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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: discuss all things mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

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Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

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Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

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Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

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Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: for session thirty six of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: I have a real treat for anyone who's looking to

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Speaker 1: have a stronger and healthier relationship with their current partner

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Speaker 1: or future partner. Today I'm joined by doctor Ayana Abrams.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Abrams is a licensed clinical psychologist in the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: metro area and CEO founder of Ascensioned Behavioral Health LC.

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Speaker 1: She obtained her master's in doctorate in clinical psychology at

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Speaker 1: the Chicago School of Professional Psychology with an emphasis on

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Speaker 1: ethnically culturally diverse individuals and couples in families. She completed

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Speaker 1: her predoctoral internship and postdoctoral fellowship at Emory Universities Counseling

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Speaker 1: and Psychological Services. Doctor Abrams specialties include working with transitional

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Speaker 1: age youth sixteen and oder, college and graduate in professional students,

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Speaker 1: young professionals, entrepreneurs, and adults. Hers of focus include relationship

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Speaker 1: and marital distress or confusion, anxiety, depression, trauma, stress management, grief,

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Speaker 1: and life transitions. She has extensive experience and specializes in

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Speaker 1: work with people of color, specifically black women and black couples,

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Speaker 1: and uses her advanced training in emotionally focused couples therapy

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Speaker 1: to help relationships repair and thrive. She enjoys providing consultations

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Speaker 1: and guest speaking opportunities to organizations, schools, churches, hospitals, and

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Speaker 1: other media. She has also been featured on Huffington Post Live.

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Speaker 1: Dr Abrams and I chatted about how she uses e

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Speaker 1: f t are emotionally focused therapy to work with couples.

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Speaker 1: We talked about what this looks like in the therapy office,

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Speaker 1: how our fights are typically not about the things we

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Speaker 1: think they are, and she shares how she might work

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Speaker 1: with some of your favorite TV couples. This is definitely

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Speaker 1: one you don't want to miss here's our conversation. So

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today, Ayanna, thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me Joy. I'm excited. So I am

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Speaker 1: very happy to have you here today to talk with

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Speaker 1: us about couples therapy. UM. So we've had some marriage

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Speaker 1: and family therapist on the podcast before where we have

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Speaker 1: not deal specifically into what it looks like for a

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Speaker 1: couple to be in couple therapy. So I'm happy you

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Speaker 1: were able to join us today. So one of the

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Speaker 1: first things that I wanted to talk about is this

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Speaker 1: idea that I often hear about if a couple of

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Speaker 1: needs therapy, then that means they're already doomed. So what

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Speaker 1: are your thoughts about that? Of course they are not, dude,

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Speaker 1: I get it. Though, I get it. There's a sense

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Speaker 1: that you know couples often come in with, UM, is

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Speaker 1: that this means that we are at the end of

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Speaker 1: that there's nothing, so this is our our last resort UM,

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Speaker 1: And I really love couples to come in before you

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Speaker 1: get to that point of crisis. UM. You know, going

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Speaker 1: to couples therapy, going to any kind of therapy, but

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Speaker 1: particularly couples there to be it's typically it tells me

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Speaker 1: that it's a sign of how valuable this relationship is

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Speaker 1: to you, how meaningful it is, Um that you want

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Speaker 1: to be able to figure things out because you want

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Speaker 1: to spend you know, the rest of your life or

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Speaker 1: however long you know, with this person. So it actually

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Speaker 1: tells me how important this relationship is, not at all

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Speaker 1: a sign of doom. Um. But I will say that

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Speaker 1: because of that hallmark of this means that things are

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Speaker 1: so bad, you know, the research shows that that couples

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Speaker 1: typically wait between like five I think five and like

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Speaker 1: seven years after the thing has already been so bad

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Speaker 1: to actually find a therapist. So they wait a really

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Speaker 1: really long time to seek help, right. Yeah, I've definitely

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Speaker 1: heard that stat to um, you know, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably true for als, also for individual therapy, right,

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Speaker 1: like people mull over the idea of going to a

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Speaker 1: therapist for a long time, typically before they actually make

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Speaker 1: that call, yeah, versus having you know, using therapy is

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Speaker 1: something that can be more preventive, more skills building, more

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Speaker 1: strength building, because a lot of things that we talk

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Speaker 1: about in couples therapy, you're not taught as children or

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Speaker 1: in your kind of everyday life or through school. UM.

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Speaker 1: So some so for often for couples, UM, it's a

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Speaker 1: whole new way of interacting with each other. And so

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Speaker 1: do you have any tips for somebody who may be

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Speaker 1: listening who wants to go to couples therapy and thinks

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Speaker 1: that them and their partners should go, um, but the

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Speaker 1: partner is reluctant, like any tips for like how to

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Speaker 1: talk somebody into it. That happens often. Uh, you see

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Speaker 1: that a lot where one where one partner UM. And

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Speaker 1: in in my with the particular particular theory that I

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Speaker 1: use emotionally focused therapy, UM, there's often one partner who's

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Speaker 1: the withdrawal and one partner who is the pursuer. So

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Speaker 1: we'll often see the pursuer be the one who pursues therapy. Right,

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Speaker 1: let's get this face, let's kind of do this, and

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Speaker 1: the withdrawers kind of like I'm getting dragged in here.

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Speaker 1: But I'll do it because he wants to do it,

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Speaker 1: or I'll do it because she wants to do it. UM.

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Speaker 1: So what I recommend to when I'm working even with

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Speaker 1: individuals who have some concerns and want to talk about it, UM,

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Speaker 1: is to first thing, do not use altimatums. Do not

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Speaker 1: say that if we don't do this, then this will happen.

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Speaker 1: Do not use therapy as a threat. UM. I understand

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Speaker 1: that that can that can kind of get some of

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Speaker 1: your partners in the room, but that's a really really

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Speaker 1: rocky way to start um therapy with them really not

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Speaker 1: kind of buying into the work. But I would recommend

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Speaker 1: speaking from the place of of what you are feeling,

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Speaker 1: so use of I statements. I'm always talking about that

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Speaker 1: with my couples. I am feeling worried. I'm really scared

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Speaker 1: that this is not gonna last, and I really really

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Speaker 1: care about you, this relationship, us, our family. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm starting to get more and more nervous that we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna be able to figure this out, and I

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Speaker 1: really just want some other eyes on us to help

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Speaker 1: us through these things. UM So, really speaking from what's

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Speaker 1: happening for you internally versus the blaming or the shaming

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Speaker 1: or you did this, so now we gotta go to therapy.

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Speaker 1: UM Those kind of back backwards ways to get somebody

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Speaker 1: into therapy can also make a therapy a little bit

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Speaker 1: more contentious at the beginning. UM. So, I always always

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Speaker 1: recommend speak from your heart. And let your partner know that, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I actually want to go because I really like this.

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Speaker 1: I really like you, I really love you, and I

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Speaker 1: want this to continue. But there's some things that we're

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Speaker 1: just not able to get right, and I really think

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Speaker 1: somebody else could help us and be able to wash

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Speaker 1: that over your partner. Yeah, those sound like some really

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Speaker 1: amazing tips. I mean, even listening to you, Ayanna, I

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Speaker 1: felt even more Eddy. So I feel like, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: if you can talk with your partner about um, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the concerns that you have, as opposed to blaming them,

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Speaker 1: I think that they definitely will try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least give you a little bit more of a

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Speaker 1: chance that they might buy into it exactly. Just anything

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Speaker 1: we can do to kind of set up less defensiveness,

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Speaker 1: because therapy is hard enough as it is. A couples

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Speaker 1: therapy is hard enough as it is, so we really

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Speaker 1: don't want it to begin again with that level of contention.

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Speaker 1: It happens, though sometimes it does feel as though one

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Speaker 1: partner is dragged in, so the therapist has to do

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Speaker 1: a lot more work to create some buy in, particularly

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Speaker 1: when I work with couples of color. But again that's

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Speaker 1: our role. Versus waterways in which you two are able

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Speaker 1: to kind of communicate and connect just to get you

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Speaker 1: into the room. We'll figure it out once you get

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Speaker 1: in here. Right, right. So you mentioned that you UM

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Speaker 1: specialize in emotionally focused therapy. Can you tell us more

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Speaker 1: about what that is and what that looks like with couples. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I love it so much, so much, so much. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I really I'm I'm sad and even a little bit

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Speaker 1: salty that that I wasn't taked this more in my

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Speaker 1: training in graduate school because it's been the theory that

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Speaker 1: I've gravitated towards immediately as soon as I went to

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Speaker 1: my first training on it. So, Emotionally focused therapy UM

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Speaker 1: was developed as a theory in the eighties that really

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Speaker 1: focuses on attachment UM and essentially, when we're talking about couples,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about your attachment styles and how this shows

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Speaker 1: up in a couple. UM. Depending on how secure you

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Speaker 1: feel in your relationship or how insecure you feel in

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Speaker 1: your relationship, your emotions show up, and then you react

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Speaker 1: to things based on what your emotions are telling you. UM.

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Speaker 1: So e f T particularly uses emotions as data. Our

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Speaker 1: emotions tell a story It tells us what's going on,

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Speaker 1: It tells us what we're hurt by, it tells us

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Speaker 1: what we like, It tells us kind of what allows

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Speaker 1: us to feel connected. And the therapy really focuses on

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Speaker 1: getting down to the basics of what your emotional response

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Speaker 1: is when something comes up. Um. So it's really really

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Speaker 1: cool when I'm in the office and I can really

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Speaker 1: kind of pick up on queues um that partners give

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Speaker 1: each other, and then it sends them off from this

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Speaker 1: whole tangent and the partner has no clue which just happened,

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Speaker 1: But I can see, oh, well, you rolled your eyes.

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Speaker 1: That's a cue, right, It sent your client's sent your

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Speaker 1: partner into kind of feeling whichever way, and now they're

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Speaker 1: responding to that. So emotions kind of really really show

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Speaker 1: up and manifest in these ways. And so E f

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Speaker 1: T is looking to use emotions to communicate on a

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Speaker 1: deeper level with each other versus just kind of surface

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Speaker 1: level stuff, which is what which is how a lot

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Speaker 1: of couples engage. Um. So it brings you down to

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Speaker 1: that primary emotion and gets the two creating connection with

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Speaker 1: each other from their deepest, darkest right. Kind of sometimes

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Speaker 1: scariest of emotions. UM. And with that vulnerability that creates

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Speaker 1: it leads to a lot of change and repair in couples.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're talking about like some really

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Speaker 1: deep level stuff. Yeah, And you know, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of times when we hear UM people talk about

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Speaker 1: couples are even thinking about going to a couple of therapy,

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Speaker 1: the main thing that comes up is communication, right, UM.

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Speaker 1: But it does feel like sometimes communication is a catch

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Speaker 1: all for some of this deeper level stuff that you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. I've always put communication in quotation marks because

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Speaker 1: it's not about that UM. Communication is usually kind of

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Speaker 1: a symptom of a larger thing, like how you are

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Speaker 1: talking about something. UM is the way in which you

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Speaker 1: have learned to express how you're feeling about something. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: once we kind of get down to the baby, we

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Speaker 1: kind of slice it as thin as we can. Then

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Speaker 1: you begin to communicate differently. You begin to talk to

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Speaker 1: your partner differently verbally and nonverbally, UM, to really communicate

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Speaker 1: what's happening for you. Right. But oftentimes a lot of

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Speaker 1: people don't even know the depths of what they're feeling.

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Speaker 1: They're just used to communicating in this way when I

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Speaker 1: get mad, I do this. You know, when I get sad,

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Speaker 1: I don't talk to you anymore, versus being able to communicate. Man,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that makes me really sad, like at

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Speaker 1: my core, and when I feel that way, this is

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Speaker 1: what's going on for me. Um. Again, it leads to

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Speaker 1: such a softening in your partner when they see essentially

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Speaker 1: what's going on behind the scenes of however it manifests UM.

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Speaker 1: And that's really really cool to see partners be able

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Speaker 1: to do that kind of work. You see the softening,

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Speaker 1: you see their body language change, you see their shoulders drop, Um,

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Speaker 1: they turned towards each other. It's really really great to

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Speaker 1: witness that. So this sounds like some powerful things you

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Speaker 1: have happening in your therapy office, but I know that

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Speaker 1: it is a lot of work to get to that place. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: what kinds of things are you doing with your couples

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Speaker 1: that allow them to get to the place where there

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Speaker 1: is this softening. So I would say that the first

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Speaker 1: thing we're looking at is um. Particularly in the e

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Speaker 1: f T is also a stage theory model, but we're

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Speaker 1: looking at the escalation first and foremost Oftentimes, when couples

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Speaker 1: come in they're not turning towards each other. They're coming

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Speaker 1: in because they turn away from each other. They're coming

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Speaker 1: in because they're distant, they're mad, UM, they don't feel loved,

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Speaker 1: you're cared for, um, they don't feel desired. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of the work that we're doing in the first stage,

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Speaker 1: the first few sessions, first few months of the therapy

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Speaker 1: is just bringing the hostility down because oftentimes there's also

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Speaker 1: anger and resent um and really you know, nasty words

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Speaker 1: and kind of really really poor communication that's more hostile

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Speaker 1: and abusive UM. So we can't do any work until

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Speaker 1: you two are de escalated. We can't do any work

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Speaker 1: until you can believe that, hey, there's something else going

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Speaker 1: on behind the scenes to really get two versus this

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Speaker 1: other person is the bad guy. One of the first

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Speaker 1: things I usually tell talk to couples about even when

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Speaker 1: they're coming in for the intake UM the assessment series

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Speaker 1: is no one person is to blame for any reason

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Speaker 1: that you guys are here. Now we're looking at an

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Speaker 1: interaction between you two. So it's not that you are

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Speaker 1: the identified issue or you are the identified issue. It's

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Speaker 1: about how you two are relating to each other based

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Speaker 1: on whatever it is that's going on, which also relates

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Speaker 1: to infidelity all these things. Oftentimes couples come in saying

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Speaker 1: they did the thing. So if you dr ables, just

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Speaker 1: fixed them will be all good. Just make them you know,

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Speaker 1: talk to me more, or just make them love me more,

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Speaker 1: or make them you know, stop cheating, then we're fine.

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Speaker 1: But there's a whole bunch of other things that are

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Speaker 1: under that UM. So first age, we're looking at the

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Speaker 1: de escalation, you know, UM, reducing or eliminating the hostility

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Speaker 1: that couples have towards each other, the resent um, the

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Speaker 1: contempt that they have towards each other, And then we

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Speaker 1: can do a deeper bit of work around understanding what's

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Speaker 1: going on under all that or behind the scenes. So

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Speaker 1: what are some strategies you used to help with the escalation?

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Speaker 1: So well, it's a lot of talking, a lot of

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Speaker 1: talking UM. So typically what we will do after we've

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Speaker 1: kind of made it through the assessment phase and I

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Speaker 1: get more of a sense of where you two are

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Speaker 1: as a couple, but I also get a lot of

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Speaker 1: history about what's going on UM or what has happened

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Speaker 1: to you in your childhood? Who are your relationship role models?

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Speaker 1: You know, what have you seen of attachment and love,

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Speaker 1: because that shows up a lot um in how you

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Speaker 1: are in relationship with people. We're really just looking at

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Speaker 1: examples of when you guys get to your worst places.

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Speaker 1: So what I'll say is, you know, in the last

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Speaker 1: few weeks, can name and an argument or a conflict

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Speaker 1: that we can just process today, like how connected are

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Speaker 1: you feeling to each other? What's leading to the disconnection?

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Speaker 1: So they might bring in an argument literally about the dishwasher.

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Speaker 1: When I say literally, it's because dishwasher comes up so

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Speaker 1: much in this office so much, right, So somebody might say,

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't load the dishwasher, so I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm doing all the work in the kitchen and

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Speaker 1: I don't feel helped by this person. I come home

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Speaker 1: and there's always dishes in the sink. As soon as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned dishes, I know we're not talking about dishes.

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Speaker 1: You think you're talking about dishes, but I know that

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Speaker 1: we're not um. So what I'll do is we call

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Speaker 1: it kind of unpacking. I'll unpack what's going on in

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Speaker 1: that whole scenario of the dishwasher with one partner. So

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Speaker 1: I'll say, hey, you came home and you said this,

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Speaker 1: What did that say to you? That you come home

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Speaker 1: and the dishes are not washed? Right? So partner A

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Speaker 1: might say, you know, literally, it says to me that

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Speaker 1: they don't care. They don't care what happens around here,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're just using me, and you know

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Speaker 1: they don't care about how the household runs. They just

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Speaker 1: they get to do whatever they do and go to

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Speaker 1: bed earlier while I'm cleaning the house. Um, as we

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Speaker 1: unpack that a little bit more, we get down to

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Speaker 1: that piece, I'll slow them down around the man, you

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Speaker 1: don't feel cared for. That's got to be really hard,

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Speaker 1: right to know that this person who you have dedicated

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Speaker 1: your life too doesn't care about you after all these years.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what that's like. Um. So we're doing what

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Speaker 1: we call it is kind of a heightening. We're heightening

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Speaker 1: their negative emotion, and essentially, the more and more that

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Speaker 1: is heightened, we want them to talk to their partner

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Speaker 1: from that heightened place, not just that you don't wash

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Speaker 1: the dishes. We actually want them to say things like, man,

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Speaker 1: I feel really alone when I come home and you

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Speaker 1: know these dishes are here. I feel like you don't

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Speaker 1: care about me. I feel like you know, we joined

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Speaker 1: this arrangement or kind of we joined into this marriage,

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Speaker 1: and we don't feel like a team. I don't feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm your partner. Once we get to that,

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Speaker 1: we have a whole different conversation, highly different conversation. And

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Speaker 1: essentially what we're doing is we're going back and forth

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Speaker 1: with partners doing that. The more and more and more

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Speaker 1: they do that in the office, is the more and

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Speaker 1: more they can do that outside and actually in their

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Speaker 1: marriage or in their relationship. UM, and it changes the

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Speaker 1: nature of how they talk to each other. Okay, and

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Speaker 1: so what is the next step after de escalation? So

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Speaker 1: the next step after de escalation is kind of doing

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of that UM because what we

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Speaker 1: call it is where we're we're um, we're mapping kind

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Speaker 1: of who how people interact. So when I was mentioning

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Speaker 1: kind of pursuer and distancer, I mean I always give

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Speaker 1: my clients as an example. So so typically we'll have

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Speaker 1: a pursuing a distances. So the pursuer in the relationship

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Speaker 1: is the one who typically wants things to be figured

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Speaker 1: out quickly, right. They can't kind of sit with conflict

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Speaker 1: for very long. They just want to know that Hey,

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Speaker 1: you care about them, Let's talk about this now. Let's

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Speaker 1: not wait till tonight, Let's not go to bed angry,

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Speaker 1: Let's do this now. Um. And oftentimes we'll have the

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Speaker 1: other partner who is a withdraw who avoid stuff. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it now. It makes me

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Speaker 1: too anxious. I get too sad, I get too worried.

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Speaker 1: So essentially what develops is this circular cycle, which we

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Speaker 1: call the chase. Right, So the pursuer is trying to

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Speaker 1: get to the distancer right the withdraw, and the withdraws

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Speaker 1: running away the whole time, right, so that the pursuer

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Speaker 1: does more of the pursuing, like, no, you gotta talk

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Speaker 1: to me now, we gotta figure this out, and though

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Speaker 1: the drawers going away. So what we're doing is we're

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what where their role is kind

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Speaker 1: of in this quote unquote dance. And once people know

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Speaker 1: what their interaction styles are, it really really changes, um,

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Speaker 1: how they communicate with each other, not even just in

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Speaker 1: their relationship, but just in general with people because they recognize,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, because when you do that, and when you

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Speaker 1: yell at me and when you criticize me, I don't

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Speaker 1: like it. So I go into the living room or

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Speaker 1: I go to bed earlier, something like that, and the

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Speaker 1: pursuer might be able to say, when you withdraw and

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Speaker 1: you go and watch TV for hours, I feel so unloved. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: once we get to those kind of primary emotions, the unloved,

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Speaker 1: the rejected, the sad, the scared, the fearful, we have

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Speaker 1: them do a lot of communicating from that stage, right, so,

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Speaker 1: now things are de escalated, We've got a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of other emotions in their deeper emotions. Now we're using

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Speaker 1: those words as part of their language. Right. So now

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Speaker 1: when I hear them say something, Oh, you said sad,

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Speaker 1: can you talk to your partner from the the place

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Speaker 1: that gets you really really sad? And then once you're

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Speaker 1: able to communicate like that, we usually see that softening

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Speaker 1: and that change in terms of how they're able to

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Speaker 1: view themselves but also how they're able to view their partner.

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Speaker 1: All right, and then what is that next stage? How

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Speaker 1: many stages are there? There's three basic stages. That's that's

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Speaker 1: actually all um within a same stage, because the second

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Speaker 1: stage actually do the the escalation, and partners kind of

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Speaker 1: know what their dances in the cycle. The second stage,

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Speaker 1: we might take some steps back to really incorporate. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there there are ways in which you guys are interacting

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Speaker 1: in this relationship that predated this relationship. There are things

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Speaker 1: that have happened in your childhood. There are messages that

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Speaker 1: you've received about your love worthiness that really show up

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Speaker 1: here in your in your insecurity. So we're wanting to

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Speaker 1: kind of pull more UM from these kind of models

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Speaker 1: of self you know that you have. So what is

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Speaker 1: this kind of tapping into for you? What is this

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Speaker 1: activating so UM? For example, like say I have a client,

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Speaker 1: say I have a partner in a couple who has

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Speaker 1: experienced some level of trauma. UM. I might use something

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Speaker 1: that's coming up now to say, man, and you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm envisioning you know, is that time when you

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Speaker 1: didn't feel loved when you were fifteen? Is that what's

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Speaker 1: coming up for you right now? And they're able to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what it reminds me of. And then we

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Speaker 1: get to unpack a whole new level of work because

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Speaker 1: we're now attaching it to things UM that are related

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Speaker 1: to way before the partner came around UM. And what's

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Speaker 1: really great about those moments that Oftentimes, when I'm working

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Speaker 1: with one partner, the other partner really gets to see

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Speaker 1: this person talking a whole new way and they just

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Speaker 1: sit back and they're just listening because they love it.

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Speaker 1: They're just like, you don't talk to me like this,

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Speaker 1: so please keep talking whatever it is, right, if it's

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Speaker 1: stuff that's really difficult for them to hear, they're just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, you are talking like this is good

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Speaker 1: stuff regardless. Um. So again, it's really also important for

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Speaker 1: for the partner to be able to kind of witness

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Speaker 1: their other partner's transformation, because what happens outside of the

401
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Speaker 1: room is that you guys are just going back and

402
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Speaker 1: forth so fast that you don't know what's happening. You're

403
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Speaker 1: just lining up your defense. You're just lining up the

404
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Speaker 1: next thing to say, the next you know, rebuttal, the

405
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: next thing that says I am right, you are wrong,

406
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Speaker 1: versus just sitting and you have to listen to your

407
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Speaker 1: partner when you're in this space. Sometimes I am a referee.

408
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Speaker 1: I got the time out, I got the whistles, I

409
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Speaker 1: got all the stuff. But um, it really forces you

410
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Speaker 1: to sit and listen to where your partner is coming

411
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Speaker 1: from and really see them, or see their hurt or

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Speaker 1: see their pain. Um at Oftentimes that also creates a

413
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Speaker 1: different level of connection. You see their humanness. You don't

414
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Speaker 1: see this monster who's yelling at you. You see your

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Speaker 1: husband and you haven't really seen him for a long time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it does sound like a lot of it, or

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Speaker 1: at least some parts of it could be almost like

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Speaker 1: you're doing individual therapy just with a witnesses often oftentimes

419
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Speaker 1: feel like that. But it's really really great to have

420
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Speaker 1: the partner bear witness to you tapping into these other

421
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Speaker 1: parts of yourself, right, Okay, So I thought it would

422
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Speaker 1: be fun, um in a good way to kind of

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Speaker 1: illustrate the work that you do and what that looks

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Speaker 1: like in real life. If we talked about a couple

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Speaker 1: of our favorite TV couples, yes, and some of the

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Speaker 1: issues that they have, and what it might look like

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Speaker 1: if they were your clients. Okay, all right, so let's

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Speaker 1: let's start with one UM that is kind of probably

429
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 1: top of mind for a lot of people, um from insecure.

430
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 1: Of course, we've all heard and read and listened to

431
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: tons of stuff about people dissecting insecure. UM, so I'm

432
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: curious to hear your take on um the dynamic between

433
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: Issa and Lawrence, and like the issues with them and

434
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: what they might look like if you work with them.

435
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: Whoof I have dissected them so many times I wish

436
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: when I say I wish they would show up on

437
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: my couch, please please um And again depending on the

438
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: stage of so, so if we're looking at kind of

439
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: season one versus kind of season two, but say we're

440
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 1: just kind of putting everything together and they are not

441
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: broken up, they are working towards reconciliation of stuff. Essentially,

442
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: what we're dealing with and what E. F T goes

443
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: to first is it's a hot potato in the room

444
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: when there's infidelity, when one partner has cheated on both

445
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: parts are cheating, and we have to attack that piece

446
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: because if we don't attack that and unpack that, it's

447
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: not safe to go any other direction. Really, we really

448
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: really have to figure out what's going there. Um. So

449
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: essentially what also comes up is that as a therapist,

450
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: I also have to rule out things that make the

451
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: therapy unsafe for a couple, and a lot of people

452
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: don't think about these things, but there are um reasons

453
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: for couples to not seek therapy at this time a

454
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 1: reason that they're not a good fit. Um So, one

455
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: of the main ones is an active affair. If there's

456
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: one partner having an active affair, it's not emotionally safe

457
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: for the partners to be in therapy because essentially e

458
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: f T is about creating connection. So I can't have

459
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: a space where one partner is doing the work to

460
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: get more connected and this other partner has one foot

461
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 1: out of the door. Um So in the assessment process,

462
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing a full assessment of affairs. If there's something

463
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: active when it ended that you've ended contact, um that

464
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: is a non negotiable. There cannot be an active affair

465
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: while you engage in this work and tells me that

466
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 1: you're not ready to do this. Um So, infidelity would

467
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: be the first thing that we would um look at

468
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: and I would need to know um that Issa was

469
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: what's going on with Daniel was? Where? Where? Where's that?

470
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: When's the last time you talked to him? Have you

471
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: completely cut off contact? Have you had the conversation? It

472
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: kind of really really sets those boundaries. The way he's

473
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: is acting now obviously not so they actually wouldn't be

474
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: a good best fit because she is still dealing with

475
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: Daniel UM. But if she were able to say, no,

476
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm not dealing with him, I have set the boundaries

477
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: and I really want to work on my relationship with

478
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: UM Lawrence, then we're clear to go there. UM. The

479
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: other part that also feels important to address, which is

480
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: another reason that that couples kind of come into therapy,

481
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: is when one partner might be struggling with the mental

482
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: health issue UM, which I also didn't notice a lot

483
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: of people talking about, but Lawrence was very clearly depressed,

484
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: particularly in season one UM. So that would also need

485
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: to be something that we are addressing in terms of

486
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: what signal or kind of what sign does that send

487
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: Issa when Lawrence is not able right to be the

488
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: best partner to her right. So a scenario that we

489
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 1: could unpack, say they says Asasa's birthday was last week

490
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: and they come in session and she is just so

491
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: upset he we didn't even do any much for my birthday.

492
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: I got home and he was on the couch, you know,

493
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: shirtless with some you know, sweatpants on and gave me

494
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: this crusty, dusty kiss, and I just didn't feel like

495
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: he cared about me, like it is my birthday. Um.

496
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: So we would have to unpack a lot of that

497
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: in terms of what that said to Issa, that she

498
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: comes home after year four or five in this relationship

499
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: and she doesn't feel cared about right, Um, she doesn't

500
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: feel valued, she doesn't feel prioritized. Um. And it kind

501
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: of taps into how she's been feeling in the relationship

502
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: the whole time. But we'd really look at that particular scenario,

503
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: like what do you feel when you got home and

504
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: you saw him sitting on the couch? What did that

505
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: say to you? You know? And she might say something

506
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: like he forgot it. Might she might say something like

507
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm last on his list. Um. So

508
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: we're looking at at key phrases like that because when

509
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: I come back and talk to her about this UM scenario,

510
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep saying things to her like that, like, man,

511
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: that's gotta be really really sad to feel like this

512
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: person you have, you know, been with for five years,

513
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: that's your last on his list. Gosh, my heart breaks

514
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: for you. Can you tell me what that's like for you?

515
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: And I'm just doing that over and over and over again. Um.

516
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: And then when he is able to get to a

517
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: point of talking about not feeling cared, for, not feeling loved,

518
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: not feeling valued, will have her talk to Lawrence from

519
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: that place, because as you see in the episode, she's

520
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: not saying any of that to him. She's just annoyed

521
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: with him. Her body language is all cold, like she's

522
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: rolling her eyes. That's what he sees, and he's probably

523
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: very scared of that, so he doesn't really know what

524
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: to do with it. But if she's able to say, man,

525
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: I don't feel valued, we turn it to um Lawrence

526
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: and have her say those things to him. UM. And ideally,

527
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: ideally Lawrence would be able to say, that was never

528
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: my intention. I've just been feeling so blah blah blah

529
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: blah blah, and I understand that you feel this way,

530
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,239
Speaker 1: and I know that it's not okay, UM, and I

531
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: want to do better. I never want you to feel

532
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: like I don't care about you. You are the top

533
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: of my list. I'm doing this for us like a

534
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: Dwayne way A moment, right um. And then after that

535
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: we would have her then respond to him saying that,

536
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: because essentially we want her to take the risk right

537
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: to get really really vulnerable with him, right share how

538
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: she feels. We want him to be able to catch

539
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: it and hold her in that, but we then want

540
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 1: her to have this corrective experience and says, oh, man,

541
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: maybe he is there. I couldn't tell, but in talking

542
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: to him like this, oh maybe he does love me.

543
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: Maybe he does care about me. Um. And that that's

544
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: essentially what we're doing over and over and over again, UM,

545
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: to help repair the couple. All right, good stuff. So

546
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: our second couple, Bow Injury from Blackish the whole other dynamics. Um. Sorry,

547
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean I love that show, while it while it

548
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: kind of hits up against some strings because Dre has

549
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: some ways in which he talks to Bow and talk

550
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: to these children that I can't really get down with. Um.

551
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 1: You know what I can see them coming in with

552
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: is saying, hey, we don't communicate. Well I can see

553
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: that being a clear, clear thing. Nothing around infidelity, UM,

554
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: nothing about around you know, deeper attachment injuries. Um. But

555
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: just you know, we get this way and he starts

556
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: talking like this, I just don't feel connected to him

557
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: or Another thing that can come up with them is

558
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: that you know, we're being impacted because Drey's family lives

559
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: here and I don't really know if I can deal

560
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: with that anymore. Um. So, say Bo were to come

561
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: in talking about you know, how Drey's mom is there

562
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: Andrey's dad is there, and it really gets in the

563
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: way of their communication, and um, she feels like Dre

564
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't understand her anymore. Um again, we'd go the

565
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: we'd go the same direction with Bo in terms of

566
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: you know what, tell me what's that's what that's like

567
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: to not feel understood by your partner of such and

568
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: such years and after how many I think they got

569
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: like five kids? Now how many children? Right? Um? And

570
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: we really want to validate and empathize with whatever the

571
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: person is feeling. It's not on the therapist to say

572
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be feeling like that. Don't you understand that

573
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: they didn't mean that, so you shouldn't be No, no, no no,

574
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: it's about just validating man. Of course you would feel

575
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: like that. Of course, after all these years, when he

576
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: comes home and says that, you know, you need to

577
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: be working more so that you guys can make some

578
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: more money, of course that hurts. It makes complete sense. Um.

579
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: So we're doing a lot of that with both couples.

580
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: And then essentially what she might say is, yeah, I

581
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: try to have these conversations with him, and he just

582
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: doesn't get it. He's not listening to me. He's going

583
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: off on some rant about racism and sexism and all

584
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: this stuff, and I just feel like I can't get

585
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: through to him. He does not listen to me. Um,

586
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: So what will unpack is that must feel really hard

587
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: to not feel listened to, right, That must feel really sad.

588
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: It must feel really isolating, really lonely. We really go

589
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: into that with her until she's really really feeling it.

590
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: You can see it in her eyes. She might be crying. Um,

591
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: she might not be able to talk, she might feel

592
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: more choked up. And that's exactly the place that I

593
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: want to talk to her talk. I want her to

594
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: talk to Dre from, not the place of you need

595
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: to listen to me, and I don't want to talk

596
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: to you anymore because you don't listen. I want Dre

597
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: to see her and see how much pain that she's

598
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: in and to hear her speak from that tone of voice,

599
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: right from that kind of like it's all the way

600
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: in your gut, you feel it all the way down there.

601
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: That's exactly where we want couples communicating from, because that's

602
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: where people feel most connected, when it feels real, when

603
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: it feels raw. Um, that's where the connection is. So

604
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: once she's able to communicate to Dre from that place, ideally,

605
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: ideally Dre would be able to hold that to kind

606
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: of understand it, UM, to say, you know, I never

607
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: meant for you to feel that way. I was just

608
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: thinking this, UM, and I wish I could be better

609
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: for you, UM. And you know, maybe I do need

610
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: to revisit what's going on with my parents being in

611
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: the home, and I don't want that to get in

612
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: the way because you are so valuable to me. UM.

613
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: And then Bo would come back and say, now, that

614
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: felt really good. It felt like he listened to me.

615
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: It felt like he heard me. It felt like he

616
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: loves me. UM. And then again, we just do that

617
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: a number of times. Just couples have a ton of

618
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: examples every week that they come in with, so we

619
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: usually just kind of pick one or two things and

620
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: we're just doing the same kind of themes UM over

621
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: and over again. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad you mentioned

622
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: the family piece because that felt particularly relevant around the

623
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: recent episode UM related to postpartum depression for her and

624
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: how you know the mother in law got really involved

625
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: with it, absolutely, right, So I can see a couple

626
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: coming in like, well, she just kicked my mom out, right,

627
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: So now we have a whole another thing to work with, right,

628
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: because now there's other people involved in this, um but

629
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: his's not his being protective of his you know, family

630
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: of origin, his mom as well as his family of creation.

631
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: What do I do in this place? So actually, in

632
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: in that moment, if I were to start with Dre,

633
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 1: you can start with any any partner in a session,

634
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: but Sam, I want to start with that. What we

635
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: would really unpack is maybe how stuck he feels in

636
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: some of these moments, Like sometimes I don't really know

637
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: what to do. I love these women or these people

638
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: in my life so much, and it's it's really important

639
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: for me to have my family there for whatever reason, right,

640
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: And sometimes I just feel stuck. So I just don't

641
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: do anything. I just let them deal with it. I

642
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: just it's I feel so helpless. Um, I don't want

643
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: to get in the middle of it. I'm so worried

644
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: about people being mad at me and me kind of

645
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: messing up because I want to be the man in

646
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: the house. All these different models can come up. You

647
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: really get to see what it taps into for people

648
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: that you would never think, like I will have partners

649
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: while I'm unpacking something with a partner just being awe

650
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: like what, I had no clue you were scared. I

651
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: had absolutely no clue this made you sad. I just

652
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: thought you were angry and slamming doors. I had no

653
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 1: clue that when you slam the door you would sit

654
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: on the bed and cry. Right, And they would have

655
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: no clue because after that point happens outside. When they're

656
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: at home, they're not talking to each other. Um So

657
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: it really gets them to like slow down in some

658
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: of those moments. And what I've noticed that individuals also

659
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: learned a lot more about themselves. They're like, man, I

660
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: didn't think I was sad, but I think that is it.

661
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: I didn't think that I was scared, but I think

662
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: I was really scared to say something to her because

663
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: I thought that she might reject what I was saying.

664
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Um So, a lot of times, the individual also builds

665
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: a lot of insight about what's going on with them

666
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: in ways in which they didn't know before. Got it

667
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: all right? One more for you, and this is a

668
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: throwback couple so Whitley and Dewayne from a different world really,

669
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: and they had so much stuff, so much stuff. Actually,

670
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: it was it's on It's on repeat something, it's it's syndicated.

671
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: So I was actually was watching the last weeks while

672
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: they were on my mind. But it was the It

673
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: was an episode where Dwyane had gone to I think

674
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: was Japan for the summer stuff, and he brought back

675
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: this whole girlfriend, like the whole entire person. Willie did not.

676
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: She was ready to like confess her love to him

677
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: and like ready to be with him. And here's this

678
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: other person involved. As we had talked about a little

679
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: bit with Um, the infidelity from before, if there is

680
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: some kind of attachment elsewhere, we really have to process

681
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: what that looks like between the two of them. I

682
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: do think that if Whitley and Dwyane were Duane Wane

683
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: were gotten a couple of therapy. After a few sessions,

684
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: she ken knew I need to not call her something

685
00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: that Whitney called her kennew would um Duyanne could have realized, Um,

686
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: what was kind of going on there and that he

687
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: really did want to be with Whitley. But after that,

688
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: we've now got this whole repair process of Okay, we

689
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: have both been in love with somebody else. It was

690
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: Keynow and I think Whitley had Byron. She was go

691
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: marry Byron. Right, So at that juncture, we really got

692
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: to look at, Okay, what are the things about our

693
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: relationship that we love and that we like, and what

694
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: are the things that we want to work on? Um

695
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: So with them, once the people have quote unquote you know,

696
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: gotten rid of gotten gotten rid of sounds terrible, but

697
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, moved away from other love interests, what we

698
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: can also do is sessions called like affirming sessions. So

699
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people think that couples therapy is just

700
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: about coming in and ragging on the other partner. This

701
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: is terrible, This is terrible. You do this. I hate this.

702
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: We'll have these moments in session where I just want

703
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: to hear what's going well between you two and to

704
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: do the same kind of work right that. Hey, when

705
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: you wash the dishes and clean up, I feel like

706
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: this is a partnership. I feel like we are really

707
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: on the same team and I can relax in myself.

708
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: Um or you know when I come home and you

709
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,479
Speaker 1: know you flirt with me, that makes me feel desirable, right,

710
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: And for a long time I struggle with body image,

711
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 1: and it's really really important for me to feel desired

712
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: by you. So those things tell me those things are

713
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: really really like when you do that, it just it

714
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: reaffirms for couples that, hey, there are some things that

715
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: we are doing well. Um, and sometimes that's really not

716
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,959
Speaker 1: Oftentimes it's really important to remind couples, hey, you're also

717
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: here because there's stuff that you do well. It's not

718
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: gloss over that stuff because things feel so bad right now. Um.

719
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: So I might do some more um affirmations with Dwayne

720
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: and Whitley because they do a lot of stuff well,

721
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: the way in which they get along, their banter um,

722
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: the way in which they support each other when one

723
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: person is going through stuff like when you know, Dwayne,

724
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 1: Wayne lost his job. We'll do a lot of affirming

725
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: work in those moments, right. What's helpful that Whitley does

726
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: in these moments where you are feeling like you can't

727
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: contribute to your marriage, right, And he'll say something like,

728
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: you know what, Whitley was willing to give up her

729
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: fur coats. I know she's lying, but like that's a

730
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: big deal for me. Like, so we're looking at stuff

731
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: like that as well to kind of so you can

732
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: remind the partners individually you're not messing everything up, because

733
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: that gets really really defeating versus man. There are these

734
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: glimpses where that love shows up. Let's look at how

735
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: to replicate those things nice. So all of these things

736
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: that you're talking about, Ayanna, definitely does not sound like

737
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: something that is wrapped up in like three sessions. Um So,

738
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: is there like a standard time or like, you know,

739
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: like what might this look like? How long would a

740
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: couple maybe be in therapy to kind of work through

741
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: some of this stuff? You know? I wish there was

742
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: an easy answer to that. It really depends on what

743
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: couples are coming in with. Um I will have couples

744
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: come in and say, okay, you know, in six sessions,

745
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: but I end up we should be good to go

746
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: byeen and I'm like, listen, I wish I was that good.

747
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: But maybe no, this is not that, um So, it

748
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: because it deter It depends on what couples are coming

749
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: in with. So there's a couple who's experiencing or has

750
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: had some history of trauma, typically the therapy is going

751
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: to take longer, right, we have to we have to

752
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: be really really mindful of triggering clients with different things. UM.

753
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: If there's been a history of violence UM in the relationship,

754
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: we gotta go a lot slower, a lot lot so

755
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: because we need both partners to be safe physically safe

756
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: and emotionally safe while we do this work. Again, if

757
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: there's been an affair, things are going to take longer.

758
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: We've got some unpacking of the stuff to do before

759
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: we can kind of get to UM the stages of

760
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: you being able to kind of repair and kind of reconnect. So,

761
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, while e F t UM emotionally focused therapy

762
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: is UM kind of towered, kind of promoted as a

763
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: short term therapy, there are more clients coming in who

764
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: are experiencing trauma. So just by nature of that, the

765
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: work could look like six weeks to six years UM.

766
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: It really depends. But once you're in the work and

767
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: you really see the value in it, couples are much

768
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: less worried about time. Couples kind of come in with

769
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: their stuff and have their stories to tell and have

770
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: their things to kind of process, and they're less concerned about, oh,

771
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: we have been here for this many years, this should

772
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: have been done by now because they're getting a benefit

773
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: from it. Are they're getting a benefit. They feel closer,

774
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: they feel like they know each other more, they feel

775
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: like they know them sells more, so they do less

776
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: tracking of that. But at the beginning the tracking shows

777
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: up like, hey, okay, a few weeks of this and

778
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: we should be good to go. And it's never. It's

779
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: never that way because people are humans, right, And if

780
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: you're coming in after you've been married for twenty years,

781
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: we might have a lot to talk about, right probably probably, Yeah,

782
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: we had a lot of things to going to say again.

783
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 1: So but the only reasons in which couples therapy actually

784
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't recommend it's starting essentially again, if there's an active

785
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: affair UM, if there is abuse UM in the relationship.

786
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: I really appreciated your podcast UM about the six six

787
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: types of abuse UM in a relationship. If any of

788
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: those are are present, pervasive, and or persistent, we've really

789
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: got to look at that those things can't be the case.

790
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: So I recommend them doing individual work to figure that

791
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: stuff out before they enter couple's work UM, because it

792
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: activates a lot of those abuse cycles, which puts people

793
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: in danger situations UM as well as addiction. Addiction is UM. Again,

794
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: if there's an active addiction, it's usually not the best

795
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: time for a couple to be in therapy. Although e

796
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: f T is really really leading the way on UM

797
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: creating more spaces where couples can process their addiction. There's

798
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of new research UM that's coming out

799
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: about that. So I'm really looking forward to what's coming

800
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: up with the f T and addiction UM. In the

801
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: recent news and how partners who are recovering from any

802
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: kind of substance use or gambling or any kind of addiction, UM,

803
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: they found that couples therapy is actually very healing to

804
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: the individual with the addiction UM. So's there's a lot,

805
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: a lot of cool research coming out with the f T.

806
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: So I'm just I'm I'm pumped, really really Yeah, you're

807
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: very clearly excited about all what's great, right, Like when

808
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: you really love what you do, then that shows up

809
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: in the work you do with your clients. Yeah. And

810
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, I've always found couple of therapy to be

811
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: meaningful and people typically kind of isolated to like Maritor,

812
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: it's just about the couple, but we're also dealing with

813
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, this is a family dynamic here their parents

814
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: and you know the ways in which people respond and

815
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: a couple and really kind of heal themselves within that

816
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: that lasts for generations. Right now, you have a new

817
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: way of how you're interacting with people who you love,

818
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: which shows up in parenting, which shows up at work,

819
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: shows up with your friend, shows up in all these

820
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: other relationships. So it's not really isolated to the couple,

821
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: which is why I like how e f T is

822
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: a much more transformative process versus some other UM a

823
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: couple of therapies. You see how generalized the impact is

824
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: all across the board, And I find that also very important,

825
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: with more more so important with UM couples of color

826
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: because of all the messages that we've received about you know,

827
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: not being worthy of love and not being able to

828
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: do it in statistics show single and infidelity and all

829
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: the stuff to be able to repair that. It actually

830
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: really can offset generations right of love and how that

831
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: looks in families. So it's a much bigger deal for

832
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: me than the relationship, if that makes sense, right. So

833
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: we are really talking about when we hear hashtag black love,

834
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: some of the f T stuff can really be helped

835
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: in promoting this absolutely absolutely. So what are some of

836
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: your favorite resources for couples? I ana UM so number

837
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: one off the bat UM when I'm talking to couples

838
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: and even when I'm talking to individuals about things that

839
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: are going on in their relationships. UM. Sue Johnson, who

840
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: is the she's the woman behind E F T. She

841
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: has this book called Hold Me Tight. So it's a

842
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: wildly popular book, and it teaches couples how to have

843
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: difficult conversations. And essentially that's what therapy is. It's about

844
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: learning how to have difficult conversations, learning the language for it,

845
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: but also learning the vulnerabilities within it. UM and couples,

846
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: whether they're in therapy or not, it's been a really,

847
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: really great resource. Oftentimes I have couples read it together.

848
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: They'll read the chapters together and just really kind of

849
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: process what comes up for them UM, and then they'll

850
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: come back and talk about it. It's really really UM.

851
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: It's a really great resource that doesn't involve doesn't have

852
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: to involve therapy UM. But the number of the other

853
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: reasons are what apps you recommend is finding a couple's

854
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: therapist UM, and you can find a couple of therapists

855
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: on psychology today. Google is great. You can just type

856
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: in couples therapists and your zip code and you get

857
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: a whole list of stuff that's on psychology today or not. UM.

858
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: So those always resources that I give. UM. Sue Johnson

859
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: also has another book called Love Sense that I recommend

860
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: for couples just to kind of wash wash over them

861
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: more ways in which they can talk about what they're

862
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: experiencing of their partner. Um. There's another popular couples theorists

863
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: named John Gottman, and he works with his wife. He's

864
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: got this book called Seven seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. UM.

865
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: So that can be a very good, just more so

866
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: informational book for couples. It doesn't really get into the

867
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: depths of stuff, but just to kind of highlight, Okay,

868
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: are these principles that actually fit us? Because oftentimes what

869
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: couples come in with is that they are basing their

870
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 1: relationship off of some other relationship that they've seen, either media, family,

871
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: whichever it is, versus couples deciding what their own principles

872
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: are and what their own agreements are with each other

873
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: and for each other. UM. So that's always really really

874
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: important UM, and I always also always recommend Five Love

875
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: Languages by Chapman. UH. It teaches you the different styles

876
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: of what you have learned to love UM and how

877
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: to make sense of that when that kind of shows

878
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: up with your partner. So it's a great book for

879
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: couples to read together. It creates a lot of insight

880
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: for couples. Sound like some great books and things to

881
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: check out. So can you tell us more about your practice,

882
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: Iana and any exciting news or anything that you want

883
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: to share? Sure? UM. So the name of my practice

884
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: is Ascension Behavioral Health UM. I opened up a little

885
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 1: over five years ago. I'm located in Decatur, Georgia, UM,

886
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: right near Emery University's campus on Claremont Road. So I've

887
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: been in practice and most of my focus and my

888
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: practices on UM people of color, women of color, and

889
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: couples of color. UM It's always been my main focus

890
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: throughout my training, but UM Atlanta has really really opened

891
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: opened my eyes to kind of what people are dealing

892
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: with and kind of struggling with. And UM it's become

893
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: it's it's it's my passion working with people who UM

894
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: look like me and also being able to come and

895
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: provide a resource, particularly in the black community. UM. While

896
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: we're still trying to really destigmatize therapy. UM. So I

897
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: do a lot of strength space work in my practice. UM.

898
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: Oftentimes clients and couples are coming in UM with depression, anxiety. UM.

899
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of Emory students and Georgia

900
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: State and Georgia Tech students UM who are struggling with

901
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, academic success, perfectionism, UM, financial distress, UM, just relationships,

902
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: relationship concerns. UM. I also want to mention that e

903
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: f T is not only something that's for married partners. UM.

904
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: I also see couples who are doing premarital I love.

905
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: When premarital couples come in, I'm like, yes, let's get

906
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: this stuff going now only too long. UM. So premarital therapy,

907
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: relationship therapy also call it relationship confusion. Sometimes people are

908
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: trying to figure out whether they want to continue in

909
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: a relationship. UM. So that's also fine to come to

910
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: therapy with. You don't have to figure that stuff out

911
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: UM on your own. UM. Oftentimes couples come in and

912
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: they're feeling fine, but they just want to kind of

913
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: learn more about each other. So it's kind of more

914
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: inside oriented come on in the door, right. It always

915
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: helps to learn more about what's coming up for you

916
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: and how that's coming across to other people. UM. So

917
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: I do a lot of that work individual and couples wise. UM.

918
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: In my practice, I do a lot of consultation and

919
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: speaking engagements UM, speaking with different organizations, speaking with different companies. UM.

920
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: I do a lot in the community to do to

921
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: destigma size UM mental health and mental illness UM, particularly

922
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: around black mental health UM and why it matters and

923
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: why it's a lifesaver, to really prioritize all aspects of health,

924
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: but to really really help people understand the benefits of

925
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: improving your mental health UM. Exciting news that's coming up.

926
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: I want people to look out for UM so essentially

927
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: that whole Me type book that I had mentioned before

928
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: or by Sue Johnson. There are resource I forgot to

929
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: mention this, sorry, There are resources for couples that are

930
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: also called hold Me Tight weekends. It's basically a relationship

931
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: retreat UM for a weekend UM where you'll go in

932
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: and you'll work with some facilitators who understand the f

933
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: T and the homie type model, and you're really getting

934
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: to kind of practice these kinds of conversations and really

935
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: doing a lot of repair work across a weekend. So

936
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: what I'm hoping to be able to offer beginning next

937
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: year with some of with one or some of my

938
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: colleagues is hold me tight weekends for black couples. Love it.

939
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: I got my hands in it. So I really, I

940
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: really think it's important again one one in terms of

941
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: the these stigmatic the stigmatization, but also recognizing that UM,

942
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: repairing relationships and repairing love relationships takes a full full

943
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: hold on a family, a generation, a community, UM in

944
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: terms of who we look up to and kind of

945
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: what our role models are. UM So, I really really

946
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: think it's important for for couples to get in there

947
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: and do is kind of work because it's so transformative

948
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: just from the inside out. You leave E F T

949
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: Therapy a totally different person. HM. That sounds amazing. I

950
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: gotta so where can people find out more about you

951
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 1: and where can they follow you on social media? Yes?

952
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: Um so my website is called Ascension Behavioral Health. Um

953
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: So that's www dot A s c E N s

954
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: i O N behavioral health dot com. All my website

955
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: of information about me. The work that I do UM.

956
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: I also have a mental health blog where I talk

957
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: a lot about Insecure. I kind of done some recaps

958
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: of some episodes UM, and i'll pro byde. I usually

959
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: kind of update information about different speaking engagements in the

960
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: community that are often free for the community to bring

961
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: yourself and your families to UM. So that's the best

962
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: way to kind of keep on top of UM what's

963
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: going on with me and to reach out to me UM.

964
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: My Facebook page, I do have a a business page

965
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: at Ascension Behavioral Health LLC UM, so I also kind

966
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: of post there and I'll post it and articles UM

967
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: about mental health related news and coverage UM, different things

968
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: that are going on in the media, different articles that

969
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: are coming up around UM, different mental health issues or

970
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: social issues that are coming up UM, as well as

971
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: any upcoming events that I'm either going to be participating

972
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: in or that are going on in the community or

973
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: just around. I'll post stuff from different cities when they're

974
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: having mental health conferences and stuff like that UM and

975
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: I can be reached if you wanted to email me

976
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: for any further questions about me, my practice, my work.

977
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: E F. T um at info at dr abrams A B.

978
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: H dot com. That's I n f O at d

979
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: R A B R A M s A b H

980
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: dot com. Perfect And of course we will include all

981
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: of that information in the show notes so people can

982
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: know how to reach out to you. Absolutely well, thank

983
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today, and I really

984
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Yes, this is so much fun. I love

985
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: talking about couple. Thank you for having me joy, thank you,

986
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. You're very welcome. Wow, now you

987
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: see why I was so excited to share this conversation

988
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: with you. Ayana has blessed you with some real knowledge

989
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: to help you take your relationships to the next level.

990
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: Make sure to be on the lookout for what she's

991
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: releasing in Tighten and check out some of the books

992
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: she suggested. You can find all of this information in

993
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com

994
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: slash Session thirty six. If you'd like to continue digging

995
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: into this conversation, come on over and join us in

996
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: the Thrive Tribe, which is the Facebook group for the podcast.

997
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: You can find it at Therapy for Black Girls dot

998
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: com slash tribe. If you're thinking that eighteen is the

999
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: time you will finally take to meet with the therapist.

1000
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out the therapist directory at Therapy

1001
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory to find a

1002
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: therapist in your area. If you're in Atlanta and interested

1003
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: in participating in one of the therapy groups I'll be

1004
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: offering in my practice. Had now to Therapy for Black

1005
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash shift s H I F T.

1006
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: Please continue sharing your thoughts about the episodes with us online.

1007
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: I always enjoy seeing you include us in your Instagram

1008
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: stories and on Twitter. Make sure you're using the hashtag

1009
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: tv G in session so that we can all follow

1010
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: along with the conversation. And please tell someone new about

1011
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: the podcast. Text them right now or whenever it's safe

1012
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: to do so and encourage them to listen. Share your

1013
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: favorite episode with them. Be sure you're following us all

1014
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: across social media so you don't miss any important announcements

1015
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: or helpful tips. You can find us on Twitter at

1016
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: Therapy for the Number four B Girls, and you can

1017
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls.

1018
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to continue in this conversation with you

1019
00:49:53,160 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: all real soon. Take it care, doctor, doctor, doctor,