WEBVTT - Encore: S02 Ep 7 - Emma’s Unavailable Men 0:01:09.359 --> 0:01:12.439 Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and 0:01:12.479 --> 0:01:13.599 we have a quick update. 0:01:13.839 --> 0:01:16.039 Many of you have told us that you get something 0:01:16.079 --> 0:01:18.439 new out of each episode when you listen to it 0:01:18.479 --> 0:01:21.719 again the second or third time. In fact, when we 0:01:21.839 --> 0:01:24.799 listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we 0:01:24.799 --> 0:01:25.439 didn't remember. 0:01:25.439 --> 0:01:28.079 We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so 0:01:28.199 --> 0:01:30.839 many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to 0:01:30.919 --> 0:01:33.439 absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping 0:01:33.559 --> 0:01:37.039 new episodes right now, we are offering you our most 0:01:37.079 --> 0:01:40.399 popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to 0:01:40.439 --> 0:01:41.519 gain value from them. 0:01:41.759 --> 0:01:45.319 We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy 0:01:45.359 --> 0:01:48.599 with new and exciting projects that we hope you will love. 0:01:48.639 --> 0:01:49.239 Just as much. 0:01:49.479 --> 0:01:52.679 I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked, 0:01:52.799 --> 0:01:55.159 which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts. 0:01:55.359 --> 0:01:58.159 And I have a new book coming out. It's called 0:01:58.559 --> 0:02:03.559 Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life, 0:02:03.759 --> 0:02:06.519 and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You 0:02:06.559 --> 0:02:08.759 can find out more about it on my website. 0:02:10.319 --> 0:02:13.519 You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile, 0:02:13.719 --> 0:02:16.639 we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:23.119 as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.439 I'm Lari Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should 0:02:26.479 --> 0:02:29.239 Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice 0:02:29.279 --> 0:02:30.359 column for The Atlantic. 0:02:30.599 --> 0:02:33.879 And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, 0:02:34.239 --> 0:02:36.719 and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. 0:02:37.119 --> 0:02:39.279 And this is Dear Therapists. 0:02:39.999 --> 0:02:42.759 Each week we invite you into a session so you 0:02:42.759 --> 0:02:45.159 can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help 0:02:45.239 --> 0:02:48.199 other people come to understand themselves better and make changes 0:02:48.199 --> 0:02:48.919 in their lives. 0:02:49.119 --> 0:02:53.719 So sit back and welcome to today's session. This week, 0:02:53.879 --> 0:02:56.399 a young woman tries to break her pattern of seeking 0:02:56.399 --> 0:02:58.879 out relationships with older, unavailable men. 0:02:59.159 --> 0:03:01.719 Yeah. I was dependent on him because of my dad 0:03:01.759 --> 0:03:05.799 and his illness and him dying, and so I came 0:03:05.839 --> 0:03:08.719 to rely on him. And I told him how much 0:03:08.719 --> 0:03:12.079 I cared about about him, and how I grew to 0:03:12.879 --> 0:03:15.519 love him. I guess I think I said first. 0:03:15.519 --> 0:03:19.079 A quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only. 0:03:19.399 --> 0:03:22.439 It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is 0:03:22.479 --> 0:03:25.919 not a substitute for professional healthcare advice. Diagnosis or treatment. 0:03:26.439 --> 0:03:29.199 Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, 0:03:29.279 --> 0:03:31.999 or other qualified health provider with any questions you may 0:03:31.999 --> 0:03:36.039 have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter, 0:03:36.079 --> 0:03:39.119 you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in partworn full, 0:03:39.399 --> 0:03:41.919 and we may edit it for length and clarity. In 0:03:41.959 --> 0:03:44.679 the sessions you'll hear. All names have been changed for 0:03:44.759 --> 0:03:47.399 the privacy of our fellow travelers. 0:03:50.319 --> 0:03:53.279 Hi Guy, Hi Laurie. So what do we have in 0:03:53.319 --> 0:03:55.159 a mailbox today? 0:03:55.239 --> 0:03:58.399 We have a letter about someone who is stuck in 0:03:58.439 --> 0:04:01.479 a relationship pattern that isn't serving her, and it goes 0:04:01.519 --> 0:04:06.879 like this, Dear therapists. I'm single. My career could not 0:04:06.959 --> 0:04:09.159 be going better, but I keep falling in love with 0:04:09.239 --> 0:04:11.479 me men who are at least twenty years older than me, 0:04:11.919 --> 0:04:15.319 sometimes married with kids. It's a painful cycle that I 0:04:15.399 --> 0:04:19.079 keep repeating, and I'm exhausted by it. It all started 0:04:19.079 --> 0:04:21.119 in my senior year of college, when I fell in 0:04:21.159 --> 0:04:23.839 love with my professor, who was over thirty years older 0:04:23.879 --> 0:04:26.599 than me. We'd get dinner every week and have the 0:04:26.639 --> 0:04:30.679 most intimate and intense conversations about anything and everything. Our 0:04:30.719 --> 0:04:34.759 conversations were raw and vulnerable and felt like an honest exchange. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.759 At the same time, my father was dying of cancer, 0:04:38.039 --> 0:04:41.519 and this older professor comforted me throughout the harrowing experience. 0:04:42.159 --> 0:04:46.079 At least he was single, so not totally unavailable. Now, 0:04:46.119 --> 0:04:49.079 three years later, I find myself in a similar predicament. 0:04:49.559 --> 0:04:52.039 I'm completely smitten with a man that I work with 0:04:52.079 --> 0:04:54.639 who is twenty years older than me and married with children. 0:04:55.119 --> 0:04:57.519 I feel seriously head over heels in love with him. 0:04:58.039 --> 0:05:00.479 Our relationship is different than the one with my professor. 0:05:00.959 --> 0:05:03.919 Instead of being vulnerable and intimate, it's light hearted and 0:05:03.999 --> 0:05:06.959 fueled by mutual admiration for the work we do. He 0:05:07.039 --> 0:05:10.559 flatters me, constantly, flirts consistently, and all I want to 0:05:10.559 --> 0:05:13.079 do is please him. I would do close to anything 0:05:13.119 --> 0:05:15.839 for him. I haven't felt this way since my professor 0:05:15.879 --> 0:05:18.679 three years ago. I can't stop thinking about him, and 0:05:18.759 --> 0:05:21.679 all my friends are, of course, sick of hearing about him, 0:05:21.799 --> 0:05:24.759 and sick of my typical trajectory towards self destruction with 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.639 older men. I tried to get over this guy by 0:05:27.679 --> 0:05:30.359 dating a different guy who was ten years older. After 0:05:30.399 --> 0:05:32.839 all of the loss and grief I've dealt with anyone 0:05:32.879 --> 0:05:35.039 remotely in my age range, doesn't seem to have the 0:05:35.039 --> 0:05:37.679 depth of understanding or feeling that I have, and I 0:05:37.719 --> 0:05:40.039 can't stand the thought of being with someone my age. 0:05:40.439 --> 0:05:42.559 I don't feel like I'm looking for a father figure, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.319 but the idea of an older man just feels comforting 0:05:45.359 --> 0:05:48.519 and alluring. How do I get over this man in particular, 0:05:48.799 --> 0:05:51.679 but even more importantly, how do I break this habit? 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:53.519 Thanks Emma. 0:05:54.679 --> 0:05:57.559 The research tells us that we tend to go for 0:05:58.079 --> 0:06:02.999 similar patterns of relationship, even if not with exactly similar people. 0:06:04.119 --> 0:06:07.919 It's actually quite common that when you lose a parent, 0:06:08.719 --> 0:06:12.079 you tend to to seek out someone to give you 0:06:12.119 --> 0:06:16.159 that kind of comfort that you've lost. And I've heard 0:06:16.159 --> 0:06:18.119 a lot of stories over the years of people who 0:06:18.159 --> 0:06:20.119 fell in love with people who are much older than 0:06:20.119 --> 0:06:24.639 them coincidentally around the time their parent passed away, And 0:06:24.679 --> 0:06:27.519 it can really form a certain pattern and a certain 0:06:27.599 --> 0:06:30.479 kind of imprinting, especially when you're young, that then sets 0:06:30.519 --> 0:06:33.359 you up to be into the older person, and that 0:06:33.439 --> 0:06:36.119 of course has its dynamics and complications of its own. 0:06:37.639 --> 0:06:39.079 I think you're right, guy, and I think there are 0:06:39.079 --> 0:06:41.799 two things going on here. One of course, is that 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.919 she started dating this much older professor around the same 0:06:44.959 --> 0:06:47.759 time that she was going through this huge loss with 0:06:47.879 --> 0:06:50.759 her father. But I think even for people who haven't 0:06:50.799 --> 0:06:54.399 gone through that loss, there is something that happens to people, 0:06:54.439 --> 0:06:57.399 which is that they tend to date someone that feels 0:06:57.559 --> 0:07:01.319 familiar to them in some way that hasn't been resolved 0:07:01.399 --> 0:07:04.799 in the past. So even if you haven't literally lost 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.479 a parent, if you had a parent who maybe wasn't 0:07:07.479 --> 0:07:11.319 available to you or or maybe didn't see you or 0:07:11.399 --> 0:07:13.999 understand you in a certain way, we tend to go 0:07:14.039 --> 0:07:17.999 after partners who will replicate that dynamic until we're aware 0:07:17.999 --> 0:07:21.519 of it. There's this saying we marry our unfinished business, 0:07:21.999 --> 0:07:24.919 and it sounds like Emma maybe has some unfinished business 0:07:25.119 --> 0:07:30.079 that is causing her to again and again go after 0:07:30.199 --> 0:07:33.239 men who are much older than her. And she has 0:07:33.279 --> 0:07:36.799 this idea that it's because she's experienced loss and grief 0:07:36.799 --> 0:07:39.319 that people her own age can't understand her. But I 0:07:39.319 --> 0:07:40.799 think it's more complicated than that. 0:07:41.719 --> 0:07:44.079 Yeah, I agree that it's more complicated than that, because 0:07:44.079 --> 0:07:47.679 she seems to dismiss younger men as being literally incapable 0:07:48.199 --> 0:07:50.479 of having the level of maturity that she does at 0:07:50.479 --> 0:07:52.919 twenty five, and by younger men, she's saying men who 0:07:52.919 --> 0:07:55.039 are even ten years older. And when you hear a 0:07:55.039 --> 0:07:58.639 blanket statement like that, it sounds like it's a little 0:07:58.639 --> 0:08:01.279 bit defensive, that there's an agenda there, even if she's 0:08:01.319 --> 0:08:03.679 not aware of it. So I'll be very curious to 0:08:04.079 --> 0:08:05.279 hear a little bit more from her. 0:08:05.799 --> 0:08:10.759 Yeah, let's go meet her. Listening to Dear Therapists for 0:08:10.879 --> 0:08:13.639 my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break. 0:08:21.119 --> 0:08:24.439 I'm Lari Gottlieb and I'm Guy Winch and this is 0:08:24.519 --> 0:08:25.719 Dear Therapists. 0:08:28.239 --> 0:08:31.119 So, hi, Emma, hey, welcome to the show. 0:08:31.839 --> 0:08:33.079 Thank you so much for having me. 0:08:33.439 --> 0:08:38.239 Of course, so we read about your dilemma, and we 0:08:38.279 --> 0:08:41.159 want to start off by learning a little bit more 0:08:41.279 --> 0:08:45.839 about your relationships prior to the one with your professor. 0:08:46.239 --> 0:08:47.879 Can you tell us a little bit about those. 0:08:48.879 --> 0:08:53.159 I was in one romantic relationship, but it was kind 0:08:53.199 --> 0:08:58.519 of short and really intense, and it was my sophomore 0:08:58.599 --> 0:09:01.799 year of college. We met at the end of our 0:09:02.319 --> 0:09:06.639 first semester, and then the school that I went to 0:09:06.799 --> 0:09:11.399 has a very long winter break, and so we started 0:09:11.439 --> 0:09:14.319 texting a lot, which turned into like texting every day 0:09:14.519 --> 0:09:16.599 for like six weeks until we got back to campus. 0:09:16.639 --> 0:09:20.039 And then when we did get back. We started dating immediately, 0:09:20.199 --> 0:09:24.239 really intensely, and because it started so soon and so intensely, 0:09:24.279 --> 0:09:27.359 it kind of like imploded on itself. And so we 0:09:27.439 --> 0:09:29.599 dated for a few months, and that was kind of 0:09:29.599 --> 0:09:32.679 the only relationship I had been in prior. And then 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.399 I had other like short term things or flings or whatever, 0:09:36.479 --> 0:09:38.439 but nothing really serious other than that. 0:09:39.839 --> 0:09:42.679 So this person was your age. He was a fellow student. 0:09:43.199 --> 0:09:45.399 Yeah, he was a fellow student who was two or 0:09:45.479 --> 0:09:46.879 three years older than me. 0:09:48.039 --> 0:09:49.879 And did you have that feeling with him that you 0:09:49.959 --> 0:09:54.599 described in your letter that somebody your age couldn't possibly 0:09:54.759 --> 0:09:59.879 understand the depth of your feelings or had this sort 0:09:59.879 --> 0:10:02.479 of emotional maturity that I think you're looking for. 0:10:04.239 --> 0:10:08.799 He was very empathetic and really smart. I felt connected 0:10:08.799 --> 0:10:10.919 to him in a lot of ways. And he was 0:10:10.919 --> 0:10:15.519 like a good listener and empathetic, but wasn't as open 0:10:15.719 --> 0:10:21.279 or as emotionally intelligent, I guess as other people. 0:10:21.879 --> 0:10:25.599 With the professor, you said that that happened around the 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.599 time that your dad was dying. I think could you 0:10:29.639 --> 0:10:32.199 tell us a little bit about that period, what was 0:10:32.239 --> 0:10:36.679 happening on the dad front and how things about with him? 0:10:37.159 --> 0:10:38.879 Yeah, I mean That's another thing too, Like when I 0:10:38.919 --> 0:10:41.959 was dating that other person, my dad was still sick 0:10:42.039 --> 0:10:45.199 and was kind of slowly dying, but it wasn't the same. 0:10:46.279 --> 0:10:51.039 So then my senior year of college, the treatments that 0:10:51.239 --> 0:10:55.439 my dad had been undergoing, like radiation therapy and imminotherapy 0:10:56.239 --> 0:11:00.119 stopped working, which we found out like on September fourteenth 0:11:00.119 --> 0:11:03.239 of my senior year of college. And then a few 0:11:03.239 --> 0:11:05.679 weeks or maybe a month later, he started hospice care 0:11:05.719 --> 0:11:10.319 and that's when he really started to decline. And that's 0:11:10.399 --> 0:11:13.679 also when I met that professor as well. 0:11:14.919 --> 0:11:17.879 I would love to hear more about your relationship with 0:11:17.919 --> 0:11:20.479 your father. Can you tell us more about him and 0:11:21.239 --> 0:11:23.439 what it was like between the two of you growing up, 0:11:23.519 --> 0:11:25.439 and then also at the time when he got sick. 0:11:26.799 --> 0:11:30.479 Yeah, I think we kind of went in and out 0:11:30.519 --> 0:11:33.919 of being close. So it was hard because he became 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.679 sick like my freshman or sophomore year of high school. 0:11:38.719 --> 0:11:41.119 So I kind of lost like a huge part of 0:11:41.159 --> 0:11:45.479 my dad when I was in high school. But prior 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:49.319 to that, he was always like the really goofy one 0:11:49.759 --> 0:11:53.399 and was super smart and I don't know, like we 0:11:53.439 --> 0:11:55.839 played sports together. He taught me how to play baseball, 0:11:55.919 --> 0:11:58.839 He taught me how to ride a bike. We did 0:11:58.839 --> 0:12:03.599 a lot of like candy things together too, And then 0:12:03.639 --> 0:12:06.399 it was also kind of hard, like slowly losing him 0:12:06.439 --> 0:12:10.199 while I was also going through the classic teenage years 0:12:10.239 --> 0:12:11.759 of when I was supposed to be kind of pulling 0:12:11.759 --> 0:12:13.999 away from my family and becoming more and more independent. 0:12:15.039 --> 0:12:17.399 Who told you and how did they tell you that 0:12:17.439 --> 0:12:20.239 your dad was sick? And how clear was it to 0:12:20.279 --> 0:12:22.359 you at the time that this was serious. 0:12:22.759 --> 0:12:26.919 Well, my mom, I'm sure told me. And then throughout 0:12:26.999 --> 0:12:29.639 high school and even college, there was always kind of 0:12:29.639 --> 0:12:32.399 a negotiation and battle between I having an older brothers 0:12:32.439 --> 0:12:36.079 five years older, and so there's always a negotiation between 0:12:36.719 --> 0:12:38.959 us and my parents of like how much they would 0:12:38.999 --> 0:12:40.559 tell us and how much we wanted to know, and 0:12:40.599 --> 0:12:42.839 we always wanted to know as much information as possible, 0:12:42.879 --> 0:12:45.439 but my mom kind of wanted to protect us. But 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.799 also throughout the years, like my dad never wanted to 0:12:47.839 --> 0:12:51.319 know his prognosis, so that wasn't anything that if him 0:12:51.439 --> 0:12:54.959 or his doctor or my mom would know or talk about. 0:12:55.199 --> 0:13:00.679 And it became more serious probably my sophomore year of college, 0:13:01.159 --> 0:13:06.319 because I guess that's when it became stage three, where 0:13:06.439 --> 0:13:08.479 it had spread to his lymph nodes and it had 0:13:08.519 --> 0:13:11.719 become more serious, and my mom would kind of make 0:13:11.799 --> 0:13:16.319 like a fan somewhat like hysterical remarks about him dying. 0:13:17.199 --> 0:13:19.119 What did those sound like? Those remarks? 0:13:20.719 --> 0:13:23.519 I just remember this one time, my mom saying, like, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.679 this is the last thing that we can do, and 0:13:26.759 --> 0:13:29.239 if this doesn't work, then like this is it. He's 0:13:29.279 --> 0:13:29.799 going to die. 0:13:30.439 --> 0:13:33.519 And that felt hysterical to you because on the one hand, 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.119 you were saying, my brother and I really wanted to 0:13:36.159 --> 0:13:38.679 know the truth of what was happening. And on the 0:13:38.759 --> 0:13:40.919 other hand, when she says, this is the last thing. 0:13:40.959 --> 0:13:44.559 If this doesn't work, he's going to die, that felt 0:13:44.879 --> 0:13:45.719 hysterical to you. 0:13:47.279 --> 0:13:50.679 It felt hysirical in the moment because it was like 0:13:51.039 --> 0:13:56.119 incredibly passionate and high pitch and have a specific tone 0:13:56.239 --> 0:13:59.399 with it. And at that time it wasn't true either. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:04.359 This was three years before he died, and he underwent 0:14:04.839 --> 0:14:09.639 countless treatments in those next three years, so it wasn't 0:14:09.719 --> 0:14:12.479 quite true, and it wasn't really what the doctors were saying. 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.799 It was felt more of just like and totally understandable, 0:14:17.119 --> 0:14:19.559 like a moment of weakness and kind of just like 0:14:19.879 --> 0:14:21.799 breaking down. I mean, she had to deal with this 0:14:21.879 --> 0:14:25.519 for the longest and most intensely out of all of us. 0:14:26.079 --> 0:14:29.079 How did you support one another in the family because 0:14:29.479 --> 0:14:32.839 your older brother and you were not privy to all 0:14:32.879 --> 0:14:36.239 the information, so you didn't know everything. They didn't know 0:14:36.239 --> 0:14:39.079 everything because they didn't want to know everything. But how 0:14:39.119 --> 0:14:41.159 did the support go? Who was the person that was 0:14:41.199 --> 0:14:43.879 trying to be more supported? Did that flip around? Who 0:14:43.879 --> 0:14:46.559 supported you? Who supported your mom? Your dad, your brother? 0:14:47.479 --> 0:14:51.439 Yeah? I think it changed over the years. I mean 0:14:51.479 --> 0:14:54.199 I was a teenager and just like very far removed 0:14:54.199 --> 0:14:57.199 from anything that was happening. I just wanted to be 0:14:57.239 --> 0:15:00.399 a kid, and so we were all kind of in 0:15:00.439 --> 0:15:04.759 our own planes. I guess later on my brother really 0:15:04.759 --> 0:15:07.679 supported my dad in a lot of ways. They were 0:15:07.719 --> 0:15:08.679 really really close. 0:15:09.839 --> 0:15:11.919 In what ways did your brother support your dad? 0:15:12.599 --> 0:15:16.599 Well, my brother ended up in the last year or 0:15:16.639 --> 0:15:19.639 two of my dad's life, my brother stopped working. He 0:15:20.319 --> 0:15:23.039 lived with my parents off and on, like a few 0:15:23.119 --> 0:15:25.559 days a week to just kind of be there and 0:15:25.599 --> 0:15:27.439 hang out with my dad and spend time with him 0:15:28.119 --> 0:15:30.959 throughout the whole time. Like, my dad definitely had a 0:15:30.999 --> 0:15:34.199 lot of trouble, like talking about his feelings and he 0:15:34.279 --> 0:15:36.439 was suppressed in a lot of ways, and my brother 0:15:36.519 --> 0:15:39.079 would always kind of push him and push him as 0:15:39.159 --> 0:15:40.919 much as possible to talk about those things. 0:15:41.279 --> 0:15:44.119 Who did you talk to, Emma? Your brother was there 0:15:44.239 --> 0:15:46.679 for your dad and they were talking to each other, 0:15:47.119 --> 0:15:48.359 But who were you talking to? 0:15:48.999 --> 0:15:52.439 In high school, I didn't tell anyone about it or 0:15:52.519 --> 0:15:57.879 talk to anyone about it. Actually the first the first 0:15:57.879 --> 0:16:00.679 person that I told was my high school english teacher 0:16:00.719 --> 0:16:04.399 because I had to write a college essay and I 0:16:04.519 --> 0:16:06.519 used to play ping pong with my dad all the time, 0:16:06.599 --> 0:16:08.999 and I wrote about the first time that I beat him, 0:16:10.519 --> 0:16:13.199 and he would always play me lefty because he was 0:16:13.919 --> 0:16:16.919 a lot better than me, and I could never beat him, 0:16:16.919 --> 0:16:20.159 but I won because he was sick and he just 0:16:20.279 --> 0:16:24.759 couldn't play as well as he used to. And then 0:16:25.719 --> 0:16:29.999 one of my friends from high school found out because 0:16:32.479 --> 0:16:35.799 she went to my house looking for me and I 0:16:35.879 --> 0:16:38.639 wasn't there, but my dad was there and he just 0:16:38.679 --> 0:16:41.599 got back from maybe the hospital or something, and so 0:16:41.719 --> 0:16:45.999 he told her what was happening. So that was the 0:16:46.039 --> 0:16:48.519 first person I guess that I talked to about it, 0:16:48.759 --> 0:16:55.359 which was this summer after my senior year of high school. Yeah, 0:16:55.359 --> 0:16:57.639 and then when things started getting worse my sophomore year 0:16:57.639 --> 0:16:59.919 of college, I started just valing my friends about it, 0:16:59.999 --> 0:17:02.119 and the person I was dating at that time, I 0:17:02.119 --> 0:17:05.239 would talk to him about it too, whenever my dad 0:17:05.239 --> 0:17:07.239 looked like a scan and we were waiting for insults. 0:17:07.239 --> 0:17:07.999 And I was worried. 0:17:08.919 --> 0:17:11.279 When you're friend in high school found out and reached 0:17:11.279 --> 0:17:13.439 out to you, what was that like for you for 0:17:13.559 --> 0:17:16.839 somebody to know, and what were those conversations like? 0:17:18.999 --> 0:17:23.399 I guess it was a relief, but it was really 0:17:23.519 --> 0:17:27.359 hard for me to talk about it. Yeah. I remember 0:17:28.439 --> 0:17:32.719 we just like drove around in her car and she 0:17:32.839 --> 0:17:36.839 was trying to talk to me about it, and yeah, 0:17:36.879 --> 0:17:38.399 it was kind of a relief to know. 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:39.559 That she knew. 0:17:40.839 --> 0:17:44.879 But I guy was pretty emotional in crying, and yeah, 0:17:44.919 --> 0:17:49.239 it's really hard for me to process it. And at 0:17:49.239 --> 0:17:54.439 that time, also at that time, his illness was getting 0:17:54.519 --> 0:17:58.839 visibly worse, so things were also becoming a lot more 0:17:58.919 --> 0:18:01.519 real and right in front of me. And it was 0:18:01.559 --> 0:18:04.759 also when I was like getting ready to leave for college. 0:18:05.199 --> 0:18:08.519 But now it kind of felt like his life was 0:18:08.559 --> 0:18:10.959 a lot more friend so it was tough leave hat 0:18:11.079 --> 0:18:12.279 during that time too. 0:18:12.959 --> 0:18:15.799 It sounds like you were very close with your dad 0:18:15.839 --> 0:18:20.119 in some ways, and clearly it's affecting you. Yet I'm 0:18:20.159 --> 0:18:23.119 not hearing that you were reaching out to friends to 0:18:23.159 --> 0:18:27.119 get support, and I ask why I was. 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.279 I don't know, kind of similar to my dad in 0:18:29.319 --> 0:18:35.599 a lot of ways and like very stoic, and I 0:18:35.599 --> 0:18:38.679 guess I didn't think that I needed help, and I 0:18:38.799 --> 0:18:42.039 kind of just coped with it in the ways that 0:18:42.079 --> 0:18:44.639 I knew how. I guess I wasn't ready to talk 0:18:44.639 --> 0:18:47.559 about it either, because I mean it more real. I 0:18:47.639 --> 0:18:51.079 just started running a lot and biking a lot, and 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.319 that was kind of like my way of dealing with it. 0:18:55.719 --> 0:18:57.799 I'm wondering about what was going on between you and 0:18:57.839 --> 0:19:01.319 your brother, because you said your brother, at least in 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.079 that last year, was able to really talk with your 0:19:05.159 --> 0:19:07.919 dad and be close with your dad. Were you able 0:19:07.959 --> 0:19:10.559 to talk with your brother what was happening and how 0:19:10.559 --> 0:19:11.239 you were feeling. 0:19:12.879 --> 0:19:16.559 Yeah, we I think became a lot closer because of it. 0:19:17.239 --> 0:19:24.279 Later on, like when I was in college that summer, 0:19:24.959 --> 0:19:27.999 the summer AFFROMI senior year of high school, we didn't 0:19:28.039 --> 0:19:29.639 really talk about it. We were kind of in two 0:19:29.719 --> 0:19:33.079 different worlds at the time, and I think because I 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.199 suppressed a lot of it. When I got to college 0:19:35.239 --> 0:19:39.199 my freshman year, I had a lot of trouble integrating 0:19:39.279 --> 0:19:42.799 and I was like very homesick and sad, and my 0:19:42.999 --> 0:19:45.279 brother kind of talked me through a lot of that 0:19:45.519 --> 0:19:47.559 and we became a lot closer because of that. 0:19:48.919 --> 0:19:53.319 So in your sophomore year, your dad is now apparently 0:19:53.399 --> 0:19:58.799 quite ill, and you start dating this person at school 0:19:59.199 --> 0:20:01.679 and you said that it kind of imploded, I think 0:20:01.759 --> 0:20:04.239 is how you described it. Can you tell us about 0:20:04.239 --> 0:20:04.799 the implosion? 0:20:06.239 --> 0:20:11.519 Yeah, So when we first started dating, we were in 0:20:11.559 --> 0:20:15.559 a relationship. I like essentially moved into his dorm room, 0:20:16.919 --> 0:20:19.399 and for me, it was going really well, but it 0:20:19.439 --> 0:20:22.119 was really really fast. It just too fast, and that 0:20:22.239 --> 0:20:23.999 really freaked him out because he had been in a 0:20:24.039 --> 0:20:27.679 relationship that started too quickly and then ended really badly, 0:20:27.759 --> 0:20:30.599 and he didn't want to do that again. So he 0:20:30.799 --> 0:20:33.719 kind of hit the brakes on us and wanted to 0:20:33.799 --> 0:20:35.959 kind of pause and go back and take it slow 0:20:36.039 --> 0:20:38.359 and just kind of date and not sort of be 0:20:38.439 --> 0:20:42.119 in this like intense relationship from the get go. And 0:20:42.399 --> 0:20:44.279 I didn't want to do that, and I felt like 0:20:44.439 --> 0:20:48.359 he was just kind of like moving slower and slower 0:20:48.399 --> 0:20:52.039 away from me. And by the end of the semester, 0:20:52.279 --> 0:20:56.439 I just couldn't really deal with it anymore. The previous 0:20:56.439 --> 0:20:58.199 semester I was just like a total mess, in a 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.999 nightmare and all over the place and failed in my classes. 0:21:01.439 --> 0:21:03.759 Then this semester I bit off more than I could chew. 0:21:03.879 --> 0:21:05.599 I was wait, hold on, I want to step you there. 0:21:05.639 --> 0:21:07.319 So you said it. You kind of threw that off, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:08.639 like you kind of tossed that off. 0:21:09.039 --> 0:21:09.239 You know. 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.319 I failed all my classes and I was a mess. 0:21:11.679 --> 0:21:13.719 No, No, I just failed one class. 0:21:13.319 --> 0:21:17.559 Just one, okay? But was that related to what was 0:21:17.599 --> 0:21:21.439 going on for you emotionally around your father's illness or 0:21:21.479 --> 0:21:24.439 what was happening for you? I mean, was that unusual 0:21:24.519 --> 0:21:24.759 for you? 0:21:26.159 --> 0:21:29.639 Yeah? I was definitely unusual. I was a really good student. 0:21:29.919 --> 0:21:32.399 Freshman year of college was fine, but I was like 0:21:32.559 --> 0:21:36.319 very very unhappy. But I did okay. And then sophomore 0:21:36.399 --> 0:21:39.119 year of college, I was just kind of consumed with 0:21:39.879 --> 0:21:42.079 getting as many friends as I could so I could 0:21:42.079 --> 0:21:45.479 be happier, and like, my dad was doing worse and 0:21:45.919 --> 0:21:49.239 I wasn't handling it particularly well. And I also kind 0:21:49.239 --> 0:21:53.279 of just stopped talking to my parents that semester, to 0:21:53.399 --> 0:21:55.439 both of them, both of them. 0:21:55.519 --> 0:22:01.319 Yeah, why, I don't know, So what was the circumstance 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.959 in which you just speaking to them? Like, how did 0:22:03.959 --> 0:22:04.599 that come about? 0:22:06.079 --> 0:22:08.319 I just like wouldn't call them, I wouldn't really pick 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:09.999 up their call, was like, and I felt like I 0:22:10.039 --> 0:22:13.279 was like trying on this personality that was like much 0:22:13.279 --> 0:22:18.599 more outgoing and fun, and that didn't align with talking 0:22:18.639 --> 0:22:19.439 to my parents a lot. 0:22:20.279 --> 0:22:22.759 It also didn't align with the fact that your dad 0:22:22.879 --> 0:22:25.919 was doing very badly, And I'm wondering if that was 0:22:26.679 --> 0:22:29.079 a real attempt to run away from that reality. 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.479 Probably, Yeah, it all kind of felt like an escape, 0:22:35.599 --> 0:22:38.399 for sure. My parents were not happy about it. 0:22:40.079 --> 0:22:42.519 How did those conversations go where they told you that 0:22:42.559 --> 0:22:44.839 they weren't happy about the fact that you weren't communicating 0:22:44.839 --> 0:22:45.199 with them. 0:22:46.399 --> 0:22:49.199 I think I would hear it from my brother. Probably. 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.719 They were definitely like very disappointed when I ended up 0:22:52.719 --> 0:22:56.439 feeling one of my classes, and I remember my dad saying, like, 0:22:56.639 --> 0:22:58.759