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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything, all right, First thing I want to

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Speaker 1: do is um Garrett, act like I act like I

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden just fell over dead and and

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Speaker 1: it was just silence, and you had to be like

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Speaker 1: and you all said it to step into the role

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Speaker 1: of being the host. The reason I'm doing this because

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Speaker 1: this is the first one, honest, but tell us, this

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Speaker 1: is the first met Eater podcast that y honest who

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Speaker 1: tells was not here because now he's now got a

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Speaker 1: crippled up knee. He feels that though he's gonna get better,

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Speaker 1: I've written him off. It just seems to me once

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Speaker 1: someone's knee goes bad, it's just they're done. So here

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Speaker 1: I am, I've fallen over dead. What would you How

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Speaker 1: would you proceed? I'd say a moment of silence for

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Speaker 1: Yanni's knee, and then I'd ask Rick man, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it. I just you wouldn't just jump into like, no,

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Speaker 1: you'd make me do it, Garrett. I'm totally unqualified. So

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Speaker 1: but it began. The conversation began then that that was

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Speaker 1: the voice of Garrett Smith, and then and then as

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Speaker 1: though dealing poker, the next Corey, and it just introduced

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Speaker 1: say say a few things about yourself. My name is

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Speaker 1: Corey kas Merrick. Sometimes catch marks, sometimes catch mark like

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Speaker 1: depending on how rushing they're feeling or polish. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is my i'd say seventh meat eater. As far

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Speaker 1: as working with these guys as a cameraman, but uh,

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Speaker 1: tell him some of the other camera man, um. I

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Speaker 1: do the show called mountain Man where you fall around

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Speaker 1: our mountain man's excuse me, where we fall around guys

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Speaker 1: living up in the woods, up in the mountains, killing

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Speaker 1: animals for food. I do snowboard, extreme sport, filming, some

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Speaker 1: documentaries here and their commercial work. You worked out that

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Speaker 1: new movie on Brandon On Brandon, Yeah, we took sixteen

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Speaker 1: wild Mustangs from Mexico all the way up to Canada.

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Speaker 1: Took us five and a half months. I rode about

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Speaker 1: thousand miles of the ride. Yeah. Yeah, I learned a

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Speaker 1: lot about horses and you were a ride. I rode, yeah,

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Speaker 1: holding from the were you trying to film from the horse?

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Speaker 1: We did? We did film with a little DSLR camera

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Speaker 1: off the horse and then we'd get off the horse,

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Speaker 1: run ahead about until we were out of breath, you know,

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Speaker 1: set up a shot and they ride by and then

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Speaker 1: we have to catch up with them. And we know

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Speaker 1: we did that for three thousand miles and my buddy

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Speaker 1: Phil bear aboo and uh no, it is a good success.

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Speaker 1: You guys got to check it out. It's on Netflix

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Speaker 1: right now. Philip Phil barbou film three Memter shows he did. No,

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Speaker 1: I've seen it. I've seen it on Netflix and I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it yet, but I've seen the got like

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Speaker 1: heavy treatment on Netflix. I'm excited to see it. Man,

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Speaker 1: I was, I've been. I've had it queued up a

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Speaker 1: couple of times and like kind of you can't go wrong.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm I'm going home directly to watch it. Man,

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Speaker 1: does the movie does it take a pro wild horse

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Speaker 1: or or or or does it does it try to

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Speaker 1: stay like how does it fall on the political? Not

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Speaker 1: the political, but you know, like the there's a debate

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Speaker 1: about wild horse where some people feel like we should

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Speaker 1: treat him like a native wild animal and some people

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Speaker 1: feel like it's feral livestock. We're right down that middle

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Speaker 1: line there, they explained. They explained that debate. Everyone gets there,

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Speaker 1: you know, a fair share as far as like debating

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Speaker 1: their side. And I think we did a good job

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Speaker 1: at keeping it right down the middle, explain both sides

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Speaker 1: of the story and in the end, you know, you

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Speaker 1: kind of make up the decision about you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess there is no end for the horse, and like

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Speaker 1: there's it's an open ended story. Really, I think we

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Speaker 1: need to hunt him. Yeah, I need them now. Speaking

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Speaker 1: of that, we're up on Prince Wales Island right now.

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Speaker 1: I want to get back to that. I definitely get

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Speaker 1: back to that. It's not like this world. I want

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Speaker 1: to get back there. That's real important that you just

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Speaker 1: said that we're on Prince Will's Island. We're just out

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Speaker 1: running shrimp traps tonight and Moe is naming off a

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Speaker 1: number of places where he's eating the horse. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean enjoyed it. I was getting to that, but I

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Speaker 1: was just kind of kind of easy into it, you know,

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Speaker 1: bridging off that I'm an aggressive host. It's an aggressive host.

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Speaker 1: It's called a segue and editing. I was kind of

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Speaker 1: trying to build a nice natural one. Oh sorry, Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm Morgan or mo Fallon. Um, and uh, I've been

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Speaker 1: what we the first time we worked together was almost

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Speaker 1: eight years ago now on a number of little pilots

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Speaker 1: as you were married or not married. That's how I

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Speaker 1: would know when it was you were married. A yeah,

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Speaker 1: you were always married. Um. But we did a number

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Speaker 1: of little pilots together as we kind of geared up

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Speaker 1: for figuring out what would be a show, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of based on I guess your philosophies and lifestyle

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Speaker 1: and you know stuff and um. And then did a

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Speaker 1: show for a travel channel together, UM, for which I

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Speaker 1: was the director of photography, and then moved on to

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Speaker 1: start doing these the Meat Eater shows, which I was

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Speaker 1: originally the director of photography, and then I kind of

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Speaker 1: segued into directing, which was the beginning of me starting

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Speaker 1: to direct things, um, which is what I've continued on doing,

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Speaker 1: moving from cinematography to directing. So I've been a cinematographer

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Speaker 1: for fifteen years. Yeah. When you when you did, because

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Speaker 1: you worked on when you were young, like just starting out.

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Speaker 1: You worked on Ali big feature films. Yeah. Yeah. It

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Speaker 1: was Michael Mann's assistant for two years, um, right out

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Speaker 1: of UH school, which was a kind of an amazing

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Speaker 1: experience and he made like Miami Vice. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: he yeah, he made my advice the TV show. But

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Speaker 1: he also made I mean his great films are like

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Speaker 1: Last of the Mohicans, which is like a masterpiece. He

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Speaker 1: he he. I think is it's also a masterpiece? Um,

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Speaker 1: inside the Insider, that's that's also a masterpiece. Uh you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, dude, Collateral is a good film, maybe not

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Speaker 1: a mass to piece, but you still talk to him,

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Speaker 1: you know. I ran into him at the Director's Guild

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Speaker 1: in l A like a few months ago to screening

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Speaker 1: for The Revenant. Um, it was really interesting. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen him in almost fifteen years. Ah as uh you

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Speaker 1: know as I and I was twenty four year old

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Speaker 1: kid coming out of film school and worked for, you know,

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Speaker 1: directly for one of the biggest directors in the world.

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Speaker 1: I went from like, you know, living in a crappy

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Speaker 1: dorm room until like flying on a private jet you know,

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Speaker 1: to Africa with him. It was a it was a

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Speaker 1: real head trip. Um, how did that happened? Not to

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Speaker 1: interrupt now, you know it's interesting. I like I got

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Speaker 1: a two day job as a p A to fill

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Speaker 1: in for someone in his office. Explain what that means.

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Speaker 1: It's a production assistant job, so entry level in the

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Speaker 1: in the in film and television production as a production assistant.

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Speaker 1: Um can I can I interrupt real quick? Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: have a role that we made up called the w

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Speaker 1: P A wilderness Wilderness production assistant. That would be like,

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Speaker 1: that would be a level above you know, a normal

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Speaker 1: p A because it requires some additional skills that are

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Speaker 1: somewhat esoteric, you know. For me, it was like, can

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Speaker 1: you make coffee and and clean up, like literally make coffee?

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Speaker 1: That would be a job. Yeah, make yeah, exactly, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: make coffee the way Michael likes coffee made, which, trust me,

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Speaker 1: is a high pressure situation. If you think it's not

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Speaker 1: a high pressure situation, you don't know, Michael Man, are

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Speaker 1: you thinking, oh, yeah, I'll wind up like directing shows?

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Speaker 1: And I mean it was it just seemed like that

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Speaker 1: in the world. But I thought I thought, I thought

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Speaker 1: I'd end up directing feature films. I really thought I'd

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Speaker 1: go down, um, like a narrative and feature film path,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. But the more and more the more

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Speaker 1: I was exposed to like documentary filmmaking, the more I

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Speaker 1: realized that it really fits my you know. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess my god given talents, you know, my particular set

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Speaker 1: of of like inherent skills you know, um better than

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Speaker 1: you know, looking at a script and in making a

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Speaker 1: future film, which is very like a very I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: it's an art form, so I'm not you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking down on it at all, but it's, um,

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Speaker 1: it's a very contrived art you know, it's and UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that was particularly right for me in

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Speaker 1: the end. But what was very right was, you know, documentary,

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Speaker 1: which is you exist in the moment, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you use your instinct and your skills, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: and your problem solving on a moment to moment asis,

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Speaker 1: which uh, for me, it was like very appealing because

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Speaker 1: you're figuring out the story as you go along, you know.

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Speaker 1: Tell the others. Tell the show you worked on for

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Speaker 1: a long time. Can you talk about that? Yeah? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Biggest Biggest Loser? Yeah, oh yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: for how many years to do that? I did? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I did three years The Biggest Loser, ninety six episodes.

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Speaker 1: And then talk about what you've been doing in the

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Speaker 1: three and a half years since you since you uh

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Speaker 1: since because we worked together for years. I mean together

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Speaker 1: together for years. I mean we're still in communication all

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Speaker 1: the time, but we worked together together for years and

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Speaker 1: then we were still we still work with the same company.

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Speaker 1: But now you do now you direct episodes of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I directed. I direct a couple of different shows now. Um,

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Speaker 1: a show called Mind of a Chef, which is based

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Speaker 1: on I mean, you know it is what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, eight episode seasons of based on a chef.

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Speaker 1: So we'll pick a chef and like kind of dissect

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Speaker 1: their life, their philosophies and um. That's really that's a

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Speaker 1: very very fun show to work on because it's like

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Speaker 1: total creative freedom. We can look at you know, we

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Speaker 1: can look at a chef and and come up with

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Speaker 1: all kinds of wild ways to tell their story. Um.

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Speaker 1: Then I also am a cinematographer and director on Anthony

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Speaker 1: Bourdain Parts Unknown, which is a show on CNN which

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Speaker 1: is like, uh, a food, travel, culture, kind of political,

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Speaker 1: kind of everything else kind of show, you know, Um,

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Speaker 1: which is a little different in that it's a host

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Speaker 1: based show, you know, so it's you know, one host

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Speaker 1: all the time, Anthony Bourdain, you know, and it's really

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Speaker 1: his looking at the world through his filter. You know,

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Speaker 1: how many of those of you every year? You know,

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Speaker 1: I used to shoot when I was just shooting them,

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Speaker 1: I would shoot eight or nine a year, And now

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Speaker 1: that I'm directing him, that really limits the amount you

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Speaker 1: can get out. So I do too. Maybe I'll do

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Speaker 1: three next year directing, and then I'll probably shoot two

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Speaker 1: of them as well. Um, not not directing but as

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Speaker 1: a cinematographer. But that's about as much time as I

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Speaker 1: can get in, you know, because I mean directing your

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Speaker 1: you know, you're two and a half months in or

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Speaker 1: two months in pre production, just sitting at a computer,

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Speaker 1: you know. Then you're ten eleven, twelve days in the

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Speaker 1: field filming, and then you're you know, another six to

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Speaker 1: eight weeks or so sitting in front of the computer

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Speaker 1: again as you edit, you know, as you edit the show. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's exteresting, man, it's engrossing. They're little films, you know,

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Speaker 1: but uh yeah, I mean really very rewarding show as well.

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Speaker 1: Um so yeah, and then you know, hopefully more of these.

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Speaker 1: Now Mandus did his first uh that was that your

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Speaker 1: first uh guesting guesting on a show. That's funny after

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Speaker 1: all this time, it's the first time I have really

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Speaker 1: been on camera for the duration of a show, you know,

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Speaker 1: and felt like kind of what it's like to stand

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Speaker 1: on the other side and have someone like point a

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Speaker 1: camera at you and be like, okay, so now say

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Speaker 1: something cool and try to come you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: come up with interesting you know, ship that you think

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Speaker 1: people would be, you know, would want to hear, and

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Speaker 1: in your force to like, you have to appreciate the

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Speaker 1: importance of coming up with something because you deal with

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Speaker 1: the other end of trying to put this stuff together later. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you realize like, no good when you bomb out. Yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 1: you get into some weird you know, in my position here,

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Speaker 1: you get in some weird like Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff, where like I'm kind of I realize

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Speaker 1: as I'm doing this, I'm kind of tainting the process.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, if you're going to talk about like

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Speaker 1: pure documentary stuff, just the fact that I have so

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Speaker 1: much inside knowledge, I'm like, I was aware as we

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Speaker 1: went through this process that I was like clearly manipulating

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Speaker 1: something inside because I know how it'll cut together and

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Speaker 1: how it'll all work, and you know, um, the hardest thing,

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Speaker 1: which shows like this, which is that you know, it's

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Speaker 1: very very difficult to get the amount of ideas and

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Speaker 1: material that you want to get across to tell a

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Speaker 1: story into twenty two minutes. You know, it's it's a

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Speaker 1: real difficult process. You know, when we sit around, let

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Speaker 1: me come back there. I want, I want to keep,

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Speaker 1: I want, I want to keep. No, i'na say it.

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Speaker 1: I doesn't stay real quick because I'll forget we said around.

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Speaker 1: We'll be like, yeah, we want to like coming up,

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Speaker 1: we want to do an episode about Dad's right. Um Joannice,

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Speaker 1: his dad, you know, brought him up hunting and has

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Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting ideas about what he thought

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Speaker 1: his kids would get out of going to hunting camp

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Speaker 1: and being exposed to this sort of cycle of there's

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Speaker 1: a handful of guys that hang out and they meet

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Speaker 1: every year and and sort of how you interact and

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Speaker 1: how you kind of come together and and fulfill you know,

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Speaker 1: and pursue goals and come into this this camp and

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Speaker 1: assign people like different tasks and make the whole thing

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Speaker 1: work smoothly and get along well and very differences and

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Speaker 1: and know what subjects are sort of just not good

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Speaker 1: to bring up and just how to hang out, you know,

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Speaker 1: and he felt that it was like a great gift

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Speaker 1: to his to his son to bring him in that world.

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Speaker 1: We've had these conversations, so we're like, okay, we should

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Speaker 1: do an episode about Dad's you know, and be honest's

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Speaker 1: dad's always umed to go on a moose hunt. So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take on a moose hunt. And and in

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Speaker 1: the end, you know, we keep talking about it like

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Speaker 1: the dad's thing, right, like be honest dad, the dad thing.

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Speaker 1: To us, it feels that way when you watch it

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Speaker 1: will be like these guys were hunting moves and there

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Speaker 1: was this, and there was that, and there was a

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Speaker 1: bear and oh yeah, someone's dad was there, and it'll

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Speaker 1: be like, but you but it really feels like you're

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Speaker 1: going to it really feels like you want to make

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Speaker 1: a comment about Dad's definitely, yeah, because it's so it

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Speaker 1: winds up being in this kind of thing where's all

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Speaker 1: this like uncertainty and action stuff and you know, shooting

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Speaker 1: guns and chopping animals up and ship like the thing

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Speaker 1: you were wanting to talk about. Sometimes the only winds

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Speaker 1: up being like a hint, yeah, but if I can

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Speaker 1: if I can interject real quickly before you move on

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Speaker 1: to One of the reasons why that's so difficult to

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Speaker 1: do is that if you if you were to make

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Speaker 1: a show where you're like, I want to talk about dads,

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Speaker 1: and you just you came out of the gate just

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Speaker 1: swinging and and like wanted to relay all your information

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Speaker 1: and all your thoughts and feelings about dads and all

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Speaker 1: the stuff you want to get across in the show.

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Speaker 1: So it would feel so phony and preachy, and and

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Speaker 1: you know up its own asks that it wouldn't work.

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Speaker 1: There's a way that when you go into the edit

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Speaker 1: that you have to divulge a story that you know

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Speaker 1: is kind to the audience. You know, that allows the

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Speaker 1: audience to get a sense of tone and place and

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Speaker 1: feel a sense that they're they're involved in the story,

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Speaker 1: that they have some steak um before you're able to

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Speaker 1: sell high concept ideas, you know. And so you realize,

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Speaker 1: like in a twenty two minute show, by the time

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Speaker 1: you've set all that stuff up, you know, and you've

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Speaker 1: brought them into the experience, and you want to now

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Speaker 1: divulge your information, You're like, you have very little time

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Speaker 1: to do that and then tell the rest of the

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Speaker 1: story points that get you from A to B, Like

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Speaker 1: you gotta then actually kill a moose and then butcher moose,

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Speaker 1: and then you don't have a meal out of up moose.

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Speaker 1: It just becomes the time to get ideas across is

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Speaker 1: so whittled down that what you end up with is like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: what's the most concentrated salient point that I can interject

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Speaker 1: at this one particular place where I can get an

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Speaker 1: idea in um because that's about my only thing to

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Speaker 1: have it become the show about Dad's I think of

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Speaker 1: it as being somewhere between nine and eight twenty, like

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Speaker 1: we just wanted we did the thing we wanted about

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Speaker 1: Aldo Leopold. Okay, what's all said done will be probably

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Speaker 1: about if you if you broke out the minutes or

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Speaker 1: the seconds or whatever, maybe about ten percent about the

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Speaker 1: one thing we talked about going into it. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that sounds about right. But that's the I mean, those

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Speaker 1: are like the shackles of the twenty two minute you know,

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Speaker 1: UM format. It just we're saying minutes, were talking about

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Speaker 1: a thirty minutes elevision. You got two minutes, you know.

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Speaker 1: So that's like a standard form for the television industry.

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Speaker 1: Is like twenty you know, a half hour twenty two,

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Speaker 1: a one hour forty four you know. Um, you find

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Speaker 1: it like a forty four minute show seems like it

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Speaker 1: should be harder to make, and it's like way, way

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Speaker 1: easier to make a good one, you know, um, because

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Speaker 1: you actually have some breathing room and some time that

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Speaker 1: you can you know that you can get your ideas

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Speaker 1: across and really like structure, something that is interesting for

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Speaker 1: people to watch, takes them, brings them into the story

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Speaker 1: and the experience and is like coherent you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: So anyways, you know, but but I like them personally.

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Speaker 1: I like the twenty two is because they're they're very challenging,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're challenging, and when you get a good one,

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Speaker 1: you like feel real proud of that. And and it's

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Speaker 1: a nice digestible size show for people to watch. I

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Speaker 1: used to hate it, but I like it. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think it's better in a lot of ways when you

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Speaker 1: can do it well, you know. Anyways. Rick, Yeah, my

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Speaker 1: name's Rick Smith. I Uh, I'm I'm not a hunter,

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Speaker 1: but I uh filmed a lot of wildlife stuff and

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Speaker 1: started uh writing and kind of helping produce some of

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Speaker 1: the Apex Predator episodes with Remy who is like the

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Speaker 1: master hunter. So it was good. Uh. I always knew

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get your first time as being out hunting. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I always felt some of the wildlife stuff that I

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Speaker 1: was doing was like hunting with a camera. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of grizzly bear stuff where you were stocking

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Speaker 1: and getting close, but it was just with a with

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Speaker 1: a camera in some way. So it felt pretty natural

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Speaker 1: to do it. But I really respected the z b

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Speaker 1: Z who who makes all this stuff uh with no reservations.

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Speaker 1: So as I was coming up as a uh in

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Speaker 1: in film school and figuring out what I wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: I saw no reservations and I was like, that's the

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff I wanted, wanted to make stylistic, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: but it felt very authentic, and uh so I was

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Speaker 1: super excited to start work on Apex and then this

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Speaker 1: is my second medi eater show and we did We

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Speaker 1: did Old Mexico and yeah it was awesome. Now what

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Speaker 1: what So you went to film school? Yeah? And then

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Speaker 1: how did you get into did you go into being

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Speaker 1: like that you wanted to film wild life? I mean

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I really had no idea I was. My

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Speaker 1: undergraduate degree was in biology, and I knew I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be a biologist as a did you know

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Speaker 1: what that meant being a biologist? Like, no, you just

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Speaker 1: I mean did it winds up being like a university thing? Right? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's why I did research. And you know, people, all

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Speaker 1: the professors I spoke with were like, it's not really

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Speaker 1: they weren't. Nobody seemed very enthused about what they were doing.

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Speaker 1: I think that's just a matter of old people just

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Speaker 1: talking about work period. But I wasn't convinced that I

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Speaker 1: was going to be able to do what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do. What just largely going a lot of adventures.

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Speaker 1: So I thought documentary film. I like film. I like film,

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Speaker 1: film and stuff. I had no idea what that meant,

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Speaker 1: and I went to grad program in Bozeman. It's an

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Speaker 1: m f A and science and natural history documentary film.

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Speaker 1: And I had no idea what that meant. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a what it's a it's science and documentary film

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Speaker 1: and rolled in. Yeah. So the premise was to take

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Speaker 1: people trained in science and train them in filmmaking. It

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Speaker 1: was like you and another guy, No, it's I mean

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. It was like a well in Bozeman,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, there's all these folks that are I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of taken over the industry at least in

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Speaker 1: some some aspects of it. A lot of guys working

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Speaker 1: for the BBC at that, winning some big awards, producing

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Speaker 1: stuff for nat GEO, a lot of folks work for NASA.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's but it's the skill set, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, um, it's not exclusive. You're range as

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Speaker 1: a scientist, then you have to learn like storytelling. So

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Speaker 1: it takes a little while to figure it out. But um,

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Speaker 1: yeah it's a weird program. But I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: in Bozeman, and yeah, I didn't know what else to do.

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Speaker 1: So so break it down how you were just recently

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Speaker 1: doing a job. But your job was just go out

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Speaker 1: and collect footage of animals, doing animal ship with just

396
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Speaker 1: like behavior. Yeah, so I mean a big part checklist, Well,

397
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Speaker 1: a big part of the natural history filmmaking deal is

398
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Speaker 1: you're you're having to tell stories with with just animals.

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Speaker 1: There's no host, there's no nothing blue if they called

400
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Speaker 1: blue chip wildlife you know television or film, and yeah,

401
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: you're you're shooting behavior and the progression, whether it be

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Speaker 1: over the course of the season. But these animals lives

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Speaker 1: in a way that people can watch it and actually care.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you're out hunting, you start to if

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Speaker 1: you watch an animal long enough, you start to understand

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Speaker 1: their story. Well you often catch them at the tail

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Speaker 1: end of their life too. That's exactly right, um, But

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Speaker 1: you're you know, when you have hours and hours of

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Speaker 1: watching an animal while the story unfolds slowly and over

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Speaker 1: the whole season. But to do it in a twenty

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Speaker 1: two minute show or of you know, forty four minute

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Speaker 1: forty four minutes, you have to be very uh I

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Speaker 1: guess precise about the imagery you get that tells the

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Speaker 1: story of animals that are out. Okay, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're watching a shitty wildlife documentary and they'll show like

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Speaker 1: a rabbit just looking like a rabbit, and then they

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Speaker 1: show a raptor, and then they show a rabbit and

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Speaker 1: an initial a raptor, and an initial a rabbit and

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Speaker 1: an initial a raptor, and you never see the raptor

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Speaker 1: in the rabbit together. And then also there's a raptor

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Speaker 1: that maybe it's the same one or maybe a different

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Speaker 1: one eating some nondescript hunk of meat on a fence

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Speaker 1: pole and they build out as though the raptor like

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Speaker 1: total artifice. So yeah, there can you Well, we're trying

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Speaker 1: not to. But the show that I'm working on is

426
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: for the Smithsonian Channel. Um. And then the grand scheme

427
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: of like natural history natural history films that the BBC

428
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: makes really expensive a lot of days in the field.

429
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's a time intensive, money intensive thing

430
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: to make a good natural history show. Um. The show

431
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: I'm working on doesn't have a huge budget, but we're

432
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: trying to not make it suck. So it's it does

433
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: trying to get both things in the same shot. You're

434
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: trying to be just like we're talking about this show. Uh,

435
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: you're trying to be authentic, and the audiences can they

436
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: can read bullshit. Um, And there's maybe a percentage of

437
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: population that doesn't care one way or another, but good,

438
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: good documentary film has a level of of authenticity to it.

439
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: So the audience at the end of the day knows

440
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: if you're getting if they're getting sucked with you know,

441
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: if there if something's happening, like if there's the rabbit

442
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: and the raptor and they never actually interact, but you can, Yeah,

443
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: you can construct. You can construct the narrative in a

444
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: way that doesn't reflect the actuality of what happened. And

445
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: I mean that's just the reality of making documentaries, right,

446
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: And so what what are you beginning with? Like what

447
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: is your when you when you're doing a job like

448
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: that when you wake up in the morning, are you

449
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: just a slaved or whatever happens? Or do you have

450
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: a very precise thing like the shows that you decide

451
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: you want to make about dads like I want you know,

452
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,479
Speaker 1: we have a premise that we want to go shoot

453
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: and you're aware of the premise, yeah, you know, the

454
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: overall structure. But in the end, like that the year

455
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: of a Bear, let's say, right, right, but you're sort

456
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: of the story is going to reveal itself and whatever

457
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: actually happens to some degree, you can try to, I

458
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: don't know, enable a certain situation to occur or be

459
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: there the right time in the right place, but more

460
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: or less, um, you get what you get out there. Um.

461
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: So in what percent of your work you're doing in

462
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: national parks? Yeah, so, I I mean I do. I

463
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: don't do a ton of just pure natural history stuff.

464
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Most of my work has been host based adventure filmmaking,

465
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: where I'm following a host much like yourself, doing something

466
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: and and it's kind of a hybrid of pure natural

467
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: history with with some you know, with a with some

468
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: humans in there um. But most of it, you know,

469
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: any good wildlife sequence. Most of it takes place, uh

470
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: in situations where the animals are habituated. This doesn't mean

471
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: they're not wild places, but they're used to seeing people.

472
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: You go to a place where certain animals are not

473
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: used to seeing you, and they're just gonna they're just

474
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: gonna run away. They're just gonna be like or I mean,

475
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: if it's super novel, maybe they'll like come close to you.

476
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: But more or less, you have to be in a

477
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: place where it's like a weird congregation, where your chances

478
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: of seeing something are pretty good and the distances required,

479
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: like I mean, to get a decent shot even with

480
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: a huge telephoto lens less than a hundred yards. So

481
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: that's that's close when it comes to these animals that

482
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: don't want to be around you. So but when that

483
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: guy finally got that shot of the snow leopard in it,

484
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: what was the program petarth I heard that he was

485
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: like a thousand yards, like some absurd distance away he was.

486
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: He was really far. But that was a place that

487
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: was like a known place. But he definitely spent a

488
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: lot of time in a blind. But he spent like

489
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: three weeks in a blind that shot for that, you know,

490
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: for that shot. But I know another guy that's working

491
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: on a show. I think it's funded by the Chinese,

492
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: but I think it's for Disney Nature, um. And he

493
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: got some amazing stuff and into beet snow leopards. Snow

494
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: leopards like way close. And it was largely because they

495
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: had a h h set of you know, individual cats

496
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: that were okay with their presence and they never put

497
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: the stock on. They never like threatened them because the

498
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: cats know they're there, and they I mean they got

499
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: I think they got some amazing stuff. So it's really

500
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: finding individuals or populations that allow you to get close

501
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: enough to tell the story um that that otherwise mostly

502
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: can't be told. Most wild animals don't want anything to

503
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: do with people. So I was talking to these guys

504
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: at down in Fort Bragg were the UH I can't

505
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: remember what one of the one one of the special

506
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: forces groups is based out of Fort Bray. I can't

507
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: remember what number. I know I'm a donner to hang out.

508
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: And these guys told me a story that one night

509
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: they were in a pass in Afghanistan staking out a pass.

510
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 1: Did I tell you this? I think you might have,

511
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: but I'll take story. They catch some guys, They catch

512
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: the suspected Taliban guys coming through the pass and they

513
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: start shooting at him, and one of them is carrying

514
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: a big recoilist rifle and they wing the guy and

515
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: he drops the rifle and then his his friends drag

516
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: him back down out of sight. And the guy sat

517
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: there all night with a thermal scope, you know, watching

518
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: two so he could hit whoever came out to get

519
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: that rife, because he knew someone was probably gonna come

520
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: get that rifle. And as he's watched that night, a

521
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: snow leopard came out and smelled the blood for that

522
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: guy got hit and he saw it. That's awesome. Yeah,

523
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people will never lay think myself included,

524
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: will never lay eyes on one of those things. Peter

525
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: Mathison wrote a whole damn book, never saw one. It's

526
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: like it's it's like Mount Mountins outside around Bozeman or

527
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: there was one at m s U Montana State You Niversity,

528
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: there was one spotted on campus at like two in

529
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: the morning. I got a text alert like watch out

530
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: for the mountain lion. But but there's cats out there

531
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: and you'll never you know, you'll never see them, and

532
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: uh they're there watching you and there and they're mostly

533
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: you know, I'm never gonna do anything. They don't they

534
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: don't eat people. Otherwise they would eat people, right, I

535
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: mean they killed like a deer a week or something.

536
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: They eight hikers in l Ah. You have a better

537
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: chance of getting I don't. It's like I'm not saying that.

538
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: Introduce yourself, Eric, Now you've ruined the entire conversation. When

539
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: was that, Eric Astro home, I'm a producer and director

540
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: at the same company that Mo works at UM and

541
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: that your shows, you know, produce on zero point zero

542
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, mostly have done travel advent sure production

543
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: all around the world, all around the damned world. Yeah,

544
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: lots of crazy stories from different corners, remote places. But

545
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: my first hunt was actually or that I was anywhere

546
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: near it was with you five or six years ago,

547
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: a doll sheep hunt. Yeah, I've never been a hunt before. Yeah,

548
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: and then before then and after then you worked for

549
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: other Yeah, bounced around a bit. Yeah, freelance lifestyle, yeah,

550
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: which I think, Uh, you know Corey and Rick here

551
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: also enjoy and Mo has in the past, bouncing between,

552
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, different shows, different adventures and different corners of

553
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: the world. I lived in Alaska for a little bit

554
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: doing a rescue show which was pretty wild. Rescued a

555
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: couple of hunters and like remote spots. Yeah, there was

556
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: a problem. I just remember there was. It's all kind

557
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: of blend together. I do remember. There was like an

558
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: eighty two year old guy who was just out on

559
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: a remote island, you know, and you know, off on

560
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: his own, had hunted all his life and was you know,

561
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: ended up having to call in to be rescued, but

562
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: really didn't actually want to be rescued. He was just

563
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: tough as nails and kind of just wanted to like

564
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: a re supply of some water and some foods. Who

565
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: could keep hunting. So it was yeah, some interesting uh yeah,

566
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: some interesting experience. No no, no, it's not Gonn carried

567
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: away water water, some bobo bis. What was he hunting for?

568
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was It was a really long

569
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: time ago. Uh but I imagine probably it was up

570
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: near a Sitka. Uh so, I don't know. It's on

571
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: the islands outside of Dear, Yeah, probably Dear. Yeah, but yeah,

572
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: everything from rescue shows to been down to Antarctic a

573
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: couple of times. Spent some time in Afghanistan, lots of

574
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: different places abouts of Africa, Yeah, lots of Africa. Yeah, yeah,

575
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: I think I think the biggest takeaway is is something

576
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: that we were talking about earlier today, which is just perspective.

577
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: You know, you gained some perspective on different people's you

578
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: know where they came from, their perceptions, and uh, it

579
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: helps you not to jump jump basically to conclusions because

580
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: everyone has a completely different paradigm. You know, you realize

581
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: very quickly when you step outside of your own neck

582
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: of the woods, so I speak. Yeah, it's a little shocking, yeah, yeah, surprising. Uh.

583
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: And now you're full time, you're full time. Yeah yeah,

584
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: very recently full time and CPZ and uh and just

585
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: moved to Montana, which is exciting. I was living in

586
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: reluctantly living in Manhattan for a long time. I left Colorado.

587
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: There aren't as many trees or mountains for me in Manhattan,

588
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: so I was kind of run around like in that case,

589
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: I think people saw me and my bike, pulling my

590
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: skis like behind me through Manhattan, like kicking off yellow

591
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: cabs quite often, like ice climbing stuff in my backpack

592
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: and heading like either to get to a train or

593
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: a plane to like escape, yeah, to escape out. Yeah.

594
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: I remember on time walking in New York and I

595
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: had found a deer skull in Wyoming and gave it

596
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: to Chris and Lydia who owns zero point zero or

597
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, two of the yeah, the founders, and uh.

598
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: A while later, they pointed out to me that there's

599
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: these little pyramids of dust underneath the skull all the time,

600
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: and I realized there's still some dermifted beatles or like

601
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: some carrying beetles living in the skull and they were

602
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: still active. And I was like, well, I'm gonna take

603
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: a home and clean it. So I'm walking and I

604
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to put in its on this walking

605
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: down into the subway station with a deer head skull

606
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: with antlers on it, some dried hair and stuff side it.

607
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: Still this guy sees it and he's so insistent that

608
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: I sell it to him that he comes into my

609
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: He like gets into my subway car with me. Just

610
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: he's flabber gases about this thing. Any amount of money

611
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: is fine, you know, And I'm I'm trying to explain

612
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: to him, like, listen, you don't understand the nation is

613
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: a wash in these things. You just don't know because

614
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: where you live that they're laying on the side of

615
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: the road. This is not like like this seems very unusual,

616
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: you know. So he's like, highly unusual. It's just not

617
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: you can you don't need to give me hundreds that

618
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: you get a you know, a forky deer antler. It's

619
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: a big world out there, buddy, and it's full of

620
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: deer skulls. Did you did you want to take the

621
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: money at one moment? Or here's the thing. I would

622
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: have been a second, but I've already given it to

623
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: Chris Lady. They loved it, but they just didn't want

624
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: it in their office. Was like a little like he

625
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: didn't even notice it. Every time I pick it up,

626
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: there's like little sawdusty things underneath it and they're still

627
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: in there, eating them whatever out of there. So I

628
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: couldn't then go like, oh, hey, you know, I know

629
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: you want me to take home and clean if I

630
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: sold it two guys in the subway. Here's your gut. Yeah, perspective. Now,

631
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: dirt you dirt myth? Explain again? Why they why not?

632
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: Why they call you? Explained dirt myth? Can I like?

633
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: This is my favorite story in the world. I had

634
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: ah that's the name of my uh photography company, and

635
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: it came from I had a speech impedimant when I

636
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: was young, and I'd introduced myself as dirt myth Garrett Smith,

637
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: because you dirt myth, amongst other wrong words. But still happens.

638
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: I still make up words occasionally, but not as bad

639
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: because nobody's calling dirt. Yeah, that's a compliment. Garrett does

640
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: more on this production than he does everything. He's running

641
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 1: the podcast machine right now. He's like mixing the audio.

642
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: I'm just pretending he's a horse in the field. He yeah,

643
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: he must. He must add one a hunter pound pack

644
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: with a camera with sticks on your shoulder the whole time.

645
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I was saved by Rick and

646
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: Eric when I about went down the mountain with that weight.

647
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: That was scary. Yeah, that was a close call, like

648
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: we'd joke about, like, oh you know, it was pretty

649
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: sketchy train or tough train. I mean there was a

650
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: point that Garrett fell and if he didn't stop tipping

651
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: over with a big pack on, he would have died

652
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: lost a leg. I mean you were, you were inches

653
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: away from the tipping point from which you would not

654
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: have regained control. And it was it was, I don't

655
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: want to say you would have died. It was significant consequence.

656
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 1: You think, yan, he's got problems. We're joking about about

657
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: dirt self arresting with the hunk of his own leg bone.

658
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: That was about it. This is classic. This is this

659
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: is Garrett just in general. Is everything's okay all the time,

660
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: even if it's not not. As he's falling, he says,

661
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: I'm okay as a right now, don't yeh, don't rip

662
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: my new pants still still in motion. Yeah, and then

663
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 1: you're like, watch the pants. He had so much holding

664
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: God to your pants to keep you from pitching over

665
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: a thirty ft drop. But you know, everybody knows the

666
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: Midnight Ride of Paul Revere. There was the midnight the

667
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: midnight Hike of that was that was heroic man, what

668
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: kind of But not really because I messed up? Yeah,

669
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: I forgot Later when you explain what you were seeing.

670
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: I realized that was a heroic effort. Man. Whether you

671
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: GPS on the way down, yeah a lot, Yeah, that

672
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: was that was a heroic effort. No GPS hiking out

673
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: at night in this is pretty This is rough terrain

674
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: in parts in a in a really yeah, in in

675
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: a bush wax sense. If you if you rated bush

676
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: wax and there's a bush rag rating scale, a bushwack

677
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: rating scale, I'm interested in looking at it was explaining

678
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: to me, but it would have to be on a

679
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: one attend This is like an eight bush Yeah, yeah, definitely,

680
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: because there's no Devil's club. There's no devil in the night.

681
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, I've been up up that hill and

682
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: that's that is a nine or ten man, but no

683
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 1: Devil's club. But it is I mean, that's sick. That's

684
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: just like and to come down in the dark at

685
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: night with only the range of view of your head

686
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: lamp um alone. I think the choice to go down

687
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: the drainage, which we initially were like, oh, he's going

688
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: down the drainage, that was a good move. Again though teamwork,

689
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: Like I had communication with you guys once I knew

690
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: that that would empty close. It was an easy call.

691
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: So that was that was moving with like fear motivating

692
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: you because it's about two and a half going down

693
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: with heavy I mean heavy packs. If you ripped down there,

694
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: you got that. Man. I was nervous. What if I

695
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: come back up? Man? Yeah, I wondered that there was

696
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: bourbon down here, whatever that was. I was hoping you'd

697
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: bring the burb and back up. About it, dude, I'm

698
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: addressed that the fish check used to have such an ample.

699
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: The alcohol section used to run from that first aid

700
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: kit over to that really old bottle of separated honey,

701
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: and it was just like it was four and a

702
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: half feet of liquor. It's down to two Bacardi bottles

703
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: that you know, the dimple on the bottom of bottle.

704
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: The Bacardi doesn't come up to the bottom of the dimple.

705
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: And then I think a Yager mice. I think a

706
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,479
Speaker 1: Yager miss just been here. I think since we bought

707
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: this place, who drinks Yager muster? Someone thought was good?

708
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: I need to bring up. Is that way you guaranteed

709
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: to always have a little bit of liquor. Uh. We'll

710
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: explain why we went up the mountain, why we went

711
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: up what we were doing this in particular time we

712
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: were on this was hunt. Yeah, this was um, what

713
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: was my second deer hunt? Uh? Yeah, I didn't say

714
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: first deer hunt. No, I'm just trying to tell the story, man,

715
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: But I like to start with a solid you know,

716
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: we'd be authentic. I have I have a way of

717
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: the VULTI I don't know why I'm I don't know

718
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: why I'm directing you, man. I guess just like a

719
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: chance I have to direct you and I just can't

720
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: turn down. No, that's fine, Yeah, you know, um yeah,

721
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: it's my second deer hunt. Um. But more importantly than

722
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: any of that, it was this is the this is

723
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: the spot of kind of our first real um, you know,

724
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: our first real like endeavor in this in this field

725
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: um or in this genre like together, you know, working

726
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: we had done we had done some of the pilots,

727
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: like I said, ramping up, but those were really just

728
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: like dicking around getting to know each other, kind of

729
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: ramping up, figuring out what a show would be. We

730
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: came here six years ago on the Travel Channel show

731
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: Wild Within. On the first episode, Um, it was the

732
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: first time that like all the gears were kind of engaged,

733
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: and we were really going after the kind of show

734
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: that we ultimately wanted to make people would see and

735
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: yeah and that, yeah, and that would be kind of

736
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: out there in the public eye, and you know, like,

737
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 1: you know, it was interesting that you have to also

738
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: kind of take into consideration the context at that time,

739
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: like six years ago, with what was what was available

740
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: on TV. But on mainstream television, people weren't doing content

741
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: about hunting. You know, even at that time, I know

742
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: there were executives within the network there that we're leery

743
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: about what we're doing, and we're constantly trying to put

744
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: their like shine on it, well, like well, it's not

745
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: a hunting show, and I'll be like, well, because we're

746
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: doing a lot of hunting, so you know, Um, but

747
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: I think people were in and I understand their position.

748
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: I you know, I think it was people were very

749
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: leery of like how that would be accepted on like

750
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: a mainstream network, you know, um, hope. Besides that, it

751
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: was the first time that we had the funding and

752
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: in the crew and the implementation of the technology and

753
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of the know how to

754
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: go out and kind of figure out what, you know,

755
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: how would we do this in an authentic way, UM,

756
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: that that that wouldn't either you know, ruin um the

757
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: standards that we hope to achieve in terms of television production.

758
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,959
Speaker 1: But also wouldn't you know, ruin the hunt um, which

759
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: is which is a delicate balance, you know, I mean

760
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: cameras are difficult animals in in of themselves. They're very finicky,

761
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: and they require a lot of attention, you know, and

762
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: a lot of input. We just to keep them working,

763
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: it will no, not just not even just to keep

764
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: them working, but to keep you know, to keep like

765
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: myself as a camera operator or a DP at that time,

766
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: in a position that I would be getting a shot

767
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: that would be actually telling a story, you know what

768
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: I mean. So meaning to say what I'm what I'm

769
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: getting at is a very complex way of saying that.

770
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: Like it's hard not to spook animals because you know,

771
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,439
Speaker 1: we want to tell the story in a way that's

772
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: the most conducive to like divulging a story and building

773
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: a story and making it entertaining and exciting, and like

774
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: we're good at that. I know exactly where I would

775
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: ideally like to be, you know, on various shots, um,

776
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: And by shots, I mean camera shots, you know, to

777
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: to document a hunt that is not necessarily conducive to

778
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: what what you know, actually stocking up on an animal requires,

779
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, So there was a lot of there was

780
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: a lot of learning in that, um, you know. But

781
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: like I said, it was you know, that was a

782
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: full time first time. We were full up and running

783
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: and going, and it was a very uh like a

784
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: very I think, a very exciting time in all of

785
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: our lives. We were really figuring out and writing the

786
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: genre like as we went along, because no one had

787
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: really done a show I think like this, and and

788
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: and by the way, I don't I don't know enough

789
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: of the um, I don't know enough of what was

790
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: out there at the time in the hunting world to

791
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: be a correct about this. So there maybe people who

792
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: are like, well, you know, you're not taking into consideration

793
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: this show or that show, or the work of this

794
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: person or that person. But in my perception, and to

795
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: the extent that I know you're familiar with network television,

796
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with network television for sure. But um, what

797
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is that I don't I don't

798
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: know that there was a hunting show that was doing

799
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: kind of what we were trying to do at that time.

800
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: We had talked a lot then about like, UM, hunting

801
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: shows as being made by hunters who were interested in

802
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: picking up a camera and like documentary what they were seeing. Um,

803
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: it didn't necessarily have like the television savvy to be like, well,

804
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: here's how you articulate like a complex narrative with dramatic

805
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: highs and lows and you know, tell a beautiful and

806
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: like cinematic story that has some like gravitas, you know. Um,

807
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: we were like we were TV folks that didn't know

808
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: anything about hunting, really didn't particularly know anything about being

809
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: out of doors, you know. UM, who had become by

810
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: virtue of like meeting you and getting to understand your world,

811
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: like interested in making shows about hunting and about this

812
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 1: world and about you know, how you live. Um, and

813
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: that took that was like a steep learning curve when

814
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: those worlds came together, because you don't you know, it's

815
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: not like you know, in a normal job like I'm

816
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: working biggest lot loser, like show up at eleven o'clock

817
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: in the morning at call time, hit the burrito truck,

818
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: you know, for craft service, and you go get my

819
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: camera ready and like the whole list of shots and

820
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: just stuff to accomplish. This was like really writing the

821
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: entire textbook as we went along because we didn't know

822
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: how to show like us would work. And it was

823
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: very exciting to pull a crew up that mountain, pull

824
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: a crew back down that mountain, have a successful hunt,

825
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, um, and figure out that a lot of

826
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: us just had no idea what we were doing outside,

827
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't. Really the most proud of and in

828
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: the whole process is that we were able to go

829
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: in and like not know what we were doing and

830
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: really you know, make some mistakes um on that first show.

831
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: Even though we walked away with a pretty successful show,

832
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: I still really like that episode turned out, um to

833
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: then be able to like reassess, figure out like what

834
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: we needed to tweak, how we needed to do things

835
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: and be a little bit better than next time, and

836
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: like be a little bit better and next time, be

837
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 1: a little bit better next time to the point where

838
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: we actually we were fined it into a show that

839
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: like really worked, man, where we weren't we were not

840
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: a footprint that was affecting the quality of like the hunts.

841
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,479
Speaker 1: We understood how to act around animals, we understood how

842
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: to um, you know, how to make the like the

843
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 1: hunting endeavor successful, but at the same time, we didn't

844
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: sacrifice like the beauty and the dynamics of like the

845
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: show and what we wanted to achieve in television. And

846
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: and that was like, that's a really that was a

847
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: really tricky balance. Like for reasons I said before about

848
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: where the shot kind of wants to be, you know, yeah,

849
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: I want to I want to Joe, because that's something

850
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: that even just now on we just did you know,

851
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: we just filmed the hunt right now. The it's just

852
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: it's one of the primary things I think about when

853
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: we're out is it's like, for instance, I'm not I'm

854
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: not having a very clear start. So we're out running

855
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: back till here. Now you're going through coastal rainforest is

856
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: very thick, and you come on these openings called muskegs,

857
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: and we'll get to the edge of the opening I

858
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: want to call right, So in my mind, the perfect

859
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: thing with that would happen would be that I would

860
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: hit the edge of the muskeg. I would settle in, yeah,

861
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: wiggle into the ground, like try to become the ground

862
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: or try to become a tree. And all the cam

863
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: the camera guys would just lay down, right, but they

864
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: know that they have to do a job. And the

865
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: minute any of them move, I want, on one hand

866
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: be like lay down, but on the other hand like,

867
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: well the reason we're all here, Yeah, it's because they're filming.

868
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: It's perfect. Perfect. What's your guys like, what's your guys perspective?

869
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: I mean, do you feel me giving you the evil eye? Oh? Yeah,

870
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: it's good. I don't know. There's there's a real functional thing, right.

871
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: If you don't film it, then you have no show.

872
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: But if you spook the animal will help, then you

873
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: also have no shows. So there's there's two competing no

874
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: shows that are possible. So you're trying to figure out

875
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: how to balance, how to balance it. And I think

876
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 1: what you guys did in creating this show was generally

877
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: television making. Television is about control, controlling all aspects as

878
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: in like setting up, setting up everything. It becomes the

879
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: production becomes the production first subject matter. Second to control

880
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: it and shoot exactly how you want to do it

881
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: and have the hours that you want to have and everything.

882
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: And this this show, uh is about in some ways

883
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: the hunt first and then the camera guys has to

884
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: have to figure it out. That was a clear decision

885
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: from the very beginning was that the hunt would be authentic,

886
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: and the hunt would be the process, and we would

887
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: accept whatever the outcome of that was, whether it was

888
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: a failed hunt or a successful hunt, and that the

889
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 1: the what it really took was was I don't brag

890
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: about a lot of things. I am a excellent, excellent

891
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: camera operator. And what it really took was having a

892
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: team that was like kind of at that level. Because

893
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: the camera, the language of camera is extremely articulate. There's

894
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of variations. What does that mean. What

895
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 1: it means is that um Um kind of was trying

896
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 1: to go on to explain that, but there's there's thousands

897
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: of variations of what you can do with a particular

898
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:48,959
Speaker 1: shot to tell um to tell a story, right UM,

899
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: for example, a shot that There's a couple of shots

900
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 1: that became hallmarks of this show that I was like

901
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: emphatic about from the very beginning that they have to

902
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: be because I had watched some hunting show and I

903
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: had seen like things like you were talking about earlier,

904
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: with the separation of the raptor and the rabbit. I've

905
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: seen that on hunting shows where they show an animal

906
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: and then they show a dude and and they feel

907
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 1: disparate from the very beginning. To me, I didn't. I

908
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: was not super interested in like the kill shot, like

909
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: the perfectly framed kill shot. I was very interested in

910
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: integrating the hunter into the kill shot. So that over

911
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: the shoulder shot of you taking a shot at an

912
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: animal was absolutely mandatory to me. It's it's nice because

913
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: it works well in terms of how your soilhouettes line

914
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,479
Speaker 1: up and in terms of the animals field of view.

915
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: You know, um, so that one actually that one actually

916
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: plays diminishing what you dish. It's well instead of two

917
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: dudes out there, you know, you see one dude, um

918
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: another one from Because that that's important to stick on

919
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: because the effect the effect gives. Is there anyone who's

920
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 1: ever gone hunting with their friends or whatever, like you

921
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time hunting my brothers, and just

922
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: the sneaking up on something. You're there. You don't sneak

923
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: out side by side now like Jerry, like there's the guy.

924
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: If you're calling for your friend or your friends, it's

925
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: his turn or anything like that. You're behind and you're

926
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: sort of seeing the world through this kind of like

927
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: this over the shoulder view, and it wind up like

928
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 1: in doing it that way, I felt really just felt

929
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: so immediate, like you were with someone in the woods.

930
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: Organic And that was again because you don't always see

931
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 1: what's going on. Perspective. Perspective was the most important thing,

932
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: and in developing this show, it was that we needed

933
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 1: to We needed to put the audience in the hunt.

934
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: You know, in order for a mainstream audience to accept

935
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: us in like really kind of understand it. In in

936
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: order to explain your philosophies in your world, we had

937
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: to put them in the context. And so it had

938
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,959
Speaker 1: to be experiential. If we had gone in and set

939
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 1: up a bunch of shots, you know, the audience would

940
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: instantly dismissed it. We were talking about my like kind

941
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: of my mentor earlier um in Michael Mann he used

942
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: to say, um, people are like smart as people, but

943
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: they're brilliant as animals. What he meant by that was

944
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: that people have this extrasensory perception of when shit is

945
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: just wrong in bullshit, and and people know an audience

946
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: knows if you look at you look at shows that

947
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: are out there, you know, when you're being shined on,

948
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: you might accept it as like entertaining and be like,

949
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: oh fine, I don't care, but rabbits don't talk. But

950
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: from the very right, Well, that's an extreme example, but

951
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking more like survivalist shows. You look at something

952
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: and you're like, something just doesn't look right about that.

953
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: That just that's not right. And it's like, yeah, it

954
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: isn't right because that's the back of a Walmart. I've

955
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of days out in

956
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: the woods. Seldom is my face dirty, right, it might

957
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: get a little sweaty, but sell them isn't dirty. But

958
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: but things like that, I mean people do pick up.

959
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: People do pick up on things like that. And I

960
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 1: think we knew from the beginning that we were treading

961
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: on like new ground in terms of mainstream audiences and

962
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and that that it had to be authentic.

963
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: That if we if we broke the if we broke

964
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: the audience trust in any way in terms of the

965
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: authenticity and what we were presenting, that we had really

966
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: like lost the battle because we were we were trying

967
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 1: to present the philosophy more than more than anything else,

968
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: you know, Um, and make it entertaining and all those things.

969
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: But we really was like a philosophy, you know, so

970
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: you can't lie to people. You can't like be like,

971
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: here's our philosophy and we really believe this, and you're

972
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: you're lying to them. You know what I mean? You

973
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: have to tell the truth in the language of camera.

974
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: You know, the language of how you tell that is

975
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: is super super important. You got to bring people into

976
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: the experience. I found early on that what would happen

977
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: a lot was I was following you, but I wasn't

978
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: looking at you. I was looking past you, right, I

979
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 1: was looking in the woods, past you and kind of

980
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: like moving from side to side and seeing you kind

981
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: of pass in front of me. So that became a shot.

982
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that needs to be a shot.

983
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: I need to put people in that experience. So I

984
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: with another shot. I came up with that I really

985
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 1: married into the language of the show was the long lens,

986
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: meaning that I'm on a more of a telephoto side

987
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: of the camera, pushing past your body which is in

988
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: soft focus in the foreground to the background, which was

989
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: really woods or something we were looking at, which is

990
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: in focus. And by by doing that, what I'm telling

991
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 1: the audiences Steve's looking at those woods. Steve's examining those woods.

992
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: We're now in a in a predatory mode. We're now down,

993
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: We're hunkered like you see wolves stock in, you know,

994
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: and our focus is what's in front of us. What's

995
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: happening in the foreground doesn't matter. We're looking we're looking out,

996
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: We're hunting now. And that became a very important shot.

997
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: That was a shot that put people in the moment

998
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: that they could understand on a cerebral in like primal level,

999
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm saying, there's a there's a language

1000
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: to all this, and there's there's hundreds and hundreds of

1001
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: shots like that, and and what the art is really

1002
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: in doing this is knowing the context, knowing the experience

1003
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: and um and learning when to plug those different shots in.

1004
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: Because this is all happening in the moment. It should

1005
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: be made clear to people that did we didn't bullshit

1006
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: any of this. This was real stuff. These were real events,

1007
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: you know, they were happening. We just over time learned,

1008
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: like you know, what what technique do you plug into

1009
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: what hole? As you go along and divulge the story,

1010
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: what is going to accentuate the story. What's gonna bring

1011
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: people into that moment. What I think it's important within

1012
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: that too, is we talked earlier about twenty two minutes.

1013
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: Now when I'm like, like they like think the when

1014
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: I when I when I was writing my Buffalo book, okay,

1015
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: and and I'm and I'm writing about the experience of

1016
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: being out looking for in Buffalo now. At a lot

1017
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: of times in my head is stuff like uh, you know, man,

1018
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: I like should I file for a deferment for my

1019
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: taxes this year? Or like, man, I should call my

1020
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: mom or often and all these other things. But that's

1021
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: not part of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Buffalo.

1022
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: So you create a sort of a distorted sort of

1023
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: you create sort of a distorted reality about what it

1024
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: is you're thinking about and what is you're talking about

1025
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: by highlighting certain elements what you're talking about and chasing

1026
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: twenty two minutes um over the course of seven days,

1027
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: eight days, chasing twenty two minutes just in the fact

1028
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 1: that you you're not you might not be bullshitting, but

1029
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: you're selecting out a very very small chunk of everything

1030
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: that occurred. Synthesizing. Yeah, if not symnpthesizing is not the

1031
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: right word. We are not we're we are not synthesizing.

1032
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: What we're doing is condensing and and it's a distillery.

1033
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: We're not condensed or condensed wouldn't be accurate. Condensed would

1034
01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: leave you one minutes of glassing. Yeah, in one minute

1035
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: of stalking. I don't agree with that. It's we should

1036
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: get out a dictionary. It is not it is, but

1037
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: it is definitely not synthesizing. Well, what does that synthesizing

1038
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: and officializing? Synthesizing would be to constructor reality. That's not

1039
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: what we're doing. We're selectively distilling the the the process

1040
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: selected distallation. I would I would say we are we

1041
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: are constructing an authentic version. So it is a synthesis,

1042
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: and that it doesn't reflect the reality because the reality

1043
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: took place over eight days and it's now twenty two minutes.

1044
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: But if you do it correctly, then it reflects the

1045
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: original experience in a way that is is honest. You

1046
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: can do it in a lot of different ways. You

1047
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: can synthesize in a way that is totally different than

1048
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: that initial experience, or you can do it in a

1049
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: way that is pretty closely parallels what you honest is

1050
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: probably the key word. Yeah. Yeah, it's like with porn,

1051
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: with porn and like, well how did these two ben't

1052
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: But it's they left out the part where it's it's semantics.

1053
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: I think you know it is semantics. But I think

1054
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: that was a very good explanation. I just the words

1055
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: synthesis has a connotation to me that the um that

1056
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 1: I guess doesn't jive with the way that I've viewed

1057
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: what we do. But I understand what you're saying and

1058
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: your I think we're exactly on the same because there's

1059
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: so many versions. And the reason I respect and I'm

1060
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: so happy to be working on this show is that process,

1061
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,959
Speaker 1: whether it be synthesis or distilling or condensing or any

1062
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: other chemical term you gotta go in here, is that

1063
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,959
Speaker 1: you have to figure out a way to cram in

1064
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: this experience. It is long. It's long. Nobody would ever

1065
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: actually in Norway, they do watch this stuff slow teeth TV.

1066
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: Have you heard about this, But it's but generally in

1067
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 1: America we watch, you know, twenty two minutes of something

1068
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 1: or very short amount of time, but we film it

1069
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: over this long period and we want to give the

1070
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: audience the best version of a way that they one

1071
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: will watch. That's one two that they respect, and that's

1072
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 1: those two things together. Man, it is really right. It's

1073
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: really hard to make. It's it's very difficult to make

1074
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: and it requires, like as go through the process of

1075
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: making a single show, it's hundreds of decisions of like, well,

1076
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: should we do this and we do that? Or now

1077
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,920
Speaker 1: is a Now are we sliding over the edge of

1078
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: what's bullshit? And you know? Now are we lying? Now?

1079
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 1: Are we telling the truth? Now? Is that? You know,

1080
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: it's a lot of balancing like that as you go

1081
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: through it, because you are you know, we can't say

1082
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 1: that this is a scientific analysis of like of of

1083
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: an experience. It's not. I mean we're by virtue with

1084
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: the fact of handing, you know, having our hands on it.

1085
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: Any time and any time an avot or any other

1086
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: editing machine is involved in a process, you are affecting

1087
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: the reality. I mean, you're now writing a narrative. You

1088
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:09,479
Speaker 1: know what it is is you know, we I think

1089
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: constantly we're asking ourselves or constantly ask ourselves as documentarians,

1090
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: does this fall within the bounds of what is generally

1091
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: perceived to be you know, acceptable limitations on what is fair,

1092
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, in documentary storytelling, and and there's no set

1093
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: of rules for that, but I think we all kind

1094
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: of inherently when we work in the genre, understand what

1095
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: those are and understand when we've crossed those boundaries. What

1096
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: was nice about this show is that I feel, almost

1097
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: without exception, that we never made those calls, even though

1098
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: they might have made more exciting shows. We we fell

1099
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: within what we thought where the boundaries, because I think

1100
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 1: that's the way we just wanted to live our life,

1101
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: was to feel that we had done something that had

1102
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: some integrity. You know. That's I mean, it's it's like

1103
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: a whole field of studies authenticity in documentary film, and yeah, absolutely,

1104
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of very They sit right

1105
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: next to the wildlife biologists who want to go in

1106
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: a document that's well, we had to read some of

1107
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: that stuff. But there's this you know, Werner Herzog, who

1108
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: has made UH both fiction and nonfiction, one of my favorite,

1109
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: one of my favorite, so he talks about in in

1110
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: documentary there's moments that he creates true film that are

1111
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: more truthful than the reality of the situation. I'm familiar

1112
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: with Deadline of thoughts. Yeah, and and and in some degree,

1113
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: you know that's but there was there was a high

1114
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: profile case. I shouldn't say high profile. There's there's a

1115
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: medium profile case where a woman was writing a memoir

1116
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: about her life and hard scrabble existence and how she

1117
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: wanted to be a writer but but didn't get any

1118
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: support from her parents. And she wrote in her book

1119
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: and presented as fact that her father caught her with

1120
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: a typewriter and ceremoniously took the typewriter out and and

1121
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: pulverized it with a sledgehammer. Turns out her old man

1122
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: bought the goddamn typewriter for her. Okay, but she, in

1123
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: her defense said, well, all things taken in his the

1124
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: way he viewed my wanting to be a writer was

1125
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: akin to had he smashed my typewriter. So to make

1126
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: that point in a way that assistant the narrative. Yeah, right,

1127
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: it's a fucking What I'm trying to say is it's

1128
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 1: like it's a and we walked it many many times.

1129
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: It's a very difficult balance. Yeah, but she was over

1130
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: the edge, pointing out she was over the people want

1131
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: to classify things is either fiction or nonfiction? Yeah, and

1132
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:19,959
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's not a helpful it's not helpful. No, no,

1133
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: I would that's what I would say. It's not helpful.

1134
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: Like our twenty two minute version show. It is an

1135
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 1: authentic version of what we experienced, but it's twenty two minutes.

1136
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: You gotta cut some stuff out. We didn't like, we

1137
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: didn't film Garrett, you know, almost dying down this mountain.

1138
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: That would have been the best part of that. Yeah,

1139
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: nights Night walked back, Like all these things just didn't

1140
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: make it because we're shooting two hundred minutes each. That

1141
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: six hundred minutes a day. Yeah footage. Yeah, can't all

1142
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: that show, They can't. So that four days, what is it?

1143
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: I shot how many? How many minutes altogether? I'd say

1144
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 1: twenty four her plus their little bonus cams here and there.

1145
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: One out of every hundred minutes. That's but a but

1146
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: a one hundred ratio is not surprising. I shot this year.

1147
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: I shot a hundred hours of footage for a forty

1148
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 1: four minutes show. Hundred hours of footage. Yeah, so we

1149
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 1: never we never know we never know when the animal

1150
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: is actually gonna be there either. So we're rolling full

1151
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: time because like like this tie, Yeah, all of a sudden,

1152
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,600
Speaker 1: it was like yeah, and this is a perfect This

1153
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: is a perfect example of cameraman knowing what shot he

1154
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 1: needs to get, director telling Okay, I need the over

1155
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 1: the shoulder shot that that mo you know made as

1156
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 1: a part of the show. I didn't make it. I

1157
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: just yeah, no, no, but recognized the value of getting

1158
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: in over the shole shoulder shot that contextualizes the whole experience.

1159
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 1: But cameraman and the guy is following is just in

1160
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: two different locations. And if he moves, you know, I

1161
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: should have moved with you when you went to that

1162
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: next location, and I just didn't. But when he was

1163
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: getting when he shot the deer, well I was initially

1164
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: I was initially lined up over your shoulder and I

1165
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: was good and I was happy and a great two shot. Perfect.

1166
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: I would have been down the barrel. And then he

1167
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: moved and I didn't go with him because I was

1168
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: scared that I was gonna get yelled at by Steve.

1169
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 1: It's all barking, it's all bark and no bite. It's

1170
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: all bark and no bite, Like, what am I really

1171
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 1: gonna do? Well, what's gonna I know I'm trusting when

1172
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm evil lying and all that and yelling, whisper yelling,

1173
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm doing When I'm whisper yelling, all I'm doing is

1174
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: I'm basically saying this. I'm saying, I know that you

1175
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: need to do your job. Do your job in the

1176
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: way the best way you can that conforms to my

1177
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 1: ideal of you laying face down in the dirt. That's

1178
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: exactly right. No, So so Eric is saying, get get

1179
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: the shot, get the shot, and I am like, I

1180
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: can't move. Yeah, But what I would say about that situation,

1181
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 1: I think you guys handled that situation perfectly. Were on

1182
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: exposed face with a deer looking at us, and there

1183
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 1: was no he wasn't looking at No, he wasn't looking

1184
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: as when I moved, I moved because I knew if

1185
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: a deer popped out, I was going to blow your

1186
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: freaking ear drum out, you know, from from where I

1187
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 1: was sitting, So I had to get in front of you.

1188
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: Um once that once we made that call, there was

1189
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 1: no one was going to move. We were on an

1190
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: exposed face, and I should have anticipated that because I

1191
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: could have moved with you. There was not a lot

1192
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: of space for you to be. But but I mean

1193
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 1: all this. All this means to say is like you

1194
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: do the I mean, with these things, you do the

1195
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: best you can with the situation you're handed, and you

1196
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: you you kind of accept what the best you know,

1197
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 1: what the best you can do is. It's nice when

1198
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:00,720
Speaker 1: you have the setup and the or thought in the

1199
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: time to be able to position yourself. And and that

1200
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: for me was like a big learning curve on this show.

1201
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: Was was positioning. When I got really good at it

1202
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: on the show, I could position to the point where

1203
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: I would reveal animals by by moving slightly around Steve,

1204
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 1: like in the case of the moose in Alberta, which

1205
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: is a beautiful reveal, and in the case of the

1206
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: have Alina in Texas, um where like I knew where

1207
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 1: the animals were going to pop out, and like I

1208
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: was behind it and I could just slightly move without

1209
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 1: spooking them and reveal something that the audience hadn't yet seen,

1210
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 1: like a moose standing in front of you. But that,

1211
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, you know it's hard to do what

1212
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: you can six people six you know, I mean, we

1213
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 1: pull it off often. That's a lot of It's The

1214
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: other thing I happened is even just like hiking up

1215
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 1: into the area we want hunt. We stopped at a

1216
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: must gag set up called Nothing. Stopped at a must

1217
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: gig set up called nothing stopped that another must gig

1218
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 1: set up called Nothing. That was before we even got

1219
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 1: to where we were going. So this time this goes

1220
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: on and on. We set up many places and wait,

1221
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: nothing happens, and you started getting there's like a fatigue

1222
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: kind of sets up, like the first time you might

1223
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: get uh, you get your rest all, I get my

1224
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 1: backpack set just how I want to be, you know,

1225
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: everything's I got my everything's set, my scope set, you know,

1226
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: and I'm ready the eleventh time, you're just kind of

1227
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna lean against this tree and blow the call.

1228
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: I'll start the rest out later. I'm not saying you

1229
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 1: got that that happens to you, but it happens to

1230
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: me to where it's a thing that makes a good hunter.

1231
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: It's always been like, but this could be the time,

1232
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: but I will I will say that. I that is

1233
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 1: something I didn't feel vulnerable to when we were when

1234
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 1: we are really doing the show. I did not feel

1235
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 1: vulnerable to fatigue or like, oh, you know, I just

1236
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,879
Speaker 1: don't want to do it. No, but but I'm guilty

1237
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: of it. And I even get to where like Corey

1238
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: will be asking me, tell me, give me the set up,

1239
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: give me the set up, I must say, Hey, we

1240
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: don't need to set up. We're gonna go up here

1241
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 1: and nothing's gonna happen, you know. I just like to know,

1242
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: like a sore throne. So I was a val ready

1243
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: to change my clothes. I was up there for us,

1244
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: But it would have been helpful. It would have been

1245
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: helpful had I explained. But it would have been helpful

1246
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 1: had I said, an hour ago, whatever the hell it was,

1247
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: we saw a deer we were watching, you know. No,

1248
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean just for not me, helpful for you, helpful

1249
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: for the show. Had I done a oh, we've now

1250
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: arrived at where we feel like a deer vanished. We're

1251
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 1: gonna blow a call and hoping you pop his head up. Well,

1252
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, I've been saying that for three days.

1253
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember having some epic fights with you

1254
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: man in the field about like, dude, just please tell

1255
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: us what's going on right now, and like day seven

1256
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: or eight or whatever on odd ad, you know when

1257
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 1: we are going up after almost like please just tell

1258
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,679
Speaker 1: me but I understand like the fatigue of just like

1259
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,719
Speaker 1: day in, day out, setting things up that then didn't

1260
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 1: pan out, that are just going to hit the editing

1261
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,680
Speaker 1: room floor absolutely not making the show. So all of

1262
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 1: your ideas, emotional energy, all the stuff you put into

1263
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: producing content. It's like wipe trying to wipe the slate

1264
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 1: clean and say like, I'm sorry, man, I know you

1265
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 1: worked really hard on that, but it's a complete waste.

1266
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: Now now you have to reset it up, you have

1267
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: to redo it again. And after a while, man, that's

1268
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 1: just so draining. Dude, it's hard to make. It's hard

1269
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: to do that over and over again. And I started

1270
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: to feel embarrassed. Yeah, you started to get like because

1271
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: you're talking to the camera, but you're in a way

1272
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: you're talking to the guy holding the camera. Definitely, that's

1273
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: a whole another thing we should talk about. But you know,

1274
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: it's like you're just like in this trip, like, Okay,

1275
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 1: what's going on? You feel like, dude, I've been telling you.

1276
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: I mean, do you really want me to tell you

1277
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: this again? There might be over there. This is this

1278
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:30,720
Speaker 1: is an interesting thing because the relationship between the in

1279
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: specifically in this usually it's a relationship between the director

1280
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: and the and the subject um. But in this it

1281
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: really is a relationship between the camera operator, the director

1282
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: of photography in the subject because you guys got the

1283
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 1: point of contact. It can't you know, a director, we

1284
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: just in this in this context, you really don't need

1285
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: another person walking out into the field of view of

1286
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: all these animals, you know. So the camera operator directs

1287
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 1: a lot of that interaction and that relationship. And it's

1288
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:08,839
Speaker 1: a hard position to be in because you're asking really

1289
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 1: really obvious questions that you know, but that you know

1290
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: that the audience needs to know. So you're like, I'd

1291
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 1: be often asking you things that you're like, dude, you know,

1292
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: you know that, and be like, yeah, dude, I know,

1293
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: I know that, but I just need you to say it,

1294
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, and um, And there's a lot of like

1295
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of trust and stuff involved in that.

1296
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like development of of relationship involved

1297
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 1: in that, you know. That's the thing I found is, uh,

1298
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 1: there's the benefits of working with people you had camera

1299
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: operators you haven't worked with, and there's a benefit of

1300
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 1: the ones you have worked at the ones you have

1301
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 1: worked with. Is what'll be going through the woods and

1302
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 1: I'll see something. If it's a guy I don't know

1303
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 1: or don't know, well, I'm always herron being like well

1304
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: turning to him meaning turned into the camera. I mean like, hey,

1305
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: check this out. So what happens is you know, I'm

1306
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 1: all excited to like introduce him to this new subject.

1307
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: I'd be like, you see this, you know, do you

1308
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 1: do that? And youll go do this and you know

1309
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: you see where bear he'll and then later when you

1310
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 1: it's like then later when you're with someone you had

1311
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: many experiences with you kind of yeah, they already know

1312
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: all that. Anyways, it was the advantage of the person,

1313
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: you know, is you get a real eye contact thing

1314
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 1: where I'll be like we're sitting there for hours, I'll

1315
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: have something else that I want to say and just

1316
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:41,679
Speaker 1: you know, like turn or raise my finger and we're

1317
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 1: doing it and in it or like you know, I'm

1318
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,600
Speaker 1: kind of like just little signals. I'm making signals as

1319
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: so you can see my hands. Listen to a podcast,

1320
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 1: but a little signal says a lot. Like a little

1321
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:54,799
Speaker 1: signal says like no, I mean, seriously, there's something standing

1322
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: right here. This is this Like the way I'm waving

1323
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 1: my hand right now, we both know means like this

1324
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: thing is extremely close and there's a shorthand that develops.

1325
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:11,320
Speaker 1: It's helpful for it's helpful for actually hunting, but it's

1326
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 1: not helpful for no doing the story. It's helpful for

1327
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,560
Speaker 1: functionality and what you like, ultimately hope is that you

1328
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,559
Speaker 1: kind of have both of those. And that's a big

1329
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:24,960
Speaker 1: part of like, you know, a big part of directing

1330
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff is learning how to establish a

1331
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 1: relationship but not contaminate the subject right and and how

1332
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 1: to continually pump the subject. We're like, I've I have

1333
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: found that in in like documentary directing and a lot

1334
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 1: of documentary directing, the most powerful weapon that I have

1335
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,160
Speaker 1: as a director to try to move the story forward,

1336
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 1: to try to help the host progress the story, divulge information.

1337
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: Stuff like that is is a smile. It's the weirdest thing.

1338
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:08,480
Speaker 1: It's not talking, it's a facial expression of of interest.

1339
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 1: So a lot of times when I'm working, like like,

1340
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 1: I'll work with chefs on these long projects. I just

1341
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,600
Speaker 1: finished one. It was seven months of working with a

1342
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: chef that I didn't particularly get along with um, but

1343
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 1: I spent more of less of my time talking to

1344
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 1: him and more of my time smiling and nodding and

1345
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 1: being very interested in what he was saying. UM, with

1346
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 1: a couple of little questions here and there, kind of

1347
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: pulling him along. It's it's an interesting thing. It's a

1348
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 1: it's it becomes emotionally draining. Um and it's hard to do.

1349
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: It's harder than you would think it would be to do.

1350
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:57,520
Speaker 1: But that that kind of interaction and like freshness of

1351
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 1: of inter pressed you know, on my part, really can

1352
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,560
Speaker 1: help pull that information out. And no, I and I

1353
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: would just say watching both Mo and Eric just during

1354
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 1: this whole shoot, I worked with some directors that just

1355
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:22,639
Speaker 1: are constantly exerting their own ego on the situation. Yeah,

1356
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 1: that's a big mistake. And and it's and I've worked

1357
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: with these you know, guys who have been in the

1358
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: industry for a long time, and that's what they do.

1359
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: They just are constantly basically like trying to get the

1360
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: host to basically say what they want to say, like

1361
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:39,799
Speaker 1: in this very forceful kind of and it is terrible.

1362
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 1: I mean there there are times you know, to kind

1363
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:49,440
Speaker 1: of jump in and try to directing certain ways, but basically, uh,

1364
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 1: to be hands off in a way and like you,

1365
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: subtlety is man way more skillful and leads to such

1366
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: a better product than Uh. It definitely does. And what

1367
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: I like what I do when I go into a

1368
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 1: situation less with Steve, because Steve and I like always

1369
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: had a real natural sympathico and in working together, but

1370
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 1: in working with people that I have more difficulty with. UM,

1371
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 1: I will go I'll go into a scene with like

1372
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: two or three things that I do want the host

1373
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 1: to say, um, But ninety five percent of what I'm

1374
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: getting them to deliver their own ideas, things you want

1375
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: them to say, or like things you want them to convey, concepts,

1376
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,560
Speaker 1: concepts that I want them to convey, not not specific

1377
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,719
Speaker 1: dialogue UM, because I don't care how it comes out.

1378
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: I just but ideas that I know are important to

1379
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 1: the story arc we're trying to tell. Most of what

1380
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: I'll spend my time doing is again it's smiling and

1381
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 1: nodding and encouraging them to feel empowered to divulge their

1382
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 1: information and their ideas and to feel like their I

1383
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,200
Speaker 1: is are valid, you know, and to feel like they

1384
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 1: have a voice and are empowered. You know, that's super important.

1385
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 1: And when you when a host feels confident. When you know,

1386
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 1: when a host feels like they're doing a good job

1387
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 1: and in control like that, the camera reads that. I mean,

1388
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:22,760
Speaker 1: that makes a good host. That's someone the audience can

1389
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:24,679
Speaker 1: look at and be like, well, this is someone who

1390
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 1: clearly feels comfortable in their environment, comfortable in the information

1391
01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 1: they're divulging, you know. And then every once in a while,

1392
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:35,719
Speaker 1: Pepper in like, uh, hey, remember when we talked about this,

1393
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, and and what you're constantly trying to do

1394
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:44,599
Speaker 1: is again like empower the host. Remember when you said this,

1395
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,679
Speaker 1: Remember when we talked about this, Remember when you had

1396
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: that idea of this, Remember when you know those kinds

1397
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: of things. Again it the host has a feeling then

1398
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 1: that they're coming up with a natural, organic idea. A

1399
01:22:58,040 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 1: lot of times they are, by the way, because it's

1400
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: all inormation that I got in in preproduction interviews, you know,

1401
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 1: um and stuff like that. It's just that I know

1402
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: that right now is the time to say that, and

1403
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: you need delivered in a usable way at a usable time.

1404
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 1: But I want it not just delivered in a usable

1405
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: way in like a sound bite. I want it delivered

1406
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 1: in a confident way where the host feels comfortable and organic,

1407
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,719
Speaker 1: and those again when you talk about like the human

1408
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: bullshit meter, when people are watching TV and they see

1409
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 1: someone that's empowered and feels like they really understand the

1410
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: the you know the context, and feel good about what

1411
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: they're delivering. People People buy that, man, People buy it. MO.

1412
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:43,759
Speaker 1: Did you feel I mean, you were on camera this episode,

1413
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 1: did you feel that feeling that hosts probably feel often

1414
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: about am I saying the right thing? Or am I

1415
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: coming across across and like the right way? Like if

1416
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,759
Speaker 1: there's a funny yeah, sensitivity or ego that that comes

1417
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 1: with being on camera. That's different from being behind the

1418
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: camera where you do think like, oh I just said

1419
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of ship. Doesn't like am I saying the rights?

1420
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 1: Like is this good ship? Because it's not that you're

1421
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 1: making it up, but you're you're you know, you're on camera.

1422
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 1: It's not like it's yeah, it's a it's a performative thing.

1423
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 1: And you want to be like coming across in a

1424
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 1: good way and not like a douchey way or whatever.

1425
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: You know you want to you don't you want to

1426
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 1: not be failing or you don't care yeah, because you'll

1427
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: have conversations all the time, and we did too. Where

1428
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 1: were you almost say like, hey, what's the with this

1429
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 1: or do you remember that time? And He'll be like,

1430
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:46,280
Speaker 1: oh no, no, never mind, because I'm gonna take my

1431
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 1: authentic question, my authentic recollection, save it, save it, and

1432
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,760
Speaker 1: keep its authenticity, but then wedge it in where I

1433
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 1: needed to live right. So it's like the impetus to

1434
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: say it is perfectly natural, it's something you're really honestly

1435
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:07,679
Speaker 1: curious about. But I'm gonna have to suspend the gratis,

1436
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, the gratification of getting my answer in order

1437
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 1: to get my answer at the time that becomes usable

1438
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 1: for the production. So it's it's like bullshit, but not

1439
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: at all bullshit. It's just like a reshuffling. It's like

1440
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 1: a reshuffling of reality. And I can say that there's

1441
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 1: nothing I mean, there's nothing I said up here in

1442
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 1: in the context of the show that I don't, like

1443
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 1: one believe in my heart or aren't my feelings about

1444
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 1: this whole you know, greater subject. None of it was

1445
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: made up. And I didn't sit down like on the

1446
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 1: plane ride up here and like articulate the points that

1447
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: I thought would make me look cool. Or whatever, you know,

1448
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: but there definitely was a lot like a lot of

1449
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: moments going along or I was like, yeah, I shouldn't

1450
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 1: ask that question right now, you know, or I shouldn't

1451
01:25:56,200 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 1: say that right now. Like I know, you know that

1452
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna end with a meal scene, right, Like those

1453
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 1: are thoughts that you want to say for that meal scene,

1454
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: because like, you know, I want a nice, impactful ending

1455
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:13,560
Speaker 1: that has emotional quality and like that people can that

1456
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: kind of buttons the idea up and you know, and

1457
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:20,759
Speaker 1: I know that like when we're starting out, I wanna,

1458
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, set up a couple of basic principles that

1459
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:26,640
Speaker 1: are gonna you know, guide us through or set us

1460
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 1: on the right trajectory to kind of tell this story.

1461
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:32,320
Speaker 1: You know, if I have something I'm very passionate about

1462
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 1: an observation, did I that I'm wed to out go

1463
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: against my own instincts and and stick it in multiple places? Yeah,

1464
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to like I'm hedging my back. I'm

1465
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 1: trying to make sure. So I'm like I'll say some

1466
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 1: point and then it's almost painful to me, but I'll

1467
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,000
Speaker 1: do it, like I'm gonna do my point again. Then

1468
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my point again later and it's gonna

1469
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:00,599
Speaker 1: be the only thing I do that meantime. I'm I'm

1470
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 1: sort of like by I'm sort of pushing this idea,

1471
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: that this idea has to be there, and you have

1472
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: a variety of ways to use it. But I know,

1473
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 1: but I mean, as we go through these hunts, you're

1474
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,760
Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of different ways that the

1475
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 1: hunt can play out. When we were up there, like,

1476
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, you'll deliver some idea and and we still

1477
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 1: haven't completed a successful hunt. And it could be that

1478
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:28,840
Speaker 1: we don't end up with a successful hunt, and at

1479
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 1: that moment that you deliver that idea is the most

1480
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 1: exciting moment in the show, you know. Um, But it

1481
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:37,599
Speaker 1: also could be that that we then run into a

1482
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,679
Speaker 1: lot of exciting stuff, a lot of things that happen

1483
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 1: after that that you're like, Okay, well, I I know

1484
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: that stuff before is getting cut out. So if I

1485
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 1: want to get this idea across, I gotta interject it.

1486
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 1: Because from an editorial standpoint and from a standpoint of

1487
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: telling a show that's like coherent in the language of television,

1488
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 1: they gave the cant that to some some moment in

1489
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: some place that we've never even seen in the show.

1490
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 1: We didn't establish where you're saying something awesome but makes

1491
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 1: absolutely no sense, you know, because they're like, wait a second,

1492
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: how the hell did he get there? And where did

1493
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 1: that jacket come from? You know it it has to

1494
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 1: be that. I mean, there are rules to this. It's

1495
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:25,680
Speaker 1: there are rules to how a show unfolds. If we

1496
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:29,519
Speaker 1: could just make a quilt, you know, like approach the

1497
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: show like a patchwork quilt and just plug a bunch

1498
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,960
Speaker 1: of stuff in from a bunch of different places and whatever,

1499
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 1: we could make a you know, choose your own adventure,

1500
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: a very articulate story that you could you could write

1501
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,479
Speaker 1: down on paper word for word and read it and

1502
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: be like, wow, that is just a brilliantly told story.

1503
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 1: But the visuals on screen would make absolutely no sense.

1504
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 1: It would be like a bad acid trip. That was

1505
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: a really clear decision from the very very beginning that

1506
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 1: we were not gonna use interviews, and when you don't,

1507
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:06,719
Speaker 1: when you use interviews, you by default, de fact though

1508
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 1: you do not have a cinematic show. It it's no bullshit. Yeah,

1509
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 1: I see, I touched the void? What's that? Touching the

1510
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: void seems really based on interviews, recreations, no footage of

1511
01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 1: the actual event, amazing films. I need to think about

1512
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 1: that for a second. But I need to think about

1513
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 1: it because it's it's and and by the way, like

1514
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 1: like I give you tons of props for that poll

1515
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:43,759
Speaker 1: that fast. We're just talking because you definitely you definitely

1516
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 1: stumped me on that one. But but I would agree

1517
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: with you in general terms. You you break, you break

1518
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 1: the momentum of a cinematic story when you cut to

1519
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: an interview. An interview gets you out of it again.

1520
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:01,560
Speaker 1: You know, people are brilliant animals and and they understand

1521
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 1: at some level that you're now going into some contrived,

1522
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: controlled environment with a controlled scenario, which is this guy

1523
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 1: delivering a line of dialogue that perfectly ties everything together

1524
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 1: there needs to be. And where did that come from?

1525
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 1: Where did do in shows like that come from? What

1526
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:21,920
Speaker 1: the interview? Who invented that? No, like where you have

1527
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: people doing little interactions but then they're commenting on their

1528
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:30,599
Speaker 1: own interact and us that it's efficient. Well, what news

1529
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:35,559
Speaker 1: magazine shows before reality TV were very manipulative and how

1530
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:40,759
Speaker 1: they people answer questions they would ask, they would phrase

1531
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:42,920
Speaker 1: questions the way that basically and then and cut the

1532
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 1: interviews in a way that that made them say certain things.

1533
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:49,559
Speaker 1: And I think it it went from that, uh into

1534
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 1: certain forms of reality TV where they really constructed these interviews,

1535
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 1: and then I think it was just a natural progression.

1536
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's a smart assessment. I'm

1537
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: gonna come back to Touching a Void the Void for

1538
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:06,559
Speaker 1: a second. If you could have told that story in

1539
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:10,080
Speaker 1: a purely verite sense, you would have. But there were

1540
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 1: one story, Touching the Void, Touching the Void, but there

1541
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:15,600
Speaker 1: were no cameras, so they had to go to a

1542
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 1: recreation basis. So I don't just for just for out

1543
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:25,560
Speaker 1: of sympathy for the viewers listeners. Touching the Void was

1544
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 1: about a mountaineering accident, a mountaineering disaster. Um. It was

1545
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:36,080
Speaker 1: not being filmed when it happened. What mountain range, It's

1546
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:42,599
Speaker 1: Cordia Blanca. Cordia Blanca range. Yeah, Prue is that Prue?

1547
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: And so the two people it involved a fellow who

1548
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:50,880
Speaker 1: had to cut his climbing partner lose, not knowing, couldn't

1549
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 1: see his climbing partner, didn't know if he's dead or live.

1550
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,519
Speaker 1: He's hanging on a rope below him, and and and

1551
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 1: cuts the rope. And the only way to tell the

1552
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:05,320
Speaker 1: story is these two men are interviewed right exhaustibly, and

1553
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 1: there's some very artful recreations that never make you feel

1554
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 1: like you're actually watching it happen. You're very aware that

1555
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 1: it's so let me, let me and it wasn't like

1556
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 1: the old History Channel style recreation where everything gets kind

1557
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: of hazy. Let me let me continue on here because

1558
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 1: I do this. That was an important point in like

1559
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 1: a good you know, a good example. Um, it is

1560
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:29,280
Speaker 1: a documentary in the technical sense. You can't deny that

1561
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 1: it's a documentary, but it is not verite and uh

1562
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 1: and in verite for the audience too, is is like

1563
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:38,719
Speaker 1: a fancy term for real ship half French, the French

1564
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:45,639
Speaker 1: figured it out chronicle and and you know, and so

1565
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 1: what we're doing in these shows is really verite. And

1566
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 1: and so that's that to me, is where the difference is.

1567
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:59,760
Speaker 1: When you're inter cutting interviews into recreations that are obviously

1568
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,840
Speaker 1: nderstood by the audience to be recreations. That's one thing.

1569
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 1: And it's a beautiful documentary. It's a brilliantly told story,

1570
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 1: probably to fiction filmmaking. And the guy was it is

1571
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: closer to fiction filmmaking when you're cutting interviews into verite

1572
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 1: what is supposed to be reality. That to me is

1573
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 1: when you're breaking it. The real the real gift, the

1574
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 1: real skill of of ZPs, of the company we work for,

1575
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 1: is that we over time have learned how to make

1576
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 1: cinematic verite, how to make um choices in in framing

1577
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 1: and cinematography, in music and you know, I would say,

1578
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:51,200
Speaker 1: maybe not most importantly, but very up there, very excellent,

1579
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: excellent writing. What we what we do is we take

1580
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:58,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of of ideas that come from feature filmmaking,

1581
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:05,759
Speaker 1: from cinematic you know, produced feature film or narrative television making,

1582
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 1: and we apply them to verite format. And and you

1583
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 1: know that is that, to me is what has been

1584
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 1: successful with the The second you cut to an interview,

1585
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:23,719
Speaker 1: a talking head interview, out of that, you break that momentum.

1586
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 1: And I guess that's what I meant for for clarification

1587
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:29,759
Speaker 1: on on what I was saying before, is you can't

1588
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 1: in this kind of show, you can't do that. To me,

1589
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 1: you can't do that. Along those lines, in terms of

1590
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 1: talking about verity, a lot of that, you know, circles

1591
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:42,000
Speaker 1: back to acceptance, and we were talking about this scenario

1592
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 1: where you were caught out and you couldn't get behind

1593
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 1: Mo for you guys, you know, Mo and Steve. It's

1594
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:51,680
Speaker 1: something you guys talked about earlier. But that transition and

1595
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 1: that struggle of accepting a non successful hunt, you know,

1596
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: which was the reality of the scenario, which doesn't necessarily

1597
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:03,479
Speaker 1: equate to you know, the button that you want to

1598
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 1: put on a television show or a film. What was

1599
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 1: that transition like did you feel you know a lot

1600
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: of anxiety around a possible non successful hunt, I mean,

1601
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 1: where you know, was it a mutual anxiety? Like how

1602
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:20,000
Speaker 1: did you guys overcome that? Because, frankly, from watching the

1603
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 1: progress some of them are most successful, some of I

1604
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:25,720
Speaker 1: mean some most entertaining shows that I've watched, the ones

1605
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 1: that you haven't know, I thought you couldn't do it.

1606
01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 1: I thought you had to just throw it all in

1607
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 1: the garbage. No, I think that was a big I mean,

1608
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:36,120
Speaker 1: that was a big leap of faith early on to

1609
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: to haven't. So, first of all, I think the first

1610
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:42,080
Speaker 1: of my do you because I argued against it? What

1611
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:45,360
Speaker 1: was your arguing just have to scrap it? Scrap it?

1612
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:48,040
Speaker 1: New EPI shouldn't know something. Yeah, and we I got.

1613
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: We got an email one time a guy saying I've

1614
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: had a lot of failure in my life. I do

1615
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:58,120
Speaker 1: not need to go and see you go out and fail. Wow,

1616
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,519
Speaker 1: I don't want it always made me feel bad. I

1617
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to go to dinner with that guy.

1618
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:05,960
Speaker 1: I actually do feel bad for that guy as well, man,

1619
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 1: because I think he's missing the greater point. But but

1620
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: generally was it was well received, But I was that

1621
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:15,920
Speaker 1: we it was the fourth was the fourth one we did.

1622
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:19,559
Speaker 1: I argued that it's like, there's just no way it sucks. Yes,

1623
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:22,200
Speaker 1: we'll figure something out. We'll go to my mom's and

1624
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:25,280
Speaker 1: hunt squirrels in her yard. Like it was a great show.

1625
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:27,599
Speaker 1: There's like a way that we don't have to use

1626
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 1: this because you can't have a hunting show where someone

1627
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 1: doesn't get something. Yeah, but you know what happened in

1628
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: that show? What was the reason? The reason it was

1629
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: the goat hunt? Um in Uh, what are you saying

1630
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:44,559
Speaker 1: you didn't have any anxiety or concern about this? Of

1631
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:48,960
Speaker 1: course I did from human being, you know it, But

1632
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,240
Speaker 1: I don't remember being I don't maybe being worried about it. No,

1633
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:54,760
Speaker 1: I was. I was confident in it. Well, no, I

1634
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 1: was a little worried about it, but I was. I

1635
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: was confident that we had made a good show. But

1636
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: what what happened? And what what I the reason that

1637
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:04,120
Speaker 1: I argued for it and then I thought it would

1638
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:07,040
Speaker 1: be successful? Is it? What what happened is all of

1639
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: a sudden, by by not coming home with a goat

1640
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 1: on that show, the the subject matter of the show changed.

1641
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:20,160
Speaker 1: It no longer was a show about a goat hunt.

1642
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:23,080
Speaker 1: The goat hunt was the structure for the show. But

1643
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 1: what the show was about was you and your brother

1644
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:30,559
Speaker 1: and your writing in the way that you handled the writing,

1645
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:34,479
Speaker 1: especially of the end of the last act and how

1646
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:39,759
Speaker 1: that played out, made it a show about spending time

1647
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 1: with with Danny and how important that was. And it

1648
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 1: was an AHA moment because it was like, all of

1649
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:50,280
Speaker 1: a sudden, it was like, wait a second, guys, there's

1650
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:53,760
Speaker 1: a whole world here of stuff that we haven't explored.

1651
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:58,519
Speaker 1: It's not just about hunting, you know, It's about life

1652
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 1: and philosophy and like in the you know, the relationships

1653
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:05,479
Speaker 1: you have in the way that you experience the world,

1654
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:09,679
Speaker 1: like any of these subject matters, any of these things

1655
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:13,799
Speaker 1: can be can be the driving force of the story

1656
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:17,920
Speaker 1: or the conclusion to a story. We go out and hunt,

1657
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:21,679
Speaker 1: you know, we're successful, we're not successful. Whatever. But there's

1658
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 1: a huge takeaway from the audience in hearing about why

1659
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 1: it's important to go out and like spend time with

1660
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:31,559
Speaker 1: your brother and have that kind of connection and that

1661
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 1: kind of bond and to be able to make a uh,

1662
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 1: smart and accurate judgment call in the moment and be

1663
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 1: like it's a nanny and a moral judgment um which

1664
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 1: some people may agree with or may not agree with.

1665
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:50,679
Speaker 1: And I'm not casting judgment on where people would fall

1666
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 1: on it, but to say like, well, technically I'm legally

1667
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:58,560
Speaker 1: allowed to shoot it, nanny, but you really shouldn't and

1668
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:02,600
Speaker 1: and I don't want to and encouraged not to and

1669
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:05,760
Speaker 1: encourage encouraged not to by vision game, but allowed to

1670
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: do it right exactly and and and I think that

1671
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 1: a lot of things on that episodes. For me, it's

1672
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,240
Speaker 1: a real benchmark episode because a lot of those things

1673
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:17,120
Speaker 1: came together in like it really was like a light

1674
01:39:17,160 --> 01:39:19,639
Speaker 1: bulb coming on. It was like, wait a second, the guys,

1675
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 1: there's a whole another world here. We don't need to

1676
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 1: feel the tremendous pressure that we've been feeling to go

1677
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,639
Speaker 1: out and have these successful hunts, Like we can now

1678
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:33,920
Speaker 1: tell more nuanced, in and articulate stories about the human

1679
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 1: experience and they don't have to be predicated on a

1680
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:42,040
Speaker 1: kill shot at the end, you know, um not to

1681
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:44,360
Speaker 1: not to say there's anything wrong with that, that's I mean,

1682
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 1: it's great, you know, but we told a lot of

1683
01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:51,200
Speaker 1: great shows, you know, a lot of great stories after

1684
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:54,240
Speaker 1: that that we're about a varying degree, you know, a

1685
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:56,960
Speaker 1: varying amount of subject matters that didn't have to do

1686
01:39:57,040 --> 01:40:00,559
Speaker 1: with necessarily killing an animal, And to me, that's what's

1687
01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: given the show integrity and in legs. Over time, we've

1688
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 1: got a lot of stuff we can fall back on,

1689
01:40:06,479 --> 01:40:08,840
Speaker 1: a lot of stories we can tell, and a lot

1690
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 1: more we can tell in the future, you know, dirt

1691
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:20,160
Speaker 1: myth authenticity is its including concluding I got to actually

1692
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: I thought of this. Can you also talk about where

1693
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: you're at with chewing tobacco right now? I mean, just

1694
01:40:25,240 --> 01:40:28,000
Speaker 1: like because you quit for you quit for a while,

1695
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 1: then in the car the other day, I quit, Yeah,

1696
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:34,880
Speaker 1: baby steps, Yeah, I'm I'm I'm being supported by my

1697
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:38,800
Speaker 1: friends and co workers on quitting a horrible addiction. But

1698
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:43,679
Speaker 1: my concluding thoughts, no, no, one momentute. Do you see

1699
01:40:43,720 --> 01:40:48,040
Speaker 1: yourself chewing in a year? No, I'm gonna get yourself

1700
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:51,679
Speaker 1: chewing in one month. I'm gonna quit tomorrow. No, no,

1701
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 1: don't bullshit. No, I'm gonna say. That's what I always think.

1702
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:57,600
Speaker 1: And Okay, like, you don't see yourself chewning in a year? No?

1703
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:00,519
Speaker 1: Do you see yourself chewing in a month? Yeah? You

1704
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:05,639
Speaker 1: see yourself chewing? Oh, in six months probably? Yeah, Okay,

1705
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: just trying to get a sense of just see yourself

1706
01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 1: chewing in eleven months, in twenty nine days, probably a lot.

1707
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:15,560
Speaker 1: And then I'm quitting. Okay from so this is like

1708
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 1: a benchmark moment, like to write down history is being made.

1709
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:24,559
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're concluding thoughts out, Um, sorry, I don't

1710
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:26,679
Speaker 1: want to see the developed a hole in your life.

1711
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:29,680
Speaker 1: I know. No, I appreciate that too. It comes it

1712
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 1: comes with love. But the yeah, the concluding thoughts, I

1713
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 1: think that the really cool thing I've been witnessed too.

1714
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 1: And this is my fifteenth so I'm new, but I'm

1715
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:48,040
Speaker 1: also episodes. Yeah you meat eater? Yeah, an, so you're

1716
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:50,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know how many there are total, A lot,

1717
01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:53,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot. There's like, yeah, we're talking about it.

1718
01:41:53,640 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 1: How many, Well home, it's it's over eight. Okay. But

1719
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:02,200
Speaker 1: something that something that I've seen and that was spoken

1720
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:06,600
Speaker 1: about tonight that's really cool is the crew has to

1721
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:11,360
Speaker 1: be authentic to basically make it. Yes, And with that

1722
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:16,120
Speaker 1: being said, that makes all that we're talking about possible.

1723
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:20,080
Speaker 1: Is it's all people who are willing to put that

1724
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:25,040
Speaker 1: effort in to get the authenticity. Yeah. People, it's gotta

1725
01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 1: be people who enjoy it. Yeah, that's the one thing

1726
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:29,040
Speaker 1: when we're talking about like issues like that in wise,

1727
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 1: like does he like run around on the woods? Yeah exactly, Yeah, Yeah,

1728
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:39,639
Speaker 1: that will be helpful. That's gonna And you know what's

1729
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:43,760
Speaker 1: great is how many non Hunters are sitting here right now,

1730
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 1: like and the that's because of the ethos of the

1731
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:53,640
Speaker 1: show man so that you know the development of the

1732
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:57,479
Speaker 1: show and Steve who Steve is and just one die

1733
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:01,480
Speaker 1: hard hunter. We has got a gimpy kneed now so yeah. Yeah.

1734
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:06,320
Speaker 1: Second second concluding top was if you died ABC, If

1735
01:43:06,320 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 1: I actually died right now, airway breathing circulation. I check

1736
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 1: all that ship before before before doing the podcast and

1737
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:17,639
Speaker 1: then continue the podcast and it's still flatline that hit

1738
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 1: the spot, and yeah, we'd continue rolling. But that's my

1739
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:25,599
Speaker 1: that's my concluding thoughts like that, that's yeah, No, it's

1740
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:27,800
Speaker 1: great to work with Mo and like, you know, kind

1741
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:30,920
Speaker 1: of he's like the founder of the show on the

1742
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:34,599
Speaker 1: cinematic end of things, and you know, listening to him

1743
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:39,360
Speaker 1: tonight and like learning some some true wisdom coming from

1744
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,240
Speaker 1: a person who like kind of developed the show or

1745
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 1: helped develop the show. And then like you know, a

1746
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:47,559
Speaker 1: second thought is, um, why we kind of all got

1747
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: into working in this adventure filmmaking? Adventure television is like

1748
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's like anything you struggle, It's like life

1749
01:43:56,320 --> 01:44:01,439
Speaker 1: if you struggle, struggle, struggle to obtain this main goal,

1750
01:44:01,640 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 1: which maybe is like the main goal is to create

1751
01:44:03,960 --> 01:44:08,160
Speaker 1: a great, our best television show we can whether that's

1752
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 1: me you know, along the way carrying Hunter pomp packs

1753
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,799
Speaker 1: up the steepest stuff you can imagine, like almost falling

1754
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:18,920
Speaker 1: face first multiple times, or like stressing about your shop

1755
01:44:19,040 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 1: placement or as a cameraman or like where you need

1756
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,559
Speaker 1: to be and like in the end it all works

1757
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 1: out and like having you know, building camaraderie within this

1758
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 1: one week with everyone with the same goal in mind.

1759
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:33,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's kind of fulfilling for sure.

1760
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:39,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, I know, another great pele w show po

1761
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:47,200
Speaker 1: dubs dubs where stories are made and rain a little

1762
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:50,680
Speaker 1: bit rain. The other thing that I think people need

1763
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: to know, Oh man, alright, does the system do it?

1764
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:59,599
Speaker 1: I like to giving turns up? Was what was closing thoughts? Uh? Oh?

1765
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:03,800
Speaker 1: Not's hip? Your skipping your turn you jumping the gun,

1766
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:09,160
Speaker 1: jumping the gun high hold. I'm definitely that guy. For me,

1767
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's really nice to come out here

1768
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:15,280
Speaker 1: and see like um that shows in like such good hands.

1769
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:17,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys, I think do like a tremendous

1770
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 1: job man um. And I know how I'm one of

1771
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:24,519
Speaker 1: the few people that knows how hard this job is,

1772
01:45:25,160 --> 01:45:29,080
Speaker 1: um And it is very difficult, you know, to shoot

1773
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 1: this show. Uh, And I think you guys do a

1774
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:35,720
Speaker 1: great job. And the other thing is just the satisfaction of,

1775
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, of being here six years later and still

1776
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:44,560
Speaker 1: having a successful show up and running with no signs

1777
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:47,920
Speaker 1: of of weakening, you know. I mean that is a

1778
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 1: very rare thing in television to be a part of

1779
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:56,360
Speaker 1: something at the beginning and see it be successful and

1780
01:45:56,479 --> 01:46:02,000
Speaker 1: maintain its integrity throughout a lifespan. Eight shows is no

1781
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 1: joke by any you know, strategy the imagination. There's no

1782
01:46:05,439 --> 01:46:07,280
Speaker 1: reason to think that it won't be a hundred and

1783
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:11,439
Speaker 1: a hundred plus in Um, those are real rarities in

1784
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 1: what we do. You know, most of the time you're

1785
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:18,760
Speaker 1: working on a show that gets canceled after the first season. Uh.

1786
01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:21,400
Speaker 1: Most of the time you're you're working on some show

1787
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 1: that's a pitch that never sees the light of day.

1788
01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:28,720
Speaker 1: There's hundreds of them, you know. Um. I've had the

1789
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:34,400
Speaker 1: benefit of of working on a couple with legs that

1790
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 1: really that really run and run. And for me, this one,

1791
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:42,880
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, has been the most important

1792
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:47,840
Speaker 1: and the most fulfilling over time, um, and has done

1793
01:46:47,880 --> 01:46:52,800
Speaker 1: more to shape who I am uh today uh in

1794
01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:56,559
Speaker 1: my belief system than than any other. So it's been

1795
01:46:56,600 --> 01:47:03,639
Speaker 1: a tremendous gift. Tremendous gift. Yeah. So I can't really

1796
01:47:03,680 --> 01:47:09,760
Speaker 1: follow that. I don't whatever I'm gonna say. Yeah, but

1797
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:13,800
Speaker 1: all about how when they're watching a wildlife watching the

1798
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:17,080
Speaker 1: wildlife sequence, how what they don't realize is there's a

1799
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:20,920
Speaker 1: hundred people standing there filming the same thing. There's yeah,

1800
01:47:20,960 --> 01:47:23,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot of wow. I'm not gonna talk about

1801
01:47:23,080 --> 01:47:26,320
Speaker 1: that either, but what I am gonna say is this,

1802
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:29,960
Speaker 1: this is a very physical job. And I'm always like,

1803
01:47:30,120 --> 01:47:34,599
Speaker 1: I think of myself as somebody that's uh, you know,

1804
01:47:34,680 --> 01:47:37,439
Speaker 1: like in some ways exceptionally fit to be able to

1805
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:40,559
Speaker 1: like your right along where you gonna say, you're not, no, no,

1806
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:46,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm fine. But everybody else carrying like I'm just

1807
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 1: impressed with the crew that's on the show. Everybody, how

1808
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:55,240
Speaker 1: one how much ship they're carrying. You know, I had

1809
01:47:55,320 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 1: all my dive weights in my pack exactly know, and

1810
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:04,960
Speaker 1: it's crazy there, but I didn't even notice. You know.

1811
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:07,719
Speaker 1: It's it's like a club of some sense that you're

1812
01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:10,519
Speaker 1: a part of. It's to film a show like this.

1813
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:15,599
Speaker 1: Rogan called it a tribe, and you're just you're, yes,

1814
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,880
Speaker 1: when people go hiking, everybody's tired hiking. But when you're

1815
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:24,120
Speaker 1: hiking with extra film stuff and then you're running ahead

1816
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:28,240
Speaker 1: and like doing we just weird things that you would

1817
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 1: never do as a normal person. And I like to think, Okay,

1818
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:35,320
Speaker 1: I am somebody that can do this weird thing. But

1819
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 1: then you see like five other six other people doing

1820
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:40,599
Speaker 1: this and you're like, what the hell, there's there's other

1821
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:44,840
Speaker 1: people that are also this and it's a it's a

1822
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:50,880
Speaker 1: really strange set of folks that enjoy this type of activity.

1823
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 1: And I like that. There's the folks that have worked

1824
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:57,920
Speaker 1: on meat eat or have gone on to do other,

1825
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, bigger, better things, or but they look at

1826
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:07,280
Speaker 1: meat eaters a place where that is very, I don't know,

1827
01:49:07,400 --> 01:49:11,759
Speaker 1: very fulfilling. And I think everybody wants when they work,

1828
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:16,520
Speaker 1: to do something that's fulfilling. And it's cool to to

1829
01:49:16,520 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 1: to be a part of a group that is fulfilled

1830
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:21,360
Speaker 1: by working on a show, because there's a lot of

1831
01:49:21,360 --> 01:49:25,000
Speaker 1: TV that is the opposite of this. But you work

1832
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:27,880
Speaker 1: on something, you feel good about it and uh, and

1833
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:31,280
Speaker 1: hopefully people enjoy it and even later when they become traders,

1834
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:40,080
Speaker 1: they still look bad. Bade Eric Um just Biggie backing

1835
01:49:40,120 --> 01:49:43,519
Speaker 1: off of everyone's points. I think, Um, it's uh, it

1836
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:45,680
Speaker 1: is a bit of a tribe. I think. You know,

1837
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:49,200
Speaker 1: if when you meet someone, um that has worked on

1838
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 1: this show, um and inherently a part of that process,

1839
01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:56,160
Speaker 1: you know, struggled through probably some intense weather conditions and

1840
01:49:56,240 --> 01:50:00,720
Speaker 1: some long, long days and uh and long it's you

1841
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:03,160
Speaker 1: immediately feel bonded with that person. And I think you

1842
01:50:03,160 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: guys are talking about it earlier. Um it's it kind

1843
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:10,920
Speaker 1: of also redefines you know, fun in the moment, it

1844
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:13,439
Speaker 1: feels arduous. But those are frankly some of the best

1845
01:50:13,439 --> 01:50:16,080
Speaker 1: experiences I've ever had, and some of the best stories

1846
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:19,559
Speaker 1: that I tell our stories from Mediator shoots, you know,

1847
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:23,720
Speaker 1: stories experiences added with you Steve or or crew members here.

1848
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:26,280
Speaker 1: And and these are guys, you know, half these guys

1849
01:50:26,320 --> 01:50:28,400
Speaker 1: I just met like three or four days ago, and

1850
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:31,439
Speaker 1: and we'll now walk away, you know, calling them without

1851
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:34,240
Speaker 1: a question my friends. UM. And so I think that

1852
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:38,560
Speaker 1: that is a really really unique um, you know platform

1853
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:43,599
Speaker 1: and you know experience that Mediator gives you, um, every

1854
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:45,960
Speaker 1: time you come out, whether you're working on it, And

1855
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:49,000
Speaker 1: hopefully that's something that people take away with, you know,

1856
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:54,479
Speaker 1: their audience members that watched this. For my thought, uh,

1857
01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:56,519
Speaker 1: I want to talk about something someone said to me

1858
01:50:56,560 --> 01:51:00,759
Speaker 1: at the first TV meeting I ever went to, because

1859
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:05,960
Speaker 1: and it's applicable to life in general. I think where

1860
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:08,479
Speaker 1: it was someone named Gloria Fan who I still keep

1861
01:51:08,479 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 1: in touch with, a producer and I went out and

1862
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:14,400
Speaker 1: met with her and some other people in Los Angeles

1863
01:51:15,920 --> 01:51:19,040
Speaker 1: in I think two thousand four or two thousand five,

1864
01:51:19,960 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 1: and uh, we sat down in the room and we're

1865
01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:25,639
Speaker 1: gonna talk about trying to do something with hunting and

1866
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:30,960
Speaker 1: others ideas. And the first thing she says, she says,

1867
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:37,759
Speaker 1: it's it's impossible to get anything made. Nothing gets done.

1868
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:43,639
Speaker 1: It's just one frustration after the other leads nowhere with that,

1869
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:52,320
Speaker 1: let's get started, all right, thanks for tuning in. It's

1870
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:55,240
Speaker 1: the documentary. It's the documentary episode. There wasn't a lot

1871
01:51:55,240 --> 01:51:57,720
Speaker 1: about hunting in this episode. It was a lot of Yeah,

1872
01:51:57,800 --> 01:51:59,479
Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to go to film school,

1873
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 1: then then listen, let's go to biology first. All right.

1874
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:07,640
Speaker 1: That was fun. Yep, thanks guys, Thank you,