1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: What kind of pope does the world need. We'll tell 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: you what we've heard from the cardinals here in Rome 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: and over the last twelve years, what we've observed. The 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: Conclave Crew has a sketch of the next pope coming up. 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to this Arroyo Grande series, The Conclave Crew, Vatican Edition, 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: Episode four. This episode is brought to you by our 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: friends at Taylor Fragone Capital Management, Faith, Family and Finances. 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: Visit them at taylorfragone dot com. Let's convene the crew. 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray, Canon lawyer of the Archdiocese of New York, 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 1: Robert Royal, editor in chief of The Catholic Thing dot org, 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: and I'm Raymond Arroyo. Later in the show, we'll be 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: joined by Vatican expert Ed Penton. Go subscribe to the 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande podcast now on iHeart, Apples, Spotify where you 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and on YouTube at a Royo Grande 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: Show and like this episode, be kind like it. The 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: cardinals met in the Pollinge Chapel earlier today for a 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: group prayer. Then all one hundred and thirty three of 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: them posessed into the Sistine Chapel, which will be the 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: site of the conclave, they swore an oath, and then 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: Archbishop Diego Raveri yelled in Latin everyone out, sealing them away. 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: As this college of cardinals has been sealed away to 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: elect a pope since twelve seventy four. I want to 23 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: talk about the shape of who that pope might be. 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: But first the historic precedent. People forget. This is the 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: election of Saint Peter's successor, the Apostle, the first Apostle 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: his stand in if you will. Cardinal Ray admonished these 27 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: men this morning as they all met for Mass in 28 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: Saint Peter's Basilica. He urged them to turn their attention 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: to Jesus the Judge, to inspire them to select the 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: right man to give the keys of heaven. What does 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: that mean, Father Murray? And why does Peter remain real 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: Evan and the pope all these years later, two thousand 33 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: years after the first Pope Saint Peter. 34 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: The key symbol as actually goes back to the Old Testament. 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: So the keeper of the keys was sort of the 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: vice king in this sense. You know, the king gave 37 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: his power to the keyholder to let in and out 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: of the palace, and Jesus gave the power of the 39 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: keys to Saint Peter. He is the chief of the apostles. 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: He's the rock upon which Christ built the Church. So 41 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: he has the power of Christ to bind and to loose. 42 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: So that basically symbolizes that the Church carries out, through 43 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 2: Saint Peter, a divine function of opening the doors of 44 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: Heaven through the administration of the sacraments and the preaching 45 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: of the Gospel. So it's a very symbolic thing. That's 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: why the keys are actually one of the main symbols 47 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: you'll see engraved all around Rome and the buildings and 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: different places where the Holy Father's activities are read out. 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, do you want to emphasize anything there that 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: this is this is really an apostolic election. It's not 51 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: a political fight. It's not a political and regional war about, 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, who should be in charge of the Catholic Church. 53 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: It is a spiritual charge that goes deep, deep into 54 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: the history and certainly to the roots of history of Christianity. 55 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it isn't even in a way although you 56 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 3: have to take into account the personality of the person 57 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: who is about to be elected. I mean, obviously popes 58 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: like every human being have personality traits, but this is 59 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 3: not a matter of persons. This is not a respector 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 3: of persons. This is an office that has to be 61 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: engaged with personally. We talked about yesterday that the Pope 62 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: the person, does not become Pope merely by receiving the 63 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: proper number of votes, but must also accept it and 64 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: take on that responsibility. And I think some of the 65 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: commentary I've seen this past week really tries to emphasize 66 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: that there were obviously juge Bergolio was a very personable man, 67 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: but he relatively neglected the office of Peter. And I 68 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: think that the Pope's the cardinals who are electing the 69 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: next pope maybe thinking precisely about why it is that 70 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: the petrine office ought to maybe be given a little 71 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: bit more emphasis than it has recently. 72 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: Bob and Father, you saw this new CBS poll, like 73 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: anybody cares, but I have to run it down because 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: it's getting such coverage. Forty two percent of those polls 75 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: said they claim to be Catholics. The next Pope should 76 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: continue the teachings of Pope. France's thirty seven percent want 77 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: more conservative teachings, twenty one percent want more progressive teachings, Bob, 78 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: My first question, who are these alleged Catholics? 79 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: Well, as we know, you know, we've been around the 80 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 3: block on this many times. One of the problems with 81 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: doing polls like this is do they talk to Catholics 82 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: who go to Mass, who go to confession, who takes 83 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: seriously what the church teaches. Once you dig into that, 84 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 3: you get a very much different picture of what Catholics 85 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: want and what they don't want. I would tend to 86 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: think that the people who are in favor of a 87 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 3: change or in favor of a greater emphasis on what 88 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: Francis did, pay more attention to what goes on in room. 89 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 3: But my sense is that by and large most Catholics don't. 90 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 3: They get a favorable or unfavorable view of who the 91 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: pope is, and they mostly would respond to a poll 92 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: like that. I'm encouraged that thirty seven percent saying that 93 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 3: they would like to have a bit of a change father. 94 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: This poll alleges it again, it alleges that Catholics want 95 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: the church to change its position on birth control. Seventy 96 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: nine percent want that, fifty seven percent want married priests, 97 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: fifty six percent want female priests. My answer would be 98 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: there are many communions where these things are already offered. 99 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: But explain why the church isn't governed by polls. 100 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, the church is based on the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus, 101 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: before he ascended in heaven, commissioned the Twelve Apostles to 102 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: propagate the religion of Christianity christ teaching, and he established 103 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: as a hierarchical church, meaning that it had appointed leaders 104 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: who are shepherds. So we have bishops, priests, and deacons. 105 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: And then from the bishops, the Bishop of Rome is 106 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: the vicar of Christ. He's the universal shepherd. So the 107 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: pope rules over the church in union with and working 108 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: with the bishop's priests and deacons. 109 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 1: But right there you have it. The church. 110 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 2: The apostles didn't get together when they said Jesus is gone, 111 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 2: What are we going to do? Let's form an organization 112 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: to propagate his memory. If they founded that, then they 113 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: could change the bylaws anytime they had a majority at 114 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: the board meeting. 115 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: No. 116 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: I mean this is a religion that was given by 117 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: God to the people, and specifically to the baptize the 118 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: people who followed Christ. As a result, the job of 119 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: any teacher is to accurately convey the message that they 120 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: have received. And that's really why the printificate of Pope 121 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: Francis was so controversial, because he said and did things 122 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: that none of his predecessor had ever done, and then 123 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: when questioned about it, he'd never really offered a robust justification. 124 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: He simply said, we're not changing anything. We're just basically 125 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: putting a new way of being a Christian in place, 126 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: and that a lot of people find, including me, very 127 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: inadequate and needing to be revised. 128 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: I mean, Bob, there are a lot of Catholics who 129 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: have that understanding that well, if we just get enough 130 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: of us, well, this is what the whole Sonatal way 131 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: is about. I mean, the Senate is really let's pack 132 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 1: the invitees that we like who agree with us ideologically, 133 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: and then we can change the bylaws, we can shift 134 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: the doctrine. And you were right that CBS does concede. 135 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,559 Speaker 1: If you go down to the bottom of the article 136 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: in this poll they did, they can see that a 137 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: smaller group of those Catholics who attend Mass a few 138 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: times a month think the church is in touch with 139 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: the needs of the people. The non church attendees believe 140 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: it's out of touch, So I'll give you last word 141 00:07:59,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: on this. 142 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, you know, in America in particular, a lot 143 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: of people are Catholic in name and Protestant in belief, 144 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: because we believe that Christ did us a great favor, 145 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: a great grace, a great mercy in leaving us an 146 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 3: institution that helps us to understand what he taught and 147 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: has a continuity going back to his closest collaborators as 148 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 3: colleagues among the apostles. By contrast, Protestants kind of think 149 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: it's solo scriptura, sola vide, that they make it up 150 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: on their own. Well, if you think about this for 151 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: a second, this really means that there is no firm teaching, 152 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: that there is no authority that tells. 153 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: You what to do. 154 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I read a book once and when I 155 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: just looked into the fifteenth century, sixteenth century when the 156 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 3: Protestant Reformation started, within just a few decades, there were 157 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty or more different theories of what 158 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 3: the Eucharist was. So, look, it's a great thing to 159 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 3: have a church that we can rely on. There can 160 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,719 Speaker 3: still be debates in the church about how exactly we 161 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 3: receive things at this moment in history, but the basics 162 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 3: of the faith have been laid out, and if we 163 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: don't have a church, then probably we don't really have Christianity. 164 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: M okay, let's talk about the next pope. Qualities you 165 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: believe he must have informed by what you're hearing as 166 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: well as what we've seen over the last couple of decades, 167 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: really thirty years covering a series of pontificates draw sketch 168 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: for us. First up doctrine. There seems to be a 169 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: lot of doctrinal confusion out there in the wake of 170 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: the Francis pontificate. Cardinal after cardinal has mentioned, and I'll 171 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: quote from my notes, chaos, rampant confusion, doctrinal incoherency. Father, 172 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: Why are they saying that? And what must the next 173 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: Pope do? 174 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: They're saying that because Pope Francis regrettably said things that 175 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: contradicted previous church teaching. For instance, he said, divorced and 176 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: remarried people who who do not have an omen are 177 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: entitled to receive communion in particular cases, but who decides 178 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: which other particular cases? 179 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: So that was never taught. 180 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: Adultery is a mortal sin, and those who are in 181 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: an adulterous relationship are objectively in a serious sin, so 182 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: they should not be allowed to receive community. That's what 183 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: it was taught by John Paul, the second in Benedict. 184 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: Pope Francis regrettably said that homosexual couples and I put 185 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: note exactly what was in the document, homosexual couples can 186 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: be blessed by the priest. Well, we never said that 187 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: anybody can be blessed, and we don't ask people before 188 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: we bless them whether what their particular state in life is. 189 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: But when few people come together and say we're in 190 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: a romantic and sexual relationship and we're in the same 191 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: sex and we want to be blessed, her says, no, 192 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 2: that's not blessible because that kind of relationship is immoral. 193 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: Similarly to Pope said that the death penalty is a 194 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: violation of human rights. It's an unjust act of vengeance. 195 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: The church is never taught that is taught that it's 196 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: moral and cases of grave crime. And then lastly, the 197 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: Pope said that all religions are paths to God. He 198 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: said that when he was in Indonesia, and that the 199 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 2: Church has never taught we say that men are searching 200 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: on different paths to arrive at God, but that God 201 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: has given us only one path, his son Jesus Christ, 202 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: who said I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. 203 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 2: Those are just four examples of things that he said 204 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: which are very unsettling because the Church has never said 205 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: those things. So I think the next pope for me 206 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: prime quality required doctrinal orthodoxy and anability to explain and 207 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: defend and promote the teaching of the church. 208 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: Bob, do you want to amplify anything there at anything there? 209 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, just one point I've been reading lately about the 210 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: nature of what's called managerialism. It's the theory of how 211 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: you manage an organization, and people who practice this by 212 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 3: and large emphasized process over results. And so what we've 213 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: seen with the Sonatyl Church is the one And yes, 214 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: it is kind of affirmed and it is left. You know, 215 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 3: LGBT is more morally outside of Christianity, but we need 216 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 3: to also be close and maybe be discussing where. But 217 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: that's this kind of managerial where you don't actually have 218 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 3: to tell some people yes and other people know. And 219 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 3: a church that operates like that, even if it doesn't 220 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: explicitly contradict the Gospels, or if it doesn't explicitly say 221 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 3: that when Jesus says, no man comes to the Father 222 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 3: except through me, it gives the impression because the conversation 223 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 3: keeps going on and on and on, and the process 224 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: itself begins to tell you will you know maybe someday? 225 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 3: And I think that that even if you, I wouldn't 226 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 3: defend every word that France has put down in some 227 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 3: of these controversial places by any means. But even if 228 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: a person wanted to defend that, he would have to 229 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 3: admit that there is this additional sense of constantly being 230 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 3: on the brink of changing something, and that was deliberately cultivated. 231 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 1: Auble haha, father speak, if you will to what we're hearing. 232 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: We heard this repeatedly throughout the last week or so. 233 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: It seems the cardinals are very interested in restoring canon law, 234 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: the norms that were once in place. Now. This is 235 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: one of the reasons people are looking to Cardinals Airdo 236 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: and Mamberti, both esteemed canonists, who could certainly speak to 237 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: this concern. They think they could restore the canonical norms. 238 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: Where are we now and what should the next pope do? 239 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: Why are they so alarmed about this? 240 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 4: Yeah? 241 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: Canon law is a set of rules that the Catholic 242 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: Church operates under. Canon law has origins going way back 243 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: to the beginning of the church. So the Catholic Church 244 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: views itself as an institution with sovereignty. In other words, 245 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: it rules with God's authority over the people. And part 246 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 2: of being a sovereign is you establish a set of 247 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: laws and then you enforce those laws. Because laws promote 248 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: so justice, they protect protection of the rights of people, 249 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: good order, all the things necessary people to flourish. Now, 250 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: Pope Francis ignored Canon law in many instances. I could 251 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: go into specifics, but it would be too boring. But 252 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: it was notorious for ignoring the law, or giving dispensations 253 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: or enacting things apart from the law. So one example 254 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: was he threw out some members of a religious congregation 255 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 2: without due process. 256 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: They got a letter. 257 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 2: Saying you're no longer a member. 258 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: They never had the You know, in. 259 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: Canon law you can throw people at religious or for 260 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: just cause, but they have a right to defense. So 261 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: you have to issue a process. We're going to investigate, 262 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: We're going to hear the evidence. We're going to present 263 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: the evidence to the accused. The accused as a right 264 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: to respond. Then the judge makes a judge in this case, 265 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: the pope's an investigator and just issued a decree. So 266 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: what we need in the Catholic Church is let's have 267 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: social order through the faithful observance of the rules that 268 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: are set down in advance in canon law. 269 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: Want to move on to a liberal website, publish something 270 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: called the Sins of Pope Francis, and among them were 271 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to run through these, an authoritarian exercise of power, 272 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: a devaluation of the church heritage. How can the next 273 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: pope restore that mob and what might that man bring 274 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: to the table to restore those particular concerns. 275 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: Boy, that's an interesting list from a I'm just skimming. 276 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: Well. 277 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 3: Look for me, I think one of the most important 278 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 3: things symbolically he could do would be to bring back 279 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: the traditional Latin Mass, because in one fell swoop that 280 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: kind of says, look, we are still back in continuity 281 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 3: with the church. You know, as our friend Richard John 282 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: Newhouse used to say, boy, there's a lot of church 283 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 3: history before Vatican too. And so if you're going to 284 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 3: basic the contemporary Catholic Church solely on what's happened in 285 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 3: the last fifty sixty years, you're really cutting yourself off 286 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: from a very great richness. And Vatican two talked about 287 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 3: two things. People forget this. They talked about a jornamento, 288 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 3: which is an Italian word that means an updating, but 289 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: it also talked about russo small, which means going back 290 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: to the early church fathers and really deep digging into 291 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 3: the ways that they thought, that the way that they spoke, 292 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 3: why is it that they gave us the tradition that 293 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: we have. And so you can do both things at once. 294 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 3: You can engage the modern world but also be looking 295 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: more deeply back into your own tradition. For me, that 296 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: is what the play of faith and reason always does 297 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: in the modern world, and we were lacking that. I 298 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: think that there was an emphasis on reaching out that 299 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 3: was good, but there was an over. 300 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 4: Emphasis on that. 301 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 3: And what we need to do is to restore a 302 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 3: balance where we say, yes, we're willing to talk with you, 303 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: we're willing to welcome you, but this is who we 304 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 3: are and understand in the conversation that when you talk 305 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: with the Catholic Church, we don't just make it up 306 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: from day to day. We don't just tell you what 307 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: you want to hear. We're here for the long run. 308 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: We've been here for a long time, and we tend 309 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: to be here for a long time into the future. 310 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: What do you expect this next pope to do vis 311 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: a vis the liturgy? I mean, Bob talked about the 312 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: suppression of the old right, the old Roman right, the 313 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: trident Team, Latin Mass, and really, but there was a 314 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: diminishment of the grandeur of Catholic liturgy and all expressions 315 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: of the pope. Really, what do you think the cardinals 316 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: are looking for in the next man and who might 317 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: fit that built. 318 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 2: Well, that's a very interesting question because you know, Paul 319 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 2: Francis had a minimalistic view of how you celebrate the libergy. Certainly, 320 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: celebrate the Mass validly and all, but you know, he 321 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 2: used Vatican's glorious investments, he kind of didn't use those. 322 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 2: There are a lot of rituals he kind of dropped, 323 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: and things he did not allow, as Bob said, the 324 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 2: Latin Mass, the traditional Latin Mass to be celebrated elsewhere. 325 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: He made a whole set of unnecessary enemies, you could say, 326 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 2: because people who like the Latin Mass are generally very 327 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: pro papal, but here they were thrown out of the 328 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: I mean literally thrown out of churches. You know, I've 329 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: never heard of a pastor of provision in which throwing 330 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: faithful Catholics out of their parishes was viewed as something 331 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 2: charitable or necessary. So I think that has. 332 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: To be resolved. 333 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 2: But you know, it's kind of an area in the 334 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: life of the Church ever since the reform, after the 335 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: Second Vatican Council, there's been great upsetness and things that 336 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: are unsettled jump all the Second and Benedict tried to 337 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: remedy it. But I think this is a work that's 338 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: going to go on for another fifty to one hundred 339 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: years of trying to arrive at a modernized yet reverential 340 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: liturgy which may be in the vernacular but is very 341 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: very much like the traditional Latin Mass and how it's celebrated. 342 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: Bob, I want to talk for a moment about the 343 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal reports that since Pope Francis took over 344 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: twelve years ago, the budget deficit for the Vatican tripled. 345 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: The pension fund you mentioned this in one of our 346 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: earlier episodes. It has a two billion dollar liability that 347 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: it cannot fund, and four hundred million dollars was lost 348 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: in that ridiculous real estate deal in Britain. How important 349 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: will financial can considerations a sense of find being a 350 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: good steward of money is given and protecting that money. 351 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: Will this next pope have to be well? 352 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 3: It would beggar belief, at least for me to think 353 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 3: that the cardinals who buy and large are at least 354 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 3: responsible men. Would which select someone who would be unable 355 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 3: to deal with that, or if they wanted someone who's 356 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: sort of a spiritual figurehead we've talked about Cardinal Saraz 357 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 3: and not particularly an administrator, but they would have to 358 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 3: have some guarantees that this issue would be addressed. I mean, 359 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 3: in a sense, the abuse crisis is a moral crisis 360 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 3: inside the church that absolutely must be addressed, and this 361 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 3: financial question is a material crisis in the church that 362 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: has to be addressed. We know that there have been 363 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 3: reductions in Peter's pence, that Peter Spence has been used 364 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 3: for expenses, that there have been assets of the Vatican 365 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: that have been sold off I think mostly at this 366 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 3: point real estate assets, but it's not hard to imagine 367 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 3: in the very near future that they're going to have 368 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 3: to start dipping into some of the artwork or the 369 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 3: books in the Vatican Library. This is not a good situation. 370 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 3: It doesn't show a Catholic people that are supporting the 371 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 3: Vatican the way we would expect them to and then 372 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: they did in the past. So it's not just a 373 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 3: matter of identifying this, but it's also a matter of 374 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: identifying a person who we thought we were getting with 375 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: hard work Abergolia, but we didn't. Who can rectify the financial. 376 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: Well father, that's the question. And look, it's a big 377 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: concern as as I look at this, we remembered twelve 378 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: years ago Jorge Bergolio was elected because they imagined our 379 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: friend George Cardinal pell imagined that Pope Francis would be 380 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: the great reformer of not only finances but the Vatican bureaucracy. 381 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: Neither of those things really panned out. So talk about 382 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: the financial part and connect it to what Bob was 383 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: talking about, the sex abuse crisis. How did Pope Francis 384 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: handle that and what must the next pope do to 385 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: restore order and confidence in the church. 386 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 2: Well, they're definitely going to need respect administration of what 387 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: we call the goods of the church, meaning it's assets, 388 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: it's donations, its buildings, and when we're talking about the 389 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: Holy See in the Vatican. They have a lot of 390 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 2: assets in a lot of places, but they're notoriously not 391 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 2: well managed, particularly real estate. I'll have to look at that, 392 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: and you're going to have to figure out how to 393 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: finance this deficit of pensions. You know, a pension is 394 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: not a gift. A pension is owed to people who 395 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: worked for you, and the employer deferred compensation in the 396 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: form of a pension, rather than giving them all the 397 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 2: money at the moment. So that has to be. 398 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: That's a matter of justice. 399 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: Now, sex abuse, the Pope made some inroads with some 400 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 2: documents and some processes. He established a process to prosecute 401 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: bishops and other religious superiors who protected predator priests, but 402 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 2: the application was spotty and in some cases there was 403 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 2: no application, and this is a real problem. His first 404 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 2: bishop he named after he became pope, is a man 405 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: named Zanketta. He was a friend of his a priest 406 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: from Argentina, and Zanketta, as a diozin bishop, was convicted 407 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: of abusing seminarians in his diocese. The Pope's they had 408 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: to say when informed of the charges, believe Zanketta's lie 409 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: that his phone had been hacked. I gave Zanketta a 410 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: job in the Vatican, and then after he was convicted, 411 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: he never prosecuted him with the canon law product. It 412 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 2: took forever and then we were told this passed. 413 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: You. 414 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 2: Well, the process is ongoing, but when the pope died, 415 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 2: they hadn't yet to have a trial, even though it's 416 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 2: been going on for three or four years. So the 417 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: Zenketa case, there's a Rupni case. I won't go into that. 418 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: Sex abuse has to be treated for what it is. 419 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: It is a crime. It doesn't matter who you know 420 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 2: or what position you were occupying nature. You commit a crime, 421 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: and you're a minister of the Gospel, you need to 422 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 2: be punished and removed. 423 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: I hope that there was zero tolerance unless you knew 424 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: the pope, and that's a problem. So hopefully there'll be 425 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: one standard for everybody, and zero tolerance is not a 426 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: bad one, but with due process, I mean not all 427 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: these cases. These men are not always guilty, but you 428 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: have to explore them. There has to be a canonical 429 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: process and was hopefully the next pope will embrace that 430 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: and understand that. The final message of the College of 431 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: Cardinals gents as they came out of their general congregations 432 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: the last meeting. This got very little attention and it 433 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: could have outsized influence on how they choose this next pope. 434 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: They lamented the lack of progress promoting peace in the Ukraine, 435 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: the Middle East and other areas of the world, and 436 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: then they issued quote a heartfelt appeal to all parties 437 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: involved to reach as soon as possible a permanent ceasefire 438 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: and to negotiate without preconditions and further delays the peace 439 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: so deeply desired by the affected populations in the entire world. Bob, 440 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: what influence will that statement have? Very important that it 441 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: came at the end of the congregation meetings. They didn't 442 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: often issue statements like this, What influence will that have? 443 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: And who fits the bill to facilitate that kind of 444 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: piece and at least initiate it. The Pope can't bring peace, 445 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: but he can initiate it and certainly advocate. 446 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 3: For it well. For me, Pizza Bala, the archbishop and 447 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 3: cardinal archbishop from Jerusalem, who has done so well in 448 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 3: managing that very difficult circumstance in the Middle East, in 449 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 3: Gaza and also in Israel, he stands out immediately it 450 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: seems to me as the candidate that might be able 451 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 3: to do that. 452 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: Tell me what you think the next pope will look like. 453 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: I don't even name. I'm really not interested in a man, 454 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: but sketch him for me. Well. 455 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: I think the next Pope has to be a visible 456 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 2: man of prayer and meditation, that he is scripturally rich 457 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 2: in speaking about the Gospel to people. I think he 458 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 2: has to be a man who is confident in his role, 459 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: that he is in fact the successor of Peter and 460 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 2: the first representative of God on earth, and that he 461 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 2: cooperates with brother bishops, but he does so in the 462 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: role of Peter, which is to lead and to guide 463 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: them and confirm them in the faith. I think that's 464 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 2: the first thing. Secondly, I think the next pope has 465 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: to be someone who is a realist, meaning he understands 466 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: clearly that the financial criminal and other scandals surrounding the 467 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: Holy See are not simply subjects of lamentation. They have 468 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: to be things that need to be dealt with in 469 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 2: the way a civil government deals with the problems of 470 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 2: crime and associated economic chaos. So, in other word, you 471 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 2: have to be hard headed, so you have to do 472 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: what's required to put the house in order, and to 473 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: prosecute criminal priests, and to make sure that is quite 474 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 2: clear to people in the Catholic Church, who you know 475 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: is irrelevant. What counts as whether you faithful to the 476 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: Gospel and your duties. 477 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: That's what counts. Look, I agree with all of that. 478 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: I also think we need a pope who will be 479 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: manly stand in the middle of the world with this 480 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: countercultural message of Jesus Christ and confront that world with 481 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: the eternal answers that matter and that still have relevance. 482 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: I think it really is important. And you know, John Paul, 483 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: even Francis, they both went out to the world and 484 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: declared the message. It has to be a clear, unwavering message. 485 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: And I think if that pope emerges from this conclave, 486 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: millions of people will be drawn to this faith, especially 487 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: young people. We're beginning to see the shoots of that 488 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: springtime that John Paul talked about. But boy, are there 489 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: are a lot of land mines that this next pope will 490 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: have to dodge and diffuse before we get there. Gentlemen, 491 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: we'll leave it there for the moment, but we're going 492 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: to do something very special tomorrow. We're going to answer 493 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: your questions all of you watching this Conclave Crew series, 494 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: drop them in the comments below, or you can send 495 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 1: them to Raymond at Raymondarroyo dot com Raymond at Raymond 496 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: Royo dot com and we will try to get to 497 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: as many of those as we can. I know there 498 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: are a lot of them. I've been seeing them all week, 499 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: so we'll get to those. Thank you. Conclave Crew. Ed 500 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: Penton Vatican Journalists is next with the major candidates who 501 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: could be popes. Stay there. Are you looking for financial 502 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: management that reflects your deepest values? Taylor for Gone Capital 503 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: Management actively manages portfolios designed for those who prioritize faith, family, 504 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: and long term stewardship throughout their mutual fund, separately managed 505 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: accounts or family office accounts. Taylor for Gone Capital values 506 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: driven investing to support your faith, family, and finances. There 507 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: at Taylorfogne dot com. As a special edition I wanted 508 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: to bring in and I so regard his work as 509 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: just the best in the business. We're joined by Senior 510 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: correspondent of the National Catholic Register, the best reporter in 511 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: Rome and author of the College of Cardinals Report, Ed Pennon. 512 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: Ed thanks for being here. I've heard from annumber of cardinals. 513 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: How hopelessly undecided they seem to be going into this conclict. 514 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: Is that what you're hearing? 515 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean I think they have been very They 516 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 4: don't really know quite who to vote for. And of 517 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 4: course there's so much there's so much dispute about, you know, 518 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 4: what the priorities are, what the pridetors are going forward 519 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 4: for the church, and so forth, as such a mix 520 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 4: of opinion that I think it's very difficult to gather 521 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 4: around a particular body of opinion to find consensus. I 522 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 4: think it's true. 523 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, we've seen a number of private meetings I 524 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,719 Speaker 1: mean I've seen them myself, by various groups of cardinals. 525 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: Why is it so hard for them to land on 526 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: a candidate or two? They've done this before, at least 527 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: the older ones have, and are their promoters of particular 528 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: cardinals that you've come across. 529 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's really part to do with the 530 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 4: diversity of the college now. I mean, there's so many 531 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 4: cardinals from diverse parts of the world. There's more cardinals 532 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 4: than ever at this conclict you've got I think it 533 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 4: was forty eight A different trees. No, anyway, it's gone 534 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 4: up to seventeen now, so it's a it's a large, 535 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 4: a large increase. And so yeah, it's it's a there's 536 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 4: that challenge to contend with, and there's there's other things too. 537 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 4: It's just a very it's a very disparate group, and 538 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 4: and and so many has just said so many different 539 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 4: opinions as well. 540 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: Cardinal Dominique Momberte, who celebrated the final Mass of mourning 541 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: that I attended on Sunday at Saint Peter's Fort Point Francis, 542 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: he's being chattered about by cardinals as a possible compromise candidate. 543 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: He is head of the Signatura here in Rome, the 544 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: High Court, the Supreme Court of the Vatican. Tell us 545 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: a little about him and why his name is emerging now, 546 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: do you think. 547 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 4: Yes, Well, he's he's been very much a figure of 548 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 4: the Curia for the last twenty years, really because he 549 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 4: was actually Secretary for Relations with States. He was like 550 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 4: the Vatican foreign minister. I remember when that when he 551 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 4: was in that position, he was he was well regarded. 552 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 4: He was he was not considered though your classic diplomat. 553 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 4: He was. He is somebody who does take doctrine seriously. 554 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 4: He wasn't somebody who wasn't a pragmatist who is willing 555 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 4: to cast that aside. So he's considered to be more 556 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 4: sort of on the conservative way, and if you like, 557 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 4: you want to use that label. So that's what sort 558 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: of puts him in that mold. And he's a quiet man. 559 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 4: He's very he's actually quite timid, and I think that 560 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 4: makes him seem as though he could be somebody to 561 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 4: be that sort of calm, safe pair of hands that 562 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 4: manyfield is needed after the the you know, the disruption 563 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 4: of the Francis pontificate. 564 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: Yes, I keep hearing this from cardinals all over the world. 565 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: We want a quiet pontificate. We've had enough noise, We've 566 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: had enough chaos. We just want quiet. You know. It's 567 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: like a father with children. They don't want them to 568 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: be good or bad. 569 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 4: Just quiet. 570 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: What about Cardinal Michael Chersney's comments about African popes that 571 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: are now emerging. Tell us about that. 572 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 4: Yes, well, he's saying he's been come out quite strongly 573 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 4: in an asker of The New York Times, saying that 574 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 4: he thinks it's I can't really the exact words, but 575 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 4: something like very dangerous about the cardinals, the African cardinals 576 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 4: that he knows and he thinks it would be very, 577 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 4: very problematic if any of them become pope. He was 578 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 4: quite forthright about it, and I think it's probably. I 579 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 4: think probably because the African Church, the cardinals are very 580 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 4: strong on moralists, use they uphold the churches teaching on 581 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 4: the Apostolic tradition and the traditional doctrine, and so I 582 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 4: think that that riles up I think those who are 583 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 4: pushing constantly from an aggressive view. 584 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: Of the church. Yeah, Church, we should say as so, Jess. 585 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: We're very close collaborator with Pope Francis, and has already 586 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: echoed that he thinks the Francis vision should continue. Who 587 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: else do you see as papably possible pope at this point, 588 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: your top four candidates if you had to run them down, 589 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: and I'm asking you to run them down. 590 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 4: Okay, I think just to give sort of an overview, 591 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 4: because I don't think who knows if they can actually 592 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 4: be elected or whatever. But I think Cardinal Peter Erdo 593 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 4: is considered one of the leading candidates because he's a 594 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 4: canon law He's somebody who can put order back into 595 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 4: the church because of the rather lawless few years we've 596 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 4: had under Francis, and that could be done as could 597 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 4: be quite easily done, apparently canonically changed and brought back 598 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 4: to the Church, backed onto an even keel. So he's 599 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 4: one of the leading candidates. Then there's Cardinal Pietro Parlin, 600 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 4: of course, the former Vatican Secretary of State, who who 601 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 4: is well known, and he's got a he's done a 602 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 4: lot in terms of Vatican diplomacy. But there's problems with 603 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 4: him regarding the Vatican China deal of course, which is controversial, 604 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 4: still causing waves. 605 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: And you don't think the financial excuse me for a moment, 606 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: you don't believe the financial his involvement in that financial 607 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: scandal and the China deal sort of end his candidacy. 608 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 4: Well, it could do, but I mean the financial deal 609 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 4: is often associated with the London Deal. I mean that 610 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 4: that was I think signed really before he became Secretary 611 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 4: of State. That was under Cardin Bert Tony's leadership in 612 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 4: the Curia, and I think that was that was really yes, 613 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 4: predated Hilka, but he did have some involvement in trying 614 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 4: to resolve it. Yes, so and that was necessarily satisfactory. 615 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 4: So there is that, But and then the other financial 616 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 4: problems were kind of to do with Appso, which is 617 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 4: the office for the real estate and patrimony of that 618 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 4: Holy See, and that was also out of his purview. 619 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 4: So I think he did what he could in that, 620 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 4: and I think that's less of a problem. But certainly 621 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 4: the China deal and his attitude of diplomacy and his 622 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 4: rather pragmatic view, I think that can be seen as 623 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 4: as something problematic going forward. 624 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: Give us a sense of any other candidate, so Perolene, 625 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: who else? 626 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 4: Yes, Well, then you've got Cardinal willem Ike of the Netherlands. 627 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 4: He's often not not thought of because he's a very 628 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 4: quiet another quiet cardinal who doesn't make waves, but he's 629 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 4: seen as very solid, somebody who can really write the 630 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 4: ship and becom and you know, bring back a certain 631 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 4: order back to the pontificate. And then I suppose you've 632 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 4: got another, well, another cardinal who's often not mentioned but 633 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 4: is on paper at least has a lot to offer, 634 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 4: and that's Cardinal Malcolm Ranchi to Columbu Sri Lanka. Because 635 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 4: he's he's got all of the experience that you would 636 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 4: want in a pope. He's got the pastoral he was 637 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 4: a parish priest. He's now Chbishop of Columbus, so he's 638 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 4: and he has had to deal with real challenges there. 639 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 4: And he's been a diplomat, though he's not a trained diplomat, 640 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 4: but he was sent to he's a team more by 641 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 4: Pope Benedict to serve there as nuncio. And and he's 642 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 4: got service in the Curia too. He did book as 643 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 4: Secretary of the Dichastriy for Divine Worships, so he's he's 644 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 4: got a good all round vision and he speaks something 645 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 4: like ten languages. 646 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: Do you think the Asian bishops would be welcoming to 647 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: him or in s important? 648 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 4: I think they could be. 649 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 650 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 4: And the thing about the Asian cardinals is that they 651 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 4: they're much bigger now. They're much a bigger group. I 652 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 4: think they're only ten at the last one, and now 653 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 4: twenty or twenty five or something. They've I think they've 654 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 4: doubled in numbers, so they have a large presence. 655 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: Now. Before I let you go, and I want everybody 656 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: to go, read your column, you rotarycent column where you 657 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: run down the ten critical issues facing the next pope, 658 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: and I'll just run through a few of them. Return 659 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: to the papacy as the source of sound doctrine and unity, 660 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: clarification a Vatican two and reform of the jests. Which 661 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: why are those critical? 662 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 4: Well, because I think the period of the last twelve 663 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 4: years has been very much a clarifying period, if you like, 664 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 4: one in which what's been seen has been a great 665 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,240 Speaker 4: ambiguity in doctrine and great confusion and lack of clarity. 666 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 4: So there's been clarity and that there's been lack of clarity, 667 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 4: and so one of that's one of the fruits of 668 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 4: France's pontificate is it inadvertently, in many ways showed a 669 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 4: shed a light on just how problematic and murky the 670 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 4: church doctrine has become question on morals issues, but also 671 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 4: on the liturgy and so forth since since the Council, 672 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 4: and I think it sort of came to a head 673 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 4: under Francis So so I think it's It's also something 674 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 4: that Cardinal pell was very keen on too, was this 675 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 4: return to Apostolic tradition, to clarity of doctrine, to canon 676 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 4: law and respecting canon law. And so I think that 677 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 4: that seems to be that properly is a priority, or 678 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 4: I think many people feel it should be a priority 679 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 4: for them. 680 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: In dependent on what should people be focused on as 681 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: this conclave begins, what should they be watchful for? Any 682 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: signs in the early you know, once a pope is announced, 683 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: the name, he takes, the dress he wears, he appears 684 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: on that lord, which we now know means a lot 685 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 1: more than just preference. 686 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, thank you, Raymond. It's going to be very interesting, 687 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,959 Speaker 4: and those are the things to look for, because there'll 688 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 4: be signs of where he's going to take the pontificate 689 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 4: and the papacy, and that'll be quite clear. You know, 690 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 4: is he going to stay in the papal apartments, is 691 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 4: he going to stay in the Santa Mata like No Francis, 692 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 4: or is he going to sort of come back to 693 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 4: the more traditional pope, to be a traditional pope like 694 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 4: in the past. And there is a certain wish for that, 695 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 4: I think among many of the faithful. They've at least 696 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 4: that's what I hear, is that they want to become 697 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 4: They want the judge to come back to a little 698 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 4: more to tradition and be rooted in that. So we'll see. 699 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, ed Penon, thank you for all of your good work. 700 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: College of Cardinals Report dot com an indispensable source for 701 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: who these men are, where they come from, and the 702 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: breakdown by the issues is just incredible. Edpon, thank you 703 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 1: for being here. 704 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 4: Thank you Raymond, great to be here. 705 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: The Arroyal Grande Conclave Crew Vatic in addition, will continue 706 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: look send those questions in go to Raymond at Raymondarroyo 707 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: dot com or just drop it in the comments here. 708 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: We'll get to them tomorrow. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe 709 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or Arroyo Grande 710 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: Podcast wherever you get yours. And this series has been 711 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: brought to you by our friends at Taylor for Gone 712 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,280 Speaker 1: Capital Management, Faith Family and Finances there at Taylorforgne dot com, 713 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: as well as Floriani Revitalizing Sacred Music Floriani dot org 714 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: On behalf of Robert Royal, Father, Gerald Murray and Ed Pentton. 715 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: This time we will convene again. I'm Raymond Arroyo from Rome. 716 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: See you next time. Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership 717 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: with iHeart Podcasts and is available on the iHeartRadio app 718 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.