WEBVTT - Trump Administration Halts Obama-Era Equal Pay Rule (Audio)

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.560
<v Speaker 1>President Trump's administration has been rolling back federal regulations on

0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>a wide array of issues. One of those regulations is

0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.920
<v Speaker 1>an Obama Error rule that was aimed at combating salary

0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.400
<v Speaker 1>discrimination against women and people of color. The administrat the

0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.479
<v Speaker 1>Trump administration has delayed the rule, but a coalition of

0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.319
<v Speaker 1>civil rights groups, including the National Women's Law Center and

0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.360
<v Speaker 1>the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights under Law, are preparing

0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:27.280
<v Speaker 1>a legal challenge to the Trump administration's delay of implementation.

0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Here to talk with us about this rule and what

0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.920
<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration is doing about it, or is Michael Selmi,

0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:39.240
<v Speaker 1>a professor at George Washington University Law School. Michael, what

0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.760
<v Speaker 1>would this rule do in terms of employers and their

0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:50.280
<v Speaker 1>salary information? The rule was designed to provide more information

0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:54.800
<v Speaker 1>to the federal government regarding pay practices of large employers. Currently,

0:00:54.880 --> 0:01:00.680
<v Speaker 1>large employers have to provide demographic information about their workforce UH,

0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:05.280
<v Speaker 1>and this would have extended their obligations to include pay

0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.360
<v Speaker 1>data UM broadly categorized in the same way that the

0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:14.479
<v Speaker 1>demographic information is done and UM. It's designed to address

0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.839
<v Speaker 1>pay disparities with respect to women's pay, but the information

0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.640
<v Speaker 1>UM would have been more broad than that, and it

0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.880
<v Speaker 1>also would have only gone to the federal government. This

0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.480
<v Speaker 1>was not going to be publicly available information. UM. But

0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:33.000
<v Speaker 1>it was an effort to collect more information by the government,

0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.880
<v Speaker 1>which respect to the pay practices of large employers. Well,

0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.160
<v Speaker 1>what was the idea that the What was the government

0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.160
<v Speaker 1>going to do with this information once it got it? Well,

0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.280
<v Speaker 1>that's the UM. That's a good question. Uh. It can

0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.559
<v Speaker 1>do a number of different things. Uh. It can based

0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:53.480
<v Speaker 1>on the information, UH, start investigations of employer practices. They

0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.360
<v Speaker 1>do that currently with the demographic information. If they they

0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.840
<v Speaker 1>received the information, they have been receiving it for decades. UM.

0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.440
<v Speaker 1>If they see why disparities in an employer's workforce, say

0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.080
<v Speaker 1>it's all white or there's UM over were way more

0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.440
<v Speaker 1>men than you might expect given the UM employer or

0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the work that they're doing, that they can begin. The

0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.959
<v Speaker 1>government based on that data can begin an investigation. And

0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.959
<v Speaker 1>UH they could use the pay data in the same way. UM.

0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Whether they would do that or how much action they

0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.080
<v Speaker 1>would do based on the data, it's it's not so clear.

0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.760
<v Speaker 1>But they would not be able to UM disseminate the

0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.320
<v Speaker 1>information to private groups who are also gearing up to

0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.840
<v Speaker 1>bring UM challenges to employers pay practices, but this would

0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.519
<v Speaker 1>have information would have remained just what the government would

0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.680
<v Speaker 1>have been confidential. So if it's just a reporting statute

0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:48.400
<v Speaker 1>and the only the government's going to have it, what

0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.440
<v Speaker 1>is the Trump administration saying about it? So they haven't

0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.000
<v Speaker 1>said very much yet. They did, as you noted in

0:02:55.040 --> 0:03:00.640
<v Speaker 1>the prelude, they put the rule on hold. The the

0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:05.200
<v Speaker 1>employer's obligations to report this inspiration was set to begin

0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.720
<v Speaker 1>in March of The rule was announced last year, was

0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.320
<v Speaker 1>finalized last year, so they had some lead time to

0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.000
<v Speaker 1>provide the information, which is basically based on W two

0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.280
<v Speaker 1>statements and the like, but there would certainly be some

0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:22.280
<v Speaker 1>burden in reporting it. UM. The Trump administration has put

0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.680
<v Speaker 1>that on hold to review, UH, to further review, because

0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.680
<v Speaker 1>the Obama administration also reviewed the rule. UM, this was

0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.000
<v Speaker 1>not done in formal rulemaking. That was done in a

0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.840
<v Speaker 1>more truncated process and UH. What the challenges now is

0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.040
<v Speaker 1>at this point is just a foil request by the

0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.840
<v Speaker 1>civil rights crews. But they want to know essentially why

0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.520
<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration put it on hold UM and whether

0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.800
<v Speaker 1>they are simply planning to retract the rule or whether

0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.600
<v Speaker 1>they have some concerns about the potential costs burdens on employers,

0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.000
<v Speaker 1>and so far the Trump administration has not provided any

0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.480
<v Speaker 1>information of why they put it on hold, other than

0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.080
<v Speaker 1>that they want to review it further. With respect to

0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.040
<v Speaker 1>potential burdens, Well, what do we know about how much

0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.040
<v Speaker 1>of a burden it would be on employers to provide

0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:11.360
<v Speaker 1>this information. Well, there's UM wide disparities in terms of

0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:16.400
<v Speaker 1>the UH projected costs UM in its rulemaking that they did.

0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.799
<v Speaker 1>The e O c UM projected costs of about fifty

0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.520
<v Speaker 1>million dollars for the employers. UH. The employer groups the

0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.600
<v Speaker 1>Chamber of Commerce estimated that the cost would be closer

0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.040
<v Speaker 1>to four millions, so there was a big gap between

0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the two. UM. My sense is that, you know, there

0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.320
<v Speaker 1>would certainly be costs, but it should be mostly a

0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:40.480
<v Speaker 1>one time costs UM. Once the UM systems were set

0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.400
<v Speaker 1>up to record this information, UH, it should be you know, annually,

0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.000
<v Speaker 1>it should just be updating the information. And that's true.

0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.120
<v Speaker 1>With the current demographic information on race and gender of

0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the workforces, UM to pay would be a little bit

0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.760
<v Speaker 1>more complicated to do UM, but once they figured out

0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.760
<v Speaker 1>how to do it, and and that's one of the

0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.600
<v Speaker 1>reasons for the delay, It wasn't entirely clear what was

0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:04.359
<v Speaker 1>going to be required and how it was going to

0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.880
<v Speaker 1>be done. UM, but the cost shouldn't be they should

0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.120
<v Speaker 1>be one time costs. Well the UM you know, if

0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.760
<v Speaker 1>if there if these groups are gearing up for a

0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.120
<v Speaker 1>legal challenge by doing a Freedom of Information Act request,

0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.159
<v Speaker 1>they're gathering information, what do you do you think there's

0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.840
<v Speaker 1>any sort of procedural problems they're looking at or is

0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:26.960
<v Speaker 1>it really just a matter of trying to figure out

0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:31.760
<v Speaker 1>what the Trump Administration's rationalies? Oh? I think these um,

0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.960
<v Speaker 1>it's always gamble when the administration, in this instance, the

0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.919
<v Speaker 1>Obama administration completes the rule right towards the end of

0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the administration before it can really be implemented. And I think, um,

0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:48.440
<v Speaker 1>the civil rights groups uh are probably hoping to find

0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.799
<v Speaker 1>something that might lead to a successful challenge that would

0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.200
<v Speaker 1>require the Trump administration to implement the rule. But that

0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.960
<v Speaker 1>seems unlikely UH to me, especially since it's currently just

0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.960
<v Speaker 1>on hold. And UH it's possible too that the newly

0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.600
<v Speaker 1>cost to the EOC, once they're um fully up with

0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Republican majority, they could retract the rule as well. So

0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.480
<v Speaker 1>it seems to be an effort to try and preserve

0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.800
<v Speaker 1>a rule, but I think that's going to it's going

0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.479
<v Speaker 1>to be a significant challenge for them to be successful

0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.839
<v Speaker 1>on that. So it sounds like, unlike some of the

0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.359
<v Speaker 1>places where the Trump administration has run into trouble and

0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.120
<v Speaker 1>say environmental regulations and where there are questions about whether

0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.560
<v Speaker 1>they followed the Administrative Procedures Act, this one may actually

0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.200
<v Speaker 1>be an easier one for them to delay. I think

0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.640
<v Speaker 1>that's right in part because the e o C did

0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.320
<v Speaker 1>not follow the Administrative Procedures Act. They've used a different process,

0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.080
<v Speaker 1>so it should be easier to undo. Although it's it's

0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:50.280
<v Speaker 1>possible that the FOIL request could produce information that showed

0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.560
<v Speaker 1>what the Trump administration is not supposed to do in

0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:58.040
<v Speaker 1>the OMB review is just repudiate the rule. They would

0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.480
<v Speaker 1>have to it would have to be cost bay and

0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.200
<v Speaker 1>it's possible that they didn't have any of that information yet.

0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.440
<v Speaker 1>But the fact that it's only on hold also seems

0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.440
<v Speaker 1>like the challenge is likely a bit premature because the

0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Trump administration has not completed its review of these regulations

0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.360
<v Speaker 1>yet or this regulation well, and about we only have

0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.800
<v Speaker 1>about thirty seconds. But what would the e o C

0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.600
<v Speaker 1>have to do to withdraw the roll. Uh, they could,

0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.520
<v Speaker 1>um as and when they're newly cut to they could,

0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I believe, just um in their procedures, just withdrawn. And

0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.520
<v Speaker 1>probably what they would do is say that they were

0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.200
<v Speaker 1>withdrawing it to reconsider it. UM. And Michael, I think

0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.400
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna we're gonna have to stop there. Thanks very

0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.680
<v Speaker 1>much to Michael sell Me, professor at George Washington University

0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Law School