1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. It's time now for another bonus podcast, 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: which means this segment did not air live on the show. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: If you find this of use or you have suggestions 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: for other bonus podcasts, feel free to email me directly 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: through the website Michael Berryshow dot com Michael Berryshow dot com. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: I do read those, I do forward those when we 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: have good ideas to Jim Mudd and we go out 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: and find things. And a number of our bonus podcasts 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: come from your great suggestions. Some of them make it 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: on the show during the week as well. Michael Schellenberger 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: is the founder of Public the CBR, Chair of Politics, 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: Censorship and Free Speech at the University of Austin. A 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: fine institution that has risen over the last few years. 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Is not ut It's not the Longhorns. This is a 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: university of sort of classical studies and the best selling 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: author of San Francico, Why Progressives Ruined Cities an Apocalypse 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: Never while environmental alarmism hurts us all. He sat down 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: with Audrey Unverfirth of The Uncaptive Mind, and the two 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: discussed the rise of the counter elite in response to 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: the elite ruling class becoming more aligned with other elites 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: around the world than they are with their own countrymen. 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: That's called globalism. One example is the wef there are others. 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: It's this elitism that has led to open borders and 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 1: mass migration into Western society, which if it's not turned back, 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: will destroy us all. Hope you find this conversation enlightening. 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: The society is disordered, the elites are disordered. You're getting 27 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: kind of boundary violations. Things are in the wrong place. 28 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: So you see a breakdown of the traditional offences as 29 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: Chesterton described it, that protects society. So, you know, on 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: the gender it allogy, you see the traditional protections for 31 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: children are undermined, and the idea of changing their bodies 32 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: to affirm really an imagined identity. We see the actual 33 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: borders between countries being eroded, you know. We see efforts 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: to basically not enforce laws, undermining you know, basic laws. 35 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: So you see all of these essential offenses, structures, foundations, 36 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 2: whatever else you're going to call them, of Western civilization 37 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: coming under attack by the elites, particularly by the left elites, 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: but really the whole elite class in general. 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 3: Michael, what is the pathology of our elites? 40 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: I think it's I think some context is important. So 41 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: you know, we're at the end of an important political 42 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: cycle that was not a four year cycle or even 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: a ten year cycle, early an eighty year cycle. We 44 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: came out of World War Two. The United States and 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: Europe had this open society vision that I think was 46 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: quite healthy. It was trying to push back against the 47 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 2: dysfunctional nationalism that had led to two world wars. But 48 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: you know, as time went on, it became just too extreme. 49 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: The open society dogma became this idea of kind of 50 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: homogenizing all cultures, exaggerated levels of integration. You can see 51 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: mass migration without real consideration of how to assimilate folks 52 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: or what the impact would be on other unskilled citizen labor. 53 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: So I would say the pathology of our elites had 54 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: to do with really the classic pathology of civilizations in decline, 55 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: I'm afraid, which is the elites start to identify with 56 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: elites in other countries more than with their own working class. 57 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: And also then the elites started to import other workers, 58 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: and they start to identify with other workers from other countries, 59 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: ostensibly in the name of empathy and compassion, but in 60 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: reality as a way to kind of keep the working 61 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: class down, to maintain status for themselves, for elites in 62 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: the society to essentially live, you know, like feudal nobility 63 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: with a whole servant class from around the world. So 64 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: I think that's at the heart of it, is just 65 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: a kind of decline of solidarity by elites with with 66 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: their fellow countrymen. 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 3: And what are the consequences of that? What does it 68 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: mean to live in a nation where the elites feel 69 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 3: more allegiance to their elites across continents than to the 70 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 3: people living down the street from that. 71 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really corrosive, you know. 72 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: So you see, I think we see it most dramatically 73 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: in the mass migration, which you know, we actually do 74 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: the best job in the United States of assimilation. I 75 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: think it's been much more difficult for Europe to do it, 76 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 2: both because of the kind of cultures that exist here. 77 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: Ours is heavily in immigrant culture already in Europe. They 78 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: have their own traditions. Plus I just think they're they're 79 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: bringing you know, it's a large Muslim population that's being 80 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: brought to the European Union. The United States has traditionally 81 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: been a Catholic Christian population with a different set of 82 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: values that are more i think aligned with Western civilization. 83 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: So mass migration has been a big part of it. 84 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: You know. I think we've seen the rise of this 85 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: digital censorship complex or you know, digital Services Act is 86 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: what it's called. That's really a digital censorship act, a 87 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: real intolerance of any different points of view, particularly nationalists 88 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: or populist views, in favor of really imposing the official 89 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 2: woke globalist dogma that I think we're all familiar with. 90 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: So it's really I think that the term for it 91 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: is sometimes given is an arco tyranny. That on the 92 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 2: one hand, it's you know, anarchic on the streets, there's 93 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: increasing lawlessness. There's the grooming gangs in Great Britain, which 94 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: is one of the most shocking, you know, sex abuse 95 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: scandals in recent history. And at the same time it's 96 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: tyrannical and you have small groups of experts operating out 97 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: of Brussels that think they should decide what the truth 98 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 2: is and decidable kind of information the masses are allowed 99 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: to be exposed to. 100 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: Right, we have drugged up homeless fighting with machetes on 101 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: the streets of Austin Texas. Meanwhile, we have censors in 102 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 3: the EU telling us what we can and cannot say. 103 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: Right in some sense, the like I think one of 104 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: the ways to think about it is the society that 105 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: the society is disordered, the elites are disordered. You're getting 106 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: kind of boundary violations. Things are in the wrong place. 107 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: So you see a breakdown of the traditional offences as 108 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: Chesterton described it, that protect society. So, you know, on 109 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: the gender ideology, you see the traditional protections for children 110 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: are undermined, and the idea of changing their bodies to 111 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: affirm really an imagined identity. We see the actual borders 112 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: between countries being eroded, you know, we see efforts to 113 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: basically not enforce laws, undermining you know, basic laws. So 114 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: you see all of these essential offens, structures, foundations, whatever 115 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 2: else you're going to call them, of Western civilization coming 116 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: under attack by the elites, particularly by the left elites, 117 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: but really the ho elite class in general. 118 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: And so Nietzsche has this parable of the mad man, 119 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 3: which I love and I keep thinking of it as 120 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: I read your work lately, because when Nietzsche's madman lights 121 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: a lantern in the bright morning hours, he cries that 122 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: we've killed God where his murderers, all of us are 123 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 3: his murderers. But the mad man is mad. The morning 124 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: is bright, And I wonder sometimes if there are a 125 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 3: few brave voices like yours who have been calling our 126 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 3: attention to the rise of the total state for a 127 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: long time now, but there haven't been nearly enough voices 128 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,119 Speaker 3: calling our attention to what's happening. And in America right now, 129 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 3: there's this sort of weariness tied with hope, if that 130 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 3: makes any sense, where we're so excited about the vibe 131 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 3: shift that I'm personally tired of the negative headlines. We 132 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: want something to be hopeful in, Yes, And so I wonder, 133 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 3: as someone who's been calling our attention to mass censorship 134 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: for so long, how hopeful should we be If you've 135 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: been giving us these warnings for a while now, and 136 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 3: they've perhaps fallen on too many deaf ears, can we 137 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: still be hopeful about what's next? 138 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's important to remember that you know, 139 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: the future is still being created. It's being created by us. 140 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: So I think if you go into the future, if 141 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: you look forward with an overly pessimistic attitude, you're not 142 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 2: going to be able to you've already lost. Yeah, you've 143 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: already you've already given up, So you have to have 144 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: some positive vision. Look, I think, you know, we saw 145 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 2: a huge political revolution in the United States. I mean, 146 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: it was it's extraordinary what's happened. And I certainly have 147 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: my own problems with President Trump and my own criticisms, 148 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 2: but what he's done on certain issues has really been 149 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: quite transformative just in the last few days, and many 150 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: people know that. I've been very advocate, a big advocate 151 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: for free speech, not just in the United States but 152 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: around the world, here in Europe, but also in Brazil, 153 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: where I'm under criminal investigation for the Twitter files. Brazil. 154 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: When you know, pro democracy advocates, pro free speech advocates 155 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 2: went to President Trump and they said, we need to 156 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 2: put financial sanctions on this particular Supreme Court justice, who's 157 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: really one of the bad actors. Trump's response was, we'll 158 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: do fifty percent tariffs instead. He is more audacious than 159 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: the advocates in many of these spaces, and the result 160 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: of those tariffs, I think is that Brazil is going 161 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: to have to change its policies. In fact, we've already 162 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: seen the Supreme Court now is divided. Just this is 163 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 2: all happening in the last like forty eight hours. The 164 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 2: Supreme Court is starting to become divided. You see President 165 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: Lula is starting to soften his tone. Look, the United 166 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: States remains the global hedgemon, you know. I think, you know, 167 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: not just in the West, but globally. And so when 168 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: the United States says we're going to put fifty percent 169 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: tariffs on Brazil, well even accepting the orange juice and 170 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: airline business, which are these two big businesses, it's powerful. 171 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 2: And so that gives me a lot of hope. Similarly 172 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: with Europe, and we saw JD. Vance come to Munich, 173 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: I believe back in January give a great speech saying 174 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: the world threat to Europe is not from Russia or China, 175 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: it's from within. That's a militarism from within. So on 176 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: the one hand, you know, I think Nietzsche's is obviously 177 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: the person that did the most to draw attention to 178 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: the fact that the Enlightenment represented by the light in 179 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 2: that parable killed God in the sense that it really 180 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: undermined traditional Christian faith is what he was writing about. 181 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: But I think that Nietzsche also he was a huge 182 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: fan of Emerson. I just visited the Nietzsche House, I 183 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: didn't quite appreciate how much he appreciated Raffaldo Emerson. And 184 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: Emerson was an American and America is fundamentally different from 185 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 2: Europe in so many ways. It is a place that 186 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: nurtures constant creation and recreation. And so we've seen this, 187 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: you know, return of the strong gods in the form 188 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: of Donald Trump, but also in Elon Musk. You see 189 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: it in a you know, variety of contexts. I think 190 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: the United States coming back and saying no, you know, 191 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: the center of power is no longer in Europe and 192 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: it's in the United States, and we're going to start 193 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: demanding that the light of freedom, you know, shine once again. 194 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: And I think that is that is the thing I 195 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: have the most hope for, you know, Worts and all 196 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: with Trump, He's done certain things that I think express 197 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: a kind of audacity that only an American president could 198 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: pull off, right right. 199 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: And and then I wonder for younger listeners who are 200 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: watching this and wondering what to do with their lives. 201 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 3: Perhaps they have hope and how things are changing, but 202 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: they don't want to lie. They recognize that most of 203 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 3: our institutions are decaying or they're already broken. They want 204 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 3: to build a new Yeah, what advice do you have 205 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 3: for them? 206 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: I mean, at a practical level, you need to be 207 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: pursuing activities that AI is not going to be able 208 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 2: to replace. So the older entry level jobs that were 209 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: in many institutions of doing summaries of existing information that 210 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: AI is going to replace and do, and so it's 211 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: not enough. I think that it's the soft skills are 212 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 2: coming back. Persuasion, sales, investigations. You know, people exaggerate AI 213 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: and what it can do. I think it's important to 214 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: remember that it can't create new information. People might think 215 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 2: it is, but it's really just predicting what the next 216 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 2: you know, word or sentence or paragraph would be. So 217 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: learning how to do investigative work, learning how to be persuasive. 218 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: I think living in truth, as you said, I think 219 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: it's important to keep in mind that we have souls, 220 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: and I would say those atheists that are watching this, 221 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: I think they, even the atheists, would agree that we 222 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: have something like a soul or something transcendent about us 223 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 2: that makes us a distinctive being here on earth. And 224 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: as you said, keeping true, you know, keeping true to that, 225 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: keeping true to a north star, that for me, and 226 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: I think a lot of other people has always paid off. 227 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: And it's much simpler to it's much easier. You don't 228 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 2: have to you don't have to reinvent the wheel. I mean, 229 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: we have these classical virtues. Obviously they need to be 230 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: brought into your life, but learn the classical virtues. They 231 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: get passed down for thousands of years for good reasons, 232 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: because they are such a good guide for life. So 233 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: there's a lot of reasons for optimism right now as 234 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: well among young people, including on AI, including these transformations 235 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: of the world. Look, the last thirty years had a 236 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: lot of ugliness to them, and I think that the 237 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: next thirty years there's going to emerge a lot of 238 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: real bright spots and we should We have a lot 239 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: of reasons for hope. 240 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: I hope. So, And how are you thinking of the 241 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: incentives of media right now? Sometimes I worry that the 242 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: incentives of new media are all wrong. On one hand, 243 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 3: it's amazing that some and can have an idea and 244 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 3: they can post it from their living room and it 245 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: can receive millions of views at the same time, Once 246 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 3: you have built an audience, to what degree are you 247 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: captive to that audience? And how are you thinking about 248 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: that as you're running public and sharing global news stories. 249 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: It's a constant challenge. I mean, I'll be honest with you. 250 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: I mean, my pain subscribers who I love and I 251 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: have nothing negative to say about, but they really want 252 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: news about the United States. And you know, like I 253 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: did work, some of the most important work in my 254 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: life I did last year in Brazil, and it was 255 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: not something that my subscribers, you know, were really interested in. 256 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: So you have to make certain decisions, you know, you 257 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: have to balance these things out, is the best way 258 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 2: to say it. I mean, I love covering American politics too, 259 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: so it's not like I won't do that. But you know, look, 260 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: I think the society's very rich, and there's a lot 261 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: of institutions that have plenty of money. There's certainly plenty 262 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: of wealthy people that are willing to support you. I 263 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: think we are seeing more people willing to subscribe to 264 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: new media. I think this is the only time in 265 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: the history of humanity that an aspiring journalist can make 266 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: money directly from subscribers. I mean, it's incredible to think 267 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: that in the thousands of years of writing, mass production 268 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: is now in the is a possibility for everybody, and 269 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: so you know, really concentrate on doing new things. The 270 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: market right now in media is oversaturated with podcasters just 271 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: repeating what other people are already reporting out. So I 272 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: think there's a huge untapped market for investigations, investigative journalism. 273 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: We actually have a nonprofit that we work with alongside 274 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: public called Civilization Works. We've got a little fund of 275 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 2: money we fund investigative journalism through it. You know, so people, 276 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: you know, if you are looking to do something interesting, 277 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: get the idea first and then go figure out how 278 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: to find money. I think that's one of the most 279 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: important things, because I think there's plenty of people that 280 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: will support that kind of good work. And content remains king. 281 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: As we used to say, it's not about everybody has 282 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: access to a full blown media landscape, but original content 283 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: is still extremely valuable, and you can see it when 284 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: there's something interesting like just an ad for blue Jens 285 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: right now is just being talked about for much longer 286 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: than it probably should be, or an appearance by Kamala 287 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: Harris on a late night television show talked about more 288 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: than needs to be. So people are hungry for new content, 289 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: and so that means that really developing a practice to 290 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: be creative is essential and I think will be rewarded 291 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: in the market. 292 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, And on one hand, the average American has so 293 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 3: much power right now. And at the same time, we 294 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: were talking yesterday about how every society has an elite. 295 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 3: The communists might pretend otherwise, but you always have an elite. 296 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 3: And so what happens after our elite fail and how 297 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: shall we be thinking about cultivating a new elite or 298 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 3: a new natural aristocracy who actually deserve their position in society. 299 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: Well that's I think that's one of the big events 300 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 2: over the last ten years is the creation of accounter elite, 301 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: which I think clearly now exists. I mean it took 302 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 2: a period of eight years. You know, Donald Trump was 303 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: the elite. I mean, he's a wealthy developer. He was 304 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 2: the first to kind of form a bond with working 305 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: class voters. I mean that's really the heart of the 306 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: MAGA movement. It really took him til twenty twenty four. 307 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: It took him getting shot in the head for the 308 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 2: Silicon Valley community to really come on board, to be 309 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: more comfortable with him. There was certainly some leaders like 310 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: David Sachs who had been a longtime Republican or Peter Teel. 311 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 2: But what you saw in twenty twenty four I think 312 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: was leaders in Silicon Valley, including Mark Zuckerberg, you know, 313 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: Jeff Bezos. I think they realized that they couldn't just 314 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: kind of keep going along with the woke mob, that 315 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 2: they really needed to take a stand against it. And 316 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 2: so we've seen this happen now. You know, Facebook has 317 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: fired and defunded many of its so called fact checkers, 318 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: it's censorship police. And we've now been seeing many people, 319 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 2: many journalists, many of the worst journalists at the Washington 320 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: Post leaving, you know, just taking their payoff packages and 321 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: going somewhere else. So I think we are still the 322 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: very beginning of seeing the counter elite start to take measures. 323 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 2: And look, it has much more legitimacy already than the established, 324 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: you know, left liberal elite that we've had since that's 325 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: really been in Paris since World War Two. So another 326 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: reason for optimism. I mean, all those people that left 327 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: the Washington Post are going to need to be replaced. 328 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: I mean, if you're a young journalist and you're twenty two, 329 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty four, you may have a great role 330 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 2: at the Wash at a new Bezos owned Washington Post. 331 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: You might have a new role at Meta, where Zuckerberg 332 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: seem you know, he's been doing a rebrand that appears 333 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: sort of coterminous with his midlife crisis. Could be very 334 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 2: positive in that sense. Elon Musk is still a very 335 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: live action figure when it comes to AI. So look, 336 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: I just think there's huge amounts of possibility. I always 337 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: say to young ambitious people, come to Austin, go to 338 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: San Francisco, go to New York. Those of the America 339 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: still has it, you know, the action. It's not going 340 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: to be in China, where if you're successful, they put 341 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: you in prison or they take your company. It's not 342 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: going to be in Europe where you are just stifled 343 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: by bureaucracy and censorship and over regulation. It's still happened 344 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: in the United States of America. And that is a hope, 345 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: not just for the United States, but I think for 346 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: the whole world. 347 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: And in closing, you taught one of our most popular 348 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 3: courses at the University of Austin. You're teaching again this 349 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 3: coming school year. And so just to wrap things up, 350 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 3: give us a book recommendation or two, because this interview 351 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 3: was far too short. We're pressed for a time. I'm 352 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 3: so grateful to talk to you, but point us to 353 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 3: some books that our audience should search out. 354 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: Sure. First of all, I love being at the University 355 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 2: of Austin. I've been so grateful there. I had such 356 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: an amazing experience with you when I gave that speech 357 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three. I think you did a terrific introduction. 358 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: I was so impressed by your poise and how articulate 359 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 2: you were. But I've just loved being there. We're building 360 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 2: a house in Austin at this very moment, and I 361 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: was going to teach a class on nietzsche Christianity. I 362 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: still would love to teach that class, but I was 363 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 2: so shaken up by the impact of AI and the 364 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 2: need to make sure that my students learn skills that 365 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 2: are not AI. I'm going to do a class on 366 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: investigative journalism, of which there's a great market for those 367 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: people that can learn that, and then a class on 368 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: the psychology of persuasion, which should teach skills, you know, 369 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 2: evidence based skills that can serve people in anything that 370 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 2: they do in life, including just being in normal human relations. Gosh, 371 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: you know, I loved the summer. I read The Master 372 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: and his Emissary by Ian Milgilchrist, which he's a neuropsychologist 373 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: or he is a neuroscientist and philosopher. It's a book 374 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: that brings together there are a lot of insights from 375 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: people like Nietzsche and Heidegger. It argues that our society 376 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: is overly left brain focused. It's too linear, it's too mechanistic, 377 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: and that we need to be more right brain. Think 378 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: of renaissance, think of context. So I loved that book 379 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 2: because I think it gave language and it's really just 380 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: a metaphor left brain right brain for a broader set 381 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: of things in society. So if I had to recommend 382 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: one book, I think that would be the one. 383 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: If you liked the Michael Berry Show in podcast, please 384 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 385 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest 386 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: in being a corporate sponsor and partner can be communicated 387 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: directly to the show at our email address, Michael at 388 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our website, 389 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and Podcast 390 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: is produced by Ramon Roeblis, the King of Ding. Executive 391 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: producer is Chad Nakanishi. Jim Mudd is the creative director. 392 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean. 393 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our 394 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated 395 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: into our production. Where possible, we give credit, Where not, 396 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the 397 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple 398 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally, 399 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp 400 00:22:54,440 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and 401 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.