1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace talk about a mother and 2 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: daughter act. I don't know what images that conjures up 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: in your mind, mother daughter. I bet it has nothing 4 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: to do with the death of a twenty six year 5 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: old young girl who's guilty of one thing. She wanted 6 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: to look better. I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 7 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 8 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: and series XM one eleven. First of all, take a 9 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at ABC seven. Clissa roj Paul, 10 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: seen in a video posted on social media. Undergoing but augmentation. 11 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,959 Speaker 1: Raj Paul had two procedures performed illegally at a home 12 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 1: and Encino last September. She died after getting a third procedure. 13 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: Police say Lydi Adami and her daughter, Alicia Gomez presented 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: themselves as specialists. Both have been arrested on murdered charges. 15 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: These individuals have no medical training, they are not experienced, 16 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: and they are putting people's lives and health at risk. 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: Investigators suspect the women injected Rajpaul with some substances used 18 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: by qualified cosmetic physicians, but combined them with dangerous chemicals. 19 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: They were mixing them with other chemicals and other substances 20 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: that clearly are not appropriate for any kind of medical 21 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: procedure that would be performed on a human. You know, 22 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: sometimes I think I've heard at all. I've heard of 23 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: mixing silicone with cement, mix, sawdust, you name it, and 24 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: that being injected into people's bodies as plastic surgery. Assured 25 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: tickets straight to the Morgue with me and all Star 26 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now. 27 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: But first I want to go to special guests Terry J. Dubro, 28 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: star of botch seven year itch on E. I mean 29 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: it goes on and on and on. I just I 30 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: can't even put in all your qualifications, Doctor Terry Dubro, 31 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us and taking time out 32 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: of your schedule. Doctor Dubro, What is happening? What? This 33 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: is a mother and daughter? What performing? But let's in 34 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: their garage? What? Unfortunately asking this is more common than 35 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: people may realize. This is part of what's called the 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: pumping party phenomenon, where unlicensed he goes down. Wait a minute, 37 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: p U M P I n G. Pumping party. I 38 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: mean I've heard of a botox party. Yeah, and I 39 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: just always a bunch of rich socialites sitting around a 40 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: brunch getting injected, you know, with their grand piano in 41 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: the background. I mean, that's just what I imagine. I've 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: never heard of a pumping party. What's that, Jill. Pumping 43 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: party is where unlicensed practitioners go to believe or not, 44 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: places like hardware stores and get crazy blue caulking material 45 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: right in the middle of a sep of my favorite tea. 46 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: And you said hardware store. So far in my career, 47 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: I haven't spit out anything on air, but it was 48 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: very close. Pick it up with hardware store, doctor de Brive. What. Yeah, 49 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: they go to these hardware stores and it gets material 50 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: that it is supposed to be what's called inerts. It's 51 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: not supposed to react to the human body, but of 52 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: course it's not sterile. Once it's injected into the buttock, 53 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: it can get infected. But in these cases where these 54 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: practitioners are causing death, there's very short blood vessels in 55 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: the buttock area that are directly connected to the main 56 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: vessel bringing blood back to the heart, called the vena cava. 57 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: If you injected in those little blood vessels and it 58 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: gets in the main vessel, it goes right to the 59 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: right side of your heart to your lungs, and it 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: literally kills you right then and there. I'm just trying 61 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: to take in everything you just said. Remember, doctor, I'm 62 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: a JD. You're the m date. Could you just pick 63 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: it up one more time. For those of us that 64 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: have never heard about pumping parties in hardware stores, could 65 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: you just say all that again. Did you say cock? 66 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: Did you say cock? Go ahead, cawking. Okay. So these 67 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: practitioners are trying to fill up people's buttocks to enhance 68 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: their buttock, the buttock augmentation. So they go to a 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: hardware store and they pick up these materials that are 70 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: designed to be used during house construction, and the common 71 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: one is glue or calking materials, the material that you 72 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: put between tiles in your bathroom that sealant. Those are 73 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: things they eject in the buttock to make the buttock bigger. Unfortunately, 74 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: they can get into the main blood vessel that brings 75 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: blood back to your heart. It clogs up the arteries 76 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: that supply your lungs, and you essentially injected directly into 77 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: your lungs and death. And and it's actually more common 78 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: than I think people realize, Doctor du Bro joining me 79 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: Star of Botch seven year itch On, a author of 80 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: doctrine Missus Guinea pig present the only guy you'll ever 81 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: need to the best anti aging treatments. That's certainly a mouthful, 82 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: doctor du Bro. I don't understand something. They didn't teach me, 83 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: the inn criminal law. I thought, when you inject anything, 84 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: just to just say a shot of vaccine anything, So 85 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: when you inject something into your body that it goes 86 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: through all of your blood vessels all over your body, 87 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: that you can't differentiate between where it's going to go 88 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: in this vein or not in the vein to your heart. 89 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: I didn't know you could even differentiate that. Yes, I mean, 90 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: if you think about when people get facial fillers, it's 91 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: these fillers are designed to be injected into the soft tissue. 92 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely you have to avoid the blood vessels because if 93 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: you get in the blood vessel and it clogged at 94 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: the blood vessels. I see what you're saying. It's supposed 95 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: to go in the muscle tissue and not into the 96 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: vein exactly the salt tissue alone, not the blood. Say. 97 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: It only took three tries for me to figure that out. 98 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: Thank you, doctor du Bro. I want to get back 99 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 1: to what's happening right now, doctor du Bro, I blame, 100 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: and of course she's not legally liable. But I think 101 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: this was the tipping point that really pushed the whole 102 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: butt implants, fake silicone treatments phenomena over the cliff. Take 103 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut nine. This is Danny hoyt 104 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: At Celebified. Did Kim Kardashian officially break the Internet? The 105 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: infamous reality star took to her Instagram to share her 106 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: provocative cover photos for Paper Magazines twenty fourteen Winner issue, 107 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: taken by famed French photographer Jean Paul Gooday. One photo 108 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: shows Kim exposing her bear oiled up boutet, Kim's most 109 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: well known asset, while the other features her fully clothed 110 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: balancing a champagne glass on her end table. And they 111 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: say I didn't have talent, Kim captioned, try balancing a 112 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: champagne glass on your ass Lol. No, thanks, Kimmy, I'm good. 113 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: The race of your cover has naturally spawned hundreds of 114 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: butt theme memes, So whether or not she broke the Internet, 115 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: she's certainly the butt of its jokes. What do you 116 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: think of her paper magazine covers? High fashion or hot mess. 117 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: But now people are dying, dying to David Woodroff. You 118 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: may know his name in legal circles. We all know 119 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: his name, Denver trial lawyer who represented Emelyn Jin's family, 120 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: another victim very similar to Charissa in the case we're 121 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: covering right now, David Woodruff, nothing has happened, it's all 122 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: the same, And now we've got another dead body. It's 123 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: unbelievableante and the words spread around the world about Emmelyn's desk, 124 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: and here we go people having continuing, as doctor Dubrow 125 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: looks out, having parties to do this together. It's a 126 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: real shame that the generation has gone this direction. And 127 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: I played that from Kim Kardashian. It's certainly not Kim 128 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: Kardashian's fault that people are going to pumping parties in 129 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: hardware stores and having colk that you put between bathroom 130 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: tiles injected into their rear ends. But I can guarantee 131 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: you one thing, one thing, David Woodroff, Kim Kardashian, Kim 132 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: Kay didn't get her rearen injected in a hardware store. Obviously, 133 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: these women had no interest in protecting the patients safety 134 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: at all. If you can call them patients. We're talking 135 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: to doctor Terry J. Dubro start of Botched and seven 136 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: year stitch on E and David Woodroffe, high profile lawyer 137 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: out of Denver who just represented the family of a 138 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: young girl Emmlent and Gin. Take a listen to our 139 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: cut ten from the Denver Channel. Emlyn when walked into 140 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: Colorado Aesthetic plastic surgery in Greenwood Village last summer, ready 141 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: for an image change. She was so excited after months 142 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: of saving for a breast doogmentation, just preparing herself for 143 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: her new immagic Her mom, Lynn fam assured her daughter 144 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: she'd be fine, but the minutes and hours ticked by. 145 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: So the doctor was just trying to tell me that 146 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: Emlyn's fine and she's healthy, but she wasn't. No One 147 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: ended up in a coma and after being rushed to 148 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: the hospital, doctor say she suffered a severe brain injury. 149 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: The family attorney, this should never happen. You know, I've 150 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: got a question. How old was Emmelyn? David Woodroffe. Em 151 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: One was eighteen years old. She had just graduated from 152 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: high school. Emmelyn is dead and we publicized that, we 153 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: covered it. David Woodroffe has been screaming it from the 154 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: church spires at the top of the mountains. But yet 155 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: now we have more deaths. To take a listen now 156 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: to our friends at NBC four. He says that Doma 157 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: advertise on social media as Latia, usually endearing term in 158 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: the Latino community, and that the procedure was done in 159 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: a private residence in Encino, showing NBC for the evidence 160 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: he secured in a search warrant. If these items can 161 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: be transported to the private home. These are the bare 162 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: necessities to perform these procedures. You knows, the heart monitors, 163 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,239 Speaker 1: the blood pressure, and any medical equipment for any contingencies 164 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: for the likelihood on an emergency. They just didn't have it. 165 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: They just didn't have them. No doctors do this. Board 166 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: certified Beverly Hills plastic surgeon doctor A. J. Khalil says 167 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: injecting liquefied silicon into the buttox is not only illegal, 168 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: it can be deformative at best, deadly at worst. Okay, 169 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Terry J. Dubro joining me start off bots and 170 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: seven years stitch on a You know, but that's just 171 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: a sign line. He is a certified a board certified 172 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: plastic surgeon, doctor Dubro, did you hear that minus the 173 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: heart equipment, the heart monitor, and all of the medical 174 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: equipment you need in case something goes wrong, So basically, 175 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: minus everything you need for a procedure like this. You know, Nancy, 176 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: it's disgusting, but at the end of the day, they're 177 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: not trained medical people anyway. They wouldn't even know what 178 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: to do with the emergency equipment. It would be useless 179 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. This is the practice 180 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: of medicine without a license is extraordinarily dangerous and unfortunately 181 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: this has been going on since the early two thousand. 182 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: Deaths have occurred for the last two decades from illegal 183 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: buttock injections. They get right into the blood vessels supplying 184 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: the heart and it's over and there's no way to 185 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: stop it. The reason it occurs is because people want 186 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: it done. Time stories with Nancy Grace. What's so amazing 187 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: here is you've got a mother daughter tagged to performing 188 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: illegal butt lifts ending in death. Take a listen to 189 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: our friends at CBS. Two detectives in ban I say 190 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: this mother daughter duo performed an illegal butt lift procedure 191 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: that killed twenty six year old Charissa ross Paul in 192 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: October of twenty nineteen, and they tell us there may 193 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: be other victims at These things are done by people 194 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: with no training. There's no standards, there's no contingency if 195 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: something goes wrong. According to investigators, fifty one year old 196 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: Libby Adami and her daughter, twenty three year old Elisia 197 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: Galaz have been doing the procedures out of their home 198 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: since at least twenty twelve. Investigators say that women charged 199 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: nearly fourteen thousand dollars for three sessions. This is video 200 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: of ross Paul's second one. She sent the clip to 201 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: her mother in South Africa to ease her worries, but 202 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: the twenty six year old died after her third session. 203 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: As a lot of our family members are, they're totally 204 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: blindsided by this. The cause of death was silicone embolism 205 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: in the heart, brain and kidneys. What does that mean? 206 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: Silicone embolism, doctor bro So. An embolism means when you 207 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: inject silicone directly into a blood vessel, and it's called embolize. 208 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: It moves from that blood vessel to an organ and 209 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: cuts off the blood supply to the organ. The most 210 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: common cause of death, it cuts off the blood sup 211 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: lights of the lungs that you basically asphyxiate, you can't 212 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: supply your arteries with oxygen anymore, and you die on 213 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: the spot. The fascination of a mother daughter tag team 214 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: in this case ending in the death of Charissa as 215 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: Paul joining me kiboline dot Com investigative reporter Nicole Parton. Nicole, 216 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What happened? So this 217 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: mother daughter duo advertise on social media and they offer 218 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: these cosmetic procedures at a fraction of the cost. So 219 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: this beautiful young lady who contacts them is wanting to 220 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: get this butt lift that she sets up three sessions 221 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: with them, and she has two of the sessions which 222 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: go okay. That third session, she all of a sudden 223 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: has complications. As if things couldn't get any worse, the 224 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: mother daughter duo call nine one one, but then leave 225 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: the scene, basically leaving her there to die. So when 226 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: paramedics get to the home, they have no idea. They're 227 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: unaware of the procedure that's happened. She died in the 228 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: emergency room with the attending physicians unaware that she has 229 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: been injected with this household silicone had they stayed and 230 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: at least let the authorities know what had happened. There 231 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: may have been a chance of survival. But they fled 232 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: the scene, not even telling anyone what had happened. You know, 233 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: dogor besany, I don't get it. Who would walk into 234 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: someone's home for a surgical procedure and what have the 235 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: procedure done on the kitchen table or at a hardware store? 236 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: Who does that? Nancy? These women aren't believable, the ones 237 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: who perform these injections. They have nationalized to themselves, this 238 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: mother daughter team, that they're helping society, that they're making money, 239 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: that they are doing something even better than the plastic 240 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: surgeons are doing. They are offering beauty procedures at a 241 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: discounted rate. And this mother daughter team, like other criminals, 242 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: like other con artists, like other snake oil salesmen, they 243 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: have told themselves this story so many times it becomes 244 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: a narrative. So when a young woman walks into their apartment, 245 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: their house, their garage, they say it in such a 246 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: believable way. Hey, we have these procedures. You don't have 247 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: to go to the plastic surgeon and pay fifteen thousand dollars. 248 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: You can pay us thirty five hundred dollars, and it 249 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: is the same thing. They say it and the victim, 250 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: the person, the eighteen year old, the twenty six year old, 251 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: wants to look beautiful and doesn't have the resources, and 252 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: so they fall prey. And you know, it's not just 253 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: eighteen year old and twenty six year olds. It's women 254 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: all over the world who do not have financial resources. 255 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: These are the victims. It's transgender women who are desperate 256 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: to inhabit a new kind of body and they're afraid 257 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: to go to a plastic surgeon. It's women on the 258 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: fringes of society. It's porn stars maybe who really they 259 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: want to look beautiful, but maybe they're afraid to go 260 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: into a doctor's office. So, as is the case with 261 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: most victims, they are people who are in a very vulnerable, 262 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: fragile position to begin with. You know, I think it's 263 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: somehow gotten to be acceptable. I want to go to 264 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: David Woodruff about the youth of these victims. And I 265 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: want to go to doctor Dubro, doctor Terry Dubro from 266 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: botch and seven year Stitch, about the fact that has 267 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: seemingly become acceptable because I mentioned botox parties where it's 268 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: almost like a baby shower or a wedding shower, where 269 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: women get together at someone in someone's home and they 270 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: all get botox. That sounds dangerous to me, Well, this 271 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: is doctor brow Bow talks. At least it's legal and 272 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: it's almost always done by a trained professional. I think 273 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: it's unseemly to do it to someone's house where there's 274 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: alcohol being poured and it's a non medical environment, but 275 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: at least it's legal and it's not experimental. Whereas illegal 276 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: injections of silicone don't work, they're inappropriate, their complication rate 277 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: is about eighty percent, and they're dangerous. So botox parties 278 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: for me are not appropriate and unseemly, but at least 279 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: it's not frankly illegal and grossly dangerous. You know. David 280 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: Wood joining me, high profile lawyer out of Denver, and 281 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: I first became familiar with him with the case of 282 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: a teen girl, emlin Nnajen, and she died after illegal 283 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: surgery botched plastic surgery a teen girl. And now we 284 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: see this girl Charissa Rush Paul unaspiring actress, as doctor 285 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: Bethany was pointing out that couldn't afford to go to 286 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: a real doctor and have a real plastic surgery. David Woodruff, 287 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: I understand that these two the mom and daughter, Libbyadame 288 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: and Alicia the daughter, advertised online and they targeted people 289 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: just like Carissa and reeled them in like fish. It's unbelievable, Nancy, 290 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: and you know, frankly, it's a failure not just by 291 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: these two criminals, but by society for buying into this 292 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: h garage kind of procedure when we do have professional 293 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: medical professionals like doctor Dubro who are trained for a 294 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: decade to do plastic surgery and do it safely in 295 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: a safe environment, and for criminals like these two ladies 296 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: to real people in like fish and dangle a carrot 297 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: over them that they can have a similar outcome for 298 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: a small amount of money is disgusting, just like doctor 299 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: Dubreau points out, and it's reckless from a legal perspective. 300 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: It is far beyond simply failing to use reasonable care. 301 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: This is a reckless disregard for people's lives. And it's 302 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: quite obvious to anyone that injecting silicone that you buy 303 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: at home depot into a person's body is highly likely 304 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: to kill them. Okay, waite a minute, Wait a minute, 305 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: David Woodrow, you just said silicone like you buy at 306 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: home depot. What I thought this was silicon well, for instance, 307 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: that people used to get breast implants, or that they 308 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: put in as facial fillers. Why did you just say 309 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: silicone like you get at home depost So the silicone 310 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: implants and doctor Broke can talk a little bit about this. 311 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: But pelicone implants that are are used for breast augmentation 312 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: are developed and approved by the SBA, and they contain 313 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: a casing that prevents the silicone from being released into 314 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: the bloodstream. These women who are literally buying products like 315 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: silicone calking that you can use that you used to 316 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: sufill your bath. Oh dear lord, that's why you keep 317 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: saying calking. Yep. And they can coct this liquefied pelicone 318 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: and inject it yet but good exactly, And they're they're 319 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: injecting it into people's bodies and taking a chance that 320 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: it's not going to absorb into the bloodstream, which this 321 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: poor young woman it did, killing her instantly. Well, you 322 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: just said that silicone rust implants are psyche, but can't 323 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: they rupture the silicone action? Go seep into your body. 324 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: So silicone can rupture, but it's a semi solid silicone. 325 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't spread throughout the body when it ruptures, just 326 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: stays locally what's called encapsulated. But let me make one 327 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: point very clear. There is no medical grade silicone that 328 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: exists that's legal for even doctors to inject in the 329 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: human body. It's not something we are allowed to do 330 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: in micro droplets, sometimes in the eye. Rarely an ophthalmologist 331 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: will use it. But there is no such thing as 332 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: legal injectable silicone that doctors are allowed to use. I 333 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: didn't know that it's got a bay, for instance, and 334 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: one of those pouches like a breast implant. That's exactly right, 335 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: it's got a silicone shell on the outside. Well, what 336 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: is the plastic surgeons injected to people's faces. What is that? 337 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: I thought that was silicone. No, that's called hyaluronic acid, 338 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: which is a naturally occurring substance. Okay, that sounds even 339 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: wor well No, no, how acid is naturally occurring substance. 340 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: What it's called hyaluronic acid. All of ourselves have within 341 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: them a substance called hyaluronic acid. It's actually the theme 342 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 1: that keeps your joint lubri kids. Okay, you know what 343 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: Dodgor did, bro. This is what I do when my 344 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: children's talk gibberish. I go because I don't know what 345 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: they're saying. Let me just take the takeaway from this 346 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: is that you cannot inject silicone into your body. It's 347 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: got to be encapsulated in something like a breast implant. 348 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: Let me just let that percolate before you start telling 349 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: me about acid that is created normally. Hey, wait a minute, 350 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, I have not forgotten you because I want 351 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: to go to you after doctor Bethany about mother daughter 352 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: mother child crimes. Okay, go ahead, doctor Bethany. Okay, I 353 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: have a friend to colleague, a plastic surgeon. May you 354 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: got a lot of friends, doctor Bethany, because no matter 355 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: what criminal case I cover, you either have a client 356 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: a patient body brand that somehow mirrors the crime. But okay, 357 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: go ahead. Well, he removes polymers from victims who have 358 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: been injected from around the world. He does this. It's 359 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: sort of like a ministry something he does to help 360 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: out and a polymer. Your doctors could describe it better 361 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: who are on the show. But it's it's an illegally 362 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: injected substance, and these polymers they degrade over time. So 363 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: he showed me the pictures and they are horrible. These 364 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: are women who have had their buttocks, their calves, their 365 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: breasts injected, and and these are mothers who's their wives. 366 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: And they don't degrade quickly. It's like a slow drip 367 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: towards death. And by the time they get to his office, 368 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: often they're black, they're cancerous, they're beginning to leak throughout 369 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: the body. The woman has had unidentified pain for years, arthritis, migraine, 370 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: slow energy, fatigue, and their health deteriorates to the point 371 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: where they can't walk at some point. So you know, 372 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: we're covering a story about a woman who died after 373 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: her third injection. There are women all over the world 374 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: who are facing slow, crippling deaths and they don't even 375 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: know what's causing the depths until it comes to some 376 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: kind of medical attention. And that's because of injections. Plastic surgery. 377 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: Injections be far called yeah jump in polymers. Yeah, well, 378 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: they're like a synthetic material, like a plastic But let me, 379 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: can I make one point, Nancy, I think that is 380 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: not being discussed that I think is really important. I 381 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: like you don't ever want a victim blame, but I 382 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: have treated literally hundreds of patients who have had these 383 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: foreign substances from all over the world. We highlight this 384 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: unbotched every season. But at the end of the day, 385 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: when you speak to these women who have these complications 386 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: from illegal pumping party injections, they all knew it was wrong. 387 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: They all knew it was dangerous. They had all seen 388 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: the reports, but they had a friend that had it 389 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: done by these illegal practitioners and it worked for their friends, 390 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: so they thought, well, maybe I'll go to the next 391 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: pumping party. So at the end of the day, we're 392 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: certainly not victim blaming, but these patients are very aware 393 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: that there's a dangerous practice, that people have been murdered 394 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: by this practice. Doctor Debro, you know how I feel 395 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: about you. I love you. I think you're wonderful. But please, Okay, 396 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: you could say that about drinking and driving. We all 397 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: know what's wrong, but yet why are so many people 398 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: dead in doing it. We all know cocaine is wrong, 399 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: we all know haro is wrong. We know oxy's wrong, 400 00:25:44,080 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: but people do it. They do it. I know time 401 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Karen Smith helped me out with me. 402 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: Karen L. Smith, forensic expert, lecturer, University Florida, host of 403 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: a hit series Shattered Souls podcast, and you can find 404 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: her at Karen's Forensic Karen The phenomena of a mother 405 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: leading their child astray. I'm talking about mother, daughter, mother's son, 406 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: tag teams in crime the first time I saw it, 407 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: and you and I've talked about this off air. As 408 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: I recall one day out in La the Sante Kimes case, 409 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: take listen to Tom Holly News three LV. It was 410 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: a sensational set of crimes the main national news in 411 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: the late nineties, the con artist and murder team of 412 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: Sante Kimes and her son Kenny. The two became a 413 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: household names when they were indicted on charges of kidnapping 414 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: and killing an elderly New York socialite. Nineteen years earlier, 415 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: Sante Kimes had been arrested in Las Vegas for both 416 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: grand and petty larceny, even though she was married to 417 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: a wealthy motel owner. Sante and her husband, Kenneth Senior, 418 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: were arrested for enslaving illegal immigrant maids. Sante, Kenneth and 419 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: their son Kenny, lived here at twenty one Jernamulane in 420 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: Paradise Palms. They added arson to their list of crimes, 421 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: but the more serious charges came that summer. Now she 422 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: and her son are at the center of an investigation 423 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: into the disappearance of a New York City millionaire, eighty 424 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: two year old Irene Silverman, last seen July fifth. So 425 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: far the evidence is circumstantial, but the cases building against 426 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: Kimes and her son, Kenneth. The two were arrested after 427 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: Silverman's disappearance on a different charge, but mother and son 428 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: were found guilty and there was more. David Kasden his 429 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: body found in a trash bin at the La Airport 430 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: earlier this year. It's suspected he transferred ownership of this 431 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: house over to the Kimes shortly before his death. That 432 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: was a mother's son one team that ended up in 433 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: multiple murders. And here you've got a mother daughter con 434 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: team that has ended up in at least one murder, 435 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: and God only knows what else what about it? Karen Smith, 436 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: how often have you seen a mother, the one you 437 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: should trust the most in the world, leading the child, 438 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: the adult child, down the path of destruction? This is 439 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: really unusual, Nancy, very unusual. You know, you have parents 440 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: who will discount their child's criminal behavior, you know, mitigate 441 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: and say, you know, it was a rough childhood or 442 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: whatever like that. But a team to team up like that, 443 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: that's something that's really unusual and something I'd like to 444 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: point out. This mother and daughter. We're taking cash only, 445 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: no cash, no service. That's untraceable, and that's problematic for 446 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: a few reasons. Obviously, they were doing it so they 447 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have to report taxes, be they could be cash only, 448 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: so that their patients were untraceable. So now if there 449 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: are more people they have to self report, they may 450 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: be embarrassed, they may not want to come forward because 451 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: you know, of social judgment. But another thing, they left 452 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: this young woman to die. They fled. They dialed nine 453 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: to one one and they ran. So that goes to 454 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, you're the lawyer, the mens rea, the guilty mind. 455 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: They knew what they were doing was completely illegal, They 456 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: knew that this girl was going to die, and they 457 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: fled the scene. She's absolutely right, David Woodruff. You're hearing 458 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: Karen L. Smith, forensic expert in Star of Shattered Soul's 459 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: podcast Now a hit series David Woodruffe. It's called flight, 460 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: and while many judges are no longer allowed under the 461 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: law to state it from the Criminal Code in jury instructions, 462 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: it can still be argued to juries that For instance, 463 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: when i see state patrol come up behind me and 464 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing seventy mph, I may tap the brakes, but 465 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: I don't take off running, because that's called flight, and 466 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: it is probitive of guilt. And that's just what this 467 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: mother and daughter did. They grabbed each other's hands and 468 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: took off. There was nothing but pale hole and elbows. 469 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: That's all you could see. They were running, and that 470 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: indicates to me they knew they had done a horrible thing. 471 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: That's right, And as Karen Smith points out, the flight 472 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: is evident that they knew prior to even beginning this 473 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: procedure that they were taking the risk of killing someone. 474 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: And everyone knows that if you want to kill somebody, 475 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: injecting a silicone mix that you buy at home depot 476 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: or at Walmart into their blood is a good way 477 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: to do it. And that's why they fled, because they 478 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: knew exactly what they'd done, and their friend was there. 479 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: If you read the story, This young lady's friend was 480 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: there watching as she started to go into respiratory and 481 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: cardiac arrest, and that's why they left, because he was 482 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: screaming at them for help, and instead of calling ninety one, 483 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: they fled. Nicole Parton joining me investigative report of the 484 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: crime online dot com. Were they actually videoing the process? 485 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: So they were not videoing, but Carissa herself video put 486 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: a couple of images on her social media network. Right 487 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: when I said they, I met Carrissa and the friend. Yeah, 488 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: because this was like a big event for them. They 489 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: had really no idea. Now, doctor Dubro says that people 490 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: know it's wrong. I'm not sure that individuals this young 491 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: and as young as Emmelyn was before her death. Yeah, 492 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: they know that there is a risk, but I don't 493 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: think they believe there's anything wrong with it. I don't 494 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: believe they understand they can die. In fact, this young 495 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: girl was owing the whole experience, you know, like I 496 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: just video the twins graduating from middle school because it 497 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: was a big deal. She's videoing. It tells me something, 498 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. Doctor Bethany, you know about my extens instead 499 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: of scrap books that I labor over for the twins. Yes, 500 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: and because their moments I never want to forget. That 501 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: is ringing. It's like an echo. This girl, Caissa, had 502 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: her friend there and they were videoing the whole thing 503 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: because it was such a great event in her life. 504 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: I think you can know and not know, Like like 505 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: the woman that goes on dating site and the guy 506 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: sounds a little creepy and between, well, probably shouldn't go 507 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: out with him. You know what, I really want to 508 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: find a husband. Maybe this time it'll be different. It's 509 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: really rationalizing to yourself that something that you know deep 510 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: in your core might not work out. Hey, maybe this 511 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: time it'll be an exception. We all build narratives to 512 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: justify to ourselves whatever it is we want to do, 513 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: whatever it is we feel we need to do to 514 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: make ourselves feel better. You know, we could call it 515 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: disavowal seeing something and not seeing it all at the 516 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: same time. So I think the victim knows on the 517 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: one hand and doesn't know on the other. And that's 518 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: the sad part is they disregard their own intuition. Guys, Pacho, 519 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: listen to our cut for our friend John Clemac at 520 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: NBC four telling them about one of two women charged 521 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: with the murder of an aspiring film star for allegedly 522 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: injecting her butt with an illegal silicon mixture, now in 523 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: court for the first time, the judge grinning NBC four 524 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: access in her words, to ensure public trust in the 525 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: judicial system. No plea entered today. Alicia Gallas and her mother, 526 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: Libya Dame, are accused of practicing medicine without a license, 527 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: injecting women with some sort of silicon mixture, and then 528 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: when the receidure went awry, fleeing the scene. Man, can 529 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: you just tell us to you? Do you believe that 530 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: you injected these people with poison? Did you want to 531 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: at least defend yourself in any way anything at all? 532 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: No words outside the courtroom from the accused guys. I 533 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: want you to hear one more piece of sound about 534 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: what we are learning about the procedure. Our cut one 535 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: our friends at NBC four. It is dangerous and it 536 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: is costing women in their lives in the San Fernando Valley. 537 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: Lapd says they believe there are more victims out there, 538 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: and if that's you, they want to hear from you. 539 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: The voices you're hearing belong to two women now behind bars. 540 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: The woman on the operating table was twenty six year 541 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: old Charissa Raje Paul, an aspiring film star who moved 542 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: to la from South Africa, but died last October. As 543 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: we looked into this investigation, we did find that it 544 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: is occurring a lot lapd Valley Burro homicide detective Bob 545 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: Dinlocker says Raj Paul had undergone three butt augmentations. This 546 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: video is from her second. She completed all three and 547 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: died immediately following number three. Libby, a Dame and her 548 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: daughter Alicia go Is are now charged with murder for 549 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: allegedly injecting Raj Paul with a liquid silicone mix. The 550 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: internet is filled with these horror stories where they're cutting 551 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 1: the medical grad silicone with the stuff that you would 552 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: calk your windows with. It's the bloodstream could attack the 553 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: heart and the brain and the kidneys. That is exactly 554 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 1: what doctor de Brot is telling us and also our 555 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: cut five. One of this mother daughter tag teams victims survived. Listen. 556 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: One of her alleged surviving victims did want to speak up. 557 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: Is that the woman that you that's the daughter terran 558 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: Quin Terry spoke to us from a recovery house in Colombia, 559 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: where she's still in the process of correcting what she 560 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: says was done wrong to her four years ago. The 561 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: daughter is part of what made me like feel okay 562 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: doing it, because she was like, look I have them, 563 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: you know. The daughter definitely helped sell me. Quin Terry 564 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: says she wanted a bigger butt, paid three thousand dollars 565 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: for the procedure to a dama and her daughter. Six 566 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: months later, a rash formed and it wouldn't go away. 567 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: She says, whatever was injected into her made its way 568 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: into her muscle tissue. I had some migrate to my 569 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: legs and I had some near my sciatic nerve, which 570 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: I have to have a whole separate surgery for that 571 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: done by a separate surgeon. It's why she's in Columbia now. 572 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: She says. A doctor was able to remove only fifty 573 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: percent of whatever it is that's still in her body. 574 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: It's as serious as this. I could die from this 575 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: at one one day, and there's no way to get 576 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: this out of me as of today. Doctor Terry Jay 577 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: Debro joining us from bots and seven year stitch on 578 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: e Dotor Debro. Please, if you could translate everything that 579 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: we just heard, and I don't see how this is 580 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: any different from injecting someone with pure poison and they die. 581 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: It's very similar. So they take this material, this foreign body, 582 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: they get blue hardware stores, they injected into various parts 583 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: of the body, and two things happen. Either you get 584 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: into a blood vessels and it blocks off an organ 585 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 1: or your lung. Can you die, or over time, at best, 586 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,919 Speaker 1: your body reacts to it. Your immune system activates its 587 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: surveillance systems and causes an inflammatory reaction as the material 588 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: migrates to other parts of your body, and it causes 589 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: other kinds of inflammatory changes that are really difficult to fit. 590 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: So just I want to warn everyone out there, if 591 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: you know anyone who's ever thinking about having foreign body 592 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: injected at these pumping parties, warn them that even if 593 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: they get away with it in the short term, that 594 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: in the longer term, it's like having a sleeping giant 595 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: in there and you wake up this sleeping giant and 596 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: it reachs havoc over your entire body, and it literally 597 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: guarantees you will have a problem in the future. So 598 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: don't ever do this, stim trial lawyer David Wood, if 599 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: I guarantee they're going to get off light. I can. 600 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: I mean, they've already made vond can't you hear their 601 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: high heels clicking along as they were talking and of 602 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: some of that sound. They're already out on land. We 603 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: can certainly hope that they will be back in jail 604 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: before long. Nancy, there's no question that murder charges against 605 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: these two women are valid and are going to stick 606 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: in my opinion, because, as you know, the men's ray 607 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: which you talked about earlier, they're intent when they performed 608 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: this procedure was to do something that any reasonable person 609 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: would know could result in death. And I'd like to 610 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: blame just the mom, David Woodruff, but you heard one 611 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: victims say, hey, the daughter really sold as she said, Look, 612 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: I had it and that's the reason I did it. Yeah. 613 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean one of the things that doctor Bethany pointed 614 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: out earlier is really valid here, which is these women 615 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: are who are looking for this kind of improvement in 616 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: their body image. They are receiving validation from these liar 617 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: criminals who are injecting them with illegal substances. They look 618 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: for some support, and these are smooth criminals that are 619 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: telling them I can make you look better for a discount, 620 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: let me do it, and they're they're falling for it. 621 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened here. That's why these murder 622 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: charges are so appropriate. You are hearing David Woodscher of 623 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: high profile Denver trial lawyer who's expert. One of his 624 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: expertise is this exact kind of case, along with doctor Dubro, 625 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, Karen Smith, and Cole Parton. If you 626 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: have been a victim of these women, call eight one 627 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: eight three, seven, four nine five five zero repeat eight one, eight, three, seven, 628 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: four nine five five zero. Don't let them get away 629 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: with this. Nancy Grace Crime's choice, signing off goodbye for