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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on it You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is

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Speaker 1: Kat and I am the host. If you are new

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Speaker 1: and are not sure what couch Talks is, it is

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Speaker 1: the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy where I

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Speaker 1: answer questions that you guys send to me and you

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Speaker 1: can send those to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. Now. Usually we answer one question a week

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Speaker 1: and we always keep it anonymous. So if you're worried

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Speaker 1: about somebody finding out that it was you, if you

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Speaker 1: and all your friends listen to You Need Therapy every

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Speaker 1: week and you' all text about it, you have a

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Speaker 1: question and you're like, well, I don't want to send

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Speaker 1: it in because then they're going to know it's me

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Speaker 1: and maybe I'm talking about one of them. Good news

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Speaker 1: is it's anonymous, so just don't give me any details

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Speaker 1: that you wouldn't want to give me and nobody will

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Speaker 1: ever know. So this week we're going to go along

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Speaker 1: with the normal theme, answer one question, and it's actually

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Speaker 1: one that I think is going to spark a full

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Speaker 1: episode because there's just so much conversation to be had

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Speaker 1: about this topic.

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Speaker 2: So let's just get into it. Here is our question.

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Speaker 1: Hey, kat I love the podcast and thought of you

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Speaker 1: today as I have been having a difficult time coping

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Speaker 1: with an aspect of my work lately and can't help

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Speaker 1: think you or someone else might feel this way in

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Speaker 1: a similar line of work. I'm a recreation therapist and

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Speaker 1: work with cancer patients who are in the hospital going

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Speaker 1: through chemotherapy and radiation. My focus is on helping them

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Speaker 1: engage in a meaningful and purposeful leisure activities to promote

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Speaker 1: a positive quality of life while they're in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: I've been in the setting for twelve years and I

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Speaker 1: love what I do. It's so rewarding. But for the

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Speaker 1: past few years I've been feeling more drained from a

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Speaker 1: typical day. I feel like a broken wheel with some

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Speaker 1: of my patients lately, trying to encourage, motivate, and support

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Speaker 1: positive coping strategies active listening is really hard work. I

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Speaker 1: take time after work on my days off to rejuvenate

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Speaker 1: by just seeing what I preach all day, but am

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Speaker 1: finding lately lack of motivation and motivating others.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel that way too?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes in your job, Compassion fatigue is a real thing,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm in that spot now. I

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Speaker 1: have some vacation time coming up and looking forward to

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Speaker 1: a much needed breakaway from the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for all you do, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: And I chose this email today because this is like

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Speaker 1: the most real email I've ever received, and I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that this person sent this. And I say that

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Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people, in helping professions

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Speaker 1: or even just being a human in general, get a

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Speaker 1: little nervous and scared and tiptoe around this idea of

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Speaker 1: being tired and exhausted from being helpful or a good

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Speaker 1: person or offering compassion.

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Speaker 2: And it's a very human experience to have. And my

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Speaker 2: response is going.

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Speaker 1: To involve a lot of both, as there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of dialectics here too, things that are true at the

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Speaker 1: same time that feel contradictory, but both can exist at

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Speaker 1: the same time. And we live in a world where

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Speaker 1: we don't really like that, and that doesn't If it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, then it can't be true. And you

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Speaker 1: can't like something and struggle with it. You can't have

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Speaker 1: a lack of motivation and still be good at your job,

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Speaker 1: like you can't have these two things at once.

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Speaker 2: But the reality is you can.

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Speaker 1: And I remember a time, which is funny to look

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Speaker 1: back on, but I remember a time when I was

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Speaker 1: learning about burnout and how to avoid it and what

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Speaker 1: to do when it comes up back in school, and

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Speaker 1: I of course thought that that was something that happened

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Speaker 1: to other people, and so.

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Speaker 2: I don't really need to pay attention to this part

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Speaker 2: of the class. I'm not going to be burnt out

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Speaker 2: for my job. How that ever happened.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of like that idea where people think

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Speaker 1: that things like house fires or cancer could never happen

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Speaker 1: to them until it happens to them, and then they

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Speaker 1: realize that nobody is really immune. And the truth is,

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Speaker 1: I love my job, and sometimes I don't want to

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Speaker 1: do it. Sometimes I experience burnout. I'm over it. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I have no patience and I just want to scream.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of things in my head that

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Speaker 1: I want to say. Most of the times they don't

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Speaker 1: say them. Sometimes they do come out, and there's some

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Speaker 1: prepair to be done. And then sometimes I feel so calm.

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Speaker 1: I have all that energy in the world. I feel

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Speaker 1: like my compassion is just overflowing. I just am exuding

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Speaker 1: kindness and love and understanding, and I think that is

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Speaker 1: honestly something that can be true of anything that we

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Speaker 1: really love or like. For example, if you love pizza, right,

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Speaker 1: how could you ever get sick of pizza? We'll eat

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Speaker 1: it for every single meal for a month, for three months,

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Speaker 1: for six months, for a year, you would probably start

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Speaker 1: to get sick of it and you would probably want

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Speaker 1: something else. And with our jobs, most of us are

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing every single day, over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. And while specifically a job like mine

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Speaker 1: is very rewarding, sometimes it's not rewarding, and sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of it's like your the reward is the future.

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Speaker 1: Reward is something that you might not ever actually see,

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Speaker 1: where a lot of times I'm planting seeds and it's

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Speaker 1: rewarding knowing that, but it's also using my imagination to

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Speaker 1: know that what I'm doing is being helpful, and it

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Speaker 1: feels kind of pointless or just for a lack of

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Speaker 1: a better word here, exhausting in the moment. It's not like, oh,

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Speaker 1: and I'm prefacing this with I think every job can

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Speaker 1: be hard its own, right. But let's say you are

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Speaker 1: a baker and maybe you decorate cakes. You get to

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Speaker 1: see the reward of your labor. When you're done with it,

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Speaker 1: you get to see that. And helping professions sometimes you

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Speaker 1: don't get to see that. Sometimes you're helping hopeful, hoping

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Speaker 1: that in the future it will stick, it'll mean something.

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Speaker 1: And also sometimes what we do doesn't really help much.

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Speaker 1: And so I mean, I think I've talked about this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the actual statistic is now, but

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Speaker 1: I remember in my internship a therapist telling me that

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Speaker 1: one in every ten clients that we get and treatment

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Speaker 1: will actually stay sober.

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Speaker 2: I don't know where that.

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Speaker 1: Statistic came from, but regardless of that, it probably has

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Speaker 1: some truth to it. And what's it's saying is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have you might have eight clients. You're gonna work

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Speaker 1: just as hard with every single client knowing that maybe

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Speaker 1: one of them is going to actually stay sober. And

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Speaker 1: that can be really hard because it feels like a

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Speaker 1: lot of what you do doesn't matter. But when you

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Speaker 1: really sit down with it and you have all the

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Speaker 1: energy and you have the regulated emotions, you can see, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well I would do that to save that one person.

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Speaker 1: It does make sense. In the thick of it. It

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Speaker 1: can be very discouraging. Now, like I said before, I

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Speaker 1: very much believe that my job isn't harder than anyone

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Speaker 1: else's job, per se. Most jobs come with their struggles,

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Speaker 1: and I really try to use that view when I

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Speaker 1: look at what I do and when I look at

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Speaker 1: what the people around on me do. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: sitting here being like although I've talked about how sometimes

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Speaker 1: I dream of working at the post office, I also

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Speaker 1: know that that would come with its own hard and

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Speaker 1: so when it comes down to it, I do have

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Speaker 1: gratitude for the hard that I get to deal with.

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Speaker 1: And while I can have that gratitude, sometimes it's difficult

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Speaker 1: and frustrating and I'm over mustering up the strength to

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Speaker 1: tackle the hard, I very much do get burned out,

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Speaker 1: contrary to what I thought my life was going to

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Speaker 1: be like when I was in grad school. And I

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Speaker 1: know part of my job is to maintain and hold

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Speaker 1: hope for those who struggle to be able to muster

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Speaker 1: it up at times. And I imagine that your job

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Speaker 1: as a recreation therapist is similar in that regard. And

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Speaker 1: while I love this, sometimes I don't want to work

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Speaker 1: this role. Sometimes I want to switch roles, and that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean I don't enjoy my job. That wouldn't mean

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Speaker 1: that you don't enjoy your job. It doesn't mean I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing it. It just means I'm a human

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Speaker 1: and I get tired and maybe there's something I need

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Speaker 1: right now. So yes, practicing what you preach is important.

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Speaker 1: The balance of outside of work things is important. Life

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Speaker 1: outside of work. It's important to remember that you are

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Speaker 1: not your job. You're a human that works a job,

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Speaker 1: and part of your unique human qualities help you do

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Speaker 1: that job. But you are not a machine created to

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Speaker 1: work this job. We need breaks, we need rest, we

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Speaker 1: need maintenance more than an actual machine, because we're humans

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Speaker 1: and we can't be perfectly programmed. And I also just

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Speaker 1: want to add that it's very natural to compare yourself

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Speaker 1: to people in your field. But two things that I

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Speaker 1: want to mention here. We're all different, and too, you

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Speaker 1: never really know someone else's insides. They could say they're fine,

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Speaker 1: they could say they don't struggle with burnout, they could

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Speaker 1: say all that, and it could be true. We also

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Speaker 1: don't know, and so we need to be really careful

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Speaker 1: of comparing what we're going through with what we think

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Speaker 1: or what somebody is telling us they're going through and

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Speaker 1: I think of this time when I was on a visit.

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Speaker 1: I was visiting a treatment center with a group of

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Speaker 1: therapists a couple of years back, and we were eating

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Speaker 1: lunch together and they put us at tables with different people,

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Speaker 1: and obviously you're talking to those people there, therapists that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know, and we were just chatting about work,

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Speaker 1: and this one lady told our table that she sees

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Speaker 1: eight clients a day, and I was shook, I mean shook.

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Speaker 1: I was like, what, huh. I'm not going to say

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Speaker 1: that I've never done that before, because I have plenty

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Speaker 1: of times. But if I saw eight clients a day,

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Speaker 1: for five days a week, I would not be okay

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Speaker 1: and I would probably not be working this job anymore.

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Speaker 1: I would be miserable at work, and outside of work,

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Speaker 1: I don't think my clients would want to see me anymore.

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Speaker 1: My sweet spot is four to six and I only

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Speaker 1: see clients four days a week. That doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: I'm not as good as this lady. It just means

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Speaker 1: I'm different. It doesn't mean that she's doing something wrong.

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Speaker 1: It just means that she's different. I have a different

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Speaker 1: threshold and I don't need to hold myself to that

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Speaker 1: person's standard. She's not better, I'm not better. We're just

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Speaker 1: different and we both can be good. And I wish

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Speaker 1: that was something that more people believed, that things can

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Speaker 1: be different and both can be good. There's not always

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Speaker 1: a ranking system that needs to be put in place

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Speaker 1: for these kinds of situations. And so I say that

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Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, because we always can

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Speaker 1: look to our left, look to our right, look in

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Speaker 1: front of us, look behind us, and see that somebody

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Speaker 1: is doing something more, or somebody is doing something less,

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Speaker 1: or somebody's doing something a different way, and it's natural

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Speaker 1: to say, huh, should.

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Speaker 2: I be doing that?

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Speaker 1: And sometimes maybe it is helpful to ask that question.

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Speaker 1: But I also think if we're going to ask that question,

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Speaker 1: we need to be asking that question should I be

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Speaker 1: doing that? Versus I should be doing that, just because

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Speaker 1: it needs to be a question that we investigate versus

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Speaker 1: they're doing this. So that means blank because I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be seen eight clients a week. I don't need to,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: Helpful to me.

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Speaker 1: To me, and there doesn't even have to be any

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Speaker 1: more discussion around that, I for sure would be experiencing

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Speaker 1: more burnout than I do now and so and closing

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Speaker 1: this whole episode up, I just want to say thank

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Speaker 1: you for sending this email and I hope that even

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Speaker 1: just writing it was therapeutic for you and cathartic and

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Speaker 1: let some release out, allowing yourself to be.

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Speaker 2: Human that way.

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Speaker 1: And my hope is too soon, whether it's next week

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Speaker 1: or the week after, in the next couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: do an episode on compassion fatigue, because something that was

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Speaker 1: talked about a lot during the pandemic with helping professionals,

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Speaker 1: but it's something that is alive all the time and

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Speaker 1: nobody is immune from experiencing that, and it's a real thing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that you're bad or wrong or in

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Speaker 1: the wrong field. So hopefully we'll be doing more on that.

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Speaker 1: And if you have any experiences with that, things that

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Speaker 1: helped you realize that you were experiencing compassion fatigue or burnout,

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Speaker 1: or things that helped you when you were in that space,

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Speaker 1: please send those to me. I would love to share those. So,

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Speaker 1: just like these Wednesday couch Talks episodes are conversations within

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Speaker 1: the community or Monday ones can be as well. So

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Speaker 1: I hope you guys are having the day, the week,

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Speaker 1: the hour that you need to have. I will be

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Speaker 1: back with you on Monday,