WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The Sad, Strange Tale of Margaret Schilling

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. Here's job, there's Jerry.

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<v Speaker 1>Dave's not here, but we're thinking of him. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>short stuff. Let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I start this with an anecdote?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So, in the mid nineteen nineties, a young, scrappy, young

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<v Speaker 2>student at Ohio University named Emily Sinobocan did her senior

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<v Speaker 2>telecommunications film project on what was called at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what they call it at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually it had a lot of names over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>but the Athens Lunatic Asylum or the Athens Hospital for

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<v Speaker 2>the Insane. Oh wow, right there in Athens, Ohio, where

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<v Speaker 2>my wife went to college. And she said, I tried

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<v Speaker 2>to do a spooky sort of ghosty thing and it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't turn out so great. But that was her senior project.

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<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. I'd love to see that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would do.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, oh, you haven't.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't know if she still has that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I should ask.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, she does, and she's willing to let me see it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd love to It's probably like beta tape or something

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<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, you said this hospital, the State hospital, had names,

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<v Speaker 1>many names over the years. It started out as the

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<v Speaker 1>Athens Lunatic Asylum when it was opened in eighteen seventy

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<v Speaker 1>four and it ran all the way to nineteen ninety three.

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<v Speaker 1>And when it opened, it was one of those giant, Gothic,

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<v Speaker 1>amazing nineteenth century mental hospitals. And I didn't know this,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, the US is just populated with these

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<v Speaker 1>and they're starting to tear them down more and more.

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<v Speaker 1>But there was a guy who basically came up with

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<v Speaker 1>the blueprint for these things. His name was doctor Thomas

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<v Speaker 1>Story Kirkbride, and he basically said, hey, you know how

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<v Speaker 1>we keep the mentally ill chained in basements in jails.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we should not do that. We should do the opposite.

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<v Speaker 1>We should build huge hospitals on big, rambling, beautiful grounds

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<v Speaker 1>with lots of sunlight and open air, and we'll at

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<v Speaker 1>the moral treatment of the insane. That's really what we

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<v Speaker 1>should get behind. And he wrote a book called on

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<v Speaker 1>the Construction, Organization, and General Arrangements of Hospitals for the Insane,

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<v Speaker 1>And he literally wrote the book I and changed everything.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you see those amazing old institutes or institutions,

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<v Speaker 1>I should say, they all basically follow this pattern that

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Thomas Kirkbride came up with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we've talked about him on another episode for sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 2>But Emily said that there were and I couldn't find

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<v Speaker 2>pictures of this online. The buildings themselves, this campus is

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<v Speaker 2>amazing looking, this beautiful Victorian buildings. But Emily said that

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<v Speaker 2>there were ponds on the campus that were in the

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<v Speaker 2>shape of playing card suits, and that's the one thing

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<v Speaker 2>she remembers, and really I could Yeah, I couldn't find

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<v Speaker 2>those anywhere, but I imagine she didn't imagine those.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, that's a weird thing to just suddenly make up

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, get wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>And now that I'm looking at the date, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>this it might have been there, just had been closed

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<v Speaker 2>when she did this. They closed in ninety three. But

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<v Speaker 2>she called it the Ridges, as I remember now because

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<v Speaker 2>that's what it's called now. Yeah, because Ohio University has

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<v Speaker 2>bought that area and now it's part of the school.

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<v Speaker 2>But none of that has to do with our story,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a story of Margaret Shilling, who was a

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<v Speaker 2>fifty three year old woman. At the time, not a

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<v Speaker 2>lot was known about her. She obviously had some sort

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<v Speaker 2>of mental illness that led her there sadly but apparently

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<v Speaker 2>some people say she was about an hour north of there,

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<v Speaker 2>had a husband and a son. But what we do

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<v Speaker 2>know is that she was a good patient and well trusted,

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<v Speaker 2>so much so that she was just sort of allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to roam freely about the grounds and no one really

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<v Speaker 2>worried about her too much.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we should say that, like this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>those stories that because little of her was known, but

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<v Speaker 1>her story is so fantastic, lazy have felt totally liberated

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<v Speaker 1>to basically add little details or assume little details or

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<v Speaker 1>something like that. So there's a there's a definite like

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<v Speaker 1>silhouette to this story is we'll see that does seem

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<v Speaker 1>to like hold shape, but it's it's just the little

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<v Speaker 1>details you have to kind of take with a grain

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<v Speaker 1>of salt, essentially. Yeah, but yes, apparently the one thing,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things that I have seen in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of places that because she was free to roam

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<v Speaker 1>the grounds, and I don't know if it was just her,

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<v Speaker 1>she was among a special few or something. When she

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<v Speaker 1>didn't show up for breakfast, that didn't raise any alarms. Literally,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't until on December one, nineteen seventy eight, that

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<v Speaker 1>she didn't show up for dinner later that evening that

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<v Speaker 1>it literally raised the alarm because they now realized they

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<v Speaker 1>had a patient missing.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, so they called a code round, which meant

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<v Speaker 2>someone as missing. We need to go search this sprawling,

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<v Speaker 2>enormous campus. I think I saw seven hundred thousand square

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<v Speaker 2>feet in total, and I think that might be a

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<v Speaker 2>good place for a cliffhangy break.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, how much does seven hundred thousand square feet translate

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<v Speaker 1>to an acres?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So where we left off, there was a

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<v Speaker 2>search being conducted for Margaret Shilling. They looked, they thought, everywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>seemingly turned that place upside down. But one of the

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<v Speaker 2>only places they didn't look is the place where she was,

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<v Speaker 2>which was a fourth floor room on campus. Pretty frustrating

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<v Speaker 2>they couldn't find her. My guess is that I think

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<v Speaker 2>parts of this campus had been shut down over the

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<v Speaker 2>years by this time, and it was in one of

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<v Speaker 2>the buildings that was shut down, because everywhere online I

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<v Speaker 2>saw she was in one of those two magnificent towers upfront.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's no way it could have been that from

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<v Speaker 2>the looks of the room and the windows.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, I didn't know how you knew that, but yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you see everywhere. Everybody's like she was in the tower.

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<v Speaker 1>She was in the tower. The tower was unused and

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<v Speaker 1>it was you could only access it through essentially a

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<v Speaker 1>hidden stairway. And that's why they didn't find her. But

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<v Speaker 1>that's odd that they didn't find her if they searched everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, well, they clearly didn't search everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>But they because they couldn't find her. Did you say

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<v Speaker 1>the police were called in? Eventually, no, Okay, So the

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<v Speaker 1>police were called. They start helping to there's like a genuine,

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<v Speaker 1>like bona fide search for Margaret Shilling, and they finally

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<v Speaker 1>just come up empty. And so the police are like,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that you have an escape patient on your hands.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's just call it that. So we can go back

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<v Speaker 1>home because it's cold and over the next few weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>starting from December and into January, Ohio winters can be

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<v Speaker 1>pretty bad, but I get the impression that this was

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<v Speaker 1>not one of the lighter ones, that it was pretty

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<v Speaker 1>pretty rough and over this time, like Margaret Shilling was

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<v Speaker 1>just missing. On January twelfth, nineteen seventy nine, about six

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<v Speaker 1>weeks after she went missing, she was discovered. And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how she was discovered if by accident, I

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<v Speaker 1>saw somewhere that somebody noticed a smell and followed it

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<v Speaker 1>and found her body. But however she was found, she

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<v Speaker 1>was no longer alive. She was dead. She was found

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<v Speaker 1>dead somewhere in a room on that campus.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it was pretty distressing what comes next, because

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<v Speaker 2>she was found unclosed with her clothes beside her, folded

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<v Speaker 2>very neatly as if I guess she had given up

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<v Speaker 2>or something. Who knows. No one can say for sure,

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<v Speaker 2>but they ruled her death of heart failure, even though

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<v Speaker 2>they're not exactly sure. You know, subfreezing temperatures, no food

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<v Speaker 2>and water, so you know you're not going to survive

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<v Speaker 2>for too long. She would be buried by her family.

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<v Speaker 2>But what is really sort of key to this story

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<v Speaker 2>is this stain on the floor of the outline of

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<v Speaker 2>her body that could not be cleaned off.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so if you have a body that decomposes over

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<v Speaker 1>say six weeks, so let's say she died very quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>And even though there were sub freezing temperatures, that room

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<v Speaker 1>that she was found in had a lot of windows

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<v Speaker 1>with that were exposed to bright sunlight. So clearly her

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<v Speaker 1>body was exposed to enough heat from the sun that

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<v Speaker 1>it allowed decomposition to take place, and under any circumstance

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<v Speaker 1>that somebody's going to leave some residue behind them, gross

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<v Speaker 1>as it is after six weeks. The thing is the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that made Margaret Shillings legend grow very quickly in

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<v Speaker 1>addition to her sad story, was that that that that

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<v Speaker 1>remnant of her, that silhouette, that outline that she left

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<v Speaker 1>it would not come clean despite the several efforts by

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<v Speaker 1>the maintenance crew to remove it. And so if you

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<v Speaker 1>have a woman who died mysteriously alone in a mental

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<v Speaker 1>hospital who left a stain behind that won't come clean,

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<v Speaker 1>her legend's going to grow pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And you know, you can look up this picture

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<v Speaker 2>of the stain and it's it's a very clear picture

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<v Speaker 2>of a human body, you know, like any part of

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<v Speaker 2>her skin that made contact with that cement floor made

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<v Speaker 2>an impression, like a literal impression, and it's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just one of those really really creepy things that's

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<v Speaker 2>lived on and you know, as kind of a ghost

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<v Speaker 2>story kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because I mean, like this this was like if

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<v Speaker 1>you a college you remember Chuck, like you just love

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<v Speaker 1>stories like this. Some like remember the ghost that you

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<v Speaker 1>saw in Athens, Georgia in the middle of the road,

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<v Speaker 1>Like when you're in college, it's prime time for that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. There was literally a stain left by

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<v Speaker 1>a woman who died mysteriously on campus there like right there.

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<v Speaker 1>So I can't imagine what that must have done to

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<v Speaker 1>the student body. Just freaked them out on the daily,

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<v Speaker 1>I would guess, But the fact that it wouldn't come clean,

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<v Speaker 1>it was just a mystery forever, Like clearly she had

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<v Speaker 1>cursed this hospital. That was probably the biggest explanation for it.

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<v Speaker 1>But in two thousand and seven, some Ohio University biochemists

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<v Speaker 1>did a study of the stain to figure out exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what was going on, and they came to some pretty

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<v Speaker 1>pretty standard conclusions that still are just fascinating, But it

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<v Speaker 1>seems to have been the attempts to clean it had

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite effect. They actually locked it in place in

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<v Speaker 1>that concrete floor. They used some sort of acid I

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<v Speaker 1>think to clean this off, and it it locked in place.

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<v Speaker 1>The adiposcire, which is known as gravewax, which we've talked

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<v Speaker 1>about before, which comes from the breakdown of fatty acids.

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<v Speaker 1>But this was special at a posts here in that

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<v Speaker 1>the sodium ions in it, in this grave wax interacted

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<v Speaker 1>with the concrete and were replaced by calcium ions from

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<v Speaker 1>the concrete, so it was like unusual grave wax. And

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<v Speaker 1>then when they added these acidic cleaners to clean it off,

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<v Speaker 1>it actually locked it into the concrete, created a white

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<v Speaker 1>silhouette outlined with a darker kind of smudgy, almost water

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<v Speaker 1>color outline of the silhouette, and that, as far as

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<v Speaker 1>we can tell, is what's still in that concrete today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what I'm curious about is if that room. Obviously

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<v Speaker 2>that's closed down, like they use a lot of that

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<v Speaker 2>campus for stuff today as the ridges, but there's no

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<v Speaker 2>way like they let people in there.

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a group called Preservation Works that's dedicated to

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<v Speaker 1>preserving Kirkbride hospitals, Kirkbride style hospitals, and they did a

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<v Speaker 1>tour as recently as twenty eighteen and suggested like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>by keeping this locked away away from the public, it's

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<v Speaker 1>all it's doing is making it seem creepier and weirder

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<v Speaker 1>and scandalous, Like maybe you should come up with a

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<v Speaker 1>respectful way to get the story across and allow the

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<v Speaker 1>public to respectfully, you know, visit it.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that'd be a tough one to pull off,

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<v Speaker 1>for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure about that idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I mean what the alternative is just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>college students breaking in and touching it and dying afterward.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the legend.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, Emily hadn't heard of this one in particular, which

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<v Speaker 2>I thought was interesting because she did say that there

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<v Speaker 2>obviously were all kinds of you know, ghost stories and

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<v Speaker 2>campus stories.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. I mean, like an indelible mark left

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<v Speaker 1>by a decomposed body from a woman who died mysteriously

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<v Speaker 1>and a mental institution. It doesn't get It's almost ready made.

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<v Speaker 1>It's almost like you made a mad libs for a

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<v Speaker 1>ghost story lot, you know. Yeah, uh, you got anything else?

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<v Speaker 2>I got nothing else?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, rip Margaret Shilling. And I think since I said

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<v Speaker 1>that the short stuff is.

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<v Speaker 3>App stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 3>For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 3>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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<v Speaker 1>H