1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: So we have Um. We teased us on the last 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: episode because I was talking about well, I mean, Kat 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: obviously has been very open about her journey in her 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: marriage on the podcast, and we've had Nick and Catherine 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: on I would say, oh, man, like four years ago 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: maybe on wine Down, and so to have them back 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: come full circle in this setting, it's going to be 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: really fun. And I'm very excited to have Nick Woodard 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: and Catherine Woodard on the podcast today. Hi, babe, hike, 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable, can't I I don't think it's possible to 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: make me uncomfortable. I think because you're you're already so 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: open to begin with, yeah, just tell you how it is? 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: Well then well then yeah, fun, you want to go 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: Cherson first? Well, now you start, because I though you've 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: known the journey intimately. Well, I would just like to say, 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: let's back it up for a second and let's start 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: from the beginning. Um, Nick, I'll have you start, Um, 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: when how did you and Catherine meet? Where did you 20 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: guys meet? And when did you know she was the one? 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: Are we going to be? Uh? Well, are we going 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: to be one? Win? Down. You're unapologetically honest, so welcome. Well, 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: after after I graduated college, Um, I was living in 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: my sister's basement here in in Brentwood. And would you 25 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: go to college again Middle Tennessee State? Okay, would you 26 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: study marketing? Oh? Well yeah, okay, Um, at least you 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: followed you. Wow, okay. I don't know anybody that has 28 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: a degree that's specific to actually what they're doing. No. 29 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, you do. Well, that's why you 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: guys are married. Continue music business? What music business? Oh well, 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: I mean you go to college. Yeah, I know. Anyway, 32 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: move on, cliff notes Nick though okay, he was like, 33 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: it was night nine. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna need 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: another hot tea for this one. Uh. The short answer 35 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: to the story is my Space. Oh, top four. She 36 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: worked her way into the top four? Wow? How did 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: you meet her on my Space? Though? A friend of 38 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: a friend. I don't even know. I don't remember how 39 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: that how that works? Like A found her attractive, so 40 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: I friended her, but let it be known, she contacted 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: me first. It's just like the sliding in the DM situation. 42 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: But I think I did slide first. We were sliding 43 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: before sliding was cool? Uh huh wait and she did first? 44 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: She did? Yeah, I think I did, because you just 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: saw him. Well, we went to school together, so I 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: knew who he was. Huh, and church together, so like 47 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: I knew who he was, and he dated a girl 48 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: that I cheered with and like all those things. So yeah, 49 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: I slid in and I played football with her her 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: older brother for I don't know what two three years. 51 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: So you guys dated for how long before you guys 52 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: got married? I don't know, bid. It was pretty quick? 53 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: Um ten months, ten months? So you got married? No, no, 54 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: we got engaged, sorry, ten months engaged and then married 55 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: four months later, four months later. I'll last back then 56 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: at this point, right, because four and a half months 57 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: twenty especially back then, I feel like you there was 58 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: longer engagement. They happened, Yes, they happened. The venue that 59 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: I wanted happened to have like a date. And the 60 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: truth comes up and remains on brand in her story 61 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: already perfect. Why are we surprised? I was like, done, 62 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: we'll make it work. I was like, well, we're going 63 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: to do this. So whether it's you know, quickly, you're 64 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: taking our time. So you got married at twenty I 65 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: was twenty three, right, Yes, I was twenty three. He 66 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: was twenty six. Yeah, something like that in that range. Okay, 67 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: and then you had your first kid at hold twenty 68 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: five twenty five. Wow, that's like all of our Michigan front. 69 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: I was just going to say, this is the Michigander 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: life crime engagement. Babies is how we were all, um, 71 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: which is what I wanted. I wanted to be like 72 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: a young mom doing it twenty four. I definitely didn't 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: do that. I didn't want that. No, no, no, ma'am 74 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: here in mc guinness book a World Records. Baby. Okay, 75 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: So you had your first son, who's just I mean, 76 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: he's might as well be thirty. Like that's insane. Um, 77 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: not because of how old you guys are. I'm saying 78 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: because you guys showed a picture and I'm like, he's 79 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: so old I know, and he's so responsible. We just 80 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: had this conversation last night. It's like he doesn't need 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: us at all. Like he would be fine, I said 82 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: last night, Like he could get his own apartment. Yeah, 83 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: he which is great. I mean that's like, no, it's 84 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: so good. But yeah, um, okay, So Nick, I have 85 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: a question for you okay, what was or if you 86 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: could pinpoint the first moment you remember distance growing in 87 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: your relationship ooh um. Probably probably the stereotypical. You know, 88 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: once you have kids, especially at a young age. You know, 89 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: we were both i'll say, starting our careers, you know, 90 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: trying to grow your career, and then you bring kids 91 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: into the mix. And what Emmy was only what a 92 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: couple of years after Caden, So like all we knew 93 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: for the longest time was the grind. You know, as 94 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: you're you're both trying to do your your careers, you're 95 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: both trying to advance, you're taking care of kids. Um, 96 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, she would travel some, so I would take 97 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: some responsibilities, um solo, and then you know vice versa. 98 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: We we always kind of shared everything. And then your 99 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: focus is so just hurry, hurry and busy and taking 100 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: care of kids that I think sometimes you kind of 101 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: I don't say forget, but you're so overwhelmed with the 102 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: day to day that maybe you start to back off 103 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: of those very necessary things in order to grow in 104 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: your own relationship together. Necessary things being yeah, date nights 105 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: and intentionality. Yeah, I'd say, just you get overwhelmed with 106 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: stuff and you just you get into some patterns that 107 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: you know, on face value don't seem to be detrimental, 108 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: but over the course of time can be. And Catherine, 109 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: what about for you, like, was there can you can 110 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: you pinpoint a specific memory or moment that you kind 111 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: of was like, Oh, we're not this isn't like we're 112 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: not as close as we once were. It's funny because 113 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: him saying that, I'm like, well, I guess that's true, 114 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: but I don't. I never saw it that way, which 115 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: is so interesting to hear that. For me, it was 116 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: the obvious starting to argue, starting to fight. Year seven, 117 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: very memorable seven San Diego. Yes, the big fight, the 118 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: big San Diego fight was my big memory for sure. 119 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: You want to talk about it, yeah, I mean I 120 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: just know. I don't even remember the whole detail around it. 121 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: I just know that we were on a plane with you, 122 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: we talked about going to San Diego. I don't even 123 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: remember what he did that upset me so much, though, 124 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: the sad thing and that funny something about not wanting 125 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: to go or not wanting to spend the money, and 126 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: I just wanted him to like want to go or 127 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: to surprise me. It was something about wanting him to 128 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: want of course, and we just had on the way 129 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: home from the airport, we argued. We got home, we 130 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: were it was the first time we had truly fought 131 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: in front of the kids, and like really bad, Like 132 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: I asked him to leave, he refused to leave. So 133 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm like sitting there holding my I mean, it was dramatic, 134 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: like very dramatic, and I was like, this can't be. 135 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm sure obviously there was things before 136 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: that that we were already growing apart. We're already you know, 137 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: building up before that. But that's my memory. Do you 138 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: think from San Diego you started, was that the shift 139 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: that you started to kind of push away even more? Yeah, 140 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: And my biggest thing was the kids. I was like, 141 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: we can't fight like this in front of the kids anymore. 142 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: So then I just kind of started to shut down. 143 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: So what's the timeline between San Diego and the decision? 144 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: And we obviously want to get more detailed into how 145 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: the decision to split or separate, But what's the timeline 146 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: between San Diego and the separation? How many years of 147 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: living in that feeling? Eight? Yeah? Yeah, eight a lot? Yeah, 148 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: And that feels heavy, like just even like, that's heavy, 149 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: that's almost a decade. And in those points, are you 150 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: guys sharing with each other that you feel distant? Is it? 151 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: And I'm asking these questions because I know I can 152 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: speak on behalf of myself, but I probably can confidently 153 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: speak on behalf of Jana too. In certain relationships, like 154 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: you just start to shut down, or there's resentment building, 155 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: or maybe there's you're not saying what you want, what 156 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: you need, what you feel like. Are you is this 157 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: the switch where you start to like make the file 158 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: folder where you're just putting in like in this I 159 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: don't like and that I don't like, Or are you 160 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: living in a space of like, Okay, I can tell 161 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: something's wrong and I'm trying to move us and it 162 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: just feels like you're not clicking. I'd say kind of 163 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: a mix of all of it. I mean, we did 164 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: couples therapy at the time, and it wasn't working well 165 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: for us. We would leave there. The last time we 166 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: went to couples therapy, we left and we were like 167 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: basically like we're either getting divorced or we're sweeping this 168 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: under the rug. Yeah, And so we just said it 169 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: was just creating more issues and not not to say 170 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: that therapy does that, because I think therapy is great. Yeah, 171 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, y'all here know me. I'll talk to anybody 172 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: about anything. But I think if you don't have the 173 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: right fit, it can be detrimental. And I think we 174 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: were kind of in a situation where I don't know, 175 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: I guess we did ultimately want to change, but I 176 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: think we went into therapy figuring out how to make 177 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: the other person change instead of going in with the 178 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: focus on you. I think we kind of had the 179 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: wrong mindset and just the way I am was, Hey, 180 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: I made this commitment. We're in this together. Whether I 181 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: enjoy it or not, this is the commitment I made. 182 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to see it through. And happiness is not 183 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: necessarily a part of the commitment. You know, Happiness comes 184 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: and goes. But with that said, it was yeah, well 185 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: it was a struggle for many, many years, but deep 186 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: down we always knew we had something amazing in there. 187 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: We just had to tap into it. Katherine, you're trumping, well, 188 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: I was thinking about us doing couples therapy and how 189 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: that didn't work for us us. I think a lot 190 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: of it for us, And I'm not like pointing fingers 191 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: or doing anything. It was I had the very obvious 192 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: childhood wounds. Um, I acknowledged those and when they were 193 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: coming out, so it was like, let's go to couples 194 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: therapy and fix Catherine. I felt that way and he 195 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: definitely felt that way. And it was one of those 196 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: we got into it, and again I wasn't in a 197 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: place to necessarily make changes. I was aware, but not 198 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: to make changes. And he was in a place of well, 199 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: my family was perfect and I'm perfect, and that was 200 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: just perfect were very you know, obvious. Mine were a 201 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: little bit deeper. Literally. The therapist would be like, so 202 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: nake about and he's like, my family's perfect. And I 203 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: was tell us about a childhood you do you have 204 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, some stuff you you dealt with as a child, 205 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, my parents were at every 206 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: game ever played. Dad told me loved me all the time. 207 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: So did mom. I was always hugged on, loved on. No, 208 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: pretty good, That's how that went. So I was like, yeah, 209 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: I've done. I feel like this is a copy paste 210 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: of my couple therapy. I'm like, so here's my open 211 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: giant winds and my husband's like, who's awesome? I basically 212 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: in the fifty sitcom and I'm like, cool, I'll head out. 213 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: I just thought we had to address that because I 214 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: think that like it's not but it's common. I mean 215 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: it has to feel at that point too, like how 216 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: to eat an elephant when bite at a time, right, 217 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: Like you sit down and you lay out what you 218 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: need to work through, and then you're like, okay, we 219 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: already have seven eight years under us, you know, or 220 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: whatever ten years at that point, and then you have 221 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: to go, how do we deconstruct to reconstruct? And let's 222 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: just do all of that in like one hour. And 223 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: then let's also go back to parenting kids, three kids 224 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: full time and working, both of you working full time, 225 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: like it takes a it's exhausting, and it's not easy 226 00:12:51,280 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: work in there, exhausting. In the eight years that you 227 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: guys were in that let's sweep or let's shove down, 228 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: push it down, push push, push, push, push, push push. 229 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: I want to ask both of you what was the 230 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: number one need that wasn't met? And I want you 231 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: to go a step deeper than just like we know 232 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: that you know, okay, maybe there wasn't as much sexual activity, 233 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: but I think it always goes like for me, like 234 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: when my X wasn't having sex with me, the I 235 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: was so upset, but it was the underneath or feeling 236 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: of yeah, I'm not loved or I'm not chosen. So 237 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: I'm curious what that was for you and what that 238 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: was for you For me? Um, you know, the intimate 239 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,719 Speaker 1: intimacy aspect. Yes, sex is a part of it, but 240 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: that's again, that's one one little factor. It was the 241 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: it was the connectiveness, the the you know, wanting her 242 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: to show that she needed me. You know, I'm wired 243 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: like every other guy. I want to be a provider. 244 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: I want to I want to be needed. Um. You know, 245 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: she's a very independent woman, so, which is what attracted 246 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: me to her in the first place. But when you 247 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: start to get to a place where you're like, wow, 248 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: I could die tomorrow and she'd pick right up and 249 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: be fine. Yeah, that's that's a hard pick. Do you 250 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: honestly believe that I did at the time? Yeah, Katherine, 251 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: how does that make you feel? I mean I knew 252 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: he felt that way, and if I'm being completely honest, 253 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: I think part of me was like, yeah, I could, 254 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, totally, like I've been built my whole life 255 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: trying to be independent, like this is me. You know, 256 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: it's a shame you and I don't have anything in common. 257 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: I know, I'm so over here like wow, well no, 258 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: I mean it's so truecause because I remember, like even 259 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: during those eight years you're like eyep, I was looking 260 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: at apartments and I'm like, it's like you you just 261 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: you've always been like you know business, I can handle 262 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: this and I can do this, and like it's a 263 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: beautiful quality. At the same time, that piece, I think 264 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: when you guys did separate, I'm like, I'm like, oh, 265 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: I don't want you to ever to be alone because 266 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, I know maybe you say you're okay to 267 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: be alone, but I'm like, are you though forever? Like 268 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, I want you to find love 269 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: again and I want you to feel loved and because 270 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: you deserve that. So that piece, I was like, that 271 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: was my most like I was scared for you. On 272 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: that piece. I didn't want you just to like not 273 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: find love again and just like be like I can 274 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: do this by myself. Independence, I think is just such 275 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse. It truly is like I've 276 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: learned that for sure. For me. Oh, that's a hard one, 277 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, me, it's hard to dig deeper. Let's dig deeper, Okay. 278 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: I think for me, my biggest wasn't necessarily what I 279 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: needed from him, because I couldn't pinpoint that I didn't 280 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: know what I needed from him. But I know my 281 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: issue was that I felt like a failure, Like I 282 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: just felt like, well, he's over here saying I need 283 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: X Y and Z needs I don't really know what 284 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: I need, and I'm just over here not being able 285 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: to accommodate those needs or not wanting to or not 286 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: feeling like I should be more like I grew up 287 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: with no physical touch and he wants physical touch, and 288 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm at a point where I don't even 289 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: know how to like, you know, like hold your hand, 290 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, Like I didn't see that, and so I 291 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: just felt like a shut down failure. So it wasn't 292 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: necessarily that I'm over here like, well he's not giving 293 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: me x Y and Z. I used some of those 294 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: things as excuses, like I'd be like, well, you didn't 295 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: set up date night, or you didn't do this, or 296 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: you didn't do that, But truly it was just a 297 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: wall was up because I didn't know how to do 298 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: what I knew I needed to do well. And I'm 299 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: sure the more he pushed, the more you shut off. Yes, 300 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: well I was going to say that, like I became 301 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: someone that I wasn't. Yes, so over the years, like 302 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: I became needy. I attached me. Absolutely, Yeah, we were that. Yeah, 303 00:16:50,080 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: so you're you're we were the same human like it 304 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: made me cleany, made me like, you know, and then 305 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: she can pick up on the fact that you know, 306 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: I'm doing something for an agenda, like all right, we 307 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: got to go on a date night, so you know, 308 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: if I do this for her, then she'll do it. 309 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: Just became like a poker game. Um, and you can 310 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: both feel that, but you're not saying it right exactly, 311 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: You're just being that way. Yeah. Oh and then I 312 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: we did figure this out in therapy. Well, I finally 313 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: admitted it. I would create a fight, so like if 314 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: we were going to go on to date night, I 315 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: would sabotage it. I would like come up with something 316 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: and I would just create a fight. So then it 317 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: was like, okay, great, now we can go back to 318 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: our respective court alone. Yeah, you go to this room 319 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: right am over here. Ship that in work diary. So 320 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: then what was the what was the um the switch 321 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: for you, Catherine to go, Okay, I'm filing for divorce. 322 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: I started doing my own therapy, which was so much 323 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: more beneficial for me than a couple of therapy, not 324 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: knocking couples therapy, but my own journey. And my big 325 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: thing was I was living what I lived. My kids 326 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: were living what I lived as a child, and that 327 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: was killing me. Like they're not seeing affection, They're not 328 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: seeing us love each other, go on dates, you know, 329 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: do all these things. They're just seeing two independent people 330 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: do their own thing. We're getting along at this point, 331 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: we're not fighting really, but like this isn't what I 332 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: want for my kids. So that put me back into therapy, 333 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm a very decisive person. Usually 334 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: I hate living in the gray. I hate, you know, 335 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: and I was living there for so long. So finally 336 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: I was just like I have to make a decision, 337 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: like it is, something has to happen. And it was 338 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: kind of like there were two hards in front of me. 339 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: They both are a lot of work, and so I 340 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: just kind of made a decision and then I think 341 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: I was convinced it was the right decision for sure. 342 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: Let me add a little something to that though, like 343 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: you are, our situation was that's what made it feel 344 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: so weird when we were going through it. It's like 345 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: we still were the best of friends. There was just 346 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: something that was not connecting. Well, I think too, Like 347 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: every time we've had a conversation, she'd be like, he didn't. 348 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: He's not a cheater, he's not a nucle he didn't. 349 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: He doesn't drink, he's not He's an amazing dad. Like 350 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: she's like, it's like you were trying to find a 351 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: reason for the last eight years almost to be like, Okay, 352 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't make it makes sense, to make it makes sense, 353 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: why the disconnect is there, or to leave right or 354 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: I wanted him to do it right because like you know, 355 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: my mom was the one that left my dad, and 356 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to be the mom that 357 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: makes the decision. That was the biggest piece for me. 358 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: It was like a standoff, who's going to budge first? Well, 359 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: and you I remember coming to the gym and you know, 360 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: we we were having a conversation and I'm like, but Nick, 361 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: that's not a way to live either, Like Nope, I'm 362 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: never going to divorce her. I'm like, so you're just 363 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: gonna be unhappy for the rest of your life. Well, 364 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: I'll not have your needs met, push it all down 365 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: and die first. That that was the plan. And I 366 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: was like, but that's not okay either. I'm like, I 367 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: love both of you, and y'all are fucking miserable, right, 368 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: Like it's okay that you didn't do this or she 369 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: didn't do that, Like you guys are just not happy together, 370 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: and like it's okay to walk away, Like you deserve happiness, 371 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: she deserves happiness. I think again, it's maybe that's a 372 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: difference in upbringing in that type situation, but it was 373 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: very much like, Okay, what's what's the hardest here? Me 374 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: me pushing it all down and just dealing with it internally, 375 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: or you know, my kids having two separate homes and 376 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: do like so and again there you kind of go 377 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: into far extremes in your head, like if we stay together, 378 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: it's going to be this way and we're going to 379 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: continue to go down this horrible path. If we break 380 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: it off, then you know, oh my god, my kids 381 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: aren't going to have a family. And it's it's so 382 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: you kind of go to extremes both ways. So the 383 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: easiest thing to do is nothing like status quo, right, 384 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: just keep it how it is, which isn't right by 385 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: any means, but well, the vulnerability it takes at that 386 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: point to lean into each other and get out of 387 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: your own way and out of each other's way and 388 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: just like lean in, it's just not even really an 389 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: option at that point. Like it's like it definitely didn't 390 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: feel like it was for sure. Yeah, so then what 391 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: was the thought for you, Catherine, to go, wait a minute, 392 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: maybe I'm making a mistake. You know. It's interesting because 393 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: when we weren't together, we got along so well. I mean, 394 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: it was like everybody around us, like, what the hell 395 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: are you doing? Ago? Can I just say that? Preston 396 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: and I were at home and he's like, this isn't 397 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: gonna last. And I was like their marriage and he's like, no, 398 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: them being a part. Maybe they're not supposed to be divorced, 399 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: and I was like, I feel it too, I'm confused. 400 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: We felt like your kids. All of us were like 401 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: explaining this stuff. You saying something Timmy, lets yeah, you 402 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: were like you, I don't know what it is, but 403 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: you guys had too much respect and too much love. 404 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: Like I was like, at the heart of this, you 405 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: have what it takes to be for forever. There's just 406 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: some icky surfacy stuff like we got to clean up 407 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: or something, but no one, no one goes through a divorce, 408 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: like y'all were going through a divorce, and I'm just like, like, 409 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: what do you want, baked, Yeah, take that, that's fine. 410 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: You need something. I'm like, we do the most mutual 411 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: admiration like moment, and I do think that exists in 412 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: divorces somewhere, but like eventually it kep. Yeah, I do, 413 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: but like for it to just be I was like, 414 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like I'm like, maybe I'll just 415 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: need different rooms or something, because it just feels like 416 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: a whole spaces all you're really wanting the dating. We 417 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: got different rooms, I got a whole new house for 418 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: a couple of months, but yeah, I moved out, you know, 419 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: the whole thing. And Kat was you know, you were 420 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: here here, here, she was outstairs where Yeah. Yeah, I 421 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: mean I think so we were getting along so well 422 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: and I think we truly figured out in that time 423 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: that like being best friends never left, you know. That 424 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: was always there. That was always the common thread. It 425 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: was just you know, the the being in a relationship 426 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: part of it. Um. But honestly, like it took it. 427 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: I hate to say it. It took us dating other 428 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: people for me to like really go whoa whoa way 429 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: to men, Nat get out there and you show them 430 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: that's your man girl. Yeah. But I very specifically remember 431 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: Kristen of here talking about one of your episodes turning 432 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: Cat into the wild in the right direction. I remember 433 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: getting a text from Nick going, well, now listen to 434 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 1: your podcast anymore, and I'm like, I'm so sorry. We're 435 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: just trying to make her like, you know, like happy, 436 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: Like you need to go be wild too if you want. 437 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: Like it was hard playing the like friends to both yah, 438 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because I'm like, I want 439 00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: you to be happy, but I want you to be 440 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: happy and then you know, and then sometimes dating helps 441 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: you get back out there and feel like, oh, I'm 442 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: not going to be alone forever or like I'm good. 443 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think we can all agree that 444 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: Kat was never gonna be Cat in the wild wild, 445 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: you know, me getting away and every I spent a 446 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: lot of times fishing like those three or four months. 447 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: It was just I needed. Ninety percent of the time 448 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: I was alone, just processing, Okay, what's the future look like, 449 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: what's you know, what's going to happen moving forward? Um? 450 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: But what that said, it was such a weird feeling 451 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: because in my gut I knew it wasn't over. So 452 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: then that's interesting because I remember when we were sitting 453 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: up back and I said, what if she asked for 454 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: you back? And you're like, now I'm done? When when 455 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: once I get past a point, I'm done. Well, I 456 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: remember very specifically what I said to you. You were like, 457 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, what if she comes about? And I said, 458 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: unless there is an act of God and a fundamental 459 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: change in our relationship, I can't go back through that again. 460 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: And nothing shy of an act of God and fundamental change, 461 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: I mean, and pursing you date other people potentially because 462 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: she realized And sometimes that's what it takes to see 463 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: like oh wait a minute, no, that A that's my man, 464 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: and B like you don't know what you have until 465 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: you like that's saying. There's a saying for a reason. 466 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: My favor saying now is um, sometimes people don't know 467 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: what you bring to the table. Till they see you 468 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: doing your thing at another table. But yeah, you know 469 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: what that said. I always knew at some point, you know, Yes, 470 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm a relationship guy, So I was obviously going to 471 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: be looking for the things that I felt that I 472 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: didn't have. And I always knew at some point, you know, 473 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: I was going to meet somebody that wanted something more 474 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: than I was able to give. You some point, someone's 475 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: gonna want me to love them fully, and I knew 476 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: that I would never be able to do that because 477 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: I was still in love with Catherine. So that was 478 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: my biggest fear going You know, this relationship didn't work, 479 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: but the next one is not going to work either, 480 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: because I can't give them what they're gonna want because 481 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: he was putting me first. And that the other one 482 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: I sense a little it's a little little nat geo. 483 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: It's a little out in the wild Mike instinct. She 484 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: did get cat wild. She did. We just didn't see 485 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: that coming. So you were so to walk us through 486 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: that piece. Then, like, what was the conversation you had 487 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: with Nick to kind of get him back or say hey, whoopsies. Yeah, 488 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: So it started with no, no, It started with like 489 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: a very vulnerable conversation, not yet realizing that I fully 490 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: wanted him back. But it started with a very vulnerable 491 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: like I need to tell you that you were a 492 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: good dad, Like you did everything you could as a husband, 493 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: Like I needed to have that conversation with him. And yes, 494 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: it also evolved around someone else who was evolved, and 495 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, it was a conversation but like you're my 496 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: best friend, and like we're co parenting, and like this 497 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: person doesn't get to come in between. You know, there 498 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: was a lot of that, and it was the most 499 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: vulnerable I'd been in a long time. That was the 500 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: first conversation. But I think we still thought he was 501 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: moving down that path and we were staying, you know, divorced. 502 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: And then I kind of had to evaluate my feelings 503 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: around it. I'm like, why am I so bothered by this? 504 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 1: Why do I feel like is it just because I'm jealous? 505 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: Is it just like And I really had to evaluate 506 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: my feelings on it, and then honestly, it was for me, 507 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: it was just such an act of God. It was 508 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: like in church something he said. I was just like, 509 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: do you remember he said, it was the day you 510 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: remember calling crying? Right, we are picking up The crazy 511 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: thing is she sent me the clip of that sermon. 512 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I didn't pick up on anything, 513 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: but it was something that rocks well because you saw 514 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: it. It It was something about like, and people may not 515 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: agree with this, but like Christians don't just we don't 516 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: just throw away marriages, basically not saying like if there's 517 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: reasons and stuff like that, but we truly, to me, 518 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: never really had that like blow up a reason or whatever. 519 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: And it was something along that. It was something along 520 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: the lines of not just throwing away a marriage. And 521 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: my kids were there and I was just like, oh, 522 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: it was awful, and he was like, oh, yeah, the 523 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: kids will be fine, blah blah blah. I'm like, no, no no, no, 524 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: I need to come over. We need to talk, you know, 525 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: and it just kind of switched for me, and it 526 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: was just kind of like this moment, and so I 527 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: just went over there and like started talking, and he was, 528 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, at first, hesitant, you know, as as he 529 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: should be, you know, and I didn't want to hurt 530 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: him further. So it was very much just a conversation 531 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: of like, I'm having these thoughts. I don't feel like 532 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: we did everything that we could have, but I don't 533 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: want to hurt you. I don't want you to have 534 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: to go through this again. So what do you think? 535 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: You know? And I just kind of sat there and 536 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: he was quiet. Well, I tell, I told, I've said 537 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: this depression too. I'm like, I think anytime you rebuild anything, 538 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: half of it fifty This is I want to remind 539 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: everyone I have a PhD in so but like for me, 540 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: fifty percent of it is a decided heart and the 541 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 1: other fifty is figuring out why you do what you do. 542 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: And I just feel like you had the fifty percent 543 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: trying to figure out why you do what you do. 544 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: But like once there's a decided heart, especially with a 545 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: brain like yours, Yeah, it's I mean it's on the 546 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: power point at that point. And you're done. So now 547 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: that you guys are reconciled and back together, you Okay, 548 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: Catherine did not get divorced. My kids, we or Ramsey 549 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: still thinks we did. But it's okay, we've got to 550 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: get there. You were about to right like it was 551 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: going to be on Monday. Yeah, yeah, the next day, 552 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: so you're not. So. Catherine is not divorced. They just 553 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a separation we're going to 554 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: we're not. Now, what are you most aware of moving 555 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: forward so that you don't fall back? Well, this is 556 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: hard because I feel like the honeymoon stage is kind 557 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: of over right, um sneaking around, Yeah, good time. But 558 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: even at home there was still a honeymoon stage. I 559 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: feel like for a while now life is busy as 560 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: crap again. We're every which way and we're and it's 561 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: easy to fall back in. I mean, I think some 562 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: habits are starting to creep back in a little bit, 563 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: Like which ones like that are that we're glad to. Yeah, 564 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: when I first moved back in, like we were spending 565 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: every single night together watching TV together. They're like, but 566 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: the way we're both wired is we need us time. 567 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: You know, we're I've got clients pulling at me, She's 568 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: got you, you guys are Actually she's a client of 569 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: both here. So I think at this point it's just 570 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: being intentional with it and you know, kind of checking in, 571 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: like like she'll come in and be like, hey, I'm 572 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna watch my show tonight. You good, We're good. 573 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. So I think 574 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: the intentionality and being aware of those things that, you know, 575 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: don't let it become habitual as much as it wasn't 576 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: the past. Right, Yeah, I agree with that, and I 577 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: think we're very aware of it and we are just talking. 578 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: You know, before we never talked, so now we're talking 579 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: about it a lot. And there are definitely been certain 580 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: triggers that have come up for both of us. Oh yeah, 581 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: absolutely that we've had to talk through. You know, like 582 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: I got upset about something and then he autumn radically 583 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: goes so I can't go back to that place, you know, 584 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's fine, Like it's not that, you know. 585 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 1: So there's little triggers that will come up every now 586 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: and then that we just kind of have to talk through. 587 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: But so do you kind of get scared that she's 588 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: going to be like I can't do this anymore, I 589 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: want to divorce again or something. Do I get scared? No, Like, 590 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it'll ever go to that again. The 591 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: anxiousness died a little bit. It died a little bit 592 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: because well, it's like my brain's telling you know, I'm 593 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: a very emotional person. So yes, I do get that 594 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: anxiety when I feel something building up, But in my head, 595 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm also like, Okay, this isn't this isn't real, Like 596 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: you got to back it down a little bit. Yeah, 597 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean there was trauma in what happened. 598 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: So anytime there's, you know, any sort of conflict, I'm 599 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: going to have to over the years learn how to 600 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: back myself off that ledge knowing you know that that's 601 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: not where we're going here, So chill out a little bit, right, 602 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: But she's meeting you in a different place too, very 603 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: much like the vulnerability piece. Yes, even I've even noticed 604 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: with you in friendship, just the openness and the vulnerability 605 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: I really imagine, Well, it is, it's huge, and it 606 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: matters because you're such a special human being that it's 607 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: like to guard yourself as no one, Like it doesn't 608 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: do any of us any good, Like we need to 609 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: know all of you trust you, But it's true. So 610 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: like I feel like, because I'm an anxious attached, jan 611 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: is an anxious attached, I'm a graduated anxious attack. I'm 612 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: saying we could default. We could, that's where we default. Yeah, 613 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm anxious. I might be in 614 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: severely independent anxious attached, but you're so independent at the 615 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: same time, well that's what I well, the other wing 616 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: is avoiding. Yeah, you just I'm avoiding yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, 617 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: But like I know that when oh bless the same. Um. 618 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: I just feel like in the anxious attachment, if I 619 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: can become more vulnerable, there's just all sorts of walls 620 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: that go down when you say what you want, what 621 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: you need, what you feel. So I feel like it 622 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: probably lessens that anxious attachment because you have a little 623 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: security knowing like she's going to lean into you a 624 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: little bit too, you don't have to be so scared. Well, 625 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: I'll say the number one thing that opened my eyes 626 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: more than anything, Like I've always been a believer, but 627 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: there was always this hostility between me and God that 628 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: this is the one thing I want God, why won't 629 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: you let this happen? Like all I want is a 630 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: close relationship with my wife, and it's just getting further 631 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: and further apart. So when she did come back and 632 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: things change so abruptly, it was the most eye opening 633 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: experience in my spiritual walk that I've ever experienced. So 634 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: just knowing that, you know, I always knew God could intervene, 635 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: but I was always pissed off. Why wouldn't he, And 636 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: when it did happen, it blew my mind to a 637 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: point where I'm like, Okay, well now I truly believe 638 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: anything and everything is possible. Yeah. Well, I think that's 639 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: where the piece where, Like there was there was other 640 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: reasons that I um to this story, but I think 641 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: for people that are divorced, when I heard, I was like, well, 642 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: why didn't got an intervene in my marriage? Sure? You know, 643 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: and like that, like like how does he get to 644 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: pick which one? Yeah? He picks, you know, And so 645 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: then you question that too, like it's like from questioning 646 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: to questioning, and then it just like you're trying to 647 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: make sense of it. You know. That's the one thing 648 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: I learned in all this. You can't make sense of it. Yeah. Yeah, 649 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think I think he just knows better 650 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: than us, and I think he knows who ends up 651 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: better on the other end and who does it? You know? Yeah, 652 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: oh for sure of it. But yeah, that's such a 653 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: good point. Yeah, I'll never forget. I had an absolute 654 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm saying this, but had an absolute 655 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: emotional melt down the night she came over and we 656 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: had that conversation like, I sobbed like I've never experienced 657 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: in my entire life, to the point like three days 658 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: later my stomach still hurt, and it was a whole 659 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: mixed bag of yes, relief, but more just the awe 660 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: of what God can do. Like that's the first time 661 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: I'd ever really experienced what I felt was answered prayers 662 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: answered prayers. Yeah, yeah, Wow. What would you say to 663 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: the people that are kind of struggling have struggled. It's 664 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: very similar to your marriage. What would be one piece 665 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: that they can kind of walk away with that you 666 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: think that they could take from this to keep ongoing 667 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,919 Speaker 1: and keep maybe to go to go down this road 668 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: that you guys are on. Go first. But that's hard 669 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: for me. I think the number one thing for me obviously, 670 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: and everyone's different, but is the vulnerability piece. Just be 671 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: vulnerable and see where it leads you. Yeah, and just 672 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: be vulnerable, see where it leads you. It's beautiful. That's 673 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: really I think intentionality in yourself, you know, seriously, do 674 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: the work on you, because when you're struggling, it's not 675 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: because the other person is because of both of you, 676 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, so you need to focus on you in 677 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: making the changes that will be beneficial to you as 678 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: a full couple. But on the other side of that, 679 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: you have to make acknowledgements when your partners trying to 680 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: do those things as well, because you have to have 681 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 1: those little victories throughout otherwise you'll just give up. Yeah, 682 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: that's true. Well, I mean I love you obviously both 683 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: love you guys so much. So this is I mean, 684 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: I love this story, love you. I just want to 685 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: say I called it. And just like we always say, 686 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: like marriage is hard, it's the grass is not always greener. 687 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: On the other side, everyone's going to have something. And 688 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: keep on working on yourself, keep on being honest, telling 689 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,399 Speaker 1: the truth, and um you know yeah, like keep looking 690 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: in the mirror. And that's a wrap.