1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Just a heads up. This episode deals pretty heavily with 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: sexual assault because right now, I my question to the 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: Eastern District is how many other sexual assault pieces are 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: sitting on your docket that you refuse to bring to trial? 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Why not call a gran jury? But they don't like 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: to be asked questions, and I love to ask questions. 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget Todd 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: and this is there are No Girls on the Internet. 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: So well. On the show, we talk a lot about 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: how it's often marginalized people who make technology safer for everyone, 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: and how it comes at a huge personal cause, but 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: too often we do not hear these stories. Last year, 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: the ride share app Lift or at least a report 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: on the number of people sexually assaulted in ride shairs. Now, 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: they didn't just do this out of concern for public safety. 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: It was because of pressure generated by survivors. Survivors like 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: Allison Turkos, who was suing both Lift and the New 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: York Police Department. On October fourteen, seventeen, after a night 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: out with friends, Allison hailed a lift to get back 21 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: to her Brooklyn department when she noticed the driver was 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: taking her in the wrong direction. She thought maybe he 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: was trying to scammer out of twenty or thirty dollars. 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: She tried to hop out of the car at a 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: red light, but realized the child blocks were on, and 26 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: when the driver pulled out a gun, she realized this 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: wasn't just a scam. The lift driver brought her across 28 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: state lines from New York to New Jersey, where he 29 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: held he act gunpoint, raped her, and stood by as 30 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: two other men did too. It was the worst night 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: of her life. What was your life like before October 32 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: fourteen two out and seventeen? I always described October fourteen 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: m as the before times my best friend Morgan and I. 34 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: That's sort of how we even thinking about us, Like 35 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: I get emotional. Um, we Morgan and I always describe 36 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: it as the before times, particularly because I was with 37 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: her um October, which was the Thursday, and um, there's 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: this photo of us at this restaurant that our friend 39 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: Rebecca took in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: Morgan and I are just like radiating joy and love 41 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: and we're holding each other. Um. And usually on the 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: anniversary in October, every single year, both of us will 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: share that on social media, UM, and just really hold 44 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: space for what we refer to as the before times. UM. 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: So before October fourteen, UM, I, I'm pausing because I 46 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: want to say that I was a more joyful person, 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: not to say that I don't have the ability to 48 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: experience joy in this moment um in my life. UM. 49 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: And you can like hear my voice quivering, And I think, 50 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: just because like, UM, I think, the way that I 51 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: want to answer this is the idea that like, I'm 52 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: mourned the person that I was in October for I'm 53 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: more in for the person that I was in October seventeen, 54 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: because when a person experiences any type of violence, but 55 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: I think, particularly for those of us who experienced rape 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: and sexual assault or the spectrum of harm, UM, the 57 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: person that we were going to become ceases to exist. 58 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: And So in two seventeen, I had like incredible career aspirations. 59 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: I thought that I wanted to be an executive director 60 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: of a nonprofit. I you know, was casually dating UM 61 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: a person and was in an intimate relationship. UM. I 62 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: was having sex. I was really open to pleasure. UM. 63 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: I had a dramatically for relationship with my body. And 64 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, I was someone who really moved through the 65 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: world freely. Um. You know, I was someone who was 66 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: not consumed with lawsuits and navigating the criminal legal system. 67 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: And you know, so right before UM talking to you, 68 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: I UM was having a zoom date with one of 69 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: my best friends, Kate. And you know, every single time 70 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: that I check in with one of my friends now 71 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: so often, you know, they asked me questions like have 72 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: you talked to the FBI recently? Have you talked to 73 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: your lawyers? Have you talked to federal prosecutors? In Those 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: were not questions that anyone was asking me, UM. And 75 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: so I think my life was just so much more 76 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: care free, and I wasn't carrying the weight. Um. You know, 77 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: I was a survivor. The first time that I was 78 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: actually assaulted, I was sixteen, and the second time that 79 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: I was actually assaulted that I was eighteen. And so 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: in October, SE carried the weight of being a survivor. 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: But I was really starting to unpack that identity. And 82 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: I think it just when I think about that time 83 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: and I'm you know, working through this in therapy, it's 84 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: just I just mourn for myself because I think about, like, 85 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: what would it look like if this hadn't happened, and 86 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: what would it look What would my friendships look like, 87 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: what would my potential romantic relationships look like? What would 88 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: my relationship with my family look like? Because my relationship 89 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: with my family has been incredibly impacted by this, my 90 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: relationships with my friends has been impacted. UM, And so 91 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: I think it's just the idea of UM. I really 92 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: just try to practice so much compassion and grace and 93 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: patience for myself UM, and to always hold space for 94 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: the fact that, UM, I was a different person, but 95 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: where I got into a car UM in October and 96 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: something incredibly traumatic happened, and it's okay because that's what 97 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: violence does to a person. UM. And the way that 98 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: I really talk about it often or think about it 99 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: often is that like when a bomb goes off inside 100 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: of a room, UM, those walls fall back, and you know, 101 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: a house might crumble, or you know, the structure that 102 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: scaffolding might be left. UM. But when a person's body 103 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: experiences violence, or particularly when what happened to me, you know, 104 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: I have no physical scars. My body is still intact. 105 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: And UM, it's really hard because sometimes you might look 106 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: at me and you might think she's fine. Or you know, 107 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: I might meet people today and they will have no 108 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: idea unless they google me or I decided to disclose 109 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: what happened to me. They would just think that I 110 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: am a quote unquote like normal thirty three year old 111 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: woman who was living her best life. And I just 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: think that unless you know, someone knows my story. You know, 113 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: the amount of violence that I have experienced in my life, 114 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: particularly in the year of seventeen um like how much 115 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: violence can a body withstand? And I think myself and 116 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: many other survivors and victims can say, you know, sometimes 117 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: our bodies no no bounds because we are able. You know, 118 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: It's why we identify as survivors. If you're in a 119 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: room with five women, statistically one of them has survived 120 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: that attempted sexual assault or right, there are so many 121 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: of us, some who speak openly about their experiences and 122 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: others who don't. That was something that really helped put 123 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: things in sharper focus for me. How many of us 124 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: are out there, and that you would just think this 125 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: is someone living their best life. It is a carefree, 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: joyful human in the world. But we're all carrying these 127 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: stories with us. It's so many of us. And I 128 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: think when you really contend with the scope of how 129 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: many people are out there that our survivors and that 130 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: you would never know, it makes me, on the one hand, enraged, 131 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: like how much can a body take? But on the 132 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: other hand, I might we are an army. It's all 133 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: it's all of us. It's so many of us. We 134 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: are an army. In two thousand and eleven, I helped 135 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: to organize uh the Slot Walk in New York City, 136 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: and I organized that as an ally. I didn't identify 137 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: as a survivor, and I was doing a lot of 138 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: work to dismantle rape culture, but was so distanced from 139 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: the sexual assault that I had experienced in high school 140 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: and the sexual assault that I experienced four years earlier 141 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 1: in college, and was like marching in the streets screaming 142 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: about you know that no matter what you wear, it 143 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: does not mean that you should. You know that you 144 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: are welcoming sexual assault, etcetera. And that if you decide 145 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: to report to the police, police should no matter what. 146 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: But we're treating you with dignity and respect and trust. 147 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until like early fall of that I 148 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: really started to with the help of an incredible therapist. 149 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: UM realize that, like deeply, deeply down in the depth 150 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: of my brain and my body, because as we all know, 151 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: the body keeps score. UM that I had experienced sexual 152 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: assault earlier in my life and had just um, you know, 153 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: was sort of like, this is over here and I'm 154 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: not going to touch it. And the thing that I 155 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: think about is that, UM, you know, survivors look like 156 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: your best friend, they look like your mom, they look 157 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: like your brother, UM, you know, your boss, UM, you 158 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: know the elected officials sitting next to you. And the 159 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: thing that I think about so often is that, UM, 160 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, survivors never owe you a disclosure. And I 161 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,479 Speaker 1: think that in a lot of the organizing work I do. UM, 162 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: this is really important to me to always remember, is 163 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: that we don't owe you our stories. And UM that 164 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, given the rates of sexual abuse in this 165 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: country and the world globally, UM, and how under reported 166 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: we know that sexual assault and rape is UM that 167 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: you very often should assume that you are holding space 168 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: and community with a survivor. And so when you you know, 169 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: you could be at dinner party, you could be at 170 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: you know, your child's school, at a school board meeting 171 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: and talking about you know, everything from dress code to 172 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, like what does sexual assault UM reporting look 173 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: like too? Even in your workplace and talking about workplace harassment. 174 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: And you should always be operating under the assumption that 175 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: there is a survivor sitting next to you, or that 176 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: the person in power is a survivor UM, no matter 177 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: in my opinion, how they might be, the words that 178 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: they might be choosing to use, because sometimes, as we know, 179 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: trauma responses can get the best of us. UM. But 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: just the idea that UM, just because someone has never 181 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: told you verbatim that they are a survivor of sexual 182 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: assault or harassment or rape UM, does not mean that 183 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: that is an experience that they have had. I am 184 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: here today not because I want to be I am terrified. 185 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: I am here because I believe it is my civic 186 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett 187 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,599 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh and I were in high school. During the confirmation 188 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: hearing of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanall back in, Christine 189 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: Blaisieford testified that Kavanall raped her when they were in 190 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: high school. Her story was powerful, and she talked about 191 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: the personal cost of both her and her family and 192 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: speaking up about it. But in the end, Kavanaugh was 193 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: still confirmed. We live in a world that asks survivors 194 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: to recount the stories of their trauma and their pain 195 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: over and over and over again to get justice, whatever 196 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: that even looks like. After Allison was raped, she reported 197 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: what happened to the police and to lift something that 198 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: I feel like we tell survivors is that if you 199 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: tell your story again and again and again in the 200 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: right ways to the right people, that is the way 201 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: that you can sort of get justice. And we sort 202 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: of say that with kind of a I guess, callous 203 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: disregard for the fact that what we're really telling people 204 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: is like, relive your trauma over and over and over again, 205 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: and that's that is a pathway to get justice. In 206 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: your case, you have done that. I can I can 207 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: only imagine what if it's been like to relive this painful, 208 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: traumatic experience over and over again but then not get 209 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 1: any kind of satisfying outcome and not get any kind 210 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: of even a even a like even just to reply 211 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: back to an email. What has that been like for you? 212 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: Excellent question, um. I think one of the things that 213 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: I applaud like deep reflection every single time that I 214 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: think about you know, why I chose to report in 215 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: the reporting process. Um. You know, in high school, I 216 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell my parents, I didn't 217 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: tell friends. In college, same thing. My rapist in college 218 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: was on an athletic team, and so I was sort 219 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: of operating under the assumption that because he was in 220 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: a position of power on campus and he would be 221 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: more likely to be believed. And so then in UM, 222 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: because I had had some significant memory loss, and UM, 223 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, I thought UM, and I sort of emphasized 224 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: that because I was really there was an assumption that 225 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: you know, because this was a lift driver, and because 226 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: I had a copy of the map, and because I 227 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: had a photo of him, and because I had his 228 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: Taxing Limo UM Taxing Limo Commission license number, because in 229 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: New York City, in order to drive a ride share 230 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: uber or lift, you have to be licensed with the 231 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: tlc UM Commission, and UM, I had a license plate number. 232 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: And so because I had all of that information and 233 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: a map of our ride that I was literally handing 234 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: the New York Police Departments Special Victims Division. UM, like 235 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: an opening close case is an assumption that I was 236 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: making and you know, when I made the difficult decision 237 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: to have a rape kit done, which I had never 238 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: done before. Um, you know, and and we later found 239 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: out that there was DNA and my kit. Um. Once again, 240 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: I was sort of operating under the assumption that, like, 241 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: this was going to be easy. I'm not a police officer, 242 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: nor have I ever you know, investigated a case. But um, 243 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: I just thought that this would be relatively easy. Um. 244 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: And then you know, less than a month in, what 245 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: I started to realize was that it was going to 246 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: become my second full time job to hold this particular 247 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: detective her name was Maria Kenyons out of the New 248 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: York UM Brooklyn Special Victims Division, to respond to an email, 249 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: to return a phone call, um to you know, like 250 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: should I And then it became one of those moments 251 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: of you know, like if I text her, is that 252 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: me bothering her? And so then should I not text her? 253 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: Should I only email her? If I call her too 254 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: many times? Is she going to get annoyed with me? 255 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: And the idea of like the like brain games that 256 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: as a rape victim, mere weeks after my sexual assault 257 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: and kidnapping, that I had to play in order to 258 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: like get my detective to like me enough to have 259 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: to respond to me is just horrifying. And then as 260 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: weeks went on and UM, she would do things like 261 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: withhold certain infort like we got the results of my 262 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: read kit in December of seen, and she would tell 263 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: me certain information but not tell me all information, and 264 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: would withhold certain information. And then I would think, you know, like, okay, 265 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: so I need to act a certain way in order 266 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: for her to tell me certain things. And UM in 267 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: UM March of we had a meeting on March eighteenth, 268 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: and that was when she had disclosed UM the majority 269 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: of my rape kit results, which had disclosed that there 270 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: were multiple seamen samples found in my rape kit, which 271 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: had then UM alerted us to the fact that it 272 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: was a gang rape and that there were multiple perpetrators 273 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: who had assaulted me that night. And I started to cry. 274 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: I started to show an emotion because I did not 275 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: at that point in time remember the assault, but I 276 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: was getting information and I did not have a memory 277 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: to attach to that UM to that gang rape. And 278 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: the Special Victims detective said, this is clearly making you upset. 279 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: It seems like I shouldn't tell you things about your 280 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: case because I don't want to upset you. And so 281 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: then what that signified to me as a victim was 282 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: never show emotion to law enforcement, because if you show 283 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: emotion to law enforcement, then they're going to withhold vital 284 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: information to you about your case. And so now four 285 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: years later, I am incredible. I have a very difficult 286 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: time showing emotion. I'm like still working on this in 287 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: therapy and still working this with my friends, because if 288 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: I show emotion, then I think that people either won't 289 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: believe me. I think that people will find me to 290 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: be difficult, and I think that people will never give 291 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: me information that I believe is my right. Let's take 292 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: a quick break at our back. In two thousand six, 293 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: sexual assault survivor Toronto Burke started the me Too movement 294 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: to lift up survivors of sexual assault, and on October fifteen, 295 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: just a day after Allison's attack, actor Elissa Milano posted 296 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: on Twitter, if all the women who have been sexually 297 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: harassed and assaulted wrote me too as a status, we 298 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: might give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem. 299 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: This call to action took off, with millions of people 300 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: using the hashtag to share their stories online and led 301 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: to the arrests of high profile abusers like Harvey Weinstein. 302 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: And it was against this backdrop at the complexities of 303 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: reporting sexual assault played out in real time for Allison. 304 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: In April of twenty eighteen, the New York Special the 305 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: New York Police Department Special Victims Division, and along with 306 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: UM a couple of advocates in the city had UM 307 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: an open forum in UM a Williamsburg hotel. I remember 308 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: it was the Wife Hotel and where it was, and 309 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: it was on a Thursday night and I had it 310 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: was my last session. I was in a rape survivor 311 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: group therapy UM in a uh yeah, a survivor support group. 312 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: And I literally jumped in a cab from the Financial 313 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: District and took it to Williamsburg and walked in like 314 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: an hour late to this forum. And Paul Saracino, who 315 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: was the Deputy Inspector of Special Victims at the time, 316 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: was stood up and said to the group and basically said, 317 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, like, the New York Special Victims Division is here, 318 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: we are here for rape victims. We have all the 319 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: resources we want you to report. UM. The thing I 320 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: think that it's important is that in October seen the 321 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein news had just broke. And so my story 322 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: is parallel to the research of Toronto Brokes Me to movement, 323 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: And so like the day that I was getting a 324 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: rape kit done October sixteenth, seventeen, is when Alissa Milano 325 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: was literally using the hashtag Toronto brokes hashtag me Too. 326 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: And so, as this is happening and the world is 327 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: breaking open with people's stories, I'm living that in real time. 328 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: And so in April of seventeen, when this is happening, UM, 329 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: Paul Saracino is on a mic and is saying like 330 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: the New York Police Department is ready, like come, we 331 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: are ready for you. And I they were open, the 332 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: public was allowed to ask questions. And I wrote anonymously 333 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: on a index card and I submitted it and UM 334 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: Emily Gallagher, who at that point in time was running 335 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: the Green Point Um sexual assault advocacy organization. She's now 336 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: an elected official. Thank you. UM Emily Gallagher read it 337 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: and she said, UM, this is from an audience member, 338 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: and she read a verbatim and the card said, UM, 339 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: I have an open and active case with Brooklyn Special Victims, 340 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: and I don't understand how you can stand in front 341 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: of us and tell us that you are ready, you know, 342 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: to meet us with resources when I can't even get 343 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: my detective to answer a fucking email or answer my 344 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: phone call. And the audience like was silent for maybe 345 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: like two seconds, and then just like you could hear 346 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: them all take a deep breath, and then they just 347 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: started to clap. And Paul Serracino, who's you know, a 348 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: deputy inspector with in your police department, didn't know what 349 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: to do and basically was like, come find me afterwards. 350 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you. And I was like, okay, 351 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: this is then step of me doing another job. And 352 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: I approached him and I said, I'm not ready to 353 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: tell you my name. I'm not ready to tell you 354 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: my detectives name. Like I think I know what this 355 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: is going to look like, but I'm not there yet. 356 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: And he gave me his card, and then two days 357 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: later I emailed him and I was on the phone 358 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: with him for forty five minutes, and I filed an 359 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: official complaint against Maria kenyonees and then two days later 360 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: my case was transferred and then I filed a complaint 361 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: with the Civilian Complaint Review Board and then they came 362 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: back and said that they were going to put a 363 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: more efficient detective on my case, which at that point 364 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: in time they already had. I did not find that 365 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: to be efficient, and as if there had been, because 366 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: I mean, and this is incredibly long winded, but like 367 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: Maria kenyones had lost video evidence. So like a part 368 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: of my case is that I was kidnapped from Brooklyn 369 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: to New Jersey. That involves going through the Holland Tunnel. 370 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: New York City is a police state. There is surveillance everywhere, right, 371 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: and so like there's video evidence of me in the 372 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: Hall Tunnel, in the back of this man's car, there 373 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: is police evidence, or there's video evidence of me. And 374 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: in Liberty State Park, which is a New Jersey state park, 375 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: there's video evidence of me there. Maria Kenyon neglected to 376 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: do her job and lost video evidence and a slew 377 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: of other things that you know, we're done. And so 378 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: I filed the Civilian Complaint Review Board UM a complaint 379 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: with the CCRB and did not feel that they had 380 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: done a satisfactory investigation. I then elevated that to the 381 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: I A B. The Internal Affairs UM Bureau. I did 382 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: not feel that they had done a satisfactory investigation, again 383 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: because how can police hold themselves accountable? And then I 384 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: went to the Department Investigation and I filed a complaint 385 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: against her with the d o I. And then, finally, 386 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: once I felt that d o I had not done 387 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: a proper investigation, because again, how can police hold themselves 388 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: accountable or investigate themselves? I then made the decision to 389 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: file a lawsuit against m ip D. So why did 390 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: you file that lawsuit? The reason why I wanted to 391 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: file that lawsuit was because I am a white, sis 392 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: queer but straight passing woman. And when I stand up 393 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: in a room and say to Paul Saracino, or when 394 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 1: I stand up anywhere at a press conference, on this 395 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: podcast anywhere and I say fuck cops, my anger is 396 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: going to be valid because when I say those things, 397 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: I no one is going to take into account the 398 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: color of my skin. I'm not going to fall into 399 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: an angry black woman trope the way that I was 400 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: treated when I reported. I carry all of the privileges 401 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: in the world and the amount of time and energy 402 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: and mental capacity and emotional capacity that it took for 403 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: me to fight and to hold the NYPD accountable it's 404 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: not possible for a single mother with two children who's 405 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: working multiple jobs. It's not possible for someone who was 406 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: a sex worker and was sexually assaulted by a client 407 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: of theirs. And I'm not gonna say that it's not 408 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: possible that they don't have the capacity to do that. 409 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: But like the system is meant is not meant for 410 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: us as survivors. The system is meant to exhaust us 411 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: out of existence. And I decided to literally say, go 412 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: funk yourself and watch me, like, try me please, because 413 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: at every single turn, whatever you want to do, pile 414 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: it the funk on, because there are so many people 415 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: behind me who do not have the support system, because 416 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: my friends are amazing who do not have the time. 417 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: At that point in time, I was gainfully employed and 418 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: I had a flexible work schedule, so I could try 419 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: to file a foil for what's called my d D five, 420 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: which is your case file, and I could figure out 421 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: how to navigate the system, which is literally impossible. And 422 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: the final option was like, fuck it, I'm gonna file 423 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: a lawsuit. I want to see every single thing, every 424 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: single decision making process, how you decided to put her 425 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: in a position of power, all of these things show me, 426 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: and so I filed the lawsuit on January twenty nineteen 427 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: because I was like, we deserve better. And if this 428 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: is how you're treating a college educated white woman, how 429 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: the funk are you treating marginalized communities, folks who don't 430 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: speak English, undocumented folks, sex workers, trans woman of color. 431 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: So I'm going to spend my privilege and do everything 432 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: that I can, because while I do not believe for 433 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: everyone that reporting to the police or involving police in 434 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: your you know, in your sexual assault experience, might not 435 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: be the best option, and I understand that, but for 436 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: some people, going to the police is going to be 437 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: uh something that they want. And if that's what a 438 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,479 Speaker 1: survivor wants to do, I want them to be treated 439 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: with nothing but dignity and respect and trust. I want 440 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: them to walk into a police precinct and to be believed. 441 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: The higher process has been dehumanizing and disrespectful. For instance, 442 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: after her assault, Lift even charged Allison for the ride. 443 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: In an open letter to the federal prosecutors who declined 444 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: to take up her case, Alison recounts that they asked 445 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: questions like why was she comfortable recounting her gang rape, 446 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: and they asked what quote sexual positions. She recalled. There 447 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: are no sexual positions in a rape, she wrote. It's 448 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: an assault. It is brutal, it is penetration by force. 449 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: It is not sex. Allison continues to fight. She's sitting 450 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: left and the New York Police Department, and she isn't 451 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: just fighting for herself. She's fighting to make systemic changes 452 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: so people who are more marginalized than she is can 453 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: expect better. With everything they put you through, how do 454 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: you find the strength to keep fighting? The question that 455 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: I honestly like ask myself like every single day or 456 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: multiple times a day, is like who do these broken 457 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: systems benefit? Um? Because you know, like how many times 458 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: I have been in the streets in front of the 459 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, in front of you know, the Supreme Court 460 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: in d C. Or in Brooklyn or anywhere, and you know, 461 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 1: UM during a lot of like m IPD protests, especially 462 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: like last summer during UM a lot of the BLM protests, 463 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, is the question always like who do you 464 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: protect and who do you serve? And like that's a 465 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: question that I literally have like a post it on 466 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: my desk and and and it just says that because 467 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: they the system and I literally mean, like any system 468 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: will always tell you that they have you know, um, 469 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, like we serve X community. You know, we're 470 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: here to protect X, we are here to etcetera. And um, 471 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: that is bullshit. And they are always here. I think 472 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: about it sort of like an HR in any you know, 473 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: company or office space. It's like a R is not 474 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: there to protect the workers. HR is there to protect 475 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: the company, and the police are there to protect themselves. 476 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: Police means are some of the most powerful unions in 477 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: the country and they are there to protect themselves. And 478 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: for me, it's just the idea of like it took 479 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: me a while to get here, but it was when 480 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: I changed my thinking from being an individual and thinking 481 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 1: about like this happened to me, this I am an individual, 482 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: this happened to me, and flipping that and thinking about 483 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: this in terms of systems and thinking about the fact 484 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: and I again I acknowledge that like there are community organizers, 485 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: there are like black folks and organizers who have been 486 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: doing this and thinking about this for years, and a 487 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: lot of that, like systemic work came from like folks 488 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: of color, black folks in my life who had been 489 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: doing that for years, especially like a lot of my 490 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: work comes I like started in the abortion rights world, 491 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: and so in the idea of like, you know, I 492 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: can't think of like where I learned this, but the 493 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: term of like a right doesn't mean if you can 494 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: access it. Your right to abortion does not mean jack 495 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: ship if you cannot access an abortion, and so like 496 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: that was one of the first times that I ever 497 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: thought about something systemically, and so then it was just 498 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: the idea of like when it came to me attempting 499 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: to do this work and thinking about Okay, so like 500 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: I walked in to a hospital, I guess it really 501 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: started like when I contacted LIFT that later that night, 502 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: and you know the only thing that I could do 503 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: was like open an app and like file a written complaint. 504 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: And then like a couple of minutes later, I was like, Wow, 505 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: I've had vaginal bleeding and discomfort and I'm looking at 506 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: this map and I was taking to an entirely different 507 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: borrow and state. So none of those things sit right 508 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: with me. So I'm going to call their like internal 509 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: nine one one customer service, and this person on the 510 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: phone is just like, Okay, well, we will refund you 511 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: like nine dollars in eleven cents or whatever, but we're 512 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: still going to charge you twelve dollars and eighty one 513 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: cents because that's what the ride from Crown Heights to 514 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: Williamsburg would have been. That was the reginal right Crown Hends, 515 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: Brooklyn Polians broke Brooklyn. And in that moment, I was like, Okay, sure, 516 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: because I guess in reality, like I did get picked 517 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: up in Crown Heights and I did go home to Williamsburg, 518 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 1: but there was just like, you know, eighty minutes of 519 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, ride in between and twenty two minutes of 520 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: a stop in a park. But shore Lift, you go 521 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: ahead and you make that profit. Got it, sure? And 522 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: then you know, on Monday morning, on the sixteenth of October, 523 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: when I walked into a hospital and you know, had 524 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: a rape kit done and you know, talked to four 525 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: beat cops and then had to carry my own rape 526 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: kit because the cop forgot it on the chair in 527 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: the room and I grabbed it, and then had a 528 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: police escort outside of the hospital. Walking out of the 529 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: hospital with my best friend Morgan, and we're standing outside 530 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: of a marked police car and we're going and I 531 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: get put into a marked police car as if we 532 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: are criminals, and then my rape kitch sits shotgun while 533 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: we ride to the Brooklyn Um Special Victims Division and 534 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: Prospect Heights and then talk to this detective and it's just, 535 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, when I think about it now, I just 536 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,239 Speaker 1: think of, like, it's been very sad when I say this, 537 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,239 Speaker 1: but like this happens on a daily basis. There's so 538 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: many victims, this happens to Like I was just looking 539 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: at the root at the crime stats that UM New 540 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: York City put out, and I think it's, uh one 541 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: two one rapes have been reported in New York City 542 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: so far this year, and so that's one thou people 543 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: who have reported to the n ip D so far. 544 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: And so then when you think about it in terms 545 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: like that, and like a couple of weeks later, I 546 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: got a first I got a bill for my rape kit. 547 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: And so it's just the idea of like the system 548 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: is not seeing you as a person. They don't see 549 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: you as a three dimensional human. They don't see you 550 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: as someone who like has to hey your bills, has 551 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: to raise your kids, has to exist in the world. 552 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: They it's just like churning you through and So when 553 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: I think about it in terms of the idea of 554 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: like I am not alone. This happened to me, but 555 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: I am not alone, and in order for there to 556 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: be like true change, it doesn't matter that like I 557 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: called my credit card company and then they had a 558 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: contact lift and like get that refund and I had 559 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: a fight with Eric Schneiderman, who at that point time 560 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: was the Attorney General and like a garbage human and 561 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: a serial perpetrator of of abuse to get refunded from 562 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: my rape kit. But like if I bang on that 563 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: door and like make my voice heard and like, do 564 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: not shut the funk up. The next time that someone 565 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: in billing sees this code, whatever the code is x 566 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: x x y y Y, whatever it is for a 567 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: rape kit, it's going to be flagged because they're gonna 568 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: be like the motherfucking ass whole Alison Turker, like I, yep, okay, 569 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: we don't need another person coming here and banging on 570 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: our door. Okay, nope, okay, flag. No one's ever getting 571 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: built for a rape kit from New York Presbyterian ever again, 572 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: got it? And I think for me, it's like that's 573 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: where my strength comes from, is the idea of like 574 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: I have now. I just think that like the system 575 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: is fucked beyond reason and if we can just start 576 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: to make like what I refer to as like relentless incrementalism, 577 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: Like I want to bowldoze everything, I want to burn 578 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: it to the ground, but like it's not always it's 579 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: not always possible. UM. So I think it's that like 580 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: really reframing my mind to think about it in terms 581 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: of systems. And then I think the other thing is 582 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: like I have an incredible I like a cry thinking 583 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: about it. I have an incredible, incredible group of friends. 584 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: UM and uh, like literally just talking about it makes me, um, 585 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: does it make me sad? I just Um, I would 586 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: not be able to do this work UM without a 587 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: community that I have. UM. My best friend Morgan was 588 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: with me the day that I reported and held my 589 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: hand while I had a kid done UM, and our 590 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: relationship has really um struggled and fractured at points, UM, 591 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: but we have come back together and are even stronger now, 592 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: which I think is UM like radical honesty and transparency 593 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: really got us there. And just the idea that like 594 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: trauma is hard and what it does to people is hard. 595 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: And I went through a phase that I call like 596 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: my trauma monster phase where I was not kind to 597 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: myself into my community. UM, and my community really practiced 598 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: a lot of grace and compassion and patience with me. 599 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: UM and friends who just like understand that it is 600 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: it is impossible. It's impossible to to take on the 601 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: largest police force in the country. Sometimes it is impossible 602 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: to take on a billion dollar tech company. UM, like 603 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: Lift hired private investigators and who like stood outside my 604 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: apartment and like would photograph me. And that's hard, you know, 605 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: Like it's impossible to be told by the FBI to 606 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: grow out your hair because you will be more believable 607 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: if and when your case goes to trial. And that's hard. UM. 608 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: But my friends are just so patient and so supportive. UM. 609 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: And so that's another place that I really get my 610 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: strength from. I'm so glad you have this community of 611 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: supportive people to pour into you and lift you up. 612 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: God knows you deserve it, and I'm I'm so happy 613 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: that you have that. My heart goes out to folks 614 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: who don't feel like they have that, but my god, 615 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you do. Yeah. And UM, to 616 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: piggyback off of that, it's one of the reasons why 617 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: I like, if I see someone on Twitter who shares 618 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: their story, I will DM them immediately. I don't know them, 619 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: they are a stranger, but because I am so like 620 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: truly so grateful. I love the term pouring into UM 621 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: because I am so grateful to have that community and 622 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: I know that I would not be where I am 623 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: today without it. I if I see folks who are 624 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: sharing their story publicly or like alluding to sharing their 625 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: sharing their story, or if people in my community, like 626 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: I will get a text from you know, friends or 627 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: mutual friends and they'll say, hey, like, I know this 628 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: person Jane Doe and she is experiencing sexual harassment, or 629 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: like she's going to report and she's about to walk 630 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: into a police station and she doesn't know what to 631 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: do UM. And so now you know, I am always 632 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: wanting to pay it forward because I cannot fathom what 633 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: it would be like to do this alone, to report alone, 634 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: to be a plaintiff and a lawsuit alone, to tell 635 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: friends and family like to just to have to like 636 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: navigate anything and to not have support. And so it's 637 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I'm like very open and 638 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: I say, like my d ms are open there, you know, 639 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: on my website they're as like a contact me page 640 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: and like I will respond and just anything I will 641 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,399 Speaker 1: dump on the phone with you. We will can get 642 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: in a zoom. Um, you know, anything that I can do, 643 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: because I truly, truly, truly would never want someone to 644 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: feel alone, and being a survivor of sexual assault can 645 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: feel so lonely and so isolating. More after a quick break, 646 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: let's get right back into it. As of right now, 647 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: Beteral attorneys have not taken up Allison's case and no 648 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: charges have been filed against anyone for what happened to her, 649 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: and she believes it has a lot to do with 650 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: being a quote difficult victim. So to this day, the 651 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: state's attorney that they have not they have just declined 652 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: to take up your case. Have they given you any 653 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: kind of clear reasoning why that is no? And so um, 654 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: it's uh not even the state's attorney. It's a it's 655 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: a federal point because I mean it's again things that 656 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,439 Speaker 1: I only am slowly starting to learn. Um, because when 657 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: you connect someone across the lines, it becomes an automatic 658 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: federal offense. And so for um, my case was originally 659 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: with the Southern District of New York. They declined to prosecute. 660 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: It was then moved to the Eastern District of New York, 661 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: which is where it's currently sitting. UM and federal prosecutors. UM. 662 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: It's been with federal prosecutors for over two years now. 663 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: And UM, I think they have not given me a 664 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: direct answer and they're sort of talking. Point in line 665 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: item is that you know they are quote actively investigating it. UM. 666 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: I don't know what more you need to actively investigate. UM. 667 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: And I think for me, UM, the way that I 668 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 1: see it is that you know, I am, in their 669 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: mind a quote unquote difficult victim. UM. I speak really 670 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: openly about the perfectctive narrative. I speak really openly in 671 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: case some point when I'm doing today, like I speak 672 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: really openly about what it's like to navigate the system. 673 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: I speak really openly about, you know, UM, misconduct by 674 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: the New York Police Department. UM, and I speak about, 675 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: you know, my struggles of you know, what does justice 676 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: look like? Do I want is my you know, quote 677 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: unquote desired outcome of reporting, is my perpetrators being in prison? UM? 678 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, can you be a you know, prison abolitionist? 679 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: Can you do you know, transformative and restorative justice work 680 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: and also be a victim and a witness in a 681 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: federal crime. Can can you hold all of those hard 682 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: things and all of those truths at once? And I think, Um, 683 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: I also am someone who sort of like laughs in 684 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,439 Speaker 1: the face of power. Um, it's a privilege that I hold. 685 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: But I'm like, great, your federal prosecutor. I don't know 686 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: why you think that makes you better than me. Um. 687 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: Federal prosecutors don't really like that. UM. Asked also asked 688 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: me how many funks I give? And I think that 689 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: they are used to victims who will sit across the 690 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 1: table from them and being like, I'm so grateful to you, 691 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much, whereas I will sit across the 692 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,959 Speaker 1: table from them and be like, you're doing your job. 693 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: No one applauds for me when I do my job, um, 694 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: And I think it's the idea of like, I believe 695 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: and envision and work towards a world where shoutout Sabrina Hearsisa. 696 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: Survivors are leaders. Our survivorship is what makes us leaders. 697 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: And we are not charity cases. We are not numbers 698 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: for your end of your report, like we are the 699 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: people at the center of everything, including if we decide 700 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: to file criminal charges, like we are the ones who 701 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,359 Speaker 1: get to decide things. Fine, the Constitution is a thing, 702 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: I get it, like it's important, but like it was 703 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: founded on white supremacy and we should just abolish that 704 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: ship right now. And so to me, it's just the 705 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: idea of like, federal prosecutors should be open and honest 706 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: and transparent and not gate keep information about our cases 707 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: from us. We should not be like wandering around our 708 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 1: apartments and wondering, like what's the status of my case? 709 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: Who are the detectives on my case? What is the 710 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: statute of limitations and what is it going to run out? 711 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: Like I wonder like am I going to have to 712 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: write a victim impact statement one day? What is the 713 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: likelihood of me going to trial? Like all of these 714 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: questions survivors should be empowered with because we are, most often, 715 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: particularly in sexual fault, we are the only victims and 716 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: witnesses to the crime, and yet we are treated and 717 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: diminished so deeply within the system that by the end 718 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: of it, we're like, funk, this s norms. I don't 719 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: want to do anything, And I think federal prosecutors are 720 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: really expecting me one day to contact them and to 721 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: be like I've had enough. I'm too impatient. I can't wait. 722 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: We're like every single three months, I'm going to email 723 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 1: them and be like, Hey, what's up? What are you doing? 724 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: When to jump on the phone, when tell me what's happening? 725 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: I don't you know, Like, are you, like, what are 726 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: the key performance indicators of being a federal prosecutor? Because 727 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: right now, I my question to the Eastern District is 728 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: how many other sexual assault cases are sitting on your 729 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: docket that you refuse to bring to trial? Why not 730 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: call a gran jury? But they don't like to be 731 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: asked questions And I love to ask questions. I Mean, 732 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: that's something else that I am so taken by in 733 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: terms of your story, is how many different systems you 734 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: are asking. You are asking the hard questions of hospital systems, 735 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: the NYPD, UM you know list, like you're you're actively 736 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: suing lift right now, Like what is it feel like 737 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: to be hammering to get any kind of accountability from 738 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: all of these different, very powerful, very politically connected, very savvy, 739 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: very muneied systems all at once as one person. Yeah, 740 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: that's an incredible question. And I appreciate you asking it. UM. 741 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: I think it's the question that I just always want 742 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: to ask, is like what is power? Who has it? 743 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 1: What is hard power? What is soft power? UM? I'm 744 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: always interrogating, like capitalism, let's look into it, um, you know, 745 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: And I think I really love to ask like generative questions. 746 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: And so the idea of asking, you know, folks at 747 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 1: Lift and UM, you know, particularly the like folks on 748 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: the board at LIFT. Case in point, Valerie Jarrett came 749 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: from the Obama White House really invested and I put 750 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: your quotes invested And I'm not questioning her morals, but 751 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: like really invested in um, you know, work around women 752 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: and girls and gender based violence. Sits on the board 753 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: of Lift has remained silent for years as they have 754 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: come under fire and as we have all filed lawsuits. UM. 755 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: And for me, it's just the idea of like, can 756 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: you help me understand what's happening on the inside. Can 757 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: you help me understand like how you can hold these 758 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: many truths at once? And I think it's the idea 759 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: of I'm you know, Oftentimes people will say, you know, 760 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: like Alison turcos Is, you know, she's critiquing or she's 761 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: bulldozing or she just wants to like burn everything to 762 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 1: the ground. And the thing is like Lift has the 763 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: opportunity to do incredible work, and they are you know, 764 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: people use Lift to get to and from, you know, 765 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: like I'm sure that like people on their way to 766 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: have babies are just like ordering the lift and getting 767 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: to you know, the hospital there, you know, taking um lift, 768 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, to have their abortions. They're taking lift, you know, 769 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: They're I'm not trying to abolish Lift by any way, 770 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: shape or form. I'm just wanting to ensure that when 771 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: you get into a lift that people on both sides, 772 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: both like the workers and the drivers, are you know, 773 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,839 Speaker 1: have access to a livable wage and benefits. And so 774 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: like that's something that I'm trying to cognizantly be really 775 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: thoughtful about. And also that if and when someone reports 776 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,320 Speaker 1: a sexual assault to Lift, how are they being readd 777 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: Because when I reported mine, and my last communication with 778 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: Lift was I'm thinking about filing a police report. What 779 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: does this look like in collaboration with your company? And 780 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: I sent that on Sunday, October fift around seven pm 781 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: my time, and Lift ghosted me, and I was like, Hey, dude, 782 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: what do I do? Like, do you want to follow 783 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,400 Speaker 1: this report? How do I do this? Let's work together. 784 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: At that point in my life, I was like, let's 785 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: work together this billion dollar tech company the police. Again. 786 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: I self growth a lot since then, and LIFT could 787 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 1: not fucking respond and refuse to respond because they're like, 788 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: we're not going to do this, but yet now publicly 789 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,760 Speaker 1: they're like, we will always, you know, work with law enforcement. 790 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: We're going to do great things. And I think it's 791 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: just the idea that I'm not Again, this comes from 792 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: an incredible place of privilege to say this. I'm not 793 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,359 Speaker 1: afraid because what do I have to lose? Like what 794 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: is LIFT gonna do to me? Like do you want 795 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,760 Speaker 1: to take my life savings? Great, it's not that much 796 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,359 Speaker 1: or really anything, Like do you want to take like 797 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: my dignity? There's not Like I've been sexually assaulted three 798 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: times and the most recent one was a gang, right, 799 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: Like what dignity do you think that I have? And 800 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: it's just the idea of like what I don't have 801 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: anything left to give you because when in my opinion, 802 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak from an I space, I don't want 803 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: to generalize, like as a victim of sexual assault, as 804 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: a victim of an aggravated kidnapping, of kidnapping a gun point, 805 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: like the things that my perpetrators have said to me, 806 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: the things that people who have perpetrated violence against me, 807 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: the things that people on the internet. Again don't read 808 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: the comments, but like will come in and say, like, 809 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: you made this up, this isn't true. You're trying to 810 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,320 Speaker 1: get attention. Whatever. If leadership at left or board members 811 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,399 Speaker 1: or shareholders or anyone want to push back against me, 812 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: my question is like who do you protect and who 813 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: do you serve? What do you want your legacy to be? 814 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: Because I would think that you would want your legacy 815 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,200 Speaker 1: to be at an organization like we helped people get 816 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: from place A to place B. We're helping transportation to 817 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: be safer. We're helping to do these things and not 818 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 1: during my time on the board, we were sued by 819 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:30,839 Speaker 1: thousands of women more after a quick break, let's get 820 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:36,280 Speaker 1: right back into it. After an investigative piece about sexual 821 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: assaut by drivers pointed out that there was no publicly 822 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: available data about assaults and rideshairs Lift and Uber both 823 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: promised to deliver our report on those numbers now Uber 824 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: actually did release their report the following year, Lift didn't, 825 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 1: and by the time they finally published their report showing 826 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: that four thousand, one d and fifty eight reports of 827 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: sexual assault by drivers and writers between the beginning of 828 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: twenties seventeen and the end of twenty nine seen, it 829 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: was a full three years after the deadline land set. 830 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: I hate that we live in this world where you, 831 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 1: as someone who has already been through so much, has 832 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: been harmed, is doing this kind of unpaid, incredibly heavy, 833 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: thankless work to to make Lift a safer platform for everybody, 834 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: kind of like against their will. Like you're doing this 835 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: work of like dragging them, kicking and screaming to making 836 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: their platforms safer, and they're a billion dollar tech company 837 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: and you're just you, and I just it just it's 838 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: I almost kind of can't wrap my head around. But 839 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: and seeing the seeing Lifts posture in public, like when 840 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,839 Speaker 1: they finally released their you know, very late report on 841 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: sexual thoughts reported that happened in Lifts, you know, being like, oh, well, 842 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, of course you want to have transparency and 843 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: we care about safe writers, and it just kind of 844 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,840 Speaker 1: erase the fact that it's it was people like you, Alison, 845 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: who had to force them to put this report out late. 846 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 1: Might I add like it just erases or I feel 847 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: like it's an attempt to erase your voice and all 848 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: that you've been through because it makes their company look 849 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: like woke and good and helpful. That's that's completely it. 850 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:22,440 Speaker 1: And I think also they, um, they will never outside 851 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,600 Speaker 1: of what I assume is like in private slack messages 852 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: where you know, um, I always make a joke to 853 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 1: my friends that I assume that you know, um, if 854 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,760 Speaker 1: we did like a control f and their slack messages 855 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: for my name, it would just be um, you know, 856 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: a party. Um. But I I think LIFT will never 857 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,719 Speaker 1: ever give credit where credit is due, and I don't 858 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: need credit from Lift, Like that's not what I want. 859 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: Because the thing is is that so much of the 860 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: work that I do is just the idea of like, 861 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's not going to make my life better. Um, 862 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,719 Speaker 1: you know, I don't file a lawsuit to make my 863 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,320 Speaker 1: life better because I know, particularly you know, in putting 864 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: my name on a being public, um, I knew that 865 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: it was um for me an easy decision because in 866 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,760 Speaker 1: putting a name in a face to it to my trauma, 867 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: it was gonna be harder for a billion dollar tech 868 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 1: company to ignore me, but for so many other people. 869 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,840 Speaker 1: You know, being that public is not a decision. You know, 870 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: it's not an easy decision. UM. And I think it's 871 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: just the idea that like, you know, I'm assuming them. 872 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: They can't be like, oh, Alison Turcos, thank you so 873 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: much for all this work that you've done. UM. But 874 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: I think it's the idea of like they can never 875 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: acknowledge outside of saying, you know, we had four thousand 876 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: sexual assaults between but they will never call them. They're 877 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,239 Speaker 1: going to always refer to them as safety incidents, which 878 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: I think is UM in my opinion, like really diminishing. UM. 879 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: And it's really hard because, like I, UM, I get 880 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: really emotional when I talked about the report because I 881 00:50:55,400 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: worked so hard for that accountability UM. And yet it 882 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 1: feels really hard to see to have a company who 883 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,760 Speaker 1: at first told you that what happened to you didn't happen. 884 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,239 Speaker 1: Lift at first told me that, um, there was an 885 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,560 Speaker 1: error and that either um my driver dropped picked me 886 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,799 Speaker 1: up and dropped me off and then forgot to end 887 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,759 Speaker 1: the ride. So then he went to New Jersey on 888 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,799 Speaker 1: a second ride, which the map will clearly show that 889 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,400 Speaker 1: did not happen. And then when I told them that, 890 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: they were like, well, it must be UM a glitch 891 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,319 Speaker 1: and you either didn't update your phone, so it's an 892 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 1: iOS error. So they tried to blame it on Apple. 893 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,279 Speaker 1: I have an iPhone and they tried to blame it 894 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: on Apple. And then they said that like, there must 895 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,000 Speaker 1: be some connectivity error. So they just attempted to really 896 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: like gaslight me, gaslight me within twenty four hours of 897 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,440 Speaker 1: being can nap traffic sexually assaulted and basically say like 898 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 1: this didn't happen, and like documented I have emails that 899 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 1: say like lift saying like this never happened. This is 900 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,320 Speaker 1: a tech error on on your end, and then fighting 901 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:03,520 Speaker 1: relentlessly to have them release a report, and then seeing 902 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,600 Speaker 1: a report come out on a Friday Thursday night, late 903 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:12,680 Speaker 1: Thursday night, Friday morning, and seeing that one of those 904 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: numbers from UM, I am one of those numbers. And 905 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,399 Speaker 1: it goes back to the reason why like I will 906 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,440 Speaker 1: fight relentlessly is because it just goes to show like 907 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: I am one of many and like we have to 908 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,720 Speaker 1: fight or I we UM are fighting against a behemoth 909 00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: of a system and the idea for them to say 910 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,279 Speaker 1: that this is a safety report and that these are 911 00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:40,719 Speaker 1: safety incidents UM to me, and I've said this before 912 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:41,920 Speaker 1: and I will say it again, like, this is not 913 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: a safety report, this is a harm report. They are 914 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 1: reporting on harm and harm that they are actively complicit 915 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,680 Speaker 1: in and hiding UM. And yes, they could say, like 916 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 1: we're not hiding it. This is a transparency report, but 917 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 1: it's not UM hiding in the sense that like, if 918 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,160 Speaker 1: I had not filed my lawsuit, my number would not 919 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,320 Speaker 1: have been there. And so how many people have contacted LIFT, 920 00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 1: either through a written complaint or a phone call, and 921 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: then Lift said to them, I don't think that happened. 922 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,319 Speaker 1: I think that what happened is that it's probably your 923 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 1: iOS system has has to be updated, or like, I'm 924 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: really sorry that this happened to you. We're going to 925 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,800 Speaker 1: offer you a five dollar credit, maybe a fifty dollar credit, 926 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: so it never actually gets reported. And so that is 927 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I will, like again relentlessly 928 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,400 Speaker 1: fight to see real numbers and to see you know 929 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: what what you know. Yes, they'll show us the taxomy, 930 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,759 Speaker 1: but like what happens when someone calls and said I 931 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,839 Speaker 1: think I was just sexually assaulted by a driver, And 932 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,640 Speaker 1: what is the back end? What is the script that 933 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,360 Speaker 1: you have someone read? And the thing that feels a 934 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,160 Speaker 1: little bit um not great to me is that you 935 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,360 Speaker 1: have the sexual soul advocacy organizations like RAIN and like 936 00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,160 Speaker 1: it's on us who partner with LIFT. And sometimes it 937 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,160 Speaker 1: feels like you have these organizations that are allowing LIFT 938 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:09,680 Speaker 1: to use them to rehab their brand. And I really 939 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,400 Speaker 1: struggle with that because I just wish I'm like, who 940 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,439 Speaker 1: is truly holding them accountable? It's not Valerie Jarrett because 941 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,319 Speaker 1: she's sitting on their board and most likely getting paid 942 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,879 Speaker 1: to be on that board, and like, good for you, girl, 943 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,799 Speaker 1: make all your money. But like maybe let's just think 944 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,760 Speaker 1: of a different way to do it. And it doesn't 945 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,719 Speaker 1: feel like the folks on the Safety Advisory Council at 946 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,640 Speaker 1: LIFT UM, which is like, uh, it's on us and 947 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: a couple of other folks and Reliance and others, Like 948 00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,239 Speaker 1: who is doing it? Because right now it feels like 949 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: I'm on an island of my own UM and it 950 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 1: it's hard sometimes UM, but yet it's like we gotta 951 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 1: report they haven't agreed to release another one. UM, But 952 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: I'm grateful that they have a report. Uber is going 953 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,160 Speaker 1: to release another report at the end of the year. UM. 954 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 1: But I just you know, UM, when you get into 955 00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 1: a ride share there is an assumption of safety. And 956 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 1: I never want someone to go through what I went through, 957 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,560 Speaker 1: and I will never stop talking about it, and I 958 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:26,560 Speaker 1: will never stop holding institutions accountable because I think particularly 959 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:32,480 Speaker 1: as women, as FAMI identified folks, as queer folks, UM, 960 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,279 Speaker 1: particularly for communities of color. Again I am not I 961 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,080 Speaker 1: am white, UM, but like when you move through the world, 962 00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,919 Speaker 1: we are not safe. And I think that rides share 963 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 1: companies and particularly left in UM when I got into 964 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 1: that car, because what was happening is that the Muslim 965 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,279 Speaker 1: band had just passed and they were donating a million 966 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,200 Speaker 1: dollars to UM A sail you. They're doing campaigns of 967 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 1: like where your better boyfriend? And to me, it's just 968 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,799 Speaker 1: the idea of like, I need you to just be 969 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,200 Speaker 1: a little bit more honest. I need you to just 970 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,279 Speaker 1: be a little bit more transparent, and I need you 971 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,319 Speaker 1: to actually put the people who are being harmed at 972 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 1: the center. And that means rideshare sexual assault survivors and 973 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,480 Speaker 1: we are more of us are starting to speak out. 974 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: More of us are starting to be public and you 975 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: cannot put a value on our trauma, but it would 976 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,239 Speaker 1: be really helpful if you would not just erase what 977 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: happened to me to a safety incident, Alison, I have 978 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,359 Speaker 1: to tell I mean, I am like on the verge 979 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 1: of tears. I the I want you to know that 980 00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:47,799 Speaker 1: you're not alone, and that so many people are advocating 981 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 1: for you, people that you'll never meet, never hear from 982 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: our listening to your story and thinking fuck, yes, you 983 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 1: know where how can people what can people do to 984 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,839 Speaker 1: support you? What can people do to make sure that 985 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,960 Speaker 1: what what you just described that that is a change 986 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:10,080 Speaker 1: that we're able to create together. Yeah, it's a good question. Um, 987 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: I think you know. Um, some nice people are like, 988 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,320 Speaker 1: we're going to cancel lift, and I'm like, I don't 989 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,280 Speaker 1: think that's the answer. I appreciate that, um, but I 990 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,360 Speaker 1: don't think that's the answer. I think it's, to be honest, 991 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,040 Speaker 1: the best way to do it is like support survivors 992 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 1: in your life, Like the lift fight is, you know, 993 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,960 Speaker 1: is sort of over here and is like a bucket 994 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,680 Speaker 1: of work. But I think like truly, genuinely and honestly 995 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 1: is like support survivors in your life, and like similar 996 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:37,720 Speaker 1: to what I had said earlier, in the sense of like, 997 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,800 Speaker 1: excuse me. If you're in a work meeting, if you're 998 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, at a sleepover with your friends, if you're 999 00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:48,680 Speaker 1: on a call anything, be aware that there is most 1000 00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,640 Speaker 1: likely a survivor sitting next to you. Be aware that 1001 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 1: you were holding space with a survivor. UM. Be aware 1002 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,560 Speaker 1: of the language that you use, and you know, don't 1003 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,400 Speaker 1: use victim blaming language, you know. And UM. The thing 1004 00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: that I always think about, UM is if someone comes 1005 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,720 Speaker 1: to you and shares a story with you, and that 1006 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,760 Speaker 1: is a story of sexual assault, workplace harassment, anything, UM, 1007 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,920 Speaker 1: there is a very likely chance that you might be 1008 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,840 Speaker 1: the first person that they tell. And if you were 1009 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,160 Speaker 1: the first person, how you received that and hold space 1010 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,720 Speaker 1: for their harm is going to dramatically impact literally the 1011 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,000 Speaker 1: rest of their life and how they choose to UM 1012 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:32,440 Speaker 1: heal from that or tell other people or seek care. UM. 1013 00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,400 Speaker 1: And I think one of the best questions to ask 1014 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: people is both how can I support you? And is 1015 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,800 Speaker 1: this a feelings moment or a fixing moment? Because sometimes 1016 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,800 Speaker 1: we have a tendency to go into fixing mode and 1017 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,760 Speaker 1: it's just like, holy shit, a person that I love 1018 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,720 Speaker 1: was just harmed. I want to murder this person. I'm 1019 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: gonna go do this thing. I'm gonna whatever, Like we 1020 00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 1: should get you a therapist, we should you know, do 1021 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,960 Speaker 1: you want to go to this like silent retreat whatever? 1022 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,000 Speaker 1: And instead of being like, I'm really sorry that happened, 1023 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,959 Speaker 1: how can I support you in this moment? Provide all 1024 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,880 Speaker 1: of the space for that person to just like b 1025 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,800 Speaker 1: And that might be hard, and it might be difficult, 1026 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 1: and it might bring up ship for you, but that 1027 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: moment is not about you. That moment is about the 1028 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:28,560 Speaker 1: person who just experienced something horrible and traumatic. And then 1029 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,560 Speaker 1: like the next words out of your mouth might be, 1030 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,360 Speaker 1: is this a feeling moment or a fixing moment? Are 1031 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,600 Speaker 1: you looking for me to just listen while you vent 1032 00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,920 Speaker 1: and cry and just open yourself up? Or do you 1033 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,880 Speaker 1: want me to problem solve with you and allow that 1034 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,640 Speaker 1: person to tell you what they need because that is 1035 00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: going to be instrumental. And like, honestly, that is what 1036 00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: people can do for me, because I think for me 1037 00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,760 Speaker 1: it was um and my mom and I talked about 1038 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: this before, but like the first time that I told 1039 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:02,720 Speaker 1: my mom about what happened in college. Her response was like, 1040 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,120 Speaker 1: why did you wait so long to tell me? And 1041 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:11,000 Speaker 1: I was like, oh not the thanks mom, love you, um, 1042 01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,160 Speaker 1: and that it just wasn't what I needed in that 1043 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,680 Speaker 1: moment and shout out to Susan who was really done 1044 01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:21,880 Speaker 1: the work and started seeing a therapist and it was great. Um. 1045 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,400 Speaker 1: But now it's just the idea of when we hold 1046 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,640 Speaker 1: space for survivors to be like true and authentic and 1047 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,320 Speaker 1: their most three dimensional selves instead of being like, well, 1048 01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:34,080 Speaker 1: how much did you drink that night? Well, like you 1049 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,840 Speaker 1: had had sex with him before. I don't know. Consent 1050 01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 1: is fluid, It must be enthusiastic. It can be withdrawn 1051 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,880 Speaker 1: at any point in time. And I think, Um, the 1052 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,880 Speaker 1: other way that folks can support me in what I 1053 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:49,480 Speaker 1: mean is like support the world at large is like 1054 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:56,120 Speaker 1: read survivor stories. Um, read survivor stories, listen to survivor podcasts. Um. 1055 01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, like Roxane Gay has an incredible anthology called 1056 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,640 Speaker 1: Not That Bad, reading Chanelle Miller's book, Um, you know 1057 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,640 Speaker 1: there's an incredible podcast from NPR Are called Believed. Um, 1058 01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,280 Speaker 1: And like sitting with that and just really understanding and 1059 01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,640 Speaker 1: acknowledging that, like there are plethora of stories and as 1060 01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,000 Speaker 1: I said at the beginning, like there's no repeat experience, 1061 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,400 Speaker 1: No survivor experience is ever going to be the same 1062 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:27,200 Speaker 1: um and also acknowledging that like it's complicated. The survivor 1063 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,960 Speaker 1: experience is complicated. It is never cut and dry, it 1064 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,200 Speaker 1: is never black and white. And once you allow yourself 1065 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,240 Speaker 1: to just hold space and sit in the MUK with 1066 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,040 Speaker 1: someone and like you are able to see them and 1067 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,280 Speaker 1: to just acknowledge like this is hard and I am 1068 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: sorry and I'm uncomfortable right now, but I don't need 1069 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,040 Speaker 1: to tell the survivor that. And I'm just going to 1070 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:50,840 Speaker 1: be here for you, and I'm going to be a 1071 01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,920 Speaker 1: safer and support of space and anything that I can 1072 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,840 Speaker 1: do for you. And sometimes that might be like my 1073 01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,520 Speaker 1: best friend Morgan and I watch a lot of Grays 1074 01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,600 Speaker 1: and now I'm together, Like all I want to do 1075 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,440 Speaker 1: sometimes you just Goenner reading the Way to Blanket and 1076 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,520 Speaker 1: watch Grayson Anatomy and that's it. My best friend Kat 1077 01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,160 Speaker 1: and I watch a lot of Your Housewives, Like sometimes 1078 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,360 Speaker 1: I just want to sit and like, you know, drink 1079 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,080 Speaker 1: some wine and do that and whatever. And I think 1080 01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,560 Speaker 1: it's just the idea of like how were you showing 1081 01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:22,640 Speaker 1: up for survivors? Got a story about an interesting thing 1082 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,680 Speaker 1: in tech, or just want to say hi? You can 1083 01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:26,840 Speaker 1: be us at Hello at tang godi dot com. You 1084 01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,040 Speaker 1: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi dot com. 1085 01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:31,720 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by 1086 01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,320 Speaker 1: Me bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeart Radio and 1087 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,240 Speaker 1: Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison 1088 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,120 Speaker 1: as our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our 1089 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,760 Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Toad. If you want 1090 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. 1091 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart 1092 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,880 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 1093 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,480 Speaker 1: And then I have to Will wh