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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then Rounoro with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here on the Monday

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Speaker 2: edition of Balance of Power. A new weekend hand and

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Speaker 2: we're live from Washington here on Bloomberg Radio, on the

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Speaker 2: satellite radio, and on YouTube, where you can find us

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Speaker 2: every day. And I know that you are finding us there.

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Speaker 2: This is something pretty cool that we have going from

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Speaker 2: Washington to New York. Live streams from our studios. Find

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Speaker 2: us on YouTube search Bloomberg Business News Live. We've got

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Speaker 2: a lot to talk about here, a lot to talk

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Speaker 2: about after a wild weekend on the campaign trail, certainly

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Speaker 2: on the golf course. And we have heard from Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump this morning in an interview with Fox News Digital,

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Speaker 2: the first comment from the former president since what is

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Speaker 2: now being billed as a second attempted assassination attempt knowing

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Speaker 2: the suspect, from what we understand from authorities, did not

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Speaker 2: even fire his weapon, but was apparently getting to be

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Speaker 2: in a position to do so, Donald Trump telling Fox

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Speaker 2: News Digital quote, he accused gunman believed the rhetoric of

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Speaker 2: Biden and Harris, and he acted on it. Unquote. He

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Speaker 2: wanted to say, their rhetoric is causing me to be

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Speaker 2: shot at when I am the one who is going

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Speaker 2: to save the country and they are the ones that

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Speaker 2: are destroying the country, both from the inside and out.

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Speaker 2: He went on to say, they use highly inflammatory language.

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Speaker 2: I can use it too, far better than they can,

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Speaker 2: but I don't unquote. We heard from Joe Biden, of course,

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Speaker 2: the president that Donald Trump is talking about. He spoke

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Speaker 2: with reporters in the driveway on his way out of

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Speaker 2: the White House earlier. Let's listen with one thing.

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Speaker 3: I want to make clear. The Service needs more help,

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Speaker 3: and I think that Congress should respond to their needs

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Speaker 3: if they fact need more services. So that's what we're

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Speaker 3: going to be talking about.

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Speaker 1: More personnel. They need more money.

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Speaker 4: What kind of helps me?

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Speaker 3: And I think they need some more person I think

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Speaker 3: they may need. They made their deciding whether they need

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Speaker 3: more personnel or not.

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Speaker 2: We'll see what the Secret Service needs. As Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: today plans to meet with the acting Director of the

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Speaker 2: Secret Service, and there is news that Joe Biden has

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Speaker 2: directed his team. This is, according to a statement from

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Speaker 2: the White House to continue to quote ensure that Secret

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Speaker 2: Service has every resource, capability and protective measure necessary unquote

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Speaker 2: to ensure Donald Trump's safety. That's according to a statement

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Speaker 2: from the President, knowing the trouble with which the Secret

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Speaker 2: Service has had securing golf courses for Donald Trump, knowing

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Speaker 2: as well that he does not get the same level

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Speaker 2: of security protection that the sitting president of the United

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Speaker 2: States gets. And this is where we start our conversation

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Speaker 2: with Laura Davison, who had a working weekend Bloomberg Politics

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Speaker 2: editor pulled out of a Sunday slumber. I'm guessing, Laura,

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Speaker 2: once again, with news like this at just the news cycle,

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Speaker 2: if you can speak to this broadly that Americans have

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Speaker 2: had to endure going back two months from Butler, Pennsylvania

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Speaker 2: to now having spent the weekend talking about Springfield, Ohio

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Speaker 2: and the madness the rhetoric is really something to consider here, Laura,

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Speaker 2: What should voters do with this information? Does it actually

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Speaker 2: impact the race itself?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think that the broad takeaway here is

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Speaker 5: that this race has been so calamitous, so disruptive. So

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Speaker 5: you know, I hate to use the word, but unprecedented,

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Speaker 5: and just all of the different inflection points there have been,

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Speaker 5: just you know, going back to mid July when the

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Speaker 5: first assassination attempt occurred. You know what's really interesting is

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Speaker 5: how much this is now just becoming a political event

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Speaker 5: versus a security event, versus you know, sort of viewed

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Speaker 5: as a tragedy. We saw this with the first assassination attempt.

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Speaker 5: There was a couple days of morning reflection thinking about,

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Speaker 5: you know, what does all this mean? But then it

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Speaker 5: would quickly pivoted to Biden dropping out of the race.

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Speaker 5: You know, in this situation because you know, the gunman

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Speaker 5: didn't even get a chance to fire his weapon. You know,

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Speaker 5: it quickly became a political event. You saw both Democrats

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Speaker 5: and Trump himself in his comments, both sides are you know,

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Speaker 5: continuing with fundraising, continuing with sort of this heated rhetoric,

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Speaker 5: you know, at each other.

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Speaker 2: Right the the statements from Donald Trump that I just

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Speaker 2: brought to our viewers and listeners here from Fox News Digital.

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Speaker 2: If he is going to be blaming Donald Trump or

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris for this, this campaign is

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Speaker 2: about to take on a whole new course, isn't it.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I mean this is you know, you kind of

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Speaker 5: really see that the knives are out, you know, and

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Speaker 5: that you know, after the first assassination at temp we

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Speaker 5: saw Democrats pull their ads from the airwaves. We saw

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Speaker 5: and you and you hear you know, both Harris and

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Speaker 5: Biden and their statements saying, look, there is no room

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Speaker 5: for political violence. But Trump is turning up the heat

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Speaker 5: a little bit saying, look, I can be inflammatory too.

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Speaker 5: I'm not you know, that's not really true. Trump is

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Speaker 5: you know, had multiple occasions of using inflammatory language, you know,

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Speaker 5: most recently at the debate just last week.

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Speaker 2: Even at that debate, he did suggest that it was

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Speaker 2: democratic rhetoric that led to the first shooting in Butler, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: You might have seen the tweet from Elon Musk. I

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Speaker 2: don't know your thoughts on this, Laura, but this has

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Speaker 2: been since deleted. Elon Musk posting on his own platform

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Speaker 2: X quote and no one is even trying to assassinate

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Speaker 2: Biden and Kamala with an emoji of someone thinking here

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Speaker 2: a thought balloon. What does this do to the national

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Speaker 2: rhetoric around this campaign?

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Speaker 5: It doesn't turn it down, that's for sure. And you saw,

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Speaker 5: you know, the White House respond to this statement. You know,

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Speaker 5: there is a sort of a clear, uh you know,

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Speaker 5: sort of concern that's building, you know, all around it.

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Speaker 5: You know, what does political violence look like? You know,

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four, you know, we've already seen two

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Speaker 5: examples of this, and you know clearly this also raches

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Speaker 5: questions about you know, Trump's protection himself. But there is

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Speaker 5: a lot of concern going into election day. After election day,

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Speaker 5: you know that there will be more violence, which is

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Speaker 5: a really, really scary thought.

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Speaker 2: It really is. We're not going to talk about this

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Speaker 2: all day today, but obviously this is a major story

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Speaker 2: and one that we're covering here from a hard news standpoint.

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Speaker 2: Gun charges have been filed against this individual, and will

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Speaker 2: of course let you know as we learn more. We'll

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Speaker 2: get into it with our panel later. But I wanted

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Speaker 2: to just start with Laura here on this and I

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Speaker 2: appreciate your work and help on this matter. Laura. It's

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Speaker 2: great to see you. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken

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Speaker 6: Remember it was nine weeks ago yesterday that Joe and

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Speaker 6: I were in Milwaukee in the aftermath of the first

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Speaker 6: attempted assassination against Donald Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania, when, of

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Speaker 6: course he actually was shot and the assailant was killed.

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Speaker 6: Then yesterday on a golf course in Florida, just over

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Speaker 6: nine weeks later, with a different opponent now Kamala Harris

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Speaker 6: running against Donald Trump instead of Joe Biden. Because yes,

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Speaker 6: that much has changed in such a short period of time,

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Speaker 6: there was a threat against Donald Trump's life again, although

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Speaker 6: he escaped unscathed and the suspect was apprehended. It raises

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Speaker 6: the same questions, though, how is it possible that the

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Speaker 6: former president and Republican nominee to be president once more

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Speaker 6: had a gunman within just a few hundred yards away

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Speaker 6: from him? And the Secret Service, of course, is in

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Speaker 6: the spotlight here. Even President Biden today, when addressing this event,

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Speaker 6: said they need more resources.

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Speaker 3: With one thing, I want to make clear, the Service

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Speaker 3: needs more help, and I think that Congress should respond

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Speaker 3: to their needs if they fact need more service. So

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Speaker 3: I to what we're going to be talking about, the.

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Speaker 4: More personality, need more money, what kind of helped me?

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Speaker 3: I think Green needs some more person I think they

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Speaker 3: made their deciding whether they need more personnel.

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Speaker 2: Or not, either money or personnel. Maybe it's both, Kayley.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the big questions coming off of this

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Speaker 2: second event, what resources the Secret Service needs to protect

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Knowing that a golf course can be a

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Speaker 2: very difficult setting to do this job to begin with,

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Speaker 2: but also following word from Joe Biden that he would

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Speaker 2: make every resource available, as he said, resource capability and

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Speaker 2: protective measure necessary to ensure Donald Trump's safety. It's where

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Speaker 2: we start our conversation with Brian Gant, Assistant Professor of

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Speaker 2: cybersecurity at Maryville University and importantly a former member of

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Speaker 2: the Secret Service who helped to provide protection for Presidents

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Speaker 2: Obama and Clinton. Brian, welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great

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Speaker 2: to see you here. Donald Trump was very quick to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge the success the Secret Service had in foiling what

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Speaker 2: they are calling a possible attempt to assassination but of

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Speaker 2: course he still got within three to five hundred yards

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Speaker 2: of the former president. Was this a success or a

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Speaker 2: failure for the Secret Service?

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me first of all, and I would

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Speaker 4: say anytime you know you can walk away, you know,

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Speaker 4: with your health and your safety, I view it as

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Speaker 4: a success. Are there things to learn from it? I'm

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Speaker 4: sure the investigation will will yield that out. But you know,

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Speaker 4: absolutely as a president Joe Biden mentioned, you know resources,

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Speaker 4: and this is something that I've harped on in previous

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Speaker 4: interviews as well. The Secret Service is a relatively small

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Speaker 4: agency in terms of agents, I believe maybe three thousand

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Speaker 4: or so worldwide. And so when you think of the

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Speaker 4: mission that you have and you think of protecting sites

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Speaker 4: like the first assassination attempt or sites like the golf course,

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Speaker 4: these types of sites all have a lot of different

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Speaker 4: areas where you can have a shooter's nests, as you

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Speaker 4: say on this particular case, areas of egress and ingress.

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Speaker 4: And so you have to make sure that you have

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Speaker 4: the appropriate resources to provide that three sixty coverage around

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Speaker 4: the sites that you saw yesterday.

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Speaker 6: But what scaling up of resources would actually provide coverage

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Speaker 6: for say an eighteen whole open air golf course. Realistically,

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Speaker 6: I just wonder if there is enough staff in personnel

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Speaker 6: in the world to make this a completely fool proof

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Speaker 6: scenario for the former president, who of course golfs a lot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, nothing is full proof, but I think the sheriff

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Speaker 4: mentioned this before in his press conference. He talked about

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Speaker 4: how he felt his own or he knows that if

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Speaker 4: the former president Trump doesn't have or he's not a

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Speaker 4: sitting president, right, and so he doesn't have the the

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Speaker 4: the cadre of resources that you might see Joe Biden have,

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Speaker 4: and even with his threat level being high, you know

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Speaker 4: he still doesn't. Everyone knows from the president in town.

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Speaker 4: You see the big motor k, you see the number

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Speaker 4: of local resources, state and federal police. I'm not saying

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Speaker 4: that it has to be to that degree, right, but

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Speaker 4: there has to be some some middle ground. And with

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Speaker 4: that middle ground there there's a lot of resources from

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Speaker 4: the local and state level that are involved with that

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Speaker 4: three sixty coverage. You're tapping into the county departments, the

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Speaker 4: sheriff's apartments, the local pds. You're asking for mark units

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Speaker 4: to be at a different areas so you can kind

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Speaker 4: of deter someone who could possibly hide in the bushes.

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Speaker 4: But that takes a lot of resources, that takes a

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Speaker 4: lot of financial responsibility, and it takes a lot of

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Speaker 4: planning logistically, and I think that's kind of where we

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Speaker 4: are in terms of copycatter artists and things of that

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Speaker 4: nature that we see kind of coming up the woodworks.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump today is blaming rhetoric from Democrats for what

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Speaker 2: happened here. Brian, that's I realized something that you can't

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Speaker 2: comment on because it's pretty difficult to connect the dots

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Speaker 2: directly to an attack like this. But he's also suggested

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Speaker 2: since the attack in Butler that President Biden has essentially

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Speaker 2: slow walked this issue, that he hasn't been given the

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Speaker 2: resources that he needs despite requests. Can you just speak

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Speaker 2: to the way the service works, how a request would

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Speaker 2: be honored like that, and following what we saw in Butler,

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Speaker 2: why he didn't have additional security.

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Speaker 4: You know, there are a lot of layers that go

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Speaker 4: into getting different resources, and a lot of those layers, ironically,

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Speaker 4: you know, fall on some of White House staff as well.

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Speaker 4: You know, at the end of the day, President from

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Speaker 4: President Trump is conducting the campaign and there's often a

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Speaker 4: kind of a tug of war, if you will, between

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Speaker 4: staff and security. You know, if the Secret Service had

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Speaker 4: their way, President Trump wouldn't go into any open air areas.

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Speaker 4: He would always be in hard areas. He wouldn't do

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Speaker 4: any rope lines, wouldn't do the things that as a

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Speaker 4: security professional, you know, put him in danger. But staff,

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Speaker 4: and understandably so, they want him to be seen. They

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Speaker 4: want him to be a man of the people. They

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Speaker 4: want him to reach out and shake hands, and so

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Speaker 4: you know that tug of war is a real thing,

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Speaker 4: and so there may have to be a little bit

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Speaker 4: more on the security side in terms of those negotiations

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Speaker 4: as you go from site to site and stop to

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Speaker 4: stop in the rest of his campaign.

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Speaker 6: Well, Brian, it's not just the slow walking allegations that

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump is making about President Biden, but also rhetoric

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Speaker 6: that he says both President Biden and Vice President Kamala

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Speaker 6: Harris have been using that he said this particular would

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Speaker 6: be shooter believed in that this is the reason for

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Speaker 6: the attempts on his life, especially given your focus now

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Speaker 6: on cybersecurity. To what extent should we be factoring rhetoric

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Speaker 6: into this and the kind of theories that can be

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Speaker 6: propagated propagated online through social media, and how hard that

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Speaker 6: could be if you're the Secret Service or another charge

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Speaker 6: with protecting a candidate or former president to filter through

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Speaker 6: when there's so much of it out there.

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Speaker 4: You know, this is where I think interagency plays a

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Speaker 4: critical role. You know, I spent five of my federal

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Speaker 4: government years with the FBI as an intel analysts before

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Speaker 4: I became a Secret Service agent and combing you know,

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Speaker 4: those sites, looking at looking for the rhetoric, you know,

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Speaker 4: whether it be homegrown militias or international aspects. They enter

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Speaker 4: agency communication and uh that that communication filtering to agents

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Speaker 4: on the ground, agents on the shift, professional staff within

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Speaker 4: the organization, providing great intelligence, real time threat intelligence. I

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Speaker 4: think will be very very important moving forward in terms

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Speaker 4: of you know, conjecture or the walk in the back

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Speaker 4: of whether or not President Biden is offering in those resources.

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Speaker 4: I think the Service is focused and rightly so, on

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Speaker 4: the facts that hand, and hopefully the different layers of government,

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Speaker 4: hopefully they can get through some of this red tape

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Speaker 4: and provide those agents on the ground with what they need.

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Speaker 2: Mister Khan, it's great to have you back, Assistant Professor

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Speaker 2: of cyber Security, Maryville University of former Secret Service member Brian.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us again here on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 2: We did not anticipate having a reason like this to

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Speaker 2: call you again so quickly.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, CarPlay and

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Speaker 1: then roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app Listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live

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Speaker 1: on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lions as we try to

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Speaker 2: pick up the pieces and not only understand what happened yesterday,

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Speaker 2: but where this investigation is headed, speaking to many of

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Speaker 2: the issues we just discussed with Brian Gant Palm Beach

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Speaker 2: County Sheriff Rick Bradshaw in a news briefing yesterday.

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Speaker 7: Let's listen, golf course is surrounded by shrubbery, so when

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Speaker 7: somebody gets into the shrubbery, they're pretty much out of sight,

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Speaker 7: all right. And at this level that he is at

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Speaker 7: right now, he's not the sitting president. If he was,

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Speaker 7: we would have had this hire golf course around it.

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Speaker 8: Well.

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Speaker 7: Because he's not. The security is limited to the areas

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Speaker 7: that the Secret Service deems possible. The Secret Service did

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Speaker 7: exactly what they should have done. They provided exactly what

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Speaker 7: the protection should have been, and their agent did a

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Speaker 7: fantastic job.

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Speaker 6: Palm Beach County Sheriff Rick Bradshaw and if you're joining

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Speaker 6: us on Bloomberg Television or on YouTube, he saw standing

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Speaker 6: just behind him in that news conference. Our next guest,

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Speaker 6: Dave Arenberg, who is the Palm Beach County State Attorney,

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Speaker 6: is joining us here on Bloomberg TV and radio. Dave,

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Speaker 6: It's always good to have you, even despite circumstances like this.

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Speaker 6: We understand now that the would be assailant has been

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Speaker 6: charged after appearing in federal court today with possessing a

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Speaker 6: firearm despite being a convicted felon, as well as possessing

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Speaker 6: a firearm with an obliterated serial number. But are more

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Speaker 6: charges possible here?

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Speaker 9: You know it's possible because these charges saw on. The

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Speaker 9: firearm charges are the lowest hanging fruit in that I

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Speaker 9: think they're the easiest to prove. You don't need to

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Speaker 9: show intent. You just have to show that he's an

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Speaker 9: ex fellon check and that he was in possession of

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Speaker 9: a firearm. Check also for the second charge of obliterating

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Speaker 9: the serial number. I mean it is what it is.

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Speaker 9: Those are good charges. They can catch up to ten

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Speaker 9: years in prison per charge, and they'll keep him in

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Speaker 9: lockdown in jail pending trial because the beds are making

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Speaker 9: the argument to the magistrate that this guy is a

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Speaker 9: threat to the community, is a danger, and so he's

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Speaker 9: not going to get out before trial. And I do

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Speaker 9: expect that there may be other charges forth coming, perhaps

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Speaker 9: aggravated assault with a firearm against a federal law enforcement officer.

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Speaker 9: According to reports, he pointed his ar Ak forty seven

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Speaker 9: style rifle at a Secret Service agent. That'll catch you

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Speaker 9: up to twenty years if they decide to pursue that charge.

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Speaker 2: Wow, we heard from your governor, Ron DeSantis, who says, quote,

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Speaker 2: we're going to do a state level investigation. Asked in

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Speaker 2: a news conference a short time ago by reporters this morning,

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Speaker 2: he says, quote, we do believe there were multiple violations

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Speaker 2: of state law. Dave, what's the governor talking about in

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Speaker 2: terms of a state run investigation, knowing the FBI is

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Speaker 2: already at this how will it work? Well?

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Speaker 9: He knows how to capture headlines. I think he's referring

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Speaker 9: to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement under his control,

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Speaker 9: which is a very professional law enforcement agency. And I

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Speaker 9: guess they're going to be doing a separate investigation that's

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Speaker 9: in addition to the investigation by the Secret Service, and

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Speaker 9: in addition to the investigation by Congress, by partisan investigation

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Speaker 9: that incorporates the first attempted assassination. So this is just

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Speaker 9: yet another layer of investigations. And I'm sure you know

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Speaker 9: it'll be a popular move in.

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Speaker 6: And does that make a case like this inherently more

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Speaker 6: complicated if you have so many different players seeking similar answers, Dave?

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Speaker 6: Or is it actually helpful to have state and federal

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Speaker 6: and congressional officials all involved?

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Speaker 9: Well, Kayley, the investigation by DeSantis and by Congress is

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Speaker 9: not as to whom shot or fired the gun. It's

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Speaker 9: how did it get to that point, what breakdowns occurred

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Speaker 9: within the Secret Service. They're trying to fix the issues

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Speaker 9: within Secret Service, and that's why the Feds are better

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Speaker 9: equip that then the state. Now, to my knowledge, DeSantis

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Speaker 9: is not duplicating the federal investigation of this particular crime

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Speaker 9: because there's not gonna be state charges here. This is

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Speaker 9: a federal case where there will be federal charges. So

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Speaker 9: I think what Governor's stantus is talking about is to

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Speaker 9: investigate how someone was able to breach the shrubbery the

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Speaker 9: property of mar Lago without secrets, excuse me, the golf

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Speaker 9: club without Secret Service knowing about it. So you know,

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Speaker 9: some would call that political, others would call it smart politics.

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Speaker 9: Whatever it is, I don't think it's necessarily important right now.

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Speaker 9: I think the most important thing is to fix the

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Speaker 9: problems within the Secret Service and to also make sure

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Speaker 9: you've got the right charges against this guy so he's

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Speaker 9: held accountable to the full concent of the law.

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Speaker 2: Dave, how would this man? How would any American go

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Speaker 2: about acquiring an AK forty seven, a foreign made semi

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Speaker 2: automatic weapon, Joe.

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Speaker 9: With all the talk about we need more money for

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Speaker 9: Secret Service to guard the president and the former president,

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Speaker 9: with all the talk about the heated rhetoric in our

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Speaker 9: political culture, why are we talking about the easy access

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Speaker 9: to guns, especially weapons of war semi automatic weapons that

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Speaker 9: are used in mass shootings. Perhaps it's a little too

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Speaker 9: easy for a guy with a lengthy felony rap sheet

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Speaker 9: to get access to this a K forty seven style rifle.

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Speaker 9: Maybe we should discuss that but it doesn't seem like

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Speaker 9: the politicians want to have that conversation. They'd rather talk

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Speaker 9: about the fact that Democrats are using overheated language and

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Speaker 9: Trump's using overheated language.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Okay, well there's some of that on both sides. But

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Speaker 9: if we're not going to talk about easy access to guns,

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Speaker 9: then I think you're not really dealing with the problem.

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Speaker 6: Dave, just to have an understanding. Given one of the

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Speaker 6: crimes he was charged with as possessing a firearm despite

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Speaker 6: being a felon, it was illegal for him to have

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Speaker 6: this weapon, right, This was this was not something obtained legally.

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Speaker 6: He could have owned guns legally. As my understanding, that's correct.

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Speaker 9: But the fact is you see these weapons still on

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Speaker 9: the streets so easily accessible. He used to have a

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Speaker 9: assault weapons ban in this country, and I know that

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Speaker 9: assault weapons ban was not perfect, but the fact is

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Speaker 9: it made it harder to get access to these weapons.

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Speaker 9: We won't even have that. I mean, it's like bare minimum.

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Speaker 9: You don't even want to try at the federal level

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Speaker 9: to make it harder to get access to these weapons

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Speaker 9: of war. So, yes, we're going to prosecute him after

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Speaker 9: the fact for being a fellon in possession of an

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Speaker 9: AK forty seven style rifle. But why was he able

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Speaker 9: to get such easy access to this weapon to begin with?

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Speaker 9: And until we talk about the easily accessiful weapons like

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Speaker 9: in this case, like the case where the young man

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Speaker 9: in Georgia got access to a similar weapon and then

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Speaker 9: shot up a school, you know, then we're really doing

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Speaker 9: a disservice because you're not dealing with a full problem.

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Speaker 9: I Meanwhile, we'll do these grandstanding investigations of how the

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Speaker 9: guy got past secret service. Okay, that's fine, but you

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Speaker 9: need to talk about the guns or else you're not

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Speaker 9: talking about the whole problem.

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Speaker 2: As we spent time with Dave Ehrenberg, Palm Beach County

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Speaker 2: State Attorney, can you bring us in the room for

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Speaker 2: a moment yesterday, Dave, we just showed our viewers and

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Speaker 2: listeners a snippet of the sheriff talking. And what was

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Speaker 2: I'm sure a very stressful moment for law enforcement in

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Speaker 2: Florida yesterday. What was it like behind the scenes. How

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Speaker 2: did the sheriff do?

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Speaker 9: Sheriff was great, and he really led the coordinated effort

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Speaker 9: among local, state, and federal officials. It was like you

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Speaker 9: would imagine it. There were no turf wars. We met

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Speaker 9: beforehand around a table and discuss who would go first,

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Speaker 9: and we at the state level, we're going to go

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Speaker 9: first with a motion for pre trial detention so this

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Speaker 9: guy would not slip through the cracks and be released.

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Speaker 9: We were going to go first with the warrants to

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Speaker 9: arrest him for state crimes. And then after the press conference,

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Speaker 9: the federal officials told me that they had decided to

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Speaker 9: move forward with charges, and so we then stood down.

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Speaker 9: And that's the way it should be. There was no

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Speaker 9: turf war. We are happy to defer to the Feds.

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Speaker 9: They're the right agencies to deal with this. And so

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Speaker 9: we've been working really well together. And there is a

438
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 9: press conference again today at four pm. I won't be

439
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 9: at this one, but it will be with the sheriff

440
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 9: and federal officials. That's a type of cooperation you want

441
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 9: to see.

442
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 6: And finally, Dave, considering the investigations into the first attempt

443
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 6: on Trump's life back in July are still ongoing. There's

444
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 6: so many questions still unanswered, how quickly at least in

445
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 6: terms of the legal aspect and the actual prosecution of

446
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 6: the suspect in question. Do you expect this process will

447
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 6: play out.

448
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 9: Well as compared to the first one. You have a

449
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 9: live suspect and we want to know exactly what motivated him.

450
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 9: It's important to notice we're gonna look thoroughly through his

451
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 9: social media, through all his statements, all his posts, and

452
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 9: what we're seeing right now is a guy who has

453
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 9: a screw lowse who is very zealous about the war

454
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 9: in Ukraine, and he's on the right side of that one,

455
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 9: thinking that the Ukrainians are the good guys and the

456
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 9: Russians are the bad guys. In this one, yes, I

457
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 9: would agree, but he seems to take everything a step

458
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 9: too far. He's out there trying to recruit Afghanis to

459
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 9: fight in the war, and he's so upset about what's

460
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 9: happening that he's going to get a semi automatic weapon

461
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 9: and try, apparently to assassinate a former president. He's lost

462
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 9: his sense of morality. If able to see the good

463
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 9: in Ukrainians and the bad in Putin, but unable to

464
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 9: see how evil his alleged act would have been to

465
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 9: try to kill or President Trump. So yeah, clearly he's

466
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 9: not all there. But then again, normal people don't try

467
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 9: to commit crimes like this.

468
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 2: Dave we're out of time, but I have to ask

469
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 2: you about something that just emerged from court earlier. This

470
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: court filing about this individual finds that he apparently was

471
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: camped out waiting for Donald Trump to appear for more

472
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 2: than eleven hours, that he was in that so called

473
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 2: shooter's nest that Brian Gant referred to for eleven hours

474
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 2: according to cell phone location data obtained by the FBI.

475
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: Does that in any way change the contours of this

476
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 2: case in the way you're looking at it.

477
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 9: No, this has always been an investigation of an attempted

478
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 9: assassination of the former president. The fact that he hid

479
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 9: for eleven hours does help us understand how he got

480
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 9: by Secret Service, which all over at mar A Lago.

481
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 9: But it is a little too easy to sneak through

482
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 9: the bushes and to look through that fence. But fortunately

483
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 9: the Secret Service saw him before he could do anything,

484
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 9: and the Secret Service so the only ones according to

485
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 9: my information, that fired shots. After shots were fired against him,

486
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 9: he then ran and fled. But it does show you

487
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 9: the lengths people will go to try to do bad things.

488
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 2: It's great to see you, David. I appreciate your joining us.

489
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: I know that this is a very busy and wild

490
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: moment for your office down there. Dave Arenberg, Palm Beach

491
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: County State Attorney. We got it from the source there, Kaylee.

492
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: Really interesting and important conversation with new information here from

493
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: Dave who was in the middle of all that yesterday.

494
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

495
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

496
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: and then roun Oro with the Bloomberg Business App. You

497
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Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

498
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven.

499
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 6: Thirty Live in Washington, where, of course we are all

500
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 6: still grappling with the aftermath of another attempt on Donald

501
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 6: Trump's life yesterday, this of course the second in the

502
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 6: span of just a few months. But in the aftermath,

503
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 6: the language around it is a little bit different. Remember

504
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 6: and the eve of the RNC when Donald Trump had

505
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 6: just been shot in the ear, he talked about unity

506
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 6: and it being a moment to bring the country together.

507
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 6: What we're hearing instead from the former president this time

508
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 6: around is about rhetoric from his opponents. This just posted

509
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 6: on his true social within the last hour. The rhetoric lies,

510
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 6: as exemplified by the false statements made by Comrade Kamala

511
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 6: Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC debate, goes on,

512
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 6: has taken politics in our country to a whole new

513
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 6: level of hatred, abuse, and distrust. Donald Trump says, this

514
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 6: is a quote because of this communist left rhetoric, the

515
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 6: bullets are flying and it will only get worse.

516
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: Joe, Yeah, that post goes on quite a bit longer

517
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: in all caps, talking about the border, but that's consistent

518
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: with what Donald Trump said early to Fox News Digital.

519
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: He said the accused gunman quote, believe the rhetoric of

520
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 2: Biden and Harris, and he acted on it, going further

521
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: to say, they use highly inflammatory language. I can use

522
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: it too, far better than they can, but I don't.

523
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: And it does feel a bit different than when we

524
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: showed up in Milwaukee a day after the first attempt. Kaylee,

525
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 2: I think to your point, when there was a call

526
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: free unity and a presumption that Donald Trump would be

527
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: a changed man.

528
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, So let's play this to our political panel now.

529
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 6: Rick Davis Stone Court Capital Partner, and Jeanie Shanzino, Senior

530
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 6: Democracy Fellow with the Center for the Study of the

531
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 6: presidency in Congress are both joining us. Now, Rick, if

532
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 6: I could come to you first, is this is not

533
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 6: just former President Trump saying this having just had his

534
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 6: life threatened once again, but Republican nominee Donald Trump, who

535
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 6: is trying to win an election against Kamala Harris, is

536
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 6: this kind of blame casting helping him do that in

537
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 6: the aftermath and event of an event like this.

538
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 8: I think this is what his base would expect from him.

539
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 8: You know, he you know, levels grievances on a daily

540
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 8: basis that are targeted to everything issues related to the border,

541
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 8: the economy, and personal slights about his crowds. I mean,

542
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 8: you name it. He doesn't really discern between what is

543
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 8: a priority issue to voters and what is a priority issue.

544
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 10: To Donald Trump.

545
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 8: And so he's just feeding the beast. I think, you know,

546
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 8: he has to declare this country a broken model for

547
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 8: his model to be implemented. And so, you know, it's

548
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 8: it's all part of this overall cast of the United

549
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 8: States is in decay.

550
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: It's unruly, it's.

551
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 8: Lawless, and and so I think it fits into his narrative.

552
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 8: It's just his narrative is a very dark and and

553
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 8: and determined narrative to you know, basically broadcast the kind

554
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 8: of chaos that he would like to solve for the

555
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 8: American public.

556
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you it was not just the rhetoric

557
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: that was different after the first attempt here, Genie. The

558
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: polls were too. The reaction was significant. There was empathy

559
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: for the former president. People seemed to look at him

560
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: a bit differently. As I just mentioned, we were told

561
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: that he was a changed man. And I wonder now

562
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: that we've seen this entire race up ended and there's

563
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: been so much rhetoric under the bridge since the RNC,

564
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: if there is any impact politically speaking on the horse race.

565
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's really hard to tell. I mean, what we

566
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 11: do know is to your earlier point, the rhetoric has

567
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 11: shifted very very quickly this time from concerns and empathy

568
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 11: to the political realm. And we've seen that on both sides,

569
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 11: not just from the former president. So it's hard to

570
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 11: tell if it will have this impact. There's also another factor,

571
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 11: as Kaylee was mentioning, last time he came within hours

572
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 11: to the RNC and had a hero's welcome. He doesn't

573
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 11: have that. Although he is going to be back on

574
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 11: the campaign trail this week, I understand tomorrow, so you know,

575
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 11: we'll see if that shifts anything. And if I could

576
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 11: just go back to your interviews, which were excellent. I

577
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 11: thought it was so interesting to hear about that eleven

578
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 11: or twelve hours that this shooter sat there. And this

579
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 11: raises so many questions about the Secret Service. And again

580
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 11: we were supposed to get the report on Butler today,

581
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 11: which even Democrats like Blumenthal said would shock us. So

582
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 11: to the President's earlier point and to so much of

583
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 11: the discussion, we really need to take a look at

584
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 11: the Secret Service. They may be underfunded, they may need

585
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 11: more personnel, but something has got a shift when you

586
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 11: have these two attempts within just a few weeks, and

587
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 11: you have an attempted assassin sitting for eleven hours on

588
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 11: the side of the president's golf course within what four

589
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 11: or five hundred feet yards, rather, it's shocking to think

590
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 11: that could have happened again.

591
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 6: Well, and of course it has resulted already in a

592
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 6: change of Secret Service leadership. The first attempt, that is,

593
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 6: Kimberley Cheatle resigned in the aftermath. We have an acting

594
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 6: director now in Robert Rowe, who I guess as a

595
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 6: result of this may or may not ever be in

596
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 6: a formal directing capacity. That's a question we'll have to

597
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 6: await the answer to. If we could just go Genie

598
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 6: back to this whole notion Donald Trump is putting out

599
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 6: there about rhetoric. It's specifically him talking about Joe Biden

600
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 6: and Kamala Harris casting him as a threat to democracy,

601
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 6: and people taking that threat potentially literally, is a threat

602
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 6: that needs to be eliminated. Will this need to change

603
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 6: the way in which Kamala Harris talks about her opponent

604
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 6: on the campaign trail because she hasn't been hitting that

605
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 6: democracy lined as heavily as Joe Biden was when he

606
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 6: was the nominee.

607
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 11: That's right, that's been one of the changes since Kamala

608
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 11: Harris came on board. That was Joe Biden's mantra, Donald

609
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 11: threat is a Trump to a Trump, a threat to democracy.

610
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 11: Kamala Harris has not gone in that direction. I don't

611
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 11: think we'll see a change in her rhetoric. And to

612
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 11: your point, when you find your opponent as a threat

613
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 11: to the existence of the country, to the existence of democracy,

614
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 11: and both sides have done this, you can't be surprised

615
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 11: if somebody who is unhinged, as Dave Ehrenberg described, this

616
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 11: assassin potentially unhinged acts on that rhetoric, and that's why

617
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 11: leadership matters, and Donald Trump should not be speaking the

618
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 11: way he is this morning, and the Democrats have to

619
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 11: tone it down and we have to demand better from

620
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 11: our leaders. I'm not convinced we will see that because

621
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 11: to Rick's point, this has been happening for a long

622
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 11: time on Trump's side in the Democrat side, but that

623
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 11: leadership does matter, and we are much in need of

624
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 11: leadership which takes the rhetoric and the impact of it seriously.

625
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: Kayleie mentions the acting director of the Secret Service, we

626
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: can tell you that he has arrived in Palm Beach

627
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: and is expected to be meeting with Donald Trump today.

628
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: If that hasn't happened already, Rick, we heard from the

629
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: Speaker of the House, Joe Biden, suggesting earth that the

630
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: Secret Service needs additional resources and needs Congress to act.

631
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: He said, I think Congress should respond to their need.

632
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson on Fox News says he will demand that

633
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump have every asset available, but he argues with

634
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 2: the issue of funding. Quote, President Trump needs the most

635
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 2: coverage of anyone, he said, he's the most attacked, He's

636
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: the most threatened. But shocking it up to an issue

637
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: of manpower allocation is the idea that the speaker is

638
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 2: arguing with this being a funding problem. As someone Rick

639
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: who has worked directly with the Secret Service in managing

640
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: a presidential campaign, can you speak to that argument here

641
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: funding versus manpower.

642
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's not like there are a bunch of very

643
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 8: well trained members of the Secret Service sitting around waiting

644
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 8: to be deployed for additional service to presidential candidates. And

645
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 8: in this case Donald Trump, they come with a lot

646
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 8: of equipment, both kinetic, you know, military style weapons, communication gear, transportation.

647
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 8: I mean, it's an amazing accomplishment to have built out

648
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 8: our security services the way we have. So when you

649
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 8: talk about, you know, bolstering that to a significant degree,

650
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 8: you're talking about reassigning people from all over the country

651
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 8: into revolving groups of three different teams that cover the

652
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 8: president twenty four hours a day. And so it is

653
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 8: not an insignificant resource drain, and that comes with added

654
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 8: financial burden, and so you have to then start making

655
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 8: decisions as to whether you are going to then take

656
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 8: people off of current protectees. Remember there's an Iranian dust

657
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 8: squads operating in the United States trying to kill public officials,

658
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 8: both in the current and previous administrations. I mean, you know,

659
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 8: this is not a country that sticks its snack out

660
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 8: without taking a risk. And so yeah, I would think

661
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 8: it wouldn't be a political issue. You want more money

662
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 8: to protect President Trump, you got it. How much you need,

663
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 8: We'll put it in the continuing resolution and you know,

664
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 8: get that done next week. I just don't understand why

665
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 8: this has got to be a partisan issue. Frankly, I

666
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 8: would love to see Donald Trump, Joe Biden, and Kamala

667
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 8: Harris have a press conference and say, you know what

668
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 8: we got to do. We got to tone down the

669
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 8: political rhetoric. We've got to try and you know, calm

670
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 8: the public because this kind of political violence is not

671
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 8: healthy for our democracy or for our candidates, and it's

672
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 8: got to stop now. I mean, I would think that

673
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 8: would go farther than anything else imaginable when it comes

674
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 8: to trying to protect the lives of our political leaders.

675
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 6: All Right, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shansay know our signature

676
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 6: political panel, thank you so much, And of course, show

677
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 6: within the last twenty four hours. We have seen partisan

678
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 6: condemnation of political violence, that's for sure, and plenty from

679
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 6: both sides of the isle in Congress. It's just a

680
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 6: matter when they return tomorrow how quickly they might address it.

681
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: And what form that's true. We're going to have a

682
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: conversation as well about organized labor coming up, an important

683
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: meeting for Kamala Harris today. It's coming up next. This

684
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 2: is Bloomberg.

685
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

686
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Avo, car Play

687
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: and Theroud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on

688
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live

689
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 1: on YouTube.

690
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 6: I'm Kaylee Liones alongside Joe Matthew here in Washington, where

691
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 6: we of course are following a presidential race that has

692
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 6: had many twists and turns, another presenting itself just yesterday

693
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 6: with the attempted assassination again of Donald Trump. He of

694
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 6: course came out of that unscathed and the suspect has

695
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 6: been charged with federal gun crimes. But against that backdrop,

696
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 6: the presidential campaign continues. Donald Trump himself will make a

697
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 6: number of campaign stops this week, and Kamala Harris is

698
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 6: doing campaigning of her own today in some sense, as

699
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 6: she is participating in a meeting with the Teamsters Union,

700
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 6: of course, helmed by Sean O'Brien, who spoke at the

701
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 6: RNC in Milwaukee and to this point has withheld an

702
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 6: endorsement from the union for either candidate. Of course, after

703
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 6: speaking at the RNC, he has since dubbed Donald Trump

704
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 6: and his idea around laying off workers as economic terrorism.

705
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 6: But that doesn't mean that he's speaking in favor of

706
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 6: Harris yet to this point.

707
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that followed the interview with Elon Musk remember on

708
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: Twitter spaces, in which he credited Elon with being the

709
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: greatest cutter of all time, and they kind of laughed

710
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 2: at the idea of firing workers who were interested in organizing.

711
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: So the conversation changed a lot since Milwaukee, but they

712
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 2: still haven't met. And there was an important line that

713
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: the head of the Teamsters Union brought on CBS. He

714
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 2: said he has not endorsed Kamala Harris yet because quote,

715
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 2: you don't hire someone unless you give them an interview.

716
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: The interview is happening today, Kayle and were joined by

717
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: somebody who knows a little bit about this. Seth Harris

718
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: a frequent voice on this program when it comes to

719
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 2: matters involving labor. He's senior Fellow at the Burn Center

720
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: for Social Change at Northeastern University, former top labor advisor

721
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: to Joe Biden, in fact, former Deputy Secretary of Labor. Seth,

722
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: It's great to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg. So

723
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 2: we finally have the interview today, the Job Interview. Kamala

724
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: Harris is sitting down with the head of the Teamsters Union.

725
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 2: Will it end in an endorsement?

726
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 10: I think it will. She's actually going to meet with

727
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 10: President O'Brien and some members of the executive board, but

728
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 10: also there will be frank and file Teamsters involved in

729
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 10: the meeting, and I think it'll end up an endorsement

730
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 10: because the discussion will be about policy and on labor policy.

731
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 10: There is simply no question that Vice President Harris has

732
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 10: built a record that is far better for the Teamsters

733
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 10: Union than President Trump's record. President Trump pretty aggressively anti

734
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 10: union when he was president. Vice President Harris cast the

735
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 10: deciding vote that assured that tens of thousands of Teamsters

736
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 10: retirees would have their pensions secured strong supporter of collective

737
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 10: bargaining and worker organizing. The Biden administration, Biden Harris administration

738
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 10: appointments to the NLRB and to the Labor Department have

739
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 10: made a tremendous difference in Teamster organizing and Teamster collective bargaining.

740
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 10: And one of the biggest issues for the Teamsters is

741
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 10: what should be done when employers misclassify workers as independent

742
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 10: contractors and therefore deprived them of the minimum wage and

743
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 10: collective bargaining rights and organizing rights. Vice President Harris has

744
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 10: been very, very strong on that issue, dating back to

745
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 10: her time as an attorney general. President Trump's administration made

746
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 10: it a lot easier for employers to misclassify workers. So

747
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 10: if that's where the conversation lies, I expect the Teamsters

748
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 10: will endorse Vice President Harris.

749
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 6: But if steth all of that is true raises the

750
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 6: question of why such an endorsement hasn't happened already. If

751
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 6: she is so obviously pro labor as you describe her,

752
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 6: the fact that it has yet to happen and may

753
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 6: happen after this meeting, does that suggest there's going to

754
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 6: be an ask from the union. Do you expect they're

755
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 6: going to want something specific from a Harris administration.

756
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 10: I don't think it'll be a quid pro quo kind

757
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 10: of meeting. I take President O'Brien at his word that

758
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 10: what matters to him is allowing his members and the

759
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 10: leaders of the union alongside him to hear the views

760
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 10: of the candidates for president up close and personal, to

761
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 10: be able to ask them pointed questions about their what

762
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 10: their presidency would mean for the Teamsters Union. I think

763
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 10: that's a reasonable thing to expect. It's you know, the

764
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 10: Teamsters have said all along that they're going to wait

765
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 10: until after the conventions to make their endorsement. I think

766
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 10: this will be the last step.

767
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: Okay, that said, one point three million members. That's a

768
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: serious ground game if you activate them, regardless of the campaign,

769
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: regardless the endorsement seth How do the Teamsters use one

770
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 2: point three million members to get someone elected.

771
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 10: Well, they give a lot of money, They give a

772
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 10: lot of elbow grease, they give a lot of shoe leather.

773
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 10: They will campaign among their members, because I think that

774
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 10: some of their members are still almost certainly undecided in

775
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 10: this race. They will mobilize their members who are for

776
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 10: vice president Harris to get out to vote, but they'll

777
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 10: also communicate with Teamster family members, with Teamster community members,

778
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 10: and I think that they will get out and support

779
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 10: the campaign very aggressively with volunteer hours and with telephone

780
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 10: calls and with door to door canvas, saying Teamsters can

781
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 10: be a very very effective union, and they have significant

782
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 10: prominence in a lot of the critical swing states that

783
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 10: are going to decide this election. Remember there's a UPS

784
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 10: driver almost everywhere in America, and those folks are Teamsters.

785
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 6: Well, and we remember well last year's negotiations between the

786
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 6: Teamsters and UPS as well. That was one of the

787
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 6: prominent periods of labor strife, if you will, that we

788
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 6: were paying attention to, followed of course by the actors

789
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 6: and writers in Hollywood, than the UAW strikes with the

790
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 6: auto workers. And now we're dealing with a different situation

791
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 6: seth it's Boeing with thirty three thousand workers having walked

792
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 6: off the job in Seattle last week, something that could

793
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 6: hamper production. Boeing now saying it's going to freeze hiring

794
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 6: to try to preserve cash during this period. Because this

795
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 6: is a company that's actually on junk watch. It could

796
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 6: lose its investment grade credit rating potentially as a result

797
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 6: of this seth If you're the union trying to extract

798
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 6: or exercise leverage against the company that arguably is in

799
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 6: very precarious position, how much room do you really have

800
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 6: when you don't want to actually risk these jobs just

801
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 6: disappearing altogether.

802
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 10: Well, let's start by acknowledging that Boeing has been the

803
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 10: company that has shot itself in the foot more than

804
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 10: maybe any other in America. They have safety problems, they

805
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 10: have law problems, they have debt problems, and this is

806
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 10: a company that has had really serious challenges over the

807
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 10: course of the last let's go back a decade. They

808
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 10: could enter into a partnership with their union, and the

809
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 10: union could help them to be much much more successful

810
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 10: at what they're doing. But they came to the table

811
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 10: with an offer that frankly was an insult to the

812
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 10: members of the Machinist's union. They represented their pay increases

813
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 10: being twenty five percent, but then they took back an

814
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 10: annual bonus of four percent, so the increase the pay

815
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 10: increase would have only been about nine percent a year.

816
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 10: These members have not had a pay increase over almost

817
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 10: a decade except for costs of living adjustments. I think

818
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 10: that you have a lot of very very very angry

819
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 10: machinists out in Washington State who have been cut out

820
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 10: of the collective bargaining process for almost sixteen years for

821
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 10: a whole bunch of reasons. A bunch of their work

822
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 10: was shifted at out of Washington to a non union

823
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 10: plant in South Carolina. They want to see significant progress

824
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 10: in this collective bargaining agreement, and I think they're going

825
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 10: to continue to hold Boeing's feet to the fire. It's

826
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 10: going to be up to management to figure out how

827
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 10: to produce the resources that are needed.

828
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: Should Kamala Harris walk the picket line with these members

829
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: the way Joe Biden did the UAW.

830
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 10: You know, I don't know if they've asked her to

831
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 10: do that yet, but my guess is that if they

832
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 10: invited her that she would come. She's walked picket lines before,

833
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 10: and she is very very strongly supportive of workers getting

834
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 10: a fair share of the profits that they produce. I

835
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 10: think she would like to see workers' wages go up.

836
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 10: The union here has demanded forty percent without the take

837
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 10: back of the bonuses, So I think it's going to

838
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 10: be a very very interesting strike going forward. My hope

839
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 10: is that it will be resolved quickly by the parties

840
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 10: coming to the table and they their ability to reach

841
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 10: a deal. But I have to be honest, I'm a

842
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 10: little bit skeptical. I think, you know, you have new

843
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 10: leadership at Boeing that has never seen anything like this before,

844
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 10: and you have some very very angry machinists. Hopefully they'll

845
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 10: get some of that anger out on the picket line

846
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:15,959
Speaker 10: and they'll be able to get to a deal.

847
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 6: All right, Well, we'll all be watching to see how

848
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 6: this develops in the coming days and potentially weeks ahead.

849
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 6: Seth meantime, this week, we're all really focused on one

850
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 6: big event that comes on Wednesday. It's the great decision

851
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 6: from the Federal Reserve. Yes, it's expected to be a cut.

852
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 6: The question is of what size, and this gets to

853
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 6: the labor market in the position it is in very specifically,

854
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 6: as you look at the concerns raised by a trio

855
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 6: of senators in a letter to the Fed today, Elizabeth Warden,

856
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 6: Warren Sheldon Whitehouse, and John Hickenlooper authoring a letter urging

857
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 6: the Fed to cut by seventy five basis points on Wednesday,

858
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 6: because they think if the FED is too cautious and

859
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 6: cutting rates, it would quote needlessly risk our economy heading

860
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 6: towards a recession. Is that of you you share seth.

861
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 10: I would like to see the FED cut interest rates

862
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 10: by at least fifty basis points. I think there is

863
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 10: a justification for doing seventy five basis points. But the

864
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 10: truth of the matter is the Fed has been extraordinarily cautious.

865
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 10: They are very concerned about inflation, I think too concerned

866
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 10: about it, and not concerned enough about jobs and the

867
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 10: state of the labor market. We have seen some meaningful

868
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 10: slippage in the labor market over the course of the

869
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 10: last year. We have seen the number of job openings decline.

870
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 10: We've seen the number of workers quitting their jobs decline.

871
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 10: We have not seen a big increase in layoffs because

872
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 10: employers continue to hug their workers. They don't want to

873
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 10: have to go out into the labor market and find

874
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 10: new workers. But I think we need to juice growth

875
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 10: in the economy and juice the labor market. So I

876
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 10: think the Senator's position is certainly justifiable. I think it's

877
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 10: unlikely that the FED is going to go quite that far.

878
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 10: I think fifty basis points is more likely, and I

879
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 10: fear it could be twenty five basis would send a

880
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 10: terrible signal both to workers and to Wall Street.

881
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting. If there's room for seventy five or

882
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 2: justification for seventy five south, does that mean the FED

883
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 2: was that late or things have deteriorated that much since July.

884
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 10: I think they are late. I think they are late

885
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 10: to the game here. You know, we have seen slow,

886
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 10: drip drip deterioration in the labor market for many months now.

887
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 10: It didn't all happen over the summer, and there have

888
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 10: been signals sent to the FED that the labor market

889
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 10: was beginning to face trouble. Now, it's not a crisis,

890
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 10: it's not the end of the world. We're not headed

891
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 10: towards a recession. But certainly the revisions that we have

892
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 10: seen from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the number

893
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 10: of jobs that have been created tell us that the

894
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 10: labor market has been growing much much more slowly than

895
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 10: we believe. The FED should have since that, they should

896
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 10: have understood that from their beage book, and they should

897
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 10: have acted much much sooner. I'm concerned that they're going

898
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 10: to do too little and it might be too late.

899
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 3: Seth.

900
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 6: Finally, before we let you go, as we consider the

901
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 6: dynamics in the labor market and the pace of job creation,

902
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 6: I wonder if some of the policy proposals we've heard

903
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 6: from former President Trump, specifically the notion of not taxing

904
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 6: overtime hours worked if you're worried about the disruptive effect

905
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 6: that could have in the labor market. If you can

906
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 6: make more or not be taxed on your overtime hours,

907
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 6: does that actually encourage existing employees to work longer rather

908
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 6: than another employee potentially filling those hours.

909
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 10: Well, that's the theory of overtime, is that if you

910
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 10: make overtime more expensive, employers will hire additional workers instead

911
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 10: of making their current workers work harder. It was all

912
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 10: about trying to bring down the number of hours that

913
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 10: current incumbent employees are working. Removing the income tax on

914
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 10: overtime don't have any effect on employer behavior because the

915
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 10: costs will be the same for employers. It's just that

916
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 10: employees will do a little bit better. But that's not

917
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 10: the best solution for our economy. That workers should have

918
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 10: to work really, really, really hard and then get a

919
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 10: small marginal increase in their pay because we've gotten rid

920
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 10: of income taxes on overtime. The better strategy is higher

921
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 10: wages for workers across the board, a higher minimum wage,

922
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 10: higher prevailing wages, higher wages through union organizing, and workers

923
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 10: collectively bargaining for better wages. In that way, very tight

924
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 10: labor markets that make labor a seller's commodity, not a

925
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 10: buyer's commodity. That is the way that we help the

926
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 10: largest number of workers more. We want workers to balance

927
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 10: their work life and their home life.

928
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 9: More.

929
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 10: Overtime is not the solution to that.

930
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: All right.

931
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 6: Seth Harris, Senior Fellow at the Burn Center for Social

932
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 6: Change at Northeastern University, former top labor policy advisor to

933
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 6: President Biden. Thank you so much.

934
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

935
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

936
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: roud Oro with a Bloomberg Business app. You can also

937
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

938
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

939
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: There is important news beyond this here in Washington, like

940
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 2: funding our government. Lawmakers don't come back until tomorrow, and

941
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: when they do, they may as well be starting from scratch,

942
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 2: because what we saw last week resulted in nothing. This

943
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: idea of a six month CR combined with the Save

944
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 2: Act couldn't get enough Democrats or Republicans to make it happen.

945
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: So there are great questions about what is going to

946
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: happen with the clock ticking now, what are we fifteen

947
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 2: days away? It's two fridays off here right the thirtieth

948
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: of September, and there's no floor action in sight. Now,

949
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 2: there are many different sides to this story. When we

950
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: talk about a potential shutdown, people get really bogged down

951
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: into that. No one's calling for a shutdown right now.

952
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: There are great concerns, however, about what corrosive effect a

953
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 2: long CR would do here to various programs, including something

954
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 2: called the military. I will point you to a statement

955
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: from the Office of Management and Budget as we prepare

956
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 2: to talk to Retire General Arnold Panaro. The bill it

957
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: read when this CR was put on the floor is

958
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 2: especially irresponsible in terms of national security, as a quote,

959
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: six months CR would erode our military advantage relative to

960
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: the People's Republic of China, degrade readiness and fail to

961
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: provide the support our troops deserve. Unquote Arnold Panaro, a

962
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 2: retired two star Marine Corps major general, former staff director

963
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 2: of the Senate Armed Services Committee, author of the book

964
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 2: The Ever Shrinking Fight Force. General, it's great to have

965
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: you back. Welcome, good to see you today. On Bloomberg.

966
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: Can you put a finer point on this what a

967
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 2: six month CR would mean for our pentagon?

968
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 12: Well, first, let me say you can sleep walk into

969
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 12: government shutdown, and so we should not rule out that possibility.

970
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 12: Certainly people are saying they don't want it, but we've

971
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 12: seen it happen many times before with the current situation.

972
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 12: The second point I would make picking up and I'm

973
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 12: going to stay clear of any political rhetoric on the

974
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 12: military man, but if you perimeter in your military is

975
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 12: not secure, you bring in more people. It's clear to

976
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 12: me that the Secret Service needs more people, more resources.

977
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 12: You can't get that under a government shutdown. In fact,

978
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 12: the Secret Service wouldn't be able to go to work,

979
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 12: although they would be deemed essential personnel, but they wouldn't

980
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 12: be paid in their support. And you certainly can't increase

981
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 12: resources under continuing resolution because it keeps it flat. So

982
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 12: we're event. As devastating as that would be, it would

983
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 12: be even more harmful to our national security. Secretary of

984
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 12: Lord Austin sent a nine page letter to the congressional

985
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 12: leadership last week outlining all the devastations. And typically, you

986
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 12: know at this time of year, we do a lot

987
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 12: of hand raadings. This was very different because what we're

988
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 12: talking about is a lack of perch power of about

989
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 12: forty billion dollars. China doesn't operate under CRS Russia, North Korea, Ukraine.

990
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 12: You know, we have to get our government funded and

991
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 12: we have to keep the military funded. You would lose

992
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 12: an actual cut the program increases. They can't adjust over

993
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 12: one hundred and sixty eight monernization programs. It would be

994
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 12: over one hundred programs WRO with about forty billion that

995
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 12: couldn't get rate increases. We would con the sequestor will

996
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 12: happen if the appropriation bills don't pass all this is

997
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 12: totally avoidable. We knew at the beginning of this this

998
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 12: current calendar year, in January, we're going to be under

999
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 12: a cr If they could have passed this and gone home,

1000
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 12: gone back to get re elected, and so really it's

1001
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 12: inexcusable that Congress has not done its work. Again, We've

1002
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 12: now had five years of tumultive CRS on DoD China

1003
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 12: can basically go from concept to first flight in five years.

1004
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 12: We take twenty five years and under five. We've lost

1005
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 12: five years of government funding with CRS for our national defense.

1006
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 2: Incredible, five years without regular order. You mentioned an important

1007
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 2: word general of the sequester. If this CR in fact pass,

1008
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: doesn't look like it will. But I guess a different

1009
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 2: six month verson could if it would end March twenty eighth,

1010
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: walking us right up to the line to across the

1011
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: board cuts if there is no this is part of

1012
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 2: the Fiscal Responsibility Act, remembering from last year. If in

1013
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: fact there's no good old fashioned budget twelve spending bills,

1014
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: and nobody seems to see that coming anytime soon, this,

1015
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: I guess the point is, could get much worse, couldn't it.

1016
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 12: Absolutely, and frankly being candid, we didn't see it coming

1017
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 12: back in fiscal twelve and thirteen. Oh, the sequester is

1018
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 12: never going to happen. It didn't happen, and we got

1019
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,479
Speaker 12: stuck with a sequester level for defense for ten years,

1020
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 12: and we lost five years of readiness, and so we're

1021
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 12: in a very dangerous and uncertain, turbulent world. We cannot

1022
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 12: afford to go into one October, certainly not with a

1023
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 12: government shutdown, but also not tying our financial security is

1024
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 12: behind our back. When one day we may have to

1025
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 12: move a carrier from the Indo Pacific to the Mediterranean,

1026
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 12: we may be send truths in harms. Way, we live

1027
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 12: in a very dangerous world. This is so irres responsible

1028
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 12: on the part of Congress. Great break. I would say

1029
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 12: the Republican leadership in national security the Chairman of the

1030
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 12: House Owned Services of Any Mike Rogers, the ranking member

1031
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 12: and Armed Services, Roger Wicker. The Republican leadership is very

1032
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 12: much on the national security side against what the Speaker

1033
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 12: has outlined six months. They are with say that, so

1034
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 12: I want to give credit to the national security bipartisan

1035
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 12: group in the House and Senate. They're pushing back on this,

1036
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 12: but so far we don't have a solution.

1037
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 2: You are right, is creating a bit of a fissure

1038
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: inside the Republican conference. You're inside the Republican Party general.

1039
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: You've said a lot of things here, and I wonder

1040
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: if the idea of an emergency supplemental budget request for

1041
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 2: both the military and as you mentioned, the Secret Service.

1042
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 2: If there is an additional request you're mid be part

1043
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: of the lame duck session or had early next year.

1044
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 2: Is that the way this ends with an emergency supplemental.

1045
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 12: We can't own the Secret Service, We can't wait for

1046
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 12: the lane DOT. Both candidates need security now. They need

1047
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 12: to beef up security, and there's a lot that goes

1048
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 12: with that when they travel. When the candidates travel, they

1049
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 12: need all kind of support. They need local law enforcement

1050
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 12: that has to be paid for. So even under a

1051
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 12: continuing resolution, it could adversely hamper the candidate's travel plans

1052
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 12: because they've got to be secure. So we can't wait

1053
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 12: for a lane DT for emergency funding for the Secret Service,

1054
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 12: and frankly for some of the things that our military needs.

1055
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 4: To do right now.

1056
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 2: Can you speak general when you consider the idea of

1057
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: projecting power internationally? Can you speak to the message that

1058
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 2: we are projecting as a nation. When it becomes apparent

1059
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: that we're having trouble keeping our presidential candidates safe, I

1060
00:57:58,960 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: think it's.

1061
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 12: A signal of of extreme weakness, and frankly, deterrence is

1062
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 12: the key we in the military we're the last people

1063
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 12: that want to get in the shooting war. You want

1064
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 12: to deter war. For deterrence to be credible, you have

1065
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 12: to have the capability. So you have to have the

1066
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 12: forces in place that has to be credible, and your

1067
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 12: adversaries have to know you'd be able to use it.

1068
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 12: If you can't fund your government and your government sets down,

1069
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 12: you lose the terrence. And so frankly, I think it

1070
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 12: sends a very great signal of weakness, and I think

1071
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 12: that's one of the reasons by Secretary of Austin. I've

1072
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 12: been around a long time, decades and decades and decadies,

1073
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 12: I have never seen a letter from a Secretary of

1074
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 12: Defense that is damaging in terms of the adverse impacts

1075
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 12: on our national security as the one that he sent

1076
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 12: to the congressional leadership last week, and they ought to

1077
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 12: pay attention to it.

1078
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 2: Can the Republican Hawks in our last moment here generally

1079
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 2: you mentioned can the Michael McCalls. Can the Vickers turn

1080
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: Speaker Johnson to a different position in the next two weeks.

1081
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 12: On this well, I had the greatest respect for the

1082
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 12: bipartisan national security leadership, particularly of the Republican leadership on

1083
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 12: national Security. Let's see, they should and they should listen.

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00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 12: The Speaker should listen to them, and I hope you will.

1085
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 12: I can't predict because it's such an uncertain because you

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00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 12: have people in the Freedom Caucus that basically the isolation

1087
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 12: this wing in both parties, and so I would hope

1088
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 12: they would listen to Mike Rogers and Roger Ricker and

1089
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 12: Mike McCall and Ken Calvert and Mike Turner on the

1090
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 12: Intelligence Committee, just like I know that Speaker Schumer and

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00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 12: Leader Schumer and Minority Leader Jefferies are listening to Adam

1092
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 12: Smith and Jack Reid and Don Tester and Susan Collins

1093
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 12: and Susan Collins by the way, on the appropriations it.

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00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 2: Said they'd be time for another family conversation. General Arnold Ponaro,

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00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: Thank you General. As always, this is Bloomberg. Thanks for

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00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 2: listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to

1097
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 2: subscribe if you haven't already an Apple, Spotify, or wherever

1098
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and you can find us live

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01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: every weekday from Washington, d C. At noontime Eastern at

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01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com