1 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber production of I Heart Radio 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: and Stuff Media. I'm Annes and I'm Lauren Vocalbam, and 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: today we're talking about caviar. Yes we are, which is 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: a very popular dish at Russian New Year, so sort 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: of timely. Yeah. Also, I was telling Lauren before we 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: started every now and then I make what I call 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: a grave miscalculation in episodes. And when we were talking 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: about this, because Lauren and I have some travel coming up, 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: so we were trying to pick kind of enclosed topics. Yeah, 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: something that would be easy to research, heavy scare quotes, right, 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: and we picked caviare because we thought, you know, this 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: is one specific type of product. Yeah, so easy to wrangle. No, nope, 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: no cold. Kept researching this for days, maybe weeks. Definitely, 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: it spent at least at least forty eight hours, like straight, 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: not straight, but like total maybe straight. I haven't slept 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: in a while. God show, Annie, Oh no, cave are 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: it is the one that didn't say it is. I 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: think Rice was the closest I've gotten. But you know, 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I've ever had. I think I have. 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: But I was under the misconception that all fish row 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: is caveat. I've had it. I've had like a couple 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: pieces of it, like on top of something else, like 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: kind of kind of like the traditional like Bellini kind 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: of thing, like a little little fluffy pancake with like 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of sour cream or something, and 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: then a couple Yeah, I've had like that sort of thing, 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,639 Speaker 1: but I haven't like had like a spoonful of cavia. No, 28 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: but I really want to now, and I think I 29 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: feel very guilty about doing so. So it's the opportunity 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: is not going to present itself unless unless something changes. Well, uh, 31 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,919 Speaker 1: you know, you never know, you know, you never know exactly, 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: but we do know something. We kind of know some 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: things about caviar. This is the other like disclaimer that 34 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: we wanted to say, is that, uh, this is one 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: of those topics where it feels like everything that we 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: read about it, there was a different source that said 37 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: something different, and like a good source, yeah and all decent. 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So yeah, I guess that brings us to 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: our question, brings us to many questions. It does start 40 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: with that one. Caviar. What is it? Well, caviar is 41 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: the unfertilized eggs of fish. Typically types of sturgeon prepared 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: and preserved by curing them in salt. Yes and sturgeon 43 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: are a family of these large bottom feeding, smooth skinned 44 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: fish no scales with these kind of big bony plates 45 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: running down their bodies, and the ones harvested for caviar 46 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: tend to range like five to sixteen feet long and 47 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: maturity and our cool water fish um. They live mostly 48 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: in fresh water like rivers, lakes, river deltas, that kind 49 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: of thing. About twenty different species of sturgeon may be 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: used to make caviare, but the most well known and 51 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: common are all originally from the Caspian Sea. Whoso whoso 52 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: better known as beluga, as a pencer sturry better known 53 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: as etcetera, and a spencer servu better known as sevruga. 54 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: Their eggs range in size and color. They're they're they're 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: real small, um but but yeah, and they can range 56 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: in size and color from grade green to gold to black. 57 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: Belugas are the biggest um et Cetera is the most 58 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: subtle and complex flavored, and Sevruga is the smallest and 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: considered the low end quality of the spectrum. Um as 60 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: with well any animal protein really UM. The fishes, environment 61 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: and feed will affect the flavor and quality of the 62 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: finished caviar. To create caviar, you you remove the eggs 63 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: as from a grown sturgeon, and kind of wash and 64 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: sieve away the eggs from the membranes of the those sacks. 65 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: You rinse the eggs, remove any bits from them that 66 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: are not tasty looking eggs, because you're probably gonna get 67 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 1: some other weird stuff in there, uh yeah, and then 68 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: fold in salt, and the salt will pretty much immediately 69 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: create a brine as as the salt seeps into the 70 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: eggs and water seeps out, you know, osmosis um. And 71 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: then you drain the brine and can the eggs for 72 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: curing a few weeks. Curing is common. Um. It's then 73 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: packaged and sold and the flavor will develop more over time, 74 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: getting stronger as the product ages from a few months 75 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: to about a year. Matter of taste, how long you 76 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: want to wait before you eat it. The result is 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: a briny, savory uh mildly fishy texture explosion um that 78 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: the smooth eggs pop in your mouth, releasing this kind 79 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: of silky liquid um. And if you've never had any 80 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: kind of fish row um, it's sort of like a 81 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: less violent pop rocks kind of situation, pop rocks of 82 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: the sea and can bubble tea. Yeah. Yeah. I love 83 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: reading people's descriptions of the texture specifically, and that is 84 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: my favorite part of fisher that I've had. Yeah, absolutely, 85 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: how kind of like, yeah, it's just a little burst 86 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: because it's just sort of smooth and flavorless, and then 87 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: there's a burst and then just this this wash flavor um. 88 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: Female surgeon grow these these big egg sacts that just 89 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: run all along the inside of their bellies, and mature 90 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: fish may have so many eggs that they can account 91 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: for a full quarter of its body weight, which is 92 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: typically like eight kilos around eighty pounds. But the fish 93 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: can grow a much bigger. The largest on record was 94 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: Bluga cott in seven, weighing over one thousand, five hundred 95 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: kilos um. She was over seven ms long. That's uh, 96 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: that's thirty pounds and over twenty three ft. Oh wow, 97 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: that is a heck and big fish. Yes, I recommend 98 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: looking at pictures of these because I didn't envision them 99 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: the way that they are. They're pretty big a lot 100 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, Yeah, they're like big, like like Dino 101 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: catfish like huge battle ready catfish. Oh, I kind of 102 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: love them. Sturgeon may have to be eight to twelve 103 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: years old or or even older, before they're mature enough 104 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: to create enough eggs to be considered worth harvesting for 105 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: this row. UM. Traditionally, you have to kill the fish 106 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: in order to harvest the row because you can't wait 107 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: for the fish to lay her eggs because once laid, 108 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: the membranes start to break down pretty fast, you know, 109 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: for easy fertilization. Great for creating baby fish, but um, 110 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: it would create less like pop and snap in the 111 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: finished caviar. So yeah, it's delicate timing because you if 112 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: you harvest too early, the eggs will be too small 113 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: and too fatty. UM farms do process when they kill 114 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: the fish. They do process the rest of the fish 115 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: for for sale, preventing waste, which is two points, but 116 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: this may may be changing. UM. A few processes are 117 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: being researched for harvesting row without killing or even cutting 118 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: open the fish. UM. One involves checking the eggs development 119 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: via ultrasound and then administering, like when they're ready, administering 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: this labor inducing protein that will cause the membranes to 121 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: release the eggs and will allow the producers to just 122 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: gently massage the eggs out of the fish. The futures 123 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: nowt sounds for sturgeon. I I will say that this 124 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: isn't I mean, I think a side effect that's great 125 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: is that it doesn't harm the fish. But I think 126 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: it's really more the fact that you're you're putting eight 127 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: to twelve years into growing one of these buddies, and 128 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: then if you kill it for a single harvest, it's 129 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And as we're going to talk about 130 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: in a little bit, the numbers are pretty grim. Oh 131 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: they really are, because, yeah, we we've just about brought 132 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: sturgeon to extinction for for caviar um, and so these 133 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: days most to all caviare sturgeon, are farmed. Numbers are 134 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: getting better. We're kinda we're gonna We're gonna get to 135 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: it anyway, We're absolutely gonna get to it. According to you, 136 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: Alexandra Petrician of the Patrician Fine Food Company, when good 137 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: quality caviar is packed, the friction caused by the eggs 138 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: rubbing together replicates the sound of a cat purring. Cat purring. Yeah, 139 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: I just liked that. Yes, And historically caviar spoons were 140 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: made out of things like pearl or bone or wood, 141 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: since silver was believed to react with caviar in a 142 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: way that negatively impacted the taste. Yes, there's a lot 143 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: of debate about there. If that's actually true. I think 144 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: it depends on what it was stored at. The caviar 145 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: restored it at the specific type. Oh yeah, well of metal. Yeah, 146 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: there you go. Nutrition wise, Uh, you know, fish eggs 147 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: are little sax protein, you know, which if the eggs 148 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: were fertilized, would code for the growth of the baby fish. Um, 149 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: plus fats and a lot of itemins and minerals to 150 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: fuel that hypothetical fishes growth. Um. So you know, kind 151 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: of kind of fatty, kind of proteining. Not not bad 152 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: for you. Um. The added salt, though, is like a 153 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: lot of salt. Um. A single tablespoon of vavre contains 154 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: about a tenth of your daily recommended intake of sodium. Um. 155 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: Probably you're not eating more than that anyway, Probably you're 156 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: not even eating that much. Probably not. But from the 157 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: research I've done, some people are reading way more than that. 158 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: I have heard some stories, we have and we have 159 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: some numbers. The market for gaviar is growing. Analysts predict 160 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: that it will reach five hundred million dollars. China accounts 161 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: of the world's surgeon farms. By contrast, the US has 162 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: sixty total. Even so, the US is projected become the 163 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: third largest legal producer of caviare this year. And here's 164 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: one of those weird numbers things. I read a different 165 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: market research analysis that predicted the market to be worth 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: one point five billion by I did not buy either 167 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: of these research reports, which cost over a thousand dollars, 168 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: like to like two grand apiece um to see exactly 169 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: what they're talking about and how they got those numbers. 170 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: But we can suffice to say the market is worth 171 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of money. Yes, I think we can 172 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: say that. And although yes, China has by far the 173 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: most production, and I think a full third, like quarter 174 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: to a third of global production is one company in China. 175 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: But um, but sturgeon are farmed for caviar all of 176 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: the world now, um Russia, I Ran, China, the US, France, Italy, Belgium, Germany, Israel, Moldova, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, 177 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, the UK, Uruguay. There's probably more. Oh, definitely, yeah, 178 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: cavire did used to be largely served in one particular way, 179 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: the way you mentioned lauren um, at least in the 180 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: Russian preparation a top, puffy pancakes, bollini with cream. Fresh 181 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: purists argue you should eat the good stuff straight with 182 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: a spoon. I'm in nowadays, people, I put caviar on 183 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: just about anything you can imagine. I believe in our 184 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: Edible Gold episode, a lot of the food items we 185 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: mentioned that were the most expensive food items had caviar 186 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: because that's a real quick way to jump up the 187 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: price and make it funzy. Yes, but it's not so good. 188 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: Numbers two the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch list a 189 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: handful of the twenty six, but I've read seven. I've 190 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: read twenty nine. So there's apparently argument about species is 191 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, the whole thing. But anyway, the 192 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: species listit of surgeon we get caviar from are all endangered, 193 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: and all of them are over fished for sustainable options 194 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: at the Monterey Bay recommend Us farmed white sturgeon and 195 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: paddlefish row due to its endangered status. Importing beluga caviare 196 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: from the Caspian and Black Sea was banned in the 197 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: United States in two thousand and five. At the time, 198 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: the US consumed six of the global exports of that product. 199 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: The U N had a similar band, but they lifted 200 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: it in two thousand seven, but updates in a Celler 201 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: in Florida was granted an exemption to the U S 202 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: band given that they helped restore the wild population and 203 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: didn't rely on product from the Caspian Sea. It took 204 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: this company through years, but as of twenty nineteen, they 205 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: met those requirements and were given the go ahead to 206 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: sell their product commercially. So this is happening right now. 207 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: It is. The Monterey Bay Aquarium also states Seafood Watch 208 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: no longer has recommendations for sturgeon or caviar that's imported 209 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: from the Casping or Black Seas because the legal harvest 210 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: of sturgeon is banned. Yeah, and it's generally a very 211 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: expensive product, like we were saying, depending on the variety, 212 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: although there has been a rise in more affordable options. 213 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: The most expensive caviarn record went for thirty five thousand 214 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: dollars per kilo, and that's about a thousand dollars per 215 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: out harvested from an Iranian beluga sturgeon, estimated between sixty 216 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: to one hundred years old. The Guinness Book of World 217 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: Records list this as the World's most expensive food, World's 218 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: most expensive food. And I was curious, and I looked 219 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: up a local Russian restaurant here in Atlanta, to Clive's Rufe, 220 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: to see if they had caviar. And they do one 221 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: ounce supplement a hundred and sixty five dollars, and then 222 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: another option a hundred and five dollars. So so thrifty, 223 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: let's put it on your company card. We might be 224 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: able to get away with it if no one checks 225 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: to because it's over a hundred dollars a meal, you're 226 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: supposed to specify. Why, Right, if we just get like 227 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: four people out and just get that, I think we 228 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: can get away with it. All right, Well, I'm in. 229 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: Because caviar is so expensive widely and so rare, it 230 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: has become closely associated with luxury, almost at the point 231 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: of being shorthand for it. Robin Leech's Lifestyles of the 232 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: Rich and Famous and American TV series that aired from 233 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: the mid eighties to the mid nineties, came with the 234 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: tag are Champagne Wishes and caviare dreams, which, by the way, 235 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: most experts do not recommend the pairing of champagne and caviar, 236 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: but instead of vodka, it's cleaner. It's cleaner. Yeah, I've 237 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: also heard suck is a really good one. Man. All 238 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: these things I want to sure James Beard once said 239 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: of caviare the row of the Russian mother Sturgeon has 240 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: probably been present at more important international affairs than have 241 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: all the Russian dignitaries of history combined. This seemingly simple 242 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: article of the diet has taken its place in the 243 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: world along with pearls, sables, old silver, and Selini cups. 244 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,119 Speaker 1: Speaking of sables, Ludwig Mamelman's the author of the Madeline 245 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: but Um and also apparently a little bit of a gourmand, 246 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: once said, caviar is to dining what a sable coat 247 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: is to a girl in an evening dress. Are are 248 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: this quote from maguelon to sin Sma from a History 249 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: of Food. Every man and every woman reverently eating modern 250 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: ambrosia in the form of caviar can identify as they 251 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: indulge in the mad extravagance of swallowing it, even if 252 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: they do not happen to like it with what they 253 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: see as the last incarnation of the immortals. Wow, right, 254 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: heck right, that is very French, it is. I'm one 255 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: more kind of to hint at some of the things 256 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: to come from Nikita Krushchev from Enemy at the Gate. 257 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: We have the luxury of vodka. We have the luxury 258 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: of caviare time. It's luxury we do not have. Ah, 259 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: but caviar wasn't always such a luxury. Nope. And we 260 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: will get into that and the history of caviare once 261 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: we get back from a quick break for a word 262 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, 263 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: thank you. And as we said, lots of conflicting history 264 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: on this one, but we'll do our best. And as 265 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: part of that, shout out to INGA. Saffron's book Caviar, 266 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: The Strange History and Uncertain Future of the world's most 267 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: Coveted Delicacy for being a huge help fascinating read. And 268 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: it's really great if you want an illustration of just 269 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: how much the numbers have dropped, how much the industry 270 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: has changed. Yeah, yeah, but okay, yeah, history the sturgeon 271 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: goes back some fifty million years changed at that time, right. 272 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: Some call it a living fossil because of that. It 273 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: was consumed by Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners pretty much 274 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: since the beginning of humanity, but it's harder to say 275 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: with certainty that they were eating caviare. I'm sure if 276 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: it was there, it got in, but the eggs wouldn't 277 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: have been salt here, so it's not technically caviare anyway. 278 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: Some sources do indicate that fish eggs were one of 279 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: our first delicacies, coveted by ancient Romans and Greeks, but 280 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: there isn't much to back that up, and it conflicts 281 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: with a lot of other historical records. Aristotle described caviare 282 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: as a feature at banquets, announced at the end of 283 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: feast with great fan trumpets and flowers. I love that. 284 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: Why don't we do that anymore? Here comes the I 285 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: don't know the pineapple? Okay, next party. Some sources suggest 286 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: that all the way back to two thousand, four undred BC, 287 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: Egyptians and Phoenicians salted and pickled fish eggs as a 288 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: food stuff to sustain them through famines, wars, and long journeys, 289 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: and not just reading. At varying points in history, it 290 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: was viewed as an antidepressant, a way to increase stamina, 291 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: and a cure for impotence. Sure. The twelfth century is 292 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: when caviar really became widespread in Russia, primarily as a 293 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: food for the working class. Workers and peasants would press 294 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: out the liquid and slice off pieces like like bread 295 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: for lunch. Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a method of 296 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: I think a bunch of kind of the damaged or 297 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: less good eggs still to this day can be pressed 298 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: into sort of like a cake, which I really want 299 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: to try. Oh, I'm very curious about it. It sounds 300 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: quite fishy and salty it, but yeah, they would eat 301 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: this um for their lunches. In twelve forty, the grandson 302 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: of Genghis Khan, Batu Khan, enjoyed caviarre paired with hot 303 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: apple preserves after he conquered Muscovie. The story goes that 304 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: his wife couldn't get over the smell and may or 305 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: may not have spit it out they or may not 306 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: have even tried it, but definitely walked away and was like, no, nope, 307 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: not for me. Some countries, though, had laws during the 308 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: Middle Ages dictating that high quality caviare had to be 309 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: reserved for their respective monarchies. One example came in when 310 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: King Edward the Second declared the sturgeon was the royal fish, 311 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: decreeing that the stock in England's waters belonged to the 312 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: Imperial Treasury. And this brings us to a modern thing 313 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: that had to include that I legitimately thought might have 314 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: been an onion article, but it's totally real. A BBC 315 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: story from two thousand four detailed a man being investigated 316 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: by the police after he caught a sturgeon allegedly without 317 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: the Queen's for mission, without the Queen's press right, so 318 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: it's still a thing. According to the story, the Queen 319 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: has to be consulted prior to any action regarding a 320 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: sturgeon after it is caught. Only around six are caught 321 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: in the UK a year. The fisherman in question didn't 322 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: even know that this was a thing, was exactly and 323 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: to consult people about it. A spokesperson from the Swansea 324 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: Coast Guard said a facts was sent to Buckingham Palace 325 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: and fairly quickly return facts came saying the fisherman was 326 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: free to dispose of it as he wished. I believe 327 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: that most of the time fishermen are allowed to keep 328 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: what they catch. Although this has never happened in eight years. 329 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: That worked here. Wow, they set up facts. Not only 330 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: did they send the facts about whether or not this guy, 331 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: the queen will allow this guy to do something with 332 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: a fish. It was a fact. It was fat and 333 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: and Buckingham Palace faxed him back quickly. And then I 334 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: found out that royal fish is the whole thing. It's 335 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: a category and we have to do an episode on it. 336 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: We have to, yes, like dolphins are one still still 337 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: a thing, that's beautiful. The Queen's probably like, oh, asked 338 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: me about this stainton shirt. In the fourteen hundreds, Venetians 339 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: returned from the Black Sea with barrels of caviar, introducing 340 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: it to parts of Europe that had previously not known 341 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: about it. It It possibly they had, but it had been forgotten. However, 342 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: it didn't really take off. Shakespeare even used caviar to 343 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: mean obscurity and Hamlet in the sixteenth century. Common Italian 344 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: saying at the time was whosoever edith of caviar, edith 345 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: of salt, dung and flies. I know, really some fishermen 346 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: of fed fish road to pigs as far as we know, 347 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: the English word caviar first appeared in print, possibly derived 348 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: from the Turkish word caviar or perhaps the Persian word chavjar. 349 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: These words mean cake of power or piece of power 350 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: they did, or perhaps it was derived from Italian or Greek. 351 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: Arguments about this as well mysteries histories. After the Cossack 352 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: rebellion failed in sixteen seventy one, its leader was hung, 353 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: the Cossacks presented the Czar with a bowl of caviare, 354 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: reminiscent of the act of peasants offering up salt and 355 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: bread to honored guest. In order to prevent a future uprising, 356 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: Czar Peter the Great gave the Cossacks control of the 357 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: sturgeon industry, as well as the power to collect taxes 358 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: on salt, both key and caviare. In fact, Peter advised 359 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,239 Speaker 1: the Cossacks to export caviare, but it wasn't easy, and 360 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: while this meant that for many Europeans, Russian caviare was 361 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: beyond their reach, many heard tales of it. Some found 362 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: it almost mythic, while others found it flat out ridiculous, 363 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: including French writer Rabelais. He wrote about that ridiculously beyond 364 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: the whole thing. When Peter the Great offered up a 365 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: sample of caviare to French King Louis the fifteenth, the 366 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: king allegedly spit it out on the very fantasy carpet 367 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: at the very side Safari Dictionary do Commerce came with 368 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: this glowing review. It is beginning to be known in 369 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: France where it's not despised at the best tables. Oh, 370 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: becoming known where it's not despised, that's me. Caviar was 371 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: further popularized in Russia as an alternative to meet on 372 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: the days when the Church forbade eating meat in the 373 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds. In eighteen sixty one, Elena Molokovitz cookbook 374 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: A Gift to young housewives, suggested garnishing sauerkraut with caviare as, 375 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: though it were quote strewn with poppy seeds. I mean share, yeah, 376 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: no arguments here. The Romanov, not the royal family. Romanov 377 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: Caviar Company was established in eighteen fifty nine. Two other 378 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: big names in the world of caviare to this day 379 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: got started around this time. German company Diekman and Hanson 380 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one and Paris based Petro sian A 381 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: couple of years later in nine two, which I mentioned 382 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: at the top. Meanwhile, when the Ritz Hotel Paris opened 383 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: in eighteen nine one, it drew in a celebrity clientele 384 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: like Ernest Hemingway and f Scott Fitzgerald. I feel like 385 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: they were everywhere, was somewhere, They were there, and they 386 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: enjoyed caviar and champagne. Also, there are really wild stories 387 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: about this hotel, which I believe recently reopened after remodeling, 388 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: including that Hemmingway helped liberate it from the Nazis. Somehow, 389 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked about that before, But if 390 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: we haven't, maybe in a cocktail episode. Yeah, I think 391 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: it came up. But anyway, I guess you can get 392 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: caviare treatment for your face there, or you could at 393 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: one time I didn't like call and ask, But according 394 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: to their website, there is a Chanel Skincare Spa and 395 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: a proprietary Ritz spa, and I did not see any 396 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: caviar I mentioned. Doesn't mean that it's not there. Um. However, 397 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: while we're talking about the Ritz one, Matthew Fort, writing 398 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: about caviar for Esquire, related that around the Ritz, London's 399 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: Rivioli bar Um had these, uh, these these five pounds 400 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: sterling lunches that consisted of white bread sandwiches, crusts cut 401 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: off of course um stuffed with either foi gra or 402 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: caviar um plus half a bottle of champagne on the side. Um. 403 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: And I mean five pounds today sounds like, oh man, 404 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: that's a great deal, let's do it every day. At 405 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: the time it was like like thirty eight pounds in 406 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: today's money, um, which is about fifty bucks American. So not, 407 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean, still a pretty good deal for comparatively. Yeah, 408 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: not as cheap as it sounds. No, and not as 409 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: cheap as it sounds. The Industrial Revolution made transport of 410 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: intact eggs far simpler, things like refrigeration railways huge helps, 411 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: and also allowed for the growth of a class of 412 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: folks that could afford them. A Greek sea captain by 413 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: the name of Jonas of oar Kiss helped elevate caviar 414 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: in Europe from a thing king spat out to a 415 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: much desired item among the European aristocracy. The Varkis tried 416 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: caviar in Russia in the seventeen eighties and wheels started 417 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: turning in his brain. He figured out how to preserve 418 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: and transport the eggs in the Mediterranean, and by the 419 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: time of his death he was a millionaire of cavier. 420 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: But not all caviar was expensive. As we discussed in 421 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: our bar Snacks episode. Yes the bar Snacks episode, salty 422 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: caviar was sometimes served as a complimentary lunch item at 423 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: saloons to encourage drinking in early nineteenth century America. Salt 424 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: makes you thirsty, drink morsh. This was largely possible because 425 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: there were so many sturgeons populating North American waters. The 426 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: flesh of sturgeon cop from the Hudson River was so 427 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: plentiful it was known as Albany beef. Yeah. German immigrants 428 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: are generally credited with introducing a taste for caviar to 429 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: the United States, particularly in the Midwest, but Native Americans 430 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: were eating caviar wall along before any immigrants arrived, and 431 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: in some cases fed it to their babies. Yeah. One. 432 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: Henry Shocked, an immigrant from Germany, took note of people 433 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: enjoying caviar and saw hey a business opportunity. In eighteen 434 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: seventy three, he started shipping caviart to Europe, priced at 435 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: a dollar a pound. Several others did the same in 436 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: the wake of his success, enough so that the US 437 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: became the world's largest exporter of caviar with the nineteen 438 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: centuries end. But twist, but twist, twist. Because European saw 439 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: business opportunity to some enterprising and perhaps less than scrupulous 440 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: individuals took that apported American caviar, relabeled it Russian caviare, 441 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: which was highly more expensive, and shifted it right back 442 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: to the US yep, and they were also very successful. 443 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,239 Speaker 1: The state of Pennsylvania reported that up to nine of 444 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: European imported Russian caviare actually originated in the United States. 445 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: Around the end of the eight hundreds, yeah wild love it. Yeah. 446 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: In parallel, the numbers of North American sturgeon dropped dramatically, 447 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: nearly to extinction. This translated to an exorbitant increase in 448 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: price for caviare. By the eighteen nineties nineteen hundreds, caviar 449 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: had become much more high end in the United States, 450 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: and it also course corrected a little bit that um 451 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: in that most caviar labeled as Russian did legit come 452 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: from Russia. Russia's communist government took control of the Caspian 453 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: fishery where two thirds of Russian caviar originated. It's three 454 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: thousand times a year and nineteen hundred. This takeover was violent, 455 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: resulting in several executions. Um yeah. Following this, in the 456 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, the USSR started the very first sturgeon farming 457 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: operations in the world. Skipping ahead to the nineteen sixties, 458 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: China decided to get in on the caviar game. After all, 459 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: a species of sturgeon were plentiful in the Amoor River, 460 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: which is the boundary between Russia and China. And from 461 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: what I understand, it's sort of a story of like 462 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: of like hope for peace um or at least like 463 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: fortitude through financial gain. Anyway, because like this was the 464 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: height of the Cold War, right, and so China Russia 465 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: relations were strained to violent China US relations were super 466 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: strained as well. Um. But China pulled together the sturgeon 467 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: fishing and egg harvesting industry with help from American corporations 468 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: and Russian experts caviar. The power of the power of caviar. 469 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: Caviar prices reached such heights that people in the United 470 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: States started searching for domestic alternatives In the nineteen sixties. Yeah, 471 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: and they weren't the only ones. The Russian caviart companies 472 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: started selling cheaper options in the eighties like salmon row 473 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: red zammon caviar, lumpfish and whitefish are golden whitefish caviar. 474 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: But but yeah, surgeon caviare was still a big ticket 475 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 1: item in Russia. And in nine this is another one 476 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: where they're conflicting histories. Um, there was this big scandal. 477 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: It came out that a whole rang of employees within 478 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: the Soviet Unions Ministry of Fish Industry had been running 479 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: like a decade long scam. They had been purposefully mislabeling 480 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: these huge cans of caviare is smoked herring like a 481 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: different Different articles published in the American press say either 482 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: three to five kilo cans or three to five leader cans. 483 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: Either way, a lot of caviare mislabeling it as smoked herring, 484 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: shipping it out of the country for relabeling in sale 485 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: in the Europe and the US um and saving the 486 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: profits in Swiss bank accounts. But like huge scandal like 487 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: forced the resignation of the dude who had been in 488 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: charge since the nineteen forties, rumor had at the up 489 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: to two employees were arrested. Like the penalty for this 490 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: kind of like money involving scam was death by firing squad. 491 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: And supposedly the whole ring broke when um like mislabeled 492 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: cans would ocasionally link into the local market and give 493 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: some random shopper a big surprise, a very very very 494 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: pleasant surprise. But apparently the wrong man got the wrong can, 495 00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: and a surprised police investigator pulled the whole thing down. Wow, dang, no, 496 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 1: I want to do a whole episode just on that. 497 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: Oh gosh. Um. Yeah, And I couldn't figure like the 498 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: story kind of disappeared, like I couldn't figure out what 499 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: happened in the wake of it, And I'm wondering if 500 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: it was all just like weird misinformation. Anyway, Throughout all 501 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: of this, you may have noticed that we haven't mentioned 502 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: the other major power that borders the Caspian Sea, what's 503 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: now Iran. It wasn't until after the Iranian Revolution sometimes 504 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: called the Islamic Revolution in nineteen seventy nine, following decades 505 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: of political and religious and economic turmoil, that Sturgeon was 506 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: reclassified as a scaled fish and thus okay for devout 507 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: Muslims to handle. And supposedly the change was made because 508 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: of the trade value of caviare in the early eighties, 509 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: they were like, we can export this if it's okay 510 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: for us to handle. So let's talk about that. We 511 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: just had a whole revolution. Let's yeah. But the collapse 512 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union in the nineteen nineties, caviar prices 513 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: plummeted in Russia. You could even buy it from peddler's 514 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk in a large international black market in 515 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: parts supplied by caviar poachers flourished, severely, threatening the population 516 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: of Caspian surgeon. Several descriptions like in this Russian caviar 517 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: black market to the illegal drug market in the United States. 518 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: And I can't really overstate how devastating this was to sturgeon, 519 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: Like the collapse of the USSR was the worst possible 520 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: thing that could have happened for these fish. Um it 521 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: really led to the complete over fishing that has led 522 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: to the endangerment of these species today. Yeah, and again 523 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: the book we mentioned at the top of this segment, 524 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: go read it is so illustrative of that because she 525 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: the author interviews people who have been in the industry 526 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: for decades in some cases a long time, and they're 527 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: just so they have hope, keep thinking it's going to 528 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: bounce back, and it just hasn't and hasn't, hasn't, And 529 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: scientists are saying, no, it's not unless we change things. 530 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: We change a lot. Yeah, and some things are changing, 531 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: which we will get to in a second. But we 532 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: do have a little bit more of scandal. Scandal. In 533 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen nineties, Arnold Hanson Sturn, president of Hans 534 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: and cavir Co, sold three thousand pounds of a legal 535 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: caveat for a total of around two million dollars YEP. 536 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: When he was caught. He only served eighteen months in jail, 537 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: and he and the company combined paid about twenty thousand 538 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: and finds that also differs depending on what you read. 539 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: I believe he's back in the basins. In The Convention 540 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: on International Trade and Endangered Species or c i t 541 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: e S put in place regulations around the global sturgeon 542 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: and caviart trade, and those regulations do help thanks to 543 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: to those and the Endangered Species Act. In the year 544 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: two thousand, the US Fish and Wildlife Service seized a 545 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: ton of illegally imported caviare and find the importers over 546 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: ten million dollars they destroyed. The caviare hurts, It does hurt. 547 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: Beginning in two thousand, Russia started implementing regulations to crackdown 548 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: on poaching and overfishing, and this led to a number 549 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: of bloody conflicts between poachers and officials. Apparently the local 550 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: Russian like caviar mafia used their wives and children as 551 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: human shields in this one attack on the coast Guard 552 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: to recover confiscated boats and equipment. Oh my gosh, hoof. 553 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: In two thousand, the United Nations Conservation Council and Caspian 554 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: Sea States banned the export of wild caviare to Europe, 555 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: followed in two five by that U s Beluga caviar Band. 556 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: This resulted in our rise of farmed caviare, especially from Italy, 557 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: Iran and here in the United States California. In two 558 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: thousand eight, researchers conducted an experiment with caviare and which 559 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: participants were asked to evaluate the taste of caviare labeled 560 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: rare versus some labeled as common, and as you can 561 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: probably guess, the caviare was actually the same but people 562 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: largely expressed a preference for the caviar labeled rare humans humans, funny, 563 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: what are you up to? Um? As of this thirty 564 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: year sturgeon research program in Japan finally came to fruition 565 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: and began selling caviare commercially, So we now have commercial 566 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: caveat coming out of Japan. And that's also around when 567 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: China's production of and market four caviare began booming to 568 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: where it is today. In even a Chinese company got 569 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: this contract with German airline I never know how to 570 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: say it, Leftonsa, thank you Leftanza. Um. Yeah, they got 571 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: this contract with Leftansa to provide caviare for its first 572 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: class cabins. And so that's when the global luxury market 573 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: kind of started taking Chinese happy are seriously. And as 574 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen, Atlantic sturgeon populations seem to be starting 575 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: to bounce back, um, thanks to thirty years of environmental 576 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: efforts to restore their habitats and prevent h fishing of them. Yeah, 577 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: and there's so much to read about this, and so 578 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: much of it it feels like you're reading a fiction book, 579 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: like this character can't possibly exist in this world of sturgeon. Yeah, 580 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: but it does. I'm thinking of one person in particular, 581 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: and if you you go look into the research you'll 582 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: know who I'm talking about. But yeah, the numbers got 583 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: so low in the situation, so bad. So this is 584 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: it's promising that we're starting to see some results from 585 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: the people who've been in this field and working on 586 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: it and trying so hard to be heard. Yeah, and 587 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: it's you know again, like it comes it comes down 588 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 1: to money so much, because there are so many other 589 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: species that have not had this amount of work put 590 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: into their health and welfare because they're not producing. Cave 591 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: are so most expensive food in the world, so screw them. Um. Yeah, 592 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: it's real nice that people are working on a solution 593 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: for this animal. I wish that more animals were being 594 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: given similar treatment. But yeay, surgeons, surgeons. I do. They 595 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: are cute in a weird way. I really am very 596 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: fond of catfish. I think they're adorable, so so yeah. 597 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: And these guys have a little like like whisker kind 598 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: of things too, so yeah, yeah, and I do. It 599 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: is fascinating to me when foods like this become the 600 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: cultural icon almost that they are, that it is fancy 601 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: and wealth and luxury, and that eating it somehow gives 602 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: you that imparts that to you, it's aspiration and all. Yeah, Undy, 603 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: do I have aspiration that we'll get to try some 604 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: one day. But in the meantime, we do have a 605 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: little bit more for you. But first we've got another 606 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 607 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, we're back with listen. 608 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: I would do the trans Atlantic accent at any opportunity, 609 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: any opportunity. We were both also holding cigars and cigars 610 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: without really communicating, we just knew if you do the 611 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: Transatlantic you need something in your hand, either like Martini glass, 612 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: jimping glass, or a little cigarette. Oh yeah, what was 613 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: yours of Martini glass? Okay, okay, I think mine was 614 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: a cigar. Well, we were, We were on the same page. 615 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: Asha wrote, just listen to the Baileief episode and laughed 616 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: at the conspiracy section. I don't know how much they 617 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: truly affect the flavor of my meals, because I definitely 618 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: used the dry kind. I need to get fresh, and 619 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 1: I tend to use a lot of other spices as well. 620 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: But when I was a kid and was having dinner, 621 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: at a friend's house. The mom said, you know the tradition, 622 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: whoever gets the bay leaf in their bowl has to 623 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: kiss the cook. And I just thought this was the 624 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: cutest tradition ever. So now I always stick at least 625 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: one in my soup, sauces, etcetera, then make sure it 626 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: ends up in my fiance's bowl, so he has to 627 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: give me a kiss. He always rolls his eyes that 628 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: I did it on purpose, but kisses me anyway. That's love, 629 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: That's so sweet. Bailey Baileyaflow Robert wrote a couple of 630 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: years back, we found out about a somewhat local candy 631 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: company that has cane making demonstrations. In December, we packed 632 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: up our four year old niece and took her to 633 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: a candy store best aunt and uncle. They had a 634 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 1: huge glass window for people to watch as they made 635 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: candy canes and candy bowls, Yes, bowls made from candy 636 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: cane ropes, starting with that yellowish molten sugar. I had 637 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: no idea how they made the white color myself, so 638 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: color me shocked. And the worker took the yellow soft 639 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: candy and worked it on a hook on the wall 640 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: like taffy to turn it white. After twisting and thinning it. 641 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: They brought out straight links for all the kids to 642 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: form into their own shapes. After the demonstration, we then 643 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,879 Speaker 1: tried to control ourselves and not buy everything we saw. 644 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: They had some interesting flavors of candy canes. One of 645 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: my favorite was sassafras. We also picked up some ribbon 646 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: candy I think the same material as candy canes, flattened 647 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: and twisted like a barber pole. Later that day, some 648 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: of those pieces were used as the chimney for our 649 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: Gingerbread house. Just to shout out to Purity Candy in 650 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: Central Pennsylvania. That sounds cool. That does sound cool. Anytime 651 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: there's a demonstration, I'm super in for it. I know. 652 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: I always love when I want by one of those 653 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: candy places as those demonstrations and it's all kids and 654 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: it's just me, and I'm equally pressed up and riveted 655 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: space against the glass looking at the other kids. You're 656 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: seeing this check it out, Gas being alone, I would 657 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: love to check this out. I mean, I'm not a 658 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: big fan of candy canes, but I would love to 659 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: see how they're made. Absolute Yes, thanks to both of 660 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: those listeners. Shore writing in if you would like to 661 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 1: write to us. You can Our email is hello at 662 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: favorit pod dot com. We're also on social media. You 663 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at savor 664 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: pod and we do hope to hear from you. Savor 665 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: is production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media. For 666 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the 667 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,919 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 668 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Thanks as always, Toy superproducers Dylan 669 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and 670 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: we hope that lots more good things are coming your 671 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: way