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Speaker 1: Atlanta. Guess what the good Moms are coming to your

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Speaker 1: city on April twenty six. We're pulling up at the

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Speaker 1: Black Effect Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 2: That's right, We'll be hitting the stage with other hot

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Speaker 2: podcasts like R and B, Money, Trap Nerds, Naked Sports,

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Speaker 2: and Sarah Jakes.

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Speaker 1: And if you've ever been to a Good Mom's Bad

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Speaker 1: Choices show, you know it gets real, real bad and

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Speaker 1: we have some special guests. So I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: meet our Atlanta tribe. Make sure you pull up April

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Speaker 1: twenty six to the Black Effect Podcast Festival and get

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Speaker 1: your tickets at Black Effect dot Com Slash Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 1: See you there, hey, tribe. Happy Sexual Assault Awareness and

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Speaker 1: Prevention Month. This episode is due for trigger warning. We

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Speaker 1: are getting into some deep topics about sexual assault sexual

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Speaker 1: abuse and we wanted to brief you before watching this episode.

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Speaker 1: I encourage you to listen. It's very informative, it's very honest,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully helpful.

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Speaker 3: Once upon a time was a good old traditional housewife.

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Speaker 3: Cod She cleaned and cared for her children and the

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Speaker 3: man of the house, and of course she didn't talk back.

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Speaker 3: She was both obeat, hint and soft by nature. She

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Speaker 3: was a good woman who always made good choice.

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Speaker 1: We're good Mom's bad choices too, single mom who said

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Speaker 1: fuck the patriarchy, shared all their bad choices and found

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Speaker 1: out they were so bad after all, we're experts.

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Speaker 4: Overshares and your new besties.

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Speaker 1: Sit back and enjoy the ride.

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Speaker 5: I can.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to good Mom's bad choices. I'm Erica and

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Speaker 1: I'm Mila. Happy Wednesday, Happy hump Day, y'all. How you doing,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. You look cute. Thanks, We're giving Tantrica

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Speaker 1: boss bitch. You know I had a client today. Did

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Speaker 1: you wear this singer? Client? No?

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Speaker 2: But feeling the energy because I put this on. I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna put a blazer on. Yeah, I'm having a

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Speaker 2: good week. I'm just you know, seasons are switching. I

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Speaker 2: had a good weekend with Luna. This weekend, we went

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Speaker 2: to the We went to Alvin Ailey Ballet. It was

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Speaker 2: her first time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw. I'm so mad. I like, when I

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Speaker 1: was looking online the tickets were so expensive they probably

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Speaker 1: didn't sell out and so we could just walk in.

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Speaker 2: No, what happened is I bought them online. I was

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Speaker 2: going I was gonna drop off to my mom because

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Speaker 2: I wanted her to experience it. And then I was like,

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Speaker 2: let me just fucking go. And I found a ticket.

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Speaker 2: It was it was too good to be true. It

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Speaker 2: was Orchestra for sixty eight dollars. And then I got

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Speaker 2: there and they're like, oh, stub Hub's been scamming people

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Speaker 2: all day, so we've been giving. We've been selling tickets

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Speaker 2: for twenty five dollars. So I'm like, she's like, you

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Speaker 2: can just you can like dispute it, and I was like, fine,

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Speaker 2: I'll just buy the ticket twenty five dollars though, but

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Speaker 2: it was on the balcony. I saw everything as beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I was tired as fuck.

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Speaker 1: Though.

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Speaker 2: We left like a park birthday party. They drove two

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Speaker 2: hours to get to. Then I went to the ballet.

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Speaker 2: But at the end we saw Angela Bassett and my

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Speaker 2: mom was like, and then I was like, and then

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Speaker 2: she was like, and then we were all like, and

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Speaker 2: then here goes Linda. That's the girl from Wakanda. I

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Speaker 2: was like, girl, that's Tina Turner. I was like, look

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Speaker 2: at the fucking age difference up in here talking about

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Speaker 2: that's the lady from Wakanda.

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, that's the beauty of her career. It's

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Speaker 1: spanned so many fucking years. She's been so many different.

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Speaker 4: Characters, right, we're all star striking, like meaningful.

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Speaker 1: To different people at different stages in their life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was like pretty.

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Speaker 2: I felt like I saw a black royalty. You did,

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Speaker 2: so that was like walt. Yeah, me and my mom

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Speaker 2: and Luna were all hype.

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Speaker 4: So it was really cute.

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Speaker 2: And then yesterday we watched Mawana too, which wasn't as

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Speaker 2: good because it's not as you know, Lynna Mmanuel Miranda

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Speaker 2: didn't do the music. I only know that because Linda

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Speaker 2: told me. And and then we rode eight mile eight

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Speaker 2: mile bike ride eight miles.

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Speaker 1: You and Luna, where the fuck did you go? Didn't

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Speaker 1: Elle's house? So you drove, You rode there and rode back. Wow,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad. She was a bit proud of her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she was like it's hot.

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Speaker 4: I was like, it's gonna get hotter, so you might

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 1: Did she like stop for waters and ice.

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Speaker 2: We stopped for one water and you know, I pumped

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Speaker 2: her tire, poor thing. I think she was trying really hard,

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Speaker 2: but the fucking tire was a little flat. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, I was like, is that better. She's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: much better.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, canm. I'm happy obstacles, You're like, get it together.

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Speaker 1: Her first fucking ten mile ride.

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Speaker 2: She's had a long one before. We were like in

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Speaker 2: the street, like in the bike lane too. I'm like

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Speaker 2: looking behind me, like, please, God, nothing happened to her.

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Speaker 2: I'm fucking biking her eight miles.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. It was fun.

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Speaker 4: We had a good time.

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Speaker 2: Then we went to dinner and she told me secrets

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Speaker 2: from her school and I was like, perfect group, best friends,

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Speaker 2: tell me everything.

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Speaker 1: So we had a good We had a good weekend,

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Speaker 1: so I'm happy. That's cool. How was your weekend? It

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Speaker 1: was good. We saw Cleo Soul so that was great.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we did that too. I had the weekend

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Speaker 2: of the arts. Yeah that was great.

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Speaker 1: And then what did I do the day after that

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Speaker 1: birthday party? The birthday party? I drove two hours the

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Speaker 1: birthday party, shout out to Nearland, Happy birthday, Julia, We

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Speaker 1: love you. I lived for as fuck, so everywhere I

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Speaker 1: go is going to be that. And then yesterday I

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Speaker 1: did something that I've been wanting to do and I'm

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Speaker 1: happy to share that I finally did it. Me talk

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Speaker 1: about this on our episode with Nicole Russell generational silence

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Speaker 1: about interviewing my grandmother and my great aunt and my mom,

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Speaker 1: and so I finally did it. How was it? It

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Speaker 1: was really good. I'm very drained today though, like I

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Speaker 1: didn't I know, like I know that like I take

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Speaker 1: on people take on energy. But I was literally sitting

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Speaker 1: on the floor in the middle of all of them

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Speaker 1: as they're sharing and talking, and it was good. My

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Speaker 1: grandmother really came like I asked her, like when I started,

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Speaker 1: I opened up the space and was like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is a safe space. Please just be as honest as

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Speaker 1: you can. And she was. She was very, very honest.

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Speaker 1: She shared things with me that I've never heard her

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Speaker 1: say before, and it was just interesting, Like I had

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Speaker 1: I had spoken about this the other day that I

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Speaker 1: listened to this episode with mel Robbins and doctor Gabor

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Speaker 1: and he was talking about epigenetics and all the childhood trauma,

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Speaker 1: and he was also talking about how siblings have different

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Speaker 1: experiences in the same household and a lot of times

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Speaker 1: siblings are kind of discarded and being like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I don't you were raised by the same parents,

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Speaker 1: Like what the fuck are you talking about? And this

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Speaker 1: was a prime example of being in the same household. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: my grandmother and my great aunt are nine years apart,

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Speaker 1: so they definitely got differentis of they got different parents,

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Speaker 1: they had different experiences, and it was challenging for my aunt,

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Speaker 1: who was younger than my grandmother, to hear my grandmother

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Speaker 1: talk about their father because that's not the experience that

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Speaker 1: she had with her father. My grandmother had a very

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Speaker 1: traumatic childhood with her dad, and my great aunt had

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Speaker 1: a really great experience with her dad. So interesting, So

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Speaker 1: I saw her getting emotional and like, you know, she said,

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Speaker 1: like I don't want to sit here and defend him

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Speaker 1: because I can't because that's not my experience. All I

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Speaker 1: can say is like it breaks my heart that you've

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Speaker 1: that you had that experience and that wasn't my experience.

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Speaker 1: But I do feel like this like urge to defend him,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not going to. So it was it got heavy,

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Speaker 1: It got heavy, and I realized I got to do more.

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Speaker 1: Like there was we were sat there for three hours.

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Speaker 1: It was three hours and still and still like I

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Speaker 1: feel like I got to like I didn't even get

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Speaker 1: to like the like to meet of it. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was like I was really trying to document their

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Speaker 1: journey from like New Mexico, Mexico to California, and like

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Speaker 1: also weave in like what was going on during those times.

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Speaker 1: And I just I know now that like I need

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Speaker 1: to sit with my grandmother one on one too and

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Speaker 1: talk to her, because it's a little bit different when

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Speaker 1: you're sitting in front of your daughter and everybody's there.

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Speaker 1: So I feel really inspired to continue the conversation. My

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Speaker 1: grandmother was like, please don't share this on the TV screens. No, Graham,

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Speaker 1: not the TV on the TV screen does She's like,

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Speaker 1: this is yesterday's conversation. Was so stupid and silly. Say that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so stupid. I don't know why you want to

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Speaker 1: know any of that stuff, but just don't share it

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Speaker 1: on the TV screens, okay. And I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to share it, Tony. I'll only share it

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Speaker 1: with your permission. And I don't really have a desire

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Speaker 1: to share it. I really just did this for my family. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, this morning I woke up. I was bitch.

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Speaker 1: I was so tired. I tried to wake up like

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Speaker 1: four times and I could not. So this morning I

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Speaker 1: finally got to the shower I saged. I was like,

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Speaker 1: maybe I need a sage something mother fucking energy off

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Speaker 1: of me. That didn't work, but I feel I'm here,

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in our in our seat, and I feel better.

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Speaker 1: At least you did it. I did it.

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Speaker 2: It's recorded, you can always reference it back. You can

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Speaker 2: keep doing it and make it easier the second time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have.

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Speaker 2: One great aunt left. I'm like, do I need to

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Speaker 2: go to Philly and like this one she's Jehovah. I

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Speaker 2: don't know how open she's going to be. I feel

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Speaker 2: like all the Jehovah's are cool.

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Speaker 1: I'd be surprised how much people are waiting to share.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thanks, Yeah, so now I feel I didn't even

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Speaker 2: think about her as an option, but she's like my

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Speaker 2: last oldest living relative. So I have to so thank

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Speaker 2: you for the inspiration and I'm glad that you did it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's important. Well anyway, you guys, we have a

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Speaker 1: special guest here today. I'm really excited because this month,

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Speaker 1: if you didn't know, a sexual assault awareness and prevention month.

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Speaker 1: And I met this beautiful woman that say next to

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Speaker 1: me a few years ago at the Model Experience. Shout

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Speaker 1: out to Ashley Runway and I was hosting a panel

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Speaker 1: and we connected and I've been watching her journey over

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Speaker 1: the last six months and I'm so inspired by you.

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Speaker 1: So I want to welcome to the show. Lisa J. Phillips,

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Speaker 1: who is the host of From now On podcast, which

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Speaker 1: is a podcast that shares the shares people that have

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Speaker 1: been victims of sexual assault within the entertainment industry and

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Speaker 1: the arts and the creator in film, TV, sports, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for coming.

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Speaker 6: Super excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: So I was super inspired by just the work that

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Speaker 1: you've been doing. It's been I've been seeing all the

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Speaker 1: clips on Instagram and you're really going there, like with

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Speaker 1: a lot of with your story, which we'll get into,

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Speaker 1: and just all the people that are sharing and speaking

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Speaker 1: out about their these horrible experiences that they've had, and

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Speaker 1: I think that so many women and people have not

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Speaker 1: just in the entertainment industry, but just in the wind

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Speaker 1: just living and existing. So yeah, can you give us

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Speaker 1: like a little bit of insight and to like your

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Speaker 1: journey to the podcast. I know that you had a

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Speaker 1: whole career before being a podcaster as a model and

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Speaker 1: an agent. I think or is that what you're doing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, maybe tell us a little bit about your

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Speaker 1: journey into your podcast.

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Speaker 6: Well you just said it. You were like, you know,

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Speaker 6: people just want to share. You'd be surprised of how

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Speaker 6: much people want to share when she was talking about

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Speaker 6: your grandmother. And that's what I found, is that people

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Speaker 6: connect over sharing those stories. And so, like you said,

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Speaker 6: I was in the fashion business since I was a teenager,

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Speaker 6: travel all around the world and loved it, and I

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Speaker 6: felt like I built myself up to a certain level

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Speaker 6: as an agent and then a manager and opened my

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Speaker 6: own business and all that stuff, and I'm just like,

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Speaker 6: I just want to do something that just means something

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Speaker 6: that's something that his career ageous and brave, and just

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Speaker 6: something where I can just step out of this person

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Speaker 6: who I've been and just become somebody a lot more

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Speaker 6: powerful because I knew it was in me and I

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Speaker 6: had this story that I've been telling little bits by bits,

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Speaker 6: and then everyone's doing podcasting now, so I was like,

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Speaker 6: I just want to do a podcast. That's the way

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Speaker 6: I want to start sharing my story. But I felt

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Speaker 6: like I needed to share in a way that felt

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Speaker 6: comfortable and I felt supported with another survivor to share

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Speaker 6: as well. So I started this podcast where it's called Fromenolon,

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Speaker 6: where I share my story, but I also open up conversations,

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Speaker 6: deeper conversations about other survivors abuse and assaults that have

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Speaker 6: happened to them on their way of building their careers

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Speaker 6: or you know, ambitious women, they come up against powerful

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Speaker 6: men and a lot of times, you know, we are

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Speaker 6: in situations where it's compromising and and you know, assaults

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Speaker 6: happen or abuse and then.

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Speaker 1: Feel powerless and just and so for our audience, so

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Speaker 1: that you guys know Lisa, she is a survivor of

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. And you know, Jeffrey committed suicide in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I think in suicide or whatever. Yeah, suicide is that

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Speaker 1: is Do you not believe that he committed suicide?

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Speaker 4: You believe somebody killed him in prison?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's what I believe. Yeah, sure, just

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Speaker 6: what I think.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he probably had a lot of people's secrets

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Speaker 1: on his oh right, right on his Yeah.

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Speaker 6: And there was the whole basis of Jeffrey was that

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Speaker 6: he was recording everything on powerful people, so you knew

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Speaker 6: everyone's secrets.

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Speaker 4: What a cynical little crazy fuck?

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Speaker 1: How did it all start? Like I because I think

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Speaker 1: some people think like it's sexual assault is like one way.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's very layered and it's nuanced. So how

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Speaker 1: what was your journey into this, this situation with Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 6: Well, I just think like nowadays, like people are learning

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Speaker 6: about assault because everyone's talking about it on a podcasts

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Speaker 6: or being educated more so. I mean we're talking about

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Speaker 6: twenty years ago now, you know when this happened. So

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Speaker 6: I didn't know anything about this type of abuse or

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Speaker 6: even what to look out for. I was naive and

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Speaker 6: just thought everyone was so I want to help you out.

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Speaker 6: Of course they want to help me out, and I

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Speaker 6: just didn't know. You know, when you're younger, who do

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Speaker 6: you trust?

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Speaker 1: You can trust? Yeah? And then you meet like a wealthy,

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Speaker 1: powerful man who's charming and nice and listens and thoughtful.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's like a lot of the grooming

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Speaker 1: that happens where it's confusing for people, where they're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: did I participate in this? Like is it my fault?

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Speaker 1: Like I think I was reading I was reading some

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Speaker 1: stats on sexual assault and I was actually fucking astonished.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you'll be shocked.

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Speaker 1: And I want to just read through some of this

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Speaker 1: stuff for our audience before we get into this, because

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Speaker 1: I had no idea some of these stats. One in

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Speaker 1: five women and one in seventy one men will be

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Speaker 1: raped at some point in their lives.

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Speaker 4: One in five compared to one in seventy WHOA, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Eighty one percent of women and forty three percent of

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Speaker 1: men report experiencing some sort of sexual harassment during their lifetime.

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Speaker 1: And like we were talking about this, I was like,

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Speaker 1: eighty one seems low. Yeah, Actually, I feel like ninety

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Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of women, approximately one in three

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Speaker 1: women and one in six men have experienced some sort

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Speaker 1: of sexual violence other than rape. And this is the

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Speaker 1: stuff that really was crazy is around sixty eight percent

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Speaker 1: of sexual assaults are not reported to law enforcement, and

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Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of rapists will never spend a jail,

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Speaker 1: a day in jail or prison, like ninety eight percent.

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Speaker 6: Well, most of them get away with it because they

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Speaker 6: don't report it, and there's so much shame around it.

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Speaker 6: First of all, you don't report it, and you have

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Speaker 6: to do it pretty quickly after to do the rape kit,

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Speaker 6: and a lot of times, you know, you just have

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Speaker 6: so much shame. Most people report it or start talking

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Speaker 6: about it six or seven years later, Right, that's the average, Wow,

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Speaker 6: many years later, And it's usually because you hear someone

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Speaker 6: else's story or you watch, like, you know, a TV

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Speaker 6: show and you see like the similar dialogue. Wait a second,

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Speaker 6: that happened to me?

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Speaker 2: Right, you have to almost like see it played out

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Speaker 2: to understand that it's actually experienced that well.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I knew what happened to me, you know,

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Speaker 6: in twenty twenty, sorry, in two thousand. I knew what

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Speaker 6: happened to me. I was aware of it, but you

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Speaker 6: have shame, you suppress it, you don't know who to

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Speaker 6: talk to about it. And it wasn't until you know,

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Speaker 6: women started speaking out about Jeffrey Epstein that I felt

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Speaker 6: comfortablely be like, okay, what is second, that's what happened

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Speaker 6: to me, and then wanting to reach out to them

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Speaker 6: and talk about it and see where our stories kind

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Speaker 6: of lined up. And you know, all the stories accord

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Speaker 6: with this guy were all the same, whether you were

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Speaker 6: underage or not.

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Speaker 1: And the gay and they were in this in these

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Speaker 1: stats that were saying that most assault happens between the

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Speaker 1: ages of eighteen and thirty four, how old were you

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Speaker 1: when eighteen thirty four? How old were you when you

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Speaker 1: started when this started happening to you?

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Speaker 6: Twenty twenty one, twenty.

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Speaker 1: Twenty two, that twenty or twenty one years old? Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: And I was reading you know, when I was reading

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Speaker 1: your your story about how you met him, which was

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Speaker 1: I think you guys you were you had to shoot

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Speaker 1: in the Virgin Islands and then a friend of yours

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Speaker 1: invited you to his private island or something, or his

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Speaker 1: island he was renting.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, well, that's so crazy about it because most people

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Speaker 6: who were invited into Jeffrey Epstein's web were through Gallaine Maxwell,

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Speaker 6: the underage girls in Florida, or you knew him or

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Speaker 6: introduced through another friend. That's just the way he operated.

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Speaker 6: And was like, oh, hey, your first friend, you know,

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Speaker 6: I was a mentor of mine, Come meet him. But

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Speaker 6: I was just on a photo shoot in the islands,

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Speaker 6: right I was just minding my own business and a

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Speaker 6: photo shoot. And the other young model was like, hey,

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Speaker 6: we have a day off. I have a friend who

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Speaker 6: owns an island right here. Do you want to go?

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Speaker 6: And I'm thinking, well, I just want to get away

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Speaker 6: from the photographer of them want to shoot with right,

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Speaker 6: because he's the photographer, was also like creeping into my

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Speaker 6: bed at night, you know, and I was just like

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Speaker 6: so freaked out. And he was a younger, like hot photographer,

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Speaker 6: but it wasn't it was still right. And so when

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Speaker 6: she invited me, I was like, yeah, I want to

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Speaker 6: get away from him, not knowing that another predator's.

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Speaker 1: Out to a whole other, whole.

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Speaker 6: Different type of predator. So yeah, and we just took

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Speaker 6: a boat over to his island and just thought I

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Speaker 6: was just meeting like this wealthy guy who kind of

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Speaker 6: just kept to himself and you know, played in the pool.

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Speaker 6: But I observed some things when I was on the

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Speaker 6: island that probably wasn't supposed to see, and he introduced

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Speaker 6: me to someone who just had walked up, who later

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Speaker 6: ended up being these young girls were saying this man

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Speaker 6: had assaulted them.

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Speaker 1: You know, they said that during the at the island,

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Speaker 1: they told you this.

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Speaker 6: Well, he's part of royalty in England, so you know,

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Speaker 6: I just saw some things that had happened. And then

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Speaker 6: later on when I when I got home, he relentlessly

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Speaker 6: called me over and over and over, and I, in

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Speaker 6: hindsight think that the reason why he did was because

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Speaker 6: I saw things and he wanted to kind of keep

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Speaker 6: me in his orbit.

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Speaker 2: To make sure you were good, Like good, did the

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Speaker 2: girls that you the other girls that you saw there,

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Speaker 2: or did they were like obviously young?

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Speaker 4: Were You're like, god, they look even younger than me.

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Speaker 6: Well, no, because I was young.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're like, I'm so mature, And.

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Speaker 6: Do we ever do we ever say old? Are you elder?

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Speaker 6: I just assume we're all young, right, So I just

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Speaker 6: assumed they were around the same age as me. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I didn't know at the time, or even if I

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Speaker 6: had asked them. Thember was a while ago. Maybe they

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Speaker 6: said they were older. I don't know, but I didn't

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Speaker 6: know they were or fifteen, six or seventeen at that time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think all girls are kind of like young.

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Speaker 2: First of all, we're like we're groomed by society at

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Speaker 2: just immediately, like we were literally groomed by society by

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Speaker 2: like boys will be boys or you.

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Speaker 4: Know, older men.

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Speaker 2: You know, like there's just like an an an understanding

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Speaker 2: that you just be quiet and you show up and

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Speaker 2: like you smile and nod and like if you're here,

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Speaker 2: then you're lucky. Exactly you're lucky and you're mature, and

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Speaker 2: just keep it hushy, like.

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Speaker 1: They want you to feel like chosen that everyone gets

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Speaker 1: to come here, or if someone's handsy with you, it's

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Speaker 1: because you're you're beautiful and that's normal and like, well.

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Speaker 6: That's a sense of power. Yeah, So anyone in the

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Speaker 6: music industry, the modeling business, fashion, arts, entertainment, sports, whenever

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Speaker 6: you have that power dynamic, especially when they're ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 6: twenty years older than you, it's always this power dynamic.

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Speaker 6: So you you are, as a woman, usually just kind

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Speaker 6: of quiet. You kind of go along with things because

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Speaker 6: you're scared to speak out, you know, or if someone

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Speaker 6: touches you, you don't know how to react in that moment.

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Speaker 2: You were not trained on that smiling and keeping it

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Speaker 2: cute because if we, like if we blew up, then

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Speaker 2: you'd be causing a scene and that'd be crazy.

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Speaker 4: And then why are you dressed like that?

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Speaker 1: Why are you there?

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Speaker 6: Exactly? And they also play on your dreams, so a

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Speaker 6: big one is okay, Like Jeffrey was like that with me,

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Speaker 6: what do you want to do? Like what are you?

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Speaker 6: What's your big dream? And you know, I had super

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Speaker 6: big dreams and I was ambitious at that time, so

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Speaker 6: they play on that ambition, right, and so he kind

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Speaker 6: of used that, you know later on, but he was

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Speaker 6: asking those questions in the beginning, and I thought, oh

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Speaker 6: my gosh, this man who cares about me. He's asking

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Speaker 6: questions and most men don't ask you about anything about yourself,

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Speaker 6: and so when someone does, it's like, white a second.

436
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 6: They care about me, you know, in a certain way

437
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 6: where you feel like you drop your guard you feel

438
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 6: feel like welcomed and special, special, special.

439
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:28,119
Speaker 3: You know.

440
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 1: When I was reading, I was reading an article that

441
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: you I think it was on The Guardian where you'd

442
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 1: shared your story about the girl that brought you to

443
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: the island and how you know, she had made it

444
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 1: very like this is normal, like she didn't like really

445
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: explain anything to you, and how he invited you to

446
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 1: to give him him a massage and she just was like, yeah,

447
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 1: let's do it. And I know that in the article

448
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 1: it shared that you shared that you obviously felt uncomfortable,

449
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: but you went through with.

450
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 6: It because well, it's on the island, you are not

451
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 6: island alone and all myself. Yeah, and I remember this

452
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 6: man had kind of groomed me for the last two hours, right,

453
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 6: I felt comfortable. It was amazing.

454
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: So this was like day one.

455
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, well yeah, we went over to the island and

456
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 6: we spent like the day there and this was at dinner.

457
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 6: So at dinner for two hours and hanging out, he

458
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 6: focused his attention on me, asking me tons of questions

459
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 6: about myself and and I have kind of an interesting

460
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,479
Speaker 6: past because my father was in the Air Force, so

461
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 6: I grew up half my life in Europe, so you know,

462
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 6: I had lived in England. And at that moment, you know,

463
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 6: a prince walks up. So it was like, wow, you know,

464
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 6: I have really important people on this island, and.

465
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: This princess I think I was reading recently, it's finally

466
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: like come to light. It's Prince Andrew like that. He

467
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: has a deep, dark past of this and it's finally

468
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: being exposed. And I don't know if he's ever going

469
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: to go to jail for it. Probably not.

470
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 6: But the girls don't want to speak out. The women

471
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 6: now don't want to speak out, right because you get shamed,

472
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 6: and you know it would probably scared too, And yeah,

473
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 6: most people are scared. You don't want to go up

474
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 6: against that type of power. But I mean that this

475
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 6: power has been taken away because he's been shamed in

476
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 6: many different ways since. So I started speaking out because

477
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 6: I had a girlfriend after I came home from the

478
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 6: island and stuff, who was told by Jeffrey to go

479
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 6: into a room with this, said Prince. So when I

480
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 6: started speaking out in two thousand, it was for her

481
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 6: to say, wait a minute, I saw things, I know things,

482
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 6: you know. So I was trying to like just speak

483
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 6: out for her, not even knowing so much about No, no, no,

484
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 6: I didn't really want to talk about me. I wasn't

485
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 6: ready yet, you know. So it came about because I

486
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 6: saw him on the island when I was there in

487
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 6: two thousand. I saw another thing that happened with him,

488
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 6: and so that's what I was speaking out about.

489
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: Not even your own stuff, No, like this this is

490
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: more important, not my own thing.

491
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 6: For us that you know, it wasn't. And remember I

492
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 6: was also so brainwashed after that to think that this

493
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 6: was a good person.

494
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: So even after that experience, you felt like you had

495
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: a good time there, even though like you had an

496
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: uncomfortable time, have a good time. Oh maybe not a

497
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: good time, but like it was in it was there

498
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: was something that brought you back enough to there was

499
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: a grooming had gotten had groomed enough for you to.

500
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 6: Say, well, well i'll explain what happened. Okay, it's interesting.

501
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

502
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 6: So yeah, So I was abused on that island that

503
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 6: night with the girl in a kind of a threeesome

504
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 6: situation where it was just a massage. Come in, you know,

505
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 6: Jeffer's ready for his massage, and we did a massage.

506
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 6: It was a real he did like massages, but that's

507
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 6: how he kind of opened it up, you know, lures

508
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 6: you in. It's just a massage, and then the massage

509
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 6: can turn into assault. So that's what happened on the island.

510
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 6: And then I went home disgusted and I hated this man, right,

511
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 6: so I didn't want anything to do with him. But

512
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 6: like I said, in hindsight, I think from what I

513
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 6: saw on the island, he and his women who worked

514
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 6: the secretaries were constantly calling me every single week, sometimes

515
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 6: twice or three times a week, and it was almost

516
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 6: like harassment because I kept saying, why are you calling me?

517
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 6: I'm not going to go see that man. And then

518
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 6: Jeffrey called me one day and he said Lisa. I answered,

519
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 6: and he said, Lisa, I remember what you told me

520
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 6: on the island is that you wanted to be a

521
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 6: Ford model. And I'm like yeah, and he's like, yeah,

522
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 6: well I'm friends with Katie Ford, and I'm like Katie Ford,

523
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 6: like she was the owner of Ford Model Agency at

524
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 6: that time forod models, and so I'm just like yeah,

525
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 6: and he's like, well, I know her and I think

526
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 6: that you that she would like you, and I want

527
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 6: you to go meet with her. And so that was

528
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 6: it for me. That was it because that was my

529
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 6: big goal and dream. Oh yeah, I started modeling at

530
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 6: fifteen and sixteen. I had already been working at a

531
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 6: high level and worked all around Europe and South Africa

532
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 6: and went to Greece. You know, I was working at

533
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 6: a very good level. But that was the agency, the

534
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 6: dream agency in two thousand that I want to do with.

535
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 6: And on the island he asked me, he said what

536
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 6: was your big goal? And I said, well, I want

537
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 6: to be a Ford model. I'm an actresses, I want

538
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 6: to all these things, but I want to be a

539
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 6: Ford model. And I don't know if I don't know

540
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 6: if he mentioned he knew Katie Ford back then, but

541
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 6: when he called me up on the phone four months later,

542
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 6: that was just it for me, And that's kind of

543
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 6: how it happens the grooming process. They do something big

544
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 6: for you, or if you want to be a singer,

545
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 6: it's like I know some and so right, So that

546
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 6: was kind of it for me. And after that, I

547
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 6: just went and I met with Katie Ford and from

548
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 6: there signed up with the agency and I was with

549
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 6: Ford Malling Agency for over ten years after that.

550
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: And after that? What was your relationship with him after that?

551
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 1: How was that? How did it did he feel? Did

552
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: he make I'm just wondering because I think the abusers,

553
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: they use and they yield their power in so many

554
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: different ways. Some people will be like remember that thing

555
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: I did for you, or they just keep giving you

556
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: things to keep you coming in. Right.

557
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 6: Well, we have to differentiate between these types of master

558
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 6: manipulators and abusers and the ones that just want to

559
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 6: be who go up to girls and like, I can

560
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 6: help you with your singing career, your podcast into all

561
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 6: this stuff, and they haven't really, they don't have any

562
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 6: way they're really going to do it, or even they

563
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 6: may know people in the business, but they just really

564
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 6: want one thing from you, right. I Mean, there's so

565
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 6: many of those types of men. Let's say they're men,

566
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 6: because most are men you know, in you know, Hollywood

567
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 6: and in the music business and arts and entertainment. So

568
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 6: there are men like that. Then you have these men

569
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 6: who are really good at grooming you and making you

570
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 6: trust them and making it seem like they have alter motives,

571
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 6: right that are just more silicious and more devious and dark.

572
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 6: Jeffrey is in that category, right. So whatever he was

573
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 6: doing with me was to probably keep me quiet because

574
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 6: you know, a few years later things came out about

575
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 6: him and he wanted to make sure that I wasn't talking.

576
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 6: So it was to keep what I had seen quiet.

577
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 6: And it works because when they are a person who's

578
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 6: actually doing things for you. So he did something for

579
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 6: me that was huge, That was huge, That was life

580
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 6: changing for me right right at that time of my life.

581
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 6: And so now all of a sudden, Jeffrey's a good

582
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 6: guy in my you know, my mind. Wow, it switched.

583
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 6: You want to why, because when I went to meet

584
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 6: with Katie Ford, she said, I love Jeffrey. After that,

585
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 6: he would invite you to charity events, big, you know,

586
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 6: big charity events and things, and and after that it

587
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 6: was like everyone loved him. Everyone talked highly about him.

588
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 6: He was a genius. And you have to remember who

589
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 6: we know of Jeffrey Epsteen today was not who we

590
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 6: knew of him twenty years ago. He was a powerful person,

591
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 6: but he wasn't a playboy. He never gave you drugs,

592
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 6: drugs and alcohol. He wasn't a P diddy, right, He

593
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 6: never gave you drugs and alcohol. He wasn't doing all

594
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 6: these things where people were like, oh, don't go with

595
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 6: p Didty party?

596
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 7: Right know?

597
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 6: You know, we all knew what you know Shawn Colmebs

598
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 6: was doing back then, but with Jeffrey, it was more

599
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 6: like on this higher level of powerful person, you know.

600
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 6: So it was just it was just very different. And

601
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 6: I'm a kid, like I mean.

602
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: Most of all, like I think people forget, like in

603
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: your early even like you don't know shit and you

604
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: think you know shit, and so all you know of

605
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: the world is like this person is something like huge

606
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: for me.

607
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: It's life changing.

608
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: And so there's an admiration and the love that like

609
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: in a respect that you can never like there's no

610
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 2: there's nobody else who could probably have done that for you,

611
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: and so you're just leveraging that energy and thinking like

612
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: you're in debt to this person. And I think like

613
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 2: even now when you hear like you know, the trolls

614
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: on the internet and shit like that, Like the shame

615
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: that people cast on victims is so crazy to me

616
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: because a lot of times it's like you don't even

617
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: have to be a kid to be manipulated by men.

618
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: You don't even have to be you know, like like

619
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: I said, like society grooms women this way, we super

620
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: like sweep under the carpet, like the manipulation of men,

621
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: and like how deep grooming can go into like and

622
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: to grown women, you know, like it doesn't matter how

623
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: old you are. You can think, you can feel empowered.

624
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: You can feel like powerful and still get got because

625
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: you're like, oh shit, like they just conned me real quick,

626
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: and you know, charm and personality and giving people the

627
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt because women have literally been trained

628
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: to be to be quiet and to be you know, palatable,

629
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: and to be like, oh like be nice and sweet

630
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: because if you're rowdy, then no one's going to like you.

631
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: If you make a big noise, no one's going to

632
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: like you.

633
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: So we're constantly questioning ourselves, Like damn was he being weird,

634
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: that was kind of weird, that massage.

635
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: Was weird, but then he did this.

636
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: So then you're constantly going back and forth, Like I

637
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: think we are bred in society that literally has planted

638
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: seeds of us forgetting our intuition, yes, moving away from

639
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: our bodies, moving away from the in like the natural

640
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: indicators that something is going off and something is wrong.

641
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: And so we're constantly trying to be liked and loved

642
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: by people around us and not make a lot of

643
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: noise and not like make a lot of trouble, and

644
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: so things happen to it.

645
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 4: Grooming happens to us easier, and like even in school like.

646
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: Be quiet, raise your hand, Like there's all these like

647
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: minor things that train us to shut the fuck up

648
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: essentially and to go against our own bodies. And then

649
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: shit like this happens, and then people are like, well,

650
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: why the fuck do you do that? Well, bitch, because

651
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: I love it here right.

652
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 6: No, that's what a lot of people will say to you,

653
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 6: like why didn't you why'd you fall for it? Why

654
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 6: didn't you get out? Why didn't you do this? Why

655
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 6: don't you do that? But that's the thing, like even

656
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 6: just like the power dynamic at school, the teacher, you know,

657
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 6: high school and college, the teacher and student. They they're

658
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 6: holding something over you. And you find there's so much

659
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 6: abuse actually with women with boys too in the school

660
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 6: of coming out lately too, because you know, you have

661
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 6: that power and you can get whatever, like flirtatious thing

662
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 6: that you want from the student.

663
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: And I guess there is a level of like uh

664
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: like programming that even women are given to.

665
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 4: Leverage our sexual our sexual power, that that.

666
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: It means something that we then have some type of

667
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: power over these older men, when in fact they know

668
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: what the fuck they're doing, and you feel like, oh,

669
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: I'm liked, I'm mature, he's choosing me. Oh this this

670
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: person of statue likes me than this, and like even

671
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: with the like the school dynamics, like yeah, like I

672
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: think as adults we underestimate the power dynamic because you

673
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: think that you're in your power, you feel empowered, but

674
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: then when some shit happens and you look back, you're like, oh,

675
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: what the.

676
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: Fuck just happened? It can be that quick.

677
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, like you're not even aware of it until probably

678
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 6: months or years later.

679
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: I mean I think too, I mean in the industry

680
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: that you're in, which is modeling. You're revered for your beauty,

681
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: you revered for your body. You're yielding all of these

682
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: physical qualities to book the job, to get them to

683
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: buy the product, like all these things. And so then

684
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: when you're actually when you're twenty years old, twenty one

685
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: years old, I was like, you're still figuring out even

686
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: though you've necessary, I guess, mastered in some capacity, how

687
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: to yield your sexual your sexuality, I guess in a

688
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: physical form. Mentally, there's still this little girl inside that

689
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: still doesn't even know who she is sexually, who probably

690
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: doesn't even know her body, who doesn't have the stamina

691
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: the confidence to say no in those type of situations

692
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: where there's like a power dynamic, and also there's a

693
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: way there's also where we leave our bodies too, Like

694
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: in situations we're like, okay, well it's just that one time,

695
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: it's fine, and like we were having this conversation on

696
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: camera where like you start to think, well, I've given

697
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: my bodies, I've had sex with people for less, so

698
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: it's fine. I've had that one night stand and I

699
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: woke up and I was like, what the fuck did

700
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: I do? And so at least I'm gonna get something

701
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: from this, and then you're like not realizing how much

702
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: harm you're actually doing to yourself because it was actually

703
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: easier to get nothing.

704
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 6: It's funny you say that because a lot of users

705
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 6: will say that you'll just go with the you know,

706
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 6: a guy your age, and it like they use abusy,

707
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 6: So why can't you be with me when I'm actually

708
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 6: doing something for you. You're actually gonna get something out

709
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 6: of it, right, And then.

710
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: You're like, well that's kind of true.

711
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: Ye You're like, yeah, I have slept with so and

712
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: so from fucking the ninth grade and he's stupid. You know,

713
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 2: there is and there's a level like you said, like

714
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: of like oh he chose me, and that means I

715
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: have something special and like I'm special because I'm with

716
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: Even in movies, like if you look at even like media,

717
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: like older rich men are depicted as something like to

718
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: be like surprized.

719
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, to be desired.

720
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: When did this abuse stop?

721
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 6: I went on for about three or four years?

722
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: Okay, and what was it?

723
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 5: Was it?

724
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: You that were just like finally stopped? Likely enough is enough?

725
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: I'm not going to like, well.

726
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 6: I feel like I couldn't I couldn't never get away.

727
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 6: You know, I just always felt like this person, like

728
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 6: how am I supposed to just stop going to see him?

729
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 6: Because I was also getting something out of in a

730
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 6: way that he was like a mentor to me, and

731
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 6: he was also this genius. So when I would go

732
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,479
Speaker 6: visit him, I always felt like, Wow, I just want

733
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 6: to pick his brain. I want to learn more, you know,

734
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 6: when he would tell me little secrets, I felt like

735
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 6: I was like in with him, or invite myself friends

736
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 6: to dinner parties or like charity events or Broadway shows,

737
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 6: and was always a group of people, and I felt

738
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 6: like I was part of it all. You know. It

739
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 6: wasn't until it was like okay, you're ready for your

740
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 6: massage and it's like, how do I get out of here?

741
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: You know, then you feel like indebted, Yes exactly, but

742
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: we got the tickets, go to the dinner, and now

743
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck, Okay, I knew this was coming, and

744
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: now I kind of have to do it.

745
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 6: Well, that's how it is with all abuse, because it's

746
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 6: always a good and bad and every because it was

747
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 6: all bad, you would never go back right right, But

748
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 6: it's the good. They're always even abusive relationship is always

749
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 6: the good husband for a while fifty percent of the time,

750
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 6: maybe even up to seventy percent of the time, and

751
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 6: then he beats you. Right, So it's like this always

752
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 6: this cognitive dissonance that you have in your mind. I've

753
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 6: had that for years in other relationships too, where it's

754
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 6: this good, this constant good that they feed you and

755
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 6: feed you, but then they then it's.

756
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: Abuse, well because they know how to, they know how

757
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: to like get you really really really high and make

758
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: you feel really really good, and then they snatch it

759
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: from you. And then you're always trying to scramble back

760
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: to this person that you once knew and this this time,

761
00:34:58,760 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 2: and you're.

762
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 4: Like, wait, well, where's that person?

763
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: And it's almost like you're in competition with yourself because

764
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: you're like, if I can if I could have got

765
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: this this version of him this time, then eventually this other,

766
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: this version is going to come back out, and then

767
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: you're constantly like what the fuck.

768
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, And you're constantly going out and everyone's saying what

769
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 6: an amazing person is. Everybody back then said that he

770
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 6: was the most amazing person. I used to say it, right, so.

771
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: And then like on top of this, him you're in

772
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 1: an industry where you're constantly fighting for your life and

773
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: genuinely like and I can only imagine like photographers, and

774
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: just like the constant like interference and boundary crossing that

775
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: you're already dealing with on top of this assault.

776
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 6: And this like you know, so thinking it's normal.

777
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: So you're just like it's like I feel it everywhere.

778
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 6: You know, in older men and younger women. You see

779
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 6: a lot in like parties and things like that.

780
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: Still, what like now that you're stepped away and you're

781
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: out of that part of your life, when you're looking

782
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: back on that in those times, like, do you see

783
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: like the ways in which this assault was like affecting

784
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: affecting you in different ways, like the way you showed up.

785
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if like you fell into any any

786
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: habits or anything for coping. What were those ways? Oh?

787
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 6: For to suppress the memories, I would go out like

788
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 6: I was like a socialite, a big social light back then.

789
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 6: I would go to all the parties and the events,

790
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 6: and you know, drink alcohol and I've used drugs, you know,

791
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 6: and things like that, just to kind of suppress the memories,

792
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 6: because it absolutely does work. I don't I don't advise

793
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 6: you to do it that way, but it works in

794
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 6: a way. I'm just like, oh, I've forgotten about.

795
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 4: It for so long.

796
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you have a bad episode, you know what

797
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 6: I mean? And then you know, something horrible happens, and

798
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 6: then you wanted to go out drinking and partying that night.

799
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 6: Because also on the flip side of that, you feel worthless, right,

800
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 6: and there's a lot of shame that comes with it,

801
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 6: and in your mind like what am I doing? How

802
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 6: do I get out of this? And then you can't

803
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 6: talk to people, you can't say hey.

804
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: You know.

805
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 6: The crazy thing about that is is in the three

806
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 6: and a half years that I knew him, it wasn't

807
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 6: until my girlfriend came to me crying that said to me,

808
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 6: you don't know who Jeffrey is, Like, you don't know

809
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 6: who this man is?

810
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: Like what do you mean?

811
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 6: Because she has some different experiences and and she's just like,

812
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 6: you know, he made me do something that was really awful.

813
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 6: You know, he made her go into a room in

814
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 6: his house and have sex with someone, and he made

815
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 6: her do it. And after that she was like, who

816
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 6: are you? Like, why would you make me do that?

817
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 6: And remember I remember he's recording everything, like filming, filming

818
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 6: as cameras everywhere in a room in his house in

819
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 6: his Upper East Side biggest mansion, or a townhouse in Manhattan,

820
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 6: and he's filming everything, every room, everything that goes on.

821
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: So people know that they are being filmed.

822
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 6: I mean, we knew there were cameras in there, but

823
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 6: probably not the men that are going in rare and

824
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 6: probably didn't know because I mean, the girls are young girls,

825
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 6: and if they're not under age, a younger girl, let's

826
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 6: say twenty four and under, I would say that's about

827
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 6: the age range. You know, they're not doing it for fun.

828
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 6: They're not doing because they want to go sleep with

829
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 6: the prince or go to sleep with this guy or

830
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 6: this fat lawyer or this like, you know, whatever it

831
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 6: is that they're disgusting some of these men, but he's

832
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 6: making them do that, do this as the women that

833
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 6: have come out and spoken out about it, and it's

834
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 6: awful because he's using you, right, he's making you feel

835
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 6: like I'm doing all these things for you, but he's

836
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 6: using you. So that that didn't happen to me. That

837
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 6: happened to my best friend at the time, and after

838
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 6: she told me that, I was like, what do you

839
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 6: mean he made you go into a room and have

840
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 6: sex with this guy?

841
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 5: You know?

842
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 6: Said, I didn't understand it because that was getting so

843
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 6: much darker.

844
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: Than what I thought it was. I thought it was

845
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: just light. You know.

846
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 6: You think it's light because you see these things happen

847
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 6: parties and you know lots of people who maybe flirt

848
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 6: with somebody or maybe even have sex with them to

849
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 6: you know, get a movie roll or get this or

850
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 6: get that so that you know that kind of stuff happens.

851
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 6: But when it's on a darker level where he's taking

852
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 6: these women and introducing you to these older, powerful men

853
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 6: who still the list has not come out.

854
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: Right do you think that list will ever come out?

855
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 6: All they did was release a list who showed up

856
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 6: at his parties in that island. Who cares Oprah or

857
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 6: whoever showed up doesn't mean they know anything that's going

858
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 6: on right right right, So the list know the powerful men,

859
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 6: the ones that I know and the ones that my

860
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 6: friends know about, have never come out.

861
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: Because they're paying big bucks to make sure that shit

862
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 2: never comes out because the video someone has these videos

863
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: store never. People are getting paid off majorly not to

864
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: release that shit.

865
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 6: Well, the most powerful and wealthiest people in America, so

866
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 6: it's never going to come out.

867
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: So when that happened, that was when when your friend

868
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: shared this with you. What did that do? What did

869
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: that do to you?

870
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 6: Well, it just was like quite a second. Well first

871
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 6: I was just like scared death. But I went to

872
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 6: go see Jeffrey after that and kind of confronted him

873
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 6: because I wanted to get out of like this whole

874
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 6: web I was in with him. And after that, I mean,

875
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 6: she told me I would think March or April, and

876
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 6: I had left New York by May and moved to

877
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 6: Los Angeles. It was two thousand and.

878
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: Four, and that was the biggest reason why.

879
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, I lovet because of him with.

880
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: That conversation, like when he when you brought that to him.

881
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 6: Well, he just the one thing I've always remembered. He said,

882
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 6: I like to have things on people.

883
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: I like to have things on people.

884
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 6: So it was just getting so dark.

885
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: And he meant that to you as well, like he

886
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: was threatening you.

887
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 6: There's something that happened that day that I've never really

888
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 6: talked about that went pretty dark. And after that I

889
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 6: knew what kind of person he was. But years up

890
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 6: until then, I was always saying, Deffrey's amazing, He's great.

891
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 1: You know.

892
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 6: My parents' house was not that far from his home

893
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 6: that he owned owned in New Mexico. My parents lived

894
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 6: in New Mexico at the time, and so you know,

895
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 6: I would go to his house and like ride horses.

896
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 6: He wasn't there, you know, he was like part of

897
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 6: Like he would send gifts to my parents' house. In

898
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 6: the little Black Book that came out, my parents' number

899
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 6: was in it, you know, So like I knew him,

900
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 6: and I always thought, like, Okay, I have things that

901
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 6: I don't want to talk about. But he was also

902
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 6: part of my life and a mentor and a really

903
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 6: good mentor of you know things that he really taught

904
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 6: me about life and business. And he started the businesses

905
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 6: of many of my friends. He put them through college,

906
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 6: He bought computers. He introduced a lot of friends to

907
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 6: their husbands. Like this is a man who did major

908
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 6: things for young women. So a lot of people loved

909
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 6: and adored him during that time, and he was part

910
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 6: of things. So when it came out in two thousand

911
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 6: and six that he and Gallaine Maxwell were actually abusing

912
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 6: underage girls, that's when everybody flipped the script on Jeffrey Epstein.

913
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 6: It was after we found out about underage because the

914
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 6: over age eighteen to twenty five, I mean everybody, that's fine,

915
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 6: and we're doing that right, those kinds of things, so

916
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 6: it wasn't unheard of. So what really hurt Jeffrey was

917
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 6: finding out about these underage girls. And these girls were

918
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 6: not like the eighteen to twenty five in New York

919
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 6: City that were ambitious and beautiful actresses and models. And

920
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 6: you know, he helped a lot of these women. He

921
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 6: was hurting me, hurt the other women too, but he

922
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 6: was hurting the underage his children. These children were from

923
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 6: like rough parts of town. They were already addicted to

924
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 6: drugs or came from abusive families. And Glaine and she's

925
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 6: in prison now, you know, I went to her trial.

926
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: That was what also. But his lover, right, wasn't I supposedly.

927
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 6: I guess then back in the day and then she

928
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 6: was in his circle of powerful people and helping to

929
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 6: find I mean literally going to look for these underage

930
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 6: mostly blonde or you know, white females.

931
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: Right, she's in jail forever, I'm hoping or what's coming?

932
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 6: Did she get sentenced she got sentenced, but probably not forever.

933
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: Wow.

934
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 6: To be the only woman, the only person that's gone

935
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 6: to jail for everything that Jeffrey Epsen has done is

936
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 6: a woman.

937
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: Interesting, that's crazy. It's interesting that she even like as

938
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: a one. Like a lot of times abusers have women

939
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 2: to help. Oh, that's like always it makes it makes

940
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: it feel comfortable, safer. Yeah, but that's always like astonishing

941
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: to me because what the fuck like that a woman

942
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: would do that to another woman.

943
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 6: But I mean probably, yeah, I didn't care about these

944
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 6: young girls. And she's from a royal family, or not

945
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 6: a royal family, but a wealthy family in England with

946
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 6: friends with Prince Andrew and all those people and stuff.

947
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 6: So I think she just looked down on these young

948
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 6: girls like there were nothing. I mean, I've ever heard

949
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 6: that she said that about them. So it's this whole

950
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 6: level of evil.

951
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: How do you feel, like, you know, reflecting back on

952
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: the situation and then like thinking about just your childhood,

953
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: was there anything that like is correlated in like any

954
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: sort of experiences or the childhood of that could have

955
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: contributed to you feeling powerless?

956
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 6: Well, I mean it's funny you say that, but the

957
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 6: childhood I think the first seven years is it defines

958
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 6: all of us for the rest of our lives.

959
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: Right.

960
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 6: So the childhood is funny thing because I would have

961
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 6: never have said. I always said I had a great childhood.

962
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 6: Traveled all around the world, you know, and went to

963
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 6: great schools, and had supportive parents that you know, we're

964
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 6: always there for me. My mom stayed at home, my

965
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 6: dad worked, I had everything I wanted, popular are lots

966
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 6: of friends. I always said I had a great childhood.

967
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 6: But to answer question, I never had like a relationship

968
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 6: with my parents that I felt loved and adored and

969
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 6: cared for. And I never felt like they were proud

970
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 6: of me. You know. I always had a little bit

971
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 6: of shame maybe about my childhood, and that had to

972
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 6: do with my parents. My dad never really called me

973
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 6: and checked on me, how are you doing, you know,

974
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 6: and telling me I saw you on TV or I

975
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 6: did this because I was very successful in my twenties.

976
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 6: I was always on TV maybe five ten commercials every

977
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 6: that were popular commercials, and you know, in magazines and

978
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 6: things like that. I never felt like nobody gave a

979
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 6: shit about me, to be honest. So I think when

980
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 6: Jeffrey gave me that attention that it's a father figure

981
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 6: would give you, not a playboy, it was a father

982
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 6: figure mentor. I was just desperate for it, you know, Yeah,

983
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 6: I was desperate for it. So I just wanted I

984
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 6: like that attention from a man. I did, and I

985
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 6: like learning from him, and I felt like someone cared about.

986
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: Me right here, giving you guidance, giving you support.

987
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 6: I did, and that's why. Also when he died, I

988
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 6: still get emotional when he died. When I saw him

989
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 6: the news that he died, I felt like part of

990
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 6: me had died. So sick to say that because of

991
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 6: who he is, but a part of but he was

992
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 6: a part of my life for a few years that

993
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 6: I looked up to and he was a mentor to me.

994
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 6: So it was confusing, very right, So you feel kind

995
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 6: of like a family member died. I feel differently now

996
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 6: now because I've been on this journey and I've met

997
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 6: with survivors and I know now what I was, what

998
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 6: I was going through, and what I went through, and

999
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 6: I'm very much aware of the abuse that I went through,

1000
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 6: where a few years ago I didn't even think about it.

1001
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 6: It almost like it didn't even happen. And I've had

1002
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 6: to go through many years of therapy to actually talk

1003
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 6: about it. And it took me three or four months

1004
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 6: even to start talking about the abuse that happened to me

1005
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 6: at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein.

1006
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: You know, I think people underestimate the fact that like

1007
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: a lot of times, your abuser is someone that you

1008
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: admire and love, and that it's usually generally very confusing.

1009
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter like if something happens to you very

1010
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: young or like it's it's a lot of times in

1011
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: order to be groomed, you have to you have to

1012
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: grow an affinity for that person in order for them

1013
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: to be for you to be vulnerable enough.

1014
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: To let it happen.

1015
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: And I think people like particularly men or people who

1016
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: are looking from the outside and like, are not recognizing

1017
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: how deeply intricate those relationships actually are. Even to like

1018
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 2: childhood shit, when like you're you know, kids are molested,

1019
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: it's like you're you're also being aroused, so your body

1020
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 2: is responding in a way that it feels good because

1021
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: this is what your body does, and then.

1022
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: That feels very confusing.

1023
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: I think even for me, I was molested for a

1024
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: long time growing up, and it took me a long

1025
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 2: time to even consider it that because it was from

1026
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: someone who's close to me. It's a female, she's a

1027
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: little bit older than me. Like I thought, like, this

1028
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 2: is what kids do, very normal. I thought this was

1029
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 2: normal normalcy. And as I started to go get older

1030
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: and talk to other people and like just educate myself

1031
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: more and just these conversations become more like on the forefront,

1032
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: I recognized that, Like in my adulthood, when I would

1033
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: be in situations with boys that I did like, but

1034
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: I didn't want to keep going. I would just freeze

1035
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 2: and shut up. I would freeze, and I there was

1036
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: like a specific moment where I remember like saying no, no, no,

1037
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: and then I.

1038
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: Just literally checked out. And I was like, what the

1039
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: fuck is that?

1040
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: Even in my own head, like that's weird that I

1041
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: could just check out, but recognizing like as a kid,

1042
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: I did that, and so our bodies, how our bodies

1043
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 2: deal with trauma in childhood. It's like if you cannot

1044
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 2: handle the big emotion, if you cannot process it, that's

1045
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: how your body protects you. Your body, your psyche is

1046
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 2: protecting you. So you do forget, you do freeze, you

1047
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: do literally tether from your body because you can't handle

1048
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: what's going on. And so if that is something that

1049
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: has happened to you in childhood or you know, early

1050
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,919
Speaker 2: developmental ages, is as you're getting older, that is something

1051
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 2: that you will your body will automatically do to protect itself,

1052
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: and so you just think you're protecting yourself. And same

1053
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 2: like even as an adult, Like in my thirties, I

1054
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: was raped and I would never even say that word

1055
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: until I had a client. I was doing her lashes

1056
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 2: and she was raped by someone she was having sex

1057
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 2: with on a regular basis, but this one particular time,

1058
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: he would not stop and she was telling me about it,

1059
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: and the client was a little bit kooky, a little

1060
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,439
Speaker 2: bit crazy, and I was like, she's crazy a little

1061
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 2: bit and I was like, uh huh. And you know,

1062
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 2: she came back three weeks later to get her lashes

1063
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 2: refilled and she was like, you know, I've told my

1064
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 2: friends that story and none of them said I'm sorry.

1065
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 2: None of them they were all like judging me. And

1066
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: in that moment I realized fun I judged her.

1067
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 4: And then in that.

1068
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: Moment again, as I keep going, I'm like, bitch, you

1069
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 1: were raped.

1070
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: It took all of those steps to acknowledge that I

1071
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: was a not having any empathy for this woman because

1072
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: it was someone that she had had, you know, voluntary

1073
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: sex with before and she's an adult. And then it

1074
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: took her step further part to be like, my friends

1075
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: didn't even like show up in a caring way, and

1076
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 2: I was like, damn, I didn't really I didn't really

1077
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: feel And then that moment, I was like, bitch, this

1078
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: happened to you very recently by someone that you love

1079
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: and that you had sex with voluntarily, so you didn't

1080
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: I didn't even think to consider this thing rape.

1081
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: And it just it took.

1082
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: A lot even for me to say the word rape

1083
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 2: because it's such a heavy word that women are mostly

1084
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: told not to say.

1085
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: And also so like putting that putting that word on

1086
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: your abuse or feels like heavy, too heavy, because that

1087
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: you can't take it back.

1088
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 2: You can't say that, yeah, that like it's like it's.

1089
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 4: It's it's it's a weird thing for women.

1090
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: It's a weird thing in general because if I then

1091
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: call you a rapist, then that's what you are, and

1092
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: then then I'm in it. Then I have then I'm

1093
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 2: a victim, and then I'm a victim and then I

1094
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: haven't done anything. And there's all these there's all these

1095
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: layers to abuse and how it starts and how it

1096
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: like and how it continues and how it plants its

1097
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 2: seeds in your life as an adult. And even now

1098
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 2: in this very moment, like I've had shit happened to me,

1099
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 2: like it, even in this process of like good Moms

1100
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: talking every week for fucking seven years, I feel very empowered.

1101
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 4: I feel very confident.

1102
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: So I thought, so I think you know, and so

1103
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: I have been put in situations as an adult like

1104
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: I never even said anything about this on the podcast.

1105
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: But when I went to school for TANTRA, a school

1106
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: that is supposed to be trauma informed, well, we learned

1107
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: about sexual assaults specifically and trauma. The night of my graduation,

1108
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 2: a teacher who had comforted me and supported me through

1109
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 2: like a release that had to do with sexual assault,

1110
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: then groped me and said something like rubbed his fucking

1111
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: bare body on the back of me and said like

1112
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 2: basically he wanted to have sex with me, and I

1113
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 2: fucking froze.

1114
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 4: And I just didn't know what. I literally didn't do anything,

1115
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 4: and I didn't.

1116
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 2: Know what else to do, and I didn't even like

1117
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 2: I The next day, I was so like other people

1118
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: saw other students, everyone noticed what was happening, except the

1119
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 2: people who were supposed.

1120
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: To notice what was happening.

1121
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 6: But I did that in front of everyone.

1122
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did.

1123
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: His wife was there what At one point, the owner

1124
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: of the school was there.

1125
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 4: Apparently nobody noticed any of this behavior.

1126
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 2: The next day, I called Orlando and I was like, Yo,

1127
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: this shit so and so happened. And I was like,

1128
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell on him, and He's like,

1129
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about. I was like,

1130
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: I don't want him to get in trouble. I even

1131
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: said to one of the other students. She was like,

1132
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: let's go back there and tell the other teacher. I

1133
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to tell the white man.

1134
00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell the white man on the

1135
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: black man. And she was like, that's the only other

1136
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: man that there is. And I was like, hold the

1137
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: fuck is this guy that I'm protected.

1138
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: Protecting this black man for what?

1139
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 2: And I just recognized, like in that moment, like I

1140
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: started to unravel and I was just like I literally

1141
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 2: even when I called I called the founder of the school.

1142
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 2: I was shaking and I had two students around me,

1143
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: like I'll support you while you do this call, and

1144
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, still not really processing why am I shaking

1145
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: from something something so much deeper? And even when I

1146
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 2: called her, I said, please don't say anything. I don't

1147
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: want him to get in trouble.

1148
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 6: You're protecting him.

1149
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 4: I was like, I like literally reverted back into childhood.

1150
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: I was like five years old, and I couldn't even

1151
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: understand it. Like someone who feels confident, someone who feels empowered,

1152
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 2: someone who I feel like I use my voice often.

1153
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 2: In this moment, like all that shit went out the window.

1154
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 2: I had just finished a two year course about fucking

1155
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: trauma and sexual shit, and I could not even understand

1156
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 2: while I was reacting this way.

1157
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize.

1158
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 2: It was just something that immediately made me just say

1159
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: I don't want to do it. And it took like

1160
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: a lot to kind of start peeling back the layers

1161
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: of why I reacted this way, why I allowed it

1162
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: to happen, why I didn't just say, like, yo, what

1163
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 2: are you doing? Like I didn't say any of these things,

1164
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 2: and in fact, nobody did, even the wife who was

1165
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 2: over in the corner peeping shit, because she also froze

1166
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: because this was a bad situation. And even even I

1167
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: didn't even think that in that situation because I'm a

1168
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: grown ass adult, like I'm not in high school, I'm

1169
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 2: not in college. This is like a post you know,

1170
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: like an adult college essentially. I still felt so deeply

1171
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 2: about this power dynamic that this was my teacher and

1172
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 2: this administrator, like you know, this administration. I didn't want

1173
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: to disappoint anyone, but it just it took me, like

1174
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 2: it's that happened almost two years ago, a year and

1175
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 2: a half ago, and it still weighs on me because

1176
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: I wanted it to just go away. I wanted to

1177
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 2: just be done with school, graduate, be happy, go into

1178
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 2: this practice that I spent all the money in.

1179
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: But it's it.

1180
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: Has lingered and lingered and lingered and lingered because I

1181
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: didn't say anything. I had someone recently tell me, like

1182
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to that school, and I was like, okay,

1183
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 2: you know, like should I say something? Is this going

1184
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: to discredit like all the education that I got. Is

1185
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: this going to like, you know, why didn't I do anything?

1186
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 4: But I'm like, this is.

1187
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: How deeply rooted this shit is because it doesn't like

1188
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 2: you can be confident, you can be empowered, you can

1189
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: have kids. All these things can happen, and you can

1190
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 2: still become a victim because in the moment.

1191
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: You a lot of times revert. And we know, like

1192
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: women are not trained in this.

1193
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,359
Speaker 2: We're just now getting to a place where we can

1194
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: have these conversations and be like this happened to me

1195
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: and not feel like discarded, not feel worthless because of it,

1196
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: and also know like this shit had nothing to do

1197
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: with me, Like and it's and it's it's scary that

1198
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: shit scared me. And there's been times in my adulthood,

1199
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 2: like I said, these separate, you know, incidents where I'm like,

1200
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: what the fuck who am I? And it makes me

1201
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 2: realize there's something so much deeper, like that's like implanted

1202
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: in me, like that this is how I react that

1203
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 2: I literally check out of my body. And it happens

1204
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 2: like in certain situations you'll notice like if you just

1205
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 2: don't have any feeling at all, you go numb, it's

1206
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: because you're checking out of your fucking body because that's

1207
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: what's safe for you, and that's what's protected you. And

1208
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: like it takes a lot of time to recon to

1209
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 2: say like you're safe and you don't have to check out.

1210
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,919
Speaker 2: You can stay here and deal with these feelings. They're

1211
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 2: not too big. But I just like, even in having

1212
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: the reluctancy to even say it here, to the reluctancy

1213
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: to say it to my man, the reluctancy like when

1214
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: he got hype, I was like, Yo, calm down, this is.

1215
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 6: The first time you've talked about it.

1216
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:45,919
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1217
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the first time I ever talked down

1218
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 2: on the air. And because I don't feel like, I

1219
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: don't feel like they did enough. I don't feel I

1220
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: feel like after I had conversations with the woman who

1221
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: owned the school and I was like, this has caused

1222
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 2: a lot of issues, and her response was this is good.

1223
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 2: It was time to you know, look at these things.

1224
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: Everyone should go to therapy. And that's crazy, you know

1225
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 2: what I mean. And it made me realize like this

1226
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 2: person who I was like looking at as like this

1227
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 2: amazing person with all this information, which the information is great.

1228
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 2: What I got from it was great. How the situation

1229
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 2: was dealt with was not great. Like the whatever training

1230
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 2: that you go into, like when you're dealing with women

1231
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: in sex specifically, there's a lot of vulnerabilities there and

1232
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 2: the people who are in that space need to be

1233
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: trained times ten. And I don't think that was what

1234
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 2: happened there, and it made me it let me, let

1235
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 2: me leave with a lot of shame. I felt shame

1236
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 2: that I didn't say anything. I didn't make a bigger

1237
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: deal about it that I you know, until this day,

1238
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 2: like I don't feel good about it. And it just

1239
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: it just it just brought up a lot of things

1240
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 2: that I didn't recognize were unresolved and that I hadn't

1241
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: worked through. And like even right now, Erica and I

1242
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: are in this or in a queen healing program with

1243
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 2: Goddess Jesse at the Sweet Love Sanctuary, and you know,

1244
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: we're going through like a twelve week process of different

1245
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 2: different things are I mean, it's come up and you know,

1246
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 2: recently in week six we were talking about are just

1247
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: like our relationships with our pussies, experiences that we've had

1248
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: using our pussies for bad and are like you know,

1249
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: selling it for less than it's worth energetically and finance,

1250
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: like just actually tangible money and just like have you

1251
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: ever been in a situation like just posing questions that

1252
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: I think in adulthood is women and just as people

1253
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 2: who have experienced sexual assault, you you can just live

1254
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: your life and move forward without ever having to think

1255
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: about these things again. But when they're like questions are

1256
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: posed to like have you ever been a situation where

1257
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: you did something sexual you didn't want to do? Hell yeah,

1258
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: for years and years and years, and even in my

1259
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 2: college years, getting so drunk, getting blacked out, drunk because

1260
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 2: I'm suppressing something, not because I'm partying and it's fun

1261
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,959
Speaker 2: because bitch, you're hurt, and not even connecting those two

1262
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 2: things even to the point like recently, I was like

1263
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 2: with my man and he choked me and like being

1264
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 2: like on some kinki, like being intimate, and I I

1265
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: passed out a little bit and when I woke up

1266
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: it probably was like eight seconds. But I had a

1267
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: moment where I was like where am I? And immediately

1268
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: I felt shame. Immediately I felt guilt, I felt scared,

1269
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 2: and it made me feel like I was in my

1270
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: twenties blacked out somewhere with somebody I didn't know or recognize,

1271
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 2: and I immediately started crying and he's like, whoa are

1272
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 2: you okay? I was like no, and I couldn't even

1273
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: say what was bothering?

1274
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 7: Me.

1275
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 2: I couldn't even put into words like that. This felt

1276
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 2: eerily familiar. And just recognizing that, like by suppressing these

1277
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: feelings by not ha like even in girlfriend's situations, like

1278
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 2: has there been a time or someone's done something to

1279
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 2: you that you haven't acknowledged it is this is where

1280
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 2: h the healing happens. If we can't have the conversations,

1281
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: we will never address the thing. And the thing about

1282
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 2: Tantra is what I did learn is like that shit

1283
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 2: doesn't go anywhere.

1284
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 4: It lives in your body. The body keeps the score.

1285
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 2: So even if you think you've forgotten, if you keep

1286
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: sweeping shit under the carpet, bitch, it's going to come up.

1287
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously in this chapter of my life,

1288
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of work and I'm in a

1289
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 2: really safe relationship and I can have these conversations. And

1290
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: even then, I recognize when I have memories come up

1291
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 2: and I'm not ready to talk about them, and I

1292
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: leave them there until I'm ready to revisit them, Okay,

1293
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 2: And like it is a it's a process, and I

1294
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 2: just I know that there are so many women who

1295
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 2: have experienced shit like this, and you're listening and you're like, damn,

1296
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 2: I wanted to leave that there, and I'm encouraging you

1297
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 2: to like look at it, you know, like go on

1298
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 2: your body and find where that memory lives and kind

1299
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 2: of trace that thread, because I think a lot of

1300
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 2: us think that we can cut it and you can't.

1301
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: It lives like those those things live and when you

1302
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 2: give birth, you know, like epigenetics, And I'm thinking of

1303
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 2: us all as black women, you know. I was just

1304
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: looking at something today about the vessel and how you know,

1305
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 2: just like historically, when when you have all your value

1306
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 2: and like historically our vessel, there's so much has been

1307
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: put on the vessel, how we start to move in

1308
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: that way? And for a long time, I was like,

1309
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: I'm powerful. I could fuck over I want. I don't

1310
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: give a fuck because I don't care, because it was

1311
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 2: me trying to say that, like even if someone has

1312
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: done something to me, now I'm I'm in control now

1313
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 2: when I haven't been, I've just fucking suppressed and wilding

1314
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: the fuck out and thinking that like just you know,

1315
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: bearing it more and more and more and doing more

1316
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: is just going to make it go away, and when

1317
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: in fact, I'm just fucking burying myself deeper in the shit.

1318
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 6: But I'm just that makes you feel powerful still.

1319
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 2: No, No, yeah, Like I'm like I'm a kept woman,

1320
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: Like I'm not like, of course I have whole tendencies.

1321
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm a very sexual person. Like I like my sexual part.

1322
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 2: And I think that's another thing for women too, is

1323
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: like we are innately sexual, we give birth, we create,

1324
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 2: but it's been so demonized. So there's like this weird

1325
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: we don't we're not in connection with it, but we're

1326
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: being used for it, and so it's it's it's like

1327
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 2: a oppressive.

1328
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 4: Energy inside of us.

1329
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 2: It's like I want to be sexual and I feel

1330
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: I feel connected to my sensuality, but also I hate it.

1331
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: There's so many women.

1332
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 2: Who like completely suppress that part of them because it's

1333
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: like if I don't give attention to anyone, if I

1334
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 2: cover up, then maybe I'm no one's gonna see me,

1335
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 2: maybe I won't be hurt again.

1336
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 4: But we all know that doesn't make a difference.

1337
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: I mean it goes both ways. There's that there's that woman,

1338
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: and then there's the woman who's over using, using her

1339
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: sexual proudness for protection, yeah, for protection, to forget to

1340
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: feel powerful because she doesn't feel in control, but she

1341
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: feels like, oh, I can control these niggas right here,

1342
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: and they and I don't give a fuck about them.

1343
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm somehow in control when really you're not.

1344
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: And I think, like, I like, it's just like such

1345
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: a it's just a cycle that will continue and continue.

1346
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: Like you said, like your body keeps the score. It

1347
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 1: doesn't just leave, it stays. And I think too, as women,

1348
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: we often downplay the trauma too, because it's like, oh,

1349
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: and like I hear your story or I hear her story,

1350
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, mine isn't that bad, So I

1351
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: think it's so hot I think get raped. So maybe it's.

1352
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 4: Like I should I shouldn't take away the intention from

1353
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 4: something that's actually a really bad abuse.

1354
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and like yeah, and women historically we've done that.

1355
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: I've done that a lot in my life, not just

1356
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: even just like sexual assault, but just in life in general,

1357
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: downplaying the things that have deeply affected me because it

1358
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 1: wasn't it didn't feel substantial enough to the next person's story.

1359
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: And so I think it's so important for us to

1360
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: have these type of conversations so that we understand that, Okay, yes,

1361
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: there is a spectrum. At the end of the day,

1362
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: it's one thing, you know, like it's one thing, and

1363
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: it's trauma, and it's hurt and it's pain, and the

1364
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: beauty of all of it is that you can heal

1365
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: from it. You can. You can't access it, you have

1366
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: you have the power to access it, but you have

1367
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 1: to you have to face it, you have to sit

1368
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: with it. You have to say, oh my god, yeah,

1369
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: these are big things, big feelings, and I'm ready to now,

1370
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: like conquer it one thing at a time, though, because

1371
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,439
Speaker 1: it can feel totally overwhelming, We're like, where the fuck

1372
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: do I even start, you know, And so I guess

1373
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: my question for you is like where did you start?

1374
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: Where did you start on.

1375
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 6: The healing journey? Here? For me, first acknowledging what happened,

1376
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 6: you know, the acknowledgment of what happened, and finding people

1377
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 6: that I could speak to that I trusted, where it

1378
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 6: felt like a safe place for me. So when I

1379
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 6: started speaking out, I mean I had best friends, friends,

1380
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 6: boyfriend and listen to me, family members that didn't want

1381
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 6: to support and so I had to go and look.

1382
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 6: Where I went was to other survivors, usually of the

1383
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 6: same abuser or just anyone who's survivors, which is why

1384
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 6: the podcast came about. But I wanted to just speak

1385
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 6: to women who under stood what I had gone through

1386
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 6: then weren't going to judge because I found as I

1387
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 6: was speaking out, oh, just everyone just judges you so much,

1388
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 6: like you're the bad person, or you stayed in an

1389
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 6: abusive relationship, or why did you do that, and just

1390
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 6: everything that just makes you just want to clam up

1391
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 6: and not talk about it, your abuse. So but I

1392
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 6: was ready to because I'm just because you know, it

1393
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 6: was in the news and everything, and the survivors were

1394
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 6: speaking out and I knew that I had a very

1395
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 6: similar story. So I connected with other survivors. Many of

1396
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 6: them started a group chat. We started speaking on the

1397
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 6: phone for hours, and I lost a lot of some

1398
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 6: of my family and some friends, you know, through through

1399
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 6: this journey, and to me, that was the hardest part

1400
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 6: of just not having your closest family and friends really

1401
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 6: support you. That was hard for me. But I you know,

1402
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 6: as you do a podcast, you meet so many wonderful

1403
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 6: people and you build all these new friendships. So that's

1404
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 6: been really helpful for me the healing journey. That and

1405
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 6: also EMDR therapy. I was telling you before, EMDR therapy

1406
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 6: is just has changed my life. So it's a type

1407
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 6: of therapy. It's not just talking. You use rapid eye movement,

1408
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 6: so there's flashlights where your eyes are moving back and

1409
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 6: forth like this, back and forth, and it's going into

1410
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 6: certain parts of your memory. And you have pulse pulsators

1411
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 6: in your hand going back and forth, and you have

1412
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 6: the music going back and forth. There's all these different things,

1413
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 6: and it really makes you go back into suppressed thoughts

1414
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 6: and memories that you kind of don't want to talk

1415
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 6: about or think about, or that you're just literally suppressing.

1416
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 6: It means that you don't want anything to do with

1417
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 6: it anymore. But as you both were saying, when you

1418
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 6: go through this whole healing journey, it's like you have

1419
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 6: to really own it, the good, bad, the ugly. You

1420
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 6: really have to own what you went through and talk

1421
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 6: about it and then you can finally move into healing

1422
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:53,919
Speaker 6: from it.

1423
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: Right.

1424
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 6: But I mean, for so many years I just suppressed

1425
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 6: it and didn't think about it.

1426
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: When those feelings come up, I'm thinking because for me,

1427
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: my memory is something that I'm always really insecure about,

1428
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: Like I feel so worried about when I'm getting old

1429
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: and I'm like, am I going to remember my life?

1430
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time remembering things. And as

1431
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: I've been in this work with Goddess Jesse in the

1432
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: Queen Healing Circle, I've just realized that I think so

1433
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: much of my suppression is because as a child, I

1434
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: was going through different traumatic events and I didn't know

1435
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: where to put them, and so I put everything in

1436
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: one box. And so now I put everything in one box.

1437
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: Even the good shit is in one box. Like I

1438
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: can't even remember good memories. They're all in one box,

1439
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 1: and they're just kind of like it's like this foggy

1440
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: glass where it's like I can see it, but I

1441
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: can't really like see the detail that. And so through meditation,

1442
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: through a lot of generational healing, ancestral healing, it's there's

1443
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 1: little things that are starting. Even me interviewing my family

1444
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 1: this week, part is part of my process of like

1445
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: trying to like access things and remember things. But em

1446
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: you said, what's called EMDR. I was like that sounds

1447
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: really interesting, and I'm wondering, like I would work for you,

1448
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: like where where the fuck are these memories?

1449
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 6: Now? That I would work for you? Because for me,

1450
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 6: I didn't have those memories either. You didn't know they

1451
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 6: can't they pressed them.

1452
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: They literally came from that. Interesting.

1453
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 4: Interesting, I have a question about ADMR.

1454
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 2: I know it's like it has like like a lot

1455
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 2: of relation to like hypno, but I'm always confused about

1456
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: like are you are they like the therapist is like

1457
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 2: telling you to bring up the stories and repeat them

1458
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 2: back and like kind of go there so you can

1459
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 2: tell them in deep at detail. And then is there

1460
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 2: a part where there are you read telling this like

1461
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 2: after you say it a lot of times? Are you

1462
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 2: then retelling the story in a way that is something

1463
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 2: you can sit with?

1464
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 6: Well, he doesn't, He doesn't ask me any questions. Okay,

1465
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 6: So I just come in every week because of the podcast.

1466
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 6: I do it twice a week to deal with the

1467
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 6: trauma that brings in problem right from my guests. But

1468
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 6: for me, I just talk about my day, what's been

1469
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 6: going on, or what's happened that week, and then from

1470
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 6: that trauma from the past is going to show up

1471
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 6: daily or weekly, monthly. So as you're talking about things

1472
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 6: in he'll say, Okay, tell me more about that. You'll

1473
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 6: just talk a little bit more. But why did you

1474
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 6: do that if you go on if you're dating or

1475
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 6: something with your husband or whatever, and he just dives

1476
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 6: into that a little bit deeper with you, and then

1477
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 6: you know, you can start the music, start the polls,

1478
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 6: and then you doing the rapid eye movement and then

1479
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 6: you go deeper into some of those memories. So it's

1480
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 6: just bringing stuff up as you bring it up.

1481
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 4: It's like it kind of creates the kind of root

1482
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 4: back to where it's rooted to.

1483
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not the normal therapy where they're asking you

1484
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 6: questions or whatever. It's like they wait until your talk

1485
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,599
Speaker 6: and he will sit there, minutes will go by until

1486
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 6: you start talking because it's all about you. And so yeah,

1487
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 6: so I would just so many things. I mean, I've

1488
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,440
Speaker 6: been doing it for a year now and it's incredible

1489
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 6: because not only as you go through this healing process.

1490
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 6: I just I used to be like against therapy, like

1491
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 6: I don't need that because they used to do talk

1492
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 6: therapy for years and did nothing for me. Like I

1493
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 6: almost would like not want to.

1494
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 2: Go alternative therapy is like a lot of times you

1495
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 2: need something more than just talking.

1496
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: Because I needed it.

1497
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:12,480
Speaker 6: I needed something deeper.

1498
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 4: Because we're trained to just talk in a way that

1499
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 4: suppresses what like you don't tell the truth, yeah, or

1500
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 4: you just dance around the same because I don't want

1501
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:22,879
Speaker 4: to talk about that ship.

1502
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 6: Exactly, you dance around it. And plus plus I alrea't

1503
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 6: even remember what happened about certain situations, right, But this

1504
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 6: this kind of memory, it's like he waits until you

1505
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 6: talk about Then it's like he knows exactly where to

1506
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 6: dig into, dig into a little bit, dig into a

1507
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 6: little bit more. A lot of times I'll be in

1508
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 6: there for an hour and a half, two hours and

1509
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 6: come out and for days be so angry because I

1510
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 6: brought up things that I don't want I didn't want

1511
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 6: to think about that really like and also a lot

1512
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 6: of times you don't want to have memories about certain

1513
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 6: people in your life that you think are good in

1514
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 6: your life.

1515
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 2: You've made You've made a story about them, so you've

1516
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 2: made so they can exist there. And so it's like

1517
01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 2: if I don't, if I don't want to, if I

1518
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 2: don't want to interrupt the story I've been telling myself exactly.

1519
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: Then I just did. I just don't.

1520
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 6: We're all telling the same story all the time. It's

1521
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 6: not always true we're telling so yeah, so it goes

1522
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 6: into those memories over and over and over again until

1523
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 6: I can finally start healing them, owning it, you know,

1524
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 6: and then pushing putting that in a safe place.

1525
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 2: So bringing up like just weekly daily things, and then

1526
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 2: how do they relate to these deep suppressed memories, Because.

1527
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 6: It could just be something you're talking about with your daughter,

1528
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 6: some advice you gave her. Where did that come from?

1529
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:29,600
Speaker 6: Let's talk more about that.

1530
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: That's so interesting because even yesterday and I was sharing

1531
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 2: with you what she told me about the girl at

1532
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 2: school liking girls, I to, you know, at first, I

1533
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 2: was like, you know, it's not a big deal. I

1534
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 2: was like, except if someone tries to make you do

1535
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,759
Speaker 2: something you don't want to do. And in that moment,

1536
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 2: it made me think about should I do that I

1537
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 2: didn't want to do as a kid at being around

1538
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 2: her age, and I'm like like, for a brief moment

1539
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 2: that went there, but then I just like, I don't

1540
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 2: want to make it too heavy, and just like, yeah,

1541
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 2: just you know, I always do what you want to do.

1542
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 6: But there's there's that's important to say.

1543
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 2: We forget that on a regular, daily, weekly basis, there

1544
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 2: are probably things that come up that will trigger those

1545
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 2: memories briefly, but if you are so busy suppressing them

1546
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 2: and covering them, you're gonna you're gonna breeze right past them, hit.

1547
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: The less instead of the right.

1548
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the thing about suppression about what you were saying.

1549
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 2: And I've said this before, and I truly believe this

1550
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,520
Speaker 2: because I feel like me and Eric have both experienced

1551
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 2: this in this like peak of good moms, like experiencing

1552
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: all these new things together and like, you know, accomplishing

1553
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 2: all these amazing things together. I feel like when you

1554
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 2: have things that happen to you that are really bad

1555
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 2: that you don't go into, when things that happen to

1556
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 2: you that are really good, your body loses the ability

1557
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 2: to react in any in any way that's too high,

1558
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 2: too sad, too traumatic, or too happy. So you're kind

1559
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 2: of always at like this this middle neutral fuel because

1560
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 2: you're you've trained yourself to suppress big emotions, and so

1561
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 2: what happens is like you're like, I'm so happy, and

1562
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 2: then you're like, but I don't know why I can't

1563
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: really feel. It's because when things that happen that are true,

1564
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 2: you don't feel things that what happened that are really

1565
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 2: good you also won't feel and so there's like a

1566
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 2: you have to give yourself permission to like constantly feel

1567
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 2: like well, yeah.

1568
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 6: And crying is so important. Actually getting those tears outs

1569
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 6: when you kind of release is super important. You ever

1570
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 6: talk to people are like, I've never cried, Well that

1571
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 6: was me. I hadn't cried for like twenty years. Wow,

1572
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 6: and thought of like those kinds of things that would

1573
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 6: make me cry. And then after going through emdr By,

1574
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 6: I cry all the time. You guys, you guys, I'm

1575
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 6: always backed yeah, and I'm always like on this sensitive thing.

1576
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,440
Speaker 6: I can feel when like I'm getting sensitive.

1577
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 4: Because you're in touch with your body, guper.

1578
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 6: In touch now, and then when you're super in touch

1579
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 6: with your body, then you can have those boundaries right

1580
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 6: when you're you know.

1581
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: Right because you actually know what your body does doesn't want,

1582
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 1: and what it actually does want. I know you're a

1583
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: mother of three boys. How has this, like, I guess, honesty,

1584
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: this unearthing. Have you discussed it with them? Like, I

1585
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: mean I'm assuming you have because they're a little bit older.

1586
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, what was that conversation? Like from the start I

1587
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 6: always told them when I went to speak or was

1588
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 6: interviewed for a documentary. I would tell them what it

1589
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 6: was for. Well, like you said, they're older. So I

1590
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 6: have teenagers now, but at first they were under eight

1591
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 6: or something, I probably wouldn't have said something like that,

1592
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 6: but as they were getting older, I've always been that

1593
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 6: type of mom where I just want them to know.

1594
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 6: I don't like to sugarcoat anything, and I don't do

1595
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 6: the birds and the bees. Have you asked me about sex,

1596
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 6: I'm telling you exactly what it is, right, and I

1597
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 6: just want to be super honest about things because that's

1598
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:31,919
Speaker 6: the way the world is. You don't want to sugarcoat

1599
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 6: things too much for kids because you want to. It's

1600
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 6: a harsh world and not everybody's good out there, so

1601
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 6: you need to let them know. From when they're little,

1602
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 6: you know, little by little you know, but what to

1603
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 6: really expect out of life. So when I told them

1604
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 6: and using your stuff that you've gone through as an example,

1605
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:55,120
Speaker 6: so as they're becoming teenagers and speaking out about sexual

1606
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 6: assault and things that I went through when I was

1607
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 6: in my early twenties and even teens, just being honest

1608
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 6: about that so they learn from your mistakes and learn

1609
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 6: from things that you've gone through and especially with boys

1610
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 6: and girls, they're thinking about how when they get in

1611
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 6: a certain situation, they're like, oh, my mom went through this,

1612
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 6: or mom taught me about this in a roundabout way

1613
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 6: instead of like don't do this or you know, it's

1614
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 6: more like, Okay, my mom went through this, so I understand.

1615
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 6: So they've been my biggest supporters. They've been so awesome

1616
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 6: and just I mean, I couldn't have done it without him,

1617
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 6: to be really honest, without their support, because they're basically

1618
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 6: all I had. You know, when I was speaking out,

1619
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 6: like I said, I had friends and family, they just

1620
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 6: dropped off the boyfriend. During that time, I was ready

1621
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 6: to start speaking out about what I went through with

1622
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 6: the Jeffrey Epstein, which was like this crazy story, and

1623
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:45,760
Speaker 6: he just literally just looked at me. I was like,

1624
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 6: I don't want to hear about it.

1625
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 4: Wow, now I don't want to hear about it.

1626
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 6: I don't want to hear about it. Like I see

1627
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 6: later on told me, oh, I thought he was like

1628
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 6: a playboy and maybe you have this like sugar daddy

1629
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:58,640
Speaker 6: relationship Like no, well, and are nothing to do with it.

1630
01:14:58,680 --> 01:14:59,720
Speaker 4: But are you listening to me?

1631
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: Are you now?

1632
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 2: You just drew a picture that you wanted to that

1633
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,519
Speaker 2: you that was like for him, I guess so.

1634
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 6: I mean, I realized in that moment the relationship that

1635
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 6: I have with him for those three years wasn't even

1636
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 6: a relationship. He never even asked me anything about myself ever,

1637
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 6: knew nothing about me, So why would he want to

1638
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 6: know something deeper about me?

1639
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 1: Right?

1640
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 7: Right?

1641
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 6: It was a very relationship, shallow surfacy relationship when I

1642
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 6: realized I was probably just an object to him at

1643
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 6: that point, didn't really want to get to know me.

1644
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 6: And so when you start speaking out about these kind

1645
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 6: of things, like you said, when you open up a

1646
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:33,719
Speaker 6: lot of you know, kind of who your real true

1647
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 6: friends are at them moment. Yeah, yeah, it's not it's

1648
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 6: not easy to speak out.

1649
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: No, I think you're so incredibly brave, especially because of

1650
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: I guess the power that your abuser yields and the

1651
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: people that he's connected with, who are I'm sure quivering

1652
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 1: in their boots still in this moment and trying to

1653
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 1: see how much does this person know? Who did he tell? You? Know,

1654
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of you're mangering that I'm sure I

1655
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,719
Speaker 1: don't know if you've experienced that that want to silence

1656
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 1: women like you. So I commend you for continuing, continuing,

1657
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: and not only just continuing, like creating a platform where

1658
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: people can share their stories. If you guys haven't checked

1659
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 1: out her podcast, make sure you go check out from

1660
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 1: now on pod. It's such a powerful place for people,

1661
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: especially who have experienced any sort of sexual assault or

1662
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: just want information on how to be able to identify it,

1663
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: protect themselves, protect your kids. I think that it starts

1664
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: so young, and it starts so like it's like these

1665
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: little micro aggressions that happen, and then Sunday one day

1666
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 1: you wake up and you're like, what the fuck? How

1667
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:48,040
Speaker 1: did I get here? And I think that it's important

1668
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 1: for us to educate ourselves our boys too. That's why

1669
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to hear how supportive your sons are,

1670
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 1: because like the boys, like, they really need to understand

1671
01:16:56,560 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: how much power they have in that dynamic, the masculine

1672
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: over the feminine in that.

1673
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 6: Way, even just knowing consent and.

1674
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 1: Consent, yes, the asking the consent piece is.

1675
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:11,879
Speaker 6: Always because a lot of times it's just by educating

1676
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 6: our kids you can change so many things that happened

1677
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 6: to women and young women. Just the consent part if

1678
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 6: a woman's clammed up like this, she's probably not into you.

1679
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 6: Maybe even if a woman needs to be touching you,

1680
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 6: into instigating, starting things, then she's into you. But if

1681
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 6: a woman's all clammed up like this, maybe you should stop. Yeah,

1682
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 6: she's uncomfortable. I just can't say so.

1683
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that consent isn't just the warble, no, yeah,

1684
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: really being able to Yeah, read the room, read body language,

1685
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 1: and get get your desires out of the fucking way,

1686
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: because I think that's what a lot of times what

1687
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 1: happens is like okay, but like I really want to

1688
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:47,680
Speaker 1: do this right now, like she'll enjoy it once we

1689
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 1: get in there, you know, and it's just it's really unfortunate.

1690
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you. Do you have an affirmation that

1691
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:58,480
Speaker 1: you can share with our audience.

1692
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 6: Well, I do personal my personal affirmations. I don't know

1693
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 6: if it'll work for everybody, but for me, I like

1694
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 6: the sound of my name when I say affirmations because

1695
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 6: when someone says it to me, it does something for

1696
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 6: me because I grew up like not really hearing my

1697
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 6: name in a loving way. It was only like Lisa

1698
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 6: and Phillips, you know, when you're like you're in trouble,

1699
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 6: so I always say what I want to hear, what

1700
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 6: I want other people to say to me that don't right.

1701
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 6: And I'm proud of you, Lisa.

1702
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you, Lisa. I'm proud of you.

1703
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 6: Yes, I'm proud of you. And also you're worthy of

1704
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 6: everything that you want. You're worthy of everything you want.

1705
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,719
Speaker 4: You're worth everything that you want me, and you're very powerful.

1706
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:44,520
Speaker 1: You're very powerful.

1707
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 6: Yeah. So those are the three that I say I'm

1708
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 6: a most often to myself. Yeah, or even sometimes like

1709
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 6: under my breath, like so someone can't hear me and

1710
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 6: I'm walking through like home goods or something. But if

1711
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 6: you sometimes you catch yourself in a mirror, sometimes you

1712
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 6: just want to say that, remind yourself, you know, because

1713
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 6: it's throughout the day. It's not always just like in

1714
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 6: the morning in the mirror.

1715
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 2: No, I like the name, like, I like personalizing it

1716
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 2: for you because sometimes you needs to not be general.

1717
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 4: You need to know it's for you.

1718
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 6: A lot of times when you personalize it, you get

1719
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:15,680
Speaker 6: the motions come up.

1720
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 1: It shift, it shifts the s energy.

1721
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 4: You're not just saying a thing, You're saying it to you.

1722
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: I like that, Yeah, me too. Well, before we get

1723
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:25,120
Speaker 1: out of here. I would love if you pulled a

1724
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: card for Tarot time.

1725
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:43,440
Speaker 5: Oh boy, the Emperor, Emperor.

1726
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 6: It already sounds good.

1727
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looks powerful. He looks like he's yielding his

1728
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: power for good, it seems the Emperor, and shout out

1729
01:19:53,240 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 1: to bitty terror. Not terror, it's a bitty terror. It's

1730
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: black owned tarot, female founded, Mama owned tarot brand. So

1731
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:08,920
Speaker 1: make sure you check out what should I just call

1732
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: them mahogany. I call mahogany.

1733
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 2: Shout out to Biddy who we always read the definition

1734
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,599
Speaker 2: to mahogany is what I'm talking about.

1735
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

1736
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: The Emperor as the father figure of the Tarot deck.

1737
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 2: The Emperor suggests that you are adopting this fatherly role,

1738
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,879
Speaker 2: regardless of whether you're male or female, providing for your family,

1739
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 2: protecting and defending your loved ones, or yourself. You may

1740
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 2: be the breadwinner or the rock for those who rely

1741
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:42,240
Speaker 2: on your stability and security. Similarly, the Emperor represents a

1742
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 2: powerful leader who demands respect and authority. Status, power and

1743
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 2: recognition are essential to you, and you are most comfortable

1744
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 2: in leadership role where you can command and direct others.

1745
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 2: As a leader, you rule with a firm but fair hand.

1746
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 2: You have a clear vision of what you want to create,

1747
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 2: and you organize those around you to manifest your goal.

1748
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 2: You listen to the advice of others, but you prefer

1749
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 2: to have the final say. Conflict doesn't scare you, and

1750
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 2: you won't hesitate to use your power to protect those

1751
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 2: you care about, and in return, those people will repay

1752
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:14,680
Speaker 2: you with the.

1753
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: Loyalty and respect you deserve.

1754
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 2: Claim your authority as leader and influencer, and don't let

1755
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 2: others put you down. It reflects a system bound by

1756
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 2: rules and regulations. You create law and order by applying

1757
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 2: principles or guidelines to a specific situation. Create calm out

1758
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:35,839
Speaker 2: of chaos by breaking down any problems into its parts

1759
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 2: and then mapping out the actions you need to take

1760
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 2: to resolve it. Be systematic, strategic, and highly organized in

1761
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 2: your approach, and stick to your plan until the end.

1762
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:46,520
Speaker 1: Wow.

1763
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 6: I love that seeing everything out to the end is

1764
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 6: so important.

1765
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:52,680
Speaker 2: It says through the course of your life you have

1766
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 2: gained valuable wisdom and life experience, and now you enjoy

1767
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 2: offering guidance, advice and direction to someone who might benefit

1768
01:21:59,160 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: from it.

1769
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 6: I do.

1770
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 2: Maybe a teacher, coach, boss, or a good friend who

1771
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 2: likes to take what you have learned and pass it

1772
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 2: on to others so they can be wise and as

1773
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 2: powerful as you.

1774
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 6: Wow, I love that I picked a good card and

1775
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 6: I had been the breadwinner for my kids. I've raised

1776
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:14,879
Speaker 6: my kids all by myself.

1777
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 1: It picked you, baby boys.

1778
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, that's not easy.

1779
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, for real And honestly, like I want to say

1780
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:24,120
Speaker 2: to you, like, yes, I'm in awe of the work

1781
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 2: that you've done, and like the pivot that you've taken

1782
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 2: and that you said, shit's going to shift and I'm

1783
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 2: going to say what I need to say and taking

1784
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 2: your power back.

1785
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 4: And also just like I think this.

1786
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 2: I've been saying this for a while, but I really

1787
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 2: genuinely believe like this is the resurrection of the feminine

1788
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 2: of the women. I think there is like a power

1789
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 2: that we're getting back right now universally, and I think

1790
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 2: that it's time.

1791
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:46,519
Speaker 1: It's time.

1792
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us have suffered at the

1793
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 2: hands of the patriarchy, and I think we're all like

1794
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 2: getting our voice back and like getting on our feet.

1795
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:56,799
Speaker 2: And like I think the men that have thrived and

1796
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:00,160
Speaker 2: you know from the abuse of women, it's over or

1797
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 2: free bitches. Ooh, I like that, and I think like

1798
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 2: it is. It's over, free bitches for real, Like brace

1799
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:11,320
Speaker 2: ourselves because when like when as we come back into

1800
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 2: our power, as we're resurrecting, we're coming back from the ashes,

1801
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 2: like it's about, it's going to be impossible for you

1802
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 2: to hurt us. It's going to be impossible because we're

1803
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 2: here together, because we're in community, because we're using our voice,

1804
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 2: and because this is what we're supposed to do historically anyway,

1805
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 2: and now that we're coming back into that power, like

1806
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 2: it's done.

1807
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, stop sharing.

1808
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I want to say to you, Mila, I'm

1809
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: really proud of you for sharing this your testimony and

1810
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 1: your story because I know this is something that you've

1811
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: been kind of suffering and silent, not kind of you've

1812
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 1: been suffering with for a while now. And so I'm

1813
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:50,559
Speaker 1: really proud of you for feeling brave enough to share

1814
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 1: share that.

1815
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1816
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: So I love you. Thank you. I love you too. Yeah.

1817
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 6: How do you feel after sharing that?

1818
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 2: I feel good. I feel like it's just the beginning.

1819
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 2: Like I have to, like, you know, like work through

1820
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 2: all the things. And I'm still working through it, you know.

1821
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 2: I and I you know, I just I want everyone

1822
01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:08,599
Speaker 2: else listening to know that this kind of shit takes time,

1823
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 2: and it's not like an overnight it's two years. Yeah, years,

1824
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 2: Like it's it's a commitment to shift, and it's a

1825
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:16,759
Speaker 2: commitment to doing things differently. And if you've done things

1826
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 2: a certain way, it's going to take time to uncover

1827
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 2: all of those like those habits. And you know, we're

1828
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:28,639
Speaker 2: not no one's perfect or experts at healing or exactly

1829
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 2: my healing looks different from yours and yours and yours,

1830
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 2: And just like I really want to encourage everyone to

1831
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 2: just stay stick the course and even when it gets

1832
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 2: difficult and you know, and take breaks, rest, but then

1833
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 2: go back to it and understand that like that's where

1834
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 2: the power lies. Look at Lisa, you know, like literally

1835
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 2: your power lives with spreading the word about the things

1836
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 2: that you've experienced so that other people feel empowered to

1837
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 2: do the same thing.

1838
01:24:52,479 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 6: Right, really good, Yes, Lisa works.

1839
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 1: Can our audience find you?

1840
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 6: Let's see here. So I'm on Instagram. I am Lisa Phillips. Also,

1841
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,799
Speaker 6: my podcast from No One is on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple.

1842
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,600
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, make sure you go tap into Lisa's podcast

1843
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:16,880
Speaker 1: and yeah, just I think it's such an important space.

1844
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:18,679
Speaker 1: If you created, like I said, so, thank you. Thank

1845
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: you for the work that you're doing. You guys know

1846
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: where to find us, or if you don't, make sure

1847
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 1: you go follow us on Instagram at Good Mom's Underscore

1848
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 1: Bad Choices. Make sure that you tap into our retreats.

1849
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: We have the Good Vibe Retreat coming up the summer.

1850
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,680
Speaker 1: We have a couple's retreat in June. We have two

1851
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: women's retreats in July and August. And rate and review

1852
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,120
Speaker 1: this episode. If you haven't rateed and review this episode,

1853
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 1: please please do. It really makes the difference for us.

1854
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 1: We've been at this for seven years and we should

1855
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 1: have a lot more reviews on Apple. I'm just going

1856
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 1: to subscribe. Review.

1857
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 4: You get this shit for free.

1858
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 2: That's pay in subscriptions and comments, and even if you

1859
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:56,479
Speaker 2: hate it, say that shit. But just whatever you do

1860
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 2: before you fucking hang up this phone after we've given

1861
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,759
Speaker 2: you two hours of our life, subscribe, hit a comment

1862
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 2: and thank you.

1863
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: Appreciate it, and make sure you check out our merch our.

1864
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: I don't even like calling emrch It's our clothing line

1865
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:13,519
Speaker 1: designs on our website. Good Momsbad Choices dot com. If

1866
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,639
Speaker 1: you're not a patron yet, what are you doing? Join Patreon.

1867
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:20,760
Speaker 1: You get all of our YouTube episodes early. You get

1868
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: everything early, and on top of that, you get bonus

1869
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: episodes and access to our Discord, which is direct access

1870
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,799
Speaker 1: to us really in our entire community, where we're talking

1871
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: even more candidly than on Instagram, because Instagram are the ops.

1872
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:38,839
Speaker 2: And find a friend, find a friend in the discord

1873
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,320
Speaker 2: in your city. If you want your erk to your Amila,

1874
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:43,720
Speaker 2: go on Patreon. I mean, go on Patreon to get

1875
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 2: in discord and find people in your city, because I

1876
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 2: know moms get lonely, and you know women get lonely.

1877
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 2: And we have a really beautiful I feel like a

1878
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 2: tribe of come as you are. It's a judgment free

1879
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 2: zone whoever you are. It's like a place, a safe

1880
01:26:57,400 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 2: space to be who you are and you find a

1881
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 2: friend who's going to accept you as is. That's one

1882
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 2: thing I really love about our community. It's like free

1883
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 2: and loving and we offer support just for free.

1884
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 4: So come in like vent and find a friend.

1885
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:11,759
Speaker 1: Yes, it's ten dollars a month and it's worth every

1886
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,719
Speaker 1: fucking penny. So Patreon dot com slash good mom's bad choices,

1887
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 1: and we see this week good hey pleasing?

1888
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:21,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm living so good.

1889
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 1: Can't you tell?

1890
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:24,560
Speaker 7: I went through a drought, that's until I found a

1891
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:26,800
Speaker 7: well maym have been known Earth? I used to be

1892
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 7: broken tail, now got the blues dancing might Beyonce Jasell

1893
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 7: throat shot or popping his cow wearing our voices. Patriarchy

1894
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 7: kept it in the box. To what'spois? Women put the

1895
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 7: pee and powers, so what's pointless?

1896
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: They want me to be good?

1897
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:40,759
Speaker 6: So I made bad choices.

1898
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 7: Bad mom, not a bad mom, but a bad mom.

1899
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 7: Gitter's in, put cannabis in their bath, bon walk in

1900
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 7: bosses cap and I blew his.

1901
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: Cat balls hot dog. Now I'm immune to the cat

1902
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 1: called Herbie.

1903
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 7: And no waisted straight to win like a dollar sign. Mother,

1904
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 7: rent the lover when so Woden's like a water someone

1905
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:58,759
Speaker 7: where you're rent the winter resentual will win the summer

1906
01:27:58,880 --> 01:27:59,600
Speaker 7: time I do it.

1907
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:01,919
Speaker 1: Oh, they know one that needs to run it by