1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Hey, Orry, remember a few weeks ago when we criticized 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Albert Einstein. I remember you criticize Einstein. Well, you know 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: he added a big fudge factor to his theory just 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: to make it work. Yeah, it was a pretty big 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: fudge factor. I guess it was a little bit embarrassing 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: for the old genius. It was sort of a universe 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: size fudge factor. Well, you know, it turns out maybe 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been so critical because particle physics has 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: some fudge factors of its own. Particle physicist shouldn't be 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: throwing stones at glass theories. That's right, we got some 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: whoppers of fudge factors. Are they Einstein size? Are they 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: really big? Well? Does an infinity count is really big? 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: Does nothing count as really small? I think so. I 14 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: am more handy cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, 15 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle of physicist, and I'd just 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: like to point out that Jorge is not just a cartoonist. 17 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: He also has a PhD from a famous university. Thank you. 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you think it's a famous university, you being 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: on the other side of the Bay Area. It's famously 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: the second best university in the Bay Area, even enough 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: to Santa Clara University. I think that's probably true. But 22 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: welcome anyway to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, 23 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Media in which we take 24 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: you on a tour of all the incredible, amazing bunker 25 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: stuff in the universe, from tiny little particles that don't 26 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: really spin too enormous galaxies that spin mysteriously. Yeah. We 27 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: go from the crazy maybe ideas that physicists have about 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: the universe to the actual nitty gritty theories that they have. 29 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: Because everybody is curious about our universe. How does it work? 30 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: What's really happened? The search for truth and understanding is 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: as old as human consciousness. And here we take you 32 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: on some of the last steps and we try to 33 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: bring you up to speed to what scientists are thinking 34 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: right now. What model is in the head of particle 35 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: physicists when they think about a particle. How does a 36 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: cosmologists think about the whole universe? Yeah? And are they 37 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: right or are they just making it up as they 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: go along? And doesn't make any sense? And what does 39 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: it mean if the universe doesn't actually make sense? Oh? Boy, 40 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: now you got me worried. Well, after today's episode, you'll 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: discover that it's all sort of well. These days, the 42 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: universe doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. But 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: fortunately that's what we're here for, and that's what physicists 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: are here for, to try to put some order into 45 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: the universe. And so today on the program, we'll be 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: talking about a particular I don't know what do you 47 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: what would you call it a whole in your theory 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: of the universe or a hole in your theory of matter. 49 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: It's sort of like a shift in your perspective. We're 50 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: used to thinking about particles in one certain way. What 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: is their spin, where is their mass, what is their charge? 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: But we discover that didn't really make a lot of sense, 53 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: and what we had to do was think about particles 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: in a totally different way. I see. So when something's 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: wrong or there's a big hole in it, you just 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: you just call it need to shift our perspective. That's right, 57 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: let's just sweep all that under the rug and then 58 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: called the rug our new idea. That's essentially what's happening here. 59 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: But that's you know, that's an important part of physics 60 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: when you have a model and you push on it 61 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: and push on it, you discover it doesn't actually quiet work, 62 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: and then you have to accept something counterintuitive, something new, 63 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: a new perspective on the universe, but one that actually 64 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: does work mathematically. That's right, and so to be on 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: the program, we'll be tackling the question what is renormalization. 66 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: Is it just a fancy physics word for making stuff 67 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: up and pushing all the infinities under the carpet, or 68 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: are we going to talk about when things will go 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: back to normal in this crazy world we live in 70 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: right now? That's what I was hoping for, or when 71 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: I saw the title, Daniel, I would not rely on 72 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: particle physics to make things normal. It reveals the bonkersness 73 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: of the universe. It reveals how the universe is so 74 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: hard to grasp, and we're in this constant journey of 75 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: trying to map our understanding of the universe onto the 76 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: microscopic to think about these little objects electrons and photons 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: in terms of quantities that we find familiar, you know, 78 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: mass or charge or spin. But it's a struggle, I see. 79 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: You have to sort of assume the opposite when a 80 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: particle physics is walks in you're like, let's throw normal 81 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: out the door. It's buckle up and get ready for 82 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: a journey to the weird, because that's where we all live. 83 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: All right. Well, this is a pretty interesting idea, and 84 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: it has to do with your theories about particles and 85 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: matter and that they sort of don't always work or 86 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: there's holes about them. Yeah, it's sort of akin to 87 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: how if you try to describe particles in terms of 88 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: particles like tiny little dots of stuff, that doesn't always work. Right. 89 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: We see particles sometimes having produce like waves, right, they interfere, 90 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: and so we have a broader sense of these things. 91 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: They're not just little dots of stuff. They're these weird 92 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: quantum mechanical objects. It can be like waves and like particles. 93 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: So that's an example of how you might have to 94 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: broaden your concept of a particle. And today we're gonna 95 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: have to broaden it again, sort of in a different direction, 96 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: because the idea we had about particles carrying these little 97 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: numbers with them doesn't actually quite work when you sit 98 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: down to do the man. I was just wrapping my 99 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: head around that idea. Daniel, you're saying it doesn't apply 100 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: or doesn't quite tell me, what's happening in the universe? Yeah, 101 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: And you know what we do is we have this idea. 102 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: We say, let's give these little dots in space, these labels, 103 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: these numbers will say charge mine is one mass of whatever, 104 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: spin of a half, and then let's see if it works. 105 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: And when you run the numbers and try to compare 106 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: it to what we see in experiments, it doesn't actually work. 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: And it tells us something sort of deep and weird 108 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: about what the particles are and what they aren't. Sounds 109 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: interesting and I want to know more. But at first, 110 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: as usual, Daniel went out there into the wilds of 111 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: the internet to ask people if they knew what renormalization was. 112 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: That's right, So thank you to everybody who volunteered to 113 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: answer a random person on the internet questions. Before you 114 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: listen to these answers, think about it. Have you heard 115 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: of the term renormalization or would you even know or 116 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: guess what it could mean. Here's what people had to say. Um, 117 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: maybe something happened to you and you are becoming normal again. 118 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: I do not know, no clue. I my guests would 119 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: be to bring something back to normal after a change. 120 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure when something goes normal again. What happens 121 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: if you don't know what any of the words. I 122 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: really don't know. It's not a term I've heard before. 123 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: My guess is it has something to do with phenomen 124 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: of maintaining order in the universe. We've learned something new 125 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: about space or um, so, whether that's on a cosmic 126 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: scale or a particle scale, and we need to change 127 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: our assumptions that go into our equations based on the 128 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: nearing side. Well, it seems like some people have the 129 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: same idea you did, are going to go back. I 130 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: think getting back to normal is probably high on people's 131 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: mind right now. But I like, yes or there where 132 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: the person just said doesn't mean becoming normal. Well, I've 133 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: never been normal, so I can't really speak to them. 134 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: All right, Well, this sounds like a normal word, renormalization, 135 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: but I'm guessing it has some pretty deep mathematical consequences here. 136 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: For particle physics, it comes from the word normalization, and 137 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: normalization is just to make something normal. But in mathematics, 138 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: when we say making something normal, we don't mean make 139 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: it usual or typical, or you know, like when you 140 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: were a kid it. What we mean is that we 141 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: make it all add up to one or fix it 142 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: to some specific number, right to sort of calibrate it 143 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: almost in a way. Yes, calibration exactly. And so renormalization 144 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: is like, oops, something went wrong and now we need 145 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: to do it again. It's like, you know, you thought 146 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: you had your spendometer working correctly on your ferrari, and 147 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: then it turns out you were going one sixty when 148 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: you thought you were only going eighty. So you gotta 149 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: recounty account. You gotta renormal make it normal again, make 150 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: it normal again, make it the old familiar ferrari or 151 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: electric charge that you knew when you were a kid. Okay, 152 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: And that's exactly the issue here is that we ran 153 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: into a problem when we were trying to calculate the 154 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: electric charge of the electron. It sounds pretty basic, isn't 155 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: the electron something we've known for a long time and 156 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: know what the charges? You think? So, right, it's sort 157 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: of like how we defined electric charge. It's like, you know, 158 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: Ben Franklin or whoever you know first identified this as 159 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: moving charges. Define charges to be plus and minus, and 160 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: that's where the electron charts comes from, right. It's the 161 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: carrier of the minus one charge, is like the definition 162 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: of what the charge is, right right? Oh, I see, 163 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: So an electron has a negative charge one, it's sort 164 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: of the definition of charge. What are the units electronus? Well, 165 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's defined in terms of cool ombs, but 166 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: it's a crazy number in terms of cool ombs, and 167 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: so we just in particle physics, we'd like to drop 168 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: all the units and redefined everything, and so we just 169 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: call it one e like one electron charge. That's the 170 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: unit alright, So it's kind of like the standard. It's 171 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: kind of like the standard. But the problem is if 172 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: you say, okay, I have a little particle and I'm 173 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: gonna put a minus one charge on it, and then 174 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: you put that into an experiment and try to measure 175 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: the charge of it, you would actually measure zero. Like 176 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: you shot other electrons at it, you would measure almost 177 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: zero charge. It sounds like a big area here. You're 178 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: expecting minus one and you got zero. Yeah. So the 179 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: electron can't have charge minus one because if it did, 180 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: we would measure zero. And the reason is that the 181 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: electron is never just by itself, right, It's not like 182 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: a whole universe populated by just an electron. Instead, the 183 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: electron is surrounded by space and space is never empty. 184 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: We've talked to this podcast a lot of times how 185 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: space is not just the backdrop of the universe. It's 186 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: this crossing quantum mechanical weirdness that can do stuff we 187 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: don't understand, like expand and wiggle and stretch, and their 188 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: deep theories about space that people are working on. We 189 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: talked about Steve Wolfram's idea about space and quantum foam 190 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: space and like it's a huge question marks empty space 191 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: is not empty. Empty space is not empty space. Sometimes 192 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: that space out when I think about it, but there's 193 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot of it. That's the one thing that's still true. 194 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: There's something to it, and somehow that's affecting what we 195 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: measure about the electron. Yeah, because space is filled with energy, 196 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: and energy can turn into virtual particles, particles that pop 197 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: in and out of existence really briefly. And when that happens, 198 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: usually you get a pair of the particles like a 199 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: plus one and a minus one that pop out together 200 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: because it has to balance out, like you can't just 201 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,599 Speaker 1: introduce more negative charge into the universe. You kind of 202 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: have to balance it out. That's right, There still follows 203 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: some rules, right, Virtual particles are not a total free 204 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: for all. They still have to observe the rules of 205 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: the universe, and one of those is that the pluses 206 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: in the minuses have to balance out. And so essentially 207 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: any electron is surrounded by a bunch of positive negative 208 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: charged particles. So then the electrons field, the electric field 209 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: that it creates, it pulls on the positive part of 210 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: those virtual particles, and it pushes on the negative part 211 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: of those virtual particles. But they don't exist. They do exist, though, 212 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: they do exist briefly, right and constantly. It is a 213 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: frowthing swarm of these particles. And so what it does 214 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: is it like polarizes the vacuum. It pulls the positive 215 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: part of these virtual particles closer, and it pushes the 216 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: negative ones away, and it has the effect of essentially 217 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: shielding the charge of the electron. Oh, I see, But 218 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: they don't exist, though, do they They actually pop into existence? 219 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: They do exist, They actually do pop into existence. Yeah, 220 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: And you know, this is the kind of effect that's 221 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: very familiar. Like the reason you can't use your cell 222 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: phone inside an elevator is that electromagnetic field can't penetrate 223 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: very well through metals because metals are filled with little 224 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: charge carriers electrons, and when electric field passes through metal, 225 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: the electrons will like rearrange themselves to cancel out any field. 226 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: It's called a Faraday cage. Okay, So then if you 227 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: have an electron, it's gonna pull these virtual plus particles 228 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: to it, which then cancel it it out. Is that? 229 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: What is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, but 230 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: these per virtual particles are also like possetrons or are 231 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: they you know, imaginary? Are they actual like you know, 232 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: ions or muans or what are they? They're actually all 233 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: kinds because you can have any kind of virtual particle. 234 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 1: You can have virtual particles that are pairs of electrons 235 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: and positrons, like you said, you could also create muons 236 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: and anti muon. You can create quarks and antiquarks. You 237 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: can create anything you like out of the vacuum as 238 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: long as you observe the conservation laws, and then most 239 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: likely you're going to create the lowest mass particles. So 240 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: usually you're going to get things like electrons and positrons. Okay, 241 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: but they're sort of virtual because they're popping into existence 242 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: and popping out of existence. But there's enough of them, 243 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: and there's a constant popping in and out of existence. 244 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: That effectively they are real. They count as if they 245 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: were there. And so what happens is that you you 246 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: shield the true charge of the electronic it reduces it. 247 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: It like screens the charge sort of like if you 248 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: want to know how cold it is in your freezer, 249 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: but all you can do is measure on the outside. Well, 250 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: you're not really measuring the true temperature inside your freezer, right, 251 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: You're shielded by all the insulation, and so that's essentially 252 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: what's happening here. So then if all electrons then are shielded, 253 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: how do they even work? Yeah, Like if I have 254 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: two electrons in space and they're shielded, then they wouldn't 255 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: repel each other. That's true if electrons charge is actually 256 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: minus one, But it's not. That's the kicker, that's the renormalization. 257 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: The charge we measure is minus one. Right, electrons do 258 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: repel each other. You're right, electricity is real. Right, we're 259 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: not repealing electricity today in the podcast, which is canceled 260 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: the electricity exactly. But what we've discovered is what we've 261 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: been measuring for more than a hundred years is not 262 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: the true charge of the electron. It's this shielded charge. 263 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: We're measuring the electron on the outside of the freezer. 264 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: That charge is minus one. What is the electrons true 265 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: charge behind all that shielding? That was the new question. Oh, 266 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: I see it's in the freezer, and we didn't really 267 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: know how cold it is or how electrically charge it is. Yeah, 268 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: and we sat down to do these calculations. We realized, wait, 269 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: isn't there a big effect from this freezer, from this shielding, 270 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: from the screening, from all these virtual particles. And people 271 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: started calculating. The realized, yeah, there is. So if electrons 272 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: had charge actually minus one, we should be measuring zero 273 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: charge experiments, but obviously we're not. So they went back 274 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: and they said, how much do we have to dial 275 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: up the charge of the electron before we get a 276 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: measure charge of minus one to extrapolate through this cloud 277 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: of particles and say, what's really going on in there? 278 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: So what we see of the electron when we measure 279 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: as its charge is what we measure through the installation, 280 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: this virtual installation that that you're talking about. That's right, 281 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: and so the question is what's its true value inside? 282 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: That's right. Let's pull back a layer of reality and 283 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: say what is really happening. Okay, it's not just minus too. 284 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess you know it's gonna be totally unsatisfying 285 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: and frustrating, like usual with particle physics. Great, well, I'm 286 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: looking forward to Daniel. So let's get into it, and 287 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: what does a real charge means of the for the 288 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: electron and for mass and for the entire universe. But 289 00:15:51,440 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break. Al Right, So an 290 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: electron doesn't have the charge of an electron apparently depends 291 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: what you mean by an electron. Up is not up, 292 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: and the electron doesn't have electron on an electron. No, 293 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: it's really it's about definitions, and that's where we're gonna 294 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: end up today, is talking about like what it means 295 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: to be an electron. Because the thing we measure you 296 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: call that an electron. You know, some weird quantum dot 297 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: with all of its shielding and fuzziness and virtual particles 298 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: all around it. That thing has charged minus one. But 299 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: if you try to penetrate that cloud and say this 300 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: bit at the core, the true electron, the fundamental electron. 301 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: Because we're interested in understanding the deep nature of the universe, 302 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: not like the effective, messy, sloppy things we can actually measure. 303 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: We want to, you know, penetrate all the way in 304 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: and see what's really happens to see it's not I 305 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: guess celebrity. You know, they're surrounded by all this hype 306 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: and people and you never know really who they are 307 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: on the inside. And so that what we're doing today, 308 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: we're peeling back the layers of stuff to get a 309 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: real sneak pick at the electron inside. That's right, So 310 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: what what is the real charge in of the elector 311 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: when you get through the electrons entourage? What you discoverage 312 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: is to make the measure charge minus one, you have 313 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: to set the true charge. And particle physics we call 314 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: this the bare charge, like an electrono by itself to 315 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: minus infinity, like what the bare minimum? You know, just 316 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: a small thing like minus infinity. I know. I remember 317 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: learning about this and thinking, oh, renormalization. Okay, so you 318 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: gotta adjust the charge of it's going to go down 319 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: to one and a half or two or whatever, and 320 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: then discovering you gotta minus infinity. What that doesn't even 321 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: make any sense? That's great. You can't call that renormalization. 322 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: How can how can you say that an electron has 323 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: a negative charge of negative infinity. What does that even mean? 324 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: It's hard to understand, and you know mathematically what happening 325 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: is that the more the electron is charged, the more 326 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: it gets shielded. Like, the more powerful its charges, the 327 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: more it polarizes the vacuum around it. If you crank 328 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: it up to minus two, you don't get much measured charge. 329 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: You've got to really crank it up incredibly just to 330 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: get any measured charge because it works against you. There's 331 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: no limit to these virtual particles. I mean space is 332 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: full of them. And then what does it mean, like 333 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: whenever you discover an infinity and particle physics, space is 334 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: full up to infinity, Like space has an infinite number 335 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: of virtual particles all the time everywhere. Yeah, an infinite 336 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 1: number of virtual particles. That is true, it's not an 337 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: infinite amount of energy. So there's an infinite number virtual particles. 338 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: The number of them increases as their energy decreases. So 339 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: it's rare to get a high energy virtual particle or 340 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: a high mass virtual particle. It's totally common to get 341 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: an almost zero energy particle. That the smaller the energy, 342 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: the higher the probability and so as that goes to zero, 343 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: you literally get infinite numbers of particles. But anytime you 344 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: get infinity in a particle physics, like you say, okay, 345 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: this particle has minus infinity charge, that tells you you're 346 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: doing something wrong, not just this particle. Imagine it then 347 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: applies to all particles. Yep, this does actually apply to 348 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: every single charge particle in the universe. That's right. So 349 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: that's a pretty big problem. And you know, we should 350 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: not be throwing stones at Einstein when it comes to like, 351 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: you know, by making big corrections to basic facts about 352 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: particles in the universe. So so my intuition tells me 353 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: that it's it seems implausible, if not impossible, for every 354 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: particle in the universe who have a infinite charge. So 355 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: I guess, step me through what's going on, Like, where 356 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: does our model of the universe break that we have 357 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: to do this fudge? If it is a fudge, No, 358 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a fudge. But what you have 359 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: to do is renormalize your theory of a particle, your 360 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: idea of what a particle is. Like we've been thinking 361 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: about electron as a tiny individual dot, like a basic constituent. 362 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: You know many lego brick out of which stuff in 363 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: the universe is made out of, right, But instead that 364 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: doesn't physically make sense. It has to have negative infinity charge. Instead. 365 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: You need to think about the electron, not by itself. 366 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: The whole concept of an electron only makes sense together 367 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: with this virtual swarm of particles. So that's not separate 368 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: from the electron. It's not just an electron in the freezer. 369 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: The freezer is part of the electron. Oh I see. 370 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: Just gonna pull back your definition and ignore what's inside 371 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: of the freezer is kind of what you're saying. That's right. 372 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: It's like you say, hey, I'm not going to clean 373 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: up my living room. Messiness is my new living room, 374 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: and that's just you know, this is how I live now. 375 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: This is the new clean. Right, that's a renormalization. Oh 376 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: I see, okay, God, messiness is a new clean, Infinite 377 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: particles is a new emptiness, and negative charge isn't a 378 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: new minus one? Right, and space is the new not nothingness. 379 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,239 Speaker 1: Trust me, this all makes sense. Okay, got it? Got it? 380 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of what you're saying is 381 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: just ignore what's inside of the freezer and just don't 382 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: open the freezer. Don't even think about what could be 383 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: in there, growing you know, who knows what. Just lock 384 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: the freezer, throw away the key, and just deal with 385 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: the freezer. Yeah, And the thing to remember is that 386 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: when you get an infinity to the answer to a 387 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: physics question, it tells you that you're asking a question 388 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: that doesn't really make sense or that isn't really logical. 389 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: Here is another simple example. Say you wanted to know 390 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: what's the force on my head from all the stuff 391 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: in the universe that's on my left. Well, the universe 392 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: is infinite, then there's literally an infinite force of gravity 393 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: and electromagnetism and all that stuff on your head from 394 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: that side of the universe. Now there's a whole other 395 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: side of the universe that also has an infinite force 396 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: from the right side of the universe, right, and and 397 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: they cancel each other out to get basically zero force. 398 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: So asking that kind of question just means there's an 399 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: artificial distinction that you've introduced. The infinity comes only because 400 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: the question you're asking doesn't really make sense, like what 401 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: is the left side of the universe or the right 402 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: side of the universe. In the same way, trying to 403 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: separate the electron from the rest of the universe and 404 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: asking what is its charged all by itself, that doesn't 405 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: really make sense. You have to think about the electron 406 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: as part of an interaction. I mean, the electron has interactions. 407 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: It It sends off photons constantly. It's not doesn't really 408 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: make sense to sort of draw a dotted line just 409 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: around it and say, only think about this bit. I 410 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: think I understood that a negative infinity amount. I feel 411 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: like what I feel like you're saying, that's just ignore 412 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: this little weird fact and just not think about it 413 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: and just go with the flip. No, don't ignore it, 414 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: but just redefine the question you're asking. It's just like 415 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: in Douglas Adams. You know, if you ask a question 416 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: and get a nonsense answer, you have to go back 417 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: and think about maybe I should ask a better question. 418 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: In this context, asking what is the charge of the 419 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: bare electron doesn't really make sense because that's not a 420 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: physical thing. You will never have a bare electron. There 421 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: will never be an ale tron without its entourage. That's right, 422 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: only in a universe in which there is only electrons 423 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: and there are no interactions at all, which can't exist. 424 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: So I guess you're saying that what's inside the freezer 425 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: doesn't matter because we'll never open the freezer, or they'll 426 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: never be something without a freezer, that's right, And we 427 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: can't open the freezer. So even though you would predict 428 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: that there's negative infinity charge inside of the freezer, that's 429 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: probably not what's going on because we don't really know 430 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: when we never will open that freezer. Yes, except we 431 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: have ways to partially crack open the freezer. Yeah, all right, 432 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: because this is a virtual cloud of particles, right, and 433 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: we can penetrate it. Like if you shoot an electron 434 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: at another electron really hard, it will get through more 435 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: of that virtual cloud. Then if you shoot an electron 436 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 1: at it really gently. And so it turns out that 437 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: the harder you shoot one electron at another, the stronger 438 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: the charge you measure. So the charge of the actron 439 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: depends on the energy of the particle you're using to 440 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: measure it. So the electron doesn't just have a charge 441 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: of minus one that you measure or minus infinity inside 442 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: the freezer. The answer depends on how much you've cracked 443 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: open the freezer, how much the entourage gets out of 444 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: the way, or something. Yes, so you can get through 445 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: this virtual cloud of particles partially. You can never get 446 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: all the way, but the more you probe in there, 447 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: the stronger the charge of electron that you measure. So 448 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: it's sort of is like a real physical thing. You 449 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: can poke at the freezer and kind of take a 450 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: peek inside, and it does look like it's almost negative affinity. 451 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: Is that kind of what you're saying. Yeah, you can 452 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: never get to negative infinity, but the higher energy you 453 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: probe with, the stronger the charge you measure. And so 454 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: that's also sort of like, you know, a bit of 455 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: a brain scramble. You're used to thinking of the charge 456 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: of the electron as a basic fundamental constant, right, Well, 457 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: it turns out it's not constant. It depends on the 458 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: energy at which you're probing the electron. So the charge 459 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: of an electron is not then one of the fundamental constants. No, 460 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: it's not, or basic constants not. And we talked about 461 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 1: this on a podcast recently, how there's a different constant. 462 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: It's called the fine structure constant that includes the charge 463 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: of the electron and the speed of light and planks 464 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: constant because those things themselves are not actually fundamental constants. 465 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: Only in combination the ratio especial ratio of those things 466 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: are fundamental constants. I see. So I guess what you're 467 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: saying is that if I shoot an electron with a 468 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: fast enough electron, I would maybe measure it's charged to 469 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: be negative infinity. Yeah, it had to be infinitely fast 470 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: electron that you're shooting. The faster the electron that you're 471 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: using in your gun, the stronger the charge you measure 472 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: on the electron. Well, I feel like we're throwing infinities 473 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: all around, So why not let's just throwing infinite a 474 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: number of infinitely fast electrons. Now there's just no rules, right, 475 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: It's like whatever anything can happen doesn't even matter. All right. Well, 476 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: that that's pretty wild to know that the electron has 477 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: this kind of hidden and maybe infinite charge. And so 478 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: I guess the question is, how does that affect what 479 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: we thought about the universe or how we look at 480 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: things like mass or you know, effic goes to me 481 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. So let's get into it, But 482 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: first let's take a quick break. Al Right, So apparently 483 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: the electron has possibly a negative infinity charge if you 484 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: can get to it, if you can get past a 485 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: cloud of virtual particles that surrounded and protected and kind 486 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: of shielded from the rest of the universe. And so 487 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: that's a wild concept, Daniel. Now, what doesn't mean about 488 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: what we know about the electron? Well, it's not just 489 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: the electron. Remember, all charged particles have the same property 490 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: that they shield themselves. And what we're measuring is really 491 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: the variable strength of the electromagnetic interaction. And the higher 492 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: the energy you have, the stronger this interaction is. And 493 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: so what it tells us is that the particles by 494 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: themselves is unique. This bare particle, the stripped of all interactions, 495 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: is not a physical thing that we should be thinking about. 496 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: And we need to renormalize our idea and think about 497 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: the particle together with its entourage. That really defines who 498 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: it is. Because you know, if you met a celebrity 499 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: without their entourage, they probably wouldn't seem that famous either, 500 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: would they. It seemed normal and down to earth. I 501 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: don't know, you tell me you've met me in person, Daniel, 502 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: what is that? I had to fight my way through 503 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: your entourage? Um? All right, So so that's kind of 504 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: what this renormalization means. It's like kind of like getting 505 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: used to the entourage of particles, and it doesn't just 506 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: apply to the charge. It turns out that most of 507 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: the fundamental characteristics of the particles have this same property, 508 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: that they have a measured value and then a weird 509 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: it's sometimes non physical sort of bear true value. I mean, 510 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: like some of the other quantum charges like color and 511 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: spin and things like that. Just like that. Yeah, the 512 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: strong nuclear force also has its strength vary with the 513 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: energy of the particles that are shooting at it. But 514 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: I think one of the weirdest things is the particle mass. 515 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: Like we think about mass and sort of like a 516 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: defining characteristic of a particle, like what's the difference between 517 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: an electron and muant while a muan is heavier, right, 518 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: And we identify particles by their mass, But it turns 519 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: out that what we measure, and we measure the mass 520 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: of the particle is not actually like the true fundamental 521 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: mass of the particles, not the mass the particle would 522 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: have if it was all by itself in the universe 523 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: with no interactions, right, because instead of virtual particles that 524 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: it interacts with, it interacts with something else, the Higgs field. Right, 525 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: that's right, all particles moving through the universe are interacting 526 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: with all the quantum fields that are around them, and 527 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: what happens when they interact is that you know, those 528 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: fields amid little particle for them to interact with. And 529 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: so you can imagine like an electron flying through the 530 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: universe and it can emit the Higgs boson and then 531 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: it can reabsorb that Higgs boson. That's effectively what's happening 532 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: when it's interacting with the Higgs field. It emits a 533 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: virtual Higgs boson and then re absorbs it. And it 534 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: can do that, or it can do admit to Higgs bosons, 535 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: or that Higgs boson can split into other particles and 536 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: then come back together. There's millions of different possible things 537 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: that could happen as an electron is moving from A 538 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: to B. And so we've talked before on the podcast 539 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: about how the Higgs boson gives particles mass, and we 540 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 1: say this this field that fills the universe, and interacting 541 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: with that field gives those particles masses. But we sort 542 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: of dot dot dotted over that critical bit, like how 543 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: does interacting with a quantum field give a particle mass? 544 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Right? Well, there's the analogy of 545 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: like moving through a crowded party or something, right, Like 546 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: you're trying to move, but the field is throwing particles 547 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: at you, and you're throwing particles at and that's kind 548 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: of what inertia sort of is. That's exactly right. And 549 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: if you want to go from A to B and 550 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: you talk about a particle having mass, then it takes 551 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: energy to speed it up as it's going from A 552 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: to B, or it takes energy to slow it down, 553 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: and it turns out that's inertia, right, And that can 554 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: be exactly modeled as a particle interacting with the field 555 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: because as it goes along, you can admit a particle, 556 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: you can absorb a particle. There's all these complicated interactions 557 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: that can happen, and those interactions have exactly the same 558 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: effect as if you just gave a particle inertia sort 559 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: of by hand. Those interactions all add up to create 560 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: this effect that we describe as mass. Like it again, 561 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: this is a separation between like our macroscopic observations of 562 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: stuff and the microscopic explanation for what's really happening, and 563 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: the macroscopic thing were familiar with is like, hey, stuff 564 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: seems to have inertia. You know, you push on a 565 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: heavy rocket, takes a while to get it going. You're 566 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: downhill from a heavy rock, you better move out of 567 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: the way because it's hard to slow down, right, And 568 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: that macroscopic property turns out to be explained by all 569 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: the little particles inside it interacting with the Higgs field, 570 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: with virtual particles, with virtual particles exactly, that's the key, 571 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,239 Speaker 1: are you saying, sort of like all particles, and it's 572 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: not just their electrical charge, You're saying their mass. It's 573 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: also kind of insulated by these virtual Higgs boson clouds. 574 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm saying that what we call an electron that has 575 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: mass is actually an electron with a swarm of Higgs 576 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: bosons around it. That's what it means for an electron 577 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: to have mass, is that it's sort of clouded by 578 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: the Higgs field. And so an electron moving through universe 579 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: with no Higgs field would have no mass. Right, So 580 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: what we call the electron is not really just the electron. 581 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: Is the electron surrounded by this swarm of virtual particles 582 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: it's constantly interacting with. So in the same way we 583 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: renormalized our concept of the electron as the electron surrounded 584 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: by its virtual screen of particles shielding its charge, we 585 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: all also have to include for the electron when we 586 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: think about its mass, we have to think about this 587 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: virtual cloud of particles it's interacting with, because that's where 588 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: it gets. It's like, it's like kind of like what 589 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: you're saying is that all of these quantum fields and 590 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: the universe are all sort of connected to each other, 591 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: and so you can't really talk about one thing because 592 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: it's it's all connected everything. Nothing can exist on its own. 593 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: That's right. We've got pretty spiritual pretty quick there. Man. 594 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: Maybe we're connect Man, it all is just a renormaliz 595 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: past that do be over here, man, I want to 596 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: be normalize. Yeah, exactly. Got to smoke your banan appeals. 597 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: And you've got to understand that these particles, they're not 598 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: on their own. They're just fluctuations of quantum fields, and 599 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,959 Speaker 1: these fields are all interacting with each other, and so 600 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't really make physical sense to say, what is 601 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: the mass of this one little particle, what is the 602 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: charge of this one little particle. You've got to think 603 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: about it together. But you're sort of saying that particles 604 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: don't have mass without the Higgs field, right, that's exactly right. 605 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: If there was no Higgs field, these particles would all 606 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: have zero masses. And so the bare mass of these 607 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: particles in the limit where you think about the non 608 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: interacting is zero. All the particles in the Standard model 609 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 1: except for the Higgs boson, have bare mass of zero, 610 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: and they all get their masses through this virtual swarm 611 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: of craziness. And it's not just actually through interacting with 612 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: the Higgs. Like the electron also gets more mass because 613 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: it emits photons. I know, that's especially weird because photons 614 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: have no mass. Right, in addition to interacting with the Higgs, 615 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: they get mass from photons. That's right, they get mass 616 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: from photons. And now, if there wasn't the Higgs, the 617 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: electrons would have no mass. But because they're the Higgs, 618 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: photons can add mass to the electron. It's like multiplicative, 619 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: like they make it have, you know, they multiply its 620 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: mass by a certain factor. If it was zero would 621 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: stave zero. But since the electron gets some mass from 622 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: the Higgs, the photons boosted. Remember mass is also related 623 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: to energy, and in a sense, what we're talking about 624 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: is how the electron has a lot of self energy. 625 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: It's constantly emitting and absorbing a swarm of photons, and 626 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: those contribute to its effective mass, which is what in 627 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: the end we measure. We only measure, you know, physical things. 628 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: We can't actually measure true things about the electron. If 629 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: it was all its only in the universe. I feel 630 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: like you guys wanted to call it naked charge, but 631 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: you were, but you still have backed down. You're like 632 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: to naked charge, but we can't. It's called naked charge. 633 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 1: It's called bear charge, and thus confusing everyone because they're 634 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: like bears. What do you mean, like like a bear? Exactly, 635 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: it's one of the bare necessities, you know, exactly, all right, 636 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: But then does the electron then have a constant mass 637 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: or does it also vary like it's charge, It also varies. Yeah, 638 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: all these quantities actually vary with the energy you're using 639 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: to probe it. But last time we talked, that's in 640 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: the mass of the particles were constant in the universe. No, 641 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: you're totally right, And what we actually mean when we 642 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: say those constants is we mean the strength of the 643 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: interaction with those particles and the Higgs field. That's what 644 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: controls the mass but the mass of you measure and 645 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: individual experiment does depend on the actual energy of that experiment. Wow, 646 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: so now we also have to redefine mass mass um 647 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: doesn't exist. It seems it's inside the freezer. Yeah, everything's 648 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: inside the freezer. This is something that helps you also 649 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: understand how the universe could have been very different in 650 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: its early years, because in the very early moments of 651 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: the universe, Remember, things were hot and dense and nasty, 652 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: and all the particles had a lot of energy, and 653 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: all these forces charge, and the strong nuclear force and 654 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 1: the weak nuclear force, all of them depend on the energy. 655 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: And so back in the early days of the universe 656 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: we think that maybe all the forces had the same strength, 657 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: and that what's happened since then as things cool down 658 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: and things got slower and calmer, is that these things 659 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: have different like variations with energy. You know, one of 660 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: them drops really quickly as things go to low energy, 661 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: another one drops really slowly. But back in the early days, 662 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: things were glorious and unifisity. Back then, thanks are normal 663 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: Then we denormalize kind and now we've got a renormalize. 664 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 1: You got a normalize. And but I have to say, 665 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: none of this makes me feel normal at all, Daniel, 666 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: you just told me that the electron doesn't have a 667 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,720 Speaker 1: charge and it doesn't have mass, so it's not easy 668 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: also for particle physics to accept this. There are a 669 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: lot of years when after people made this discovery that 670 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: you have these weird infinities in the theory, that they thought, well, 671 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: the theory must just be wrong, right, there must be 672 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: a problem with the theory. And then people realized, oh, well, 673 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, you just redefine what you mean by an 674 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: electron and then you don't have to worry about those infinities. 675 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: And a lot of people objected. They were like, you 676 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: can't just do that. You can't just define your living 677 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: room to be clean now, but if you don't have 678 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: any better ideas that you can. But but but it 679 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: turns out you can. If yours is the only house 680 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: in the universe and you're the only one person living there, 681 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: you didn't define it however you want. But then there 682 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: was a guy Ken Wilson, who is sort of an 683 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: underappreciated genius, who sort of made a deeper point about 684 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: the whole nature of the universe, and he said, you know, 685 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: nothing is really constant. Everything depends on energy the physics 686 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: you measure depends on the energy you're using to measure it, 687 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 1: so it's totally natural for things to vary. In fact, 688 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: the mistake was to expect anything to be constant. So 689 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: he said that the grandest renormalization of them all. I see. Wow, 690 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: he like dropped the mic. He's like, bam, I just 691 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: redefined normal exactly. He redefined what success was. All right, Well, 692 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty interesting and mind blowing to like 693 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: think about what happens when you actually get down to 694 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: that level. You know, when you try to get down 695 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: to the zero size of the electron, what happens and 696 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: how things kind of blow up mathematically. Yeah, and we'll 697 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: always struggle to explain the microscopic in terms of ideas 698 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: we invented as macroscopic meanings, and there's no guarantee that 699 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: we're going to succeed. But when those ideas break down 700 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: is when I think we get the greatest insights into 701 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: what's really happening down there. We know that there's not 702 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: really particles, they're not really ways, they're weird quantum fluctuations 703 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: and fields, and they're not just isolated little dots. And 704 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: so that's I think when physics has to confront our priors. 705 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: Are assumptions, are basic instincts, and discovery that they're wrong 706 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: are when we can make a big step forward in 707 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: our sort of intuitive understanding. Well, thank you, Daniel. I 708 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: feel like that for the rest of to day, I'm 709 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: going to be thinking about naked electrons, naked higsons. This 710 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: is all cleared by the Emotion Picture Association of America. 711 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: That's right to this rated P for physics, some naked 712 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: particles may appear. All right. Well, we hope you enjoyed 713 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: that discussion and learn a little bit more about what's 714 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: really the charge of the electrons and what's really the 715 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: massive things and what happens when you get down to 716 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: where things are not normal. That's right, and I hope 717 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: that this podcast on renormalization has renormalized everybody else out 718 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: there to be an at home particle physicist. Thanks for 719 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, and 720 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is a 721 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my 722 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 723 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.