WEBVTT - Dr. Greg Cartin 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.560 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:04.960 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.000 And when I find my ball in a fried egg 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.959 Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg, Friday Friday Bride Egg, Lie, 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.160 I'm about ready to run off of the course. 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:43.839 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:48.560 Friday Egg Podcast. I'm your host, Andy Johnson, and today 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.720 we're joined by sports psychologist doctor Greg Carton. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:54.279 Greg. Thanks for coming on. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.560 Yeah, Andy, thanks for having me. Looking forward to speaking 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.280 and uh podcast was looking forward to being it. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.600 Yeah, for sure, I so Greg. I met out at 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.279 the Players Championship. Greg works with a handful of guys 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:15.920 on the PGA Tour, Web Tour, Latin America and Canadian Tour. Greg, 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.080 I'd love to hear how you got into kind of 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.440 sports psychology and golf specifically. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:29.680 Sure. Yeah, no, it started at a relatively young age. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:36.000 I played soccer and lacrosse through college. Also played competitive golf, 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.360 but not not in school, you know, in the summers 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.119 and amateur events, and was always fascinated by the difference 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.560 mindset between what was like to compete in the team 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.200 environment as opposed to when you're out there all by yourself. 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.200 So I read a lot of stuff about Bob Rotella 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.720 and some other sports psychologies at the time, get really interested. 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:03.520 Went back after I graduated undergrad took a few years off, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.800 and then went back to get my master's in sports 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.840 I like, and kept going, got my doctorate and started 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.360 my own practice, and that's that's how it sort of began. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.600 I worked with a young professional golfer right when I 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.480 opened my private practice, and he had some success and 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.560 some you know, word of mouth, got a few more clients, 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.680 and now I'm here and I work. I'd say ninety 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.760 five percent of my clients are now all golfers. And selfishly, 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.640 I enjoyed that too, because I really enjoyed the sport, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.720 and I think the stuff I believe in really helps 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.839 us when it comes to golf as opposed to maybe 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:45.400 some other sports. 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:51.080 Yeah, I mean, I think every golfer who's ever tried 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.800 to play in tournament golf, you realize like you're just 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.120 a head case, you know, and yeah, pretty much you 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.640 look around, and you know, I always look around and 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.880 I look at like the you know, players that are 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:06.520 a little bit better than me, I'm like, what are 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.960 what are they thinking about that I'm not thinking about 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.920 because I'm thinking about just all kinds of bad stuff. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.720 But I'm kind of I'm curious, like, how do you 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.240 how's your schedule work? 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.000 Do you do you spend a lot of time on 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.240 the road or are you primarily. 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.320 Just you know, do you have phone calls? 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:26.440 How? 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.359 How does it work when you're working with players? 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.240 Yeah? No, I mean the beauty of technology, know is 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.080 you don't need to to meet with people face to 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:39.400 face necessarily, whether skypeer faith time is always good. So 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.800 I have clients from you know, all over the country. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.760 I do. I do make it obviously priority though, to 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.520 spend as much time as I can with people persons, 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.240 so to get out in the road. I'll spend time 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.440 at events, usually Sunday through Wednesday or Thursday. But I 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.680 also have quite a few clients you know back here 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.800 at home who you know, juniors, and some high school 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.160 kids and college kids, and some you know, amateur players 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:06.720 around the area that I meet with in person in 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.880 my office as well. So it's it's a very sort 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:15.440 of group. I have some clients who are beginning, you know, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.000 twenty five handicappers and all the way to professionals who 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.200 have won major events. So, and you just mentioned something 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.280 pretty interesting before this. You're always wondered what other people 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.520 are thinking, like guys that play at the highest level. 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:36.000 And I always start my three hawks with the point 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.720 that you know, if you took thirty of the top 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.960 players in the world and thirty beginners and then thirty 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.640 maybe decent amateurs and had them all right one question 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:49.880 or one thing they were concerned with on a piece 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.480 of one on a note card and handed men and 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.760 you read, you wouldn't know who they were coming from. 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.200 Everyone in that respect as the same issues as far 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.600 as what they're thinking about and what they're worried about 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.640 and their concerns and how they don't get in their 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.720 own way. So we're all similar when it comes to that, 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.960 which I thought is always pretty interesting. 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.560 M So, so I'm curious, like, you know, what is 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.240 the most common, you know, kind of thing that you 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.440 work with with golfers, Like, what's the first thing that 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.560 usually jumps out when you get a new patient. 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:28.560 We'll say, since we're all sick, yeah, right, right. 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:35.120 Right, there's I guess the bottom line is a lot 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:40.400 of our struggles on the course come from one thing, 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:45.160 and that's fear, right, fear of you know, what we're 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.520 going to shoot, or fear of what our parents are 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.039 going to say to us after, or a fear of 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.080 how I'm going to feel if I blow the lead 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.760 or if I you know, everyone knows I'm supposed to 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:56.680 play well and they don't what I'm gonna have to say. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:01.640 So I think, when you boil it all down, a 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.039 lot of our struggles on the course come from the 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:11.000 avoidance of fear. That's number one, and number two is 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:13.920 and as a golf I'm sure you're familiar with the 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:18.479 stew we all And like you said before, I wonder 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.919 people are always wondering people, you know, be more like 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.159 that guy? Why can't I think more like them? Or 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.560 swing like them? Always comparing ourselves to others. So being 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.480 a little bit unfair to ourselves and a little bit 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.640 mean to ourselves as far as how we speak to 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:41.560 ourselves is probably the other major thing that I end 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.839 up talking with people about, because it's just not part 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:50.400 of competitive athletic culture to treat ourselves nicely. We always 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.440 think that to motivate ourselves, we need to be mean 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.600 to ourselves or bearate ourselves, and we're finding more and 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.440 more now. Rooster shows that if you can support yourself, 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.320 you're gonna operate from a much safer place and usually 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:04.799 results will will be better. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.000 You know, it's interesting. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.720 I made a New Year's resolution this year that I 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.360 was never going to tell myself on the golf course 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:15.120 that I sucked. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:17.840 Right that go. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.520 I So it's only happened one time, and I immediately 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.200 was like, why did I just do that? But like, amazingly, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.040 like I've gotten off to some terrible starts and tournaments, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.320 and like by not telling myself I sucked, Like I've 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:36.640 ended up shooting like really good scores for being in 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.760 positions that I've been, Whereas, like you know, in years past, 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.559 I think I would have just kept playing worse and worse. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.680 Yeah, that's that's a fantastic insight. And sometimes, first of all, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.840 it's a skill that we can develop, this idea of 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.960 self compassion, because it's, like I said before, something we 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:00.960 naturally do. When I work with juniors, we'll get a 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.119 chance to get out on the course from the putting green, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.400 I'll stand next to them and have them roll a 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.040 few pots short pots, and if they miss one, out 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.320 sort of get their face little and say, whoa, you're 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.440 a pretty bad hutter. Huh, I can't believe you missed 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.400 that one. And they'll sort of look at me funny, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.120 and they'll go again, and we'll go through the same drill, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.640 and then I'll ask them, hey, does sound familiar, like 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.760 I don't really mean that, but I bet you've heard 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:26.880 that before, and they say, oh, yeah, that's how I 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.800 talk to myself, right, So it seems odd when you 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:32.520 can play it out that way, that that's how we 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.120 would speak to ourselves. So the drill almost or the 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.720 skill that you can develop is this idea of, hey, 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:44.520 can you substitute maybe the way or yourself for say 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.840 your best friend, someone's struggling with the same stuff, and 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.120 now how would you support that, what language would you use? 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.160 And can you start to incorporate that for yourself? And 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.280 that's how you begin that process of developing some self compassion. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:00.840 It's interesting. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.320 It's kind of like I'm a big basketball fan and 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.480 I think you know, Bill Simmons always talks about guys 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.440 that are like irrational confidence guys that will come down. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.520 The floor and just just fire or three. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.679 From anywhere, and they expected to go in even though 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.080 they aren't great shooters. And I feel like if you 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.800 want to be a really great golfer, you almost have 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.880 to have an irrational self sense of self confidence. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:29.760 That's a great way to put it right, or no 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:31.839 fear of what's going to happen if you miss. And 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.680 I think you can sort of lump that into those 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.520 guys as well, Right, they're not concerned with a result 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.960 as much or the fear of missing, because they know 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.960 that they have such high level of confidence that they're 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.280 going to be able to support themselves regardless of if 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.280 they make it or miss it. And if you can 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.480 put that right, if you can incorporate that to golf, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:55.040 think about how much better or how much freer you 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.440 could swing knowing that you had no fear where the 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.640 ball was going to end up. Mm hmm. 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.520 It's I mean, I think that has to do a 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.080 lot with confidence and and everything, because like you have 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.840 to have confidence in your short game because like you know, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:12.080 if if. 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.000 You miss shots in the wrong spots, you. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.640 And that's where you know, getting a ball to a 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.480 flag that might have a bunker by it is is tough. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.560 I mean, so what do you see kind of you know, 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.560 you've got players across the spectrum. You know, what's the 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:30.400 difference between the Web guy to the to the PGA 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.600 tour guy to the Latin America or Canadian tour guy. 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.480 Yeah, I think there is such a fine line, right, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.280 I mean, as far as physical skill is concerned, I 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.280 think you could substitute the fields of all those events 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.320 each week and you'd probably be seeing the same type 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:53.000 of scoring. But what separates the guys I think that 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.360 reached the next level or win events regardless of where 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:02.040 it is, are the guys and that they accept the 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.640 fact that they're going to have all these crazy thoughts 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.920 that you and I have. They're going to be nervous, 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.679 they're going to be anxious, and instead of fighting themselves, 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.719 they've come to this understanding that I can still play 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.360 at a high level regardless of what I'm thinking. And 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.400 that's what I've found the most uh with guys that 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:25.520 I've worked with and studying golfers, this idea that the 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.840 guys that play the best when they matter as the 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.320 most are the guys that understand that they're thinking is 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.000 not going to get in the way because whatever it 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.560 is they think it's going to be normal and not, 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:40.840 they're not going to feel a control. But once they 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.000 can observe the thoughts they have that they're not real, 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.600 they can move on to whatever it is they're doing 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.480 without fighting themselves. And in the end, that's how you 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.120 develop the most freedom. 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:57.600 Yeah, it's so it's interesting and I'm curious how you 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.800 think about, like how much of the role does like 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.240 kind of your status as a player play and how 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:09.360 you think. So, you know, a multi time PGA tour winner, 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.080 you know, who's got like this sense of security versus 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.880 a guy that maybe is trying to get you know, 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:17.880 status on the web. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.200 Like does does that situation. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.839 And like kind of the role of where they are 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.560 in life a play like a huge factor in where 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.719 they the way they think, not. 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.200 As much as you would think. And it goes sort 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.200 of both ways. So I've seen guys who have, you know, 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.920 one tour events and locked on us for a couple 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.160 of years, and they'll wake up the next morning and 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.040 they'll have something new that's bothering them or something new 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.400 that they're concerned with. Well, I better win again, because 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:47.480 I don't want to be one of these guys that 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.240 only wins one or and then you have the guys, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.400 on the other hand, who win their backs against the wall. 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:01.280 I have a guy who plays on the web. He 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.520 literally had to make the cut to sort of keep 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.200 going for the year, and not only did you make 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.600 the cut, he end up winning. So I think there's 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.800 guys that respond to that type of pressure differently. But 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.400 the underlying sort of theme is this idea that regardless 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.880 of where you are, there's always going to be another challenge. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.200 So accepting the fact that where you are is what's 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:29.079 most important can help you to proceed without that feeling 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.959 of pressure. Sometimes not knowing what's coming next can be 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.840 our greatest ally because then we can totally immerse ourselves 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.600 on what we're doing in the moment. So helping guys 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.720 understand that you just don't know what's going to happen. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:41.400 You may wake up next week and not want to 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.720 play golf anymore. You just don't know, and that knowing 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.400 sometimes can be really powerful. And I think that's an 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.840 idea I try to help guys understand a little bit 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:51.880 better because everyone thinks, off I just lock up my card, 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:53.880 or if I just win a tournament, I'll be happy 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.280 and I'll have everything figured out, And then they do it, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:58.560 and then they're onto something else the next week, so 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.520 it's constantly changing. So being in that moment is really 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:02.800 what's most important. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:04.640 Yeah, you hear that. 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.360 The being in the moment and staying in the moment 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.880 so much, and you know, and focusing on you know, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:12.000 the shot at. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.600 Hand rather than the overall, you know. 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.440 Kind of situation. What are you know, kind of your 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.920 strategies for keeping golfers in the moment. I think every 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.480 golfer out there, whether you're you know, on the verge 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.280 of breaking ninety or you know, on the verge of 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:34.080 qualifying for your club championship or the US Amateur or 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.560 you know, the PGA Tour is. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:37.760 Thinking these same things. 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.680 So, like, what are the kind of key strategies you 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.600 have to keep keep them players in the moment? 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.360 Yeah, I mean, try to keep it very simple when 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.760 it comes to this idea of being present or immersing 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:54.760 yourself in the moment. You can't not think about something. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.040 Think about that for a second. If I told you 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.000 not to think about white elfin, that's immediately what you 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.160 think about it, and then you'd spend the next thirty 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.200 seconds or so sort of fighting with yourself trying not 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:11.680 to so this idea that the first piece is understanding that, hey, 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.120 I may be standing on the eighteenth T with this 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.440 chance to break eighty for the first time and start 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.120 to think about what it's going to feel like, and 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.320 that's okay, because what most people think is, oh wait, 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.480 not supposed to think that, right, I'm having all these 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.240 crazy thoughts about what it's going to feel like after. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:27.680 But I'm not supposed to think that because guys that 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.920 do break eighty don't think about these things. So understanding 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.200 that you can't control that piece is the first step. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.040 The second piece to being sort of in the moment 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.200 is not necessarily willing yourself to just be in this moment. 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.040 It's simply recognizing when you're not so recognizing when you're 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.800 standing on that eighteenth T my mind is wandering a 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.280 bit too, you know, thinking about what it's going to 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.320 feel like after. Okay, I understand these are normal. I'm 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.920 going to use this as a sign or a signal 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.880 to just bring myself back to this my shot right here, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.880 direct experience, so our think what our thinking. It's away 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.760 from our direct experience. Always it shoots us up into 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.720 the future and it takes us back from the past. 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.560 Things that already those again, it's not real, it's not 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.520 It takes us away from this direct experience. So recognizing 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:20.840 when you're not present is the way you remain present interesting. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:25.240 It's not this secret formula of saying I'm just the 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.960 I'm gonna will myself to be in the present moment 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:29.560 and I'm going to block out all the stuff that 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.240 I have about the future of the past. It doesn't 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.840 work that way. It's simply recognizing when you're not interesting. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.760 So in terms of you know, how do you feel 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.320 about you know, like the whole idea of like relation 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:47.560 to par and score. I mean like I've I've started 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.400 to think less and less about it because I've realized 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.120 it matters so little because you could be playing great 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.160 on a day and be too over, you know, and 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:58.600 you know it's just. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:16:59.200 A tough day. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.680 But because there's this idea of score, you know, the yeah, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.800 you get all stressed out about it even though you 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.480 could be everybody else is playing bad, you know, everybody 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.760 else is shooting above par because it's really. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:13.359 Tough out there. 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.720 Yeah, golf. Golf lends itself to that type of thinking 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.840 because everything has a label attached to it, whether it's 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.159 a certain shot, or it's an up and down, or 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.960 it's a birdie putt, or it's how we stand to par. 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.679 There's so many labels in golf that you know, you 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.399 hear this all the time. Well, once you just go 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.800 out there and not think about your score, that's the 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.680 best thing to do. People talk about that all the time. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:43.480 I don't know anybody who's been able to actually know 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.760 how they how they don't stand, meaning they're just not 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.199 thinking about score. They're so immersed in the moment they 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:51.840 don't know until they add up. I don't know many 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.800 people that can do that. I haven't heard many stories 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.439 about people who are successful and they feel like that sometimes, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:02.720 which is great. So recognizing when you start attaching labels 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.399 and what those labels mean and how they make you 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.359 feel is the first step in sort of removing the 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.840 power from them, and when you can become aware of 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.480 the fact that when you step on the green. I 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.840 had this guy client of mine who I still work with, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.560 who every time he'd step on a green, regardless of 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:20.520 the length of the pott, his first thought was, oh, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.000 don't three putt. But there's a label right there, right, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.040 and that has something to do with relation to park. 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.119 So now he understands that he still thinks that, but 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.040 now he understands what it means. It doesn't mean anything, 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:34.800 it's just the thought that he had, and he steps 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.080 out on the green. He doesn't fight himself. He sort 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:38.639 of greefs that thought and says, oh, here it is, 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:39.960 and now I'm going to go out about and do 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.159 my business. So trying to get away from that idea 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:48.160 of not thinking about how we stand can be really difficult, 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:52.879 but understanding the sort of powerlessness of that thought in 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.600 the moment it can be really beneficial. And I don't 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.640 know if that sort of answers your question or gets 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.800 it what you talking about, but that's that's sort of 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.159 my feeling that you can never stop yourself from doing that, 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.520 so people do it more than others. But understanding that 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.760 there's no power behind those thoughts really, because we've hit 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.159 plenty of good shots and had crazy thoughts. And I 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.639 think you could probably say that correct. 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.919 Yeah, yeah, I think you know like what I So, 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.400 I had this moment last year where I was playing 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.399 a qualifier and it was at it was at a 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.199 really tough course. They've they've hosted a major championship and 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:30.320 it was like a state qualifier and I'm on the 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.760 eighteenth team and I'm playing with two guys that are 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.479 good players, and you know, that qualify for pretty much everything, 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.560 and I qualify for pretty much everything. And you know, 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.159 I'm I'm four over par, and I didn't feel like 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:44.240 I was playing. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:45.080 Poorly, you know. 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:51.119 And yeah, and these guys are just numbers crazed golfers 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.199 and they're they on this eighteenth t they convinced me 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.800 that four over par is the score that is going 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:04.760 to get out and sure, yeah, before we teed off 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.080 on the eighteenth hole, so like, you know, they're they're 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.479 they're so, they're like, oh, four over, four over has 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:11.320 got to be the number. 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.119 There's no way it's going to be five over. 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.119 And I'm like, so, I hit a t shot and 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.399 I'm in the right rough and I you know, I've 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.080 got this kind of this It's like a green with 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.040 water on both sides, and I like go at it 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.280 from like a spot where I shouldn't have really played 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.760 so aggressively, and I hit in the water. I make 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.000 a triple bogie and I'm just like fuming it and 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.560 I go in. I end up making it in on 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.879 the number and then the scores come in and the 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.600 lowest score on the day was seventy five. And I yea, 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.560 since that moment, I've you know, like I always know 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.280 where I what I'm scored apar wise, but like, you know, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.000 like from that moment on, I'm like, I'm no longer 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.800 going to associate a number to qualifying or a number 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.480 to being good, because like I knew I was playing 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.800 pretty well, Like I wasn't playing great. I had left 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.440 shots out there, but like I knew I wasn't playing poorly. 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:12.320 And you know, like that if I'm struggling to score well, 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.200 probably everybody else's. 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.880 That's a really yeah, that makes a ton of sense 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.320 to me. And it happens time and time again, this 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.240 idea that we think we need to shoot a certain number, 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:28.440 or we play these games with ourselves thinking we need 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:30.800 to get to a certain point and that you know, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:32.520 we'll get in, or we'll win the tournament, or we'll 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.240 make the cut or whatever it may be. But in reality, 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:40.200 like you said, you never know what score it's going 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.480 to take. And then I'll ask the question of guys 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.919 saying things say, hey, how many times have you exactly 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:46.679 what you needed to shoot and it was real and 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:48.399 you went out and shot it or better, And that 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.199