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Speaker 1: Hey, the Hunting Collective, we're here another episode. It's a

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Speaker 1: good one today, you're gonna like it. Um. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: start off the show with my friend and Meat Eaters

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Speaker 1: Hunting editor Spencer new Art. He's back on the show

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Speaker 1: and he's got a lot of turkey facts. Actually, he's

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Speaker 1: written some articles and done a lot of studies in

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Speaker 1: the past on the history of the wild turkey in

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Speaker 1: this continent. He's gonna give us some of those facts,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna quiz him on some turkey facts, see

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Speaker 1: what he knows. We're gonna flip it to the interview

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Speaker 1: portion of the show, and in that he is a

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Speaker 1: very impressive gentleman. Dr James Earl Kennemer. I went and

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Speaker 1: met with him down in Edgefield, South Carolina at the

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Speaker 1: n w t F headquarters. He was for a very

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Speaker 1: long time, three decades in fact, the chief conservation officer

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Speaker 1: for the National Wild Turkey Federation. So you're gonna love it.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about First Light. That's my favorite gear company

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Speaker 1: on the planet Earth folks, and they've got the whole

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Speaker 1: New twenty nine team line out on their website and

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Speaker 1: I got this thing called the Men's brooks Down Sweater.

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Speaker 1: I've been wearing it. They sent it to me, and

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Speaker 1: I've been wearing it. I didn't think I don't have

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Speaker 1: to wear in the spring, but my dad and I

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Speaker 1: were bear hunting, as you heard last week on the show,

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Speaker 1: and it was cold as could be, and so we

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Speaker 1: needed to layer up as it were, and pulled out

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Speaker 1: the Men's brooks Down Sweater and it solved a lot

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Speaker 1: of my problems. I love the thing. It's super lightweight,

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Speaker 1: it's easily packable. Um, it is everything all the installation

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Speaker 1: that you expect from an outer layer piece like this

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Speaker 1: from First Light in this design, using more down than

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Speaker 1: its closest competitor to be the lightest way possible, ensuring

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Speaker 1: best in class warmth. And when it starts to snow

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Speaker 1: in June and Montana, uh, you're a little bit depressed,

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Speaker 1: but you're also happy you have this thing in your back.

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Speaker 1: So go to first Light dot com and look up

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Speaker 1: the brooks Down sweat out. All right, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: we're going back to turkeys this episode. Let's go. I

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Speaker 1: guess I grew up on an all the road A

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Speaker 1: pared'll do the meadal I always did what I've told

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Speaker 1: until I found out that my brand new clothes the

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Speaker 1: games that can hand from the rich kids next door,

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Speaker 1: and I grew up baths. I guess I grew up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a thousand things inside of my

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Speaker 1: head I wish I ain't seen, and now I just

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Speaker 1: wanted through a real bad dream of being a like

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Speaker 1: I'm coming apart of the scenes. But thank you Jack Daniel. No, hey,

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Speaker 1: everybody been O'Brien here another sort of the Hunting Collective

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Speaker 1: six eighteen nineteen is when you're gonna be listening to

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Speaker 1: this bad boy. And I know I told everybody that

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Speaker 1: Turkey season was over and well in Jannest Matels and

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago said a sad goodbye to

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Speaker 1: Turkey season. But in my infinite power, in this podcast,

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Speaker 1: I've decided to bring it back. And we're not gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about hunting turkeys. We're gonna talk about the history

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Speaker 1: here the wild turkey and what is I think probably

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Speaker 1: one of the most incredible conservation stories that we've got,

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Speaker 1: and we have a lot of them. So I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by Spencer new Art, the Hunting editor here at the

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Speaker 1: Meat Eaters, to talk about that. What's up, man, it's up, Ben.

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Speaker 1: You know, turkeys are cool when we are like a

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Speaker 1: few months away now from LK. Hunning and you know,

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Speaker 1: mule deer and white tailor right around the corner, and

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Speaker 1: we are still yet talking a lot of turkeys. I know,

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Speaker 1: maybe people get bored of turkeys, but I don't get

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Speaker 1: bored of turkeys. So I'm bringing it back. I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: it back because for a lot of reasons, I love turkeys.

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Speaker 1: But I went. I flew down to the n w

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Speaker 1: TF headquarters there in Edgefield, South Carolina, a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks back, and I talked to a man named Dr

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Speaker 1: James Earl Kennemer. Yeah. You probably don't know who that is, um,

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Speaker 1: and that sucks you're you're about to um. He was

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Speaker 1: the chief conservation Officer for the n w TF for

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Speaker 1: thirty two years. Um. This is a man that And

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Speaker 1: when when the movement to bring the turkey back, bring

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Speaker 1: turkey populations back from the brink, We'll discuss that in

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Speaker 1: a moment. When that movement began in Earnest, this was

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Speaker 1: one of the guys at the helm right. It had

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Speaker 1: been going on for a few decades before he had

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Speaker 1: an official position at the n w TF. But he

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of other of his contemporaries, we're the

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Speaker 1: ones that we're using cannons to trap turkeys, were drugging turkeys. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He tells a story and the interviews what that's coming

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Speaker 1: up about being woken up by snoring turkeys in his

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Speaker 1: apartment because they were drugging him, putting him in a

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Speaker 1: bag and he would put him in his apartment before

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Speaker 1: they would go and release him. He tells you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he tells some stories about trading turkeys between states, organizing

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Speaker 1: these these turkey trades with other wildlife. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting story. He's an interesting man. What years uh

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Speaker 1: was he active? Like? Where does his story begin with?

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Speaker 1: His story begins in the eighties, um with the National

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Speaker 1: a Turkey Federation, but he's been involved in turkey restoration

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Speaker 1: since the sixties. UM. So he's you know, if you

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Speaker 1: want to if you really want to talk to somebody

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Speaker 1: who was in the middle of it all and has

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Speaker 1: just about every crazy story you can think of, it's

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Speaker 1: this guy. Um. He's now retired, but he's nice enough

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Speaker 1: to kind of come back to the end of a

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Speaker 1: t F headquarters and chat with me a little bit

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Speaker 1: over there, so you're gonna hear that in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into that, Spencer and I are

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Speaker 1: going to regale you with all kinds of Turkey facts

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Speaker 1: in a Turkey history. And I'm gonna start by We're

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Speaker 1: gonna see if um Spencer has the knowledge that he

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Speaker 1: says he does. I'm gonna quiz you on the origin

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Speaker 1: of the turkey names of all four Well, there's more

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Speaker 1: than four subspecies, but there's four in these great States.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna quiz you on these. The Merriam's wild

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Speaker 1: turkey is named after whom Miriam Mr Mr Merriam Nope,

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Speaker 1: uh Dr E. W. Nelson a d named the Merriam's

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Speaker 1: turkey in honor of the first chief of the U.

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Speaker 1: S Biological Survey see Heart Merriam se Mariam. I would

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Speaker 1: not have gotten that. It's a hot fact. It's a

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Speaker 1: hot fact. I don't think a lot of people would

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Speaker 1: have gotten that. I would have credited to like some

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Speaker 1: one and that was with Lewis and Clark or something

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Speaker 1: something like that. You want to ask me one, you

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Speaker 1: got one for me. We didn't prepare these, but you

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Speaker 1: got a nice fact. I won't get it. I'll probably

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Speaker 1: get it wrong. How fast Kenny turkey run? Man, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty fast. Not as fast as a federal premium TSS

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Speaker 1: heavyweight load? That does the man? Tell me? Tell me? Uh?

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Speaker 1: So I wrote about this number of years ago, how

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Speaker 1: cool turkeys are, and that most people um just thinking

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Speaker 1: about their vision. But there's so many other things to consider.

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Speaker 1: One of them is their legs. Now they can run

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Speaker 1: twenty five miles or and uh it was like when

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Speaker 1: you say Bolt ran his gold metal uh race for

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Speaker 1: the Hunter meter dash, I like he was topped out

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Speaker 1: at like twenty two and a half miles an hour.

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Speaker 1: So you're telling me so, you're telling me that a

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Speaker 1: wild turkey could beat you, Saint Bolt. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it would have the breaking news, that's what Spencer's

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Speaker 1: telling us. Maybe, I don't know if it had a

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Speaker 1: longevity to I think it would be able to not

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Speaker 1: fly eventually be like screw this, and it would just

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Speaker 1: take flight because it has wings and the same Bolt

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Speaker 1: is not, as far as I know, have wings. I

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Speaker 1: just checked here. It's that two keys can run twenty

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Speaker 1: five miles per hour. That is three miles per hour

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Speaker 1: slower than Usain Bolt so close humans still got him,

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Speaker 1: all right. I didn't want to get any messages from

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Speaker 1: Usain Bolt fans about this. What about the Florida What

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Speaker 1: was originally called and described the Florida Turkey and eight

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Speaker 1: by W. E. D. Scott, and he named it for

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Speaker 1: a chief from what Indians? What? What Native American tribe?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, based in Florida, popular in Florida. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a good guess. It's a seminoles seminal tribe.

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Speaker 1: That was an I was trying to throw you. You

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Speaker 1: gave me plenty of clues. Um, And that was they

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Speaker 1: named it after again, a famous seminal chief, Osceola, and

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Speaker 1: that's the Osceola Turkey. Um. The Eastern wild Turkey doesn't

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Speaker 1: really have a specific like a specific name or no

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Speaker 1: mc glacier, but it was named by L. JP Via

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Speaker 1: Elliott in eighteen seventeen using the Latin word sylvesters, meaning

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Speaker 1: forest turkey. So now you know that got that one.

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Speaker 1: So before we get to a guy like James R. O'kannamer,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of history for the wild turkey, a

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Speaker 1: lot of things about the wild turkey that people probably

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Speaker 1: don't know, and there's a lot of the story that

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Speaker 1: they probably haven't heard. So we have Spencer here who

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Speaker 1: has a background and one the written word, but also

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Speaker 1: in biology wildlife variety. So give us a little bit

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Speaker 1: of color on the story of the wild turkey prior

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Speaker 1: to its modern conservation success and some of the things

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Speaker 1: that you know about it. Yet. Well, uh, when when

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Speaker 1: Europeans kind of arrived here, uh in this sixteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: they really took to like all the big game that

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Speaker 1: North American had to offer too much. So there was

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Speaker 1: a rising colonists population, and uh, they were just taking

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Speaker 1: out turkeys because they were easy to kill turkeys, Henman

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Speaker 1: hunted that much. And they were also taking away a

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Speaker 1: lot of habitat. So you know, by like eighteen thirteen,

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Speaker 1: I think we had the First States losing their turkey

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Speaker 1: population for those reasons, the loss of habitat and over hunting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I and when you're pan settlers landed here, they

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Speaker 1: had only ever seen like guinea foul, p foul other

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Speaker 1: types of birds, so they didn't even really know what

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Speaker 1: a wild turkey was. And if you read a lot

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Speaker 1: of the writings of early European settlers, you'll see like

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Speaker 1: the guinea foul looking bird is around, and then they

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Speaker 1: started to learn more about it and understand that they

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Speaker 1: were easy to kill. What they killed him with who knows,

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Speaker 1: probably our tree equipment. Yeah, and and it got worse,

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Speaker 1: like through the eighteen hundreds. It was by nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: that eighteen of thirty nine states had completely lost their

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Speaker 1: wild turkey populations. So that left like two percent of

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Speaker 1: the continents original ten million turkeys. Uh, and that you

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Speaker 1: know would seem almost like an unsolvable problem. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And in the turkeys, there's there's some myths that come

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Speaker 1: with the turkey. And this is something that Dr Kennemer

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Speaker 1: corrected me on a few times during our our conversation.

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Speaker 1: But everybody kind of say about that the first Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: thinks about wild turkey. Um, that's the famous meal in

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Speaker 1: sie um. But it's it's really been speculated and and

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Speaker 1: this is something Canmera believes that the turkey didn't come

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Speaker 1: a common part of Thanksgiving dinner until the eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: So whether or not a turkey was present or they

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Speaker 1: just we've posthumously added it to the meal, we don't know.

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Speaker 1: But Cannmra believes as that's a myth. And he also believes. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's another thing that I brought up in the interview

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Speaker 1: where Benjamin Franklin champion the wild turkey um as the

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Speaker 1: as the national bird over the bald eagle. That you've

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Speaker 1: heard a lot of people, a lot of people will

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Speaker 1: say that, right, Um, this is discussed in like the seventies,

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Speaker 1: seventies and seventeen eighties. UM, that wasn't so like there

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Speaker 1: was a seal committee for for what the national bird

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Speaker 1: would be. In the first seal committee was formed same

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Speaker 1: day the Declaration of Independence was signed in seventeen seventy six. UM.

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Speaker 1: That was composed from Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, um, and the

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Speaker 1: in that committee that was there to decide that did

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Speaker 1: not reach an agreement. And it was only later on

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Speaker 1: that Franklin grew tired of the variety of bald eagle

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Speaker 1: motifs and stuff that was around after they had already

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Speaker 1: named the bald eagle the national bird, and then he

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Speaker 1: started to push a little bit of his his conversation

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Speaker 1: about the wild turkey, but he did not argue for

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Speaker 1: the wild turkey in that seal committee when they decided

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Speaker 1: on on the bald eagle. UM. The cool bird has

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Speaker 1: been not that cool. I guess now we'll screw you, Franklin, Like,

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Speaker 1: get on it, man, you came to the table too late.

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Speaker 1: We could have had the coolest bird, a flightless raptor

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Speaker 1: flightless dinosaur could have been the national bird. And now

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Speaker 1: we got the bald eagle. Boring um and a letter

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Speaker 1: to his daughter. This is something that can remember pointed

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Speaker 1: me to in a letter to his daughter in before

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Speaker 1: he noted that the order of since I don't even

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Speaker 1: say insatatus, that's really makes me sound stupid, had to

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Speaker 1: produce like a badge, more like a turkey than an eagle.

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Speaker 1: And Franklin went on to talk about the bad points

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Speaker 1: of the eagle and the good points of the turkey,

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Speaker 1: but never actually recommended the turkey for the American symbol. Um.

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Speaker 1: So now we can we can call that a myth

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Speaker 1: to tall tales. But back to and then we'll go

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Speaker 1: back to the demise of turkey populations and then the recoveries. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's still those five subspecies and they, as you said,

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Speaker 1: they declined to their lowest numbers in the twenties and

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Speaker 1: the thirties. And what else you got, well, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of in the thirties that they was in unintentional unintentional rebound. Um.

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Speaker 1: When the Great Depression happened, you had this uh migration

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Speaker 1: from the farmland to the city, and it left a

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Speaker 1: lot of this egg land abandoned. And as that started

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Speaker 1: to come act uh to its native form, turkeys took

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Speaker 1: up that landscape. And so unintentionally kind of before like

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Speaker 1: turkey recovery was a thing, it was already happening. And

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Speaker 1: then a little bit later on the next few decades, UM,

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Speaker 1: you had some major failures. Once it was recognized that

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Speaker 1: our turkey flocks are depleted, UM, we need to help

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Speaker 1: these things out. They went to the most obvious way

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Speaker 1: to fix that, which was released more turkeys. So they

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Speaker 1: raised these things and pens kick them out. But it

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Speaker 1: was a failure. UM. One statistic that I found was

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Speaker 1: that of pen raised birds failed to establish populations. So

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Speaker 1: that is just like uh peeing into the wind, bad news, piston,

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Speaker 1: end of the wind. Yeah, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that really allowed these conservation moves that could go on,

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Speaker 1: you know. UM. Out of Leopold published his book of

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Speaker 1: Game Management Principles in ninety three, and then you got

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Speaker 1: the Piven Robertson Acts that came seven seven that started

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Speaker 1: to allow for these principles to take hold, but also

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Speaker 1: for them to be funding and things, you know, and

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Speaker 1: mechanisms and things to allow for this stuff to get

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Speaker 1: get going. Um. And that's that's something I walked through

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Speaker 1: the nd FCF Turkey Museum with Dr Kenner and he

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Speaker 1: pointed a lot of that out, like there was this

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Speaker 1: confluence of events that all happened, stuff that you're mentioning,

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Speaker 1: like societally and culturally and just shifts. Then also some

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Speaker 1: mechanisms within the government to allow that to go down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's cool that you get to talk to somebody

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Speaker 1: from the sixties because that is like maybe the actual

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Speaker 1: genesis of turkey recovery and the fifties they had the

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Speaker 1: first turkey cannons developed, um, and once they figured out

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Speaker 1: that we need to be stocking or restocking wild turkeys

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Speaker 1: rather than pen raised turkeys, that was when they were

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Speaker 1: able to really help out the country's populations. And so

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Speaker 1: you were talking to somebody who was earli early on

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Speaker 1: in that well, I screwed up and talking to him

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Speaker 1: because we didn't talk about the cannons. We did later

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Speaker 1: on in the museum, look at one of the cannons

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Speaker 1: and talk to talk about the nets that they used

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Speaker 1: to capture turkeys. And in originally these these canons were

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Speaker 1: for capturing waterfowl. They were so there was a giant cannon.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what the purpose was where they putting

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Speaker 1: wild waterfol It might have been the for tagging and

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Speaker 1: waterfowl and things of that nature. Um, But they were

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Speaker 1: designed to shoot at flying game or flying ducks and

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Speaker 1: geese and things like that. Um. But they would conceal

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Speaker 1: themselves on the ground and they would put some corn

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Speaker 1: out in a row, and these turkeys would come and

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Speaker 1: they would either eventually um, they start drugging them and

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Speaker 1: putting them to sleep and then capturing them. In fact,

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Speaker 1: there's a picture that I'll share with this podcast of

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Speaker 1: Cannamer in the seventies barefoot holding it asleep turkey Like

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Speaker 1: this is part of their efforts to go out end

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Speaker 1: up ts, go out drug these turkeys and move them

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Speaker 1: all around the country and transplant them the way they did.

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Speaker 1: But they Cannaber sent me another thing about the cannon

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Speaker 1: net technique. It just says that it involved concealing on

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Speaker 1: the ground and net that would be remotely propelled over

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Speaker 1: turkeys by a trapper from a blind and it's like

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Speaker 1: a thirty to sixty foot mash cloth and opens up

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Speaker 1: for it's propelled by black but like three or four

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Speaker 1: black powder cannons elect and can be and was often

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Speaker 1: detonated electronically, So it's a it's pretty powerful thing. And

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Speaker 1: then some of the early there's there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stories about some of the early turkey researchers testing these

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Speaker 1: nets on themselves and it works, it ends up and

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Speaker 1: end up and end up getting getting injured. But the

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Speaker 1: first he also told me that the first wild turkey

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Speaker 1: is known to be captured with this method were on

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Speaker 1: the Francis Mariam National Wildlife Forest in South Carolina, and

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Speaker 1: so that when it was popularized, who knows, but the

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Speaker 1: idea that this needed to happen was goes all the

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Speaker 1: way back um to win Canama was in his prime

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Speaker 1: doing this and that ended up being like the silver

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Speaker 1: bullet for helping out turkey populations, yep. And then it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's just amazing to me, like there's so many

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Speaker 1: things that are amazing about this, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: we were cannon netting, I wish I could shoot one

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Speaker 1: of I might get one of these cannon nets just

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Speaker 1: to see if I can capture Renella in it or something,

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Speaker 1: or maybe Yanni, maybe the lobby an eagle. But for

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Speaker 1: for I mean, these folks like Canama and his contemporaries

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Speaker 1: did something did not not in its just in the concept,

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Speaker 1: but in the activity that seems impossible, Like for it

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Speaker 1: to have gone in that short time, in five decades,

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Speaker 1: for it to have gone to where it was to

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Speaker 1: where it is, it seems impossible. Yeah, yeah, And it

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Speaker 1: was like over that time period, once we figured out

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Speaker 1: the net cannons that you had to restock wild birds

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Speaker 1: that it was nineteen ninety there were three point five

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Speaker 1: million turkeys and then today there's seven million turkeys. Compare

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Speaker 1: that to its lowest point in ninety seven and thirty

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Speaker 1: thousand birds. It's wild that that level of recovery was

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Speaker 1: able to happen, And to put in context, like people

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Speaker 1: think of an imperiled species like African lions or polar bears.

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Speaker 1: Um polar bears, there's twenty five thousand of those left.

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Speaker 1: African lions there's fifty thousand of those left, and at

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Speaker 1: one time there was only thirty thousand wild turkeys, and

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Speaker 1: now the tags are some of the most attainable you know,

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Speaker 1: in the country, driving around the West this this spring,

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Speaker 1: just picking up tags. That's right. Like it's nothing, that's right.

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Speaker 1: We talked to each other in the office here and like,

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Speaker 1: how many tags you've got this year? Six? How many

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Speaker 1: tags you've got this year four? So we talked openly

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Speaker 1: about trying to kill ten turkeys. Yeah, it's wild. That

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Speaker 1: would have been a large percentage of the entire population.

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Speaker 1: I't even doing that back then. It is wild. And

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Speaker 1: I think because I love turkeyanic so much, like a

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Speaker 1: little bit reverse the story and learn about how they

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Speaker 1: got here, because as we as I discussed with Dr

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Speaker 1: Kennemer on the podcast and then afterwards, you know, the

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Speaker 1: worst thing we could all do is forget or go

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Speaker 1: tricky hunting, like that's just the way it's always been,

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Speaker 1: or maybe worse than that, that's the way it's always

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Speaker 1: going to be. Um here is for those of us

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Speaker 1: who want to call it slips conservationists, here is a

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Speaker 1: version of a real and true conservation at work, real

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Speaker 1: wildlife management, some really creative ship going on there to

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Speaker 1: get to get to that many birds but now all

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Speaker 1: I mean every state, but I think Alaska has trouble populations, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty crazy. Yeah. And and not to

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Speaker 1: put a downer on on the ending to this intro,

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Speaker 1: but recently on the meat eator dot com, we covered

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Speaker 1: uh A New Silent Springs what the article was called

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Speaker 1: about how turkey populations are kind of on the way

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Speaker 1: down and some states are noticing that flox are getting

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Speaker 1: smaller and smaller. So, like you said, it's important to

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Speaker 1: recognize that um turkeys aren't unique to or excuse me,

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Speaker 1: what am I trying to stay here? Well not they're

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Speaker 1: not exempt from conservation. Well, they're not in pervous to

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Speaker 1: habitat loss and predation and things like that. And that's

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Speaker 1: if you would ask these early conservations should go and

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Speaker 1: sit with the people who know. They'll tell you that

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Speaker 1: habitat loss was the main was really the main driver

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Speaker 1: of turkeys going away. Forest like deforestation and some of

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Speaker 1: the things we were doing to eliminate the habitat. And

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Speaker 1: that's why you'll you'll go to the end of the

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Speaker 1: TF and it's saved the habitat, save the hunt. But again,

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Speaker 1: like we're still I mean, there's still there's new predators

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Speaker 1: on lots of different landscapes where, um, where they haven't

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Speaker 1: been before. So it's it's still a delicate situation to

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Speaker 1: to to ever return back to thirty thousand turkeys. I

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Speaker 1: highly doubt that we ever do that. But that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that we should sit and rest on our laurels

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Speaker 1: with what we've got, um, because I certainly love hunting

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Speaker 1: turkeys and it's one of my favorite things too. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, um, I'm reviving it after I said I

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Speaker 1: was gonna let it go bringing it back. I think

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Speaker 1: this is a good cap or to your turkey coverage.

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Speaker 1: You think, so I probably won't bring it back again.

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Speaker 1: I probably will move directly into like bears and other

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Speaker 1: things like that. But in fact, next week we're gonna

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Speaker 1: go and talk to someone um all the way in Indonesia.

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Speaker 1: But for this one, it's turkeys. UM. Do you have

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Speaker 1: any other trivia you'd like to add in here, any

399
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: other like facts that people need to know about turkeys?

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. I'm still reeling from not getting

401
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Speaker 1: seminal correct. Yeah, I mean that was an easy one.

402
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Speaker 1: That's embarrassing. I'm a little bearrass for you. Yeah, is

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Speaker 1: this your first This is your first appearance on th

404
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Speaker 1: HC and not no. Mark Kenny and I talked, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well all right this is the tryout still tryout phase,

406
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Speaker 1: not yet a recurring guest. Might be the last, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could be, could be the last. I was like,

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Speaker 1: the easiest one I could have given you. Um, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're being down. I'll just add a little bit to

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Speaker 1: being that the NBTF going down to Edfield, South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: where they're and seeing there the history of the Wild

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Speaker 1: Turkey played out. Um, it's pretty amazing that it included.

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Speaker 1: It was right after I talked to Colonel Tom Kelly,

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Speaker 1: who who you heard on this podcast a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: You go down to their museum and you'll see they

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Speaker 1: have some of his original work there to some of

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Speaker 1: his original manuscripts. One of his original writing desks is

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Speaker 1: all there enshrined in the National Wild Turkey Museum down

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Speaker 1: there in Edgefield. So if you're ever running through Edgefield,

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Speaker 1: South Carolina, go down there. Because I was really lucky

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Speaker 1: to be able to walk around that museum with Dr

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Speaker 1: canamer Post podcast and learn a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: turks um and where these wonderful birds came from. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, when I was there, there was a giant

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Speaker 1: bus of children being taken through the museum and it

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Speaker 1: was kind of like a cool to watch. Canamber stand

427
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: there and watch that and know that he was a

428
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: part of not only bringing turkeys back, but a part

429
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: of an organization that also really gave back to the youth, um,

430
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: young hunters in our world. I think he was proud

431
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: of that, and I could see kind of a little

432
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: glint in his eye watching that all go down. So

433
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: it was fun. Um, it's fun to think about the

434
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: history of turkeys and history recovery. There's a lot more

435
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: you can can read about it. It's a there's a

436
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: lot of it on w TFS website, but you're gonna

437
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: hear a lot more of it coming up right now

438
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: with Dr the Mush already talked about Dr James R.

439
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: Kennemer from Edsfield, South Carolina. Enjoy Dr Kenner, how are you, sir?

440
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm doing wonderful. It's wonderful to be here in Edgefields,

441
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: South Carolina and at the headquarters of the National Turkey Federation.

442
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: I very much feel like this is the mecca for me.

443
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: Is the turkey hunter to come here um and speak

444
00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: to you and and see the turkey art and the

445
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: taxidermy and just kind of feel the history of a

446
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: place like this. It's it's pretty special. Well, it's it's

447
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: one of the kind. You won't go anywhere in the

448
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: world and see the museum or see the history of

449
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: turkey hunting and the conservation of the wild turkey, then

450
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: you would here to the Wild Turkey Center. Yeah, and

451
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: it is. It's it's immense of folks haven't been here.

452
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 1: It's been a couple of years since I've been here.

453
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: I know they built a big shooting center out back

454
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: and they were just doing that here. Which can you

455
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: give give folks an idea about this place in particularly

456
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: if they come for a busit what they might find

457
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: or or just kind of the general idea of the center. Well,

458
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: we have a facility here that's really unique in that

459
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: we've got a little over seven acres that have been

460
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: put together over five different uh periods. We started out

461
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: with the center in one being built right here, and

462
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: we expanded from that. So when you come here, you

463
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: really see a collection of art, of guns of history

464
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: that's here. You've also out an opportunity to see wild

465
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: turkey management, So a lot of the facility is managed now,

466
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: so you can come and we can show you where

467
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: you prescribe burn and you see what it does over

468
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: a period of time, or you can see food plots,

469
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: and then you've got an opportunity to shoot in a

470
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: world class shooting facility that we've got sporting Clay's got

471
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: two courses here, skeet range and trap. So and you know,

472
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: if you're into turkeys and into turkey hunting in the history,

473
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: this is a place to stop in. And we're right

474
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: off twenty not far from Augusta, Georgia, not far um

475
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: And and when it comes to the history of this

476
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: place in the history of turkey hunting turkeys in America,

477
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: I feel like you're probably the pre eminent person to

478
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: talk to um because you've been doing this for so long,

479
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: um since and I've read and talk some folks that

480
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: tell me that around the age of twelve was one

481
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: of the first times you started thinking about being you know,

482
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: turkeys and conservation and getting into the field of study

483
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: in which you've done for the last you know, many decades. Here. Well,

484
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: I was, I was Forcunate when I was into sixth grade,

485
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: to be able to hunt with my dad, who was

486
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: a World War Two veteran and fought with pattent Uh.

487
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: He was able to get us on Fort Benning Military

488
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: Reservation on the Alabama side of the Chattoochee River, and

489
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: I got to watch him call a turkey up. And

490
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: I was into sixth grades. I was twelve years old,

491
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: and I'm I can see that turkey in my mind's eye,

492
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: walking back and forth and then finally committing and walking

493
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: in he killed him. And I said, this is what

494
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: I want to do for a living. And I didn't

495
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 1: have a clue what a living minute that time, but

496
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: and I stayed through the course all the way through

497
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: my career. So been pretty unique, is there. I mean,

498
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: especially at that time in this country, there weren't a

499
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: whole lot of turkeys that I said, we were just discussing.

500
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: I just uh did a podcast with Tom, Colonel Thom Kelly,

501
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: and he did he talked about the same thing, seeing

502
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: his first turkey and understanding what it actually was. And

503
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: at the time there weren't a whole lot of people

504
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: that could call themselves turkey hunters. Well there there wasn't,

505
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: and you didn't have all of the material that you

506
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: can buy now from Camo to what having. My dad

507
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: hunted in army green fatigues. He didn't have a face mask,

508
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: had nobody to really teach him, had a person down

509
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: in uh South Alabama that made turkey calls out of

510
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: lead and uh and so he could get mouth heelppers

511
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and so, you know, because he was extension fish and

512
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: wildlife s pesiers, he got to travel the state and

513
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: I got to grow up hunting in places that were

514
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: only very remote and very few places you go hunt.

515
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: My dad grew up in Sellm, Alabama, and his dad

516
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: was a quail hunter. Uh to my knowledge, Daddy Frank

517
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: never saw a wild turkey in his lifetime. And now

518
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: they got booney crockett deer there and tremendous turkey population,

519
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: so that whole ecology has changed from quail to turkey.

520
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: So you know, really, I was so blessed to be

521
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: able to go see turkeys and hunt there when I

522
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: was a kid, and a lot of people my age

523
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: didn't get today. Well, it's it always strikes me when

524
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: thinking about, you know, my generation or future generations. Wild

525
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: turkeys just kind of seemed to have been there for

526
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: a long time and UM and talking to folks like

527
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: you and others realized that it's generationally it's only been

528
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: one or two that the walte turkey has been is

529
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: proliferated in our country. And it's done, you know, thanks

530
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: to you and and other folks, done very well. But

531
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: the idea that they're just there, I think for for

532
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: the modern hunter needs to be pushed back a little

533
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: bit and to learn how they became, you know, the

534
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: bird that they are today and the populations that they

535
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: are today. Well, there's a lot of people who never

536
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: got to hunt wild turkeys. And it was interesting when

537
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: I moved here in nine in eighty to be at

538
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: the Wild Turkey Center UH taking people out because we

539
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: had a lot of turkeys here at that time, and

540
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: the kids would think, if you know, if I didn't

541
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: get a limit of five every year, I had a

542
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: bad year. You got to understand a lot of people

543
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: never got to see that. I'd love just letting my

544
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: daddy Frank just see one much less hunted. And we

545
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: can't take that for granted because there's a lot of

546
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: threats to the wild turkey today from a habitat UH

547
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: concerns and losing UH management in a lot of places.

548
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: So you know, we have seen the good old years,

549
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: and the data is showing it. Turkey populations are declining

550
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: in certain areas. So we've reached our peak. Yeah, I know,

551
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: we've covered that on our website and some podcasts. That's

552
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: we you know, and not even then they'll be t

553
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: f have seen the boom of turkeys and then switched,

554
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: not switched, but understood that now that the turkey population

555
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: are healthy, wanted to start talking about getting youth involved

556
00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: and really growing the participatory elements of turkey hunting as

557
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: opposed to just just habitat um, which which is this

558
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: organization has done so well for so long. Um really

559
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: in your stead um, So you you became the chief

560
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: conservation officer here or you were involved in the in

561
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: the Turkey Federation in nineteen sixty four, it was that

562
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: your first year. No. I came here in in nineteen eighty.

563
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: Prior to that, for ten years, I was assistant and

564
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: associate professor at Auburn University, teaching wildlife and doing research

565
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: when my students primarily with turkeys, but with other species

566
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: from beaver ponds to uh deer or what have you.

567
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: But when I came in nineteen eighty as director of Research.

568
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: And we were a very small organization at that time,

569
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: I think at twelve thousand members, and uh I was

570
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: hired to come in and start trying to collectively do

571
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: research with all his universities and state agencies around the country,

572
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: and it kind of grew in. As I told our board, Uh,

573
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: if we do research, we can't put a turkey under

574
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: every tree, but we can put a lot of things

575
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: that we can put together about research. But we got

576
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: to do management and expand populations, so we really don't

577
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: have anything to work with. Yeah, well, we go back

578
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: to you know, when you're at Auburn and I just

579
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: read my notes wrong, nacis as far as when you

580
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: started really getting involved in all turkey restoration, Um, take

581
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: us back to that time. How did it feel to

582
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: be interested in that? How did it feel to be

583
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: on a mission to restore the wild turkey? And and

584
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: you know what were your thoughts when you started what

585
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: would be a fifty some year mission to do it? Well?

586
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: I graduated of Auburn and Wildlife Management or what was

587
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: called game and is what it's sixty four and then

588
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: was able to go to Mississippi State to work on

589
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: my master's and doctorate with Dr Dale Larner. He had

590
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: done some early early work at Auburn UH with wild turkeys,

591
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 1: and he was really a mentor for me and how

592
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to get in the Mississippi Delta

593
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: and do some real early work with telemetry trying to

594
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: trap turkeys and how you would catch them and move

595
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: them and do the parious things that we could do.

596
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: And you know, I really, other than I dearly loved

597
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: doing that and being in the woods every day with them,

598
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: get to look at their habits and and learning turkeys.

599
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: I was just obsessed with that. And then it morphed

600
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: in after I finished that to go back to Auburn

601
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: to teach, and then it's just been a wild ride

602
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: ever since. You know, I really didn't sit down and

603
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: think about the mission as much as this was my

604
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: life's work and this is what I wanted to do,

605
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: and it allowed me to get to meet and be

606
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: with people in the wild turkey world that I would

607
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: never have been able to do otherwise. And so I'm

608
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: really blessed the Good Lord gave me that chance. Well,

609
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: in the early years, you know that things are so

610
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: much different and I've I've read stories and talk to

611
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: folks who were, you know, a part of that, and

612
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: I've heard from I heard a story the other day

613
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: from the Turkey research said that when they first started

614
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: capturing while turkeys, they would give him a drug. They

615
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: would put it in some corn. I think you were

616
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: involved in this as well. Put it put the dragons. Yeah,

617
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: put that in some corn. The turkeys would come and

618
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: eat the corn, they would go to sleep. They put

619
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: him in a bag, and this um gentleman was telling

620
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: me that he would go to a bedroom in his

621
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: house and put the turkeys in and close the door,

622
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: and then when they were ready to go and transplant him,

623
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 1: come back and get him. Every once in a while,

624
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: the turkeys would wake up and there be a little commotion.

625
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: So I know that you have lots of stories like

626
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: that that I really think are important for everyone to

627
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: hear and just kind of how gritty it was to

628
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: do what you're doing. So, um, is there anything that

629
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: comes to mind right off that that just kind of

630
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: yeah that I guess one of those would have been

631
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: when we started doing half for Chlora lows and Love It.

632
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: Williams in Florida had perfected the opportunity to do that,

633
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: and so you'd put it in a ha up of

634
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 1: cracked corn and put an ounce of this uh chemical

635
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: call alpha chloro loos and you'd mix it up and

636
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: then put it out in the woods with pre bates.

637
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: So we knew how many birds were coming ahead of time,

638
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: so you were able. I was by myself in the delta,

639
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: which is one of the greatest times of my life

640
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: because I got to see a lot of wildlife every

641
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: day from daylight till dark, and I caught my first

642
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: seven turkeys. I remember there were seven coming to debait

643
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: and I caught all seven. I had some some boxes.

644
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: I put them in some crates and put them in

645
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: my bedroom and during the night you could hear the

646
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: turkey is actually snoring during the night, keeping me awake.

647
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: And it took about twenty four to thirty six hours

648
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: from the wake up. But it allowed you to go

649
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: on and measure them, put your streamers on their wings

650
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: that we could identify them at a distance, or put

651
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: you to limatry equipment on them as well, and so

652
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: you know, you were able to really pioneer how all

653
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: of this had to work out. And the radios that

654
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: we used way back then were big clumsy things that

655
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: hung around your neck. They were like here in a suitcase,

656
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: and being on the Mississippi Delta, we would be listening

657
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: to tow boats coming over the instead of listening to

658
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: the beep of the radio. So, I mean it was very,

659
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: very primitive. But to be able to follow that over

660
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: my career see the technology change and how we can

661
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: do things now that we couldn't do back then, was

662
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: really pretty unique. But uh, the early days were a

663
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: lot harder. We couldn't do the things we want to do,

664
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: But I loved every minute. Yeah, how you know, when

665
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: you're in it like that, you don't realize what could

666
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: be Obviously you're just trying to get done what you

667
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: want to get done. Are there are any other moments

668
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: or things you look back on them that just make

669
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: you chuckle for how wild it might have been trying

670
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: to well, you know, sitting in blind sometimes and trying

671
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: to catch turkeys all a particularly in the fall of

672
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: the year, we were trying to catch some hens with

673
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: broods and you would have plywood blinds with no top

674
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: on them because you're talking about you know, real, real

675
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: hot temperatures and the sun all day long is shining

676
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: in on you, and so you're sitting there with your

677
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: shirt off and and your shoes all trying to sit

678
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: there and try to cool down and watch for turkeys

679
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: to come in. So, you know, those kind of things.

680
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: You look back and I'm like, how did we do that?

681
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, how did we put up with the problem

682
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: with not having four wheel drive and using trucks that

683
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, you couldn't get around like we can today.

684
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: So no, it was it was an adventure. But you

685
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: learned to adapt and you learn to figure out how

686
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: to make it work. And that was good lesson for me.

687
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: And how did you what did you hope to learn

688
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: in those days? How did you approach that learning? You know,

689
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to try to put my my mind in

690
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: the turkey's head and figure out why is he on

691
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: what he's doing? Uh, and particularly and and trapping back then,

692
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: and I watched this through my career. When you had

693
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: state agencies trapping turkeys and moving them, you had certain

694
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: few people that could catch them consistently. And what they

695
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: could do is walk into a site and say, the

696
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: turkeys will come to here, or they'll come to their

697
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: or they won't come to here. And so that was

698
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: my first lesson in trying to figure out what are

699
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: they gonna do, which way are they going, and how's

700
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: the best way to go catch them? And so that

701
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: put me in tune of trying to learn everything I

702
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: could about why they ate, what they ate? Why did

703
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: you go here? And and you know, why did you

704
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: gobble today and you did in gobble yesterday? Kind of

705
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: a deal hunter. If I could figure that out, I

706
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be sitting here talking to you. But that's

707
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: it's just been, you know, and I still have learned

708
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount. But our turkey hunter did spring and

709
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: they put it on me a more than one time,

710
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: and I thought I had it figured out, and you

711
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: never did. It's the magic of it. They're just never

712
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: you know. You wonder if they're too smart or too

713
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: Dumbies don't really really know. So back then, um, as

714
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 1: you're doing your studies, how many states had wild turkeys

715
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: at that time? You know, in the late sixties, well,

716
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: most of the states had had some remnant populations. Of

717
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: course we don't have in Alaska, and they were already

718
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: in a white because they had been carried over from Texas.

719
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure with some of the pineapple people that had

720
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: uh literally stole them and moved them over there, But

721
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: you just had pockets of populations which made it very

722
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: difficult for state agencies to try to transplant them because

723
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: he didn't have many to begin with. You're trying to

724
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: hunt them, but you've also got to expand populations, which

725
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: meant you had a limited resource to go do. And

726
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: that's where we got into Target two thousand and in

727
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: the eighties, which really I think accelerated the restoration of

728
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: the wild turkey all around the country, which, into me

729
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: is is the shining point in my career to be

730
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: part of that. Yeah, I think turget T Towns and

731
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: I want to talk about a good bit here, but

732
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: it strikes me that we should probably return to how

733
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: this problem got to be now. I think the narrative

734
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: on on on this show and and and really I

735
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: think in the honey community of the turn of the

736
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: century was really in market hunting was the time where

737
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: our wildlife was depleted. And we think about buffalo, but

738
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: but I think folks in the honey community understand elk,

739
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: white tail, turkey stucks. We're kind of all depleted in

740
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: similar manners. Can you just quickly give folks the cliff

741
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: notes on, you know, running like how we got to

742
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: where we were, Because there was a time when Ben

743
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: Franklin wanted the wild turkey to be America's the America's bird.

744
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: I hate to say that, but Ben Franklin really never

745
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: said that. Okay, it's it's kind of a I know

746
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: why I tell the short version is he along with

747
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: I think, uh, Jefferson and Monroe, if I remember right, uh,

748
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: we're kind of set up to pick what would be

749
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: our national symbol, and both of them picked the bald eagle.

750
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: He had parting of the Red Sea with Moses, and

751
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: when the wild Turkey didn't come up until later, he

752
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: wrote a letter to his daughter in Los Aere back

753
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: in England and said the wild turkey should have been

754
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: our symbol, but he was after the fact if he'd

755
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: have brought that up to begin with. But legend has

756
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: he wanted to be the wild turkey. So that's not true.

757
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: But legend is going to be here with us, and

758
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: you're not gonna change it. But I think if you

759
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: look at the wild turkey being as resilient as it is,

760
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: it survived only where we couldn't get to him and

761
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: kill him out. And if you look in North Carolina,

762
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: the Rhono Oak River Swamp was part of that. In

763
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: South Carolina it's what's now the Francis Maryon National Forest.

764
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 1: It was very remote. If you go to Alabama, which

765
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: is a mecca where Tom Kelly lived and hunted, they're

766
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: out of Spanish Fort. You had the role of the

767
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: Tensol River Delta that came through there, and so people

768
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: had islands and those turkeys could get on there and survive.

769
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: And so taking those remnant populations and moving them allowed

770
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: us to bring the wild turkey back. But we literally

771
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: around the country if you go look, took them out

772
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: of every state at some point, uh, particularly if people

773
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: had access to them because they were gonna kill him

774
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: for food, our market, hunted whatever. Now that's a that's

775
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: a good way to think of the story, like we've

776
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: kind of we pushed them into these places and then

777
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: folks like you and others teamed up to take them

778
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: from those remnant populations and turn them into what is

779
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: um many millions of turkeys today. So that's a good

780
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: set up for for when you came to the n

781
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: w t F. Like as you said, you're the director

782
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: of research, and there's some really good stories I think

783
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: of how when you came here you kind of led

784
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: those the transplants while turkeys and did some trading from

785
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: state to states. So can you kind of set up

786
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: that time. Yeah. One of the real unique things about

787
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: the restoration of the wild turkey that the n WTF

788
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: played a major, major role was having our n WTF

789
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: Technical Committee, And so when I came here, we had

790
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: people from each state. There might have been a legend

791
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: in their own they may not have worked with the

792
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: state agency, but we changed it up so that every

793
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: turkey project leader from every state, and course all the

794
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: states were really interested in bringing wild turkeys back came

795
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 1: together at our national convention and so we would meet

796
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: for two days and talk about various issues, uh from

797
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: restoration research and this was a high point of bringing

798
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: all these collective minds together and in different situations. We

799
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: had some regional committees like the Northeast Turkey Committee, in

800
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: the Southeast Turkey Committee and others. We created one for

801
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: the West coast, but that was the key to getting

802
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: them all together and identifying the problem. And up to

803
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: that point, everybody was trading something for another state. So

804
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: if you had white tailed ere and you wanted to

805
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: trade it to some other state, then you had to

806
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: trade something they wanted. And we collectively in in their

807
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: mid eighties realized that there wasn't a way to do that,

808
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: and I proposed to the committee and almost got run

809
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 1: out of town on the rail about let's pay replacement

810
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: calls back to the state where they they came from.

811
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: The turkeys are a gift to you, but then uke

812
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: to pay what it colls to catch them or what

813
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: read the restitution value, which we determined over a period

814
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: of time to be five hundred dollars. And the big

815
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: issue with the state agencies was that this will be

816
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: violating the Lacey Act. You're selling birds across state lines.

817
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: And I kept telling them we got legal help, we

818
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: can look at this. You donate the birds, let us

819
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: at the Federation work with the state agencies on either

820
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: side and have one request birds to you directly. So

821
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: we were kind of the middleman, the marketer, and we

822
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: would hold the moneys for the various state agencies. And

823
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: really and truly I didn't realize it at the time,

824
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: but it's a high point of my career to be

825
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: able to get everybody to finally agree to do that.

826
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: And what we were able to do to get Joe Currs,

827
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: who was the chief wildlife in Georgia, to agree that

828
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: we could move birds and he would set it up

829
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: with his director. And so we moved birds from right

830
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: outside of Augusta, George at Thompson, Georgia and took him

831
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: to Tyler, Texas. And we had we had made that altogether.

832
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: And once we did that and flew them on Trammel

833
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: Crow's private airplane over there and turn them loose, then

834
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: everybody said, well it's okay. And so then we were

835
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: up to move in two and three and up to

836
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: four hundred and I think twenty turkeys moved in one

837
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: year between one state and another. And so it allowed

838
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: us to go ahead and finish restoration. If you take

839
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: North Carolina for example, uh Wayne Bailey and some of

840
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: his people that were working with him, they were trapping

841
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: in state, but they had limited populations. As I said

842
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: a minute ago, by helping here, South Carolina would donate

843
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: birds to them, and so they would trap them on

844
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: places where you couldn't hunt in South Carolina, take them

845
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: to the boarder, transfer them over to North Carolina who

846
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: turned them loose. The money is that they paid for

847
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: the five uh per bird came back to the state

848
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 1: of South Carolina and they used it to buy land

849
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: that would be in public hunting. So it was a

850
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: win win for both states. So there's a tremendous amount

851
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: of matching moneys that could go with pr dollars to

852
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: buy public land on the states that donated to turkeys,

853
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,479
Speaker 1: and I was one of the big states that really

854
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: at the time they were able to buy land because

855
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: it was during the farming crisis of the eighties and

856
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: early nineties. For forty dollars an acre, they could buy

857
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: up some of this land that was ravines where they

858
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 1: couldn't farm, and so the state was able to move

859
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: turkeys to Texas and and really bring it back. So

860
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: it was a win all the way around. We had

861
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: a lot of good habitat turkey restoration. And if you

862
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: look at North Carolina, they accomplished their restoration in ten years,

863
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: which it took South Carolina almost thirty because they were

864
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: working out the Frances maryon moving turkeys all around the state.

865
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: It's just amazing, you know, one that we take this

866
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: kind of activity for granted, but too that it was

867
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: going on in the scale that it was um And

868
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: I read about the example in the East Texas that

869
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: you speak of, where they're trading you know, white tail

870
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: deer and redfish finger links for turkeys, and it was

871
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: astounding to me to think of of the like the

872
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: grit and the on the ground worth that you had

873
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: to do to just to get this, To get the

874
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: idea that this would be okay to do this is

875
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: amazing to me. Well, it really was. And getting over

876
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: that hurdle, you know, making everybody because of the buying

877
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: and selling, and I used to really cringe every time

878
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: somebody says, well, we're gonna sell you some turkeys. No

879
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: you're not. You're given the turkeys. We're just gonna pay

880
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: you the restitution. But once everybody bought into it, the

881
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: state agencies deserve all the credit. They're the ones that

882
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: made it happen. We were just the facilitator. We held

883
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: the money's and it's one of the state UH directors

884
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: told me if we don't, if you don't hold the

885
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: money and tell me when I can spend it to

886
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: buy my land, that the General Assembly will take that

887
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: money and they'll spend it somewhere else. So we were

888
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 1: able to hold the dollars till they told us. And

889
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: so it really was when for all the where you

890
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: know history to be proud of um and not so

891
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: and are not so distant past? Do you feel like

892
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: during that time you guys had a you know, you

893
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: were really effective in we're gonna take these turkeys, this

894
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: is why we're picking these turkeys, and this is where

895
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna take them. Um. I think talk people through

896
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: that idea how you would choose, you know, you we

897
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: we talked about how you would would go to rendom populations.

898
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: But how was it just whoever wanted turkeys got them

899
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: or was there a more strategic kind of Well that

900
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: that's an interesting question really being the uh is you

901
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: would imagine going to a state where you had a

902
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: rich legislator or somebody that won't need turkeys on their land,

903
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 1: they would have been the ones to say, look, if

904
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: we get birds, they need to go to my place.

905
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: And what the state agencies did was come up with

906
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: the criteria and they would look at I mean landowners

907
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: can we put together and a lot of them use

908
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: ten thousand acres as a block, and so getting their

909
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: everybody to agree that we will protect them for five

910
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: years and at the end of five years, if we

911
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,959
Speaker 1: want to come trap them, we can move them somewhere else.

912
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: So they set up a criteria that would rank the

913
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: number one places they could go to, and then you

914
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 1: work down that list. And so Target two thousand was

915
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: set to finish in the year two thousand twenty thousand.

916
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: But anyway, it turned out that um that we didn't

917
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: quite make it, but we got most of it done

918
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: by that time, but using the priority system to make

919
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: sure we got it done. And I think that's that's

920
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: Is there a time where, um, I think in the

921
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: inswer this, but a time where you would shift too,

922
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: because I think Target two thousand we'll talk about here

923
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: in a second. Is it really it's it's it's a

924
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: genius idea, and it's turned out to be one of

925
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: the more successful conservation programs. Are ideals that that we've had.

926
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 1: But was there a time where it was it went

927
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: from shifted from just moving turkeys around and get populations

928
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: in place to really just focusing on habitat or was

929
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: it was were those things happening in parallels they were

930
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: happening in parallel. I think it made an inciny for

931
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: the States in particular to try to work on managing

932
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: these populations once they got to establish. So what can

933
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: we do to enhance the opportunities, whether it's burning or

934
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: food plots or timber thinning or whatever it happened to be.

935
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: So they were kind of going hand in hand, and

936
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, as we finished at the end, we we

937
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: all realized that, you know, we've accomplished a great goal,

938
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: but now what's the next thing going to be? And

939
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: and so that's kind of where we are today and

940
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: trying to look at all the threats to the wild

941
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: turkey in particularly with declining populations in these areas like

942
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: we mentioned, and you know, you're looking at a lot

943
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: of different things that to me or or something that's

944
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: of a concern to me debating that's going on for

945
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: turkeys and a lot of other species. We got technology

946
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: now and we can shoot turkeys a lot further out

947
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: than we used to. There's a finite limit to how

948
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: much of this you can do with existing population. So

949
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not anti having, you know, good equipment,

950
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: but I think you can take it to an extreme

951
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: to sun Yeah, So for for getting the target tooth

952
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: thousand is essentially, uh, you got sought to restore all

953
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: wild turkeys to their suitable habitats by the year two thousand. Yeah,

954
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: our goal was every suitable habitat would be filled with

955
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: wild turkeys as much as we could in North America.

956
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: Of course, primarily we were focusing on the United States,

957
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 1: but parts of Canada. We have moved turkeys into Ontario,

958
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: which has got a very good turkey population. There's other

959
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: areas where turkeys had moved in and Canada, and of

960
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: course we've worked in Mexico as well. So, um, how

961
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: did that Who came up with the idea for Turkey thousand? Well,

962
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: it was the staff here at the end, wtf. You know,

963
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: we wanted something that was catchy, that would we could

964
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: say and you know, when you got down to it,

965
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: with a number of different names, we we just kind

966
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: of decided among the senior staff that target two thousand

967
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: would be a catchy thing and that you know, here's

968
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: our target, here's the early nineties. Unless set our goal

969
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: and everybody bought into that's awesome. Did you guys, did

970
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: you feel personally at the time how big an effect

971
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 1: that would have on hunting and just not whild turkeys,

972
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: just like the hunting culture, you know, the industry, the

973
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: companies that be making products. That's just the proliferation of

974
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: media things of that nature. When you're well, I guess

975
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: it had to be perfectly honest with the I was

976
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 1: so busy trying to do the job. I didn't think

977
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: about that because you know, the concern that I had

978
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: and moving and keeping up with the books on all

979
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: of this, and we had a staff to help do

980
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: that that we wouldn't make a mistake because if we

981
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: ended up and didn't have a letter of transmittle or

982
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: the dollars got confused used and we were audited by

983
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: the federal gunman inn our because they said you were

984
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: double dipping with the moneys, and we survived that it

985
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: was not illegal. So quite honestly, I had no idea

986
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: what he was gonna do, and and just let's get

987
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: it done, and and we were all working so hard

988
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: we never thought about it. Yeah, what I mean, it's

989
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's this is a grand idea. It's

990
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: it's like that's a big undertaking as well, and you know,

991
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: like a broader reaching thing with goal to have what

992
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: what do you remember some of the big challenges, you know,

993
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: even the broader challenges than even maybe some of the

994
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: hardest days you know, and getting there, well, I think

995
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: getting everybody on the same page was the hardest part

996
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: of the early days with Joe uh he saw the

997
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: wisdom and he said, I can buy land and and

998
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 1: put in public hunting in Georgia, and this will be

999
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: a way to go do that. He had that had

1000
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: that vision, but a lot of people were extremely reluctant.

1001
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: Know it's number one if we start really trapping turkeys,

1002
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: some of the state agents that says it. You know,

1003
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go to work now and really

1004
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: get out in the field and get up at four

1005
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: in the morning and work hard to catch turkeys. So

1006
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: those were the more frustrating things for me, is trying

1007
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: to get everybody behind it all and moving ahead. And

1008
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: then once we hit critical mass, it all kind of

1009
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: came together and then it was just a matter of

1010
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: collectively figuring out where the turkeys needed to go. Because

1011
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: I had a demand more than I had turkeys to

1012
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: go get and so it put me in a political

1013
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: nightmare of trying to who am I gonna try to

1014
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: help the most, and so uh, that was a big

1015
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: challenge for me. Ben, Yeah, I mean one point three

1016
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: million turkeys in nineteen seventy three to seven million turkeys today,

1017
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: that's that's unbelievable. Well, if we hadn't done what we did,

1018
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: I think he would all would have been accomplished down

1019
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: the road one way or another. But the fact that

1020
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: we had the group of people from the Tech Committee

1021
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: and the state agencies collectively putting their brain trust together

1022
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: to go out here and do this. You've got a

1023
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: tremendous number of people and kids included getting to hunt

1024
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: turkeys right now that it would have been down the

1025
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: road before they would have had that opportunity. So that

1026
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: played a part in that to me is as I

1027
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: said early, one of the highlights in my career. Yeah,

1028
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: as well as well it should be and and there's

1029
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: guys like me run around chasing turkeys that should be

1030
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: thankful for that work, and I think are but being

1031
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: aware of an idea like Target tho thousand and the

1032
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: fact that it worked at the level that it did

1033
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: and continue to work. But again we still face challenges.

1034
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't um the work that was done.

1035
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 1: Like you said, when when do you really feel like

1036
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: that was achieved? Um, because we've already kind of touched

1037
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: on the fact that populations, you know, I would say,

1038
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: skyrocketed and then have have leveled out and started to

1039
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: wane in recent years. UM. I'm sure, as I'm sure

1040
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: it'll be cyclical. But but when did you really feel

1041
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: that that had crusted? And I think around two thousand

1042
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: and five would have probably been about when we realized that,

1043
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, we've about done all we can go do.

1044
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: We might do a little moving here there, but we're

1045
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: not gonna make a big difference in populations one way

1046
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: or another. And and of course looking at at some

1047
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: of the prime habitats, particularly where turkeys would have to

1048
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: winter in some of the colder regions, and knowing that

1049
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: people are gonna take that land over and make it

1050
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: into summer homes or what have you. Um, that was

1051
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: gonna be a real challenge to see if we can

1052
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: maintain the turkeys over that period of time. So that

1053
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: last fifteen years of my career doing that was trying

1054
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: to work to make sure we can save the habitat

1055
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: and protect them so we can maintain those populations down

1056
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: the road and get other hunters involved, because that's a

1057
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: big focus for the n WTF and we have been

1058
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: working on that for a number of years. Yeah, I

1059
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: think it cons very space. It's always we always, everyone

1060
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: has very much advised this organization for that shift. You know,

1061
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: let's get turkeys out there, Let's make sure the habitat

1062
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: is stable, Let's make sure the habitat is valued. And

1063
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: then once we feel like we've crested that hill, we're

1064
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: going to add to it by saying we want more

1065
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: youth hunters. We want more people out there caring about

1066
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: the resource um and pursuing the resource like we have

1067
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: all done. I think that's that's widely considered one of

1068
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: the greatest conservation kind of pivots that any organization has done.

1069
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: That's at least that's what I feel about it. All right,

1070
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: I think you're right, it's uh. The Federation played a

1071
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: major role in that. And then I think we'll stay

1072
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 1: down the road trying to maintain that we will have

1073
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: this for generations to come. You know, the goal I

1074
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: had as I started out with all this is to

1075
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: make sure that we keep hunting relevant for the next

1076
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: two hundred years. And we've got to do that. If

1077
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: we're going to maintain hunting because of the threats we've

1078
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: got against it, plus the eight percent of the country

1079
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't hunt but will tolerate the fact we do

1080
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: get to hunt. And there's ten percent of us so

1081
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,479
Speaker 1: that they're going to be dying the wool and gonna

1082
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: do it to our dying day, and another ten percent

1083
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: that hates everything we do. And so you're looking at

1084
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: gun issues and all the things that go with that. Uh,

1085
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: that that's a major concern. Is so we had a

1086
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: we ran an article on the meat either dot com

1087
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: recently talking about turkey populations currently and what's what's happening

1088
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: with Can you give people just an overview of of

1089
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: some of the more negative aspects of just like recent

1090
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: population trends. Well, I know in Arkansas it's probably a

1091
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: good example that I know of that there. I don't

1092
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: I don't have the numbers right in front of me,

1093
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: but they've declined about fift in the number of birds

1094
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: that they've been harvested in the spring. And we were

1095
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: very involved working with some of their early people about

1096
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: expanding populations in Arkansas. Part of it was in the

1097
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: early days that, uh, there was too much indiscriminate hunting,

1098
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: and so the hunting clubs were killing these turkeys and

1099
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,919
Speaker 1: hauling them out. And once the hunting clubs were really

1100
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: controlled to the point where you're not going to be

1101
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 1: able to do that, the turkeys started responding and coming back.

1102
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: But if you look at it now, that they're kill

1103
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: is dramatically way less in what has been in the past. Uh,

1104
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: some of the other states had just been kind of

1105
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: a negative deal just a little at the time. South

1106
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 1: Carolina is a good example. They just changed some of

1107
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: the regulations here in the state to reduce the bag

1108
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: limit and the amount of days that you've got into

1109
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: season because we're putting more pressure on the population than

1110
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: we're getting recruitment back to fill it in. How how

1111
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: do you view that balance now after so many years

1112
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: of doing this, because I mean, I think that's what

1113
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: me as a hunter and the modern generation trying to

1114
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: understand the resource and the balance of the resource and

1115
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: and really treat it like resource um not to not

1116
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: to overuse it, etcetera. How do you see that after

1117
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: so many years of doing this. Well, it's a good

1118
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: question and it's kind of hard to answer, really, being

1119
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: but when our state chapter here in South Carolina asked

1120
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: me to go to the Senate here in South Carolina

1121
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: and testify about my career. And you've got a number

1122
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: of people who wanted to keep the bag limit at five.

1123
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: They did reduce it to three, and then expanded the

1124
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: season a couple of years ago to be fifty two

1125
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: total days in the spring, and the department had enough

1126
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: data to show that we're killing more than we're getting

1127
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: into recruitment, and several of the senators that are on there, uh,

1128
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about but my hunting club where I hunt

1129
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: is very large, and I have plenty of turkeys, And

1130
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: I said, what, you can't deal with it like that.

1131
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: You gotta deal with what the average hunter has got

1132
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,959
Speaker 1: to deal with around the country. And I think we've

1133
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: been spoiled and having turkey hunting so good so long

1134
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: that people are not wanting to recognize. We can't keep

1135
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: the pressure on it. And you gotta back off, because

1136
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: as I told us in it, you can pay me now,

1137
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: you can pay me later. You can let people go hunting,

1138
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: go out a number of days and not here turkeys,

1139
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: or we can restrict the number, cut back on the

1140
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: Only thing you can control is that the days you

1141
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: hunt and what you bag. Limit is whether we can't

1142
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: control the habitat to a degree we can't control statewide.

1143
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,919
Speaker 1: So you know, people have got to understand we can't

1144
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: take it for granted, because if we do, we're gonna

1145
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: lose it. Yeah. Yeah, I was just spend some time

1146
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: in North Carolina here the last couple of weeks and

1147
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: talking about Sunday hunting laws. They're still dealing with a

1148
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: lot of blue laws there um as well as I

1149
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: mean when I I when I was coming up, there

1150
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: were some places we would turkey on where you can

1151
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: only huntil noon, you know as well. So how do

1152
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: you feel about those kind of restrictions and how they

1153
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: play a part. And we certainly hear hunters complaining about

1154
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 1: those things, and some people accept them and like them

1155
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: as additional ways to do it. Well, you know, I

1156
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: go to church every Sunday. I enjoyed doing that, and

1157
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: I feel that it's my role to have to go

1158
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: to church and and worship the Lord. But I don't

1159
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: think it's my job to keep people from going hunting

1160
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: if they want to hunt on Sunday mornings, particularly if

1161
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: they don't have an opportunity to hunt any other time.

1162
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: We have no data anywhere to show that half day

1163
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: hunting and I promoted this all the way through my

1164
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: career has had any effect on populations. And Wayne Bailey

1165
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: was one of the ones that came up with it,

1166
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, we gotta give the turkeys

1167
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: arrest in the afternoon, and we gotta do all those things.

1168
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: Data is shown from our research that that's not the

1169
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: case at all. So we can't restrict the amount of

1170
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: hunting that we have in the daylight because that keeps

1171
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: kids that can go turkey out and after school, like

1172
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: a lot of them could do in some of the states.

1173
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: So I don't see the restriction on Sunday hunting versus

1174
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: afternoon hunting where you can't do that. That's there's no

1175
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: data for that. The bag limits a different deal because

1176
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: we know that probably of the turkeys are killed, but

1177
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: timbercent of the hunters, and so they're the one just

1178
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: gonna go out in and kill a number. The only

1179
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: way you can reflect that beyond the illegal kill is

1180
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: to restrict the number it's taken. So we need to

1181
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: give people an opportunity, particularly those that are blue collar

1182
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: workers and people that don't get a chance to go

1183
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: and hunt every day. They can only do it on

1184
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: the weekends or in the afternoons after they get off

1185
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 1: their shift. So we can't we can't keep that from happening.

1186
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: That's that's huge. And turkeys, I think I feel like

1187
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: for what they are, you know, some people if I've

1188
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: heard some people called big game, I don't know. Uh,

1189
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: we can have have that conversation, as samanthes at some level.

1190
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: But it's the most interactive hunting I believe you can do,

1191
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: and it's accessible. You know, I just did at about

1192
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: four different states this year and it was all over

1193
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: the counter, all public land that you know, As you said,

1194
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: the bag limits vary from state to state, which I

1195
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: think is both good and it can be bad for

1196
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: a turkey. I'm trying to understand the tapestry of of

1197
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, kind of how it's managed from each state level.

1198
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: But it's one of the more accessible things as this

1199
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: organization you said correctly, it's one of the things that

1200
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: youth hunters can can really get into early, just because

1201
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: of the because of what the bird is, because of

1202
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: how interactive it is. Um. I really do believe it's

1203
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: kind of a gateway to other types of hunting. Um

1204
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: for sure. Um So how do you think about, you know,

1205
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: getting young people into turkey hunting, how successful we've been

1206
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: in doing that, and how much of a bridge I

1207
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: feel turkey hunting is for for every other type. Well,

1208
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: I think it's important to get them out. I think

1209
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: the first thing to do is not make it hard

1210
01:05:57,320 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: on them and take them in the woods and that

1211
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: I'm just enjoy what's out there and understand, and particularly

1212
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: to a social type of hunt like a dove hunt

1213
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: or something where you can get them together and I'll

1214
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: make it hard. Uh. One thing you don't want to do,

1215
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: and I've watched this in my career where you you

1216
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: don't want the kid to have a bad experience. You

1217
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: don't want to put them in a deer stand freezing

1218
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: to death because they're gonna get to the point they

1219
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: won't do that. Uh. It didn't matter in my case.

1220
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: I was gonna go regardless any care. And I've never

1221
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: been a hunting I didn't enjoy the day if it

1222
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: rained or coal or whatever. But I think getting the

1223
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 1: kids involved and mentoring those I have more fun. Taking

1224
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: somebody hunting now and let them do the sheeting or

1225
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: let them at least hear what's going on and explain

1226
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: some of the things we're talking about here is important.

1227
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: And the more we can do that and get them

1228
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: grassroots out on the ground as well as bring some

1229
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: of the hunters back in that we've lost. It's true.

1230
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: And like I said that, my boss, Steve Vernella, who

1231
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: is hunted many a thing around the world, said when

1232
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: he retires, he's he'll tell his wife, you can have

1233
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: the rest of the season, the rest of the year,

1234
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 1: I'll do whatever you want. But in the springtime, you're

1235
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: come with me. We're going to turkey hunt. I'm I'm

1236
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: with Steve. I am too, um because it's it's there

1237
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: in the Western United States and around the country, little bit.

1238
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes the turkey gets maligned. Sometimes it gets gets called,

1239
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: um stupid. I'm sure you would disagree with that, oh absolutely.

1240
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: And and you know I got stupid in the sense

1241
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: that small brain, you know, not stupid, isn't well, their

1242
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: brains about the size of a peanut. But you know,

1243
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: one thing he doesn't though, is what he's gonna do next,

1244
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: and that keeps him alive in a lot of cases.

1245
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: But the fact that where they're hunted and where they're

1246
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 1: out into the wild where there's a predator draft from

1247
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: they figure out that's a lump against that tree that

1248
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: shouldn't be there, and so I'm not gonna hang around. Unfortunately,

1249
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: We've got a lot of places where and we helped

1250
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: move the birds from Virginia to Long Island and brought

1251
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: turkeys back there that you know, we were having a

1252
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: season two hundred years after they were eliminated. But the

1253
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 1: turkeys were protected to the point and they weren't hunted.

1254
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: And so those turkeys they come up in people's yards

1255
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: and they get on top of their houses or what

1256
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: have you. And so the turkey is my land because

1257
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: they've been trained to do that. And in fact, if

1258
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: you put them in the wild, event they're not they

1259
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,760
Speaker 1: don't do calculus, but they know when some I'm not right,

1260
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: and I'm not waiting around to figure it out. Yeah.

1261
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 1: I heard Michael Waddell recently was saying that he just

1262
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,600
Speaker 1: thinks turkeys they're too dumb for their own good. I mean,

1263
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: they just don't he said, They just you don't think

1264
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: they have any memory. He thinks they just bounce around

1265
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: from place to place. They don't really know where they're going.

1266
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 1: Or where they came from. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but

1267
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: I've heard that from other people in the in the past,

1268
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 1: and my experience can seem like that. But it often

1269
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: seems like they're the smartest thing with two legs. Um, well,

1270
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 1: you've got to also understand their program to certain things,

1271
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 1: whether it's the males fighting among themselves. Why you've got

1272
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 1: several turkeys together and you kill one, the other one

1273
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: jumps on him, you gotta understand that no different than

1274
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 1: the white tailed dear. Those bucks are in constant fight

1275
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 1: with each other to set up dominance. Turkeys are in

1276
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: the same boat. So if you you want to take

1277
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: that program and play with it, yeah, you can call

1278
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: him done because he's doing what he's programmed to go do.

1279
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: He's also programmed to gobblin, let the hens come to him,

1280
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: and when they get hung up and don't come in,

1281
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: he's doing what he's supposed to do. So he's not

1282
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: stupid in one sense. But if you can play the

1283
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: deco or part of it, and I'll hunted with Michael,

1284
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: and I know exactly where he can do, and he's

1285
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: a tremendous turkey owner. He can make them do things

1286
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't believe a turkey would do. But he's playing

1287
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: to their program of what they do, and that there

1288
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,720
Speaker 1: in aggression. I'm going to show you a fan and

1289
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: they're gonna come to me and you kill them. So

1290
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: they're not stupid, they're they're really programmed to be alert

1291
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 1: and and get away. Yeah, what's your you know what?

1292
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: After when you started earlier in the conversation talking about

1293
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: trying to get into the mind of the turkey hunter

1294
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 1: or at the turkey, and we talked about Tom Kelly

1295
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: getting into the mind of the turkey hunter better than anyone. Um,

1296
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 1: what what could you tell people? Because lately I've had

1297
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: the most successful and you know, becoming I think a

1298
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: better turkey hunter by trying to think, where's this turkey

1299
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: want to be? What's it want to be doing? How

1300
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: can I how can I make the coersion like less

1301
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: than the coersion? Let's get get into place where the

1302
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 1: turkey wants to be. He's gonna want to come to

1303
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 1: me anyway, even if I have a terrible caller and

1304
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: I can't convince him of much. Well, how do you

1305
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 1: think about those things when you're turcky in? Well, I

1306
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 1: guess I'm kind of in a different him because of

1307
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: being as old as I him. And I killed my

1308
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 1: uh turkey for the last sixty one year. So I've

1309
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: had a good, good run at it, and I've been

1310
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: buffalo a bunch of times. But the thing that that

1311
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: really means the most to me now, I've always wanted

1312
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: to make it fair Chase. I wanted, like I mentioned

1313
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: on the thing with Tom Kelly earlier, UM, I want

1314
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: to be able to match wits with a turkey. And

1315
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: if I came out with him to where I want

1316
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: him to do what he needs to do, then then

1317
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 1: the hunt it's not there. And I hunted with I

1318
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 1: don't use the decoy. Um, I've got some and I've

1319
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: hunted with him when we were filming. I shoot an

1320
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: over and undershotgun. Is only about five percent of us

1321
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: that do that. So I want to I want to

1322
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: match wits with a turkey as he is. I want

1323
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: to pick out where I think he's going. I want

1324
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: to set up on the right place and and making

1325
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 1: sure that I can be where I can see and

1326
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: do and I guess at the end of the day.

1327
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 1: And it really has come home to me the last

1328
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 1: couple of years. Turkey hunting. Is I near the end

1329
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: of this whole life? Um to know I was in

1330
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: the presence of the turkey makes a hunt for me.

1331
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: If I can get out there and hear one, God

1332
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: will know he's somewhere close, It's really made my hunt.

1333
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: If I can call to him and he answers me,

1334
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: then that's the next level. And if I can kill him,

1335
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 1: then that's a bonus. So you know, I think we're

1336
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: so caught up in the kill and not in the

1337
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: experience and being able to enjoy the morning matching Wits

1338
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: were one of the greatest game birds in the world

1339
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: on his terms and playing in his home because he

1340
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 1: knows every tree all is there. And if I can

1341
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: outwit him and kill him, then I've I've had really

1342
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,560
Speaker 1: the utopian too many times I think we just I

1343
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: gotta kill my five and then I'm done. However it

1344
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 1: takes to do it. That's not my game. How would

1345
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 1: you you know, knowing that, how would you describe your

1346
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 1: relationship with the turkey and both killing it and preserving it,

1347
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:10,320
Speaker 1: and how all that has gone in your lifetime. I

1348
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 1: guess the hardest thing is when you hunt a turkey

1349
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: and and you kill him or and watched him as

1350
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: you were hunting that day in the full strut or goblin,

1351
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: and know when you had him drumming at that close

1352
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:28,679
Speaker 1: and then taking that bird, and then having to clean

1353
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: him when I got through with him, because I don't

1354
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: waste any of it, whether I keep him whole or

1355
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: best him out and save the legs. Uh. To look

1356
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: at a magnificent creature that I've killed that I've got

1357
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 1: to now clean because I got a lot of respect

1358
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 1: for the wild turkey and what it's meant to this

1359
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: country and to me personally and to my family and

1360
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: my friends. It's given me an opportunity to do things

1361
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: that I would never have been able to do in

1362
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 1: the wild turkey brought it back. So I got utmost

1363
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: respect for a wild turkey as do I and I don't.

1364
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: I can never really explain, other than to point people

1365
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: to The Tenth Legion and other other works similar to it,

1366
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: never really explain what drew me to it other over

1367
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: other things, or why it was such a you know,

1368
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 1: always I've I've tried in the past. It's the time

1369
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: of year, it's the new life, It's it's the gobble,

1370
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: it's that sound bouncing off the timber bouncing over the

1371
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: planes to me and me being able to have a

1372
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: conversation with a dinosaur that sleeps in trees it's eating.

1373
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: I don't know that I'll ever be able to truly

1374
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 1: get the words out that the feeling of, you know,

1375
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: he's standing over at Turkey just shot or calling one

1376
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: into a deco, and I don't I'm not sure I'll

1377
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: ever be able to do it, though I think my

1378
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 1: job is at the talks. I'll have to keep trying. Well.

1379
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a spirit of the deal. And

1380
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: and no one you've had that opportunity to be, as

1381
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,639
Speaker 1: I said, in their presence and being around them, because

1382
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: I think think of all the people that didn't get

1383
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 1: to see it, uh over the years and when they

1384
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: were gone. And you know, my goal it was to

1385
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 1: make sure that we had my grandkids get the same

1386
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: opportunity to to go see the wild Turkey and to

1387
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: go hone him if they want to, if not, go

1388
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 1: see them. Yeah, that's for sure. Is there any Yeah,

1389
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: as you look into the future, um, knowing what you

1390
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 1: know now, is there any feeling, um like a foreboding

1391
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 1: feeling I've I know you talked about and other conversations

1392
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,759
Speaker 1: that we can be our own worst enemy at times.

1393
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: Do you have a you know, as you you're now

1394
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: retired and you move onto that portion of your life,

1395
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,800
Speaker 1: it's a foreboding feeling about the future for any any

1396
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:44,759
Speaker 1: particular reason, or how do you how do you feel

1397
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: about where we're headed? Well, I think in this human nature,

1398
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:53,480
Speaker 1: trying to make the kill easier, trying with all the equipment.

1399
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 1: I've got, the better shell, it'll shoot seventy five yards

1400
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: or a hundred yards, you'll get beyond the hang up ring.

1401
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: Uh debating issue we talked about earlier, where we're taking

1402
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: I think an opportunity to make less than fair chase

1403
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: into this, and we're bringing up a generation of kids that,

1404
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 1: uh think that maybe killing a deer is gonna be

1405
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: where I can be on a bait pile of corn

1406
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 1: and think that's hunting, which to me is not. It

1407
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 1: may be killing that to manage the population, but it's

1408
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 1: not a hunt per se. And so it really bothers

1409
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 1: me that we've gotten so technology with equipment and all

1410
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: the things that you can go do with trail cams,

1411
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: you name it. You know, we know what time they're

1412
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: coming to the bait, we know what time they're gonna

1413
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:45,560
Speaker 1: be there. Uh, that's a fue voting thing for me,

1414
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: that we're losing the essence of the hunt itself. And

1415
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: I hope we don't do that, and I hope the

1416
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: generations to come get to do what Tom Kelly and

1417
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: I've been able to do is go match wits with

1418
01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: him one oh one. And we don't have all of

1419
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 1: the equipment, but we do have better shelves, we have

1420
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 1: better guns, and I don't want to put that down.

1421
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: Is i'mn ti you know, having the equipment because the

1422
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: boots we got today away better they were when I

1423
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 1: was coming through, and and the clothes that you wear,

1424
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: so you know there there's a limit and hold it

1425
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: in perspective. Yeah, I know it's a good perspective. And

1426
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 1: I always this question I asked, and I feel like

1427
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: I've got my own answers, and I'm sure they'll change

1428
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: over time. But what do you think is in the

1429
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: hunting sense fair to the Turkey? Like how would you

1430
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 1: line that out? How? How what's fair in the in

1431
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:37,519
Speaker 1: for the Turkey? And what's fair for you? Like, how

1432
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: do you you know we use the word fair a lot,

1433
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 1: but how would you kind of Well, I think from

1434
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,639
Speaker 1: the fair standpoint, having the wild turkey in his element,

1435
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 1: being able to go match wits with him one on one,

1436
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 1: trying to use your call in or your woodsmanship, knowing

1437
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,120
Speaker 1: the land to be able to hunt that turkey is

1438
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: fair for him and fair for us. And we know

1439
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:07,919
Speaker 1: that we've got a uh while turkeys, we got gobblers

1440
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: that can make twenty to thirty hens at a time anyway,

1441
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 1: so we we've got a surplus of birds that we

1442
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,680
Speaker 1: can go harvest and take out that population and not

1443
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: affect it. So I think as long as we keep

1444
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: it one on one and play in that game. So

1445
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,599
Speaker 1: we're matching wits and trying to figure out what he's

1446
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: gonna do. And I hate to thank the number of

1447
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: nights I've laid in bed thinking about and now I

1448
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: know where he is and he's gonna do this, and

1449
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 1: he's up there asleep. He has no clue what he's

1450
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 1: gonna do the next morning. So but we gotta play

1451
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: with his set of rules, on his terms, on his ground,

1452
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: and that's what it's all about. Well, we should tell

1453
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:50,759
Speaker 1: some turkey stories. You have, any good Colonel Tim Kelly's

1454
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: turkey stories for these are our r Wayne Bailey or

1455
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,679
Speaker 1: any of those legends. And at least in my mind. Well,

1456
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 1: one of the hunts that that that I remember the

1457
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: most was hunting with Wally Straw, the astronaut. We were

1458
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 1: hunting in Colorado. Uh he had killed one turkey, but

1459
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 1: this was right when the right stuff had come out,

1460
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 1: and he was on our Research Foundation board his chair

1461
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: and invited me to come out in turkey hunt with him.

1462
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 1: And we were on a hunt up in some of

1463
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 1: the brush country out of out of Denver, and he

1464
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: had on a a rain slicker that was hitting all

1465
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 1: the old brush and was rattling, and I finally took

1466
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 1: it away from him. I said, Wally, we can't, we

1467
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,560
Speaker 1: can't do this, and you do what you're doing. And

1468
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,000
Speaker 1: we were chasing the goblet was with some hens and

1469
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 1: they were going over a little valleys and and I said,

1470
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: if we will hurry and let me have you coat,

1471
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: we can get around and I think I can get

1472
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 1: us to where they are. And so we did and

1473
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 1: I called in. The turkeys were thirty yards right over ride.

1474
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: So I just fell down on the ground and I

1475
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 1: had my slate in my hand, and so I'm laying

1476
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:04,799
Speaker 1: there like a log, and Wally's sitting behind me against

1477
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 1: a tree, and I could see him, but I couldn't

1478
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: see the turkey. And it turned out he was two

1479
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: gobblers and some hens, and they walked up and one

1480
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 1: of the hens apparently was sitting right over me, looking down.

1481
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,639
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at Wally as the gobblers were walking

1482
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: back and forth in full strut, and he's had just

1483
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: been with the n a A as I am the

1484
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 1: n are A doing a lot of ads. And I

1485
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,679
Speaker 1: could see him as he came by, and he got

1486
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 1: to me and picked the gun up and go over

1487
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 1: me and put it back down and follow the turkey,

1488
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:40,040
Speaker 1: and finally the turkey got off to one side. He

1489
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: shot and killed it, and I jumped up to take

1490
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 1: off to make sure the bird was down. And then

1491
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I may get shot again if the birds up.

1492
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 1: But while he made a great shot, he killed it,

1493
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: and and we sat on the ridge and reminisced about

1494
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 1: that and and had the opportunity to talk about the

1495
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: space programs and all the things. He went with it. Man,

1496
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 1: I got we could talk about hunts like that from

1497
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: until next week. But uh, that's one. It really sticks

1498
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 1: out in my mind and the one with my dad,

1499
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 1: and and both my daughter and my son. I can

1500
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 1: remember their turkeys and that I've been bored to me

1501
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 1: that when they kill them, and I can see it

1502
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 1: in my mind's eye than any hunt I've ever been on.

1503
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 1: So how yeah, I mean, I think that's a good

1504
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 1: thing to talk about with your with your children. How

1505
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 1: how have they taken to turkeys and turkey hunting and

1506
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 1: not just you know, not just the hunting of them,

1507
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 1: but the idea of the animal and in those types

1508
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:37,560
Speaker 1: of things, well, they had the opportunity to get immersed

1509
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: in it. My son has killed a number of turkeys

1510
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 1: with me, and of course he's got his own family

1511
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: now and and it makes it harder for us to

1512
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 1: get an opportunity to get out and go hunt. My

1513
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,759
Speaker 1: daughter's got a family too, and they both got jobs,

1514
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 1: so that makes it harder to do. But my my

1515
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 1: goalfend next spring is to get both of them, including

1516
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:00,160
Speaker 1: the granddaughters. And my two grandsons are too young at

1517
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 1: the hunt. Uh, so you know that that means more

1518
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 1: to me to take them and go out and have

1519
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 1: their hunts and watch them express and get to do things.

1520
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: Then i'll ever get today. I mean, how how does

1521
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 1: it feel to make that connection? If you if you

1522
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning of our conversation, it's the

1523
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. There's not a lot of turkeys you

1524
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: work for the next four decades to get you know,

1525
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 1: you're one of the major players. And getting these turkeys

1526
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 1: back to where you felt they needed to be. We all,

1527
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 1: I feel like are felt they needed to be. And

1528
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 1: then your two generations down the line, now you have grandkids.

1529
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:38,800
Speaker 1: They are going to get a chance to take part

1530
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 1: in the thing that you work. You're in almost your

1531
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 1: entire life to build for them and for us. How

1532
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 1: does that feeling? It's gotta be unbelievable? Well, it it is.

1533
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 1: It's an awesome responsibility because if I can't teach my

1534
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 1: grandkids the importance of being in the outdoors and the

1535
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: respect for the animals that we're able to deal with

1536
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 1: whether you hunt him or not. Just to learn what

1537
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:06,799
Speaker 1: nature is all about, watching a humming bird or watching

1538
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 1: the lizard is it runs? You know, kind of a

1539
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:14,600
Speaker 1: thing um to me. If I can't teach them that,

1540
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: then there's not a lot of hope around the world

1541
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:20,840
Speaker 1: to get it done. In a bigger mass because we

1542
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: got parents that are single parents or no place to go,

1543
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:28,920
Speaker 1: is you well know and and so it's an awesome responsibility.

1544
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 1: But it also brings back some of the best memories

1545
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: having my grandkids on a hunt and they have to

1546
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: put their smartphone up. I won't let them use it.

1547
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 1: You're gonna watch out here and we're gonna least see

1548
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:44,639
Speaker 1: what's going on. Um, well, that's it's hardening to hear.

1549
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I've got young children, and I watch

1550
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: my son the way that he kind of sees the

1551
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 1: outdoors and he's big enough now that kind of explained

1552
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: to me what he's seeing. And we get to talk

1553
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:58,240
Speaker 1: about and he asked questions and it just opens up

1554
01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: a whole different you know, a whole different light on

1555
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 1: the way you walk around outside. Do you have any

1556
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 1: strikes me that here in the snoring turkeys kept you

1557
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 1: up at night is the thing that makes me chuckle?

1558
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: The monster? There any other as we close this chat out,

1559
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 1: are there any other just kind of crazy moments like

1560
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:20,600
Speaker 1: that that that you remember that put in perspective what

1561
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 1: you did. Yeah, I guess one. And I'll show you

1562
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: a picture in a little bit down in the museum.

1563
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,759
Speaker 1: We were drugging some turkeys at the Northeast Turkey Committee

1564
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:36,120
Speaker 1: meeting in Pennsylvania years and years ago. They wanted to

1565
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:39,679
Speaker 1: understand how the drug in was being done. So while

1566
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,639
Speaker 1: we were meeting, I had gone out into dark with them.

1567
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:45,760
Speaker 1: We'd put out our bait piles and left a conservation

1568
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:49,519
Speaker 1: ulicer on there too. Uh, watch the bait and call

1569
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 1: us when the turkeys were coming into the bait. Unfortunately,

1570
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 1: went to sleep and he woke up and the turkeys

1571
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 1: were on the bait. He had no idea how long

1572
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:01,680
Speaker 1: they've been there. So when he called us back in,

1573
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: we all went to the site. And when I looked

1574
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: out there there's three long beards that are drunk, but

1575
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: they don't quite know it yet. And so we've got

1576
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: a real issue here. How we're gonna catch these turkeys.

1577
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 1: And this fall of the year, September dry leaves and so, uh,

1578
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 1: there's probably twenty five oh us in the group. And

1579
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,160
Speaker 1: I took my shoes off and I started tiptoeing with

1580
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 1: a deep net up on these turkeys. And I caught

1581
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 1: two of them, and the third one was really not

1582
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: quite asleep yet. And but every time I get close

1583
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 1: to him. He had moved on ahead of me, and

1584
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: I was afraid he had flushed, because if he did,

1585
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 1: he could fly three or four d yards and land

1586
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,200
Speaker 1: and we would have to go try to find him.

1587
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize it, but the group behind me

1588
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 1: was taking bets on whether I was going to get

1589
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 1: him or not. And I caught him, and when I did,

1590
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: I got him under my arm and we're walking back

1591
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,800
Speaker 1: out and and a good friend of my Boby Eric's

1592
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 1: from New Jersey, who was there, a turkey project leader,

1593
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 1: took a picture of and it hangs in the museum

1594
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: down here, and people wondering about me barefooted carrying the turkey.

1595
01:26:10,240 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 1: So it was it was just, you know, one of

1596
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 1: those moments was light and it was fun, but it

1597
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 1: had a had a moment to show you can't you

1598
01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: can't leave turkey's on a bait. You gotta be away.

1599
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: You gotta pay attention to what you're doing, or you

1600
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: don't do it. It's got like that has meeting now, right,

1601
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,800
Speaker 1: That photo has meeting, because it's it's the freaking work

1602
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 1: that went into the result. I'll said twenty times, the

1603
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: result that we all enjoy. There's some some incredible stories

1604
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,679
Speaker 1: and work that went into that. Um do you guys

1605
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: never you know, had any like turkey attacks or any

1606
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:47,080
Speaker 1: crazy times where he drugged one and it woke up

1607
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 1: and because that's what I picture. No, no, and that

1608
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 1: not with any of them that you drug, because they're

1609
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 1: they're just trying to get away. I was holding a

1610
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: big gobbler one time when I was in Auburn and

1611
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 1: had a graduate to you know, it was banned in

1612
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: the turkey, and I let one of the wings slip

1613
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 1: loose and and he cracked me across the nose and

1614
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 1: nearly knocked me out. And if it's so uh, that

1615
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:14,639
Speaker 1: was the only time they really got back on other

1616
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:17,599
Speaker 1: than shooting turkeys in the early days and grabbing him

1617
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:20,439
Speaker 1: by the legs and not realizing what a spur can

1618
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: do when he's flopping. So I won all those battles

1619
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 1: from that end of it. Other than that one. Yeah,

1620
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: straight years to one one cracking the nose. I feel

1621
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:33,559
Speaker 1: like you've you've won. Well, Dr Kennermer, thanks so much

1622
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,639
Speaker 1: for chat with me. We're gonna go down and well

1623
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: I'll we'll film a little bit talking in the museum

1624
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 1: here and talking about some of the historical things there,

1625
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:43,920
Speaker 1: because I think those are are interest things. But for

1626
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 1: folks that won't see the video or or want to

1627
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 1: just a kind of get a glimpse of what's down there,

1628
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 1: give him a just a real quick run through of

1629
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 1: some of the exhibits and things they might see. Well,

1630
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 1: you get to see starting off with how turkeys came

1631
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 1: about with the Indians and their relationship, the restoration, how

1632
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 1: it came back, and how we lost the wild turkey.

1633
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 1: We've got dioramas that show each of the subspecies in

1634
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 1: their native habitats uh And as you come around, you've

1635
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: got an old man sitting on the porch of a

1636
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: cabin and he's telling stories about hunting or about the

1637
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,840
Speaker 1: comeback of the wild turkey. And then we've got a

1638
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 1: literally you go in the room and it's like being

1639
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 1: on a ridge, which was a vision we had here,

1640
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,600
Speaker 1: where you can sit on a ridge and watch the

1641
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:34,439
Speaker 1: day wake up in the turkey's goblins. So that people

1642
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 1: that come off the street and never seen a wild turkey,

1643
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,000
Speaker 1: it won't go hunt get to see what we kind

1644
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 1: of go through at daylight in the dark listening for

1645
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 1: a turkey. And then you go into the second half

1646
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:50,719
Speaker 1: of the museum and you get to look at collectible calls,

1647
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 1: a lot of things that you know, the calls has

1648
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:58,799
Speaker 1: been around for a long time, and decorative calls, historical calls.

1649
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 1: The Tom Kelly exhibit, We've got a helicopter that your

1650
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: kids can get into in parents and you can actually

1651
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: see what it's like to be in a helicopter and

1652
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: drop in fire. You can see a big oddities exhibit,

1653
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 1: and then we do a video that shows kind of

1654
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,080
Speaker 1: the comeback of the wild turkeys. So if you're into

1655
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 1: turkeys and want to see Wayne Bailey's desk and where

1656
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 1: he was and some of the history of this organization

1657
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 1: is right here in Edgefield. Oh, I love it. I

1658
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 1: can't wait to go and walk it with you. If

1659
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:33,600
Speaker 1: you is there is there some sort of summation of

1660
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: this for you? I mean, you're retired now, Um, I'm

1661
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:38,439
Speaker 1: sure you have a lot of time to think about

1662
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 1: your works and you enjoy enjoy going out in the

1663
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: fruits of it. Is there some sort of way that

1664
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:47,599
Speaker 1: you would, you know, surmise or summarize all of your

1665
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 1: your time with turkeys. Well, the Good Lord bless me

1666
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:57,600
Speaker 1: to have the opportunity to have a life Uh, epiphany,

1667
01:29:57,680 --> 01:29:59,840
Speaker 1: if you will. When I was in the sixth grade

1668
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 1: and EMDA may not have made the best grades all

1669
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:05,839
Speaker 1: the way through school, my I was always pointed towards

1670
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: that goal, and I set that goal to be able

1671
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 1: to do this as a career. UM. Being blessed to

1672
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,959
Speaker 1: get to do that and meet everybody who was anybody

1673
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: in the turkey world, in the conservation world, is is

1674
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:24,559
Speaker 1: an honor that I can't express that. Uh. Being able

1675
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:26,880
Speaker 1: to do that means the world of me and the

1676
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:30,720
Speaker 1: friends that I've built over the years. Uh, some of

1677
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: which are gone now and some that we work together

1678
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 1: and don't get a chance to visit now. But the

1679
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,240
Speaker 1: fact that we got to make a difference in conservation

1680
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:44,640
Speaker 1: as a collective group, hopefully there will be better for

1681
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:48,800
Speaker 1: this country. This is uh to the four billion dollar

1682
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:52,320
Speaker 1: industry that people chasing wild turkeys. That has a lot

1683
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 1: to do with the economy of this country, and it's

1684
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:56,799
Speaker 1: part of the history of this country. The wild turkey

1685
01:30:56,840 --> 01:31:00,240
Speaker 1: has come back is really a conservation mar Well that

1686
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 1: nobody else can can equate too. So being part of that,

1687
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:07,160
Speaker 1: being able to make sure we've got it for generations

1688
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,840
Speaker 1: to come is what keeps me going, Well, that's what

1689
01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: what brought me here and and that's why I wanted

1690
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,280
Speaker 1: to talk to you. I want everyone that listens to

1691
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:20,760
Speaker 1: this program and hopefully well, um you can understand what

1692
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:23,640
Speaker 1: it means to to hunt and to have the resource,

1693
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:26,360
Speaker 1: and what it meant to build it up, and um,

1694
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:28,600
Speaker 1: what it means to steward it into the future. I

1695
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 1: think all those things are paramount to what we do.

1696
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 1: So thank you for your work and thanks for talking

1697
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 1: to me. Well, thank you, it's been and honor all right, Thanks,

1698
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 1: that's it. That's all another episode in the books. This

1699
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 1: is the real end of Turkey Talk for this spring.

1700
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 1: I promise we had to return to it to get

1701
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 1: Dr James or Kennemer in the show. So thank you

1702
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:53,599
Speaker 1: to the n w TF. Thank you to Dr James

1703
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:57,639
Speaker 1: Earle for coming on and chatting with us about what turkey.

1704
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,599
Speaker 1: Thanks to Spencer new Arthur Hunting editor predding a little

1705
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 1: color and little history there as well. I hope it

1706
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 1: was an intriguing conversation. Hope there was some really clim

1707
01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:07,720
Speaker 1: if those you took from it, and also that you

1708
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 1: learned a little bit about how turkeys came to be

1709
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: where they are today. In this great nation. What else?

1710
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: What else? Wash? Um, go to the meat Eator store.

1711
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 1: I tell you that all the time, but she could

1712
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 1: go there, help me out, help me, help you. Uh.

1713
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 1: There's th HC hoodies, there's YETI tumblers with the t

1714
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 1: a C logo. There are pro nuanced anti bullshit t shirts.

1715
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 1: There are auto freaking Leopold shirts. Uh there for you

1716
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:40,560
Speaker 1: as well. There's a bunch of stuff. But then you

1717
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:44,479
Speaker 1: also find wired hunt merch and Mediator merch there as well.

1718
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:46,679
Speaker 1: So go there, help us out, show off your pride

1719
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:50,599
Speaker 1: from listen to the show. It is really really helpful. Now.

1720
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:53,000
Speaker 1: The other thing is th HC at the meat eator

1721
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 1: dot com TC at the meat eater dot com. I

1722
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 1: want to hear what you think about the show. Um,

1723
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:00,120
Speaker 1: I want you to write in a lot if you

1724
01:33:00,120 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 1: already have, I want more of you two right in.

1725
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think, ask questions, will answer them

1726
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:08,160
Speaker 1: on the show, and send in your audio clips. Go

1727
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 1: to your phone hit notes if you have an iPhone

1728
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: talking to talk into it for less than two minutes

1729
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:16,160
Speaker 1: and send me that audio file. You can do it

1730
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:17,639
Speaker 1: all on your phone. It takes no time at all.

1731
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: In fact, one of my favorite listeners is a guy

1732
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: named Eric Hall from North Carolina. Eric has sent in

1733
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:27,600
Speaker 1: a couple of really good just like meandering reviews of

1734
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 1: the show. I just love this dude. I love the

1735
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 1: way he speaks um and he is the man, and

1736
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna listen to him here coming up with some

1737
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:38,560
Speaker 1: of his feedback. But I want your feedback to I

1738
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 1: want you to send those audio files. A lot of

1739
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:42,559
Speaker 1: you have as well, so thank you. We're gonna try

1740
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: to air them all on these shows at the end,

1741
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 1: So t C at the Mediator dot com hit us

1742
01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 1: up please without further ado, We're gonna get to Mr

1743
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: Hall some of his feedback over the last month or so,

1744
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:59,479
Speaker 1: and then old number seven to take us out. Thank

1745
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 1: you for joy us. Join us next week for Doug

1746
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 1: a bike Clark, a writer who has some of the

1747
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,919
Speaker 1: most amazing stories about a group called the Lama Larans,

1748
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:15,360
Speaker 1: the last subsistence whalers on the face of the Earth.

1749
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:20,960
Speaker 1: We'll see then bye, Okay, just got done listening to

1750
01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:25,920
Speaker 1: the thing directive the North American Sportunes of the Life

1751
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: enjoyed the also one particular episode that I really enjoyed

1752
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: or two of episode three episodes dex with the episode

1753
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 1: you've done with the old trapper code Hunter in Texas.

1754
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 1: Really enjoyed it. Also enjoyed the two part podcast Since

1755
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 1: You Ask that talked about the North American model while

1756
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:56,880
Speaker 1: model Jody very much. I think Anna would be part

1757
01:34:56,920 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: of the high school curriculum. Kid just don't know about

1758
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 1: that stuff. That thing that would be very good for

1759
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:11,599
Speaker 1: them to here. Enjoyed the story about you getting lost

1760
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:16,960
Speaker 1: not take it taking the trail from and trail advice

1761
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:20,320
Speaker 1: from a hippie woman, and it's probably a pretty good

1762
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 1: advice not to do that. And a particularly this portion.

1763
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 1: You're putting this out there for people to give your feedback.

1764
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 1: I listened to the Mediator podcast. I really enjoy it

1765
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 1: and particular, one particular part I enjoyed by the media

1766
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 1: podcast is the feedback from people that lived, So I enjoyed.

1767
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate you putting this out here for to get

1768
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 1: feedback from people. One particular thing I do not life

1769
01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:00,640
Speaker 1: that you do it and Steve we know it does it.

1770
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 1: They call you called turkeys turks. I think they command

1771
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:08,720
Speaker 1: a little more respect. But that's just me. It's a

1772
01:36:08,720 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 1: little pet be and I'm not gonna but listen that

1773
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 1: because of it, but I enjoyed the podcast. Keep us

1774
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 1: good work all you guys. The meat eater Eric all Okla, Yeah,

1775
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:26,479
Speaker 1: Ben you do man. Eric Hall here from Thurmond, Okai.

1776
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 1: Just got done listening to the podcast with the Colonel

1777
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:35,800
Speaker 1: Tom Kelly. Really enjoyed it wasn't to hire on the

1778
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:39,439
Speaker 1: new format start with, but starting to grow on me.

1779
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the first part there with Yanni's but tell

1780
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: us enjoy listening to y'all. Got an hour drive to

1781
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:52,120
Speaker 1: work and back, so keep them rolling. Got two hours

1782
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:57,599
Speaker 1: podcast every day. Uh. Turkey season was pretty good here

1783
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:02,560
Speaker 1: and actually killed two birds and wish Virginia Nunn in

1784
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 1: North Carolina this year a little tough here, but did

1785
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 1: get some turkey breast, some leggs, tried to make some

1786
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 1: soup out of the legs and five I think one

1787
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:20,560
Speaker 1: of the meat either crueler kind of inspired me on

1788
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:25,040
Speaker 1: that turned out good, so keep up the good words.

1789
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:29,640
Speaker 1: Enjoyed podcast Jack damn oh number seven and as you

1790
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 1: wisk you got me dragging heaven and uh and just stopped.

1791
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 1: It looks good to me. They're gonna have to to

1792
01:37:36,560 --> 01:38:00,400
Speaker 1: bump into the barde oh do the bar reddre do

1793
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:02,719
Speaker 1: that do that be needed