1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always for 3 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: tuning in. We have a very special announcement today. We 4 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: are joined with a close friend of ours and friend 5 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: of the show. Welcome ours guest super producer Andrew A 6 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: how a k A cool guy Deluxe Howard. Andrew just 7 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: we'll keep this part in but usually uh, usually that 8 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: there's a sound cue after that that sounds cool. I 9 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: don't know, no, what do you think would be a 10 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: good sound cue? Something with snaps, sort of like something 11 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: from the Grease soundtrack, or like the beginning of West 12 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: Side Story? You know, do don't see us? Do? Do 13 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: you know? So? Yeah? See here Andrew snaps are the 14 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: sweet dulcet snaps of Andrew Howard. U a K A 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: swan swan hummingbird, Howard Hurrah a k A big tiens 16 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: uh a k A tiger foot. Let's just do an 17 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: episode where we just do a ks for Andrew. I 18 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: love it a k as for Andrew dot com. Uh, 19 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: do you know that's my favorite R I M song? 20 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: You guys? I think is swan Swan Hummingbird off of 21 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: Life's Switch pageant. I don't really know what it's about, 22 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's a very nonsensical classic Michael Stipe lyric, 23 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: but yeah, it's the lyric is swan swan hummingbird? Hurrah, 24 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: We're all free now what noisy cats are we? Um? 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: You know? But it's not really about cats or swans 26 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: or hummingbirds. Um. There's a character named Johnny Red at 27 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: some point. But today's episode is about one of those things. Uh, 28 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: mainly the Swans. Yeah, yeah, you know. I I put 29 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: r E M some of their work in this beautiful, 30 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: rarefied musical era where lyrics could sound deep and profound 31 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: and they didn't have to make sense. Shout out to you, 32 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins right the fact. Gosh, Okay, before we quote 33 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins, I forgot to say, I'm Ben. Longtime listeners, 34 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: you know most of us from this show, and you 35 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: probably have heard of Swans because you are right, Noal, 36 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: today's episode is all about swans, but it's not about 37 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: all swans, and it's also not about the seminal noise 38 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: rock band Swans. And it concerns a queen, not Freddie 39 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: Mercury's queen, but the Queen of England and a river, 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: not all rivers, but the River Tims. Now I have 41 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: a brief anecdote here. Uh. Once in London, I had 42 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: the fortune to go to this restaurant that I always 43 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: dreamed of visiting, a place called St. John. It's famous 44 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: for serving things that would usually be thrown away, and 45 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: it's called traditional British cooking, but we're talking about stuff like, 46 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, sweetbread's, tongue, brains, stuff like that. And that 47 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: is where for the first time I ate a grouse 48 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: and I realized that you can indeed eat many many birds. 49 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: Here in the US we mainly eat chicken right or duck. 50 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: Once a year bound by tradition, we eat turkey. But 51 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: back in the day, swan was not just a foul dish, 52 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: get it that everybody was familiar with, but eating it 53 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: was a mark of status for a very weird reason. Yes, 54 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: this is correct. It was a particularly weird reason, sort 55 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: of a weird historical flex that only the most fortunate 56 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: amongst the citizens of London town um were able to 57 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: eat swans. And that's because they actually had to pay 58 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: a vig to the monarchy in order to consume these 59 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: illustrious birds, which also, by the way, really cantankerous birds. 60 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: We have a friend and former colleagues got Benjamin who 61 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: has a very terrifying story about being dragged by a 62 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: swan into like a moat situation because it wanted his 63 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: ice cream cone as a kid, And that to me 64 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: is just like the stuff of nightmares. Swans are terrible 65 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: with you on that. Worse than geese, worse than which 66 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: is saying a lot. I was attacked by a swan 67 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: once in Dollywood, Uh, and it got my finger. And 68 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: it was terrified because I had not seen one up 69 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: close before, and I did not understand that when they're uh, 70 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: when they're honkers, their bills there terrifying mouthparts are open. Uh. 71 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: The inside of it looks like the inside of a nightmare. 72 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: It looks very love crafty. And it got my finger. 73 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: Swans suffer from a stereotype because in the West, we've 74 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: always heard the story of the ugly duckling that growed 75 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: us become a swan. So we all, for some reason 76 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: assume that they are as nice personality wise as they look, 77 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: and that could not be further from the truth. They're 78 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: real pills. M Yeah. The idea of like swans representing 79 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: elegance and daintiness and and um, what's the word grace, 80 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, like swan lake and the whole balletic the 81 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: those a whole move. I think it must be originated 82 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: from swan, like the dying swan, which is sort of 83 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: it's cliche ballet move where you sort of, you know, 84 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: like crouched down slowly as as though you are a 85 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: dying swan. Fascinating stuff. The way we associate these absolute 86 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: demonic creatures with all these positive traits. You're right, then 87 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: the inside of their mouth it's like they're ringed with 88 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: weird rows of like Cathulu teeth or something like. It's 89 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: it's really unsettling. But now we're arry in the lead. Here. 90 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: We said it and then got distracted by the nightmare 91 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: that is a swan. But yeah. The Queen of the 92 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: United Kingdom, also known as the Head of the Commonwealth, 93 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: also known as the Defender of the Faith, also the 94 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: Commander in Chief of the British Armed Forces, Sovereign of 95 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: the Most Noble Order of the Garter, My God, Sovereign 96 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: of the most Ancient and most Noble Order of the Thistle. Um. 97 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: These are all titles bestowed upon Elizabeth the Second, the 98 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: Queen of England. Also another one, perhaps lesser known, is 99 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: the senior of the Swans. It's true this is something 100 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: that may be unfamiliar to a lot of our non 101 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: British listeners. We like how Arthur McGregor explains it in 102 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: an issue of anthropose Logica. It turned out that swans 103 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: in this part of the world, swans were the subject 104 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: of a big controversy debate who owns them, who breeds them, 105 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: who gets to eat them. British courts and town councils 106 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: had been arguing about this since the Middle Ages. By 107 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: thirteen sixty one the crown had appointed a royal swan herd, 108 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: and by fourteen sixty three there was a full time 109 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: swan moat, and commissioners were appointed there to hear entirely 110 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: swan related disputes. In my head that dick Wolf, if 111 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: you're still listening to the show, this is law and 112 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: order Swan Court, do right, like you can feel me 113 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: there on the brainstorming. But the there's a legend behind it. 114 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: There is a legend that a mute swan was introduced 115 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: to Britain by Richard the First In the twelfth century, 116 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: and that he brought swan's back with him from his 117 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: campaigns in the Crusades. Wait, like a swan that couldn't honk, 118 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: A honkless swan. That sounds okay, I'm not, I'm not, 119 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: I'm I don't. I'm here for that. Honestly, the honk 120 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: is part of the thing that squigs me out about him. Yeah, 121 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: just google swan tongues and be prepared. Uh, if you're 122 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: running low on some cosmic horror content. It's interesting. So 123 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: that was the legend people told each other about how 124 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: swans came to be, especially in the Thams. But today 125 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: ornithologists believe the swan was probably native to the country, 126 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: and archaeological evidence of these creatures dates as far back 127 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: as ten thousand years ago. So Richard the First may 128 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: have brought one honkless swan with him after the Crusades, 129 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: but they were already well established in the country beforehand. 130 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: Oh real quick, this could be off micro Maybe it's 131 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: not a mute swan. Is not a mute swan, it's 132 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: just the name of the species. It's called a mute swan. 133 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: Not let a ride, not a uncless to water at all. 134 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: Still quite noisy. Uh yeah, but that's that's the species 135 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: of swell. That's that's that's the type of swan you 136 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: would normally picture, you know, big fluffy winged bodies, swan 137 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: like neck and a big orange beak and uh you know, 138 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm looking at images of swans, and you know, when 139 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: you you see them frozen like that, some of them 140 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: are like have their little necks intertwining. There is some 141 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: romantic qualities to this imagery, I get, but it definitely 142 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: doesn't match up to the reality of being chased by 143 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: a bloodthirsty swan. We're gonna let this stuff go and 144 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: tell the dang story, but I'm a little bit triggered 145 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: by this episode. I'm not gonna let it go. Even 146 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: if it wasn't hockey, that's not enough. I mean that 147 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: under let us not forget that, under that cute orange bill, 148 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: there is something that looks like an ancient creature from 149 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: the darkness between the stars. That tongue is unclean. Anyhow, 150 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: you're right, well, you're right, we should soldier on, we 151 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: should sail away. Sail away. Swans were luxury goods. We 152 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: know that from least the twelfth century onward. You really 153 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: wanted to flex on someone. In the days before a rolex, 154 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: you walked around with the squad and people were like, 155 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: WHOA V I P the It's actually been referred to 156 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: as the medieval equivalent of having a Rolex, or even 157 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: driving a Lamborghini or Lambeau for the cool, obnoxious people 158 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: in the crowd. If you owned a swan, people would 159 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: often just assume that you were of the noble class. 160 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: It was up there with running hounds or flying a hawk, 161 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, maybe being a falconer. And the reason that 162 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: they were so such you know features at these big 163 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: banquets is because they literally were like a show piece 164 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: because they would include the skin and the feathers and 165 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: they would have like incense shoved in its horrible hellish 166 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: ma you know um, and it would be like a centerpiece. 167 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: Like we've talked about this. There's a really cool British 168 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: chef named Heston Blumenthal and he has a show called 169 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: Heston Blumenthal's Feast where he recreates crazy, elaborate, uh you know, 170 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: kind of showy dinners from different eras in history, and 171 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he does some spin on this kind 172 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: of Christmas Swan dinner. But they would be served, uh, 173 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: two huge numbers of people. Um, and there would be 174 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: an equally equally huge number of swans, like forty swans. 175 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: I think we're ordered for Henry the Third's Christmas dinner. Uh. 176 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: And that was in twelve forty seven at Winchester Cathedral. Um. 177 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: So back to Elizabeth and Elizabeth. Elizabeth the first swan 178 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: was quite popular as a feast dish, especially when you 179 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: really went extra with it and stuffed it with like 180 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: nine other birds, which was the origination of what is 181 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: known today as the tur ducan. Uh. But this is 182 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: like that on a much more a laborate and grandiose 183 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: kind of scale. Right. Uh. It's like, oh, I guess, 184 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: so strange and macabre really, you know, like I did 185 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: nothing the thing apppetizing about that. Nothing advertising to me 186 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: about like a Russian nesting doll of dead roasted birds. 187 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: I'm into it. Yeah, yeah, I'll get down on a rushka. 188 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: You know. It's got a let's see, it's got a goose, 189 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: a duck, a mallard, a chicken, a peasant, a partridge, 190 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: a pigeon, and a woodcock. Uh. That's in descending order. 191 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: And I think that can feed thirty people. It's still 192 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: not in the class of the fabled stuffed camel, which 193 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: we might talk about in a weird aside in the 194 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: future episode. Hey, and if you if you get to 195 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: the woodcock and you get if you might find the prize. 196 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: There's a prize inside the wood cock. That's how you 197 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: know you that's that. Yeah, and then you're and then 198 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: you're crowned King of the party, bell of the ball. 199 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: But still the Queen. No, definitely not the queen, um yeah, none, 200 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: not yeah, she is the the original bay you know. 201 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: Um so yeah. And and it would be stuffed in 202 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: that ascending order, uh you know, seasons and and such, 203 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: and then cooked, um, and then it would be redressed 204 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: and again may it would it would be made to 205 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: look It's like taxidermy. It's a weird combination of like 206 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: taxidermy and uh and cheffery, which you can I keep 207 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: coming out of his word, but really maccabre like very 208 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: like just kind of it just doesn't nothing appetizing about this. 209 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: But again this is coming from somebody who I only 210 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: want to see a bird. If it doesn't look like 211 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: a bird anymore, it just looks like, you know, delicately 212 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: sliced chicken on my plate. But when you start introducing 213 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: the eyes and the beak and the neck, it really 214 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: turns me off from eating bird. There's an interesting thing here. 215 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: I was fascinated by medieval cuisine for a long time. 216 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: In the rarefied air of royal feast or feast held 217 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: by very well to do people, we would see this 218 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: tendency to prize presentation, sometimes over taste. There was this 219 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: whole fad of making one animal look or taste like 220 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: another animal. Kind of in a way, it's an alchemy 221 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: that is a that is a predecessor of the later 222 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: practice we call molecular gastronomy today with you know where 223 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: we have our pals like Richard Blaze pioneering all these 224 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: strange new techniques. But let's talk turkey. A matter of fact, 225 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: let's talk swan. How did they actually taste. The good 226 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: news here is that if you are someone like me 227 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: who feels that turkey is not to burn any bridges here, 228 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: turkey is a little overrated and it can be tough 229 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: to cook a hole when well, you will be perhaps 230 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: surprised to note that people who have eaten swans in 231 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: the past say they're pretty tasty. It's more more like 232 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: a duck than like a goose, Right, how do that? 233 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: I've had goose either, But I really love duck because 234 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: it's I don't know, I don't really care for the 235 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: word gaming. It's not appealing to me, but that people 236 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: do use that to describe it, and it tastes a 237 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: little more I don't know whild I guess even that's weird. 238 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm trying to put a a metric 239 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: on what that means. Like dark meat, I think your 240 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: tastes a little more I don't know, like it's still 241 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: got blood in it or something like a little iron ere. 242 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not doing a very good job here, 243 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: but yeah, like I think duck almost tastes more like 244 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: steak than it does like chicken or something like that. 245 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: That's that, That's what I'm gonna get. Yeah, So it 246 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: almost is like splitting the difference between like what the 247 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: U mommy, and the quality of like red meat might 248 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: be than what like purely white meat or chicken. You know, 249 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: every run of the mill meat might taste like somewhere 250 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: in between those two. Um, because it was there's some 251 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: interesting variants in some of the descriptions of eating swan 252 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: that comes from a Mental Floss article and a range 253 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: from tough to chewy to even a little fishy, which 254 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: is weird. I guess that makes sense because they are 255 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: water dwelling creatures that eat fish. Uh, then this is 256 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: a good one. The idea of it being tasting like 257 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: goose flavored venison, which is all about the texture, I 258 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: think venison really is. Uh again, it's not quite like 259 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: a steak. Venison is almost somewhere between like a chicken 260 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: and a steak. It's it's all about texture. But the 261 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: idea of it being goose flavored is interesting. It's the 262 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: gaming nature. Venison is commonly held in the West as 263 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: the number one example of something tasting quote unquote gaming. 264 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: It's just it might smell stronger, it may may have 265 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: a boulder flavor. So maybe they're saying that swan has this. Uh. Swan, 266 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: unlike duck, really pops in your mouth. I love things 267 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: that pop in my mouth. Uh. You ever had bibubba 268 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: tea with the popping Bubba's that they actually like? You 269 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: buy them and they like shoot out weird juice in 270 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: your mouth. I'm a fan that really weird some people out. 271 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: But no It's true. Um, I have had a venison burger, 272 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: but I don't know that I've actually eaten like a 273 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: like a big old cut of venison. But yeah, I 274 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: need to expand my meat horizons. But the thing about 275 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: the swan though, is it was more than just kind 276 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: of weird culinary flex It was like it was it 277 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: was very much entrenched in the British identity. You know. 278 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: It was something that was a point of pride and 279 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: something that even today, I mean people refer people from 280 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: Britain referred to going to see the swans all the time, 281 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: and it's like very much something that's wrapped up in 282 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: the identity of living in London, um, and you know, 283 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: as a country in the UK. In a fourteen nineties 284 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: six the Secretary of the Venetian Ambassador wrote of the 285 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: swans in London, they were truly a beautiful thing to behold, 286 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: one of two thousand tame swans upon the River Thames. 287 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: Then during Elizabeth the first reign uh a German lawyer 288 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: by the name of Paul hen Ser described all of 289 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: these swans as living quote in great security, nobody daring 290 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: to molest, much less kill any of them under penalty 291 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: of a large fine um. And this is from Smithsonian 292 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: mag article about the fast d any history of the 293 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: British thrones swans um. So what was the process, like, ben, 294 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: if you did want to eat one, because the whole 295 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: point of this episode, I think, is that they were 296 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: under the guard and care of the British crown. So 297 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: it's like, did you buy one and raise them yourself? 298 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: For like, I mean, surely the swans in the Thames 299 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: weren't up for grabs in that way. Right. Well, one 300 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: thing that human history has taught me, as well as 301 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: many of us listening today, is that human beings will 302 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: resort to the most ridiculous lengths to perpetrate a class system. Right, 303 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 1: we can't forget this is the same species that has 304 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: outlawed certain haircuts and certain colors based on socio economic status. 305 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: So swans were considered sort of the default property of 306 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: the monarchy. They were called royal foul. But the rules 307 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: started to uh evolve in the fourteen hundreds. At the 308 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: beginning of the fifteenth century, if you were wealthy enough, 309 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: you could buy the right to own, sell, and eat swans. 310 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: But to do this, first off, you had to be 311 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: a landowner. Secondly, you had to be pretty well off. 312 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: And third you had to buy something called a swan mark, 313 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: and you would carve this swan mark into the beaks 314 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: of your birds. Later, in fourteen a d two the 315 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: Crown made this like solid law. Only landowners of a 316 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: certain income can keep these birds. And this is funny 317 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: to me because one thing I've always found fascinating about 318 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: London is, uh, the sheer amount of taxation for various 319 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: things like there's a wind, there was a window tax. 320 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: I think there was a television tax. Uh, and this 321 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: was the swan tax. So really all you got for 322 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: paying this fee was the right to make this carving 323 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: or brand on your swan beaks. Uh. And if you 324 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: didn't do this, there would be consequences. It's funny because, uh, 325 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't always the same mark, right, it was a 326 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: specific kind per like swan mark agreement. That's right. There 327 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: were actually hundreds of different types of swan marks, and 328 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: you can even find entire books dedicated to keeping track 329 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: of all of the various ones. And they would be 330 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: different symbols, almost like a family crest, right, you know 331 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: that you would think of or like a tartan or 332 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: whatever like in Scotland. Um, things like swords, their crossbows 333 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: or kind of you know, elaborate calligraphic kind of marketings 334 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: like heraldic symbols, and and then eventually it got a 335 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: little more simple and they just made them letters. But yeah, 336 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: every year something called a swan master, of which there 337 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: were many, um, but they were designated as like the 338 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: keepers of the swans would row on a boat out 339 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: through the open waters to determine the ownership of every 340 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: single mark on on these these swans beaks and make 341 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: sure that they knew who owned them and any of 342 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: the unmarked birds belonged to the crown. So this is 343 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: they totally answered my question, ben Uh. It definitely was 344 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: a super elaborate dare I say overly so process, um, 345 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: But only those who owned that right. That again was 346 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: a very convoluted set of criteria that went into your 347 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: ability to own that right. Um could own swans, and 348 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: they were very, very expensive. It's almost like think of 349 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: it as like buying like a like a taxi medallion 350 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: or something you know you were investing in a long term, 351 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: like because you know, if you had a swan, I 352 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: guess you could breathe this one or I don't know, like, 353 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: was it limited to just that one swan in the 354 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: life of that swan. Surely you could do with that 355 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: swan what what you wanted and use it to create 356 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: more swans. Yeah, you had to bring him, but you 357 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: had to be sure to markham back when they were 358 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: young swans or sicknets, because otherwise they automatically belong to 359 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: the monarchy. It's weird. So much legal work went into this, 360 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: like local councils would have swan collectors that would round 361 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: up wild swans. Adam two flocks already talked about law 362 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: and order swancourt Doom Doommom Doom, doom, doom hawk. Uh. There. 363 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: There's a really fascinating thing in fifteen seventy called the 364 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: Audor of Swans. It's a legal document that sort of 365 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: articulates the rules relating to these birds specifically, and it 366 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: shows us just how high the finds were for people 367 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: who were who were flouting the law. They said, if 368 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: any person do raise out counterfeit or or to the 369 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: mop of any swan, they shot a sappha one years 370 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: and prison months. And this is where I don't know 371 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: about you guys. This is where I learned about a 372 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: crime I had never heard of. If you commit swantage, 373 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: that is killing swantage, if you kill an adult swan, 374 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: or if you even steal the eggs, then you will 375 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: also be punished with a very harsh sentence, likely imprisonment, 376 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: because we have to remember, you know, many people over 377 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: history at this point might be killing adult birds because 378 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: they had to feed their family, or stealing eggs for 379 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: the same reason. That's exactly right. That's the kind of 380 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: thing that you hear about in like fairy tales, you know, 381 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: where the father of the poverty stricken family steals a 382 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: single egg from the queen's you know, uh flock or 383 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: whatever and then gets cursed by an evil witch or 384 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: something like that. But this this was a little bit 385 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: more grounded. Where you were prison and there was a 386 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: thing called, I love this term, a swan's moot that 387 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: was an event that would be convened in order to 388 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: deal with various issues that would arise in terms of 389 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: swan ownership. So it really was like a whole subsystem 390 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: of of legal mumbo jumbo that went into this whole 391 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: idea of swan ownership. Um. It's fascinating. And there were 392 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: a couple of exceptions though, to which lower class people 393 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: might have access to swans. Because of the whole system 394 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: being designed, you know, for the the super wealthy, oftentimes 395 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: the barrier to hustry for swan ownership just wasn't reachable 396 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: for the lower class. If you weren't an officially recognized 397 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: swan mark bearer, then it was forbidden to eat, to 398 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: sell swans, or to breathe swans. Like. It wasn't just 399 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: like the swans in the Thames. It was the idea 400 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: of swans right, like as an animal, which is that's crazy, Like, 401 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: that's not something that we have any equivalent for. I 402 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: don't believe. Well, I mean maybe it was certain exotic 403 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: animals that are like not technically right, that's right, that's yeah, 404 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: maybe so, but that but that more has to do 405 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: with the fact that those are endangered and there's conservation, 406 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: which we will get to on this issue as well 407 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: in a little bit. But um, yeah, it's true. If 408 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: you weren't an officially recognized swan keeper, you weren't allowed 409 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: to sell them, you couldn't hunt them, uh, and you 410 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: certainly couldn't eat them, and and god forbid, you'd try 411 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: to steal one or kill one that was actually in 412 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: the Thames. Uh, you would be quick, work would be 413 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: made of you, my friend, my historical friend. But there 414 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: was an exception made for certain more Let's say, you 415 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: know blue collar workers, um uh, winemakers and dyers literally 416 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: folks who died clothing and things. Uh, there were these 417 00:25:54,160 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: kind of guilds that were given a pass two participate 418 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: aiden swan ownership. And can you unpack this a little 419 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: bit for us? It's really interesting and in a little 420 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: bit complicated. Yeah, so this is a This is another 421 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: one of my favorite historical aspects of London. Inside London, 422 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: there's something called the City of London. They're different. The 423 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: City of London has these powerful historical organizations called livery companies. 424 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: They're usually styled the Worshipable Company of insert here, so 425 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: like the worshipble Company of dyers or the Worshipable Company 426 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: Inventors or so on. They've had this really strange relationship 427 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: with the monarchy that over the centuries has become defined 428 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: by tradition and numerous exceptions to the rules of the day. 429 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: So the act of the monarchy to exempt the inventors 430 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: and dyers to essentially allow them to have swans without 431 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: going to jail is one more example of the carrot 432 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: and the carrot and stick approach that the monarchy used 433 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: to work with the trade guilds. Because we have to 434 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: remember this is while the mercantile classes on the rise, 435 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You can be wealthy and 436 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: you don't automatically have to be a duchess or a 437 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: king or a queen. So we don't know exactly why 438 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: they were granted this exemption, but we we can safely 439 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: assume it was meant to strengthen that working relationship, and 440 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: then over time other people got involved. The Ilchester family 441 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: is the third exception. They're one of the only three 442 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: entities who have a right to the Swans, the Dyers, 443 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: the Venors, and the Ilchesters. I would imagine, if we're 444 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: just wildly speculating and making things up, that maybe the 445 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: Dyers were giving them a royal discount on fancy clothes. 446 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: And I think getting in good with the Ventors speaks 447 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: for itself, because who doesn't like to knock a few 448 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: back when you're running merry Old England. As for the 449 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: Ilchester family, that maybe a story for another day. Eventually, 450 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: swan kind of transition to this traditional food right. It 451 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: wasn't swan. It's not just for feast anymore. But it 452 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: became part of Christmas celebrations, you know, goose or swan, 453 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: it did. And I really like this notion of a 454 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: status meat. I just have to say, I guess maybe 455 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: what today would be a status meat like filet mignon. 456 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: You know, is there like an expensive cut of like 457 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: rack of lamb or something like that, it would be 458 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: a status meat. Or the law tiger tongues well endangered species. 459 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think we should eat them, 460 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: but shark fin soup the cruelest status meat of them all. 461 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: A how on the k how I'll take it, Okay, 462 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: we'll do it. Um Our kobe beef, you know, something 463 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: that's like a very raised in a very specific way, 464 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: very rarefied conditions, fed with a certain type of grain 465 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: or what have you. Um, that would be maybe today's 466 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: equivalent of status meat. Veal caviare totally and they're all 467 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: quite pricey. Uh. And you know, swan was sort of 468 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: like it has seen its day in the sun as 469 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: as as a status meat of the time. Um, it 470 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: was still a delicacy and used as part of Christmas 471 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: celebrations up until the eighteenth century. Um, but it was 472 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: still only legal to kill and eat one if you 473 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: had that swan mark, and so did kind of remain 474 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: a luxury good into the Victorian period, when it sort 475 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: of became a little less cool. Um. You know how 476 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: fashions are, they're they're very fleeting at times. And now 477 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: this one, this one stuck around for a pretty pretty 478 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: pretty good amount of time considering how most trends are. Um. 479 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: But by the twentieth century, it really wasn't eaten. And 480 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: the whole idea of swan marks still stuck around, but 481 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: more as like a almost like a tradition. And then 482 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: it stopped. So I sort of started being red flagged 483 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: by a lot of like organizations that look at animal 484 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: cruelty and said that it wasn't cool to scratch letters 485 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: into the the beak of the swans, because you know, 486 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: I think those are sort of bony. But I bet 487 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't a pleasant experience, right, No, No, I don't 488 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: think the swans themselves would have voted for it, had 489 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: they had the swan vote, But you're right. The decline 490 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: of this practice was also pretty slow. In this might 491 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: surprise some people to know that animal rights activists in 492 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds were the driving force behind the 493 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: end of the swan markings. They said it constituted unnecessary suffering, 494 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: and so eventually Queen Alexandra was married to King Edward 495 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: the Seven and stopped the royal birds at least from 496 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: being marked. But it was not until nineteen that the 497 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: law was changed such that it was no longer an 498 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: active treason to eat a swan in the UK, unless 499 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: you know you had your paperwork and your swan mark 500 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: and so on. As a native species, mute swans are 501 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: still under legal protection, though it's not just the Queens 502 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: give me all them impulse anymore. Though now swans are 503 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: protected as wild birds under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 504 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: of one, which means and even now in it is 505 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: illegal to kill or keep swans, you can still technically 506 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: be guilty of swantage. Oh how far we've come. Oh, 507 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: and this is the weirdest part. No, maybe you can 508 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: help me with this. Who still owns all the swans? 509 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: I think the Queens still owns every unmarked mute swan. 510 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: And that's exactly right. And here's the thing, though, there 511 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: is and this is a tradition, and this is something 512 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: that like, you know, the Brits are all about tradition. 513 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: I think it was off Mike. We were talking about 514 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: like things like funny hats that happened for very specific 515 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: purposes or to to indicate different levels of education or 516 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: progression through you know, a military unit or whatever. That 517 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: then just kind of stick around, you know, and they 518 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: stop being a functional thing and they more become like 519 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: about pageantry or more. Is like revering the legacy of 520 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: a thing that maybe meant something specific a long time ago, 521 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: but now has no real place in modern society. But 522 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: you stick around and you keep wearing those funny hats 523 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: or whatever. Uh. There's a thing that still is going 524 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: on today called swan upping, uh that that involves funny hats, 525 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: which I enjoy. There's sort of like, uh almost look 526 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: like like a like a paper sailboat you might drop 527 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: in the Thames, but but in hat form um. So 528 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,479 Speaker 1: this is something that's been happening for a nine years. Um. 529 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: We we may be alluded to it a little bit 530 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: earlier about the idea of the swan masters who would 531 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: check the marks and uh, you know kind of do 532 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: account and make sure that you know, they claimed all 533 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: of the unmarked swans. Um. That is called swan upping. 534 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: And so they roll out now as part of this 535 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: like carrying on this tradition. Um. They've been doing this 536 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: for nine years. These men row up and down the 537 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: Thames looking to mark, check and count the swans. And 538 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 1: actually you can see a great video of it on 539 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: YouTube you type in swan uping. Uh. They weigh them. 540 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: They actually lift them out by hand of the water 541 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: and weigh them on a scale. Um and and and 542 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, keep a ledger of like all of the 543 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: swans in the Thames. Um. And in some you know, 544 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: sad yet unsurprising news, this year's swan upping ceremony will 545 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: not be taking place. Uh. It dates back to the 546 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: twelfth century. And I believe this maybe the first swan 547 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: upping ceremony that's been cant old because of the pandemic. Yeah, 548 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: because of the pandemic. Right, I'm not aware whether or 549 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: not it was canceled at some point during World War 550 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: two or other times of great turmoil. Nowadays, it still 551 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: exists because that tradition is very useful. It's a conservation tool. 552 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: It's a predecessor of the operations that conservationists take around 553 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: the world, you know, tagging and monitoring populations of wild animals. 554 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: Technically now all on marked swans on open water belong 555 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: to the Queen, but the Queen only exercises this ownership 556 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: right on this one stretch of the Thims. And when 557 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: killing swans was outlawed in the nineteen eighties, the population 558 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: of England was shrinking, and a lot of people nowadays 559 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: believe that the Queen is the only person allowed to 560 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 1: eat mute swans. Here's a bit of weird British plot 561 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: twist or ree for you. That's not exactly correct, but 562 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: it is maybe correct in practice, because remember, the Queen 563 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: of England is considered immune from prosecution. So she woke 564 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: up one day and said, I just want to eat 565 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: swans forever legally no one could really stop her. It's uh, 566 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: it's it's good to be at the top, I guess, 567 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: And hey, you might be asking yourself, I don't live 568 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: in the UK, I really want to eat a swan? 569 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: How do I? How do I? How do I go 570 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: about this? Um? It is a thing. It's sort of 571 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: like an exotic meats, like pigeon or emu, or like 572 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: Ostrich And you see these here and there certain types 573 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: of restaurants that would specialize in kind of more game 574 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: type meets, but you still aren't gonna see swan on 575 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: the menu. And there's a reason for that. It is 576 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: technically in the United States legal to hunt and kill 577 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: swans if you have the appropriate permit. I don't know 578 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: how that would go. Where there Where are their wild 579 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: swans in the US? I'm not sure, but nobody really 580 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 1: does it, and nobody well, if they do, they might 581 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: do it for uh trophy purposes right for But even 582 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: that already? Can you sense where I'm going with this 583 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: kind of weirds people out? It was sort of be 584 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: the equivalent of like hunting puppies, you know. And I 585 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: don't know why, considering what we've said about the nightmare 586 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: fuel that is swan, I feel like they should all 587 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: be hunted down and eliminated personally. Um, that's a hot take. 588 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: That's a hot take. I'm only half serious, um, three 589 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: quarters serious. But um, it's because of something called the 590 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: meat paradox um. And there's actually a really cool article 591 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,920 Speaker 1: on the outline that talks about why don't we eat swans? 592 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: Knowing that we eat things like turkey and goose and 593 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: even rabbit. We talked about this actually with Casey on 594 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: a previous episode about where do we draw the line? Um, 595 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: And this is a thing, it's called the meat paradox, 596 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: And this is the mind's way of kind of coping 597 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: with this disfluency over like, you know, what animals are 598 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: okay to eat? What animals do we associate more es 599 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: sentience and intelligence with. And it's also kind of it 600 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: doesn't always work out because, as we talked about with Casey, 601 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: pigs are very intelligent, but yet we have no problem 602 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: with eating them. They're also kind of cute, even though 603 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: they roll around in their own filth. People would uh, 604 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: people would eat anything though. I mean, that's why starvation 605 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: cannibalism exists exactly. But for some reason, swans fit squarely 606 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 1: within that no no zone of the meat paradox. Go figure, Yeah, 607 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: this is interesting. So you can catch uh, you can 608 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: catch us swans? Can you can buy swans in the 609 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: US Many people do, but it's more of an ornamental thing. 610 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: You can go to any number of institutions and they'll 611 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: just have swans hanging out. They fell out of favor 612 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: as food, uh, partially there's sort of a positive feedback loop. 613 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: Part of the reason they fell out of favor as 614 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: food is because if you are manufacturing swans for consumption, 615 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: you have to compete with the huge economic scale of 616 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: other mainstream meat manufacturers and other well we would call 617 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: them exotic meat manufacturers, you know, squab, quail, pigeon, etcetera. 618 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 1: And I'm having a little bit of a hard time 619 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: finding if this is entirely true, because there's some folks 620 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: saying that it's sort of a myth. But there is 621 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: this notion that swans mate for life. Um, and that's 622 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: another reason that I think folks are differentiating them from 623 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: other creatures, because there's this notion. There's even a quote 624 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: in that article that we were talking about. Uh, the 625 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: image of a lonely swan searching fruitlessly for its butchered 626 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: partner would surely make even the most obnoxious bacon is 627 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: my personality meat bro think twice. So we can say that, 628 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: uh presentation aside, it's probably not going to change your 629 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: life to eat a swan. You don't. You don't have 630 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: to uh to enjoy them. You can just see these 631 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: lovely creatures lovely from far away. The same way that 632 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: maybe a bonfire looks lovely far away, you can enjoy 633 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: it from a distance, but we don't recommend hanging out 634 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: with them in person. If you are the caretaker of 635 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: some swans, we'd love to hear from you. Have you 636 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: ever eaten swan? Have you have you tried it? How 637 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: would you cook it? I found a great recipe, a 638 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: couple of great recipes, but I myself have not made swan. 639 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: You can find us on the internet in places. Um, 640 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: we've got Instagram and and you know, Facebook and all that. 641 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 1: For ridiculous history. Our recommendation, as you know, is typically 642 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 1: to join the Facebook group Ridiculous Historians, where you can 643 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: share memes about swans and they're horrible hell scape of 644 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: a mouth and tongue situation. There's definitely some of those 645 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: out there. Uh. If you want to trigger me with 646 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: other bird pictures and stories or p bend with pictures 647 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: of metal, you can do that there too, And we do. 648 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: We do kind of creep through the group from agree 649 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: to this. Well, Uh, okay, you know do what that will, 650 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: is what I say. Um, and let the chips fall 651 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: where they may. Yeah, you can find that on Facebook. 652 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: You can also find us as individual human people. I'm 653 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: pretty much only on Instagram and I am at how 654 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: Now Noel Brown. There. You can see me encountering very 655 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: strange foods actually on my Instagram at Ben Bolland. You 656 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter where I'm at Ben Bolland. 657 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: H s W. Thanks again to our fantastic guest super 658 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: producer Andrew A how a k A Cool GUYE Deluxe 659 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: Howard a k a uh Swan Master a k A. 660 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: Mr magic Our. Thanks so much for joining us today. Andrew, 661 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Great to be here. I hope 662 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: you mean it because I think you're recording another episode 663 00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: with us, So thanks as well as always to Alex Willams, 664 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: who composed this slapping Bob you here at the beginning 665 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: and end of every episode thanks to the quister. Hey, 666 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: and speaking of the slapping Bob, or as I like 667 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: to refer to it as the Bop and slap Um, 668 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: you have any Ben Trepid remixers out there, sample that business, 669 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: send it back to us. Alex would be tickled, you know, 670 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: do do a remix of the ridiculous history theme. That 671 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: would be a lot of fun. Homework assignment to any 672 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: musicians or home bedroom recording artists out there. Um, you know, 673 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: you know not not not not not mandatory, but it'd 674 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: be fun to hear. Um. Yeah, Jonathan Strickland, that devious, 675 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: notorious quister who I believe will be zoom bombing us 676 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: again very soon. Um. Thanks to the Gabe Louisier um 677 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: who is our intrepid research associate. Um. And thanks to 678 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 1: christophrostiotis here in spirit. Shout out to Swan Songs and 679 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: of course, as I always like to say in these episodes, 680 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: who are number one fan the Queen of England. Thanks 681 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 1: for tuning in. We'll see you next time, folks. M 682 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 683 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 684 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 1: your favorite shows