1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160
Speaker 1: By this time the two combatants were at the edge

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,520
Speaker 1: feet of swords. Then for Dee had caught kou Holland

3
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,280
Speaker 1: unguarded and dealt him a blow with his ivory hilted blade,

4
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,119
Speaker 1: which he plunged into Koholand's breast, and Kohland's blood had

5
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,279
Speaker 1: dripped into his belt, and the ford was red with

6
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 1: the blood from the warrior's body. Ko Holand brooke not

7
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 1: this wounding, for for Dead attacked him with a succession

8
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,720
Speaker 1: of deadly stout blows, and he asked lug for guy bolga.

9
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: Such was the nature of the guy bolga. It used

10
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: to be set down stream and cast from between the toes.

11
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: It made a one wound as it entered a man's body,

12
00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,279
Speaker 1: but it had thirty barbs when one tried to remove it,

13
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,040
Speaker 1: and it was not taken from a man's body until

14
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,159
Speaker 1: the flesh was cut away about it. And when for

15
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 1: Dea had heard mention of the guy bolga, he thrust

16
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 1: down the shield to shelter the lower part of his body.

17
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 1: Kou Holland asked the fine spear from off the palm

18
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: of his hand, over the rim of the shield, and

19
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: over the breast piece of the horn skin so that

20
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: it's farther half was visible after it had pierced for

21
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 1: Diad's heart in his breast. For Dead thrust up the

22
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 1: shield to protect the upper part of his body, but

23
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,759
Speaker 1: that was helped that came too late. The charioteer sent

24
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 1: the guy bulga downstream ku Holland caught it between his

25
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 1: toes and made a cast of it at for Dead.

26
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: And the guy bulga went through the strong, thick apron

27
00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 1: of smelted iron and broke in three the great stone

28
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 1: as big as a millstone, and entered for Dead's body

29
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,959
Speaker 1: through the anus, and filled every joint and limb of

30
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: him with its barbs. That suffic is now said, for Dead,

31
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 1: I have fallen by that cast. But indeed strongly do

32
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: you cast from your right foot. And it was not

33
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: fitting that I should fall by you. And as he spoke,

34
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 1: he uttered these words, oh hound of the fair feats,

35
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 1: it was not fitting that you should slay me. Yours

36
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 1: is the guilt which clung to me on you. My

37
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: blood was shed. Doomed men who reached the gap of betrayal,

38
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: do not flourish. Sad is my voice, alas heroes have

39
00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 1: been destroyed. My ribs like spoils are broken. My heart

40
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: is gore. Would that I had not fought, I have fallen.

41
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:32,919
Speaker 1: Oh hound, Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from

42
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to stuff to

43
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 1: blow your mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm

44
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 1: Joe McCormick. And that opening reading was from the Cecil

45
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 1: a Rahai translation of and I'm gonna do my best

46
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 1: the tying bow colonge. Um, we're gonna be obviously talking

47
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: about Irish mythology today, and unfortunately that means we're gonna

48
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,880
Speaker 1: be trying to pronoun It's a lot of words and

49
00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 1: probably sometimes failing. Please bear with us, but it's done

50
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: out of love and we do our best. That's right.

51
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 1: And it feels good to come back around some Irish

52
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 1: mythology here because Irish Irish smith is rich with fantastic ideas, uh, magic,

53
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,639
Speaker 1: magical beings, monsters, and in this case a very interesting

54
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,959
Speaker 1: magical weapon that is the unreally unlike anything else I've

55
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 1: read about. Robert, you have been on such a kick

56
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 1: of magical weapons these days. You you're you're big into cupids,

57
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: leaden arrows. We did the trident. No, I'm down with it.

58
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 1: This is funny. We also have the older episode about

59
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: the about various spinning weapons of death that I did

60
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 1: with the Christian But even after all those, the episode

61
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: today about Guy Bolga, the spear of the hero Ku Holland.

62
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 1: I think this is this takes the cake. This is

63
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 1: the weirdest, best magical weapon with with biological connections that

64
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,920
Speaker 1: we have discussed yet I am pretty certain of it. Yeah.

65
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,080
Speaker 1: In fact, it's gonna be maybe a fun exercise for

66
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 1: listeners to try and predict where we're gonna land biologically, Okay,

67
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,480
Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, to to get into

68
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 1: the science of the of the Guy Bolga. Now, Robert,

69
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 1: I admit, before we did this episode, I had no

70
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 1: idea who k Holland was, and I probably would have

71
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,840
Speaker 1: pronounced it like Ku Kuklane or whatever this is. So

72
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,920
Speaker 1: this is a hero of Irish mythology who I had

73
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 1: never even heard of before. Yeah, you know, I think

74
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 1: I'd run across the mention of him in passing, but

75
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: I don't think i'd ever actually read any of the

76
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 1: tales about him or even the poems about him. I mean,

77
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,160
Speaker 1: there's a there's a Yates poem co holand Comforted. So

78
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,840
Speaker 1: he's not an obscure character in Irish myth by any

79
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,599
Speaker 1: stretch of the imagination. But Holland is so cool. How

80
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 1: could I have not heard about this? I feel like

81
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: the people who study Irish mythology, I've got to get

82
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 1: in touch with Hollywood or something. Get some movies going

83
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 1: so people know these myths better. Well, yeah, he's quite

84
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 1: a figure. So co Holand is, you know, mythological hero

85
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: that has been described as the Irish Achilles or even

86
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 1: the Irish Incredible Hulk maybe a little closer. Yeah, And

87
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 1: if you can probably already get a sense here, we're

88
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: talking about yet another mythological killing machine, an ancient soldier,

89
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, streaked in gore and honor. So in many respects,

90
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 1: he is what you expect from from a mythological hero.

91
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: You know, he's mighty warrior, he has a sense of nobility,

92
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,119
Speaker 1: and he's sort of pushed into tragic circumstances. Yeah, he's tough,

93
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 1: he's brave, he's brutal. He meets a tragic end right now.

94
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,320
Speaker 1: He's the He's a central character in the Ulster cycle,

95
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: one of the four great cycles of medieval Irish myth

96
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: and the This cycle takes place in the first century

97
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 1: Sea and was written in Old and Middle Irish um.

98
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,600
Speaker 1: He also appears to factor into a certain Scottish traditions

99
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,719
Speaker 1: as well, so but largely Irish. So well, let's do

100
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 1: the life story of Kohlan. So he wasn't born uh

101
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:03,160
Speaker 1: koh holand he was born Satanta satantas has given name

102
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 1: co Holan is more like like Kyle l becomes Superman. Right.

103
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 1: So he's the nephew of the Irish king, King Connor,

104
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 1: and he's the offspring of the union between Connor's sister

105
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 1: and the god lug we we Lug was mentioned in

106
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: that dramatic reading earlier, and Lug is a member of

107
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: the Tuatha di don and the sort of spiritual god

108
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 1: elf beings of of Irish myth. So like it would

109
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,919
Speaker 1: be so as with the likes of say Achilles and Hercules,

110
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,599
Speaker 1: we have a hybrid on our hands here, part human,

111
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,359
Speaker 1: part divine. And and he certainly looked like a like

112
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: a half divine creature. He has uh, he has some

113
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 1: some unnatural aspects to his appearance to definitely line up

114
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,040
Speaker 1: with what you might expect from a demi god, what

115
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 1: like maybe a few too many of certain body parts. Yes,

116
00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 1: for starters, he's just just unnaturally beautiful. He's a paragon

117
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 1: of masculine beauty and strength. And then he has seven

118
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,640
Speaker 1: fingers on each hand, seven toes on each foot, and

119
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 1: then seven pupils in each eye, seven pupils in each oild. Well,

120
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: that sounds like a paragon of beauty. Now, even as

121
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 1: a child, his exploits made him famous. And then King

122
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,120
Speaker 1: Connor himself ends up bestowing the new name on him

123
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: Holland after he kills the great guard dog, the Hound

124
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 1: of Holland, Holland being a smith here with his bare

125
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: hands at a banquet, and so he has to take

126
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 1: on this new name as a penance. Yeah, Like, after

127
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 1: he kills the smith's hound, he I think, offers to

128
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 1: serve himself as the guard of the smith's forge, and

129
00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: so now he is co Holand. And then you know,

130
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 1: at the end of that dramatic reading, he's referred to

131
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 1: as the Hound. So I'm thinking, because he's this paragon

132
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 1: of masculine beauty and strength, there's got to be like

133
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 1: a trend setting kind of thing that people just can't match. Right.

134
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,880
Speaker 1: So it's the same way that after you have a

135
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 1: famous movie star, he starts wearing a certain kind of

136
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 1: hairstyle or something. Now, that's what's cool, and everybody wants

137
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 1: to do it. In this case, in first century Ireland,

138
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: everybody would want to have seven pupils in each eye.

139
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: And so that's what everybody's going to the local witches about.

140
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, make me live forever, give

141
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 1: me huge strength. That's give me seven pupils in each eye. Now.

142
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 1: Of course, as always when we're talking about mythology, it's

143
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that, um, you know, they're varying sources,

144
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: they're varying tellings, and some of the details are going

145
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: to change with the telling at the time. Yeah, they're

146
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,960
Speaker 1: definitely very radically different accounts of Kohlan now. But but

147
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,560
Speaker 1: so we've arrived at this version of Kohol and already

148
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 1: he has a beautiful, powerful warrior with some unnatural characteristics.

149
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,679
Speaker 1: But then, but then he also has an additional superpower.

150
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: But wait, there's more. So he can essentially hulk out.

151
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,680
Speaker 1: It is the thing he can. He can enter into

152
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,520
Speaker 1: a berserker state during battle. But it's not just like

153
00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 1: a mental state like it actually said, to twist and

154
00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 1: deform his body. As he becomes this just unreasonable killing machine. Yeah,

155
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:09,319
Speaker 1: the reastrade as this process. Yeah, and apparently apparently one

156
00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 1: Thomas Kinsella translated this state as the quote warp spasm.

157
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,960
Speaker 1: That sounds like something straight out of the X Men. Yeah,

158
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,840
Speaker 1: it sounds it sounds rather chaotic. I definitely don't want

159
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: to be around a warrior when they were entering the

160
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,440
Speaker 1: warp spasm. It sounds rather dangerous. All right, Well, we've

161
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,679
Speaker 1: got another quote from the cecil A Rahalli translation of

162
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 1: the timebo culuing from the book of Leinster, and this

163
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,959
Speaker 1: is about what happens in the warp spasm. Quote then

164
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 1: occurred cou Hollen's first distortion. He swelled and grew big

165
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 1: as a bladder does when inflated, and became a fearsome, terrible,

166
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,959
Speaker 1: mini colored strange arch and the valiant hero towered above

167
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 1: for dead, as big as a famore or a pirate.

168
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: And I think the famar you're you were saying, Robert,

169
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,440
Speaker 1: that that's like a giant of Irish smith. He has

170
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 1: like a giant ogre type good type being from Irish myth,

171
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 1: so like the Irish version of Yottenheim might be full

172
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,360
Speaker 1: of these. Yeah, yeah, so so clearly co Holand is

173
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: nobody to mess with, Like this is a this is

174
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,559
Speaker 1: a terrifying force on the battlefield. Why why does the

175
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 1: author of this work they'll believe that pirates are gigantic. Yeah,

176
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm less sure on that one. So

177
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,720
Speaker 1: co Holand fights bravely throughout his his military career. Um,

178
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 1: he fights off the forces of Queen maybe at the

179
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,839
Speaker 1: age of seventeen, Uh believe virtually like single handedly, like

180
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,280
Speaker 1: he's that powerful warrior. But he's eventually tricked by warriors

181
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 1: in the employee of Mayve and slain at the age

182
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,439
Speaker 1: of twenty seven. So not a long life. But then again,

183
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: you know you're an Irish warrior um during the first century. Uh,

184
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,440
Speaker 1: there's not a long life expectancy there now. And they

185
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,319
Speaker 1: kind of have to employ some trickery in order to

186
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,679
Speaker 1: overcome his strength, which I think is a common feature

187
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,679
Speaker 1: in like mythic hero cycle. You see that with like

188
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 1: Samson in uh in Jewish legend, and you sort of

189
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 1: see a version of it with Achilles, with like them

190
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: finding out his one weakness. And indeed there's basically like

191
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,080
Speaker 1: a three part plan that has to be employed here.

192
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean that the first one being key. They trick

193
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 1: him into eating dog meat, which breaks a taboo and

194
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,280
Speaker 1: weakens his spirit. Yeah, I read somewhere that this came

195
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,760
Speaker 1: about by pitting two taboos against each other. Like there's

196
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 1: a taboo against refusing hospitality on one hand, but there's

197
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: also a taboo against eating dog meat. So what if

198
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: somebody shows you hospitality by offering you dog meat. You're caught. Yeah,

199
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,520
Speaker 1: you're caught. You're there. That's you know, it's silla and charyptus. Uh.

200
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,760
Speaker 1: So he had to pick, and he picked not refusing hospitality,

201
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 1: but he ate the dog meat, and that that screwed

202
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 1: him up. Now, the next thing that helps if you're

203
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: trying to take out a half divine warrior is to

204
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,440
Speaker 1: have a divine weapon of your own, a magical weapon

205
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 1: of your own that will will help you slay them.

206
00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 1: And so that's what the trio do here. They hit

207
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 1: him with a magical disemb oowling spear that is enchanted

208
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,599
Speaker 1: to kill kings. They apparently had three of these, and

209
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,800
Speaker 1: they used to on his on his accomplices, including the

210
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: charioteer who's like the King of chariots, which seems kind

211
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,959
Speaker 1: of like a a loophole and the whole king thing,

212
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,800
Speaker 1: Like you don't have to actually be a king, you're

213
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,199
Speaker 1: just kind of quote unquote a king of something. But

214
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 1: co Holan has like a really bad dude moment here,

215
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,040
Speaker 1: Like he gets hit with the spear, but he's like,

216
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 1: I'm not going down that easy. Yeah, yeah, he's not

217
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: gonna die uh like that, He's gonna die standing up fighting.

218
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 1: So he like tucks his innerds back into his body,

219
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 1: um and then like stumbles over to a pillar, lashes

220
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 1: himself to the pillar so that he can fight and

221
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 1: die standing up. Like they're gonna have to come and

222
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,800
Speaker 1: take him on his feet. But okay, so he's tied there, dying,

223
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 1: and they got to be afraid, right because co Holan

224
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: is this this killing machine. Even dying cut open with

225
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,640
Speaker 1: a with a kill spear, tied to a rock or

226
00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 1: a pillar, he's gonna be scary. So they don't want

227
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 1: to get too close. I think. One source says that

228
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 1: they had to wait until a bird landed on him

229
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,960
Speaker 1: in order to know that he had actually died. Yeah,

230
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 1: and then they move in. What do you do? You

231
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,680
Speaker 1: cut off his head to be sure. But when they

232
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 1: cut off his head, there's this brilliant light that like

233
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 1: cuts off one of the attackers sword hands, I believe,

234
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 1: and then it's not until they cut off ko Holand's

235
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 1: sword arm that the light dies away and that he's

236
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 1: definitely dead. So it's like you don't have any It's

237
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,960
Speaker 1: one thing to cut away the seat of reason from

238
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,839
Speaker 1: this mighty war, you also have to cut away like

239
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 1: the the physical sword hand of the warrior. There's a

240
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 1: wonderful like full telling of this final battle of one

241
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: in particular that I light came from Lady Augusta Gregory

242
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 1: um uk Helen of Murrath Fimney from nineteen o two. Uh,

243
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,280
Speaker 1: that's all online. I recommend checking that out if you

244
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,440
Speaker 1: want the full blow by blow death of ko Holand.

245
00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 1: So how do we not have a full kou Holand movie? Yeah,

246
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 1: it's seems like we should. I mean, how many Hercules

247
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,439
Speaker 1: movies do we have? Right? Way too many. We could

248
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,599
Speaker 1: easily peel off some of that money into the ca

249
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,679
Speaker 1: Holand enterprise here. Yeah. Now, we were talking before the

250
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,079
Speaker 1: episode about who to cast as Kohland. We could not

251
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 1: come up with a good idea because all of the

252
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 1: best Irish actors we were thinking of to cast as

253
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 1: this Irish hero are now old. But like Pierce Brosnan, Yeah,

254
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 1: Pierce is right there in his name. Yeah, but but sadly,

255
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 1: like we said, he died at twenty seven. You need

256
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 1: you need a young, like powerful and imposing irishman who

257
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 1: is also a really good actor. Yeah. I think some

258
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,920
Speaker 1: of my favorite Irish actors. Let's see. Uh there's uh,

259
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: there's Brendan Gleeson. I guess he's older. Now there's uh.

260
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 1: I love Liam Cunningham, the guy who plays Sir Davos

261
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,040
Speaker 1: on Game of Thrones. But I don't know. I don't

262
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 1: know who the young guy is. Yeah, I don't know.

263
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 1: Everybody can think of as too old, like even you know,

264
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,840
Speaker 1: there's a thinking, well, maybe a professional wrestler. I get

265
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 1: a big muscle bound dude to play ko Holand okay,

266
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,680
Speaker 1: there's there's a guy named Shamus who's like a big,

267
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 1: pale Irish wrestler, but he's too old for the part.

268
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,280
Speaker 1: Maybe he could play the hulked out version of koh

269
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,160
Speaker 1: holand you could do kind of um, you know, like

270
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 1: the Incredible Hulk TV show. We had to lufer Igno

271
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: playing the the actual Hulk. Oh no, wait, this has

272
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 1: given me a great idea actually, like the main normal

273
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 1: Koo holand before he hulks out, he should be like

274
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: super wafy, like a very very wafy, boyish, like teen

275
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 1: heartthrob kind of Irish actor, and then when he hulks out,

276
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,160
Speaker 1: he gets replaced by the bodybuilder. Okay, I like this,

277
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 1: so well, maybe our Irish listeners especially, we'll have some

278
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 1: ideas about who who could be cast in such a film.

279
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 1: Are Irish listeners also, I'm sure are going to get

280
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 1: in touch with us to let us know how badly

281
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,600
Speaker 1: we're saying all these words. I'm sorry. All Right, Well,

282
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, but when we come back,

283
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into the real meat of this episode.

284
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about uh, the the unnatural death

285
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: weapon of Koo holand we're gonna talk about uh Guy Bolga. Alright,

286
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: we're back. So every hero needs a mighty weapon, and

287
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,240
Speaker 1: co holand certainly had one in the Guy Bolga like

288
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 1: a weapon so mighty that it is the it is

289
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: the death weapon of last resort. He only even turns

290
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,120
Speaker 1: to it if he's basically fighting an opponent that is

291
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 1: on his own level. Now, it is not known exactly

292
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 1: how to translate the term guy bulga. Right, It's translated

293
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 1: many different ways. I think we know that guy basically

294
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: means spear, right, But the bulga, there's questions about what

295
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 1: that means. Yeah, that's correct. Guy certainly means spear or dart,

296
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: But the bolga part is open to some discussion. There's

297
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 1: a particular text that we turned to by by a

298
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: writer by the name of Edward Pettit. I'm not going

299
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 1: to give you the full name of that article because

300
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: it will give away what we're gonna get to in

301
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 1: the later later portions of this episode. We will say

302
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 1: the name of the article. We will say it and

303
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 1: say it later. But he points out that that the

304
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 1: guy bolga has been translated as just here's a sampling

305
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,119
Speaker 1: the belly dart, the dart of belly, barbed spear, spear

306
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:18,439
Speaker 1: of bellows, body spear, bagged spear, spear of swelling uh,

307
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: the spear of the sack, forked spear, gapped spear, solar spear,

308
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 1: the spear of mortal pain, the evil spear, spear of

309
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 1: the lightning god, spear of the thunderbolt. And he also

310
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: adds that the bolga part has also been interpreted to

311
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 1: perhaps refer to an inflated bladder that one. So essentially

312
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 1: this would be a fishing spear like one would have

313
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 1: tethered two something that floats. Oh, that's interesting. And then

314
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 1: likewise it's also been potentially connected to the fear bolg Uh. These,

315
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,640
Speaker 1: according to to Carol Rose, the folklore's that often refer

316
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: to when we're talking about mythological creatures and monsters. She

317
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,200
Speaker 1: says that these were the mythic first inhabitants of Ireland,

318
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,719
Speaker 1: defeated by the Tuatha Dedan and then driven into mountain

319
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: caves and forests where they became loathsome monsters. So possible

320
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 1: connection there as well. But okay, whatever bolga means, they're

321
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 1: bellows bulge whatever. We know that there's some kind of

322
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 1: special magic spear. So how does it work? What does

323
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 1: it do? Well? One of one of the things is

324
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 1: that Kohland alone knows how to really wield the weapon.

325
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 1: You know, I mean he he is taught depends it

326
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 1: depends on which version you're reading. He's either taught by

327
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: a god or by you know, a skilled master, and

328
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,680
Speaker 1: he alone has mastery of the guy Bolga. But it

329
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 1: is again, it is a spear, a weapon that you

330
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: only turn to as like basically just a last resort.

331
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: And also if you're just really willing to to absolutely

332
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: murder your opponent. I'm sorry, I'm just suddenly reminded of

333
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 1: one of those newspaper articles from the nineteen twenties that

334
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,040
Speaker 1: we quoted in our death Ray episode of Invention, and

335
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 1: where the guy was like, the death ray is mine

336
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 1: and only I can have it. Yeah, this was his

337
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 1: death ray in a sense. Now in that fantastic reading

338
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 1: at the top of the episode, that story from the

339
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 1: cattle raid of Coolong, Uh, that really gives you some

340
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: of the key attributes of the weapon. Here. So it

341
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 1: is brought to Koholand via a stream. His charity here

342
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 1: puts it in a stream and it like floats down

343
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: to him, and then it is cast by the foot,

344
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: so he picks it up with his seven toad foot

345
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 1: and casts it. Thus Lee aims it with his seven

346
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 1: people die right and uh. And then also in that

347
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: telling we see that it it pierces his opponent through

348
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: the anus, which is not a detail that is present

349
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: in every telling of this story, but it is there. Uh.

350
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: And part of it has to do with the fact

351
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: that his like you know, these are two you know,

352
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: former friends, you know that, I mean, they're still friends,

353
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 1: but they're battling each other, and and they each have

354
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: sort of magical abilities, you know, uh so cool and

355
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 1: alone has the mastery of this uh fabulous barbed weapon,

356
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 1: and then his opponent has his horn skin that protects

357
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 1: most of his body but not the the anus. So

358
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: you might say that ford It has an achilles heel,

359
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: and it is his anus. It's his Achilles anus. So

360
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: maybe instead of saying achilles heel from now on, we

361
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: should substitute for dead Zanus. It's going to be challenging

362
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: to drop that into just casual conversation. I'm good. I'm

363
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: gonna darn well try Robert for the rest of my

364
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: life for dead Zanus. Alright. So that that that Edward

365
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: pettit Um article that we mentioned earlier, and I believe

366
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 1: this is Edward G. Pettit from Lostale University, who is

367
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: apparently something of an Edgar Allan Poe expert and a

368
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 1: monster expert I'm reading, teaches classes on vampire literature and

369
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,360
Speaker 1: so forth. But he drives home that there are several

370
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: key attributes that are that are generally consistent in the

371
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: various tellings here. So first of all, only co Helen

372
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 1: can wield the guy Bolga. Here he alone was taught

373
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: it's it's martial art, and the teacher varies from immortal

374
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: to a sea god. Okay. Another thing he mentions is

375
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: that it's sort of a single use weapon, right, you

376
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: get one shot. Now that being said, I don't think

377
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: he ever misses with the thing, or at least I

378
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: have not read the story where he busted out and

379
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: misses like accidentally hits I don't know, nearby bird in

380
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: the an s instead, right. Um. Also, it's sometimes sent

381
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: to him by water, such as in our our opening

382
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: story there it's it is like it traveled down a

383
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: stream to him, but it doesn't just appear in the

384
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: context of water. He also it's like thrown from below

385
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: the water. So it's also it is a fearsome weapon,

386
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: so for deed more special armor in an attempt to

387
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: protect himself from it. And you know it's clearly you know,

388
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: when he sees that the that this weapon is is

389
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: coming out, uh, you know, he takes notice like it's

390
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 1: gotten dire. It's not just a normal spirit is something

391
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: that is known to be very dangerous, just mechanically and

392
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: its characteristics as a weapon. Pettit says that it is

393
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: quote accurate, sharp, strong, and highly penetrative, to say the least.

394
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: It's also inescapable and deadly, and in later tellings it's

395
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: also said to be venomous and cursed with an incurable

396
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: poison that fills the body. Now, one really interesting feature

397
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: about it is the idea that it is many barbed.

398
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: But at first it's cast as like a single spear

399
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: that is straight and thin, but that once it pierces

400
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: the body, it is said to spread out its barbed

401
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: so that it has to be cut out in order

402
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: to be removed. He can't just pull it out. Uh.

403
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: And this would be kind of like the barbs on

404
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: some existing spheres, like fishing spears sometimes would have barbs

405
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: like this in order to make sure that the thing

406
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: stays on there once you stab it. But it's not

407
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: just that it's barbed. It's that there's this idea that

408
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: it's sort of spreads out within the body. So like

409
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: once you pierce somebody, the point and the barbs it

410
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: is said spread to all of the veins, or spread

411
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: to all of the joints and limbs. I'm not quite

412
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: sure exactly what it means there, except I'm sort of

413
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: uh considering, when do you remember in our episode about missiletoe,

414
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: the plant, you know, the plant parasite, it's a parasite

415
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: on other plants, where we talked about the idea of

416
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: the house story. Um, it's this base sort of root

417
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: structure for missiletoe that grows on the surface of a

418
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: tree or another plant and then pierces its stem and

419
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: sometimes grows down and spreads out little filaments and roots

420
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: structures within the host plant. Uh. And we talked about

421
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: how so this is a parasite. It's not just like

422
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: a vampire sticking its fangs into you, but as if

423
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: it sticks its fangs in and sometimes the fangs like

424
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: continue to grow out inside the body and fill all

425
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: your blood vessels. Yeah, I think this is a great

426
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: reference because I definitely get that kind of like growing

427
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: barbed root like like just rap apid growth of barbs

428
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: through the entire body, like a real true body horror

429
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: weapon to employ here. But another way to think about

430
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: that is that's just sort of like it could be

431
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: a mechanical metaphor for a chemical property. The idea that

432
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: you stab something and it's got venom or poison or

433
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: something on it. And even though you only stab the

434
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: body in one place, the poison spreads out to all

435
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: the blood, right And yeah, so there's you can make

436
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: various interpretations of it, for sure. Um. It's often described

437
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: as being white or bright color. Uh. And of course

438
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: it's often drenched in blood in these tellings because it

439
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to miss and when it hits, it's gonna

440
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: be gory, now, pettit says. It's also often associated with

441
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: demons or fire or hell. It's sort of an infernal weapon. Yeah,

442
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: and even described as being used against actual demons in

443
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: hell and later traditions apparently. And along those lines, it's

444
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: also described as sometimes is behaving in some ways like

445
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: a bellows. So again, anytime we're talking about, say, say

446
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: a magical weapon in mythology, you know, we're not so

447
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: much talking about a single thing, but we're talking about

448
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: a tradition of a thing, various tellings of a thing,

449
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: and different influences who are going to become involved in

450
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: sort of recolor. Uh. And you know exactly how it

451
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: is described. Either way you shake it, it is a

452
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 1: It is a treacherous weapon, even for a mighty hero

453
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: to employ. But then there's one final detail, a key

454
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: detail here, and it has to do with where this

455
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: weapon comes from. Because every great weapon that a mythical

456
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: hero uses it has to have an origin story, right

457
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: of course. And one of my favorite origin stories for

458
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: for like a weapon or a piece of armor or

459
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: something like that, is something that's taken from the body

460
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: of a monster, like like Hercules, you know, he makes

461
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: his cloak out of the Nemean lions, hard to pure skin.

462
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: And in this case, we we have a weapon that

463
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: is made from a sea monster, from the remains from

464
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: the bones of a sea monster. Now it's described in

465
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: some translations is being made from the skin of a

466
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: monster from Hell, but hell, Pettit says, could have been,

467
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: you know, the depths of the ocean. And this is supported,

468
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: he says, by later tales in which our hero coh

469
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: holand defeats barb tailed beasts from the ocean. Now, I

470
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: think Pettit also talks about versions where it is said

471
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: to come from the skull of something called like a doghead, yeah,

472
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: which could be interpreted as some version of like shark

473
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: or dog fish type creature. But also as in some

474
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: way seen as a sea monster. Right, So at this

475
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: point in the episode, I'm going to tell you what

476
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: the full title of his paper is. Cool, Holland's a

477
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: guy Bolga from Harpoon to sting Ray Speer. That's the

478
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: that's the title. So we're gonna take a quick breaking.

479
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: When we come back, we're going to get into Pettit's

480
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: Stingray hypothesis. Alright, We're back, all right. So here's the

481
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: part of the podcast where we play a game we

482
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: often like to play, which is taking a story or

483
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: an object from myth and wondering like, could there be

484
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: a natural world explanation for for what inspired this myth

485
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: or this image or this creature from mythology? And of

486
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: course this this type of game we always like to

487
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: point out, does have a weakness. It has a for diazanus,

488
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: you might say, which is that we we don't want

489
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: to overlook the fact that there's lots of creative imagination

490
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: involved in mythology, and you don't always have to explain

491
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: the contents of a myth by pointing to something that

492
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: really happened in history or really exists in nature and

493
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: saying that inspired it. We don't always know that that's

494
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: what happened. Maybe sometimes that happened, maybe sometimes as people

495
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: just using their imagination. But in any case, this can

496
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: be really interesting game to play because there is no

497
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: doubt that, at least in many cases, things in myths

498
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: were inspired by stuff people saw in nature. And Edward

499
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: Pettitt's hypothesis here is that this mighty weapon was the

500
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: spine of a stingray, or at least at some point

501
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: in its legacy. UH is interpreted as such stories of

502
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: sting ray but barbed weapons are employed then to describe

503
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: this weapon the cohol and wheels. Yeah, and this this

504
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: inspiration could go multiple ways if in fact there is

505
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: such an element of this kind of inspiration in the stories.

506
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: It could be that people saw a stingray spine in

507
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: nature and this led to the original idea of the

508
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: guy Bolga sphere. But it could also be that ideas

509
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: about stingray spines colored later tellings of an existing mythical

510
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: spear that was already in some stories. But let's see

511
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 1: if there's anything to this idea and start by looking

512
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: at what's the stingray. So a stingray is a type

513
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: of ray and raise or cartilaginous fish cousins of sharks.

514
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: This this family of sharks and rays, they're called the

515
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: Elasma bronx. Their fish with skeletons made of cartilage instead

516
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: of bone. It's the same bendy stuff you've gotten your ears.

517
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: And the super order of rays is batoy dea uh.

518
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: Stingrays in particular are found in the suborder of rays

519
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: known as my leo battaforms. Now, like other rays, stingrays

520
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,719
Speaker 1: kind of have a flattened body and a large, somewhat

521
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: rounded pectoral set of fins that are fully fused with

522
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: the head in the body, and this makes them sort

523
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: of rounded off like a pancake fish. Often, stingrays tend

524
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: to swim by sort of undulating their their their wide

525
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: pectoral fins sort of just like waves rather than flapping

526
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: like wings. And stingrays in particular tend to have flat

527
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: bodies that blend in with the seafloor. Often they're camouflaged uh,

528
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: and that's because they spend most of their time on

529
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: the sea floor hiding out, often partially buried in sediment.

530
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: You'll sometimes see sting rays like down down in the

531
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: sediment with like sand piled on top of their little wings,

532
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: and some researchers believe that their eyes are poorly placed

533
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: for hunting, given that their body is this sort of

534
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: flat disc shape and their mouths are down on the

535
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: bottom and their eyes are up on the top. But

536
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: that's okay because they don't need to rely entirely on

537
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: their eyes for hunting. Like sharks, stingrays have organs that

538
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: are known as the ampullae of Lorenzini, and these are

539
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: small pores in the skin that can detect electric fields

540
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: in the water. And of course all animals generate electric

541
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: fields in the water, especially when they contract their muscles.

542
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: So if there is a prey animal out there swimming,

543
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: moving around, or even just with a beating heart, you

544
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: can probably sense some kind of electric voltage difference that

545
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: it is causing in the water with your ampulae of Lorenzini.

546
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: But they've also got a magnificent spine, and that's what

547
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: we're going to be focusing on today. The stingray has

548
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: a spine with venom, sometimes deadly venom that can in

549
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: some cases kill humans. Now, to be clear, stingrays very

550
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: rarely attack or kill humans. Yes, they are not considered

551
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: aggressive at all. That generally, if there's an incident between

552
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: humans and stingrays. It's defensive because the human like stepped

553
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: on the stingray or loomed over it, right, And the

554
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: latter seems to have probably been the case. With the

555
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: most famous case in recent history of a stingray related

556
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: death out of the crocodile hunter Steve Irwin. Oh yeah,

557
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: that was sad. Yeah, yeah, it was a tragic case

558
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: two thousand six. Uh. And he died after he sustained

559
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: numerous stabs from an eight foot wide stingray. He was

560
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: in a shallow water. Um, he was. He was in

561
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: close proximity to the creature they were filming, and the

562
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: theory I read is that the ray might have thought

563
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: Irwin's shadow was a tiger shark and the shallow water there,

564
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: and then it reportedly stabbed him hundreds of times and

565
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: one of the stabs pierced his heart and then he

566
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: bled to death. Yeah, that's it's a sad story. But

567
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: it's not the only time that the people have actually

568
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: been killed by stingray spines. There they can, um, they

569
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: cause I mean severe just direct trauma, like can pierce

570
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: the skin and cause a lot of bleeding. But they

571
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: also in many cases do have very powerful venom. So,

572
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: but I think it is worth noting like, given especially

573
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: that this case occurred in shallow water, that it's not

574
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: unbelievable that medieval or even older people would a certainly

575
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: people that made their their livelihoods at the seaside would

576
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: have encountered and even encountered fatally uh sting rays at

577
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: some point or another. No, it's not unlikely at all.

578
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: And in fact, we know for a fact that the

579
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: ancient people that ancient people's, you know, long before the

580
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: medieval Irish myths, ancient people's knew about stingrays, and they

581
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: knew about the venom on their spines, and they knew

582
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: some things about how these spined UH spears worked. In fact,

583
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: stingray spine tipped spears already exist in ancient hero myths.

584
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: Do you know this? I was not aware of this.

585
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: So you know the story the Greek myth of Odysseus uh.

586
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: This is told in in the Odyssey. For example, Odysseus

587
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: and the witch Searcy had a son named Teleganus uh.

588
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: And remember of course that the story of how Odysseus

589
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: and Searcy got together is that while Odysseus is on

590
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: his way home, he ends up at the man or

591
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: of Searcy, and Searcy is this witch sorceress figure who

592
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: turns all of Odysseus's men into swine, but Odysseus saves

593
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: them with the help of the gods, and then he

594
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: ends up essentially being Searce's living boyfriend for a while.

595
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: Um Meanwhile, while his wife Penelope is home being very

596
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: dutiful and waiting on him, he's like shacking up with Sarcey.

597
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: So as usual, Odysseus is kind of a jerk. But

598
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: uh so he's doing that. And while he's there, he

599
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: apparently he has a son with Searcy, and this son's

600
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: name is Teleganus. But of course, eventually Odysseus has to

601
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: get home to his home of Ithaca, his wife Penelope,

602
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: and his son Telemachus. And so here is a passage

603
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: from Fraser's translation English translation of a passage from Apollodorus quote.

604
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: When Teleganus learned from Searcy that he was a son

605
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: of Ulysses, who is also that's another name for Odysseus,

606
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: he sailed in search of him, and having come to

607
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: the island of Ithaca, he drove away some of the cattle,

608
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: and when Ulysses de ended them, Teleganus wounded him with

609
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: the spear he had in his hands, which was barbed

610
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: with the spine of a stingray, and Ulysses died of

611
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: the wound. Pettitt, in his article also quotes a second

612
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: century Greek text on fishing by an author named Oppien,

613
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: which tells another version of this story. And I'll read

614
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: this quote as well. While the stingray lives, a terrible

615
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: and fiery weapon attends it such I ween as a

616
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: man trembles to hear of. And it lives when the

617
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: stingray itself has perished, and preserves its unwearied strength unchanged.

618
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: And not only on the living creatures which it strikes.

619
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: Does it belch mysterious bain, but it hurts even tree

620
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: and rock, and wherever it comes nigh. That sting it was,

621
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: which his mother Circe, skilled in many drugs, gave of

622
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: old to let to telegan Us for his long hilted spear,

623
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: that he might array his foes death from the sea.

624
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: And he beached his ship on the island that pastured goats,

625
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: and he knew not that he was harrying the flocks

626
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: of his own father, and on his aged sire who

627
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: came to the rescue, even on him whom he was seeking,

628
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: he brought an evil fate. They're the cunning Odysseus who

629
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: had passed through countless woes of the sea in his

630
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: laborious adventures. The grievous Stingray slew with one blow. So

631
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: that's kind of combining, uh weirdly enough, like the like

632
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: the the Odysseus tradition and sort of the Oedipus tradition, right,

633
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: like accidentally coming across and killing your own father. Well, um,

634
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: it's interesting too to bring it back to co holand

635
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: I believe they're in the part of the story there

636
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: is the co holand ends up accidentally killing his own

637
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: son with the Guy Bolga at one point, like he

638
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: does not know that hiss his son and ends up

639
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: engaging in combat with him. Well yeah, Pettit seems to

640
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: notice some pretty strong similarities between these myths, and so

641
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: he's I think this is one reason he has for

642
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: wondering if the idea of the stingray is actually incorporated

643
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: into the Guy Bulga legend. Uh hell. Pett It also

644
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: mentions that some sources claim Cercy had the stingray tipped

645
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: spear made by the Greek forge god have faced us

646
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: out of a spine stolen from a stingray by the

647
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: sea god force Us. And of course we know that

648
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: the guy Bulga was made, at least in some tellings,

649
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: from the body of some kind of sea monster or

650
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: sea creature, right, And in some tellings the art of

651
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: the guy Boga is instructed to Koholand by a god

652
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: of the sea. But just as further evidence of what

653
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: the ancients knew or thought they knew about stingray spines. Look,

654
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: why not have a look at our old friend Plenty

655
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: of the Elder as well. There's a pet Pettit points

656
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: to this passage quote. But there is nothing in the

657
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: world more execrable than the sting projecting above the tail

658
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: of the stingray, which are people called the pastanaka. It

659
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: is five inches long and kills trees when driven into

660
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: the root. That's sort of like what Opian said right there.

661
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: He kills not just animals, but like trees and stones.

662
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how you kill a stone, um, but

663
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: a Plenty continues and penetrates armor like a missile with

664
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: the force of steel and with deadly poison. So Pettit

665
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: sees really strong parallels between the myths of Kuhland and

666
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: telegan Us, and sees some of these parallels between what

667
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: was understood by the ancients about the stingray spine and

668
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: the myth of the guy bulga. The guy bolga is

669
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: said to come from the water. It gets thrown from

670
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: under the water. It's associated with shallow water. Sometimes it's

671
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: said to be made from the body or skull of

672
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: some type of sea monster. And of course it is

673
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: true that sting rays can be found in the coastal

674
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: waters of Ireland, and they can grow to quite a

675
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: monstrous size, and like the underside of them, Pettit points out,

676
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: can resemble a grinning or grimacing face. That's true that certainly,

677
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: if you've ever been to an aquarium, you know they

678
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: if they come up to the glass, Uh, you see

679
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: what looks like a face there, But the eyes are

680
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: on the other side. Obviously, and crucially, the one of

681
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: the issues here is that a stingray spine is not

682
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: like the fang of a snake or something which, once removed,

683
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: is just like a piece of tooth. You know, there's

684
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: nothing to it. Uh. The ancients understood that a stingray

685
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: spine could remain deadly for some time after the ray

686
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: was dead, or after it's removed from the ray, So

687
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: maybe maybe some like forty eight hours afterwards. So detaching

688
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: it from the ray and attaching it to a weapon

689
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't immediately render it harmless. It could still have of

690
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: course the normal like piercing potential, but the venom as well. Uh.

691
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: Now this is interesting because that that epic battle that

692
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: Koholand has with three did It's supposedly rages for three

693
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: days before they finally reached the point where Koholand calls

694
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: for the guy bolga Um. So he couldn't just based

695
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: on this sort of forty eight hour rule is like

696
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: a rough guideline for utilizing a magical sting ray weapon

697
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: in battle. Like, he wouldn't be able to bring that

698
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: to the field with him. Thus he has to call

699
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: on his charioteer to send it down the water to him,

700
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: and then he can, uh, he can fetch it with

701
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: his fabulous seven toed foot and fling it up the

702
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: anus of his opponent. Yeah, so I I don't know

703
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: if Pettit's right about this connection. I mean, he he

704
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: Also he adduces a lot of evidence that we didn't

705
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: even have time to get into. It's a lot of

706
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: stuff about like the minut chief, the translation of the

707
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: word bolga and how that could point to stingrays and

708
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I'll be sure to link to

709
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: the entire article on the Landing page through this episode

710
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. So anybody

711
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: who wants to really dive into the evidence there and

712
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: risk getting stung, you'll be able to do so. Yeah.

713
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: So I I don't know if he's correct about this,

714
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: but it's a really interesting case and another wonderful example

715
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: of bio mythology. Yeah. I love the way that myth

716
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: and legend traditions present us with these little mysteries, like

717
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: that they can be these little puzzle boxes because of

718
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: the odd characteristics of elements within them, you know, like

719
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: the idea of the spear being thrown through the seven

720
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: toed foot from under the water into the this and

721
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: you just wonder like, Okay, is this just weird just

722
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: because it's weird? Or does all this weird disappoint to something?

723
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: Is there something I'm missing? Yeah? Or to what extent

724
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: are we dealing with errors? And translation. Uh, you know,

725
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: things that should be a notable um metaphor or symbol,

726
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: but out of context just sounds like something just really

727
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: whack adoodle looking. Uh. These are always questions one has

728
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: to ask. But that being said, I feel like you

729
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: can always just embrace just the raw alien nature of

730
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: the myth you're presented with two and just enjoy it

731
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: on that level as well. Yeah. Nothing nothing more fun

732
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: than a really impractical weapon. Yes. Uh. Speaking of which, um,

733
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: I have to say, as a fan, a longtime fan

734
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: of the Mortal Kombat games, you know they put one

735
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: on somebody have a Guy Balla in there. No, but

736
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: they should, like one of the things that you have

737
00:40:55,160 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 1: in these games, especially today, increasingly overly implicated fatalities where

738
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, one fighter finishes off the other one by

739
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: doing something just predict you know, like not only slicing

740
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: off their head, but then slicing the head in half,

741
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But really, when you look at

742
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: the story of the Guy Bolga, they've got nothing, you know,

743
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 1: like the Irish mythology has has has all the Mortal

744
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 1: Kombat you need. I'd like to see Raid in versus Kuhlan. Yeah,

745
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: they could put him in there, make him, make him

746
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: a downloadable character. What they have started crossing genres, haven't they?

747
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: I think, I said, I don't play the Mortal Kombat

748
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: games anymore, but I feel like I saw that they're

749
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: They've got like Aliens and Jason Vorhees and stuff. Yeah,

750
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: they've definitely brought in characters from other franchises, but but

751
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: I don't think they've brought in any I don't know

752
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 1: if they brought in any additional mythological figures. They should,

753
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they already play with a little bit of that.

754
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: So um. Now, one additional question I had based on

755
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: all of this, is all right, with the with the

756
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: guy Bolga, you have a kind of impractical weapon that

757
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: is also sure fire like it is gonna end the

758
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: fight if you ever actually pull it out, But yet

759
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: Hill Kohlan will wait three days to actually do it.

760
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: Do we have other examples in our fiction and other

761
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: myths where you have this this sure shot weapon that

762
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: for some reason your heroes never actually produced until the

763
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: last minute. I feel like that happens a lot, but

764
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: I'm struggling to think of an example right now. The

765
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: only one that really came to mind recently was in

766
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: the original Pacific Rim film, like the big Robots, the

767
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: what do they call the the the the agers, they're

768
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: they're beat down there on the point of being defeated

769
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: by the giant Kaiju monsters, and then only then do

770
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: they start using these big swords that pop out of

771
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: their their limbs and just completely decimate the the creatures

772
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: that they're battling. Oh, I know an example. You remember

773
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: the Mighty morphin Power Rangers, How like they would have

774
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: to keep when they faced a more powerful monster, they'd

775
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: have to keep like upgrading to like the next level

776
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: of robots, And you always wondered, like, why don't they

777
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: just go to the top level of robots every time

778
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 1: so they instantly defeat their opponent no matter Why? Yeah,

779
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: why why isn't that your first move to go and

780
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: do exactly instead of destroying half a city battling the

781
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: monster for sure? Yeah, Or for instance, Voltron is another example,

782
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: Like I feel like they would try and battle whatever

783
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: the rob east or the threat of the week happened

784
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: to be with just the lions, and then they're like,

785
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: I guess we need to form Voltron to actually deal

786
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: with this scenario. Just go ahead and form Voltron. That's

787
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: exactly the same thing as the Power Rangers. Yeah, first

788
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: they'd fight it hand to hand, and then it would

789
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: get big magic wand make the monster grow it get big,

790
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: and then they'd form a bigger robot. Uh, and then

791
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: they'd fight it and then they'd have it would get

792
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: bigger again or something, and then they'd have to do

793
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: another thing. They'd have to go to the like the

794
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: final robot level. Well, and I guess maybe in all

795
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 1: of this there is a certain amount of like martial

796
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: arts storytelling, like like I am reminded in professional wrestling,

797
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: for instance, especially in like the Japanese of varieties. Uh.

798
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: They'll be like a super finisher that an individual has,

799
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: like a move that they rarely bust out because it's

800
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: like too dangerous. But if the matches is you know,

801
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: goes on long enough, uh, and there are other finishers

802
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: haven't worked, then they will turn to uh, you know,

803
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: to something like that. You know, the like the gonzo bomb.

804
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: You know something that is that the kind of the

805
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: equivalent of the guy bolga. What is the gonzo bomb?

806
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: It's this guy named uh Kawata would use it and

807
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: it's like a power bomb where he just drops you

808
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: right on your neck. Um, you know, Brutal movie only

809
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: busted it out like a few times. But it was

810
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: kind of like his his super move, his super form

811
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: that he would assume. And so I guess it makes

812
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: sense from a storytelling point of view, if you're you're

813
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: telling the story of epic mythic combatants going at each other,

814
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: that there would be this one move beyond that they

815
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: might turn to. And in the case of the guy Bolga,

816
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: it's not a pleasant weapon. It's a treacherous weapon. It's

817
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: kind of like your hero cheating a little bit at

818
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: the very end out of desperation. Well they had to

819
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: cheat to defeat him in the end too, that's true.

820
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, though I guess he did that. I guess

821
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: it's the opposite order. But but still, yeah, some treachery

822
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: ends up being employed. Uh, even on the mythic battlefield.

823
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: This is the new version of the han shot first

824
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: T shirt and well uncheated first. Oh man, you have

825
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: printed had where it? Speaking of? You know, we do

826
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: have a T shirt store? Um you can, you can?

827
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 1: Can we get those made? I would love to see

828
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: it maybe maybe it will. It will be there soon.

829
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: For the time being that we have all sorts of

830
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: fun like squirrel related and great basilisk related and black

831
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: hole related designs, as well as just you know what

832
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: you might expect, like logo based designs as well. You

833
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 1: can find that if you go to our mother ship

834
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. There is a

835
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: link at the top for our store. It's our public store.

836
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: Check that out. It's a fun way to support the show,

837
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: but the best way to support the show is to

838
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: simply rate and review us wherever you have the power

839
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: to do so. Wherever you get this podcast, also be

840
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: sure to check out our other show, Invention, that's already

841
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: out there. I think we're what about a dozen episodes.

842
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: In each episode a new life changing, world altering inventions.

843
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: Life changing the world altering sometimes just weird and small

844
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: and interesting, that's true, but I mean at all it's

845
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: still it ultimately changes the shape of life in some

846
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: way or another, like even things that didn't quite come

847
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: to being, like the Death Ray. Yeah, I can't disagree

848
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: with you there, So definitely check out Invention. If you

849
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: like this show, We're pretty sure you'll like that show too. Anyway.

850
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: Big thanks as always to our excellent audio producers Alex

851
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: Williams and Tari Harrison. If you would like to get

852
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 1: in touch with us directly with feedback about this episode

853
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future,

854
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: just to say hello, you can email us at blow

855
00:46:49,600 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: the Mind and how stuff Works dot com for more

856
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how

857
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.