WEBVTT - The Union Makes Us Strong, Part 2 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:11.119 UM George flit uprising. You know, UH in Minneapolis, there 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:15.240 were nurses union nurses who walked out the door UM 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:20.800 to support UH. You know, people who were uh basically 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.119 having an insurrection against like police violence in in Minneapolis 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:32.720 when the when COVID pandemic hit off, year of everything 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.520 going off, nurses and nurses were going out and confronting UH. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.120 Union nurses were going out and confronting anti mass protesters. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.400 Like I was literally getting screamed out by like some 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.120 Looney Tunes doctor holding a banner that said nurses are dying. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.800 Go home with like twenty other union nurses. And we 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:52.960 were the only people out there who are like together, 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.360 who are you know, immediately impacted by this stuff? And UM, 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.200 And I think it made a difference, Like I think 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.040 it's important and so I think that UM. And there's 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.920 some idea called social unionism. So if you get to 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.399 the point where building a union and you're making progress, 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.039 and you get to that point where you have a union, 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.400 always be advocating for to the extent that you can 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.800 that your union is engaged in the kind of UM, 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.559 like connecting with your community around your workplace, figuring out 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.440 the things that are impacting people's lives outside of unions, 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.560 because I think that's another thing that um for a 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.880 long time, unions just ignored or let atrophy because they 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.360 didn't think it was their problem anymore. Was you know, 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:40.119 mutual aid helped build the labor movement. You know, workers 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.280 would get would literally like in West Virginia and Maitwan, 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.800 Uh they had uh company police throwing people out of 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.640 their apartments who are on strike, and the there were 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:56.720 you know, all of a sudden, two thousand of your 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.800 fellow workers showing up and throwing the police out of 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.080 own and putting people's uh, you know, belongings back in 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.800 their house or you know. And I believe we're getting 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.040 back to that point where you know, teachers went on 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.519 striking West Virginia and the union and the teachers did 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.840 everything they could to support their students while they were out, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:23.000 because like I think there's this idea that a lot 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:27.840 of union workers at this point are you know, everyone 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.840 is like, you know, the American workforce is so desperate 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.120 and so and they've had just been pushed around so 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.280 much that you know, there was this idea for a 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:42.040 time like in Wisconsin was or what was the Scott 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.120 Walker consint uprising, wasn't it. I think it was like 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.120 right around occupy It wasn't around there, And like there 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.639 was this idea that's like, oh, you're a nurse, Oh 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.880 you're a teacher, Like you should just be happy that 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.239 your job has some kind of meaning to it, right, 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.480 And it was a lot of like weird discourse around 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.640 in the media and about like how dare these people? 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.639 I think that they deserve anything. And the thing is 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.359 is that how can you, like, as a nurse, how 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.760 can I take care of my patients safely when I'm 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:22.880 constantly having, um like, more and more work put on me, right, 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.560 and that that immediately affects the people that I'm taken 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.720 care of. So that when when we went on strike 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.720 in twenty nineteen, it was around our safe staffing. Um 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:37.240 and if I've seen management make decisions about staffing that 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.680 kill people, and I've seen management make decisions that lead 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.840 to my coworkers getting injured. Um I management made decisions 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.440 that led to me getting COVID and messed me up 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:54.000 for a year. And so when people in these kind 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.360 of care worker roles, which I think has become a 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.120 more prominent part of the US economy as people are 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.119 getting older and they need more like care work, home 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:09.560 care workers, nursing home workers, hospital workers. UM. Parents don't 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.480 can't rely on family the way they used to to 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.360 help take care kids. School has become like this really important, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:22.600 like uh institution for you know, working class survival. UM 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:24.839 that you can't do those jobs as a worker if 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.839 you don't have the resources. So like our our children 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:32.120 were at the Chicago public schools and there that you know, 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:36.320 the Chicago Teachers Union, which was taken over by the 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.599 rank and file UM, I think in two thousand five 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.200 or six by you know, a group of black women 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.760 led by Karen Lewis. They set up a group called 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.960 like a rank and file caucus called the Caucus of 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:57.440 Rank and File Educators or Radical Educators. CORES might be 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.360 messing on that, but it's called CORE. They went out 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:05.480 on striking and as a you know, as just this 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.120 was before my kids were old not to be in 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.280 those schools. I was out there still taking them coffee 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.080 and donuts, right because I knew that they're in there. 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.760 Because things stuck. By the time my kids were old 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.360 enough in nineteen for it to be a big thing, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.719 and the teachers when out striking Chicago. It had gotten 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.920 so it's so bad that Chicago teachers like Chicago Public 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:32.040 schools have the the lowest number of staff two students 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.720 of any school system in Illinois. It's not even like 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:40.599 half right and um, And it's funny because the state 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.000 had been constantly trying to erode the power of the union. 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.160 They're making Chicago teachers like pay their for their own 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.680 retirement basically in a way that no other like workers 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.360 have to. Um. They were making it so that Chicago 0:05:55.400 --> 0:06:01.040 teachers could only go on strike. Over of the teachers 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.680 voted to go on strike. UM. So when So what 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.240 that does is there's kind of like a a little 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.120 bit of a flip where oh, we have to make 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.119 of you know, people agree to go on strike. Well, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.799 let's organize so much that we get people to agree 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.800 to go on strike, and then how powerful is our 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.440 strikes our strikes going to be. We're literally like one 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.960 of the things I do as a steward is I 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.880 connect with all the different unions and at the University 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.279 Chicago where I work, through a labor council, we were going, 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.960 as you know, university workers to all the picket lines 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.360 of the public schools around our neighborhood and we're bringing 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.880 out coffee, bring out donuts, talking to people. Hey, I'm 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.080 a nurse. We were on strike like six or like 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.720 two or three months ago. What do you all need 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:52.160 connecting with people? And then and then like at one 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.200 point when the teachers were like, we're not getting what 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:01.679 we want and this is LORI lightfoot is trash the area. UH, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:06.240 we helped organize this mass march where multiple marches of 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.400 teachers and school workers and we're all out in the 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.600 streets dodging cop cars until we have this big convergence. 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:16.320 And it was really beautiful. Like we had like multiple 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.440 people with like multiple banners and different columns, each one 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.160 saying we will win, going through the streets of our neighborhood. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:27.960 UM and like messing up like the commercial traffic area 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.640 in uh, in our very bougie neighborhood. UM. But that 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.440 was happening all over the city. And it's just like 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.040 when you see that happen, it's because we're literally in 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.160 the support of the community for those strikes was so 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.120 overwhelming because people knew that. It's like these people, aren't it. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:48.200 I mean, like, first off, it's a hard job there's 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.760 no reason why anyone doing that job shouldn't have like 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.280 a materially comfortable life. That's how stressful it is and 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.480 how much work they do. Um and I really like, 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.680 I really need to emphasize this enough. People. There's this 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.120 whole thing was like, oh, teachers don't work over the summer, Like, oh, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:06.920 but no, no, Like their job sucks. They have to 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:08.360 they have to deal with these kids all day. And 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:09.960 the other thing is like, you know, the part of 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.080 it that you don't see is they have to do 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:12.720 all a lesson plans, They have to great all the stuff, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:14.440 have to do all this stuff like after the school 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.440 day end, they have to do all the suff honestly 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.440 all the time. This job is awful. It is extremely hard, 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:24.440 and like they don't Yeah, the conditions are extremely bad. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.400 I'll never forget when I'll never forget when I ran 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.240 into my seventh grade science teacher on the summer she 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.040 was waiting tables at a local restaurant, you know, I mean, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.720 And so I think that there's this assumption that like 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.160 that especially care workers get some sort of you can't 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.079 you know, you can't cash in fulfillment, right or prestige 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.000 or whatever that doesn't pay the rent, that doesn't put 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.880 you know, groceries on your table um that sort of thing. 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.120 And so, you know, I think we're beginning to see 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:58.040 this thing resurgence. And it started with teachers and I 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.320 know for and teachers and nurses have been out fighting 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.240 like hell for the past like five years, and it's 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.160 beginning to kind of like spark other kinds of organizing 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.120 outside of outside of the care work areas. And a 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:15.880 lot of this stuff was It's funny how it was 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.480 kind of like predicted by occupy and like revolt of 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.640 the carrying classes. Someone who wrote a really cool book 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.640 that just came out, David Graeber, who was talking about 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.680 like why is it that we're seeing all these people 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.839 who are out in the streets like during occupy, who 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.040 are like social workers and nurses and teachers and all 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.440 this stuff. There There's something going on here, and I 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:42.480 think that so you'll see places where organizing conditions are 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:47.320 easier because the pressure on especially care workers right now 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.640 is immense in a way that it isn't as immense 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.880 other places. But look at for those like when you're 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.319 thinking about unions and whether to do build a union 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.000 at your workplace or do some sort of collective organized 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.439 in your workplace? Do you have the dynamics where you 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:08.360 guys are can the boss shut down your uh, your 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.080 your workplace and move it like ten miles without completely 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.920 destroying their like their business right? And so you know, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:23.120 we've seen strikes happen in grocery stores, um and uh 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:28.760 Massachusetts there was a really like uh pretty well publicized 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.200 grocery worker strike and apparently there was like internal documents 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.560 got released to like shareholders about how that was like 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:36.920 one of the most like it was like for a 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.160 month in the winter or three weeks, and they said 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:44.840 they lost like of customers refused across the picket line. 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.840 I mean, and I think we're thinking it's like getting 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:50.920 to the point where you can go on strike. It's 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.600 a lot, it's a process, and it takes a lot 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:54.920 of work, and I think that people underestimate what that 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.520 looks like. Hence we see hashtag general strike things all 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:03.920 the time. Um, but like when you get there, I 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.800 think that we're at a point now where people have 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.240 a lot more sympathy for workers, and workers have become 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.640 more visible in a way that they weren't before, Like 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.800 the essential workers over the past year and a half 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.920 have been the only workers that sometimes people will see, right, 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.080 so you'll see things also like you have you know, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:26.840 Amazonians United, which is a union that's organizing, but they're 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.560 trying to organize something called a solidarity union. So they're 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.920 not you know, at least the ones here in Chicago, 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.240 and I think some of them in New York. And 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.120 this may be changing. Things are always shifting around, but 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.560 for a long for a while, through like the pandemic, 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.920 they were organizing on a like in contrast to the 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:48.480 best Summer uh Amazon campaign. Sorry, there was a a 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:53.760 business union tried to organize a union in Alabama, Investment 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:58.920 Alabama at an Amazon warehouse, and there was a lot 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:03.320 of like media attention to that. Democratic politicians, we're paying 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.920 attention to it, you know, Joe Biden said, I support 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.319 the right of workers to choose to have the choice. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.360 Stabby union some really milk tast bullshit and a lot 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:17.520 of celebrities showing up. And what wasn't happening was you 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.400 weren't seeing a lot of evidence that the workers themselves 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:24.199 were very excited about the union. And it turned out 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:30.040 that that campaign failed. UM whereas workers at Amazonian's united 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.079 up here like in Chicago, and granted it's a very 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:37.160 different organizing environment in Illinois than it is in Alabama. Um, 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.760 they haven't been focusing on getting contract. They've been focusing 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.480 on getting work changes. Like they're like, we want to 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:47.000 have water, like we need water breaks, and so they 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:48.920 would they have these stand up meetings at the beginning 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.280 of every shift, and they had coordinated where you have, 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.120 you know, thirty of your coworkers all say we're not 0:12:55.200 --> 0:13:00.360 starting until we get water, and then management panics because 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.600 they're not used to that kind of demand. They're used 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.200 to We're going to have a campaign then we can 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.080 you know, mess with votes and that sort of thing 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:14.240 and make people afraid. Collective action overcomes fear, right, So 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.400 when you have collective action, even through a regular like 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:23.480 a more regular conventional union campaign, those collective actions are 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.240 what leads to successful unions. So like, um, so, you know, 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.880 they'd say, we aren't starting the shift until we get water, 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.520 and then all of a sudden, a manager disappears and 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.559 then comes back with palates full of water, right, and 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:37.000 all of a sudden, people are like, I'm gonna have 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.480 a drink water before I start like all together and 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.560 then they go off and do their thing, and it's like, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.080 you know, things like that build the power of the 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.040 union to the point where they shut down that warehouse. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.280 But then Amazonian United popped up in the three new 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.520 warehouses that they set up in Chicago. So it's like 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.600 when you build that kind of collective power and people 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:04.160 feel like this is how you get things, then it's 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.200 hard to repress. Right. It's one thing where like we 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.880 lost an election, why did we even bother? It's another 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.480 thing where like, no, we want like all this, like this, that, 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.040 and the other thing like we got you know, like 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.920 our regular schedules fixed, we got like water on our shifts. 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.840 We got this. You know. That's what gets people into 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:23.800 the mindset that they can change things. And I think 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:25.600 this is the thing that a lot of people don't get. 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.560 It's it's like, the difficult part isn't getting people to 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.000 agree that things are sucked up at your workplace. Most 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.120 people understand that things are sucked up in their workplace. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.000 Difficult part isn't saying that, like, well, this is a solution, right. 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.240 The difficult part is getting people to understand that collective 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.840 action is the only way to solve the problems right 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.440 even within unionized workplaces, getting your coworkers to understand that 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.120 if we don't do this as a collective, we will fail. 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:57.320 And so like when there was a like the first 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:07.800 successful private hospital union drive in North Carolina popped off early. UM. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:14.040 Throughout that campaign, they were constantly like demonstrations of collective power. 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.680 We're gonna do a vigil. How many people are gonna 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.320 show up to the visual We're gonna all walk around 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:23.800 stickers saying like safe staffing, safe lives or like you know, UM, 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.840 patients over profits. That sort of stuff and building that 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:31.240 kind of collective power together is what gets you, UM, 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.600 It's what gets you a successful like, that's what builds 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.720 a union. Fundamentally, union is UM. There's the legal thing 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.600 and then there's the real thing, and the real thing 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.880 is only as powerful as people are willing to fight 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.640 for and build that kind of collective power together. When 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.320 nurses were on straight and I talked a lot about 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.240 nurses because I know a lot about nurses, but like 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.200 you know, or like you know in um in Iowa, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:59.120 when the John Deere strike happened, people were out on 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.120 those picket lines and people were ready to get hit 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.560 by cars to like stop scabs from coming like crossing 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.800 the picket line. And if you're not willing to do 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.280 that kind of stuff. And I'm not saying that you 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:09.920 need to put your body on the line for things, 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.920 but you do need to be willing to draw outside 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.800 the lines. Right, there's the law, and then there's what 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.680 you can get people to do. And you will be 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.720 surprised when people start moving. They move fast and they 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.640 get really riled up like this, funk, this, this is 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.280 what we're gonna do. And sometimes unions try and like 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.480 bottle that energy up um or you know, if you're 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.680 in a good union, you use that energy to fix things. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.440 So I think that's kind of where land on all 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.000 this stuff. It's like be aware of like the pitfalls 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.680 of what organizing at work means. Everyone has a right 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.640 to organize at work everywhere in this country. If you 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.000 get fired for like for organizing, you can fight that 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.960 that sort of thing. Yeah, it is, it's federally protected, 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.040 like it's this is this is a federal government thing. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:16:59.600 Like you know, this is this is this is what 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.280 we got in exchange for everything else is like like 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.560 this is you know, like this this is what we 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.520 got in exchange of putting our guns down, is that like, yeah, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:12.560 the the the actual FEDS will be like, no, you 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:17.399 can't do this. Yeah, I mean, and sometimes that doesn't 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:22.199 sound like fold consolation and it doesn't always work. But 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.080 and I guess this is the other thing is there 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:25.840 are people who are like, this is how we're gonna, 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.400 you know, we're gonna when socialism as everyone's in the union. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.280 And I guess, like my take on it is is 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.440 this is how we build all the networks and get 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.639 the skills and all the necessary things to be prepared 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:43.280 to do bigger stuff down the road. So when we 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.320 when workers are talking to each other across like you know, 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.800 at when the Chicago when Chicago teachers went on strike, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.040 they didn't just go on strike as the teachers. They 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.000 also talked to the They lined up their strike to 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.639 go out at the same as education like the school 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.360 workers who are in sc you and they went out 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.760 at the same time, um in order to incre improve 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.080 the power of the strike, because the more workers who 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:12.639 are out, less able the bosses are to like like 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.920 to undermine the boss either with people scabbing on each 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.120 other or whatever. And I think it's just like and 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.760 like that's the point of our labor council is Like 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.240 when like the grad workers at Universe Chicago go on strike, 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.920 we got teachers out or we got well, there were 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.200 teachers from CTU out on those picket lines. There were 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.159 nurses and a new on those picket lines, and we 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.240 were doing everything we could to communicate to each other 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.560 because like in my work, it doesn't matter that I'm 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.040 a nurse and you're a secretary. We have the same boss, 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.399 we have the same problems a lot of the times. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:50.680 And so I think people people want to do the thing, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.159 which is to all have the glorious general strike that 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.480 like overthrows capitalism or whatever or fixes all the problems 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.520 at your work. But you know, starting everyone forgets all 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.760 the necessary intermediate steps to get to that point. And 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.240 sometimes it means just get the union in the door 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.480 in the first place, because like at a campaign I 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.159 was a part of here in Chicago where my University 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.480 Chicago bought a non union hospital that was out in 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.600 the community. Just getting in there, they were able to 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:22.479 expose like basically an entire hospital wide scheme of like 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:28.840 racial racist like practices around raises and compensation and that 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.840 is like that first step and then fixing that right 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.800 because you don't want to have like white worse nurses 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.240 making more than black nurses and black percent more than 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.479 like did immigrant nurses like Filipino or like Mexican nurses. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.560 Get everyone on the same page so that you're fighting 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.960 together instead of fighting each other. And you know, those 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.439 are those first steps that you take. And then and 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.520 then you start reaching out to people on other other 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.560 workplaces or other work areas and build that kind of 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.840 militant see across unions so that you can support each other. 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.919 So maybe a secondary strike is illegal right now, but 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.919 that doesn't mean that you don't have you know, teamsters 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.920 who won't cross the picket line, right you know, how 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.200 do you go out and make it or you can 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:19.520 build that solidarity so that like in Buffalo and the UM, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.120 the c w A nurses went on strike and they 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.200 want pretty impressive things around staffing ratios. They literally had 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.760 other unions going out and picketing board members of their 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:36.159 hospitals businesses and like getting really really like aggressive with 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.360 that sort of stuff. So I think that I think 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.119 that people need to just big takeaway is it's the 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.960 biggest barrier to any of this stuff is just getting 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:50.480 people to believe that collective action is possible and they 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.720 can get you wins, and then making sure that you 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.240 take your time and be patient and understand that there's 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.400 going to be losses in the grand scheme of things. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:08.440 Don't don't don't mistake what looks like a setback when 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.360 it's actually a victory for like a victory, like for 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.520 a real like a defeat and um, and talk with 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.040 people like that's what they hate that, Like, bosses hate 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:19.800 it when we're talking with each other and talk to 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.640 people you're not comfortable with. That's the That's the other 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:24.840 thing is that people are very nervous to talk to people. 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.040 Like it's always funny when you run into people who 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:31.159 are ra ra like unions, ra ra like socialism, YadA YadA, YadA, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.879 and they don't talk to their co workers, right, and 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.040 your coworkers are the people you're gonna be around for 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:38.840 maybe some years, and that's where you spend a huge 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:40.399 chunk of your time and like, but you don't know 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.560 what's going on, they're like, Oh, they're all hostile. They 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.200 don't want to know anything, they don't want to do anything. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.679 Funny thing is is that oftentimes the most people who 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.720 seem very skeptical and anti union can be flipped, and 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.680 sometimes those people become the best, like the most dedicated 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.040 people to the union. It also means that you're going 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.359 to talk to people who disagree with Like there was 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:03.720 a Trump dude who was on like the bargaining committee 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.280 for like our last strike. He fucking loved that thing. 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.080 He was like, we're going on strike, but you know, 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.119 it's also a union full of black women, and he 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.439 shut the funk up when you know, it wasn't like, 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.679 you know, being racist and ship, but you know you're 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:17.400 gonna be with those people. And part of the thing 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.320 is is that it's about how we're all moving together 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.280 rather than making sure everyone is on the same page 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.200 for every single thing, because the biggest thing is the 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:30.080 collective action and building that collective power, and hopefully the 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:36.000 collective power is hopefully the collective power outweighs. It's if 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:40.760 you stand firm on principles like anti racism and fighting 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.240 against discrimination and misogyny that sort of thing, it actually 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.439 builds the power of the union. I think that's the 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:48.199 other things that people are like, oh, I don't you know, 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.600 like you know, working class people are all racist or 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:53.520 reactionary or whatever. So I'm going to do that And 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:55.720 that's how I'm gonna get That's my inn. And it's like, 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:57.760 I think there are a lot of people who like, 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.280 they really don't like you. They don't like being around loud, 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.240 racist assholes or people who you know, say slurs, like 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:08.199 especially if it's like I mean, you can make the 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.160 arguments like this is that's their way of dividing us. 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.879 Our goal is to be together. And historically speaking, the 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.639 one thing that's done the most too fight working class 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:24.600 racism is union organizing. Ye. So, and I think also, 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:29.240 like you know, in terms of like building something that's 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.280 actually you know, durable and powerful on top of sort 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:34.879 of just the division. I mean, you know, even when 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.919 it becomes stuff like transphobia, right, it's like, you know, 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:43.480 if if you can convince people to fight like first, 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:45.800 like fight for the person next to them, right, you know, 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:46.880 I mean this is this is the thing that people 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.480 like said a lot during the Dween the Brainy campaign. 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:54.200 But it was like, you know, if people like, yeah, 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.719 like if you can get someone to uh fight like 0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:59.240 fight for the person next to you in a concrete 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:01.200 way in the work in a way that's actually real 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:05.159 for something that doesn't directly affect them. You think, you 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.760 know a A, it's just like the amount of power 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:14.359 that you've built there is incredible. And then be also, Okay, 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:16.240 I forgot where I was going with that, Daniel, please 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.240 cut that. Hold on, hold on, I can kind of 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.359 build off. Let me just say this, My personal experience 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:26.600 is that queer women run the labor movement and that 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:30.560 like and that if you think that people who have 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.359 been bullied from the day they like stepped into like 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.560 a into a kindergarten aren't going to be the people 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:41.639 who are most equipped to fight bullshit, bullying from a 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:45.359 boss or injustice or bullshit you're fucking like, like, just 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:47.960 get the funk out because you haven't been in a 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:50.360 union and you don't know what you know. I mean, 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:55.919 you like the like people. Unions are at their best 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.600 when they incorporate, you know, all, like when they are 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.600 fighting for everybody, because what a boss can get away 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.679 with with the weakest person, that's what they'll do to 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:07.840 all of us if they get the chance. And so 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:10.280 I think that there's this idea that's like, oh, we're 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:13.159 going to set we're not going to we're going to 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.879 ignore this or that sort of thing. It's like, you know, 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:19.520 that's when people like, you know, people will turn away 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.760 from unions as they feel like they're not being listened 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:23.800 to or taken seriously. And you don't know what people's 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.600 like identities are just because you see how they look. 0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:30.040 And so I think that it's real important for us 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:32.280 to understand that if we're going to fight these fights, 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.600 we need to do so with the understanding that it's everybody, 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.840 and that the working class is a giant, multi racial 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.720 conglomeration of every identity in this country. Um, and that 0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:47.880 the more marginal your identity is, the more useful having 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:51.280 a union is to like solving your problems. Like I said, 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:56.040 like racist racist compensation practices, there was no way that 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:58.320 was going to get fixed, Like it wasn't even uncovered. 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:00.399 People didn't understand it was happening in till like the 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:02.600 union got in. Doesn't mean there are other ways to 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:04.760 fix things, but it's one of the one of the 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:16.879 most powerful ways to fix things. I think that people 0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:21.240 just like don't understand because they don't have experience. Because 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:25.000 they don't have an experience, they end up with they 0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:27.720 end up with misconceptions about what they're going to get 0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:30.320 into and then they get disappointed. And I think the reality, 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.040 I mean, I think that the reality is not as 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:36.120 bad as sometimes it seems. But also you gotta go 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.480 into all this ship with open eyes. Yeah, And I 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:41.320 think that there's and that's the other thing one of 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:43.520 the fun things. Maybe this will make it to the podcast. 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:45.560 I don't know, but um, one of the fun things 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:48.720 is always like hanging out with like if you like 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.760 every workplace has like its lefties just about and like 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:56.760 hanging out with the lefties who just can't get their 0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:59.320 brains wrapped around the ship that you need to have 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:02.040 a union. I think that there's like this idea that's like, oh, 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.600 I'm gonna talk to my friend. They're like they're like 0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:07.000 they say they're a communists, so that the and then 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:10.520 then all those people do not always but they're don't. 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:12.320 They're sitting there, it's like talking a bunch of shit 0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:14.600 about like the union. They're a bunch of sellouts is 0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:16.560 or that, and it's like literally it's the only thing 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:19.600 you're gonna do to get your like to fix the problem. 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:20.960 And you're just like, we're just trying to get this 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:22.960 problem fixed. Can we just set aside what you think 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:25.800 needs to happen like that you guys talked about it. 0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:29.520 You're like Spartacus leak meeting or whatever, like, oh, this 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.200 isn't a real strike, Like we're not going out until 0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:34.440 like for like you know, three months. And it's like, 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:37.400 you know, it's like the sort of thing where um 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.720 sometimes or oftentimes, and I think it's because a lot 0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:45.000 of people kind of pick up their politics almost like 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:47.439 an aesthetic as opposed to like a thing that like 0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:52.880 is about like fixing the problems in their lives. And 0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:55.359 sometimes even I'm like, you know, like this is the 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:59.320 problem that I face is like like shit is real, 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.880 like a lot of people, and you can sit there 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:05.199 and talk about this or that, and like you're you know, 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:08.080 you think that things. You know, you've got this perfect 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:10.479 ideal vision of what things should be, and then you've 0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:13.040 got this kind of imperfect thing in front of you 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:17.000 that is, even though it's imperfect, it's basically what you've got. 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:19.400 And so it's like you've got to kind of you've 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:21.920 got to work with what you have and fix it 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:23.399 up and make it the best that you think it 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:26.840 can be um, but also understand because it's an organization 0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:29.080 full of people that it's not going to be perfect 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:31.359 every time. And yeah, maybe your union is going to 0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:33.919 do some liberal ship you know, and you're gonna and 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.160 that's going to annoy you. But you know, like, um, 0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:38.960 those people are still going to show up on the 0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:42.400 picket line if you're like, if you're organized and you're 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.640 good and like, you know, that's it's not the end 0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:48.880 of the world that your union isn't perfect, um, but 0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:50.640 you've got to do everything you can to do your 0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:52.840 best to make it better because if you don't, then 0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:56.160 then liberals will do whatever they're gonna do or conservatives 0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:58.280 will do whatever they're gonna do, and then they will 0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:01.400 like furtter away this thing. Like you can destroy a 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:05.920 union if you aren't engaged. Like a union can be 0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:09.400 destroyed by people who think that you know, they're just 0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:11.200 like I just want to get my rays and like 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:13.840 go home, and like, you know, if people's main concern 0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:17.640 is like their healthcare or like you know, that hour 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:20.680 of prep time before they start their shift or whatever 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:24.600 should you know, start their school day or whatever. Um, 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.240 you know, a union can like dissolve out from underneath 0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:28.800 you and people are like, why is no one showing 0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:31.800 up to this thing? It's because you didn't talk to 0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:33.720 people and find out what it is. I think that's 0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:35.520 the other thing is like listen, Like there's this idea 0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.080 that you're gonna get up and give a big speech 0:29:37.120 --> 0:29:40.280 and get everyone really excited about your about like being 0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:41.920 in a union. But the main thing is listening to 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:44.719 people and listening to people who are critics. You know, 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.280 your coworkers who have complaints aren't like people that you 0:29:48.280 --> 0:29:50.080 should ignore. Those are people who need to listen to 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:53.640 because those are people who they've got I mean, everyone's 0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:56.840 got legitimate problems with how you know work is happening. 0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:59.760 And like just because someone's like, you know, union is 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:03.680 you know trash, Like then find out why they think 0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:05.680 it's trash and then try and be like I want 0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:06.960 to try and fix out what can we do to 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:11.120 fix it together? That sort of thing. I remember when 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:14.080 when I was working, So I worked at like maintenance 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:18.440 and a county facility for a while, and you know, 0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:20.440 so I was like a like I was like I 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:22.760 was like a summer higher basically, and so we we 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.160 weren't in the union, but like everyone we were working 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:27.440 for was in the union, and they all like, you know, 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:31.040 these are old ex construction worker guys and you know, 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:35.240 like they're in the union. But like I remember that 0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:37.600 we show these conversations that were like, okay, so we 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:39.320 have a union meeting this week, just like do you 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.040 want to be the person who tries to talk about 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:42.960 raising wages? And it was like everyone was just like no. 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.400 And you know, people, you know, like these guys are 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:48.000 like very right wing and they were just sort of 0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:49.640 like piste off all the time. But it was interesting 0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:51.040 because the thing they were piste off all the time 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:55.960 about was that, like, you know, their union didn't do 0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:59.760 anything like the union like they they they're they they 0:30:59.880 --> 0:31:02.080 they they they were. They were basically constantly annoyed that 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.920 like the union didn't like the the the union wasn't 0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:07.800 fighting for pay raises, uson wasn't sort of fighting. And 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:10.760 I think that was, you know, an example of how 0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:14.760 this stuff sort of just fails if if people aren't 0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:17.320 like if people don't feel like they can actually do 0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:23.120 something like itself. I mean, and they call it service unionism. 0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:26.600 There's this idea that like um or like like that 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:28.760 a business union's job is to kind of serve you 0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:31.640 and you kind of like they do all the work. 0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:35.280 Like one of the complaints that some people who are 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:37.920 not big fans of our union and our hospital is 0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:42.560 that like, oh, well, other other unions have lawyers negotiate 0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:46.960 the contract for you. And when we negotiate, we have 0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:50.239 a room full of nurses who are doing the who 0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:53.959 are doing the negotiations, and the goal is to have 0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:57.800 it be as transparent as possible. And like the idea 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.880 that you're going to hand over negotiate sations to a 0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:05.320 lawyer and somehow get a better deal than than a 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:09.080 room full of of the actual workers. And it's funny 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:12.120 because we have our bargaining team and then like will 0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:14.840 periodically do something called open bargaining because it's the thing 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:16.880 that bosses hate. It's like they want to make a 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:20.800 deal like with a door shut right, um, But there's 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.400 no reason why a union has to do that. Like, 0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:26.120 you can invite whoever you want to your bargaining. You 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:28.880 can invite community members to your bargaining if you feel 0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:32.640 like you're man it could because management behind closed doors 0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:35.080 will say all kinds of things, and you know they'll 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:37.840 they'll trash talk everyone involved and they'll you know, and 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:42.600 they will make absurd demands about you know, it's like, oh, 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:44.200 you're all gonna take a pay cut you know on 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:47.360 this contract, that sort of thing, and they hate it. 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.920 They absolutely hate it when like workers actually show up 0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:58.320 to these things. And so, um, I think that understanding that, Like, 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:02.680 I think there's this idea that like some people are 0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:05.120 big on like we have to be kind of like 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:09.160 secretive to like get the best deal, and like we 0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:12.480 shouldn't be like we shouldn't be transparent with everyone about 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:15.520 what's going on because that's how like because then they'll 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:18.520 figure out some way to counter us. But in my experience, 0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:23.560 my understanding is that the more transparent your union is, 0:33:24.360 --> 0:33:29.440 the more involved people get, and the more able people are, 0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:31.000 the more willing people are to put their time and 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:32.960 energy into it. Because that's what comes down to, is 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:34.920 like people out to like everyone's working and busy and 0:33:34.960 --> 0:33:38.400 their life life is hard and sucks, and so like 0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:41.240 do you have time to dedicate to show up to 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:44.160 like talk to like if you why would you go 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:46.719 to a union meeting if when you raise the concern 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:50.120 like we want higher wages and like the union like 0:33:50.240 --> 0:33:54.400 staffer doesn't care if you get higher wages, because they're 0:33:54.440 --> 0:33:56.920 like while we're getting our union dudes, and like what 0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:01.240 what then do we care? Right, that's like huge problem. 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:03.160 And the part of the thing is that those problems 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:05.600 don't get solved if they if they exist, because they 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.440 that definitely exists in some mu and a lot of unions, 0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:12.600 more unions than uh than not um if the workers 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:18.160 don't get organized together. Like we just saw an election 0:34:18.200 --> 0:34:27.240 within the Teamsters International where uh the halfa uh Jimmy 0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:29.960 Haffa Jr. One of the half a kids was like 0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:33.560 president of the union and was this like not doing 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:37.520 a great job and um, and like there was a 0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:42.440 ranking file like push to get that guy uh unelected, 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:44.400 you know, and put it replaced with a rank and 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:48.160 file worker who wants to put actual time and resources 0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:50.680 into organizing. You know. Like there's nothing sadder than a 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:55.560 than like watching a union campaign failed because the union 0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:59.120 clearly is phoning it in, Like that's happened. I've seen 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:01.960 it happen, not inside my union, but in other unions 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:06.479 and uh and I mean like at my workplace, there's 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:09.200 several unions and I've seen I've seen a failed campaign 0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:12.440 and it's like obvious, like there's you know, I'm not 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:15.680 I don't co sign everything that someone like Jay mccavalary. 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:18.719 I think that's altay share McCay bleary has to say. 0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:21.799 She wrote like no shortcuts. Um, I don't sign off 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:23.239 on everything she has to say, but she has some 0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:26.919 really insightful things. It's like if you're not organizing to win, 0:35:27.520 --> 0:35:29.799 like you'll fail, and like you have to take this 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:32.480 so seriously. And that's where like I'll say that, like, 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:34.600 if you've got a choice between I'm gonna put time 0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:39.480 into a political political campaign versus a union campaign, You're 0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:41.080 going to get way more bang for your buck. You're 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:43.319 gonna get so much more experience. You're gonna get like 0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:47.520 a durable organization that's going to be around for years 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:51.680 if you put that time into a union campaign. Because like, 0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:57.160 imagine winning an election, right, um, except the politician you're 0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:01.040 running against is the incumbent, and they can um basically 0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:04.440 drag every one of their constituents into like a meeting 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:07.279 and tell them how awful you are all the time, 0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:10.640 and lie and say whatever they want, and then they can, 0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:13.560 you know, do all kinds of tricks to like basically 0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.680 dismantle your campaign. So I guess, like the thing that 0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:18.799 I would say is that like if you if you 0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:21.920 do it the right way and you actually win one 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:24.360 of those campaigns, you're going to come out way ahead 0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:26.520 and sort of understanding, like you have to talk to people, 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:28.160 you have to be super organized, you have to know 0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:32.840 what people's issues are in their different targeting units. UM. 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:36.160 You have to find people like part of like it's 0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:38.960 successful campaigns. I've been part of literally going on a 0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:42.600 search to go find like the people that need to 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:46.040 be like signing cards and stuff. And you just have 0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:48.560 to be a very good listener, ready to talk and 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:51.680 listen and hear what people have to say. Um, and 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:56.440 then turn that um information into knowledge, knowledge and power 0:36:56.960 --> 0:37:01.480 um and UM. I think that, uh, if you pull 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:05.000 it off, you have done something substantially harder than say 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:07.759 like winning a school board election or something like that. 0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:11.080 I mean, it's it's it really is. It's like taking 0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:14.239 like those kind of skills that you would use to 0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:17.479 like win some sort of small municipal election, and it's 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:20.759 like exponentially more hard because the rules are just so 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:25.640 tilted against you winning. So if you are serious about it, 0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:29.000 if you're serious about changing the world, if you can't 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:32.120 like someone. Yeah, I think Murray Bucksen once said, if 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:35.120 you can't run for dog catcher, you probably shouldn't be 0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:39.040 talking about revolution, you know, But I think that probably 0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:41.840 more you know, more appropriate to be, Like, if you 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:44.480 can't win a union election, you probably shouldn't be talking 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:47.600 about revolution because even if you want to do all 0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:50.880 the things, you need to have the ability, the skills, 0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:54.400 the ability to mediate conflict, getting everyone on board, to 0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:57.520 do the collective action that like you would need to 0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.400 do to successfully kind of like carry out like you know, 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:04.000 it's one thing to have the grand insurrection, it's the 0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:06.400 other thing to carry it forward and keep hering it 0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:08.800 to the point where you're over the line you've completely 0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:12.080 changed the world, right, So, and I think that and 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:15.719 so I just think that like UM and I think 0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:18.320 that's similar things go with like you know, tenant organizing, 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:22.719 community organizing. There's various types of organizing that use those 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:26.040 similar skills that you get in like a union campaign, UM. 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:30.319 And it's just a very different type of UM politics 0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:34.400 and organization and skills that you would get from you know, 0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:37.440 showing up for your local justice dem and you know, 0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:39.840 like knocking on the doors of strangers, you'll never you 0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:42.080 may never speak to you again. You know, when you're 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.279 talking with your coworkers, those your coworkers are going to 0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:47.560 be there until you're you know, you retire or you're 0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:52.040 fired or you quit. So anyway, that's I guess that's 0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:54.680 another good takeaway I think from all this. So one 0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:57.960 thing I wanted to make sure to get to is, 0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:02.120 so I think there's a lot of people who are 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.960 listening to this who working out non union workplaces and 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.160 want to try to start this, and I wanted to 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:13.160 know what would be your recommendations for them, you know, how, 0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:15.759 how how do you start this process? What does this 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:20.360 look like? In what kinds of conversations should you be 0:39:20.440 --> 0:39:25.400 having with your coworkers? Yeah, for sure. So, um, I 0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:27.520 think one of the first things that I think a 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:31.799 lot of people, a lot of people don't understand is 0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:35.160 that there's an amount of risk and stuff too organizing, 0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:38.000 and that you're like, first off, like you should be 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:41.480 chill and like not like running around telling everyone you 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:43.080 want a union because that's a great way to lose 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:46.640 your job. Um. I think the thing is is that 0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:50.520 you build relationships and find out what's happening, like just 0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:54.960 like you know, take from your experience and figure out 0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:58.160 what's like in uh, like, man, it really sucks, like 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:00.320 I got like I got screwed o here on my 0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:04.120 vacation requests, or like I you know, man, are raises 0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:06.279 were really shitty this year And I heard like you know, 0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:09.719 boss talking about like how much like like they've made 0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:13.799 so much money that sort of thing. Um. So I 0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:18.000 think that it comes down to you have to be 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:21.839 It's kind of like a combination of like like an 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:26.680 investigative reporter and like someone who is just really good 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:29.440 at like talking to people and just kind of like 0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:34.440 understanding what's making them tick and understanding also that maybe 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:36.880 you're not the person who's going to get everyone on board, 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:40.879 but that finding other people who every Like I think 0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:43.759 the big thing is like who's like the most respected 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:47.000 person on like in your work area that sort of thing, 0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:50.160 who like they know that the unit or they know 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:52.799 the work area, they've been there the longest, they have 0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:55.480 like the most experience. People look up to them. There 0:40:55.480 --> 0:40:57.480 are the people who train other people that sort of thing. 0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:00.759 Those are the people who everyone looks too. When it 0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:03.520 comes down to these sorts of things, and you know, 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.120 just you don't have to be friends with everybody, but 0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:08.799 like doing it's I think it's really good to just, 0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:13.600 like two, be open to listening to everybody that you 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:16.600 work with and finding out what it is that's really 0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:22.000 going on. Yes, I've noticed like in a lot of 0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:25.919 places that I've worked, like the bosses often don't really 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:30.200 know what's going on either, like they and I think 0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:32.200 that that that's something they can give you. If you 0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:35.319 understand how the process works and who's doing what and 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:38.560 what people like need, that gives you like a big 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:42.640 advantage over the bosses who just have no idea what's 0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:49.200 going on, which I think, Yeah, I think it's very 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:53.080 it's very normal for bosses to really not know what's happening, 0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:56.600 and there's always someone who does, like figuring out the 0:41:56.640 --> 0:42:00.799 people who really know how things work are like those 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:04.080 are like the those are the people who, um, you 0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:07.759 want to be talking with and figuring out like where 0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:13.319 they kind of stand on things, and um, you know, 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:15.359 I think like the first step is like just having 0:42:15.400 --> 0:42:19.480 good relationships and people trusting you and you know, you know, 0:42:19.640 --> 0:42:22.560 if you know, Like, I don't think everyone needs to 0:42:22.600 --> 0:42:24.719 be a superstar workers sort of thing to be a 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:28.080 good union organizer. But like they always say, it's like 0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:31.480 people who have the most problems oftentimes are people that 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:34.239 are don't make great organizers because people don't see them 0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:39.839 as people to follow. But um um, but I think 0:42:39.840 --> 0:42:42.239 that it's important to just like talk with your to 0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:44.480 like just figure out what's going on first. That's your 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:46.759 first step. Figure out what's going on? What are the 0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:50.080 things I mean? And you can come around together in 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:52.760 you know, and like and how do you get people 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.960 outside of the workplace? So you talk like how do you, 0:42:56.239 --> 0:42:58.600 like do you have like a group chat or signal 0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:01.359 chat or like a what to app chat or Facebook group? 0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:03.319 And where do you just like start kind of like 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.160 and you know, be very care be careful about who's involved, 0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:08.479 and just kind of like low key to like start 0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:12.040 talking with folks and identifying to people who, um, who 0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:15.120 are outside of your work area, who know people Like 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:17.320 sometimes it's you know, you'll talk to people and they're like, 0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:19.520 I don't want to talk about a union, but you'll 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:22.320 be like, do you know anyone who cares? Who who 0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:25.840 has said anything about unions before? And so talking to 0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:29.040 people to find out who they know, Like these are 0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:31.600 all this kind of like crucial first steps to like organizing. 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:35.920 And I think the thing is is that, like there 0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:38.960 have been times where you'll have a non union workplace 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:43.359 where if the people in a particular area of of 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:46.080 like a of like a hospital or like a workplace 0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:49.080 or whatever, we'll do some collective thing that gets some 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:51.719 sort of results. So I think it's always like it's like, 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:55.920 let's get people to sign off on a petition about 0:43:55.960 --> 0:44:01.320 like you know, like if of your coworkers are unhappy 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:03.399 with like races or something like that. Like the more 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:06.960 people that are involved in those first steps, the more 0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:11.319 likely it is that it won't result in retaliation and 0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:14.840 like you'll end up getting some sort of victory. Um. 0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:18.879 So I guess like the thing that I would say 0:44:18.960 --> 0:44:23.160 is just like be be ready for like people to 0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:27.480 look at greet you with skepticism because like it's it's hard, 0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:30.960 it's a hard thing to do, and always just be 0:44:31.000 --> 0:44:33.960 finding out what is bothering people and then look at 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:36.560 little things that you can do to kind of like 0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:42.000 flex power, like to like collectively flex your power. And um, 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:45.719 it can be as small as like everyone bringing up 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:49.160 the same issue at like a work meeting, right like 0:44:49.320 --> 0:44:52.160 if you and it could be like, hey, let's talk 0:44:52.239 --> 0:44:54.120 about this is this work meeting, this is and if 0:44:54.160 --> 0:44:58.480 we all say something together like, we're going to be fine. Right. UM, 0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:02.239 So like starting with those first steps, I think it's 0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:04.600 the first like thing, Like the first thing is know 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:08.279 what's going on, build relationships, be a trustworthy person, Like 0:45:08.560 --> 0:45:11.200 you can't be like the unit gossip or the the 0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:14.040 work area gossip that like knows that's in everyone's business 0:45:14.080 --> 0:45:17.200 or stirring up stuff and be successful at this UM. 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:20.239 But if you are, you know, if you're someone that 0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:23.440 people like trust or look to or you know, like 0:45:23.480 --> 0:45:25.760 a person that people are like they help solve our problems, 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:28.640 those are the people who I mean, you're going to 0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:31.040 be well set to begin to kind of take the 0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.040 steps on that and then you know as you kind 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:37.880 of build those kind of like build that organization step 0:45:37.920 --> 0:45:43.360 by step. No, no union UM is going to invest 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:47.000 the time in a union campaign if it's just you 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:50.160 and like to other people like you need like you 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:51.920 need to get a room. They're always say like, well, 0:45:51.960 --> 0:45:53.520 if you get a room full of people together, I'm 0:45:53.560 --> 0:45:55.799 willing to talk to them. And that's kind of the thing. 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:58.160 And you know, zoom and stuff has actually made that 0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:01.920 a little bit easier UM, which in some ways can 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:04.160 be a weakness because you end up with like it's 0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:06.479 a lot less commitment to show up to a zoom 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:09.759 meeting that it is to UM to show up at 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:13.960 like a bar or a place after work UM or 0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:17.120 a church or wherever it's like a good like like 0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:19.640 neutral safe place that people feel like they can be 0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:22.160 honest with each other about what's going on. UM. But 0:46:22.320 --> 0:46:30.240 at the same time, just like being the more the 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.279 the more people you get on board with the thing, 0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:36.800 the more likely that it will succeed. You'll attract support 0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:39.960 from like an actual union that m is able to 0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:41.839 help you if you decide that that's how you want 0:46:41.840 --> 0:46:43.840 to do it, or if that makes sense in a 0:46:43.920 --> 0:46:47.400 legal context. And so I just like always like start small, 0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:50.520 figure out the small things, be willing to do like 0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:54.480 collective action to get little small victories. And that's a 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:57.480 great way to get started, I think, and then like 0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:00.400 really do like sleuthing and research, like figure about how 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:04.840 things actually work. UM. That's like, you know, that was 0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:07.319 the problem with the best amerket campaign down in uh 0:47:07.520 --> 0:47:10.400 down in Alabama with those Amazon workers is they didn't 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:13.680 know how many people worked at that facility, and then 0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:15.120 all of a sudden they're like, oh, yeah, we're going 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:17.960 to include like an extra thousand people in this vote, 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:22.880 you know, like six weeks out, and you know, like 0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:24.200 I don't want to I don't want to take a 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:26.480 dump on the people who did that. But like, if 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.600 you don't know that there's like another thousand people, or 0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:32.360 you don't have like everyone on board, you're not going 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:35.879 to succeed. So no, everything you can as you're going 0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:38.160 in and do everything you can to find out things 0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:40.960 or make buddies with the friends, but our buddies of 0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:44.080 the people who are gonna you know, know these things 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:46.799 and you know, and then support each other, like it 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:50.520 means showing up when like someone Sometimes what we do 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:55.640 during these campaigns is someone will will have the contact 0:47:55.640 --> 0:47:58.239 for someone who's interested, and then your job is to 0:47:58.280 --> 0:48:01.520 go and find that person where they work and talk 0:48:01.560 --> 0:48:03.239 with them, and then talk with them while they talk 0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:05.799 with their coworkers, or back up them while they're talking 0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:08.280 to the co workers, because they trust their their coworkers, 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:11.960 trust their coworker. You know, you're a random stranger, you know, 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:13.719 And then like, don't be afraid to say I don't know, 0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:16.200 but I will find out. Right, there's like this, there's 0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:18.680 this pressure I think to like have all the answers 0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:22.080 to like whatever people's questions are. And I think that 0:48:22.200 --> 0:48:28.600 it's like, um, I think that it's like, I think 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:33.680 that it's important to be honest when you don't understand, 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:35.520 but then do the work of figuring out the answers 0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:39.080 for people. Um. And I think people respect that. And 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:41.360 you know, a lot of people who are vocally against 0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:44.799 these sorts of things up front, it's because they don't know. 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:47.319 And if you you know, you're like, no, we've got 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:50.360 a right to do this, or like, you know, the 0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:53.640 the you know, a management will say things like managion, 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:58.120 it will say things like oh you will, um, you know, 0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:01.680 the union will get in between our relationship with you know, 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:05.000 with you and us, right, And the point is is 0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:07.160 that like, well, the union is us where the cod 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.439 where the people doing it? Like everyone running. You can't 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:11.759 run a union if you don't have a bunch of 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:15.200 people involved from the workplace. And it's like and making 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:18.440 sure that the people who are um, those people who 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:21.279 end up being kind of like spokespersons for everyone else 0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.040 are people that folks trust and they have like a 0:49:24.080 --> 0:49:29.719 good like grasp of what everyone wants and yeah, so yeah, 0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:31.400 and then like you know, don't get bogged down in 0:49:31.440 --> 0:49:34.520 the legal ship. Like you know, collective action really is 0:49:34.600 --> 0:49:37.560 like your most powerful tool, um all the other kind 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:40.560 of like the grievances and that's some stuff. It's important 0:49:40.600 --> 0:49:42.560 and you can't let it go. But it's also like 0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:47.160 it's designed to kind of grind people down. So um, 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:50.520 you know, the more collective action you take, like the 0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:52.600 more likely it is that you're going to be successful 0:49:52.640 --> 0:50:05.400 and keep people engaged and excited. Yeah, going back to 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:08.640 what you were saying earlier, this might mind out being 0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:13.759 last episode depending on where this breaksdown time wise, But yeah, 0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:16.160 I think it's also it's just this is gonna take 0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:21.799 time and a lot of work, And I think it's 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:25.279 it's it's important age to understand going in that this 0:50:25.360 --> 0:50:27.560 is a long and difficult process. It's not gonna happen overnight, 0:50:27.600 --> 0:50:31.920 and be that it's a lot of work, Like you 0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:33.920 have to There's there's a lot of things that you 0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:35.640 have to do. There's a lot of sort of logistics, 0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:39.200 there's a lot of talking, there's a lot of like negotiating, 0:50:39.200 --> 0:50:40.799 there's a lot of sort of. I mean just just 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:44.960 even I don't know, before anything gets off the ground, 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:47.240 you have to spend enormous amounts of time and effort 0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:50.319 doing stuff and that's that's that's like it's just the 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:54.040 reality of it. So yeah, there's there's no there's there's 0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:56.879 no there's there's there's there's no magic bullet like there's 0:50:56.880 --> 0:50:59.680 no sort of yeah, there's there's no just like one 0:50:59.840 --> 0:51:02.480 thing you can do that like magically makes it you 0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:05.560 need appear. It's a bunch of people coming together and 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:09.279 like fighting for it for a long time. Yeah, I 0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:11.080 think that that's like the main thing is like you're 0:51:11.440 --> 0:51:14.920 it's it's a cliche that's like it's a marathon, not 0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:19.400 as prints. Um. Sometimes I hate when people say that ship, 0:51:19.480 --> 0:51:24.000 but it's true, like you you really do have like, um, 0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:25.839 you're in it for the long haul, and a lot 0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:29.759 of times it's like your people are ready to do 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:33.160 these things when they're like this is like I don't 0:51:33.200 --> 0:51:35.040 want you know, it's one thing to pop up in 0:51:35.080 --> 0:51:37.160 a place and be there for like you know, six months, 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:40.279 like I need a we need a union, right, No 0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:42.520 one you know that works in that place, trust you, 0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:44.960 they don't know who you are, Like they're not going 0:51:45.000 --> 0:51:47.840 to follow you to do anything or you know, or 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:51.719 take your you know, follow your lead. Um, it's the 0:51:51.760 --> 0:51:54.520 people who are like, I'm gonna be here, this is 0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:56.560 my this is where I want to be, and you know, 0:51:56.640 --> 0:51:58.680 this is a I want to be here for the 0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:00.799 next few years, and think of it is like a 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:03.680 long term investment in the quality of your life and 0:52:03.680 --> 0:52:08.080 the quality of life at your workplace, because to win, 0:52:08.200 --> 0:52:11.600 you have to be sticking around, you know. And I 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.239 think that's where it gets tough with people who are 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:19.920 in like precarious types of employment or different types of 0:52:20.000 --> 0:52:22.080 and that's where you have to start looking at alternate 0:52:22.080 --> 0:52:25.839 ways to organize because maybe you're a precarious worker who 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:29.400 does maybe you drive, like for a right here service, 0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:32.040 or maybe you like do delivery or like you know, 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:35.120 um for an app or whatever to delivery for an app. 0:52:35.160 --> 0:52:38.680 And I think the thing is is like that sort 0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:41.960 of thing because of how and you know, these aren't 0:52:42.040 --> 0:52:44.319 like new forms of work. This is actually really old 0:52:44.320 --> 0:52:46.719 forms of work that are just like been like rebranded 0:52:46.719 --> 0:52:50.640 by tech bros who have decided like they're like they're 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:53.520 like they're great genius is like rebranding the kind of 0:52:53.560 --> 0:52:56.800 like precarious work that was really like prominent like throughout 0:52:56.800 --> 0:52:59.560 the nineteenth century. And it's like, so then what do 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:02.080 you do as you come up with ways to organize 0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:05.640 people regardless of like oh, like I'm you know, I 0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:08.560 work for this, like I work for lift or work 0:53:08.600 --> 0:53:10.400 for Uber and it kind of switches back and forth. 0:53:10.520 --> 0:53:12.680 Like the thing is, it's like that's when you start 0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:18.160 talking with you know, rideshare drivers across different like apps 0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:20.279 or whatever, and then you come up with a way 0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:24.359 to work collectively um to to change sorts of things. 0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:27.680 And sometimes that's it's gonna be it's gonna be tough, 0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:29.920 you know. And that's when I kind of look at 0:53:29.920 --> 0:53:31.759 those that sort of thing is like this is where 0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:35.280 it's a learning experience and maybe I don't get everything 0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:37.600 I want, but you know it's really important. I mean, 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:40.200 it's like building these networks that people who care about 0:53:40.360 --> 0:53:43.600 like what they're working conditions are like, and you can 0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:46.640 pull things off maybe unexpectedly that you didn't expect. We're 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:50.759 going to be like the thing, you know, like you 0:53:50.800 --> 0:53:53.080 may start with something that looks like a union drive 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:56.719 and then you end up with something that looks like 0:53:57.239 --> 0:53:59.000 very different it could you know, could go in all 0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:02.920 sorts of different direction. So um, you know there and 0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:05.360 look outside of the US, you know, their countries where 0:54:05.440 --> 0:54:08.480 like in UM, I think that there have been some 0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:14.960 pretty successful delivery app organ to organizing in London UM. 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:19.360 And you know, I think that to a certain extent, 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:25.319 like formal extent, US unions have not been very successful 0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:30.440 in organizing those workers because it doesn't it's hard to 0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:35.759 do from the extant business union model, and so it's 0:54:35.800 --> 0:54:38.000 like it's one of those things where you know it 0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:42.319 used to be, you know, they would have like you know, 0:54:42.400 --> 0:54:44.480 the fight would be instead of trying to get like 0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:51.279 workers are like a contract at a particular like work site, 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:53.279 you set up a hiring hall, like the i w 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.759 W would set up hiring halls UM and like you 0:54:56.800 --> 0:54:58.839 know for lumberjacks and that sort of thing, and those 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:01.400 workers are always pre areas right, but they would go 0:55:01.640 --> 0:55:04.959 trying set up so that like people would only take 0:55:05.080 --> 0:55:07.120 jobs out of the hiring hall and that's how they 0:55:07.120 --> 0:55:09.279 would control their like their work. And I think that 0:55:10.400 --> 0:55:14.640 more unions needed. And part of this is like if 0:55:14.680 --> 0:55:17.840 there's any union people out there who are in staff 0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:19.560 and that sort of thing is like there needs to 0:55:19.600 --> 0:55:22.960 be a serious re examination of how we do unions 0:55:23.000 --> 0:55:25.040 in this country. And I think a lot of people 0:55:25.080 --> 0:55:28.600 inside unions understand that, but no one has quite done 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:31.120 it yet in a way that's effective. And I think 0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:33.960 that we really do need to kind of re evaluate 0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:37.839 that sort of stuff. So just you know, as someone 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:40.360 who's going into like a new sort of organizing campaign, 0:55:40.400 --> 0:55:46.160 just understand that like getting the union contract isn't necessarily 0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:48.000 the end gold end goal is to try and get 0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:50.560 your boss to do things differently so that you're not 0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:53.880 like miserable at work. And that might look like a contract, 0:55:53.960 --> 0:55:56.839 or it might look like you know, a a one 0:55:56.920 --> 0:55:59.920 day like uh, you know, app strike or something like that. 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:01.919 You know, you'll you'll figure you've got to figure out 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:06.040 how it's gonna work. Like with you know, in healthcare, 0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:10.120 you know, there's this idea that like, you know, there's 0:56:10.160 --> 0:56:12.399 the gold standard of the strike where you strike until 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:13.839 we win and we're out for like you know, like 0:56:13.880 --> 0:56:16.000 two or three months. Well, the problem is is that 0:56:16.040 --> 0:56:20.359 there's an industry of scab nurses and healthcare workers where 0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:23.320 at any point they can bring in people to replace 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:26.040 enough of you that a hospital can maintain operations. And 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:29.520 unless you're super organized like they were up in um Buffalo, 0:56:30.480 --> 0:56:34.600 uh with c W A like, and have a big 0:56:34.640 --> 0:56:37.200 network of people and you're ready to go to like 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:39.719 you know, board like picket board members houses and that 0:56:39.760 --> 0:56:43.520 sort of stuff. Um, those long term strikes can end 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:46.200 in defeat where you end up with you know, you're 0:56:46.239 --> 0:56:50.239 all replaced with scabs and and it sucks and it's happened, 0:56:50.680 --> 0:56:52.440 and then you gotta I guess you gotta learn from it, 0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:56.120 you know, like we've there was a famous strike in 0:56:56.120 --> 0:57:01.000 Minnesota with healthcare workers and they went out and they 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:02.919 were out for months and months, and there are people 0:57:02.920 --> 0:57:04.680 on you know, going to the super kitchen to feed 0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:08.920 their kids and stuff, and they lost right. And so 0:57:09.120 --> 0:57:11.560 my union tends to do one day strikes, but instead 0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:14.520 of just being at one hospital, we organized multiple hospitals 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:17.120 across the country so that it soaks up all the 0:57:17.240 --> 0:57:21.560 like scat drives up scabs and it really like that. 0:57:21.640 --> 0:57:25.200 I think ideas like intermittent strikes were actually a really 0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:28.280 powerful tool back when you know, back when it was 0:57:28.320 --> 0:57:29.840 the c I oh and it was like we're going 0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:32.840 to just stop working until he fixed this problem. UM, 0:57:32.840 --> 0:57:34.720 and that's why they made them illegal and it takes 0:57:34.720 --> 0:57:36.160 a lot of work to pull them off. But if 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:38.080 you can't pull them off, that could be an effective way. 0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:40.920 And if you're not in a union, maybe getting people 0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:43.840 down for a one day like work stoppage at your 0:57:43.880 --> 0:57:46.680 work or even you know, maybe it's like we're not 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:49.640 starting our shift right. I've been in the room. I've 0:57:49.640 --> 0:57:50.960 been in the room where it's like, no, we're not 0:57:50.960 --> 0:57:54.320 going out to take that assignment until like we get 0:57:54.360 --> 0:57:58.040 our staff situation set up like fixed. And you know, 0:57:58.160 --> 0:58:04.320 sometimes it's just those collective actions are you know, it's 0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:06.400 not the end, Like there's no end. I'll be all 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:09.480 one size fits all solution, just be ready to kind 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:12.520 of like explore what it means get all the resources 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:15.760 you can. There's groups like there's still like the Industrial 0:58:15.760 --> 0:58:19.200 Workers the World, which has really good organizing trainings o 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:22.120 T one oh one and one oh two. I'll pitch 0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.680 that as a member of as a also a dual 0:58:24.720 --> 0:58:27.800 carding member of the i w w UM. But there's 0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:32.840 also Labor notes UM and other groups like Essential Workers 0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:35.440 Organizing Committee that's sort of things that like give you 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:38.560 good like rundowns on how to do the organizing work. 0:58:39.400 --> 0:58:44.320 So just be careful, always be careful, be aware that 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:48.680 people are afraid. Bosses use fear um to scare you guys, 0:58:48.960 --> 0:58:52.520 to scare everybody, and like, the the more people on 0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:54.800 board with a thing, the less fear. Like it's amazing 0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:56.720 when you're running up into a strike and you're really 0:58:56.840 --> 0:58:59.280 firing on all cylinders and like everyone in your like 0:58:59.320 --> 0:59:02.200 work areas we're getting together to take a picture, like 0:59:02.200 --> 0:59:04.120 get ready to go on strike, and it's like literally, 0:59:04.920 --> 0:59:07.200 i mean when we went on strike, when our hospital 0:59:07.200 --> 0:59:09.080 went on strike, it was the first time where like 0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:12.840 there was like nurses on one places the first time 0:59:12.920 --> 0:59:16.600 when all of us were in one place ever. And 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:20.840 it's just massive like coming together thing experience. And it's 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:23.440 really hard to describe when you when because you know, 0:59:23.480 --> 0:59:26.560 we're always griping at each other about this or that thing. 0:59:26.640 --> 0:59:28.600 It's like, but when you're actually all out there together 0:59:28.680 --> 0:59:30.480 on the same time, when you pull it off, it's 0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:35.360 really amazing. Um, it's hard, it's it's hard to describe, um, 0:59:35.400 --> 0:59:38.000 but when you do it, it's like it's like the 0:59:38.000 --> 0:59:41.640 purest drug. And so've I've heard some people who are 0:59:41.720 --> 0:59:44.160 union skeptical be like well, you just experienced like the 0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:46.960 good ship and like what about all the defeats, Like, well, 0:59:47.480 --> 0:59:49.800 get the little hits, get the little hits here and there, 0:59:49.840 --> 0:59:52.000 and get yourself to the point where you can do 0:59:52.040 --> 0:59:54.680 the big thing. You know, you're the whole thing is 0:59:54.720 --> 0:59:56.920 like getting people to do the thing is like the 0:59:57.400 --> 1:00:01.960 is it's like the perennial uh, you know, curse at 1:00:02.000 --> 1:00:04.200 the left, can you do it? Or curse of you know, 1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:09.720 like the organizer activist or you know, whatever you wanna 1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:12.360 call it. You know, it's just but you know, if 1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:16.439 you don't do anything, nothing happens. You can all sit 1:00:16.440 --> 1:00:20.200 and complain and nothing changes. So you know the only 1:00:20.200 --> 1:00:22.680 way to changes things is take those complaints and turn 1:00:22.720 --> 1:00:25.439 them into collective action. Yeah, I think I think that's 1:00:25.480 --> 1:00:27.480 that's that that that that that's that's a pretty good 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:31.560 positive note to end on. Just go do things. Go 1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:35.720 do the thing now. Stop tweets, stop tweeting, stop tweeting 1:00:35.720 --> 1:00:41.600 about it, Go do the thing. Um yeah, I think 1:00:41.600 --> 1:00:44.200 that's I. Like, I guess one last thing because I 1:00:44.200 --> 1:00:46.400 talked about social media and talk you know, I talked smack. 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:48.560 I like, I've been off Twitter for some months now, 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:52.000 is it really cleared my brain. But you know, um, 1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:56.880 being on finding the social media space where your your 1:00:56.880 --> 1:01:00.400 coworkers are at is really important and that might mean 1:01:00.440 --> 1:01:03.720 setting up like a discord or you know, what's app 1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:06.600 or a Facebook group. You can set up secret Facebook 1:01:06.600 --> 1:01:09.240 groups that no one could see. And yeah, like like 1:01:09.320 --> 1:01:14.240 Facebook will periodically shut them down. But like our hospital 1:01:14.280 --> 1:01:16.400 has like a like a Facebook group with like two 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:20.760 thousand nurses and we and that's where we got really 1:01:20.800 --> 1:01:23.000 amped up. And it was a way for us to 1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:24.920 be talking with each other and talk each other through, 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:29.280 um the stress of setting up you know this thing. 1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:33.480 And then also like you know, people workers can't organize 1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:37.600 like like people will do organizing even if like they 1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:40.560 don't have like that full support. So like some coworkers, 1:01:40.760 --> 1:01:43.960 not coworkers, but members of my union went on strike 1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:46.760 at Cook County this year, and the whole thing was 1:01:46.840 --> 1:01:51.200 organized practically without like staff, right because the staff were 1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:55.320 barred from being in meetings, like in person meetings because 1:01:55.360 --> 1:01:58.360 of COVID and they couldn't go into the hospital because 1:01:58.360 --> 1:02:03.000 of COVID. So people were very pissed about how things 1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:04.680 have been going and they were talking to each other 1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:08.480 and we organized that strike. They organized that strike on 1:02:08.480 --> 1:02:12.440 their own practically, um. You know, it lined up. They 1:02:12.440 --> 1:02:14.600 were off there. You know, they didn't have the no 1:02:14.760 --> 1:02:18.480 strike clause like operating at the time, and um, and 1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:22.760 they pulled off like a pretty like a significant victory 1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:25.320 um from their one day strike and it really um 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:29.080 really you know, like got them some big wins. But 1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:31.600 and they didn't they didn't need the union to do 1:02:31.640 --> 1:02:33.400 it for them. You know, the union was kind of 1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:36.800 like a facilitation tool rather than like the thing that 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:38.320 got it done. I think that's the other thing is 1:02:38.360 --> 1:02:40.560 that there are people who think that like it's all 1:02:40.560 --> 1:02:43.600 dependent on like having like this hero staffer sort of 1:02:43.600 --> 1:02:47.040 thing situation, and at the end of the day, like 1:02:47.120 --> 1:02:49.360 if it's not the workers doing it themselves, nothing's going 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:55.360 to happen. Yeah. Yeah, the power, the power is with 1:02:55.400 --> 1:02:57.800 the working class itself, and if the working class doesn't 1:02:57.880 --> 1:03:01.040 use it, nothing will ever happen. Yeah. But if it 1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:08.080 does use it, I will trail off here. Sounds good. So, John, 1:03:08.160 --> 1:03:10.480 is is there any place that you want people to 1:03:10.480 --> 1:03:16.280 find things that you do? Like, Yeah, I used to 1:03:16.360 --> 1:03:22.320 be on Twitter. Um periodically will show up on uh 1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:27.160 varn vlog, which is uh see Derek Varnes m vlog 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:34.200 on YouTube. Um, there's I recommend people UH listen to. 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:37.040 There's a group of podcasts called the Emancipatient Network. I 1:03:37.360 --> 1:03:43.840 really like their stuff specially UM. There's a what's it 1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:47.040 called General Intellect Unit, which talks about like cybernetics and 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:50.800 the left. Um. They have a lot of particularly cool 1:03:50.800 --> 1:03:54.440 stuff that's just come out recently about UM, about strategy 1:03:54.520 --> 1:03:57.800 that I think is really important for everyone to understand. Um. 1:03:57.960 --> 1:04:02.400 I was a founding member of the uh Libertarian Socialist 1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:04.320 Caucus at d s A. But I'm no longer in 1:04:04.440 --> 1:04:07.439 d s A. There's a but that group is still 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:10.600 kind of kicking around. We're coming up with new things. Uh. 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:13.680 Then then I guess like, Um, the University of Chicago 1:04:13.800 --> 1:04:17.480 Labor Council is a group that I spend a lot 1:04:17.480 --> 1:04:20.760 of time with. And there's also a tennants United High 1:04:20.760 --> 1:04:22.800 Park with Loan, which is a tenant union that you 1:04:22.880 --> 1:04:29.960 helped set up. And to hell. Yeah, so you know, UM, 1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:33.080 go out there and you know, don't don't listen to 1:04:33.080 --> 1:04:35.760 me or don't try and find follow me. Go like 1:04:36.440 --> 1:04:38.680 you go figure it out and you're our neighborhood and yeah, 1:04:39.120 --> 1:04:41.320 and set up a mill set up a million different 1:04:41.360 --> 1:04:44.680 you know, like labor councils and worker committees and tenant 1:04:44.760 --> 1:04:49.120 unions that yeah, like build build power. That's why I 1:04:49.120 --> 1:04:52.320 think I sometimes we are afraid of the term power. 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:55.720 I think that power is that it's best when it's everybody. 1:04:55.800 --> 1:04:57.480 And so I guess I might say it's like go 1:04:57.520 --> 1:05:01.560 out there and build community and worker power are and um, 1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:06.040 don't be afraid because fear is the one thing that 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:10.120 they've got to wave over our heads. And sometimes you 1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:12.439 just got to take that jump and do the thing. 1:05:12.680 --> 1:05:15.000 And uh and that's how we're hopefully going to win 1:05:15.080 --> 1:05:18.360 one day, say in the world. Yep. And you can 1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:21.360 do this just like all of these things, everything we've 1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:25.160 been talking about for the past like two hours, these 1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:28.439 were all just done by ordinary people. Like there's there's 1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:30.440 there's it's all. It's all done my random people. And 1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:33.680 you know that random person can be you. You just 1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:39.120 have to go and do go to the thing. Yeah. 1:05:39.280 --> 1:05:42.840 So yeah, this that this has been It could happen here. 1:05:43.320 --> 1:05:45.840 You can find us on Twitter at happened here pod 1:05:45.880 --> 1:05:50.680 and also on Instagram there and uh yeah there's other 1:05:50.720 --> 1:05:54.520 cool zone stuff. Oh I guess yeah, there's there's there's 1:05:54.520 --> 1:05:57.439 a new show called Megacorp that that we have that's 1:05:57.480 --> 1:06:00.600 about how corporations are bad and the first season about Amazon. 1:06:00.720 --> 1:06:04.160 It's out now. Okay, it just doesn't have a Twitter, 1:06:04.600 --> 1:06:07.080 but yeah, it's it's called Megacorp and you can find 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:18.480 it wherever fine podcasts are distributed. Yes, okay, bye, It 1:06:18.520 --> 1:06:20.800 could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media 1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:23.720 or more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website 1:06:23.720 --> 1:06:25.840 cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:28.440 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1:06:28.480 --> 1:06:31.280 listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could 1:06:31.280 --> 1:06:34.280 Happen here, updated monthly at cool zone media dot com 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:36.240 slash sources. Thanks for listening.