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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is no.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee palle Vegan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know? And welcome, Welcome, welcome back.

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Speaker 3: We are recording this episode on Oh guys, I had

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Speaker 3: it in the notes as Friday, February sixth, Now we're

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Speaker 3: nine February Monday. Anyway, we're traveling to a rod.

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Speaker 4: Figured it in our minds and definitely in our hearts.

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Speaker 4: Stuff is not going super well over there.

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Speaker 2: Understatement, Yeah, but it's great over here.

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Speaker 3: Guys.

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Speaker 2: Don't you think we just had a Super Bowl?

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Speaker 4: Super that's for sure, apparently with a very offensive halftime show.

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Speaker 3: It's not superb Owl.

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Speaker 4: Did you guys watch the halftime show? I just saw

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Speaker 4: the clips I did. Yeah, you said it was pretty cool, right?

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Speaker 4: It was like quite quite the spectacle.

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Speaker 3: I watched both of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the one that played, you know, on the television

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Speaker 2: on NBC only on NBC, just like the Olympics. Apparently

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Speaker 2: they're really wow, they're getting the programming over there, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: That one was really cool, it it, especially if you

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Speaker 2: watch them of the analysis afterwards, just the symbolic nature

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Speaker 2: of what was shown on the sets, you know, in particular.

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Speaker 3: Became very wholesome exploration of history of what it means

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Speaker 3: to be an American in Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 4: So what and why the why all the beef? I

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Speaker 4: just don't I've never I mean, not even to politicize

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Speaker 4: any of it, but I just seems like sort of

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Speaker 4: a the guy's a big star, he's got hits, he's

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Speaker 4: Spanish language artist. Is that the lone point of contention?

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Speaker 4: The fact that his songs are not in English?

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Speaker 3: There's linguistic tension for sure, that's it.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, for me watching it and only being

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Speaker 2: able to speak a little bit of Spanish, you know,

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Speaker 2: and where I can understand bits and pieces, and then

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Speaker 2: based on what imagery I'm being shown, I can pick

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Speaker 2: up a few more of the words, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know the phrases. I don't understand exactly what the story is. Again,

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Speaker 2: they did a great job visually telling the story throughout

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Speaker 2: the show, but there is like this. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how to characterize it other than a slight unsettling feeling

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Speaker 2: wishing wishing I could understand it better than I currently do.

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Speaker 3: If that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: Does that make you angry, Matt? I'm sorry, I'm joking. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: it just seems. I don't mean to beat a dead horse.

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Speaker 4: I just fully don't quite understand why people are so

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Speaker 4: up in arms about the particular halftime show.

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Speaker 3: It's a performative thing to be angry about. It's a

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Speaker 3: culture war thing like Oh, someone's canceling Christmas. It is

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Speaker 3: indicative of a domestic tension. I will point out that

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Speaker 3: the superb Owl is most famous economically as a thing

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Speaker 3: for advertisements, Oh you're gonna watch. It doesn't matter who

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Speaker 3: wins or loses, good job, Seahawks, etc. But the main

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Speaker 3: issue is look at that production value on all the stuff,

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Speaker 3: and then ask yourself if that money could have built

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Speaker 3: a library, or fed some kids, or given some elderly

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Speaker 3: people healthcare.

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Speaker 4: I thought you were going to say it doesn't matter

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Speaker 4: who wins or loses, it's just how you play the game,

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Speaker 4: because that's the motto here.

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Speaker 3: I did watch that al Paccino's speech. We know that

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Speaker 3: domestic tensions in the United States are at a boiling point.

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Speaker 3: We also know that in Iran things are going much worse.

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Speaker 3: The countries rulers and military are not just kidnapping people,

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Speaker 3: they're murdering protesters on mass There's a collapsing economy, there's

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Speaker 3: a water crisis. There is always a looming threat of war.

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Speaker 3: Did you not sign it that the Super Bowl halftime show?

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, when you say superbowel, it makes

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Speaker 4: me think of the really fancy one they have at

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Speaker 4: the Bohemian Grove meetings that's always going on about. But

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Speaker 4: don't these things that you just mentioned, Ben feel and

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Speaker 4: I'm not trying to be too hyperbolic here, feel like

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Speaker 4: things that we're on the cusp of here in the

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Speaker 4: United States. Is this just like an escalation or like

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Speaker 4: a look into what the worst possible escalation of these

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Speaker 4: types of things could be?

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Speaker 3: God damn, you are cool. Yes, exactly. So this is

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Speaker 3: the question, right what is going on in Iran? We're

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Speaker 3: going to pause for a word from our sponsors, will

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Speaker 3: be right back. Here are the facts. All right. If

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Speaker 3: you want a deep dive on Persian Iranian history, please

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Speaker 3: do check out our earlier episode from twenty eighteen, Iran

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Speaker 3: and Imperialism.

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Speaker 4: That's the one, right, Hey, that's the one that's right

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Speaker 4: twenty eighteen. Ron is a beautiful country, you know, often

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Speaker 4: referred to as the you know, a birthplace of civilization.

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Speaker 4: That region in particular, it has had this ongoing tension

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Speaker 4: and sort of a very mixed relationship, troubling relationship with

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Speaker 4: the rest of the world for various reasons, the location

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Speaker 4: being first and foremost. It would seem their strategic location

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Speaker 4: gives it a lot of control over that very strategically

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Speaker 4: located of Hormuz, which is a choke point for the

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Speaker 4: world's oil and energy trade.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we game it out pretty often. I was

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Speaker 3: talking with some folks earlier about the recent Western strategies

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Speaker 3: that are all focused on how long the Iranian government

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Speaker 3: can choke the Strait of Hormuz. The numbers are looking wild,

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Speaker 3: and if we're all okay with it, we should disclose

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Speaker 3: to everyone on Netflix, everyone listening, that we have been

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Speaker 3: to the Middle East. We have not visited Tehran. It's

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Speaker 3: one of my dream cities to visit, but we have

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Speaker 3: been to Cutter and I think you Matt most recently,

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Speaker 3: how was your experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just got back from Guitar and one thing

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Speaker 2: you learn about that country if you're checking it out,

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Speaker 2: is that there's a great amount of wealth there for

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Speaker 2: citizens of Katar, human beings that were born and grew

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Speaker 2: up as Katari. There's money that you are given basically

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Speaker 2: that the country provides you with things as a citizen

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Speaker 2: because there's a tremendous amount of oil wealth there, right

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Speaker 2: of resource wealth that has existed on that fairly small

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Speaker 2: little peninsula there in the Persian Gulf. And being in

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Speaker 2: control of your own resources, as we find, is one

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Speaker 2: of the most amazing things you can experience as a

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Speaker 2: country and as a people's of a country. And it's

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Speaker 2: also one of the biggest sins you can commit when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the Western powers and the world order.

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Speaker 2: Attempting to gain control of your own resources, which is

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Speaker 2: the story we're talking about today with Iran, or.

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Speaker 3: Just retain control right, just say no to Aramco for instance.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, or in Iran, like back in nineteen sixteen,

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Speaker 2: that's when all of the new countries are formed after

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Speaker 2: world War One, and it's done by Western people, Western

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Speaker 2: powers deciding where the lines are for different countries without

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Speaker 2: respect to the human beings and the cultures that they're dividing.

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Speaker 3: Up right, Yeah, colonialism actually weaponized and predated upon the

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Speaker 3: existing indigenous or native tensions in any region throughout throughout

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Speaker 3: the continents, pretty much every continent except for Antarctica. Those

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Speaker 3: lines are purposely, not arbitrarily drawn. The idea is, if,

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Speaker 3: for instance, you find Hutu in Sutsi in Africa, right,

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Speaker 3: then you empower a certain part of the population to

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Speaker 3: victimize the others and extract resources on the way.

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Speaker 2: And if you look at Iran there after World War One,

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Speaker 2: when it is you know, when those lines are drawn,

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Speaker 2: it becomes a country. There's a lot of influence initially there,

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Speaker 2: and then you get to the point where in the

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifties, nineteen fifty three or two specifically, there's finally

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Speaker 2: an election of someone who's going to run Iran and

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Speaker 2: that person has ideas like, hey, maybe we should be

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Speaker 2: in control of our natural resources here in Iran, and

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Speaker 2: then six and the CIA quickly put that down. And

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Speaker 2: you can learn about the history of that just look

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Speaker 2: up nineteen fifty three Iran. Just pointing out here that

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Speaker 2: the Western influence and then you get to the atomic

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Speaker 2: dreams that Iran had when you're talking about new energy right,

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Speaker 2: and how to be independent of other nations and grab

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Speaker 2: your own power, grab the reins of power right as

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Speaker 2: a country. The United States it's offered that thing that

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Speaker 2: we talked about where you could get a basically a

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Speaker 2: research reactor for nuclear energy, and that is something that

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Speaker 2: the United States President Eisenhower gave to Iran. It was

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Speaker 2: a deal that was made a long time ago. I'm sorry, guys,

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Speaker 2: I'm going way out far a field here, just to

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Speaker 2: point out that how Iran got to the point where

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Speaker 2: it is now where we look at the problems we're

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Speaker 2: about to talk about, you cannot underestimate the amount of

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Speaker 2: influence the West and specifically the United States has had

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Speaker 2: to get them to this point where we now have

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Speaker 2: a major issue with them.

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Speaker 3: Oh agreed. This is a culmination. This is not out

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Speaker 3: of the blue. Over decades, Iran has waged proxy wars,

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Speaker 3: and proxy wars have been waged against Iran. It's undergone revolutions,

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Speaker 3: it's been embroiled in as Matt said, ongoing arguments about

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Speaker 3: nuclear technology. The other countries in the region, as well

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Speaker 3: as Western Europe and the United States, are convinced that

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Speaker 3: if Iran acquires nuclear weaponry, it will spell disaster for

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Speaker 3: what we call the current global order, might trigger World

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Speaker 3: War three. So it's no surprise that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people are working around the clock to analyze the situation,

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Speaker 3: to game out scenarios, and also to navigate what we

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Speaker 3: call off ramps. That's why Iran and the US are

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Speaker 3: talking again. It's so weird, man, geopolitics is so weird,

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Speaker 3: and that's all just the outside stuff. So we all

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Speaker 3: probably know about geopolitical tensions, and they do fuel the

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Speaker 3: current chaos. However, the domestic situation, as we record, has

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Speaker 3: escalated to a new level of unprecedented danger. Can we

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Speaker 3: talk a little bit about the Iran Israel war, the

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Speaker 3: most recent one.

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Speaker 2: I mean, where Israel is bombing the absolute crap out

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Speaker 2: of Iran.

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Speaker 3: After killing nuclear scientists.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we got to go back to Adams for peace.

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Speaker 2: Let's just talk about it really quickly, because I think

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Speaker 2: that is I think that is the crux of all

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Speaker 2: of this, at least in my mind. President Dwight, the

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Speaker 2: Eisenhower goes to the General Assembly of the United Nations

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Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty three makes a speech about this thing called.

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Speaker 4: Atoms for Peace.

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Speaker 2: This is the idea that the United States government will

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Speaker 2: give out these research reactors to any country that wants

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Speaker 2: them if they if they promise essentially make a pinky property.

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Speaker 2: They signed yet, well, they signed some things that officially

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Speaker 2: state we will only use this atomic energy for peaceful means,

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Speaker 2: for energy production purposes.

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Speaker 4: Any kind of agreement like that between nations is like

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Speaker 4: you would say, none by right. It's sort of more

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Speaker 4: of like a gesture more than anything.

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Speaker 2: There's a beautiful sentiment at the heart of it, I think,

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Speaker 2: and maybe this is propaganda one way or the other,

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Speaker 2: but this is a quote from Eisenhower. If a danger

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Speaker 2: exists in the world, it is a danger shared by all,

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Speaker 2: and equally that if hope exists in the mind of

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Speaker 2: one nation, that hope should be shared by all.

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Speaker 4: Point though, doesn't it by today's I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 4: trying to be negative. It's it's wonderful. I think it's

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Speaker 4: exactly right, but it just does not feel like the

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Speaker 4: prevailing sentiment. It seems like we've ventured so far into

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Speaker 4: isolationism and othering that it's just doesn't even really apply anymore,

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Speaker 4: or at least with folks in power.

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Speaker 3: So what we're saying here is again this is more

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Speaker 3: a culmination of previous things. Obviously, geopolitic is full of bullies.

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Speaker 3: It's full of folks stepping on toes and grabbing it

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Speaker 3: from each other. Thank you for the beet, Dylan. However,

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Speaker 3: I love that Eisenhower quote because it does show us

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Speaker 3: good people exist. Dare we say a greater good?

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Speaker 2: The concept right of a shared potential prosperity is really cool.

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Speaker 2: The weirdness comes in in that in nineteen fifty three,

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Speaker 2: the same year that that speech was given, is when

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Mohammad mazude I don't know how to say

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Speaker 2: that correctly, Mossa d. E g H was overthrown. And

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Speaker 2: one of the primary reasons he was overthrown in Iran,

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Speaker 2: theoretically at least, was because he wanted oil for Iranians,

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Speaker 2: like Iranian oil for Iranians, which is a tale as

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Speaker 2: old as time.

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Speaker 3: To discourse here, Sorry for interrupting everybody. Please remember the

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Speaker 3: CIA has officially stopped publishing the World Factbook.

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Speaker 2: That's crazy, right, it's a bummer we got the last ones.

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Speaker 2: Well whatever, but it has information in here about Iran,

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Speaker 2: which is really cool every other country, so that occurs

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Speaker 2: right simultaneously. Sure, the United States in Iran in nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty seven agreed to a civilian nuclear cooperation agreement. They

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Speaker 2: called it Cooperation concerning Civil Uses of Atoms And it

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Speaker 2: was directly through that Atoms for Peace idea that the

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Speaker 2: US put forward at the UN. And then two years

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Speaker 2: later there's this thing called the Tehran Nuclear Research Center

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Speaker 2: at the University of Tehran. So if you if you

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Speaker 2: look at the nuclear ambitions of the country of Iran,

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Speaker 2: they are literally begun by the United States of America.

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Speaker 4: Kind of create a lot of problems that we ultimately

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Speaker 4: find inconvenient down the line, or you know, offer solutions

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Speaker 4: for the problems that we sort of created, which.

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Speaker 2: Guys, you tell me, but that this rings a lot

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Speaker 2: like that concept where we provide the power or the

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Speaker 2: means for something that is potentially being could be used

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Speaker 2: to wield power. We provide that so that there is

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Speaker 2: a reasoning at some point for intervention if necessary.

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Speaker 3: You create the problem to solve the problem.

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Speaker 4: I do wonder though, I mean It's easy to be

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Speaker 4: completely cynical about that, and I would probably say that

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Speaker 4: I am that it is all a strategic play like

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Speaker 4: you're saying, or is it just a matter of like

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Speaker 4: we provide the means when we think we have the

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Speaker 4: country under our thumb to a certain degree, or using

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Speaker 4: it in a way that will benefit ourselves. But then

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Speaker 4: when they get the wherewithal to do things that benefit

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Speaker 4: them more than they benefit us, then all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden it becomes a problem.

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Speaker 3: Well said, don't the corporate interests of the American Empire

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Speaker 3: are inseparable from the state interest of the American Empire?

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Speaker 3: And we can obviously, folks, you can check out our

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Speaker 3: many episodes regarding colonialism in the Forever War. We are

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Speaker 3: coming to you with hopefully good news on Monday, February ninth,

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Speaker 3: as we record, the protest have paused. But guys, we

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Speaker 3: have to talk about the domestic unrest in Iran unprecedented.

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Speaker 3: We've got some folks on the ground. Can we talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit about the most recent Iran Israel war.

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Speaker 4: I think we're also talking largely about protests resulting from

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Speaker 4: just untenable domestic conditions.

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Speaker 3: In terms of prices.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, resources, the weakness of their currency, things that you know, again,

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Speaker 4: we're starting to feel over here as well in terms

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Speaker 4: of the things like affordability and grocery prices, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of the stuff that's being told to us is

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Speaker 4: actually totally fine, but then you know, to the individuals

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Speaker 4: on the ground that are feeling the pinch of those things,

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Speaker 4: it's absolutely not totally fine. And obviously we're not in

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Speaker 4: any way, shape or form to this degree, but we

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Speaker 4: are starting to see domestic unrest that could approach this

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Speaker 4: kind of thing down the line. So I would love to,

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Speaker 4: you know, not to put you find a point on

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Speaker 4: it or draw any false comparisons, but maybe just talk

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Speaker 4: a little bit about what some of those conditions are,

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Speaker 4: maybe what led to those conditions in a country that

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Speaker 4: seems so utterly Scrooge McDuck levels of swimming and cash.

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Speaker 3: You know, well, you nailed it, Noel. So for everybody

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Speaker 3: tuning in at home, the most recent thing called the

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Speaker 3: Iran Israel War started June thirteenth. June twenty fourth, there

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Speaker 3: was an official ceasefire agreement. No one in the game

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Speaker 3: trust each other. The things you're talking about here, man,

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Speaker 3: The factors are stuff like sanctions, brutal sanctions. This is

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Speaker 3: total war stuff. It leads to economic decline. The value

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Speaker 3: of the currency is plummeting, unemployment reaches disaster levels. This

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Speaker 3: tension leads to what opposition forces we'll call a crisis

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Speaker 3: of legitimacy. And now we got massive protests that rocked

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Speaker 3: the nations, And interestingly, this is unusual for the government

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Speaker 3: of Iran. There were signs of deep descent within the

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Speaker 3: top brass themselves. Everybody is like the three spider man

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Speaker 3: pointing at each other meme. They're accusing each other being spies.

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Speaker 3: They're saying they're internal threats. These are signals of collapse

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Speaker 3: from within. Now. I don't know if we want to

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Speaker 3: get into the weeds here, but we do have a

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Speaker 3: couple of examples of government officials in Iran right now

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Speaker 3: fighting with each other, which is weird, again, unusual.

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Speaker 4: Which I guess seems pretty standard practice for at least

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Speaker 4: the kind of government stuff that we deal with over here,

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Speaker 4: in terms of officials being on various sides of very

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Speaker 4: issues and beefing internally. So this maybe is a little

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Speaker 4: different than just your average run of the mill disagreements

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Speaker 4: over politics.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, all right, so let's go to Salar Abnush,

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Speaker 3: member of the Parliamentary Security Commission. He demands a crackdown

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Speaker 3: on infiltrators and undesirable elements inside the government, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of people disagree with him. They say that the government,

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Speaker 3: like any other government in trouble, is scrambling for scapegoats, spies,

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Speaker 3: intelligence breaches, corporate shenanigans, and of course immigration Afghan immigrants

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Speaker 3: are being targeted actively by the government of.

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Speaker 2: Iran's so weird. I didn't I genuinely just still don't

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Speaker 2: understand the systems of government, you know, in a place

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Speaker 2: like Iran, that is in Islamic republic. But that is

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Speaker 2: only a term that is used to describe the system.

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Speaker 2: It's it's quite complicated there. There is, you know, a

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Speaker 2: form of legislature there, a parliament, right, yeah, it's they're stronger,

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Speaker 2: there are much stronger controls at the top, right, similar

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Speaker 2: to the way the executive powers in this country are

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Speaker 2: being strengthened and gripped onto like something probably inappropriate that

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Speaker 2: I would say, but it is just it is very

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Speaker 2: it's interesting to know that there are people who could

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Speaker 2: have dissenting voices. It's just there are perhaps different. Uh,

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Speaker 2: how would you say it? Guys? There are may be

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Speaker 2: different consequences for certain types of disagreement.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes sense because of the because of the

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Speaker 4: more historically totalitarian nature of of of what the ruler

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Speaker 4: is ultimately able to do right, kind of unilaterally, right,

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Speaker 4: Is that what you mean?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the oka see an absolute majesty essentially one who

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Speaker 3: speaks for God, you know what I mean. The government

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Speaker 3: up until recently was a highly coordinated, unified propaganda machine.

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Speaker 3: So it's interesting to see folks like Mohammed Manan Rassi

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Speaker 3: respond to a political colleague and say, no, the immigration's

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Speaker 3: not the problem, it's us. We're the ones messing up, right,

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Speaker 3: And this is why global activists, humanitarian groups like Amnesty

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Speaker 3: International are condemning the response to recent unrest. Everyone outside

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Speaker 3: of the official government of Iran is saying that instead

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Speaker 3: of pushing for peaceful dialogue, the government is continually cracking down,

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Speaker 3: tightening domestic control, black out the internet, repressing the public,

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Speaker 3: executing people, isolating itself from the world. And also we

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Speaker 3: have to give a soft note here. Typically when you

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Speaker 3: read Western reports about Iran, you're going to run into

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Speaker 3: the old rule, which is if we like a government,

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Speaker 3: we call it a government. If we don't like a government,

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Speaker 3: we call it a regime.

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Speaker 2: Tell a weird to be talking about this, just living

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Speaker 2: in the United States right now, and just how strong

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Speaker 2: all of these things that we've been taught, as we

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Speaker 2: learn about geopolitics, as we learn about state craft and

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Speaker 2: all of these things and diplomatic relations, and then just

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Speaker 2: to see what's going on inside our own house while

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Speaker 2: there's stuff going on outside h the I think it's hypocrisy,

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Speaker 2: but it's not.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how.

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Speaker 2: It's just the state we're all in right now, with

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Speaker 2: where there are billionaires and oligarchs everywhere doing everything they

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Speaker 2: can to hang on to the power and money they've

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Speaker 2: got and to make more, and the rest of us

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Speaker 2: just kind of sit here and we're the grass, right.

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Speaker 3: I like water. I like to drink it, I like

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Speaker 3: to bathe in it. I think more people should have it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why that became a hot take, but

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Speaker 3: that's what's happening, to your point, with the control of oligarchs,

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Speaker 3: the control of the global bullies. This is a very

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Speaker 3: vulnerable time for so many economies around the world, especially

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Speaker 3: the Iranian economy. The aftermath of the most recent conflict

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Speaker 3: with Israel has pushed the people and institutions alike to

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Speaker 3: a breaking point. So our question is what's happening now?

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Speaker 3: Our bigger question is what happens next. We're going to

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Speaker 3: pause for a word from our sponsor. Years it gets crazy,

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Speaker 3: all right.

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Speaker 2: Protests, dude, for sure, protests I did. I was just

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Speaker 2: thinking this whole, this concept in Iran Israel war is

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Speaker 2: so interesting to me. And maybe I am over inflating

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Speaker 2: the importance of the bunker buster attack that the US played,

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Speaker 2: the little surprise we're gonna attack your nuclear infrastructure Iran

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Speaker 2: thing that happened. Is that just considered the US stepping

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Speaker 2: in to help an ally Israel? Is that just how like?

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Speaker 2: It's so it's the Iran Israel war and the US

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Speaker 2: just did this little thing. The US isn't lumped in

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Speaker 2: there in any way as being.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they got a couple ice gold Maduros. For sure.

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Speaker 3: The issue there is strange in that there was active bargaining,

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Speaker 3: so Iran would later launch attacks in response in retaliation,

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Speaker 3: and they gave the US and Israel heads up. They said, hey,

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Speaker 3: how do you feel we're gonna we got a response,

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Speaker 3: We're going to hit this one.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just weird that it happened on the twenty second, right,

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Speaker 2: which is like right before what is supposedly the end

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Speaker 2: of that quick little war that happened, right, but there's

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Speaker 2: still crazy tensions occurring right now. It's just really confusing,

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Speaker 2: I think thinking about what the sides actually are, especially

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Speaker 2: given everything we've learned about the way the CIA would

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Speaker 2: go through and destabilize a nation, and how much of

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Speaker 2: that is at play when we look at Iran right now,

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Speaker 2: it's I think it's just hard to know as we

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Speaker 2: move on to this next section, what is real?

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Speaker 3: What is real?

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Speaker 2: What is real when it comes to people who are

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Speaker 2: attempting to or without their knowledge, disrupting and destabilizing a country?

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Speaker 3: Right is uh? The recent wave of protest and the

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Speaker 3: resulting death toll, is it organic or was it orchestrated

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Speaker 3: by Western agents? That's a big deal. That's a big

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Speaker 3: question because there is unfortunate precedent for it. So beginning

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Speaker 3: in late December twenty twenty five, protesters were demonstrating across

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Speaker 3: multiple cities small towns in Iran. This is the largest

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Speaker 3: uprising since the Islamic Revolution of nineteen seventy nine. The

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Speaker 3: government did not reply with dialogue, by the way, or

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Speaker 3: regime if you like. Instead, we're looking at the green

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Speaker 3: lighting of live fire on the public, actually shooting the public,

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Speaker 3: not with rubber bullets like in Santiago during their constitutional referendum.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about massacres of innocent people resulting in the

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Speaker 3: deaths of tens of thousands. We're going to keep some

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Speaker 3: of our contacts anonymous for their safety, but what we

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Speaker 3: heard on the ground is that at this point everyone

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Speaker 3: in Iran is either related to or knows of someone

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Speaker 3: who died during these protests.

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Speaker 2: That's intense. That's a tragic and horrible man. Again, just

434
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 2: from my perspective, guys, it's hard to know what's real. Like,

435
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 2: I don't have those contacts, so I genuinely don't know.

436
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: But it I worry that I'm being sold a story

437
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: that would make me really angry at the government of Iran,

438
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: and I know that it doesn't mean I would be

439
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: happy with or excited about the government Iran. I worry

440
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: that I'm being sold a story.

441
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: Right, just you know, a narrative.

442
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: If we've yeah, if we've really got people that are

443
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: saying that then at least and if we can trust

444
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: those sources, then I'm then that makes sense to me.

445
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: Well, let's go back to what you were saying earlier, Noel.

446
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 3: The protests are beginning because of economic factors, right.

447
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. I mean normal things that people depend on,

448
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 4: like we were mentioning resources, water, price of goods, and

449
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 4: normal just existence type stuff. I mean, that is truly

450
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 4: what causes people to riot in the streets when they

451
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 4: feel threatened or unable to live a normal life as

452
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 4: they you know, deserve in a country that they love,

453
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 4: you know, where where they have generational.

454
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: Ties and cultural ties.

455
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: Again, I don't mean to keep drawing any kind of

456
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: false equivalency between what's going on here and what's going

457
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 4: on there, but it does seem that it takes it

458
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 4: takes some real hardships, you know, for people to mobilize

459
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 4: in this way and put themselves in harm's way more

460
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 4: than just ideological issues.

461
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the economics will move the people. Right. So, initially,

462
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: the most recent protest demonstrations they start with kind of

463
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 3: a boycott in the Grand Bizarre. So these shopkeepers, these merchants,

464
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: they say the current currency is trash. Someone should fix it.

465
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 3: We're not going to open our doors, not today. We'll

466
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: stand outside and if you want us to tell you

467
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 3: why we're closed, we're happy to do so. The government

468
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: got super pissed. University students join in. The protests spread

469
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: to other major cities, metastasizes to smaller towns. It starts,

470
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: as Noel said, and a reaction to economic issues, then

471
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: it blossoms to a larger movement to ouse the current government.

472
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: The public has long distrusted the theocracy of Iran, accusing

473
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: them of criminal activity, of suppressing human rights, of corruption.

474
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: Fast forward January eighth, twenty not too long ago, as

475
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: we record one point five million protesters flooded road by

476
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: January ninth, five million protesters, again, innocent people as far

477
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 3: as we know, they were out across the nation. And

478
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 3: at this point, obviously the government is going to say,

479
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 3: maybe the CIA or Masad has a hand in this,

480
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: and we could not find We could find some evidence

481
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: of encouraging things, but we could not find evidence of

482
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: orchestrating things. Maybe you guys found something I don't know.

483
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's just a reminder that we didn't know about

484
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: the Iran contra thing right as it was happening. Nobody did,

485
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 2: and nobody knew the US was training people and doing

486
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: all that stuff until it was finally outed, right, and

487
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: there were hearings about it, and then it was known.

488
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: So I think when stuff like this happens, if there

489
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: is any involvement with whatever am I six anybody, you're

490
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: not going to know until there's some official somewhere that

491
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: decides to either to classify something or holds it is

492
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: part of a Senate hearing somewhere, or you an assembly

493
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: somewhere and they finally state it.

494
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: Or the players are dead. And I like that you

495
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: mentioned m I.

496
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: Six well, and that is not to say that this

497
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: is definitely orchestrated, right, But it's also just a reminder

498
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: that you don't have to orchestrate one and a half

499
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: million people or five million people on the streets, right.

500
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 2: You don't have to be out there or organizing to

501
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: make something like this happen. You have to put ideas

502
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: in people's heads, and you have to be really effective

503
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 2: with those ideas, and then you can make it happen.

504
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: Just going back to the super Bowl, the two different

505
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: super Bowl halftime shows that happen this year, there are serious,

506
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: effective propaganda going on everywhere you look, and it's usually

507
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: to sell something, and you know, maybe in this case,

508
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: if there is something going on, it's to sell regime change.

509
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: We also have to exercise empathy for the very real

510
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: people who have actually died, right and yeah, yeah, and

511
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: we know that we know that there are narrative wars

512
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: eternally to your point about the competing super Bowl thing,

513
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: like outside analysts are going to tell you that the

514
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: accusations from the Erodian officials or the Erodian government of

515
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: western orchestration, they may be a tactic to make the

516
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: military or the guard feel okay with killing innocent people, like, hey,

517
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 3: you're not really shooting or you're not really murdering a

518
00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: conscientious objector or a protester. You are shooting the enemy

519
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: who has become a tool of the West. You know,

520
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 3: that's dangerous stuff.

521
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: It's complicated stuff, because how does a singular ice agent

522
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: decide to kill Alex Preddy? You know, like, what how

523
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: did he view that human being in order to just

524
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: pull a trigger?

525
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: And not how did you other them?

526
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 4: Well, the question there too, is it a matter of

527
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 4: overt racism? Is it a matter of overt othering? And

528
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 4: looking at someone as a person that needs to be eliminated.

529
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 4: Is it just poor training, is it just a mix

530
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 4: of all of those things. I think it's probably that

531
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 4: for sure, not to derail this particular conversation, but you

532
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 4: bring that up, Matt. It is getting inside of the

533
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: mind of someone that does a thing like that. There

534
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 4: are multiple factors at play, and it is you do

535
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 4: have to wonder if it's institutional or if it's an

536
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 4: individual and their particular beliefs and the way they view people,

537
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 4: or if there is a larger, you know, kind of

538
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 4: philosophical thing at play.

539
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: And we've talked about before. How do you convince a

540
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: human being to pick up a rifle and shoot it

541
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: directly at another human being? Right, that is just the

542
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: same as you, maybe has some different beliefs or whatever,

543
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: But how do you get them to do that? And

544
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: we learned about that, We learned about basic training for

545
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: any military and what that does. And there's brainwashing that

546
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: goes into that stuff to create enemies, right, we know

547
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: that governments across the world take great pains to create

548
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: enemies that you can then train your soldiers to view

549
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: as less than Yeah, I mean, that's a thing so

550
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: I just, you know, it does maybe wonder what goes

551
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 2: through the minds of somebody in Iran shooting people who

552
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: are it is you just you know, standing on the

553
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: other side of a fence or something.

554
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, That's why I'm asking that

555
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: narrative aspect is the analysts are saying the current government

556
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 3: is trying to dehumanize the military and the guard and

557
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 3: make it easier for them to exercise live fire on protesters.

558
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 3: This is okay. So if there is a leader of

559
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 3: this domestic protest, you're going to have a hard time

560
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 3: finding one. But there is an icon, the most well

561
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: known Reza Pahlavi, the son of Iran's last shaw. This

562
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 3: guy is yeah, yep, see see the narrative war there.

563
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 3: So Pallavi has laid out some concrete request from the

564
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 3: protest movement toward the government. The chief thing is a

565
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 3: peaceful transition away from the current status quo and a

566
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: quote nationwide referendum to determine a future political system. Wow. Yeah,

567
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: government did not like it, Ayatola said, not a good vibe.

568
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: They just kept cracking down harder early this year. In fact,

569
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 3: we're recording again in twenty twenty six, the Orateian government

570
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 3: conducted a nationwide internet and telecom blackout. This does appear

571
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: to be an attempt to stop protesters from organizing.

572
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's intense when that happens. Yeah, we've gained planned

573
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: on this show about what do we do when that

574
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: happens here? Right when the Internet just is out and

575
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: your phone can't get self service and it's.

576
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 4: Like mad Max all of a sudden. This is like

577
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 4: it makes you realize how weak we are in terms

578
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 4: of like our dependence on this kind of stuff. And

579
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 4: I know that you guys are proponents of the go

580
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 4: bag and then you've got your boy scout history and stuff.

581
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 4: But man, the moment the power goes out or sell

582
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 4: service is on the blink, it really makes you feel

583
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 4: that thing in the pit of your stomach and makes

584
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 4: you realize how powerless we are. You know, how much

585
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 4: we rely on those types of comms and just creature comforts.

586
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: That's why community and goodwill is paramount, right I mean which.

587
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 4: Yes, sorry, I just meaning and community being something that

588
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 4: is increasingly or decreasingly rather being fostered because of the Internet,

589
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 4: because of those very same things that we're talking about,

590
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 4: which could be a way to reach out and create community.

591
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 4: Instead seems to be something that creates this myopic bubble

592
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 4: type existence, at least here in the US. And I

593
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 4: know that social media has been responsible for the ability

594
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 4: in other countries to foment revolution and to create and

595
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 4: reach out to like minded folks, But I just I

596
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 4: don't know. It just feels like such a slippery slope,

597
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 4: and I'm just wondering how that plays into this particular

598
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,919
Speaker 4: situation over there.

599
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 3: I love that you're pointing that out. You're talking about

600
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 3: what we call the third space, a space that is

601
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 3: not work, is not home, is community, and does not

602
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: require you to pay to be there, you know, like

603
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 3: public parks, we still have them. For a second, knock

604
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 3: on wood. In this sense, we also have to note

605
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: a terrible prediction the right to peaceable assembly is endangered

606
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: in the United States. In Iran, quite recently, hospitals were

607
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 3: overwhelmed by the sheer number of wounded protesters. Often these

608
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 3: folks were suffering from grievous gunshot wounds. Thousands have been

609
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: murdered in the streets, thousands more have been arrested. We

610
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 3: don't know what has happened to a lot of the

611
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 3: people who were arrested, their families can't find out. And

612
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 3: luckily protesters have been able to figure out some workarounds

613
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: to communicate with the Western world or you know, with

614
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: sources outside of Iran. The situation just appears to be worsening.

615
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 3: I know, we're all read up on the current death

616
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,760
Speaker 3: toll statistics. Looking like the West is saying it looks

617
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: like thirty thousand protesters to thirty six thousand, five hundred

618
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 3: protesters murdered. The local reports are saying forty plus, forty

619
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 3: thousand plus.

620
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 4: It's unbelievable. It's it's mind blowing. It's mind blowing that

621
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 4: it isn't even as a bigger story. And I know

622
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 4: that it is a bigger story, and we've got a

623
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 4: whole lot of big domestic stories going on over here

624
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 4: that are distracting people from a lot of bigger things

625
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 4: elsewhere in the world. It's such a show. But that

626
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: is unbelievable.

627
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: It's unclean, for sure.

628
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So let's say this exact thing was happening in

629
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: the US, and imagine that we are outside of the

630
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 2: US watching it happen, and there's thirty six thousand Americans

631
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 2: that have been killed by the let's say the federal government.

632
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: What is the way out of that situation or what

633
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: is how can you as a third party right outside

634
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 2: the situation, like, what.

635
00:40:58,840 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 3: Do you do?

636
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 2: What would be done?

637
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: What's the off ramp? You know, that's that's the euphemism

638
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 3: that we deploy in international talks. You know, it's it's

639
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 3: crazy still. I like that comparison. We're not saying we

640
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 3: are authorities. Obviously none of us have visited tron. We

641
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 3: hope to go one day. But it came down to

642
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 3: doctors and medical staff having to assemble an ad hoc

643
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: network to check in with each other and say, how

644
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 3: many people are dying due to these protests in your

645
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: hospital or in your clinic today. The doctors themselves cannot

646
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: put an exact number or the death toll. They do

647
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: say that all sources are underestimating stuff. The government is

648
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 3: continuing the crackdown. As our good friend of the show,

649
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: Robert Evans says, it could happen here. What a weird

650
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 3: time for NAT break. Yeah, uh, And we have returned

651
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: right now. Iran and the US have kicked off another

652
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: round of talks. Have you guys heard about this?

653
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we stated today's Monday, February ninth. As we're recording,

654
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 2: we were, I think February sixth and fifth is when

655
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: there was quite a lot being said about you know,

656
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: those talks right that were going down where there was

657
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: a team of US folks and Iran folks getting together

658
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: in a neutral territory in Oman there to talk through

659
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 2: these things. You know, there's all kinds of positive messaging

660
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: coming from at least the US White House about how

661
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: great the talks went, but then you can see, you know,

662
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 2: details coming for us. It's like out of Al Jazeera,

663
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: the Guardian and a couple other Western sources talking about specifically

664
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: what some of the Iranian officials are saying, and just stating, hey,

665
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: we are not going to agree to any preconceived preconditions, right,

666
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 2: and we're not going to start the talk and say, okay,

667
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: you know, before we do anything, we agree to that.

668
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 3: At the same time imposing the two big preconditions being

669
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 3: this conversation is only about the nuclear question, yes, and

670
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: there shall be no harassment, no bullying, given that the

671
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: West obviously is a notorious historical bully to the people

672
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 3: of Iran.

673
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, and these are the first talk since

674
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: the bunker busters were dropped on Iran's nuclear program, which

675
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: may or may not have had devastating or no effect.

676
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: We have no idea, which is so funny. Again, like

677
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: both things, it's just out there. Who knows what actually happened.

678
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 3: Two bad things can be true at the same time for.

679
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: Sure, right, And there's no real Again we're in that place,

680
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 2: no real what's the best outcome? I guess no nuclear capabilities.

681
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: But then you're back to the oil money and who's

682
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: in control of the oil money? And that's every freaking

683
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: time in history. It's about the oil money and the resources, right,

684
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: and he wants to get their hands on them.

685
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the larger picture for sure, Like I think

686
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 3: we're all also thinking on the microcosmic scale, Like there

687
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 3: are people who are brilliant, right living in this country,

688
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: in the US and in Iran, but for our purposes

689
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: in Iran, and they have kids, and their currency is plummeting,

690
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: and it's variable beyond their control. You know, the power

691
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: is going out and then back on and then back out.

692
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: And it's not a storm. It's due to human creative

693
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 3: chaos targeted at innocent people. This is total war. And

694
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: I think, oh, yeah, I think the West has a

695
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 3: hand in it. I just want us to acknowledge that

696
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 3: there are innocent people. Man, they don't deserve this kind

697
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: of stuff, well for sure.

698
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: So you've got these superpowers posturing against each other. You

699
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: look at the news we've all been following, where the

700
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: USS Abraham Lincoln and all of its glory is heading

701
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: straight over there towards Iran as a threat.

702
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: We know this.

703
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 4: It's a threat.

704
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: It's hey, here's an aircraft carrier. We'll mess you up

705
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: if you don't do what we want you to do.

706
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 2: Remember that time we dropped that bunker Buster, which was

707
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: not that long ago.

708
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 3: Remember that time you guys didn't give me a Nobel

709
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 3: Peace Prize, and so I said, I'll start more wars.

710
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: But it's bigger than Donald Trump. Right, it's not just

711
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: one man. It is the weight of the United States

712
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: as a superpower attempting to impose its will just with

713
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: a threat. Right, So you better talk to us. Do

714
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 2: you see that aircraft career out there? It means business.

715
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: Now you're going to give up this stuff we want

716
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: you to give up. And Iran it's really cool, but

717
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, like what side am I supposed to

718
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: believe in am I just supposed to see everything as

719
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: gray as it actually is. Because Iran is saying, hey,

720
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: you can't threaten us, right, you can't threaten us like that, which.

721
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 4: Is their prerogative and I think the right move. But

722
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 4: we're also talking about a horrific act of you know,

723
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: barbaric in humanitarianism, if that's even a word like. I mean,

724
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 4: I think the way they're comporting themselves in terms of

725
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 4: standing up for their country and their rights to have

726
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 4: energy and dependence and to be able to you know,

727
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 4: all of that stuff, that's its own thing. But we're

728
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 4: also talking about a regime that is brutally murdering civilians,

729
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 4: which is not good.

730
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 3: I mean, nailed it there, because it's it's all about how,

731
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 3: going back to the earlier comment, it's all about how

732
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 3: a conversation her right. So for instance, folks, if I

733
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 3: walk up to someone and I have a problem with them,

734
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 3: and I want to have a quote unquote dialogue, then

735
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: man's man approach is very different from if I walked

736
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: up to them and Noel Matt, I had you guys, Dylan,

737
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 3: you as well. I had you guys in black suits

738
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 3: and sunglasses standing behind me right at the door like

739
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: a aircraft carrier, and I said, hey, just want to

740
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: check in, man, how's that uranium? Is it rich? Is

741
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 3: it enriched? We should hang that's a threat, that's a

742
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: veiled threat. That's harassment, that's bullying. Both sides are doing this.

743
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 3: We're not saying there is any good person in the conversation.

744
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 3: We are saying there are good people being victimized, and

745
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 3: we don't know what's going to happen next. As a

746
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 3: matter of fact, let's check the news. What do you say,

747
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 3: What do we get? What are updates?

748
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: Last thing I just want to say here on the

749
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 2: remembrance part, right, do you remember do you guys remember

750
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen when there was a deal that was

751
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: struck under the Obama administration, right specifically about all of

752
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: this stuff, and then the US just decided, oh, that's

753
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: not a thing.

754
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: Anymore, which makes us untrustworthy because we blow with the wind. Right.

755
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 3: It's one of the main arguments against democracy actually is

756
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 3: if a leader exists for four years, what happens the

757
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: next year? What happens at year five? Right?

758
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting speaking of Qatar, for example, one

759
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 4: thing that I think Ben, You and I and maybe

760
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 4: Matt you had some of these conversations as well. Is

761
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 4: one reason that folks in the US like to do

762
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 4: business with those countries, or with katar in particular, is

763
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 4: because there's not going to be a regime change, so

764
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 4: you can depend on that attitude remaining assistent like into

765
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 4: the future. I don't mean that's not necessarily what we're

766
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 4: talking about, but I just did think that was worth

767
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 4: mentioning because it came up a couple of times where we,

768
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 4: you know, had some dinners and we're mixing with some

769
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 4: folks from some big American companies, and that was kind

770
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 4: of the sentiments, you know, that it's a lot easier

771
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 4: to do business with a regime that is going to

772
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 4: have is going to stay the course longer than four years,

773
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 4: because here in the States the wind could completely shift

774
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 4: in terms of attitude towards different types of you know, policies.

775
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 3: Cutter is also, to your point, no Cutter is also

776
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 3: becoming sort of the Switzerland of the Middle East, you know,

777
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 3: as in a place where parties that would usually be

778
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,959
Speaker 3: Hamburger Helper level beefed up with each other will meet

779
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 3: and have what Corporate America calls a healthy discourse.

780
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 4: Now an open dialogue?

781
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: Right, yeah? Now are they going to be friends when

782
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 3: they get off the peninsula? Who knows? Hope springs eternal.

783
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the biggest takeaways from everything

784
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: we've been talking about this episode is how difficult it's

785
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 2: becoming to know how much of your perspective is in

786
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 2: that bubble that we always warn about, right that we

787
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: that we keep seeing the bubble developing around us just

788
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: from the stuff that we do online, but also like

789
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 2: in my case being in Qatar, I saw goodwill, I

790
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: saw kindness, I saw generosity, but how much of that

791
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 2: was you know, meant to be for the people who

792
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 2: went to Web Summit, you know.

793
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 4: I described it, Matt was like I saw those things too,

794
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 4: and felt this very modern kind of city and and

795
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 4: like very focused on outward business relationships and all that stuff.

796
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 4: But I always sensed what I've described to people as

797
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 4: a vague, overarching, hovering fog of oppression just in the background,

798
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 4: you know what.

799
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: I mean, A little bit, a little bit.

800
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: And in all these things as we're discussing and to

801
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: think about them like it feels it just feels similar

802
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: to me not knowing when avail is being pulled over

803
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 2: for one reason or another by one party or another,

804
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: And at some point you just got to have to

805
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: feel a way about a thing and then move on

806
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 2: to the next thing or think away about a thing,

807
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: unless you're actually, let's say, in this case, actually in

808
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 2: Iran and wanting change and attempting to achieve change, and

809
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 2: to seeing people around you getting killed, if not getting

810
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: killed yourself.

811
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 3: Contacts on the ground have confirmed the protests have paused

812
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 3: for now. Erodian authorities, most recently have arrested four more

813
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 3: people on charges of attempting to disrupt the country's political

814
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 3: and social order for the benefit of Israel and the

815
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 3: United States. And again, most importantly, I cannot overemphasize this,

816
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 3: Our thoughts are with the innocent people, the people of Ron.

817
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 3: So we want to thank all the activists, the protesters,

818
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 3: the doctors. Oh my god, you guys are the doctors.

819
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 4: Oh, I can only imagine a quick question, is there

820
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 4: a similar narrative over there justifying this type of intense

821
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 4: lethal action, casting these people as paid instigators or as

822
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 4: in any way agitators or domestic terrorists, And as we're

823
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 4: hearing a lot of that kind of talk. And again,

824
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 4: I'm sorry to keep drawing those parallels, but it's hard

825
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 4: not to, especially seeing the beginnings of that type of

826
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 4: language being employed over here when people are just trying

827
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 4: to stand up for their rights, their civil rights, you know,

828
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 4: their rights to property, their rights to whatever it might be.

829
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 4: The safety one hundred percent and the shifting sands of

830
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 4: that kind of discourse being something that really really freaks

831
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 4: me out. So I haven't followed it as closely as

832
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 4: I know you have been. So is that how are

833
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 4: what is the line the party line they're using to

834
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 4: justify wholesale execution of these protesters.

835
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: The party line currently is, to earlier point, it is

836
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 3: currently the idea that the protests are inorganic. It is

837
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 3: not due to domestic problems. It is due to Western interference.

838
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 3: So like oss company boys have come in and given

839
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 3: a bunch of people training. That's the idea. But then

840
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 3: also you'll see a lot of folks blaming immigration, specifically

841
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 3: from Afghanistan, and they're saying, oh, it's these Afghan immigrants, right,

842
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 3: They're causing problems. The ordinary Iranian citizen is being brainwashed

843
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 3: by these people. So when you shoot someone, they say

844
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 3: to their military to their version of ice. You are

845
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 3: not shooting and innocent person. You are shooting for an agitator.

846
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 3: It's something less surrounding it, something less American, something less

847
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 3: human than you. And that's a frightening thing. That's why

848
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: our thoughts are with the people. You know, if you

849
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 3: want more resources ways to keep abreast of the news,

850
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 3: we've we've done an okay job. I think of getting

851
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 3: passed or at least navigating and acknowledging the info war occurring.

852
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: If you have personal insight to the situation, you can

853
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 3: write to us.

854
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 2: And one last thing before we talked about that, guys,

855
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: there was a quick detour that I saw in the

856
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 2: news and it was very interesting. I had just had

857
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 2: a conversation with a very interesting, very kind man who

858
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: grew up in Libya and had to move away after

859
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: you know, the assassination uprising against Godafi, and we had

860
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 2: a really great conversation about the good and bad of

861
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: that particular leader, and you know, at least his thoughts

862
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 2: on why that leader was taken out made me think

863
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: about our exploration explorations that you can find both on

864
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: YouTube and on our podcast feed wherever you listen to those.

865
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: But I just saw in the news that the son

866
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 2: of Gaddafi, Saif al Islam Gadaffi, was just killed, and

867
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: the information that's being put out officially through channels there

868
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 2: is very different. He was either you know, killed at

869
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: his home or he was killed in this other place,

870
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 2: and why was he killed? And there's just I wonder

871
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: if you guys had heard anything about that or had

872
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: better intel than I got.

873
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 4: Now that's news to me, Matt, But it definitely seems

874
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 4: like some some somembs fishy there. For sure have to

875
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 4: do a little more digging myself. But that I'm sure

876
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 4: you were aware.

877
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we can't confirm he has passed away. But to

878
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 3: your earlier point there, Matt, the narrative is still solidifying,

879
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 3: and for now that's the show. If you'd like more

880
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 3: resources or ways to keep abreast of the news and

881
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 3: help us navigate this narrative, or if you have personal

882
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 3: insight to the situation, please feel free to write to us.

883
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can reach us an ameriative ways, including on

884
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 4: your social media platform of choice at the handle Conspiracy

885
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 4: Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show. Depending. You can also give

886
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 4: us a phone call.

887
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 2: Yes you can. Before you tell you that just a

888
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 2: couple of things to look up on your own. Go

889
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 2: ahead and check out the Brookings Institute and a little

890
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: thing titled sixty years of Atoms for Peace in Iran's

891
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: nuclear program. It's just a great primer on how that

892
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: whole thing functions because it's something that we didn't know

893
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: that much about before we went into this episode. And

894
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: also Forbes article a brief one hundred year history of

895
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 2: Iran West relationships that just goes it goes back into

896
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,959
Speaker 2: detail about the manipulation that has occurred since World War

897
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 2: One and before. If you do want to call us,

898
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 2: our number is one eight three three st d WYTK.

899
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 2: Turn those letters into numbers, then give it a call

900
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 2: and leave us a voicemail. If you want to hear

901
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 2: that voicemail, you'll have to check out our podcast feed

902
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: for one of our listener mail episodes. If you'd like

903
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: to send us an email, you could do that too.

904
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 3: We are Oh, that's one of the best ways to

905
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 3: find us, folks. No word limit, no guidelines, no rules,

906
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 3: Just send us your thoughts, send a random fact, get

907
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 3: one in return. I'd also like to recommend the excellent

908
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: work of Greg J. Stoker on Colonial Outcast. If you

909
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: are interested in hearing more about the Forever War, please

910
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: check out Greg's work. In the meantime, you can find

911
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 3: us any time you like out here in the Dark

912
00:57:53,480 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 3: Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

913
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

914
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

915
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.