Speaker 2: podcast for kids, and in it, in one of the

1857
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:54,880
Speaker 2: sections we kind of explain different history or biology things.

1858
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 2: I was making a list of stuff for upcoming episodes

1859
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 2: with Krinn the other day of thought about but did

1860
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:02,880
Speaker 2: not include, and now I might put it on. There

1861
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:09,680
Speaker 2: is the surplus killing. When predators go a little gangbusters,

1862
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:12,800
Speaker 2: they get a little carried away, not in their mind,

1863
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:14,439
Speaker 2: but in our minds. To get a little carried away,

1864
01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:15,519
Speaker 2: I don't know what's in their mind.

1865
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 4: That's all subjective in their minds, appropriate amount of to

1866
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:23,719
Speaker 4: kill in their mind.

1867
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:25,320
Speaker 2: This is what I do.

1868
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, we spend a lot of time with the youth

1869
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:34,200
Speaker 6: with gun safety, ethics about a hunter safety survival just

1870
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:37,559
Speaker 6: and we take we take travel youth hunting game one.

1871
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 6: We'll go out with them and we'll go out and

1872
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:40,600
Speaker 6: try to harvest some milk and stuff like that. But

1873
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 6: we spend a majority of our time with ethics and

1874
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:49,160
Speaker 6: gun safety and so you know, with the fishing, we

1875
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:53,000
Speaker 6: bring in trotting a classroom, we take them ice fishing

1876
01:44:53,240 --> 01:44:55,640
Speaker 6: just and stuff. Oh yeah, we do a lot. We

1877
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 6: ended up taking fifty trouble youth to an ice fishing

1878
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:02,439
Speaker 6: event reservoir one of the big areas where we removed

1879
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:04,840
Speaker 6: feral horses and on the way up all we've seen

1880
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 6: was mule deer or herd elk and then on top

1881
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:09,080
Speaker 6: of the big herd of sheep and all the kids

1882
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 6: are out there kitchen and ice fishing, kitchen cutthroats all

1883
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:14,880
Speaker 6: day long. Yeah, that's great.

1884
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, how many kids you think are participating in your

1885
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 2: program right now?

1886
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,240
Speaker 6: I bet because we're in every tribal school and there's

1887
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 6: four tribal schools out there, and we're trying to reach

1888
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:30,559
Speaker 6: out to the surrounding state schools that have house trible

1889
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:33,080
Speaker 6: youth and them, well, we're probably working with around three

1890
01:45:33,160 --> 01:45:36,640
Speaker 6: four hundred kids, yep. And so with that success, we

1891
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:39,800
Speaker 6: decided to start up a female tribal female program too,

1892
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 6: And so we're doing anything with tribal females. Yeah, we

1893
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 6: get them outdoors hiking of any age, any age, and

1894
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 6: any tribe will take on any tribal female to come

1895
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 6: on and join us.

1896
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:57,479
Speaker 2: That's great, man, it's really cool with the kid program

1897
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:01,120
Speaker 2: that you can see that you would be able to grow.

1898
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:04,200
Speaker 2: I mean, because you guys got a good resource, you

1899
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:07,160
Speaker 2: got a good management strategy. The landscape is getting better

1900
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 2: with the absence of horses that you'd get that you'd

1901
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:12,320
Speaker 2: have more and more tribal kids get introduced to going hunting.

1902
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:14,799
Speaker 6: You know, we got trouble youth making their own YouTube

1903
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:19,880
Speaker 6: videos and stuff. Kids outdoors and they're starting their own

1904
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 6: fly fishing clubs, their own fishing clubs and stuff like that. Yeah. No,

1905
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:25,000
Speaker 6: it's it's it's going really good.

1906
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:26,479
Speaker 3: That's great.

1907
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:28,000
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Congratulations.

1908
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 6: Thanks.

1909
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:30,920
Speaker 2: Uh, we can talk about more, but I don't know,

1910
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:32,439
Speaker 2: I would love to see some of that. I mean

1911
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:34,800
Speaker 2: just hang out and check it outll be cool.

1912
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'm gonna we put everything on social media

1913
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,439
Speaker 6: on our stu's showing rapp with Trouble Youth page and.

1914
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:42,960
Speaker 2: Okay there is a place. Yeah yeah, and then good

1915
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:45,719
Speaker 2: luck with the Buffalo program. That sounds exciting.

1916
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:48,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, we are. We're all excited about it. I mean,

1917
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:51,479
Speaker 6: I'm sure there's a few livestock producers worried about and stuff,

1918
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:55,040
Speaker 6: but is that right? Yeah, with trouble fishing game, broken interference,

1919
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 6: we plan on making it work for both ends, you know,

1920
01:46:58,360 --> 01:47:01,640
Speaker 6: I think I think we can sustain and both the.

1921
01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you have a you have some producers that

1922
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:11,000
Speaker 2: are worried about the loss of grazing lands, Yeah, got it.

1923
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:13,360
Speaker 2: How will how will the conflict like that resolve?

1924
01:47:15,200 --> 01:47:17,800
Speaker 6: Either the Buffalo program will come in and you know,

1925
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:20,200
Speaker 6: pay more for those leases and stuff and then start

1926
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:23,280
Speaker 6: managing them better. But that's one of the issues that

1927
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:25,640
Speaker 6: we're working on now, is how how to compensate for

1928
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:28,120
Speaker 6: those producers lost.

1929
01:47:29,560 --> 01:47:32,280
Speaker 2: When when you mentioned that you would do it through

1930
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:36,360
Speaker 2: the tribal council, can you quickly lay out what that means.

1931
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 6: So there's Eastern Shoshoni, Northern rap Pole they have their

1932
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 6: own different programs, tribes operations they have to manage every

1933
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:48,360
Speaker 6: day on a day to day basis, and then they

1934
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:50,600
Speaker 6: have to come together a few times out of the

1935
01:47:50,720 --> 01:47:55,599
Speaker 6: month to manage law and order codes, tribal fishing game.

1936
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:01,120
Speaker 6: What else is there? Just like three other different programs

1937
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:04,240
Speaker 6: that they transportation and stuff that they have to manage together.

1938
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 6: And so it's a joint effort for both tribes to

1939
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:10,800
Speaker 6: work on to manage a lot of the natural resources

1940
01:48:10,840 --> 01:48:11,439
Speaker 6: on the reservation.

1941
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 2: Have you ever been a console member?

1942
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:13,439
Speaker 5: No?

1943
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:21,880
Speaker 6: That is that like at Hot Hot I mean it's

1944
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:24,439
Speaker 6: a politician job. This job I have is a politician job,

1945
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:28,120
Speaker 6: and I've only wanted to be a game warden. That

1946
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:30,840
Speaker 6: was the highlight of my career. It was, you know,

1947
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 6: you'd wake up and I got two million acres? Where

1948
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 6: do I want to go today? And you go seem

1949
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 6: with some of the best natural resources in the lower

1950
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:37,559
Speaker 6: forty eight.

1951
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:40,160
Speaker 2: You know, I forgot to ask you about that earlier

1952
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:42,240
Speaker 2: when you were a game when you were doing work

1953
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:46,720
Speaker 2: as a game warden, what would be a common like

1954
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:51,160
Speaker 2: I don't imagine because you guys have allocations and game allocations,

1955
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:54,960
Speaker 2: you're probably not out busting tribal poachers, right few, Yeah,

1956
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:57,320
Speaker 2: there's something be an example.

1957
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:01,240
Speaker 3: Of that hunting outside of the regulation time.

1958
01:49:01,479 --> 01:49:01,719
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1959
01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 2: Oh I see, So even though you've got a good

1960
01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 2: elk allocation, you're not you're out hunting in the summer.

1961
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:10,960
Speaker 6: Right Yeah. All that and then overharvesting bulls. I mean,

1962
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:15,760
Speaker 6: you know, we got phenomenal trophy animals and so you

1963
01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:17,880
Speaker 6: know you already punched your tag while you punched another one,

1964
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:19,400
Speaker 6: are trying to get another one?

1965
01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:20,759
Speaker 3: Or waste?

1966
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:23,080
Speaker 6: Yeah? Waste? You know, you just take the antlers and

1967
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:26,200
Speaker 6: not the meat and stuff, and you know it happens everywhere.

1968
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:27,320
Speaker 2: The same old stuff as anywhere.

1969
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:28,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, did you get.

1970
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:31,559
Speaker 8: When you were were a game warden, did you guys

1971
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:35,560
Speaker 8: have like a constant kind of working relationship with the

1972
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:38,760
Speaker 8: wyoming game wardens that kind of surround the work the

1973
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:42,880
Speaker 8: surrounding area, like if things were going on like near

1974
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:46,080
Speaker 8: the border, like people were where they weren't supposed to

1975
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:49,000
Speaker 8: be where you like, do you have guys you'd call up.

1976
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:50,960
Speaker 7: Like you had a working relationship with them?

1977
01:49:51,200 --> 01:49:51,320
Speaker 5: Oh?

1978
01:49:51,400 --> 01:49:55,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean we're all on the same if

1979
01:49:55,040 --> 01:49:56,760
Speaker 6: you're not anything aout law enperson, I kind of worked

1980
01:49:57,120 --> 01:49:58,640
Speaker 6: together as a team and then a lot of us

1981
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:02,439
Speaker 6: like me and the other wardens are from Bia, were

1982
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:06,040
Speaker 6: open interfairs police officers, and so not only with the

1983
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:09,599
Speaker 6: state wardens and everybody else, but with the FBI, Pemmut

1984
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:12,880
Speaker 6: County sheriffs, you know, land of Police, Proton police, and

1985
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:15,600
Speaker 6: everybody else. And so it's kind of good to have

1986
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:18,519
Speaker 6: that network and a small popular area like that, so

1987
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:23,040
Speaker 6: we can communicate and eliminate a lot of these big problems.

1988
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:27,960
Speaker 2: So if you're when you're if you're a tribal member

1989
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:31,200
Speaker 2: and you're for you're fulfilling the role of a game

1990
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 2: warden on reservation land, and you catch a tribal member

1991
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:40,280
Speaker 2: in violation, is it the same old thing? Liked be like,

1992
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:43,160
Speaker 2: depending on the severity of the crime, there's a financial fine,

1993
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:47,200
Speaker 2: there's like a loss of privileges. Like does the sort

1994
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,439
Speaker 2: of toolkit of enforcement look similar.

1995
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's that's well, we have criminal jurisdiction over

1996
01:50:53,479 --> 01:50:57,120
Speaker 6: tribal members, any tribal member, any recognized tribal member in

1997
01:50:57,160 --> 01:51:00,519
Speaker 6: the United States, and so we can prosecute through able court.

1998
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:04,920
Speaker 6: And then we have have taken hunting rights away for

1999
01:51:05,040 --> 01:51:08,040
Speaker 6: five years we've had you know, it's a lot of

2000
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 6: the same. I guess we didn't really invent the will,

2001
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:14,000
Speaker 6: but we kind of mirrored off of what the state

2002
01:51:14,120 --> 01:51:14,400
Speaker 6: was doing.

2003
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 2: Like you can confiscate equipment, like all the kind of yep,

2004
01:51:18,120 --> 01:51:20,160
Speaker 2: normal things that would happen if you do something real bad.

2005
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:20,519
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2006
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is there anything I didn't ask about that you

2007
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:24,719
Speaker 2: wish we would have asked about?

2008
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:28,840
Speaker 6: Not really?

2009
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:30,679
Speaker 2: I mean, is there anything I asked about you wish

2010
01:51:30,680 --> 01:51:31,360
Speaker 2: I hadn't asked.

2011
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 3: You?

2012
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:38,280
Speaker 4: Or no?

2013
01:51:38,479 --> 01:51:41,320
Speaker 6: I mean, if there's anything else you know. Uh, there's

2014
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:43,880
Speaker 6: a lot of information out there that people don't know

2015
01:51:43,960 --> 01:51:48,479
Speaker 6: about reservations, and in particular Wind River Reservation and stuff.

2016
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:50,800
Speaker 2: And I think I'm speaking for a lot of people

2017
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:53,880
Speaker 2: when I say that, myself included. I don't know shit

2018
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:58,519
Speaker 2: about reservations, right. You know, they're over there, they're over there,

2019
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:00,040
Speaker 2: you're driving along. This is all.

2020
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:03,280
Speaker 6: Well, and a lot of it too, is a lot

2021
01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:06,599
Speaker 6: of bad press. What you see on reservations. We don't

2022
01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:08,680
Speaker 6: get a lot of good press of some of the

2023
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:12,160
Speaker 6: success that we're we are having and what we are doing.

2024
01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:16,040
Speaker 6: I can tell you one thing, the success of removing

2025
01:52:16,120 --> 01:52:18,839
Speaker 6: fur horses has gone pretty big in the state of Wyhoming.

2026
01:52:19,160 --> 01:52:21,479
Speaker 6: A lot of non native support of what we're what

2027
01:52:21,560 --> 01:52:24,600
Speaker 6: we're doing, and a lot of conservation efforts and and

2028
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 6: and giving out information to everybody but any other states

2029
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:32,080
Speaker 6: and other tribal programs, other state programs, other agencies and

2030
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:37,160
Speaker 6: stuff to see the results of the comeback of natural

2031
01:52:37,200 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 6: resources from removing for horses. That's one of the best

2032
01:52:41,439 --> 01:52:44,880
Speaker 6: positive feedbacks I've ever got working for the tribes.

2033
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'd like to give you more positive feedback

2034
01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:53,040
Speaker 2: on the youth uh programs. That's exciting.

2035
01:52:53,240 --> 01:52:55,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, and we just wanted to grow and get bigger.

2036
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:59,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, And again, good luck on the buffalo thing.

2037
01:52:59,600 --> 01:52:59,960
Speaker 2: That's great.

2038
01:53:00,479 --> 01:53:03,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, come down anytime. We're only six hours away.

2039
01:53:04,320 --> 01:53:08,719
Speaker 2: Come look around, visit. But you can get.

2040
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 5: That's a different thing.

2041
01:53:17,960 --> 01:53:18,759
Speaker 6: That's all protected.

2042
01:53:20,160 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 5: I was.

2043
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:23,960
Speaker 2: I was recently down at Zooni Pueblo in New Mexico,

2044
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:26,519
Speaker 2: and I went out with those guys and uh, you know,

2045
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:29,559
Speaker 2: they were out hunting and yeah, they're like, not even

2046
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:30,360
Speaker 2: a rabbit, buddy.

2047
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:37,559
Speaker 3: Sorry. I don't get to hunt there either. I've lived

2048
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:39,000
Speaker 3: there most of my life. I don't get to hunt

2049
01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:39,400
Speaker 3: there either.

2050
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:44,680
Speaker 2: That right, Oh wow, yeah, oh really you can't get

2051
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:45,880
Speaker 2: her past you guys are married.

2052
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:48,760
Speaker 3: I can go with him. There's a spousal permit that

2053
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:51,519
Speaker 3: I can be on the mountain with him and stuff,

2054
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:54,800
Speaker 3: but I can't hunt. Yeah, huh.

2055
01:53:56,479 --> 01:53:57,880
Speaker 6: Me and the kids are en ropes. We don't let

2056
01:53:57,920 --> 01:53:58,639
Speaker 6: her shoot anyway.

2057
01:54:00,280 --> 01:54:02,240
Speaker 3: I just help them pack out their meat. That's what

2058
01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 3: I'm there for. And then they have to get me

2059
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:06,519
Speaker 3: to go, because all do you guys want me to

2060
01:54:06,520 --> 01:54:07,320
Speaker 3: do is pack up meat.

2061
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:09,320
Speaker 2: Do you guys eat a lot of wild game?

2062
01:54:09,439 --> 01:54:10,040
Speaker 3: That's all we eat?

2063
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:12,960
Speaker 2: No beef. We don't know rais any beef.

2064
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:15,160
Speaker 3: We don't raise any beef. I come from a strong

2065
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:19,560
Speaker 3: family of cattle ranchers and stuff. But at once I

2066
01:54:21,160 --> 01:54:24,120
Speaker 3: married him. That's all we've ever eaten and stuff. We

2067
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:30,000
Speaker 3: have a freezer full of elk, and I'll buy I'll

2068
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:31,320
Speaker 3: buy chicken occasionally.

2069
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:32,000
Speaker 9: You know.

2070
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:37,000
Speaker 2: That's a conversation household to my kids will be like

2071
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:38,240
Speaker 2: my chicken?

2072
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:41,840
Speaker 3: Did you see that? More?

2073
01:54:45,320 --> 01:54:45,600
Speaker 1: All right?

2074
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 2: Man? We want to thank both. If you're coming on,

2075
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:49,040
Speaker 2: this has been real educational. I appreciate it.

2076
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:50,880
Speaker 6: Thank you, thanks for having us.

2077
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:51,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.