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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're still

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Speaker 1: loving life in America's hat, We're knee deep and poutine

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Speaker 1: and Tim Horton's and the only Orange Monarchs in sight

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Speaker 1: are the butterflies in our hotel garden. It's Thursday, June nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: Happy June teenth. On today's show, we'll be chatting with

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Speaker 1: women's soccer statistician and historian Jen Cooper and her Hoopstats

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Speaker 1: contributor Richard Cohen about the behind the scenes work that

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Speaker 1: goes into keeping track of records, rules, stats and salary

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Speaker 1: caps in the WNBA and NWSL. Plus a cap worthy

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Speaker 1: claim to fame, expert tips on spread and sheets, and

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Speaker 1: a record that might not ever need updating.

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Speaker 2: It's all coming up right after this joining us now.

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Speaker 1: She's a researcher for the World Cup in the Olympics

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Speaker 1: and the official historian for the NWSL. She's the keeper

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Speaker 1: of keeper Notes, the only place NWSL fans can find

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Speaker 1: comprehensive statistics and records for every year of the league's history,

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Speaker 1: and she runs wo so Nostalgia, a YouTube channel featuring

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Speaker 1: a bunch of games from things like w USA and

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Speaker 1: conk CAF. She can tell you how many NWSL keepers

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Speaker 1: have recorded five hundred or more saves, It's five. The

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Speaker 1: number of players who have scored four goals in a

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Speaker 1: single game, it's three. And how many regular season minutes

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Speaker 1: Abbi dal Kemper has played in her NWSL career so far.

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Speaker 1: It's thirteen, three hundred and thirty seven. It's Jen Cooper, Hi, Jen.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Sarah, I am so impressed with your stats. Well,

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Speaker 3: I'm great with yours. You can take my job.

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Speaker 1: Also joining us, He's a contributor to Her Hoopstats and

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Speaker 1: the Her Hoop Stats podcast. The man behind the now

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Speaker 1: defunct website WNBA leen dot com, an independent site that

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Speaker 1: covered women's professional basketball across the globe. He's a must

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Speaker 1: follow on Blue Sky for all his live WNBA game commentary.

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Speaker 1: Everything he says sounds smarter because of his accent. We

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Speaker 1: go out now to London for Richard Cohen.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Richard, Hi, Sarah, And yeah, I wondered how you

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Speaker 4: were going to follow that intro for Jane. I don't

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Speaker 4: think I have quite quite the same level of qualifications,

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Speaker 4: but I'll try to use the accent to make it

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Speaker 4: sound better.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I would say that British people can account for

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Speaker 1: so many shortcomings just by using that accent.

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Speaker 2: In America, we barely notice anything else.

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Speaker 1: You both have tremendous backgrounds, and you both offer a

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Speaker 1: lot to a space that oftentimes is lacking in that

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Speaker 1: statistics and record keeping in women's sports. So that's why

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Speaker 1: you're here. I want to talk about that. Jen, Can

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Speaker 1: you explain how you got interested in the.

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Speaker 2: Record keeping in stats side of soccer.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've always been kind of into archives. I think

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Speaker 3: that's why I was a yearbook editor in high school

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Speaker 3: and in college and just liked tracking things like looking

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Speaker 3: at the history, and so that was already in me

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Speaker 3: when you know, the soccer bug got me first in

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Speaker 3: ninety four and then of course in ninety nine and

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Speaker 3: really exploded with the birth of the WSA. But it

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Speaker 3: really wasn't until about ten years later when the US

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Speaker 3: women were playing in Houston, you know where I'm based,

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Speaker 3: and I was just curious about like, how big you know,

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Speaker 3: so this was a good crowd, how big is this

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Speaker 3: relative to previous games? And I started building this spreadsheet

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Speaker 3: and I just kept going over the years because I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, how many times have they done this?

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Speaker 3: When this has happened. Oh well, I need to add

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Speaker 3: a new column to this spreadsheet.

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Speaker 2: How about this, you know?

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Speaker 3: And then when the Dash came to town, I was lucky

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Speaker 3: enough to be the analyst for the first three seasons

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Speaker 3: when all the games were live and free on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: And you know, since the league started really small and

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Speaker 3: started very quickly, you know, didn't have a lot of resources,

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Speaker 3: so there wasn't a lot of stats that the league

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Speaker 3: could give give me in the in the play by

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Speaker 3: play announcer. But so I started tracking. I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'll start you know, digging up you know, info for myself,

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Speaker 3: and it just it kept going and going, and I

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Speaker 3: had a lot of friends in Houston that said, you know,

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Speaker 3: this is really interesting stuff. Why don't you put this

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Speaker 3: together in something for fans. And so in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: that's when I started publishing the Keeper Notes Almanac that

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Speaker 3: had all the NWSL data, and I've just built it

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Speaker 3: over the year, started actually printing it in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 3: First it was just PDF and it remains a labor

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Speaker 3: of love. It is not something that you know.

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Speaker 1: Why but why in the labor of love, Because listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking it's short

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Speaker 1: sighted of the NWSL when they started to not immediately

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Speaker 1: have someone in that job with the belief that their

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Speaker 1: league would last and it'd be worth keeping track of things.

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Speaker 1: But knowing that they didn't do that, now they've got

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Speaker 1: someone on the job who's offering it up, So why

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Speaker 1: not hire you for that?

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Speaker 2: Well, they did, they did.

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Speaker 3: They had a stat service in the beginning, They didn't

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Speaker 3: have the funds in the very beginning to have a

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Speaker 3: lot of stuff that's available now. This stuff wasn't available

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Speaker 3: ten years ago period in terms of the elaborate analytical

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Speaker 3: stats and the coverage. So what I was doing. What

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Speaker 3: I was doing was compiling. I don't want to diss

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Speaker 3: the Andy Russell and say people they didn't do it.

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Speaker 3: They were doing it. They just you know, that league

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Speaker 3: started so quickly, so suddenly. But what was great once

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen came around and you had A and E

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Speaker 3: get into the league, that's when boom, like they hired

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Speaker 3: a real stat service, right, and a much better website

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Speaker 3: and all these things. And we're seeing that progress now

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Speaker 3: where I come in is really filling in those holes

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Speaker 3: of those first three seasons that aren't on the same bandwidth,

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Speaker 3: and it's very similar to all the tracking that I've

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Speaker 3: done with US Soccer that there's really good records going

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Speaker 3: back to the Olympics in ninety six, right, but that

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Speaker 3: first decade, especially because it's basically pre Internet, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: and we forget that before the ninety four World Cup,

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Speaker 3: US Soccer did not have money. So it's not like

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of great men's records and no women's record.

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Speaker 3: It's just the records are just really a spotty.

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Speaker 1: So it starts out as a passion project. And now

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a job. You do the work independently,

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Speaker 1: but you also work for several outlets.

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Speaker 2: So who do you work for now? And where have

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Speaker 2: you worked in the past where you've sort of held

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Speaker 2: this statistician role.

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Speaker 3: Let's see, I haven't had a statistician, a paid statistician

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Speaker 3: role before this, but for a long time I was

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Speaker 3: the like the main stat person for my alma mater

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Speaker 3: for this annual event called beer Bikes, which you just

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Speaker 3: you just have to google, but it's it's a relay

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Speaker 3: erase where somebody chugs and then somebody rides a bike,

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Speaker 3: and I was I was the keeper of all of

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Speaker 3: you know, who won, what year, how many people had streaks, what,

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Speaker 3: what were the records? And so I did that for

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Speaker 3: a long time. So my background is actually graphic design.

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Speaker 2: So you're not.

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Speaker 1: Working for Anny Networks now in that capacity, you're just

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Speaker 1: doing your website stuff.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a contractor, uh for for Andy Broussel, you know,

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Speaker 3: year round, mostly helping broadcast, right, so so that all

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Speaker 3: the notes are ready, so all clubs if they have

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Speaker 3: a question, especially the older clubs that have so much data,

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Speaker 3: it's like, wait, is this the first time we've done this,

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Speaker 3: Like no, this happened in twenty fourteen, you know. And

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Speaker 3: I have a couple of great people helping me out,

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Speaker 3: you know, on the stuff, because it's just going to

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Speaker 3: get bigger and bigger, right, we got two more teams

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Speaker 3: coming next year. I also work on occasion as a

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Speaker 3: contractor when there's a big event, right. So I went

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Speaker 3: to France last summer to work the Olympics, following the

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Speaker 3: US team around. Basically I was the stat person in

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Speaker 3: the booth for John Champion and Julie Foudy as they

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Speaker 3: were calling James right, you know. And I have to

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Speaker 3: give props to Julie for dragging me along to France

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Speaker 3: because the previous Olympics I was in the NBC headquarters

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Speaker 3: in Connecticut while the Olympics are.

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Speaker 1: In Why am I not surprised that Foudy made sure

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Speaker 1: to lift and take along with her, including to France.

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Speaker 2: Shee's like, next time you're coming with me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And then and then next month I will

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Speaker 3: be in La supporting the studio show for Fox's covered

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Speaker 3: of the Women's euro Right. So it's like it's that

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Speaker 3: thing as we've all seen in many different kinds of jobs,

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Speaker 3: like once you're known, then everybody is like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: we need to use.

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Speaker 1: So and so well, especially in a space where there

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Speaker 1: aren't a ton of people doing it. And that's part

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Speaker 1: of the issue across women's sports space, and Richard, her

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Speaker 1: hoopstats is filling a hole in the women's basketball space.

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Speaker 1: That's very similar. I remember distinctly a piece from Sue

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Speaker 1: Bird in the Player's Tribune begging for more advanced statistics

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Speaker 1: for the WNBA so that we could have debates about

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Speaker 1: who's the best at corner threes and things like that,

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Speaker 1: and her Hoopstats offers a lot. So can you explain

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Speaker 1: for those who aren't familiar what the site is and

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Speaker 1: the work that you do for them.

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Speaker 4: Well, the site is sort of an effort to make

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Speaker 4: advanced stats available about the women's game that weren't really

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Speaker 4: there until we started up in twenty seventeen. I wasn't

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Speaker 4: there in twenty seventeen, but when Aaron Buzzilai, our founder

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Speaker 4: and who still runs the place, started the website because

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Speaker 4: he used to work it as the director of analytics

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Speaker 4: for the seventy six ers in Philadelphia and before that

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Speaker 4: with the Grizzlies, and a friend of his came to

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Speaker 4: him and said the friend was working with Tennessee with

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Speaker 4: the Lady Vols and said, I'm used to having all

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Speaker 4: of these statistics at my fingertips from the men's game.

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Speaker 4: Is there anywhere that does this for the women? And

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Speaker 4: Aaron looked around and said, no, there isn't and that

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Speaker 4: led to him essentially making up her hoopstats. And Yeah,

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Speaker 4: when I was talking to him in preparation for this recording,

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Speaker 4: he mentioned that same bird article as something that he

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Speaker 4: went back to and was surprised no one had done

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Speaker 4: anything in response to that. Even when she said that,

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Speaker 4: there was very little reaction to it. So, yeah, her

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Speaker 4: Hoopstats was sort of to try and create something like

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Speaker 4: a sports basketball reference for the women's game. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's been a steadily growing effort since then. It sort

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Speaker 4: of started as a as just a stat site and

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Speaker 4: a social media presence, and then since then, people like

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Speaker 4: me you've come along and it's added articles, podcasts, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of extra stuff, all of our work on

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Speaker 4: the CBA and the salary cap, information that you can't

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Speaker 4: get anywhere else except from the people that copy us.

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Speaker 1: Not exactly people like you, though, because Richard, I want

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Speaker 1: to know how someone like you gets into the WNBA

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Speaker 1: from across the pond.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I get that question quite a lot, as you

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Speaker 4: might imagine, and I don't have a great answer for it.

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Speaker 4: The tournament I mentioned is this thing we used to

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Speaker 4: have over here because basketball isn't big in the UK,

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Speaker 4: but there used to be a tournament called the WYICB

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Speaker 4: which was held over New Years each each year, and

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Speaker 4: they played men's basketball, women's basketball, juniors, and wheelchair basketball

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Speaker 4: all in the same tournament, all on the same court,

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Speaker 4: one after the other, going from one to the other.

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Speaker 4: And I think that was part of sort of ingraining

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Speaker 4: in me that it was all the same that like

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Speaker 4: one wasn't the proper version of the sport, and one

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Speaker 4: was this sort of other that you didn't have to

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Speaker 4: pay attention to. So that meant when the WNBA started

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Speaker 4: up in the late nineties, I was interested and yeah

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Speaker 4: started following it. Then there was a gap there because

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Speaker 4: we were sort of pre streaming, so it was very

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Speaker 4: difficult to follow given that I wasn't in the US right.

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Speaker 4: But once that advanced a bit and it was actually

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Speaker 4: possible to follow the game and get back I got

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Speaker 4: back into it sort of in the mid two thousands,

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Speaker 4: and Yeah. From there it just sort of developed from

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Speaker 4: a fandom into sort of posting on forums and things

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Speaker 4: like that, and then eventually sort of thinking, I'm posting

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Speaker 4: these massive comments on forums, I might as well turn

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Speaker 4: them into articles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or get paid for it. Do this for my job.

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Speaker 4: Well, getting paid for It's still kind of difficult. A

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Speaker 4: lot of people trying to cover women's basketball have found

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Speaker 4: it's hot, still hard to make it your primary job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 1: What's the biggest challenge you've encountered, gen when it comes

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Speaker 1: to trying to stat keep and track in soccer.

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Speaker 3: Really the biggest challenge is connecting the older stats to

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Speaker 3: the newer stats. Right, so we have data from twenty

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Speaker 3: sixteen onwards. That's that's great, right. Once once Sandy Bissel

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Speaker 3: made the jump with that with A and E coming

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Speaker 3: in as a twenty five percent investor, of course that's

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Speaker 3: all changed out, but that that kind of made this

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Speaker 3: big leap into Okay, we have a real live stat

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Speaker 3: service and we're going back and analyzing these things like like,

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Speaker 3: that was a huge step. But to connect to those

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Speaker 3: first three seasons twenty thirteen to fifteen has been problematic,

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Speaker 3: partly because those are the games where, especially that first season,

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Speaker 3: you know, you may only have four cameras some of

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Speaker 3: those some of those games just didn't.

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Speaker 1: It just had issues, Right, there's a whole assist that

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Speaker 1: just comes from offscreen, like who was it?

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Speaker 2: God knows?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so like we need to add all that

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Speaker 3: data to the main database. But there's going to be

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Speaker 3: data that we cannot get from those those games, right,

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Speaker 3: just because you're you're not going to be able to.

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Speaker 2: See Yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Now, thankfully, almost every one of those games still exists

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Speaker 3: in their entirety on YouTube. I thought that was one

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Speaker 3: of the most brilliant decisions the NWSL made early on

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Speaker 3: was all right, we don't have a TV deal. Games

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Speaker 3: are all free live on YouTube worldwide. You know that

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Speaker 3: that that was brilliant. But I think it's that connecting

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Speaker 3: that final piece to our current data that's the last

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Speaker 3: thing that that that's going to be a hiccup. Right,

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Speaker 3: Once we have that, it'll be much easier for any

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Speaker 3: of the older clubs to be able to do just

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Speaker 3: a you know, easy query of who has the most

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Speaker 3: minutes for this club. You're right, because if you if

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Speaker 3: you have one of the older clubs, they've got a

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Speaker 3: they've got.

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Speaker 2: To two distincts data. Yeah, Richard, what about you?

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Speaker 1: Biggest challenge when it comes to stack keeping or keeping

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Speaker 1: track of things in the W.

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Speaker 4: I think the stat keeping has gotten relatively straightforward, possibly

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Speaker 4: partly because basketball is more geared towards keeping stats in

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Speaker 4: the first place. That sort of soccer becoming a stat

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Speaker 4: based sport is something that's fairly new, even in like

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Speaker 4: major men's leagues, never mind on the women's side. But

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Speaker 4: sort of the major challenges are more sort of beyond

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Speaker 4: the stats, sort of getting people who actually talk to

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Speaker 4: us talk to us about sort of information and sources

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Speaker 4: about rules and things like that, and getting the league

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Speaker 4: to tell anyone anything. Basically always been very very secretive

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Speaker 4: about everything, which is why half of my job, well

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Speaker 4: not really my job, half of what I end up

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Speaker 4: doing at the moment is answering questions on social media

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Speaker 4: when people say is this legal? What's going to happen next?

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Speaker 4: Because no one at the league bothers to tell anybody anything.

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Speaker 2: So well, that brings me to my next question.

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Speaker 1: Actually, because technically WNBA salaries are private, so whenever a

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Speaker 1: team signs a player, there's usually a line at the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the press release that says, per team policy,

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Speaker 1: terms of the deal, we're not disclosed. But then if

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Speaker 1: you go log in her hoopstats just a few minutes later,

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Speaker 1: you can find the.

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Speaker 2: Details of the deal that were not disclosed.

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Speaker 1: They have been disclosed, and they're beautifully laid out charts

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Speaker 1: detailing how much each player on each team is making

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Speaker 1: and how long their contract is for.

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Speaker 2: And that's really helpful for us.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain how this technically private information becomes public

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Speaker 1: on her hoopstats?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I would my basic got so that would

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Speaker 4: be the same way that they become public in the

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Speaker 4: NFL or the NBA or Major League Baseball or anything

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Speaker 4: like that. You talk to people, you find sources, and

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Speaker 4: you try to get the information out there. Fortunately, when

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Speaker 4: you spend as long around the league as I have

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Speaker 4: and you try to say intelligent things, this is a

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Speaker 4: small enough community that eventually people sort of gain some

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Speaker 4: confidence in you and are willing to talk to you, because, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is a small league and a small groups where

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Speaker 4: everyone kind of talks to each other. Even though it's

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Speaker 4: obviously growing. I mean, we've seen a massive explosion in

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Speaker 4: fan interest the last few years, but in terms of

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Speaker 4: people who are sort of embedded within the league, this

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Speaker 4: is still quite a tight group of people that know

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Speaker 4: each other a lot and talk to each other. So, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we source it and then we try and put it together. Again,

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Speaker 4: you need to know the rules as well, because different

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Speaker 4: contracts are different numbers for all sorts of weird CBA reasons.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that's part of why it is better than

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Speaker 4: anyone who's copied us, because we actually know the rules

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Speaker 4: that are being followed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think also the idea that the

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Speaker 1: WNBA is better off being so withholding is very antiquated.

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Speaker 1: There are so many discussions that fans want to have

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Speaker 1: about leagues, they want to play GM They want to

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Speaker 1: know how much each player is making so that they

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Speaker 1: can argue whether should.

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Speaker 2: Be traded or kept or moved, or if they're pulling

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Speaker 2: their weight.

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Speaker 1: And I think we're at the point now where the

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Speaker 1: WNBA has to address and understand that the more information

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Speaker 1: that's out there, the more conversations and debates and conflicts

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Speaker 1: can be discussed in a way that's really beneficial to

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Speaker 1: making the sport feel as valuable as some of the longer,

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Speaker 1: more storied brands. NWSL player salaries also are not public.

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Speaker 1: There is an internal database that players have access to

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Speaker 1: which is meant to help with contract negotiations, but no

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Speaker 1: one has yet made a move to make that info

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Speaker 1: public like it is on her hoopstats for the WNBA.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that NWSL could benefit from more transparency

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Speaker 1: on player salaries in the same way.

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Speaker 3: I definitely think it could benefit. But of course, you know,

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Speaker 3: the obstacle is the end of cell Players Association would

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Speaker 3: have to agree to make those public. Right, just just

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Speaker 3: the fact that the players can now see internally what

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Speaker 3: other players are making that's fairly recent, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's I always feel like there's this push and pull

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Speaker 3: between we want these sports. I'm sure Richard feels the

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Speaker 3: same way about Debba. We want these sports that we

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Speaker 3: love and cover to be considered the same way every

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Speaker 3: other men's sport is out there, which comes with, well,

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Speaker 3: you have the eyes looking at your salary and you

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Speaker 3: have people discussing every day that you had a good

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Speaker 3: performance or a bad performance, or you should be trade

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Speaker 3: or stuff like that. But you know, I've also seen,

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Speaker 3: you know, a lot of discussion from fans. It's like, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't you know, I don't think we need to

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Speaker 3: do that, you know, and also the players like I

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Speaker 3: don't want that, right. So it's like I I want

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Speaker 3: the information, right, I want this to be in our

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Speaker 3: daily breath of Yeah they had a great game, No,

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Speaker 3: that was horrible because of the you know, these data

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Speaker 3: points and oh that player is overpaid or she needs

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Speaker 3: to be paid more, she needs to be traded.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's how sports.

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Speaker 3: Gets into you day in day out. That's how that's

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Speaker 3: why there's so many talking head shows for men's football, basketball,

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Speaker 3: stuff like that. The more information you have, the more discussion,

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Speaker 3: the more discussion there is, period.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, a lot of your work is

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Speaker 1: accessible and free on your site, and then your stat

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Speaker 1: almanacs are available for purchase. But because it's your work

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Speaker 1: and not the league's work, most historical NWSL stats are

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Speaker 1: not able to be googled. For example, if I were

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Speaker 1: to google most NWSL career goals, something the folks who

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Speaker 1: work on this podcast have done on more than one occasion.

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Speaker 1: Looking for that, we discovered that the top result is

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Speaker 1: an NWSL news entry from twenty seventeen, so not exactly

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Speaker 1: the up to date info that we're looking for. There,

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Speaker 1: have you ever had conversations with the league about selling

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Speaker 1: your work to them and making it a part of

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Speaker 1: the official NWSL website, therefore a part of more coveraging

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Speaker 1: conversation about the league therefore more likely to pop up

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Speaker 1: in SEO, so that when we search that it comes

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Speaker 1: to the top.

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Speaker 3: Well, I hadn't thought about it from the SEO angle,

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Speaker 3: But they have all, you know, all all my data.

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Speaker 3: They have, you know, everything that I create for them

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Speaker 3: as a contractors is available to them. And I have

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Speaker 3: to give their social media department a huge shout out

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Speaker 3: for the work they don't in the last year and

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Speaker 3: have to really highlight anytime something big happens. Right, Oh

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Speaker 3: my god, that was lynn Lynn Biendelo's you know, seventy ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like this was you know, this is

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Speaker 3: the first time this has happened, this is the youngest.

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Speaker 1: Well, if they're going to post it on social, why

402
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Speaker 1: not have a part of their website that makes it

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Speaker 1: all easy to find.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the next step.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: We've seen a lot of hiring over the last year,

407
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Speaker 3: and this league is growing so fast. I feel like

408
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Speaker 3: sometimes it can't keep up with it keep up with itself, right,

409
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Speaker 3: But that's that's what I would love to see, is

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Speaker 3: that for any media outlet that they can find the

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Speaker 3: answers they need, you know, and anything the league wants

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00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 3: in that I'm you know, happy to help with. But

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Speaker 3: you know, when we think of all the challenges they've

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Speaker 3: been dealing with, you know, with var and all kinds

415
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Speaker 3: of other issues, Like I understand, you know, it's frustrating

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Speaker 3: for me, but I understand how this always gets moved

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Speaker 3: down in pity.

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Speaker 1: It's true, Right, they've got a lot on their plate

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Speaker 1: from trying to professionalize an update based on all the

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Speaker 1: new resources, we.

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Speaker 2: Got to take a quick Break more with Jen and

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Speaker 2: Richard right after this.

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Speaker 1: You know, Richard, we've been talking on our show about

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Speaker 1: the different WNBA contracts, and one of the reasons it's

425
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Speaker 1: hard to sometimes have discussions is because we don't really

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Speaker 1: understand them. Right, there's a guaranteed contract, there's a hardship contract,

427
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Speaker 1: there's a rest of season hardship. There's a rest of

428
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Speaker 1: season contract that's not a hardship contract. Can you just

429
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Speaker 1: give us briefly a summation of the different ways that

430
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Speaker 1: a player can be signed and is there a limit

431
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Speaker 1: on how many have to be or can be guaranteed?

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Speaker 1: Why is there a rest of season and then a

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Speaker 1: rest of season hardship?

434
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 2: Like, how does that work?

435
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 4: Right? Rosters have to be eleven or twelve players base

436
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 4: rosters only a maximum of six of those per team

437
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 4: can be protected.

438
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: Contracts that means guaranteed.

439
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 4: Which means guaranteed.

440
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: Yes, no matter what injury wave cut decides to fly

441
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: after Hawaii.

442
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 2: For a nooner with someone, they're still going.

443
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: To get paid, barring anything in their contract about behavior.

444
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 4: And unless they get hurt overseas, which is obviously a

445
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 4: thing in WNBA because people sometimes play in other leagues

446
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 4: in the WNBA off season. The rest of season contract

447
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 4: confuses people because they then they hear that and they think, well,

448
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 4: the player is going to be there the rest of

449
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 4: the season. Then understandably given the terminology, but especially with

450
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 4: a hardship all that means practically is that the contract

451
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 4: is until the end of the season, but when a

452
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 4: player returns, because hardship's are signed when players get hurt,

453
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 4: so you get those when players are out. When the

454
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 4: main roster player returns, the hardship player has to be released,

455
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 4: so it's only a rest of season contract if that

456
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 4: injured player were to stay injured all season.

457
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: And is there a difference between a regular hardship contract

458
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: and a rest of season hardship contract.

459
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 4: Every hardship contract signed in the first half of the

460
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 4: season will be a rest of season contract. Every hardship

461
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 4: contract signed in the second half of the season will

462
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 4: be a seven day contract until because there are two

463
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 4: rules that come into conflict, you signed three consecutive seven

464
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 4: day contracts with the same team, then you can sign

465
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 4: a rest of season hardship contract after that. Yeah, you

466
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 4: can see why the fans get confused and why teams

467
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 4: don't bother to explain this stuff themselves.

468
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: I was going to say, because sometimes it feels like

469
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: maybe we're looking at the same thing. It's just some

470
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: team rights has signed a rest of season contract and

471
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: some team just sigence has signed a hardship contract.

472
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: And sometimes they're right, completely nonsense in their press releases

473
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 4: as well. In Indiana recently had to release a player

474
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 4: and wrote that she'd been waived in their press release,

475
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 4: wrote twice that she had been And you don't waive

476
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 4: hardship contracts. You release the player because they don't go

477
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 4: through waivers, so it's different terminology. So again, the teams

478
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 4: don't always understand this stuff either, or certainly their PR

479
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 4: departments don't. So yeah, that creates confusion.

480
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: Well, this is why we need you, Richard. I'm not

481
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: going to remember and memorize any of that. I'm just

482
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: going to call you next time I need to know

483
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: what again out.

484
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 4: Oh, I don't expect anyone to.

485
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jenna, I loved learning that you actually helped correct

486
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: the number of caps for none other than world record

487
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: holder for number of caps US women's national team legend,

488
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: Christine Lilly. Can you tell us about that? How do

489
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: you find mysterious uncapped caps.

490
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 3: Well, first you have to be a really big nerd.

491
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: Then you have to have collected many many US Soccer

492
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 3: media guides, all right, And so I was gonna do

493
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: some trivia. I love to do trivia, you know, through

494
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: social media. And the US women were playing in Arizona.

495
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 3: So I was like, okay, I know they've played there

496
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: three times. Maybe I'll do something about that. But I've

497
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: learned working in TV. It's like, but let's always check

498
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 3: the media guide. Don't just sure it's in here, but

499
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 3: let's check the media guide. So I look at the

500
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: media guide and they have it all separated by state,

501
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 3: and I was like, wait, there's these games in nineteen

502
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 3: ninety five. I don't have these in my huge, ridiculously

503
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 3: nerdy spreadsheet. So then I start flipping through the whole thing.

504
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 3: I can't find those nineteen ninety five Arizona games anywhere

505
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: else in the book, right, So then I start checking

506
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: against Christine's game by game thing, and I'm like, wait,

507
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: this is off, Like what if she played in those games?

508
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: And so I reached out to US Soccer and they're like, oh, yeah, yeah,

509
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: we have we have, you know, the game reports for

510
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 3: those games and so when the next media guide came out,

511
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 3: her numbers had adjusted, and I was like, oh my god,

512
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: like I had just kind of talked to it and

513
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: forgotten about it, and then when it the next one

514
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: came out, I was like, ooh, I was.

515
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: Like, it changed. It changed. You know, that's wild. That's

516
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: not just any cap number.

517
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: That is a record that may never be broken, or

518
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: at the very least should be broken correctly if it is,

519
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: which now will it?

520
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: And it took it took like a couple of years

521
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: for it to cycle through the internet for everything to

522
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 3: get threety four. And I was so thrilled that when

523
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 3: when I met Christine Lilly for the first time, the

524
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 3: person who introduced me, I said, will you please tell

525
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 3: her that I changed her cap record?

526
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: I love.

527
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: That's wonderful.

528
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: By the way, Jenna have to ask, have you and

529
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: my producer Alex ever been in the same room at

530
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: the same time, Because the more you talk about your

531
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: spreadsheets and your trivia nights and your nerdiness, the more

532
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: I think that you and Alex may be separated at

533
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: birth or potentially the same person.

534
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: We have not been in the same room at the

535
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 3: same time, but we have texted a lot about very

536
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 3: nerdy stat things.

537
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, good. You guys should have a spreadsheet off sometime, Richard.

538
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: I recently discovered your blue Sky content, and I love

539
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: it in particular because your eye for coverage differs from

540
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: a lot of other folks, not just fans, but media

541
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: as well, including calling out coverage that doesn't feel up

542
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: to the professional standards that it should, for instance, just a.

543
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: Few days as I used to. So I like it.

544
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I'm familiar for it. No, you were watching

545
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: a sky Sun game and you blue skiede. Quote.

546
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: You put the details of the Maybrey trade on the

547
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: screen and don't even mention how vastly important the pick

548
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: swap at the bottom of the list could be. If

549
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: an NBA broadcasted that didn't mention it might move a

550
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: team from number fifteen to number one in the upcoming draft,

551
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: they'd be laughed at end quote.

552
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I wonder if you could.

553
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Talk about the ways that you think coverage isn't up

554
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: to snuff for the most sophisticated viewers and what we

555
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: lose in that, Because, to be honest with you, this

556
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,479
Speaker 1: is my job, and that's one of my teams and

557
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: I hadn't really processed that part of that pick swap

558
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: because it isn't talked about and it isn't written about

559
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: the same way it might be in immen's league.

560
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think there are gaps in the coverage.

561
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously we do, or we probably wouldn't exist.

562
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 4: But the broadcasting of the WNBA has absolutely improved. I

563
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 4: give all of the various channels involved and the people

564
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 4: involved credit for that, but we do still have people

565
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 4: who don't necessarily watch that many games apart from the

566
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: ones that they're working, and don't necessarily aren't as embedded

567
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 4: within thinking about the league and watching the league and

568
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 4: covering the league as you kind of expect an NBA

569
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 4: or an NFL broadcaster to be. You sort of think

570
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 4: if you hear, you know, Richard Jefferson or Doris Burke

571
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: doing the NBA, you kind of expect that if someone

572
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: asked them about a game that was on the previous night,

573
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 4: they'd have watched it, they'd have been at home watching it,

574
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: or they at the very least watch highlights of this game.

575
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: You don't always get that feeling with some of the

576
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: people who work on WNBA games. It's more that they've

577
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 4: done their research, they've invariably talked to the coaches and

578
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 4: things like that. They know they're prepared. They're all prepared,

579
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 4: but they're not as obsessive about the league as you

580
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: sort of expect the men's league broadcasters to.

581
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: Be or potentially have multiple other jobs. Absolutely are the

582
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: rules in order to kind of.

583
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not a dedicated job because like lots of

584
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 4: the writers, Yeah, it's hard to make them make money

585
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 4: and make this your sole career covering a WNBA, which

586
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: you know, we all hope the leagues, these women's leagues

587
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 4: are going to get bigger and bigger, and then people

588
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 4: that will be their only coverage, that will be their focus.

589
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: Well, and I think also it's the way you watch

590
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: and what matters to you, which is why it's so

591
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: necessary to have folks like you two, because it's not

592
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: the way my brain works and watches, but it makes

593
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: the experience more interesting for me when folks like you

594
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: offer things up because of the way you watch. And Jen,

595
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: I wonder if you can still ever watch a game

596
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: for fun or do you always find that your critical

597
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: eye for content and stats is tracking things.

598
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: I think I gave up watching games for fun maybe

599
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 3: twenty years ago. No, no, no, no, but well, okay,

600
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: let me put it this way. Gave up watching for

601
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: from a fan's eye twenty years ago because for me,

602
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: what I'm doing it the way I consume these games,

603
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: it is fun for me. It is fun for me

604
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: to have my laptop with me anytime I'm watching a game.

605
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: A lot of the times I am, you know, running

606
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 3: a live Slack channel with the talent and producers and

607
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: graphics at the time. Sometimes I'm not. It depends, you know,

608
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: on the game, So my engagement level varies. But there's

609
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 3: no way I can just watch a game and not

610
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: have some critical thoughts. Even watching the US Women's game,

611
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, why are they choosing those colors for the score?

612
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: Bug?

613
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 3: What are they thinking?

614
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Right?

615
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 2: Like, it's down to every detail.

616
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: I was just going to say that I watched some

617
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 4: of the games Gens covering as a fan. This is

618
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: a weird crossover. I'm going to be in Switzerland for

619
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 4: the Women's Euros that you're going to be covering from

620
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: the Studio's a little dot in the in the crowd

621
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 4: at the end. So yeah, I still get to watch

622
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: the soccer as a fan. But yeah, I know the

623
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 4: feeling in terms of yeah, I don't. I don't have

624
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 4: a WNBA team and haven't for a long time, which yeah,

625
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: does mean I can be neutral about it all.

626
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, until they expand to Europe, it's going to make

627
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: for some tough travel.

628
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 4: I've been calling for a London team for a long

629
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: time now. I'm not not expecting it anytime soon.

630
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: I will say that, Richard, I have to ask you

631
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: just did or her Hoop Stats podcast about EuroBasket, which

632
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: is something that is huge where you are and mostly

633
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: just a nuisance to us because players leave our w

634
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: teams to go play in it. Can you give us

635
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: the top two reasons we should listen to that podcast

636
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: episode and we should be excited about watching EuroBasket.

637
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 4: I mean the top two reasons are the people that

638
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 4: did it with me, which are Alfred Currier and Robert Mummery,

639
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 4: who both know these teams and players inside out and

640
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 4: gave great coverage of what to expect and what to

641
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 4: see in those games. It's a major tournament, a major

642
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 4: international tournament that these players care about a lot, and

643
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 4: that will be high level basketball with potential upsets because

644
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: Eurobusque involves a lot of teams that are relatively close

645
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 4: to each other in terms of talent level. In that France, Spain,

646
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: Belgium will go in as favorites, but the other teams

647
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 4: are capable of beating them. It's close enough that you

648
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 4: know it's it's not an America up where if the

649
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 4: US sent a full squad they would win most games

650
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 4: by thirty forty points. We're talking about.

651
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong, But France is actually missing

652
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: a lot of players who decided to stay in the

653
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: w and not travel over, so they won't have quite

654
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: the advantage we expected even a month or so ago.

655
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Marine Johannes, Gabby Williams, Carla Lake, Dominique Malongo, who's

656
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 4: obviously gotten.

657
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: A lot of pretty big names.

658
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and France of probably still the favorites, which shows

659
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 4: you how much talent is coming out of France in

660
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 4: the basketball.

661
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: Well, they sure gave the US run for their money

662
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: at the Olympics, so I think we finally woke up

663
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: to that. All right, last question for both of you,

664
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm putting you on the spot, but is there a

665
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: specific statistic in your sport that you have your eye

666
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: on that you think someone is about to break, or

667
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: a team is likely to up end, or a long

668
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: standing stat that is finally ready and ripe to be broken.

669
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: Well, for NWSL, we have now, as of after the

670
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: other night's Kansas City game, we now have four players

671
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: tied for thirty one career assists, and assists don't happen

672
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: as much as goals, right, you know, So it's like, please,

673
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: will somebody just take this record and run?

674
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

675
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 3: So it's Lynn, it's Sophia Huerta, it's the retired Jess McDonald,

676
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 3: and now Vanessa di Bernardo is tied. And I've had

677
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: this queued up, you know, in our you know, milestones

678
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 3: to watch for months.

679
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: Now it's like it's going to take it.

680
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: Somebody take it and run with it.

681
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Everyone stops scoring solo goals using this tricks.

682
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: Yes, just take an assist.

683
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: And bury it from one of those four peoples, please, Richard,

684
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: how about you?

685
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to twist your question a little bit

686
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 4: and say that welcome to We're probably less than a

687
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: year away of somebody shattering the highest salary that we've

688
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 4: recorded since we've been doing this. Because we have a

689
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: collective bargaining agreement negotiation going on at the moment because

690
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 4: the leap, the players Association opted out of the current one,

691
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: which means the current CBA expires after the season that

692
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 4: is being played at the moment, so they need to

693
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 4: get a new one done before next season. We're all

694
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 4: crossing our fingers that that happens without a strike, without

695
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 4: a lockout, because that's not going to be good for anyone.

696
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 4: And yeah, once it does, players could be earning maybe

697
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 4: a million dollars a year. The people have certainly thrown

698
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 4: that out as sort of, yeah, add a zero one

699
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 4: to what we're seeing at the moment, So it'd be.

700
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: Very different, very different, I would imagine, And I don't

701
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: know if there's a record of this that this season

702
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: has the highest number and percentage of players with contracts

703
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: ending in the exact same year.

704
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: Oh yes, we have about because.

705
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: Almost every roster, everybody's contract is done this season, so

706
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: they could take advantage of that CBA yep.

707
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 4: Apart from the players that are on rookie scale contracts,

708
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 4: which are three years plus one, virtually everyone else has

709
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: said I'm not signing beyond twenty twenty five.

710
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: Right, So unless the league started with everybody on a

711
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: one year deal or a three year deal or something

712
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: like that. Unless the very beginning of the w involved

713
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 1: everyone signing the same length of contract, I would guess

714
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: that this would be a statistical anomaly in that category.

715
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 4: It's going to create a ridiculous free agency next year,

716
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 4: assuming we actually get a CBA to allow us to

717
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 4: have it. Yeah, because anyone can sign anyone.

718
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: And we here at this show are very excited about that. Richard, Jen,

719
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: this was so fun. I learned a ton. Thanks so

720
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: much for the time, Thank you, Thanks, thanks again to

721
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: Jen and Richard for taking the time. We got to

722
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: take another break when we come back. What makes a

723
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:16,479
Speaker 1: record untouchable? Welcome back, Slay says, you heard Jen's story

724
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: about getting Christine Lily's cap world record changed from three

725
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: point fifty two to three fifty four international appearances after

726
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: Jen stumbled upon two previously unrecorded games from nineteen ninety five.

727
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: Well that got us thinking, will any other soccer player

728
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: of any gender ever come close to Lily's record? The

729
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: current men's record holder isn't even close. Portugal's Cristiano Ronaldo

730
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: is the only man ever to reach two hundred international appearances,

731
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: and he's currently at two hundred and twenty one. Total

732
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: caps worth noting at forty years old, his biological footy

733
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: clock is ticking, so perhaps another woman well. Canadian star

734
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: Christine Sinclair, who retired last year, has the second most

735
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: caps ever at three hundred thirty one. As for the

736
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: most capped active player, that honor belongs to thirty five

737
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: year old Dutch player Sharita Spitza, who has logged two

738
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: hundred and forty three appearances for the Netherlands since two

739
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: thousand and six. Meantime, on the US national team, thirty

740
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: one year old Lindsay Heaps formerly Iran, has the most

741
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: caps of any US active player, one sixty seven, meaning

742
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: she's still less than halfway to Lily's record of three

743
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: point fifty four, and there's reason to believe that Lily's

744
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: record may never be broken. First, and foremost, her longevity

745
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: is legendary. She played for the US women's national team

746
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: for twenty three years, starting at the age of sixteen,

747
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: but also the world of women's soccer has fundamentally changed

748
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: in Lily's playing days. The national team was essentially the

749
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: only stable postgrad opportunity. In fact, a few years after

750
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: graduating from unc Lily played for the Washington Wart Hogs

751
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: of the now defunct Continental Indoor Soccer League, a men's league.

752
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: She was the only woman at the time.

753
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: Lily went on to play in the semi pro USLW League,

754
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: then the professional WUSA and w the two women's pro

755
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 1: leagues that preceded the NWSL. Lilly also spent some time

756
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: playing at clubs in Europe. Altogether, from ninety four to

757
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, seventeen years of club ball, she played in

758
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: just one hundred eight games. For comparison, mel Swanson reached

759
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: one hundred five games in just seven seasons so far

760
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: with the NWSL. These days, with the NWSL, the English

761
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: Women's Super League and other international leagues thriving, plus in

762
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: season tournaments and interleague cups being added every year, top

763
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 1: players are less reliant on their national team for opportunities

764
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: to play, meaning the number of international games scheduled each

765
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: year has gradually declined and players have more games to

766
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: manage than ever before, and that balance can be seen

767
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: in decisions made by the coaching staff. For example, current

768
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: US women's national team boss Emma Hayes recently announced that

769
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: she's essentially giving all Europe based US national team players

770
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: a quote much needed break this summer and she'll rely

771
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: on players in the NWSL instead. Now, remember the NWSL

772
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 1: in European leagues follow opposite schedules, with the NWSL breaking

773
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: in the winter and the European leagues breaking in the summer.

774
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: Well, what does that mean for someone like Lindsay Heaps.

775
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: Let's take a look at what she's been up to

776
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 2: since the twenty twenty three World Cup.

777
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: Heeps played for the US in the twenty three World

778
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: Cup in Australia and New Zealand from mid July to

779
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: mid August of twenty twenty three. Then she suited up

780
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: for her club side oll Lyon for a friendly in

781
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: late August before their Division Ie Feminine season began in September.

782
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: Heeps played that season while her club Can currently competed

783
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: in Coope.

784
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: De France and UEFA Champions League matches.

785
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: Leon's campaign ended in May twenty twenty four with another

786
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: championship trophy, and from there Heaps was called into the

787
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: US women's national team training camp in June. She played

788
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: Olympic tune up friendly state side in July, then headed

789
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: back to France for the Paris Olympics from late July

790
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: to mid August.

791
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four.

792
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: Then it was back to France for the twenty twenty

793
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: four to twenty five Leon season, and back to the

794
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: US where the she believes cup, and on and on

795
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: and on it goes. That's a lot of mileage to

796
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: put on the body. In an interview with ESPN's Jeff Kasoof,

797
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 1: Emma Hayes said the only Europe based player she expects

798
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: to call it for the team's pair of friendlies against

799
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: Ireland in late June and their match against Canada in

800
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: early July is defender Nami Germa, who currently plays for

801
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: Chelsea and returned from injury earlier this month. Hayes told

802
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: ESPN the decision to arrest players was made using input

803
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: from performance and medical staff, and included analysis of the

804
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: number of minutes players have logged in recent years. We'll

805
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: link to Kasoof's full interview with Hayes in the show notes.

806
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: All that to say, Christine Lily's record feels pretty untouchable.

807
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: But if modern medicine keeps improving, maybe current US women's

808
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: national team teenage phenom Lily Johannes will play into her sixties.

809
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: Never say never. We love that you listen in slices

810
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: but we want you to get in the game every

811
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: day too, so here's our good game play of the day.

812
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: Check out the incredible resources that Jen and Richard have

813
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: poured their hearts into. We've linked to both keeper notes

814
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: and her hoopstats in the show notes. And if you're

815
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: not familiar with the history of June teenth, honored today

816
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: by doing some reading, put some links in our show

817
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: notes to great stories by Henry Lewis Gates Junior and

818
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: Derek Bryceon Taylor. We always love to hear from you,

819
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: so hit us up on email. Good game at Wondermedia

820
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: neetwork dot com. We'll leave us a voicemail at eight

821
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: seven two two o four fifty seventy and don't forget

822
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: to subscribe, rate and review.

823
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: It's easy.

824
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: Watch briefly forgetting You reside in a clown Country, rating

825
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: ten out of ten seconds of ignorant bliss review. Here's

826
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: my exchange with a Canadian barista Me Starbucks US app

827
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: still work here, Barista?

828
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah? Where are you visiting from?

829
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: Me?

830
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: Chicago? Have you been Barista?

831
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 4: No?

832
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: Not yet me. Oh, you have to come.

833
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: It's the best actually, often said to be similar to

834
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: Toronto Barista.

835
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe in a few years.

836
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: Me, Oh yeah, shit, definitely don't come now and ignorant

837
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: bliss bubble burst. Honestly, I'm just grateful I'm still capable

838
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: of forgetting even moment harrily about the whrrors of the

839
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: current time, and that I don't have to be nervous

840
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: when I head back through immigration in the US later tonight.

841
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: I know that's a privilege not everyone has. Now it's

842
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: your turn, rate and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow.

843
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: Good game, Jen, Good game, Richard, you being embarrassed of

844
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: where I'm from. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an

845
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports

846
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You could find us on the iHeartRadio app,

847
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by

848
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.

849
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,

850
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez,

851
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy

852
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: Jones and I'm your host Sarah Spain.