1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump has set himself up 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: for Egene Carol to launch a third defamation case. We 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: have such a great show for you today. Congresswoman Laurie 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: Trahan tells us about how she's fighting Republicans war on IVF. 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: Author Maxwell Stearns tells us how we could use a 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: parliamentary system to fix our democracy. But first we have 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: the host of the enemy's List, the Lincoln Project's owned 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Rick Wilson. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rick will Wali 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Jong Fast. 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 2: I know I sound like leftover ass, because I for 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: the last severallys felt Mike leftover ass. But I'm here 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: with you as always to engage in our weekly festivities 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: and frolics and youthful hijinks. 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: And this is right youthful hygiens. Rick Wilson was a little. 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: Bit I was. I got a little bit of a 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 2: there are got a little bit of a flu or 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: something I don't know. 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: Hugely successful live show, which somehow I did not get 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: whatever Rick Wilson had, despite the fact that I hugged him. 22 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: The luck of the Jong continues. You know who did 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: not have luck, Kitty Britt, Hey, you know who was 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: So it's the curse of the Scotus rebuttal, right, and 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: that's what it is. It is, Bobby Jindall continue. 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: Marco Rubio, think about it. There are so few people 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: who come out of Scotis rebuttal space, if you will, 28 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: are the so too rebuttal space with their pride and 29 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: dignity intact. Even the people when they go, oh that 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: was really impressive. That really knocked it out of the park. 31 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: That was a strong case against George W. Bush or 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: against Barack Obama by up and coming young leader. It's 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: not a partisan thing either. It's just that it's a 34 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: bad gig to get and especially if you're Katie Britt 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: from like the Yes, I'm a member of my local 36 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: dinner theater troupe and I know how to engage in 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: what they call acting, and oh my god, it was painful. 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: And look, I was a little bit out of it. 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: I was feverish. I legitimately I was laying on the 40 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: couch with a fever, and I was like, what the 41 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: hot fuck am I watching? What the fuck am I is? 42 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: This just me, and I swear to you. I went 43 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: to sleep that night, honestly, I was here by myself, 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: and I honestly went to sleep down and I woke 45 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: up in the morning thinking, man, I was like tripping 46 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: on cold medicine, because was that as crazy as I remember? 47 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: And so first thing I did I watched the clip. 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, oh my god. And I 49 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: wasn't an original thought. Everybody else obviously has seen it too, 50 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: but everyone said, this is snl worthy. This is like 51 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 2: she's parodied herself, and she really had. 52 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: Just looking up old state of the Union rebottles on Wikipedia. 53 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: So we had so Katie Britt this year. Last year, 54 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Sarah Sanders, we had Sarah Sanders, Kim Rens. 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: Approaching from three hundred degrees of vision. 56 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: Kim Reynolds. So I guess, Tim Scott, so I guess. 57 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: It's got work out for you by the state. 58 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: I guess a good state of the Union rebottal is 59 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: one where no one remembers you. 60 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: I think that's the best you can know. 61 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: Bad one, Yeah, is what happened on Thursday. 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: Let's just be really let's just be really blunt about it. 63 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: Katie Britt is a former staffer, she's an inside player 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 2: in Washington, all that stuff, and someone and I really 65 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: tried to run down who did it, because they're only 66 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: a limited number of Republicans speech and debate folks who 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: prepare people for these things, and it's it's one of 68 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: two or three people. And when I saw it, I 69 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: was just so blown away by how obscenely over theatrical 70 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: it was. What a farrago of lies and bullshit it was. 71 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: And it didn't even again. And I say this, the 72 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: first time I watched it, I was feverish and I 73 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: thought I was hallucinating some of the things. And when 74 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: I watched the video in the morning, I couldn't believe 75 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: how much overacted over dramatic, lying liar, who lies to 76 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: she was willing to engage in with for that. 77 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: The top line of that speech was that after the speech, 78 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: a guy called, hold on, I want to make sure 79 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: Jonathan kat oh true. Yeah. He used to work at 80 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: the Associated Press and he has a newsletter called The 81 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: Racket News. He just did a very simple video where 82 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: he found the person that Katie Britt was talking about 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: in the speech. Googled where she had found her. Turns 84 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: out she was sex trafficked this woman, But she was 85 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: sex trafficked. This rape story actually happened in Mexico during 86 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: the George W. Bush administration, So you're about as responsible 87 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: for this woman's terrible tragedy as Joe Biden is. 88 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: Right, listen to and look, once again, it was during 89 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: the Bush administration, Nanai on twenty years ago, which makes 90 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: me feel it is a cow then hell, and it 91 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: was also happening in Mexico now. And the idea that 92 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: even if you don't like George W. Bush, you thought 93 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: that he had a personal knowledge of every sex trafficking 94 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: case going on in Mexico and should deploy the entire 95 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: federal government to fix is ludicrous. And this is a 96 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: it's a horrible crime and it does happen. But once again, 97 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: what did Katie Brittan not take responsibility for being one 98 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 2: of the Republicans in the US Senate blocking the passage 99 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: of a border bill that would actually do things to 100 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: address sex trafficking in Mexico and address the security wrestle 101 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: of the border. Yes, her very carefully crafted, overly dramatic 102 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: moments in that rebuttal were very Regalan wrote a great 103 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: piece about it on his substack this weekend. This was 104 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 2: very much on brand for the modern Republican candidate who 105 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: wants to stay in Trump's good graces. Lie Lie, Lie Lie, 106 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: make it about some sort of thinly and extremely thinly 107 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: veiled racial thing, and when you look at it, and 108 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: when you look at it in total, it was so 109 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: discredited by the time she got off the set that 110 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: it just tells you they don't care. All she was 111 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 2: doing was trying to punch a ticket on the Trump 112 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 2: World thing. But again, let's also remember she is a 113 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: Republican hack staffer. She's one of my people. Okay, she's 114 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: She's the kind of person wid stuff like we do. 115 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: She was Richard Shelby's chief of staff and became this 116 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: DC operator type. And this wasn't someone he's act, just 117 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: some mom from Alabama who just happened to somehow decide 118 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: to run for office because I love America. No, she's 119 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: a political hack of the first order. Nobody should be 120 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: fooled by any of these shenanigans. 121 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: And britt Her response was, I very clearly said I 122 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: spoke to a woman who told me about when she 123 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: was trafficked when she was twelve, So I didn't say 124 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: a teenager, and I didn't say a young worm. It's 125 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: just and she actually did say. 126 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: The cats report seems to say that she didn't even 127 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: actually encounter the woman. 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: I think she met her, but she met her at 129 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: the border with these two other senators when they went 130 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: down too. But the point is, I think the more 131 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: important point here is when she told the story, she said, 132 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: this is something you wouldn't even see in a third 133 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: world country, imply saying that it happened in the United States, which, 134 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: by the way, besides the fact that we don't use 135 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: the word, we haven't used the phrase third world country 136 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: in many years, it is also just a completely it's 137 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: just not It was implying something that was not true. 138 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: The degree to which Katie Britt and any again, any 139 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: Republican who wants to be in Trump's good stead is 140 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: going to lie aggressively, particularly on the topic of immigration, 141 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 2: cannot be underestimated. There is no limit. There's no upper 142 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 2: boundary by which they say I'm going too far, I 143 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: should turn the bullshit knob down twenty five percent. It 144 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: doesn't exist. This is definitionally what they are now. And 145 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: she's and look, she's raising money off of it. Already, 146 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: and then the fundraise emails that she's putting out here, 147 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: like now they're trying to cancel me. Well, yes, because 148 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: you were. You came across as a lying psychopath. How 149 00:08:58,760 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: about that? 150 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: But I also think it shows the problem that women 151 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: have in Trump world, right, the problem of defending a 152 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: guy who overturned row. And the reason they picked Katie Brett, right, 153 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: was because Katie Britt was the closest they have Republicans 154 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: in the Senate to like normal looking. You couldn't have six. 155 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: She's the youngest, she's the youngest member of the Senate. 156 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 2: She's the youngest Republican ever elected to the Senate or 157 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: something like that. 158 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: Right, and she looks, right, you can't have Cindy Hyde Smith. 159 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't even know if she talks right, or Marsha 160 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: Blackburn half the you know, the Republican women largely are 161 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: not necessarily the kind of people you want out there 162 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: giving a speech. So you really do see how tough 163 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: it is. And then this morning on Meet the Bread, 164 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: not Meet the Press, on ABC, you had Stephanopoulos interviewing 165 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: Nancy Mason. Nancy Mace is saying she can't help herself, 166 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: She's trying she is stocked defending Trump despite the fact 167 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: that she's presenting herself as a sexual as a rape survivor, 168 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: which she's saying she's a rape survivor, and then somehow 169 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: having to defend Donald Trump, which is the nightmare of 170 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: this where this Republican Party is. 171 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: Ask Egen Carroll, this is not a man. This is 172 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: not a man that lends himself to close defense by 173 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: any woman inter out of elected office. In my opinion, 174 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 2: he is a guy with a at Look, we've now 175 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 2: had adjudicated that he engaged in a sexual attack on 176 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: Egene Smith, that our agen Carroll, that's just not even 177 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: a question. And yet the defense of him must be 178 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 2: brought that way because that's the culture of the Trump universe. 179 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: You can't acknowledge his faults or his character flaws or 180 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 2: his crimes. You must defend at all times. And the 181 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: best way for them to defend in their minds is 182 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: to devise this this lurid sort of this lurid sort 183 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: of criminal underworld of illegal aliens and sex traffickers. And 184 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: everything's very dramatic about these accusations, but a lot of 185 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: them are just made up, and a lot of them 186 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: are a way to take your eye off the ball. 187 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 2: The other reason, by the way they picked Katie Britt, 188 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: was that because Republican Party in total is in a 189 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: state of raw screaming queen horror movies panic, like they're 190 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: seeing the guy chase them through the house with the 191 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: sharp knife about IVF, and they're screw up on IVF. 192 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: Nancy Britt was on there, Nancy Brett, Katie Britt was 193 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,119 Speaker 2: on there specifically to say one line, but no, Alabama, 194 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: now we're protecting IVF. Oh are you? Are you now? 195 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: Because you weren't when your Supreme Court a few days 196 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: ago took it apart. 197 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: And the other saying about the Katie bred Alabama thing 198 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: is that I know that nobody cares about this, But 199 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: the actual language in the bill that was signed out 200 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: into law by doesn't actually by Governor k Ivy, does 201 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: not actually protect. It does not say a frozen five 202 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: celled embryo isn't a person. It just merely says that 203 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: if you kill a five celled blasticists, you're allowed to 204 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: do it if you're doing it for IVF, but not 205 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: for any other reason. 206 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: I can murder a guy for taking my parking space, 207 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: but not for other reasons. 208 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: It's this standard ground of fertility, of fertility excuses you 209 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: thought the guy was coming to your house to steal 210 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: your stuff. But I do think it is. It shows 211 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: just how Republicans haven't thought any of this legislation through, 212 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: so they find themselves continually in these situations where that 213 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: are unworkable, and you have women in parking lots waiting 214 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: until their miscarriage is bad enough so that they are 215 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: the doctor can say definitively that their life is in jeopardy. 216 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: None of this needs to happen. Republicans did this to 217 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: themselves by having no interest in crafting legislation that made 218 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: any sense. 219 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: Right, and you could easily and clearly draft legislation that specifically, 220 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: even if you were trying to leave the entire Alabama 221 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: the rest of their even if you were trying to 222 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: leave the rest of their abortion law in place, which 223 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 2: you ought not, but here we are, you could still 224 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,599 Speaker 2: draft a better piece of legislative language to address IBF. 225 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: They chose not to, and that was a choice for 226 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 2: them not to do so. 227 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: I also think that fundamentally will find ourselves in a 228 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: situation where a lot of these Republicans actually probably couldn't 229 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: craft that legislation because they're not very smart. 230 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 2: There's always bill drafting, there's always lawyers. They could if 231 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: they wanted, they. 232 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: Could find someone to do it. But the other thing 233 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: that happened this week is that Joe Biden really killed 234 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: it with the State of the Union. As I actually 235 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: have been saying. 236 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: All along, well, you're right, we buried the lead today. 237 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: Yes, we really did. 238 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: We buried the lead Joe Biden. Let's just be absolutely 239 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: flat out about it. Joe Biden fucking crushed it, killed it. 240 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: He And the most amazing part of it to me 241 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 2: wasn't just that he did very well, which he did 242 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: very well. The most amazing part to me with it. 243 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 2: In the process of doing so well with this thing, 244 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: he also lured the Republicans in for the second time 245 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: on live television to saying or doing something stupid, and 246 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: this time it was on and not raising or not 247 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: cutting taxes for multi billionaires and the relic and the 248 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: rebellion trap for a second time. And I'm thinking, oh wait, 249 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: and this guy's the slow one. I don't think so. 250 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. My favorite moment was afterwards seeing Chris Kobac complaining 251 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: about removing lad pipes, being like, we don't really need 252 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: to remove led pipes. There were so many moments when 253 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: Mike Johnson was like sitting there stone faced while Biden 254 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: was talking about things that Republicans believed. 255 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: In five minutes ago. 256 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: Now, at one point the beginning of that speech, he 257 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: talks about Reagan. He doesn't even you'll remember liberal hero 258 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: Ronald Ray. Ronald Reagan, who's right, who said to mister Gorbachev, 259 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: please tear down that wall. And then he says, sharp 260 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: contrast to Trump, who said do whatever the hell you want. 261 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: And again like it's you don't think Mike Johnson loves 262 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. It just he really put them in a spot. 263 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: Look, this was beautifully crafted, beautifully engineered as a trap. 264 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: And my son said the other night we were texting 265 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: about this. He said, you know what it is in 266 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: part the Republicans sorted they believed their own and they 267 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: started to set the bar so low. It's like Joe 268 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: Biden is a drooling, ancient, doddering old coat and he 269 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: can barely change his own pants in the morning, and 270 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: he's this and I guess what when when it comes 271 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: out there and spanks them. The contrast isn't between the 272 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: reality of Joe Biden in the performance. It's between their 273 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: fantasy and what the performance is going to be. And 274 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: even their own people even because when Fox were like, oh, 275 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: he's it was energetic, and when when their critique of 276 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: Biden in the speech is that he was too aggressive 277 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: and he pushed too hard and he spoke too fast. 278 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: Oh okay, that you guys have nothing nothing, Yeah, that. 279 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: Was really incredible. And he raised ten million dollars right 280 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: after the speech, which is a pretty good sign. And 281 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: none of that money will go to retainers. 282 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: None of that money will go to paying legal fees 283 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: for his ninety one criminal charges that are brought to 284 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: him in four separate cases. And and although their triumph 285 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 2: of taking over the RNC this weekend, they're still flushed 286 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: with Laura Trump for running the interesting. 287 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: You have a check, I have a check for one 288 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. 289 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you rob the bank with the bank's been closed 290 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: for two days. 291 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: That's like how many hours of legal work? Ten hours? No, 292 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: not one hundred hours. How many hours of legal work 293 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: is that for the team? 294 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: Oh ship, there are so many teams now, it's it 295 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: it's mathematicians and scientists to calculate. 296 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: I don't even know anymore, honestly, but it's that's a 297 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,479 Speaker 1: retainer for different for our case. 298 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 2: And no, nothing year with the takeover of the RNC 299 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: is going to improve the life of any Republican candidates 300 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 2: anywhere at all. It is going to It is not 301 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 2: going to. No Republican woke up this morning and said, wow, 302 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: this really this changes it. Now. The RNC is going 303 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: to run like a well honed machine. It's gonna be 304 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: the smoothest, best fundraising operation we've ever seen in our 305 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 2: careers and nothing could go wrong. 306 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: Thank you Rick Wilson for joining us. 307 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: I'm happy, too, Sorry I sound so bad. 308 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: Congresswoman Laurie Trahan represents Massachusetts third District. Welcome too Fast Politics, 309 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: Laurie Trahan, thank you for having me. We're so excited 310 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: to have you so talk to us about IVF. 311 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 3: You can't talk about IVF without first talking about fertility. 312 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 3: I mean, millions of women like me struggled or struggling 313 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 3: with fertility, and the statistics are something like one in 314 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 3: eight women receive fertility treatment of some kind to get 315 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 3: pregnant or to sustain a pregnant day. This one is 316 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: obviously personal to me. And you know, no woman ever 317 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 3: really wants to talk wants to think about that happening 318 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 3: to them. They don't want to talk about it. They 319 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: sure as hell don't want politicians inserting themselves into those 320 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 3: private conversations and decisions with their partner and their doctor. 321 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 3: And that's really what this is about right now, Republican 322 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 3: politicians who think they have some divine authority to make 323 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 3: the intimate health and reproductive choices that only women can 324 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 3: and should be making. 325 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're a congresswoman. Talk to me a little 326 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: bit about your trajectory and how you become a real 327 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: advocate for IVF, and but I want you to first 328 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: talk us through a little bit about your career in Congress. 329 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. 330 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 4: So I was elected in twenty eighteen. 331 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: So you were in that wave of anti Trump women. 332 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean there were so many women who had 333 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 3: the same thought bubble that I had after the twenty 334 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: sixteen election that we needed more women walking the halls 335 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 3: of Congress. And you know, at that infamous picture of 336 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 3: so many men sitting around a table talking about healthcare 337 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: and there was no representation, There are no women around 338 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 3: that table, And so really, you know, got off the 339 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: sidelines at that point and ran for office. And I've 340 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 3: lived in the district that I represent. I represent Massachusetts 341 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 3: Third District, which borders on New Hampshire. I grew up 342 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: in Lowell and working class family. My grandparents came here 343 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 3: from Brazil and Portugal. My dad was a union iron worker, 344 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 3: and so really it was around we have to make 345 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 3: sure that Congress doesn't get sattled with gridlock, because when 346 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: that happens, families like the one I grew up in 347 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 3: are disproportionately hurt. But then, like anything else, you know, 348 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 3: you bring a whole lived experience with you to Congress 349 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 3: and you speak out on them because you know better 350 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 3: than most people who are making decisions or debating these policies. 351 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 3: And that's exactly what IVF is for me. It's a 352 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 3: very personal topic. It's something I never mentioned or talked 353 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: about in terms of my path to motherhood. But you 354 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 3: damn right, I'm going to talk about it right now 355 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 3: because it's at risk. 356 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because I had the same exact thought. 357 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: We shouldn't have to talk about our IVF journeys, right, 358 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's such an insane thing that that 359 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: is this Alabama Supreme Court has brought us to a 360 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: place where we have to explain publicly things that really 361 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: are private things. The first thing I thought about was like, 362 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: I would not have my twins if I had not 363 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: had IVF. And you know, we had IVF because we 364 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: carried a rare genetic disease, which the kind of testing 365 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: that we would not have if we lived in this 366 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: theocracy that Republicans want. So I do think it becomes 367 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,719 Speaker 1: a time when we have to really come out and 368 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: talk about our left experiences. 369 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 3: That's exactly right, I mean, like you, like me, So 370 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 3: many women who yes, right, they struggled for a long 371 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 3: time to get pregnant or to have a healthy pregnancy, 372 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 3: they turn routinely to IVF as our last hope. So yes, 373 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: I mean, look, I underwent five years of treatment to 374 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 3: have my two daughters. They were more difficult than I 375 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: ever could have imagined. But like you, I wake up 376 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: every day so grateful that IVF gave my husband and I. 377 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 4: Two beautiful daughters. Who are you know, the joys of 378 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 4: our lives. 379 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 3: And I just we just want to make sure that 380 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 3: other women who are struggling with their own fertility challenges 381 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 3: have the same chance. 382 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 1: So Republicans had an opportunity to codify IVF, brought on 383 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: the floor by Tammy Duckworth, who is an incredible, incredible legislator, 384 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: but also a woman who has shared her own personal, 385 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: lived experience with IVF. Now we're in this world where 386 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: they refused, you know, Republicans refused to take it to 387 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: the floor. Cindy Hyde Smith. Now there are some like 388 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: lame messaging bills coming out of the House on this, 389 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: But will you explain to us this sort of weird 390 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: way Republicans are trying to obfuscate. 391 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the level of hypocrisy that we're seeing 392 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 3: from Republicans would be laughable if it wasn't so physically 393 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: and emotionally devastating for women. 394 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 4: Think about it. 395 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 3: Republicans right laws designed to strip women of the right 396 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: to make their own health care and reproductive decisions. They're 397 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 3: told what the consequences could be, and they do it anyway. 398 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 3: And then something with overwhelming support because you know, across 399 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 3: the political spectrum like IVF gets caught up in their 400 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 3: you know, dragnet of an abortion van, and what do 401 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: they do. They introduce a toothless resolution that expresses the 402 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 3: sense of Congress that they support IVF. No law, no 403 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 3: actionable language in the bill. Nothing. I mean, it's the 404 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 3: same kind of bill someone introduces when a Little League 405 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 3: team in their district wins the championship. That's the level 406 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 3: of experiencedness Republicans are applying to this mental attack on 407 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 3: our freedom, and so I think women see through this. 408 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 3: Right they had an opportunity to protect IVF in the Senate, 409 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 3: and they blocked it there. Right now are one hundred 410 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 3: and twenty five Republicans who are co sponsoring legislation right 411 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 3: now as we speak that it would effectively ban IVF 412 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: treatment in every state without exceptions. This is the kind 413 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 3: of thing people hate about politicians, and so we have 414 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 3: to call them out on this because it's just a 415 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 3: level of hypocrisy, and we can't let them get away 416 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 3: with saying one thing while they're doing another. 417 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: What I'm struck by is the legislative problems that Republicans 418 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: keep having. So a lot of these bills, abortion bills, 419 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: and even this IVF bill it was written to relate 420 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: to this twenty seventeen fetal personhood statue, which in Alabama 421 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: they've been sort of trying to get going and fetal 422 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: personhood is this idea that a five cell frosen embryo 423 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: is exactly the same as a child. It's a person, 424 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: even though, oh, if you thaw it it dies, it 425 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: is a person. You know, if you thought it's not 426 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: it doesn't even die. If you though it is no 427 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: longer viable, ergo, it is not a person. So but 428 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: what I'm struck by is like, this is a leg 429 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: this is a moral problem, be stupid legislation, but it 430 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: really is a legislative problem. Like you really see how 431 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: bad Republicans are legislating? Can you talk to us? You 432 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: are in Congress so you get to see this firsthand. 433 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: Are you just shocked at how bad their legislation is? 434 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: And by bad, I mean you know, blunt and sort 435 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: of badly written and not careful and not and they're 436 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: sort of never playing out scenarios if this legislation ever 437 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: gets enacted. 438 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you bring up a great point. 439 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I have this crazy approach to this job, 440 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 3: and it's one that my colleagues in the Republican Party 441 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 3: would benefit from. Where if I'm not an expert on 442 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 3: an issue like say, fertility treatments and the development of 443 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 3: babies in the womb. I ask the doctors who do 444 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 3: this for a living what they think. And when you 445 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: ask those folks, including reproductive doctors, I'm bringing a reproductive 446 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 3: endochronologist with me to the State of the Union as 447 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 3: my guests, what they think about life a conception and 448 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: what that means for fertility treatments. They either laugh you 449 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 3: out of the room or look like they want to rip. 450 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 4: Their hair out. 451 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 3: I mean, it's ridiculous that you have career politicians who 452 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 3: think that their religion tells them that they get to 453 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 3: override the expertise of doctors who have dedicated their entire 454 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 3: careers decades to helping couples like my husband and me 455 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 3: have the families of our dreams. 456 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 4: So it's ludicrous to me. But it just goes to. 457 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 3: Show the larger problem how subservient the vast majority of 458 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 3: the Republican Party is that they feel like they have 459 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 3: to take their marching orders from these folks with such 460 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 3: extreme views to support legislation that imperils family creating treatments 461 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 3: like IVF. 462 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the thing I often wonder about is like, 463 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: did they never think that any of this legislation would 464 00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: be enacted. 465 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 3: They can't square the I'm for IVF, and then you'll 466 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 3: readily have members say, oh, but I do believe that 467 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 3: a fertilized embryo is a person. It's like they can't 468 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 3: square that right, and so they are stuck at the moment. 469 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 3: I mean, look, we know that abortion bands have devastating 470 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: consequences for women, and I think the past two years 471 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 3: of Republican state abortions bands have proven that. 472 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 4: Right. 473 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 3: We've seen across the spectrum, women experiencing severe or even 474 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 3: life threatening complications have been denied care at hospitals, sometimes 475 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 3: until they become septic, others even becoming forced to miscarry 476 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 3: at home. 477 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 2: Right. 478 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: The stories about the women waiting in the parking lot. 479 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: Oh, it's unimaginable. And in states where Republicans banded abortion altogether, 480 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 3: including in cases of rape and incest, women have been 481 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 3: forced to carry their attacker's child to term. Early data 482 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 3: indicates and estimated sixty five thousand pregnancies from rape have 483 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 3: occurred in those states. 484 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: Those numbers seem cleansy to men. 485 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 3: Oh, all be so alarmed about what's happening. So the 486 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 3: fact that IVF treatment is now under threat is something 487 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 3: we knew could happen. 488 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 4: We warned it was. 489 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 3: Going to happen with the way these laws were written, 490 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 3: and I just refuse to believe that it's unintentional. Right, 491 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: How could I give those lawmakers the benefit of the 492 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 3: doubt when anti abortion activists have already replied to me 493 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 3: and messaged me saying that IVF condones murder. That doesn't 494 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 3: even make sense. But it's how some people on the 495 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 3: fringes think about this issue, and they're exerting outsized influence 496 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 3: over the Republican Party that is looking to make good 497 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: on their demands to eliminate abortion nationwide and sweep up 498 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 3: I VF in the process. 499 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about your congressional race. First, 500 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: I want to ask you one other thing, which is 501 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: it's a bill. I guess what the kivy signed into 502 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: quote unquote law. It doesn't, in fact say that a 503 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: five sealved embryo isn't a person, which would be the 504 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: sort of way to do that if you had a brain, 505 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: and in fact says it just indemnifies people doing IVF, 506 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: so it's okay to kill embryonic people. Right. This seems 507 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: like it's going to open the door for even more problems. 508 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're absolutely right, and imagine the shane that they're 509 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 3: placing on couples who are just trying to start a 510 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 3: family by framing the journey this way. Look great that 511 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 3: Alabama legislators moved to reopen access to IVF treatment in 512 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 3: the state, but we also have to acknowledge the damage 513 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 3: that's already been done. I mean, first to the women 514 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 3: who were in the middle of IVF and had their 515 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 3: treatment delayed or stop. Second to the women who were 516 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 3: about to begin their treatment, who now will be scrambling 517 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: for a second time to figure out what's next for them. 518 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: And we have to reconcile that with the fact that 519 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 3: there is a significant portion of the Republican Party who 520 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 3: don't actually support this move in Alabama. Right, people said 521 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 3: the Alabama Supreme Court decision was exactly what the had 522 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 3: in mind when the state wors band was passed. So 523 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: that's not a viewpoint that has not been relegated to 524 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 3: the fringes of the GOP anymore. It's very much front 525 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 3: and center when you hear their judges, their candidates, their representatives, 526 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 3: including many at the federal level, who support the so 527 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 3: called life that conception bills and other fertility that would 528 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 3: ban IVF and other fertility treatments nationwide. I mean, at 529 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 3: the end of the day, the only thing that will 530 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 3: really settle this issue is codifying ROW into federal law. 531 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 4: We didn't have these issues when we had the protection 532 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 4: of Roe. 533 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: So talk to me about your race and also what 534 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: it looks like and everything else. 535 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,239 Speaker 3: So I'm from Massachusetts, but you know, last year I 536 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: was elected as co chair of the Democratic Policy and 537 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 3: Communications Committee, and it's really designed to help the Democratic 538 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 3: Caucus with our messaging right as we head into November. 539 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 3: And you know this is central, right. I mean, we've 540 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: obviously had a record of accomplishment to talk about from 541 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: the last Congress and with the Biden and Harrison demistration. 542 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 3: You know, you've heard them all, all the accomplishments before Mali. 543 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 3: But it's the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, the Chips and Science, 544 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 3: the Inflation Reduction Act, which literally capped insolent prices at 545 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: thirty five dollars, are lowering the cost of premiums for 546 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 3: middle class families. All of those things are going to 547 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 3: be incredibly important as we head into the election and 548 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: talk about what kind of path forward we want for 549 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 3: this country. More of that, more progress or rolling back 550 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: the cloth and freedom is at the center of this 551 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 3: campaign now. 552 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: Right the stakes in this election couldn't be higher. 553 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 3: We've got a Republican nominee for president who was bragging 554 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 3: about appointing the Supreme Court justices who overturned Row, whilst 555 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 3: you know, simultaneously working with dark money anti abortion groups 556 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 3: to craft even more restrictions on women's reproductive rights. 557 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 4: We have a Speaker of the House who's supported a 558 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 4: ban on abortion. 559 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 3: We have Senate Republicans who literally re kept our military 560 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 3: in their fight to prevent women service members from being 561 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 3: able to travel outside of Republican controlled states with abortion 562 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 3: bands to seek the care that they needed elsewhere. And 563 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 3: the bottom line is that the Republican Party is controlled 564 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 3: by people who are not just content with overturning Row. 565 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 3: They want to aband abortion myth of pristone and IVF 566 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 3: in every state in the country. And we just can't 567 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 3: let that happen. And I think that starts with re 568 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 3: electing President Biden and Vice President Harris. Certainly means maintaining 569 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 3: control of the Senate and taking back the House and 570 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 3: making a King Jeffrey Speaker every time I'm in a 571 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 3: room full of women, I just put it so clearly, like, 572 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 3: we have to make sure that our daughters, our granddaughters, 573 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 3: our sisters have more rights, not less than we grew 574 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 3: up with. 575 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 4: And that's exactly what such stake in the selections. 576 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 3: I will be a messenger for that, you know, sharing 577 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 3: my own story, elevating what's happening in these dates today 578 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 3: as people look to just have the family of their 579 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 3: dreams and are faced with this extreme movement of taking 580 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: that away. 581 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just such an insane thing. In 582 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: the year twenty twenty four, we are in this very 583 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: scary moment in American life where Donald Trump could in 584 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: fact become president again, which is actually quite scary, I 585 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: think to anyone who has lived through the first Trump presidency, 586 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could talk about how incredibly 587 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: it is important it is that Democrats went back the house, 588 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: because the really the only thing that can sort of 589 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: stop Donald Trump, or at least maybe keep him from 590 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: just completely destroying everything we hold dear, would be that 591 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: having a house, the house is a bulwark. 592 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, and all you have to do is go back 593 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 3: not that far in history to remember that the Democrat 594 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: majority in the House in twenty eighteen was the only 595 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 3: backstop to a destructive administration, right, and you know, to 596 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 3: think that, you know, we could be on a on 597 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 3: a path where you know, he is the nominee. We 598 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 3: are not far from retaking the majority, as you know, 599 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 3: like the Republicans have a very slow majority in the 600 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 3: House today, so we have to make sure that we're 601 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 3: just making the case. Republicans are lining up behind Donald 602 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 3: Trump right now as we speak, and the Senate is 603 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 3: you know, they're in a tough map for November, but 604 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 3: the House is so within reach and we have to 605 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 3: win full stop. 606 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 4: So what I don't take. 607 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 3: For granted is the memory of what those four years 608 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 3: were like, right, But I'm reminded today as we're walking 609 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 3: into the State of the Union that four years ago, 610 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 3: almost of the day, I mean, like our country was 611 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 3: in the midst of shutting down because we were literally 612 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 3: on the cusp of the COVID pandemic, and how functional 613 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 3: and chaotic those years were, how traumatic they were for 614 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 3: the one point two million families who lost a loved one, 615 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 3: and how we have just recovered right with the Biden presidency, 616 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 3: I mean, getting those shots in arms getting our economy 617 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 3: back on its feet. We are now in the strongest 618 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 3: economic recovery of any country in the world, and we 619 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 3: are continuing to make strides to you know, help folks 620 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 3: from the bottom up in the middle out. As the 621 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 3: President likes to say, but I like to say, families 622 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 3: like the one I grew up in, right, people who 623 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 3: actually needed government to work on their behalf and to 624 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 3: make sure that corporate reed wasn't having a detrimental effect 625 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 3: on their pocketbooks with through price gouging and increased prices. 626 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 3: That is the track that we must remain on if 627 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 3: we're going to make sure everybody has equal opportunity in 628 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 3: this country. And it is devastating to think what another 629 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 3: four years of Trump would be because not only would 630 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 3: we roll back the clock on our on our freedoms 631 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 3: and our democracy, but you would also just stop so 632 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 3: much of the progress that we've made in terms of 633 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 3: bringing manufacturing jobs back to the United States, you know, 634 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 3: making sure that our seniors can afford their medication, making 635 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 3: sure more people had access to high quality healthcare. So 636 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 3: this really is I know we say it often, but 637 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 3: this really is the election of our lives. 638 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 639 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 4: Thank you, Mollie. 640 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: Maxwell Sterns is a professor of law at the University 641 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: of Maryland and author of Parliamentary America, The Least Radical 642 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: Means of Radically Repairing Our Broken Democracy. Welcome to Fast Politics, Maxwell. 643 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 5: Sterns, thank you so much for having me. 644 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this really cool book that you've written, 645 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: and this more more importantly really cool. Yeah, So, Parliamentary America, 646 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: The Least Radical Means of Radically Repairing our Broken Democracy. 647 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: Talk about how you got to the parliamentary system as 648 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: an idea from being a law professor and sort of 649 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: where you came up with us. 650 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 5: I'm a bit of an unusual constitutional law professor because 651 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 5: I use various tools a game theory, economic analysis to 652 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 5: study law and lawmaking institutions. And I noticed that a 653 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 5: lot of people were saying, we need to have a 654 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 5: third party. Somebody should start a third party, we should 655 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 5: have multi member districts to allow third parties. And I 656 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 5: looked at these proposals and I realize that. 657 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 2: They wouldn't work. 658 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 5: We do in this country phase what I call the 659 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 5: third party dilemma, which is that people really want to 660 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,879 Speaker 5: support a third party candidate, but realize that when they 661 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 5: do that candidate, it's likely to operate against their interest. 662 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 5: If you vote for a third party candidate to the 663 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 5: left of the Democrat or right the Republican, it's a spoiler, 664 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 5: or if it's a candidate pulls in from both sides, 665 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 5: then you end up randomizing the outcome. But I realized 666 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 5: in one of to actually have meaningful third parties, third 667 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 5: parties have to play a role. They actually have to 668 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 5: be affirmatively valuable to those who support them, and in 669 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 5: order to do that, they have to give something back 670 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 5: in return for the support. Coalition systems give them that role. 671 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 5: So when a third party joins a governing coalition, even 672 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 5: if it's not leading the coalition, the third party will say, 673 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 5: you know, we'll join your coalition if you give us 674 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 5: these policy concessions, if you give us these appointments to 675 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 5: high offices, or even these appointments on the judiciary. And 676 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 5: the question then became, how do we structure a system 677 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 5: that worked with in our larger context that allows third 678 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 5: parties to emerge and thrive. And that was one of 679 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 5: the major motivations of writing this book, was to demonstrate 680 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 5: how that works and how we could make that our own. 681 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the countries that have this kind of 682 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: coalition government. 683 00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 5: So one of the things that I convey in the 684 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 5: book is that there are two threats to democracy. One 685 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 5: is when you have too few parties. The other is 686 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 5: when you have too many parties. So one of the 687 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 5: reasons I take readers on a world tour in England, France, Germany, Israel, Taiwan, 688 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 5: Brazil and Venezuela is to show what works and what 689 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 5: doesn't work in terms of overcoming threats to democracy. So 690 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 5: the problem that we have in the United States is 691 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 5: that a small group of faction can take over one party, 692 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,839 Speaker 5: as Trump and Maggot did with the GOP, and then 693 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 5: take over the government. 694 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 2: Right. 695 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 5: But alternatively, if you've got too many parties, a small 696 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 5: faction can get more seats than any other party and 697 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 5: then roll over the parliament. Is that like Italy, Like 698 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 5: Italy Right and the lead up to Nazi Germany Right, 699 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,760 Speaker 5: the story of how Adolph Hillery assume power in Brazil 700 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 5: has way too many parties too. So what we want 701 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 5: to do is hit that what I call Goldilocks principle, right, 702 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 5: not too hot, not too cold, not too few parties, 703 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 5: not too many that sweet spot in the middle, which 704 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 5: political scientists typically think is between four and eight parties 705 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 5: in the system. That is that it's actually designed to achieve. 706 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 5: That is called mixed member proportionality, and it was created 707 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 5: for Germany after World War Two. It's more complicated there 708 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 5: than it needs to be. But we can make a 709 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 5: version of that our own and actually hit that sweet 710 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 5: spot and actually encourage third parties to emerge and thrive 711 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 5: and reward people for supporting those parties. 712 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: I think that Americans are too stupid to follow this, 713 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: but prove me wrong, so I don't. 714 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 5: But let me explain this in a way that I 715 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 5: think will make a lot of sense. Imagine that you're 716 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,439 Speaker 5: going in every two years to vote for the House 717 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 5: of Representatives. You cast one ballot for a district election, 718 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 5: just like we do now. Nothing has changed. We have 719 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 5: four hundred and thirty five members in the House of 720 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 5: Representatives represented by district exactly like they do now. But 721 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 5: we're going to add another group of equal size based 722 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 5: on parties. So your second ballot is going to be 723 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 5: for a party. So let's say that you are a 724 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 5: Progressive Democrat for the district. Ways you're likely to have 725 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 5: two major candidates, because what happens when you've got geographical 726 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 5: districting and elections is each side realizes that to win, 727 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 5: you have to fracture the other side and keep your 728 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 5: side intact. That's on both sides. That's how we end 729 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 5: up with two dominant parties, both in house races, Senate races, 730 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 5: and even for the presidency, even including with the electoral 731 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 5: college in the district race, you'll still have two parties 732 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 5: that dominate. But then if you're a progressive Democrat, you'll say, 733 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 5: I want the Democrats to form a coalition with the Progresses. 734 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 5: I'm going to vote for the Progressive Party. 735 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 2: Or if you're a traditional. 736 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 5: Conservative, you'll vote for the GOP, but you might vote 737 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 5: either for the GOP as the party but not the 738 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 5: America First Party, which would maybe be the MAGA party, 739 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 5: Or you might even vote for the regular Democratic Party 740 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 5: but not wanted to form a coalition with the either 741 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 5: MAGA or the Progressives. And so you could get a 742 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 5: grand coalition between centrist Democrats and centrist Republicans. So what 743 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 5: happens in my proposal is that every other election cycle, 744 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 5: just like the calendar we have now, every four years, 745 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 5: we have a presidential election cycle up to five parties. 746 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 5: The leaders of up to five parties will negotiate on 747 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,720 Speaker 5: a scheduled calendar forming a majority coalition until a majority 748 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 5: coalition forms, and then their predesignated slate for president and 749 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 5: vice president assumes those offices. There's a backstop to make 750 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 5: sure it happens, so we don't have endless voting like 751 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 5: you see in some parliamentary systems. And what will happen 752 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 5: in this and just think about this as a voter, 753 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 5: Imagine the campaigns and how different did be Right now? 754 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 5: We're so dysfunctional in our politics and society, driven by 755 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 5: two camps that are growing wider further and further apart, 756 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 5: that those campaigns suggest that the other side must lack 757 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,240 Speaker 5: basic intelligence or even be evil. We no longer credit 758 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 5: the other side with looking at the same information that 759 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 5: we do but coming to a different place. But in 760 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 5: this system, the parties would have to campaign on a 761 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 5: willingness and even enthusiasm to play well with others, to 762 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 5: form coalitions with others, because the only way you could 763 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 5: see exceed in this coalition system is to demonstrate that 764 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 5: you don't have to agree with everything that another party 765 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 5: embraces for you to actually form a government with that 766 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 5: other party. And that's going to change fundamentally the way 767 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 5: our campaigns are conducted, the way voters view parties and 768 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 5: view campaigns, and it's just going to make for a 769 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 5: more functional government. Like you go back to the Kevin 770 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 5: McCarthy debucle and everybody thought, well, all we have to 771 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,760 Speaker 5: do is get the moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans together. 772 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 5: But we have to remember the way our system is 773 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 5: set up, the goal is always to divide the opposition 774 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 5: and keep your side intact. We had no institutional mechanism 775 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,399 Speaker 5: for that to occur, and we can't just encourage people 776 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 5: to plain isser. We need to create institutional structures that 777 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 5: allow third parties to emerge and thrive. And that's why 778 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 5: I wrote this book because I could see why other 779 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 5: proposals would not do that, but I also saw how 780 00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 5: we could do that. 781 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: Are there a few ways that would be easier? You know, 782 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: it's a brilliant idea, right because coalition governments are ten 783 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: times less crazy. But do you think that there are 784 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 1: closed primaries or open primaries and rank choice voting? I mean, 785 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't those two things do a lot to curb extremism 786 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: or not, and why. 787 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 5: It would not for a couple reasons. First, we have 788 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 5: to take rank choice voting. Rank choice voting does none 789 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,720 Speaker 5: of the things that advocates of rank choice voting believe 790 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 5: that it does. 791 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, tell us why. 792 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 5: There's a profound misconception about rank choice voting. So rank 793 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 5: choice voting operates on a premise, and the premises that 794 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 5: we're looking at a standard distribution. If you were a statistician, 795 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 5: you might call it a Guissian distribution, but people can 796 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 5: picture it like a Bell curve. And so what we 797 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 5: have is concentration in the center and then greater dispersion 798 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,320 Speaker 5: at the extremes of liberal or conservative. The idea of 799 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 5: rank choice vot voting is to allow people to rank 800 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 5: the extreme candidates, whether it's on the liberal side or 801 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 5: conservative side, gradually towards the center end up with a 802 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 5: centrist outcome. The problem is that that's precisely what we 803 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 5: don't have, which is feeding our democratic crisis. We have 804 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 5: a bimodal distribution, and if you look at the Pure 805 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 5: Research data from nineteen ninety four to twenty seventeen, a 806 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 5: of this graph that shows although our parties used to 807 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 5: overlap considerably, they are growing further and further apart, and 808 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 5: they're doing it as a result of hyperpartisan gerrymandering, issues 809 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,319 Speaker 5: with the way we receive news and news like information. 810 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 5: But they are growing further and further apart. And if 811 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 5: you look at the special congressional election from Alaska that 812 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 5: used a rank choice voting system and produce the result 813 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 5: of Peltola, this is not against Peltola. But here's the truth. 814 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 5: Studies have been done that have demonstrated the centrist candidate 815 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 5: was Nick baichic because the way people do the way 816 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 5: we do rank choice voting is all also called instant 817 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 5: elimination voting. And when you have a bi modal distribution, 818 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 5: as happened in Alaska, nick Baichick got knocked out. It 819 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 5: turns out that if a percentage of Sarah Palin conservatives 820 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 5: had just stayed home, Palin would not have knocked out 821 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 5: Baycheck and Baychick would have had a better chance of 822 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 5: defeating Peltala. The point isn't a criticism of pel Tla. 823 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 5: Nous voting advocates believe that they're getting a centrist result, 824 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 5: but you're not, because in a bimodal distribution, all you're 825 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 5: doing is speeding up getting to an extreme result. In fact, 826 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 5: Peltola got ten percent or so of the original vote. 827 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,919 Speaker 5: The multi member district idea is a similar thing. Think 828 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 5: about this problem. A lot of these proposed reforms are 829 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 5: designed to replace sitting members of the House and Senate 830 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 5: with moderates. But we have yet to have a constitutional convention. 831 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,919 Speaker 5: Every amendment to the Constitution has come through Congress thus far. 832 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 5: And imagine trying to get on board members of Congress 833 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 5: for a set of proposals the purpose of which is 834 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 5: to displace them with somebody else. My proposal is the 835 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 5: only proposal out there that leaves every sitting member of 836 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 5: the House and Senate and incumbent in their district or 837 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 5: state and actually gives them additional powers. And I think 838 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 5: that's vitally important. 839 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: Right, That's the only way you'll ever appeal to them, 840 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: because they're so obsessed with keeping power too. 841 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:26,279 Speaker 2: Well. 842 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 5: Absolutely, but you know what, Molly, let them become the 843 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 5: heroes of democracy. Imaginally, do have a constitutional convention, And 844 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 5: imagine the convention proposes all of these things. Suddenly Congress 845 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 5: can use these proposals as a pressure release valve and say, hey, 846 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 5: we have a better way to fix our democracy. And 847 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:46,800 Speaker 5: you know, we may really dislike these members of Congress, 848 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 5: but I'm perfectly happy to let them be the heroes 849 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 5: of democracy if they produce a thriving multi party democracy 850 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 5: that lets us in future generations actually live in America 851 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 5: that truly finally embraces genu and democratic norms. 852 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: I want to get back to the rank choice voting 853 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: for a minute, because this is really interesting. Is there 854 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: like a sort of come to Jesus' moment on ranked 855 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: choice voting? Do people get that it is not functioning 856 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: as intended? Or now? 857 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 2: Dumb people but not most people. 858 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,480 Speaker 5: I mean, I would really love Andrew Yang to listen 859 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 5: to one of my podcasts that talks about this. 860 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,439 Speaker 2: That would be great. 861 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 5: I don't think he's going to have that moment because 862 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,920 Speaker 5: he's politically committed to rank choice voting. But there have 863 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 5: been thoughtful scholars who initially advocated rank choice voting and 864 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 5: then realize that it doesn't work, and who have abandoned 865 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,400 Speaker 5: it and have been pleased to see that evolution, because 866 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 5: that's really important. The problem is that voters are getting 867 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 5: misinformation about what some of these reforms can and cannot do. 868 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,719 Speaker 5: And the two central questions we have to ask ourselves, 869 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 5: is will the reforms solve the constitutional crisis that we face? 870 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 5: And are the reforms inactable? And ranked choice voting will 871 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 5: do neither the same thing with open primaries, right, because 872 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 5: the political parties are going to put the kobash on 873 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 5: open primaries, because the purpose of open primaries is to 874 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,320 Speaker 5: rid them of their jobs and replace them with more moderates. 875 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 5: And we have seen examples of the two parties that 876 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 5: hate each other agreeing on one thing, which is keeping 877 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,000 Speaker 5: the two parties together in the right. But what we 878 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 5: have to do is create a set of incentives that 879 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,759 Speaker 5: actually motivate voters to support the third parties and motivate 880 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 5: groups within parties to splinter off where individuals can gain 881 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,880 Speaker 5: greater power than they do in an existing party structure, 882 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 5: where it's either Trump's way or the highway. 883 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: So I live in New York City, we have rank 884 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: choice voting. We got this insane mayor that no one likes. 885 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: What happenspened? I mean, so did he only get like 886 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,919 Speaker 1: three percent of the vote? Can you talk us through 887 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: sort of the thinking there? 888 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,760 Speaker 5: I can't take you precisely through the New York mayoral election. 889 00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 2: I unfortunately don't have to doubt it. 890 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 5: No, it's okay. I just don't have the data in 891 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 5: front of me, and I don't want to speculate and 892 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 5: run the mistake of making a mistake that somebody will 893 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 5: point out that I've missed it. Rather, you know, I'm 894 00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 5: happy to talk about the Alaska when I actually talk 895 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 5: about that one in my book. I do want to 896 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 5: be clear about one thing. I don't want to suggest 897 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 5: rank choice voting can never have a place, right. 898 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,400 Speaker 1: But it's not the solve we thought it was. 899 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 5: But it's not solving our national politics, the very problem 900 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 5: of which is that we don't have a standard distribution 901 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,000 Speaker 5: and that's tearing us apart because the modes for the 902 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 5: two parties are pulling us further and further apart. 903 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,480 Speaker 1: So nuts, So how would you even start going along 904 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: with this? Like, what would be the first move? 905 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 5: Well, the first move is this, right, I mean literally, 906 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,439 Speaker 5: the book came out Today's Thursday, came out two days ago, 907 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,160 Speaker 5: and I'm doing, you know, quite a number of podcasts, 908 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 5: public speaking events, talking to people, getting the word out there, 909 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 5: getting people to read it. I want to get it 910 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 5: in the hands of people who will read it, who 911 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,600 Speaker 5: will write about it who will think about it, Because 912 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,239 Speaker 5: the centerpiece of my book is a virtual world tour. 913 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,719 Speaker 5: I take people to seven democracies to shell them that 914 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,000 Speaker 5: this intuition that we grew up on in high school 915 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,880 Speaker 5: and middle school, this American exceptionalism, is really a myth. 916 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,480 Speaker 5: And what we need to recognize is that we can 917 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,840 Speaker 5: learn from the experience of other nations that have successfully 918 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,399 Speaker 5: or unsuccessfully face down their own threats to democracy. There 919 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 5: are better ways to do democracy in some of those 920 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,840 Speaker 5: ways are ways that are quite adaptable to our system. 921 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 5: So the first step is education to explain how it 922 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 5: is that we can actually improve our system and how 923 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 5: it is that we can do it while getting buy 924 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,480 Speaker 5: in as compared to other proposals with respect to the 925 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 5: people that really have the authority to bring these reforms about. 926 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,799 Speaker 5: I don't know when it will happen, but we are 927 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 5: going to hit an inflection point where we are really 928 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,720 Speaker 5: at the precipice of authoritarianism, which could be very close 929 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 5: or collapse. And what's vitally important is for the American 930 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,480 Speaker 5: electorate to truly understand what the options are and what 931 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 5: options can and cannot achieve particular goals. And that's really 932 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,759 Speaker 5: why I wrote this book, but the book is only 933 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 5: the first step. The second step is getting out there 934 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 5: and talking about it. And I'm going to spend as 935 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 5: long as I can educating the public about these ideas 936 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,920 Speaker 5: and talking to people with influence like you. You've got 937 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 5: a big audience. And if folks in your audience buy 938 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 5: this book, read this book, talk about this book. That 939 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,840 Speaker 5: is a huge first step in the direction of reshaping 940 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 5: the national conversation on what we must do to produce 941 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,839 Speaker 5: a thriving multi party democracy. 942 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Max well Sterns. 943 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,160 Speaker 5: It was an absolute pleasure. 944 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: No moment, do you have a moment of fuckery or 945 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:45,800 Speaker 1: you want me to go first? 946 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 2: You go first. 947 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: So my moment of fuckery is going to be the 948 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,799 Speaker 1: Trump rn C table take up? Or can I do that? 949 00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: Or now Rona again, these are not nobody here, is 950 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: everyone here. There are no victims, only volunteers. And you 951 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 1: don't end up surviving as long in Trump world as 952 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,960 Speaker 1: Rona did without making a lot of compromises about your values. 953 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:22,920 Speaker 1: That said, she found herself having trouble fundraising because people 954 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,120 Speaker 1: didn't want to give money to Donald Trump's legal fees. 955 00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 1: To pay Donald Trump's legal fees. And now she's out 956 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: replaced by Eric's wife, not even like the not even 957 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,319 Speaker 1: like the kid that's like's a AIRB parent, but Eric 958 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: Eric's wife, And now she's got to raise money and 959 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: all that, and she's already said that most of his 960 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,520 Speaker 1: money is going to go to legal fees. But the 961 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: pageantry of standing up there with the check and then 962 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,640 Speaker 1: refusing to say where the check was from is really 963 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 1: peak Donald Trump. And that moment is my moment. 964 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 2: Fuckery goes to Kelly Ann Conway and everybody else around 965 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,440 Speaker 2: the Trumpet orbits because suddenly, I was told very clearly 966 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,320 Speaker 2: for the last five years that Crooked Joe CCCP communist 967 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:20,640 Speaker 2: Chinese chi coom Joe Biden wasn't blocking TikTok because he 968 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 2: wanted the insidious Chinese to brainwash our kids and to 969 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:31,320 Speaker 2: turn them all into trans antifas. And now suddenly, because 970 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,759 Speaker 2: a mega donor in the Republican super pac space named 971 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 2: jeff yass is a major investor in Byte Dance, the 972 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,000 Speaker 2: parent company of TikTok, gave Donald Trump a ton of money, 973 00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 2: Suddenly Kelly Ann is lobbying in favor of TikTok and saying, oh, 974 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,080 Speaker 2: this is this is an essential cornerstone of our democracy, 975 00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,000 Speaker 2: or whatever line they're using this week, whatever line of 976 00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,480 Speaker 2: bullshit they're using this week. But all these Republicans are 977 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,839 Speaker 2: out there now suddenly in love with TikTok, and as 978 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,080 Speaker 2: Mark or as Elon Mussin, Mark zuckerschmuck. Oh really, you're 979 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 2: so subtle, Lelan, I can't get the message there. We'll 980 00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,000 Speaker 2: do better if we don't have TikTok. This is an exact, 981 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 2: perfect exemplar of the utter corruption of the Maga verse 982 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,839 Speaker 2: because these people, these people know exactly what TikTok is. 983 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,160 Speaker 2: Almost everyone understands there's a degree of social harm happening 984 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,799 Speaker 2: on TikTok and that something ought to be done about it. 985 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 2: But the fact that the Republicans have done a complete 986 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,880 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty degreeturn on TikTok, that is my moment. 987 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,400 Speaker 1: It's almost like they don't believe it. Almost That's it 988 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,120 Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, 989 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,239 Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics 990 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what 991 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep 992 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,200 Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again thanks for listening