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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello and welcome to the December twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five Q and A episode of Weird Little Guys.

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Speaker 1: I was always planning to do a Q and A

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Speaker 1: episode this month. I think most of the shows in

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Speaker 1: the Cool Zone Media family do one of these around

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Speaker 1: the end of the year, but this one is coming

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Speaker 1: a little early. You probably noticed that there was an

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Speaker 1: unexpected rerun a few weeks ago, and that's because I

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Speaker 1: was very sick. I had some sort of terrible virus

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Speaker 1: and it knocked me out for like two weeks. The

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Speaker 1: worst part was the laryngitis. I was on total vocal

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Speaker 1: rest for more than a week, mostly because I couldn't

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Speaker 1: have made a sound even if I wanted to. It

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Speaker 1: was torture, not just because that's literally my livelihood, but

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Speaker 1: I love talking. I mean, I have to talk for work.

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Speaker 1: You can't make a podcast without talking, but I just

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Speaker 1: love talking recreationally. I never stopped talking, so it was

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Speaker 1: a nightmare. Anyway. I lost two weeks of my life

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Speaker 1: to the blanket fort on the couch. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the general messiness of the holiday season. So I'm all

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Speaker 1: mixed up in backwards but trying to get back on track.

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Speaker 1: We will hit the ground running in the new year

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Speaker 1: with something fun and exciting, but this month is just

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Speaker 1: going to be a hodgepodge of different sorts of episodes.

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Speaker 1: The episode I have planned for next week is a

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Speaker 1: sort of Weird Little Guy round up, just catching up

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Speaker 1: with recent developments in the lives of some of the

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Speaker 1: weird Little Guys I've been checking in on from time

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Speaker 1: to time for years. I originally had this episode and

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Speaker 1: that episode switched on my calendar, but I think waiting

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Speaker 1: one more week might be enough time to get some

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Speaker 1: more updates in some of those stories. So for now,

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Speaker 1: let's get to your questions. I put out a call

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, and I've sorted the questions you

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Speaker 1: all sent in into a few broad categories. Questions about

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Speaker 1: the process of making the show, questions about particular topics

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Speaker 1: you'd like to see covered, and questions about me. I

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Speaker 1: won't be able to answer all of them specifically, but

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Speaker 1: I am going to try to get to at least

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Speaker 1: one of every flavor of questions that you guys had,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, most of what you guys asked is about me.

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Speaker 1: There were relatively few questions about particular weird Little guys,

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Speaker 1: or the actual content of the show, the overwhelming majority

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Speaker 1: of the questions, or about the nitty gritty details of

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Speaker 1: how I make the show, about my life and my

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Speaker 1: process and what I'm doing when I'm not writing the

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Speaker 1: words you hear me saying softly into your headphones every week.

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Speaker 1: I think part of that is just a built in

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Speaker 1: selection bias, Right. The kind of listener is going to

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Speaker 1: bother to send in a question to a podcast isn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily representative of the overall audience, and those listeners are

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Speaker 1: probably more likely to be invested in knowing what goes

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Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. But as I was sifting through

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Speaker 1: those questions, I did spend some time ruminating on the

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Speaker 1: nature of the parasocial relationship that one sided relationship formed

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Speaker 1: in the mind of someone who consumes a piece of

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Speaker 1: mass media. You know, that feeling of friendship and emotional

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Speaker 1: intimacy you feel for someone you've never actually met. It's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing. I'm not calling any of

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Speaker 1: you out. You're okay. It's perfectly normal to feel some

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Speaker 1: level of connection to the people that you see or

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Speaker 1: hear on a regular basis. I think the term has

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Speaker 1: a pretty nasty connotation because usually by the time you're

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Speaker 1: talking about someone's parasocial relationship, it has gotten weird. Like

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Speaker 1: John Hinckley Junior shooting Ronald Reagan because he was in

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Speaker 1: love with Jodie Foster levels of weird, you know. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's anyone with access to the Internet

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Speaker 1: who doesn't have some low level emotional connection to someone

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Speaker 1: they've never met. If you've ever been sad because a

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Speaker 1: dog you follow on Instagram died, buddy, I got news

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Speaker 1: for you. You were in a parasocial relationship with a dog.

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Speaker 1: So as long as you're not neglecting your real life

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Speaker 1: relationships in favor of spending time online obsessing over some

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Speaker 1: stranger who's videos you like to watch, or letting that

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Speaker 1: online strain impact the way you live your life, and

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Speaker 1: you're not slipping into a delusion that they love you back,

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Speaker 1: you're probably fine. The term was coined in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifties by a pair of sociologists who are exploring the

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Speaker 1: ways audiences form these relationships with TV and radio personalities,

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Speaker 1: and in the decades since the ubiquity of mass media

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Speaker 1: and the rise of online influencers, many of whom are

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Speaker 1: intentionally cultivating that sense of intimacy with the audience. It's

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Speaker 1: only intensified the kinds of parasocial connections people are experiencing,

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Speaker 1: and with a podcast, it really is kind of like

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Speaker 1: having a little friend in your ear. Right. We're walking

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Speaker 1: around together and I'm telling you a story. It's just

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Speaker 1: someone chatting away with you while you're doing your dishes

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Speaker 1: or commuting to work. I've been making my living writing

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Speaker 1: for an online audience for almost a decade now, so

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Speaker 1: it's an interesting phenomenon that very much plays a role

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Speaker 1: in my life. So I think it's fascinating. But that's

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Speaker 1: not what we're here to talk about today. You know,

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Speaker 1: I can't resist reading a couple of journal articles for

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Speaker 1: no reason, though, so I'll put a link in the

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Speaker 1: show notes to that original nineteen fifty six article that

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Speaker 1: invented the term, as well as a twenty nineteen university

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Speaker 1: thesis about parasociality specifically in podcasting that I thought was interesting.

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Speaker 1: So those will be there if you want to read

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Speaker 1: more about it. But as far as what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here, I don't mind if you think of me

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Speaker 1: as the friend in your ear for an hour a week.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of nice, but like I say at the

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Speaker 1: end of every episode, just don't post anything that's going

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Speaker 1: to make you one of my weird little guys. Right,

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Speaker 1: And for the listener who asked if that sign off

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Speaker 1: is a direct response to something someone already did, No,

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Speaker 1: it's just a precaution. I've been online long enough to

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Speaker 1: have been on the weird end of a parasocial bond.

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Speaker 1: But the listeners of this show have been pretty normal

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Speaker 1: little guys so far, and I appreciate that about you. All.

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Speaker 1: All that to say, I did notice that trend in

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Speaker 1: the questions, but I'm happy to answer your healthy, boundary

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Speaker 1: respecting questions about the little voice in your ear. Just

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Speaker 1: don't get any weird ideas. Okay, all right, rapid fire,

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Speaker 1: let's knock out some of those questions about me. My docxins,

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Speaker 1: Buck and Otto are doing great. They turned nine in

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Speaker 1: July and they're still going strong. Otto actually just recently

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Speaker 1: celebrated his fourth anniversary as the dog who Conquered Death.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty one, he suffered a ruptured disc

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Speaker 1: in his spine, which is an unfortunate problem many docsins have,

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Speaker 1: and he was diagnosed with stage four intervertebral disease. There

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Speaker 1: was no precipitating injury. His brother doesn't have this problems.

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Speaker 1: It's just bad luck. And back when it happened, we

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Speaker 1: weren't sure he would survive his emergency surgery, and when

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Speaker 1: he did, they told us he would never walk again.

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Speaker 1: But after a few weeks of lying on a blanket

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Speaker 1: wearing a diaper, he got bored of being paralyzed and

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Speaker 1: he just stood up. So we celebrated the anniversary this

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Speaker 1: year by taking him to the beach so he could

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Speaker 1: run a million miles an hour in the sand. He's

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Speaker 1: doing great. Can you see a picture of my office?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not, no, no, but only because it's disgusting. I

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Speaker 1: dumped every piece of clothing I own onto the floor

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Speaker 1: about two years ago because I was about to start

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Speaker 1: sorting through it so I could get rid of the

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Speaker 1: stuff I don't wear anymore. But I never got to

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Speaker 1: the second step up. So my office has had a

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Speaker 1: foot deep pile of laundry that covers half the room,

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Speaker 1: and I've just been stepping over it for two entire years.

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Speaker 1: I am just days away from hanging those curtains I

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Speaker 1: bought a year ago because I thought that would be

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Speaker 1: good for sound dampening or whatever. But at this point

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Speaker 1: I think the laundry pile is actually an integral part

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Speaker 1: of the acoustic environment of the show. I do have

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Speaker 1: a desk, but I do not sit at it because

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Speaker 1: it has covered an old male. I write and record

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Speaker 1: the entire show in an Ikea chair I found next

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Speaker 1: to someone's trash can, and one of the bulbs in

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Speaker 1: the overhead light has been burnt out since spring. I

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Speaker 1: think I just closed the door to my podcasting cave.

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Speaker 1: When people come over, no one is allowed to see it.

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Speaker 1: I think this question might have something to do with

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Speaker 1: the fact that Ed Zitron, the host of Better Offline,

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Speaker 1: has posted pictures of the like incredible professional greed podcasting

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Speaker 1: studio he built inside of his home. I don't have that.

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Speaker 1: I don't have what Ed has. That's phenomenal for him,

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Speaker 1: that's so weird. I love that for him. I have

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Speaker 1: an Ikea chair that I found on the curb. What

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Speaker 1: is my go to snack and drink when I'm working

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Speaker 1: on the show. Hmm, another disappointing answer. I fear the

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Speaker 1: windowsill next to my trash chair has at least four

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Speaker 1: cans of seltzer on it at all times, the cans

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Speaker 1: are at varying levels of emptiness and flatness. Right now,

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Speaker 1: there are four cans. None of them are the same

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Speaker 1: brand somehow, and one of them has definitely been open

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Speaker 1: since early November. I am going to finish it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not responsible for the food situation, thank god. My husband

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Speaker 1: usually tiptoes in to deliver these beautiful little snack plates

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Speaker 1: with fruit and cheese, and he's done pretty much all

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Speaker 1: of the cooking around here ever since the show launched,

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Speaker 1: and I became a round the clock computer gremlin in

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Speaker 1: my podcasting cave, and that brings us to my husband.

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Speaker 1: Several of you asked about him. He's great. If you're

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Speaker 1: a longtime listener, you know that I took some time

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Speaker 1: off in May to get married and go on a honeymoon.

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Speaker 1: It was phenomenal. We went to Puerto Rico and I

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Speaker 1: only got a little sunburned this time. I was careful

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Speaker 1: because last year when we went to visit his family

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Speaker 1: down there, I found out that some white people can

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Speaker 1: unlock a special, secret level of sunburn that makes you

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Speaker 1: very physically ill. So honestly, shout out to the Caribbean

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Speaker 1: for developing a natural defense against the gringo. I have

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Speaker 1: no choice but to respect that for the moment part.

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Speaker 1: When you hear a voice on the show that isn't mine,

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Speaker 1: it's actual archival audio. I go to a lot of

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Speaker 1: trouble to make that true, so it's usually a real

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Speaker 1: recording of the weird little guy we're talking about. When

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Speaker 1: there is no audio of the quote that I want

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Speaker 1: read in a voice that isn't mine, though, it's almost

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Speaker 1: always either my husband or the show's editor, Rory. There

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Speaker 1: was an episode last year early this year, early twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five that had some quotes from the President, and

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Speaker 1: Rory did a phenomenal Trump impression that made some of

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Speaker 1: you very mad. But what you may not have realized

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Speaker 1: is that when my husband is doing a voice, it's

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Speaker 1: also a carefully studied impression, right, like you recognize the

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Speaker 1: Trump impression, but when he does some obscure white supremacist

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Speaker 1: no one's ever heard of, you don't realize that he's

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Speaker 1: actually doing an amazing impression. Weirdly good at them, and

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Speaker 1: he is very excited for the day that he gets

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Speaker 1: to show off his upsettingly accurate impressions of William Luther

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Speaker 1: Pierce and Jared Taylor just please don't ask him to

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Speaker 1: do his Alex Jones. He's really good at it and

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Speaker 1: I hate it. Okay. Someone asked what is my favorite dinosaur?

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Speaker 1: I don't have one, but I wanted to have a

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Speaker 1: cool answer to this question, so I texted my brother

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Speaker 1: to ask what a cool dinosaur would be to say,

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Speaker 1: is my favorite? Because he knows a lot about dinosaurs,

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Speaker 1: and he gave me some good answers, you know, some

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Speaker 1: specific vibes that I could evoke with different choices. We're

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Speaker 1: very well thought out. But I realized it would be

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Speaker 1: dishonest to claim that dino knowledge as my own, so

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Speaker 1: I am going to cheat and say my favorite dinosaur

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Speaker 1: is that bird that Bitjyra Bolsnaro years ago. Birds are dinosaurs,

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Speaker 1: and that bird, in particular, the one that bit Bolsnorow

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Speaker 1: really hard, is my favorite. I think it was a raya.

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Speaker 1: It's like a small emu. It's not an emo. It's

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Speaker 1: like a small guy that looks like an emu. I

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Speaker 1: think it was a raya. Anyway, he's my favorite. Quite

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Speaker 1: a few of you submitted questions related to my physical

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Speaker 1: safety and my mental well being, which is really sweet

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Speaker 1: of you. I'm fine. I mean to the extent that

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Speaker 1: any of us are fine. Right, I live in the

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Speaker 1: United States. I could die in a mass shooting at

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Speaker 1: the grocery store tomorrow. As far as the possibility of

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Speaker 1: physical violence goes, Yeah, I guess I've probably got a

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Speaker 1: few more guys actively plotting my death specifically than the

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Speaker 1: average person might. But they've it's mostly been keeping it

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Speaker 1: themselves lately, and I really appreciate that. There was an

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Speaker 1: incident earlier this year where a weird little guy was

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Speaker 1: trying to like big dog me in a courtroom. He

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Speaker 1: sort of sidled up to me and said something he

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Speaker 1: probably thought about for an hour on the car ride there,

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Speaker 1: and that he hoped would be really startling and intimidating

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Speaker 1: to me. But at this point in my life, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing scary to me about a Nazi in poorly fitted

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Speaker 1: dress pants. I'm not going to pretend I'm bulletproof. I'm

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Speaker 1: not so naive that I think no harm can come

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Speaker 1: to me. I know what these guys are capable of

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things they want to do, the kinds

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Speaker 1: of things they talk about doing, the kinds of things

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Speaker 1: some of them have done. And I'll still be writing

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Speaker 1: about it when one of them goes and does another

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Speaker 1: unspeakable thing. I know that it's foolish to say that

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Speaker 1: they're all talk, but I also know a lot of

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Speaker 1: them are. A lot of them are a lot smaller

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Speaker 1: in person. And I don't mean physically. I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: about getting into a physical fight. I'm five feet tall

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Speaker 1: with my shoes on. But what I'm saying is there

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Speaker 1: were little guys. That's why the show's called that they're

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Speaker 1: so small in person. That's the whole point. They talk

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Speaker 1: big when it's online or at a rally with high energy,

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Speaker 1: or when they're with their friends, but in my experience,

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Speaker 1: most of them get stage fright if they actually get

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Speaker 1: the chance to say that shit out loud in a

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Speaker 1: quiet room. Back in twenty twenty three, I actually met

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Speaker 1: a guy who'd had some big talk about me online.

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Speaker 1: I may have told the story before, forgive me, but

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Speaker 1: he was in town because he'd been charged with a crime,

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Speaker 1: and that was something that really solidified for him that

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Speaker 1: being involved in the movement was a stupid way to

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Speaker 1: spend his life. He's probably still not not a white supremacist,

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Speaker 1: you know. I'm not saying he's reformed now, but he

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Speaker 1: was disengaging from active involvement in the movement, and that's

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Speaker 1: the best you can hope for sometimes. So by the

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Speaker 1: time we're standing there alone on the steps of the courthouse,

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Speaker 1: it had been a couple of years since he was

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Speaker 1: on a Nazi podcast talking with his Nazi friends about

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Speaker 1: the ways they would be interested in murdering me if

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Speaker 1: the opportunity presented itself. He look, I'm not gonna lie

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Speaker 1: to you. When I heard that the first time, hunched

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Speaker 1: over my computer alone late at night. Yeah, obviously it

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Speaker 1: scared me a little bit, right. It was very graphic,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know exactly who those men were or

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Speaker 1: where they were. I didn't know if they had the

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Speaker 1: means to do the things they were talking about. So

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Speaker 1: I found out and that made it easier. And when

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Speaker 1: I finally met him in person, I wasn't afraid of him.

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Speaker 1: He seemed maybe a little bit afraid of me. It

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Speaker 1: was just a weird little guy, kind of a sad one.

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Speaker 1: Another question people ask a lot, is is it mentally

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Speaker 1: destructive to do this kind of research. That's a fair question,

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Speaker 1: and the answer changes depending on when you ask me.

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Speaker 1: I think, of course, it's horrible, right I'm a human being.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it makes me sick to read about child

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Speaker 1: sexual exploitation and hate crimes and mass murder, domestic violence

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Speaker 1: and genocide, war crimes and all the other things the

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Speaker 1: guys I write about are getting up to. It's not

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Speaker 1: light reading. To spend all weeks sifting through gore forums

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out who a mass shooter was chatting

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Speaker 1: with online and accidentally seeing so many pictures of dead children.

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Speaker 1: It's not fun to spend days on nazi forums trying

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Speaker 1: to reconstruct the social media history of a man who

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Speaker 1: killed his wife. I'm not going to tell you that

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Speaker 1: feels good, obviously. I think you know that, and it's

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Speaker 1: not something I would recommend that someone else do. I

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Speaker 1: would be concerned if someone I cared about was doing that.

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Speaker 1: But I'm fine. You know. I'm not bragging about some

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Speaker 1: kind of superior coping mechanism. I'm not better than you

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Speaker 1: or stronger than you. I don't even have any constructive

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Speaker 1: advice for you if this is something you're struggling with.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to advise anyone else who's dealing

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Speaker 1: with vicarious trum of this kind of research. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I hate this question. I mean no offense. It

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Speaker 1: makes sense that you would ask it. I just hate

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Speaker 1: that I don't have a good answer for you. I

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00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 1: don't have any advice for you. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: it works, and I don't want you to think I'm

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Speaker 1: a sociopath when I tell you that I actually don't

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Speaker 1: struggle with this that much. I can turn it off.

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Speaker 1: But that's not to say I don't feel it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a robot, I'm not a monster. I feel it,

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Speaker 1: and I feel it deeply when I'm allowing myself to

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Speaker 1: be in it. There are episodes where there is no

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Speaker 1: clean take, and there's no way around the fact that

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Speaker 1: I am audibly crying in the final edit, and that's okay,

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Speaker 1: but I already know that the horrors are out there.

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Speaker 1: I can't go back to not knowing about this, So

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Speaker 1: for me, there's some comfort in knowing that I can

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Speaker 1: piece it together. I can try to understand it and

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Speaker 1: hopefully help you understand it. You know, I could sit

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Speaker 1: here and be scared in the dark, or I can

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Speaker 1: try to shine a light into that scary darkness. It's

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Speaker 1: still scary, but at least I have something to do.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I get asked this question every time

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Speaker 1: I'm in a position to be asked a question. I've

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Speaker 1: been asked this question a thousand times, and I don't

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Speaker 1: have a good answer for it, but I always land

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Speaker 1: more or less right here. It's ugly, and it's hard,

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Speaker 1: and I see things that I wish I hadn't seen,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's important to do anyway, and that

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Speaker 1: feeling of purpose makes it a little easier. Okay, enough

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Speaker 1: of that. By far, the most common type of question

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00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: was a sort of open ended one about how the

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Speaker 1: sausage gets made, how do I pick a guy, how

336
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Speaker 1: do I decide what the story is, how do I

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Speaker 1: find out everything there is to know about him? And

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Speaker 1: most importantly, how do I drag myself back to the

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Speaker 1: point of the story when it's so much more fun

340
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Speaker 1: to find out what's going on with this strange little

341
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Speaker 1: side character. I found halfway down a tangent about something

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Speaker 1: that's barely even connected to the story. I was trying

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Speaker 1: to tell you. A lot of you asked about that

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Speaker 1: part of the process in particular, and I love that.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, when I was sorting these questions into categories,

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Speaker 1: I was a little puzzled by the scarcity of questions

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Speaker 1: that were about some specific story. You guys, didn't really

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Speaker 1: ask me for more information about a story I already

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Speaker 1: told you. You asked me really open ended questions about

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Speaker 1: what kinds of things I haven't told you. And my

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00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: initial reaction to that was, like, I said, a reflection

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Speaker 1: on the nature of parasociality, right, Like why are those

353
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: the things you want to know? But I think there's

354
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Speaker 1: a more fun explanation for this. You trust the process.

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Speaker 1: You believe me when I tell you that I was

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Speaker 1: thorough in pursuing the interesting leads in the story I

357
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Speaker 1: did tell, and you liked it enough that you want

358
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Speaker 1: to know what cool stuff I couldn't cram into the episode.

359
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm making that up, but if that is what's

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Speaker 1: going on, I like that. I know the show can

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Speaker 1: be a little tricky to follow sometimes because the side

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Speaker 1: quests are longer than the main journey. So I really

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Speaker 1: like knowing that at least some of you love that

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Speaker 1: as much as I do. I mean, look, if you

365
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Speaker 1: don't like it, if you just want dry facts in

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Speaker 1: chronological order, I don't know what to tell you. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why you're still here. I would tell you

368
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Speaker 1: you should just read a Wikipedia article or something. But

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Speaker 1: most of the stories I'm trying to tell don't really

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00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: exist anywhere else in that sort of format. We're going

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Speaker 1: on an adventure together. But I do want to answer

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Speaker 1: one question I did get that was a factual question

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Speaker 1: about a recent episode. Someone on the Reddit posted this

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Speaker 1: question a few weeks ago. They wrote, with the Frank

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Speaker 1: Smith mini series wrapping up, I assumed you would revisit

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Speaker 1: the fact that Rockwell shouted the Holy Father after a

377
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Speaker 1: previous attempt on his life. According to someone with him,

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Speaker 1: is there anything more to investigate there? Okay, the answer

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Speaker 1: is we'll never know. I threw everything I had at

380
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Speaker 1: this and I do have my own theory. But I

381
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: went digging for anything concrete to try to ulster that theory,

382
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: and it was nothing but fistfuls of sand, just grabbing

383
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: an innuendo and possibility and watching it slip through my fingers.

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Speaker 1: To refresh your memory, that listener is asking about something

385
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Speaker 1: that came up in the first episode about Frank Smith,

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Speaker 1: the episode from October sixteenth. Frank Smith was a member

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Speaker 1: of the American Nazi Party and he had extensive ties

388
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: to organized crime in New England that whole arc from

389
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Speaker 1: the episodes about John Patler, the man who assassinated George

390
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: Lincoln Rockwell, through the end of the Frank Smith arc

391
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: was nine full length episodes and one minisode. It was

392
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Speaker 1: over fifty thousand scripted words, and it took two months.

393
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Speaker 1: So I won't retell the whole story here. If you're

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Speaker 1: listening to me Naval Gaze like this, you surely listen

395
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: to those episodes, But just to refresh some of the details.

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Speaker 1: Remember from the John Patler episodes, he murdered George Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Rockwell in August of nineteen sixty seven, and he was

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Speaker 1: convicted of that murder a trial a few months later.

399
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Speaker 1: But two months before the murder, so in June of

400
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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, Rockwell survived another attempt on his life.

401
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: Two months before he died, someone shot at him and missed.

402
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: And this prior incident doesn't get a lot of ink

403
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: in the biographies of Rockwell that I read, which seems

404
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: kind of odd to me. In most accounts, it sort

405
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: of vaguely implied that the most likely explanation is that

406
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: the guy who actually shot and killed him was also

407
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Speaker 1: the guy who tried and failed to shoot him. The

408
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: first time. That makes total sense, right, And as far

409
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Speaker 1: as the lack of investigation into that in the biographies,

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Speaker 1: I guess the fact that he actually got murdered really

411
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: overshadows anything else that happened to him that summer. But

412
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Speaker 1: you know, I'm never satisfied. So I found and read

413
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: the trial transcript. Patler appealed his conviction several times, so

414
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,719
Speaker 1: the entire trial transcript was reproduced in the appellate record,

415
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: and it's over a thousand pages. And here's the thing.

416
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Speaker 1: John Patler had a really solid alibi the day someone

417
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: shot at George Lincoln Rockwell and missed. There's conspiracy theories

418
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: about whether he actually killed Rockwell. I think he did.

419
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: The evidence is pretty good that he actually did shoot

420
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Speaker 1: him in August, but the evidence just isn't there to

421
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: assert that he was the guy who tried the first time.

422
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: And the college student who was in the car with

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00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: Rockwell when this happened in June told the authorities that

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00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: as the bullet whizzed by them, Rockwell shouted something. He

425
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: said the Holy Father. That boy doesn't have any reason

426
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: to lie, at least none that seemed obvious to me. Right,

427
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: And if you remember those episodes. A lot of the

428
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: people in this story had very obvious reasons to lie.

429
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: This kid didn't, and he didn't know that what he

430
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: heard Rockwell say wasn't just an exclamation. It was a name.

431
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: It was the nickname that Rockwell had given Frank Smith,

432
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: was a joke about the bullet holes in his chest

433
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: from a botched mob hit in nineteen sixty five. So

434
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: in that first episode about Frank, I sort of teased

435
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: the possibility that it was Frank who tried to shoot

436
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: Rockwell in June of nineteen sixty seven. But I never

437
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: came back to that. I just sort of left that hanging.

438
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: And that's what this listener is asking about so intriguing.

439
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: But there is absolutely fucking nothing there. There's nothing. It's bizarre.

440
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't find any trace anywhere of anyone ever asking

441
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: this question. What could it possibly mean that when Rockwell

442
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: saw someone shooting at him, he yelled Frank's nickname. No

443
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: one's ever asked that. I can't find anything about it.

444
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: There's no record of anyone raising the possibility that maybe

445
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: Frank was there, that maybe the mafia had their own

446
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: beef with Rockwell. Like I said, most material about the

447
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: last few months of Rockwell's life just sort of breezes

448
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: past this kind of serious question who else wanted him dead?

449
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: Most of the competing theories about his actual death center

450
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: around the discord within the American Nazi Party. I won't

451
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: recover all of this, it's in the upp but there

452
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: were factions and rivalries and disagreements about the direction of

453
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party and who should lead them, And most

454
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: of the information we have about those internal divisions comes

455
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: from the people involved in them. So the people pointing

456
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: fingers at each other within the party all have their

457
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: own shit to hide. In the accounts produced in biographies

458
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: of Rockwell, the authors spoke to those party members, including

459
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: people like Mantius Cole, the man who took over after

460
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: Rockwell died, and different biographers of Rockwell deal with these

461
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: accounts with varying levels of credulity and sometimes point out

462
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: that perhaps they have various motivations to tell versions of

463
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: the truth, but there's nothing else ever offered, and the

464
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: accounts that they gave those biographers more or less match

465
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: the kinds of testimony that was offered by American Nazi

466
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: Party members at John Paller's trial and decades later, William

467
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: Mouth their peers, gave his version of events to his

468
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 1: own biographer. And all of these men have very particular

469
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: motives for the versions of the truth that they're holding

470
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: on to, and they're all dead now. So I spent

471
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: probably fully one hundred hours agonizing over the blurry, heavily

472
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: redacted pages of the FBI file for Raymond Patriarca, the

473
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: head of the New England Mafia, and there's just enough

474
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: there to convince me that there's more there that I

475
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: don't have all the information about the extent to which

476
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: the mafia was involved with the American Nazi Party. I mean, sure,

477
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: we have memos about the times Frank Smith was reporting

478
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: back to Patriarcha about his relationship with Rockwell, but I

479
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: think there was more, and I can't prove it. I

480
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: don't like to tell you stuff I can't prove. I've

481
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: worked too hard to earn your trust. I don't want

482
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: to make stuff up and go tin foil hat on

483
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: you now. But you did ask, and I am dying

484
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: to speculate wildly. So here's my disclaimer. This does not

485
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: have my usual stamp of certainty on it. I'm not

486
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: stating this is fact. I can't support this with evidence.

487
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm going rogue. Sometimes it is fun to believe something

488
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: a little crazy as a treat. So my conspiracy treat

489
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: for myself in this story is that I choose to

490
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: believe the mafia tried to have the head of the

491
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: American Nazi Party killed, but they sent a half blind

492
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: hit man to do it and he missed. Remember, Frank

493
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: had one glass eye for reasons I never discovered, and

494
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: he almost lost the other when the mafia tried to

495
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: have him killed in nineteen sixty five, so he does

496
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: not see well. And when he got into that shootout

497
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: with Christopher Vidnyevitch in nineteen sixty eight, they fired at

498
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: each other for half an hour and Frank never hit shit.

499
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. George Lincoln Rockwell was a snitch famously,

500
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: so he didn't even really try to hide it. He

501
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: would tell you himself that he sometimes wrote letters to

502
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: the FBI to make them aware of people in the

503
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: movement whose activities he disapproved of. I found actual copies

504
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: of letters he wrote to Jay Edgar Hoover himself, listing

505
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: former members of his own party that he thought the

506
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: Bureau should investigate. This is a more egregious example than

507
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: I usually get. But this behavior is not actually uncommon.

508
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: There are a lot of guys in the movement who

509
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: are trying to inform on their rivals. I'm not even

510
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: talking about paid, recruited informants. The movement's full of those two.

511
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: I'm talking about guys who are just willingly freelance snitching

512
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: because they think they can leverage the force of the

513
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: government to try to take out a guy they don't like.

514
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: There's a fair amount of that going on to this day.

515
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: But Rockwell is the absolute king of writing letters to

516
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: the FBI to try to maneuver around within the movement.

517
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: So we know that he is doing that, and it

518
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: turns out the people he was dealing with did too,

519
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: because buried about four seven hundred and sixty three pages

520
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: into Raymond Patriarca's seventy nine hundred page FBI file is

521
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: a memo about a conversation Frank Smith had with the

522
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: mafia boss in March of nineteen sixty five. He's trying

523
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: to convince Patriarca that he needs to get into business

524
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: with the Nazi Party. This was around the time Rockwell

525
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: decided he was going to run for governor of Virginia,

526
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: and he had promised the mafia control of gambling and

527
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: loan sharking in the Naufolk area if he won. And

528
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: Frank wanted to set up a fake Nazi church on

529
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: his land in Maine so he could funnel money from

530
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: the mafia into the Nazi Party in a way that

531
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: would protect everyone involved. Right. That was all in the

532
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: episodes about Frank and he told Patriarcha at that meeting

533
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: in March that if they were going to do this,

534
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: they needed to be careful. Frank Smith was recorded on

535
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: an FBI wiretap saying that Rockwell had warned him that

536
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: he wouldn't hesitate to call the FBI if he found

537
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: out there was criminal activity going on. So Frank Smith

538
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: told Raymond Patriarca that they would need to be careful

539
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 1: not to reveal the extent of their illegal enterprise to Rockwell.

540
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: Two years later, someone took a shot at Rockwell and

541
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: they missed. One of the other things I do when

542
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm researching an episode is I make a timeline. Just

543
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: anytime I have a date, I put it in a timeline.

544
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if all these things are going to

545
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: be relevant, but they all go in just a bulleted

546
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: list in chronological order, And wouldn't you know, looking back

547
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: at that timeline, that failed hit on George Lincoln Rockwell

548
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: was a couple days after the FBI arrested Raymond Patriarca.

549
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: So sure, it makes good narrative sense to assume that

550
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: John Patler probably tried to kill Rockwell twice, But most

551
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: stories about June of nineteen sixty seven don't tell you

552
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: that Rockwell had threatened to snitch on the mafia and

553
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: that bullet just missed him the week a mob boss

554
00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: got indicted. We'll never know, right, I mean, this version

555
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: of the story has just as many holes as any

556
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: of the others. There's no proving it either way. And

557
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: I could tell you the same story with a different inflection,

558
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: and we'd all leave just as convinced that some other

559
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: version of it was just as true. I do try

560
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: to be responsible with the facts, though, even when it's

561
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: no fun. But you have to admit it's kind of

562
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: fun to think about it this way, isn't it. I

563
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: will say one last word on this subject. If you

564
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: are the anonymous buyer who purchased a collection of George

565
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: Lincoln Rockwell's personal correspondence, specifically a series of letters he

566
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: exchanged with a Massachusetts man named George Parker in nineteen

567
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: sixty five. I will pay good money just to look

568
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: at a photocopy of those letters. I don't know who

569
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: bought them. There were two separate listings, so there's two

570
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: sets of these letters. God, I would love to see

571
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: them because the listing lies that they contain information about

572
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: Rockwell's relationship with the mafia, and that someone in Massachusetts,

573
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: potentially this George Parker character, is leaking information to him

574
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: about a state investigation into that relationship. I can't find

575
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: anything about this in the FBI files. I think it

576
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: may have been a criminal investigation in the state of Massachusetts,

577
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: but I need the letters. There's more to this story,

578
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but I've exhausted my ability to track it down.

579
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: This one's staying in my pile of things I'll come

580
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: back to. I'm not done in trying to figure this out. Okay,

581
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: on the subject of things I have or have not

582
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: talked about on the show, let's go rapid fire through

583
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: some of the things you all want to hear more about.

584
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: Someone asked if I planned to cover any of the

585
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: weird little guys who participated in the January sixth insurrection. Yes,

586
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: there are two episodes that touch on that already. There

587
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: was a February sixth, twenty twenty five episode called a

588
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: Short Lived Pardon, followed by a brief update to that

589
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: same story a month later on March sixth. That episode

590
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: was about Matthew Huddle, the man who died after being

591
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: shot by police during a traffic stop just a week

592
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: after receiving his federal pardon for entering the Capitol on

593
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: January sixth. And before that, there was the October seventeen,

594
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four episode called Burning Hate. That one was

595
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: about Tyler Diykes, a young man who marched here in

596
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: Charlottesville at the Unite the Right rally in twenty seventeen,

597
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: and he entered the Capitol on January sixth, twenty twenty one.

598
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: He did jail time for both, which is toscussed in

599
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: the episode. But what is not discussed in that episode

600
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: but is coming up in next week's roundup is his

601
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: recent announcement that he is running for Congress. And that's

602
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: kind of why I foresee more episodes in the future

603
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: about January sixth, guys, because now that they're all pardoned,

604
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 1: we are unfortunately seeing a lot of them resurface. Right

605
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: They're either trying to get into media, they're trying to

606
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: get into politics. Some of them seem to be trying

607
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: to get back into prison. So I'm sure we will

608
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: wind up back with some of those guys eventually. That

609
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: same listener asked if I plan to cover any weird

610
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: little guys who happen to be women, and the answer

611
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: to that is also yes, but I don't know when.

612
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: The South Africa episodes that ran from the end of

613
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: February through the beginning of May of this year, we're

614
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: all centered around the main character of a woman named

615
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: Monica Huggetts Stone, and I'm sure there will be other

616
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: stories in the few with a female main character. They

617
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: just tend to be less frequent for a variety of reasons,

618
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: mainly right wing extremists are almost always violent misogynists. I'm

619
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: not saying women don't hold the same views as our

620
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: weird little guys, or that the movement doesn't include women.

621
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: They do, and it does. They just typically don't rise

622
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: to positions of power in the movement, and they are

623
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: less likely to carry out acts of extreme violence. The

624
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: movement has plenty of women in it, you just don't

625
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: hear a lot about them. Part of that is because

626
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: women's stories just don't get told, not just when we're

627
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: talking about white supremacists, I mean generally, right, history has

628
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: just as many women as it does men. But what

629
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: kinds of history stories do you hear? Monica Huggett Stone

630
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: was the central figure that eight episode arc about Neo

631
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: Nazi violence in the last decades of apartheid South Africa,

632
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: but it was much harder than it needed to be

633
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: to find actual information about this human woman at the

634
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: center of the story. People just aren't interested in what

635
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: women are doing. Will I cover Gary Louch? Great question. Yes, absolutely,

636
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: we're going to get to Gary. But a friend of

637
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: mine is writing a book that is definitely going to

638
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: feature Gary pretty heavily. So I think I'm going to

639
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: save myself the headache of doing the research myself and

640
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: just wait to buy a copy of her book, because

641
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: I know she has been deep in the archives, I

642
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: mean around the world in special collections archives, and she

643
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: even interviewed the farm Belt Feurer himself, So I should

644
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: ask her when that's coming out, Because I'm really looking

645
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: forward to it, but we will get to Gary. Someone

646
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: also asked, when is the Matt Hale episode. I don't know.

647
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean there's gonna be one. There's

648
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: obviously gonna be one. Sometimes I find myself avoiding these

649
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: big name, weird little guys. You know, I haven't done

650
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: William Luther Pierce. I haven't done Matthew Hale. I haven't

651
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: actually done Bob Matthews, right. I sort of mentioned him

652
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: in passing and then went somewhere else Entirely, I feel

653
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: like I'm skipping these really big ones because I know

654
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: what kind of can of worms it's gonna open, and

655
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: it's gonna take me months to dig myself out. Like

656
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: once I really get into the deep lore about Matt

657
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: Hale and the World Church of the Creator, I know

658
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna end up with thirty new, weird little guys

659
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,959
Speaker 1: whose whole lives I'm gonna have to map out before

660
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: I can move on. There's a lot going on there,

661
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 1: and we will get there. Because Matt Hale is still

662
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,959
Speaker 1: in prison and occasionally filing weird motions with the court,

663
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm signed up for docor alerts for him, so I

664
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: do check in on him from time to time, but

665
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm just not ready. Will I ever cover weird little

666
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: guys abroad? Actually got a bunch of these people asking

667
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: about particular British, Australian, Canadian, and European individuals and groups

668
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: that they'd like to hear more about. And the answer

669
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: is yes, Yes, definitely. I'm very intrigued by the fascist international.

670
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: Nothing exists in a vacuum, right, there are no lone wolves,

671
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: and it turns out the wolf pack is international. You know,

672
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: my existing subject matter expertise is white supremacists in the

673
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: United States over the last sixty years or so. But

674
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: it seems like if you dig deep enough in any story,

675
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: there's some kind of international connection, and that's something I'd

676
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: like to explore more. Earlier this year, I spent three

677
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: months writing about South African Nazis and that story ended

678
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: up taking us all over the world. There were German

679
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: mercenaries in Croatia, there were guns smuggled through a port

680
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: in England by a British Nazi group, a South African

681
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: man wanted for murder in Namibia currently hiding out in England.

682
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: And American lobbyists who took money from the apartheid government.

683
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: There were a lot of people and groups in that

684
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: story I'd like to come back to and read more about.

685
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: And then at the end of last year in the

686
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: beginning of this year, I did a series of episodes

687
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: about Dennis Mahon and that clansman spent some time in Germany,

688
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: which I did discuss on the show, but I didn't

689
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: get into his deep connections to fascist groups in Canada.

690
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: And I'd still planned to come back to that Australian

691
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: Nazi who was deported after he tried to attack John

692
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: Patler in court after Rockwell's murder. He died under rather

693
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances in Rhodesia a few years later. So we'll

694
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: explore some Australian Nazis soon. What I consider covering reformed

695
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: weird little guys. That one's complicated. The answer isn't. No.

696
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: I'm not ruling it out. I'm not saying I'll never

697
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: do it, but it's something I would want to approach

698
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: very carefully. Just in general, I have a pretty bad

699
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: taste in my mouth about a lot of the popular

700
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: narratives about formers. A lot of the guys out there

701
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: who are making money taking speaking engagements talking about how

702
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: they used to be a Nazi. Those aren't guys I

703
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: want to talk to. Those are not guys whose opinions

704
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: I think are worth talking about, not all of them. Right,

705
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that every guy with a publicist is

706
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: a grifter and a liar who's using a redemption arc

707
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: narrative to sell himself as an expert on political extremism,

708
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: and the kind of extremism he keeps talking about is

709
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: actually how the left is just as bad as the

710
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: stuff he used to do. Right, But I'm saying there

711
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: is a lot of that, and I don't think those

712
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: guys are really formers. I think if every story you

713
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: have to tell about your decades as a Nazi is

714
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: actually about how Antifa are the real enemy, you're not

715
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: a former Nazi. But that's just a hang up I

716
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: have about a couple guys in particular. I'm not saying

717
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: formers themselves are always acting in bad faith or that

718
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: they don't really exist. They do. They absolutely do, And

719
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: I've met some very decent people who are working very

720
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: hard to quietly make amends and grow as people and

721
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: really leave their past behind. People can get better, right,

722
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: People can change and I think those stories are important,

723
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: and I would like to find a way to tell

724
00:47:54,040 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: them responsibly, because that change has to come from inside

725
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: something that can grow out of a press release written

726
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: by a publicist and approved by an attorney. So the

727
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: answer to that is maybe, probably even. But it wouldn't

728
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: just be a one off interview about how making a

729
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: black friend cured a klansman and he's nice. Now, that's

730
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: not my kind of story. That's not a story I

731
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: would subject you to. I've seen a guy try to

732
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: sell that shit to a judge and I didn't believe

733
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: it when it was presented a sworn testimony, So I

734
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't expect you to believe it on a podcast. I

735
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: do have a couple of formers in mind that I

736
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: would like to do a little bit more research about

737
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: the kind of story I would want to tell with

738
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: their help. There are a couple of people that I

739
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: think would be valuable to talk to about this. I'm

740
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: just I'm just not ready to do that right now.

741
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: There were kind of a surprising number of questions that

742
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 1: were just invitations to do my favorite thing, to wander

743
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: off topic. I'm still kind of self conscious about the

744
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: meandering nature of these stories, even though at this point

745
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: I recognize it as something that's integral to the show.

746
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: So I was really charmed by how many of you

747
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: just want to hear how far I can get from

748
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 1: the plot. It sounds like some of you are trying

749
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: to challenge me to dig my deepest hole yet, just

750
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: so you can watch me try to get back out

751
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 1: of it. The problem with answering those questions right now

752
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: is it would take two to three hundred hours. The

753
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: stuff that gets cut, the tangents that I have to

754
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: cut myself off from, those all kind of end up

755
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: piled up in a tab at the end of my

756
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: notes for each episode. There's this terrible, little, incomprehensible mess

757
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: of these half formed thoughts that I swear I'm going

758
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: to come back to because there's probably a whole episode

759
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: in there, or four or ten if I just let

760
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: myself keep going. One example of that that comes to

761
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: mind right now is a recent one. It's about Barbara

762
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: von Getz. She was the secretary for the American Nazi

763
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: Party who lived at the party's headquarters in the early

764
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 1: to mid sixties. She was also George Lincoln Rockwell's mistress

765
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 1: and the mother of his two daughters, who both died

766
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: in infancy of a genetic disorder. I talked a little

767
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: bit about her and about Rockwell's daughters in one of

768
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: the Frank Smith episodes, but before I wrote I think

769
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: like two paragraphs about Barbara, I spent a day or

770
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: two learning about her. Pretty much anyone who's discussed beyond

771
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 1: a passing mention gets this treatment. In the research process,

772
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: I like to make a family tree and go through

773
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: old newspapers for any mention of the person or any

774
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: of their immediate relatives. I'll check court records and places

775
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: where they've lived, and look at property and tax records.

776
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 1: If I can find them, I just sort of sketch

777
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: out the broad strokes of their life. Where have they been,

778
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: What were they doing before they showed up in this story?

779
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 1: Where did they go afterward? Do they have any meaningful

780
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: connection to anything else we might be interested in. I'm

781
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: not really looking for anything in particular. I'm just browsing,

782
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: and mostly I use none of this. I have half

783
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: a biography on a thousand guys I didn't even need.

784
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: But Barbara was such a question mark for me throughout

785
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 1: this story, right because I spent two months writing about

786
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: the last year of Rockwell's life, and there's not a

787
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: lot about her. I mean, she was the mistress and

788
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: personal secretary of the commander of the American Nazi Party.

789
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: She gave birth to and buried two of his children.

790
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 1: But that's kind of all she ever is in any

791
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: story about him. Women's stories just disappear, right. So I

792
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: was really curious about how she ended up so close

793
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: to one of the big leaders in the movement. And

794
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 1: it turns out her whole damn family was a bunch

795
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: of Nazis. Her sister and one of her brothers were

796
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:19,320
Speaker 1: close to Otto Strausser, an actual Nazi. Like Otto Strausser

797
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: joined the Nazi Party in Germany in nineteen twenty five.

798
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: He is one of the two Strassers of Strasserism, and

799
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: Barbara's other brother spent time in Rhodesia in the nineteen

800
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: seventies as a mercenary. Her Nazi sister was inexplicably the

801
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: secretary at a mosque in Washington, d c. In the

802
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, which I only know because she was taken

803
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: hostage at that mosque during the Hanafi Siege of nineteen

804
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: seventy seven, and her brother Karl, fresh off his stint

805
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: as a race war mercenary, tried to negotiate for her release.

806
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: He went on to have a whole second act as

807
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: a fairly well known way. It's a premacist in Canada

808
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: in the eighties, and Barbara's nephew, the son of her

809
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: other brother, was arrested on Christmas Eve last year for

810
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: pouring whiskey into the holy water during midnight mass at

811
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: a Catholic church in Maryland. So I wasted a lot

812
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 1: of time on this. Obviously, I know a lot about

813
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: this family that I did not need or use in

814
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: that episode. I left all of that out because I

815
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: think I need to come back to this to sort

816
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: out what the hell is going on there. So for

817
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: those of you asking how far afield I tend to

818
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: get while I'm writing, I always make the family tree,

819
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's a waste of time. Usually it's a

820
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: waste of time, but sometimes there's a Rhodesian mercenary and

821
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: two siblings who have long complicated relationships with Otto Strausser.

822
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: And that is why I will never stop wasting my

823
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: time researching stuff that doesn't make it into the episode.

824
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: I'll come back to it one day, But That is

825
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: absolutely enough for now. Those of you who are just

826
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: here for the Weird Little Guys, I'm sorry if I

827
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: disappointed you this week. But for the real writer die

828
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: listeners out there, the ones who like hearing about my

829
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: struggle to translate a Hungarian Nazi newspaper published by a

830
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: guy in Cincinnati, even though that has nothing to do

831
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: with what we're talking about, I hope this scratched that

832
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: itch for you at least a little bit. Next week

833
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: will be another episode that doesn't quite fit the usual mold.

834
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,439
Speaker 1: I'll be checking back in on some of the Weird

835
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 1: Little Guys whose stories aren't over yet. Some of them

836
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: have come up on the show before and will be

837
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 1: familiar to you, and some of them are guys whose

838
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 1: episodes I'm not ready to write yet, but I can't

839
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: wait that long to introduce them into the Weird Little

840
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: Guys extended universe. It's something different, but I think it'll

841
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: still be fun. I promise I won't make a habit

842
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: of straying from the classic Weird Little Guys format you

843
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: know and love, but I am going to try a

844
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: few new things to get a little variety, and if

845
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm being totally honest, I'm trying to figure out what

846
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 1: works in terms of redistributing the workload a little bit.

847
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: I love making this show, but I have to find

848
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: a way to make it a little more sustainable in

849
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: the long run, because I don't think I'm ever gonna

850
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: run out of Weird Little Guys. Weird Little Guys is

851
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. It's research, written,

852
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: and recorded by me while I hunger. Our executive producers

853
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: are Sophie Lichtman and Robert Evans. The show is edited

854
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: by the wildly talented Wordy Gaigan. The theme music was

855
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: composed by Brad Diggert, and for the listener who asked

856
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: a question about that theme music, I will put a

857
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: link in the show notes to Brad's SoundCloud where you

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Speaker 1: can listen to the entire theme of the show. You

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00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: can email me at Weird Little Guys podcast at gmail

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00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: dot com. I will definitely read it, but I probably

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00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: won't answer. It's nothing personal. You can exchange conspiracy theories

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00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: about the show with other listeners on the Weird Little

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00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 1: Guys severad it, but as always, don't post anything that's

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Speaker 1: going to make you one of my Weird Little Guys