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Speaker 1: Me and Janen actually found out when we're driving. I

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Speaker 1: started getting notifications on my Instagram and then we opened

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Speaker 1: it up. We stopped the car and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is actually happening now. To see

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Speaker 1: that something is happening, it's so public, it's just it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I

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Speaker 2: am Jess passiveto executive producer of the Netflix series Dancing

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Speaker 2: for the Devil, the seven M TikTok.

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Speaker 3: Cult, and I'm Cleah Gray. For'm a member of Chicina

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Speaker 3: Church and the seven M Films.

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Speaker 2: The documentary that we did explored the story of Robert

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Speaker 2: Shin and the La based Chicina Church in seven M Films.

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Speaker 2: Shin founded Chakina Church over two decades ago before establishing

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Speaker 2: seven M Films, and he's named in a civil lawsuit

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Speaker 2: alleging abuse and cult like behavior. And now on top

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Speaker 2: of the civil lawsuit, let him have it.

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Speaker 3: So there is now a criminal investigation that has been

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Speaker 3: made public because on July twenty fifth, the FBI led

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Speaker 3: an operation along with the Elmani Police Tactical Team and

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Speaker 3: the US Postal Inspection Service. They executed search and arrest

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Speaker 3: warrants at the PSALMN residents that I knew it as

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Speaker 3: into Hunga. According to Fox eleven, there's video footage that

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Speaker 3: shows police speaking into a bullhorn and ordering anyone on

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Speaker 3: the property to come to the front door with your

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Speaker 3: hands up. We have a search warrant. Some of the

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Speaker 3: charges that were reported were money laundering, tax evasion, and

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Speaker 3: sex trafficking. According to ABC seven, investigators could be seen

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Speaker 3: loading cartons of possible evidence into an suv and some

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Speaker 3: of the videos showed at least five handcuffed individuals, but

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Speaker 3: as of right now, no arrests were officially announced, and

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Speaker 3: there's been a lot of people at coming forward. I know,

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Speaker 3: I've been getting a lot of text messages, Jessica, You've

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Speaker 3: been getting a lot of text messages and inquiries because

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Speaker 3: a lot of things are being made public, like very

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Speaker 3: public now very public.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been kind of a whirlwind. And from the

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Speaker 2: morning that had happened and my phone blowing up, it

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Speaker 2: took me a second. I like legit. I think I

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Speaker 2: was in shock because when I got the text message

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Speaker 2: from Melanie, I looked at it and it was an

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Speaker 2: article from KTLA and there was a video on it

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Speaker 2: and I was looking at it and I was like,

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Speaker 2: what is what is this? And it took me a

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Speaker 2: second because it was this wide shot of Chicaina Church

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Speaker 2: and Tahunga, and I think I was in shock because

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Speaker 2: I knew what it was, clearly knew what it was,

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Speaker 2: and it was like, Oh my gosh, it's happening. And

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Speaker 2: then it's like this flood of emotion comes over and

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Speaker 2: I just was like frantic. I didn't know what to do,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, I ended up calling you, Kallia

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Speaker 2: and just like, how did you feel like when you

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Speaker 2: first looked at your phone and you saw that that

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Speaker 2: raid had happened.

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Speaker 4: Who told me was Kevin.

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Speaker 3: It was right when he woke me up at eight am,

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Speaker 3: because I'm not really a morning person. If you don't know,

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Speaker 3: I definitely wake up on the later side of ten

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Speaker 3: am typically, and so it's eight am and he like,

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Speaker 3: he doesn't. He just kind of turns in bed and

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Speaker 3: is like, Khalia, look at what's happening.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, and he had shown me the pictures.

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Speaker 3: He's like, the FBI came in and I went to

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Speaker 3: see and saw who posted it, and I just saw

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Speaker 3: like pictures of people in handcuffs with their faces blurred,

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Speaker 3: and then the property itself, and I was just thinking,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, I know that property. It was so

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Speaker 3: shocking to me because I just almost couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 3: There was like a while where I really felt like

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Speaker 3: nothing criminally was gonna happen. There was a where I

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Speaker 3: feel like, Okay, maybe they are gonna get away with

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Speaker 3: everything that they've been doing for years and years, and

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Speaker 3: at least I have like that, at least I did

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Speaker 3: my due diligence.

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Speaker 4: I did what I could as much as I could.

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Speaker 3: And then so to wake up and hear that was like, wow,

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Speaker 3: like there is hope and it's so like important because

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Speaker 3: this is some very like hot button topics right now,

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Speaker 3: like we have a alleged sex trafficking rink at alleged

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Speaker 3: money laundering scheme, and I feel like these have just

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Speaker 3: been topics in the news with like a bunch of

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Speaker 3: other things going on right now, So it just kind

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Speaker 3: of feels like it's falling into place, like there are

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Speaker 3: things that are being done that it's like, Okay, that's

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Speaker 3: actually one on our side finally, is what it felt like.

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Speaker 2: And again, I know that for those that might just

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Speaker 2: be Finding the podcast. It was mentioned earlier at top

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Speaker 2: that there's a civil lawsuit against Robert. There's actually quite

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Speaker 2: a few lawsuits that he's involved in, and the Labash

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Speaker 2: kind of church Kalia is involved in one of them. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: she can't speak a whole lot to that, but when

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Speaker 2: you go into a civil lawsuit, you know you can't

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Speaker 2: help but feel it starts to be like he said,

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Speaker 2: she said, how much evidence is going to be aful

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Speaker 2: to be provided? And so there's a vulnerability in that.

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Speaker 2: And so just from an outsider looking in and just

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Speaker 2: from a bystander, it's like, obviously we know so much more,

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Speaker 2: but maybe the full faith of like what the outcome

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Speaker 2: could be. I mean, knowing that that trial keeps getting

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Speaker 2: pushed out, it's frustrating me because I'm like, what's happening

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Speaker 2: with this? It was supposed to happen in July, got

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Speaker 2: pushed October. So to see something like this, this is

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Speaker 2: like on a different scale. It's like not to minimalize

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Speaker 2: the civil lawsuit because that's big and it's people that

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Speaker 2: were affected by this person and by this organization that

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Speaker 2: have the strength to come forward like it's that's a

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Speaker 2: big move for this group of people to be making.

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Speaker 2: But on top of that, for just like the Federal

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Speaker 2: Bureau of Investigations to say, oh, no, there's enough here

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Speaker 2: for us to go off of to go and raid

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Speaker 2: this property. And there's a video out there, I mean

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Speaker 2: that video of the SWAT team showing up on the

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Speaker 2: side and being like, you need to come out, And

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Speaker 2: the fact that like the gate was broken down smashed in.

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, so either they weren't coming out. Oh.

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen the actual video of it, but sounds

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Speaker 3: like a movie scene.

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Speaker 4: It really does. But I mean, we're really here.

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Speaker 3: And one thing I will say is like it's also

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Speaker 3: so validating because I think for a big purse of time,

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Speaker 3: especially within my own communities of like the dancers and

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Speaker 3: my friends that have stayed behind and like told their

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Speaker 3: own perspective and their own stories, which felt like trying

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Speaker 3: to invalidate, you know, my truth and the things that

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Speaker 3: I have seen and the things I've come out and

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Speaker 3: said publicly through the documentary and through this podcast. It's

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Speaker 3: like that had came into question a lot. And so

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Speaker 3: seeing this where it's like, no, the FBI agrees there's

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Speaker 3: a charge that needs to be dropped, and so I'm

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Speaker 3: like it was just also so validating, like see, I'm

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Speaker 3: not just up here, and I think the accusation that

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Speaker 3: a lot of them would make it's like, oh, it's

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Speaker 3: a money grab. I'm like, no, this isn't about money.

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Speaker 3: This is about criminal activity.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. And also we heard stories that allegedly the narrative

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Speaker 2: on the inside at the church was that they're jealous

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Speaker 2: of your relationship with God or your success and all

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Speaker 2: of this stuff, which is just so bizarre. But like

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Speaker 2: all I could hope is that like they understand that,

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Speaker 2: like the FBI does not go raiding a property without

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Speaker 2: sufficient enough evidence or a case that they think that

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Speaker 2: they can make against someone that like you were saying,

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Speaker 2: your friends that did stay back in there and that

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Speaker 2: are still in there, and that hopefully they can see

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Speaker 2: that and that they will again, I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: going to be turned off right away.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of deprogramming that would need to happen,

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Speaker 2: and maybe denial too. I mean, when it all went down,

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Speaker 2: I was thinking a lot about you and the story

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Speaker 2: that you shared of that light bulb moment of like

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Speaker 2: hang on. Everyone's been kind of saying all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Then it's like we started to feel it and then

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Speaker 2: all these pieces start to align, and it was just

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Speaker 2: that moment that you're like, hang on, the sain't right

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Speaker 2: and I just can't help but wonder if that's like

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Speaker 2: maybe hopefully what's going on in some of the dancers

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Speaker 2: that stayed Back's mind. This is forgive me for I

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Speaker 2: have followed. We'll be right back. Welcome back to forgive

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Speaker 2: me for I have followed.

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Speaker 3: Like unfortunately, it feels like I would assume some people's

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Speaker 3: rock bottoms and it's like, this is hopefully the wake

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Speaker 3: up call they need it, hopefully the moment where they're like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm in handcuffs or I'm seeing the people that I

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Speaker 3: look up to in handcuffs, what's really happening? But I

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Speaker 3: just I do also know like the reality of how

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Speaker 3: it can get spun. Like there's been times where we

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Speaker 3: were sitting in sermons where they will use that as

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Speaker 3: I think, don't quote me if I'm wrong, but I

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Speaker 3: think it was like Peter who went to jail in

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Speaker 3: the Bible, and like they would talk about that a lot,

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Speaker 3: and like how much you're willing to lay down for

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Speaker 3: your face? So I'm like, I don't want it to

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Speaker 3: just get turned into no, we're just being tested again,

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Speaker 3: and you know, still follow me even though I'm I

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Speaker 3: may be going away to federal prison. But I am

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Speaker 3: hoping that there will at least be more questions than

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Speaker 3: answers for the people that have stayed so they can

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Speaker 3: know like, Okay, maybe I need to do something else.

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Speaker 2: Cautiously optimistic, and.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of family members right now

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Speaker 3: too who, like I've thought about, like the Wilkings and

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Speaker 3: the Rainos.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just hoping that they will get some sort

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Speaker 2: of communication, some contact, because I also had heard that

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Speaker 2: people have just gone dark since the documentary or they

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Speaker 2: hear from them every once in a blue moon and

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Speaker 2: then they've gone dark for six months or whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: five months, four months. But overall, I do have to

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Speaker 2: just say, it's this flood of emotion, but like it's happening.

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Speaker 2: It's freaking happening. And that is something that I feel

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Speaker 2: like again, all the incoming calls, all the outgoing calls

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Speaker 2: that we made and the conversations that we had that

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Speaker 2: we wanted to kind of let the audience in on

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Speaker 2: some of those check ins that we've had with people

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Speaker 2: that we have previously interviewed on this podcast, people that

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Speaker 2: have been affected by this church directly or indirectly.

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Speaker 3: So with all that, as the news broke on Friday,

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Speaker 3: we wanted to reconnect with some of our earlier guests,

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Speaker 3: so we have Angela here to come and share her

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Speaker 3: reaction with us.

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Speaker 2: Angela was one of our guests that was involved in

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Speaker 2: a previous cult. She met her ex husband there, James

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Speaker 2: b Dash Derek, who is now currently married to Miranda Derek,

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Speaker 2: and so they are still in the church, and so

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Speaker 2: she had opened up to us about her experience in

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Speaker 2: her previous church and what it's like no longer having

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Speaker 2: contact or that relationship for her son and his father James,

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Speaker 2: and now our chat Angela.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Angela, thank you so much for coming on the

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Speaker 4: pod again.

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Speaker 2: We just wanted to touch base and see how you

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Speaker 2: were feeling and what your day's been like, knowing that

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Speaker 2: ours has been so crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I've been getting a lot of people reaching out

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Speaker 1: to me, especially on Instagram. So me and Jayden actually

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Speaker 1: found out when we were driving. I started getting notifications

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Speaker 1: on my Instagram and then we opened it up. We

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Speaker 1: stopped the car and I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this is actually happening now. And first thing Jayden's was like,

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Speaker 1: can my dad be a good dad now? Is he

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Speaker 1: gonna come back? And so you know, we had a

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Speaker 1: conversation about that first, and then we kind of looked

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Speaker 1: into everything and I was like, it was so emotional

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Speaker 1: for me because to see that something can actually happen

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Speaker 1: in situations like this, it's so it gives you like

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Speaker 1: a lot of hope, you know, because usually the separation

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Speaker 1: of church and state and people being over a certain age,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard for us. We couldn't get anything done

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Speaker 1: in our case. So to see that something is happening,

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Speaker 1: it's so public, it's just it's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Really appreciate hearing you say the feeling of hope it gave,

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Speaker 3: because it made me think about like your situation and

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Speaker 3: like doing this podcast and hearing from other people that

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Speaker 3: have had something similar happen and it not.

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Speaker 4: Going anywhere or going very far.

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Speaker 3: So like, you know, I'm glad for just wanting to

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Speaker 3: take a stand for it, because there's days where I'm

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Speaker 3: like was it even worth it because I just felt

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Speaker 3: so second guessed.

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Speaker 4: But I'm like, I really like hearing from you.

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Speaker 3: It's like, no, you feel like because I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I feel like there's hope too, like there was a

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Speaker 3: reason for everything that like I've gone through and it's

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Speaker 3: like I just, you know, thank you for sharing that

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Speaker 3: because I was thinking about you guys who like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't with Like I'm glad at least here there's

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Speaker 3: something being done, and I hope it serves as an example.

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Speaker 1: And so publicly too, Like that's amazing part. It's worldwide,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not something where it's hidden underwhere nobody's going

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Speaker 1: to hear about it. Like even other pastors that are

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing, there's no way they're not going

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Speaker 1: to hear about this also, so hopefully it's an example

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Speaker 1: and it scares them a little bit to you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of calm down with this kind of behavior.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it just takes the one to see that there

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Speaker 2: is consequences for the actions to make somebody else think

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Speaker 2: whether or not it's going to be worth it. And

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Speaker 2: you know, in this particular case, the strength of so

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Speaker 2: many people. I called Callia and I said thank you

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Speaker 2: and thank you to you to Angela, because it's women

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Speaker 2: like you, it's people like everyone that participated in this project.

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Speaker 2: It's terrifying. It's terrifying to say, Hey, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: take the most vulnerable time of my life or my

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Speaker 2: personal life that likes nobody else's business really, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to put it out there so I can raise

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Speaker 2: awareness for people. That's really freaking hard. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I would have been able to do it and.

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Speaker 4: To continue to do it.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's really like a testament to you, Angela,

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Speaker 3: for you went and decided it's time to like publicly

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Speaker 3: speak your peace on what happened to you, because you

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Speaker 3: know it all relates any If you guys haven't heard

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Speaker 3: our previous episodes as Angela, please go back and give

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Speaker 3: it a listen, because you gave some really amazing insights

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Speaker 3: that I have appreciated and thought about since we've had

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Speaker 3: conversations on here.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you. You know what I feel like. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: this happened at the perfect time. So very recently I

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Speaker 1: had some family members go to some food fest at

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Speaker 1: church because a food truck. He was there.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I do remember him having a food truck.

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Speaker 4: He was there.

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Speaker 1: He was there, Oh my goodness, and one of my

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Speaker 1: cousins was there and she ran to him. She used

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Speaker 1: to go to the church with us when she was little,

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Speaker 1: And you know, it was kind of upsetting to hear

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Speaker 1: that he still is out there and the little kids

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Speaker 1: are grown ups now and they're there part of it,

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Speaker 1: and I was kind of like, you know, it sucks

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Speaker 1: that he's still all doing this. So to hear that

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Speaker 1: there are consequences for people, I feel like came at

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Speaker 1: the right time. Honestly, it really does give me a

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Speaker 1: little bit of hope.

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Speaker 2: But also the confidence that he has. And this is

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Speaker 2: just like again, when there's no consequences for the actions

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Speaker 2: that somebody has and they just go about their life

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Speaker 2: like nothing's happened, And for those that experienced those abuses

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Speaker 2: and are victims of those people, it's like that's going

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Speaker 2: to affect them for the rest of their lives. And

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Speaker 2: if you're just out living your best life and your

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Speaker 2: food truck and running your church and still taking advantage

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Speaker 2: of people, it's like, it's just really the dumbest down

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Speaker 2: way to say it. It's not fair. And so today,

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Speaker 2: having some sort of motion in the right direction that

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Speaker 2: there is justice for wrongdoers like that, like the pastor

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Speaker 2: of your church, it's a good day. When we returned

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Speaker 2: the conclusion of our conversation with Angela, this is forgive

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Speaker 2: me for I have followed.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Here

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Speaker 3: is the conclusion of our conversation with Angela.

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Speaker 2: Angela, I do want to ask from the experience obviously

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Speaker 2: with Jaden, and I'm with him on this in the

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Speaker 2: hopes that James and all these other people will kind

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Speaker 2: of snap out of it and then he can start

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Speaker 2: being a part of his life again. Any thoughts and

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Speaker 2: feelings for other people that may have been experiencing this today,

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Speaker 2: Like what were kind of your thoughts throughout it?

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Speaker 1: You know, it is exciting everything that's happening, but I

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Speaker 1: do know it's not as easy as Robert getting arrested

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Speaker 1: and then people opening their eyes and they're going to

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Speaker 1: come and be reunited with their family today. Like I

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Speaker 1: know that's not the reality. So I did have to

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Speaker 1: explain that to Jaden as well. It's a start, and

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Speaker 1: it's an amazing start that a lot of people don't get.

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Speaker 1: But I do know it's still going to take some time.

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Speaker 1: I know they're probably all panicking, not knowing what to

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Speaker 1: do and not knowing what to tell them members or

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Speaker 1: to get them to believe, to make them continue to follow.

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Speaker 1: But hopefully through this their eyes start to open. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure money is not going to be the same. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure jobs are not going to be the same. A

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Speaker 1: lot of things are going to fall apart from the

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Speaker 1: inside out, and it's going to affect every area of

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Speaker 1: their life. So hopefully that kind of forces them to

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Speaker 1: want to take a second look at everything and reconnect

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Speaker 1: with people, and hopefully, you know, in Jaden's case, that

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Speaker 1: happens for him. But I did have to tell them, okay,

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Speaker 1: like I don't want him to get his hopes of it.

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Speaker 1: It's still going to take some time, but it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing start and we finally have some real hope right now.

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Speaker 3: No, that's so beautifully put because it is very true.

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Speaker 3: Like it's difficult and it takes time. As the amount

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Speaker 3: of time that it took to put in, I feel

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Speaker 3: like it almost takes to like de brainwash.

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Speaker 4: Yourself, like get those like thoughts out of your mind.

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Speaker 4: But I agree with what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully this does give them an opportunity to take a

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Speaker 3: second look and seeing the hard consequences, because I think

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Speaker 3: that was a big time talking point for the people

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Speaker 3: that stayed in Chicina, was like if something was really wrong,

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Speaker 3: like don't you think the cops would have came? It's

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Speaker 3: an eye opener and hopefully like this, it's an opportunity,

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Speaker 3: like you said, like it's an opportunity for them to

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Speaker 3: see it and take a hard look. And like I,

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Speaker 3: you know, I still have so many questions, but like

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that mindset of being like, hey, like this

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Speaker 3: is great, but like let's not forget it might not

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Speaker 3: be the sunshine and rainbows, and like everyone goes back

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Speaker 3: to their family afterwards, because it's still a process of healing.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: And Libby said it today, He's like, I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: going about the day cautiously optimistic, and it's a it's

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Speaker 2: a good day because that's that is the most forward

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Speaker 2: progression that has been felt in a long time. And

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Speaker 2: so Angela, thank you so much. I know this was

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Speaker 2: so last minute for jumping on with us, and we

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Speaker 2: are so I'm going to say it too cautiously optimistic,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we'll be staying in touch, because I

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Speaker 2: also hope that for Jaden that he gets to reconnect.

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Speaker 2: And as you know, I have nothing but amazing things

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Speaker 2: to say about you. You're such an incredible mother and

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Speaker 2: a day at a time, but today is a good day.

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Speaker 1: An amazing day. It's really nice, really refreshing to see

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Speaker 1: that there's hope out there for stuff like this. I

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Speaker 1: can't I actually talked to Lacy earlier and she was

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Speaker 1: so happy, like this is something that even people from

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Speaker 1: my situation are able to call me and like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, look what's happening, Like this is what we

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Speaker 1: fought for for us, and look at what's happening for them,

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Speaker 1: Like it's amazing, it's possible, it's amazing.

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Speaker 5: Oh man, hey everyone, this is producer Aaron. You know,

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Speaker 5: y'all just real quick before we jump in, I just

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Speaker 5: want to share what my dad said to Liz because

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Speaker 5: he texted us about He say, is this a TikTok?

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Speaker 2: Cold guy?

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Speaker 5: And because he saw it on the news too. He said, so,

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Speaker 5: whenever you're wondering about the importance of you being in

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Speaker 5: that space and being in that place, because she's talking

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Speaker 5: to her. As a Netflix executive, you are effective and

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Speaker 5: needed in that space for so many reasons you can't

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Speaker 5: even number. So so proud of you and your team

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Speaker 5: and everything you have done. So I just wanted to

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Speaker 5: relate that message to you all as well, just about

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Speaker 5: what we're doing and all the work that we put

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Speaker 5: into this podcast y'all, like it really is. It's making

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Speaker 5: an impact no matter what. So just congrat y'all onto

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Speaker 5: what you all have done for this as well.

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Speaker 2: Think Sara beautiful. It's really great to connect with people,

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Speaker 2: and honestly, in the last couple of days, just reconnecting

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Speaker 2: with so many people that I haven't spoken to in

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Speaker 2: a little while, in a couple of months. And you know,

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Speaker 2: one call that I had right away was with Derek,

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Speaker 2: our director of the documentary, and it's nice to know

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Speaker 2: that people care. Like for Derek and I, it was

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Speaker 2: about helping people and providing that platform. And he got

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Speaker 2: his ass in the car and he drove to Chicaina

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Speaker 2: church and saw him that morning and wanted to just

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Speaker 2: talk to people, neighbors and see how people were feeling.

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Speaker 2: And that just is who he is. And I just

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Speaker 2: I thanked him for carrying the Wilkings. Migdahalia and Li

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Speaker 2: be you Kevin, I mean all of you guys, and

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Speaker 2: again please do listen back on some of our previous

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Speaker 2: episodes of Forgive Me For I Have Followed. We have

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Speaker 2: interviews with people, some of whom I just mentioned, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's wild.

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Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for joining us on this

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Speaker 3: bonus episode. As things continue to develop, will come back

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Speaker 3: and give you all the updates that we can. We

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Speaker 3: appreciate you guys for listening this far and this is

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Speaker 3: Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Forgive Me For I

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Speaker 3: Have Followed is a production from wv Sound, Dirty Robert

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Speaker 3: and iHeartMedia's Michael Tore podcast Network, hosted by me Kalia

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00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 3: Gray and me Jess Cossavetto. Forgive Me For I Have

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00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 3: Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson and Sophie Spencer Zavos.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Kalia Gray, myself, Wilmer Valderrama, Leo

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Speaker 2: Klem and Aaron Burlison at wv Sound.

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Speaker 3: This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features ainal

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Speaker 3: music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts

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Speaker 3: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio apps, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 3: you listen to your favorite shows,