1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. We are 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: going to talk today about something you may have learned 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: about in school that you may have learned about wrongly, 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: and that is Chief Seattle in a very famous oration 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: that he made allegedly in eighteen fifty four. Except except 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: probably not. The reality is a little different from what 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: people are usually taught. Very true, so Chief Seattle really 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: was a real person. He was chief of the Suquamish 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: and other related tribes around the area now known as 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: Seattle through the mid eighteen hundreds when settlers were moving 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: into the area, and what many people remember him for, 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: in addition to the city of Seattle being named after him, 15 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: is a speech that he gave, although many versions of 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: the speech that circulate are absolutely not by him at all. 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: We will talk a little bit more about that and 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: just a bit so for a little bit of background 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: about the Sequamish people. Suquamish, which is an Americanized pronunciation 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: of their name, actually means a place of clear salt water, 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: and that they and other nearby tribes were primarily fishers, hunters, 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: and gatherers at the time before American settlement of that 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: part of the world. They lived in cedar plank long 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: houses in the winter, and then in the rest of 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: the year they would travel around using dugout cedar canoes 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: and stay in temporary camps that were made of structures 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: made from tree sap saplings that were covered with mats 28 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: made of woven cat tail. And they also were really 29 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: well known for making these hard watertight baskets from coiled 30 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: cedar roots, and they could actually use these baskets for cooking. 31 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: They would heat rocks up in the fire and drop 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: them into liquid filled baskets to create a very heated 33 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: water source which they could then drop other things into 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: you and cook them. Yes, this is a tribe that 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: still exists today. It has about nine and fifty members 36 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 1: and about half of those members live on a reservation 37 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: up in the Pacific northwest UM. The most notable famous 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: person from this tribe is Chief Seattle. And that also 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: is an Americanized pronunciation, like many non English names, and 40 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: includes characters and phonemes that don't exist in English. UM 41 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: and an approximation of the actual pronunciation of it is seat, 42 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: and we don't really end words with in that way, 43 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: and so it's sort of gradually became softened to Seattle. 44 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: According to the Sequamish Foundation, the tribe doesn't really object 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: to him being called Seattle, although he did himself have 46 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: some misgivings about the city being named for him at 47 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: various points in his life. Uh. He's sort of worried that, 48 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: because of the importance of names in his culture, that 49 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: having people repeatedly used his name in a context that 50 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: was not about him and kind of a casual, possibly 51 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: dismissive way, might cause problems after he was gone. But 52 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: before his death, reportedly he had come to think of 53 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: it as a mark of honor. Now we don't know 54 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: a whole lot about Seattle's early years because he doesn't 55 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: really appear in the historical record until he's an adult. 56 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: Right there. There are a few official uh and tribal 57 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: records from various points in his life. A lot of 58 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: the earliest part. You have really a lot of different 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: sources that contradict each other. Even when you look at 60 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: tribal sources, some of them contradict each other. Uh. By 61 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: his own account, he was born on Blake Island and 62 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: central Puget Sound, and his mother was named Shulizza. She 63 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: was a Dwamish woman from Green River, and his father 64 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: was shwi Abe from the Suquamish village and Agate Pass. 65 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: So he had a mother who was Duomish and a 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: father who was Squamish, and so his his bloodline sort 67 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: of united those two tribes. Um When he was born, 68 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: it was a time when huge amounts of illness were 69 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: spreading through the Native American population. About thirty percent of 70 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: the population in that area died within eighty years after 71 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: first contact with the white settlers because of introduced diseases, 72 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: and by Seattle's own account, he witnessed the first contact 73 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: between the Pacific Northwest and settlers when George Vancouver reached 74 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: Bainbridge Island in sevent in the h M. S Discovery. 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: Yes Uh Seattle had two important events that led to 76 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: his becoming chief. The first was that he went on 77 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: a vision quest for spirit power as a youth and 78 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: he received thunderbird power. Um thunder and lightning had a 79 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: really strong spiritual significance, and thunder power was said to 80 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: give a person power as a warrior and a speaker. 81 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: There are accounts of addle saying that he had a 82 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: great boom booming voice, and that if he yelled at you, 83 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: the ground would physically tremble, and that when he gave 84 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: speeches he could be heard like half a mile away, 85 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: like there was a lot tied to him this idea 86 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: of voice and speech and very powerful speech. And the 87 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: second other thing that is an important part of the 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: story of him becoming chief is that while defending a 89 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: settlement from raiders traveling down the White River, he had 90 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: warriors chopped down trees just downriver of a particularly dangerous bend, 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: and the incoming raiders canoes crashed and they couldn't get through, 92 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: so their water their riders were spilled into the water. 93 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: And it's fairly easy to defend yourself against people who 94 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: are floundering in the water versus coming at you rapidly 95 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: on boat. Right, the incoming raiders were handily dispatched when 96 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: they came around this like treacherous curve and crashed into 97 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: a tree, which is pretty ingenious. Right. Word spread of 98 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: that he was named to be an important chief, and 99 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: he became known in his leadership as an intelligent and 100 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: formidable leader. There are several sources that say that he 101 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: owned slaves who he either freed after signing treaties with 102 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: the settlers or after the emancipation Proclamation. There sources kind 103 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: of contradict each other on when he's freed the slaves 104 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: that belonged to him, but owning slaves is a pretty 105 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: common practice in many tribes. Often people from the opposing 106 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: tribe would kind of be spoils of war and would 107 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: become the slaves of the conquering tribe, which is pretty 108 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: common throughout all history and many cultures. Yeah, I think 109 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: I think some people have the mistaken idea, idea, Uh, 110 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: there's only one culture that enslaved other people, and there 111 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: are many cultures that have enslaved other people. But onto 112 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: his wives. So, his first wife, Ladelia, he was really 113 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: quite deeply in love with, and she died shortly after 114 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: giving birth to their first child, Kiki so Blue, who 115 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: was also known to the settlers as Princess and Jeline. 116 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: She's a notable historical figure in that area and the 117 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: area as well. Um Seattle was really grief stipped stricken 118 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: when his wife died, and he only talked about her 119 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: openly much much later in his later years, he got 120 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: married again, to Uh, and I am going to have 121 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: trouble with this pronunciation um YoY ill. And they had 122 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: two daughters and three sons together. Now, an interesting part 123 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: of his story is that he was actually baptized into 124 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. I think sometimes it's easy to forget 125 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: that there really was some blending of culture going on. Uh. 126 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: And after the death of one of his sons was 127 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: when he was baptized, and he took the name Noah 128 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: Seattle at that time and his children were raised in 129 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: the Catholic faith. And after Seattle's conversion, he focused less 130 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: on defending and occupying his territory and more on building 131 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: peaceful relations within the tribe and with the settlers that 132 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: were coming in right. The American settlers had gotten to 133 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: the a Puget Sound area around eighteen forty six, and 134 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: Seattle established himself from the very start as a welcoming 135 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: and peaceful presence. He tended to make friends with settlers. 136 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: He instructed the people in his tribes to try to 137 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: help people. They established fisheries in conjunction with the settlers, 138 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: and in particular, he was very close friends with a 139 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: man named doctor David S. Maynard, who was known as 140 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: Doc Doc Maynard was the first doctor and merchant in Seattle, UM, 141 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: and he was the prominent person. He owned most of 142 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: the land that is Pioneer Square in Seattle today, and 143 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: the settlement that actually became known as Seattle was established 144 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty two, which is just six short years 145 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: after the American settlers landed in the Puget Sound area. 146 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: So in March eighteen fifty three, Washington was separated out 147 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: from the Oregon Territory and in October Governor Isaac Stevens, 148 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: who was thirty five at the time, arrived in Olympia, 149 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: the capital of Washington. In addition to being governor of 150 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: the territory, he was also the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, 151 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: and one of his jobs as the governor and as 152 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: the Commissioner for Indian Affairs was to secure land for 153 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: the Transcontinental Railroad, and that was going to require the 154 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: local tribes to see their land to him. So it's 155 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: in this context that Seattle has met Stevens for the 156 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: first time and Stephen wants to secure the land. That 157 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: Chief Seattle reportedly gave a speech. Allegedly this was delivered 158 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: to Stevens or in the presence of him on the 159 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: steps of Doc Maynard's office after he was introduced to 160 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: Stevens and heard that Stevens wanted to to get the 161 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: local land from the native population. Um. According to what 162 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: has been reported, this happened on Steven's first visit into 163 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: the town. But that's a little hard to concretely verify 164 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: because we only have a few situations in that the 165 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: history of the area when we know that Seattle and 166 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: Stevens were in the same place at the same time. 167 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of speculation about when exactly 168 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: this speech may have taken place, and it in many 169 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: of the accounts where it happened very um, almost immediately 170 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: after they met. It's a little bit tricky to get 171 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: your head around the idea of this great speech being 172 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: made pretty quickly after, like a handshake in a quick 173 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: discussion right there there. Yeah, we'll talk about that as 174 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: we talk about the text of the speech a little bit. Uh. 175 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: This is a speech that some people may have read 176 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: in school. What they read in school may not have 177 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: been remotely accurate. And here's why. Um. The first speech 178 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: was purportedly recorded by a doctor Henry Smith as notes 179 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: as the address was was delivered Um. He then reconstructed 180 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: that speech from his notes and published it in the 181 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: Seattle Sunday Star in eight seven, so it was thirty 182 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: two or thirty three years after it was reportedly delivered. Um. 183 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: Occasionally people say that this speech was made at the 184 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: signing of the Point Elliott Treaty. We know for sure 185 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: this is not the case because, uh, Smith says pretty specifically, 186 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: this happened in Seattle on the steps of Doc Maynard's office. 187 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: That is not where the Point Elliott Treaty was signed. 188 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: And Smith was also not present at Point elliotts and 189 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: he would have not been able to make notes. No. Uh. 190 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: The second version is basically an edited, rewritten version of 191 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: Smith's that was published in the Seattle Sunday Star, which 192 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: was done by a poet named William Arrismith. This is 193 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: the same content, but the grammar and structure are different, 194 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: so it's sort of like updating the Victorian English record 195 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: to be a little bit more modernized in its tone 196 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: in voice. And then the third and most famous iteration 197 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: of the speech that's attributed to Chief Seattle is reported 198 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: to be a letter that Chief Seattle Seattle wrote to 199 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: the President, which would have been either Polk or Pierce, 200 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: depending on who you're looking at in terms of who 201 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: cites this speech. But it was actually written not at 202 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 1: all by Seattle. It was written so much later seventies 203 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: by a guy named Ted Perry for an environmental film 204 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: called Home, which was written for the Southern Baptist Convention. Uh, 205 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: it's this is where it just this is a lot 206 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: of people really dwell on the speech and whether it 207 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: was authentic. It pretty clearly was not. But this speech 208 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: has been quoted in numerous anthologies. It was made into 209 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: a children's book called Brother Eagle Sister Sky. Joseph Campbell 210 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: talked about it in the Power of Myth. It's like 211 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: made it onto bumper stickers and T shirts all over 212 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: the place. It took on a life of its own, 213 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: it really did. And it sort of starts with this, uh, 214 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: this thing that was published in the Seattle Sunday Star. 215 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: It starts with some similarities to that, and then it 216 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: veers off in a very environmental direction, with very bumper 217 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: sticker quotable quotes in it. Um, we know for sure 218 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: that this was not a letter to the president. Um. 219 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: In addition to the fact that James K. Polk was 220 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: dead in fifty four. There's not any record of any 221 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: such letter going from Seattle to the president, and a 222 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: letter from a Native American chief to the President would 223 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: have made several bureaucratic stops on the way, and there's 224 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: no record of it in any of those places. There's 225 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: also no record of Chief Seattle asking anyone to write 226 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: a letter for him, and since he was illiterate, he 227 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: would have needed to do that. And then the cherry 228 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: on top, Ted Perry wrote it, and he says he 229 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: wrote He says he wrote it. He acknowledges authorship of it. Right. 230 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: So I'm going to take a minute and just sort 231 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: of read a little snippet of the Seattle Sunday Star 232 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: version and the Ted Perry version, and the there's a 233 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: twofold purpose here. One is to give you an idea 234 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: of the tone of the speech that was allegedly given originally, 235 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: and the other is to give you an idea of 236 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: how completely different from that the Ted Perry version is. 237 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk a little bit more about the 238 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: Sunday Star version in a minute. So this is a 239 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: snippet from the Seattle Sunday Star version. Chief Seattle says, 240 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: your God is not our God. Your God loves your 241 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: people and hates mine. He folds his strong, protecting arms 242 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: lovingly about the pale face and leaves him by the 243 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: hand as a father leads an infant son. But he 244 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: has forsaken his red children, if they are really his 245 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: our God, the Great Spirit seems also to have forsaken us. 246 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: Your God makes your people wax stronger every day. Soon 247 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: they will fill all the land. Our people are ebbing 248 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: away like a rapidly receding tide that will never return. 249 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: The white man's God cannot love our people, or he 250 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: would protect them. They seem to be orphans who can 251 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: look nowhere for help. How then can we be brothers. 252 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: It's very sad, it is, But it's also very weird 253 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: when you remember that he was a Catholic. Yes, it's 254 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: it's weird. With a lot of context that we'll talk 255 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: about in more detail. Um, the whole of it has 256 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: been categorized into this idea of a fair el speech. 257 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: There are several speeches delivered by Native Americans within that 258 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: era that that sort of lament the death of Native 259 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: American culture and the face of white settlement. Another really 260 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: famous one would be Chief's Chief Joseph gave such an address. Um, 261 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about why that interpretation 262 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: of this is kind of problematic in a few minutes. 263 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: But here's a piece of the Ted Perry version. Uh. 264 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: And it does start off following some similar points to 265 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: what I just read, but then it goes into this 266 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: environmental direction, with things like you must teach your children 267 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of 268 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: our grandfathers, so that they will respect the land. Tell 269 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: your children that the earth is rich with the lives 270 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: of our kin. Teach your children that what we will 271 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: have taught our children, that the earth is our mother. 272 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: Whatever befall the earth befalls the sons of the earth. 273 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. 274 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: This we knew. The earth does not belong to man. 275 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: Man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things 276 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: are connected, like the blood which unites one family. All 277 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: things are connected. Whatever befall the earth befalls the sons 278 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: of the earth. Man did not weave the web of life. 279 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: He is nearly a strand in it. Whatever he does 280 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: to the web, he does to himself. That has two 281 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: bits of it that often show up on T shirts 282 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: and bumper stickers and that kind of thing. Well, and 283 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: it's easy to see why. I mean, it is very 284 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: moving and you know, really quotable, very quotable, sort of 285 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: poignant from an ecological standpoint, which I think part of 286 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: the reason that myth grows and you know, continues this 287 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: attribution of these words with Chief Seattle is that we 288 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: normally associate that sort of awareness of the earth and 289 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: the planet as something bigger than just what we're you know, 290 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: sort of running on day to day. We associate that 291 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: closeness more with a native and Arikans than we do 292 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: with the European settlers. Right, it really did take on 293 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: a weird life of its own. Um And the reason 294 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: it's so quotable is because it was written for a film. 295 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: It was written to be quotable. Yes, So I've read 296 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: lots of things that kind of dissect all the ways 297 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: in which that particular version of the address does not 298 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: make any sense in the context of the time. But 299 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: we're not going to really get into them, because we 300 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: know the real story already that Ted Perry wrote it, Like, 301 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: we don't really need to go and dissect all the 302 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: ways in which it was not would not make sense 303 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: for Chief Seattles who have said something about trains when 304 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: he never saw a train, because we know that Ted 305 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: Perry wrote it. So for the really the rest of 306 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: this podcast, the the version of the address that we're 307 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: talking about is the one that was printed in the 308 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: Seattle Sunday Star. Um. It was reprinted many times throughout 309 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: the year. Was reprinted, not not as many times as 310 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: the Ted Perry version, but it did get it got 311 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 1: its share of attention. UM. At various points that text 312 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: was reprinted and pam flits and books and histories and 313 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: things like that. At some point along the line, somebody 314 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: added a thirteen word finish. Um. He he ends with 315 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: the idea of not to dismiss the dead because the 316 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: dead are not powerless. And somebody added a sort of 317 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: thirteen word word coded that says dead. I say there 318 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: is no death, only a change of worlds. And that's 319 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: not in the original Sunday Star version. So that got 320 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: added in and then sort of picked up and passed 321 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: along as it was reprinted. Um. We're gonna sort of 322 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: talk now about how even when we have this text 323 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: that came from the Seattle Sunday star. We're still not 324 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: really sure how authentic it is or how will it 325 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: actually represents the words that were spoken at the time. 326 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: And it begins with the guy who wrote it down. Uh. 327 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: Dr Henry Smith was a scholar and source has said 328 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: that he was bilingual in English and Duwamish. And that 329 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: is a little weird because what the Duwamish tribes actually 330 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: spoke was a language called the show Seed. I apologize 331 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: if I have pronounced that wrongly. Um. Any address that 332 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: Chief Seattle gave would have been made in this language 333 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: and then translated to the Chinnook jargon, which was sort 334 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: of a common tongue uniting all of the people that 335 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: lived in that in that area. Then it would have 336 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: been translated into into English. We don't really know which 337 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: of the versions Dr Smith was listening to when he 338 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: took his notes, um. And it is worth noting that 339 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: the fact that Seattle either didn't speak at the jargon 340 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: or said he didn't speak the jargon jargon kind of 341 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: sets him apart from other people in the area, Like, 342 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: that's kind of a weird decision to make to say, 343 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: I just I don't speak this common tongue. I lead 344 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: all of these tribes who speak a language I do not, right, Um, 345 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: but that meant that he had to have an interpreter everywhere, 346 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: which sort of became a mark of status, Like, if 347 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: we are going to entertain this, this diplomat from these tribes, 348 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: we're going to need to make sure that we do 349 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: this thing of getting an interpreter for him. So we 350 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: don't really know which of these three versions that were 351 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: probably being delivered was the one that Dr Smith took 352 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: his notes from. And we do know. I mean, he 353 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: is a fairly reliable figure in that he was the 354 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: superintendent of local schools, he was a member of the legislature. 355 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: So it's not like he was just a self proclaimed 356 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: scholar who swooped in and claimed to understand these things. 357 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: He really was pretty ingrained in the area. Um, you know, 358 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: he wasn't just a someone claiming to be knowledgeable about 359 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: these things. He was an established part of the community. 360 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: But the place where it gets a little weird, though, 361 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: is that the column and the Sunday Star where he 362 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: published this speech, in addition to it being thirty two 363 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: or thirty three years after the fact, was part of 364 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: an eleven part series that was celebrating the pioneers of Seattle. Um, 365 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: it was, as we often see generational divides happening. There 366 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: was this generational divide happening between the people known as 367 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: the Old Seattle, which were the pioneers that had settled 368 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: the area and established the city, and New Seattle, which 369 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: was the young entrepreneurs who were graduately taking those people's 370 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: places in society. So the fact that he was trying 371 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: to put Old Seattle in its best light might have 372 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: influenced the way Smith reinterpreted and reconstructed his notes when 373 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: he was making the version that he put in the 374 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: Seattle Sunday Star. And even his description of Seattle at 375 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: the address kind of exemplifies this. He describes the chief 376 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: as putting his hand on the head of a visible 377 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: nobleman and then taking up a posture that resembles what 378 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: we think of in ancient Roman senators. Yeah, Like, if 379 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: if you look at old pictures of people giving orations, 380 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: like paintings of people giving orations in Rome, and they 381 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: have this very noble bearing and they have sort of 382 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: a hand lifted up, that's that's the portrait that Smith 383 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: paints when he's introducing this speech. Um, it definitely comes 384 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: off as prophetic because it talks a lot about the 385 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: decline of the Native American population in the face of 386 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: white settlers. It's possible that the reason that it comes 387 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: off as prophetic is is because Smith reconstructed it with 388 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: knowledge of what happened in the next thirty years, which 389 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: really was an orchestrated attempt by the government and lots 390 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: of places to push Native Americans out of land and 391 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: to break up tribes so that their original culture would 392 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: be less prevalent or or just removed from their way 393 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: of life. Like he knew about all that stuff because 394 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: it had happened in the interim, right, it had happened 395 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: in the interim. Another thing that had happened in the 396 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: interim was the what we mentioned a little earlier, which 397 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: was chiefs Joe's I sort of farewell speech that happened 398 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy seven. So it's possible that some of 399 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: the fatalism and the tone is influenced by Smith's knowledge 400 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: of what happened later and of the kind of speeches 401 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: that other Native Americans we're making elsewhere in the United States. 402 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: And additionally, it's we should note that Seattle already had 403 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: a reputation for being really friendly and welcoming to the 404 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: white settlers that were coming long before Governor Stephen's arrival. 405 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: So it's pretty uncharacteristic that he would suddenly have this 406 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: sort of negative, um, very dark speech. It was full 407 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: of pessimism and mourning and it's a sense of impending doom. 408 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: But he had a pretty favorable relationship with a lot 409 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: of white settlers in the area, so it seems that 410 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: he may have been concerned about about land being removed 411 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: from his tribe. But the overwhelming sense of sadness um 412 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: seems possibly not characteristic of of his other encounters with 413 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: white settlers. And there's also no record of this speech 414 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: in the Smithsonium. It's not in the National Archives, it's 415 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: not in the Library of Congress. The primary source that 416 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: we have is something that was written down in the 417 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: note form and note starting a note form more than 418 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: more than thirty years after the fact. We do though 419 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: have as a reference to short speech is that Seattle 420 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: made at the Point Elliott Treaty Council, which was from 421 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: December eighteen fifty four UM. And these are from the 422 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: record of the proceedings and the Bureau of Indian Affairs 423 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: and the National Archives. They are so dissimilar in style 424 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: and wor wording to the Seattle Sunday Star piece. They're 425 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: so different. I can read you both of them, which 426 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: I am going to do. Um. The first is I 427 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: look upon you as my father. I and the rest 428 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: regard you as such. All of the Indians have the 429 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: same good feeling toward you, and we'll send it in 430 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: paper to the Great Father. All of the men, old men, 431 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: women and children rejoice that he has sent you to 432 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: take care of them. My mind is like yours. I 433 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: don't want to say more. My heart is very good 434 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,959 Speaker 1: towards Dr Maynard. I want always to get medicine from him. 435 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: That's the thing. One. The other is is presumably after 436 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: the treaty was signed, and he says, now by this 437 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: we make friends and put away all bad feelings, if 438 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: ever we had any. We are the friends of the Americans. 439 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: All the Indians are of the same mind. We look 440 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: upon you as our father. We will never change our minds, 441 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: but since you have been to see us, we will 442 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: always be the same. Now, now do you send this 443 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: paper so vastly different in tone from from this other 444 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: address that was supposedly delivered. You know, within a year 445 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: or so of this. Um, we could get into things 446 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: that are kind of troubled, like the deferential tone that 447 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: that people might think is is troubling in this particular 448 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: set of addresses. But I'm more interested in looking at 449 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: how that sounds so much different from this thing that 450 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: was allegedly delivered on Documentard's office steps. Yes, and several 451 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: people that were supposedly there have no had no memory 452 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: of such an address that was that longer impassioned. A 453 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: local interpreter by the name of BF Shaw was there, 454 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: he didn't remember it. David S. Maynard's widow, Catherine, was there, 455 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: and she had no recollection of a long and passion speech. Uh. 456 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: And there aren't any other contemporary records of Seattle delivering 457 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: any speeches like it. Uh. You know, the newspaper in 458 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: Olympia did not report any similar things. There's really no 459 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: historical record of speeches of that nature being made by him. Uh. 460 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: One of the primary chroniclers of the history of the 461 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest from that time is a man named Clarence B. Bagley. 462 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: He moved with his family to the Pacific Northwest when 463 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: he was nine, and, in addition to working a lot 464 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: of other jobs, from painting to running minds. He was 465 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: a newspaperman, and he became like a really prominent local historian. 466 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: He was part of the founding of the Washington State 467 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: Historical Society, and he wrote to three volume histories, one 468 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: of Seattle and one of King County, which is the 469 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: county that Seattle is in UM, and both of these 470 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: are still looked on as achievements in the documenting of 471 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest history. UM. He mentions more than once 472 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: in his book that Chief Seattle and Doc Maynard were 473 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: great friends. UM, and this speech supposedly happened on Doc 474 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: Maynard's office steps. So it seems sort of odd too 475 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: many historians today that the friendship between Seattle and UH 476 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: and Doc Maynard would have been important enough to mention 477 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: more than once in these histories, but that a speech 478 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: of that length with that tone would not be UM. 479 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: The last thing that kind of makes people question how 480 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: authentic this recording from the Seattle Sunday Star is is 481 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: that Smith said on his deathbed that the account was 482 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: true and accurate, which seems a little strange to people 483 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: that that would be what you spend your death, your 484 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: dying breath uh, reiterating that thing that I wrote in 485 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: Seattle's and the Sunday Star was really a thing that happened, Yes, 486 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: especially since there's really no corroborating evidence for it. It's an, 487 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: as you said, it's an odd last words scenario. Yes, 488 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: that the general consensus, I mean, there's there's a surprising 489 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: maybe not surprising, there's a there's a fair amount of 490 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: debate about lots of aspects of this speech, and that 491 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: the general consensus is probably there was an address of 492 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: some sort, probably that happened when Chief Seattle was introduced 493 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 1: to Governor Stevens. But that probably what we have today 494 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: is a record of it is not a hundred percent 495 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: what actually was said. It just it's not quite feasible 496 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: for something to be reconstructed from notes thirty years after 497 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: the fact to be a pent accurate to what had 498 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: happened at the time. Well, and it's also important to 499 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: take into account that we were still early on in 500 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: our relationship, you know, in terms of Native Americans and 501 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: the settlers and pioneers coming in. That relationship was still 502 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: very early. It was so the linguistic development between them, 503 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,479 Speaker 1: like learning each other's which is was probably you know, 504 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: still in its infancy in many ways, so there were 505 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: probably lots of nuances of language that were not clear 506 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: to each side. So in terms of interpretation, there's some 507 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: great area. Right. It continues to be an important address. 508 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: I think it's importance. Some of it has to do 509 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: with this whole back story of understanding better, uh, the 510 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: context in which it may have happened, and the relationships 511 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: among the people involved, and a lot of that leads 512 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: into the legacy of Chief Seattle and of this speech. Um. 513 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: He had a pretty welcoming attitude toward settlers for his 514 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: entire life really and especially his time as chief, and 515 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: this didn't really make him popular with all of the 516 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: rest of the Native American population, especially when he signed 517 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: the Point Elliott Treaty in eighteen fifty five. That treaty 518 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: relinquished all of the tribal claims to most of the 519 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: land in the area. What was supposed to happen was 520 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: that the tribes would get acts us to hunting and 521 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: fishing grounds, healthcare, education, and a reservation in exchange for 522 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: doing all of that. Uh. That is, as we all know, 523 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: not really what happened. And it took three years for 524 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: the treaty to be ratified, and by the time it 525 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: was ratified, it was very different from what people had 526 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: originally agreed to you, So there was a whole lot 527 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: of unrest among the Native American people. Um It's it's 528 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: pretty telling. When you look at historical accounts, a lot 529 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: of the most mainstream ones talk about how Seattle was 530 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: always a friend to the settlers and he signed this 531 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: this treaty out of friendship. When you look at tribal records, 532 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: the tone is more that he was afraid of a 533 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: military conflict that he knew there was no way to win. 534 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: So it's something that you can definitely look at from 535 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: multiple angles thinking about the relationships between these two people, 536 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: which from this point was definitely not as positive as 537 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: it had been in the very earliest days of the 538 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: founding of Seattle. Well and the Native Americans did accused 539 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: Seattle of uh duplicity, and it really led to a 540 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: lot of ongoing problems, especially because of how the treaty 541 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: actually played out once it was in effect. There were 542 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: wars between the native tribes and the settlers in the 543 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: mid eighteen fifties. All through those lots of things, lots 544 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: of areas of the Pacific northwest, where they were wars 545 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: between the Native Americans and the settlers, and Seattle continued 546 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: to remain an ally and tried to keep his tribes 547 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: out of the battle um at. In some points he 548 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: would warn the American settlers of incoming attacks by other tribes. 549 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: So he continued to stand by the white settlers, even 550 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: as a lot of the other native tribes nearby, and 551 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: the ones that were maybe not part of his his 552 00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: particular collection of tribes, really fought back against the settlers. 553 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: Years and after the town of Seattle was incorporated in 554 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five, ordnance actually forbade permanent Indian houses within 555 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,479 Speaker 1: the city limits, right, so he had to give up 556 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: his home, yeah, which he had not. They had already, 557 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, already figuratively there had been of giving up 558 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: of the homeland. And then he literally had to move 559 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: out of the city. He moved to the Port Madison 560 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: Sequamash Reservation, and he died there after a brief illness 561 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: in June of eighteen sixty six, at about the age 562 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: of eighty. Since we're not completely sure exactly when he 563 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: was born, that's an estimate. We know that his funeral 564 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: involved both Catholic and Native rights, but there wasn't a 565 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: record of it in the newspapers at the time, not 566 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: really involved in any of the records of the local 567 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: white settlers. Uh to our knowledge, no leaders who had 568 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 1: known him and who had helped found the city with 569 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: his assistants attended his funeral, so by that point, by 570 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: the point of his death, he was not well known 571 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: in the area anymore, at least among the settlers. The 572 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: Seattle Weekly Intelligent Intelligencer printed an article about his funeral 573 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy, so it was some years after it happened, 574 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: and then the Seattle Sunday Star with his speech came 575 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: out in eighteen eighty seven. He started to become a 576 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: folk hero at that point, and the Ted Perry speech 577 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: from the seventies made him into more of a household name, 578 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: and some history minded people put up a marker in 579 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety that read Seattle Chief of the sus Quamps 580 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: and Allied tribes died June seventh, eighteen sixty six, from 581 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: friend of the Whites, and for him, the city of 582 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: Seattle was named by its founders. The reverse side reads 583 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: baptismal name Noah's self age probably eighty years so there 584 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: is a marker, but it didn't go up for I 585 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: didn't go up until some people decided that there should 586 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: be one. It was sort of marked with a rough year. 587 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: Twenty four years later. It was roughly marked before that point. 588 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: The Squamas tribe opened a museum in Seattle in September, 589 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: which is about the tribe's history and culture. Chief Seattle 590 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: does play a small part in the overall museum, but 591 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: he's not the center focus of it. The Seattle Times 592 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: quotes the museum director as saying, I think the tribe 593 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: is consciously trying to move away from Chief Seattle being 594 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: the beginning, middle, and end of the tribe. It's in 595 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: no way a reflection of less esteem or less respect. 596 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: It was not there yet the last time I was 597 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: in Seattle. Nope, now I want to go either. It's 598 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: quite recent. Uh so, yeah, I want to go to 599 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: Uh it's it's so interesting to see how history treats him, right, 600 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of him having it once been. 601 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, for me growing up in the 602 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: seventies in just outside of Seattle, there was lots of 603 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: Chief Seattle talks. So it's very interesting now to know 604 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: that in the museum at least his role is played 605 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: down a little bit right well, and I can imagine 606 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: it being since the city was named after him growing 607 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: up in the area, growing up in the Pacific Northwest, 608 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: I think that people's exposure to Chief Seattle and who 609 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: he was and what his legacy was, and what the 610 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: Native Americans in the area are like is probably vastly 611 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: different from much of the rest of the United States. 612 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: I would imagine, yes, having not grown up in the 613 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: rest of the United States to compare. I love Seattle. 614 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: I think it's an awesome, beautiful part of the world, 615 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: and I'm glad that we have the records that we 616 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: do have of what the settlement there was like. It 617 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: is as many parts of American history are. When it 618 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: comes to the relationship between settlers and Native Americans, is 619 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: very distressing, especially when you consider that after the time 620 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: period that we've talked about, there were some pretty orchestrated 621 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: efforts by the Romant to try to basically breed out 622 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 1: in quotes, Native Americans. That was like sending Native American 623 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: children to boarding schools so that they wouldn't be exposed 624 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: to their native culture, uh, that type of thing. So 625 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: the fact that the Squamis tribe has been able to 626 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: survive in the face of all that is is noted 627 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: as an achievement. Uh that there are still nine and 628 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: fifty members after all of that. Indeed, I feel like 629 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 1: we're ending on a sad note. I know, I'm trying 630 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: to think of a way to make it happy. But 631 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: there's a new museum. There is a new museum, and 632 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: the pictures of it look beautiful, Yeah, gorgeous. They look 633 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: really beautiful and like a really wonderful place to go 634 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: and learn more about cultural history of that part. Any 635 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: time you travel in the Pacific Northwest, the Native American 636 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: influence is so visible in a lot of places, and 637 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: so being able to see where that all comes from 638 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: instead of it just being sort of the facade stuck 639 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: on the building, I think is a wonderful thing to 640 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: be able to do. Yes, maybe we should have a pilgrimage. 641 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: Let's do that history field trip. We can visit my brother. 642 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: I also have a brother and a sister there, and 643 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: I believe you also have a listener, Mail, I certainly do. 644 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: And this one amuses me a little bit because it 645 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: is a correction to a correction that we previously read 646 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: and listener mail. We had previously read a correction about 647 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: whether you could describe the pope as having resigned, and 648 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: so this one comes from Jacqueline and she says, high ladies, 649 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: just listen to your last podcast. And I wanted to 650 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: clarify a piece of mail that said the word resigned 651 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: should not be used in regard to Pope Benedict. As 652 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: a former reporter for a Catholic newspaper, I pulled out 653 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: my Catholic a p style guide. Yes, we had to 654 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: use two style guides when writing stories. And the word 655 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: retirement can be used for a pope, priest, cardinal, or bishop. 656 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: Here's what it says retirement. When referring to a priest, bishop, cardinal, etcetera. 657 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 1: It can be said that he retired from active ministry or, 658 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: in the case of a priest, attained see near priest's status. 659 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: This is to clarify the point that the priest does 660 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,919 Speaker 1: not retire from the priesthood. He remains a priest, though 661 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: has retired from full time assignments. So the word retirement 662 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: or resigned can be used as it's how it's used 663 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: that matters to the Catholic Church. Hope this clears things 664 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: up for everyone. So while that entry does not specifically 665 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: say pope, we did go look this up ourselves after 666 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: we recorded our previous one where we talked about that correction, Yeah, 667 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: because we realized in talking about it that we had 668 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: seen it on many other news sites listed as resigned. 669 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: Sort of said what is the rest? Looking up and 670 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: the ap did specifically use the word retired, um, as 671 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: did it. Turns out the Vatican official things from the 672 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: Vatican website used the word retired when Pope Benedict delivered 673 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: his address. It was translated to the word renounced, so 674 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: that word can be used. Um. But then also there 675 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: were official things from the Vatican that used the word resigned. 676 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: So it appears that resigned is okay as a word 677 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: to use about talking about a pope stepping down. It 678 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: happens so infrequently and certainly in the modern era, that 679 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: we don't really have a clear established rule. You don't 680 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 1: really have at the topic that used to Yeah, we 681 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: don't what to call a pope's no longer being in 682 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: the pope. So yes, if you would like to comment 683 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: further about when we can and can't use the word 684 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: resign or this podcast or anything else, you may write 685 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: to us a history podcast at Discovery dot com. We're 686 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: also on Twitter at mist in History and on Facebook 687 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: at facebook dot com slash history Class stuff. If you 688 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,479 Speaker 1: would like to learn more about what we talked about 689 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: today and what the city of Seattle has turned into, 690 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: you can go to our website and put the word 691 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: Seattle in the search bar and you will find the 692 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: Ultimate City of Seattle quiz. You can do that and 693 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 1: a whole lot more at our website, which is how 694 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. For more on this and thousands 695 00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: of other topics, does it how stuff works dot com. 696 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: This episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class is 697 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,240 Speaker 1: brought to you by Jack Threads.