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Speaker 1: Global business news twenty four hours a day at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com, the Radio plus Mobile Act and on your radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a Bloomberg Business Flag, Tom Bloomberg World Handquarters.

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Speaker 1: I'm Charlie Pellett. That dal the SMP NZ stack all

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Speaker 1: declining right now. With the SMP down seven tenths of

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Speaker 1: one percent, banks are retreating amid growing concern that Deutsche

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Speaker 1: Bank's woes will spread to the global financial sector. Shares

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Speaker 1: of Deutsche Bank they're down six point seven percent now

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Speaker 1: at eleven forty eight. NEZ stacked down forty one, a

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Speaker 1: drop there of eight tenths of one percent down, Industrials

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Speaker 1: down one fifty eight, a decline there of nine tenths

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Speaker 1: of one percent. The tenure of four thirty seconds yield

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Speaker 1: one point five six percent, Gold up to thirty then

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Speaker 1: scaining two tenths of one percent of thirteen twenty one

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Speaker 1: and crude oil West Texas Intermediate advancing one point four

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Speaker 1: percent now up sixty five cents of arrel forty seven

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Speaker 1: seventy one On w T I, I'm Charlie Pellet. That's

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Speaker 1: a blue Bread business flash. Thank you very much, Charlie Pellett.

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Speaker 1: It's time now, for the e t F Report. It's

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Withem, Smith and Brown c P,

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Speaker 1: a s audit, tax and advisory services helping you and

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Speaker 1: your business be in a position of strength. Experience the

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Speaker 1: within way by visiting Withem dot com. Let's go to

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Speaker 1: Catherine Cowdery for our Exchange Traded Funds report. Smart beta

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Speaker 1: and factor e t s are becoming increasingly popular among

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Speaker 1: institutional investors. The latest foot see Russell survey of global

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Speaker 1: institutional asset owners shows seventy two percent of those who

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Speaker 1: responded are implementing or actively evaluating smart data indexes. That's

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Speaker 1: up from just last year. Ralph Agatha, Managing director of

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Speaker 1: research for foot See Russell North America, on how these

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Speaker 1: institutional investors are putting smart data and factor e t

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Speaker 1: s to work. In the low return environment now, a

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Speaker 1: lot of institutions are trying to to boost those returns,

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Speaker 1: and so looking at smart beta or factor products enables

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Speaker 1: them to actually maybe add something to that. Agathe are

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Speaker 1: on the most popular smart beta and factor e t

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Speaker 1: s among institutional investors this year. If you you look

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Speaker 1: at what's actually in place now where acid owners have

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Speaker 1: actually made investments, it does tend to be in low volatility,

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Speaker 1: value strategies, fundamentally weighted strategies. But when we ask questions

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Speaker 1: about what's being evaluated potentially for future use, you now

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Speaker 1: are seeing an increase in multi factor strategies. Agathur says

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Speaker 1: smart beta and factor et s can potentially replace hedge funds.

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Speaker 1: That's your Bloomberg ETF report. I'm Catherine Cowdery. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to Taking Stock with Kathleen Hays and Pim Fox on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. After the central role that big banks played

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Speaker 1: in the last financial crisis, people could understandably nervous one

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Speaker 1: of the world's biggest banks finds itself with its stock

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Speaker 1: falling and people wondering about the future of the bank.

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Speaker 1: Will Deutsche Bank's problems rise to the level we saw

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Speaker 1: just some seven eight years ago. Peter Cheer joins us,

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Speaker 1: now a head of Macro stress a g at Breen

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Speaker 1: Capital here in our New York studio. So you watched

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Speaker 1: all the signals so closely, Peter, you watched stocks, you

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Speaker 1: watched derrivatives, the market. Is it really all that concerned yet? No?

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's that concerned. I think today was

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Speaker 1: one of those examples where we saw a headline hit

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Speaker 1: about collateral issues or people pullying some collateral out of

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Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank in terms of their prime brokerage business, and

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Speaker 1: that led to us all off in markets. I think

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Speaker 1: that was very quickly, you know, stopped and changed. And

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Speaker 1: when I look at this right now, I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's a systemic risk being posed by Deutsche Bank. Peter Scherer,

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Speaker 1: Let's put Deutsche Bank just to the side. Per minute,

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Speaker 1: you make any money less quarter this quarter, we've been

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Speaker 1: doing okay. One of the things we caught early on

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Speaker 1: was we shifted a lot of our investments to live

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Speaker 1: ard based, so we took advantage of this rise on

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Speaker 1: live or, we shifted to leverage loans, we shifted out

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Speaker 1: of high yield, so we've been a little bit more

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Speaker 1: on the conservative side and we've pushed away from the

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Speaker 1: yield based investment. Why did the liveboard rate move in

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Speaker 1: your favor? You know, I think there were two things

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Speaker 1: going on. One, there's all this regulation that's going into

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Speaker 1: full effect on the teenth of October, which means money

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Speaker 1: markets have less ability to you know, invest in anything

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Speaker 1: other than T bills. So there's a cost that's been

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Speaker 1: associated with that. I think the other part is ICE itself.

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Speaker 1: So ICE actually controls live or now and how it's

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Speaker 1: calculated in intercontinental exchange. Yes, um, And so what they've

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Speaker 1: been trying to do is make it more of a

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Speaker 1: market based benchmark rather than just banks submitting where they

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Speaker 1: want to. It's still is in that process, but as

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Speaker 1: it shifts, I think that will have a permanent fact

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Speaker 1: to make live or higher. It's a good thing for everyone, right,

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Speaker 1: No one wants to go through another round of lawsuits

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Speaker 1: associated with live or. Everyone wants to say that it's

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Speaker 1: a clean, very fair and market you know, neutral index.

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Speaker 1: And as that occurs, I think that's pushed live or

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Speaker 1: higher to get rid of some of the artificial lowness

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Speaker 1: of it. But of course, let's don't have library be

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Speaker 1: a problem. Let's don't have big banks get themselves in

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Speaker 1: trouble and have to pay millions of dollars of fines.

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Speaker 1: And of course that's one of the reasons why Deutsche

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Speaker 1: Bunk is under pressure and people are concerned. Why did

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Speaker 1: you just say that this is not anywhere near rising

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Speaker 1: to the level of systemic risk. So I think a

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Speaker 1: couple of things, first and foremost, any for all banks

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Speaker 1: we've seen a big pull back in terms of these

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Speaker 1: bilateral swap trades. A lot of that counterparty risk that

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Speaker 1: was extremely prevalent in two thousand and seven, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, even in two thousand and ten eleven when

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Speaker 1: the European banking crisis was in turmoil, has been pulled back.

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Speaker 1: It's not exchange traded, so I think it's much better managed.

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Speaker 1: There's fewer potential surprises from that sort of a situation arising.

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Speaker 1: Then beyond that, I think the reality is that no

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Speaker 1: regulator will allow another Leman type moment. So we already

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Speaker 1: have the ECB steps in. They've already provided a lot

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Speaker 1: of funding to banks. They will provide more funding to banks.

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Speaker 1: No bank will get into trouble because they can't fund

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Speaker 1: themselves overnight or short term, because the central banks will

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Speaker 1: provide for that. And then I think the governments at

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Speaker 1: some level, they may extract a big pound of flesh

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Speaker 1: to do so, but at some level they will step

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Speaker 1: in to protect the institutions in the systemic risk. No

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Speaker 1: one wants to even test another Leman type moment. All right,

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Speaker 1: how just been trying to get this live ard number

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Speaker 1: for you, so you can just we can put it

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Speaker 1: into some kind of a context here, because you know,

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Speaker 1: taking a look at what's going on right now in

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Speaker 1: the bond market, you gotta you know you got buying right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you got buying at the long end, the

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Speaker 1: short end, I mean the thirty year is up nine

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds to point to seven. You take a look

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Speaker 1: at the tenure, we're talking about one point five five

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Speaker 1: also a bid higher four thirty seconds now looking at

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Speaker 1: liboru the fixes what one year live or at one

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Speaker 1: point five five right, So you're almost the same as

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Speaker 1: where you are on the tenure. So we've been looking

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Speaker 1: to get people into one year live or type of paper.

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Speaker 1: A lot of its home equity related and where you

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Speaker 1: get that pick up and you give up and you

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Speaker 1: don't have to take the interest rate risk. At the

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Speaker 1: same time, I think, from a personal standpoint, anyone out

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Speaker 1: there who has a home equity line of credit of

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Speaker 1: any form or any sort of arm should be looking

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Speaker 1: what it's benchmarks against. And if it is against libor,

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Speaker 1: you're now paying much more than maybe if you roll

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Speaker 1: this into fixed or some other or things. So I

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Speaker 1: think from a personal level, you're supposed to be checking, look,

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Speaker 1: is your home echory loan tied to live or if so,

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Speaker 1: maybe you want to re examine whether floating is the

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Speaker 1: right sense or whether you want to move to a

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Speaker 1: different floating rate benchmark. Of course, rates at a lot

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Speaker 1: of global forces that determine broadly where rates are heading

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Speaker 1: central banks. But I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: OPEC because you, like others, are maybe a bit skeptical

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Speaker 1: of where that's going. Yes, I think they had to

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Speaker 1: announce some sort of plan. I think they felt the

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Speaker 1: pressure to announce a plan because they wanted to control

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Speaker 1: this recent slide again that we're seeing in oil. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure also they wanted to detract a little bit from

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Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, the U S was embroiled

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Speaker 1: in legislation that would allow victims to sue Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 1: So I can't believe that it's a coincidence that they

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Speaker 1: announced this plan at the same time that's coming out.

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Speaker 1: Will they live up to these standards might don't I

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Speaker 1: doubt it over time, right, I think their whole goal

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Speaker 1: is to keep oil supported, and my view from a

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Speaker 1: macroeconomic standpoint has been that oil will somewhere be in

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Speaker 1: that forty to fifty five dollar range this year, and

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Speaker 1: I think this just adds to that support. Maybe you'll

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Speaker 1: trade up a little bit more. But as soon as

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Speaker 1: it gets higher, it gets closer to fifty, we'll see

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Speaker 1: selling pressure come in. We'll see cheating within the OPEC nations.

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Speaker 1: I think as it gets down to forty, supply comes

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Speaker 1: off the US and the OPEC members can say the

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Speaker 1: right things to push it back. Trades you wish you

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Speaker 1: had made during the quarter. You know, I was too

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Speaker 1: pessimistic on the treasury market. I did not think the

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Speaker 1: treasury market would rally to these new levels we backed

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Speaker 1: up to, you know. You know, I think I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: signs that the central banks are pulling back a little

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Speaker 1: bit from KIWI, that maybe even the Bank of Japan's

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Speaker 1: hinting at pulling back from KWI or seeing what way,

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Speaker 1: like they're not buying something that they might buy less

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Speaker 1: of or just stay the same amount in a world

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Speaker 1: where everyone's been conditioned to see more and more buying,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, we're seeing a little bit of signs

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Speaker 1: of inflation, a little bit more hockey fed. So that's

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Speaker 1: one thing I've definitely missed is what was the October fourteenth,

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Speaker 1: the note that you want to offer, just in terms

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Speaker 1: of because we've been talking about that on taking stock

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Speaker 1: for a while. It has to do with money market

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Speaker 1: funds that many people treat as if they are bank accounts,

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Speaker 1: but they are not by any means bank accounts. They

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Speaker 1: are not by any means bank accounts. Having said that,

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Speaker 1: so this is all about breaking the buck, and there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of rules now to ensure that money market

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Speaker 1: funds can have some else variations and value. I have

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Speaker 1: not done the work. I saw some good work. I'll

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Speaker 1: try and dig back up. But someone showed to me

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Speaker 1: that the worst money market fund during the time the

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Speaker 1: crisis would have had a price of like spot nine seven,

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Speaker 1: so it would have lost maybe three cents on a

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Speaker 1: market market basis, and that's back when you were getting

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Speaker 1: four percent yields, so it's probably less than three weeks

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Speaker 1: or a month's worth of interest. So some of this, again,

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Speaker 1: I think we're trying to fix problems that were never

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Speaker 1: as big of a problem, and I am concerned that

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Speaker 1: the solutions are going to cause new problems that we're

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Speaker 1: not going to be prepared for. How about another date

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Speaker 1: coming up November eight. There's a lot of analysis being

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Speaker 1: done in notes that saying you know, you better be ready,

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Speaker 1: put your head down, getting a very defensive position because

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Speaker 1: there could be a lot of volatility. And I think

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Speaker 1: people don't just mean stock depending on who gets elected,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think that's a risk. I think we

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Speaker 1: see that every election cycle, traditionally VIX actually rises coming

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Speaker 1: into October of or sorry into during October of election cycles.

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Speaker 1: There's a part of me that wants to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit more optimistic here that we are more likely

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Speaker 1: to get a surprise. And as a Canadian, I actually

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Speaker 1: don't vote um, so I'm not opinionated in terms of that.

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Speaker 1: I would like to see if the Democrats win a

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Speaker 1: little bit pullback on the rhetoric towards regulation. I think

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Speaker 1: we actually do need less regulation both in our industry

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Speaker 1: and across the board, and I would like to see

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Speaker 1: that to be the surprise there. And ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's that old joke about the scorpion the frog, and

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Speaker 1: the scorpion stings the frog while giving them a ride across.

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Speaker 1: That's what course scorpions do, they staying. While Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: is a builder, ultimately the thing that he knows how

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Speaker 1: to do is borrow money and build, so I think

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Speaker 1: we'd be Some people will actually be surprised by his

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Speaker 1: ability to get infrastructure spending going all right, thank very much.

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Speaker 1: Peter Cheer. He is the head of macro strategy at

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Speaker 1: Bring Capital. We're going to take you through to the close.

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Speaker 1: Next on taking stock and this is Bloomberg. H