1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Jennifer Esposito. 2 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: women who dared to pivot out of one career and 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. This week, 6 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to share the story of Jennifer Esposito. Many 7 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: of you know her best from shows like NCIS or 8 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: Blue Bloods, but it's her latest pivot into writing, directing, 9 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: and producing that is truly the amalgamation of her career 10 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: and her life. Fresh Kills, which comes out this Friday, 11 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: June fourteenth, is Jennifer's directorial debut, and it is truly 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: a work of art. What I love about the film 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: is that it flips the script on the typical mob 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 2: boss genre, centering the experiences of the women, not the men. 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 2: It explores the rage and the subsequent violence that manifests 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: in this community of women who were born into a 17 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: volatile life not of their choosing. Jennifer wrote Fresh Kills 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: after seeing so much pain and rage around her growing 19 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: up in Staten Island. It was something that stuck with 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: her and something she couldn't understand. It both fascinated and 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: haunted her, that is until she too went through a 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: series of life experiences that made her rage. After starting 23 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: off her career working with Spike Lee and John Singleton, 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: Jennifer was blacklisted by what she describes as a quote 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein esque producer. Shortly after, she went through a 26 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: series of intense health issues and was passed from doctor 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: to doctor without proper care or diagnosis. She made adjustments 28 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: along the way, and she did her best to make 29 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: it in the industry that she had dreamt of since 30 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: she was a child. But she was tough, she was angry, 31 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: and soon Fresh Kills was born. I can tell you 32 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: as someone who had a chance to see the film already, 33 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: it is an incredible film. You can feel the fury 34 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: and you empathize with the battles the women in the 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: movie are fighting. But now after hearing Jennifer's story, I 36 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: can see it all clicked together. As the character's battle 37 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: with access to opportunity, so does Jennifer. As the characters 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: rage about the lack of opportunity because of their circumstances, 39 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: so does Jennifer. It is a beautiful film made by 40 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: a beautiful and inspiring woman. So after you listen to 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: this episode, be sure to go see Fresh Kills in 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: the movie theaters. 43 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: Enjoy. Jennifer Esposito is my name? What do I do well? 44 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: I've been an actress for two almost thirty years. Tell 45 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: us about where are you from? Where did you grow up? Like? 46 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: Tell us a little picture for us, Little Jennifer. I 47 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: was born in Brooklyn, was there until probably third grade, 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: and then we moved to Staten Island and that's where 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: it all starts. I was that kid who always needed 50 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: to understand why. I'm still very much like that, Like 51 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: if things don't add up for me, I'll constantly be 52 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Like that's part of the 53 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: reason why I don't sleep, because if there's an un 54 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: answered question, which there usually is about life for the 55 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: world or work or whatever, I need to understand and digest. 56 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: Oh that makes sense now. So I was that kid 57 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: that really needed to understand why. But there was always 58 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: a feeling of I feel like I'm different than my 59 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: surroundings and not looking down on any one kind of way. 60 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: I just always felt like I see things differently, and 61 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: as I grew up it remain very true. Remember in 62 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: the eighth grade year book, I put, oh, I want 63 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: to be an actress, and I was ridiculed because where 64 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: I grew up, it didn't seem like dreams mattered, It 65 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: didn't seem like future mattered. It was a very interesting culture, 66 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: and especially for the young women I felt. I mean, 67 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: I look at that now and can see it, but 68 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know it then. But I remember always thinking, like, 69 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't the first priority of just having 70 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: a boyfriend or looking cute or talking about you know, 71 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: did you see Sally's dress? Like I don't care about 72 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: Sally's dress? Like I was like listening to like Bette 73 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: Midler sing the Rose, Like why is she seeing like that? 74 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: It's so deep? Like what does this movie mean? I 75 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: would write poetry and I'd like, you know, these things 76 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: that just didn't quite fit to my family, didn't quite 77 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: fit to my surroundings. So I just alway felt like, oh, 78 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: there's something else that I was supposed to leave, and 79 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: like I was supposed to leave and go and go 80 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: do this thing and be this thing and create. So 81 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: I knew that as a little kid, and as I 82 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: got older, I realized what that was. And I used 83 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: to be plopped in front of a TV and I 84 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: would watch Grease over and over and over. I knew 85 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: every dance move. I would watch West Side Story when 86 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: I was a kid, and I'd throw myself off the 87 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 1: couch pretending I was a jets I was a jet person. 88 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: And you connected with acting, singing, dancing, writing, Did you 89 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: pursue all of those equally? 90 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: No, So I remember wanting to. I remember telling my mom, 91 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. Can you take 92 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: me on auditions? And was like, absolutely not, it's not happening. 93 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: Do you want to do that when you're eighteen, go 94 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: do it? But not doing it now? And honestly, I 95 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: don't know exactly if it was for the right reason 96 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: that I'm going to say, but it was a good 97 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: decision because being a child in this business, I cringe. 98 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: I cringe. It's hard enough for an adult. For a 99 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: child in your formative years, I really do, it's scary. 100 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: So again, I knew that I wanted to do that, 101 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: but I didn't know exactly what that was. But I 102 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: assumed it was an actress because that's what I saw. 103 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: I never saw a female filmmaker. I didn't see that 104 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: I didn't see about It was always if I did 105 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: see that, it was a man. So when I did 106 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: get older, I left at eighteen and I put myself 107 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: through acting school Lee Strausberg. Waiting tables. Do you remember 108 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: where you waited tables? Oh? Yes, do I remember? It 109 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: was the coffee shop. I waited tables with Maxwell the singer, 110 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: with Tate Diggs, with like a whole bunch of like 111 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: now they're you know, famous, and went on their way. 112 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: But it was like this bunch of kids with dreams 113 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: and we would wait tables and then go out dancing 114 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: until like the next day, and like had to blast. 115 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: Bright eyed and bushy tailed. Jennifer began finding her way 116 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: in the industry she had loved since she was a kid, 117 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: but it wasn't as creative or as easy as she 118 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: had once dreamed. 119 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: But as you get into the business and you realize, 120 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: oh wait, I'm trying to be an actress to understand 121 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: that why and tell those stories and talk about that 122 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: injustice and create and yeah, and then you're giving your 123 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: lines and it's like, I'm a hand in foot model. 124 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: My first job, that was my line on loving and 125 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: I said, Hi, I'm a hand and foot model? You 126 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: want to take my pictures? And I was like, is 127 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: this it? Is this what I are the tables for? 128 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: And something never set right with me about the kind 129 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: of things that I was was placed in front of me. Yeah. 130 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's where it kind of started to like, 131 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: oh wait a minute, but it still felt worth it. Well. 132 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: After school, you know, I did a lot of plays 133 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: and stuff for no money, and like all that stuff, 134 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: and that that's where it's like, ah, this is feeding you, 135 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: you know that, because it's all about expression, right, any 136 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: kind of creativity, and that is something I need. I know, 137 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: I need, Like if I'm not creating something, I get depressed, 138 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: Like I need to create. So I would do these 139 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: plays for nothing, and I was in school and doing 140 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: these student in films and whatever. But when I finally 141 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: got an agent and they sent me out for my 142 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: it was my first audition and it was for Loving 143 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: and it was those five lines of I'm a hen 144 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: and foot model. Are you kidding me? I was like, 145 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: I fucking made it. Oh, was like Hollywood's calling any 146 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: day now, any day. I was like, this is this 147 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: is amazing. I thought it was incredible. So yes, it 148 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: didn't happen right that that the realization of like wait, 149 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: because I was just so happy to be there, and 150 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: that's wonderful, but you know I did want more. 151 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's how a lot of women. 152 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: I think that could apply in so many contexts, so 153 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: many content like we're just so happy to be in 154 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: the room, like percent that we put up with a lot. 155 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: That brings me to a huge point because I teach, 156 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: I've always taught throughout my career, and I teach a 157 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: lot now. I had to get back to just the 158 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: work and the art, and I teach now, and I 159 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: teach a lot of women. And we have something called 160 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: the I'm sorry monologues, and swomen at the moment they 161 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: felt one of them that they felt they lost themselves, 162 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: and the I'm sorry is either to themselves or it's 163 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: to someone or it's ironic I'm sorry, like I'm not 164 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: fucking sorry. And I cannot tell you how powerful this 165 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: has become. And one of the biggest things that comes 166 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: up is this notion of being grateful, grateful to just 167 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: be there, grateful for just being around and being able 168 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: to sit in the same room. And what I keep 169 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: challenging is I can be grateful, because I struggled with 170 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: this for many years. It's like, but you have a job, 171 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: be grateful, but this isn't the job that it's not 172 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: even not the job I want. It's I can do more. 173 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: And when you say, as a woman, I can do 174 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: more and I want more, you're condemned. And it's like, 175 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: but it can be both. I can be grateful to 176 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: be here and thank you very much for the job, 177 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: but I can also say I want more. 178 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 2: Jennifer had big dreams and she knew what she had 179 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: to give, and unlike so many women, she believed in it. 180 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: But this was the early aughts, and women who were 181 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 2: too loud or too outspoken, or didn't fit into the 182 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 2: quote ideal version of a Hollywood star were put on 183 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: the back burner. Jennifer resented it. 184 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: So when you speak up for any reason in my business, 185 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, that's so difficult. Who wants to work 186 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: with anybody who's asking questions? If you are a female 187 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: and you're going to ask too many questions in that space, 188 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,479 Speaker 1: there's someone behind you that's not going to ask questions, 189 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: and the days easier. It's like, and I do get that, 190 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: but it puts women in a position that they know 191 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: if they want more and if they speak up on 192 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: any behalf of like just saying, hey, agent, do you 193 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: think I could see something? It's like this one. But 194 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: in the beginning, I heard you're too ethnic, you're to this, 195 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: you're to New York, you sound like you're from New York. 196 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: You're this, you're too sexy, not sexy enough, You're not this, 197 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: you're not white. I was like, what what am? I? 198 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: What am? I? Then tell me what I am? And 199 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: I really did spend an awful lot of time trying 200 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: to be this all American. What they were telling me 201 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: all American was, which was blonde, blue eyed, quiet and 202 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: not make anybody scared. I get be you know, likable 203 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: to every And I tried for years because I wanted 204 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: the roles, because I wanted the roles, and I was 205 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: being told, no, you're going to play you know, the 206 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: friend of that girl or not even and I thought, well, okay, 207 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: I have to try and be Julie Roberts. And it 208 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: took many years until I realized, like I am, I'm 209 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: not Julie Roberts. I'm just not her in any way, 210 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: shape or form. I mean, she's lovely and she's great actress, 211 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: but I'm not her, and it definitely, it definitely took 212 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: its toll over time, time for sure. 213 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: Finally, Jennifer landed a big role in the Spike Lee 214 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 2: film Summer of Sam. 215 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: Working with someone like him on a role that was real, 216 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: that was made for an actor, and I was an actor, 217 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: like I studied for years and I love that work. 218 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: That was incredible. To then go back and like do 219 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: just whatever. It was hard. But what happened after that 220 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: is I after that movie came out, I kind of 221 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: that's when it was like I catapulted to Hollywood and 222 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: I was thrown into a lot of different situations, and 223 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: one in particular was with an amazing who's now passed 224 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: filmmaker and I remember he hired me, but then he 225 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: called me into his office a week later and he said, 226 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm letting you know no one wants you here, and 227 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, what does that mean? Like what 228 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: I think? I was twenty six and he was fighting 229 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: with the producer on the movie, and a very long, 230 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: painful story short, I became a casualty in the fight, 231 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: as did a few other cast members. But this was 232 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: an notorious brutal producer, a Harvey Weinstein esque type of person. 233 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: He literally had the power and used it to completely 234 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: end a young girl's career at twenty six years old. 235 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: So he fired me for no reason. He wanted someone 236 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: else and he got her. But then, like anybody that 237 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: called and was like, hey, I want to hire her, 238 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: he was like, don't hire her. Said I was a 239 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: drug addict, locked myself in the trailer. Never happened. I 240 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: don't do drugs, never did. If you do, great, she's 241 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: not me. And that was a really, really painful time 242 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: because he literally that kid who was waiting tables and 243 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: that kid who had this dream since she was a baby. 244 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: He literally took it because he could and killed it. 245 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: And I got dropped by my agency and they were like, 246 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: we know what he did, but we can't help you 247 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: because he's who he is and he's that big and 248 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: we have to have clients that work for him. So 249 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: I casually got moved to the desk of the assistant 250 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: and then casually out the door. And I couldn't get work. 251 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: I didn't have an agent and I'm a manager for 252 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: two and a half years. How did you come out 253 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: of it? After those two and a half years, I 254 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: had a new team, and I remember actually the conversation. 255 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: There was a movie that they had interested in me 256 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: and my new team had to sign for me to say, like, 257 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: this person's not a drug addict. And the reason why 258 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: I know this, By the way, I forgot if it 259 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: was Spike or this filmmaker that has passed. It was 260 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: John Singleton. One of them called me to tell me 261 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: what was going on, because no, I didn't understand what 262 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: was going on, because what had happened is I was 263 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: getting an offer to do Charlie's Angels, which was the 264 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: biggest of the biggest movie at the time for a 265 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: young woman, and all of a sudden it didn't happen. 266 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: And I was like, wait a minute. I was in 267 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: the room with the ladies, like this was my job. 268 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: What happened? And we found out from Yeah that he 269 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: put the kaibash on one of the biggest things that 270 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: ever happened in my career. Could have happened. That's unbelievable. Yeah, 271 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: so I had to live with that. But like I said, 272 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: he was up here. I mean he was at every oscar, 273 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: every and I was begging for work when I was 274 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: right at that cusp of like I was going to 275 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: break into a new place where you know, you get 276 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: something like Charlie's Angels, and not that that's like the 277 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: work I want to do, but it was. It was 278 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, at the time, it would have been a blast, 279 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: and there were great girls that I got to meet, 280 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: but it also would have opened doors for me, you know, 281 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: to do work that I would have loved. But instead 282 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: it was like going through my money broke, traumatized. Yeah, 283 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: at oh, how did you have the strength to stay 284 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: in the field at all. It was a hard time, 285 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: but it was also a beautiful time because if I 286 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: wasn't that kid, I would have never been this woman. 287 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: And I'm very proud of who I am and very 288 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: proud of what I've done. I know for a fact 289 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: that that didn't happen with that producer and my road 290 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: was easier. I would have never wrote and directed what 291 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: I just did because, as I've said to a few 292 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 1: people that know me well, Fresh Kills, my film was 293 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: for the twenty six year old kid who got slaughtered. 294 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: I gave her her career back in the way that 295 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: she could do it, not the way someone else told 296 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: me I could do it. I gave that to that 297 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: kid because she I needed to right the wrong again. 298 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: It's that thing in my brain that won't let me 299 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: rest like that wasn't fair. Things were taken from me 300 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: that I didn't agree to, and then you set me 301 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: on a course that I didn't deserve. That's not okay. 302 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: So my film really was to that kid. 303 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 2: Before we get fully into fresh Kills, we're going to 304 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 2: dive into her battle with not only her health, but 305 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 2: with the healthcare system and the all too common issues 306 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: of not being heard as a woman in pain. But first, 307 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:34,239 Speaker 2: a quick word from our sponsors. Let's layer in the 308 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: personal with the professional here a little. When was it 309 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 2: that you started to get really sick? 310 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: So I always had, uh, they would say, a sensitive stomach, 311 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: and I was a sensitive I was sensitive, so I'm 312 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: very sensitive. But what that does is it really makes 313 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: your body in this state of attack kind of nervous 314 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: all the time. So, and I grew up in a 315 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: house that was it's a little insane, to be honest. 316 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: And I was very scared inside my house for different reasons. 317 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: And I was very scared outside of my house because 318 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: I grew up around a lot of mafia and the 319 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: girls always wanted to kill me, so I was scared. 320 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: I just thought fear was your emotion every day, Like 321 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: I there's a line in the movie It's like every 322 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: day of my life, I'm afraid, and I don't feel 323 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: it anymore. That's how I just existed. So my nervous 324 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: system was constantly at a state of panic. And I 325 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: saw my mother deal with anxiety disorder, and of course 326 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: I started to have panic attacks and anxiety issues at 327 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: like thirteen, and my Mom's like, here, take some out 328 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: of it, and it's fine, I have it too, and 329 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: it's like, that's probably not the right answer. But so 330 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: I kind of thought, because I saw her like this 331 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: and I grew up like this, that oh, this is 332 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: just life. This is I'm supposed to be vibrating all 333 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: the time, and I'm supposed to be sick stomach all 334 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: the time. And here take peptobysmal if your stomach is sick, 335 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: and here taken out a van if that's not working here. 336 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: And it was just like, that's not correct, and I 337 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: really didn't know that. So when I started, when I 338 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: moved out, and you know, eighteen nineteen, I started to realize, like, wait, 339 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: this isn't right. But I was in such a spiral 340 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: of like work in school and work in school, that 341 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: I actually went to get a wisdom tooth extracted, and 342 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: they gave me too much anesthesia and threw off my 343 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: chemistry already that was vibrating in such a way that 344 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: I became a gloraphobic and I had to move back 345 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: in with my family. And a lot of people don't 346 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: know this, but I was. I literally moved back in 347 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: and I didn't leave the house for like a year. 348 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: I was really really not well. I would have panic 349 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: attacks that they were really bad, and had to relearn 350 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: how to walk up the street. I remember my dad's saying, 351 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: just walk with me, Just walk with me up the street. 352 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: It was like nope, I can't do it. Like the light, 353 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: everything would just send me off. And the depression. They 354 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: put me on so much medication. And it was then 355 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: that I started to learn how vitamins and food affected you, 356 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: because in my house, like oh, here's a bagel, here, 357 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: I have some pasta. So from then I started to 358 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: really research vitamins and food and all that, and I 359 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: got myself on a schedule and started taking B vitamins 360 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: because I knew that had to do with nervous system, 361 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: and so I actually healed myself through that and then 362 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: got back out into the world, but still always had 363 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: an underlying like oh my stomach or maybe it was this, 364 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: maybe is that, But I was more aware, so I 365 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: through that throughout the years, I went to every kind 366 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: of doctor you would imagine, from you know, natural path 367 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: to regular doctor to gi then I was going to 368 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: like healers and like whatever just helped me. And everybody 369 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: would chalk it up to your emotional you're sensitive, you're 370 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: a woman, it's your hormones, it's And it got to 371 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: the point when I was probably around thirty thirty early thirties, 372 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: things started to hit the fan. Also, as you can 373 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: hear my career, the stress of that was so huge, 374 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: so that taking that in trying to be someone I 375 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: wasn't all of it. I just broke down. My body 376 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: started to break down in a really serious way, like 377 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: my nails started to fall off, my skin was peeling off, 378 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: my hair started fallout and clumps. The panic attacks started 379 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: to come again in a major way, like a major way. 380 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't now, I wasn't somewhere. I'd be on my 381 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: couch at home, and all of a sudden, this wave 382 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: would come up, like I got to get out of here, 383 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: like awful, or I'd just pass out, fall asleep, and 384 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: then like I was working during this time, and it'd 385 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: be like, all of a sudden, you know, where's Jennifer 386 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: for lunch? Or and I had to sleep, had to sleep, 387 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: and I'd get recurring sinus infections and until the day 388 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: I never forget. I was on set. There's a show 389 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: I was doing called Samantha Who. And I was on 390 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: set and it was in between a take and a 391 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: tooth fell out of my mouth, like literally, I was like, 392 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute. I was like, is my tooth? Like 393 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: your tooth just fell And it was like there's something 394 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: for a man. There's something like I've been going to 395 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: doc for years and I would be vegan and then 396 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: I would be you know, everything I could try. I 397 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: was trying it and nobody was helping me. And again 398 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: it was just like. 399 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 2: You're a woman. 400 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: Here, take some some adavan, take some prozac. And I 401 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: was like, but that's not it. And now I am 402 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: depressed because I'm not well and nobody's listening to me. 403 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: So I finally went to this one one doctor and 404 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: she was a female general practitioner, and and she said, Okay, 405 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to figure it out. And she called me 406 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: maybe five days later and she said, Jennifer, you have 407 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: the worst case of ciliac disease I think I've ever seen. 408 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: I don't know how you're existing, because if anyone doesn't know, 409 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: silic disease is basically the villi that's around your small intestine, 410 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: which are responsible to take nutrients in from your food 411 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: and give it to the rest of your body to 412 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: keep you alive and functioning. They die and mine were 413 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: like beyond damage, so nothing was getting fed. That's why 414 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: my nervous system was shot, my bones like all of 415 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: this stuff was going on. So I was pretty sick. 416 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: I was really really sick at that point. And that 417 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: lasted for quite a while, and there were there were 418 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: professional repercussions for it. Oh my god, absolutely. I remember. 419 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: I was supposed to leave for a job maybe five 420 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: days after I got diagnosed, and I was told just 421 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: don't eat gluten. And I went to go do this 422 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: job and I literally collapsed like one off. I was 423 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: supposed to do an episode or something, and I was like, 424 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: I want up in the hospital, like you go through 425 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: a detox and no one tells you about that. I 426 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: went through such a bad detox from gluten. I wound 427 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: up in the hospital like it feels like you're coming 428 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: off heroin, Like really, it's awful. So then I couldn't 429 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: work and do anything. And then what I'm sure referring 430 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: to is then when I was able to move but slowly, 431 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: Blue Bloods came around and it was, you know, pitched 432 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: to me is like, you're going to be a partner, 433 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 1: but this show is about a family and you're going 434 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: to be part time. And I was like, great, that's 435 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: I can do that, and it's in New York and 436 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: it just wasn't that, and my pay was that, and 437 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: it progressed that. It was like, well, it's not that anymore, 438 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: so can we get the correct pay, because then I 439 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: can get help. I can get someone to help me 440 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: because everything I have to eat is has to be 441 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: by me. Because I had not only allergic to gluten, 442 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: I was allergic to eggs. I was allergic to dairy. 443 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: I was allergic to soy like I it was and 444 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: I was so so it was like two years before 445 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: I was like even anywhere near moving. Those people aren't 446 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: there anymore. I will say I have been back to 447 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: Blue Blood since and they're lovely and I really do 448 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: like them. But at the time, the people that were there, 449 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: they just said no, And it was like, what do 450 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: you mean, No, My co star is getting four times 451 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: the amount of me and I'm doing the same work, 452 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: And it was like, So it was about the fact 453 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: that I needed help because I was working so much 454 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: and I wasn't well. So yeah, it just turned out unfortunate. 455 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: At this point, Jennifer was ready for a change, a pivot. 456 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: Dare I say? 457 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 2: The industry had taken its toll on her, and as 458 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 2: she learned more and more about the impact of food 459 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: on her health, she decided to open a gluten free bakery. 460 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, she opened Jennifer's Way in the East 461 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: Village to create a space for people with celiac to 462 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 2: eat safely. 463 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: Only about the food. It's about the nostalgia. I used 464 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: to walk up the block with my dad when I 465 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: was a kid and get a jelly donut. That was 466 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: like a bonding moment. And I didn't you think like 467 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: birthdays and like Christmas and like those things that bring 468 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: family or friends. That was all hard now, so there's 469 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: more to it. So I thought, let me open a bakery. 470 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: Why not. I hate that business, let me get let 471 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: me get in another business. And it was wonderful for 472 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: a while. It really was wonderful. It was a joy 473 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: to have parents bring their kid in. And I never 474 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: forget this man came in the first week we're open 475 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: and he put his little boy on the counter and said, 476 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: you can have whatever you want, because that's always the 477 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: thing with silly acts, like we'll go to dinner and 478 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: it's like, not what do we want, it's what can 479 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: we eat safely? And that's not fun, especially for kid 480 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,239 Speaker 1: Like my whole childhood was about like what food are 481 00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: we going to eat? You know, or your cousin or 482 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: your friends, Like let's be cookies, let's get pizza kids. 483 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: It's not fun. So it was just a nice experience 484 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. But that didn't last. No. 485 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we had big opportunities to you know what 486 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: I mean. I had some huge opportunities on the table, 487 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: but the partners I wound up taking on, you know, 488 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: wanted to change some ingredients in an unhealthy way, and 489 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: I just unfortunately the integrity I can't go out on 490 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: my name, you know, to be in that kind of 491 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: business when the margins are so low, you know, it's 492 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: a part of a business brain that I couldn't lessen 493 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: the quality just to make a dime. Yeah, I couldn't 494 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: do it. 495 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: Jennifer left the business after a difficult legal battle, but 496 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 2: continued her work by writing a book on her experience 497 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 2: with Celiac. When We Come Back, Jennifer talks about how 498 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: Fresh Kills became the synthesis of her experiences. At what 499 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: point did fresh kills or the concept of fresh kills 500 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 2: start in your brain? 501 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: So I mentioned that I grew up around mafia, It 502 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: started way back then, because, like I said, I'm that 503 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: kid that was constantly like why so when these girls 504 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: that I grew up around were so violent? Like I 505 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: saw a lot of violence as a kid from the neighborhood. 506 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: It was just a tough neighborhood and a lot of 507 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: big mafia community, and I just always thought, like, why 508 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: are they so angry? Why are they so angry? And 509 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: it stayed with me and I thought, you know, when 510 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: I left Stettnan, I thought, well, it must be because 511 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: their families are involved in this, and like I guess 512 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: that would make me angry. But as I went through 513 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: my life and I started to go into my career 514 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: and then around I don't know, MID started to that 515 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: anger and that rage that I saw started to feel 516 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: very familiar to me. And I thought, Oh, it's not 517 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: about who their family is. It's like they were born 518 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: into the family and they didn't have a choice. And 519 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: that's how I felt. I felt like my life, whether 520 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: it be from doctors at the point, from the business, 521 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: or just from society, tell me you're a girl, So 522 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: this is your road. You're a girl, this is your hormone. 523 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: Like what you're saying doesn't really penetrate. So this is 524 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: the map. And what if I don't want to go 525 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: forward with that map? What if I had my own map? 526 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: And I realized that it was more about that rage, 527 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: that anger was more about choice. So that's where I 528 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: realized this story started to really just it would keep 529 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: me awake at night, and especially when I would hit 530 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: walls in the business of wanting to do more. It 531 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: would be like this little voice going, you know what 532 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do, write fresh kills, and it was 533 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: like shut up. And it just got to a point 534 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: where I was honestly so tired of hearing myself complaining, 535 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: Like who wants no one wants to hear you complain. 536 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: And I also realize no one's coming. And as you 537 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: get older, and it's really plain and clear, it becomes 538 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: really clear really no one cares, and that like you're 539 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: getting older, you're lucky, you have a job, You're lucky 540 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: if you even get a call, you're how old. Seriously, 541 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: you go past thirty, they're like, man, boom bye, you'll 542 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: start it'll start slowing down. It's it's insane, but it's true. 543 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: And I just was like, I need to do something. 544 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: Stop complaining about what you're seeing. Stop complaining is not 545 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: enough female directors and writers. Stop complaining about where things 546 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: are for women. Stop. No one is interested, no one. 547 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm not interested in hearing you anymore. Like seriously, you're annoying. 548 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: So do something you think you can do it, do it. 549 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: And it was like okay, And I really got to 550 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: a place where I was you can only do something 551 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: so much when your heart isn't involved before it starts 552 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: to die. And I really felt like my soul was dying. 553 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: So I said, Okay, I'm going to sit down and 554 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: write and I'm going to do it or I quit. 555 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: And that was it, and I just kept going, what 556 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: do you want to do? We're gonna be husband and wife, 557 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna have kids. Your father's giving us the house. 558 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: Maybe I don't want to house my father where the 559 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: people and family? 560 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: Your people stop up and realize that. 561 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 2: You want that boy? 562 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: I know exactly who that is. I always have It's 563 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: my father. I know I'm. 564 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 3: Supposed to God, no girl, have respect. 565 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 1: You went by the rud and his mom. I did 566 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: not you. I'm your father. 567 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 2: The three main characters in the film, the two young 568 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 2: girls and you as the mother, really deal with the 569 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: violence and the anger around them, the way they internalize 570 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 2: their anger and the violence around them in three very 571 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 2: different ways. One of the girls becomes much more violent herself. 572 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 2: One of the girls internalizes a lot of it and 573 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 2: tries to find a way out. And your role as 574 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: the mother, you come to it with a place of 575 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: acceptance and complacency. 576 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: It's so complex because it's an acceptance because there is 577 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: no way out. So it's not an acceptance of like peace, 578 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: I accept It's an acceptance through a beatdown of soul. 579 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: But it'll come out in her reach to her daughters, 580 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: or why are you going to leave? Why do you 581 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: get to leave? Why do you get to do that? 582 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: And honestly, I think that's one of the biggest problems 583 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: we have as women. We've been helping women. Yay, I 584 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: love that quote and I want it to be so true, 585 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: But there is something when you see another woman doing 586 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: well and you're still hitting your head up against the wall. 587 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: There is a bit of like, why you not me. 588 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm not condemning anybody for it, because I do understand 589 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: the struggles, but until we really grapple with that and 590 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: make peace with that that her wins, my win, we 591 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: really can't go forward. So walking that line with the 592 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: mother of really wanting better for your daughters truly, but 593 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: also why her not me, it's a really fine line. 594 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: And I saw that sadly growing up, and it was like, 595 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: do so well, go do it. Don't forget me, because 596 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: if you forget me, I'm coming for you. Like and 597 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: that is that I don't know what that is. That 598 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: comes from a deep space of like, I didn't get 599 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: these opportunities. 600 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: You can tell Fresh Kills comes from a deeply personal space. 601 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 2: For Jennifer even when you can't identify with the characters' choices, 602 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 2: you can relate to their emotions, And I would imagine 603 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 2: it's because her writing comes from true honesty. 604 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: I really do believe in the amount of film festivals 605 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: we've played this movie, which has been great and amazing 606 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: to see it with so many different types of audiences, 607 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: these characters are touching people, male and female in ways 608 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: that are so beautiful to me. To me, that's always 609 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: what art's supposed to be. Its supposed to make you 610 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: think and question and talk and like, let's talk about 611 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: the human experience. So it is really doing that. And 612 00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: because they're not all perfect people like you said, yeah, yeah. 613 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: What is one thing that at the time you saw 614 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 2: as a real negative, but now in retrospect you see 615 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 2: it's having really built you to who you are now 616 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: and what you've accomplished. 617 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: I honestly think all of the all of all of 618 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: the pitfalls and all of the hurt and all of 619 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: the pain, and all of the struggle and all of 620 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: the violence that I saw and the like I said 621 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: before it, I would not have been able to do 622 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: what I just did if I didn't go through all 623 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: of that. And I really do mean that because this 624 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: was the hardest thing I have ever done. The writing 625 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: was beautiful. Writing is tricky, but it's beautiful. Process It's hard, 626 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, being on set twenty one days for time periods, 627 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: no money, COVID winter, it's hard. But that's not even 628 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. That was beauty, utiful because I'm 629 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: still in the work. If I can be in the work, 630 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't care. I'll work fifty hour days, I don't care. 631 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: But it was still the struggle of getting a female 632 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: project done that still to this day is a war. 633 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: It really is. So if I didn't go through all 634 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: of those things, I don't think I would have been 635 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: able to do this. I will say this is one 636 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: of the best films I've ever seen. Thank you, really 637 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: think you really. 638 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: Moved me so deeply. And being in the theater the experience. 639 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 2: You're right, everybody was engaged and the energy in the room, 640 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: everybody was so with it, like with every beat of 641 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 2: the story. I appreciate that, and they really are. And 642 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 2: not to toot my own horn, that's not who I am. 643 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: But you are not the first person that has said 644 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: that to me. Like I will say this, if you 645 00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: care about seeing different stories. If you care about seeing 646 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: real human stories and artistic expression and connection with others 647 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: as human beings, you really have to support the independent films. 648 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: You really, really and I beg you to come and 649 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: support this one in the theater because it will send 650 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 1: a message that these films. Because we had an amazing 651 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: festival run, We've won awards, and still we were told 652 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: by the industry like, well, you don't have any stars, 653 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,720 Speaker 1: no one cares, and that's not true. People don't need 654 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: big stars to care about story, about human story. They 655 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: don't care. And we cannot just monetize art and we 656 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: just can't. We are going to be in such a 657 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: scary play soon, especially with AI. We have to champion 658 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: these smaller films. So Fresh Kills is out now, and 659 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: please go buy a ticket and tell you friends. 660 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for joining us. About everybody 661 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 3: go out and see the movie. So I really appreciate 662 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 3: you doing this. Oh, thank you so much. Absolutely thanks. 663 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 2: After a full festival season, Jennifer is busy promoting the 664 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 2: official release of Fresh Kills, which is this Friday, June fourteenth. 665 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,359 Speaker 2: Buy your tickets and go see it. Trust me, it's 666 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: worth the trip. 667 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: To the Theater. 668 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 2: You can follow Jennifer on Instagram at Jspisito. She has 669 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 2: some amazing and hilarious promotional content on there right now, 670 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 2: so be sure to check it out. 671 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: And if you go see fresh. 672 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: Kills, take a photo and tag both Jennifer and us 673 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 2: we can see talk to you next week. 674 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. 675 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 2: If you made it this far, you're a true Pivoter, 676 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 2: so thanks for being part of this community. I hope 677 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode, and if you did leave us 678 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 2: a rating, please be nice your friends about us. To 679 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 2: learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at 680 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 2: she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up for our newsletter 681 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 2: where you can get exclusive behind the scenes content, or 682 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 2: on our website she Pivots the Podcast Talk to You 683 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 2: Next Week special thanks to the she Pivots team, Executive 684 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 2: producer Emily eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media connoisseur 685 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 2: Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and logistics coordinator 686 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 2: Madeline Sonovak, and audio editor and mixer Nina Pollock. 687 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: I endorse she Pivots