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Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have a special guest.

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Speaker 1: His name is Eldon Scott, and he is president of

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Speaker 1: Urban Space, which is the New York branch of a

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Speaker 1: fascinating company that began life in London, England. If you

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Speaker 1: have gone to any of the new and very hip

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Speaker 1: food courts around New York City, I'm partial to the

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Speaker 1: one on Vanderbilt and but they're all over Manhattan, you

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Speaker 1: will have experienced some of Urban Spaces work. They are

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Speaker 1: just really really good at totally recreating the concept of

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Speaker 1: a food court. You know, when I think of food courts,

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Speaker 1: I think of the terrible mall based um, really awful

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Speaker 1: chain foods. What they do is they go out and

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Speaker 1: find the most interesting chefs, entrepreneurs hip places in Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: and they bring them to Manhattan as food stalls, and

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Speaker 1: and some of them are just The food is fantastic.

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Speaker 1: The vibe and the energy in these places are just amazing.

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Speaker 1: I strongly suggest that if you're anywhere near New York

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Speaker 1: City and have an opportunity to try one of these places,

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Speaker 1: you really like it. They also do all of the

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Speaker 1: holiday uh sales um temporary spaces that pop up in

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Speaker 1: places like Brian Park and Grand Central Station. Uh. Again,

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Speaker 1: no chains, just unique one off merchants and entrepreneurs and designers.

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Speaker 1: Really really interesting thing. If you are at all interested

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Speaker 1: in food and how various chefs become popular, uh, and

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Speaker 1: about the future of how food is going to be

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Speaker 1: served in places like conference facilities, malls, etcetera, then this

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Speaker 1: is something you actually absolutely have to listen to. With

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Speaker 1: no further ado. My conversation with Eldon Scott. My special

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Speaker 1: guest this week is Elden Scott. He is the president

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Speaker 1: and CEO of urban Space, a unique real estate, dining

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Speaker 1: and retail establishment that given how difficult retail has been

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Speaker 1: these days, I thought it would be nice to bring

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Speaker 1: someone in who has achieved a high degree of success

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Speaker 1: in retailing and restaurateuring. Uh. Eldon went to undergraduate at

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Speaker 1: Yale University. He then moved on to the London School

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Speaker 1: of Economics before joining Urban Space in London. The London

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Speaker 1: Urban Space was founded in nineteen seventy by Eric Reynolds,

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Speaker 1: where it has since developed more than fifty sites, focusing

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Speaker 1: on artisanal and casual food and unique holiday fairs in

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Speaker 1: Eldon left London for New York City, where he opens

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Speaker 1: Urban Space, the first one in America, focusing on the

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Speaker 1: holiday fair in Grand Central. Now, Urban Space has a

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Speaker 1: number of locations in New York uh the Vanderbilt Market,

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Speaker 1: five seventy Les, Times Square, Madison Square, Broadway Bites, the

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Speaker 1: Garment District. They also run a number of different holiday

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Speaker 1: fairs Grand Central Station, Brian Park, Union Square, Columbus Circle.

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Speaker 1: And the company is about to take this unique business

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Speaker 1: model national. Eldon Scott, welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much so so I hope I did that justice in

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Speaker 1: explaining sort of what what urban spaces. It's a fairly

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Speaker 1: unique model. Before we get into the details of it,

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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about your background. Um, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned you're a boarding school kid. You end up going

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Speaker 1: to Yale and then London School of Economics led you

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Speaker 1: to Urban Space in London after you got out of

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Speaker 1: ls A. You know, I've always lived in residential types

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Speaker 1: of communities through boarding school and then at Yale, and

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Speaker 1: you know, these these great colleges, we have wonderful dining

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Speaker 1: halls and one of the hearts of universities are these

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Speaker 1: dining halls. So I've always finished in this idea of

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Speaker 1: community and meeting other people around food and in communal

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Speaker 1: seating as well. So I think there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of inspiration from those experiences that I took with me

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Speaker 1: to London. So did you go straight to urban space

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Speaker 1: out of London School of Economics or were there any

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Speaker 1: Um My background is urban planning in real estate, so

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Speaker 1: I worked in the coch Administration in the Department of

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Speaker 1: City Planning for a while. It's my first job new Haven,

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Speaker 1: New York City urban Planning. Then Lesse studied urban planning

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Speaker 1: and economics, and then I worked for Savills, which is

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Speaker 1: a property company in London. So I had some traditional

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Speaker 1: real estate and planning background. So then how did you

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Speaker 1: still belong to urban space? Well, you know, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of other young people on London, I was going

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Speaker 1: up to Camden Locke on the weekends, which was a

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Speaker 1: great place if you haven't been there, it's it's north

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Speaker 1: side of London and it's a fantastic, very busy spot.

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Speaker 1: And I was talking to my professor from LC one

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Speaker 1: day and I was like, I love this place, Camden

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Speaker 1: lock I gotta meet Eric Reynolds. He's a friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: so I met Eric and shortly thereafter I left Savage

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Speaker 1: and started working with him at Urban Space. So he

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Speaker 1: set up Urban Space in the UK in nine seventy.

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Speaker 1: When when this was first brought to the four there,

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Speaker 1: did they have to raise capital or did it just

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Speaker 1: sort of start small and and go from there. It

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Speaker 1: started the small and went from there. Having said that,

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Speaker 1: there were a couple of investors that Eric brought in

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Speaker 1: early on with Camden Locke. I mean Camden grew to

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Speaker 1: become the third or fourth biggest visitor destination in London

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Speaker 1: and was a real phenomenon at the time because you

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Speaker 1: have to remember in the seventies there were trading laws.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't open on Sundays UM, but you could open

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Speaker 1: markets on Sundays. So it was one of the first,

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Speaker 1: if not the first large private market to open in

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Speaker 1: London UM at that time. And it just really drew

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Speaker 1: and it got a lot of the youth culture coming down.

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Speaker 1: So that was a regulatory loophole. You couldn't have regular

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Speaker 1: retail open, but open air marketplace was allowed to run exactly.

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Speaker 1: And the same question in the United States. You come

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Speaker 1: here with the intention of setting up urban Space, new York.

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Speaker 1: Did you have to raise capital or by that time

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Speaker 1: was there enough capital from London. It was already had

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Speaker 1: enough capital by that time to to get going, So

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Speaker 1: we just applied the knowledge experience we had. I was

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Speaker 1: wanting to bring it to New York for a long

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Speaker 1: time because I was, you know, living in London, traveling

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Speaker 1: to a lot of European capitals, and it was such

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Speaker 1: a great market culture in Europe that I knew there

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Speaker 1: was something would be great in the United States. So

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Speaker 1: I wanted to bring it back. So I have been

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Speaker 1: writing about and talking about the death of retail for

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Speaker 1: it seems like a decade, if not longer. And part

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Speaker 1: of retail has to do with the the dining experience,

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Speaker 1: the traditional mall in America, it's a handful of chains.

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Speaker 1: It's a handful of well known, nothing unique, nothing special.

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Speaker 1: Are we at the edge of the death of the

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Speaker 1: food court? Is that going the way of the Dodo Bird?

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're the it's the death of the

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Speaker 1: food court. I think that the food hall is a

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Speaker 1: variation on an old theme and it's it's a new segment,

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Speaker 1: if you will. But I think there's still a lot

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Speaker 1: of other concepts which are gonna, you know, continue to

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Speaker 1: thrive as well. There's gonna be more food options, not less,

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Speaker 1: so the food court might be replaced with a food

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Speaker 1: hall or something a little more hip or a little

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Speaker 1: more innovative. Is that a fair assessment. The main difference

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Speaker 1: really is that the food hall has generally speaking, more

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Speaker 1: local and chef driven concepts. So let's talk about that

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I go to the one on Vanderbilt

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Speaker 1: all the time. I'm a huge fan of Delaney Chicken.

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Speaker 1: It's the greatest chicken sandwich I've ever had. Uh. Mr

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Speaker 1: Byng is just absolutely unique and um just a favorite.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a shop called Dough which does the

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Speaker 1: biggest donuts I've ever seen in my life, and they're

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Speaker 1: crazy delicious. Um, as are everything I've tasted. This is

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Speaker 1: a completely different approach to feeding people. It's not like

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Speaker 1: in New York you walk into a Delhi and there's

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Speaker 1: ninety seven different serving stations and you can get anything

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Speaker 1: from Medio, compizza or whatever. This is the opposite of that.

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Speaker 1: This is very specific artisanal foods. It's it's a bottom

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Speaker 1: up um business model versus a top down business model.

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Speaker 1: So instead of a large restaurant company that's got a

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Speaker 1: you know, senior management, and they're planning out what the

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Speaker 1: menus are going to be. We're really, we're truly market operators.

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Speaker 1: So we go to the market and we try to

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Speaker 1: find out what the coolest concepts are and we bring

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Speaker 1: them into one facility. You know, markets are two thousand

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Speaker 1: years old and people have had that kind of experience

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Speaker 1: where you can match consumers and vendors in the central

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Speaker 1: place and the central places the market operator and that's

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Speaker 1: what we are. So one analogy we give is it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit like an artificial reef. So if you

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Speaker 1: ever been snorkeling, you go out, you find a good area,

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Speaker 1: you drop down a bunch of old tires and old

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Speaker 1: cinder blocks, but the real color or the fish that

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Speaker 1: are coming. So it's not the architecture, it's not it's

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Speaker 1: not all the planning per se. It's just bringing together

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Speaker 1: market forces. Is bringing together the best of other businesses

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Speaker 1: and putting them together. I read an interesting report recently

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Speaker 1: from Kushman and Wakefield. They pointed out New York City

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Speaker 1: has twenty five or so active permanent food halls with

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Speaker 1: another dozen or so planned, but nationwide they think the

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Speaker 1: number of these food holes will hit three hundred is that?

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Speaker 1: Is that a real number? Three hundred foot holes around

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Speaker 1: the country rate. It's funny. I was talking to the

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Speaker 1: guys that Kushman a couple of weeks ago, and we

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Speaker 1: actually think it's probably much higher than that, really because

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Speaker 1: not all the things that are in the pipeline or

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Speaker 1: even being discussed. Um, I think there's gonna be too

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Speaker 1: much of it. It's gonna probably be some overbuilding and well,

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Speaker 1: but that happens in every every hot new trends eventually

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Speaker 1: reaches saturation and then it's too much for and that

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Speaker 1: that's true whether we're talking about fried chicken sandwiches or

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Speaker 1: man buns. At a certain point, it just it just

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Speaker 1: goes too far. So we mentioned Delaney Chicken and some

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Speaker 1: of some of my other favorites. I have to ask you,

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Speaker 1: how do you source vendors every You just opened up

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Speaker 1: one on Lexington Avenue five seventy where Mr Kay's used

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Speaker 1: to be. You know that restaurant for a million years,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a completely different set of hip, funky restaurants.

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Speaker 1: How do you guys consistently find such interesting vendors to

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Speaker 1: sell such unique food. We have a we have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an advantage because we have our own

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Speaker 1: farm League set up, so we have these pop up

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Speaker 1: markets that we've been doing for years all around the city.

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Speaker 1: So we're in Madison Square, We're in we're in Bryant

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Speaker 1: Park in Square, and this is around the holidays. Usually

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Speaker 1: last couple of months is too open. Right now, Um

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Speaker 1: Square and Herald Square their food only markets. So what

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Speaker 1: we do is we bring people in and we try

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Speaker 1: them out. Because you know, you can have a great food,

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Speaker 1: you can be a great operator. You can be a

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Speaker 1: super highly followed chef. But we're looking for people that

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Speaker 1: are not just don't just have a great following, they're

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Speaker 1: also really good operators. You can also be a great

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Speaker 1: chef and not how to know how to cook in volume.

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Speaker 1: There's a big leap it takes to go from having

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Speaker 1: a tasty item to be able to serve a thousand

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Speaker 1: of those items pretty quickly. And I will tell listeners,

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Speaker 1: if you walk over to the Vanderbilt one, it's on

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Speaker 1: forty Street in Vanderbilt. At five to twelve, you can

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Speaker 1: walk in and walk into any vendor and get whatever

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Speaker 1: you want. At five after twelve, there's it's just flooded

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Speaker 1: with people, especially millennials and young people, and then after

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Speaker 1: two thirty again it empties out. That's got to be

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Speaker 1: a challenge to manage that sort of crush for any

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Speaker 1: chef or restaurant um operator. Yeah, and we're kind of

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Speaker 1: partner with the chefs in the space to help give

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Speaker 1: them the infrastructure that they need. Sometimes they like more infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: more storage, etcetera, etcetera. UM. But the ones that figure

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Speaker 1: it out do really well, and luckily not too many don't.

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Speaker 1: But I think that they kind of learned from each other,

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Speaker 1: so they'll look down the I almost say, hey, why

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Speaker 1: is that guy cranking it? Why is this line moving?

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Speaker 1: And they'll start to learn. But having said that, it's

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Speaker 1: there's a big skilled jump from being a good chef

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Speaker 1: to really producing quality and volume. So you you talked about, um,

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Speaker 1: how trendy. A lot of this is I think your

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Speaker 1: vendors are the most on trend foods in town. Not

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Speaker 1: surprised that you. The new place has a Raman specialists.

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Speaker 1: There's a ton of niche sort of foods. It's not

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Speaker 1: just oh I'm going to open a Chinese food. Mr.

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Speaker 1: Byng is a perfect example. It's a very specific niche.

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Speaker 1: So my question is how intense is the competition for people, um,

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Speaker 1: for chefs and others who want into the next urban

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Speaker 1: space market, and how do you make that that decision

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Speaker 1: This person is good, this person um may not be

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Speaker 1: an excellent fit. It's competitive because they're great locations and

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Speaker 1: the chefs want to be in those locations. So what

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Speaker 1: we do is we have a separate department that does leasing,

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Speaker 1: and we're looking at sales data from our other markets

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Speaker 1: are pop up markets, and if we see something that

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Speaker 1: looks like it's doing really well, we let the public decide.

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Speaker 1: We don't tell us. We all should read social media

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, and then all the

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Speaker 1: senior people will go to that restaurant and we'll see

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Speaker 1: what we like about the food, about the menu, about

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Speaker 1: the environment, about the service, and will make sure that

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Speaker 1: there's a whole list of things will look at to

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Speaker 1: make sure it's the best vendor in that sector. So

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Speaker 1: you mentioned you track sales and stuff. What metrics do

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Speaker 1: you look at to determine if a given space is

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Speaker 1: meeting your expectations or if a given vendor is being successful.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of different metrics you can

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Speaker 1: look at at the end of the day, it's sales

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Speaker 1: sales volume. Well, what other metrics would you even consider?

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Speaker 1: Obviously volume is um important, but is it consistent volume?

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Speaker 1: You could I've seen some days. Well, it's different day parts,

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Speaker 1: you know. You know, some vendors are going to be

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Speaker 1: better at lunch. I'm gonna do better after work. You know.

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Speaker 1: If we want to have a few things that will

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Speaker 1: work for for breakfast, so we will put someone in

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Speaker 1: with the lower sales volume, just because it's filling a

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Speaker 1: niche that we need. So there's it's it's science and art.

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Speaker 1: It's it's all mixed again to the mix. And I

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Speaker 1: first became familiar with the concept of a food haul

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Speaker 1: years ago when Italy opens up UM, and I have

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Speaker 1: my favorite Italian places. So I'm probably not the ideal

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Speaker 1: person to talk to about Italy because I have my

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Speaker 1: other favorite pasta places and favorite um pizza places. But

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Speaker 1: what did you think of when you saw a concept

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Speaker 1: like Italy, uh come into play. It's a great model.

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Speaker 1: It's essentially a more top down model. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are some sub tenants in there, but it's primarily more

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Speaker 1: of a planned uh you know, food concept with stations. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because we had our first all food pop

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Speaker 1: up market at Madison Square outside of the first Italy,

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Speaker 1: and I remember at that time people saying, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: really great, but you know, outside as an actual market.

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Speaker 1: From the perspective of individual vendors and entrepreneurs, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going to meet the entrepreneur at in Italy,

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Speaker 1: but you're very well going to meet the entrepreneur or

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Speaker 1: the chef at one of the food halls of one

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Speaker 1: of the food markets. I one one day my wife

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Speaker 1: had heard me talk about Mr Bing for forever, and

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Speaker 1: she was here for a show and it was four

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Speaker 1: in the afternoon, so I said, hey, it's not crowded,

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Speaker 1: let's walk over there and grab a Mr Bing and

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Speaker 1: person who built it was there. We had a whole conversation. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I went to school in China and I studied and

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Speaker 1: we always love this street vendor and there was nothing

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Speaker 1: like it here in the States. And this worked out perfectly,

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Speaker 1: which which leads to a question, given that there are

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Speaker 1: so many different restaurants in New York, Um, can these

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Speaker 1: little pop ups compete with the restaurant? Do they have

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Speaker 1: the ability to go toe tootell with someone who's there,

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Speaker 1: who's going to see people or is this a totally

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Speaker 1: different market. I mean, obviously there's some crossover, but it's

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Speaker 1: a different market. We're not doing full service. If you

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Speaker 1: want to have a great business lunch with five people

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Speaker 1: and you want to have a reservation and waiter service,

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Speaker 1: you're probably not gonna go to a food hall. But

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Speaker 1: if you're okay with a little more bustling environment for

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Speaker 1: a business lunert sometimes people are, then you know that's

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Speaker 1: where you might want to go. And do you think

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Speaker 1: of urban Space as a real estate play or is

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Speaker 1: it a restaurant play? Everyone asked it set it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit both. Were really a real estate company from

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Speaker 1: the perspective that we acquire property and we sub lease property,

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Speaker 1: but we also act like an FMP brand, and we

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Speaker 1: also see ourselves as more of a brand than most

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Speaker 1: real estate companies would. I was trying to explain urban

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Speaker 1: Space to a friend who's not from New York but

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Speaker 1: understands we work, and I said, it's we work for

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Speaker 1: food and they kind of got that. Let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the holiday fairs, because that's how I

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Speaker 1: first discovered UM who you folks were who Urban space was? Um?

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Speaker 1: Grand Central Station has a giant holiday fair every holiday season,

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Speaker 1: Brian Park, you guys take over the park, Union Square

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Speaker 1: Holiday Market Columbus Square Holiday Market for many years every

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Speaker 1: holiday I got my wife a gift from Deborah Armstrong,

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Speaker 1: who was an artisan and jewelry designer. How did the

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Speaker 1: concept of these pop up temporary holiday fairs come about? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I came back from London and I was

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Speaker 1: I was used to go into these Chris Kindall's markets

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Speaker 1: in which are throughout Europe, and we didn't really have

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Speaker 1: a strong tradition of those in the States. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: was gosh, I don't know. In nineties, late nineties. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I first approached Grand Central Terminal and they just

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Speaker 1: renovated the main waiting room. This is going back a

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Speaker 1: lot of years. And they said, well, may it may

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Speaker 1: not work, but give it a shot. So we did.

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Speaker 1: You wasn't like years of haggling and negotiating. It was

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Speaker 1: just you have this empty space, I'd like to use

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Speaker 1: it for a holiday fair. It will generate revenue for

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Speaker 1: the for the station. How does that sound? And that? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Sure it was a test at first, you know, later on,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot more negotiating, haggling. You're aware that

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Speaker 1: that is not the usual way stuff gets done in

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Speaker 1: in New York City. Well, you know, there weren't a

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Speaker 1: lot of great users of public spaces back in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: You know, there were a lot of as many concepts.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot more great concept there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: great street food today there wasn't back then. So people

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Speaker 1: were looking for things like this, and Grand Central Station

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Speaker 1: was was at full The renovation finished not that long ago,

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Speaker 1: less than a ten years ago, the full full renovation.

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Speaker 1: The main the main part of that. This was just

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Speaker 1: the south waiting room. Is that the waiting room, and

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Speaker 1: then we moved it shortly thereafter to an outdoor uh

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Speaker 1: situation at Union Square, so that was a little bit larger.

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Speaker 1: And so when I lived on Lexington Avenue, we would

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Speaker 1: have a street fair every year, and it was very

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Speaker 1: quickly became boring and repetitive. It was the same junk

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Speaker 1: tube socks and just regular commercial stuff. Why have the

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Speaker 1: street fairs failed where your holiday fairs seemed to be

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Speaker 1: very successful and thrive every year. It's about the quality

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Speaker 1: of the product and the curation of the product. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of what we do as the operator is

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Speaker 1: curation and storytelling because we're trying to find vendors that

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Speaker 1: our entrepreneurs from New Yorker sometimes beyond you or and

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Speaker 1: have a real story and a real craft or something

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Speaker 1: to bring to the consumer. So let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: numbers behind that. I read somewhere about the vendors are

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Speaker 1: local for meither New York or the surrounding areas, and

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Speaker 1: are international. Is that more or less accurate something like that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, we we've had a guy forever who came

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Speaker 1: from comes from Colorado. Once a year he makes candles,

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Speaker 1: loads up his van, comes to New York. So New

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Speaker 1: York is known as a place that the hallidays, where

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Speaker 1: you can sell products, and then you will. I also

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Speaker 1: read that you have an unusually high percentage of women

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Speaker 1: and minority vendors. Is that right, that's a huge number. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's this reflective of the entrepreneurial community and

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Speaker 1: getting access to, you know, great real estate so they

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Speaker 1: can sell. So that's it's an outcome of what's out

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Speaker 1: there in the marketplace. And let me give you a

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Speaker 1: quote of yours and get a comment, because I love

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Speaker 1: this perspective. Most retail in America is top down, where

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Speaker 1: you have national chains that have bios who decide what

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Speaker 1: fashions are and distribute down to stores our models. The opposite,

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Speaker 1: we're dealing almost exclusively with small independent businesses, not national chains.

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Speaker 1: Is that the difference between a marketplace and a regular

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Speaker 1: sort of retailer. Yeah, I mean that's what we offer

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Speaker 1: over going to a national store. UH and the way

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Speaker 1: our buying gets done. Obviously we're curating, we're meeting, we're

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Speaker 1: looking at product, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: we're looking at their UH, their sales and their behavior

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Speaker 1: and how the consumer likes their product, and that's how

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Speaker 1: we release our change for the next year. So we're

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Speaker 1: really listening to the marketplace. It's a market what's what's

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Speaker 1: the turnover, like how many people are repeat vendors and

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Speaker 1: how many people are fresh faces. We have turnover every year,

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Speaker 1: sometimes not because of the products. Sometimes people move on,

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00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: they get they get larger. UM the Body Shop, which

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Speaker 1: became a major international change, UM had a stall a

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Speaker 1: canden Lock in London in the nineteen seventies. Um she

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Speaker 1: started with a table selling potions. She came from the Midlands,

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Speaker 1: but that was their first London outlets. Sou Saban, which

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Speaker 1: is a pretty big retailer now started with with with

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Speaker 1: stalls and some of the markets, so some of them

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Speaker 1: grow out of it. That's amazing. I mentioned, um your

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Speaker 1: background having worked with the urban space in London, and

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Speaker 1: I read recently that you were looking at Chicago and

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Speaker 1: the West coast. How big do you think the concept

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Speaker 1: of food halls and gift fares can get nationally? Where

399
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Speaker 1: can this go? Certainly can go further? How much? I

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Speaker 1: don't have the answer to. There's gonna be a lot

401
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: of it coming because we're not the only ones going

402
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Speaker 1: into Chicago, going to other cities, so it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see who are your competitors, Oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: anything from other restaurateurs that are doing multiple these concepts,

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Speaker 1: or landlords who are putting things in their buildings. So

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00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: it's really coming from multiple directions. So there's a building.

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Speaker 1: I want to say it's thirty eighth and Broadway. Since

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Speaker 1: you brought this up, and the interesting thing they did

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Speaker 1: with the ground floor is every real estate tenant is

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Speaker 1: a fairly hip new restaurant. I can't say I've ever

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Speaker 1: seen that before. It's a relatively new building. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you're familiar with that that area, Is that

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Speaker 1: the sort of concept that that might we might see

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Speaker 1: more of. Are those potential competitors out there or there's

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Speaker 1: something that you do. Sure, we would not normally just

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Speaker 1: put a bunch of retailers on a street like that,

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Speaker 1: because we're more interested in the community aspect of what

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Speaker 1: a food hall is. And I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the compelling things about food halls, is that the interaction

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Speaker 1: between all the various people all in one place at

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Speaker 1: one time. You know, they I think since two at

422
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Speaker 1: least people have been talking about locals the new luxury,

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00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: food is the new fashion, and everyone the buzzword is authenticity.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've been dealing with authenticity since the seventies.

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Speaker 1: And we started this because we were always working with

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Speaker 1: local small businesses. UM. For many years we couldn't we

427
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: weren't considered a major tenant by landlords because they were

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Speaker 1: looking for national credit. Now everyone's looking for authenticity, So

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Speaker 1: you know that the tide has changed. Suddenly, it's inverted,

430
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 1: it's it's different than it was. So so speaking of

431
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: the beginning of nineteen seventies, UM, the person who founded

432
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: Every Space in London in nineteen seventy was Eric Reynolds,

433
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: who sort of used the catchphrase lighter, quicker, cheaper um.

434
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: Is that still the watchword? And is that how you

435
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: approach setting up a new space? And does the economy

436
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: itself make a difference in how you operate? Is the

437
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 1: economy only makes a difference if humors are buying our products,

438
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: So we're not as impacted by interest rates or other fluctuations.

439
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: We're just, you know, we're interested in our people buying

440
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: our product. I mean, outside of the Great Recession when

441
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: things were horrific, the economy gets better, it gets what

442
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: a little worse? Are you guys? Fairly recession proof short

443
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: of a near depression in UM in two thousand and

444
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: eight when things were a little rough, I was hiding

445
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: under my desk along with everyone else, and we had

446
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: a holiday market at Union Square to put on, so, uh,

447
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, we came out and it turns out people

448
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: came out of the woodwork. They wanted to be in

449
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: the parks, they wanted to be outside, they wanted to

450
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: be with other people. And that's when we first really

451
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: started to think in that people are looking for human experience,

452
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: like an authentic experience, and our sales were up so

453
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: from your sales were up in two eight. Yes, that's astonishing,

454
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: but we weren't selling items for selling items, so the

455
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: thought processes and they're staying away from expensive stores and

456
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: going to the fairs where they can still find something

457
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: a little unique and interesting but much more reasonably priced,

458
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: and looking for experience and connection. And I think that's

459
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: one of the things that we're able to offer very

460
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,959
Speaker 1: very different than a retail store experiences when you're actually

461
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: interacting with not just a vendor, but the entrepreneur who

462
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: may be the designer or the builder of whatever that

463
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: particular good he is that's being sold. Yeah. Yeah, And

464
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of where the letter cricker cheaper

465
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: comes from, is that, you know, we're setting up the

466
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: rough space, um, but we're looking to the vendor to

467
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: really brand themselves within the parameters of what we give them.

468
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: So that's you know, people ask us how you can

469
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: do these things in about four or five days as

470
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: long it takes us to put these out, and it's

471
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: because it's you know, many hands to make small work. Right.

472
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: So a previous guest was Dan Biederman. He was the

473
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: person who helped design Brian Square Park in an number

474
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: of other public private projects, and one of the things

475
00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: that stood out from that conversation was he else programming

476
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: was the key to making a space successful, that you

477
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: had to bring people in, you had to give them

478
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,239
Speaker 1: something to do. And it reminds me a little bit

479
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: of what you're describing, which is the community space, the interaction,

480
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: the experience, not just buying a sandwich or buying a widget,

481
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: but the whole overall experience. Is that a fair statement? Sure?

482
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: I mean what what Dan did with Brian Park was

483
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: amazing from where that started years ago, right for people

484
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: who may not be familiar, Brian Park was right west

485
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: of the New York Public Library. It was a den

486
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: of iniquity, of drug sales and muggings and just terrible.

487
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: And it's now one of the great jewels of Manhattan.

488
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: It really is, and it's actually become a great food

489
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: area as well. Um. So I think that making public

490
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: spaces better is very clearly adds to value in and

491
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: what's happening around those spaces. So I think programming is

492
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: part of that. So one of the questions I wanted

493
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: to get to before UM had to do with UM

494
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: in Paris and in London. I've seen them the gift

495
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: fares as a permanent not just to pop up UM location,

496
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: and I read also Tokyo they're a permanent holiday fairs,

497
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: not temporary holiday affairs. Is that sort of experiences that?

498
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: Can that work in New York? And can that work

499
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: in the United States? Or is that a little more

500
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: continental than the American palette my we have for example,

501
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: candid Lock, which was an urban space project, is a

502
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: year round marketplace UM. I think it's hard to set

503
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: those things up because to get the density and an

504
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: urban center to do that at a real estate value

505
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I haven't seen it very often, so

506
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why I've done it. Do

507
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: any plans on trying that in the US? Or is

508
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: that really best left to the Europeans? I think it's

509
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: it's not where the trend is right now? Well, where

510
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: is the trend? What? What do you see as the

511
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: next offshoot? It's all food for us, It's it's food.

512
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: It's primarily food. Why is that is food the new entertainment?

513
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: Is that because it's it's something that people need every

514
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: day and it's a way to bring people together in

515
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: a communal experience, and it's a way to connect really

516
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: creative young businesses UM with consumers in a way that's

517
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: more exciting than things that they've had in the past.

518
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: So I have to ask you about urban space itself. Um,

519
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: when you started in ninety New York, how many people

520
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: were working with you here in in in the United States?

521
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: Over year one was just a couple of people, right,

522
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: And what have you expanded to? How many people are

523
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: in urban Space today? We're probably in the head office

524
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: and and what's the relationship with the original London office

525
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: is that still ongoing? Oh yeah, partners. Eric serves on

526
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: our board and has an interest in our company. So

527
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about trends that are happening in London,

528
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: trends that are happening in New York and in you know,

529
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: compared notes, so which really you know, I know, how

530
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: fashion trends move Paris, Milan, New York and then eventually

531
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: makes its way west. What direction our food trends going.

532
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: I was just in the West Loop of Chicago and

533
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: I was struck by how much it reminded me of Brooklyn.

534
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: Um not what I expected to see and UM and

535
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: for people who may not be familiar with that part

536
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: of Chicago, this was rail tracks and was to die

537
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: for a long time until I want to say sometime

538
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: in the mid nineties, maybe it was Oprah Winfrey set

539
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: up um Harpo Studios there, which is our production company,

540
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: and that started in renaissance there and now it's just

541
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: full blown. It reminds me of Hudson Jord's UM here

542
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: in New York. It's just not cranes everywhere, lots and

543
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: lots of buildings. Is a big Google office there. What

544
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: direction do food trends move? Are you seeing this go

545
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 1: from you're all to hear vice versa all directions? It's

546
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of crazy. I think that it's

547
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: something that's bubbling up UM globally. You know. I was

548
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: speaking with UM, the head of the World Food Street

549
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: Street Food Congress, just last week, and we think we

550
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of food halls going on here, well

551
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: in in in Asia and in Singapore. It's it's much

552
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: beyond what we have here. And this is something that

553
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: that is global and that's really more of a cultural tradition.

554
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: Their food stalls and that sort of public communal eating

555
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: experience seems to be have a much longer history than

556
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: we have in the United States. It does, but you

557
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: you still have, uh i'd say, more chef driven concepts

558
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: even within those contexts, kind of growing up out of

559
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: out of the of those street markets. Really that that

560
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: that's quite fastenathing. We have been speaking with Eldon Scott

561
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: of Urban Space. Be sure and check out my daily column.

562
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: You can find that on Bloomberg View dot com. Follow

563
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at rid Holts. We love your comments,

564
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast

565
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening to

566
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: Master's in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast, Eldon,

567
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this. I am a

568
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: huge fan of what you guys do. And one day

569
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 1: I was online at Delaney Chicken and looking around, and

570
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: I said, somebody has to be behind this. This sort

571
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: of thing doesn't just spring up fully developed on its own.

572
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: And I started doing a little bit of research and

573
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: eventually reached out to Urban Space, and and here we are.

574
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: I have to ask you a couple of questions about

575
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: your career because a lot of the folks I speak

576
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: to have followed a very specific career path. They went

577
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: to college, they went for an m b A, they

578
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: got a job at a big firm, and then they

579
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: went to a boutique and then they launched the run shop.

580
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: There's a fairly clear path. I think what you did

581
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: is fairly unique. There aren't all that many holiday fair

582
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: slash food halls around, so there can't be that many

583
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: businesses doing this, and therefore there can't be that many

584
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: people with your career path. When when you first accepted

585
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: the gig, did you realize you were taking such a

586
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: non traditional career path in in real estate and urban planning.

587
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: I was young enough so I didn't realize what career

588
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: I was giving up. I just thought it was exciting.

589
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to do it, and my background was really

590
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: more urban planning architecture with some real estate, so to

591
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: me it was a new brainer to get involved with

592
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: Camdon Locke, which was which was a very exciting place

593
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: to be and what was the business like in London?

594
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: Had I know that over the forty so years since

595
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: the launch they've done fifty pretty substantial projects. When you joined,

596
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: were they a thriving successful company? The UK have gone

597
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: through a series of economic expansions and ran into some

598
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: trouble in the seventies. They got a little better in

599
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: the eighties, um, and then the nineties everybody exploded. What

600
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: was it like back then? Was it any bit of

601
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: an issue? You joined them when? Late eighties? Is that right? Uh? No?

602
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: The early nineties, Okay, I guess it was late eighties.

603
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: Trying to remember. Yeah, it was like eighties, eight eighty nine. Um, no,

604
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: it was. It was a thriving business. It was. It

605
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: was you know, if you've ever been to London, you

606
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: went to Canon Candon Locke. Especially back then. It was

607
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, even more energetic back then. So it was

608
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: an exciting place to be. And I really got a

609
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: kind of traditional apprenticeship, uh in a business. So you

610
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: know I was out there collecting twenty pound notes from fenders,

611
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: moving stalls around, you know, doing the business from the

612
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: ground up. So this was really hands on sort of

613
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: career from from from the start. It was hands on

614
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: and you know, what you gain is experience. And I

615
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: think what experiences is seeing patterns, um and what you

616
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: see if you do something over and over again, because

617
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: you see, well, if you line up the stalls this way,

618
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: the sales are gonna be better if you line them

619
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: up that way. So we learned our own little rules

620
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: about retail facing retail. How many stalls can you sustain

621
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: for a market? How much traffic do you need? And

622
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: really it was just a body of experience that I

623
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: gained by doing markets now for thirty five years. So no,

624
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: you're just hit or miss, trying a bunch of things

625
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: and then iterating with each subsequent UM. Fair to say,

626
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: here's what we learned with the last one, and slowly

627
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: but surely it just gets more and more robust. You

628
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: you learned. That's why it was like an apprenticeship. You

629
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: learn almost like a craftsperson learns their trade, and you

630
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: start to understand what the internal rules are of that business.

631
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: And that's what we've learned about. Any really unique UM

632
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: experiences stand out, anything that was well, didn't expect that

633
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: to happen. You can say. One of the interesting things

634
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: is the quality of the vendors, both chefs and and

635
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: craftsman has just skyrocketed. UM. So back when I first

636
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: started doing this in New York in the nineties and

637
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: early two thousand's, UM, look, there were a lot of

638
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: there were a lot of great vendors and people making food.

639
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: But sometime around two eight, when the you know, the

640
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: Internet and social media was really kicking in and other

641
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: potential career paths we're looking a little less successful. Um,

642
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: we suddenly started to see a lot more interesting chefs.

643
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: You know that the food truck thing was was blowing up.

644
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: People were off publishing, they were tweeting where they were

645
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: on a certain corner, and suddenly you had people who

646
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: might otherwise have been, you know, trying to develop software

647
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: or get a job in finance, we're saying, hey, you know,

648
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,839
Speaker 1: I can make a really interesting brand. I can make

649
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: a food business. And that's actually only continued to get

650
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: stronger because as you've seen things like shake shacko Public,

651
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: you've had more private equity firms jump into the space

652
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: and more opportunity for young people to to create a

653
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: brand and and and and roll that out. So you

654
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: alluded to something I have to ask, how significant to

655
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: the food halls are social media Instagram, Twitter? How big

656
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: are various people's followings and do they drive traffic to

657
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: different vendors? Yeah? I think I don't think there's any

658
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: business that's not touched by social media, and I think

659
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: that the food halls certainly grown up, the new new

660
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: version of the food halls grown up with social media.

661
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: So a lot of consumer now are you know, looking online,

662
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 1: Where's where's our food? All wars there the most interesting

663
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: chicken sandwich and they're finding it online. I read something

664
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: that certain food companies are changing the packaging of their

665
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,479
Speaker 1: boxes so they're more Instagram friendly. It's gone that far.

666
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: Uh do we see vendors making dishes pretty bright, colorful,

667
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: whatever it is, so that they're more susceptible to a

668
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: quick snap and neither a tweet or well, you know,

669
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: fast casual is by nature very instagram morble. So why

670
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: why is that? Because you you get, you get a plate,

671
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: you can take a shot on your table, you've got colors,

672
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: you've got different food and if if there's a story

673
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: behind that, and it's not just a national chain sandwich, Um,

674
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: that's something that can be inherent in that, in that

675
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: Instagram or in that Facebook. So you know, people loved it.

676
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: I think food is one of the most highly instagram items. Yeah,

677
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. So you mentioned earlier narrative, Um,

678
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: how significant is the narrative process to different food vendors

679
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: and and different holiday fair uh craftsmen as well. We

680
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: think it's it's a huge part of it really. We

681
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: think explained that that that's kind of fascinating. Well, you

682
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: know you're going to a market or a place like

683
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: this too, I feel like you're experiencing something that's part

684
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: of the city or part of that community. So even

685
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: if you don't know all the details of each of

686
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: these stories, you get a sense that there are real

687
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: people here with real life stories that have brought this

688
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: product to it to you. And these aren't just corporate

689
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: drones working flipping burgers. These are real chefs and real craftspeople. Well,

690
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: the control that the main control decisions are very localized.

691
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: So it's that entrepreneur has decided they're going to sell

692
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: you know, green sandals or whatever they decide to sell.

693
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: We're not deciding that. So I think that a consumer

694
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: sense is that they're not being sold something from on high.

695
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: This is the result of many individuals making many decisions.

696
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: Quite interesting. I think that that for us, what we

697
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: really look for is to create a sense of community, um,

698
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: and we do that by bringing uh, real live entrepreneurs

699
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: together and real consumers. And that community and authenticity is

700
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: inherent in bringing those communities together in a great space.

701
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: Makes a lot of sense to make. So let me

702
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 1: jump to my favorite questions. These are what I ask

703
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: all of our guests, um tell us the most important

704
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: thing people don't know about your background that I'm an

705
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: urban planner? Is that true? Probably? Interesting? Who are some

706
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: of your early mentors, Esoteric Lee Christopher Alexander, who is

707
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: an interesting architect and planner who wrote a book called

708
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: a Pattern Language, and he really thought about urban spaces

709
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: as a series of vignettes or patterns that get put

710
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: together into a language. And what's interesting about it is

711
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: that a lot of his thinking was was picked up

712
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 1: by software engineers in Silicon Valley in the seventies and eighties.

713
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: So there's an interesting tie in between what's happening with

714
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: our perception of urban spaces and what's happening with the

715
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: idea of frames in Instagram or a Facebook and how

716
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: things are organized. What other architects, urban planners, real estate

717
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: developers influenced your approach to thinking about food hales or

718
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: holiday affairs. The Rouse Company, you know what, the Festival Marketplace,

719
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: which really came around the time at the Boston Tennial.

720
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: I was a kid at the time. I grew up

721
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: in Boston, so I'd take the training and I got

722
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: a I got a Fannial Hall. I'd read the Boston

723
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: Globe Real Estate section, and I got excited about the

724
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: idea of markets in the idea of reusing buildings. Probably

725
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: at that time. I've noticed that whenever there's a form

726
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: of um urban renewal, and probably the broadest version of

727
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: this I've seen recently has been in Portland's These buildings

728
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: that were once used for one specific set of purposes

729
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 1: have now been There were mills, they were mining, smelters

730
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: and things like that. Suddenly they become these very hip

731
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: retailers and restaurants. Is that what you're referring to when

732
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: you talk about repurposing. I think there was an earlier

733
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: phase of market repurposing that started in the seventies that

734
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: you know, the Rass Company was a leader in that.

735
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: You Camden Locke started at that time. I went to

736
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: a markets conference a couple of years ago at Pike's Place,

737
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: and actually Pike's Place was renovated and repurposed in this

738
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: in the mid seventies. Is that what we're talking about Seattle,

739
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: and we had um Eric from London, the guys from

740
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: Pike's Place, we had other guy from South Africa. And

741
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 1: it was interesting talking to people who had been involved

742
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: at that time redeveloping things. And it was very real

743
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: estate driven. It was like, we got this great warehouse,

744
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: let's reuse it. Today it's different. I think that what's

745
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: happening today is it's very vender driven. It's about the entrepreneur.

746
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: The space is critical, but it's first and foremost about

747
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: the creativity and the idea of who the vendor is.

748
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: And we have many more great vendors than we did

749
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 1: back then in the seventies. So everybody's favorite question. Tell

750
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: us about some of your favorite books, be they real estate, food,

751
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: architecture related or not. What what are you reading? What

752
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: do you like? Um? I read. I read a lot

753
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: of history, you know, I'm fascinated with the history of cities.

754
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,439
Speaker 1: I read a lot about about London, about New York,

755
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: about other about other great cities and how they developed,

756
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: and the economies of these cities and how the economy

757
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: is interwoven with um how these places have been set up.

758
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: Give us a few book titles. Oh, I love the

759
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: you know the biography of the Wright brothers, and you know,

760
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: if you read the first chapter of that, you know

761
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: the Right brothers were bicycle repair people, but they were

762
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: working in a vibrant city in the nineteenth century where

763
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: you had, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs and a

764
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: lot of access to parts and pieces and ideas and

765
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: a lot of idea of there's no limitation to what

766
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: they could do, and the individual entrepreneur or inventor could

767
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: really put things together and make something new happen. And

768
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: I think what's really exciting to me working in the

769
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: sectors that I see that energy. I see it in Brooklyn,

770
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: now I see it in Boston and Chicago. There's a

771
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: lot of young entrepreneurs who feel empowered by the Internet

772
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: and by the technology to go out and create something

773
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: quite quite interesting. So, so since you started working in

774
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: this space, what has changed? How is it different today

775
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: than it was in the early nineties. What's different today

776
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: is technology has changed everything. Therefore, the consumer preference or

777
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: what consumers are looking for has shifted quite a bit.

778
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: So there's much more interest, which I didn't anticipate what

779
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: happened in markets and in entrepreneurs. So that's exciting. I

780
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: would Well, that leads me to my next question, Um,

781
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: what is it that you're most excited about right now?

782
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: Beyond technology which is changing everything, what really drives me

783
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: and I in a lot of our company is creating

784
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: great places that are social places. So we're not hopefully

785
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: always going to be stuck in our car or home

786
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: looking at our computers. That we can create great places

787
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: where you can be out and leading a civic life,

788
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: if you will, meeting other people, brushing shoulders, meeting entrepreneurs.

789
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: And I think that's a big part of our mission.

790
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: Tell us about a time you failed and what you

791
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: learned from the experience. Oh, I've had plenty of bad markets,

792
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: and I think markets that have filled and I think

793
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: that that's something that currently a lot of our is

794
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: jumping in don't have the experience of knowing that these

795
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: markets just don't work everywhere, and you know they go bad,

796
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: they go bad fast because you don't have a national

797
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: tenant who's signed a tenure. Least, you've got a local guy,

798
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: and that they're leaving the second they're not making money,

799
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 1: they're walking out the door. So this does not work everywhere.

800
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: And I think a good fifty percent of what's being

801
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: planned right now won't last in the long run really,

802
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: so so there is no long ramp up if this

803
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: these don't come out of the gate working, they have

804
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: a what is it a ninety day window before people say,

805
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, it takes it takes a good year because

806
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: everyone's got great intentions and they're working hard. But you

807
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: know a lot of we we've worked with um a

808
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: group that that that works with small businesses, and they've

809
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: done surveys. A lot of these small businesses don't even

810
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: know if they're profitable. They don't have the books, the bookkeeping,

811
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: or they're not on top enough of what's going on.

812
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: So it may take them a year to realize that

813
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: this isn't working for them. Really, that's amazing. I would

814
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: think if they're not profitable, they're writing a check to

815
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: cover it, you would think they would be aware where

816
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: unless they have capital with another they're living day to

817
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: day and they're as long as they're able to pay

818
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: a bill they're hoping for the sales went increase, So

819
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: so a new market opens up and it's more or

820
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: less got a year to catch on or else. So

821
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 1: what happens vendors start to leave. When do you make

822
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: the decision, Hey, this isn't working, We're gonna pull the

823
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: plug when the vendors leave. So it becomes an easy

824
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: at the point, Right, how often does that happen? What?

825
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,959
Speaker 1: What's your success rate? Like, you know, early on, I'd

826
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 1: say two thirds okay, but even still a third failing

827
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: is a pretty Uh that's a pretty big number. And

828
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: now much less because now we're much more cautious. You're

829
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: more cautious, or you just more experienced than knowing what

830
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: works and what does in or some combination experienced and cautious.

831
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: We you know, we get inquiries almost daily and we

832
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: say no, no percent of the time from the space

833
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: or from the vendors or who's who's making the inquiries. Um, landlords, Hey,

834
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: we'd love to set up an urban space here. Yeah,

835
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: and so I look at a place like Vanderbilt. That's

836
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,919
Speaker 1: got to be a fairly long term lease. I assume, right,

837
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: this isn't a pop up. This is there for a while. Um,

838
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: you have lots of other spaces that people approach you

839
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 1: about like that. Yeah, I mean, look, there's a retail

840
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: is soft. There's a lot of people looking for for tenants.

841
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: Um Ton of empty storefronts, even even Manhattan, which is

842
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: robust and thriving, lots of lots of empty spaces. Yeah,

843
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a little bit of price adjustment,

844
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: you know, rents will adjust a little bit. There's other downward,

845
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: you know. I think that I talked to a lot

846
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: of people. I think there'll be other tenants backfilling those spaces.

847
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: But clearly it's a It's a great market to be

848
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,479
Speaker 1: in if you have a a concept that's making money

849
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: right now, right and um so, how many more urban

850
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: space type food halls can Manhattan's support you can open?

851
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: We're opening, definitely opening more in Manhattan. You know, we

852
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: think our trade area is fairly fairly tight. All right,

853
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 1: So you're a going to guess you're sticking to Midtown

854
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 1: and downtown by the financial district and maybe Hudson Yards.

855
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: Is that, uh, we're looking at those places, yeah, and others.

856
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: I would assume is it driven more by the office

857
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: worker or is it driven by I look at the

858
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: Upper east Side or the Upper west Side. You have

859
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: a lot of residences and not as many offices. Can

860
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: can an urban space work in an area like that?

861
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: Or do you need the crush of that lunchtime rush.

862
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different customer bases, so it could.

863
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: It can be residential, it can be tourism, it can

864
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: be office. Obviously there's different patterns to each one of those. Sure,

865
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: so tell us what you do outside of the office

866
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: for fun when you're not thinking about architecture and urban planning.

867
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: What do you do to relax or kickback. I do

868
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: a lot of ski trips with my kids, and we

869
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: do a lot of stuff together as a family. So

870
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: we're skiing, we're playing tennis, were hiking and doing Tuckerman's

871
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: Ravine next month. Where is tucking about Washington? Oh, so

872
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: that's a that's a serious well for the East Coast.

873
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to a recent college graduate

874
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: or a millennial who was considering working in retail architecture

875
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: or urban planning or any of those sort of work

876
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: that you do, and they were looking for a little

877
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: guns what would you tell them? Definitely, just jump in,

878
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: you get a job, get some experience, um, and start

879
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: start doing it. I think that you need the experience.

880
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: I think if you tried to start, for example, a

881
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: food brand too early without knowing all the ins and outs,

882
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: it could be difficult. On the other hand, if your

883
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: capital etta isn't that high, you'll gain exp is by

884
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: doing it, even if the first one doesn't work. And

885
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 1: our final question, what do you know about urban planning?

886
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: Rest you touring holiday fairs food halls today that you

887
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: wish you knew twenty plus years ago when you were

888
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: first getting started. What would have been helpful twenty years

889
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 1: ago to know that today you just take for granted.

890
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: I think what is easier today probably didn't exist twenty

891
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: years ago, which is, you know, access to landlords in

892
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: capital But that's that's just shifted m so to one

893
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: more about capital markets in real estate than than I

894
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: did when I started. But it was it was it

895
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: was tougher to find spaces years ago. That's that's that's

896
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: quite interesting. We have been speaking with Eldin Scott of

897
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: Urban Space. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and

898
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: look up and enter down an Inch on Apple iTunes

899
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: or overcast wherever your final podcasts are sold, and you

900
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 1: could see any of our other two hundred plus such conversations.

901
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us

902
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would

903
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not thank our crack staff

904
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: who helps put together the podcast each week. Medina Parwana

905
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: is our audio engineer. Slash producer Taylor Riggs is my

906
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: booker producer Michael bat Nick is our head of research.

907
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ritults. You've been listening to Masters in Business

908
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio