WEBVTT - Labor Days 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:06.279 Yo, I don't have anything that goes with this episode. 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.960 If the beats coming on, I'm just I can't hear you. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:17.200 I'm just gonna wrap. I'm just gonna wrap. Fucking I'm wrapping. Yeah, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:19.560 I can't say that I'm a dog and I bust 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.720 much loves, but I get legally insane and I've done 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.320 much drugs. No, dude won't see me with a change. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.319 There's no punch drunk love. Because when I'm not rapping dog, 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.680 I used to run bust um. Then the brothers started servant, 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.040 thought the cash and start turning, started getting determined. I 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.760 tell that I started learning with all the effort I 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.720 am served, thinking that it might just work. Broke my leg. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.879 They made me off. This fucking stage is right to 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.560 work now that the unemployment they nobody noticed. I can't 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.680 even get my check on times. Motherfucking COVID and these 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.440 kids all in the house. And you know the ship 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.840 is not the dopest. I've passed it off to link 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.760 with Franker. She gonna drop some mo ship workers ship 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:01.000 the boxes they Slipper and Chipper whenever talking and whipping 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.720 the shock of carts. It's active beer in the walkings 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:05.560 and tact them with legal cart and to keep our 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.480 king at him for the stock and not financial market solvent. 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.680 They're clocking for fifty fitty bucks in there, the coping 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.960 of like sixty fifty chucks and gets spit on my 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.679 sitting ducks. And they are sick getting fucked. So if 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.119 you ever wanted to honor them, he has not asked 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.039 for all mohammedans. We boy Cotton, Amazon and Target and 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.399 FedEx and Walt Martin and Cicario Hope Foods until the 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.000 fucking boss's bargaining workers won the company. That is in 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:36.399 any arguments, So argue with them, are you with a alright, alright, alright, alright, 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.080 welcome back. I'm dope nice, I'm lingua franca. We're waiting 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.800 on reparations. Hurr. Yeah. We're here to talk about a 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.959 little bit of politics from the lens of hip hop. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.080 Hip hop from the lens of politics, and particularly today 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.080 we are talking about the labor movement in America, the 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.800 way it affects black people, the way it affects rappers 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.960 or doesn't uh. And we're gonna have of my good 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.360 friend ironmy o s from Pong, a community organizer, host 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.160 of the YouTube show The Black Athenians and a PhD 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.600 student in philosophy at the University of Georgia here to 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.400 talk to us today about the labor movement's history, it's importance, 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.160 and the promise of a federal job guarantee. And I 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.160 want to start off talking about some shitty jobs that 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.480 we've had, our own personal experiences with the necessity of 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.120 workers coming together to organize for better working conditions and 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.040 better pay, because I've definitely had some jobs are just 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.760 like what the fun So wait before you we get 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.200 into what the jobs have been, what was your first job? 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.360 My first job ever? I was a I worked at Sonic. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:39.600 I was one of those people that brought you the 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.560 tray out to your car. I did not wear the 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.240 roller skates, yet I could not keep this movies from 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.280 hitting the parking lot pavement even just standing. No, no, 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.080 I would routinely drop things like on my own two 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.359 feet sands like wheels beneath me. So I never got 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.960 to that level of like skating around. But uh yeah, 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.840 just like sat in the back ate a bunch of 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.760 fried macaroni and cheese nuggets. I was there for like 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.480 a couple of months. Yeah, yeah, I got I got 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.000 sick one time and I couldn't come in and they 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:18.359 and they fired me and that was it. I was sixteen, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.600 my first job was I was sixteen as well. I 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:24.640 wish it was like something like Sonic Goes for the 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:31.080 State Department. It was that the the US for the 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.240 embassy in Singapore when my father was stationed there. It 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.400 was like a summertime thing. They just had me doing 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.760 like clerk stuff. Okay, that was like my first experience 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.240 in the job market. You know what I was thinking 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:42.680 when I was looking at the notes for this and 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.560 you were saying that we should talk about like shitty jobs. 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.080 It's gonna be hard for me just because like being 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.920 like sitting down there and like really recollected. I haven't 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.600 had many jobs, just a couple for a long time, 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.280 you know. So we worked on the service and straight 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.560 from yeah, I was always bartending and serving off and on. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.800 Whenever music was slow, that was what was paying the bills. 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.240 So it's like, you know, that was always my steady 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.640 thing that I had while I was pursuing, you know, 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.360 other creative artistic ventures and ship. But as I was 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:21.599 touring and releasing music and stuff, that was I must 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.960 have split a ten year span between like two different 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.839 places as a bartender or waiter, and it wasn't shitty 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:30.520 Like I liked it. I like the people that I 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.440 worked with. For the most part, it was like you know, 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.400 it was. It was a lot of work in very 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.240 high demand. But over the years, the grind of it 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.800 made it shitty. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.000 it's not like it grinds, it grounds you down, you 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.360 know what I'm saying, and you start getting that, what 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:51.080 then am I doing with my life type ship? You know? Yeah? Yeah, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.080 I've worked all kinds of jobs. I was like a 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.960 door attended at the cafeteria in college. Also in college, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.159 I was in the summertime somewhat of a carney. I 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.680 worked at a ball toss booth at the Asheville Tourist 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.279 Baseball Stadium. So I pretty much just stood in the 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:12.320 hot sun um with people that drunk, unamused white people 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.880 trying to throw balls at this thing for hours and 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.760 hours as a clown or something. Did not have a 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.520 dress up like a clown. I have this little polo 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:21.520 I had to wear in like khakis. It was chill. 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.280 I pretty I think they've hired me for the job 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.680 because I looked somewhat like a clown, and my brother like, oh, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.440 sounds great, she'll be perfect. Um. Yeah, I've always worked 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.720 multiple jobs. Worked in a print shop here, I worked 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.840 as a bouncer at a bar in town. I worked 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.240 as a wedding caterer. Like, I've consistently had multiple jobs 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.920 just to like get it all together rant wise and everything. 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.400 And I'm still work like three or four jobs, like 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:46.919 and then like this is the first time in my 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.760 life I'm like above like the median income for like 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.680 the area. Like you know, it's still taking you know, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.240 being on the commission, working on this podcast, freelance music stuff, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.200 teaching it's teach to the University of Georgia, all this stuff. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.200 Like I still and I probably, oh, I feel like 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.200 I always will because I have that, like say, on 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.640 your grind mentality of like you have to always hustle, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.200 you have to have multiple things going on in order 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.240 to like to live. And I just think it's it's 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.400 part of that capitalist mentality of like your worth is 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.599 measured by your productivity. It's the grind of life. It's 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.600 it's the grind of life. Yeah, but I mean it 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:34.320 doesn't have to be this way? How do we get here? 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:39.000 The Wagner Act, officially the National Labor Relations Act, established 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.840 the legal right for most workers most workers to organize, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.120 enjoy labor unions, and bargain collectively with their employers, which 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.480 was a huge deal. You know, finally people could negotiate 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.040 with their employers about health insurance, about pensions, about working 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.359 conditions you know, we don't have we like, we have 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.360 hours that are too long. We you know, work in 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.760 the heat, we work in the snow. We don't like that. 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.000 So people are actually able to like collectively come together 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.560 to say, like, yo, without us, without the people running 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.800 this shop, y'all don't have a paycheck either, So let's 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.640 come together and decide what's going to be best for 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.160 everybody who's actually running this whole place. It was also 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.800 a huge deal that predominantly black workers in the farming 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.200 and domestic sector, like our cultural people the help you know, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.840 like your your nurses aids, your people, like that your 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.920 housekeepers were accepted from coverage under the Wagner Acts. So 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:35.720 while people in mainly white professions unionized and collectively bargained 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:41.080 for better working concisions, pensions, medical insurance, job security, better pay, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.160 and without this bargaining power, black workers were trapped working 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.880 grueling hours for next to nothing at the whims of 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.520 the season. When it comes to you know, they're determining 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:53.520 their economic security. In the beginning of labor in this country, 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.520 there was this racial divide which has expected. They always 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.560 want to divide and conquer when it comes to the 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.480 working class. Like, okay, if black and white people come 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:07.520 together to negotiate, we're but like, if we can make 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.680 it so that, oh, the white the poor whites are 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:11.560 just a little bit better than the poor blacks, and 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.800 they can like have this reason to be like, oh, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:18.040 we're not so bad and none of us actually take 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:24.239 on the big money interests that are screwing everyone, screwing everyone. Yeah, so, 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.720 speaking in big money interests. A number of bills have 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.080 passed since then, notably the Taft Hardly Act in n 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.480 and the land Rum Griffin Act of that we can 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:38.239 the Wagner Act establishing right to work laws, banning secondary boycotts, 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.240 and limbering the right to pick it. In February nineteen 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.640 sixty eight, during a violent rain storm, to black sanitation 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.079 workers in Memphis, Tennessee, were killed when heavy rain caused 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.680 barrels of heavy garbage to crush them. That sounds like 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.240 a fucking terrible way to die, it really does. It 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.760 sounds like some fucking final destination ship. Their death jump 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.800 started the most important civil rights and labor rights campaign 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.400 in US history. In response, sanitation workers went on strike 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.360 and took to the streets and with signs bearing familiar 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.439 phrase of civil rights struggle, I am a man. They 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.080 went without pay for the duration of the strike and 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.080 faced the wrath of the mayor, Henry Loeb, who had 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.880 declared the strike illegal, and sick racist cops on them 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.400 in mass for sixty five days. Hundreds of black sanitation 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.680 workers demanded safer working condition in fair pay. Martin Luther 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.760 King Jr. Was actually in Memphis supporting that strike when 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.040 they shot him on the balcony. And it's been positive 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.000 that like when he was talking about rights for black people, 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.200 like he was hated and he was feared and the 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:39.760 FBI was trying to get him to kill himself and 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:41.920 all that ship. But it was when he started to 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.840 turn his campaign towards okay rights for workers, like labor 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.200 rights for all people, the poor wife as well as 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:50.839 the black. So that's when they were like, Yo, we 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.480 got to stop this motherfucker. We needed to, yeah, take 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.800 him out because this is getting really really dangerous. One 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.400 of the things when like you go back and actually 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.000 like watch a lot that stuff to read a lot 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:05.520 of stuff is like how much of the your communist 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.040 attack was used against m Okay specifically because he was, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.160 you know, I mean working on behalf of like working 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.800 people and stuff like that. But you would think that 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.200 It's almost like at some point they started realizing that 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:24.640 just simply going at him under like the racial you 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.480 know side of it wasn't going to be enough. That 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.400 they started like throwing it, Oh, he's a communist, he 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:30.480 wants to say, you know what I mean, he wants 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.080 to bring him Yeah, they had to bring him labor. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.320 They had to bring in economic policy in order to 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:40.800 like make him are true threat. Yeah. Yeah. So ultimately 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:45.000 the sanitation workers were successful, achieving unionization, say if we're 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.920 working conditions, some of them gaining promotions at their jobs, 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.440 and for many Black Americans, unions have ever since been 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.720 a life changing ladders to the middle class. Working unionized 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.800 black women, according to the Economic Policy Institute, or paid 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.840 just nine point nine percent of what their black male 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.040 counterparts make, while non union black women make just of 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.280 their counterparts. Yeah, and this is according to the Economic 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.960 Policy Institute, which also showed in a separate study that 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.000 unions helped raise the wages of women in black and 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.040 Hispanic workers, whose wages have been historically lagging behind those 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.720 of white men. As well. They showed that black union 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.959 workers more likely to have employer provided health insurance and 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:30.320 roughly more likely to have employers sponsored retirement plans. So 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.000 unions work, and the benefits are even greater. For black 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.040 union workers who haven't completed high school. The study shows 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.040 that they have nineteen point six wage advantage over their 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:43.240 non union union peers, and are more likely to have 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:48.080 health insurance and tent more likely to have retirement plan, respectively. 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.959 So if y'all niazeta make it through high school, join 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.599 a union or organizing workplace for real. Even in the 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.640 right to work state like Georgia, I mean, like so 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.600 here in Athens, we have a chapter are a local 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.439 of the Communication Workers of America that represents everyone that 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.199 works at the University of Georgia. I say everyone loosely, 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.680 because in a right to work state, you can't be 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.880 forced to pay dues to a union that is still 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.320 organizing on your behalf, even if you're not a member UM. 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.640 But nonetheless they've been working on stuff like fairer health 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.720 insurance conditions, even down to small things like the fact 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.800 that employees have to pay to park at their place 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.080 of work. It's like forty bucks a month, which like, 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.559 if you're not making ship is a big deal. Yeah, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.880 and it is. It matters because the University of Georgia 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.360 is the biggest employer and Athens UM, which has a 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.439 nearly it is it is, and it has our town 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.080 has a nearly poverty rate. Of course, they have all 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.240 these statistics on like the students and how well the 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.280 students do, but when it comes to the quality of 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.680 life and other such facts regarding the folks that actually 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.040 work there and keep the campus running, not as easily 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.120 found UM. So there's a lot of discussion of like 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.600 there has to be some sort of connection between the 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.520 fact that the largest employer in Athens is the University 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.720 Georgia and we have one of the highest poverty rates 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.960 in the state and in the country for a city 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.240 of our size, So like, what what is that link? 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.319 What is that link. Is it possibly that they're not 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.040 paying people in I mean that's the argument recently movement 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.560 that grew out of a controversy related to slave graves 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:27.280 that were desecrated in the in the renovation process of 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.400 one of the academic buildings. They claimed so some of 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.600 the demands made by the group that was raising awareness 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.920 about that issue, it was like living wages for all 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.560 the employees of the University of Georgia. I think of 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.840 whom are like black. Like if you if you look at, um, 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.680 the maintenance workers, the lawn workers, the custodians, like the 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:52.120 folks working at the bottom. The folks working at the bottom, um, 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.280 So those are the those people are the descendants of 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.320 the slaves that they found under the fucking building when 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.160 they were renovating it, right, you know, if they have 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.200 lived here generationally, and this all getting paid pretty much 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:05.600 slave wages to maintain the University Georgia, just like slaves 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.959 used to be least to the University of Georgia to 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.320 like maintain their campus and work for the faculty, etcetera. 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.280 I mean, I'm not an economist or anything like that, 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.439 but if it's the largest employer and they're still afforded. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.360 I mean, there's something weird about that. I mean, but 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:24.160 I've definitely heard that like dynamic described when when people 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.280 are talking about like Walmart or something like that, where 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.760 it's like, oh, well, Walmart, um, all of their employer, 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.920 you know, a large percentage of their employees are on food. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.720 As a result, then the taxpayers ends up paying for 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.120 the employee instead of Walmart giving them a living wage, right, yeah, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.720 exactly exactly. And it's like if they're keeping people in 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.760 poverty with the wages that they pay, that the onus 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.360 of dealing with that poverty then falls on the local government, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.560 which I work in, and so then that's our problem. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.280 And then why that why that is additionally interesting is 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.040 that the University of Georgia owns the land and Athens 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.720 and they don't pay any fucking property tax on it. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.640 And so not only are they keeping people in poverty 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.440 with the wages, they are also not paying into the 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.800 solutions for poverty through taxes to the local government. So 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:20.000 it's like doubly on us to racket. It is a racket. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:21.760 It's completely racket. I mean, at the end of the 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.200 what the fund is the point of working if you're 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.640 not going to get paid enough to even live, you 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.080 know what I'm saying. I mean, is that part of 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.520 the plan, you know, because because it's obviously not like 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:38.000 this is just like some coincidental works out. It's warfare, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:42.400 it's class warfare. It's like, we hate you that you live, 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:44.880 so we're gonna make it so you can't live because 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.280 we just despise your existence, gonna make your life as 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:53.000 hard and uncomfortable as possible. So I'm proud. I'm proud 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.040 member of c w A Local three two oh three, 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.720 you know, organizing for better conditions, better for folks at 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.080 the University of Georgia, because it's been theorized that like 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.200 if they were to raise there is that organizing Is 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.520 that something specific to UM so I think they organized 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:16.280 for University System of Georgia employees all across Georgia. Yeah. Yeah, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.400 But like it's tricky us being a right to work 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.680 state and everything, you know, right to work laws like 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.960 we live under in Georgia have been a rallying point 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.800 for the right wing throughout the twentieth century. Who we 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.080 can work or power and the interests of big business. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.280 And as I stated, and I will continue to state, 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.680 motherfun class warfare, white supremacy, and rights to work clause 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:36.520 have gone in hand in hand for a long time. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.600 In fact, Vance Muse, who is often credited with popularizing 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.280 the term right to work, probably told the Senate Committee 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.320 here in I am a Southerner, and I am for 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:50.480 a white supprescy. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the games made by the 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.880 black labor movement in places like Memphis of Kundor under 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.560 attacked by Donald Trump, who in two thousand and eighteen 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.160 signed a series of executive of orders that stifled the 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.679 ability of federal employees to organize. So, nonetheless, there's been 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.040 renewed interests in labor strikes since the pandemic and racial 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.200 justice uprise and began. It's more and more working class 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.320 folks realize how essentially they are to keep the economy 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.720 running and consider the way that work stoppages and labor 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.840 disruptions can distruct the economy and draw attention to issues 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.560 and important ways that can't be done through mass mobilizations 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.600 like marches protests on their own. In April, Amazon workers 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.439 were reporting crowded spaces required rate of work that does 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.840 not allow for proper sanitizing of workspaces of empty containers 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.280 that are meant to whole sanitizing wipes and workers who 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.080 were testing positive but told by human resources to keep 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.400 it on the down though, and they got fed up, 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.080 so said an Island Amazon fulfillment center worker, Christian Smalls, 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.640 but a group of colleagues from the building during lunch 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.160 hour to call for the building to be temporarily closed 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.040 and for it to be stringently sanitized, as well as 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.840 for workers to be paid during the hiatus. Several had 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.960 become sick and he was pretty immediately fired for standing 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.880 up to them, which is a very real outcome when 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.399 people organized in their workplaces like this. If you're not 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:13.000 under a contract that permits UM organization, if you're not 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.840 represented by a union, this the thing cantially happen. And 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.440 for example, when we were organizing the strike for Black 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.680 Lives here in Athens, there were some very real concerns 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.520 among some of my fellow organizer. It's about what protections 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.720 would we put in place to make sure striking workers 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.959 UM would not be retaliated against what happens if they 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.040 get fired and they lose their income. Especially during a pandemic, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.480 there's so many UH people looking for work that they're 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:42.199 very easily replaced. We all just really regardless ultimately expendable. 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:45.280 But we have to kind of put this in the 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.920 context of the massive amounts of unemployment that we're having 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.200 this country right now. Unemployment is jumped into the double 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.399 digits since February when it was around I think like 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.480 three and a half percent, with now about three About 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.320 thirty million or so people plucked the unemployment betterments and 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.640 state governments struggling to keep up with all the payments 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.800 given a glutted and overrun unemployment benefits system as well 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.120 as state revenue shortfalls. And on top of that, six 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.639 hundred a week boost unemployment benefits expired on July. So 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.640 between essential workers agitating for better protections to pay and 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.879 those who have been laid off and left out to 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.320 drive by Congress that can't seem to pass or dude benefits, 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.840 it wouldn't surprise me if we see even more people 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:27.679 in the streets in the coming weeks and months. But 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.159 at a time when we have so many unemployed, it 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.640 puts workers at it in an even more precarious situation, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.400 it is arguably, and they could be easily replaced by 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.639 the many who are currently unemployed if they rise up 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:52.000 to demand better from their employers. And so while some 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.000 have responded to underair working conditions and unfair pay by 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.359 taking the streets and demanding them, others have turned to 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:04.520 wrapping truck as responses to the economic exterity of times 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.320 like the Reagan era. And I bring us up because 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.679 it was really interesting when we were doing research for 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.400 the music portion of our show. You were looking for 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.440 songs that pertained a labor that pertained to the nine 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.920 to five that we could discuss. It was interesting that 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.200 most of the work that is discussed within hip hop 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.520 culture pertains to like street corner work, like night night jobs, 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.920 like you know, running running things. Yeah. But anyway, we'll 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.879 come back to that in a moment. First, we're going 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.040 to bring in our guests. My friend I ro M 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.760 e O s a Frompong, labor activist and hosted the 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.040 YouTube show The Black Athenians. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Hello, Hello, 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.760 student of philosophy, I do study philosophy at u g 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.440 A Yeah, and general Rabble rouser, host of The Black 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.640 Athenians on YouTube every Friday. I have been known from 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.760 time to time to raise rabble Yeah he does, yes, 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.800 he does yes. So how are you today. I'm doing well. 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:01.840 I'm doing well. We're gonna talk about freedom and music. 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:03.840 How's that time? Yeah, that's that's great to me. That's 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.160 all I want to talk about. Yeah, so let's start big. 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.119 We've been talking about, um, the history of labor movement. 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.880 But why why should labor issues matter the black folks 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.120 of the hip hop and post hip hop generations? Well, 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.200 black people work for a living. I don't know. There's 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.080 this great staple singer song when when we get paid 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.600 for the work we've done, like, we work for a living. 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.400 Working people. Everybody in the United States works, but Black 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:27.879 people have always been working, and a lot of the 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.800 Black experience is a work in person's experience. So to 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:33.480 pretend that we don't work for a living and we 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.040 don't work hard, whether we're hustling or like working for 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.960 some man, is just a lie. So we need to 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.240 figure out honestly, as black people, we need to know 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.320 what it means to both be free and work, and 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.880 especially be free and work for somebody who's not us, right, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.119 because we don't get treated like employees in these United States, 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.200 We're still gonna getting treated like slaves. And there's a difference. 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.000 There's a difference. Employees get big cation time, they get weekends, 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.400 they get time off, they can clock out, they get 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.040 sick days, they get they get healthcare of the employed. 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:12.760 Being an employee isn't a bad thing. We want employees 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.240 in the United States, like we have an advanced economy. 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:19.199 I want Amazon, I want grocery stores, and all of 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.040 that takes employees. I don't want to be growing my 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.200 own food, like not all the time. I want to 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.760 be able to go to store, buy an avocado, have 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:28.399 money in my pocket because I work and get a 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.280 paycheck like I want, we need. This is a nation 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.880 of employees in the United States. A small business, according 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:38.000 to the government, is five hundred employees or a fewer, 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:41.760 which means most people work for other people. So how 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.480 can you both be free and be an employee at 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.160 the same time, and especially if you're black, how can 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:51.000 you both be free and an employees because quite white 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:56.200 employees get plaid. Fine, they got four one kids. I want, 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.520 but I want all of that stuff too, I want, 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.200 I want, I want, I want all too. So the 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.639 idea is that America has made it so hard for 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.639 black people to be employees that we just assumed that 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:08.320 will I guess we've got to start our own business 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:10.160 and then right, And I really want to talk about 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.359 that because especially with the hip hops emphasis on being 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.520 an entrepreneur, because the hustle being like I am my own, 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.240 my own, my own boss, because I'm out here on 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.400 the street corner, I'm not here hustling, and so like 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:23.560 why like where why do you where do you think 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:26.120 that came from? Well, the problem is being a black 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.560 employee is so bad in the United States. It's just 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.560 taking the shine off of work. I can taking the 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:32.720 shine off being employed like we go. It's so the 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.960 question is being a slave or um being out there hustling, 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.199 you know, and hustling you you're just a slave to 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.080 the market. It's just another form of slave, another form 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.080 of tunity because if you don't hustle, you don't need 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:46.399 but you're also eating risk because what you're doing might 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:50.080 be quasi illegal. So um, black people actually start more 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.679 businesses than our white counterparts. They just go under faster. 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:58.320 But because we live in a capitalist economy, which means 0:23:58.400 --> 0:23:59.920 that in order to start a business and have it 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:05.960 actually succeed, you need investment capital, right, and you can't 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:07.960 we don't have the investment capital. We just don't have 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:09.960 it like that, and our cousins don't have it like that. 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:14.119 So um, we start more businesses, but they go wonder 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.360 because we actually don't have a labor floor that one 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:19.760 can purchase our wares too, that can float us the 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:22.600 investment capital you need. I see, I spent time in 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:25.720 Silicon Valley. I did my undergrad out in Berkeley, spent 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:29.360 a lot of time Silicon Valley. UM, And you gotta understand, 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.600 those guys are funded for their fourth business. That means 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.040 the people who give them money expect them to lose 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:39.040 three times. So like, do you have thirty k black Man, 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:42.200 or anybody who's watching this video, do you have thirty 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.840 k to just try something and then lose and then 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:49.800 go back to that same source since it were I 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:54.280 guess you'll never believe it. You'll never believe it happened. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:56.600 But I tried, real heart, Just give me another thirty 0:24:56.680 --> 0:25:00.359 kye and and I think this time I'll do it again. 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:03.680 So when you're fine, when you're really serious about getting 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.159 in the business, you need money to lose and to 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:10.320 try stuff. If it's just well, I got this, you know, 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:12.200 I saved up about five K and I think I 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:14.960 could try something. And then when you get wiped out 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.040 because you needed to try and you took a chant 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:22.080 and it didn't work, it takes you ten years to 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.880 get to scrap up another five k to try it again. 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:25.960 You're not gonna grow that way. Are you gonna try 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:28.560 it again even the first time around? Like, if it's 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:30.920 gonna take you ten years, if it just wiped everything out, 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:35.480 you can't date because you're too busy saving. So we 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:40.120 need an employment floor where like you can work, save 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.280 up money, have a steady job, be black on the 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:45.200 job because a lot of people might think that's the thing, right, 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:48.600 So a lot of people might not know this, but 0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:50.960 you can be fired for being black and caring about 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:53.200 black people. I'm sure a lot of people who might 0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:56.400 listen to this podcast might have been fired or having 0:25:56.440 --> 0:25:58.200 a talking to you for standing up for black people. 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:00.280 Because standing up for black people is day us in 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:04.199 this private market. So if you so, you have to 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:06.560 also you have to do the job, but then do 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:08.960 the job in the way that makes your white boss comfortable. 0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:13.600 And that's an extra whole job. So on top of 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:15.480 that job. And that's why you know, we die a 0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:19.639 stress because that second job is a lot of job. Um, 0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:22.119 but you have to understand that that is a second 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.440 job that we shouldn't have to do. We should just 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:26.840 be able to do the first job. Right. So we 0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:28.560 need a world where we can just do the first 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:31.480 job and not the second job of making white people 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:34.159 on white white people comfortable. And then that way we 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:35.800 could sustain the job. And the job needs to be 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:38.359 paid so much that we could work the job for 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:41.560 a while, save up and then like do a project, right, 0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:44.360 you know, going a nice vacation'll save up for a business. 0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:46.080 But that means it can't be at like nine dollars 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:48.720 an hour. You're ten dollars an hour. You're just working 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:50.720 to work and then you die, You stroke out and 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:52.800 die and at the end, and that's not freedom, that's 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:56.360 not self determination. You're still and you can't clock out 0:26:56.400 --> 0:26:58.480 like you got a bad back because it's nine dollar 0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:00.639 an hour. Job is bad for your back. So I 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:04.720 heard I read this great book by Elizabeth Anderson. She 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:08.040 wrote a book called Private Government, and in it she 0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:13.440 has a story about Amazon, this Amazon warehouse where uh, 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:15.879 they had a choice, right, they had a choice to 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:20.080 either have an HVAC system installed or for heating and 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:24.160 cooling to keep the workers you know a lot, or 0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:29.840 they could just park um emergency vehicles outside so when 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.960 like now and then and pass out, they could just 0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:36.040 rush them to the hospital. Right, so let me guess, 0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:39.959 let me guess what happened. You can imagine how that happened. Right, 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:41.760 So they were just like, well, we'll just have emergency 0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:45.520 vehicles outside so like we can just rush them. That's 0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:48.600 not that's not like I'm I don't want to get 0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:50.439 rid of Amazon because I like clicking on things and 0:27:50.480 --> 0:27:52.919 having it delivered. But I need to know that the 0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:57.560 people in Amazon as workers are treated with dignity. So 0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.840 I'm not against big businesses. I just don't organize them 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:03.919 so that they can um come together and negotiate their 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.680 conditions about uh, you know, how much to set the 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:13.119 HVAC system, Like it doesn't I like sixty eight, but 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:17.680 I can negotiate up to seventy two. That's fine, but 0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:19.760 this hundred and four and just wait till I pass out. 0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:21.399 Then you get it just a new Negro to come 0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:23.679 take my place. I don't want that. I don't want 0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:25.520 that to be our life. And then the idea that 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:27.080 well you can just quit that job and get another 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:33.000 job with the same conditions conditions. That's not that's not 0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:36.360 a success. That's not freedom. Right. So freedom means being 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:40.520 able to work your job, work, have like some sort 0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:43.160 of say in your working conditions, be able to clock out, 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.840 be able to be stacked in cash as you're working 0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:48.800 to then do something else. If you want to do 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:51.880 something else, I'll hop to another job. But try a business. 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:54.120 You've saved up because you don't make nine dollars, you 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:57.080 can actually save because you make twenty two. Um, you 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:00.600 saved up. You try something, it fails, you have another 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:04.520 job to go to. UM, you can fail and try things. 0:29:04.560 --> 0:29:07.320 And that that's that's what self determination looks like. And 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:09.560 I just want to say real quickly that you have 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.040 to understand that when the Constitution of these United States 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:16.880 was organized, in mind the founders had when they said, like, well, 0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:20.800 you know, we're gonna restrict suffrage to UH to property 0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:25.400 owning white men. That's both racist and sexist. But more importantly, 0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:29.160 in their mind, they had the idea that everyone was 0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:32.880 going to be self employed except for slaves. Everyone was 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:36.200 going to be self employed employee like employment was seen 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:38.200 as a season right, you do it when you're young 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:41.280 for a little bit. Then eventually this is pre industrial Americas, 0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:43.800 the seventeen seventy six industrial the Continent and all. That's 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:46.240 not until the early eight hundreds, right, So they were 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.680 organizing the United States for a nation of people who 0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:52.800 are self employed. The problem is these United States that 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:57.600 we currently live in, the workforce works for somebody. So 0:29:57.640 --> 0:29:59.440 we need to understand what freedom looks like in a 0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:02.120 world when most people work for other people. And that's 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:06.320 why you need labor law. That's why you need, um uh, 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:08.360 just a sense of freedom. I think you need a 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:11.200 federal job guarantee. Let's talk about that because I mean, 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.080 we have a culture here within hip hop where like 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:15.920 people are people are working nine to five, So we're 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:17.200 gonna derectly we're gonna have to talk to you you. They 0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:18.520 don't want to talk about it in their music, and 0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:21.080 so it's obscured. It seems like everybody's out on the street. 0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:23.360 But it's like, nah, I know you're working over at 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:25.760 Very Queen when you do the studio. So we're not 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:28.120 talking about the fact that we're all working. We're all working. 0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:30.440 We're all working, and so we need to shift that culture. 0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:32.640 But I think a federal job guarantee could be a 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:36.080 huge boon to black Oh yeah, because before that, and 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:37.400 I wondered if you could tell us a little bit 0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:39.240 about that, why, why it works, what it be. So 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:41.720 a federal job guarantee just understands that you can't be 0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:44.280 free in a market society unless you have one a valued, 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:49.080 recognized place in the market society, and two you have 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:51.600 money in your pocket. America's got to drink minimum. Like, 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:54.040 if you don't have money, you're always you spend half 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:55.960 your time in these United States trying to get away 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.720 from the bouncer, trying to pretend that you've already have 0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:01.680 two drinks, just taking you're taking up and pretending edit yours. 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:05.800 So um, you have to understand that America cost money. 0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:09.120 We have loitering laws in Georgia made four black people 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:11.880 pretty much because America costs money. And if you don't 0:31:11.880 --> 0:31:15.960 have money, you don't belong here, So we need you 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:19.400 shouldn't exist. There was no place for you here. So 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:21.959 we need if we're going to have a market society, 0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:24.040 which I think we should, we need a way to 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:28.120 secure people the means to actually make money and not 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:31.480 just money so that you know they can live, but money. 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:33.760 That's so that they can actually determine what they do 0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:40.560 money so that they can have hobbies and make moves. Yeah, 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:44.160 the extra money right. So, um, so this federal job 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:48.760 guarantee would be a job doing the market infrastructure. Um, 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:52.720 that's not being that's not being taken care of by 0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:55.120 the private market as it is. For example, right now, 0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:57.760 to get into an elder care facility, some people might 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.840 know at home, it's anywhere between like three eight thousand 0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:05.520 dollars a month. So are you telling me that everyone 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:09.920 who grows old has access to three and eight thousand 0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:12.600 dollars a month, or it's the case that the only 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:15.120 people who get to grow old with dignity are people 0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:17.240 with access to three and eight thousand dollars a month. 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:19.240 So what happened that the black people? That's at us? 0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:23.240 So that's not us, right, So what I'm saying is like, 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:25.880 you need a federal job guarantee to secure the rights 0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.880 and the dignity that's afforded to everybody else for everyone. 0:32:29.920 --> 0:32:34.120 So you're talking about having Okay, let's elder care, yes, 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:36.880 other care wellness checks because people are growing old alone 0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:40.520 with their house growing around them, like elder care deferred maintenance. 0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:44.920 In the American South, we have a hookworm problem. Hookworms 0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:48.120 hookworms because you know what, it turns out that if 0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:51.600 you're living out and renting a trailer and someone's and 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:56.520 someone's um spot and the septic system breaks, Yeah, that 0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:58.760 ships coming up. That ship literally is coming up to 0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:02.000 you're playing and ship like and so you pick up 0:33:02.000 --> 0:33:03.920 with hook and the American South has a hookworm problem. 0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:09.720 Is just google it and um and your landlords in Atlanta, 0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:13.400 so they don't care. And so it's twelve thousand, twelve 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:19.320 K to fix the um septic system. And if you're 0:33:19.360 --> 0:33:21.280 living in a trailer, you might not have access to 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:26.360 an extra twelve k. Yeah, would you believe you might 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:28.040 not have access to that extra twelve k to fix 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.480 a sective system. So pretty much people are like walking 0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:34.200 around in their own poop. And this is all over 0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:38.040 the American South. Lead pipes like that's like people just 0:33:38.080 --> 0:33:44.680 talk about leaded water and flint. Now, no, look anyway, 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:47.720 you see a congregation of black people check the water 0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:50.960 because like, these public services haven't made it to the 0:33:51.000 --> 0:33:54.000 neighborhoods that can't pay the property taxes or for some reason, 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:56.120 like we just decided not to give them the goods. 0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:59.680 So we need these federal jobs that will rip out 0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:02.880 the pipes, that will fix the septic system, that will 0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:04.920 do all this deferred Maybe we have, like I don't, 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.360 We have about sixty years with a deferred maintenance in 0:34:08.400 --> 0:34:10.360 the American South. And the South is actually a pretty 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:14.040 great if you give me a cultural and material infrastructure. 0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:16.320 The South is a pretty great place to live because 0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:18.759 the weather is nice. Yeah yeah, but I need a 0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:21.280 cultural and material infrastructure I don't want. I don't want hookworms, 0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:23.520 I don't want leaded water. I don't want to live 0:34:23.520 --> 0:34:26.800 around black people who will also don't have hookworms and 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:29.960 leaded water. So like I need an infrastructure, and that 0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:32.200 means we need like this work done. So there's work 0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:35.120 to be done, and the federal job untee would provide 0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:38.000 the material and cultural infrastructure, not just material about the 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:41.879 cultural infrastructure. For example, in order to have this fantastic podcast, 0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:45.640 you can't just be someone with great ideas. You need 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:51.000 like a studio and an engineer and a distribution network 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:55.080 and nice microphones and someone to maintain all of the 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.920 information and then and then someone to process this when 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.759 it's all done. Those are all good jobs. Um, and 0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:04.520 those are all good jobs that will actually sustain that 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:08.000 that makes places livable, that makes places livable. An you 0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:09.839 think of federal jobs are and he comes into play 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:13.959 with a cultural infrastructure. The only reason we know who 0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:17.520 Arthur Miller is or Orson Wells is if you do 0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:19.600 know who those guys are is because they got their 0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:22.719 start in a w P A theater and writing. Arthur 0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:24.640 Miller is a playwright, wrote Death of a Salesman and 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.319 some other things. Orson Wells its Citizen Kane. You might 0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:30.000 have heard of it. It was in all the papers. Um. 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:35.200 But they were both w P A Works Progress Administration. Um, 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:37.600 there's a big government jobs program. And the thirties started 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:41.360 by uh FDR and the guy started like three point 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:44.920 five million jobs over the course of two months. And 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:48.800 that's when they had information technology was was it rotary 0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:51.839 phones and like carving copies? Right, So like we could 0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:55.560 get an infrastructure, a cultural infrastructure, because culture is how 0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:57.440 you learn how to what to do with your freedom. Right. 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:00.239 Nature teaches you what to do through biology and its think. 0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:04.120 Culture is what teaches you how to manage your freedom, 0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:07.200 how to make choices in a responsible way and in 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:11.360 a way that actually like supports the people around you 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:13.799 and treats people like people, because people who are uncultured 0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:17.360 have a hard time treating other people like people. So like, 0:36:17.480 --> 0:36:20.960 culture is what teaches us how to use our freedom responsibly. 0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:23.719 So you need cultural artifacts, not just clean water, but 0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:27.919 also music studio is a community music studio right now 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:30.400 and Athens is this great space called Newtie Space is 0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:32.560 great if you can pay, but you can only pay 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:36.320 Newti spaces. I've never actually been there. You have, you's 0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:40.080 been there space. It's got music studios there. Nonprofit. They 0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:43.000 fund uh, they take the money they get from running 0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:45.200 up the space for on equipment and they fund mental 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:48.040 health care for musicians, um and so. But yeah, you 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:49.759 need money in order to come in and get the 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:52.400 rehearsal space, get the recording space. That would be great 0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:56.200 if that would like a library, so like we had, 0:36:56.280 --> 0:36:59.239 it would be like the equivalent of what this great 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:03.040 nonprofit us. But for people who can't rent space, for 0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:06.040 people who just because who mind doesn't need it, because 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:09.640 you know what, Apparently people who don't have the resources 0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:11.880 to rent space sometimes have ideas that might need to 0:37:11.920 --> 0:37:15.840 be expressed and could use the space and then to 0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:18.520 rent practice rooms for musicians, because sometimes you don't want 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:20.560 to rent your practice in your apartment it might be 0:37:20.600 --> 0:37:24.520 a loud so. Um, so the idea is that something 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:28.120 like new t space shouldn't just be available for people 0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:32.600 who can pay a prohibitive amount of money. And people say, well, 0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:34.239 you're talking about giving these goods away from free, And 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:37.400 I'm like saying, like, look, man, if we already didn't 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:42.439 have public libraries, do you know how hard it would be? 0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:47.359 What do you mean? So I got this idea, so like, 0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:49.799 hear me out hear me outright, So if we're gonna 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:51.680 be in a democracy, we all need to be able 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:54.279 to like get information. So I think we should like 0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:57.399 have this building and then pay people to call them 0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:59.480 librarians to sit in this building and have like all 0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:02.000 the books so that people can get But then how 0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:04.200 do you make profit? Now? Okay, so wouldn't be for profit. 0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:06.719 It would just be like a cultural infrastructure, but you're 0:38:06.760 --> 0:38:09.520 just giving it away for free. But like, for sustaining 0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:12.560 our democracy in a responsible way, you need people to 0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:16.840 actually get information. And so yeah, so like these ideas 0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:20.080 sound radical, but um, also I'm gonna I'm gonna mention 0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:22.719 one one great book that just came out called They 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:27.880 Were Her Property, by um professor out in in Berkeley, 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:31.799 and uh, she was like, look, we have all of 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:36.960 these histories of you know, postbellum South, like you know, 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:41.280 early twentieth century South, but they're all the only histories 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:43.960 we have for women are from like the elite diaries 0:38:43.960 --> 0:38:47.120 of white women. So it's possible we're getting a skewed 0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:50.040 view of the story because all we have is like 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:55.480 Scarlett O'Hara like. So she went back into the archives 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:57.600 and went to a w p A project because in 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:00.680 the thirties one of the cultural products was taking all 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:04.480 histories from people who used to be slaves or were 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:07.160 born right and the right at the aftermath of the 0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:10.239 Civil War. So she got all of their domestic help. 0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:15.320 So she had access to the archive, the old archives 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:17.480 of the domestic help of these women. And it turns 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.040 out that some of these white women were lying about themselves. 0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:25.200 They were they were not the best bosses, and would 0:39:25.239 --> 0:39:28.520 you believe what do you believe? You believe? And they 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:31.240 didn't mention that in their little diaries, but you talked 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:34.080 to their domestic help and they told all the stories. 0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:36.120 So she wrote this whole book called they were Her Property, 0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:37.640 because it turns out a lot of these white women 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:41.560 slaves were were owned by women, so like so they 0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:44.640 talked about it was it was the story of life 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:49.960 in America from the viewpoint of you know, slaves. And 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.040 the only reason this happened was because of this w P, 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:57.920 a project that was providing a public cultural infrastructure. That 0:39:57.920 --> 0:40:00.120 book just came out last year. So a project that 0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:04.560 happened in the thirties provided the subject material for us today. 0:40:04.600 --> 0:40:07.480 Like if you're up to me, I think every person 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:10.240 as soon as they hit seventy years old, you get 0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:12.879 three people. You get a knock on the door with 0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:17.399 a sound gat, a sound person, a videographer, and like 0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:22.520 you know, a mixer. Three people that come to your place, 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:26.400 and for one hour you get to tell your side, 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:29.479 every single American. And then it's just putting a digital 0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:32.720 archive stored at the Library of Congress, every single American. 0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:34.600 Because now we just get the side of the people 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:37.959 who can afford to have their story told. I want 0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:41.600 every person. You earned it because you hit seventy you 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:43.160 just tell and you just tell them and we just 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:45.560 walked through the day. All right, tell me about the sixties, 0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:48.440 Tell me about the seventies, tell me about the eighties, 0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:50.239 tell me about the nineties. You just walk through the 0:40:50.280 --> 0:40:52.000 decades and you get an hour, and you I want 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:54.440 three hours, right, So they come back the next week. 0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:59.239 All right, we just and and we do it exactly 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:01.920 and that person just gets to tell their side, and 0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:05.879 then it's archived, stored at the Library Congress anybody who wants. 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:08.279 It's just a part of public archive. That's an interesting idea. 0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:10.120 I think it's a great idea, and we actually have 0:41:10.239 --> 0:41:11.759 the resources to do it, and that would be one 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:14.600 of the public jobs, being a videographer. So from nine 0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:16.680 to five, you just drive around to old people's houses, 0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:19.160 you set up the microphone, and you get their side. 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:21.200 So this is actually an interesting take that I had 0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:23.439 not thought of with the Federal Jobs Guarantee before because 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.400 I was thinking about like public utilities and like infrastructure 0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:29.040 that can cultural infrastruct So like these people who are 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:31.360 currently working at Dairy Queen and who have these videography 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:33.200 skills but don't have the money and perhaps by the 0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:36.439 equipment and all of that kind of stuff. Now they 0:41:36.480 --> 0:41:39.640 have a job with the federal government going around recording 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:43.000 the life stories of yes, And I think that's a 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:45.680 very important job. I think that's a very that's at 0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:47.839 least as important as whatever you're doing at dairy Queen. 0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:50.719 I think that like that archive will actually sustain our 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:53.080 culture in a way and kind of tell us about 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:55.359 who we are in a way that maybe we don't know. Yeah, 0:41:55.719 --> 0:41:58.359 and and while also giving this guy a good job, 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:00.839 I want Bernie sand does it. Talking about a federal 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.799 job guarantee at fifteen are very up to me would 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:07.920 be twenty two. I have reasons for that. Well, okay, 0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:12.799 so up until nineteen seventy three. Um, and I don't 0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:15.799 know why. I mean, there's there's the hypothesis and why 0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:19.400 this is the case. But if wages match productivity from 0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:23.600 nineteen seventy three on, we'd be at an hour, right right, 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:26.640 But at twenty two, I mean, but in nineteen seventy 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:29.399 three the productivity skyrocketed, Well, we just stayed the same. 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:37.480 So like now we're just making more and just getting paid. Left. Yeah, 0:42:33.440 --> 0:42:39.719 it's so maybe it workers are not more productive, like 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.200 they get lesser share of the profity. So I would 0:42:42.239 --> 0:42:44.120 have this federal job guarantee be at twenty two doll 0:42:44.239 --> 0:42:46.040 an hour and that would be a job. So you 0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:49.160 do that, you get the skills of like you know, 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:51.640 going around, you're useful part of the community. You have 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.200 a dignified job, and you had at twenty two dollars 0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:57.040 an hour. You can save, you can you can buy 0:42:57.040 --> 0:43:01.759 your own equipment, your own studio album. Yeah. And if 0:43:01.760 --> 0:43:04.640 it doesn't and if it goes south, it's a job guarantee, 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:06.719 which means you just go back to the office and 0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:18.360 you get Yeah. So talk to me a little bit 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:20.960 about the impact that the Federal Jobs Guarantee has on 0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.719 the private market. Well, it would be jobs. It would 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:28.000 be doing jobs at the private market currently isn't doing. Right, So, 0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:31.920 the private market currently isn't providing elder care for people 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:34.880 who can't pay between three and eight thousand dollars an 0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:37.960 hour a month, three and eight thousand dollars a month, right, 0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:40.200 So the job would be that it would be like 0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:43.640 you're working an elder care facility because apparently poor people 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:47.720 grow old sometimes too. From time to time, they do age. 0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:51.480 So it would be doing jobs that i wouldn't necessarily 0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.719 compete with the market, but would extend market services to 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:57.960 people who can't afford it because like they can't afford 0:43:58.000 --> 0:44:02.200 what it is on the private market, right, so um yeah, 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:07.200 and the like I said, wealthy people have the disposable 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.400 income to get their septic system fixed. If you don't, 0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:14.280 then either we have in America where people live in poop, 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:18.680 or we have a federal job guarantee that includes like 0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:23.280 someone going to your place and ripping out your septic system, 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:25.840 right Sam, with elther cants and with lead and water. 0:44:25.960 --> 0:44:27.680 Right because right now there was no plan for flint. 0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:29.359 And like I said, it's not just flint. We both 0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:34.000 know it's not just flint. It's not just flint. I think, well, 0:44:34.080 --> 0:44:37.680 we know it's in Baltimore too, It's in Baltimore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.560 so it's not just flint. Like everywhere there's leading pipes 0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:42.480 that should be ripped out. But right now, the only 0:44:42.520 --> 0:44:45.200 people who can afford to get their pipes swipp out 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:47.440 of people who can afford plumbers, right, who had it 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:53.000 ripped out already you know, gave their child like brain cancer. 0:44:53.200 --> 0:44:56.000 Yeah like wait wait wait wait, So like one of 0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:58.919 the federal job guarantee would be like you know this 0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:02.000 kind of work, right, So what JO is doing back there? 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:08.000 You'd be producing like podcast for the people. So we 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:10.520 need to think about what kind of services are already 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:13.200 available to the Mike Bloomberg's of the world, and think, well, 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:17.000 maybe they should be available to nanny's. Also childcare, child 0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:19.400 chalthcare needs to be universal and this is a childcare 0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:23.520 and Nathens, Georgia right now. Yeah, you because like people 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:25.520 like to have kids and they shouldn't have And I think, honestly, 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:27.840 if you get rid of some of these other impediments, 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:29.480 like the abortion rate will go down because a lot 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:32.480 of people have to choose between living in abject poverty 0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:34.839 or having a kid. So suddenly if you have all 0:45:34.880 --> 0:45:36.920 the services you need, is like, I'll have this job, 0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:41.520 you know, raise this childishment when we punished for having 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:44.200 this job. So if we like, if we make having 0:45:44.200 --> 0:45:46.799 a child be less punishing, you'll, I think you'll see 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:48.480 the abortion might go down, and I think you'll have 0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:50.759 better parents because like you know, it turns out then 0:45:50.800 --> 0:45:55.560 when your parents twenty two jobs, they fight less. But 0:45:56.800 --> 0:45:59.080 going to vacation to Disneyland every year, that's lots of 0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:01.719 pictures and you can bring back in mouse ears. And 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:03.960 if you have a twenty two dollar now a job 0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:05.720 that you can clock out of that means you can also, 0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:07.520 like when you're off the job, you can go coach 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:11.200 your kid's team. Right, So there is a quality of 0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:14.760 infrastructure that I think that we just need to extend 0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:18.200 to everybody. American has a matter of right. Because the Founders, 0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:19.880 and I'll bring this back to the Founders before we 0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:23.719 tied this up, the Founders understood that tyranny because they 0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:26.320 were thinking about the tyranny of King George, the tyranny 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:29.280 of a foreign parliament. I don't want some foreign body 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:33.120 telling me what to do, so I want to govern myself. 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:36.040 But that's not the tyranny most people feel like in 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:38.600 their in their in their day to day life as Americans, 0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:41.839 right now, we're under the tyranny of our bosses. Like, well, 0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:44.399 that's the same, it's the same kind of tyranny. It's 0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:46.319 just not King George. It's like, what do I have 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:48.720 to I have to worry about my boss? Like, weren't 0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:51.280 like feeling some sort of way and getting into mood 0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:53.680 and then all of a sudden I'm fired. That's another 0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:58.000 kind of tyranny. That definitely is a tyranny. So what 0:46:58.120 --> 0:46:59.920 do you need to get rid of that kind of tyranny? 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:02.720 Like I said, this book Private Government by Elizabeth Anderson. 0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:04.480 I think it's really good on this score, but we 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.719 need to understand that as a form of tyranny, and 0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:08.520 if we're going to be free and self determining in 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:11.440 these United States, we need to get rid of the 0:47:11.480 --> 0:47:14.279 tyranny of the boss. That doesn't mean get rid of employers. 0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:21.840 That just means empowering employees and democratizing power, like on 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:24.640 the job. Well, how do you feel about like cooperative 0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:29.040 development and actually having no bosses? Well, the thing is, 0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:32.319 I actually like I don't mind big companies. I don't 0:47:32.320 --> 0:47:37.880 mind Walmart, I don't mind Amazon, I don't mind Kroger Um. 0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:40.279 I maybe I don't want to be a boss. That 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:41.719 should be a place for people who don't want to 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:43.640 be bosses either, and don't want that boy, they just 0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:46.080 want to work them, They just want to work. I 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:49.480 think there are efficiencies that you get from bigger companies. 0:47:51.520 --> 0:47:55.319 I just don't want the people who work for these 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:58.160 bigger companies, the black people who work for these bigger companies, 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:01.319 to be treated like slaves. Right, So I think co 0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:03.400 ops are fun. I don't think they work in a 0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:06.320 modern industrial economy. And like I said, I don't. I 0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:09.000 don't want to get rid of Amazon. I don't want 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:11.120 to get rid of big grocery stores. I think they're efficient. 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:15.480 The scale issues that like, for example, I don't want 0:48:15.560 --> 0:48:20.319 small farms necessarily. I don't mind big agriculture. We just 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.640 need sustainable big agriculture. We just need to agriculture that 0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:29.080 doesn't also damage the environment. Right. So, um, we we 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.400 just need to get if we're going to understand that 0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:34.279 we live in a world within our heart media, we 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:38.040 just need to make sure that everyone has access and 0:48:38.080 --> 0:48:41.440 that the employees of these big companies are treated with 0:48:41.480 --> 0:48:45.920 dignity and they're not punished for for working. Yeah, a 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:48.080 couple more things before we go. Um, I feel like 0:48:48.120 --> 0:48:49.680 I've heard you say before, and excuse me if I 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:54.360 get this wrong, but something like, um, the reactionary attention 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:57.240 that's paid within black culture and within hip hip hop culture, 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:01.680 in my view, especially um to police brutality and criminal 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:05.120 despers perform kind of takes away from attention that we 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:09.120 could be spending on jobs. So why is so, Like, 0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:11.200 how does that happen? First of all, how do we 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:14.480 get caught up on like reeling in the aftermath of 0:49:14.880 --> 0:49:19.640 police brutality? Incidents is rather than creating sustaining conversation about labor. 0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:24.360 I mean, we have such a confused labor discourse that, um, 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:27.080 it just kind of gets overwhelmed by the spectacular. I 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:29.399 mean I was, I was in Los Angeles and two 0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:32.240 were at you know, and at five o'clock, seven o'clock, 0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:34.239 and nine thirty you saw Wadney King just get to 0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:36.160 the ship be out of him. Like I was in 0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:38.960 l A when that, Like, when that happened, um and 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:46.000 the riots have in nine I think I was maybe 0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:50.560 I thought it was after No, No, you're right, yeah, yeah, 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:52.719 it was in the late eighties, still in l A. 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:54.920 And then I remember when the verdict got kicked out 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:57.319 in the vertict So anyway, yeah, but anyway, it was 0:49:57.360 --> 0:49:59.640 on it was on television all them. So there's something 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:01.920 spect occular about that kind of violence. And this is 0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:04.600 one of the reasons why, UM, pret last brutality was 0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:06.600 such an important part of the civil rights movement, Like 0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:09.120 we needed to dramatize the terrorism that black people are 0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:12.640 living under. So the conversation doesn't end there in terms 0:50:12.719 --> 0:50:15.480 of what sorts of violence we're experiencing. No, no, it's 0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:19.640 a terrorism and depression actually of just being a disposable population, 0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:22.560 we are a disposable population. And here's what happens. I 0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:25.520 think Los Angeles is actually a great example of what happens. 0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:31.520 If you just kind of handle the um mass incarceration 0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:33.880 part but don't do the economic part. You end up 0:50:33.880 --> 0:50:37.120 with a blood of black homelessness because they're still kicked 0:50:37.120 --> 0:50:39.160 out of the economy. The silly they might not be 0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:43.720 in jailable, they're not in jail anymore, they're still extra negros. 0:50:44.080 --> 0:50:46.760 We just have superfluous negroes because the private market doesn't 0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:49.040 want In New York, they put him in jail. In 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:51.160 Los Angeles, maybe they don't put him in jail, but 0:50:51.239 --> 0:50:53.640 they have no other place in the economy for them. 0:50:53.680 --> 0:50:57.040 So that's your your homelessness population. It's black in the nation, 0:50:57.239 --> 0:51:00.200 and I think in l A it's eight A mean, 0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:03.880 California is about eight percent black. But the homeless population, 0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:05.920 I want to say it's like fourty or fiftt so, 0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:09.719 so homelessness United States is black. There was because there 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:14.200 is no place for us in the productive economy. Yeah, 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:16.120 so you know, if you're going to secure us freedom, 0:51:16.160 --> 0:51:18.680 you need to secure us a place in the productive economy. 0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:20.680 This is what credit Scott King was talking about when 0:51:20.760 --> 0:51:23.040 he was on like after Martin Luther King died and 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:24.759 he was talking about a federal job guarantee and byod 0:51:24.760 --> 0:51:26.960 Wrestling was talking about one, and Martin Luther King was 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:30.279 talking about one in his great speech, uh showdown for 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:32.480 non violence instead of in this Black History Month of 0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:35.440 whenever you guys watch, listen to this instead of reading 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:38.080 the I have a dream speech, look for showdown for 0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:40.160 non violence. That's where he lays all of this out 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:42.800 and in the need for a federal job guarantee because 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:46.640 the homelessness is it's black because there's no place for 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:49.280 us to actually work to get enough money to sustain 0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:52.600 you know, a house, so like you get a house, 0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:55.040 but then the property taxes get you because you still 0:51:55.040 --> 0:52:01.520 don't have money. So the spectacular nous of of police 0:52:01.520 --> 0:52:05.279 brutality kind of masks the fact that there is no 0:52:05.400 --> 0:52:08.080 place in the economy for us because I know, I 0:52:08.200 --> 0:52:11.200 know a lot of drug dealers and I and they 0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:15.400 don't like the risk. They would rather be working a 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:17.439 good job, not a job they're not working. They don't 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:18.880 want to work nine dollars an hour and break their 0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:20.719 back for that, But they would take. They would take 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:22.600 a federal job guarantee of twenty two dollars an hour 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:26.840 doing public works rather than sling Kane or whatever. So like, 0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:30.919 I don't, I like a lot of people get into 0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:34.600 that life because there's no other place for us in 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:40.319 the productive account and productive economy where that's not abjectly degrading. Because, 0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:41.680 like I said, these guys are gonna work for nine 0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:43.680 dollars an hour, but if you give if you offer 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:45.960 them a twenty two dollar an hour job that's actually 0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:50.480 like providing material or cultural infrastructure, they would much rather 0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:53.879 do that than eat the risk, right, And so we 0:52:53.880 --> 0:52:56.200 were we were debating whether or not the risk of 0:52:56.280 --> 0:52:58.600 slaying Kane or whatever, like if that is a part 0:52:58.600 --> 0:53:02.720 of the appeal. I was like, it was like, exactly 0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:06.759 agree with you that the prospects of being an employee 0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:10.360 and how terrible that is has pushed people into the streets. 0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:15.360 And that's it. That's the only appeal, Like being a 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:19.080 black employee is so bad that we end up like 0:53:19.160 --> 0:53:22.480 doing these awful things to make ends meet, because it's 0:53:22.480 --> 0:53:25.120 either you work for some man at nine dollars an 0:53:25.120 --> 0:53:27.840 hour who still treat you like garbage and you're still vulnerable, 0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:31.480 and you're still vulnerable because like that white boss comes 0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:33.319 in is in a bad mood and then there you go, 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:37.440 your job's gone, yeah, or or you you end up 0:53:37.480 --> 0:53:38.960 on the street, like doing what you can on the 0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:41.360 street to make money and there's a little bit more flexibility, 0:53:41.400 --> 0:53:43.680 but you're eating a lot of risk. So like that's 0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:47.920 not white life. Yeah, that's not like there's no uncle 0:53:48.000 --> 0:53:50.560 who's gonna get you on a job, like no, like 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:54.320 at a good wage. That's like that's white life. But 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:56.279 the black life, that's just not the case for black life. 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:59.560 So you end up like taking these incredibly risky like 0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:03.719 positions and then you end up in jail or you 0:54:03.760 --> 0:54:06.839 look like someone you look like someone that might be 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:10.960 in a risky position because yeas to every black president 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:13.279 is under that in the private economy, that means that 0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:16.880 you look like the other black people on the street. Right, 0:54:17.000 --> 0:54:20.839 So I think, as I want to say, seven years ago, 0:54:20.880 --> 0:54:23.000 I haven't seen the most recent number. I think ten 0:54:23.040 --> 0:54:27.239 percent of black men between nineteen and thirty nine, those 0:54:27.280 --> 0:54:33.279 are prime working age are in jail. I got this pervision. Yeah, 0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:36.520 that's ten percent of nineteen thirty nine. Ten percent. That's 0:54:36.520 --> 0:54:40.279 a chunk. That's like, yeah, that's a lot of people. 0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.200 That's so much that it screws up the entire economy. 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:48.759 We can't get labor statistics. That's so much of like 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:52.560 the working classmen are in jail. And so the question 0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:53.799 is do you let him out of jail but still 0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:55.480 out of the economy, which means you're on the street 0:54:56.480 --> 0:54:59.400 like homelessness or intensely that's Los Angeles, or do you 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:01.040 just round them up and put him in a cage, 0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:03.160 because at least in the cage are out of sight 0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:06.200 and out of mind. Right, geographical solution to socio economic problem. 0:55:06.440 --> 0:55:08.600 But and you know, if there was a great the 0:55:08.600 --> 0:55:12.799 movie what you call it, Sorry to Bother, that was 0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:15.960 very well done. He was like, we haven't talked about it, 0:55:16.000 --> 0:55:17.880 Yett in this podcast. Well I'm just thinking that, Like 0:55:17.880 --> 0:55:20.239 there was a one scene one of the characters is like, look, 0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:22.920 it's so stressful trying to keep this house and live 0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:27.080 in Oakland that I don't know, jail doesn't look so bad. 0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:29.919 There are three hots and a cot, but I don't 0:55:30.000 --> 0:55:34.200 like insta bill and like it's very stressful. I like Oakland, California, 0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:35.840 if I grew up in I mean I went to 0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:37.560 college in Berkeley, so like I always a weird and 0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:39.600 I would live around there. But now that I'm in 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:42.440 Athan Georgia, you know, I moved out and I can't 0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:46.359 really move back. It's not for me, so because like 0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.479 I can't afford everything costs and I don't have money, 0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:52.880 so like that's not for me. But the idea that 0:55:52.960 --> 0:55:56.279 it's less stressful in jail, why do not go to 0:55:56.600 --> 0:56:00.640 Yeah that that yeah, exactly, not an extraneous negro outside 0:56:00.640 --> 0:56:05.840 of jail. So it's not like it's not like what 0:56:05.920 --> 0:56:07.640 I'm You're like, well, if you go to jail, you 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:08.920 can't take care of your family. It's not like I 0:56:08.920 --> 0:56:13.279 can take care of my family anyway. Yeah, this is 0:56:13.280 --> 0:56:15.680 what I'm thinking. So like that that I thought that 0:56:15.719 --> 0:56:18.480 was dramatized pretty well and so bother you and it's 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:21.600 just like it's really a problem. And the way do 0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:24.920 we secure people their dignity and secure them a value 0:56:24.920 --> 0:56:28.359 place in life is to create this infrastructure, a job 0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:30.759 guarantee that says, like, you know what you get out 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:32.480 of jail. We got to twenty two dollars an hour 0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:35.719 show up and strengthened labor unions and strength of labor 0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:38.200 unions and like these jobs will be unionized, so like yeah, 0:56:38.239 --> 0:56:41.520 you just get to negotiate your working conditions or else 0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:44.920 some some mid level upper manager will look at a 0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:48.160 spreadsheep or higher consultant from McKenzie or whatever to look 0:56:48.200 --> 0:56:49.200 at the spread team and say like, well, you know, 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:50.440 we can save a little bit of money if we 0:56:50.520 --> 0:56:53.640 just have like medical vehicles outside and didn't get rid 0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:55.239 of the air condition because we're losing a lot of 0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:58.400 money and keeping the warehouse cool. Like like, no, you 0:56:58.400 --> 0:56:59.960 want to be able to negotiate that. You don't want 0:57:00.000 --> 0:57:03.359 that decision to come down top down. But so we 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:05.839 want black employment in the United States to actually be 0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:09.200 like a dignifying experience because we want to embrace the 0:57:09.280 --> 0:57:13.839 fact of our advanced industrial economy. So we're gonna have employees. 0:57:14.200 --> 0:57:17.960 Let's pay employees, and the interesting ways you could do this, right, 0:57:18.000 --> 0:57:21.800 So we subsidize farmers um with farm subsidies. That's if 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.160 anybody knows anything about American oak culture, the only reason 0:57:24.200 --> 0:57:26.560 we got food is because of farm subsidies. It's right. 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:28.440 It gets rid of a lot of inefficiencies and just 0:57:28.480 --> 0:57:31.160 we just wouldn't have food um without farm subsidies. So 0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:33.560 we subsidize farmers to either grow or not grow food. 0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:39.480 Maybe we should. We could also subsidize farm workers, right, 0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:44.800 So farm workers get paid twenty dollars an hour, but um, 0:57:45.000 --> 0:57:49.240 the employer, the farmer only pays like you know seven. Right, 0:57:49.560 --> 0:57:53.800 So it's it's a direct subsidy too, is proposing right now? 0:57:54.640 --> 0:57:59.480 I don't not really, But we were so comfortable subsidizing owners. 0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:02.880 Were it's not comfortable with subsidizing workers. Subsidizing workers, all right, 0:58:02.960 --> 0:58:05.080 So you need these many workers to fulfill this farm. 0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:06.840 We want your food. That's great, this is a public 0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:10.160 good that like we're gonna allow you to have as 0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:12.560 a farm. That's good. It's still your farm. But I'm 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:14.919 gonna need your workers to be paid you know, twenty 0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:16.400 dollars an hour. Well, you don't want to pay twenty 0:58:16.400 --> 0:58:17.880 dolls an hour because they drive you out of business, 0:58:18.120 --> 0:58:20.880 that's fine, you pay seven. We'll get the other third team, 0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:24.400 and we'll tax Bloomberg for it. Right, And people say, 0:58:24.440 --> 0:58:26.400 well that might lead to inflation. First of all, why 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:28.920 is every time nobody ever talks about inflation when you're 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:34.160 talking about like me, like wealthy people getting right? Uh? Second, 0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:37.680 all Trump nobody about also talks about the deficit when 0:58:37.680 --> 0:58:41.600 Trump cuts taxes for their wealthy. Right, so Trump is 0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:46.240 ballooning deficits. Yet ballooning deficits, we still don't hit inflation 0:58:46.240 --> 0:58:49.800 targets because like we haven't hit max productivity and you 0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:52.400 know as well as I do, we are under producing 0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:55.640 in the American South. You get the hookworms out and 0:58:55.680 --> 0:58:59.520 the water out and get everybody internet to and like 0:58:59.560 --> 0:59:01.680 I'm I'm in Athens right now, and people like, well 0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:04.880 doesn't everybody have internet? Now you go about six miles 0:59:04.880 --> 0:59:09.120 in any direction, I've minute driving like you're back on 0:59:09.160 --> 0:59:16.320 dial up and you've got like modem shah. So so 0:59:16.400 --> 0:59:19.320 we are like you get those people clean water, you 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:23.880 get them a cultural infrastructure, some newspapers and internet in 0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:26.320 the internet, and you know, and you know what they have, 0:59:26.640 --> 0:59:30.720 the productivity goes up, right, So right now we can 0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:34.000 like we've been ballooning the deficit, but since we haven't 0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:40.400 maxed out productivity, the costs haven't gone up because of UM, 0:59:41.000 --> 0:59:45.120 supplier diversity and supplier UM. Yeah, supplier diversity is keeping 0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:48.320 brought the prices down, right, So we don't have to 0:59:48.360 --> 0:59:51.040 worry about inflation until we have to worry about inflation, 0:59:51.120 --> 0:59:53.960 and there's a lot of There are a ton of indicators, 0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:58.120 and it's not generalized. Inflation is good specific because right now, 0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:00.520 like the press of most things is either staying stead 1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:02.920 you are going light me down, like like microphones, it's 1:00:02.920 --> 1:00:06.959 actually going down, yeah because I'm going yeah yeah, yeah. 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:11.840 But the price of healthcare, college tuition, those are going up. 1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:14.640 But those are that's that inflation is a matter of 1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:19.600 bad politics. That's not like that. Yeah, that's that's not 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:22.160 more money in people's pocket. That's just bad politics. We 1:00:22.200 --> 1:00:25.280 have bad health care policy. So like healthcare costs of 1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:28.240 going up because like their private industry has taken our 1:00:28.280 --> 1:00:32.080 government so um. So the idea that if you pay 1:00:32.080 --> 1:00:36.760 workers sometimes like if you pay workers, prices of things 1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:40.680 will go up, like assumes that all of the people 1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:45.800 are as productive as they couldn't be, or they wouldn't 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:48.360 be making new things that will compete with the old 1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:51.000 things that will bring the whole price down for like 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:55.280 all goods, which is which has attested to happen, it happens. 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:58.000 And and and if you agree with me listening at home, 1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:02.200 that America's under producing in the South is underproducing, and 1:01:02.240 --> 1:01:05.240 that if you give people clean water and clean air 1:01:06.040 --> 1:01:09.960 and um, you know internet, they will actually be more 1:01:10.000 --> 1:01:14.400 productive than they are right now with their hookworm infest itself. 1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:19.720 Then then like for example, if you actually forgive student 1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:22.080 and just wipe it, wipe it clean, wipe it clean, 1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:26.959 clean the economy, it will people be more productive. People 1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:28.920 will be more Productivey'll be able to start businesses, our 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:31.240 chances taking like they'll be able to actually produce things 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:34.000 as opposed to like, well, I was gonna buy this 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:36.520 this microphone and start a podcast, but I gotta pay 1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:41.240 Sally May like, that's a decision. I was gonna get 1:01:41.240 --> 1:01:44.919 married and then like married, so business. I was gonna 1:01:44.920 --> 1:01:46.880 start a contracting business, but like you know that thousand 1:01:46.920 --> 1:01:49.560 dollars a month to Sally May like, so you wipe 1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:51.880 that away and like that will like take the chain 1:01:52.360 --> 1:01:55.760 off of an entire generation who's under producing right now 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:58.560 because like they have to all their money goes over 1:01:58.920 --> 1:02:01.880 to like the a half million dollars debt or quarter. 1:02:02.880 --> 1:02:09.600 You know what's your name, Uh, Stacy Abams. That's Stacy Abram. 1:02:09.680 --> 1:02:11.120 I bet her a few times one on one we 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:14.840 had he like a t She is smart. She's smarter 1:02:14.920 --> 1:02:17.680 though she's as smartest of us. She's the best of us. 1:02:17.720 --> 1:02:21.680 Like Stacy Abams is smart two d K and it's 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:23.040 not like, well, you know, if she just tried harder 1:02:23.040 --> 1:02:28.080 in school, she went yeah, yeah, yeah, get out of here. 1:02:29.240 --> 1:02:32.800 Well she just tried harder, you know, she would like 1:02:32.840 --> 1:02:34.760 she spent all the money helping out her parents and 1:02:34.840 --> 1:02:39.560 like things the un expensive. So like Stacie Abams, the 1:02:39.600 --> 1:02:42.640 best of us, better than I am is two hundred 1:02:42.720 --> 1:02:45.640 k and debt because like black life kind of sucked 1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:49.360 it in and like and then being if you're related 1:02:49.400 --> 1:02:52.280 to black people, it's expensive. It's not as expensive being black. 1:02:52.280 --> 1:02:55.360 It's expensive being related to black people because like you know, 1:02:55.400 --> 1:02:57.520 maybe you gotta cover cover your friends dead, or maybe 1:02:57.560 --> 1:03:01.160 you got it, like something something happened bailing people out 1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:03.640 of jail. Someone got a heart palpitation, so they went 1:03:03.680 --> 1:03:05.919 to jail. But then they got an ambulance and oh 1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:09.080 they got that ambulance. So now, how much is an 1:03:09.080 --> 1:03:12.840 ambulance bill? At least I want to say it's higher 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:18.760 than that. So you got people going to uber, Yeah, 1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:24.600 I don't know it's gonna be now now yeah, because 1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:27.080 like that's no way to live. That's the way to live. 1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:31.560 So so the idea that, um, if you take away 1:03:31.640 --> 1:03:34.960 that kind of stress, people won't be more productive is 1:03:35.040 --> 1:03:36.920 ridiculous because it's it's not proven out and coming to 1:03:37.040 --> 1:03:40.680 economics and and so yeah, we pay people, they'll be 1:03:40.720 --> 1:03:44.120 more productive. And anytime there's an inflationary good, we can 1:03:44.160 --> 1:03:45.680 have a policy that takes care of that, just like 1:03:45.720 --> 1:03:48.560 we did with with food. Right, So like we shouldn't 1:03:48.600 --> 1:03:51.960 have to, we shouldn't. This is like the inflation argument, 1:03:52.000 --> 1:03:53.920 a bad argument. We need to pay black people for 1:03:53.920 --> 1:03:56.040 the work they do, because it's not as everyone can't 1:03:56.040 --> 1:03:57.960 be a boss. Because sometimes I want someone else doing 1:03:57.960 --> 1:04:01.479 my childcare, someone else's. I have three kids. I can't 1:04:01.480 --> 1:04:04.520 both have three kids watching them while doing this podcast. 1:04:04.800 --> 1:04:07.800 I need someone else doing that I want and I 1:04:07.880 --> 1:04:11.000 want else And if they're paid very well, that makes 1:04:11.040 --> 1:04:14.040 me happy. Yeah, because they've taken better care of my kids. Yeah. 1:04:14.200 --> 1:04:16.840 But so I wanted to ask you two quick questions. 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:19.640 We're getting over time. So do you do you need 1:04:19.680 --> 1:04:22.600 to go? No? No, no, go? Okay. So, um, we 1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:25.320 talked a little about the Wagner Act and subsequent tippings 1:04:25.360 --> 1:04:27.360 away at it. We talked about black sputation workers for 1:04:27.640 --> 1:04:30.280 Memphis and do you guys talk about how that started 1:04:30.280 --> 1:04:32.160 with the with the guy who got killed in the 1:04:32.160 --> 1:04:37.959 trash compattor got die What a fucking terrible way to die. 1:04:38.120 --> 1:04:41.400 I found out about that two years I was shocked. Shocked. 1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:43.560 That's how that whole thing got started. They were trying 1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:46.360 to get out of the rain, yeah, in a trash 1:04:46.400 --> 1:04:48.760 compactor that wasn't working right, and as a result of 1:04:48.760 --> 1:04:50.440 the strikes, didn't have to work in the rain anymore. 1:04:51.440 --> 1:04:53.320 So I was wondering, I was any other tidbits from 1:04:53.320 --> 1:04:56.400 black labor history that people ought to know. There's a 1:04:56.400 --> 1:04:59.200 great movie called ten Thousand Black Men Named George. Just 1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:02.040 find it. I got, I got my copy, and I 1:05:02.080 --> 1:05:04.760 like I had to get like a DVD turned out 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:07.959 the Black Men Named George. It's about a Philip Randolph 1:05:08.160 --> 1:05:14.000 and uh him starting the Pullman workers union, right, and 1:05:14.520 --> 1:05:17.160 just what it actually captured very well. It's like normal 1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:20.600 ray for black people, right, So it's it's it's it 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:25.480 captures very well about the stresses of actually like organizing 1:05:25.520 --> 1:05:28.200 for worker justice and what that looks like because like 1:05:28.240 --> 1:05:30.320 it's not like we don't want pullman port Pullman where 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:32.040 the people who got your uggage and all of that stuff. 1:05:32.080 --> 1:05:33.880 And when you're traveling sometimes you want people to get 1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:36.520 your luggage. That's that's great, right, But we also want 1:05:36.560 --> 1:05:39.160 those people to get paid. Right, So it was just 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.960 a ten thousand black men named George. It's a great 1:05:42.000 --> 1:05:45.440 movie and I think it really just dramatizes what it 1:05:45.880 --> 1:05:50.880 is like to go from like not having dignity do 1:05:50.920 --> 1:05:55.200 you work on your workplace to having dignity on your workplace. Yeah, 1:05:55.440 --> 1:05:58.080 and they'll be helpful for people watching who are for listen, 1:05:58.120 --> 1:06:01.480 who are listening who have no idea how this works. Right, Okay, 1:06:01.520 --> 1:06:03.840 I'm pissed about everything you've said, and I feel you. 1:06:03.880 --> 1:06:07.600 But now what do I do? Well, what does that 1:06:07.640 --> 1:06:09.600 even mean? Well, the funny thing is like shell Samberg 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:11.560 came out with that book a few years ago, lean In, Right, 1:06:12.440 --> 1:06:17.280 I got so many black people fired. The tried to 1:06:17.320 --> 1:06:23.000 lean in by themselves and then well it wasn't for me. 1:06:23.440 --> 1:06:25.919 You try to negotiate you with your boss one on one, 1:06:26.160 --> 1:06:27.920 it turns out like, well, you're not good fit for 1:06:27.920 --> 1:06:31.720 the company anymore. So like you can't lean in one 1:06:31.760 --> 1:06:34.160 on one. You need to lean in as a group. 1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:36.840 You need to lean in as a group because that's 1:06:36.880 --> 1:06:39.000 why you bounce a power, and that's why you can negotiate, 1:06:39.200 --> 1:06:42.560 because the rule of thumb is unless you could shut 1:06:42.640 --> 1:06:46.520 it down, you don't have negotiating power. So you need 1:06:46.600 --> 1:06:51.000 just enough power to be able to stop the machine. 1:06:51.320 --> 1:06:54.040 You don't need more than that, but you need that. 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:58.080 So if you get enough people to just be able 1:06:58.120 --> 1:07:02.560 to stop the services, then you have um bargaining power 1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:05.000 to go get it, to go get it. Get it, folks, 1:07:05.080 --> 1:07:08.360 you'll get it. It's been great having you. Where do 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:10.440 we find your work? All right? So I have a 1:07:10.520 --> 1:07:13.240 podcast I run doing local politics out of Athens. It's 1:07:13.320 --> 1:07:15.480 so just go on YouTube and you put in Funky 1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:18.640 Academic or the Black Athenians. I'll be there. Or you 1:07:18.640 --> 1:07:20.640 can just go to funky academic dot com. Well do 1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:23.480 you got cash at PayPal? How do they send you money? 1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:26.240 Funky academic dot com. You'll find a nice little panel 1:07:26.360 --> 1:07:29.240 on the left side and you could scroll down and 1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:33.200 give me five, fifteen, or fifty dollars a month would 1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:35.280 be great, Or give me a one time huge donation. 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:37.480 Or you can leave me. Just go ahead and email 1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:40.400 me and leave me in your will. Yeah, yeah, I 1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:42.440 could get a piece of that inheritance because you know what, 1:07:42.560 --> 1:07:44.760 given money to me to spread the word would be 1:07:44.760 --> 1:07:49.320 good for America. And maybe your kids have enough, so 1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:51.960 so and like maybe you want your better kids friends, 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:53.960 so you give you just leave me, just leave me 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:56.680 your inheritance, that would be nice too. Appreciate you being 1:07:56.720 --> 1:08:10.680 hire man. Thanks thanks so As a Lingua Franco was 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:13.600 saying earlier, when we were doing like the initial research 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:17.240 to try to find songs that had labor as the 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:19.800 topic or were about the topic of working at nine 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:23.479 to five or that working man's grind, we're having a 1:08:23.479 --> 1:08:26.160 hard time finding it because, Um, for the most part, 1:08:26.200 --> 1:08:29.840 when we searched for it, most of the references to 1:08:29.920 --> 1:08:34.600 working we're either broad or vague concepts of hustle or 1:08:34.640 --> 1:08:37.360 working hard, or I'll put in the work in general 1:08:37.520 --> 1:08:39.879 like ethic. Yeah, it is general, like almost like gatorade 1:08:39.880 --> 1:08:44.120 commercial type ship. You know what I'm saying. Um, whenever 1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:48.120 jobs were reference, it was never in any sort of 1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:54.760 positive sense. So I think that's why, well, yeah, like 1:08:54.800 --> 1:08:56.840 I think that's why it's hard. It was hard for 1:08:56.920 --> 1:09:00.679 us to find like examples of rap songs that were 1:09:00.840 --> 1:09:05.120 for or about working men and women, just because that's 1:09:05.160 --> 1:09:07.559 like a topic that like people literally don't give a 1:09:07.560 --> 1:09:10.120 funk about in hip hop, like people people get it 1:09:10.120 --> 1:09:12.960 into hip hop to not have a regular shop, you know, 1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:16.679 Like people people do rap so that their mother doesn't 1:09:16.680 --> 1:09:18.479 have to work anymore, you know what I mean, so 1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:21.080 that their family and their friends are straight. Yeah, quote 1:09:21.160 --> 1:09:24.840 unquote straight and nobody has to you know. So with that, 1:09:24.960 --> 1:09:28.840 it makes it it makes it kind of expected that 1:09:28.880 --> 1:09:32.000 you wouldn't find a lot of m c s dedicating 1:09:33.000 --> 1:09:37.800 a song topic to their job, right, right, at least 1:09:37.800 --> 1:09:42.280 not in the mainstream sense, um right, because it's aspirational. 1:09:42.360 --> 1:09:44.519 Even if somebody is working at nine to five and 1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:47.040 like on quote unquote on the side of their like 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:50.360 wrap aspirations. They're not gonna wrap about that. They want 1:09:50.360 --> 1:09:52.599 to wrap about like something that is inspiring to them, 1:09:52.680 --> 1:09:55.040 something that is like where they want to go, who 1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:57.519 they want to be, fashioning themselves as a different kind 1:09:57.520 --> 1:09:59.160 of person in their music, so they don't have to 1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:01.400 deal with they're not too ship And let's be real, 1:10:01.479 --> 1:10:04.760 I mean, like getting a nine to five isn't attractive, 1:10:05.400 --> 1:10:08.559 you know, based on these the weakening of like labor 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:10.920 unions and stuff like that that we talked about earlier. 1:10:11.120 --> 1:10:13.640 If you have to work fourteen hour days and a 1:10:14.120 --> 1:10:16.880 boiling hot kitchen getting screamed at by your sous chef 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:19.960 about you know, you gotta flip the burgers quicker or 1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:22.040 whatever if you have to be on the back of 1:10:22.040 --> 1:10:25.599 that sanitation truck in the rain with getting garbage juice 1:10:25.600 --> 1:10:28.160 spilled on you, and like you're only making you know, 1:10:28.880 --> 1:10:34.000 an hour, Like why why, Yeah, it's not anybody's like dream, 1:10:34.400 --> 1:10:37.320 it's not anybody's dream. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean the 1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:43.240 line that epitomizes how I think the j O. B 1:10:43.560 --> 1:10:46.280 Has been like dealt with in hip hop. It's from 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:49.400 a Eminem song eight Mile Road, was on the eight 1:10:49.439 --> 1:10:59.040 Mile soundtrack, but regular, and it's like it's it's in 1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:00.920 the middle of the song, you know what I mean. 1:11:00.920 --> 1:11:02.960 There's a bunch of stuff that he says before, but 1:11:03.040 --> 1:11:06.160 it's like the whole song is about you know, it's 1:11:06.200 --> 1:11:09.160 it's eight miles on the eight Miles soundtracks. I'm going 1:11:09.200 --> 1:11:12.559 to battles, grinding them right every day and all that ship. 1:11:12.840 --> 1:11:15.880 So when he gets to that line, it's kind of like, damn, yeah, 1:11:16.280 --> 1:11:23.000 it would suck if you just it would all that hustle. Yeah, 1:11:23.240 --> 1:11:25.880 And it's early as early as Grandmaster Flash and the 1:11:25.920 --> 1:11:29.640 Furious Five on the message they're talking about. Uh, my 1:11:29.680 --> 1:11:31.439 son said, Daddy, I don't want to go to school 1:11:31.439 --> 1:11:33.479 because the teachers are jerky, must think I'm a fool, 1:11:33.520 --> 1:11:35.320 and all the kids smoke reeper, And I think it 1:11:35.320 --> 1:11:37.439 would be cheaper if I just got a job learned 1:11:37.439 --> 1:11:40.320 to be a street streeper. So like already they're talking 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:45.799 about like school, like you know, I just it's probably 1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:48.200 more lucrative if I just get a job. It's one 1:11:48.240 --> 1:11:51.400 of the few I guess positive reversences to getting a 1:11:51.520 --> 1:11:55.519 job that it's out there. Well, I mean it's positive, 1:11:58.240 --> 1:12:03.560 it's dark, it's um, it's realistic, it's realistic, it's realistic. 1:12:03.800 --> 1:12:06.200 But I mean, do you you know that I kind 1:12:06.200 --> 1:12:12.719 of feel that somehow the Fox school aspect and Funk 1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:17.720 a regular job or connected, Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's like 1:12:17.720 --> 1:12:21.880 an anti establishment push on both sides. Both of these institutions. 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:26.679 Fun a corporation, UM government job and fuck the public 1:12:26.680 --> 1:12:29.439 school system. All of these ship is run by white people. 1:12:29.520 --> 1:12:31.400 So I don't want to do it. Word. So what 1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:35.559 we got next? Oh? Great, Kanye? Yeah, I want to 1:12:35.560 --> 1:12:38.920 talk about spaceships by Kanye, which I feel like has 1:12:38.960 --> 1:12:41.760 the most one of the most interesting anti labor, not 1:12:41.800 --> 1:12:47.040 anti one of the most interesting commentaries on labor in 1:12:47.920 --> 1:12:50.800 the In in hip Hop, he talks about work in 1:12:50.800 --> 1:12:53.000 this grave ship and I made ship. Wish I could 1:12:53.200 --> 1:12:55.679 buy me a spaceship and fly. And then he says, 1:12:55.720 --> 1:12:58.040 you know, if my manager insults me again, I will 1:12:58.080 --> 1:13:02.639 be assulting him after the manager and I'm going to shorten. 1:13:03.720 --> 1:13:05.479 Let's go back back to the gap. Look at my check. 1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:08.240 Wasn't those scratch So if I stole it wasn't my fault. Yeah, 1:13:08.320 --> 1:13:10.880 Stoll never got caught. Take me to the back and 1:13:10.920 --> 1:13:13.320 pat me asking me about some khakis. But let some 1:13:13.360 --> 1:13:15.599 black people walk in. I bet you they'll show off. 1:13:15.640 --> 1:13:19.720 They're talking black. Oh now they love car. Put them 1:13:19.720 --> 1:13:21.920 all in the front of the stone. So I'm on 1:13:22.040 --> 1:13:24.080 break next to the no smoking sign with a blunting 1:13:24.080 --> 1:13:26.920 them all. So we're talking about literally working at the gap, 1:13:27.479 --> 1:13:29.960 working at the gap and how much that sucks, and 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:33.680 the manager getting on you and then tokenization dragging you 1:13:33.760 --> 1:13:35.880 out of black people come in the store, So how 1:13:35.920 --> 1:13:38.120 do how do you feel? Like, how do you feel 1:13:38.120 --> 1:13:42.280 about just that string? They're like it sounds like in 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:46.439 your voice that that hits that hits that hits. I mean, 1:13:46.479 --> 1:13:49.640 I think it's critical for like the very beginnings of 1:13:49.680 --> 1:13:53.439 developing class consciousness. I'm like, yo, like we shouldn't have 1:13:53.479 --> 1:13:55.240 to live like this. We shouldn't have to work under 1:13:55.280 --> 1:13:57.639 these conditions. We don't shouldn't have to like put up 1:13:57.640 --> 1:13:59.880 with this ship from our managers. I should be able 1:13:59.880 --> 1:14:03.439 to smoke weed in them all, like I steal because 1:14:03.439 --> 1:14:06.200 they're not paying me enough. Like this is this is 1:14:06.240 --> 1:14:08.760 the reality. This is the reality we live under right now. 1:14:09.240 --> 1:14:13.560 And so um, it doesn't get into like a critique 1:14:13.560 --> 1:14:19.400 of like labor, you know, to a like technical extent, 1:14:19.600 --> 1:14:22.240 but like it's got the it's got the bait, the blaze, 1:14:22.320 --> 1:14:25.120 the bones, you know, just like oh yeah, don't you 1:14:25.439 --> 1:14:28.800 doesn't resonate with you that like this nine to five suck, 1:14:28.880 --> 1:14:31.760 these managers sucked, these hours, suck this paycheck. I think 1:14:31.760 --> 1:14:35.479 this is kind of almost you know, like indicative of 1:14:35.560 --> 1:14:40.679 like a lot of the examples that we found where 1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:45.519 it's not necessarily that anyone is dedicating the entire song 1:14:45.680 --> 1:14:49.080 or even the entire verse, but it's just like little 1:14:49.120 --> 1:14:53.720 commentaries about jobs and labor and just the condition, you know, 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:55.800 I mean of working and what that's like that you 1:14:55.880 --> 1:14:59.960 hear throughout rap music and yeah, yeah. The next example 1:15:00.000 --> 1:15:02.120 what I want to talk about was mad City by Kendrick, 1:15:02.560 --> 1:15:04.960 which maybe like probably wouldn't jump out to you as 1:15:05.040 --> 1:15:07.599 like a labor song, but it says my pop said 1:15:07.600 --> 1:15:11.040 it needed a job, but did you already going for 1:15:11.600 --> 1:15:14.000 He ended up leaving back. I got fired because that 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:17.960 was just fired. My friends stay Robbery the third Saturday 1:15:17.960 --> 1:15:21.200 at Clacton. So it's like, do I hold this job 1:15:21.240 --> 1:15:23.280 down or do I engage in a lista ship that 1:15:23.400 --> 1:15:26.519 like we'll get you pay quicker and harder and also 1:15:26.600 --> 1:15:30.240 to your point, like has that illicit like that dangerous 1:15:30.840 --> 1:15:35.360 bad boy element to it that is appealing arguably to 1:15:35.520 --> 1:15:38.800 people within hip hop. Yeah, I mean because I've you know, 1:15:39.120 --> 1:15:42.639 everybody knows somebody, you know what I'm saying. But it's 1:15:42.640 --> 1:15:45.519 like I've got the family and friends you know what 1:15:45.520 --> 1:15:47.960 I'm saying, who are doing show who are like yo, 1:15:48.120 --> 1:15:52.080 there's certain aspects of this ship where it's like you 1:15:52.160 --> 1:15:55.160 might as well just get when you weigh out, like 1:15:55.439 --> 1:16:00.479 the risk, like you're you're working like hard, harder than 1:16:00.520 --> 1:16:03.200 you would Yeah, you're working in fast food and if 1:16:03.200 --> 1:16:04.840 you get caught you going to jail for like twenty 1:16:04.880 --> 1:16:08.760 seven of life, So it's like, what am I doing? Right? Um? Uh? 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:12.040 The next one, this one kind of shifts in a 1:16:12.080 --> 1:16:15.760 bit because this one actually is about working in the 1:16:15.800 --> 1:16:18.840 corporate environment. But that's because it was made for the 1:16:18.840 --> 1:16:21.559 soundtrack of a movie. We're talking about the Cannabis and 1:16:21.640 --> 1:16:25.240 Bismarckie song Shove This j O B. It was on 1:16:25.320 --> 1:16:38.240 the soundtrack to a very funny movie, Office Space. It's 1:16:38.360 --> 1:16:41.080 hard to almost pick out a single line from this one, 1:16:41.120 --> 1:16:43.360 just because that's the whole song is about that. It's 1:16:43.400 --> 1:16:46.360 just about pretty much the plot of Office Space, the 1:16:46.400 --> 1:16:49.519 grind of going the job every day, the repetition being 1:16:49.560 --> 1:16:53.360 in a cubicle, um, not being treated right, not even 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:56.160 being considered as like a person or a commodity. You're 1:16:56.200 --> 1:16:58.160 just like they're you know what I'm saying, all that 1:16:58.160 --> 1:17:00.960 sort of stuff. My favorite session is it is um 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:04.519 Cannabis says, you wonder why your workload is so enormous 1:17:04.600 --> 1:17:06.880 because the boss just laid off the quarters of the 1:17:06.920 --> 1:17:10.720 whole office. You get depressed and get also stressed by 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:14.559 what the corporate environment causes. Pretty much the whole song 1:17:14.680 --> 1:17:16.679 is about that. It's so it's a lot more comedic. 1:17:16.800 --> 1:17:20.360 It's not really somber critique of ship, but even that 1:17:20.439 --> 1:17:22.640 makes it effective in the point that it's trying to 1:17:22.640 --> 1:17:25.400 make that it brings levity into it, and that it's funny, 1:17:25.520 --> 1:17:28.679 and the beats really quirky, and you got bis Markey 1:17:28.720 --> 1:17:32.680 on the hook. Take this job, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I 1:17:32.720 --> 1:17:35.040 like these lines later on the song. You have some occupations. 1:17:35.120 --> 1:17:37.320 It's like slave gigs. The boss is favored and get 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:39.880 placed in some spacious all the most hated get placed 1:17:39.880 --> 1:17:42.880 in some small s people, well, the most hated get 1:17:42.880 --> 1:17:45.479 placed in some small cubical spaces or get thrown down 1:17:45.479 --> 1:17:50.040 in the base. When get to just Stapler confiscating, that's 1:17:50.040 --> 1:17:54.280 like directly, I love it. No, that's good, that's good ship. 1:17:54.560 --> 1:17:56.479 It's fun. It's hard to find songs that are about 1:17:56.560 --> 1:18:00.240 like picketing, about striking, about coming together. It's where girls, 1:18:00.280 --> 1:18:04.240 because let's be honest, most rappers, like most every day 1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:08.160 or nary rappers on the level of like Mac and 1:18:08.240 --> 1:18:11.960 I have other jobs. They have other jobs, and there's 1:18:12.080 --> 1:18:14.600 very few. I mean, like you might occasionally find a 1:18:14.640 --> 1:18:16.880 song like Spaceships, or find a song like Shove This 1:18:17.000 --> 1:18:20.320 j Ob, or find snippets like from Kendricks Mad City 1:18:20.360 --> 1:18:22.679 where people are like critiquing, like, man, that's what sucks. 1:18:23.120 --> 1:18:26.320 But really do you hear someone actually say like, well, 1:18:26.400 --> 1:18:30.439 let's do something about it. And so, um, well, I'm 1:18:30.680 --> 1:18:35.479 of the Jacobin article that I was going to reference. 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:39.559 Um it was just talking about how there's a there's 1:18:39.600 --> 1:18:44.599 like a long tradition of strike strikes from going from 1:18:44.640 --> 1:18:46.759 the eight hundreds up till now, you know what I'm saying, 1:18:46.840 --> 1:18:52.479 And it's just it's just like none of them are 1:18:52.520 --> 1:18:57.439 really rap songs. Say, granted, absolutely been around since like, 1:18:58.880 --> 1:19:01.960 but that's a seventy nine. It's not exactly like we've 1:19:02.000 --> 1:19:05.000 been living in a utopia since nineteen seventy nine. But again, 1:19:05.040 --> 1:19:07.920 that's not necessarily a critique on hip hop. That's just 1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:11.680 it's it's where the music is coming from. You know 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:15.440 what I'm saying. The music is just not coming from 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:18.240 a point of view that is like, yo, I'm trying 1:19:18.280 --> 1:19:22.639 to work work within an establishment system. And it's also 1:19:22.760 --> 1:19:25.240 I think the case that like white labor unions have 1:19:25.320 --> 1:19:28.400 a much longer history than black ones. To just give 1:19:28.479 --> 1:19:30.800 him the way the Wagner Act work, and so you 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:39.080 have within white culture more like artistic offerings that rose 1:19:39.160 --> 1:19:42.040 out of the labor movement, whereas our you know what 1:19:42.200 --> 1:19:45.400 was it nine sixty eight where we had the black 1:19:45.560 --> 1:19:50.439 sanitation workers striking like we we gotta catch up, We 1:19:50.520 --> 1:19:54.759 gotta catch up still. And I think also the way 1:19:54.880 --> 1:19:59.360 is that economic austerity during the Reagan era affected black communities. 1:19:59.640 --> 1:20:03.240 It put us behind in terms of engaging in labor 1:20:03.880 --> 1:20:08.040 and and either way that the ship. What did I 1:20:08.040 --> 1:20:10.760 just do? I just hurt my ear m. Yeah, I 1:20:10.800 --> 1:20:13.080 don't know what I just did. Sorry, I don't know. Yeah, 1:20:13.200 --> 1:20:16.599 just like here for a second, um, the way that 1:20:17.600 --> 1:20:20.640 labor rights have been chipped away at since then, just 1:20:20.720 --> 1:20:24.960 the combination those factors has put us behind as a 1:20:25.000 --> 1:20:28.160 culture in terms of engaging labor stuff in the music. 1:20:28.400 --> 1:20:30.280 So I think that's another reason why we don't have 1:20:30.280 --> 1:20:31.880 a lot of strike songs. But do you think that 1:20:31.920 --> 1:20:35.800 in two thousand twenty that like a rapper could could 1:20:35.880 --> 1:20:39.320 emerge who is like a like a Bob Dylan of 1:20:39.439 --> 1:20:41.519 rat you know what I mean, just like some sort 1:20:41.520 --> 1:20:45.519 of like champion of the working man, but like become 1:20:45.600 --> 1:20:49.200 like the biggest thing in the world, the biggest thing 1:20:49.240 --> 1:20:54.560 in the world. NA have a mainstream have a mainstream platform. Yeah. 1:20:54.680 --> 1:20:56.120 I mean, we're gonna end up talking about him a 1:20:56.120 --> 1:20:58.479 lot in this podcast, but I feel like Killer Mike 1:20:58.600 --> 1:21:03.160 is like a working class hero that yeah, yeah, and 1:21:03.200 --> 1:21:05.639 that champions working class causes and has a pretty big 1:21:05.680 --> 1:21:08.240 mainstream platform. That's a good example. Yeah, that's a really 1:21:08.280 --> 1:21:10.040 good example. And took him a long time to get there. 1:21:10.080 --> 1:21:13.639 So maybe we have some some current talents bubbling under that, 1:21:13.800 --> 1:21:15.679 you know, in the next decade or so, or could 1:21:15.680 --> 1:21:18.080 it blow up and like bring those causes to the fore, 1:21:18.720 --> 1:21:21.640 especially as we have a political revolution in this country. 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:25.080 But there are some strike songs. One notably a GMAC 1:21:25.360 --> 1:21:29.280 Detroit rapper has the song on Strike where he stands 1:21:29.280 --> 1:21:33.160 in solidarity solidarity with union auto workers striking against general 1:21:33.200 --> 1:21:35.679 mortors who took grievance with the fact that they planted 1:21:35.680 --> 1:21:38.160 and have air conditioning, that they were there so called 1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:41.360 permit temp workers who didn't qualify for full wages or 1:21:41.479 --> 1:21:43.880 benefits and didn't have a clear path to being hired 1:21:43.920 --> 1:21:46.479 full time. And in the video it's set on a 1:21:46.479 --> 1:21:49.240 picket line with a rapper joint striking autoworkers by hoisting 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:51.120 the picket signs and mugging with them. On the camera. 1:21:51.240 --> 1:21:53.080 Let's listen to a little bit of that. We go, 1:21:53.920 --> 1:21:56.599 so he's better listen. We ain't about to keep working 1:21:56.640 --> 1:22:01.280 under the terms working like, so get I gotta like 1:22:01.439 --> 1:22:06.360 it more now the second again, Yeah, actually, because before 1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:10.040 my my critique of it was I was I was saying, 1:22:10.240 --> 1:22:12.439 I like the verses, but I don't like the hook 1:22:12.520 --> 1:22:15.160 or the beat, and I think that it's so simple 1:22:15.240 --> 1:22:18.960 we're going on strike, and this was just like, this 1:22:19.160 --> 1:22:20.880 wasn't anything that I was even going to mention, you 1:22:20.920 --> 1:22:22.479 know what I mean, Like in all honesty, I was 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:24.959 just like, oh, that's what I thought, But the sentiment 1:22:25.080 --> 1:22:27.840 of it is important. So it's like I've kind of 1:22:27.880 --> 1:22:30.360 let that slide. But just like critiquing it from like 1:22:30.400 --> 1:22:32.960 my rapper nerd side, I've got like critiques in the song, 1:22:33.040 --> 1:22:36.519 and I feel that that affects the effectiveness of the 1:22:36.600 --> 1:22:38.880 message if the song isn't on point. But listening to 1:22:38.920 --> 1:22:41.360 it just now, I mean that beat, it's kind of hot, 1:22:42.479 --> 1:22:45.439 like the simplicity of the rhyme schemes, and like it's 1:22:45.439 --> 1:22:49.599 not super densely like lyrically rhythmically, it doesn't need to be, 1:22:49.600 --> 1:22:52.120 because like it gets the point. Clock cross really clearly 1:22:52.120 --> 1:22:54.519 what their demands are. They're working in plant with no 1:22:54.600 --> 1:22:58.320 air conditioning, these tempts, working like slaves and never get higher. 1:22:58.880 --> 1:23:03.000 Like it's really like it it comes through crystal clear. What. 1:23:03.479 --> 1:23:05.160 I don't care whatever your ship is about. I do 1:23:05.280 --> 1:23:07.400 not like hooks or motherfucker's just say the same thing 1:23:07.439 --> 1:23:09.840 over and over again. Hey, it's not for me. It's 1:23:09.880 --> 1:23:12.519 like it's like it's like a protest. It's like a rally, chap. 1:23:12.600 --> 1:23:17.120 I'm not going on strike. We're going on strike, like 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:21.400 just filling the spots. It's more easier to say that 1:23:21.560 --> 1:23:23.240 ain't no power like the power of the people, because 1:23:23.240 --> 1:23:25.200 the power of the people don't stop. Like, let's be real, 1:23:25.280 --> 1:23:26.960 if we were going to go to a picket rally, 1:23:27.280 --> 1:23:31.679 a picket line like that ship, catchy, that ship say 1:23:31.680 --> 1:23:34.680 it all day, I feel you. I look, I'm not 1:23:34.840 --> 1:23:37.840 saying that it's not catchy. I just think there could 1:23:37.840 --> 1:23:39.920 be more to it. I don't know if there were 1:23:39.920 --> 1:23:42.559 more to it, would it be as mass appealing. That's 1:23:42.560 --> 1:23:44.760 a kind of rapule you like ship that it is 1:23:44.760 --> 1:23:46.880 a little more dense, a little more technical. That's I 1:23:46.920 --> 1:23:50.800 didn't say anything else. Then that's what I like, all right, 1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.200 So the next example we wanted to talk about was 1:23:56.080 --> 1:24:00.400 Astbrox Labor, which is almost twenty years old now um 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:03.439 asad Rock. It's a hip hop recording artist, a producer 1:24:03.479 --> 1:24:06.320 who resides in Portland, Oregon. He was at the forefront 1:24:06.320 --> 1:24:08.439 of a new wave of underground and alternative hip hop 1:24:08.479 --> 1:24:11.719 accent emerged during the ninety nineties and nine In early 1:24:11.760 --> 1:24:18.559 two thousand's Thank You Wikipedia Wow this album Labor Day. 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:20.960 This is a concept album involving around the life of 1:24:20.960 --> 1:24:23.519 the working class in the United States. He was one 1:24:23.520 --> 1:24:25.360 of the best, some would say one of the best 1:24:25.400 --> 1:24:28.719 albums in hip hop in two thousand one, and rightly 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:31.360 regarded as one of the most important records of the deaf. 1:24:31.479 --> 1:24:35.760 Jux Era was a indie hip hop label early two 1:24:35.760 --> 1:24:38.799 thousands run by LP and I want to look particularly 1:24:38.840 --> 1:24:40.920 at the song nine to five is Anthem and which 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:44.200 he has this kind of like spoken wordy outro or 1:24:44.280 --> 1:24:47.559 hook rather um where he says, now we are the 1:24:47.600 --> 1:24:54.200 American working population hate the fact that hate our job. 1:24:56.920 --> 1:24:59.320 So like he's got it's kind of like this manifestoe. 1:24:59.680 --> 1:25:04.080 The the way that the the vocals are layered, it 1:25:04.120 --> 1:25:06.479 sounds like a like a like a like a chance, 1:25:06.520 --> 1:25:09.840 Like there's like many voices coming together to proclaim this, 1:25:10.040 --> 1:25:12.960 like we the American working population hate the nine to 1:25:13.040 --> 1:25:14.879 five day and day out, and we'd rather be supporting 1:25:14.880 --> 1:25:17.000 ourselves by being paid to perfect the past times that 1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:18.519 we have harv but based solely on the fact that 1:25:18.520 --> 1:25:21.160 it makes a smile and it sounds dope, which I've 1:25:21.160 --> 1:25:23.280 always loved. I've always loved that line. I mean, that's 1:25:23.320 --> 1:25:26.360 pretty much is that's that's that's the thing right there, 1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:30.160 that is that is like, that is the hip hop 1:25:30.280 --> 1:25:35.080 relationship with the work I think right there, although you know, 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:37.840 going back to my last critique, I think that he 1:25:37.880 --> 1:25:41.200 could with that hook could use a little bit of 1:25:41.280 --> 1:25:49.599 the simplicity, Yeah, simplicity of going on a little bit 1:25:50.680 --> 1:25:52.599 to get in the studio. Yeah, we need to link 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:56.320 these two and they need to make the BA strike 1:25:56.439 --> 1:26:00.719 protest working. Yeah. Yeah. And then he has this interesting 1:26:00.720 --> 1:26:04.280 critique of like of the working class and how they 1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:07.040 get sucked into the prison, the how they get sucked 1:26:07.040 --> 1:26:10.519 into the military industrial complex. In the second verse, he says, 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:12.960 it's the year the land shark, dry, sand parched down. 1:26:13.000 --> 1:26:14.840 Get these men some water. They're out here being slaughtered, 1:26:14.840 --> 1:26:16.200 and the meaning its war, so you don't have to 1:26:16.240 --> 1:26:17.960 bother so you can sit and soak the idiot box 1:26:18.000 --> 1:26:21.320 trying to funk their dollars. So it's like this relationship 1:26:21.320 --> 1:26:22.680 between the people at the top and the people at 1:26:22.680 --> 1:26:26.559 the bottom, where we have these generals, these politicians, these 1:26:26.920 --> 1:26:29.519 folks that like fucking Raytheon or whatever, that are getting 1:26:29.520 --> 1:26:32.479 all the money for war, and then these working class 1:26:32.479 --> 1:26:34.479 folks that are getting sucked into it so that they 1:26:34.520 --> 1:26:36.439 can send and soak the idiot box and trying to 1:26:36.439 --> 1:26:40.920 sunk their dollars. I was interesting. The whole album though 1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:45.040 in general, like has like the theme of Yeah. One 1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:47.360 quick thing though that I think is so that I 1:26:47.400 --> 1:26:50.519 wanted to mention for heads that maybe didn't notice this 1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:55.280 for the outro samples Dolly's Partners nine to five, Yeah, 1:26:55.880 --> 1:26:58.559 cup of Ambition and yawn, It's runch and my life 1:26:58.600 --> 1:27:01.320 is a medicine anyway. Another thing. I never knew that 1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:04.799 before I looked at it recently. The thing is my mom, 1:27:04.800 --> 1:27:08.520 who is the weirdest thing, like born and raised in Liberia, 1:27:10.040 --> 1:27:14.040 huge country music fan, like like old country, like Conway 1:27:14.080 --> 1:27:16.880 Twitty ship like that, you know what I'm saying, Like 1:27:16.880 --> 1:27:18.800 like she and she got into it while living in 1:27:19.080 --> 1:27:23.719 living Yeah, like so growing up, I've heard the song 1:27:23.880 --> 1:27:27.160 nine to five like a million times. I didn't even notice. 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:30.400 That's like a perfect sample for the song because she's 1:27:30.439 --> 1:27:33.840 pretty much on the same themes that he is. All Right, 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:36.879 well that's it for us today. Thank you for listening, 1:27:37.080 --> 1:27:40.519 and please go watch Irony's show, The Black Athenians. It's 1:27:40.520 --> 1:27:43.960 on YouTube live every Friday, I think like four or 1:27:44.000 --> 1:27:46.559 five pm. And yeah, I think we should end this 1:27:46.640 --> 1:27:56.880 the way we end everything. Let's wrap Huh going on strike? 1:27:56.960 --> 1:28:04.080 What what shout out to go on strike? Going on strike? 1:28:04.200 --> 1:28:10.160 Hey st Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going on Yeah. I'm 1:28:10.160 --> 1:28:12.719 representing for my neighbors and all the other people trying 1:28:12.720 --> 1:28:15.120 to get that paper. All the late birth that we 1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:17.640 get to our employeers is really really getting kind of 1:28:17.640 --> 1:28:19.920 motherfucking annoying, and I'm geting kind of over it. I 1:28:20.040 --> 1:28:22.000 need to get a lawyer. I need to bury these 1:28:22.000 --> 1:28:24.479 employers I love in the soil because I'm tired of it. 1:28:24.520 --> 1:28:26.840 I need to get strike it. Other people know that 1:28:26.880 --> 1:28:28.840 we'll be striking lights some light lights and lighting and 1:28:28.920 --> 1:28:30.959 you know what's about to go and hear the huge surprise. 1:28:31.040 --> 1:28:33.680 I need to tell everybody going union noise. You need 1:28:33.760 --> 1:28:35.880 to go and just get up and harp again. Then 1:28:35.960 --> 1:28:38.599 you need to go and make collective bargainness. You could 1:28:38.640 --> 1:28:41.200 get a huge new contracting if they want to let 1:28:41.240 --> 1:28:43.280 you down lay your moll flat because you don't want 1:28:43.320 --> 1:28:46.280 a regular job. Don't want that. We're just screaming at 1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:49.040 the sky like a tom cat, skipping up the sky 1:28:49.160 --> 1:28:51.719 like a tomcat. I'm up the picket line asking where 1:28:51.720 --> 1:28:55.040 my mom's Everybody come here. We're about to be bombast, 1:28:55.080 --> 1:28:57.280 about to have those bomb blast against the employers that 1:28:57.320 --> 1:28:59.560 don't have that contract in my fucking name with the 1:28:59.640 --> 1:29:01.479 pen on the paper. Yet this ship might be so 1:29:07.840 --> 1:29:11.080 we are waiting on reparations. We got one Cosby on 1:29:11.120 --> 1:29:12.880 the beats. He did the beats for this episode to 1:29:13.240 --> 1:29:18.280 check them out. Um see you guys next week. Waiting 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:21.800 on Reparations as a production of I Heart Radio. Listen 1:29:21.840 --> 1:29:24.479 to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, 1:29:24.680 --> 1:29:27.280 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.