WEBVTT - The Nun’s Skeleton PT 2 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.080 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:09.880 last twenty five years writing about true crime. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.160 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.759 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:21.239 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most compelling. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.240 True crimes, and I weigh in using modern forensic techniques 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.400 to bring new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:32.000 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.720 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.120 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:45.800 This is buried Bones. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:02.680 Hi, Kate, how are you? 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:04.640 I'm well, Paul, how about you. 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:09.840 I'm hanging in there. I've been reviewing my notes about 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.280 this case out there in Baltimore, and I'm interested to 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.360 see where you go from here with the details. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.080 Yeah, there are a lot of details. Just to try 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:24.080 to summarize this case. This is November seventh, nineteen sixty nine. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.720 There is a Catholic nun who is a teacher at 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.080 a high school. Her name is Kathy Sesnik. She goes 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.360 missing and then ultimately she is found dead with a 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.839 huge gaping wound to her skull. There is another woman 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.360 who goes missing around the same time. Her name is 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.119 Joyce Malecki. We don't know if there's a connection between 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.080 the two of them. We will eventually find out that 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:53.880 there has been a horrible abuse, sexual abuse of students 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:58.440 at this high school, Kiyo High School in Baltimore for years. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.720 We have students coming forward twenty five years later to 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.000 say that this is what happened. And the key student 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.320 here is a woman named Jean who in the show 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.640 The Keepers comes forward and says that there was a 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.560 priest who was abusing girls at the school, who, as 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.560 a way to shut her up about his abuse against her, 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.480 takes her to Sister Kathy's body and says, this is 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.320 what will happen to you. So I think we have 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.160 many tasks here. One does not need to be to 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.800 prove the rampant sexual abuse that's happening at this high school, 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.080 which The Keepers does very well. I am convinced, you 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.080 are convinced, we are all convinced. What I'm trying to 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.240 figure out, what we need to know is making that 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.840 connection between what will end up being a little bit 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.919 of a list of suspects on who murdered Kathy Seysnick, 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.880 you know, versus how much did she know about the 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.639 sexual abuse that was happening. And that's what we're really 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.880 going to be digging into in this second episode, is 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.440 you know what she knew? What witnesses say she knew 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.360 and didn't know that sort of thing. So is that 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.480 what your memory is of this story? 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:11.840 Yeah, that's that's what I'm recalling. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.480 And I guess I kind of want to start by 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:20.320 just clarifying Gina saying this Joseph Maskell told her when 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.639 he went out and had her see Kathy's body. Does 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.400 he make any statements that he is the one that 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.040 killed Kathy to Jean at that time? 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.160 So this is what Gene says in the Keepers. She 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.400 says that one day after sister Kathy disappeared, but before 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.040 the body is discovered, so there's a two month gap there, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.640 that father Maskell drove her to sister Kathy's body at 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.960 the dump, so this would have been sometime in November 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.080 or December. She says that he told her the same 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.840 thing would happen to her if she told anyone about 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.880 the abuse. She says that she remembers there being maggots 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:01.119 on sister Kathy's body. So this linds up being used 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.360 to discredit her at some point because people had said 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.560 it was too cold outside for maggots, but doctor Spitz 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.480 confirmed there was maggot activity on her body. But again, 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.720 you know, what the police eventually say is that she 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.839 knows too much information about the body where the body 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.080 was located to have not actually been there. It is 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.240 my understanding that he is not saying I did it. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.400 He is saying here it is you need to keep 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.200 your mouth shut. There's no confession as far as I know. 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.760 Yeah, so you know what I'm drawing from this is 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:40.640 Maskal minimally has knowledge of where Kathy's body has been placed. Now, 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:46.359 there's maybe two competing scenarios. Is either he's the one 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.640 who by himself killed Kathy put her body there, and 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:56.760 he is utilizing this so Gene is basically made to 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.760 fear for her life if she ever divulges the on 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.680 going sexual abuse that she's experiencing from Mascal. The other 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:10.040 competing theory is you have a close knit group of 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:15.600 offenders that either one or multiple members of this group 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.279 were involved in Kathy's abduction and homicide and they've shared 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.720 information amongst themselves, and so now it's a matter of 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:28.680 teasing out which theory is correct. And that's where if 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.480 it's multiple people, if you have a conspiracy, investigators at 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:37.120 least have a greater likelihood of getting one of the 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:42.720 members of that conspiracy group to provide information. You can 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.440 put that person in jeopardy in a variety of ways, 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.960 whether it's that person's freedom that they're going to be 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.120 charged unless they are able to conclusively say who is 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.279 responsible for Kathy's homicide and get them to turn on 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:01.000 the other group. If it's just Maskal, who by himself 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.800 abducted and killed Kathy, then that's a little bit tougher, 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.919 especially a quarter century later. But there is potential forensic evidence, 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.880 you know, that they could potentially use to prove Mascal's 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.159 involvement with Kathy's homicide. 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.279 Let me tell you what ended up leading to it. 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:28.159 Sounds like Mascal threatening Jeane by taking her to see 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.000 Kathy's body. Let's talk about the lead up to that. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.400 Jeane says that in June, so the summer of nineteen 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.679 sixty nine, this was Kathy's last year at Keio before 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.320 she took the sabbatical and worked at a public school. 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:46.160 Sister Kathy asks her Jean if any of the priests 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.800 are making her do things that she doesn't want to do, 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:54.400 so Kathy is suspicious. Jeane says to her in confidence 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.599 over the summer. Yes, Sister Kathy hugs her and tells 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:00.680 her to go home and have a one erful summer 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.800 and that she will fix it. And another student in 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:09.080 the keepers in the documentary specifically remembers telling Kathy that 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.840 Father Maskal would get physical in his office. This student 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.320 says that she suspects that Kathy already knew about this 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.640 because then a third student says she was with sister 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:25.200 Kathy when Father Maskeal called her the student to his office, 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.440 and Kathy turned to Mascal and said she's not coming, 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.120 She's not available. And she says that they made eye contact, 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.040 Kathy and this student, and it was clear that she 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.480 knew what was going on. But when Jeane gets back 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.600 to school in the fall, you know, and Kathy had 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.480 said I'll take care of it, Kathy was gone and 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.840 Father Maskal was still there, so Kathy was at another school. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.080 She had not been murdered at that point, he says. 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:54.240 Father Maskal says to Jane early in that year, someone 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:59.120 accused him of hurting the students, and so this is 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.080 the build up to after the murder, but before her 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.000 body is discovered. Within that two month period, Father Maskel 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.920 is using the body as Kathy's body as a way 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.720 to threaten Gene to keep her mouth shut because obviously 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.320 people are coming forward and Kathy knew too much. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.360 Sure, you know, but the circumstances of how Kathy's body 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.960 was found, in terms of the state of her clothing, 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:28.080 her shirt is open. This in many ways doesn't equate 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.600 to what I would consider a sheer elimination homicide, the 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.480 elimination of a witness. There is a sexual component to 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.880 what happened to Kathy, no question about it. If let's 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:43.360 say Maskal is responsible for Kathy's homicide and he is 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.520 abusing Gene and probably other female students, he is a 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:53.800 predator that is working within this church environment or this 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.960 religious school environment. Now the question, of course is is 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:04.319 who else is aware of these activities. I can't imagine 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.280 that Kathy is the only nun that is aware, and 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.000 by focusing all efforts to eliminate Kathy as a witness, 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.840 that that's going to solve the problem of Oh, people 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.320 are talking and we're going to be found out, you know. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.200 So this is where I'm not sure what the motive is, 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:26.720 you know, with Kathy being killed from that perspective, but 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.600 there is a sexual component to Kathy's homicide and it 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:34.319 is being done by an individual that doesn't have any 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:39.960 qualms about committing the sexually motivated homicide. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.959 Well, let me tell you some more. So, Jean later 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.400 remembers another detail. Now remember this is coming out pauled 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.920 decades after all of this happened. She says one of 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:54.000 her abusers was just referred to as brother Bob. She 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.959 believes that he alluded to knowing about her murders, sister 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.160 Kathy's murder, and about being present for it. But that's 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.679 all she remembers. She doesn't have a lot of details 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.520 about the body, and what they're claiming are recovered memories again, 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:12.920 are things that happened a long time ago, but that 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.160 she seems to remember specifically. And like I said that 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.480 the newspaper reports were that there was a lot of 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:23.480 information that she knew about the scene that there's no 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.280 way she should have known. Let me tell you a 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.760 weird story. So, according to the doc series, an anonymous 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.880 student in her boyfriend had gone to Sister Kathy's home 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.520 the afternoon of the day she disappeared, so not that 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.760 night before she went out shopping, she was alive. The 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.080 student and the boyfriend say that Father Maskell and Father 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:50.040 Magnus burst into the apartment without knocking, and that sister 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.440 Kathy sent the student and her boyfriend away. So that 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:56.760 was a story that came up in the keepers. But 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.920 the research note says, you know, we don't know where 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.520 Sister Russell was. Jerry Kob says that he doubts that 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.200 this happened because Sister Russell never said anything to anyone 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.319 about that, but the student is insistent that this is 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:14.120 what happened. The student also says that Sister Russell was there, 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.960 so I don't know why they would be making it up. 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.040 I'm sure I could figure many reasons out why they 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.200 were making it up. But essentially, Sister Russell never said 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.959 this happen, but the student was very clear that this 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.959 is what happened. These two men accused of sexual abuse 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.400 at Sister Kathy's school. First in and Sister Cathy said, okay, 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.640 you two, you student and boyfriend. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:34.680 Need to leave. 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:38.240 Yeah, and this the student. This is also a statement 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:43.320 that's being made twenty five years later, longer, even longer. Yes, okay, 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:48.880 you know, and we know memory is elastic. It's kind 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.440 of tough, you know for this type of witness statement 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.400 from my perspective, to put a lot of weight on that. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.280 And I think, you know, there's aspects to this investigation. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.200 You know, was Magnus interviewed back in the day, do 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:04.520 you know? 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.760 Not that I know of. I think it was completely squashed. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:13.560 This sexual abuse stuff never came out, even though there 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.840 was one person the Archdiocese of Baltimore said that Gene 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.800 was the first one to come forward about maskal in 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.800 nineteen ninety two, but there was a guy who said 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.960 he did come forward in sixty seven, right before Maskell 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.960 was transferred to Keo, to the high school. So people 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.040 had set stuff, but nothing had come out about the 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.520 sexual abuse to the police or to any kind of 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.280 authority figure. There was no reason to interview these guys. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.240 There there were no suspects, with the exception of father Jerry, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.839 and that was just because they had a personal relationship. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.800 Yeah, you know, and this is where you know, I 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.400 think Sister Russell is critical because before the archdiocese is 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:57.000 kind of squashing the investigation. Sister Russell is reporting Kathy missing, 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.880 she is being contacted by law enforcement at one thirty 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.000 am in the morning. So if Magnus and this other 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.520 guy what was his name, Maskeal Maskeal and this other 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.680 guy burst into their apartment complex the day that Kathy 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.640 went missing, how comes Sister Russell isn't telling that to 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.319 law enforcement at one thirty am. There's something not adding 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.000 up here. Sister Russell to me, is critical in terms of, 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.080 you know, what is going on. There's there's some goofiness 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.400 in terms of the timeline with her calling up Jerry 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.240 and Pete and them driving over the relationship between Jerry 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.160 and Kathy. It seems like if there had been these men, 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.680 even though they are you know, men of the cloth, 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.120 but bursting into the apartment earlier that day, that there 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:48.160 would be a statement to that effect by Sister Russell, right. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.640 I think that's why it's confusing for Jerry's part. Father Jerry, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.400 he says that Kathy wanted to talk to him about 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.120 something serious. They had planned to get together the day 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.080 after she disappeared, but he insists that she never told 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.160 him about the abuse. So he says, I didn't know. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.640 I can't imagine that, but who knows. He says, I 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.440 didn't know, and she didn't talk to me about it, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.680 but she sounded like she wanted to talk about something 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.480 very serious, you know, on November eighth. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:13.840 You know. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.720 I think one of the things I want to point out, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.720 as I've thought about this case is Kathy's car is 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.560 a critical piece of evidence, not just because of what 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.120 it could potentially have from a physical evidence standpoint, but 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:32.400 also how it was left. And Kathy scenes sitting in 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.720 her car in the proper parking space for apartment complex 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.600 by a neighbor. I have great confidence that that neighbor 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:45.240 is telling accurate information. And then the car is obviously 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.800 gone to a secondary location where it gets the mud 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.200 the vegetation on it. Inside of it, there's items from 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.520 Kathy that are missing out of this car. And then 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.000 the car is deposited back across the street from Kathy's 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.720 apartment in a half hazard manner. 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.320 It was done in haste. Why is that car brought back? 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:10.040 It's because the offender's vehicle was at Kathy's location somewhere 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:14.160 in that area. So the offender took Kathy killed Kathy 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.360 and had to get back using Kathy's vehicle in order 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.200 to get into their vehicle and drive off. So, you know, 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.840 the scenario that I'm seeing is the offender is seeing 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.440 Kathy either sitting alone in the vehicle or contacts Kathy 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.360 when she's trying to get into her apartment, and then 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.960 ultimately takes control of Kathy and her own vehicle, drives off, 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.720 kills Kathy, dumps Kathy at the dump site that looks 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.880 like it's what half hour away from where she was 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.880 abducted from, and then drives back to get his own 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.160 vehicle and drive off. This isn't Jerry and Pete. This 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.920 is somebody else. Now is his father Maskell? 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:53.320 You know? 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.760 Is he going to Kathy's apartment, sees her isolated and 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.600 takes advantage of that He at least per gene is 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.920 expressing knowledge where Kathy's body is. I have to assume 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.920 that authorities sufficiently vetted the gene's statement so that they 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.840 have confidence that this recovered memory. And I'm not even 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.560 sure it classifies as a recovered memory. She just didn't 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.280 come forward. She was a kid when this happened to her, right, Yeah, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.920 you know, so I'm just going to trust that the 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.560 authorities vetted her statement and say, yes, she is accurate 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.640 to the details, that we believe that Gene is telling 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.280 the truth about what happened. Well, now this becomes important. 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.520 I think it's a very small circle of suspects that 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.720 are responsible for Kathy's homicide and they just need to 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.760 be vetted one by one and figure out, well, who 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.920 is it and if they still have Kathy's clothing, you know, 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.400 whatever is covered from her body, if they still have 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.360 stuff out of the vehicle, Leyton Prince, whatever they did, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.920 you know, there's potentially physical evidence that can help sort 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:00.440 this out. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.680 Let me wrap up this part of the story. None 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.640 of this information about abuse that Keyo comes to light 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.600 until about nineteen ninety four, and that's when Jane hires 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.919 an attorney because she was being stonewalled by the church. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.520 This lawyer puts an advertisement in the Baltimore Sun asking 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.879 for any information about are their survivors of abuse that 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.720 went to Archbishop Keo school. That ad doesn't say anything 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.240 about Father Maskeal in particular, but about forty women come 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.119 forward and nearly all their stories are about him. This 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.879 information is given to the state's attorney, but Mascal is 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.840 never charged, never charged. Okay, so let me just tell 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.479 you one other thing and then we need to get 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.159 to other suspects too. In ninety four, Jean and another 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.240 former student, who's a woman named Teresa Lancaster, sue father Maskal. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.520 And this is a suit that's ultimately dismissedly because the 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.880 statue of limitations had lapsed. The case went to trial 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.760 in the first place because because it questioned if the 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:06.800 statute applies to memories that only recently surfaced at that time, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.560 this is considered a question of recovered memories. Though you know, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.120 there are a lot of new laws that have passed 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.840 allowing child victims to come forward and sue as adults. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.560 This is interesting. The Baltimore Archdiocese has recently declared bankruptcy 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.440 to avoid paying more of these settlements. So the recovered 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.399 memory I had not really even I haven't crossed paths 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.840 with that yet, and controversy around it, and I know 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.520 we talked about it, and the questions about whether what 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.280 Gene and any of these other students were experiencing were 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.040 not It doesn't sound like recovered memories. It sounded like 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.800 we're you know, we're pressed or you know, not coming forward, scared, forgotten, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.320 hidden for a while, something that hadn't been processed by 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.640 the person, but not drawn out by somebody. And that's 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:51.240 right to you. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.400 Yeah, you know, and I'm trying to remember the exact details. 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.960 California has been statute, you know, and I think California 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.160 uses the term repressed memories, but I'm not entirely sure 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.920 about that. But there's something to the effect that if 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:12.240 a person comes forward with a repress memory and at 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.720 the time of let's say their sexual abuse, they were 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.880 fifteen years or younger, they have like thirty years after 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.919 the crime occurred to come forward and then the case 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.480 could potentially be charged. I may be way off base 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.120 on that, but that's kind of what's ringing a bell. 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.160 I had one case, and it had nothing to do 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:39.280 with sexual abuse. It was a woman who came forward 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.800 with a repressed memory saying she remembered her dad burying 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.919 a body in the backyard, you know, and of course 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.840 ended up never finding anything. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.800 But I do know that these types of. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:58.000 Memories you do have, from a psychological standpoint, there is 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.320 the possibility of somebody just bearing this memory and then 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.760 having it come forward at some point. But you have 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.879 to kind of, you know, tease out the people that 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:11.640 are being honest and truthful, people that are misremembering things, 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.320 and then people who are just making stuff up. 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.880 Yeah, I mean, just like in a normal witness repress 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.240 memory or not, you're just having to figure out who's 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.120 truthful and who's not, what their motives. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.960 Are, right, absolutely, yep, for sure. 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.479 Well I wish this had a better ending that you know, 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.800 father Maskell got punished in some way. He doesn't. He 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.960 dies of a stroke in two thousand and one, which 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.480 is too bad. At that point in time, the archdiocese 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:42.120 says that the allegations against Maskal were credible, quote unquote, 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.680 and confirmed that he did have guns in his residence. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.960 I don't think we're surprised by that. Sister Russell died 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.199 not long after. She was not a nun any longer. 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.119 She had been married and had a family, and she 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.480 died just a couple of months after. And a friend 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.920 called her when he died, when mass died before she died, 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.119 and Sister Russell said, well, he took his secret to 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.400 the grave. Now there's been renewed interests starting in two 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.520 thousand and five, and there's a reporter named Tom Nugent, 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.239 who writes a story for the Baltimore City Paper that 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.720 rehashes everything that has happened, and for the first time, 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.840 he starts looking at the connections between father Maskell and 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.879 the other victim, Joyce Malecki, who we weren't sure is 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.040 connected or not. So she's the other young woman who 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.439 was killed right after sister Kathy disappeared. So tell me 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.440 what you think about these connections. I'll go through half 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.359 of them and stop, and then you can tell me 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.880 if you think these are strong connections. Okay, So this 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.680 is what Tom Nugent comes up with. He looks at 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:46.399 the nineteen sixty eight sixty nine Kio year book. So 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.119 this is the high school where Maskal was and it 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.800 shows that a gift was made that year by the 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:56.879 Malechi family on their patron's page. And the interviews with 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.920 the remaining family members revealed that when they lived in Lansdowne, 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.000 which is less than a mile from where Cathy Saysnick's 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:09.320 body was, they attended a church, Saint Clement Church. The 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:13.280 Maluche siblings, including Joyce, went to week long retreats as 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.880 high school students, during which they spend entire days engaged 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.960 in religious instruction with priests, So that might not seem 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.440 like a big deal, except the Baltimore archdis and records 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:30.040 confirm that Maskel served at Saint Clement in Lansdowne from 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.320 sixty six to sixty eight, And this is essentially saying 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.720 that they would have likely crossed paths. Joyce Maluche the 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.360 dead Girl and Joseph Maskell. So what do you think 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.399 so far? So they would have crossed paths. And I 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.280 don't know. The family apparently gave money. I don't think 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.280 the current family or the family that's around now knows why. 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.800 But they gave money to the high school where Mascal worked, 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:59.120 and it sounds like she attended week long retreats where 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.040 Mascal would have been for sure. 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.760 Yeah, you know, I don't know. I'm not putting much 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.240 weight on this, this gift of money to the high school. 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:11.840 If they could confirm that Mascal and Joyce were at 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.720 the same location at the same time, you know, that's 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.960 where now Mascal at least could see a victim as 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:22.480 you know, maybe established a relationship you know, with this victim, 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:26.320 just as this authority figure within this this location. But 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.320 it's I mean, it's weak, you know, it's it could 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:31.520 just be coincidental. 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:34.240 Yeah, so let me tell you a couple more things. 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.919 It looks like the records show that father Maskal was 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.840 Joyce Malech's parish priest during a two year period shortly 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.000 before she was killed. I don't know if that means 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.760 that they were just because he was, you know, her priest, 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.480 doesn't mean that they had really personal interactions. I don't 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.280 know if she took confession. I don't know any of that. 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:55.439 We just know that they would have been certainly in 0:23:55.480 --> 0:24:00.040 the same vicinity. And Father Maskal sent her family a 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:04.640 condolence card after she was found murdered. Oh interesting, Yeah, 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.920 I mean, so he knew her for sure. If we're 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:10.840 going to talk about Joyce Malucky briefly, she was twenty 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:15.160