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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a current

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Speaker 1: wheeling trust Saratops. Instead is supported by the generous contributions

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Speaker 1: of people like you, our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Thinking Sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand you never know stories of things. We

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, and welcome

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Speaker 1: again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve,

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Speaker 1: of course, joined by my lovely co host. That was good.

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Speaker 1: Wow you doo, we're both were the lovely one all right. Well,

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Speaker 1: if for anybody who couldn't understand them that that one's

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Speaker 1: Joe and that one's Devin, you're pointing thrown people against Steve.

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Speaker 1: I'm not anyway. Here. We as always have a mystery

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Speaker 1: for you, and we actually have kind of a different

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Speaker 1: mystery than we've ever looked into before. Different. It's the

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Speaker 1: scariest one ever because it's a sports mystery. He was

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Speaker 1: talking to somebody today and they said, oh, are you

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Speaker 1: doing this because of the World series. Oh crap, we

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Speaker 1: really should have done this a while ago. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: by the time this comes out, the series will be done. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I guess for anybody who hadn't figed. We hadn't

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Speaker 1: told anybody yet, so now they know we're doing a

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Speaker 1: baseball mystery. Actually this is a good thing because you know,

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Speaker 1: after after the World Series is over, baseball fans will

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Speaker 1: be jonesing for a baseball fix. This will yeah, they'll

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Speaker 1: give him there, a little bit of a fix. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm okay with that, but okay,

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Speaker 1: as long as I can make money off. Well. Our

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Speaker 1: mystery today is did Josh Gibson actually hit a home

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Speaker 1: run out of not in, but out of Yankee Stadium,

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Speaker 1: meaning that he was in Yankee Stadium, but he hit

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Speaker 1: the ball out of Yankee Stadium and traveled outside of

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Speaker 1: the stadium. That is correct, outside of the walls and

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Speaker 1: the the original stadium, the new stadium, the original stadium.

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Speaker 1: Our story takes place in the so definitely not the

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Speaker 1: one that was built in. But the new one was

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine was open, so yeah, definitely not one

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Speaker 1: or else we have an even larger mystery, would Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The reason that the story is really popular among baseball

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Speaker 1: fans is because of the height and distances required to

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Speaker 1: hit a baseball to actually get it literally out of

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Speaker 1: the park. Very few people have done it. I mean

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Speaker 1: in the Yankee Stadium, and the smaller park is not

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Speaker 1: that hard, but yeah, yeah, and and Yankee Stadium. Our

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Speaker 1: entire story is going to focus on that stadium. People

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Speaker 1: have hitted out of the park in other stadiums, and

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Speaker 1: Josh Gibson is known to have done that, but this

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Speaker 1: is all going to focus mainly, and when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about those home runs, it's going to be the stadium.

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Speaker 1: But the reason is that it's that it's such an

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Speaker 1: epic thing is in the old stadium, it was from

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Speaker 1: home plate to the back wall five feet and the

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Speaker 1: wall was a this is a round figure about fifty high,

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Speaker 1: So that's a that's a that's a home run. No, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And just so you know what I gotta tell people

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Speaker 1: right now, I'm not a real baseball guy. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a real sports fan, so some of this stuff I

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Speaker 1: really had to figure out. And for people who don't

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Speaker 1: know or don't have these things just automatically memorized like

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Speaker 1: some of our friends do, here's some numbers for you

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Speaker 1: to kind of put a perspective on it. For our

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Speaker 1: for our foreign listeners who have never even heard of baseball,

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Speaker 1: just like, I'm pretty sure they know from home plate

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Speaker 1: to second base, so all the way across the diamond,

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Speaker 1: you are are looking at a hundred seven ft that's

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Speaker 1: a standard number to go from home plate to the

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Speaker 1: end of the outfield. So of course there's going to

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Speaker 1: be bleachers from there on out, but that's a kind

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Speaker 1: of a variable number, but it's somewhere between two hundred

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Speaker 1: feet feet difference. Yeah, and then after that in Yankee Stadium,

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Speaker 1: it's an additional one hundred and eighty feet to then

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Speaker 1: get outside of the park. So it's when you kind

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Speaker 1: of hear those numbers because I think most of us

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Speaker 1: kind of have an idea of the size of a

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Speaker 1: baseball diamond, but then you don't really think about how

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Speaker 1: many feet that is. And that's why this thing is

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Speaker 1: kind of an epic thing. Yeah. Absolutely, Wait, we're like,

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Speaker 1: what to three minutes into the story already, and I

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Speaker 1: just realized that I screwed up, and I didn't think

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Speaker 1: the person who suggested it I did. You just don't

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Speaker 1: appreciate our listeners. Actually, I do want to say thank

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Speaker 1: you to Jonathan who sent this in. You know this

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Speaker 1: is I I think you both know this that I've

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Speaker 1: been working on this for six months or something like that.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't let it go. I'd always be doing a

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Speaker 1: little bit of work, get sidetracked, but I could never

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Speaker 1: let go. And I think it's just because of the

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Speaker 1: fact that as an American or as an American male

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Speaker 1: kind of hardwired to have a thing for baseball, even

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Speaker 1: American in general. Yeah, I think even like I don't

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Speaker 1: really I like soccer slash football and ending on where

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Speaker 1: you are, but I don't really like sports. But I

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Speaker 1: can sit down and watch a baseball game. I think

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Speaker 1: you can enjoy baseball even if you have no idea

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Speaker 1: what's going on. The basic premise of it is really simple.

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Speaker 1: You can hit the ball and then you run. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then they tried they try to catch the ball,

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Speaker 1: and then they try to tag you out. It's really simple.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's just we're lazy with our sports

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Speaker 1: and that's it's a really easy one that you can

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Speaker 1: just sit down and go and you know, so I

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Speaker 1: would say American romance general, Yeah, And I think, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's why I couldn't ever put this story down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little overboard, especially with the whole one to exhume

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Speaker 1: the body of Josh Gibson, the building the scale replicas

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Speaker 1: of old Yankee Stadium. Listen, I had to do something

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Speaker 1: with all of the toothpicks, Okay, I mean and all

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Speaker 1: that Elmer's glue had to do something. I was going

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Speaker 1: to expire. Jeez, you too. Okay, let's let's actually get

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Speaker 1: on with our story. Yeah, yeah, we probably should un

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Speaker 1: So we'll start at the beginning. Josh Gibson was born

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eleven in Georgia, and then when he was twelve,

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Speaker 1: his family moved to Pittsburgh and that's kind of where

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Speaker 1: he gets his start in baseball. He was he was

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Speaker 1: a big guy. He really was like six to hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty to two hundred pounds depending well, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: it depends on where it is through his career. But

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Speaker 1: he was a big guy, and he was an athlete.

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Speaker 1: He was good at every sport, but he was good

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Speaker 1: or at baseball. He was good at baseball or he

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Speaker 1: preferred baseball. Yeah, well obviously we know which one he

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Speaker 1: went after, um, But no, he he was. He was

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Speaker 1: the guy who really was just good and everything he did.

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Speaker 1: As we know, he liked baseball the most, so he

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Speaker 1: was known to hang out at sand lawns and participate

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Speaker 1: in just about any pickup game he could. He Uh,

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Speaker 1: he was a catcher, which is not an easy position

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Speaker 1: in my mind to play, because you know, you gotta squad,

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Speaker 1: you gotta catch nine if you're bigger. Probably that is

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Speaker 1: actually one of the things that worked in his favorites

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Speaker 1: because he was such a big guy. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of abuse and he was good at taking it all.

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Speaker 1: That squatt intrough the game. That would get old real fast,

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Speaker 1: but that's why baseball players have such cute butts. That

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Speaker 1: it is. But I think Gibson also played some outfield

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Speaker 1: positions to on occasion he did. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: a we're going to put you in a position so

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Speaker 1: we can put you in the game kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Is only what it was. They would put him in,

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Speaker 1: say left field for a game. He was not just

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Speaker 1: a good hitter. He was a good thrower catcher. No,

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Speaker 1: he was. He was definitely a fantastic hitter. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the guy wailed on baseballs, as we're going to talk about. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He is often referred to as the quote unquote black

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Speaker 1: Babe Ruth, and he would make This is a term

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Speaker 1: that was around in the thirties Ruthian hits, although I

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Speaker 1: really like it better when you come across where people

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Speaker 1: say that Babe Ruth was the white Josh Gibson, he

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Speaker 1: made Gibson Gibsonian hits, which you actually do. See. This

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Speaker 1: is probably the point where we should stop real fast

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Speaker 1: and let everybody know. Story takes place in the thirties

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Speaker 1: and the forties. There was language around race that was

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Speaker 1: used at that time that it's not what I would use,

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Speaker 1: but it is the name of things. We're just going

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Speaker 1: to call things the things they were called. We're going

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Speaker 1: to use the name of things. So be prepared if

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Speaker 1: if that kind of stuff you or you you take

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Speaker 1: offense to it, I apologize. Can't change history. Sadly, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna give it away. Here we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about the Negro League, the National Negro League, Negro League,

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Speaker 1: which was, by the way, not a racial epithet in

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Speaker 1: those days. It still really isn't. It's just it was

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Speaker 1: the league for black players. Yeah, it was. It was

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Speaker 1: the word that preceded black. So yeah, so here we go,

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Speaker 1: Here we go. As I said before, Josh played in

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Speaker 1: a lot of sand lot games, and that got the

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Speaker 1: his performance of those games got the attention of a

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Speaker 1: guy by the name of Composey, who was the manager

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Speaker 1: for a local team, which was the Homestead Grays in

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Speaker 1: that's when they picked him up. At the time, the

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Speaker 1: Grays were not part of the National Negro League. They

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Speaker 1: were an independent team. Eventually they would join the league,

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Speaker 1: but at that time they were and that it'll makes

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Speaker 1: sense why later baseball was a less structured in those days.

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Speaker 1: It was very little structure. It was kind of fly

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Speaker 1: by the seat of your pants. Yeah, well, yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: you know, let's just explain how this works. So we

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Speaker 1: all know today there's the major leagues, there's the minor

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Speaker 1: leagues and things like peewee in high school, and all

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Speaker 1: the farm leagues. Yes, and there's some farm leagues. Well

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Speaker 1: that all of that wasn't nearly as structured at the time.

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Speaker 1: And so what happened is there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: these local teams. There were just guys that like to

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Speaker 1: play baseball and they would get together and they would

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Speaker 1: be a team and they would travel to play a

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Speaker 1: guys in another city who would like to play baseball.

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Speaker 1: And there was no money in it. They were playing

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Speaker 1: not in stadiums they were playing in the local ballpark

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Speaker 1: or possibly the sand lot farm leagues. Yeah, we had

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Speaker 1: one in Portland growing up. I don't think they were

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Speaker 1: quite farm league minor minor, way below minor guys who

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Speaker 1: would actually legitimately fall running from base to base. But

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Speaker 1: it was it was really fun to watch, so you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, these are just teeny little things and most

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Speaker 1: of like I said, most of these guys didn't get paid. Luckily,

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Speaker 1: for the Homestead Grays, they actually did get paid, and

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that was really attractive to

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Speaker 1: Josh to join the team, especially in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 1: when there weren't any jobs. Yeah. Yeah, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go into some of the money stuff in

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Speaker 1: a bit as to you know, but it was just

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Speaker 1: it was a much better career in terms of money

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Speaker 1: than a regular job. Actually he made good money. Yeah

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Speaker 1: he made Yeah, he really did for the time for

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Speaker 1: the nineties. Yeah. But let's uh, I want to tell

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Speaker 1: a story because I really really liked this story because

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Speaker 1: I really find it funny. And that is the story

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Speaker 1: of how Josh Gibson joined the Grays. So the story goes,

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Speaker 1: the Grays were playing the Kansas City Monarchs, who at

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Speaker 1: that time it's nineteen thirty, they were part they were

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Speaker 1: in the National Negro League, and they were one of

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Speaker 1: the top teams that year. I did. I had to

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Speaker 1: look it up again earlier. So it's just making sure

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Speaker 1: they later on they weren't. The teams would jump in

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Speaker 1: and out of leagues or jump from one league to

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Speaker 1: the next, so it gets a little confusing at times.

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Speaker 1: So they're in the league, they're a top team, the Monarchs.

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Speaker 1: The Monarchs, No, we're talking, Yes, this is the grades

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Speaker 1: are not they're not in league. So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: an exhibition game. Okay, look how good we are. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is a night game, right. Well, that's the thing

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Speaker 1: is that, according to the story, the Monarchs had a

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Speaker 1: well to do sponsor who bought them their own mobile lights.

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Speaker 1: So it was a night game. Okay, well but they're

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty lights. They run on generators. They're not all

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Speaker 1: that great, but it allows a bunch of people to

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Speaker 1: come in the evening and watch the game, which means

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Speaker 1: that you can make some money. So that's why they

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Speaker 1: did it. Problem was the lights were good enough that

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Speaker 1: the picture and the catcher could see each other to

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Speaker 1: read signals. If you don't know this, in baseball, the

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Speaker 1: catcher does hand signals to the picture to tell him

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Speaker 1: what kind of pitch to throw. Really simple process, except

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Speaker 1: that if you can't see what he's doing, you have

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Speaker 1: no idea what kind of ball to throw, or to catch,

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Speaker 1: or what you're going to catch exactly. That's a very

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Speaker 1: good point too, because that comes into play here. So

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Speaker 1: we've got two guys who were said to have been

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Speaker 1: playing we have I love the names that these guys get.

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Speaker 1: The picture was Smokey Joe Williams and the catcher was

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Speaker 1: Buck you Ing, and they evidently, according to the story,

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Speaker 1: crossed up their signs. So it was to only do

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Speaker 1: two signs or two pitches. Yes, it was a fastball

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Speaker 1: and a curveball. That was all they were gonna do.

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Speaker 1: A couple innings in somebody switches it up, wrong kind

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Speaker 1: of ball gets thrown. Buck you Ing, who is the catcher,

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Speaker 1: catches the ball bear and died, which you have done,

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Speaker 1: so fun splits his hand open. Josh Gibson just happens

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Speaker 1: to be in the stands by the by the dugout,

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Speaker 1: eating a hot dog and watching the game and compose

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Speaker 1: he sees him, recognizes him, pulls him out of the stands,

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Speaker 1: and puts him into the game to relieve Youwing for

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Speaker 1: the rest of the game, and then from there hires him.

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Speaker 1: It is if that was really the way it went,

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Speaker 1: it's actually not how it went. I love that story,

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Speaker 1: and actually it's you see a bunch of things where

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Speaker 1: Josh always laughed at this retelling of how he joined

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Speaker 1: the team. Yeah, I think that it's partly true, though, right,

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Speaker 1: a portion of it is. Yes, the first game that

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Speaker 1: he played for the Grays, it wasn't actually an eating game.

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Speaker 1: It was an afternoon game, and it wasn't against the Monarchs.

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Speaker 1: It was against another team, which was a white semi

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Speaker 1: pro team. Smokey Joe wasn't The picture was actually an

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Speaker 1: the guy named again love this name, Charles Lefty Williams. Well,

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Speaker 1: they got the last name right, they did. Um Ewing

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Speaker 1: did actually split a finger open, and they did need

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Speaker 1: somebody to relieve him. But the deal was Posey had

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Speaker 1: already told Josh he was going to bring him on

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Speaker 1: the team and that he should be ready whenever he

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Speaker 1: needed him to come play. So what happens is Ewing

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Speaker 1: splits his finger, Josh is not in the stands. He's

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Speaker 1: at another game that day. He's playing for the Crawford Giants.

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Speaker 1: They put one of the Grays, put one of their

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Speaker 1: players at a cab, send him over to the Giants game.

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Speaker 1: He gets Josh, Josh and he get back in the

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Speaker 1: cab and go back to the Grays game, where he

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Speaker 1: then relieves you Ing and then is on the team.

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Speaker 1: But he doesn't immediately take the position. He slowly works

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Speaker 1: into the position as youwing slowly works towards retirement. But

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Speaker 1: they said they didn't stop the whole game while the

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Speaker 1: guy went got Josh. No. I think they had a

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Speaker 1: relief catcher hopeless, or it was the end of the

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Speaker 1: inning and they were at bat. Maybe that they put

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Speaker 1: that's a great point, because you know, depending on the

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Speaker 1: game and inning can take time, and who knows how

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Speaker 1: far a part those ball fields were. I didn't actually

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Speaker 1: think to look, and I don't know that I can

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Speaker 1: find that anymore. You know, maybe it was the seventh

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Speaker 1: inning stretch, could be, you ever know, it's a good point.

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Speaker 1: I didn't thought about that. It turns out I know

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Speaker 1: some things about baseball. I guess you do. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: few things more than I do. What's that thing that

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Speaker 1: they hold in their hands, the bat or the ball,

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Speaker 1: that's it. That's it. Okay, they hold the narrow end right, Okay, good, good,

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm glad I got that right. Um okay?

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Speaker 1: Um So, as So, that's like I said, that's the

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Speaker 1: real story of how Josh got on the team. And

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Speaker 1: before this, we were talking about the money part. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the money a little bit because it

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Speaker 1: is kind of important. Black players didn't really make anywhere

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Speaker 1: near what the white players made in the majors. No

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Speaker 1: black people, anyone that wasn't white, didn't make but a

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Speaker 1: fraction of what their white counterparts made in any field.

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Speaker 1: Even some white people didn't. That's true. There's a brigging

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Speaker 1: discrimination in this era. Um So, I kind of suspect

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Speaker 1: that probably white people want to watch the white people games,

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Speaker 1: and they probably were able to charge white people more

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Speaker 1: for tickets. You probably have a part of it. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: there there are things, and there's um and I know

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Speaker 1: this will come up later on, so we'll just talk

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Speaker 1: about it now. At Yankee Stadium, there's a section of

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Speaker 1: the stadium that actually used to be called the black

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Speaker 1: seats because they were the cheap seats because they didn't

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Speaker 1: make as much money. So those were the people who

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Speaker 1: would go to those seats because it couldn't afford anything

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Speaker 1: better for the cheap seats. Yeah, so, I mean it

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Speaker 1: gives you kind of an idea. Um, here's here's some

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Speaker 1: ideas of money in the era. So we've got in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, two big names, Babe Ruth and Lou Garrett.

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Speaker 1: They were making between thirty to eighty grand a year

320
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Speaker 1: playing pro ball. It is in grand was huge money.

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Speaker 1: I'd still be happy to be making thirty grand. That's

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Speaker 1: saying something grand would be awesome. Yeah. Now you know,

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Speaker 1: these guys were the big power hitters, the top dogs.

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Speaker 1: Even regular white players that we're making good money, I

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Speaker 1: mean they were making a better living than a guy

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Speaker 1: who worked in a factory, easy hands down math. Okay,

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Speaker 1: if we cross the color line, then a guy who

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Speaker 1: was doing a regular job would be making exponentially more

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Speaker 1: than anyone who's not white. And the same thing applied

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Speaker 1: for baseball. The League, the American League, the nationally the

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Speaker 1: Pro League, whatever you want to call it. It paid well.

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Speaker 1: But the thing it didn't do was allowed black players

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Speaker 1: on the field, so these guys had to play for

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Speaker 1: less money. Josh did really well. I think Joe was

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Speaker 1: mentioning that earlier. He I think he started out right

336
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 1: around three grandy year. He worked his way up to

337
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 1: about five a year at the end of his career. Again,

338
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 1: a lot of money in those days, A lot of

339
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 1: money in those days, but that was only what that

340
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: was kind of what he got from basically his normal season.

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Speaker 1: He did a lot of stuff on the side and

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00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: after the season to make money. Oh yeah, those guys

343
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Speaker 1: are playing all over the place, like Mexico, South America.

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Speaker 1: Yeahs by the way, were by the way they were,

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Speaker 1: they were actually treated better than they were in America.

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Speaker 1: They were stars. Yeah, there's um. I really regret that.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the guy's name. There was a guy

348
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: who played with Give said, I don't think he was

349
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 1: on the same team, but he played against him before

350
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Speaker 1: and it was in the same era, and he actually

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00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: left the United States for three years to play in

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Speaker 1: I think it was Venezuela. For three years. He played

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Speaker 1: in Venezuela because it was just the money was so

354
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: much better, the conditions were horrible, and in the end,

355
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Speaker 1: that's kind of what drove him back up to the States.

356
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Speaker 1: But you know, he was like, to hell with it.

357
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Speaker 1: I can play ball, I'm a hero, and I made

358
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Speaker 1: great cash. Why wouldn't I go? Yeah, they don't. They

359
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: don't want to make me play over there in the

360
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 1: Black People Stadium, you know. Yeah, in case anybody was wondering,

361
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars in nineties equivalent to UH sixty eight thousand,

362
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty that's not bad. No, that's not

363
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Speaker 1: a year. It's a very comfortable living. Yeah, and and

364
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 1: we know he was supplementing his income and also everybody

365
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: else was unemployed. Yes he was, so he was doing great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he really was. Oh but I guess okay, so in

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Speaker 1: fairness that that means that Babe Ruth was Was he

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Speaker 1: the one that was making eighty thousand dollars a year

369
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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty I think it was. He was got

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Speaker 1: about eighty grand grand is um one million, ninety two

371
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 1: thousand and forty eight dollars, and compared to what the

372
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: salary said players are getting these days, it's you know,

373
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Speaker 1: that's not even that sific. I mean, there's some of

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Speaker 1: the contracts of some of those this is this is

375
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Speaker 1: in the beginning of baseball when it was you know,

376
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 1: it's kind of coalesced into the sport that it is.

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00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: That was the beginning of it, and Babe Ruth is

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Speaker 1: the one who started. He's the way he was for

379
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Speaker 1: many minutes. I think nineteen thirty to nineteen. I know,

380
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: some sports fanatic is going to tell me I'm wrong,

381
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: but I swear it was like nineteen thirty to nineteen

382
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: thirty six, even though his wages steadily went down because

383
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: the economy was just going down the tank he was.

384
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: He was the top earner for that time. And then

385
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: I think after that that was when Lou Garrett came

386
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: in and and superseded him as the top earner because

387
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: he shortly thereafter retired. I don't remember exactly when Ruth

388
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: retired at the moment, but you know, that's why Garrett

389
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: was on his way up and started earning a bunch

390
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: of money. And then, as you know, he's followed by

391
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,360
Speaker 1: guys like Mickey Mantle and all these well known power hitters,

392
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Speaker 1: and those were the guys that kind of led the way,

393
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: and each one was just getting a little bit more.

394
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: And that's how we have the situation of several million dollars.

395
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 1: MLB on average pays four million dollars. Take it, I say, no.

396
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: Another thing we have today is we have TV, which

397
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: brings a whole new element of money into Yeah, it

398
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: really does. So nothing to sniff at for anybody. No, No,

399
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean John, like I said, Josh Gibson making good money.

400
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: Um now we uh, we've got a little off track

401
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: history though, Yeah, informs what's about to happen, really does.

402
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: It really kind of informs a lot of it. Because

403
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: the mystery or the legend is that either in nine

404
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: thirty or in nineteen thirty four, Josh Gibson hits the

405
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: ball during a game out of Yankee Stadium. That is

406
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: that that right there. It's either he did or he didn't.

407
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,239
Speaker 1: So our theories are pretty easy to keep straight, by

408
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: the way. That's uh so, So Josh, apparently they did

409
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: allow the black teams to use the Yankee stadiums to play,

410
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: and but they were playing each other, right they were, Yes,

411
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: yeah it was. There was a lot of segregation happening

412
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah, we have things like Jim Crow

413
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: stuff like that, a lot of segregation. So we have

414
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: we have the Yankees, the New York Yankees, and they

415
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: were the white team. Then we had the New York

416
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: Black Yankees. Literally that was anybody that wasn't white that

417
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: was good enough to play for that team, that's the

418
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: team they were playing on. So that's who like the

419
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: Homestead Grays would have played. So I wonder what the

420
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: turnout for that. I mean, because I know that black

421
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: people could go to white games, I wonder how many

422
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: white people went to black games. You know, I actually

423
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: get the feeling that there was a fair number people

424
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: who liked baseball would go and because it's a National

425
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: Negro League game, or you know, maybe it's just a

426
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: couple of black teams, it's cheaper to go. Just gonna

427
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: say about it's way cheaper to go, cheaper to go

428
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: to Probably the quality of baseball is not really less

429
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: at all. No, No, these guys were better. They were prose.

430
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: They were absolutely prose. And that was the That's the one,

431
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: the one thing for baseball that I really it's to

432
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: me it's the biggest smear. And I know that there's

433
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: a lot of bad things that happened in baseball, but

434
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: to me, that's one of the big smears is that

435
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: baseball could have been probably so much better if it

436
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: had just crossed the race line about a decade before

437
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: it actually did. Let's be fair not to politicize the issue,

438
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: but a lot lot of things could have been way

439
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: better cross the race barriers. Well, see what that's the

440
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: problem is that there's as I did the reading, I

441
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: actually read not only the Internet, but I got into

442
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: a number of books. And a lot of these guys

443
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 1: would get approached by the owners and managers of white

444
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: teams and they would say, would you come play with us?

445
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: And this is you know, would you accept what? Would

446
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: you accept? And pay? And they'd have these conversations, but

447
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: they were such a regular thing. The black players just

448
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: didn't care anymore because everybody would make these offers and

449
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: say we're gonna do it and then walk up to

450
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: the line and chicken out. I never do it, And

451
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: so these guys just, you know, they just didn't care. Listen,

452
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: stub bothered me. I gotta go play ball is what

453
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: I want to do. But here's here's a daily enough.

454
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: If you if you say the New York Yankees and

455
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: you're an all white team, and you and you do

456
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: pull the trigger and you get Josh Gibson in a

457
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: few are good black players on your team and your

458
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: team is kicking, But how can how can a Yankees

459
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: fan not like that? You know, really, I'm sure there

460
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: were some people who say, this is still the nineteen thirties,

461
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: there's still some massive segregation. Jim Crow was in effect. Well,

462
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: Jim Crow was not in effect in New York though. No,

463
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: that's true, but it it it precluded a certain behavior

464
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: and view. You know that. It's kind of like cutting up.

465
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: We don't have time to get into all. I'm just saying.

466
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: If you're a Yankees fan and you and you don't

467
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: want your team winning all the time and you'd rather

468
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: have an all white team, well, okay, we're cutting off

469
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: your nose to spite your own face, I guess. But well, okay,

470
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: that's their business. It is so for all of our

471
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 1: listeners that aren't American and don't understand the weird history

472
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: that we have with race. You do, Yeah, let's see

473
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: we go through to the theories. Yeah's theories theories here.

474
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: I know I've said this a couple of times, but

475
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: I'll say it again. Josh Gibson was a phenomenal baseball player,

476
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 1: and no, I actually I'm really impressed, but it was.

477
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: It was some pretty impressive stats. So we're we're in

478
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 1: doing now. We're totally in the he did it theory.

479
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: So we're on theory number one. Josh Gibson totally did it.

480
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: He knocked it out of the park. He played professional

481
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: ball between nineteen thirty to ninety six, and he actually

482
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: all but five of those years he played for the

483
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: Homestead Grays, so he was at one team. He played

484
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: for two teams. Um, this is not counting the games

485
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: that he played out of the country or any kind

486
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: of exhibition games that he might have done. You know,

487
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: but some of those little rickey ink places out of

488
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: the country, I'm sure he knocked out of the park

489
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, he really did. We got some

490
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: We got some of those stories too. This is the thing.

491
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: He started playing in nineteen thirty. He was eighteen years old,

492
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: so he was at that almost that peak of physical development,

493
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, I mean guys between eighteen to twenty two,

494
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: that's kind of when they hit their strongest physically, and

495
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: so he was. He was there at the right time.

496
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: If you go to the Baseball Hall of Fame, which

497
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: I did their website anyway, Uh, he was inducted into

498
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: the Fame and Baseball Hall of Fame of nineteen seventy two.

499
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: You're gonna see that he's really good with the bat,

500
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: as we talked about. So we're gonna give some baseball

501
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: stats and I will explain them, I promise, because they

502
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: if you don't understand them, they are very confusing. We have,

503
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: according to the Baseball Hall of Fame, UH, the number

504
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: of one thousand, eight hundred and twenty five. That is

505
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: the number of times that Josh Gibson was at bat.

506
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: He had six hundred and thirty eight hits out of that,

507
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: which means that he had a batting average of three fifty.

508
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: And the batting average is the number of hits divided

509
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: by the number of times that he was at bat,

510
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: so of the time he hit u There is another

511
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: number called a slugging percentage. Josh's slugging percentage was I'm

512
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: not going to go into the actual math of that,

513
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a calculation of number of hits

514
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: and how many of them were a single, a double,

515
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: a triple, and homer's and it it actually it's it

516
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: gives a better determination of how good a player is

517
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: when they're in the hot seat, because if nobody's on

518
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: the basis doesn't really matter, but if the bases are loaded,

519
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: that's really important. So there's there's a lot of value

520
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: in that kind of stat and baseball, I gotta say

521
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: is is one of the most statistically and heavy every

522
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: Trust me, there is a whole bunch of stats we

523
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: could go through and we're not really into this stuff. Yeah.

524
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: I tried. Actually as a kid, I try. I played

525
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: t ball. I tried to play ball. I was the

526
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: kids spacing off in the outfield because I was just

527
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: kind of bored. I tried collecting baseball cards, but I

528
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: couldn't ever figure the stats out and keep them all

529
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: in my head, so I couldn't talk to jargon with kids.

530
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: But you're right, there are people who just dig in

531
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: and they just know all these numbers and they make

532
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: total sense. One of one of my closest oldest friends

533
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: is that way. She's a die hard Boston Red Sox fan,

534
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: and during all baseball season, pre and postseason, anytime anybody's

535
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: playing baseball, her Instagram feed is literally just pictures of

536
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: her keeping score and stats. I don't understand any of it.

537
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: I've never been into baseball that much. Back when we

538
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: had a team here in town. I used to enjoy

539
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: going out of the beer garden and watching the Beavers play,

540
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: and you know, drinking beer with the Rockies. I'm saying,

541
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: Myra Newdeleman. If anybody listening remembers Myra Newdleman, please let

542
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: me know, because like I need to know, I'm not

543
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: the only one. You had, no God, No, okay, okay,

544
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: so can you what a yeah? His batting average means

545
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: really okay, Josh batted a three really good, and I

546
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: mean that's a really good batting average. Babe Ruth who

547
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, he's the guy that is kind of that

548
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: that's that golden standard because he always hit Homer's though

549
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: he actually wasn't that good of a batter he hit.

550
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: His lifetime average was a three forty two. If we

551
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: look at the highest ranked player of his name is Jose.

552
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to do my best on it. I listened

553
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: to it, but I just don't know quite it's Altuve.

554
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: I want to say, is how you pronounce his name?

555
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: That maybe it? Anyway, he was the top rank hitter

556
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: and he hit a three one Okay, I'm sorry. Can

557
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: you tell me? Do you want to be higher? Or lower,

558
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: higher the better. So if you if you're so three

559
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: fifties better than three two. The higher the number, the

560
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: more times you're hitting the ball. So I mean, if

561
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: you bat at a five hundred, that means you hit

562
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: one of every two balls that was thrown at you. Okay, yeah,

563
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Which is are you hit a ball,

564
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: not one out, but you hit a ball every time

565
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: you're at half the time you were bad? Yes? Yeah.

566
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: And then if you're batting at thousand you've probably heard

567
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: that term before, that means you know, you're hitting the

568
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: ball every every time. You're a bad every single time,

569
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: every single time. So he was better than he's better

570
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: than almost he's better than anybody, right, Well, I mean

571
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: there's people that have better records, but that was really good.

572
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: But there's there's a couple of things you need to know.

573
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: First of which, the records aren't complete. And these numbers

574
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: that his his record or his batting averages based on

575
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: those are based on regulation games only, and I'll explain

576
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: that a little bit here. So for the first part

577
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: of the records, the the New Yor leagues were really

578
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: bad about keeping records. I don't know why or what

579
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: caused that. But their records were really spotty and shoddy,

580
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: and maybe it's because nobody you know, wanted to keep

581
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: them because they didn't. I don't know. It might be

582
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: that people just didn't feel like it was all that important, Yeah,

583
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: because they weren't going to move up to the majors. Yeah,

584
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: and so the records aren't kept. The second part of

585
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: what I talked about there, which is the regulation games,

586
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: that's actually really important. We've talked about the fact that

587
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: players went south of the border to play games in

588
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: the off season too. They continued to train, and like

589
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: we talked about, they got paid really well. Those games

590
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: are going to be counted. Teams would also go, uh,

591
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: they would do exhibition games. They would do what was

592
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: called Barnes storming, which is just basically driving around in

593
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: finding baseball fields and playing games. And they're completely off

594
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: the books. What kind of a bus you know, It's

595
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: funny they didn't have a bus at first. They eventually

596
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 1: did get a bus, but there's stories about the fact

597
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: that they had two cars that all of the guys

598
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: were crammed in and all of their gear was tied

599
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: to the outside of it. So the entire team is

600
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: in two cars and there they would literally race from

601
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: place to place. This is a great story. So it's

602
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. They're dirt roads, and of course they're rutted

603
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: like you wouldn't believe, two giant ruts. And these guys

604
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: are going so fast that the guy in the front

605
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: has thrown so much dust that the guy in the

606
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: rear can't see, and he drives off the road. They

607
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: get the car upright because of course it tips over,

608
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: but they're packed in like sardines, so nobody gets hurt.

609
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: They pick up the car, they get it back on

610
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: the road. They're going down the road. About two miles later,

611
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: they find a car in the ditch and they think

612
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: that poor sod, And then they get out and they

613
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: realize it's the other car that they were following, which

614
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: had blown a tire, and of course then did the

615
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: same thing, hit the groove, you know, flipped it off

616
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: and dropped it onto the side of the road. Luckily,

617
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: got a big, a bunch of big strong guys there

618
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: to pick the car up and put it back home. Yeah,

619
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: and of course all their crap, all their gears strapped

620
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: to the outside of the car, so they had to

621
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: go around and pick up all their stuff and put

622
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: it back together. But I think, indeed, I think it was.

623
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: I want to say thirty four is when the Gray's

624
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: got a bus and there, and that's when you know,

625
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: there's all all kinds of hijinks in stories from any

626
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: team of what happens on the bus. And I read

627
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: a lot of great stories that I will I will

628
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: go into because they really don't count into what we're

629
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: talking about. It's really interesting and really really fun to read.

630
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so yeah, movie, a movie must be made, Hollywood,

631
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: get on that. Yes, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I want you in

632
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: that movie. And I don't so Okay, So they a

633
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: lot of the stats weren't counted for his batting average,

634
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: So he's the general feeling that he was. He was

635
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: ch he was better than he was better than what

636
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: was recorded. Then what was it recorded in official games,

637
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: in the records that were left over. Well, it's hard

638
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: to say though, because I mean, you know, I mean

639
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: he might have done more poorly, you know, South of

640
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: the Border and stuff like that. Since all this stuff

641
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: is that, it's really hard to say precisely what his

642
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 1: stats are. Yeah, well, I do know that he was

643
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: a higher paid player because he was better at that

644
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: and he was more of a consistent player, because like,

645
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: let's we're going to talk about what is considered the

646
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: quote unquote great of the time, which is Babe Ruth

647
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: Bruce struck out so much and he was so notorious

648
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: for his strikeouts. It's that swing and a miss. We've

649
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: all done this when we were kids. You know that

650
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: that giant arcing swing and you totally miss. Gibson wasn't

651
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: like that. He didn't have this crazy wild swing. Baseball

652
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: players when they swing, it's from their arms and their

653
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: shoulders through their torso and then they rotate their hips

654
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: and they use their legs and that's how they get

655
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: that giant, wide swing which gets all the power. Gibson

656
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: didn't move his legs, which meant that he had all

657
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: of it was from his arms and his shoulders and

658
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: partially his torso. So he had a hell of a

659
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: lot more control in where he put the bat. That's

660
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: why I think that his numbers are better than what

661
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: we have recorded at the Hall of Fame. At the

662
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: very least, they're not worse, the very least about the same,

663
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: much better. Yes, he was a good player. Yeah, no,

664
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: So okay, get off soapbox. Here's here's a great example

665
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: for he was better than what the official records have.

666
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: He played in ninety three. He played for the Pittsburgh Crawfords. Somehow,

667
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: somebody at the Pittsburgh Crawfords did an amazing job of

668
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: record keeping. So we have the nineteen thirty three season records,

669
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: even though they don't count towards the Hall of Fame.

670
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: I think they do. But this is a solid year's

671
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: worth of numbers rather than everything else, which is kind

672
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: of hit and miss, you know, part seasons here, and

673
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: they're not all the James. In thirty three with the Crawfords,

674
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: Josh played a hundred thirty seven games and had five

675
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: hundred batted five twelve times. He hit two hundred thirty

676
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: nine times. Fifty five of those were home runs, so

677
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: that gives him a botting average of four hundred sixty seven.

678
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's an amazing number. And we'll talk about

679
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: the home runs, beca is that's what the story is about.

680
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: We've got a number of home run stories. So in Monison, Pennsylvania,

681
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 1: Hope I pronounced that right, he hit a home run

682
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: that was measured at five twelve ft in Kamenski Park,

683
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: which is in Chicago. He hit a ball hard enough

684
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: that it hit a loudspeaker that was at the edge

685
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: of the field. That loudspeaker, by the way, was eight

686
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: feet up and he hit it so hard that the

687
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: ball lodged in the loudspeaker um, which is really hard

688
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: hit and it was it was how far was it

689
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: from home plate? That was fo that was still going strong? Yeah, yeah,

690
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: left and it really did. Uh. It is first season

691
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: at Yankee Stadium against the Black Yankees. He hit a

692
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: ball which went into the bullpen, which is over five

693
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: feet from the home plate because the bullpen is at

694
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: was at the at that stage atam was at the

695
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: back of the stadium and he was playing. This is

696
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: one of his off season games. He was playing in

697
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: uh San Juan and Puerto Rico. He hit a home

698
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: run that cleared not only the fence of the ballpark

699
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: that he was in, but it also cleared the fence

700
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: of the prison that was next door to the ballpark. Yeah,

701
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: so the prisoners got a free base, but which was

702
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: five So that's still you know, this doesn't this doesn't

703
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 1: really established that he knocked it out of the park

704
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: at Yankee because that was five ft, right, it was

705
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: five feet, and then it would have had to actually

706
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: have been more than that because it would have had

707
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: to go up in an arc clear the wall. It

708
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: would beyond the least at the top of its arc

709
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: by the ftmark. Yes, if not higher, had to have

710
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: been far far, which means it would have gone much

711
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: much farther than that five feet had it cleared the wall.

712
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. So he did hit a lot really hard,

713
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: long far, but nowhere near the what seven hundred feet

714
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Well, there are some hits that

715
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: potentially could have, but again it's the records. He did this.

716
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: A lot of this stuff was in ball fields, literally

717
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: a ball field and they couldn't find the ball, or

718
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: it hit a building that was across the street, or

719
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And while people who will sit down

720
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: and do the math have been able to do that

721
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: math on some great hits, Josh Gibson's hits weren't recorded,

722
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: so we don't know if it hits such and such

723
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: hotel across the street on the third floor or anything

724
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: like that. We don't have that. Then make the calculation

725
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: of how far his he could have gone. Yeah, no,

726
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: but I know and Yankee, I know he did hit

727
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: the far wall. He did hit that a considerable distance. Yeah, that'stmark.

728
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: But Joe is already very happily, almost gleefully by the

729
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: look in his eye, drawing us into the second theory,

730
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: which is that he didn't do it. The aunecdotal evidence

731
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: points out, as Joe said that he might not have

732
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: been able to do it. Um, I did some back

733
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: of the envelope math, which is where I got the

734
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: five eighty foot number, because I literally I found old

735
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: plans for the Yankee Stadium in that era, because the

736
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: stadium kept getting changed over time, did add more and

737
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: more to it, but it was foot based on that,

738
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: and again, like we talked about in the beginning, I

739
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: believe the wall was about fifty ft high. There's a

740
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: lot of the accounts of Josh's hits that say that

741
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: he wasn't the kind of player that would hit a

742
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: high arching ball. He actually hit him low and hard.

743
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: So like that one where he hit the loudspeaker, it

744
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: was only eight foot up, so theoretically maybe it was

745
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: still climbing, but at four dred some odd feet it

746
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna go much higher. Now I think it was

747
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: probably already the down on the downward side of the ark.

748
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: I'm guessing yeah, it's quite possible, you know. And the

749
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: thing about Yankee Stadium, which is referred to it's called

750
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: the House that Ruth built after Babe Ruth um he

751
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: tried to hit it out of the park. He never

752
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: actually did. Uh. There is a game in nineteen thirty

753
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: where Babe Ruth himself hit a five and thirty five

754
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: footer and it went into the stands, into the right

755
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: center field bleachers is where it landed the black seats. Yes,

756
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: that is exactly where it hit. We have records of

757
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: because these are when the records are really good. We

758
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: are in our our white pro league, and actually this

759
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: is in the fifties, so it wasn't as bad but

760
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: the segregation. But Mickey Mantle, he was one that everybody

761
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: expected to take it out of Yankee Stadium. And there

762
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: were three games where they thought he was going to

763
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: do it. There's nineteen fifty five, nineteen fifty six, and

764
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. And by the way, the one in

765
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: sixty three would have made it out of the park.

766
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it would have. Yeah, I just I don't.

767
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: I'm we're out of the part of where I know things. Okay,

768
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: let me uh, let me give you a kind of

769
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: a description of what's going on here with this. So

770
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: the nineteen hit Winn in the bleachers in center field.

771
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: So that's easy enough to understand. Yankee Stadium had a

772
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 1: brass facade around the top of the bleachers. The bleachers

773
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: are several stories, you know, several rows high. Yeah, and

774
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: that at the very top of that, there's a roof

775
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: that covers the top row of the bleachers, and then

776
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: on front of that, which is kind of some arcs

777
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: with fake pillar looking things on him. His fifty six

778
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 1: and his sixty three hits hit the facade the top

779
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: it would have gone over. Had it not hit the

780
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: facade inches to the left of the or even feet

781
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 1: to the other direction, it would have gone past over

782
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: center field and they would have gone out of the park.

783
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: Ye sixty three one actually like there was a huge

784
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: gap in center field and then on the on the

785
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: right hand side, if you know, hit that facade, If

786
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: if it had just been i don't know, five ft

787
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: to the left just a little bit, it would have

788
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: totally cleared the wall it would have been, and you

789
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 1: know that. What's What's so the thing that I bring

790
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: this one up for is that when we talk about

791
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: him hitting the facade, the distance from home plate, it's

792
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: only four feet, So it's not nearly as far as

793
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: what we've been talking about, which is an additional hundred naighty.

794
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: But that facade was where the ball hit. It was

795
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: a hundred eighteen feet above the plane of the ball field.

796
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: That's not nothing. According to according to witnesses, the ball

797
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: was still an upper dark. Yes, it's still rising, which

798
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: means that that ball had the potential to go six

799
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: and a half to seven hundred feet. And there's all

800
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: these these stories and all these places where these people

801
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: have figured out using the math based on where they

802
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: can tell that these greats, some of these greats Mantle

803
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: and Ruth and other end garret, where they've hit these

804
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: six seven, almost eight hundred foot home runs had it

805
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: not hit something on its way based on his trajectory.

806
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: So the point is there's a lot of majorly huge

807
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: hits in that stadium, and none of them seem to

808
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: have actually made it out. Very few, I think just

809
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: a female it out during batting practice that was about it.

810
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: It was Ruth and Mantle are both known to have

811
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: actually got it out of the park in batting practice,

812
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 1: and it's it's potential, it's possible that maybe Josh Gibson

813
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: did the same thing that people saw him do it

814
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: in batting practice, and then the story evolved to he

815
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: did it during a game. By the way, by the way,

816
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: if you if you do it in batting practice, it's

817
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: it's you know, as far as I'm concerned, just as awesome. Yeah.

818
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: Here's uh, here's something that people might remember. I've said

819
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: once or twice, is that the story is that Josh

820
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: did this either in nineteen thirty or nineteen thirty four.

821
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: Turns out we can verify that it didn't happen in

822
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: ninety four. Uh. The version of nineteen thirty four, Josh

823
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: Gibson gets it out of Yankee Stadium. It was avigated

824
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: by a guy named Jack Marshall who was with the

825
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: Chicago Giants, and he says that they were playing at

826
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: the same time as Josh Gibson's team was, and they

827
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: were in a four team doubleheader, and that the Giants

828
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: were in the stands because they had played the first game,

829
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: so then they could go on the stands and hang out,

830
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: and Gibson's team was then in the second game, and

831
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: that's when it happened. Well, there's only two times where

832
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: the Giants and the Grays were on the field in

833
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: a double header together. The first time that happened, the

834
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: Giants were in the second game, so there's no way

835
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: that they would have been. They could have been in

836
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: the stands, and in that game the Grays one three

837
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 1: to one, but Josh was at bad only four times

838
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: and he only got a single, so evidently the records

839
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: were kept for that game. The second time that they

840
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 1: were together, the Giants did indeed play first, but the

841
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: Grays only got to play for nine innings before the

842
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: game was called because of darkness, and Josh was at bad.

843
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: Gosh how many times he went to bad four times

844
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: and no hits, so we can confirm pretty conclusively that

845
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't four that happened. Seems that this version of

846
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: the story got out because of a book that was

847
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: written in nine seventy by a guy named Robert Peterson

848
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: with a fantastic title which is only the ball was white,

849
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: and he wrote about the black players, and it seems

850
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: that this is where that accounting has came from and

851
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: has gotten so much traction from. Yeah. Um oh. And

852
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: the other thing too, is that Josh Gibson always said

853
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: that he did not knock it out of the park

854
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: that day. That's the biggest piece of evidence, sadly that

855
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: we have to say that he didn't actually do it.

856
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: He was not this guy. He wasn't afraid to talk

857
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: about his accomplishments at Oh, he wasn't. He didn't have

858
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: false modesty. No, he he definitely wasn't a braggard. He

859
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna, you know, run his mouth like Satchel Page.

860
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: Sachiel Page is a pitcher in the same league who

861
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: was no torious for running his mouth and talking all

862
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. But that wasn't Josh. He he didn't

863
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: play that way, he didn't act that way. It was

864
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: it was a better sportsman and he kind of he

865
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: always just put it down when people said, what about

866
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: when you knocked it out of Yankee Stadium and he

867
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: just kind of said, no, I didn't do that, didn't

868
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: actually happened. I hit the wall and it was it

869
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: was still an impressive hit based on what I can

870
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 1: tell he did hit the back wall two ft from

871
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: the top of the wall. Yeah, that's what I've heard too,

872
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: And still an amazing hit, absolutely, absolutely an amazing hit.

873
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: The lower that wall they did, along with the rest

874
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 1: of the stadium, lowered the entire thing. Yeah, geez, Joe.

875
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I presumably they made at high so like

876
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: nearby cars and buildings and people wouldn't be getting whacked

877
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: with baseballs. I'm guessing that. And you know, and eventually

878
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: they started, you know, they put billboards on it, and

879
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: the scoreboard was on it, and those things are all

880
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: really big, and those walls continue to climb and those

881
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: things get bigger and bigger. But that's that's why I

882
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: don't know the exact number of how high that wall is,

883
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: because I can't find a blueprint that's readable. That was

884
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: of the hype. I found some like I said, I

885
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: found schematics of the field, so I could get distances,

886
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: but I could never get actual heights. So it's a

887
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: lot of guestimates on my park about that fifty footmark.

888
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: All right, Well, it looks like we are kind of

889
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 1: at the end. I mean, we've talked about I think

890
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: that Josh probably would have been one of the baseball graades.

891
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: Had he been in a league that was really good

892
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: at keeping stats, and that means that he would have

893
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: been in the league with all the other guys that

894
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: we know about. I think I think it's fair to

895
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: say he really was one of the great one of

896
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 1: the greats. He's just unfortunately history doesn't know how good

897
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: he was now he doesn't. Yeah, but yeah, very very true.

898
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: But he is in the Baseball Hall of Fame. I mean,

899
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: actually he was. His talent was recogn after he had

900
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: been dead for Yeah, he died tragically, very very thirty

901
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: four or thirty five years old. He died, had a stroke.

902
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: They say it was a stroke. He he was. He

903
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: had this problem. So he's a catcher, and when somebody

904
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: would hit a pop foul, of course the guy that's

905
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: got to go after that ball is the catcher. So

906
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen a ball game and you see

907
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: this happen, the catcher yanks off his mask and he

908
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: is running around looking straight up trying to catch the ball.

909
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: Johush always got dizzy and wasn't that good at catching

910
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: those balls. So that to the to the point that

911
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: other players on his team who were on the field

912
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: would run to try to help. That was kind of

913
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: the indicator that something was wrong. And it turns out

914
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: he had a brain tumor, a big brain tumor, and

915
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,919
Speaker 1: he wouldn't let them operate because he was pretty sure

916
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 1: he was going to be lobotomized by the surgery, and

917
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: so he said no, and eventually, you know, he had

918
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: a stroke and then he died. But he was thirty

919
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: four years old. Died six So yeah, thirty five years old.

920
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: Thirty five years old. Very good. Absolutely, you know, it's

921
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: tragic to see his career cut that short. But yeah,

922
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: he couldn't have played on the on a white team,

923
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: and you know, would have been I will tell everybody

924
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: if you are interested in a good book about Josh Gibson.

925
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: I found when I got a lot of good information

926
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: from uh, there's a guy by the name of William Brashler.

927
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: He wrote a book called Josh Gibson, A Life in

928
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: the Negro Leagues. He wrote it in the early to

929
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: mid seventies. And the reason I recommended is that the

930
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: guys that Gibson played with were still alive, so he

931
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: actually got to talk to all of these guys's stories

932
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: directly from them. So That's what made it such a

933
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: good book. It's such a good resource for this. Is

934
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: that where you got the story about the car running

935
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: off the car running off the road. That's absolutely right. Yeah.

936
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: What I didn't share is that the steering wheels made

937
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: of wood, and for the second car, the guy was

938
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: holding onto it so so hard and the wheels jerked

939
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: so strong against it that when they hit, the steering

940
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: wheel shattered and put slivers in the guy's scalp. To

941
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: wait for three days to fight a town with the

942
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: doctor good enough to get him out. Yes, it's a

943
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: different time, yeah, um in those days. But that's all

944
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: I've got unless you guys have anything else. But I

945
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 1: think we solved the mystery. I think he didn't knock

946
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: it out of the Yankee Stadium. He was Nonetheless, personally,

947
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: I think that we need to not broadcast this episode.

948
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: I think that we need to change the end and

949
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: just say that he did. He did. We need to

950
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: make this our lie answer episode that we've always joked

951
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: about doing, just continue the legend. Yeah, I was just

952
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: gonna say. I looked up, um with Google's great little

953
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: with the Google Google, what the the Guinness Book of

954
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: World Records has on record for the longest home run.

955
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: Uh and it turns out it's a bit of a

956
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: contentious issue, definitely. Mickey Mantle was officially credited with nineteen

957
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: sixty six hundred and thirty four ft hit, but apparently

958
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: there's been some research that says, no, that didn't happen,

959
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: So then it'd be Babe Ruth in at five hundred

960
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,959
Speaker 1: and seventy ft. Which is funny because the Babe Ruth

961
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: fans have gone to their websites and they are claiming

962
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: that Ruth hit a six hundred seventy some odd footer.

963
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: It's all based on their math, so they know where

964
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: a building was, they know where the ballpark is, and

965
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: they've done their math to you know, trigonometry, geometry. I

966
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: don't know what what math thing it is, but that's

967
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 1: how they figured it out. Well. I say, for example,

968
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: if it's if you hit it, if you hit if

969
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: you hit one and it goes up about forty degrees

970
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: and then and it comes back down hits the wall

971
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: it's five feet away, two ft from the top of

972
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: that wall, then you know that it would have if

973
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: that we hadn't been there, have gone a certain amount further.

974
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: I assumed. I'm assuming that's how they calculated that, Um,

975
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: for Josh apher, baby Ruth. For baby Ruth, they calculated

976
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: based on knowing where it hits something and where home

977
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: plate was. Yeah, but when you think about it, I mean, no,

978
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: they knew it was on the downward trend for him.

979
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, like like for example, Josh's

980
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: Josh's hit that hit, the hit the back wall actually

981
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: would have gone further. It was more than five It

982
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: was well over that. It would have been a six

983
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: hundred foot easy. Oh no, it would have been like,

984
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 1: you know, six fifty something like that. That's why I'm

985
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: saying six hundred plus feet. Yes, absolutely, Well kept going. Yeah, um, well,

986
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:46,479
Speaker 1: we are suddenly turning into baseball stat dorks, and because

987
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 1: I saw an I don't actually needed I don't really

988
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: think about baseball that much, and yet we know more

989
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: about it than we realize. Yeah, okay, well, let's go

990
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: ahead and give everybody the information ation that they love

991
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: for us to share, because I know this is their

992
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: favorite part of the show, which is the how to

993
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 1: get a hold of a section. You can of course

994
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: go to our website which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot

995
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: com and there. You can find this in any other episode,

996
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: along with links to our research. UM. You can download

997
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: or stream from the website. A lot of folks who

998
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: are downloading or doing so through iTunes. If you're on iTunes,

999
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: do you take the time to leave a comment and rating.

1000
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: It's how other folks find us. We I check it

1001
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: every now and again, and we just continue to move

1002
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: up the ranks, which is great. UM. For folks who

1003
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: aren't downloading and you're streaming, you're using some app. Thankfully,

1004
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: we're on just about every app at this point, so

1005
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: if we're not on it, I'm amazed, you should tell

1006
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: that app to take our feed. We are, of course

1007
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: on the social media, so we're on the Twitter. We

1008
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: are thinking sideways on the Facebook. Also, we're onto Facebook,

1009
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: so we have the Facebook page and we have the

1010
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: Facebook group, which both of which is amazing how much

1011
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: traffic they're getting. And it's great to chat with everybody,

1012
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: and it's great to watch all the conversations that are

1013
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: going on. A lot of them don't even involve us,

1014
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: it's just all the members of the group just oh yeah.

1015
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: That's why we set the group up, is like minded

1016
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: people who are after the same thing. There's a lot

1017
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: of great conversations going on in there. We have a subreddit,

1018
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: which Devin seems to be the only one who understands,

1019
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: but evidently it's a place to talk about episodes. It's

1020
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: just just subscribe, okay, do that, Just subscribe to us.

1021
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: There we go. There's what you do. Subscribe, comments, do something, yep.

1022
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: And of course we are on Patreon at patreon dot

1023
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: com slash thinking sideways. So if you enjoy the show

1024
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: and you like what you we do and you would

1025
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: like to help financially, you're more than welcome to do

1026
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: so on an episode by episode basis. It is completely voluntary.

1027
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: You can do as much or little or not at all.

1028
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: We totally understand. That's why we have it there. We

1029
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: do appreciate everybody who's been on Patreon because there's been

1030
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: a big surge lately, and also for everybody who's been

1031
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: hitting the PayPal account, So thank you very much every guys.

1032
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: And the different expenses was we do have a few

1033
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: of those. Yeah, yeah, I know, we have the big

1034
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: bill that we've got to pay in a couple of

1035
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: weeks and it's really gonna help he out. So yeah,

1036
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: So either if you would like contribute or if you

1037
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: guys would like stop downloading our show, two options really

1038
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: all right, Well, that having been said, I think that

1039
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: we're going to get out of here and we will

1040
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: talk to you guys next week. We knocked this one

1041
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: out of the park, Guy