WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Josh Gibson's Yankee Stadium Home Run 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.680 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a current 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:07.160 wheeling trust Saratops. Instead is supported by the generous contributions 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.080 of people like you, our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:19.079 dot com slash Thinking Sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:29.560 I don't understand you never know stories of things. We 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:35.360 simply don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, and welcome 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.120 again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:45.120 of course, joined by my lovely co host. That was good. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:51.199 Wow you doo, we're both were the lovely one all right. Well, 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.560 if for anybody who couldn't understand them that that one's 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.080 Joe and that one's Devin, you're pointing thrown people against Steve. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:02.080 I'm not anyway. Here. We as always have a mystery 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.120 for you, and we actually have kind of a different 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.520 mystery than we've ever looked into before. Different. It's the 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:14.080 scariest one ever because it's a sports mystery. He was 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.240 talking to somebody today and they said, oh, are you 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.360 doing this because of the World series. Oh crap, we 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.760 really should have done this a while ago. Yeah, because 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.280 by the time this comes out, the series will be done. Yeah, 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.720 But I guess for anybody who hadn't figed. We hadn't 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:28.840 told anybody yet, so now they know we're doing a 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.640 baseball mystery. Actually this is a good thing because you know, 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.520 after after the World Series is over, baseball fans will 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.560 be jonesing for a baseball fix. This will yeah, they'll 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:41.560 give him there, a little bit of a fix. Yeah. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.400 I'm not sure if I'm okay with that, but okay, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.960 as long as I can make money off. Well. Our 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:53.440 mystery today is did Josh Gibson actually hit a home 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.680 run out of not in, but out of Yankee Stadium, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.520 meaning that he was in Yankee Stadium, but he hit 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.800 the ball out of Yankee Stadium and traveled outside of 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.840 the stadium. That is correct, outside of the walls and 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.160 the the original stadium, the new stadium, the original stadium. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.800 Our story takes place in the so definitely not the 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.760 one that was built in. But the new one was 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.960 two thousand nine was open, so yeah, definitely not one 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:25.400 or else we have an even larger mystery, would Yeah. 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:30.440 The reason that the story is really popular among baseball 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:35.440 fans is because of the height and distances required to 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.160 hit a baseball to actually get it literally out of 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.440 the park. Very few people have done it. I mean 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.760 in the Yankee Stadium, and the smaller park is not 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.680 that hard, but yeah, yeah, and and Yankee Stadium. Our 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.240 entire story is going to focus on that stadium. People 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.160 have hitted out of the park in other stadiums, and 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.040 Josh Gibson is known to have done that, but this 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.320 is all going to focus mainly, and when we're talking 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.320 about those home runs, it's going to be the stadium. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.320 But the reason is that it's that it's such an 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:08.600 epic thing is in the old stadium, it was from 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:15.240 home plate to the back wall five feet and the 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.760 wall was a this is a round figure about fifty high, 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:24.320 So that's a that's a that's a home run. No, absolutely, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.640 And just so you know what I gotta tell people 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.000 right now, I'm not a real baseball guy. I'm not 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.480 a real sports fan, so some of this stuff I 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.200 really had to figure out. And for people who don't 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.240 know or don't have these things just automatically memorized like 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.840 some of our friends do, here's some numbers for you 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.680 to kind of put a perspective on it. For our 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.840 for our foreign listeners who have never even heard of baseball, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.200 just like, I'm pretty sure they know from home plate 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.840 to second base, so all the way across the diamond, 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.240 you are are looking at a hundred seven ft that's 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:08.040 a standard number to go from home plate to the 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.760 end of the outfield. So of course there's going to 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.360 be bleachers from there on out, but that's a kind 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:18.560 of a variable number, but it's somewhere between two hundred 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:24.640 feet feet difference. Yeah, and then after that in Yankee Stadium, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.320 it's an additional one hundred and eighty feet to then 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.080 get outside of the park. So it's when you kind 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:32.960 of hear those numbers because I think most of us 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:34.760 kind of have an idea of the size of a 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.000 baseball diamond, but then you don't really think about how 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.599 many feet that is. And that's why this thing is 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.880 kind of an epic thing. Yeah. Absolutely, Wait, we're like, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:44.920 what to three minutes into the story already, and I 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:46.760 just realized that I screwed up, and I didn't think 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:53.000 the person who suggested it I did. You just don't 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.080 appreciate our listeners. Actually, I do want to say thank 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.240 you to Jonathan who sent this in. You know this 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.560 is I I think you both know this that I've 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.880 been working on this for six months or something like that. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:06.920 I couldn't let it go. I'd always be doing a 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.640 little bit of work, get sidetracked, but I could never 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.560 let go. And I think it's just because of the 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.560 fact that as an American or as an American male 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.440 kind of hardwired to have a thing for baseball, even 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.560 American in general. Yeah, I think even like I don't 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.080 really I like soccer slash football and ending on where 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.440 you are, but I don't really like sports. But I 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.400 can sit down and watch a baseball game. I think 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.640 you can enjoy baseball even if you have no idea 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.159 what's going on. The basic premise of it is really simple. 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.360 You can hit the ball and then you run. Yeah, 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:40.280 and then they tried they try to catch the ball, 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:46.040 and then they try to tag you out. It's really simple. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.400 So I think it's just we're lazy with our sports 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.720 and that's it's a really easy one that you can 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.560 just sit down and go and you know, so I 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.440 would say American romance general, Yeah, And I think, well, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:00.800 I think that's why I couldn't ever put this story down. Yeah, 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.000 a little overboard, especially with the whole one to exhume 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.960 the body of Josh Gibson, the building the scale replicas 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.360 of old Yankee Stadium. Listen, I had to do something 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.880 with all of the toothpicks, Okay, I mean and all 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.279 that Elmer's glue had to do something. I was going 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:23.960 to expire. Jeez, you too. Okay, let's let's actually get 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.279 on with our story. Yeah, yeah, we probably should un 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.040 So we'll start at the beginning. Josh Gibson was born 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.760 in nineteen eleven in Georgia, and then when he was twelve, 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:38.080 his family moved to Pittsburgh and that's kind of where 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.919 he gets his start in baseball. He was he was 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.040 a big guy. He really was like six to hundred 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:52.919 and eighty to two hundred pounds depending well, yeah, that 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:54.880 it depends on where it is through his career. But 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.280 he was a big guy, and he was an athlete. 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.200 He was good at every sport, but he was good 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.440 or at baseball. He was good at baseball or he 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.920 preferred baseball. Yeah, well obviously we know which one he 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.680 went after, um, But no, he he was. He was 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.600 the guy who really was just good and everything he did. 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.600 As we know, he liked baseball the most, so he 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.520 was known to hang out at sand lawns and participate 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.520 in just about any pickup game he could. He Uh, 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.800 he was a catcher, which is not an easy position 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.920 in my mind to play, because you know, you gotta squad, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:34.720 you gotta catch nine if you're bigger. Probably that is 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.600 actually one of the things that worked in his favorites 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.480 because he was such a big guy. There's a lot 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.360 of abuse and he was good at taking it all. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.559 That squatt intrough the game. That would get old real fast, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:48.480 but that's why baseball players have such cute butts. That 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.760 it is. But I think Gibson also played some outfield 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.800 positions to on occasion he did. It was kind of 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.760 a we're going to put you in a position so 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.240 we can put you in the game kind of thing. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.360 Is only what it was. They would put him in, 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:06.160 say left field for a game. He was not just 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.600 a good hitter. He was a good thrower catcher. No, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.240 he was. He was definitely a fantastic hitter. I mean, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.200 the guy wailed on baseballs, as we're going to talk about. Uh. 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:21.160 He is often referred to as the quote unquote black 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.640 Babe Ruth, and he would make This is a term 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.800 that was around in the thirties Ruthian hits, although I 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.160 really like it better when you come across where people 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.920 say that Babe Ruth was the white Josh Gibson, he 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.520 made Gibson Gibsonian hits, which you actually do. See. This 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.040 is probably the point where we should stop real fast 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.560 and let everybody know. Story takes place in the thirties 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.680 and the forties. There was language around race that was 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.720 used at that time that it's not what I would use, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.480 but it is the name of things. We're just going 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.320 to call things the things they were called. We're going 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.880 to use the name of things. So be prepared if 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.040 if that kind of stuff you or you you take 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.560 offense to it, I apologize. Can't change history. Sadly, I'm 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.439 gonna I'm gonna give it away. Here we're gonna talk 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.560 about the Negro League, the National Negro League, Negro League, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.520 which was, by the way, not a racial epithet in 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.800 those days. It still really isn't. It's just it was 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.840 the league for black players. Yeah, it was. It was 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.400 the word that preceded black. So yeah, so here we go, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.920 Here we go. As I said before, Josh played in 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.280 a lot of sand lot games, and that got the 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.440 his performance of those games got the attention of a 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.240 guy by the name of Composey, who was the manager 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.120 for a local team, which was the Homestead Grays in 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.400 that's when they picked him up. At the time, the 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.880 Grays were not part of the National Negro League. They 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.160 were an independent team. Eventually they would join the league, 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.439 but at that time they were and that it'll makes 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.360 sense why later baseball was a less structured in those days. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.720 It was very little structure. It was kind of fly 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.720 by the seat of your pants. Yeah, well, yeah, let's 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.280 you know, let's just explain how this works. So we 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.320 all know today there's the major leagues, there's the minor 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.400 leagues and things like peewee in high school, and all 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.280 the farm leagues. Yes, and there's some farm leagues. Well 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.040 that all of that wasn't nearly as structured at the time. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.800 And so what happened is there was a lot of 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.880 these local teams. There were just guys that like to 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.440 play baseball and they would get together and they would 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.720 be a team and they would travel to play a 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.679 guys in another city who would like to play baseball. 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.640 And there was no money in it. They were playing 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.199 not in stadiums they were playing in the local ballpark 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.800 or possibly the sand lot farm leagues. Yeah, we had 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.439 one in Portland growing up. I don't think they were 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:58.280 quite farm league minor minor, way below minor guys who 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.960 would actually legitimately fall running from base to base. But 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.160 it was it was really fun to watch, so you know. Yeah, 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.760 I mean, these are just teeny little things and most 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.360 of like I said, most of these guys didn't get paid. Luckily, 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.880 for the Homestead Grays, they actually did get paid, and 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:20.160 that's one of the things that was really attractive to 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.240 Josh to join the team, especially in the nineteen thirties 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.199 when there weren't any jobs. Yeah. Yeah, and we're gonna 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.800 we're gonna go into some of the money stuff in 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.440 a bit as to you know, but it was just 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.000 it was a much better career in terms of money 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.400 than a regular job. Actually he made good money. Yeah 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:40.640 he made Yeah, he really did for the time for 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.719 the nineties. Yeah. But let's uh, I want to tell 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.160 a story because I really really liked this story because 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.800 I really find it funny. And that is the story 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.720 of how Josh Gibson joined the Grays. So the story goes, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.600 the Grays were playing the Kansas City Monarchs, who at 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:05.960 that time it's nineteen thirty, they were part they were 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.080 in the National Negro League, and they were one of 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.199 the top teams that year. I did. I had to 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.240 look it up again earlier. So it's just making sure 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.280 they later on they weren't. The teams would jump in 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.200 and out of leagues or jump from one league to 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.240 the next, so it gets a little confusing at times. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.559 So they're in the league, they're a top team, the Monarchs. 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.920 The Monarchs, No, we're talking, Yes, this is the grades 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.360 are not they're not in league. So it's kind of 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.800 an exhibition game. Okay, look how good we are. Yes, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.240 this is a night game, right. Well, that's the thing 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.280 is that, according to the story, the Monarchs had a 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.240 well to do sponsor who bought them their own mobile lights. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.880 So it was a night game. Okay, well but they're 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.920 nineteen thirty lights. They run on generators. They're not all 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.680 that great, but it allows a bunch of people to 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.720 come in the evening and watch the game, which means 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.480 that you can make some money. So that's why they 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.120 did it. Problem was the lights were good enough that 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.240 the picture and the catcher could see each other to 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.360 read signals. If you don't know this, in baseball, the 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.880 catcher does hand signals to the picture to tell him 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.800 what kind of pitch to throw. Really simple process, except 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.440 that if you can't see what he's doing, you have 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.959 no idea what kind of ball to throw, or to catch, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.760 or what you're going to catch exactly. That's a very 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.280 good point too, because that comes into play here. So 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.160 we've got two guys who were said to have been 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.000 playing we have I love the names that these guys get. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.400 The picture was Smokey Joe Williams and the catcher was 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.040 Buck you Ing, and they evidently, according to the story, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.800 crossed up their signs. So it was to only do 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.680 two signs or two pitches. Yes, it was a fastball 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.560 and a curveball. That was all they were gonna do. 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.679 A couple innings in somebody switches it up, wrong kind 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.840 of ball gets thrown. Buck you Ing, who is the catcher, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.160 catches the ball bear and died, which you have done, 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:07.920 so fun splits his hand open. Josh Gibson just happens 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.840 to be in the stands by the by the dugout, 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.600 eating a hot dog and watching the game and compose 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.120 he sees him, recognizes him, pulls him out of the stands, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.640 and puts him into the game to relieve Youwing for 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.960 the rest of the game, and then from there hires him. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.960 It is if that was really the way it went, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.920 it's actually not how it went. I love that story, 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.080 and actually it's you see a bunch of things where 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.400 Josh always laughed at this retelling of how he joined 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.240 the team. Yeah, I think that it's partly true, though, right, 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.000 a portion of it is. Yes, the first game that 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.000 he played for the Grays, it wasn't actually an eating game. 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.080 It was an afternoon game, and it wasn't against the Monarchs. 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.160 It was against another team, which was a white semi 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.920 pro team. Smokey Joe wasn't The picture was actually an 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.800 the guy named again love this name, Charles Lefty Williams. Well, 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.560 they got the last name right, they did. Um Ewing 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.120 did actually split a finger open, and they did need 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:17.560 somebody to relieve him. But the deal was Posey had 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.920 already told Josh he was going to bring him on 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.280 the team and that he should be ready whenever he 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.680 needed him to come play. So what happens is Ewing 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.600 splits his finger, Josh is not in the stands. He's 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.640 at another game that day. He's playing for the Crawford Giants. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.640 They put one of the Grays, put one of their 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.600 players at a cab, send him over to the Giants game. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.480 He gets Josh, Josh and he get back in the 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.640 cab and go back to the Grays game, where he 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.200 then relieves you Ing and then is on the team. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.280 But he doesn't immediately take the position. He slowly works 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.280 into the position as youwing slowly works towards retirement. But 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.080 they said they didn't stop the whole game while the 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.800 guy went got Josh. No. I think they had a 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.960 relief catcher hopeless, or it was the end of the 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.560 inning and they were at bat. Maybe that they put 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.160 that's a great point, because you know, depending on the 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.800 game and inning can take time, and who knows how 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.400 far a part those ball fields were. I didn't actually 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.400 think to look, and I don't know that I can 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.720 find that anymore. You know, maybe it was the seventh 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.040 inning stretch, could be, you ever know, it's a good point. 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.200 I didn't thought about that. It turns out I know 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.080 some things about baseball. I guess you do. Yeah, a 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.600 few things more than I do. What's that thing that 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.000 they hold in their hands, the bat or the ball, 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:49.120 that's it. That's it. Okay, they hold the narrow end right, Okay, good, good, 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.080 I'm good. I'm glad I got that right. Um okay? 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.080 Um So, as So, that's like I said, that's the 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:57.720 real story of how Josh got on the team. And 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.040 before this, we were talking about the money part. So 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:02.960 let's talk about the money a little bit because it 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.480 is kind of important. Black players didn't really make anywhere 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.840 near what the white players made in the majors. No 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:17.040 black people, anyone that wasn't white, didn't make but a 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.919 fraction of what their white counterparts made in any field. 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:26.439 Even some white people didn't. That's true. There's a brigging 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.360 discrimination in this era. Um So, I kind of suspect 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.960 that probably white people want to watch the white people games, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:34.840 and they probably were able to charge white people more 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.600 for tickets. You probably have a part of it. But yeah, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.199 there there are things, and there's um and I know 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:42.720 this will come up later on, so we'll just talk 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.760 about it now. At Yankee Stadium, there's a section of 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.439 the stadium that actually used to be called the black 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.800 seats because they were the cheap seats because they didn't 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.960 make as much money. So those were the people who 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.679 would go to those seats because it couldn't afford anything 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.960 better for the cheap seats. Yeah, so, I mean it 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.880 gives you kind of an idea. Um, here's here's some 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.119 ideas of money in the era. So we've got in 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.720 the nineteen thirties, two big names, Babe Ruth and Lou Garrett. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.280 They were making between thirty to eighty grand a year 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:25.360 playing pro ball. It is in grand was huge money. 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.040 I'd still be happy to be making thirty grand. That's 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:36.000 saying something grand would be awesome. Yeah. Now you know, 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.040 these guys were the big power hitters, the top dogs. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.000 Even regular white players that we're making good money, I 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.120 mean they were making a better living than a guy 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:51.120 who worked in a factory, easy hands down math. Okay, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.800 if we cross the color line, then a guy who 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.919 was doing a regular job would be making exponentially more 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.200 than anyone who's not white. And the same thing applied 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:08.240 for baseball. The League, the American League, the nationally the 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.640 Pro League, whatever you want to call it. It paid well. 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.879 But the thing it didn't do was allowed black players 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.600 on the field, so these guys had to play for 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.760 less money. Josh did really well. I think Joe was 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.520 mentioning that earlier. He I think he started out right 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.639 around three grandy year. He worked his way up to 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.960 about five a year at the end of his career. Again, 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:32.679 a lot of money in those days, A lot of 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:34.399 money in those days, but that was only what that 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.520 was kind of what he got from basically his normal season. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:39.840 He did a lot of stuff on the side and 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.280 after the season to make money. Oh yeah, those guys 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.560 are playing all over the place, like Mexico, South America. 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.480 Yeahs by the way, were by the way they were, 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.399 they were actually treated better than they were in America. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.919 They were stars. Yeah, there's um. I really regret that. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:59.000 I can't remember the guy's name. There was a guy 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:00.680 who played with Give said, I don't think he was 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:02.760 on the same team, but he played against him before 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.280 and it was in the same era, and he actually 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.399 left the United States for three years to play in 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.680 I think it was Venezuela. For three years. He played 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.680 in Venezuela because it was just the money was so 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.800 much better, the conditions were horrible, and in the end, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.120 that's kind of what drove him back up to the States. 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.080 But you know, he was like, to hell with it. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.640 I can play ball, I'm a hero, and I made 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.080 great cash. Why wouldn't I go? Yeah, they don't. They 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:34.760 don't want to make me play over there in the 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.920 Black People Stadium, you know. Yeah, in case anybody was wondering, 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:44.399 five thousand dollars in nineties equivalent to UH sixty eight thousand, 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.720 two hundred and fifty that's not bad. No, that's not 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.560 a year. It's a very comfortable living. Yeah, and and 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.439 we know he was supplementing his income and also everybody 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.920 else was unemployed. Yes he was, so he was doing great. Yeah, 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.560 he really was. Oh but I guess okay, so in 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.560 fairness that that means that Babe Ruth was Was he 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:07.360 the one that was making eighty thousand dollars a year 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:09.479 in nineteen thirty I think it was. He was got 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:14.399 about eighty grand grand is um one million, ninety two 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:19.080 thousand and forty eight dollars, and compared to what the 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.800 salary said players are getting these days, it's you know, 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.359 that's not even that sific. I mean, there's some of 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.240 the contracts of some of those this is this is 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.239 in the beginning of baseball when it was you know, 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.479 it's kind of coalesced into the sport that it is. 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:36.560 That was the beginning of it, and Babe Ruth is 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.040 the one who started. He's the way he was for 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.040 many minutes. I think nineteen thirty to nineteen. I know, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.359 some sports fanatic is going to tell me I'm wrong, 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:49.399 but I swear it was like nineteen thirty to nineteen 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.840 thirty six, even though his wages steadily went down because 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.320 the economy was just going down the tank he was. 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.199 He was the top earner for that time. And then 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:01.360 I think after that that was when Lou Garrett came 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.960 in and and superseded him as the top earner because 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.400 he shortly thereafter retired. I don't remember exactly when Ruth 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.480 retired at the moment, but you know, that's why Garrett 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.920 was on his way up and started earning a bunch 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:15.520 of money. And then, as you know, he's followed by 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:19.360 guys like Mickey Mantle and all these well known power hitters, 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:21.560 and those were the guys that kind of led the way, 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.640 and each one was just getting a little bit more. 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.800 And that's how we have the situation of several million dollars. 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:35.400 MLB on average pays four million dollars. Take it, I say, no. 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:37.920 Another thing we have today is we have TV, which 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.680 brings a whole new element of money into Yeah, it 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:46.320 really does. So nothing to sniff at for anybody. No, No, 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:48.800 I mean John, like I said, Josh Gibson making good money. 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.119 Um now we uh, we've got a little off track 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.160