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Speaker 1: Pushkin. I remember noticing that the vision in one of

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Speaker 1: my eyes was blurry, and I assumed it was my

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Speaker 1: contact lens. I took it out and I cleaned it,

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Speaker 1: popped it back in. I still realized that my eyesight

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Speaker 1: was blurry, so I ended up going to an optometrist

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Speaker 1: and he checked out my eye, did all the usual

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Speaker 1: eye exams, concluded that it was actually something neurological. My

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Speaker 1: brain was fine, but the nerve tissue that connects the

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Speaker 1: eye to the brain transmitting the image that my eye

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Speaker 1: was taking in was on the fritz. That's Christine Hot

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Speaker 1: describing a rare neurological condition that caused her vision to

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Speaker 1: rapidly deteriorate and left her legally blind by age twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Christine had to relearn how to navigate so much in

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Speaker 1: her life, the ins and outs of her home, opening

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Speaker 1: nail and cooking food for herself. Making a peanut, butter

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Speaker 1: and jelly sandwich, which had once been so straightforward for her,

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Speaker 1: now felt like a daunting task. I noticed that when

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Speaker 1: I put the jelly on the slice of bread, and

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Speaker 1: all of the jelly got all over the counter. It

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Speaker 1: dripped down my arm. When I tried to line, the

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Speaker 1: two slices of bread together like the sandwich seemed not perfect,

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Speaker 1: and I remember being very fresher with myself, throwing that

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Speaker 1: sandwich away and just telling myself, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: I'll be independent again. I don't think I'll be able

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Speaker 1: to ever cook again. Spoiler alert, Christine did cook again,

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Speaker 1: and she's found her independence again today. Christine's a world

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Speaker 1: renowned chef who goes by the nickname the Blind Cook.

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Speaker 1: She won season three of the hit reality TV show

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Speaker 1: Master Chef in twenty twelve, and she's written in New

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Speaker 1: York Times best selling book and owns two restaurants in Houston, Texas.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, a blind woman becomes a Master Chef

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Speaker 1: and redefines what independence means to her along the way,

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Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans,

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Speaker 1: A show about who we are and who we become

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Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. Christine Ha grew

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Speaker 1: up in a Vietnamese American family, and she loved the

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Speaker 1: traditional dishes her mom would cook for her. When Christine

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Speaker 1: got to college, she was eager to recreate some of

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Speaker 1: her mom's recipes to reconnect with her Vietnamese heritage, and

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Speaker 1: also to feel close to her mom, who had died

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Speaker 1: of cancer when Christine was thirteen. The more Christine cooked,

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Speaker 1: the more she realized just how much she loved it,

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Speaker 1: the recipes and the experience of sharing food with her

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Speaker 1: friends and family, so she turned it into a full

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Speaker 1: on hobby. But that all changed for Christine when she

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Speaker 1: was diagnosed with neuromilitis optica in her early twenties. She

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Speaker 1: experienced blurry vision, numbness in her arms and legs, partial paralysis,

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Speaker 1: and seizures. While medication would help with many of these symptoms,

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Speaker 1: doctors told her to expect severe and permanent vision loss.

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Speaker 1: I asked Christine to share what it was like to

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Speaker 1: receive this news. I was very fearful. I felt very

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Speaker 1: alone because at the time, I was in my early twenties,

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Speaker 1: and of course most of my friends were not experiencing that.

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Speaker 1: None of them I really knew, had to deal with

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Speaker 1: chronic illness, vision loss, those types of things. I think

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Speaker 1: when you're in your twenties, you assume you're invincible, and

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Speaker 1: you don't think you're going to be dealing with stuff

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Speaker 1: like that until you're much much older. So I felt

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Speaker 1: very alone in what I was experiencing and no one

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Speaker 1: could really relate, and so in my head I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: why are my friends not caring as much as I

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Speaker 1: do about what I'm going through? Or why are they

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Speaker 1: still able to laugh and do normal everyday things and

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Speaker 1: feel like that's okay when I can't. Can you say more?

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Speaker 1: You mentioned that you felt socially isolated, and I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if you can. I think this is so relatable for

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Speaker 1: so many people who go through unexpected and rare challenges

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Speaker 1: right that they don't feel that other people can relate

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Speaker 1: to them. So it's definitely a grief experience. So earlier

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Speaker 1: in life, I had to greet the loss of my

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Speaker 1: mom when she passed my when I was young, but

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Speaker 1: it's similar in that you go through the same motions.

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Speaker 1: I was in denial, and then I felt upset that

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Speaker 1: I was going through this and other people didn't understand.

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Speaker 1: I felt alone. Then I felt sad. I felt at times,

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Speaker 1: not often, but at times I felt sorry for myself,

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Speaker 1: like wondering why this was happening to me and not

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Speaker 1: somebody else. And then I think I had to allow

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Speaker 1: myself to sit in that space and feel that sadness

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Speaker 1: and feel that loss. I basically allowed myself to pity

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Speaker 1: myself and allowed myself to cry about it and ask

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Speaker 1: why is this happening to me and tell myself this

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Speaker 1: really sucks. And it took some time, a lot of

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Speaker 1: thinking and just kind of ruminating with my own thoughts

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Speaker 1: in my head. That it helped me come to the

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Speaker 1: realization that no matter what happens, the world is going

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Speaker 1: to keep on moving on. So the sun will continue

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Speaker 1: to rise, continue to set, regardless of what happens. And

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Speaker 1: it is a weird feeling, and I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: gone through this before with the loss of my mom.

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Speaker 1: Is like you wake up the next day and you're like,

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Speaker 1: there are still people driving to work, There's still people

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Speaker 1: going to school, There's still you know, people are still

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Speaker 1: living their lives, even though my life feels like it

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Speaker 1: just got turned up side down. You know, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that you had lost your mother at a young age.

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Speaker 1: I imagine that this forced a kind of independence on you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm wondering whether that independent mindset in some ways

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Speaker 1: prepared you for this moment of deteriorating vision. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: you say that because I almost thought it was the opposite.

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Speaker 1: So because I lost my mom when I was young,

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Speaker 1: I did feel like I had to grow up fairly

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Speaker 1: quickly and become very independent and rely mostly on myself.

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Speaker 1: And when I lost my mom, I realized that you

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Speaker 1: cannot depend on any person in your life because in

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Speaker 1: a second that person could be gone and then your

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Speaker 1: whole world gets turned upside down. So I think for me,

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Speaker 1: losing my mom forced me to be independent and not

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Speaker 1: depend on the people. But actually, when I started losing

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Speaker 1: my vision, I had to give up independence and I

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Speaker 1: had to depend on people more and ask for help

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Speaker 1: for even the most mundane of tasks like reading my

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Speaker 1: mail or trying to identify things in the refrigerator, or

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Speaker 1: pouring myself a glass of water to drink, And so

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Speaker 1: it stripped me of my independence. So in a way,

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Speaker 1: I really wasn't prepared for that, because losing my mom

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Speaker 1: did make me independent, and then losing my vision made

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Speaker 1: me learn to be dependent again. Yeah, and it sounds

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Speaker 1: like from what you're describing that being independent had become

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Speaker 1: a large part of your identity, So maybe you were

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Speaker 1: in part grieving a loss of independence since you were

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Speaker 1: now going to have to rely on people in a

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Speaker 1: way that you hadn't before. Oh, definitely. I always say

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Speaker 1: the hardest thing about the vision loss was the loss

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Speaker 1: of some of the independence that I was used to.

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Speaker 1: So your vision is slowly deteriorating. Is there a moment

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Speaker 1: where maybe it hits you for the first time, this

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Speaker 1: is not getting better in the past. Maybe I've been

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Speaker 1: able to fight my way through problems that this is

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Speaker 1: one I just don't have any chance against it. I

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Speaker 1: think I had several moments like that, One of which

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Speaker 1: I that really stands out of my head was a

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Speaker 1: moment when I had lost some more vision. And like

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Speaker 1: I'd mentioned, it was gradual over the years, So anytime

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Speaker 1: it would decrease a little bit to a new baseline,

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Speaker 1: I would start getting used to that base on be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well this is I can live with this. I'm getting

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Speaker 1: used to it. I can figure out how to still

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Speaker 1: walk around without a white cane, or I can enlarge

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Speaker 1: the font on my computer to thirty five point font

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Speaker 1: and still read my screen or whatnot. And then I

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Speaker 1: would as soon as I would get used to that

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Speaker 1: new baseline of my vision, it would decrease more and

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Speaker 1: I would lose more vision, and I'd have to feel

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Speaker 1: like I would start over. So I remember there was

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Speaker 1: one particular time when my vision pretty much decreased to

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Speaker 1: the level that it is now, which I describe as

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Speaker 1: very very blurry and very washed out colors, and I

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Speaker 1: just see some foggy shapes, as though if you were

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Speaker 1: to step out of a very very hot shower and

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Speaker 1: your mirrors all fogged up and with the steam. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of how I see. So it's very very very blurry,

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Speaker 1: don't see much color, maybe some slight shapes, but everything's

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Speaker 1: foggy and hazy. When it decreased to this level. I

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Speaker 1: remember I was living alone at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: was trying to make a sandwich for myself, and I

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Speaker 1: thought the easiest thing was going to be peanut butter jelly.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, I could find the bread.

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Speaker 1: It's already sliced up. I just pulled the slices out,

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Speaker 1: and I would just find the peanut butter by smell,

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Speaker 1: find the jelly by smell, and then use a butter

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Speaker 1: knife to spread the peanut butter and the jelly on

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Speaker 1: the two slices of bread. But I think I was

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Speaker 1: in a very precarious mental state at that time, already

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Speaker 1: and it's not that the sandwich has to be perfect

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Speaker 1: to be edible and good. But I noticed that when

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Speaker 1: I put the jelly on the slice of bread and

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Speaker 1: all of the jelly got all over the counter. It

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Speaker 1: dripped down my arm when I tried to line the

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Speaker 1: two slices of bread together, Like, the sandwich seemed not perfect.

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Speaker 1: It was growing up to I'm very much a perfectionist,

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Speaker 1: and I still sort of am. So I think just

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Speaker 1: not being able to make a perfect PBJ sandwich at

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Speaker 1: that time was kind of like the straw that broke

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Speaker 1: the camel's back. And I remember being very frustrated myself,

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Speaker 1: throwing that sandwich away and just telling myself, I don't

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Speaker 1: think I'll be able to ever cook again. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how I'll be independent again. You know, that's a

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Speaker 1: moment that stands out in my head, but I've had

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Speaker 1: many of similar moments like that. Yeah, it strikes me

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Speaker 1: that in the face of protracted vision deterioration. You know,

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Speaker 1: the obvious upside is that it's giving you time to

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Speaker 1: adapt to your new world and find new habits and

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Speaker 1: restructure your life. But on the other hand, there is

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Speaker 1: this tortuous aspect that you described, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're clearly a highly motivated and adaptive person, adaptable person,

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Speaker 1: and at every step you're saying, Okay, I got this,

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Speaker 1: I got this, folks, I can I can work at

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Speaker 1: this level. And then you're taunted by the fact that

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Speaker 1: it just keeps getting worse. And so I imagine, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you just kind of want to rip off the band

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Speaker 1: aid at a certain point and know what the end

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Speaker 1: outcome is. Yeah. I'm always the kind of person too

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Speaker 1: that would rather know the bad news than not know.

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Speaker 1: So it's always so much more anxiety of not knowing,

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Speaker 1: like oh, will my vision get worse or will I

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Speaker 1: be able to get you know exactly? So where do

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Speaker 1: you go from the peanut butter and jelly sandwich moment?

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Speaker 1: I allowed myself for however long I needed to feel

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Speaker 1: bad about not being able to make a peanut butter

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Speaker 1: jelly sandwich, and then slowly I think I just thought

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Speaker 1: more about Okay, well I didn't get it right that time,

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Speaker 1: but when I'm in a better headspace, so let me

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Speaker 1: try again. And then I would notice I could incrementally

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Speaker 1: improve at little things in the kitchen. I noticed that

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Speaker 1: as days went by and weeks went by and I

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Speaker 1: would attempt a little bit more things in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: to try to just feed myself. I would be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: today I was able to cut an orange and eat

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Speaker 1: an orange. And then maybe the next day I was

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Speaker 1: able to scramble an egg. Maybe some of it was burnt,

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Speaker 1: but I was still able to do an egg. And

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Speaker 1: then then week after that, I was able to scramble

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Speaker 1: an egg that wasn't burnt. And then looking back, I

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Speaker 1: would notice my progress and the steps forward that I

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Speaker 1: was taking. So I had to tell myself like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well I couldn't do this a week ago, or a

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Speaker 1: month ago or six months ago. And then when you

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Speaker 1: realize that you're making progress, I think it helps build confidence,

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Speaker 1: and then that confidence gives you the courage to keep

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Speaker 1: trying bigger and better things and putting yourself to the

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Speaker 1: challenge and realizing that even if you fail the first

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Speaker 1: time or make a mistake, you learn from that and

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Speaker 1: you reassess and you try again. Yeah, you know, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the victory you felt it at being able to

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Speaker 1: peel an orange, and I'm wondering if you can tell

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Speaker 1: me more about how it is you had to change

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Speaker 1: your relationship with cooking. You know, at the time it

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Speaker 1: was simply a hobby of yours, but what was involved

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Speaker 1: in relearning how to cook and navigate the kitchen safely.

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Speaker 1: It remained a hobby of mine for quite a long time,

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Speaker 1: and I was losing my vision in this at the

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Speaker 1: same time when I was voraciously teaching myself how to

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Speaker 1: cook and reading all sorts of cookbooks and experimenting in

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Speaker 1: the kitchen. So each time I would lose a little

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Speaker 1: bit more vision and it would decrease to like some

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Speaker 1: new level. I would have to teach myself again how

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Speaker 1: to accomplish the same things in the kitchen. And like

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Speaker 1: I said, it was kind of a matter of taking

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Speaker 1: these small steps and celebrating these small victories. But eventually

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Speaker 1: I would just focus on being able to do things

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Speaker 1: with my remaining four senses. And that actually taught me

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Speaker 1: that cooking is much more of a multisensory or deal

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Speaker 1: than we often expect. Like you can definitely get buy

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen with your sense of touch and your

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Speaker 1: sense of smell and your sense of taste. Those things

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Speaker 1: I would say are the most important in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: And yes, it would help visually probably to tell if

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Speaker 1: something is cooked in a pan. But over the years,

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Speaker 1: with a lot of experience, I'm able to tell if

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Speaker 1: something is cooked by the texture and how it feels

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Speaker 1: at the end of my cooking utensil, or by the

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Speaker 1: smell of like garlic, you can tell if it's raw,

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Speaker 1: or if it's fragrant, or if it's burnt. So just

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Speaker 1: learning over time to rely on my remaining four senses

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Speaker 1: much more so than my sense of vision, was really

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Speaker 1: how I got back into the kitchen and taught myself

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Speaker 1: how to cook a lot of the dishes that I'd

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Speaker 1: cooked before. And I actually think with my sense of

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Speaker 1: sight out of the picture, I became much more of

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Speaker 1: a nuanced cook in the kitchen, and I would pay

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Speaker 1: much more attention to the small changes that a seasoning

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Speaker 1: would make in a dish, and I'd pay much more

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Speaker 1: attention to how things taste in your mouth when it

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Speaker 1: comes to temperature and texture. And so I think that

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Speaker 1: allowed me to focus more on those aspects of food,

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Speaker 1: which helped me in some way become a better cook.

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Speaker 1: So you end up writing a blog about your experiences

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen at a website you create, which is

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Speaker 1: called the blindcook dot com, and somewhat unexpectedly, the casting

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Speaker 1: crew of this reality TV show, Master Chef, catches wind

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Speaker 1: of your blog and ends up reaching out to you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was a strange one at first because I didn't

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Speaker 1: believe it. And I remember I received an email through

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Speaker 1: the contact form and they said, Hi, I'm the casting

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Speaker 1: producer for a show called Master Chef. It's with Gordon Ramsey.

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Speaker 1: It's on Fox. We wanted to see if you would

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Speaker 1: like to audition. And I asked my husband and I

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Speaker 1: was like, Hey, isn't this name familiar, Gordon Ramsey, And

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Speaker 1: John's like, yeah, that's the chef that's from the UK

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Speaker 1: that's on like Hell's Kitchen and all that stuff, and

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Speaker 1: he's always known for cursing at people blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: And then he was like, Oh, if that's legitimate, you

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Speaker 1: should totally go an audition for the show. But we

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Speaker 1: were like, is this for real. So at the time too,

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Speaker 1: I was very anonymous, Like I'm naturally an introvert and

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Speaker 1: you know, pretty private person. So my blog had no

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Speaker 1: pictures of me, did not have my real name on there.

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Speaker 1: I kept it very anonymous so that if you went

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Speaker 1: to that blog you would never know who it was,

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Speaker 1: and they reach out just wondering if I was a

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Speaker 1: real person, because you know, there were no photos of me.

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Speaker 1: There was nothing about my bio really on there except

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Speaker 1: I just wrote recipes and what it was like to

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Speaker 1: be as someone who's visually impaired. And so I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I will come audition, and you know, I went to

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Speaker 1: the open casting call in auditions in Austin, and when

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Speaker 1: the producers were traveling around the country trying to look

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Speaker 1: for season three cast, and then the rest was kind

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Speaker 1: of history. Well, it's not going to be his tree

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Speaker 1: right now. I want to hear all. I want to

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Speaker 1: hear all about your experience on Master Chef. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I personally remember seeing you walking out on a set

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Speaker 1: to make your first dish as a competitor in a

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Speaker 1: kitchen that was largely unfamiliar to you and that you're

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Speaker 1: not able to see. And on top of all that,

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Speaker 1: there's the added pressure of making a dish that's going

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Speaker 1: to be judged by three of the most famous chefs

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Speaker 1: in the world. What was that, like, Christine, Like what?

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that mounting pressure. There was definitely a

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Speaker 1: lot of pressure. It was nerve wracking, I mean I

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Speaker 1: was in a space that, you know, in a big warehouse,

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Speaker 1: with a lot of people I'd never met before, all

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Speaker 1: of the other contestants. I've never been familiar with what

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Speaker 1: the entertainment world or television world was like, so I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what to expect with all these lights,

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Speaker 1: these directors, all of these like cameras rolling on dollies. Course,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it I couldn't even see, so all

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Speaker 1: I could hear was just a lot of noise around me.

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Speaker 1: So it was not only stressful knowing that I would

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Speaker 1: have to cook a dish for these judges to taste,

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Speaker 1: but stressful because I'm in a foreign environment as someone

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Speaker 1: who's visual impaired and has no idea what's going on

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Speaker 1: around me except with the context clues of what I hear,

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Speaker 1: what I smell. Wow. Well, I mean, things obviously went

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Speaker 1: very well for you after that first dish. You kept

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Speaker 1: advancing through the rounds, and such a poignant moment as

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Speaker 1: when Gordon Ramsay said your apple pie looked stunning and

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Speaker 1: of course tasted amazing and delicious. He was just really

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Speaker 1: blown at the fact that I totally thought I fed

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Speaker 1: him a pile of rubbish, which is now the running joke.

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Speaker 1: So at my restaurants, my apple pie that served there

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Speaker 1: as a dessert is called the rubbish apple pie because

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Speaker 1: when he asked me, I'm like, I think it looks

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Speaker 1: like a pile of rubbish. And I only use that

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Speaker 1: word too, because in my head I was like so

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Speaker 1: nervous and I really wanted to say looks like a

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Speaker 1: pile of shit. But then I was like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: on television. I can't use that word. So I'm like, naturally,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, he must use the word rubbish because

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Speaker 1: he's from the He's from the UK. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it must look like rub pile of rubbish, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he he told me. He was like, no, it definitely doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It looks great. The crust is golden and flaky, and

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Speaker 1: and then he scraped a knife or a fork on

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Speaker 1: top of it to let me hear that it actually

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Speaker 1: baked to the correct flakiness level. And then he cut

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Speaker 1: out a slice of pie that I guess held together

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Speaker 1: and then taste it and said it tasted good. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back in a moment with a slight change of plans,

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Speaker 1: when we'll hear more from Christine about her experience on

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Speaker 1: Master Chef. There was this one moment when you were

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Speaker 1: on Master Chef that really affected me where you said

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Speaker 1: you felt your vision impairment was affecting p Full's ability

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Speaker 1: to focus on what mattered most, which was your cooking skills.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want people to think that what I was

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Speaker 1: doing was so great or even better because it was

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Speaker 1: someone that's visual impaired. I wanted to compete on the

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Speaker 1: same level and be judged at the same level as

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Speaker 1: everybody else. While yes, maybe it's going to be harder

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Speaker 1: for me to do things because I'm visually impaired, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't want that to be my quote unquote handicap.

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Speaker 1: I wanted people to focus more and judge me and

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Speaker 1: give me true constructive criticism based on my merits in

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Speaker 1: the food I was putting up to be judged. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and did you feel that by the end of the

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Speaker 1: process that was happening for you? I do. I mean

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Speaker 1: I it wasn't easy, so coming into it, they had

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Speaker 1: to adapt my particular cooking stations so that I could

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Speaker 1: use it as a cook who's visually impaired. So I

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Speaker 1: needed some assist since in certain ways or adaptations that

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Speaker 1: made sense. But it's not like I would ask for

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Speaker 1: more time for my challenge or expect like a different ingredient,

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Speaker 1: or expect special rules to be made for me. So

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, yes, I did feel that insecurity that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure how I would be treated because I'm

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Speaker 1: sure a lot of people had never expected someone who

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Speaker 1: was visual impaired to be able to cook. And I

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Speaker 1: remember some people asking me like, well, how are you

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Speaker 1: going to cook? Like are you going to stand on

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Speaker 1: the side and call out your recipe and have your

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Speaker 1: husband My husband John was there at the time to

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Speaker 1: assist me as my sided guide. They were wondering if

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Speaker 1: he would do all the cutting and I would just

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Speaker 1: be on the sidelines, like telling him what to do.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, in my head, i was dump out

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, I'm going to use the knife

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Speaker 1: of course, like that would be weird. So there was

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Speaker 1: those kinds of questions from people who I think were

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Speaker 1: completely surprised to see someone who's visual impaired, or they

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Speaker 1: thought that I was like gimmick that was brought on

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Speaker 1: by the producers for just for the ratings. And I

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Speaker 1: was also insecure because still in the back of my head.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I do have a disability that will

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Speaker 1: that will make it harder for me to compete with

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Speaker 1: everyone else who's sided. But I think as the competition

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Speaker 1: went on, I started understanding what my strengths were, and

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Speaker 1: I started playing to those strengths, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: what helped me go all the way to the end.

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Speaker 1: And what did you feel those strengths were. Well, the

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Speaker 1: strength was the fact that I couldn't see, I paid

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Speaker 1: much less attention to or and was not distracted by

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Speaker 1: what the other contestants were doing. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: what happened to some of us at sometimes and even

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Speaker 1: I've done it in some of the early challenges in

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Speaker 1: my season was I would hear like, oh, someone else,

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Speaker 1: so and so next to me is using really fancy

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Speaker 1: ingredients or using a very fancy cooking technique, and then

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Speaker 1: I would you know, then you would think to yourself, Oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe what I'm doing is not good enough, it's not

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Speaker 1: fancy enough, it's too pedestrian. And then we would change

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Speaker 1: our dish that we plan to make halfway through, and

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Speaker 1: then by then you only have thirty minutes left to

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Speaker 1: achieve your new dish. And then at the end you

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Speaker 1: can't finish it, and then you serve up only part

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Speaker 1: of a plate. And for me, I think what I

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Speaker 1: realized was that these judges have tasted some of the

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Speaker 1: best foods in the world. There's nothing I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be like that's probably going to blow their minds.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm gonna do is I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: cook something that I feel like eating that I would

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Speaker 1: be happy to eat myself or serve my friends and

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Speaker 1: my family, and I wouldn't worry about what other people

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Speaker 1: are cooking. I'm just gonna compete against myself. And as

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Speaker 1: long as I went into that kitchen and I was

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Speaker 1: a better cook that day than I was the day before,

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Speaker 1: then that's really all I could ask of myself. And

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Speaker 1: so I started concentrating and focusing only on what I

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Speaker 1: was doing and not paying attention to what the other

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Speaker 1: contestants were doing. And I think that allowed me to

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Speaker 1: stay more focused and know what I was going to

432
00:24:12,316 --> 00:24:15,036
Speaker 1: cook and follow that course and that plan of action,

433
00:24:15,196 --> 00:24:17,316
Speaker 1: and then I was able to finish my dishes on

434
00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:20,876
Speaker 1: time and follow through. Okay, so I would I would

435
00:24:20,916 --> 00:24:25,356
Speaker 1: love to revisit an incredibly joyful moment obviously for you,

436
00:24:25,516 --> 00:24:27,756
Speaker 1: but for so many people around the world who are

437
00:24:27,756 --> 00:24:30,916
Speaker 1: celebrating along with you. What was it like to win

438
00:24:31,276 --> 00:24:51,676
Speaker 1: Master Chef? The winner of Master Chef, congratulations, Christine. Yeah,

439
00:24:51,716 --> 00:24:54,156
Speaker 1: my first thought was, thank God, this thing is over.

440
00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:58,276
Speaker 1: It actually took me like two days for it to

441
00:24:58,356 --> 00:25:00,356
Speaker 1: really sink in. I think it was the biggest shock

442
00:25:00,396 --> 00:25:03,996
Speaker 1: I'd experience in my life. And I remember that first

443
00:25:04,076 --> 00:25:06,676
Speaker 1: night after winning, I could not sleep at all, and

444
00:25:06,716 --> 00:25:09,516
Speaker 1: then it didn't really sink in that I'd won the

445
00:25:09,556 --> 00:25:13,756
Speaker 1: whole thing until about forty eight hours later. I'm wondering

446
00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:16,076
Speaker 1: if there was anyone in particular that you heard from

447
00:25:16,076 --> 00:25:18,916
Speaker 1: after your win that had a particular impact on you.

448
00:25:21,236 --> 00:25:22,996
Speaker 1: There are a lot of people that have reached out

449
00:25:23,036 --> 00:25:26,636
Speaker 1: over the years, and I was just flooded with different

450
00:25:26,676 --> 00:25:29,836
Speaker 1: stories about people recounting their own struggles, whether it was

451
00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:33,396
Speaker 1: with vision loss or any sort of disability, whether it's

452
00:25:33,436 --> 00:25:37,756
Speaker 1: mental or physical, and all of these people just came

453
00:25:37,916 --> 00:25:41,436
Speaker 1: with their shortcomings to me and being very honest about

454
00:25:41,476 --> 00:25:46,876
Speaker 1: how seeing my story helped them try and turn their

455
00:25:46,916 --> 00:25:49,396
Speaker 1: lives around or pick themselves up. And you know, some

456
00:25:49,476 --> 00:25:52,676
Speaker 1: things in particular, all the way from like just young

457
00:25:52,756 --> 00:25:55,116
Speaker 1: children saying that I gave them the courage to try

458
00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:58,916
Speaker 1: out for the soccer team. To someone a woman who

459
00:25:58,996 --> 00:26:01,876
Speaker 1: said that she had been battling depression for many months

460
00:26:01,876 --> 00:26:03,476
Speaker 1: and she couldn't get out of bed, and so she

461
00:26:03,516 --> 00:26:06,676
Speaker 1: was flipping through the TV and then saw me on

462
00:26:06,756 --> 00:26:09,316
Speaker 1: Master Chef and then started following it and watch the

463
00:26:09,356 --> 00:26:14,516
Speaker 1: whole season. And then after that she stopped thinking about

464
00:26:14,636 --> 00:26:17,636
Speaker 1: suicide and left her bed and started cooking again for

465
00:26:17,676 --> 00:26:23,116
Speaker 1: her family. So those sorts of stories, like, they're so moving,

466
00:26:23,196 --> 00:26:25,796
Speaker 1: and I still can't fathom the impact that I've been

467
00:26:25,836 --> 00:26:28,476
Speaker 1: able to have on so many people. But I think,

468
00:26:28,516 --> 00:26:31,756
Speaker 1: if anything, I remember on the show, my friend Scott,

469
00:26:31,756 --> 00:26:33,596
Speaker 1: who was one of the contestants, he was like, you

470
00:26:33,796 --> 00:26:36,476
Speaker 1: realize that after the show, even if you don't win,

471
00:26:37,156 --> 00:26:39,716
Speaker 1: you're so much bigger than what this show is. And

472
00:26:39,756 --> 00:26:41,676
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, shut up, Scott. Like I was like,

473
00:26:41,676 --> 00:26:42,996
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. You know, we

474
00:26:43,036 --> 00:26:44,716
Speaker 1: were like getting into the casting van. I was like,

475
00:26:44,796 --> 00:26:48,356
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's weird. And even then, like I

476
00:26:48,356 --> 00:26:51,236
Speaker 1: had no idea like the impact my story would have

477
00:26:51,316 --> 00:26:54,396
Speaker 1: on people. And years later, now it's been ten years,

478
00:26:54,436 --> 00:26:57,196
Speaker 1: and I still hear people watching the season for the

479
00:26:57,236 --> 00:27:00,996
Speaker 1: first time, and my story helping them through whatever it

480
00:27:01,036 --> 00:27:03,996
Speaker 1: is that they're struggling, and knowing that I've been given

481
00:27:03,996 --> 00:27:07,036
Speaker 1: this platform and blessed with this ability to help other

482
00:27:07,076 --> 00:27:10,476
Speaker 1: people just simply by sharing my story or being who

483
00:27:10,556 --> 00:27:12,956
Speaker 1: I am. That is like the biggest gift of all.

484
00:27:14,236 --> 00:27:18,036
Speaker 1: So have you have you internalized what Scott told you? Like,

485
00:27:18,116 --> 00:27:20,836
Speaker 1: do you believe him now? I sort of do, but

486
00:27:20,876 --> 00:27:23,476
Speaker 1: it's still very strange, But yes, I do. I had

487
00:27:23,516 --> 00:27:26,916
Speaker 1: no idea like when I yeah, it is still weird

488
00:27:26,956 --> 00:27:28,756
Speaker 1: to me when I think back, and I guess I

489
00:27:28,796 --> 00:27:31,796
Speaker 1: just didn't have that outside perspective because I'm I just

490
00:27:31,836 --> 00:27:33,756
Speaker 1: feel like I'm just me, you know, and I'm just

491
00:27:33,796 --> 00:27:36,676
Speaker 1: like Lottie do I'm just Christine? Like, yeah, I'm blind,

492
00:27:36,716 --> 00:27:38,716
Speaker 1: but I just do whatever I do. Yeah, I mean,

493
00:27:38,756 --> 00:27:43,756
Speaker 1: I appreciate your humility. But it's one thing to say

494
00:27:43,836 --> 00:27:46,876
Speaker 1: in the face of adversity that you have big dreams, right,

495
00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:52,996
Speaker 1: It's another thing to put in the hundreds of hours

496
00:27:52,996 --> 00:27:58,596
Speaker 1: of work to actually achieve those dreams, to relearn fundamental

497
00:27:58,636 --> 00:28:01,356
Speaker 1: things that you had taken for granted in the early

498
00:28:01,396 --> 00:28:05,916
Speaker 1: part of your life. That translation is what you know.

499
00:28:05,956 --> 00:28:10,276
Speaker 1: I personally find so impressive about your story and I

500
00:28:10,316 --> 00:28:12,916
Speaker 1: don't want it to be lost. Just how challenging it

501
00:28:12,996 --> 00:28:16,876
Speaker 1: is to get back into a kitchen or to adapt

502
00:28:16,876 --> 00:28:18,836
Speaker 1: to life in a kitchen where you're losing your vision

503
00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:22,556
Speaker 1: and you are in the presence of danger, and you

504
00:28:22,596 --> 00:28:24,916
Speaker 1: are brave enough to learn how to use knives and

505
00:28:25,436 --> 00:28:30,196
Speaker 1: heat on a stove and and beyond that achieve artistry,

506
00:28:30,356 --> 00:28:34,556
Speaker 1: right like mastery at the highest levels. I truly believe

507
00:28:34,636 --> 00:28:37,116
Speaker 1: when people tell me these things like what you just said, maya,

508
00:28:37,196 --> 00:28:41,836
Speaker 1: I'm like, honestly, I feel like any person that would

509
00:28:41,836 --> 00:28:44,156
Speaker 1: be put in my position will figure out a way,

510
00:28:44,236 --> 00:28:46,316
Speaker 1: and you could do the same exact thing that I've

511
00:28:46,356 --> 00:28:48,516
Speaker 1: accomplished if you are put in that same position. And

512
00:28:48,676 --> 00:28:54,076
Speaker 1: because not true, sorry, I used to believe that. I

513
00:28:54,556 --> 00:28:56,996
Speaker 1: think people are much more resilient than they give themselves

514
00:28:57,036 --> 00:28:58,996
Speaker 1: credit for. And I'm for one of that, because I

515
00:28:59,076 --> 00:29:01,036
Speaker 1: used to think, I was like, there's no way I can,

516
00:29:01,796 --> 00:29:06,556
Speaker 1: like I find these goals insurmountable and lo and behold

517
00:29:06,596 --> 00:29:08,996
Speaker 1: like day by day, like you just figure out a way,

518
00:29:09,116 --> 00:29:11,356
Speaker 1: and then I was able to accomplish things. But I

519
00:29:11,436 --> 00:29:14,836
Speaker 1: don't think like I've accomplished like I think I just

520
00:29:15,036 --> 00:29:17,956
Speaker 1: am I was lucky, and that I was in the

521
00:29:18,036 --> 00:29:20,276
Speaker 1: right place at the right time. And yes, I do

522
00:29:20,436 --> 00:29:24,396
Speaker 1: work hard, I do concur with that, and yes I

523
00:29:24,476 --> 00:29:28,916
Speaker 1: have some talent, but I don't think I'm any more

524
00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:32,316
Speaker 1: special than the next cook, or the next blind person,

525
00:29:32,476 --> 00:29:35,836
Speaker 1: or the next whoever next to me. We always look

526
00:29:35,916 --> 00:29:38,676
Speaker 1: to other people and think, oh, they've accomplished something we can,

527
00:29:38,876 --> 00:29:41,436
Speaker 1: But it really comes down to how much do you

528
00:29:41,476 --> 00:29:43,836
Speaker 1: want something and how much you're going to prioritize something.

529
00:29:43,836 --> 00:29:48,076
Speaker 1: And for me, cooking was it was It was something

530
00:29:48,116 --> 00:29:51,276
Speaker 1: I just really really enjoyed and I didn't want to

531
00:29:51,316 --> 00:29:53,276
Speaker 1: give that up because I lost my vision, so I

532
00:29:53,356 --> 00:29:55,236
Speaker 1: knew I had to find a different way to go

533
00:29:55,276 --> 00:29:57,236
Speaker 1: about it. And part of it is cooking as a

534
00:29:57,276 --> 00:29:59,476
Speaker 1: means of survival. Like I lived by myself when I

535
00:29:59,516 --> 00:30:02,076
Speaker 1: was losing my vision, I had to you know, there

536
00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:04,916
Speaker 1: was no such thing as uber eats or deliveries back

537
00:30:04,956 --> 00:30:07,796
Speaker 1: then that you were easily attainable. So I had to

538
00:30:07,796 --> 00:30:10,516
Speaker 1: figure out a way to make food for myself to eat.

539
00:30:10,596 --> 00:30:13,476
Speaker 1: And you know, it was something for me to concentrate

540
00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:15,316
Speaker 1: on and focus on when I was dealing with the

541
00:30:15,396 --> 00:30:18,156
Speaker 1: vision loss, because cooking gave me joy and I didn't

542
00:30:18,156 --> 00:30:20,556
Speaker 1: always want to think about the sad things that were

543
00:30:20,596 --> 00:30:23,956
Speaker 1: happening to me. Yeah, I mean, I do find it

544
00:30:24,196 --> 00:30:29,996
Speaker 1: reassuring and inspiring that initially you were reliably underestimating your

545
00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:33,596
Speaker 1: own resilience, because maybe that means so many of us

546
00:30:33,596 --> 00:30:36,756
Speaker 1: are too. That is what I learned about myself as Hey,

547
00:30:36,236 --> 00:30:40,156
Speaker 1: I am resilient. You're totally right. It's like, I don't

548
00:30:40,196 --> 00:30:42,436
Speaker 1: think people realize that, and it was something I had

549
00:30:42,476 --> 00:30:44,676
Speaker 1: to learn as well, when you realize that you are

550
00:30:44,716 --> 00:30:47,436
Speaker 1: just one blip in this world or in this universe,

551
00:30:47,916 --> 00:30:51,076
Speaker 1: but things will still continue to happen in the world

552
00:30:51,076 --> 00:30:55,556
Speaker 1: around me. So I have the choice of either dropping

553
00:30:55,596 --> 00:30:58,356
Speaker 1: out of society and feeling sorry for myself and not

554
00:30:58,436 --> 00:31:02,316
Speaker 1: contributing to the world, or I have the choice of

555
00:31:02,556 --> 00:31:06,836
Speaker 1: figuring out how can I, in spite of the hand

556
00:31:06,876 --> 00:31:08,676
Speaker 1: that I've was dealt with, or in spite of the

557
00:31:08,756 --> 00:31:13,156
Speaker 1: challenge is that I'm trying to overcome, how can I

558
00:31:13,196 --> 00:31:17,156
Speaker 1: pick myself up and plug myself back into the society

559
00:31:17,236 --> 00:31:20,716
Speaker 1: as it continues. You've said that if you could get

560
00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:25,356
Speaker 1: your vision back, you wouldn't and I'm wondering, well, one,

561
00:31:25,396 --> 00:31:27,676
Speaker 1: if you still feel that way, and if you can

562
00:31:27,716 --> 00:31:31,796
Speaker 1: say say more about that, Okay, Well, if I could

563
00:31:31,796 --> 00:31:34,196
Speaker 1: get my vision back for like five minutes or like

564
00:31:34,276 --> 00:31:37,316
Speaker 1: a day or a week, I totally would because I

565
00:31:37,356 --> 00:31:40,796
Speaker 1: want to know what like four K filming looks like.

566
00:31:40,916 --> 00:31:42,996
Speaker 1: I always hear you know, I'm still stuck back and

567
00:31:43,036 --> 00:31:44,996
Speaker 1: like I don't even know when. I don't know what

568
00:31:45,076 --> 00:31:47,636
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande looks like. I don't know what Justin Bieber

569
00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:51,796
Speaker 1: looks like. I do believe that it is a gift

570
00:31:51,836 --> 00:31:54,036
Speaker 1: to be able to see Ariana Grande. I think you

571
00:31:54,036 --> 00:31:58,076
Speaker 1: could pass on Justin Bieber in current form. There's a

572
00:31:58,076 --> 00:32:01,036
Speaker 1: lot of just things that I've happened or cars nowadays.

573
00:32:01,076 --> 00:32:03,516
Speaker 1: I don't know what the Tesla looks like. They're just

574
00:32:03,596 --> 00:32:05,996
Speaker 1: things that all of my friends talk about that I feel.

575
00:32:06,436 --> 00:32:08,436
Speaker 1: I'm just at a loss. I don't really I can't

576
00:32:08,476 --> 00:32:11,316
Speaker 1: fully experience and these conversations. So I definitely want to

577
00:32:11,316 --> 00:32:13,796
Speaker 1: see what my friends and my family look like today.

578
00:32:14,036 --> 00:32:15,996
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want to know what I look like

579
00:32:16,036 --> 00:32:20,236
Speaker 1: because it's been a long time. Look great, But I

580
00:32:20,396 --> 00:32:25,516
Speaker 1: think it would be really weird for me to completely

581
00:32:25,676 --> 00:32:28,836
Speaker 1: gain my vision back permanently because I'm so used to

582
00:32:28,876 --> 00:32:33,116
Speaker 1: living the life that I have now, and I feel

583
00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:36,436
Speaker 1: like doing some of the things that I do without

584
00:32:36,596 --> 00:32:39,956
Speaker 1: vision it seems kind of more fun or more accomplish

585
00:32:40,036 --> 00:32:42,196
Speaker 1: in a way that I think it would just be

586
00:32:42,276 --> 00:32:45,356
Speaker 1: weird to have my vision back. I want to dig

587
00:32:45,396 --> 00:32:50,756
Speaker 1: into your relationship with independence today because my personal perspective

588
00:32:51,236 --> 00:32:55,036
Speaker 1: kind of crushing the independence game. Christine. Also, it was

589
00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:57,356
Speaker 1: a huge part of your identity during a very formative

590
00:32:57,396 --> 00:33:00,956
Speaker 1: moment in your life, and so what role does independence

591
00:33:00,956 --> 00:33:05,396
Speaker 1: play in constructing your self identity today? Before? If you

592
00:33:05,436 --> 00:33:08,716
Speaker 1: were to ask me this when I was maybe in

593
00:33:08,796 --> 00:33:11,516
Speaker 1: my teenage years or my early twenties, I would say

594
00:33:11,556 --> 00:33:15,236
Speaker 1: independence is not depending on other people and being able

595
00:33:15,236 --> 00:33:19,916
Speaker 1: to do everything yourself and rely solely upon yourself. I

596
00:33:19,996 --> 00:33:22,716
Speaker 1: think if you ask me now, what does independence mean,

597
00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:27,596
Speaker 1: it's changed for me because I'm not going to be

598
00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:30,516
Speaker 1: unrealistic and deny the fact that I cannot drive myself

599
00:33:30,516 --> 00:33:33,076
Speaker 1: somewhere until you know, we're close to having like self

600
00:33:33,156 --> 00:33:37,756
Speaker 1: driving cars, but until then, I can't drive myself somewhere independently.

601
00:33:37,956 --> 00:33:43,276
Speaker 1: So realistically, I don't feel like I'm independent in that way,

602
00:33:43,516 --> 00:33:47,996
Speaker 1: but I'm independent in the fact that I'm living the

603
00:33:48,036 --> 00:33:50,716
Speaker 1: life that I want to live when I want to

604
00:33:50,716 --> 00:33:53,036
Speaker 1: ask for help, I'm able to ask for help and

605
00:33:53,356 --> 00:33:57,156
Speaker 1: I do it willingly, and then also knowing when I

606
00:33:57,196 --> 00:33:59,636
Speaker 1: don't need help, and doing things on my own, even

607
00:33:59,636 --> 00:34:02,036
Speaker 1: if it's a struggle. Like sometimes my husband watches me,

608
00:34:02,116 --> 00:34:05,156
Speaker 1: like try to open a package or do something, and

609
00:34:05,196 --> 00:34:06,596
Speaker 1: he's just like, why don't you just let me do

610
00:34:06,596 --> 00:34:08,516
Speaker 1: that for you, because he gets frustrated, like I take

611
00:34:08,556 --> 00:34:10,796
Speaker 1: ten minutes. But then sometimes I'm like, no, I just

612
00:34:10,836 --> 00:34:13,516
Speaker 1: want to do this on my own, and so I

613
00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:16,396
Speaker 1: will do it because I'm stubborn like that. And that's

614
00:34:16,476 --> 00:34:19,876
Speaker 1: my definition of independence is asking for help when you

615
00:34:19,956 --> 00:34:21,516
Speaker 1: want it or feel like you need it, but then

616
00:34:21,556 --> 00:34:24,156
Speaker 1: also knowing when you want to do things on your own,

617
00:34:24,196 --> 00:34:47,956
Speaker 1: and so basically living the life that you want. Hey,

618
00:34:47,956 --> 00:34:50,596
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. Join me next week when we have

619
00:34:50,636 --> 00:34:54,236
Speaker 1: a returning guest, Scott. We first heard from him on

620
00:34:54,276 --> 00:34:58,076
Speaker 1: a Slight Change episode called The Life Changing Diagnosis. At

621
00:34:58,076 --> 00:34:59,996
Speaker 1: the time, he was in the middle of treatment for

622
00:35:00,036 --> 00:35:04,556
Speaker 1: stage four bone cancer. Today, he successfully completed treatment and

623
00:35:04,716 --> 00:35:07,956
Speaker 1: is adapting to life back at home in California. When

624
00:35:07,956 --> 00:35:12,116
Speaker 1: you're given the command by a very serious and well

625
00:35:12,116 --> 00:35:14,996
Speaker 1: trained doctor that here's what you must do. It's obvious

626
00:35:15,036 --> 00:35:18,756
Speaker 1: that you heed that call. But now now nobody's really

627
00:35:18,796 --> 00:35:22,996
Speaker 1: telling you how you should be spending your time, how

628
00:35:23,036 --> 00:35:27,836
Speaker 1: to relish and enjoy what you did fight for, and

629
00:35:29,316 --> 00:35:33,436
Speaker 1: that is like, that is a more challenging puzzle. Scott's

630
00:35:33,436 --> 00:35:35,836
Speaker 1: insights really blew me away, and I can't wait for

631
00:35:35,876 --> 00:35:38,396
Speaker 1: you to hear his update. Be sure to go back

632
00:35:38,436 --> 00:35:40,516
Speaker 1: to the Slight Change of Plans feed and listen to

633
00:35:40,556 --> 00:35:44,876
Speaker 1: Scott's previous episode, The Life Changing Diagnosis. See you next week.

634
00:35:54,636 --> 00:35:57,516
Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is created written an executive

635
00:35:57,556 --> 00:36:01,316
Speaker 1: produce by me Maya Shunker. The Slight Change family includes

636
00:36:01,396 --> 00:36:05,196
Speaker 1: Tyler Greene, our senior producer, Jen Guera, our senior editor,

637
00:36:05,516 --> 00:36:09,636
Speaker 1: Ben Holliday, our sound engineer, Emily Rosteck our producer, and

638
00:36:09,756 --> 00:36:13,796
Speaker 1: Neil LaBelle our executive producer. Louise Scara wrote our theme

639
00:36:13,876 --> 00:36:17,516
Speaker 1: song and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A Slight

640
00:36:17,596 --> 00:36:20,356
Speaker 1: Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries. So

641
00:36:20,516 --> 00:36:24,996
Speaker 1: big thanks to everyone there, including Malcolm Gladwell, Jacob Weisberg, Lee,

642
00:36:24,996 --> 00:36:29,516
Speaker 1: Tamlat and Heather Fame, and of course a very special

643
00:36:29,556 --> 00:36:32,836
Speaker 1: thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow a slight change

644
00:36:32,836 --> 00:36:36,516
Speaker 1: of plans on Instagram at doctor Maya Schunker see you

645
00:36:36,556 --> 00:36:46,916
Speaker 1: next week. I've wondered to Christine, what parts of your

646
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Speaker 1: identity do you feel have stayed the same over the years,

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Speaker 1: and what parts have maybe changed? I like this question

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Speaker 1: things that I think I've stayed the same. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm still the same goofball. I still have the same

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Speaker 1: sense of humor. I remember I joked with all of

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Speaker 1: the producers or master Shaw, I'm like, I said so

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Speaker 1: many witty things and you cut it all out like

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Speaker 1: in post production. They were like, yeah, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have time for everything. Yeah, don't silence my

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Speaker 1: humor people. I should let you know that every time

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Speaker 1: my editor Jen tries to cut a joke from one

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Speaker 1: of my interviews, I feel emotionally wounded and deeply deeply offended.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, do you not understand that this podcast is

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Speaker 1: a launching pad for my future career in comedy? Okay,