Speaker 1: God heals us and delivers us out of things, but
Speaker 1: I didn't want to tell myself and live on. He
Speaker 1: delivers us through them. Welcome to the one you feed
Speaker 1: throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the
Speaker 1: thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or
Speaker 1: you are what you think, ring true. And yet for
Speaker 1: many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Yeah, thanks for joining us. Our guest on
Speaker 1: this episode is Sonja Curry and entrepreneur, educator, and founder
Speaker 1: of the Christian Montessori School of Lake Norman in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: as well as the co host of the Raising Fame podcast.
Speaker 1: She is the mother of Stephen and Seth Curry and
Speaker 1: said L Curry Lee, and often speaks about her experiences
Speaker 1: as a mother, educator and Christian sharing testimony about our
Speaker 1: faith and parenting and education. Today, Sonya and Eric discuss
Speaker 1: her book Fierce Love, a Memoir of Family, Faith and Purpose. Hi, Sony,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Well, thank you Eric for having
Speaker 1: me and giving me the opportunity to come on and
Speaker 1: talk about the book. And I look forward to just
Speaker 1: spending time with you this morning. Yes, me too. We're
Speaker 1: going to be discussing your book, which is called Fierce Love,
Speaker 1: a Memoir of Family, Faith and Purpose. But before we
Speaker 1: do that, let's start, like we always do, with the
Speaker 1: parable and the parable. There is a grandparent who's talking
Speaker 1: with a grandchild and they say, in life, there are
Speaker 1: two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.
Speaker 1: One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness
Speaker 1: and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,
Speaker 1: which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And
Speaker 1: the grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second,
Speaker 1: looks up and says, well, which one wins? And the
Speaker 1: grandparents says, the one you feed. So I'd like to
Speaker 1: start off by asking you what that parable means to
Speaker 1: you in your life and the work that you do. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful parable. And I was actually listening
Speaker 1: this morning to Pastor Rick Warren, and one of his
Speaker 1: devotions this morning was about, you know, cultivating a healthy
Speaker 1: life and relationships. And one of the things that he
Speaker 1: highlighted this morning was the fact that what we feed
Speaker 1: our brain is very very important. That you know, science
Speaker 1: used to say that, you know, our brains are fully
Speaker 1: developed by um I think age twelve as an adolescent,
Speaker 1: but as Scripture tells us, is to conform no longer
Speaker 1: to the ways of the world, but be transformed in
Speaker 1: our mind. And so he reminded me that every day,
Speaker 1: the words that I say to myself, the things that
Speaker 1: I read, the music that I listened to, the friends
Speaker 1: and the people that are surround myself with, to be
Speaker 1: very careful about words. And when the negative words come
Speaker 1: up or I'm exposed to to cast them aside and
Speaker 1: replace them with positive words and as the Bible says,
Speaker 1: with the truth, because a lot of the negative are
Speaker 1: really just lies. And we need to know what God
Speaker 1: says about us, who we are while we're here, and
Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do, what's our purpose. And so
Speaker 1: I needed that reminder this morning, you know, and now
Speaker 1: I'm getting it twice, so I'm just gonna wait for
Speaker 1: the third confirmation at some point during this day about
Speaker 1: feeding my mind, feeding my mind through scripture, which will
Speaker 1: then feed my spirit, and that it's a process, Eric,
Speaker 1: it's a process that it's not gonna happen overnight. It's
Speaker 1: not something that Okay, I'm just gonna be a happy
Speaker 1: person or I'm just gonna make the best choices. You can't.
Speaker 1: You have to develop the habit of wanting to make
Speaker 1: good choices. That's what I do. That's what I try
Speaker 1: to do in my life every day with you know,
Speaker 1: staying close to the word, having great people in my
Speaker 1: life to be sound counsel for me. And then even
Speaker 1: when I ran my school, um that still it gets
Speaker 1: that it is still operating, you know, letting children know
Speaker 1: that that you know, it is all about them, that
Speaker 1: they are empowered to create the life that they would
Speaker 1: like to have and that God has put hit them
Speaker 1: on this earth to fulfill. So it's a habit, it's
Speaker 1: an everyday practice of creating the habit of making good choices.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's a beautiful answer. You know. I
Speaker 1: am struck by how different urinized potential spiritual beliefs are,
Speaker 1: But with anybody who's deeply committed to a spiritual life,
Speaker 1: what I find is so much commonality. It feels like
Speaker 1: on the surface there can be a lot of differences,
Speaker 1: but at a deeper level, the ways than which we're
Speaker 1: trying to really hear a voice that's deeper and more
Speaker 1: true and more beautiful and live according to that is very,
Speaker 1: very similar. As I was reading your book, I was
Speaker 1: just struck over and over and over again by really
Speaker 1: the depth of your commitment to really trying to live
Speaker 1: a certain way, and really it being about you living
Speaker 1: that way, really being about you stepping up and saying,
Speaker 1: all right, here's the person I want to be, and
Speaker 1: here's the reasons why. There was a lot of highlights
Speaker 1: I did where I was like, that just sounds like
Speaker 1: if you took away, you know, a couple of words,
Speaker 1: it would sound like something that could be in many
Speaker 1: different faith traditions. Absolutely, I think that's the point. I
Speaker 1: think the spirit is in us, for those of us
Speaker 1: who asked for it and for those of us who
Speaker 1: truly want to live by it. Um, there's one thing
Speaker 1: of it being in you, but another to really try
Speaker 1: and let it lead and be the navigation for your
Speaker 1: life on a day to day basis. And so you know,
Speaker 1: all we can do is, Eric, I just try to
Speaker 1: get up every day, and I just tried to remind
Speaker 1: myself who I am, who I belonged to, and what
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be doing, and then I try to
Speaker 1: just make the best decisions that I can. And then
Speaker 1: I try to give myself a lot of grace because
Speaker 1: you know, I came out of a childhood, a young
Speaker 1: adulthood of just religion and going to church and not
Speaker 1: really having a relationship with God, like God, just being
Speaker 1: somebody up in the clouds. And here's this book of instruction,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm going to be condemned to hell
Speaker 1: if i don't follow it word by word. And you know,
Speaker 1: I looked up at one point, Eric, and I was
Speaker 1: miserable because I was just trying to check the boxes.
Speaker 1: And if I do good, then I am good. And
Speaker 1: you know, I had to come to um, come to Jesus,
Speaker 1: as I would say, with myself, and and he came
Speaker 1: to me with that is that you know, the value
Speaker 1: isn't just in just the sacrifices, but it's in a
Speaker 1: broken and could try it hard. And so every day
Speaker 1: trying to check my heart, check my heart and do
Speaker 1: the best that I can and then leave the rest
Speaker 1: up to God to just the next day to show
Speaker 1: me what I need to do better. You know, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, if I do that, I
Speaker 1: can sleep at night. But if I'm trying to work
Speaker 1: for his love or from trying to please others, then
Speaker 1: it's not a relationship. So I'm learning that I'm growing
Speaker 1: in it every day and just trying to give it
Speaker 1: all that I have. Yeah, you talk about it. Thirteen
Speaker 1: You told your mother and grandparent that you didn't want
Speaker 1: to get baptized and you felt like, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't really feel this right now. So there's that phase
Speaker 1: of your life. Then there's a phase it appears where
Speaker 1: you start going back to church when your kids are young,
Speaker 1: and there's something about the ritual of it that's really
Speaker 1: valuable and the community, and it feels like the right
Speaker 1: thing to do. But you're not on the surface. You're
Speaker 1: a level deeper. But then comes a time where you
Speaker 1: really plunge all the way in. Tell me about what
Speaker 1: it was that brought you to that point that was
Speaker 1: sort of where you went. And I'm using my own
Speaker 1: words here, these are not your words, but you went
Speaker 1: kind of all the way in and maybe the way
Speaker 1: I just described that as a mischaracterization, and if so,
Speaker 1: please feel free to correct any part of it. Well,
Speaker 1: I would say that I just completely surrendered. I think
Speaker 1: that was the point where, you know, I go from
Speaker 1: being a young child told that you're going to go
Speaker 1: to church, and it was created for me the habit
Speaker 1: of attending bricks and mortar of church. And it was
Speaker 1: a family church. So my family lived on the same
Speaker 1: block of the church, and you know, it was just
Speaker 1: part of our community. And so you went there because
Speaker 1: everyone else in the family was going, and you know,
Speaker 1: my grandmother was always like, this is the right thing
Speaker 1: to do, so you went. There was a strong sense
Speaker 1: of community there, and it was this home. It was
Speaker 1: just another extension of our home. And then I move
Speaker 1: into Okay, you need to be saved, and you need
Speaker 1: to be saved so you don't go to hell. And
Speaker 1: so started that those confirmation classes doing that. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to be the obedient person and I want
Speaker 1: to you know, make everybody happy, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to go to hell. So if this is what I
Speaker 1: need to do. Then I'm going to do it again.
Speaker 1: They're going back to this sense of the whole time
Speaker 1: I'm taking classes, the joy, the joy was not there,
Speaker 1: and the more that I thought about not going to hell,
Speaker 1: and then okay, looking at the people around me. I
Speaker 1: talked about this in my book. You know, they did
Speaker 1: whatever they kind of wanted to do during the week,
Speaker 1: and then they showed up on Sunday and you know,
Speaker 1: singing in the choir and they're doing, you know, doing
Speaker 1: all the service to help our church run. And that
Speaker 1: was confusing to me. But to be honest, at the time,
Speaker 1: the things that they were doing during the week, they
Speaker 1: were happy, and it was just like, Okay, here's happy people.
Speaker 1: And then they go to church and they're kind of
Speaker 1: playing the role. And then I would see, you know,
Speaker 1: this other church where they were just what I saw
Speaker 1: in my mind was just so like totally religious, and
Speaker 1: it was just like, y'all are miserable, Like they weren't happy.
Speaker 1: I So I was just confused as an adolescent, like
Speaker 1: what is going on? Like I'm a joyful person anyway.
Speaker 1: I love to laugh, That's just my love language. So
Speaker 1: it wasn't speaking to me as a person that if I, oh, well, Lord,
Speaker 1: I'm guess I'm gonna go to hell because I just
Speaker 1: want to be joyful and happy. So then I go
Speaker 1: off to college. Then I have my own children, and
Speaker 1: I missed that community, the safety of the church, the
Speaker 1: bricks and mortar, and I missed truth. I missed somebody
Speaker 1: just telling me the truth. Because I'm a young adult
Speaker 1: with kids and I want to raise them right. And
Speaker 1: there was just something in me that was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got my mom and my major arts and the
Speaker 1: family to kind of help me do this, but I
Speaker 1: want God to tell me how to raise them. And
Speaker 1: so church provided that for me. And then I was
Speaker 1: still you know, as I say in the book, I'm
Speaker 1: going out, I'm partying, and I'm enjoying life. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't have any worries financially, and I'm enjoying life.
Speaker 1: I'm having a great time. But then I start making
Speaker 1: not so good choices and realizing that the joy in
Speaker 1: the world wasn't fulfilling me. There was a lack of
Speaker 1: substance in me and a piece and a different kind
Speaker 1: of joy, and just got to a point where it
Speaker 1: was just like, Lord, there's got to be something else
Speaker 1: because this kind of joy in the world is not
Speaker 1: get me anywhere but in trouble. And so we went
Speaker 1: to church that one evening and it was just like
Speaker 1: always say. It's like the pastor speaking to me, like
Speaker 1: you're staring at me, and it was like, if you're
Speaker 1: tired of doing the same thing, try Jesus. And I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'm just willing to try it, and
Speaker 1: I'm very adventurous and I'll do and I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: because this other stuff is not getting it, and you
Speaker 1: know what, how about that? How about I just try
Speaker 1: and when God calls you, you can't ignore it. And
Speaker 1: that was just one of those situations where it was
Speaker 1: like it was time and he said, you're finally coming
Speaker 1: to me because you want me, not because it's expected
Speaker 1: of you, not because you're the good You want to
Speaker 1: check it off, you want to do what people want
Speaker 1: you to do and please others. You're doing it because
Speaker 1: you want me. And it was that moment it was
Speaker 1: like I'm going and my life changed dramatically after that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's such an interesting point because we all
Speaker 1: are very easily. I can't come up with a better
Speaker 1: word than this right now, seduced by the things of
Speaker 1: the world right, And some people stay stuck in that
Speaker 1: because they can't get the things they think they want,
Speaker 1: and so they think if I get those things, then
Speaker 1: I'll be happy, which is its own kind of trap.
Speaker 1: The other side of it is some people get kind
Speaker 1: to everything that we think we might want. And you
Speaker 1: have a little of that, right, had a lot of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at this time, you're married to a husband who's an
Speaker 1: NBA player, and you have all the things that most
Speaker 1: of us would look at and go if I had that,
Speaker 1: then i'd be happy. But you describe how very clearly
Speaker 1: you were not and you needed something deeper. And I
Speaker 1: think that's just such an important lesson if we can
Speaker 1: learn it that all this time that we spend thinking
Speaker 1: it's this thing, it's this thing, it's this thing, ultimately
Speaker 1: those things bring happiness for a moment, for a little while.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that some of them aren't better than others,
Speaker 1: but ultimately a lot of us will find Okay, it's
Speaker 1: time to go to a deeper level, which is what
Speaker 1: happened to you. I mean, you were you were struggling, right,
Speaker 1: You weren't sleeping well, you just were not doing well.
Speaker 1: And there's a song by Mary Mary the title Escapes
Speaker 1: and Now, but it talks about no, you see the money,
Speaker 1: you see the clothes, the cars and all this, but
Speaker 1: you don't see me on my knees in my closet praying.
Speaker 1: And that's the life that was happening. You know. They
Speaker 1: saw the cars, they saw the trips, they saw the
Speaker 1: fun sonya, and they saw you know, the clothes and everything,
Speaker 1: but they had no idea what was happening behind closed doors.
Speaker 1: And how much I cried, how many moments in my
Speaker 1: life for a long long time. I cried and faded
Speaker 1: my prayer closet hours and said to myself, how do
Speaker 1: you how do you have so much going on around you?
Speaker 1: You have a three kids, you have a job, you
Speaker 1: have a school, you have teachers, you have friends, glory,
Speaker 1: you have you know, a husband. You have all this
Speaker 1: stuff going on, and everybody's looking at that, and you
Speaker 1: still feel so alone. That's where I was. It was
Speaker 1: just emptiness because all of those things were feeding my flesh,
Speaker 1: you know, the party in and all that socializing was
Speaker 1: feeding my flesh. My kids were occupying myself, giving me
Speaker 1: something in my school, giving me something to do, and
Speaker 1: you know, my husband at the time was the companionship,
Speaker 1: but there was just you know, all those things that
Speaker 1: can be around you, but if you aren't full within yourself,
Speaker 1: you can't even really absorb that and appreciated or utilize
Speaker 1: it the way that it should be and without a
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, even value all of that right,
Speaker 1: because you're just empty. And you know, that's what the
Speaker 1: relationship with Jesus gave me. It started giving me that
Speaker 1: fulfillment of knowing who I was, who I was and him,
Speaker 1: and then things just started looking different and I got
Speaker 1: a different kind of power. I got a different kind
Speaker 1: of confidence, and it changed everything. Yeah, it's a really
Speaker 1: confusing place to be to have everything you think that
Speaker 1: you want and still not be happy. We're broadly speaking,
Speaker 1: not taught about what to do when that happens, because again,
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, you never get everything you want.
Speaker 1: You're in the continual chase, and if we're not careful,
Speaker 1: even when we get a lot of the things we want.
Speaker 1: My experience has been you just move the goalpost. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: that's really great, but if you know it's it's it's
Speaker 1: the next thing you describe kind of what happened after that,
Speaker 1: going to church on that Wednesday and having a moment
Speaker 1: where you decided to surrender. And I'm just gonna read
Speaker 1: it because I think it speaks so well to what
Speaker 1: living a spiritual life often just looks like. And you said,
Speaker 1: I've committed to my walk with God. I've changed my life.
Speaker 1: I pray, I actively work towards seeing the good in
Speaker 1: every situation. I try not to act irrationally when it
Speaker 1: comes to big decisions without careful thought and prayer. I
Speaker 1: see each day as part of a spiritual process. I
Speaker 1: look at every twenty four hours as a piece of
Speaker 1: a whole, a chapter in the Holy Book of Life.
Speaker 1: I end each day after my kids have gone to bed,
Speaker 1: with the final reflection, a survey of the previous twenty
Speaker 1: four hours. I mean, there's just so many really great
Speaker 1: practices in there. That's the part where I read it
Speaker 1: and I was, like, what you described. When I'm doing that,
Speaker 1: I tend to be a pretty content person. Yes, And
Speaker 1: for me, what I've just learned in the last two
Speaker 1: years is all of our lives are made up of chapters.
Speaker 1: This chapter's this chapter is this chapter, whether that chapter
Speaker 1: is a day, or whether that chapter is a month,
Speaker 1: whether that chapter is a year, whether that chapter is
Speaker 1: five years, get through children, getting whatever it is, and
Speaker 1: then retiring. All of us have a book in us
Speaker 1: that is made up of these chapters of in our lives.
Speaker 1: And you know, for me, it slows me down to
Speaker 1: do those things and evaluate, because then what tends to
Speaker 1: happen when I don't do that? These things just snowball
Speaker 1: and snowball and snowball, And then I'm looking up and
Speaker 1: I'm going, how did I get here? You know, in
Speaker 1: scripture tells us you just don't wake up one day
Speaker 1: and you're a center. You know, we're born broken that way,
Speaker 1: and then every day we're making decisions every day that
Speaker 1: lead up to something more catastrophic or drastic in our lives.
Speaker 1: And so trying to just keep inventory along the way,
Speaker 1: for me, just helped me manage my life. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict and I got sober
Speaker 1: in a twelve step program. And in the twelve step program,
Speaker 1: there's twelve steps, obviously, and steps four through nine are
Speaker 1: kind of about cleaning up the mess that you've created
Speaker 1: up till so there's a lot of work to be done,
Speaker 1: because for most of us, we've made a lot of
Speaker 1: mess at that point. But then step ten is what
Speaker 1: you're describing. It's the step where it reads continue need
Speaker 1: to take personal inventory, and when wrong promptly admitted it,
Speaker 1: it just meant that we tried now to stay on
Speaker 1: top of it so we didn't have a big mess
Speaker 1: to clean up again later. You know, it's like all right,
Speaker 1: it's it's a whole lot easier if you clean up
Speaker 1: your little messes as they go because then you don't
Speaker 1: walk in, you know, to use like a house cleaning metaphor,
Speaker 1: you don't walk into the kitchen one day and it
Speaker 1: looks like a bomb went off in there, right, You're like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I gotta wipe down the counter, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can handle that absolutely. And you just don't walk
Speaker 1: in and just sit down and like I don't even
Speaker 1: know where to start, and his kid exactly, you just
Speaker 1: take everything is throwing out. You're just kind of like
Speaker 1: irrational about that as well. So every day just helps
Speaker 1: keep your hands on it. One of the big chapters
Speaker 1: in your life is Montessori. Yes, you were looking for
Speaker 1: preschools for staff and schools for him, and you found
Speaker 1: one and it didn't turn out to be the right one,
Speaker 1: And then you got into Montassori, and you went further
Speaker 1: and further into the point where you created your own
Speaker 1: Montessori school. What I was wondering is are there some
Speaker 1: Monasori principles that you carry with you to this day
Speaker 1: that inform how you live and who you are? And
Speaker 1: if so, what are those? Well? I think one pillar
Speaker 1: of Montessori that has stuck with me is the fact
Speaker 1: that all children can learn. You're in the classroom and
Speaker 1: teachers like, oh, you know, just dismissing the child because
Speaker 1: they might, you know, be a little bit more challenging
Speaker 1: or whatever. All children can learn, all of us can learn,
Speaker 1: and so that sticks with me. I tend to be
Speaker 1: a nurturer and I tend to kind of stay in
Speaker 1: situations longer than probably I should because of my hope
Speaker 1: for helping people to grow and to find the answer
Speaker 1: that helps with my relationships. That helped it with my
Speaker 1: children was, you know, whenever there was a challenge with
Speaker 1: them and raising them, and even now we'll have conversations
Speaker 1: if they're having challenges in their lives. It's like there
Speaker 1: is an answer, Go find the answer. And so montes
Speaker 1: story was very influential in our lives for that reason.
Speaker 1: You know, every child can learn go find the answer.
Speaker 1: So don't just preach it. Somebody's just not in a textbook,
Speaker 1: you know, Go discover how to find what you need.
Speaker 1: Another one was completion of task. You know, you starting
Speaker 1: something and you finish it. And I would tell my
Speaker 1: kids all the time, don't start a sport. You can
Speaker 1: finish off the season because people are counting on you,
Speaker 1: but you don't necessarily have to do it again. And
Speaker 1: so now, you know, even in my life, you know,
Speaker 1: some people can say, well I didn't complete a task
Speaker 1: that personally I was just in and got out. Well
Speaker 1: that's a topic for you know, another time. But what
Speaker 1: I'm learning from that now is don't get into something
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to be able to finish, Like,
Speaker 1: really pay attention as I'm moving forward in my life,
Speaker 1: pay attention, and don't get into something that I then
Speaker 1: feel obligated to be in. That's just not good because
Speaker 1: that sticks with me. And so I might stay in
Speaker 1: something because I'm like, I need to finish this out.
Speaker 1: And then I think with Montessori two in the classroom.
Speaker 1: You know, every child was treated the same, but differently,
Speaker 1: and so I talked about that now with my children
Speaker 1: and even with my grandchildren and even with my you know,
Speaker 1: other relationships that I'm in. Everybody is different, so I
Speaker 1: need to treat them fairly, but I don't need to
Speaker 1: treat them equally, if that makes sense, because you have
Speaker 1: to deal with people where they are, and so I
Speaker 1: think we get sometimes caught up in I want to
Speaker 1: be fair, so that means treating you equally. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: going to treat you respectfully and fairly the way we
Speaker 1: interact in this particular moment, in this situation, and so,
Speaker 1: you know, treating everybody uniquely and celebrating their uniqueness as well,
Speaker 1: because we all add to each other. We have to
Speaker 1: have this thing hiring everybody at my school that was
Speaker 1: the same. We would never grow because they're all the same.
Speaker 1: So I've got to like open it up to you know, there's,
Speaker 1: like the Bibble says, there's so many different gifts in
Speaker 1: the Body of Christ, and so we need to make
Speaker 1: sure we were surround ourselves with different people to make
Speaker 1: ourselves grow and stretch, and we add to them and
Speaker 1: they add to us. Tell the story if you would,
Speaker 1: about what made you pull step out of the school
Speaker 1: he was in and go to Montasori, because I think
Speaker 1: there's some really interesting things in that. I we just
Speaker 1: remember going there that day and like I said, it
Speaker 1: was a church preschool and they were, you know, nurturing
Speaker 1: my son and the time he was two and a
Speaker 1: half when I took him there, and then he was
Speaker 1: turned three and went in and there were you know,
Speaker 1: ice cream cones on the wall, and each ice cream
Speaker 1: cone had a dip appalled on top for the number
Speaker 1: your child could count to. And you know, Stephen was
Speaker 1: up to fifty, but they just stopped he could count
Speaker 1: higher than that. And then there were other kids cones
Speaker 1: that had no dips on them whatsoever. And you know,
Speaker 1: my first instinct was, Oh, I'm so proud I'm an
Speaker 1: educator and my child so smart. And then I sat
Speaker 1: in there for a while and I was like, looking
Speaker 1: at the other children, I'm thinking, what is that little
Speaker 1: boy thinking when he looks up and he's wondering why
Speaker 1: there are no colorful ace cream scoops on his comb?
Speaker 1: Eric Honestly, it just hit me in my core and
Speaker 1: I'm like, why am I even thinking about this because
Speaker 1: I went from being, Oh, my child's genius, and I
Speaker 1: got to find somewhere to challenge him to why am
Speaker 1: I even paying attention to this? And then the other
Speaker 1: was what about the parents that comes in here and goes, WHOA,
Speaker 1: my child's behind. We're gonna have to go home to night.
Speaker 1: We're gonna start counting it, because that would be something
Speaker 1: that I would do if seven wasn't, I'll be like, oh, no, devil, tonight,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be counting. He needs to start counting because
Speaker 1: that competitiveness is in me. So I was just having
Speaker 1: this whole like dialogue within myself and in my mind,
Speaker 1: which I knew because I recognized the educator of me
Speaker 1: because I always wanted to teach. And so, long story short,
Speaker 1: it was one this comparison all the time starts that
Speaker 1: early without the adults even knowing that's what's happening. You know,
Speaker 1: they're just thinking, they're just hanging up some kids projects
Speaker 1: on the wall and oh this is great in the
Speaker 1: room's colorful, and they're not thinking that. But a child
Speaker 1: could be thinking that, and that c could stay with
Speaker 1: that child for years and nobody ever know. And then
Speaker 1: the parents the pressures that were on parents to create
Speaker 1: these perfect children, these smart children, while they're going to
Speaker 1: work and while they're doing all these things. I just
Speaker 1: had some empathy in that moment for all that, and
Speaker 1: then I didn't know what to do with it other
Speaker 1: than Okay, had that moment, and now I need to
Speaker 1: find some place for my child that's gonna challenge him
Speaker 1: because he's a genius. And then just started asking own,
Speaker 1: you know, and people started talking about Montessori. I mean,
Speaker 1: I had had some experience with it in my undergraduate studies,
Speaker 1: but not very much. And then went into the school
Speaker 1: and was sold just all the academic work that these
Speaker 1: kids were doing at three and four, but they didn't
Speaker 1: really know that it was really academic. They were having
Speaker 1: so much fun in a Montasory classroom, their three age
Speaker 1: groups in one classroom, so you've got all these kids
Speaker 1: on these different levels, and just they were happy, they
Speaker 1: were joyful, they were working individually, they were sitting together
Speaker 1: with a friend. It was just freedom and joy and
Speaker 1: they were learning. And that's what hooked me was I
Speaker 1: want my kids to be in an educational system where
Speaker 1: they're joyful, happy, learning, independent, and able to excel at
Speaker 1: the level at the pace that they want to and
Speaker 1: that's what sold me on Montessori. Yeah, there's a monastory
Speaker 1: phrase I think you said in the book. It's called
Speaker 1: follow the child. And I think that what's so important
Speaker 1: about that is back to the pre school. There may
Speaker 1: be a kid who's got zero scoops on his cone.
Speaker 1: He could be an incredible artist, but we don't know
Speaker 1: that because we're only measuring him off of how high
Speaker 1: he can count. And like you said, this stuff starts
Speaker 1: to become self fulfilling prophecies. Right. Your teacher treats you different,
Speaker 1: so it just builds. And I just thought that was
Speaker 1: a beautiful moment where you kind of went through all
Speaker 1: those reactions, like the normal pride and then like wait,
Speaker 1: and still through that you went. Even though my son is,
Speaker 1: you know, clearly excelling here, it's not the right environment
Speaker 1: for him. I want him to go somewhere where he's challenged.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you a question about competition because
Speaker 1: your family, you're all high level competitive athletes, at least
Speaker 1: your husband, you two boys, I think your daughter even
Speaker 1: competed in sports in college, so you're all high level
Speaker 1: competitive athletes, and certainly one rival where you talk about
Speaker 1: in the book is certainly comes up between the two
Speaker 1: boys from time to time. How do you work within
Speaker 1: yourself and within your family on okay, competition is a
Speaker 1: value that we have. We all think it's good, but
Speaker 1: how do we not let it get out of hand?
Speaker 1: And how do we not let it become the thing
Speaker 1: that defines us? I think the last part of your
Speaker 1: question is the line in the sand. For me, I
Speaker 1: is don't let it define you. And so I love
Speaker 1: competition like no other. I am not a parent who
Speaker 1: let my children win just to let them win. I
Speaker 1: just can't. I was playing trouble with my granddaughters who
Speaker 1: were like nine and seven last week while I was
Speaker 1: out there, and I'm like winning and I'm like celebrating,
Speaker 1: and I heard their house manager go, Braschi, are you
Speaker 1: letting the grand babies win? And I was like, oops, Nope,
Speaker 1: no I'm not. And so you know, for me, it
Speaker 1: was yes, compete. But you know, first Eric, going back
Speaker 1: to Monta story, that was another thing about Monta story
Speaker 1: is it emphasized competing within yourself first, and when you
Speaker 1: do that, you set the bar for yourself without looking
Speaker 1: at anyone else. So if and and how that's measured
Speaker 1: is if you gave it all that you had, you succeeded. Now,
Speaker 1: it may not have produced a product better than your
Speaker 1: classmates sitting next to you or whatever based on you know,
Speaker 1: whatever project was or whatever great that the teacher gave
Speaker 1: or whatever. But if you could really say you gave
Speaker 1: it all that you had and left nothing out, then
Speaker 1: you succeeded. So that's where competition comes from, right And
Speaker 1: so if you can build that, that builds self confidence.
Speaker 1: You know, your value doesn't come from what you actually
Speaker 1: do compared to someone else. Your value comes from what
Speaker 1: you are putting into whatever you're doing. And now are
Speaker 1: you making that better? That's what I always say, you're cheating.
Speaker 1: You know, Stephan always gets the calls and da da
Speaker 1: da da, And I'm like, no, that's a cop out
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, you're blaming him
Speaker 1: or the lack of a call or referee for your laws.
Speaker 1: We're not going to do that. You know, sometimes that
Speaker 1: could be true. You know now we know that you
Speaker 1: know now that they're playing on the you know, high level,
Speaker 1: and we fuss about the restaurants time. But you know
Speaker 1: we can do that now but you know back then,
Speaker 1: no no excuses for the filling of defeat that you
Speaker 1: have within you, because you've got to get used to
Speaker 1: filling that because life is going to throw things at
Speaker 1: you all the time where you feel like you have
Speaker 1: failed and you are defeated, and that's a lie. We
Speaker 1: started this interview talking about the words that we tell ourselves.
Speaker 1: That's a lie. You are not defeated. And I tell
Speaker 1: my kids all the time, the closed door is just
Speaker 1: your direction somewhere else. So when you just get up
Speaker 1: next day, you go at it and you go at
Speaker 1: it and you go at it until that door is closed.
Speaker 1: But you're not defeated, and you did not fail. You
Speaker 1: just didn't accomplish what you wanted that day. And maybe
Speaker 1: what you think you should accomplish may not be accurate.
Speaker 1: So it's just about effort. For me, Eric was always
Speaker 1: about give it all that you have and let's move on.
Speaker 1: If you put all you have in the process, the
Speaker 1: product will produce itself, and and that's all you can do.
Speaker 1: Control what you can control. You share a story about
Speaker 1: being invited to speak in front of your church with
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and you share a pretty revealing story.
Speaker 1: Are you comfortable sharing it with us. Sure, tell me
Speaker 1: about that and what made you decide to kind of
Speaker 1: get up and talk about what you did well? I think,
Speaker 1: you know, starting off, you know, the highlight I think
Speaker 1: to me wasn't necessarily the things that I talked about
Speaker 1: doing that. It was the fact that God was calling
Speaker 1: me to stand up and talk. And that was something
Speaker 1: that always had within me that people would compliment me
Speaker 1: on or you know, say, you know, we want you
Speaker 1: to speak, and I'm like, no, I don't want to speak. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that, and I would always
Speaker 1: try to like and I'm still do that a little
Speaker 1: bit this book. I'm still getting through this where I
Speaker 1: try to kind of hide a little bit um and
Speaker 1: you know, our families in the lime light and I
Speaker 1: just kind of like to sit in the shadows. But
Speaker 1: people are constantly calling me out to share. And so
Speaker 1: that was the first thing, is learning not to be
Speaker 1: scared to share when God tells me too. So going
Speaker 1: there getting in front of all the ladies, um was
Speaker 1: one thing. And then bringing my daughter she was twelve,
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, twelve or thirteen things she was talking
Speaker 1: and bringing her and it was just laid on my
Speaker 1: heart in prayer that I need to bring my daughter
Speaker 1: because my daughter needs to start knowing her mother in
Speaker 1: a different way because she's an adolescent and she's becoming
Speaker 1: a woman, you know, a young woman, and it was
Speaker 1: just time for me to have her here her mother
Speaker 1: as a woman. And so I get there, and you know,
Speaker 1: my favorite verse is Romans. But the Lord preparation for
Speaker 1: that had me study the whole chapter and I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: scripture after script starting verse one, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: my Lord, like this is my life, this is me.
Speaker 1: And so within that, the major things that I talked
Speaker 1: about was, you know, being in the NBA and never
Speaker 1: really wanting to be a part of the NBA, finding
Speaker 1: value and hanging out with, you know, some of the
Speaker 1: other wives and being in the wives group just because
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be that wife, meaning you know,
Speaker 1: the trophy wife. You know, you just shot you you
Speaker 1: do all these things. There was no sense for me
Speaker 1: that there was value in that, Like we weren't really celebrated,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, no, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 1: And so to my detriment, I'd have to say, Eric,
Speaker 1: sometimes I just made bad decisions because of that because
Speaker 1: I just wanted to prove a point and had a
Speaker 1: chip on my shoulders. I talked about that a lot
Speaker 1: with her, and ironically, she's in the NBA now very too,
Speaker 1: Damien Lee, and so she's living this. Um. I have
Speaker 1: two daughter in laws who were living this and so
Speaker 1: God's just so good. So you know, that was good
Speaker 1: for her to hear that. And then the second was
Speaker 1: I talked a little bit about abortion, and I talked
Speaker 1: about the fact that I had had one, and then
Speaker 1: you know, some people, I was like, I can't believe
Speaker 1: you said that in front of your daughter, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what. It was hard, but I wanted her
Speaker 1: to understand that I was human too, and if she
Speaker 1: got to a point where she was ever faced with this,
Speaker 1: that there would be no shame for her, that she
Speaker 1: would feel comfortable to come to me and me helping
Speaker 1: navigate through any decisions she would have to make in
Speaker 1: that situation, and you know, not shy away, because I
Speaker 1: know of a lot of people who felt they couldn't.
Speaker 1: I felt I couldn't at the time, you know, go
Speaker 1: to my mom, not because my mom. I just felt shameful, right,
Speaker 1: And so I didn't want her to feel that way
Speaker 1: and after that, you know, speaking there, you know other
Speaker 1: women that were in the n b A. I talked about,
Speaker 1: you know, the fighting, you know, infidelity, just the temptations
Speaker 1: that happened for everyone involved on both sides, and how
Speaker 1: God can take all of the things in my life
Speaker 1: and turn them around for good and I don't deserve
Speaker 1: any of that. When people ask me about Jesus, I
Speaker 1: just told them that I'm like, I know, just like
Speaker 1: the blond man that was helled. I don't know what
Speaker 1: you all want me to tell you, but all I
Speaker 1: know is is if He can take all this and
Speaker 1: me and still do all this good stuff in my
Speaker 1: life and use it for good for other people, That's
Speaker 1: all I need to know. Now. I hope you find it,
Speaker 1: but there's no other words that I can tell you
Speaker 1: to convince you about and show you and tell you
Speaker 1: how good God is and the grace and mercy that
Speaker 1: comes from being His child. So that was what it
Speaker 1: was about. It was about first getting over fear eric
Speaker 1: of just speaking and helping other people, being vulnerable myself
Speaker 1: and open myself up to criticism and shattering the facade
Speaker 1: of what everybody thought about. You know, me and our
Speaker 1: family and all of that, because you know, when you're
Speaker 1: walking around, you know, I didn't think I had a
Speaker 1: mask on. I felt like I was just a shadow
Speaker 1: of who I was, and so coming into the light
Speaker 1: it was you know, I think about that all the time.
Speaker 1: I say, I'm kind of reptiling it because I'm the
Speaker 1: one that don't like to be cold, and when the
Speaker 1: sun's out, I'm just sitting out there, like, give me suns.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of how I felt like when I
Speaker 1: come out and I share things, it's just like I'm
Speaker 1: out of the shadows and I'm in the sun, and
Speaker 1: this feels so good. Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful story.
Speaker 1: It's a brave thing to do, particularly in that environment.
Speaker 1: In those circumstances, I relate a little bit different in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. But I remember when my boys
Speaker 1: were maybe fourteen or fifteen, I was asked to do
Speaker 1: a TED talk, and my talk was really about my addiction,
Speaker 1: and they knew that I had been an addict, but
Speaker 1: I never really went into what that looked like, what happened.
Speaker 1: They were in the audience, and I remember being up
Speaker 1: on the stage kind of doing it and just having
Speaker 1: sort of that moment of like, I know this is
Speaker 1: the right thing to do, and I'm feeling a little
Speaker 1: bit anxious. And you describe sort of the car ride
Speaker 1: home with your daughter where you're sort of trying to
Speaker 1: feel out, like how she responding to what what I
Speaker 1: just did, you know, like coming out about you know
Speaker 1: how I mean had an abortion. And the way you
Speaker 1: wrote that is really beautiful and it's just sort of
Speaker 1: a touching scene, you know, because you could see the
Speaker 1: twelve year old and her, and you can also see
Speaker 1: the bond between you guys. It's it's really lovely and
Speaker 1: seeing if she still loved me after all that, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know her being able to see that, you know,
Speaker 1: if all that's going on, she knows I'll love her
Speaker 1: no matter what. Yeah, and then for her to hear
Speaker 1: that God will love her no matter what. But it's
Speaker 1: scary as heck. You're right, I'm sitting here shaken now
Speaker 1: talking about it. Like it's that feeling just still never
Speaker 1: goes away. Yeah. So you are very devoted to being
Speaker 1: a mother. You were very focused on it. You say
Speaker 1: at one point that being a parent you have to
Speaker 1: bring your a game right. It's similar to playing the
Speaker 1: sport at a high level. So we're really devoted. And
Speaker 1: then you know, one by one your children go off
Speaker 1: to school and your last child, your daughter, goes off
Speaker 1: to school, and you describe how really difficult this was
Speaker 1: for you. Talk a little bit about that, because I
Speaker 1: do think that we joke about emptiness syndrome and sort
Speaker 1: of passing, but I mean it's a real thing, like
Speaker 1: it could be really really hard when this happens, when
Speaker 1: our kids go off like this, well, because it's a
Speaker 1: life changing event. I mean, you go from spending every
Speaker 1: day on this ritual of waking up in the routines
Speaker 1: and Okay, I've got to make sure these things and
Speaker 1: just taking care of them. And so when they go
Speaker 1: off to college, and when she went off, she had
Speaker 1: been home with us five years, right at five years alone,
Speaker 1: it was just her and so when Dell was on
Speaker 1: the road, she would go with me to the boys gangs,
Speaker 1: and so she kind of became my traveling buddy, and
Speaker 1: our bond just grew deeper through that, and I just
Speaker 1: had time with her that I didn't really have time
Speaker 1: with the boys. And so when she left, it was like,
Speaker 1: now I wake up and don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: her going to school. I have to worry about making
Speaker 1: her breakfast, Like what now is my purpose? But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I was also like trying to figure
Speaker 1: out school, you know, was I going to retire? It
Speaker 1: started having grand babies, and it was like, I feel
Speaker 1: guilty when I'm not at school because I'm going to
Speaker 1: see my grand babies so good, and when I'm with
Speaker 1: my grand babies because I'm not at school, and but
Speaker 1: what am I doing? Like both of these are blessings,
Speaker 1: So I'm not complaining about I know one of them,
Speaker 1: but help me manage it. So then she leaves, and
Speaker 1: you know, they say they're like seven situations or incidents
Speaker 1: that happened in a person's life that are huge from
Speaker 1: the standpoint of life changing, but also a lot of
Speaker 1: people have bouts of depression because of it and are
Speaker 1: very stressful on a person's life biologically. And that's death, divorce, weddings,
Speaker 1: be bulding a house, retirement, and empty nesting and there's
Speaker 1: one more. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about retire it's empty nesty I'm just like whoa
Speaker 1: And would go get up in the morning and drive
Speaker 1: to go to the grocery store and find myself Eric
Speaker 1: Sitton in the parking lot for forty five minutes, never
Speaker 1: got out of the car, pittle around on my phone
Speaker 1: and then would pull out the parking lot and go home,
Speaker 1: and you know, went to the doctor and for my
Speaker 1: regular check up, and he just started asking me questions
Speaker 1: and I was like, I just broke out crying, and
Speaker 1: he was like, Okay, we need to help you. And
Speaker 1: realize that I had been in a state of depression
Speaker 1: because biologically I was used to doing certain things and
Speaker 1: I didn't have that rhythm anymore, and my body physically
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with it, not alone my
Speaker 1: mind trying to figure out, Okay, I I know I've
Speaker 1: gotta to move on and find something else to do,
Speaker 1: but my body couldn't keep up with it at the time. So, yes,
Speaker 1: it's a real thing when your children leave your home.
Speaker 1: And I think that we need to really give ourselves
Speaker 1: grace and really lean into it and just not move
Speaker 1: on to the next thing. I think we need to
Speaker 1: acknowledge it and embrace it and then move on to
Speaker 1: the next thing. You describe as part of working through
Speaker 1: this process that you decide you're as part of as
Speaker 1: part of this book just makes me laugh. Um, you
Speaker 1: decide that you're going to go off to a SPA weekend.
Speaker 1: Ye tell us about where you went, and I know
Speaker 1: where you went. I I know the place and you
Speaker 1: know I do. So you're expecting to go off on
Speaker 1: a SPA weekend. You decide that you need time to
Speaker 1: be quiet, you need time to listen to here maybe
Speaker 1: what's next for you in your life, and so so
Speaker 1: off you go to this place and I'll let you
Speaker 1: kind of pick it up there. Well before that, I
Speaker 1: decided that my daughter had just graduated and she moved
Speaker 1: out to the West Coast, so she was out there.
Speaker 1: Stephen was out there. Seth may have been out there
Speaker 1: because he was in the G League for the Warriors
Speaker 1: in Santa Cruz, or he may have been an erie,
Speaker 1: but he was somewhere. And for the first time, I
Speaker 1: just was not feeling them good. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go out there for Thanksgiving. And
Speaker 1: they were like what They were like, what's going on? Mom?
Speaker 1: And they've known over the years that when I kind
Speaker 1: of get in these modes where I'm like something's going
Speaker 1: to happen, there's going to be a change. I'm seeking
Speaker 1: God for a direction that I would withdraw some and
Speaker 1: either go somewhere for a weekend, go on retreat, or
Speaker 1: I would just withdraw within the home and fast once
Speaker 1: a week or go in my prayer closet. So they
Speaker 1: were kind of used to that, but they weren't used
Speaker 1: to me not participating with them, like for holidays. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, y'all just have to truck you understand,
Speaker 1: Like I just need this one holiday and I just
Speaker 1: gotta go and I gotta be give with God. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, let me spa. Let me I just need
Speaker 1: a spa. And yeah, some people accuse me if I
Speaker 1: talk about the glass one and I'm wanted these drinking
Speaker 1: Christians or whatever, but I'm like okay, uh. So I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, maybe they I just want to fireplace
Speaker 1: on spa. I want my journal, I want my Bible,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to wear in the mountains because the
Speaker 1: mountaintop is my thing with God. Like God has met me,
Speaker 1: have been on other retreats and gone to the tops
Speaker 1: of mountains that He has met me there, and so
Speaker 1: in my mind visually, that's where I go to meet Him.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I'm in the mountains and you know,
Speaker 1: spa fireplace and just sweats and I'm going to me God,
Speaker 1: and when I come down, I'm gonna know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have some directions. Off I go and climb on in
Speaker 1: the mountain and you know you've been there, and it's
Speaker 1: very kind of rusty, and I'm like, all right, this
Speaker 1: looks a little different. But all I saw was the spot.
Speaker 1: That's all I saw on the website. I saw nothing
Speaker 1: else but the spot. So I was like, okay, where's
Speaker 1: some food. I'm starving. Go into the calf um like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is different. This is a cafeteria with then the
Speaker 1: vegan food, and I was like, oh wow. And then
Speaker 1: I'm like, let me just go to my room, which
Speaker 1: is where the spot was, and maybe the world I
Speaker 1: was thinking, I'll walk in and be like, whoa, here
Speaker 1: it is luxury and whatever what I went for. And
Speaker 1: I get there and I'm like, oh my goodness, what
Speaker 1: in the world have And I'm I'm good for getting
Speaker 1: myself into some stuff. So I was having a lot
Speaker 1: of self talk with Sawny. I was like, what in
Speaker 1: the world have you done? You did not go out
Speaker 1: and been of time with your kids for Thanksgiving to
Speaker 1: do this, and so I'm like, okay, getting room. Long
Speaker 1: story short, fund out that there was no alcohol on
Speaker 1: the property period, no one. That's an X. There were
Speaker 1: no fireplaces. That was an AX. The food was all
Speaker 1: vegan and I had never eaten vegan food ever before
Speaker 1: in my life. Oh my gosh. So I'm not even
Speaker 1: gonna be able to call room service because you have
Speaker 1: to go there for your three meals. So there's no
Speaker 1: room and I'm like, oh gosh. And then my spot
Speaker 1: treatment and start till tomorrow and I'm way up here,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna have me a
Speaker 1: weekend because I didn't go out to the West Coast.
Speaker 1: So I got on my computer, I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go over to I forgot the name of
Speaker 1: the other place, to Grove Park in or something like that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm gonna book me a place over there. Lord,
Speaker 1: please let them have a vacancy for me to tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sleep tonight. I'm gonna get my treatment in
Speaker 1: the morning here and I'm gonna go over there. Well
Speaker 1: God said no, you're not, so got a did my treatment.
Speaker 1: They had a room, but then I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do the yoga mine as well while I'm here,
Speaker 1: and just every day Eric just something kept me there.
Speaker 1: I love the vegan food. I had never done meditation before,
Speaker 1: I've done yoga, but I laughed through the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I thought, this is so silly when I've done it
Speaker 1: previously in my life. And then I was just like,
Speaker 1: I'm digging this yoga. I'm digging the meditation and my
Speaker 1: spa treatment was great, and I get back to the
Speaker 1: room and swear that I was gonna leave the next day.
Speaker 1: Well four days past, three nights, four days past, and
Speaker 1: it was the best experience I've ever had from the
Speaker 1: standpoint of God just really showing me again just how
Speaker 1: omnipotent he is. And just Sonny, if you say you
Speaker 1: really follow me, I'm really going to guide you. And
Speaker 1: that was just another one in those examples. And then
Speaker 1: coming down, i'd had this friend it was like you
Speaker 1: need to go hiking. Sometimes I'm like okay, but kind
Speaker 1: of scared too or just it was going to be
Speaker 1: too inconvenient. And saw a sign it said hiking trail.
Speaker 1: Pulled over, got out of the car by myself get
Speaker 1: on this hiking trail and I'm alone and the cellphone
Speaker 1: doesn't work. Anything could have happened to me there, and
Speaker 1: so at the time Dell didn't know that I had
Speaker 1: stopped and to do this trail. He didn't know this,
Speaker 1: and so nobody knew where I was at at all.
Speaker 1: But along this way, God just showed me just walk.
Speaker 1: You gotta walk. You don't know where you're going, you
Speaker 1: gotta trust me, and you're getting ready to go on
Speaker 1: a different journey. And then when I came off the mountain,
Speaker 1: it was it's time to write this book, and I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, here we go. Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: It was just one of those Sonia moments with God
Speaker 1: where it's like I just just just got a walk. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You were in the Art of Living retreat Center, which
Speaker 1: is a Indian influenced style of breathing and really interesting approach,
Speaker 1: and it just cracked me up when you were describing
Speaker 1: getting there and being like, well, this is not what
Speaker 1: I expected. I had a different experience, which is a
Speaker 1: little bit different, but it was similar. When I finally
Speaker 1: agreed I was going to go to rehab again, and
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to this place that was
Speaker 1: like I had seen it and it was on a
Speaker 1: golf course and it was like a country club, and
Speaker 1: we pull up to the place I'm actually going and
Speaker 1: it's an old tuberculosis hospital, and I was like, you
Speaker 1: have got to be kidding me. Turned out to be
Speaker 1: the best thing for me, though, As a way of
Speaker 1: wrapping up, I'm just kind of curious. So I know
Speaker 1: that the book was the next thing for you. Your
Speaker 1: next purpose was to write the book. The book is written.
Speaker 1: I know you are have a very vigorous promotion schedule.
Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of what's next for you?
Speaker 1: This is my next right now. I am in this
Speaker 1: and trying to commit totally to this because again, you know,
Speaker 1: all the things that we get delivered through. I always
Speaker 1: tell people I don't really feel like I've totally been delivered.
Speaker 1: You know, God heals us and delivers us out of things,
Speaker 1: but I tend to want to tell myself and live
Speaker 1: on He delivers us through them, so you know, the
Speaker 1: temptations of things and life will always be there. He
Speaker 1: just gives us that power to just trudge through and
Speaker 1: just get through it. And every time it gets a
Speaker 1: little bit easier and a little bit easier, but they
Speaker 1: don't just go away. Our challenges are nemesis. None of
Speaker 1: that ever really goes away. And so with that fear,
Speaker 1: I deal a lot with fear, and people go what like,
Speaker 1: you know, your presence is just so like confident and
Speaker 1: you and I'm like, y'all don't have a clue. I've
Speaker 1: realized I'm a people pleaser. And when you're a people pleaser,
Speaker 1: you love people, you want to nurture in them, and
Speaker 1: you have a sense of fear. That is not a
Speaker 1: good combination that goes together. So it's not a good
Speaker 1: recipe for for success. So this book has been a
Speaker 1: healing process for me too, of just being able to
Speaker 1: reflect on raising my children and those chapters of my life,
Speaker 1: because you know, as a parent, when you're in it,
Speaker 1: you're in it. And you know, I used to say
Speaker 1: I was so busy parenting, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: really really got to enjoy parenting. And so this book
Speaker 1: has given me an opportunity to enjoy the parenting from
Speaker 1: you know, a different perspective, just reflection, and so I'm
Speaker 1: trying to enjoy that. But I'm also know that this
Speaker 1: book was meant for good and it has a purpose,
Speaker 1: and so the fear in me is, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do these things. Oh, I don't want to
Speaker 1: go do this, and I don't want to do this
Speaker 1: and uh, and God saying no because this is my book.
Speaker 1: God saying this is my book and I need you
Speaker 1: to go with it. I'm just gonna say, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna be in this time and get up every day
Speaker 1: and feed myself with what I need to do this
Speaker 1: book right now until God says time for something else,
Speaker 1: and not get ahead of him, because I will have
Speaker 1: a tendency to do that as well. But He has
Speaker 1: proven to me to mean times to count when he
Speaker 1: ready for me to move, He lets me know and
Speaker 1: sometimes ignore him, Yes, come back couple times. But that's
Speaker 1: what I love about him, and I know how much
Speaker 1: he knows me, and because of that, I can love others.
Speaker 1: So that's where I am. Eric. I'm just gonna sit
Speaker 1: with this book and we're gonna go and go where
Speaker 1: God tells us to go and say what God wants
Speaker 1: us to say and share and love on people, just
Speaker 1: let them know the joy that can be had. And
Speaker 1: you know, this world is tough. We gotta laugh, we
Speaker 1: gotta find some joy, and yes, we gotta be intentional
Speaker 1: and passionate about parenting and about our relationships, but we
Speaker 1: also have to have grace and mercy for ourselves to
Speaker 1: um and how to find that balance. Good luck with
Speaker 1: whoever is trying it right. I'm still trying to do it,
Speaker 1: but just give it the best effort. Next play and
Speaker 1: let's just do it, do what he wants us to do. Well.
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful place to wrap up. So and you,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I wish you the best of
Speaker 1: luck in this current chapter and whatever the next chapter is.
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for taking the time to
Speaker 1: come on today. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: I have to be quite honest with you, This interview
Speaker 1: in this podcast has been the first one that actually
Speaker 1: I felt like was totally about the book. And I
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much because you've given me
Speaker 1: an opportunity to practice for the rest of them, but
Speaker 1: also like you bought some legitimacy to the book. Like
Speaker 1: you this interview, I so enjoyed it, Eric, So thank
Speaker 1: you so much. I thank God for this opportunity, and
Speaker 1: just pray God will continue to bless you and your
Speaker 1: work and what you're doing, and if there's anything that
Speaker 1: I can ever do for you, don't hesitate to ask.
Speaker 1: I'm here all right, Thank you so much. Al Right, sweete,
Speaker 1: have a blessed day you too. If what you just
Speaker 1: heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly
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