Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a fried egg
Speaker 1: Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Egg, Friday Friday Bride Egg, Lie,
Speaker 1: I'm about ready to run off of the course.
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another edition of the
Speaker 3: Friday Egg Podcast. I'm your host, Andy Johnson, and today
Speaker 3: we're joined by sports psychologist doctor Greg Carton.
Speaker 2: Greg. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Andy, thanks for having me. Looking forward to speaking
Speaker 1: and uh podcast was looking forward to being it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, I so Greg. I met out at
Speaker 3: the Players Championship. Greg works with a handful of guys
Speaker 3: on the PGA Tour, Web Tour, Latin America and Canadian Tour. Greg,
Speaker 3: I'd love to hear how you got into kind of
Speaker 3: sports psychology and golf specifically.
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, no, it started at a relatively young age.
Speaker 1: I played soccer and lacrosse through college. Also played competitive golf,
Speaker 1: but not not in school, you know, in the summers
Speaker 1: and amateur events, and was always fascinated by the difference
Speaker 1: mindset between what was like to compete in the team
Speaker 1: environment as opposed to when you're out there all by yourself.
Speaker 1: So I read a lot of stuff about Bob Rotella
Speaker 1: and some other sports psychologies at the time, get really interested.
Speaker 1: Went back after I graduated undergrad took a few years off,
Speaker 1: and then went back to get my master's in sports
Speaker 1: I like, and kept going, got my doctorate and started
Speaker 1: my own practice, and that's that's how it sort of began.
Speaker 1: I worked with a young professional golfer right when I
Speaker 1: opened my private practice, and he had some success and
Speaker 1: some you know, word of mouth, got a few more clients,
Speaker 1: and now I'm here and I work. I'd say ninety
Speaker 1: five percent of my clients are now all golfers. And selfishly,
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that too, because I really enjoyed the sport,
Speaker 1: and I think the stuff I believe in really helps
Speaker 1: us when it comes to golf as opposed to maybe
Speaker 1: some other sports.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think every golfer who's ever tried
Speaker 3: to play in tournament golf, you realize like you're just
Speaker 3: a head case, you know, and yeah, pretty much you
Speaker 3: look around, and you know, I always look around and
Speaker 3: I look at like the you know, players that are
Speaker 3: a little bit better than me, I'm like, what are
Speaker 3: what are they thinking about that I'm not thinking about
Speaker 3: because I'm thinking about just all kinds of bad stuff.
Speaker 2: But I'm kind of I'm curious, like, how do you
Speaker 2: how's your schedule work?
Speaker 3: Do you do you spend a lot of time on
Speaker 3: the road or are you primarily.
Speaker 2: Just you know, do you have phone calls?
Speaker 1: How?
Speaker 2: How does it work when you're working with players?
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, I mean the beauty of technology, know is
Speaker 1: you don't need to to meet with people face to
Speaker 1: face necessarily, whether skypeer faith time is always good. So
Speaker 1: I have clients from you know, all over the country.
Speaker 1: I do. I do make it obviously priority though, to
Speaker 1: spend as much time as I can with people persons,
Speaker 1: so to get out in the road. I'll spend time
Speaker 1: at events, usually Sunday through Wednesday or Thursday. But I
Speaker 1: also have quite a few clients you know back here
Speaker 1: at home who you know, juniors, and some high school
Speaker 1: kids and college kids, and some you know, amateur players
Speaker 1: around the area that I meet with in person in
Speaker 1: my office as well. So it's it's a very sort
Speaker 1: of group. I have some clients who are beginning, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty five handicappers and all the way to professionals who
Speaker 1: have won major events. So, and you just mentioned something
Speaker 1: pretty interesting before this. You're always wondered what other people
Speaker 1: are thinking, like guys that play at the highest level.
Speaker 1: And I always start my three hawks with the point
Speaker 1: that you know, if you took thirty of the top
Speaker 1: players in the world and thirty beginners and then thirty
Speaker 1: maybe decent amateurs and had them all right one question
Speaker 1: or one thing they were concerned with on a piece
Speaker 1: of one on a note card and handed men and
Speaker 1: you read, you wouldn't know who they were coming from.
Speaker 1: Everyone in that respect as the same issues as far
Speaker 1: as what they're thinking about and what they're worried about
Speaker 1: and their concerns and how they don't get in their
Speaker 1: own way. So we're all similar when it comes to that,
Speaker 1: which I thought is always pretty interesting.
Speaker 3: M So, so I'm curious, like, you know, what is
Speaker 3: the most common, you know, kind of thing that you
Speaker 3: work with with golfers, Like, what's the first thing that
Speaker 3: usually jumps out when you get a new patient.
Speaker 2: We'll say, since we're all sick, yeah, right, right.
Speaker 1: Right, there's I guess the bottom line is a lot
Speaker 1: of our struggles on the course come from one thing,
Speaker 1: and that's fear, right, fear of you know, what we're
Speaker 1: going to shoot, or fear of what our parents are
Speaker 1: going to say to us after, or a fear of
Speaker 1: how I'm going to feel if I blow the lead
Speaker 1: or if I you know, everyone knows I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: play well and they don't what I'm gonna have to say.
Speaker 1: So I think, when you boil it all down, a
Speaker 1: lot of our struggles on the course come from the
Speaker 1: avoidance of fear. That's number one, and number two is
Speaker 1: and as a golf I'm sure you're familiar with the
Speaker 1: stew we all And like you said before, I wonder
Speaker 1: people are always wondering people, you know, be more like
Speaker 1: that guy? Why can't I think more like them? Or
Speaker 1: swing like them? Always comparing ourselves to others. So being
Speaker 1: a little bit unfair to ourselves and a little bit
Speaker 1: mean to ourselves as far as how we speak to
Speaker 1: ourselves is probably the other major thing that I end
Speaker 1: up talking with people about, because it's just not part
Speaker 1: of competitive athletic culture to treat ourselves nicely. We always
Speaker 1: think that to motivate ourselves, we need to be mean
Speaker 1: to ourselves or bearate ourselves, and we're finding more and
Speaker 1: more now. Rooster shows that if you can support yourself,
Speaker 1: you're gonna operate from a much safer place and usually
Speaker 1: results will will be better.
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 3: I made a New Year's resolution this year that I
Speaker 3: was never going to tell myself on the golf course
Speaker 3: that I sucked.
Speaker 1: Right that go.
Speaker 3: I So it's only happened one time, and I immediately
Speaker 3: was like, why did I just do that? But like, amazingly,
Speaker 3: like I've gotten off to some terrible starts and tournaments,
Speaker 3: and like by not telling myself I sucked, Like I've
Speaker 3: ended up shooting like really good scores for being in
Speaker 3: positions that I've been, Whereas, like you know, in years past,
Speaker 3: I think I would have just kept playing worse and worse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a fantastic insight. And sometimes, first of all,
Speaker 1: it's a skill that we can develop, this idea of
Speaker 1: self compassion, because it's, like I said before, something we
Speaker 1: naturally do. When I work with juniors, we'll get a
Speaker 1: chance to get out on the course from the putting green,
Speaker 1: I'll stand next to them and have them roll a
Speaker 1: few pots short pots, and if they miss one, out
Speaker 1: sort of get their face little and say, whoa, you're
Speaker 1: a pretty bad hutter. Huh, I can't believe you missed
Speaker 1: that one. And they'll sort of look at me funny,
Speaker 1: and they'll go again, and we'll go through the same drill,
Speaker 1: and then I'll ask them, hey, does sound familiar, like
Speaker 1: I don't really mean that, but I bet you've heard
Speaker 1: that before, and they say, oh, yeah, that's how I
Speaker 1: talk to myself, right, So it seems odd when you
Speaker 1: can play it out that way, that that's how we
Speaker 1: would speak to ourselves. So the drill almost or the
Speaker 1: skill that you can develop is this idea of, hey,
Speaker 1: can you substitute maybe the way or yourself for say
Speaker 1: your best friend, someone's struggling with the same stuff, and
Speaker 1: now how would you support that, what language would you use?
Speaker 1: And can you start to incorporate that for yourself? And
Speaker 1: that's how you begin that process of developing some self compassion.
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like I'm a big basketball fan and
Speaker 3: I think you know, Bill Simmons always talks about guys
Speaker 3: that are like irrational confidence guys that will come down.
Speaker 2: The floor and just just fire or three.
Speaker 3: From anywhere, and they expected to go in even though
Speaker 3: they aren't great shooters. And I feel like if you
Speaker 3: want to be a really great golfer, you almost have
Speaker 3: to have an irrational self sense of self confidence.
Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it right, or no
Speaker 1: fear of what's going to happen if you miss. And
Speaker 1: I think you can sort of lump that into those
Speaker 1: guys as well, Right, they're not concerned with a result
Speaker 1: as much or the fear of missing, because they know
Speaker 1: that they have such high level of confidence that they're
Speaker 1: going to be able to support themselves regardless of if
Speaker 1: they make it or miss it. And if you can
Speaker 1: put that right, if you can incorporate that to golf,
Speaker 1: think about how much better or how much freer you
Speaker 1: could swing knowing that you had no fear where the
Speaker 1: ball was going to end up. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: It's I mean, I think that has to do a
Speaker 3: lot with confidence and and everything, because like you have
Speaker 3: to have confidence in your short game because like you know,
Speaker 3: if if.
Speaker 2: You miss shots in the wrong spots, you.
Speaker 3: And that's where you know, getting a ball to a
Speaker 3: flag that might have a bunker by it is is tough.
Speaker 3: I mean, so what do you see kind of you know,
Speaker 3: you've got players across the spectrum. You know, what's the
Speaker 3: difference between the Web guy to the to the PGA
Speaker 3: tour guy to the Latin America or Canadian tour guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there is such a fine line, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as physical skill is concerned, I
Speaker 1: think you could substitute the fields of all those events
Speaker 1: each week and you'd probably be seeing the same type
Speaker 1: of scoring. But what separates the guys I think that
Speaker 1: reached the next level or win events regardless of where
Speaker 1: it is, are the guys and that they accept the
Speaker 1: fact that they're going to have all these crazy thoughts
Speaker 1: that you and I have. They're going to be nervous,
Speaker 1: they're going to be anxious, and instead of fighting themselves,
Speaker 1: they've come to this understanding that I can still play
Speaker 1: at a high level regardless of what I'm thinking. And
Speaker 1: that's what I've found the most uh with guys that
Speaker 1: I've worked with and studying golfers, this idea that the
Speaker 1: guys that play the best when they matter as the
Speaker 1: most are the guys that understand that they're thinking is
Speaker 1: not going to get in the way because whatever it
Speaker 1: is they think it's going to be normal and not,
Speaker 1: they're not going to feel a control. But once they
Speaker 1: can observe the thoughts they have that they're not real,
Speaker 1: they can move on to whatever it is they're doing
Speaker 1: without fighting themselves. And in the end, that's how you
Speaker 1: develop the most freedom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so it's interesting and I'm curious how you
Speaker 3: think about, like how much of the role does like
Speaker 3: kind of your status as a player play and how
Speaker 3: you think. So, you know, a multi time PGA tour winner,
Speaker 3: you know, who's got like this sense of security versus
Speaker 3: a guy that maybe is trying to get you know,
Speaker 3: status on the web.
Speaker 2: Like does does that situation.
Speaker 3: And like kind of the role of where they are
Speaker 3: in life a play like a huge factor in where
Speaker 3: they the way they think, not.
Speaker 1: As much as you would think. And it goes sort
Speaker 1: of both ways. So I've seen guys who have, you know,
Speaker 1: one tour events and locked on us for a couple
Speaker 1: of years, and they'll wake up the next morning and
Speaker 1: they'll have something new that's bothering them or something new
Speaker 1: that they're concerned with. Well, I better win again, because
Speaker 1: I don't want to be one of these guys that
Speaker 1: only wins one or and then you have the guys,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, who win their backs against the wall.
Speaker 1: I have a guy who plays on the web. He
Speaker 1: literally had to make the cut to sort of keep
Speaker 1: going for the year, and not only did you make
Speaker 1: the cut, he end up winning. So I think there's
Speaker 1: guys that respond to that type of pressure differently. But
Speaker 1: the underlying sort of theme is this idea that regardless
Speaker 1: of where you are, there's always going to be another challenge.
Speaker 1: So accepting the fact that where you are is what's
Speaker 1: most important can help you to proceed without that feeling
Speaker 1: of pressure. Sometimes not knowing what's coming next can be
Speaker 1: our greatest ally because then we can totally immerse ourselves
Speaker 1: on what we're doing in the moment. So helping guys
Speaker 1: understand that you just don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: You may wake up next week and not want to
Speaker 1: play golf anymore. You just don't know, and that knowing
Speaker 1: sometimes can be really powerful. And I think that's an
Speaker 1: idea I try to help guys understand a little bit
Speaker 1: better because everyone thinks, off I just lock up my card,
Speaker 1: or if I just win a tournament, I'll be happy
Speaker 1: and I'll have everything figured out, And then they do it,
Speaker 1: and then they're onto something else the next week, so
Speaker 1: it's constantly changing. So being in that moment is really
Speaker 1: what's most important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you hear that.
Speaker 3: The being in the moment and staying in the moment
Speaker 3: so much, and you know, and focusing on you know,
Speaker 3: the shot at.
Speaker 2: Hand rather than the overall, you know.
Speaker 3: Kind of situation. What are you know, kind of your
Speaker 3: strategies for keeping golfers in the moment. I think every
Speaker 3: golfer out there, whether you're you know, on the verge
Speaker 3: of breaking ninety or you know, on the verge of
Speaker 3: qualifying for your club championship or the US Amateur or
Speaker 3: you know, the PGA Tour is.
Speaker 2: Thinking these same things.
Speaker 3: So, like, what are the kind of key strategies you
Speaker 3: have to keep keep them players in the moment?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, try to keep it very simple when
Speaker 1: it comes to this idea of being present or immersing
Speaker 1: yourself in the moment. You can't not think about something.
Speaker 1: Think about that for a second. If I told you
Speaker 1: not to think about white elfin, that's immediately what you
Speaker 1: think about it, and then you'd spend the next thirty
Speaker 1: seconds or so sort of fighting with yourself trying not
Speaker 1: to so this idea that the first piece is understanding that, hey,
Speaker 1: I may be standing on the eighteenth T with this
Speaker 1: chance to break eighty for the first time and start
Speaker 1: to think about what it's going to feel like, and
Speaker 1: that's okay, because what most people think is, oh wait,
Speaker 1: not supposed to think that, right, I'm having all these
Speaker 1: crazy thoughts about what it's going to feel like after.
Speaker 1: But I'm not supposed to think that because guys that
Speaker 1: do break eighty don't think about these things. So understanding
Speaker 1: that you can't control that piece is the first step.
Speaker 1: The second piece to being sort of in the moment
Speaker 1: is not necessarily willing yourself to just be in this moment.
Speaker 1: It's simply recognizing when you're not so recognizing when you're
Speaker 1: standing on that eighteenth T my mind is wandering a
Speaker 1: bit too, you know, thinking about what it's going to
Speaker 1: feel like after. Okay, I understand these are normal. I'm
Speaker 1: going to use this as a sign or a signal
Speaker 1: to just bring myself back to this my shot right here,
Speaker 1: direct experience, so our think what our thinking. It's away
Speaker 1: from our direct experience. Always it shoots us up into
Speaker 1: the future and it takes us back from the past.
Speaker 1: Things that already those again, it's not real, it's not
Speaker 1: It takes us away from this direct experience. So recognizing
Speaker 1: when you're not present is the way you remain present interesting.
Speaker 1: It's not this secret formula of saying I'm just the
Speaker 1: I'm gonna will myself to be in the present moment
Speaker 1: and I'm going to block out all the stuff that
Speaker 1: I have about the future of the past. It doesn't
Speaker 1: work that way. It's simply recognizing when you're not interesting.
Speaker 3: So in terms of you know, how do you feel
Speaker 3: about you know, like the whole idea of like relation
Speaker 3: to par and score. I mean like I've I've started
Speaker 3: to think less and less about it because I've realized
Speaker 3: it matters so little because you could be playing great
Speaker 3: on a day and be too over, you know, and
Speaker 3: you know it's just.
Speaker 2: A tough day.
Speaker 3: But because there's this idea of score, you know, the yeah,
Speaker 3: you get all stressed out about it even though you
Speaker 3: could be everybody else is playing bad, you know, everybody
Speaker 3: else is shooting above par because it's really.
Speaker 2: Tough out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, golf. Golf lends itself to that type of thinking
Speaker 1: because everything has a label attached to it, whether it's
Speaker 1: a certain shot, or it's an up and down, or
Speaker 1: it's a birdie putt, or it's how we stand to par.
Speaker 1: There's so many labels in golf that you know, you
Speaker 1: hear this all the time. Well, once you just go
Speaker 1: out there and not think about your score, that's the
Speaker 1: best thing to do. People talk about that all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who's been able to actually know
Speaker 1: how they how they don't stand, meaning they're just not
Speaker 1: thinking about score. They're so immersed in the moment they
Speaker 1: don't know until they add up. I don't know many
Speaker 1: people that can do that. I haven't heard many stories
Speaker 1: about people who are successful and they feel like that sometimes,
Speaker 1: which is great. So recognizing when you start attaching labels
Speaker 1: and what those labels mean and how they make you
Speaker 1: feel is the first step in sort of removing the
Speaker 1: power from them, and when you can become aware of
Speaker 1: the fact that when you step on the green. I
Speaker 1: had this guy client of mine who I still work with,
Speaker 1: who every time he'd step on a green, regardless of
Speaker 1: the length of the pott, his first thought was, oh,
Speaker 1: don't three putt. But there's a label right there, right,
Speaker 1: and that has something to do with relation to park.
Speaker 1: So now he understands that he still thinks that, but
Speaker 1: now he understands what it means. It doesn't mean anything,
Speaker 1: it's just the thought that he had, and he steps
Speaker 1: out on the green. He doesn't fight himself. He sort
Speaker 1: of greefs that thought and says, oh, here it is,
Speaker 1: and now I'm going to go out about and do
Speaker 1: my business. So trying to get away from that idea
Speaker 1: of not thinking about how we stand can be really difficult,
Speaker 1: but understanding the sort of powerlessness of that thought in
Speaker 1: the moment it can be really beneficial. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if that sort of answers your question or gets
Speaker 1: it what you talking about, but that's that's sort of
Speaker 1: my feeling that you can never stop yourself from doing that,
Speaker 1: so people do it more than others. But understanding that
Speaker 1: there's no power behind those thoughts really, because we've hit
Speaker 1: plenty of good shots and had crazy thoughts. And I
Speaker 1: think you could probably say that correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think you know like what I So,
Speaker 3: I had this moment last year where I was playing
Speaker 3: a qualifier and it was at it was at a
Speaker 3: really tough course. They've they've hosted a major championship and
Speaker 3: it was like a state qualifier and I'm on the
Speaker 3: eighteenth team and I'm playing with two guys that are
Speaker 3: good players, and you know, that qualify for pretty much everything,
Speaker 3: and I qualify for pretty much everything. And you know,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm four over par, and I didn't feel like
Speaker 3: I was playing.
Speaker 2: Poorly, you know.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and these guys are just numbers crazed golfers
Speaker 3: and they're they on this eighteenth t they convinced me
Speaker 3: that four over par is the score that is going
Speaker 3: to get out and sure, yeah, before we teed off
Speaker 3: on the eighteenth hole, so like, you know, they're they're
Speaker 3: they're so, they're like, oh, four over, four over has
Speaker 3: got to be the number.
Speaker 2: There's no way it's going to be five over.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, so, I hit a t shot and
Speaker 3: I'm in the right rough and I you know, I've
Speaker 3: got this kind of this It's like a green with
Speaker 3: water on both sides, and I like go at it
Speaker 3: from like a spot where I shouldn't have really played
Speaker 3: so aggressively, and I hit in the water. I make
Speaker 3: a triple bogie and I'm just like fuming it and
Speaker 3: I go in. I end up making it in on
Speaker 3: the number and then the scores come in and the
Speaker 3: lowest score on the day was seventy five. And I yea,
Speaker 3: since that moment, I've you know, like I always know
Speaker 3: where I what I'm scored apar wise, but like, you know,
Speaker 3: like from that moment on, I'm like, I'm no longer
Speaker 3: going to associate a number to qualifying or a number
Speaker 3: to being good, because like I knew I was playing
Speaker 3: pretty well, Like I wasn't playing great. I had left
Speaker 3: shots out there, but like I knew I wasn't playing poorly.
Speaker 3: And you know, like that if I'm struggling to score well,
Speaker 3: probably everybody else's.
Speaker 1: That's a really yeah, that makes a ton of sense
Speaker 1: to me. And it happens time and time again, this
Speaker 1: idea that we think we need to shoot a certain number,
Speaker 1: or we play these games with ourselves thinking we need
Speaker 1: to get to a certain point and that you know,
Speaker 1: we'll get in, or we'll win the tournament, or we'll
Speaker 1: make the cut or whatever it may be. But in reality,
Speaker 1: like you said, you never know what score it's going
Speaker 1: to take. And then I'll ask the question of guys
Speaker 1: saying things say, hey, how many times have you exactly
Speaker 1: what you needed to shoot and it was real and
Speaker 1: you went out and shot it or better, And that
Speaker 1: doesn't happen very often. Otherwise we'd have no worries at
Speaker 1: all if we do what we had to shoot and
Speaker 1: we went out and shoot it, shot it right. That's
Speaker 1: not how you shoot good scores. You shoot good scores
Speaker 1: by this understanding that the thoughts you have about what
Speaker 1: you need to shoot don't mean anything, and you do
Speaker 1: your best right to sort of be where you say,
Speaker 1: where your feet are in the moment, trying to hit
Speaker 1: the shot that you have right now. Not And this
Speaker 1: is what we'll get back. This thing we talked about
Speaker 1: before this it's called in Eastern philosophy, the wisdom of uncertainty.
Speaker 1: If you didn't know what you had to shoot, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be a little bit easier? Or if you don't
Speaker 1: know Sometimes, if you're playing a course for the first
Speaker 1: time and you have some blind t shots, it's much
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's much easier to have us to swing free
Speaker 1: when you don't know what's out there. Yeah, some guys
Speaker 1: prepare so much and then they can't they're not flexible
Speaker 1: enough to adjust. The golf is so much variability in
Speaker 1: golf that they find it very difficult to be flexible
Speaker 1: when they need to be because they've prepared so much
Speaker 1: that it robs of our freedom. And that's the same idea.
Speaker 1: When you know you have to shoot a certain score,
Speaker 1: it robs us of our freedom. So not knowing embracing
Speaker 1: that on certainty is so powerful, I believe. Yet we're
Speaker 1: always trying to control everything in golf.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I imagine it only gets tougher for the guys
Speaker 3: that are playing on tour where they have the live
Speaker 3: scoreboards and leader boards because like, you don't have as
Speaker 3: much uncertainty, but you see numbers and you put place
Speaker 3: expectation time right, Yeah, that it is.
Speaker 1: It does it is more difficult some guys and people
Speaker 1: ask me that all the time. Hey, should I look
Speaker 1: at the scoreboards? Should not? Well I'm not the one
Speaker 1: to jump. I can't make that decision for you. Do
Speaker 1: you look at scoreboards and does it? Do you find
Speaker 1: some piece or do you find some freedom from that?
Speaker 1: Great if you don't, don't look. But that's everyone's a
Speaker 1: little bit different when it comes to that. But if
Speaker 1: I were to give one sort of piece of advice,
Speaker 1: in my experience, we play our best or we play
Speaker 1: most free when we don't know, and sometimes that can
Speaker 1: be a huge leap for guys who play, especially the
Speaker 1: highest level, who are so geared and you have to prepare,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, but you also have to remain flexible.
Speaker 1: And that's something I think that's missing a lot in
Speaker 1: competitive golf, This this flexibility to be able to adjust
Speaker 1: when things are always going to be different.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, it's a it's interesting you say that.
Speaker 3: So, like, you know, like last year, some of my
Speaker 3: best events, like where I played my best were Mondays
Speaker 3: after like I had a wedding that weekend, so I
Speaker 3: like did absolutely nothing and I showed up to the
Speaker 3: course a little bit of hazy still on Monday morning,
Speaker 3: and like I went out and shot you know, great
Speaker 3: scores and sure enough, like they were some of my
Speaker 3: best events versus the ones where you know, I, I'm
Speaker 3: really played well this week in this in this bigger tournament,
Speaker 3: and I was super prepared for it.
Speaker 1: Right that. That's that's another thing that I talk about
Speaker 1: a lot, this idea of novel distinction. Uh. There's a
Speaker 1: great psychologist named Alan Langor who writes about this a lot.
Speaker 1: She talks about the way we can really sort of
Speaker 1: embrace the moment or keep ourselves where we need to be.
Speaker 1: Is adding some novel distinction to what we're doing. So
Speaker 1: the perfect example is if you were to brush your
Speaker 1: teeth with your opposite hand, how focused would you be
Speaker 1: on that moment? Or if you were signing your name, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'd be right there where you needed to be. So
Speaker 1: golf is the same, can be, can be? Sometimes the
Speaker 1: same is that can you be? So can you add
Speaker 1: some sort of novel distinction? Now, again, you're not going
Speaker 1: to want to show up to every term it, you know,
Speaker 1: or having that plate or not feeling a little but
Speaker 1: every time when we're not feeling a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: not feeling great, or the weather is a little bit off, right,
Speaker 1: can you use that to really ground you in what
Speaker 1: you're doing? And that's right, guy. I hear that a
Speaker 1: lot guys who play great when they're sick or they
Speaker 1: have a little injury, because there's sort of they're focused
Speaker 1: so much on what they're doing in the moment, not
Speaker 1: worried about what's coming next because they have other things
Speaker 1: that they're preoccupying their mind. So adding a little novel
Speaker 1: distinction sometimes can be really helpful and that's and that's
Speaker 1: what that is. That's that's exactly what you're sort of
Speaker 1: speaking to mm hm.
Speaker 3: So you know, just what are some ways you can
Speaker 3: add novel distinction when you don't have it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's there's things you can do in
Speaker 1: your routine. There's things you can sort of you know,
Speaker 1: ask your you can I have guys sometimes ask themselves
Speaker 1: the question, hey, you know, how am I feeling right now?
Speaker 1: Checking in with yourself right in the moment, can you
Speaker 1: be right there? Or finding something on each hole that
Speaker 1: maybe you've never seen before. Can you pick out something
Speaker 1: on each hole each time you play? That's a little
Speaker 1: bit different. I mean, there's a there's a there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of different ways, right. It's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: sort of develop enough that daily. But it's more the idea.
Speaker 1: And so people, you know, we talk about pre shot
Speaker 1: routines all the time, right, So you get into these
Speaker 1: routines that we do over and over and over and
Speaker 1: over again, and they're good for a lot of reasons,
Speaker 1: but something they're lacking is this idea. Againting sometimes can
Speaker 1: rob us of the freedom that we need in that
Speaker 1: moment because we can sometimes a pre shot routine can
Speaker 1: have us so much on autopilot that we miss a
Speaker 1: lot of the information that we need in that moment.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, it's uh, I guess that's it. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: something I had never even thought of. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: the pre shot routine discuss hammered down your throat all
Speaker 3: the time, and I think there's so much good to it.
Speaker 3: But like there is some thing about being kind of
Speaker 3: thinking about you know, where you are.
Speaker 1: That's right, And you know, My thinking is that the
Speaker 1: more where we are of what we're experiencing in the moment,
Speaker 1: the better chance we have to sort of remove ourselves
Speaker 1: from not thinking. And if we're on autopilots so much,
Speaker 1: we miss that so again. So people find that to
Speaker 1: be troublesome. But I asked them the question, have you
Speaker 1: ever experienced that? How's it going? Have you ever showed
Speaker 1: up to a tournament without playing a practice run? How
Speaker 1: have you done? How's it felt? In a lot of
Speaker 1: times they'll say, well, it actually felt pretty good to
Speaker 1: just sort of be only concerned with what I was
Speaker 1: doing in that moment, not worried about the t shot
Speaker 1: in seventeen or the green on fourteen that had all
Speaker 1: the undulation just being right there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's interesting and it's super interesting. I think
Speaker 3: a lot of times playing like an event at your
Speaker 3: home course is a lot tougher than playing an event
Speaker 3: at a course that you know nothing about.
Speaker 1: That's a great example. And I you know, you've played
Speaker 1: enough the events and you know, played in tons of
Speaker 1: stuff where guys sometimes struggle right at their home course
Speaker 1: because things aren't they thought they were going to be
Speaker 1: and they can't adjust.
Speaker 3: Interesting, So, like, you know, like I think that's a
Speaker 3: good example for you know, a lot of the listeners
Speaker 3: where they played their club championship, you know, a year
Speaker 3: and year out.
Speaker 2: What are some strategies for you.
Speaker 3: Know, playing your home course in an event that you've
Speaker 3: got like a little bit more pressure and succeeding and
Speaker 3: playing like you would on a normal Saturday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a lot of that pressure comes
Speaker 1: from right like, oh, I've played this course one hundred times,
Speaker 1: it's so easy. But understanding embracing this idea that every
Speaker 1: time you tee it up, regardless of where it is
Speaker 1: or how you feel, it's a brand new experience. So
Speaker 1: being in that brand new moment allows us to operate
Speaker 1: much more freely, and just the understanding alone that hey,
Speaker 1: it's just because it's on my home course, it's not
Speaker 1: going to be any easier sometimes is enough. Because we
Speaker 1: go into these tournaments, a lot of people just don't
Speaker 1: think about it that way. Just think, oh, it's going
Speaker 1: to be j oh, I have the state and qualify
Speaker 1: at my home course this year. Finally it's going to
Speaker 1: be easy, and then things don't go as planned, or hey,
Speaker 1: I usually birdy these first three holes and now I'm
Speaker 1: too over, Like what's going on? I can't adjust. So
Speaker 1: knowing that you need to be flexible, even more so
Speaker 1: when we're used to doing something over and over again,
Speaker 1: like playing our home course, can be very valuable.
Speaker 3: So I think there's two kind of areas where most
Speaker 3: golfers struggle. Is either A starting rounds or B finishing rounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm curious kind.
Speaker 3: Of what your your thoughts are and kind of tips
Speaker 3: you have for you know, the guy that A gets
Speaker 3: off to a slow start generally, or the player B
Speaker 3: who has really you know, who is two under par
Speaker 3: or whatever it is, but really has trouble bringing into
Speaker 3: the house without making a couple of few mistakes that
Speaker 3: they wouldn't normally.
Speaker 1: Make Yeah, I think, I think for sure. The second
Speaker 1: the player be the guy who has trouble getting it
Speaker 1: in the house who's playing well, is at least from
Speaker 1: what I see, is much more popular sort of frame
Speaker 1: of mind, because there's so many things that lead to
Speaker 1: that that idea that, hey, how's it good? I got well,
Speaker 1: I'm about to shoot the course record. How am we
Speaker 1: going to feel after if I don't? Right, Like, this
Speaker 1: is not like go out any day and shoot eighty,
Speaker 1: But now I've put myself in a position to shoot
Speaker 1: a really good score, and if I don't, it's going
Speaker 1: to be one hundred times worse. So now this fear
Speaker 1: starts to develop this idea, and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we've lived out this entire scenario that hasn't even happened yet,
Speaker 1: simply because we started sort of paying attention to our
Speaker 1: thoughts and we were unable to remove ourselves from our thinking.
Speaker 1: So they get back to this idea, can you get
Speaker 1: back to this point where you catch yourself almost or
Speaker 1: you can create enough space between having these thoughts and
Speaker 1: then acting in a way that's more skillful, Meaning I
Speaker 1: can use this as a signal to return to what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, and all that. All the reasons why people
Speaker 1: struggle coming down the stretch is it's for fear, right,
Speaker 1: there's no other reason. They're just afraid that, or they're
Speaker 1: in a place where they've never been. It's a little
Speaker 1: bit uncomfortable. It's a little bit uncomfortable to be a
Speaker 1: few under power with a few holes left knowing you're
Speaker 1: about to shoot your best score forever because you've never
Speaker 1: been there. So that discomfort causes us to seek comfort.
Speaker 1: And in a situation like that, that doesn't exist. So
Speaker 1: our attempts to seek comfort take our focus away from
Speaker 1: what we're doing. So that that, to me is why
Speaker 1: you know, and again you said that happens a lot,
Speaker 1: and anyone who's played the game, is that an experience
Speaker 1: like that. As far as starting poorly, you know, most
Speaker 1: of that I think from same idea, the nerves of oh,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what if I shoot a huge number today?
Speaker 1: Or you know, again, we start creating these scenarios they
Speaker 1: haven't even happened yet, and we start believing them, and
Speaker 1: then we start reacting to that, and then on the
Speaker 1: first t you're so tense you can't even pull it
Speaker 1: back and it could take a little wile, and then
Speaker 1: you get to a point where this always happens, where
Speaker 1: you're a few over after a few holes, and then
Speaker 1: you have to statitude like, oh, I don't care anymore, right,
Speaker 1: and then things start to get a little bit easier,
Speaker 1: and then it just can happen within around and then
Speaker 1: you can get to a point where, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm all the way back to even par I better
Speaker 1: not screw this one up, and then you're back to
Speaker 1: that second scenario. Right. So it's constantly going on, regardless
Speaker 1: of where we stand. You could always think of something
Speaker 1: crazy that could happen, and we usually do as golfers,
Speaker 1: and then we start to believe it, and then we
Speaker 1: start to respond to it, and then we get tense
Speaker 1: and then you can't play. And that's how that's sort
Speaker 1: of the progressions that we all fall on to.
Speaker 2: Almost like golf, it's just the tension. It's getting rid
Speaker 2: of tension.
Speaker 1: It's all it is. Right, So it's helped guys try
Speaker 1: to create some freedom, and that's all it comes down to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't help guys play better, but understanding how you
Speaker 1: can be a little bit more free on the golf
Speaker 1: courses really all you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 3: It's interesting, it's and I think that obviously is the
Speaker 3: toughest thing is out. I mean, no matter what, you
Speaker 3: get these thoughts in your head, and it's just removing
Speaker 3: the tension and saying it doesn't really matter if you
Speaker 3: hit it here or hit it there, because it doesn't
Speaker 3: you know, in the end.
Speaker 1: It really does. It may matter in the moment, and
Speaker 1: that's fine too, But like you said, you're going to
Speaker 1: have all those thoughts no matter what. Nobody's above having
Speaker 1: those thoughts. I've never talked to a guy who's wanted
Speaker 1: tournament who said they weren't thinking crazy things coming down
Speaker 1: the stretch. I've never heard it. I've never heard say
Speaker 1: something someone says, oh my god, my mind was completely clear.
Speaker 1: It was so easy. It was like, I don't even
Speaker 1: know what happened, doesn't happen?
Speaker 2: What A what a your thoughts on?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: I heard earlier this year, you know, like just the
Speaker 3: idea of matching kind of your personality and general demeanor
Speaker 3: to your golf game and and general demeanor on the
Speaker 3: golf course.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's important.
Speaker 1: For only one reason in that when we're happy in
Speaker 1: our own skin and understand that what we have is enough.
Speaker 1: We're not trying to beat somebody else. That's when we
Speaker 1: can be our most free. Right. So to tell a
Speaker 1: guy who's sort of a fiery guy, just hey, you
Speaker 1: got to really be calm on the golf course doesn't work.
Speaker 1: How does it feel when someone tells you to calm
Speaker 1: down when you're fired up?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Doesn't It feels worse? Calm down? What's he talking about?
Speaker 1: So trying to get someone to be somebody different is
Speaker 1: one challenging and two not necessary. Because again, any time
Speaker 1: we have this idea that something would be better, or
Speaker 1: we don't have what we want in that moment, that's
Speaker 1: when we start to feel that tension again. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I completely agree with that idea of hey, you know
Speaker 1: that's simple, right, be yourself regardless of what that is.
Speaker 1: I mean again, golf has rules. You can't be a
Speaker 1: total you're kind of golf course, but to an extent,
Speaker 1: you know, you just got to be real. John Rahm's
Speaker 1: a great example, right, He guys doesn't hold back m
Speaker 1: he's so he is, and I think there's plenty of
Speaker 1: guys would want to have his success, you know. But
Speaker 1: he tried to bottle that up, his head's gonna explode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3: It's interesting, you know, like you know, versus holding it
Speaker 3: up or getting it out, because like you know, people
Speaker 3: are get so you know, turned off by people that
Speaker 3: you know let out their anger.
Speaker 2: But like in the same.
Speaker 3: Time, like you you know, you you have to get
Speaker 3: it out or else it's just gonna steam and it's going.
Speaker 2: To carry over into the next shot and the next hole.
Speaker 1: There's an old saying what we resist or sists and
Speaker 1: for anger and frustration you can it couldn't be more true.
Speaker 1: M h right, So but again there I think also though,
Speaker 1: the anger doesn't serve us very well in the long term,
Speaker 1: so sometimes we have to learn that lesson the hard way.
Speaker 1: So sometimes God will get the point where I just can't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be angry anymore because the game
Speaker 1: I don't feel good. So you can learn that on
Speaker 1: your own, but having someone tell you to not be
Speaker 1: angry never works.
Speaker 3: So so what would you say to a player that
Speaker 3: you know like and not you know, like that run
Speaker 3: similar to John Ron where he gets hot, Like what
Speaker 3: would you be your strategies and like, you know, the
Speaker 3: ways to get your anger out with that. Aren't like
Speaker 3: publicly you know, you know, you know, you give you
Speaker 3: a bad perception.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think right, and I think as golfers,
Speaker 1: especially at that highest level, we we do know that, right,
Speaker 1: Like he knows deep down that this behavior one is
Speaker 1: probably serving him very well and two at some point
Speaker 1: could get him in trouble, right, whether it's financially or
Speaker 1: something right, So, I mean, you just can't do that.
Speaker 1: So letting guys know that there are other ways to
Speaker 1: respond is number one. There are other ways to respond
Speaker 1: to situations other than get angry or upset and explain
Speaker 1: to them what those reactions mean. And again it's a process,
Speaker 1: but again sometimes guys just take some time. They need
Speaker 1: to learn that on their own. But to let them
Speaker 1: know that there are other ways to respond that will
Speaker 1: provide you an opportunity to sort of operate from a
Speaker 1: much you know, more free feeling because anger sort of
Speaker 1: binds us up also a little bit, and especially at
Speaker 1: the highest level, they're concerned with playing good golf. Well
Speaker 1: there's other there's you could play better responding in different ways,
Speaker 1: but it's not something you just snap your finger and
Speaker 1: like I said, tell a guy to stop being it
Speaker 1: doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a process like anything. They changing
Speaker 3: the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's not that it's not just it's
Speaker 1: not changing the way you think as much as changing
Speaker 1: the way you think about how you think, if that
Speaker 1: makes sense. It's relating to your thoughts in a different
Speaker 1: way because we can't really change how we think, but
Speaker 1: we can change our understanding of what our thoughts mean.
Speaker 1: And that's really that's what that's where the sort of
Speaker 1: shift comes from.
Speaker 3: So, you know, I think like where the biggest fear,
Speaker 3: you know, we've talked a lot about like the fear
Speaker 3: of failing, and you know, the fear of missing. And
Speaker 3: you know where I think it comes out the most
Speaker 3: is on the putting green, you know. And and these
Speaker 3: truly great putters they seem to pour everything in. And
Speaker 3: people that are you know, good putters or average putters
Speaker 3: or below average putters. I always wonder like, how does
Speaker 3: this guy make so many putts? And what is he
Speaker 3: thinking when he's putting? Do you do you have something
Speaker 3: that you like to you know, kind of preach of
Speaker 3: like getting you know, thoughts out of your head and
Speaker 3: just thinking about you know, making the putt while you putt,
Speaker 3: or like, how what's your kind of philosophy on putting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I definitely steer away from the idea that
Speaker 1: you need to change what you think because again that
Speaker 1: that'll we'll get back to that idea of sort of
Speaker 1: creating tension, but changing your understanding about what those thoughts mean.
Speaker 1: It can be a game changer for a lot of
Speaker 1: guys to know that you can stand over a pot
Speaker 1: and not feel one hundred percent about making it and
Speaker 1: still make it, because that happens all the time. And
Speaker 1: the problem with putting is it's black or white. It
Speaker 1: either goes in or it doesn't, and there's an immediate
Speaker 1: sort of judgment. If you're on the tee and you
Speaker 1: hit one in the rough, you can still make an
Speaker 1: eagle or burden, but on the green you get the
Speaker 1: immediate result right away. So there's such an emphasis on
Speaker 1: making or missing it's very difficult to remove that right
Speaker 1: no matter who you are, you just can't. You can't
Speaker 1: get away from it. So it either goes in or
Speaker 1: it doesn't. So I think expectation on the green is
Speaker 1: really you know, the first place to start with that
Speaker 1: if you look at the top tour pros and how
Speaker 1: many putts they make inside ten feet. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people are surprised how many they actually missed.
Speaker 1: So expectation is the first piece. But the greatest example
Speaker 1: there is you know, if someone has the Y so
Speaker 1: they struggle with the short ones, right, those guys don't
Speaker 1: struggle with thirty footers or forty footers. Their strokes pretty smooth.
Speaker 1: It's only because this idea that WHOA, if I miss
Speaker 1: the short putt, how am I going to look? Or
Speaker 1: how is it going to feel? So it's starting to
Speaker 1: get to that like how does this make me feel
Speaker 1: when I miss it? And then starting to work back
Speaker 1: course from that you can start once you start unraveling
Speaker 1: that fear. Now it's a little bit easier to make
Speaker 1: that stroke. Now again, it doesn't guarantee you're gonna make
Speaker 1: a putt, but all you can do is make a
Speaker 1: good stroke. It's all you can do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's true. So it's just it's trying to
Speaker 3: get away from the it's just understanding you're gonna miss
Speaker 3: putts and you know it happens, but like the I mean,
Speaker 3: and that's like part of like you know, they always
Speaker 3: say that Tommy Roy and like I forgot the other
Speaker 3: producer for CBS is like the most powerful man in
Speaker 3: golf because they determine what the public perception is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great that's a great point. I say
Speaker 1: these guys all the time. When you're watching golf on TV,
Speaker 1: what do you see?
Speaker 2: You see the leaders, you see people making poses great? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you see him making I have a joke with
Speaker 2: my dad.
Speaker 1: My dad, he's a big golf fan, and we always
Speaker 1: talk on He'll talk on Monday and he always says, man,
Speaker 1: that guy who won, he played great. Yeah, no ship
Speaker 1: he won. So but that's all we see. So people,
Speaker 1: the average fan doesn't know, doesn't walk practice rounds with
Speaker 1: these guys, doesn't see the guys that are struggling to
Speaker 1: make the cup, doesn't see the guys missing three or
Speaker 1: four floors. So we just assumed that, hey, this is
Speaker 1: what golf is. It's making everybody's hitting every fairway, and
Speaker 1: it's winning tournaments.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's why I always tell people, like the
Speaker 3: best way to watch a golf tournament is to find
Speaker 3: like a group of good players, But don't go watch
Speaker 3: the stars. Find like the guys that are you know
Speaker 3: you're you're good, you know, maybe above average, middle of
Speaker 3: the road player on the PGA tour and walk with
Speaker 3: them for eighteen holes, because then you see the ebbs and.
Speaker 2: Flows of the round, you know, where you.
Speaker 3: Know, I'm curious what you think about this, but like
Speaker 3: I think that there's always no matter what like three
Speaker 3: or a four hole stretch where you lose.
Speaker 2: You know, it's very rare for.
Speaker 3: You to hit the ball great for eighteen straight holes,
Speaker 3: and so much of is dictated on like when you
Speaker 3: hit that patch where you struggle, is how you get
Speaker 3: out of that patch.
Speaker 1: You couldn't be more right about that, And that's the
Speaker 1: best you're that's the best way to watch see when
Speaker 1: a guy faces some adversity or when he's a little uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: what he does right, Because these guys make their money
Speaker 1: not when they're playing great, but when they're playing poorly,
Speaker 1: and how they adjust in those situations because the game,
Speaker 1: like you said, it's too hard to play great breaking
Speaker 1: holes or for a freaks in a row, it's just
Speaker 1: too hard. So you really earn your money right when
Speaker 1: things aren't going so well, because you sort of find
Speaker 1: ways to put up a decent number when you're not
Speaker 1: playing well because it's too hard to play well all
Speaker 1: the time. So yeah, and I agree with that. Watching
Speaker 1: the group, if you have that opportunity, can be really
Speaker 1: beneficial regardless of who it is, because you really see
Speaker 1: everything as far as you're going to struggle at some
Speaker 1: point during them out or some holes and everything's just
Speaker 1: gonna look easier. Putts are going to drop or sometimes
Speaker 1: they're going to miss a few putts and what are
Speaker 1: they going to do next, And that can be a
Speaker 1: really interesting perspective.
Speaker 3: M Yeah, I think that's it's like, you know, people
Speaker 3: get caught up and standing, you know, and it does
Speaker 3: require a lot more work.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're gonna walk eighteen holes, you're gonna.
Speaker 1: Sure, you know, no, for sure, not everyone has that opportunity.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you you lose you know, you.
Speaker 3: When you're just sitting on a hole or you're trying
Speaker 3: to watch the you know, the star players that that
Speaker 3: featured pairing, Like, you lose so much perspective because you're
Speaker 3: fighting the crowds and you're not going.
Speaker 2: To see every shot.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's a you know, I think it's a
Speaker 3: really unique because all these guys are so good and
Speaker 3: they all have all the skills and the margins are
Speaker 3: so razor thin that you know, it's interesting at the
Speaker 3: players where you know, I watched Blaine Barber play a
Speaker 3: lot of golf and Blaine finished like, you know, like
Speaker 3: I think you finished top twenty that event. And in
Speaker 3: the first two rounds he had he had like two
Speaker 3: moments where he made like, you know, a double or
Speaker 3: a triple and and it wasn't like he hit a
Speaker 3: bad shot. But then you know, I watched Sea Woo
Speaker 3: Kim his pretty much his entire back nine of his
Speaker 3: of the final round, and you see him in similar situations,
Speaker 3: and that's where he won because he got up and
Speaker 3: down and was stress free, you know, putting it, you know,
Speaker 3: like he was hitting tips to two feet, where Blaine
Speaker 3: Barber you know, makes a double and and that, yeah,
Speaker 3: that those micro moments was the difference between Blaine Barber
Speaker 3: winning and finishing you know, t twentieth and see Wu
Speaker 3: winning and finishing you know tenth.
Speaker 1: You couldn't be more right that the the difference is
Speaker 1: so small. And again that's what it comes down. It's
Speaker 1: it's you know, when you have face some adversity what
Speaker 1: are you going to do with it? Because you're going
Speaker 1: to and if you run from it and you try
Speaker 1: to seek comfort in those situations, you're going to struggle.
Speaker 3: So so with it, you know, is it just you know,
Speaker 3: is it really commitment?
Speaker 2: Is it? Is it saying I'm just going to hit
Speaker 2: this shot?
Speaker 1: The idea of committing seach. Are you hear that a lot? Right?
Speaker 1: Like this idea like you've got to commit one hundred
Speaker 1: percent each shot? Well, what does that mean? You know?
Speaker 1: That's why I ask guys don't know? What does it
Speaker 1: mean to you to commit? Because a lot of guys
Speaker 1: don't know what it means to be committed. Does that
Speaker 1: mean I tell myself I'm committed. Does that mean I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking about anything else? Does that mean?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: There's a lot and everyone's got a little sort of
Speaker 1: different idea. But once you come up with your own
Speaker 1: definition of commitment, now you've reached sort of this new
Speaker 1: level of commitment because I think it means something different
Speaker 1: to everyone. So so defining that first is really important,
Speaker 1: and I think you know, you'd be surprised. I'm surprised
Speaker 1: always when I ask guys what that means? That a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know. Yeah, I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: I just want to hit a good shot. Well, of course,
Speaker 1: you want to hit a good shot every hole or
Speaker 1: every shot. So defining that for people is really important.
Speaker 1: That's the first step, and that that's a tool that
Speaker 1: people you know who are listening can take with them.
Speaker 1: Take a minute and define what commitment means to you
Speaker 1: and write it down and bring it with you, and
Speaker 1: I think you'd be surprised how different it is than
Speaker 1: what you think it is. So but then you have
Speaker 1: the example of guys who you know you can still
Speaker 1: hit good shots and not be committed. I mean it's ideal, right,
Speaker 1: but there's going to be shots where you're standing over
Speaker 1: to me, you're just not going to feel good. So
Speaker 1: understanding that you can still hit good shots in those
Speaker 1: moments can also be really powerful, because if we're trying
Speaker 1: to get committed in a situation where we're just not,
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen. Then that tension comes right
Speaker 1: that we talked about. So for me, I guess the idea.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of obsessed with this idea of creating freedom,
Speaker 1: and I believe it comes from this happiness with where
Speaker 1: we are in the moment this content and it's not
Speaker 1: being a lazy sort of just settling. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a complete excesence of what we have in that moment
Speaker 1: and knowing that that's enough and that's going to give
Speaker 1: me the best shot chance to be committed to hitting
Speaker 1: a shot.
Speaker 2: It's that you being content.
Speaker 3: How how much do you think playing partners and like
Speaker 3: and uh caddies player like, you know, like especially at
Speaker 3: a at a higher level on tour, Like, is that
Speaker 3: because of that comfort you just talked about?
Speaker 2: Is it? You know?
Speaker 3: Is there some Is there a lot of effect that
Speaker 3: having a good pairing and you know, obviously you have
Speaker 3: to have a good caddy relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I think, And I've been fortunate enough
Speaker 1: to get to know a lot of the caddies quite
Speaker 1: well and such good guys, and people forget that. You know,
Speaker 1: if you know your guy doesn't make the cut makes
Speaker 1: the money, you're not going to be making as much
Speaker 1: money either. So there's this added sort of built in
Speaker 1: pressure sometimes on players. Hey, I want to pay well
Speaker 1: because I want my guy to feel good about me,
Speaker 1: like we're gonna make some money too, Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know it sounds silly, but there's there's added sort
Speaker 1: of layer to that relationship. So the best caddies are
Speaker 1: the guys that sort of instill this sort of comfort
Speaker 1: really right, regardless of the situation, everything's you know, this
Speaker 1: is gonna be good. And those those are the best,
Speaker 1: the guys that have that figure. And again, the guys
Speaker 1: that get to know their players well, know what you
Speaker 1: know makes some tick almost You know when to say
Speaker 1: something and when not to because everyone's different as far
Speaker 1: as players are concerned in terms of what they need.
Speaker 1: Some guys need a little extra handholding. Some don't want
Speaker 1: to hear work when they're playing. So those relationships can
Speaker 1: be huge. And again, like I said, I've been fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to sort of see some of those relationships develop
Speaker 1: and how powerful they can be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's you see it. You have guys.
Speaker 3: You see it in in am golf, even like where
Speaker 3: you have buddies caddy. I like, my favorite caddy for
Speaker 3: myself is like I have a cousin who's a high
Speaker 3: school based ball coach and he used to be a
Speaker 3: really he was a minor league pitcher and he just
Speaker 3: understands like what to say and like he's good at
Speaker 3: motivating and you know, especially like when I you know,
Speaker 3: I have a tendency to get down on my luck
Speaker 3: and down in the dumps, and and you know, he
Speaker 3: has a good.
Speaker 2: Way of like getting me out of being a.
Speaker 3: Moper, you know, right, right, But I think you know,
Speaker 3: he has that built in, like that's what he does,
Speaker 3: you know, nine months of the year with high school kids.
Speaker 2: You know, right, So I think.
Speaker 3: That helps a ton, And it's not necessarily you know,
Speaker 3: the best caddy isn't necessarily the best player, you know,
Speaker 3: or the guy that you play the most golf with,
Speaker 3: because he's probably the guy that knows how to how
Speaker 3: to raz you and get under your skin a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's right, That's that's exactly right. So but
Speaker 1: so you know, right, you know how important those relationships
Speaker 1: can be.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's interesting.
Speaker 3: So we do, like this a little overrated underrated segment
Speaker 3: and I want to get into that here. And the
Speaker 3: first one I'm I'm curious about. And you know, usually
Speaker 3: these are like you know, answers that are like you know, overrated, underrated,
Speaker 3: but you know, feel free to expound because I think
Speaker 3: that it beneficial, you know, preparing differently for different.
Speaker 2: Events like, you know, this is a big event, so
Speaker 2: I'm going to prepare differently.
Speaker 3: What's what are your thoughts on preparing for like major
Speaker 3: championships overrated?
Speaker 1: Because it is great it would be to win those events.
Speaker 1: Everyone that tees it up in a normal event wants
Speaker 1: to win, just as dead, So why would you prepare
Speaker 1: any different for you know, I think preparing for what
Speaker 1: the event you know, may feel like is a little
Speaker 1: bit different, like it's a different animal. As a majors,
Speaker 1: it's there, there's a lot more going on and preparing
Speaker 1: yourself for that maybe you know a little bit different.
Speaker 1: But as far as your attempt to play your best
Speaker 1: and put yourself in the best position, you're trying to
Speaker 1: do that every time.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, I think that I do.
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I try and prepare more for different events.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's it's probably not smart to do.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, well it's.
Speaker 1: But sometimes for folks like us, we just you know,
Speaker 1: we only have a few big events and that's it,
Speaker 1: and or we have time constraints as far as what
Speaker 1: we can do. But you want to do like it's
Speaker 1: just saying, guys all the time, the objective of golf
Speaker 1: is the same regardless of if you're playing in a
Speaker 1: mixed nine hole member guest or if you're playing in
Speaker 1: the US Open. It's always to make the lowest score
Speaker 1: possible in every hole. It doesn't change, So why would
Speaker 1: you change your preparation Try to achieve that goal regardless
Speaker 1: of the outside.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: The labels that we attached to tournaments are what they
Speaker 1: mean when the objective is always the same.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it makes sense.
Speaker 2: It's it's just making it simpler really.
Speaker 1: In a way. Yeah, I mean it's because it is simple.
Speaker 1: We complicate things by attaching all these labels to it.
Speaker 1: But the objective is always the same. And I sometimes
Speaker 1: a lot of my work with people is just reminding
Speaker 1: them of that in so many, you know, in different ways,
Speaker 1: but that idea that it's always the same. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: there's very few moments in your career where making a
Speaker 1: boge is going to be okay, right, I mean you
Speaker 1: could probably count them on one hand, where like you
Speaker 1: have a ten shot lead or something and making a
Speaker 1: bogue you would be okay. It's usually ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of time it's putting yourself in a position to make
Speaker 1: the lowest possible score. And it doesn't change from that ever.
Speaker 2: So swing thoughts overrated, underrated.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can give you an answer,
Speaker 1: because again this comes back to this idea that you
Speaker 1: can tell yourself not to have swing thoughts and you
Speaker 1: still might have them, or you may tell yourself to
Speaker 1: have swing thoughts and forget them. You can still play
Speaker 1: at a high level regardless of what it is you're thinking.
Speaker 1: So I guess in that respect I would say overrated.
Speaker 1: I mean, either have them or you don't. It's not
Speaker 1: a whole lot you can do about it. You can
Speaker 1: write something down and read it before every shot. If
Speaker 1: that helps you find some comfort, great, But you can
Speaker 1: also hit the ball just as well with us. But
Speaker 1: I think people fall into this trap a lot of
Speaker 1: times and say, oh, man, I've heard I'm only supposed
Speaker 1: to have two or three swing thoughts. Well, try and
Speaker 1: limit yourself to have two or three thoughts before each
Speaker 1: shot and see how that goes. Our minds are constantly run,
Speaker 1: constantly working, so there's some tension right there limiting yourself
Speaker 1: to thoughts. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think it does. I think well,
Speaker 3: it probably has to do a lot with your personality too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some guys, you know, find out I like this
Speaker 1: to use the term, and I work with a lot
Speaker 1: of coaches and we try to develop swing feels instead
Speaker 1: of thoughts. So like coach will be work with a
Speaker 1: player and they're working on a certain sort of move
Speaker 1: or position and it will say, okay, put a word
Speaker 1: to that. Whatever. It could be. Anything, be pizza, it
Speaker 1: could be screwdriver, could be anything. And that's your that's
Speaker 1: your feel, that's your swing feel, right, So when you
Speaker 1: say that to yourself that you know, you know what
Speaker 1: that feels like, and that's what and that's where you're
Speaker 1: trying to get. That's what. That can be a little
Speaker 1: bit more tangible and a little bit more easy to
Speaker 1: sort of work with. Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: I think that's uh, it's that it makes a lot
Speaker 3: of sense. It's uh So next one is equipment.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like equipment, like the idea equipment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, so let's yeah, equipment, we're going We're
Speaker 3: going very broad here.
Speaker 1: I may be a little hypocritical because in addition to
Speaker 1: what I do and helping folks try to simplifize things,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge equipment sort of geek. And I'm a
Speaker 1: big fan of golf w r X, and I'm on
Speaker 1: there all the time. I buy buy stuff on eBay
Speaker 1: all the time, and I'm always own stuff, and so
Speaker 1: I try to separate it too. I know I would
Speaker 1: probably be a better golfer if I didn't change my
Speaker 1: putter every two weeks, but I enjoy that piece of
Speaker 1: the game. Like to me that that's part of the
Speaker 1: enjoyment I get from golf is the equipment, and I
Speaker 1: love reading about it and I love learning about it
Speaker 1: when it comes to working with my players. I think
Speaker 1: it's when it comes to the putter at least, that
Speaker 1: sometimes a brand new look can can shake things up
Speaker 1: a little bit. But in the end, I think getting
Speaker 1: too far away from what got you to a certain point,
Speaker 1: trying to find the quick fix with equipment can be
Speaker 1: you start yourself down a little slippery slope there. I
Speaker 1: think the putter more than anything. I think irons and drivers,
Speaker 1: they're all so good now, and we're talking about guy
Speaker 1: at the highest level. They equipment companies can basically make
Speaker 1: them anything they want. Yeah, So I don't necessarily think
Speaker 1: that that's that's an issue as much, but I do
Speaker 1: believe that there's something for the putter, and I think
Speaker 1: that's that's more of a personal sort of connection.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of meant the putter. I should have
Speaker 3: have narrowed that down. That's what I was thinking of. Curious,
Speaker 3: he said something that made me think of a question
Speaker 3: I would curious your perspective of is, like, you know,
Speaker 3: these guys that get to tour and then you know,
Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot of cases of like they
Speaker 3: get to tour based off their game, and then they
Speaker 3: try and add a wrinkle to their game that they
Speaker 3: feel they're looking in, like whether it be distance or
Speaker 3: the ability to hit the ball certain a certain you know,
Speaker 3: certain shape.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1: My thoughts are pretty clear cut on that. And there's
Speaker 1: an example and that every time you hear a guy
Speaker 1: who sort of maybe disappeared for a couple of years
Speaker 1: and gets back to where they were or it starts
Speaker 1: finding success again, they usually say the same thing. I
Speaker 1: just try to simplify things, or I try to get
Speaker 1: back to what I used to do. Right. Does that
Speaker 1: resonate a little bit like he heard out stories before? Correct?
Speaker 1: I think we grew up all of us, A lot
Speaker 1: of us in the Tiger era, where he was winning
Speaker 1: tournaments and constantly tinkering with a swing to get better.
Speaker 1: And I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to
Speaker 1: get better. But I do believe when we play our
Speaker 1: best again, it comes back to this idea that we're
Speaker 1: happy with what we have and we sort of wear
Speaker 1: it out, I meaning we know exactly what we're doing.
Speaker 1: It's comfortable to us. It's not a big change. So
Speaker 1: I do believe that for that reason alone, that this
Speaker 1: idea of really trying to simplify things physically or at
Speaker 1: least using them as a guide, is what's most important.
Speaker 1: It was always important and always guys are always wanting
Speaker 1: to get better, and I get that that's fine. Motivates people,
Speaker 1: but getting too far away from what got you to
Speaker 1: where you are can be it can be tough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I think that's you know, you got to
Speaker 3: play your game and uh own your.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, there's such, there's such We're pulled
Speaker 1: in so many different ways. I mean, you see it
Speaker 1: even on tour. Guys walk down the range and they're
Speaker 1: seeing guys do different drills and you know, hitting different clubs,
Speaker 1: and they're they're they're asking about it and constantly, you know,
Speaker 1: tinkering with things to try and improve, and it's there's
Speaker 1: such an allure, there's such a you know, it's hard
Speaker 1: to get away from. And it's always basic equipment. Companies
Speaker 1: are coming out with new stuff every couple of months
Speaker 1: and it's new and it's shiny, hit ten yards farther.
Speaker 1: You know, why not? Maybe maybe that's the secret. So
Speaker 1: so fighting that can be really difficult for guys, but
Speaker 1: I do believe that, like you said, yeah, owning what
Speaker 1: you do is really important.
Speaker 3: So you got to talk to all these world class
Speaker 3: golfers and and you know, you you.
Speaker 2: You probably learn a lot yourself.
Speaker 3: But like, who's the one guy, whether he's you know,
Speaker 3: playing actively now or whether he's you know, he's kind
Speaker 3: of past his playing days, who's the guy that you'd
Speaker 3: like to have like a weekly or monthly conversation about
Speaker 3: golf with that you don't get to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, tiger Woods would be the unanimous or
Speaker 1: would be the easy answer for a guy who found
Speaker 1: so much success under such a microscope, That would, to me,
Speaker 1: would be the ultimate to to get a peek into
Speaker 1: that sort of world. But current now, guys that are
Speaker 1: playing with Like, I really am a fan of how
Speaker 1: DJ plays. People say he doesn't he looks like he
Speaker 1: doesn't care and so, but he absolutely does. But he's
Speaker 1: been able to overcome such adversity. I mean, all the
Speaker 1: things that have happened to him in majors where he's
Speaker 1: played poorly for it also was you know, social issues,
Speaker 1: everything that's sort of you know, gone against him. He's
Speaker 1: found a way to succeed. And that, to me is
Speaker 1: really impressive. And that's another guy that now that I
Speaker 1: think what he's done is quite admirable and a lot
Speaker 1: of people should look to that guy as a model
Speaker 1: in terms of how you face adversity and how you
Speaker 1: overcome it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like everybody like the easy storyline is like, oh,
Speaker 3: DJ doesn't really work that hard. It's like, you know,
Speaker 3: like you don't get to world number one if you
Speaker 3: don't work hard, you.
Speaker 1: Know, right, And hard work is sort of this is
Speaker 1: there's a big misconception. Hard work doesn't necessarily mean going
Speaker 1: in the range for eight hours and beaten balls. Hard
Speaker 1: work is finding what works for you, right, whether that's
Speaker 1: hitting balls for ten minutes or its hitting whatever. But
Speaker 1: he's he's found that and he does care, I guarantee you,
Speaker 1: I know, for fat right, and he works at it
Speaker 1: whatever that means to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's found his his piece.
Speaker 3: And I think like that his his mentality on the
Speaker 3: golf course, Like I mean I always look at that
Speaker 3: and be like, god like, it just doesn't look.
Speaker 2: Like he like he feels so in peace with what
Speaker 2: he's doing.
Speaker 1: You know, he does, and it's almost more fun it
Speaker 1: selfishly not for him to see him when's struggling, not
Speaker 1: much changes and he's really good. It's just the meanor
Speaker 1: is fantastic and obviously don't know what's going on inside
Speaker 1: his head, but he just projects this sense of freedom
Speaker 1: that that's to me is like that's gold.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's he's a he's in very interesting study
Speaker 3: and watching him hit a golf ball is pretty unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Also, Yeah, he's also a physical freak. I mean, he's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: He can do and I mean freaking the nicest sense
Speaker 1: of the word. And it's it's fat it's but like
Speaker 1: you said, it's fascinating to watch.
Speaker 3: So hey, we we appreciate uh you coming on, it
Speaker 3: was uh it was fun.
Speaker 2: Talk. We'll have to we'll have to do it again.
Speaker 3: Everybody can find uh, Greg, you're on Twitter, It's at
Speaker 3: GC three Greg, and then any any other way people
Speaker 3: can can get get reached out to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I have a website with my contact information
Speaker 1: at least not a whole lot of information just now
Speaker 1: mindful mindset dot com. H And I'm also on Instagram
Speaker 1: and trying to get some more content up there. I'm
Speaker 1: sort of behind the times when it comes to social media,
Speaker 1: but same address on on Instagram GC three Greg.
Speaker 2: Yeah you got. I don't know what your Instagram strategy
Speaker 2: should be.
Speaker 1: I'll think about a lot of stuff on there is
Speaker 1: pictures of my kids and a couple of golf stuff.
Speaker 1: But so I gotta, uh, I gotta, I gotta get
Speaker 1: that ramped up a little bit.
Speaker 2: Maybe quotes, you know, quotes could be cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually not a bad idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they look into.
Speaker 2: That interesting little thoughts that people could take, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I liked it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we.
Speaker 3: Appreciate you coming on and uh look forward to keeping
Speaker 3: in touch.
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed you
Speaker 1: and uh that'sk of luck with the podcast and we
Speaker 1: would love to come back