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Speaker 1: Sadev Charmond, the Cups feet and co host of North

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Speaker 1: Side Territory, part of the FT Network joining us right now.

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Speaker 1: Great hustle throughout the season and the postseason, Sadev, So,

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Speaker 1: how do you evaluate the Cubs season? Some have said

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Speaker 1: I've actually talked to a few areun Chicago that believed

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Speaker 1: this was a very successful campaign for the Cubs given

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Speaker 1: what they had to work with going into the year.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean what they had to work with, considering

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Speaker 2: Justin Steele got hurt, considering Kate Horton was hurt for

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Speaker 2: the playoffs, it was it was a perfectly acceptable season.

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Speaker 2: It was a step forward after what we'd seen in

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Speaker 2: previous seasons. So in that regard, you can say there

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Speaker 2: was some success. I just think, you know, with the

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Speaker 2: way the season started and how good the offense looked

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Speaker 2: to begin the year, how with a confidence level within

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Speaker 2: the team and outside, it seemed like they had a

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Speaker 2: shot of the World Series. Maybe that wasn't the case

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Speaker 2: entering the playoffs, with considering the injuries and where the

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Speaker 2: offense was at, and any season that ends in a loss,

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Speaker 2: I feel like, you know you didn't ultimately achieve your goals,

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Speaker 2: but they it was a step forward and it was

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Speaker 2: a solid season. I think it was a season they

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Speaker 2: could be happy with. I just you know, it's hard

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Speaker 2: to say it was this, you know, resounding success when

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Speaker 2: that's how it ends and you lose to the Brewers,

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Speaker 2: a team that you know, a fraction of their payroll

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Speaker 2: and continues to be the class of the NL Central

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Speaker 2: that they have something to chase after after this season.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, two part question for me. I know, he didn't

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Speaker 3: have the year that he was hoping to have. I

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Speaker 3: don't think he was having the year the Cubs that

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Speaker 3: he would have. But did Kyle Tucker do enough to

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Speaker 3: impress the Cubs to make him a priority in free agency?

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Speaker 3: And the second part is did the Cubs do a

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Speaker 3: good enough job of impressing Kyle Tucker for him to

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Speaker 3: want to come back?

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Speaker 2: So I think the Cubs are looked at as a

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Speaker 2: pretty good organization as far as taking care of their players,

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Speaker 2: taking care of players families, all those things. Players that

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Speaker 2: I talked to seem to really be happy with how

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Speaker 2: the Cubs run things. I do believe Kyle Tucker liked Chicago,

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Speaker 2: especially in the first half. He was well loved by

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Speaker 2: the really loved by the regally faithful. Things changed in

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Speaker 2: the second half, whether it was injuries, in effectiveness, whatever

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Speaker 2: it was. He wasn't as good, nearly as good as

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Speaker 2: that first half. That first half he was an MVP candidate.

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Speaker 2: The second half he didn't play much, and when he

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Speaker 2: did play, he wasn't at that same level. I think

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Speaker 2: in general it was going to be hard for the

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Speaker 2: Cubs to re sign him. I just I think they

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Speaker 2: looked at this as a one year thing and if

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Speaker 2: things kind of worked in their favor somehow, maybe they'd

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Speaker 2: be able to resign him. The Cubs. The reality is

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Speaker 2: the Cubs do not spend like a top five market.

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Speaker 2: They are a top three market, and they spend like

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Speaker 2: a middle tier market. That's just how it is. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I don't think it should be that way,

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Speaker 2: but it's just kind of how it's been for a

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Speaker 2: few years now, and you kind of have to analyze

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Speaker 2: it going forward with that knowledge in mind. So I

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Speaker 2: don't think they're going to resign him. I'd be surprised

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Speaker 2: by it. I don't think he's gonna get that four

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollar deal we were talking about six months ago.

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Speaker 2: I think it may be in the two hundreds, and

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Speaker 2: I still don't think the Cubs will sign him because

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Speaker 2: it's going to be six or seven years or something

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Speaker 2: like that, and that's just not where the Cubs heads

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Speaker 2: are at. I think they they will spend that type

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Speaker 2: of money on certain players. I don't think Kyle Tucker

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Speaker 2: is that guy. I do think the injuries and the

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Speaker 2: ineffectiveness and maybe that calf injury, especially at the end

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Speaker 2: of the year, and how long it took for him

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Speaker 2: to come back from that, that that may color some

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Speaker 2: of his time with the Cubs, and I think it

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Speaker 2: may end up leading to him it could end up

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Speaker 2: leading to him getting a little less money than a

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Speaker 2: lot of us affected.

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Speaker 4: So he finished actually three percent higher ops plus than

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Speaker 4: his career. So if he had his first half in

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Speaker 4: the second half, would you have would you change your

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Speaker 4: tone or would the Cubs also be in NLCS if

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Speaker 4: he had the first half that he had in if

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Speaker 4: he had his first half in the second.

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Speaker 2: Half, That's a that's a really good question. I do

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Speaker 2: think part of this is is narrative and recency bias.

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Speaker 2: I struggle with it too, but I'm just going off

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Speaker 2: what I've heard as far as my understanding of where

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Speaker 2: the Cubs are at I and yes, I do think

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Speaker 2: we'd be talking a little bit differently about Kyle Tucker.

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Speaker 2: We'd be talking a little bit differently about the Cubs

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Speaker 2: in general. If he had that first half in the

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Speaker 2: second half, it's just natural we'd be talking about, Wow,

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Speaker 2: look at this guy stepping up down the stretch and

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Speaker 2: in his postseason performance, this guy's clutch and things like that.

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Speaker 2: It's just the reality of the situation. And he didn't

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Speaker 2: have a bad playoffs, but that final game, he was

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Speaker 2: the one that stepped to the plate in the biggest

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Speaker 2: moment for the Cubs and that they had only one

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Speaker 2: real threat and he stepped to the plate with nobody

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Speaker 2: out and two men on and he didn't come through.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't mean he failed overall. I just don't think

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Speaker 2: he He delivered what some people kind of expected from him,

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Speaker 2: probably Michael Bush delivered the postseason that a lot of

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Speaker 2: people hoped Kyle Tucker could give. Yeah, I do think

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Speaker 2: there are some narrative narratives being built here, but I

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Speaker 2: also do think it's just it's a long shot. No

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Speaker 2: matter what, the Cubs were just a long shot to

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Speaker 2: sign him. They just don't spend like that, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know what he's gonna get, but I do feel

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Speaker 2: like the Cub he ends up somewhere else, and you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people were talking about Tampa. I wonder

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Speaker 2: if that ends up being the place. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if others, like if if he fits in like a

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Speaker 2: New York or other huge markets like that. Not that

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Speaker 2: he was like bad with the media anything like that.

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Speaker 2: I just I think he likes to, you know, avoid us.

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Speaker 2: And that's nothing against him. You know, everyone's different, but

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Speaker 2: I think he prefers to just keep to himself and

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Speaker 2: go play baseball and then do his thing. Maybe that

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Speaker 2: doesn't work in every market.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what Cubs team showed up for the series? Was

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Speaker 4: it the Cubs team that in the first inning? Was

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Speaker 4: it the first was it Michael Bush? Was it Saya Suzuki,

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Speaker 4: Oh man, we're gonna beat these guys, you know, screw

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Speaker 4: the Brewers, and or was it the team that struggled

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Speaker 4: to consistently add on runs throughout the season and then

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Speaker 4: in this series it kind of came to a head.

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Speaker 2: I like, if I had to pick a reason they lost,

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Speaker 2: I think it's the pitching. And I think it's the

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Speaker 2: first two games of the series. I think watching the playoffs,

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Speaker 2: I feel as if pitching is king and you just

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Speaker 2: do whatever you can, no matter what type of offense

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Speaker 2: you are, to kind of grind out runs and get two, three,

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Speaker 2: four runs. If you can get to four, that seems

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Speaker 2: like you're really safe. But they didn't have enough pitching

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Speaker 2: at the start. Kate Horton going down completely changed the

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Speaker 2: way their their pitching staff looked. It just it changed

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Speaker 2: everything as far as a thinking of how they had

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Speaker 2: to go about business. And then showed him Anaga's struggles

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Speaker 2: really impacted this team. Those two things completely changed how

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Speaker 2: the postseason looked for them. That showed him Monaga didn't

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Speaker 2: pitch in Game five, I think tells us a lot

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Speaker 2: about their confidence level and maybe even his confidence level

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Speaker 2: in his ability to get, you know, out some big moments.

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Speaker 2: I would not I'm shocked that I'm saying that. To

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Speaker 2: be honest, he did not seem like someone that you

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Speaker 2: would lack confidence in to get big outs, you know,

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of the season, even in the middle

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Speaker 2: of this season, so that his star has fallen faded

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Speaker 2: so quickly is a surprise. I do think the offense

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Speaker 2: didn't show up. I think it's hard to really jump

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Speaker 2: on them because I think that's just playoff baseball. You

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Speaker 2: gotta find ways to score a couple runs here and there.

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Speaker 2: They didn't do it. In Game five, they scored enough. Generally,

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Speaker 2: you know, you need to score three. They should have

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Speaker 2: added on more. Absolutely, you have to come through in

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Speaker 2: more situations. You have to put more pressure on the opposition.

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Speaker 2: I just think the Brewers threw a lot of good

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Speaker 2: pitchers at him. Their relief group was better than I realized.

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Speaker 2: I think, or maybe wanted to admit at times. Miserowski

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Speaker 2: had a really good series against them, some big outs

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Speaker 2: for the Brewers, especially in that final game. He's someone

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Speaker 2: that I've watched struggle in moments and look terrible and

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Speaker 2: then just is locked in. And it seemed like he

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Speaker 2: was locked in in his two appearances with the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: There were moments when he first came out in that

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Speaker 2: I believe it was Game two when he came out

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Speaker 2: and I said, this guy doesn't have it. He was

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Speaker 2: kind of bringing the ball all over the place, and

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Speaker 2: then he just quickly locked in and it was downhill

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Speaker 2: for the Cubs from there. But good like I'd credit

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Speaker 2: the Brewers pitching more than anything and kind of say

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Speaker 2: the Cubs just didn't have it in those first two games.

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Speaker 2: Pitching wise, Matthew Boyd on three days rest showed him

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Speaker 2: Naga struggling. It sunk them. KP.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think with a healthy Justin Steel, you would probably

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Speaker 3: put him in Game one and you trust him being

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Speaker 3: able to go out and you know, go toe to

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Speaker 3: toe with an ace. Do you feel like they missed

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Speaker 3: that window once he went down. I know it was

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Speaker 3: early in the year, but to be able to try

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Speaker 3: to go on and add a guy to kind of

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Speaker 3: replace him for foreshadowing if we get into the playoffs,

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Speaker 3: we need a legitimate number one to go against every

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Speaker 3: other team's number one.

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Speaker 2: I just I agree that they needed to do that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that guy was available at a

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Speaker 2: reasonable cost, because the guys that really moved the needle,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, were like Joe Ryan, some of the

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Speaker 2: Marlins guys, even Mackenzie Gore. I know he had a

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Speaker 2: really bad second half, but those were the guys at

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Speaker 2: the deadline that you could have pointed to and said

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Speaker 2: that moves the needle. None of those guys removed, and

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Speaker 2: from my understanding, the prices were pretty exorbitant. They would

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Speaker 2: have had to give up either you're talking about either

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Speaker 2: Kate Horton or match Shaw, and that's something that I

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Speaker 2: don't think they wanted to take away from their major

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Speaker 2: league roster. And I understand that that thought process you

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Speaker 2: give up Kate Horton. I think he's someone you mentioned

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Speaker 2: justin Steel. He's someone I think could have matched. I

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Speaker 2: think he could have had a coming out party in

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Speaker 2: the postseason. This guy, you talk to him, you listen

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Speaker 2: to him, you talk, you listen to the way others

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Speaker 2: talk about him. You understand, Oh, not only does he

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Speaker 2: have stuff, not only was he improving as each start out,

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Speaker 2: but he also has the mentality that the teams crave

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Speaker 2: from a starting pitcher. This guy is not afraid of

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Speaker 2: any challenge. He hits a rough patch and all he

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Speaker 2: wants to do is fight through it and get better

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Speaker 2: and learn from it. Really impressive guy to talk to,

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Speaker 2: Really impressive to hear from the coaches that they thought

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Speaker 2: so highly of him right away. Tells me a lot

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Speaker 2: about him. I think he's a guy that you know,

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Speaker 2: as long as he stays healthy. I think this is

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Speaker 2: a guy that in a year from now, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: be saying, does does Kate Horton deserve Cy Young votes

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Speaker 2: things like that. I really think he's got a high

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Speaker 2: upside and that's the guy you should watch. But I

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Speaker 2: agree that they should have gone there. There wasn't that

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Speaker 2: picture moved, but they needed to do something. And you know,

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Speaker 2: hindsight is twenty twenty, but we were all saying it

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Speaker 2: at the deadline, they're gonna go get a starter. They're

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Speaker 2: going to go get a starter. They went and got

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Speaker 2: Michael Siroco, just didn't impact the team as they had hoped.

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Speaker 2: So it didn't work out and it looks like it

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Speaker 2: bit them all. Right.

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Speaker 4: Another young guy that's on this roster, Kate Horton's just

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Speaker 4: turned twenty four years old. Pete crow Armstrong played his

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Speaker 4: entire season, is twenty three year old. Season All Star.

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Speaker 4: Is his approach and the way that he goes about

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Speaker 4: his approach at the plate? I get it, he made

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Speaker 4: some ridiculous catches in the outfield and the postseason. Is

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Speaker 4: his approach something that he and the organization want to

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Speaker 4: maybe change. I think he had twenty nine walks one

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty five strikeouts. Is that something that they

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Speaker 4: want to change or do they just want him to

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Speaker 4: have more success and figure it out that way because

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Speaker 4: his on base percentage just started to decline the whole year,

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Speaker 4: and then when you get to the postseason, teams are like, oh,

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Speaker 4: well he's gonna swing at the rosenbag, so we'll go

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Speaker 4: ahead and just throw that to him.

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Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, it's a fair question. I don't know. It's

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Speaker 2: a risk too. When you start talking about changing someone's

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Speaker 2: approach that's already in the major leagues, that's really risky.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen it go sideways. We've seen it with

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Speaker 2: the Cubs go sideways. I go back to Starlin Castro

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Speaker 2: when they tried to do that with him and tried

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Speaker 2: to tap into more power and get more walks. It

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Speaker 2: just it went really sideways and altered his career. It

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Speaker 2: can work, it can h And he's certainly a hard worker,

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Speaker 2: you know, as much as he he gets criticized for

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Speaker 2: being so emotional on the field highs or lows, there's

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Speaker 2: no doubt that he's highly respected by the veterans for

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Speaker 2: you know, putting in work and and and wanting to

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Speaker 2: get better. So I think if they have a plan

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Speaker 2: in place, I'd be surprised if the plan is like,

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Speaker 2: you need to take more walks don't swing as much.

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Speaker 2: You know, the swing decisions are probably something he'll continue

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Speaker 2: to work on. I do think that improved as the

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Speaker 2: season went on. Obviously he was exposed in the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: There are certain holes. Uh you know, obviously the scouting

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Speaker 2: reports get much more specific, you get a ton more information,

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Speaker 2: and the pictures are just better, especially some of those

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Speaker 2: Padres pictures that were going that they were going up

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Speaker 2: against Freddy Peralta. These are guys that can specifically expose

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Speaker 2: that their stuff specifically exposes p corb CERN's biggest holes.

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Speaker 2: I agree that something needs to change, and maybe that's

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Speaker 2: just natural development. I also think that this may be

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Speaker 2: kind of what Pete Armstrong is really high highs, some

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Speaker 2: pretty bad lows, and then it's about minimizing those lows

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Speaker 2: over the course of his career. I don't think. I

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Speaker 2: think we all, myself included, we probably got carried away

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Speaker 2: in that first half, Oh is this who this guy is?

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Speaker 2: And I think we kind of came back down to

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Speaker 2: earth and said, Okay, he's going to have normal ups

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Speaker 2: and downs, and the ups are just so high that

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Speaker 2: you could just it takes you to this level where

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Speaker 2: you're like, Wow, this guy's a superstar. Certainly performs like

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Speaker 2: one at times, but he's a flawed offensive player, and

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Speaker 2: I'd be surprised if there's major changes. I think you

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Speaker 2: could hope for and expect natural development for a young player.

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Speaker 2: I just don't know if he's going to be a

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Speaker 2: guy that we see a high walk percentage for. I

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Speaker 2: think his on base percentage is going to be based

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Speaker 2: upon his batting average, and and for him like that,

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Speaker 2: that may not be the highest and you have to

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Speaker 2: hope that this power is rale and sticks around. Otherwise,

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Speaker 2: you know, what he is is a really good defensive

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Speaker 2: player with a ton of value there. And if he

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Speaker 2: can be an average offensive player, that's still a really

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Speaker 2: good player. But I think he just set expectations so

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Speaker 2: high in this first half that you know where we're

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Speaker 2: always going to be wondering can he be that guy

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Speaker 2: for a full season, for a full career?

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Speaker 3: Man, it sounds like you were talking about me at

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Speaker 3: the end. You know, good defender, average, still valuable, man.

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Speaker 3: You can play a long time doing that. But speaking

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Speaker 3: of like breakouts, Pete Romstrong we talked about, I don't

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Speaker 3: think Michael Bush gets enough credit for what he did

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Speaker 3: this year. But I love kind of talking about the

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Speaker 3: old guys in the game, the veterans. You know, I

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Speaker 3: wish I had a hat that say keep old guys employed.

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Speaker 3: Talk about kind of the impact that Justin Turner had,

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Speaker 3: maybe on those two young guys, but maybe just the

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Speaker 3: entire culture of the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was. It's huge. I don't think

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Speaker 2: you can overstate it. I came into this business very

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Speaker 2: much a numbers guy and underrated the stuff going on

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Speaker 2: in the clubhouse. I've been in clubhouses for fifteen years

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Speaker 2: now over that, and and I would you know, I've

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Speaker 2: learned a lot about the value and the intangibles that

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Speaker 2: these guys can bring. I do believe there's some younger

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Speaker 2: leaders in that clubhouse. Nico Horner stands out to me.

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Speaker 2: Ian Happ is a good clubhouse guy, but a veteran

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Speaker 2: like Justin Turner, who has been through it all, who

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Speaker 2: has been a star on a team, who was it

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Speaker 2: who had a really big home run against the Cubs

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Speaker 2: in the postseason. He's he's seen a lot, He's done

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Speaker 2: a lot, and then so not only has does he

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Speaker 2: have that experience, but he comes into a situation where

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Speaker 2: he could he could complain he could say I should

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Speaker 2: be playing more, I need more playing time. Look at

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Speaker 2: my you know, look at look at what I've done

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Speaker 2: in my career. Never once did he do that. Never

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Speaker 2: once did I hear complain from a coach like this

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Speaker 2: guy is just know in the clubhouse telling everyone how

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Speaker 2: great he is. Nothing like that. That's not who he is.

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Speaker 2: I think through his career he learned that. He learned like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is where I am now in my career, and

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Speaker 2: this is the role I can hold, and I want

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Speaker 2: to be great at it. I want to do this

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Speaker 2: and I want to do it well. You'd see him

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Speaker 2: a lot of times putting his arm around a guy

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Speaker 2: in the in the dugout and kind of calming them down, Hey,

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Speaker 2: we need you, we were going to need you later

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Speaker 2: in the season, We're gonna need you later in this game,

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Speaker 2: whatever it may be. And and from my understanding, he'd

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Speaker 2: also get on them. He wasn't afraid to call someone

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Speaker 2: out and tell them you need to you know, this

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Speaker 2: is how you behave in the big leagues. This is

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Speaker 2: what you need to do. This is the type of

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Speaker 2: work you need to put in, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't afraid to call guys out, and I think

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Speaker 2: being able to do both is hard in any area

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Speaker 2: of life. Like I know as a dad, it's hard

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Speaker 2: for me sometimes to be the bad guy, but like

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's sometimes needed. It's the you know, and

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Speaker 2: he was really good at it. I was impressed when

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Speaker 2: talking to him, and just when hearing from others players

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Speaker 2: that barely impacted the playoffs or in any way spoke

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Speaker 2: really highly of them young guys. Ben Brown, I think

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Speaker 2: it made one appearance and just gushed about Justin Turner.

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Speaker 2: I think he had a major impact on this team

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Speaker 2: and he probably, you know, years from now, we're going

377
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Speaker 2: to hear he had a He had a lasting impact,

378
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Speaker 2: something that you know, hopefully helped guys grow in some

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Speaker 2: way and it leads to a longer career or gives

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Speaker 2: them some perspective in the game that they that helps

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Speaker 2: them get through future difficult moments.

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Speaker 4: I've seen this rivalry firsthand, the Cubs and Brewers. How

383
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Speaker 4: as seeing it from the Cubs side and hearing fans

384
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Speaker 4: Cubs fans, how have they reacted to the hanging the

385
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Speaker 4: L flag in their team picture when they had already

386
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Speaker 4: beaten the team? As much as I could say, you know,

387
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Speaker 4: but I'm a Brewer side of this argument. I'm never

388
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Speaker 4: a side of rubbing it in their face. But is

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Speaker 4: it is it fair to the victor goes the spoils?

390
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Speaker 2: You know? For me, it's kind of just like you

391
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Speaker 2: when you get to do what you want and celebrate

392
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Speaker 2: how you want. I do think there are some fans

393
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Speaker 2: that were like, what are you doing? Like go like

394
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Speaker 2: you you have you know, you beat us just to

395
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Speaker 2: enjoy it, Like I'll read in your head, So why

396
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Speaker 2: are you still thinking about us? Even like what's the

397
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Speaker 2: And I get that, like maybe they do obsess a

398
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Speaker 2: little bit over think too much about the Cubs. I mean,

399
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Speaker 2: the Cubs are the supposed to be the big bad Cubs.

400
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Speaker 2: They're the big spenders, They're the ones that can do

401
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Speaker 2: all these things, and the Brewers keep beating them and

402
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Speaker 2: they don't get much recognition. I think they're starting to

403
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Speaker 2: I've certainly changed my tune over the past few years.

404
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Speaker 2: I used to say that they can't keep doing this.

405
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Speaker 2: Guess what they can. They're really good. That's a great organization,

406
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Speaker 2: just so well run, and it's a model organization. More

407
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 2: teams should look to them and say, how do they

408
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Speaker 2: do it they're doing, and how can we replicate that.

409
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Speaker 2: It's it's not easy. I could tell you that, uh,

410
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Speaker 2: it seemed a little over the top, but I also

411
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Speaker 2: I just referred to, well, they want, so they get

412
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Speaker 2: to do what they want. But I can certainly tell

413
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Speaker 2: you that fans were annoyed by it and thought it

414
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Speaker 2: was a little petty and thought it was kind of

415
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Speaker 2: like what, you know, Wow, you can't get the Cubs

416
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Speaker 2: out of your mind type of situation. It was prepared.

417
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Speaker 2: Someone has to have that time ready to go. They

418
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Speaker 2: were somebody.

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Speaker 4: There's a fan in the front row. That always happened

420
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Speaker 4: at Rulers games, however, the Cubs whenever the Cubs come in,

421
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Speaker 4: so they took it from the fan, yep.

422
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Speaker 1: And then that's pretty organic. That seems harmless. I mean

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Speaker 1: they're singing New York, New York, you know, and all

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Speaker 1: that with.

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Speaker 3: These postgame ceremonies is old the ultimate sign of confidence

426
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Speaker 3: and belief in your team. Now, that's what I'm starting

427
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Speaker 3: to gather because I was witness firsthand the New York

428
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Speaker 3: New York situation that wasn't made up in the moment,

429
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Speaker 3: that was kind of premeditated. So I think much like

430
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Speaker 3: you said, the Brewers, even though it was there, someone

431
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Speaker 3: had to wharabouts to be like if we no, not

432
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Speaker 3: if when we win this game, I'm going to take

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Speaker 3: that flag. So maybe that's the new sign of ultimate

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Speaker 3: belief in your team and confidence where you can already

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Speaker 3: prepare these celebrations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean some Cubs fans that I guess

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Speaker 1: forgot twenty sixteen, thought the best moment of their life was,

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Speaker 1: you know, for an inning, shouting Freddy and him giving

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Speaker 1: up a home run as if they were impacting the game.

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Speaker 1: So whatever makes people happy these.

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Speaker 2: Days, right, Satday?

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Speaker 1: Great stuff, great coverage, awesome listening to Northside Territory.

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Speaker 2: And reading articles the athletics.

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Speaker 1: We're out and we'll be dialed in in the offseason

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Speaker 1: see what happens.

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Speaker 2: Thanks man, thank you, thanks for having me on. Guys,

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Speaker 2: take care,