WEBVTT - How Tarot Works? 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.119 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.080 and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, So it's a 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.480 good old fashioned hooting and holler and how down of 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.439 a Stuff you Should Know episode. Yeehaw. Uh, this is 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:29.520 your pick the tar Otah, I'm sorry, that's okay. Uh. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:33.360 You know who's into this a little bit? Uh? Fortune tellers, 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:39.200 wealth tarrot specifically who my wife? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.520 Emily has gotten into it a little bit, and she's 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.640 definitely of the of the state of mind of like, listen, 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.600 this is something I do in the morning to sort 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.800 of have a little quiet time. And I don't think 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.040 she thinks that it like guides her life or has 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.840 any sort of magic qualities. I think it's a little 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.000 more one of those things like I'm gonna see what 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:00.960 my cards say and just sort of ruminate on that 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.400 stuff and maybe it'll open up some new ideas and 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.120 thoughts about life. I was reading a Vogue article that 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.720 was pretty in depth about it, and that seems to 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.919 be the general usage of tarot these days, and it's huge. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:21.120 It's gotten really big lately, apparently in a billion dollars 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.600 worth of tarot cards were sold around the world. Yeah, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.720 and they're expecting it to go up by another quarter 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.520 billion in the next three years. So it's definitely a thing. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.920 For sure, it's having a moment, But um, it is 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.200 kind of reassuring that it's not like following like the 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.320 crystals are essential oil healing tract and instead people are like, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.199 I'm just using this to reflect on my my life. Yeah. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.600 And I think she also likes just thinks the cards 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:52.040 are beautiful and cool looking and appreciates the art and 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.400 that kind of thing, which they They are very and 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.960 they can be expensive and super beautiful. Yeah. Do you 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.800 do you know what deck she has them? Sure, it's 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:06.400 probably just the standard shopping ball tech from Spencer's Gifts. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.440 The the Green Day Tarot Day? Is there really a 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:12.760 green Day? I know some bands have their own, I 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.240 don't think so it's possible. Who knows that Billy Billy 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:23.480 Joe Armstrong is. He's very innovative little guy. So, um, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.760 we are talking about tarot cards today. I think we 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.800 let the cat out of the bag already. Um, and 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.040 they are not as old as you would think. And 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:39.080 then their use of um for divination purposes is even 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.960 younger than that. And there was a really long standing 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.079 myth that I thought was correct up until yesterday. The 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:51.440 day before that, playing cards evolved out of tarot cards 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.640 in in an effort to conceal them at a time 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.600 when people had to like watch out with their mysticism, 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.280 their esoteric knowledge the occult, else they might be persecuted, 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.200 so they developed them into playing cards like we have today. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.880 That is absolutely false, and in fact, playing cards were 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:13.800 around centuries before the tarot deck came along. Yeah, that's true. Uh. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.920 And people generally think it seems like so many things 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.640 go back to ancient China, but a lot of people 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.400 agree that they were invented in China in the thirteenth 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.480 century and then sort of spread their roots from there. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:32.200 But like you said that, regular playing cards were around 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:37.400 before this and the tarot we're twenty two different designs 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.760 that were eventually added to a deck. And this was 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.840 for playing games like card games. Uh. And it became 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.640 like a much larger deck and all of a sudden 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.400 you could play, you know, with more cards that are different. 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.920 You can play more complex than interesting games. Right, So 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.760 you have China inventing playing cards apparently, it's spreading to Egypt, 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.560 which I had not heard of this UM group. Had 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:05.920 you before the mom Luke Empire? I had not mom 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.360 Luke without an a in the middle. It's not a 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:13.600 Mama Luke right now, just that mom Luke. They were. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.080 They were Muslims who controlled Egypt for about three hundred years, 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.600 from like I think the to the sixteenth centuries maybe, 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:26.520 and they UM somehow got their hands on the playing 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.479 cards that China had invented, and they kind of made 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.880 their own flourishes to it. UM. The suits were kind 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.800 of familiar UM like you might UM you might see today, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.839 kind of especially in the Tarot deck. But one of 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.479 the big differences was polo sticks. That was one of 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.440 the suits because apparently the UM, the people who were 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.760 running the show really liked playing polo. But polo was 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.480 invented in Iran. If I'm not mistaken, is that correct? 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.600 I didn't know that it was the word clue the 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:58.279 other day, very nice, which which cross Chicago Tribune, New 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.760 York Times. Is there any other No, there really isn't. UM. 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.440 I'm sorry a person who writes the Chicago Tribune cross word, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.520 you do a very good job. It's not fair um So, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.360 the mom Luke Empire spread out from Egypt. They they 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.200 they had conquests and I think maybe even trade with 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.360 other places around the Mediterranean. One of the things they 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.360 did was they went to Italy and they brought with 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.159 them their cards, and it seems like in Italy that's 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:30.520 where Tarot was first created. And it wasn't again, not 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.520 created for divination. It was created to make games much 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.560 more interesting. Yeah, I found it really interesting how many 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.840 cultural things were spread through either war, uh in the military, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.279 or you know, I guess you know, oftentimes trade as well. 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.120 But it seems like we talk a lot on the 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.880 show about like someone went to war with something else 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.880 and the people that they were fighting he loved this 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.760 food or this game or this whatever and took it home. Yeah, 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.720 that's how Lincoln Logs came about. Really, I don't think 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.880 it sounds like I don't know about this Lincoln guy, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:11.120 but these logs, right, people are crazy for them, So 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.960 that's they exported. I guess in that sense. Yes, that's 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.039 how Lincoln Logs got over there. So, um I think 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.039 we're gonna cut that last little lame addition to the 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:27.320 joke out later. Um So, when it arrived in in uh, Italy, Chuck, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.680 it was known as try no Fee, which is another 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.080 term for the Italian carnival festivals that you see with 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.719 the masks and everything. But then shortly after that it 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:43.000 changed the names to taroak, which apparently means foolish, stupid, simple, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.400 something like that. And they think that that the name 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:51.479 change happened when they introduced the fool and they by 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.160 introducing the fool card, which is a very well known 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.520 um tarot card as we'll talk about later. Uh, it 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.839 signified like a huge change. They took regular playing cards, 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.279 added twenty two more to them, made them all trump cards, 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.119 and now you had so much more complicated complex games. 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:10.760 And as a matter of fact, they think this is 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.800 where trick taking games came from. Yeah, I mean you 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:18.200 mentioned trump taking cards. That's what I mean. If you've 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.560 never played any trick taking games, do yourself a favor 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:26.120 and learn spades or hearts or something. Sure, j Yeah, Jen, 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.000 Remy counts. I guess, Uh no, it totally counts. I guess. 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.560 I always think of spades. Really, um, I had I 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:37.000 went through a spades phase when I was kind of 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.920 in college. It was kind of early on for some reason. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.880 And oh and then what's the one in the Midwest 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:46.720 that my wife's family always plays, Get us out of here. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.400 That's very funny, uh Yuker Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, my 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.480 parents played too. Of course, idea how it's played, no clue. Well, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.400 I'm fame us in our family for forgetting every single 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.840 year how to play uk and then every Christmas they 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.880 would then, you know, re explain the game. But long 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.000 way of saying, these are all like trick taking games 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.040 where you have, um, you're laying down hands and then 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.520 someone will lay down like a trump card and you 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.840 can like take all those tricks that are on the board. 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.560 And there are all kinds of variations of trick taking games. 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.360 But they're basically saying that, I mean, was Tarrocco the 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.760 original the o G I think so? Yeah. I think 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.120 it originated in Italy and the north of Italy. Um, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.920 and then after that, uh, it's spread to France and 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:40.160 they took the same name Tarok, which in French is 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:45.160 Tarot with the A U X. Obviously we evolved into 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.000 tarot t a R O T from there, right, So 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.040 that's what they think the progression was. But this was 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.160 just for making trick taking games, um interesting or creating 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.160 trick taking games as a matter of fact, and the 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.640 people are parent you still play it. In Europe. I 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.200 think it's super hipster. I'll bet if you're a euro 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:09.280 hipster you probably play the original Arrak or Tarrok show, 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.160 especially in northern Italy. But um, I think also if 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.040 you're just kind of like a normal person too, you 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.680 might you might find it attractive. So it's still being played. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.440 So there's two kinds of taro out there in the world, 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.600 and I say we kind of move on to the 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.400 one that everybody knows over here. Um after an ad break. Hey, 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:49.040 that sounds like a great plan alright. So I think 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.680 when people click on an episode called hall Terror Works, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.240 they're not really interested in hearing about the early origins 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.439 of just another like spades light game. Uh. They want 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.480 to talk about it's spreading cards on the table and 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.880 having someone sit across from them and tell them how 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.120 their day or week or life is going to go. 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:11.240 And that's the divination aspect. Divination has been around a 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.800 long long time. People have been using cards for a 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.640 long long time. It's called cartomancy, and I think the 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:25.959 French basically invented this and like the seventeen hundreds or so, right, Yeah, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.080 and um it was originally they used playing cards. They 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.320 didn't even use the Saro deck. And people still do 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:38.200 cartomancy using regular playing cards. Yeah. Um, so I guess 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.880 to kind of differentiate it, if you're doing taro, that 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.640 would be called tarot ology, and then cartomancy is using 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.000 I guess probably any other kind of cards. And so, 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.840 um you think like, okay, taro is kind of presented 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.840 as like this ancient esoteric knowledge. It's frequently connected to 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:02.280 ancient Egypt or ancient Greece. Um that like there's oracles involved, 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.960 and that it's just kind of um evidence of a 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:10.800 longstanding tradition of mysticism and fortune telling, and that is 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.680 made up. Uh it is. And you had a tone 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.440 in your voice like you're about to yank the rug 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.680 out from us, you know, uh, and yank we are 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.880 because we actually know for sure where this all came from. 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.480 It was invented by a couple of guys, a couple 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.200 of French guys, one couple of dudes, just a couple 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:38.959 of dudes or whatever dude in French might be. Uh. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:43.480 One gentleman was named Antoine court Day. How would you 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:47.560 say that, Gibeline, Yeah, I think that's great, all right. Uh. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.280 He was born in seventeen twenty five. He was a writer, 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:55.040 he's a freemason. He was super as was not a 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.280 lot of people, but some people back then interested in 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.199 the occult and esoteric ideas and things like that. And 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.520 when he was I guess and his uh what would 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.840 that be like forties or fifties, Tara was not super 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.240 popular at the time, And as the story goes, he 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.840 saw some woman that we're playing it, and he looked 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.199 down and, UM, I'm paraphrasing here, but basically said he 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.720 glanced down and recognized that the allegory of these pictures 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.080 on the cards, uh he found were relative to all 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.160 of life, and there were unlimited numbers of combinations to 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.520 combine these cards, and that was sort of the inspiration 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:40.959 of inventing this divination process. Yeah, like he said, oh, 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.920 I've discovered these cards and it's clear that I've uncovered 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:50.000 something here. So Gebelin was a very annoying person. Um, 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:54.079 and he he took a Um, he took that inspiration 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.520 and then went back and reversed engineered everything to support 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.120 the inspiration that he just had, and he did so 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.120 again by just making up a lot of stuff. Um, 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.000 he wrote this thing that was it came out multiple volumes. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:08.920 I get the impression it was a little bit like 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.640 maybe the Paris Quarterly or something like that, or the 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.160 Paris Review Quarterly legitimizes it more than I was thinking. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:24.440 But this, okay, how about the Hoboken Quarterly. But it's 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.679 true though, you know. Um, So he called it the 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.880 primeval World Comma Analyzed and compared to the modern world, 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.000 which seems pretty straightforward. It's fine with me. The thing 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:40.520 is is each volume he just started talking about esoteric stuff. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.480 He wrote essays about whatever was on his mind, and 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.880 he was trying to kind of build up this compendium 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.960 of ancient knowledge that again, this guy was just pulling 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.120 out of thin air. And it wasn't like he was 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.480 the guy who pointed to ancient Egypt and said their 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:04.080 mystery lies. There's there's an esoteric mystery tradition there. He 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.840 wasn't even the original with that. He was just kind 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.120 of playing off of some stuff that was popular at 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.480 the time and really going to town with it. Yeah, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.160 I mean I think, um, the franchise did a lot 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.640 of people saw Egypt as this sort of um mystical, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.960 magical place, uh with you know, for a lot of reasons. 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.640 But he's the one that sort of again didn't invent it, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.040 but borrowed on that idea. In one of these volumes, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.760 he wrote an essay Ontario connecting to Egypt. Uh. And 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.800 then he had his friend, uh Louis Raphael uh Lucresse 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:45.880 de Fael, Count of Mela. That was beautiful. I'm not 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.920 sure how much of that is right, but um, they 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.720 got together as a team, and he was also a 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:53.880 dude that was interested in the occult and stuff like that. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.360 They tended to hang they tended to hang around together, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.400 and so they got together and sort of of made 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.280 up these description of the game and the Tarot deck 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.000 were not the game, but I guess the practice and 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.280 the Tarot deck connecting it to Egypt. Yeah. What was 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.240 pretty cool was that they they, um, they said, you 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.480 know what the tarot deck is, these seventy eight cards. Um, 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.200 I don't know if we said and if we didn't, sorry. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.680 When they added the tarot trump cards to the existing 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.160 deck of cards, it it made seventy eight cards. They 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.800 had fifty six cards and then playing cards um deck 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.760 before added twenty two tarot cards as trump cards, so 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.520 you had a deck of seventy eight. So what um 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:44.960 uh did Gibelin and defoy yell I like you um 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:50.600 said was that these things were actually existing disguised pages 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:55.440 from the Book of Thoth. And it's actually really cool 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.320 if you stop and think about, like along the lines 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.080 of like ghostbuster UM like like sumer Um kind of 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.920 mysticism cool and both if I'm I hope I'm pronouncing 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.920 it correctly. He was a god of ancient Egypt, a 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.560 real one. He was known for um balance in the universe. 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:19.000 He was credited with um creating, if not all knowledge 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:25.080 on Earth, at the very least certain knowledge like law, magic, philosophy, religion, science, writing. 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.120 So he's a good guy. And he also was known 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.960 as an infallible judge. I saw it put somewhere Um. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.000 So he would be perfect to be the one who 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.600 you could use the Book of Thoth to kind of 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:42.120 predetermine the future, because you were basically tapping into thowth 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.760 to say, um, hey, buddy, can you help me out here? 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.280 I need to know the future. Can I sidebar for 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.400 a moment? Yes, please, or what do we call it? 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.040 What approach when we talk about tangents? Yeah, yeah, can 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:59.280 I tangent approach? Uh? You mentioned Ghostbusters. I just wanted 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.640 to point out very fast that we showed my daughter 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.440 the original Ghostbusters for the first time UH last week 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.240 and it was surprisingly like okay for a seven year old. 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.960 The jokes that weren't super appropriate as usual kind of 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.239 go over her head and she loved it. And so 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:23.680 the next night we watched the recent UH sequel. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.240 I saw that, and that movie I think is very 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.760 unfairly piled upon. I don't care. It's not good, and 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.600 maybe it has something to do with watching it with 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.920 my daughter and watching them two days in a row. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.840 But I thought it was quite fun and super super enjoyable. Yeah, 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.040 I would say it's p t. Anderson's like deepest movie. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.199 At the very least, it's most entertaining. I didn't think 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:49.520 it was perfect, and I don't know it was a 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.600 big nostalgia play, but I bought in and we just 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.199 had a great time watching it. So I like a 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.600 lot of fun. It was a little weird that, like 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.720 Egan at the end was like, mmmm, I'm not gonna 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:01.880 say anything, but I'll give you some head nods kind 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:03.720 of thing. I think that they really could have worked 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.439 shop that a little more. Um, sorry for spoiling it 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.240 for everybody, but um that. Other than that, I thought 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.359 it was really engrossing, really cool. I liked all the 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.000 characters because Paul Road, of course, is amazing, so I said, 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.560 go see it too. I think they kept him from 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.120 talking a lot at the end because they didn't want 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.600 to overdo a sort of dodgy uh you know, resurrection 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.399 totally like it could have gone off the rails if 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:33.600 he was like, hey everybody, no, completely for sure, they 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.480 featured they gave him too much screen time then okay, 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.639 so then cut back a little more even totally see that. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.280 That's my take on it. Anyway, back to tarot Um, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.359 I'm all about the new Ghostbusters though, and we're going 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.680 to show her the reboot with that Kristen Wiggan the 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.480 Gang too? What about chew Ghostbusters too? You can't skip 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.280 over that? Yeah, sure you can with Jano Hello, Where's 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.240 the Baby? It had its moments, but I don't know, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.959 even even Bill Murray in the whole cast, we're kind 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:05.040 of like that was a garbage movie. What. Yeah, Ghostbusters 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.080 do was they were not very proud of it. I'm 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.000 gonna have to go back and watch it because I 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:14.160 liked it. Right, Well, maybe we will. Um where were we? 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.399 We were talking about how these guys, the Geblin and 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.440 um his buddy defoy yell um had just basically made 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.160 all this stuff up. And I think we left off 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.200 with how it was actually kind of cool that they 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:28.639 linked it to lost pages from the Book of Both Sure, 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:33.879 so they have now described this uh divination process, and 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.080 it wasn't like it was a huge deal all of 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.840 a sudden and like the latest fad that you know, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.680 caught like wildfire all over the world. Um, it did 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.439 catch on in a pretty big way, but that came 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.840 a little bit later. But what is clear is that 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.280 all of these sort of stories that you hear about 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.200 Tarot was um of like the origins of it. And 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.840 then there's some pretty fanciful stories written up about you know, 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.240 uh punks that created this game and these decks were 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.200 found in ruined temples and stuff like that. Like all 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.720 of that just seems to literally have been made up 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.800 to create kind of a fun back story. Yeah, And 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.800 I mean you can kind of get the idea like 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:15.879 this is pretty cool stuff, and like a bunch of 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.480 people took a crack at it. Um eliphas Levi, who 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.640 created Baffa met Our buddy Um, he contributed to it, said, 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.720 this is actually has to do with Kabbala, the Jewish mysticism. 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.960 Paul christian Um, who I can't remember what his original 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:33.960 name was, he added to it too, but he was 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.479 a very famous mystic um or occult person, and like 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:41.480 that whole spiritualism. Remember we did a whole episode on that. 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:47.240 Those same people interested in in mediumship and the occult 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.960 and all that just basically added to this. They'd be like, 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.280 also this and also that it was just a lot 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.560 of people who are out of their minds contributing to 0:20:54.640 --> 0:21:01.360 this really neat totally made up mythology rounding tarot cards. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.639 And then finally Chuck, we arrive at Alistair Crowley. Yeah, 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.720 all roads point till old a c. I guess if 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.359 you listen to that episode and and got through my 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.320 sort of sneering through the whole thing, you will remember 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.800 the gold the Temple of the Hermetic Order of the 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:23.879 Golden Dawn, which was in London, and this was a 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.200 group that Crowley was was he the leader of or 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.280 just a he staged a coup if I'm not mistaken, 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.320 and they ended up breaking up UM rather than just 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.959 let him lead, all right, that that sounds familiar. So 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.200 the breakup led to different factions in different groups sort 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.280 of splintering off, and one of which was led by 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.200 someone named A. E. Waite. Uh. And this is where 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.639 the story UM kind of takes Taro to the uh 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.399 to the forefront of popularity. UM. In nineteen ten eight 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:01.399 e Waite published the pictorial Key to the Tarot and Uh, 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.760 this is where the most famous deck, like the deck 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.000 that you would probably buy today in the shopping mall, 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:12.920 comes from A. E. Wait Uh getting together with Pamela 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.920 Coleman Smith, who I believe was the artist, and this, 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:18.600 you know, kind of change to the deck up and 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.160 this is this became sort of the most popular one, 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.120 I believe in early nineteen hundred, nineteen o nine or so, 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:28.760 and it's still the most popular, Yeah, I mean far 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:31.600 and away, especially in the United States, called the um 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.280 Wait Smith deck or the Ritter Weight because I think 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:39.120 Ritter published it, and it's it's if you saw you'd 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:40.920 be like, oh, yeah, that's that's a tarot deck. That's 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.800 what I think of it as it's this beautiful art 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:49.000 deco UM illustrations. UM that like if you, if you again, 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.040 if you just think of a tarot card, like they're 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:56.200 probably imagining a um Waite Smith tarot card because Pamela 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.199 Coleman Smith just nailed it. I mean, this is nineteen 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.960 o nine and there's a lot of different decks that 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.240 have the same thing, but they're just drawing differently or whatever. 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:09.120 They're still publishing this um a hundred years plus later. 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:11.800 It was just that well done. Yeah, and I think 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:13.800 they also, um, I don't know if it was to 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:15.919 make it more popular or not, but there was a 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:19.480 lot of Christian imagery on previous decks and they kind 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.280 of toned those down a little bit for this deck, 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:23.920 Like they said, hey, why don't we get the pope 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:28.600 off of their and include some cool like ancient Grecian 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:32.159 priest instead. Uh. Maybe it was just to make it 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.720 a little more sort of mysterious. I think so for sure, 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:39.040 but also not they didn't want to scare off the occultists, 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.719 you know, they didn't want it to poppy, right. They 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:47.000 also there was a papist to papists um, she became 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.600 the high priestess Um. But and it also followed a 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.639 lot of tradition to I think the moon card um 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:58.080 has been generally unchanged for like five hundred years. It's 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:02.560 still still contains the same baffling imagery that it always did. 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.480 The moon card means um. It means illusion and deception 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.119 and that things are not as they appear, and so, 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.240 of course, to demonstrate that and get it across, the 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.760 moon card has a moon um. It also has a 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:17.359 path that leads off into the distance. Animal on either 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.760 side of the card to represent two sides of human nature. 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.399