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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: What's going on?

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Speaker 3: How are you?

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm late. I was on the Barbara, one

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Speaker 4: of the big shrimping boots.

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Speaker 1: I'm back at the Aransas Past Progress newspaper and talking

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Speaker 1: with publisher John Bowers.

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Speaker 5: I need his help.

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Speaker 1: But John has the same problems that any business owner has.

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Speaker 4: How's it going? What's new?

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Speaker 2: No, I've got seer problems that I didn't create.

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Speaker 5: And I'm trying to solve at your house.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 7: Here the best plumber. I was talking to you right there.

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Speaker 8: I'm sorry, and never ends.

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Speaker 1: After we chat for a bit, I ask him for

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Speaker 1: a favor, since he's been in Aransas Past for decades.

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Speaker 1: I need directions to where Dorothy Simon's was buried by

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Speaker 1: her killer in nineteen thirty one. John pulls out this

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Speaker 1: huge map show us.

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Speaker 4: And you did you have any understanding based on what

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Speaker 4: I sent you where this body was?

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Speaker 8: You know what it is?

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Speaker 9: You did?

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Speaker 10: I found out? Okay, you came. You came right here

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Speaker 10: along the causeway.

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Speaker 8: It's brought to you in durand his path.

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Speaker 10: The body was right here in this area, right here.

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Speaker 4: So if I go straight down that way.

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Speaker 10: If you go up to Wilson, you take a ride

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Speaker 10: and you go through that light, you come all the

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Speaker 10: way down there's there's Redfish boat house, Redfish Willies. That's

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Speaker 10: all up right in there.

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Speaker 8: That's about where the body was.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is a good map, so right about in

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Speaker 4: right here.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, Now all this was not an existence back then,

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Speaker 10: but the sea wall and all that was right along

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Speaker 10: and here. Apparently the body was drug over the sea

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Speaker 10: wall and dropped in here.

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Speaker 7: And why would he do that?

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Speaker 9: Why not just let it?

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Speaker 1: I know I've been thinking about that. Why wouldn't her

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Speaker 1: killer just leave in the bay and let her body

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Speaker 1: float out to sea? Why bury her? Perhaps it was

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Speaker 1: his twisted idea of love or respect. My parents are

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Speaker 1: Jack and Lynn la Fever. You might remember my stepfather

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Speaker 1: from season three of tenfold More Wicked, the story about

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Speaker 1: Howard Pearson and why he murdered his parents. They're both

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Speaker 1: really empathetic people, which is why I talk to them

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Speaker 1: about these stories. Particularly when the victims are young women.

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Speaker 1: I bring them to the murder site.

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Speaker 5: After this is where they found the body.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, in nineteen thirty one, So this is anything like this, right,

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Speaker 4: I know, very muddy and this has probably all been

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Speaker 4: failed in since then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty isolated.

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Speaker 5: I would guests said, nice.

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Speaker 4: It's isolated at night now, baby, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry. They think she was killed.

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Speaker 1: Here, well close by, and then they think that he

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Speaker 1: dragged the body over here.

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Speaker 5: Jeez.

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Speaker 1: My mom is a huge true crime fan. You've heard

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Speaker 1: me say that before, but this story is difficult for her,

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Speaker 1: probably because she can visualize it now that we're actually here.

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Speaker 1: My parents have always had interesting theories and they're usually right.

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Speaker 5: Mom. You watch a lot of serial killer stuff.

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Speaker 4: What does it when mean when somebody is burying a body?

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Speaker 4: Why would you bury a body rather than let it

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Speaker 4: go out to see?

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Speaker 5: Is it because they wanted her to be found? Well,

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Speaker 5: it's isolated.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: I think he did not want the body to go

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Speaker 10: out to see. I think that he probably wanted her

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Speaker 10: to be found.

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Speaker 5: Did he have any kind of a relationship with Yes.

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Speaker 4: They were dating.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I can understand.

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Speaker 11: Well, this is a mean place to leave someone, that's

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Speaker 11: for sure. Why because the body would be destroyed. I mean,

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Speaker 11: not only are they going to kill them, but they're

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Speaker 11: going to destroy the body.

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Speaker 1: Almost a week had passed since the discovery of Dorothy

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Speaker 1: Simon's body in the summer of nineteen thirty one. On

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Speaker 1: August second, Dorothy was laid to rest. Her parents and

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Speaker 1: her brothers should have been allowed to grieve in private,

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Speaker 1: but they couldn't because Dorothy's death was the biggest news

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Speaker 1: story on the coast of Texas. The sheriff had taken

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Speaker 1: in the young man she had been swimming with the

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Speaker 1: night she disappeared. Newton Yarberry was Dorothy's on again, off

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Speaker 1: again boyfriend, and he was labeled a troublemaker by some

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Speaker 1: people in the town. The sheriff sent Newton to a

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Speaker 1: jail in Stinton, just thirty miles away, to avoid a

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Speaker 1: lot of publicity. This story was a dream for the press.

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Speaker 1: An attractive young woman goes missing only to be found dead,

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Speaker 1: buried in a shallow grave on the beach, and her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend might have been the last person to see her alive.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff was convinced that Newton was guilty, and of

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Speaker 1: course that makes sense. Newton had a dubious alibi provided

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Speaker 1: by his parents. Dorothy told friends that she and Newton

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Speaker 1: were going swimming in the bay that night. Who else

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Speaker 1: would it be. But here's the problem. There was little

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Speaker 1: physical evidence to tie him to her murder, and we've

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Speaker 1: talked about the other suspects. We have Dorothy's biological father,

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Speaker 1: we have Bill Strain's father, we have Tom Kam, and

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Speaker 1: there might even be a random stranger in there, like

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Speaker 1: one of those shrimpers. So maybe Newton was innocent. The

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Speaker 1: sheriff continued to investigate using all of the forensic tools

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Speaker 1: he had, which were not many in this case. I'm

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Speaker 1: fascinated by the ways forensic science continues to evolve. The

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Speaker 1: technology used in crime investigations today would have been unthinkable

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Speaker 1: one hundred years ago. I asked former federal investigator Fred

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Speaker 1: Burton how investigations were handled back then.

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Speaker 3: You have to step back and look at what forensics

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Speaker 3: are available during that time period. You don't have a lot.

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Speaker 3: You have at best a justice of the peace, maybe

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Speaker 3: a sheriff, maybe a Texas ranger that could be brought

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Speaker 3: in to assist. You have a medical examiner, which for

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Speaker 3: the most part probably would have been the local undertaker

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Speaker 3: that's going to be called to the scene.

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Speaker 1: And undertakers weren't generally medically trained, so what other tools

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Speaker 1: could they use.

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Speaker 3: You're going to be first using whatever limited photography skills.

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Speaker 3: You have to take a picture of that if you

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Speaker 3: do have a camera, and then you're going to slowly

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Speaker 3: try to look around for whatever might be visible clues

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Speaker 3: such as a tire track or any other potential witnesses

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Speaker 3: that might have seen something, whether it had been a fisherman.

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Speaker 3: You're thinking through that.

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Speaker 1: Logically, forensic evidence might have been limited in Dorothy's case,

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Speaker 1: but the number of suspects wasn't. At the top of

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Speaker 1: the list were the two men who were possibly the

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Speaker 1: last to see her alive, Tom Connor and newton Yarberry.

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Speaker 1: Could one of them have been so desperate for her

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Speaker 1: affection that eliminating the other suitor wasn't enough. If the

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Speaker 1: dejected man couldn't have her, then perhaps he had to

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Speaker 1: make sure that no one else would. But there were

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Speaker 1: other possibilities that needed to be cleared. There was Dorothy's

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Speaker 1: biological father, Ralph Johnson. The sheriff tracked down Ralph and

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Speaker 1: his family and interviewed everyone. Ralph of course denied that

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Speaker 1: he had ever been a bad father, that he had

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Speaker 1: plotted to have a Chicago gangster kidnap his daughter, and

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Speaker 1: he absolutely denied being involved in her murder. He also

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Speaker 1: had an alibi. Ralph's family placed him back home in Indiana,

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Speaker 1: but who knows, Maybe they were protecting him. Howard and

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Speaker 1: Agnes Simons had cut off all contact with him years ago,

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Speaker 1: so they had no idea. Still, it would be foolish

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Speaker 1: for the sheriff to rule him out, even if he

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Speaker 1: did have an alibi. Then there's the suspect I consider

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Speaker 1: to be the odd man out. Roy Strain, Bill Stran's father,

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Speaker 1: was also questioned. He worked for a local car dealership

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Speaker 1: and he had asked Dorothy to travel with him to

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Speaker 1: make deliveries several times. The Corpus Christie Times Caller wrote this,

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Speaker 1: Roy Strain and automobile salesman told of two trips, one

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Speaker 1: to Skidmore and one to Rockport, where he repossessed automobiles,

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Speaker 1: on which trips he was a companied by miss Simons.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what happened during those car rides when he

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Speaker 1: was alone with Dorothy. We already know that Roy Strain

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Speaker 1: wasn't perfect. He liked to drink, he liked to corrouse.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff must have been curious about this too. I

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Speaker 1: asked Michael Strain to read an excerpt from his father's blog.

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Speaker 1: Bill had written an account of what his father remembers

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Speaker 1: back in nineteen thirty one about this case.

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Speaker 2: Dad went out on the front porch to talk to

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Speaker 2: the deputies. When my dad came back into the house,

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Speaker 2: my mother's voice could barely be heard. What did they want, Roy?

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Speaker 2: My dad answered, they wanted to talk to me about

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Speaker 2: the Dorothy Simon's murder case. I'll be going to the

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Speaker 2: Sheriff's office tomorrow to make a statement. Relief swept over

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Speaker 2: my mother like a warm breeze.

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Speaker 4: So this is very specific, this paragraph. When this happened

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Speaker 4: when he was four again?

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Speaker 3: And is that family members?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. It's hard for me to I mean,

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Speaker 2: I have memories from when I was four years old,

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Speaker 2: but they're they're gauzy, you know, they're not that specific.

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Speaker 3: How was he able to fill in the banks?

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Speaker 12: Do you think he was able to remember that?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. He remembered that that my grandpa had testified.

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Speaker 2: He also remembered my grandfather had been questioned, that they

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Speaker 2: had come, and I think asked my grandfather to come

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Speaker 2: down to the police station and talk with them. I

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Speaker 2: don't I never saw in the news accounts anywhere where

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Speaker 2: they even considered my grandpa to be a suspect. But

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that to my you know, I mean when

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Speaker 2: you're a kid, you know, if your dad goes off

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Speaker 2: the police station to talk with investigators, would you would

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Speaker 2: worry about that?

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Speaker 6: I mean, do you think.

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Speaker 1: There's a chance your grandfather could have.

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Speaker 4: Yes, you never know.

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Speaker 2: My father was much more open minded than me about

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Speaker 2: these things. I would fall over dead of a heart attack.

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Speaker 2: Of my grandpa was involved in Dorothy Simon's murderer, but

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Speaker 2: I knew him at a different time. I think he

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Speaker 2: might have been a drinker and a womanizer like that,

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Speaker 2: But I can't picture my grandpa would be a murderer.

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Speaker 1: There was also the possibility that a random stranger killed Dorothy,

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Speaker 1: maybe a vagabond, someone roaming the country desperately looking for work,

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Speaker 1: or maybe it was an attempted robbery gone wrong. So

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Speaker 1: her killer might not have been a jolted lover, or

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Speaker 1: a jealous boyfriend, or a sketchy car salesman or an

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Speaker 1: estranged father. Who was it? Someone killed Dorothy Simons, though

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Speaker 1: there were still many questions. For example, it was unclear

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Speaker 1: whether her murder was premeditated. Remember that Dorothy was found

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Speaker 1: wearing just a bathing suit. The sheriff said her clothes

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Speaker 1: were missing, and so was her purse, even the shoes

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Speaker 1: she wore. To choir who would steal those things? The

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Speaker 1: killer likely discarded them in the ocean, just another way

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Speaker 1: to cover up evidence. But what if Dorothy had been

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Speaker 1: murdered by a monster who had already killed. In the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties or earlier, someone who killed three people or

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Speaker 1: more was labeled a multiple murderer. The FBI didn't coin

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Speaker 1: the phrase serial killer until the nineteen seventies, when agents

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Speaker 1: began to profile murderers who frequently killed to fulfill some

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Speaker 1: kind of satisfaction. Dorothy's death seemed so violent and so

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Speaker 1: well covered up that I wonder if the killer was experienced.

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Speaker 1: I asked cold case investigator Paul Holes what he thought.

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Speaker 1: Does this sound like someone who has done this before?

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Speaker 1: Or is it possible that someone could actually be this

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Speaker 1: organized during his first murder?

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Speaker 12: You could have somebody who has been involved in this

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Speaker 12: body disposal process before. If you have a reasonably intelligent

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Speaker 12: person who is thinking about I want to commit a

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Speaker 12: crime for whatever reason, how am I going to get

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Speaker 12: away with it? What resources do I readily have access

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Speaker 12: to or can get access to, in order to get

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Speaker 12: those resources lined up ahead of time in order to

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Speaker 12: accomplish the crime. That's your intelligent offender.

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Speaker 1: I searched the local newspapers, both online and at the

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Speaker 1: office of the Iran Past Progress newspaper, but it's hard

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Speaker 1: to know what keyword to use, since serial killer wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be useful. Then I remembered that Bill Strain had printed

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Speaker 1: dozens of articles on his blog that he and his

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Speaker 1: son Michael found at the same newspaper office in Ramsa's

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Speaker 1: Past that I had visited. Michael had typed out thousands

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Speaker 1: of words for his father's blog. I finally found something interesting.

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Speaker 1: Here's the copy. A mystery man who strangled and attempted

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Speaker 1: to criminally attack women in a number of South Texas

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Speaker 1: towns in June was believed by Corpus Christie officers last

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Speaker 1: night to be the murderer of Dorothy Simon's Really, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't heard that before, and this man was attacking women

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Speaker 1: just two months before Dorothy died, the reporter wrote. Officers

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Speaker 1: recalled they were requested to keep a sharp lookout for

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Speaker 1: a man who attacked women in El Campo, Yoakum Beeville

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Speaker 1: and Victoria. I cross referenced the article online just so

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Speaker 1: I could confirm two of these towns mentioned were less

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Speaker 1: than sixty miles from Aransas Pass. There was a railway

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Speaker 1: close to Aransas Pass that this man could have taken.

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Speaker 1: The theory of a serial killer was absolutely plausible, and

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Speaker 1: it created reasonable doubt that Tom Connor or newton Yarberry

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Speaker 1: killed Dorothy. So now police officers from Corpus Christi, the

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Speaker 1: largest town in the area, believed there could be a

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Speaker 1: connection between those killings and Dorothy's murder. I kept digging

257
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Speaker 1: for evidence of this strangler, but it didn't help my

258
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Speaker 1: search that there was a professional wrestler in the nineteen

259
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Speaker 1: thirties named Ed Strangler Lewis. And then there were more complications.

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Speaker 1: A woman had been strangled in her own home three

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Speaker 1: months earlier, but that happened in Dallas, almost four hundred

262
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Speaker 1: miles away. I would say that's a pretty far flung

263
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Speaker 1: hunting ground for a serial killer, but we now know

264
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Speaker 1: that they can and do travel like Ted Bundy did.

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Speaker 1: Just something to remember there was a serial strangler in

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Speaker 1: San Diego and one in New England. All of this

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Speaker 1: reminded me of the violence of choking someone to death,

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Speaker 1: often bones in the neck, break and manual strangulation is

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Speaker 1: particularly personal, maybe the most personal of all murder methods.

270
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Speaker 1: Police see it often in crimes of passion. Your hands

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Speaker 1: can be dangerous weapons. Investigators in the nineteen thirties just

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Speaker 1: didn't have enough evidence to tie the serial killer to

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Simons. There were loads of near dwells in Ransa's Pass,

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Speaker 1: ex convicts and drifters, and sketchy shrimp boat workers and

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Speaker 1: suspicious carpenters like Tom Connor. The sheriff was stymied in

276
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Speaker 1: the search for Dorothy's killer, and theories about a motive

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Speaker 1: for murder were wide ranging. I found this excerpt on

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Speaker 1: Bill Strain's blog. He's writing from memories he had as

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Speaker 1: four year old boy. There was a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: about the murder of Dorothy Simons. I know that from

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Speaker 1: the time her body was found until several years later

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Speaker 1: when the last trial was held. It was a conversation

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Speaker 1: explored in all the homes of Ramsa's Pass. I seem

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Speaker 1: to remember adults discussing the possibility of Dorothy being pregnant,

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Speaker 1: But I think in nineteen thirty one you couldn't even

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Speaker 1: use that word in the newspapers, certainly not on radio.

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Speaker 1: It's not clear how far these rumors traveled. They may

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Speaker 1: have made the gossip rounds within the Saint Mary's Church members.

289
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Speaker 1: It was certainly discussed in Bill Strain's childhood home, but

290
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Speaker 1: it never made it into the papers. The rumored pregnancy

291
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,040
Speaker 1: might have been speculation on the part of Dorothy's friends,

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Speaker 1: or a way for people in the town to smear

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Speaker 1: her reputation. Pregnancy would have been a disgrace for an

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Speaker 1: unmarried young woman in the nineteen thirties. There were people

295
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Speaker 1: who saw her not as the angelic choir girl, but

296
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Speaker 1: as a teenager with a wild streak and loose morals. Earlier,

297
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Speaker 1: we talked about Roy Strain, Bill Straine's father. The sheriff

298
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Speaker 1: quickly ruled him out as a suspect. Yes, he spent

299
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Speaker 1: time alone with Dorothy. Yes it might have been inappropriate,

300
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Speaker 1: but it didn't make him a killer. There just wasn't

301
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Speaker 1: any evidence there. Dorothy's biological father, Ralph Johnson, was also

302
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 1: a suspect, but his family insisted that he was in

303
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 1: Indiana with them. He had once threatened to kidnap Dorothy

304
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Speaker 1: so Agnes would give him money, yet he never threatened

305
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Speaker 1: to harm his daughter. So the police turned their attention

306
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 1: back to the original prime suspect, Newton Yarbury, and this

307
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 1: time the District Attorney convened a grand jury to decide

308
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 1: if he should go to trial for murder. The DA

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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: presented evidence to the grand jury in the case of

310
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Speaker 1: the State of Texas versus Newton Yarbury. The prosecutor interviewed

311
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Speaker 1: witnesses and heard a bit about his relationship with Dorothy.

312
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 1: I called the clerk's office in San Patricio County where

313
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: the Stinton Jail is. It took a bit, but they

314
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: finally tracked down the original statement from the grand jury.

315
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Speaker 1: They spent a lot of time deliberating, and on August tenth,

316
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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, the jurors issued this statement. The grand

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Speaker 1: jury have thoroughly investigated the facts surrounding the killing of

318
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Speaker 1: Dorothy Dorcas Simons, and at this time returned one bill

319
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Speaker 1: of indictment against Newton Yarbury in connection with said killing.

320
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Speaker 1: Newton Yarbury would face a murder trial, and yet the

321
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Speaker 1: judge released Newton from jail on a thirty five hundred

322
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Speaker 1: dollars bail bond. It's not unusual for a bond to

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Speaker 1: be set for a murder charge. If this were a

324
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Speaker 1: capital charge, it would probably be different. He probably wouldn't

325
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Speaker 1: get a bond. A capital charge means murder coupled with

326
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Speaker 1: another felony charge like robbery or kidnapping. One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons that Newton was likely offered bail was that the

328
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Speaker 1: sheriff didn't have enough evidence against him. Also, a person's

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Speaker 1: prior criminal record comes into play, and Newton seemed to

330
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Speaker 1: have a clean record. But clearly the Yarberies were wealthy people.

331
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Speaker 1: Thirty five hundred dollars was a lot of money back

332
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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty one. It would be about sixty five

333
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Speaker 1: thousand dollars to day. I talked with a friend of

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Speaker 1: mine who is a criminal defense attorney, and he said

335
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Speaker 1: that Newton's bond was sizable, and that's probably because this

336
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 1: murder was high profile. It certainly seemed that the Yarberies

337
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,680
Speaker 1: had easy access to the funds needed for Newton's bail.

338
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 1: But there might be a red flag here. With much

339
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Speaker 1: of America deep in the Great Depression, I wonder how

340
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 1: many people actually had that much money in cash. Probably

341
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Speaker 1: not many, and certainly not in a working class town

342
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: like Port Auransis. I looked into the Yardbury family some more,

343
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Speaker 1: and I'm guessing Bill Strain did that too. There wasn't

344
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: much about them in his blog, but remember that much

345
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 1: of his research was done before some newspaper databases were

346
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: developed online. I wanted to find out what position Newton's father,

347
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 1: Alex held at Humble Oil and Gas. It turns out

348
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: that Alex Yarberry was a pipeline worker. That might not

349
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: sound like a job with a high salary, but even

350
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: during the Great Depression, oil in Texas was booming, and

351
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 1: the Yarberys had been in Aransas Pass for almost thirty years,

352
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Speaker 1: and it looked like Alex had actually worked there for decades.

353
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Speaker 1: As I was coming through articles from the early nineteen

354
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Speaker 1: thirties at the local newspaper, I was reminded of how

355
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Speaker 1: lawless this time period was. Prohibition was put in place

356
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: to help solve society social problems with liquor sales, band

357
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: and illegal industry was forced underground. Robbery and bootlegging and

358
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 1: loan sharking all helped the alcohol continue to flow. So

359
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: Pass was a place where illegal things happened all the time. Meantime,

360
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 1: not only did Alex Jarberry pay Newton's bond, he was

361
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: also intent on protecting his son, and soon Newton's father

362
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: shifted suspicion for Dorothy's murder on to someone else. Alex

363
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 1: Jarberry filed an official complaint of murder against Tom Connor.

364
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: He was the young man who also saw Dorothy Simons

365
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 1: the night she was killed. He had admitted that he

366
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 1: escorted Dorothy from her friend's home to downtown Ramsa's pass.

367
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Speaker 1: Of course, I wanted to know exactly what the complaint said,

368
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: so I searched for some kind of written record, but

369
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: nothing turned up. I can only assume that this stemmed

370
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: from Newton's pre trial hearing, where Tom had admitted that

371
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: he was with Dorothy that night. Any citizen could file

372
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: a complaint, and once Alex Jarberry filed one, the sheriff

373
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: brought Tom in and decided to arrest him for murder.

374
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Speaker 1: A pre trial hearing would decide if he should go

375
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: on trial. When reporters asked Alex Jarberry about the complaint,

376
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: he said that the sheriff wasn't giving Newton a square deal,

377
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: and Tom seemed like a very likely suspect, which is true.

378
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: On Monday, August sixth, nineteen thirty one, the Corpus Christy

379
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: Caller printed news about Tom Connor's arrest. Tom sat in

380
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: the stint in jail, the same one where Newton had been.

381
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: When the sheriff approached Tom searching for answers, he played

382
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: it cool. Yes, he admitted to seeing Dorothy that night. Yes,

383
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: Newton seemed angry. But Tom had an alibi, a pretty

384
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: good one. Several people were ready to say that they

385
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,959
Speaker 1: were with Tom Connor that night at a get together

386
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: from nine point thirty until midnight, right when Dorothy was

387
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: likely murdered. But despite a strong alibi with multiple witnesses,

388
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: Tom Connor wasn't getting off that easily with the sheriff.

389
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: He still appeared to be pretty suspect. Michael Strain told

390
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: me that his father Bill, dug up some details that

391
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: also seemed suspicious about Tom, but they really weren't that damning.

392
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: He had apparently done a bad check in Oklahoma. I mean,

393
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, yeah, he's a real criminally passed

394
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: a bad check, and maybe in nineteen thirty one that

395
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: was a big deal, but they were trying to make

396
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 2: him look like he was a real criminal.

397
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: With Tom Connor and jail. Newspaper reporters asked Dorothy's stepfather

398
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,479
Speaker 1: to make a statement, but Howard Simons refused. The family

399
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: was surely grieving, so maybe they simply didn't want to

400
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: be bothered. That's understandable, but frankly, Howard Simons was confused.

401
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: He had never suspected Newton or Tom at first, but

402
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: they were both with her the night she died. Howard

403
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: liked Newton and he didn't know thirty year old Tom

404
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: very well, but something was a little off. Newton hadn't

405
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: come to talk to the Simons after Dorothy died. Perhaps

406
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: Newton felt guilty, or maybe his aturne told him to

407
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: stay away from them. Either way, Howard Simons was having

408
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: a change of heart. He was afraid that Newton Yarbery

409
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: had killed his stepdaughter. The grand jury had already decided

410
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: that Newton Yarberry should stand trial for murder, but the

411
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: panel also considered Tom Conner's case. He was still sitting

412
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: in jail as Newton left Stinton for Ramsa's pass out

413
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: on bail. But Tom had an alibi, no serious criminal record,

414
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: and no motive. After considering all the evidence, the grand

415
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: jury closed the case against him. They said, we also

416
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: return a no bill against Tom Connor as to his

417
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: connection with said killing. Tom Connor was officially cleared after

418
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: sitting in jail for four days. Now, I asked Michael

419
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: Strain about Tom and what he thought about the case

420
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 1: against him, and he thought maybe he should have been

421
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: looked at a little more closely.

422
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: He did get arrested, but he was almost immediately released

423
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 2: because they just didn't have anything on him at all.

424
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: They should have investigated him more.

425
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: In the meantime, the rumor that Dorothy had been pregnant

426
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: at the time of her death was still circulating around town.

427
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: Now there was an autopsy, but the sheriff never publicly

428
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: released the results, which didn't help with all the rumors.

429
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: If she had been pregnant, he probably would have said

430
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: something about that, And now the prosecutor was planning his attack.

431
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: He argued that Newton Yarberry was incredibly insecure and very jealous.

432
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: Maybe the young couple started the evening on a pleasant note,

433
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: both looking forward to their date to go swimming, and

434
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: then maybe Dorothy said something that offended Newton and threw

435
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: him into a fit of rage. Maybe she broke up

436
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: with him, then he lashed out and overpowered her. Maybe

437
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: Newton had killed Dorothy accidentally or inefit of passion. There

438
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: were several scenarios. What if Newton were spying on Dorothy.

439
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: She was young and popular and attractive. She might have

440
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: flirted a little bit too. Newton might not have trusted her,

441
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: especially after seeing her with Tom Connor. They might have

442
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: just been having an innocent conversation but it threw Newton

443
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: into a rage. What if Newton were actually in love

444
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: with Dorothy and he didn't mean to hurt her. What

445
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: if he panicked and rather than face a murder charge,

446
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: Newton moved her body to make it look like an

447
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: accidental drowning. And then there's the very real possibility that

448
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Newton planned the whole thing after he saw her with Tom,

449
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: that he was so jealous that he wanted Dorothy dead.

450
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: And if that's really what happened, Newton Yarberry had committed

451
00:26:47,040 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: one of the worst crimes, premeditated murder. On September twenty third,

452
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, jury selection began. In any murder trial,

453
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: picking jurors is critical to both the prosecution and the defense.

454
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: This takes me back to Season four and the murder

455
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: case against the Tiger Woman Clara Phillips. If you remember,

456
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: she was poised and charming and attractive and intelligent. She

457
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: was also an accused killer. She was put on trial

458
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: for savagely murdering her husband's alleged mistress. Contemporary forensic psychiatrist

459
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: labeled her as a psychopath, a female psychopath, which is unusual.

460
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: The jury at her trial was largely male. Only three

461
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: female jurors were on the panel. All three wanted to

462
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: convict Clara Phillips a first degree murder, but the nine

463
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: men on the jury were swayed by her charms. Her

464
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: conviction was reduced to second degree murder with a ten

465
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: year sentence. The three women jurors wanted to see her hang,

466
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: said the jury foreman, but compromised on second degree murder. Supposedly,

467
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: Clara's smile had softened the hearts of male jurors.

468
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 3: I believe it.

469
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in injecting important developments regarding women's history

470
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: into the stories I cover. It's a given now that

471
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: in US courts of law there's usually an equitable number

472
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: of men and women serving on juries. That definitely wasn't

473
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: the case one hundred years ago, women's formal inclusion in

474
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: public life was that limited. By nineteen twenty seven, only

475
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: nineteen states allowed women to serve on juries, and Texas

476
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: wasn't one of them. So newton Yarberry's jury was all male.

477
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: Let's return to one of the biggest dilemmas in this case.

478
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: There was very little evidence found at the crime scene,

479
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: especially since the murder site was the ocean. Without physical proof,

480
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: it can be challenging to try someone for murder. This

481
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: killer was meticulous. He seemed to have searched the area

482
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: near the sea wall to carefully remove any clues, almost

483
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: all of the clues. There was actually one piece of

484
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: evidence left at the scene, muddy footprints in the sand.

485
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: Criminal intelligence analysis is a key component in felony murder trials.

486
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: But what happens when forensic evidence is almost nonexistent or

487
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: when the minimal amount that's been gathered is potentially unreliable?

488
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: I asked defense attorney David Sheppard how the courts manage

489
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: situations like these. Let's talk about some different elements to cases,

490
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: specifically about reliability of certain pieces of evidence. Footprints, Are

491
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: they reliable?

492
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 8: Any scientific evidence or expert evidence? The quality of how

493
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 8: liable they are depends upon the quality of the expert

494
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 8: making the judgment. If you've got good experts, that kind

495
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 8: of evidence can be very reliable. If you've got poor ones,

496
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 8: not so like footprints. I mean, footprints are really tricky. Sure,

497
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 8: it depends on the physical circumstances the material at the footprints,

498
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 8: in how how long since the footprint was made, what's

499
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 8: happened to it since it was made, and before it

500
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 8: was preserved. Those can make it a very difficult call

501
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 8: in trying to match up a footprint. So I think

502
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 8: that's pretty weak evidence, as opposed to say, DNA testing, which,

503
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 8: if done riot is extraordinarily powerful and accurate.

504
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 4: But in the nineteen thirties, boy, the availability of forensic

505
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 4: anything was pretty slim compared to now.

506
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 8: It was the wild West, and not even the nineteen thirties,

507
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 8: I mean up until really just the last twenty years

508
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 8: have the courts started to rein in these ridiculous expert

509
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 8: Just some local deputy sheriff decides he's an expert on whatever,

510
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 8: and he's the only person in the planet Earth that

511
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 8: can do it, and you know, you'd say that kind

512
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 8: of stuff come in So no there's been a real

513
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 8: tightening up just in the last twenty years on the courts,

514
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 8: kind of taking control of the field of experts and

515
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 8: what's amissible or not.

516
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: Newton Yarberry may have been out on bail, but he

517
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: must have known that this trial could be difficult. The

518
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: DA met with the sheriff and went over the evidence,

519
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: which wasn't a lot, but they did have those money footprints.

520
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: It was Sheriff Hunt's job to analyze the prints and

521
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: measure them for size. His conclusion was made public. He

522
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: reported that the bare footprints were comparable in size to

523
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: those of Newton Yarbery. Although the sheriff was insistent the

524
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: footprints were still considered circumstantial evidence. There were apparently also

525
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: shoeprints near the water. The sheriff measured those prints and

526
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: they seemed to match Dorothy's shoe size, and there was

527
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: new evidence something more solid than footprints and shoeprints. An

528
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: investigator gave a statement that newton Yarberry's body showed signs

529
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: of a fil altercation. He had scratches on the right

530
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: side of his neck and on his back just below

531
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: his shoulder blades, and at the small of his back.

532
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: That same officer said Newton's feet were cut with seashells

533
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: and punctured with thorns. It's a defense attorney's job to

534
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: work in their client's best interest to protect the accused,

535
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: whether that client is innocent or guilty. My father used

536
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: to say that everyone deserves a defense. To build Newton

537
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: Yarberry's defense, his lawyer planned to use an unseemly legal tactic.

538
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: He wanted to shift the focus away from the murder

539
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: suspect by constructing a narrative that put Dorothy's personal character

540
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,959
Speaker 1: on trial. It's called victim blaming. I wanted to take

541
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: a closer look into how this method can play out

542
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: in court. Defense attorney David Shepard has been an excellent

543
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: source for presenting complex legal cons in an accessible way.

544
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: So first I wanted to make sure he had enough

545
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: information about Dorothy's case. So I filled him in, and

546
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: then we talked about how she was described in Ransi's

547
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: pass and how Newton's defense attorney could use that against her.

548
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: So her character was immediately in question. Because this is

549
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: during prohibition. Dorothy swam with young men in the channel

550
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: at night, and she drank and she smoked every once

551
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: in a while. And this wasn't, of course, what proper

552
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: ladies did in town in nineteen thirty one.

553
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 5: Texas.

554
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 8: Defence attorney's job is to try to undermine the credibility

555
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 8: of testimony. And that's a very unpleasant thing for defense attorney.

556
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: And I know that can happen with survivors of sexual assault, right,

557
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: victim blaming, and is.

558
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 8: What's most harmful and most frustrating to the women victims

559
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 8: is the questions, you know, well, how were you dressed,

560
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 8: how much did you have to drink? Weren't you being provocative?

561
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 8: Didn't you lead him on? Weren't you saying no? But

562
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 8: weren't you really implying yes? And weren't you creating a

563
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 8: situation where he almost couldn't control himself? And it is

564
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 8: disturbingly effective, and it's used all the time at the

565
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 8: investigative stage. And then if a case comes to trial,

566
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,959
Speaker 8: at the trial stage by the defensive council.

567
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: And you said, the defense will gather evidence against the

568
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: victim and.

569
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 8: Pull their social media history because kids put everything on

570
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 8: social media.

571
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: Now, I want to revisit that term victim blaming. It's

572
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: alarmingly easy to disparage a person's character using social media,

573
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: and many times it's bluntly obvious when that is someone's intent.

574
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: Judge Dimple Mahultra and I talked about the dangers of

575
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: victim blaming in a court of law. Is there a

576
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: line you think as a judge between and I'm sure

577
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: you've seen this in domestic violence court, between disparaging the

578
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: victim and trying to disclose facts that could affect the

579
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: outcome of the case.

580
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 6: Certainly, defense are entitled to use information that they have

581
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 6: that they believe is mitigating in trials to disprove the assault.

582
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 6: But I think it's when they cross the line of

583
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 6: trying to disparage and shame and use the trauma that

584
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 6: the victim has endured against her.

585
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: Judge Maulholtra says that defense attorneys sometimes cross a very

586
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: dangerous line.

587
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 6: I've seen defense lawyers imply that the victim likes the abuse,

588
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 6: or that she likes the drama, and that she's histrionic,

589
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 6: and that she invites this kind of dynamic into her home,

590
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 6: into her relationships, and Jesus culpable as he is, so

591
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 6: she's as culpable. She's the common denominator. And don't you

592
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 6: know that she filed a protective order against her ex boyfriend.

593
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 6: And she's crazy, she's on drugs, she's dramatic.

594
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, victim blaming in the criminal justice system is far

595
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: too prevalent today. Women who choose to face their assailants

596
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: aren't just at risk of being shamed in the courtroom.

597
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: It's a phenomenon that plays out too frequently in the

598
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: press as well. Back in episode one, I talked about

599
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: how living members of the Simons family seem to know

600
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: very little about Dorothy. Nancy Coppage is the daughter of

601
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: David Simon's He was one of Dorothy's two younger brothers.

602
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: When I spoke with Nancy, I wanted to share some

603
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: of the research materials I found while investigating this case.

604
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 4: What is the impression that you got kind of just

605
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 4: even reading newspapers, who Dorothy was, what kind of versions

606
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 4: she would do?

607
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 8: You have a kind of a picture in your head.

608
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 9: And who she would I have a better picture now

609
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 9: after reading some of this, because she was not spoken

610
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 9: of as you know, a person, what her personality traits were,

611
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 9: As you saw in the newspaper articles. They kept referring

612
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 9: to her as the pretty choir girl. And yet during

613
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 9: some of the proceedings talked about, Oh, she was swimming

614
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 9: with a night that was very bad.

615
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 7: Oh she's a loose woman out there. And yet I'm

616
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 7: sure she had some issues with her mom, being who

617
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 7: her mom was. But I'm so glad that you shared

618
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 7: this photo of her, because that's the closest of anything

619
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 7: that I've ever seen to a picture of her.

620
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: Nancy's comment that Dorothy must have had issues with her

621
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: mother didn't strike me as being unusual. Most mothers and

622
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: daughters have their disagreements and minor clashes at times. My

623
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: mom and I still bicker, and I'm in my forties.

624
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: And even if Dorothy did have a bit of a

625
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: rebellious streak, it didn't sound as though she had done

626
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: anything really terribly wrong. It sounds more like she was

627
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: a typical teenager who occasionally liked to have a little fun.

628
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: But as her trial approached and both sides prepared, two

629
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: very different profiles of Dorothy Simon's would emerge. Drinking and

630
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: smoking and swimming with young men might not seem like

631
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: a big deal now, but each of those was virtually

632
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: a sin in the night teen thirties. Dorothy's family would

633
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: certainly pay a big price, and their daughter's suspected killer

634
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: might just go free once again. On the next episode

635
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: of tenfold More Wicked on Exactly Right.

636
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: I remember David saying, when I grow up, I'm going

637
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: to kill that Newton Yardberry because of what he did

638
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 2: to my sister.

639
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 4: You used an interesting word, which is obsession, which is very,

640
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 4: of course common for people who are interested in true crime.

641
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: Did he talk about it a lot? I have seen

642
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: the binder. It's impressive and it's very thick.

643
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 11: No, no, I don't even know that I've seen the binder.

644
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 6: I don't think that he realized what he had done

645
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 6: until she died.

646
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 5: She was dead.

647
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 6: He just wanted to scare her.

648
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: My new book, All That Is Wicked is available for

649
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: pre order now, including the audiobook. All that Is Wicked

650
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: is based on our first season of tenfold More Wicked.

651
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: You might think you know the whole story of killer

652
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: Edward Ruloff's crimes, but there's so much more. My book

653
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