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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

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Speaker 1: one thirty two. Happy Valentine's everybody, This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, Thank you for being with us. And

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Speaker 1: what would Valentine's Day be without murder? I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it would be in my world. The two are

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Speaker 1: very very connected with me right now. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer,

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Speaker 1: psychologist and host of Investigation Discoveries, Fatal Vows, Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: Director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Ashley Wilcot, lawyer

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Speaker 1: and advocate, and investigative journalist alexis Terress Chuck with Radar

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Speaker 1: Online dot Com first to Dr Brian Russell, host of

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Speaker 1: Fatal Vows on Investigation Discovery. Dr Brian Russell, I've got

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Speaker 1: a question for you, and please Dr Russell, all know

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Speaker 1: you're brilliant. Would you please try to talk regular people

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Speaker 1: talk for me? Explain to me what you mean in

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Speaker 1: your love lessons, shoot for stability and mental help. I mean,

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Speaker 1: isn't that pretty much a given? Dr Russell? You don't

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Speaker 1: want some psycho, right, you certainly would think. So? What

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Speaker 1: better day than Valentine's Day to talk about how not

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Speaker 1: to end up on Fatal Vows not to end up

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Speaker 1: on my show. And one of the things that we've

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Speaker 1: seen over the five seasons we've been on the air

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Speaker 1: is that many times when you look back at the

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Speaker 1: end of the episode, there were signs readily available in

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Speaker 1: the murderer from the beginning that they were at least

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Speaker 1: going to be nothing but trouble for the victim, and

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Speaker 1: potentially nothing but trouble, Sheryl McCollum. Why do we gravitate

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Speaker 1: towards bad boys nothing but trouble? Why is that because

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Speaker 1: you want somebody that kind of goes against the grain.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna do some things that's always been kind of forbidden.

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Speaker 1: It's a last Well. I don't know what kind of

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Speaker 1: life you're living, Sheryl McCollum, but I want some money

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Speaker 1: to get out of bed with me at five o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the morning, you get to work, helping me get

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Speaker 1: the children to school and paying the house. Note that's

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Speaker 1: what I want. Okay, I know that's not very sexy.

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Speaker 1: But Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist and host of the

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Speaker 1: hit show Fatal Vows on Investigation Discovery, let me ask

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Speaker 1: you this, Uh, do you remember Jodi Aris. Listen, dear

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Speaker 1: friend of Travis Alexander overheard Travis arguing with Arius on

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Speaker 1: the telephone. Mike, thank you for being with us, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me. Mike. I'm kind of knocked out

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Speaker 1: by Travis explaining to you how he was so distressed

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Speaker 1: when Arius decided to move back to Mesa that he

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Speaker 1: did not want her to move back. He told her

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Speaker 1: not to move back. She moved back anyway. She would

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Speaker 1: actually get into his home by coming through the doggie door. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there were lots of stories about times when she was

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Speaker 1: sneaking around his house, you know, and even sneaking into it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he would find her. They're you know, late

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Speaker 1: at night. Um, you know, I heard one person talk

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Speaker 1: about a story that he related to them of she

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Speaker 1: she was vacuuming his house in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: So just really really creepy behavior all the way around.

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Speaker 1: That was me interviewing a principle in the Arias murder

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Speaker 1: of Travis Alexander on Headline News. The moment somebody tries

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Speaker 1: to get in your doggie door, Dr Brian Russell, don't

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Speaker 1: you think that's kind of a tip off there's something

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Speaker 1: way wrong. Well, exactly. And you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: aspects of this that that we're talking about is the

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Speaker 1: bad boy bad girl phenomenon, where somebody's exciting and people

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Speaker 1: go for the excitement and sort of tune out all

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Speaker 1: of the other red flags. But the other aspect of

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Speaker 1: this is the rescuing aspect. There are many people in

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Speaker 1: this affects men and women both who are drawn to

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Speaker 1: somebody that they feel is in distress and that they

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Speaker 1: can rescue. And a lot of times they think it's

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Speaker 1: about them wanting to do such wonderful thing for somebody else,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of times it's actually about themselves feeling

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Speaker 1: good and powerful and useful and all of that. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I've said for five years

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Speaker 1: on Fatal Vows is a relationship that starts with a

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Speaker 1: rescue is almost never a good idea because white, white,

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Speaker 1: white don't mess with my head. Brian Russell, are you

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Speaker 1: telling me the whole pretty woman thing with Julia Roberts

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Speaker 1: is that's not true? Right? Okay? Hold on, listen to this,

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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell with me Murder plus Valentine's Day? What

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Speaker 1: could be better? Listen in three or four hours with

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Speaker 1: him in a truck in August, and during that time

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Speaker 1: he and Arias were going at it on the phone

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Speaker 1: and on text. What were they arguing about? Um, Travis

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Speaker 1: was just arguing with her and she was arguing back

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Speaker 1: about her moving to Mesa after they had broken up.

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Speaker 1: It was the first time that I had actually learned

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Speaker 1: about this. And yeah, we were in the truck for

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Speaker 1: a few hours and it was text messages and phone

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Speaker 1: calls and a lot of what I heard, you know,

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Speaker 1: on on Travis's end was just you know, why did

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Speaker 1: you move there. We're not together, We're not going to

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Speaker 1: be together anymore. You have no reason to be there

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Speaker 1: that you know. There's no other reason for you to

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Speaker 1: move to Mesa but for me, So stop making those

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Speaker 1: excuses and you know, just tell me why you did it.

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Speaker 1: And it went on that way from Mike. One of

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Speaker 1: the photos that you showed us, you met up with

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Speaker 1: Travis at one of the conventions and you thought, as

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Speaker 1: you said, it was an areas free weekend. Liz, do

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Speaker 1: you have that shot? And then you look at photos

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Speaker 1: taken of you with with him or just him and

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Speaker 1: selling there's areas kind of like filing at the camera

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Speaker 1: in the background and only then did you realize she

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Speaker 1: was there? That's from h l N. Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: so she was actually showing up at work events, out

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Speaker 1: of town, work events where she wasn't supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: You take a shot of Travis Alexander and who is

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Speaker 1: now dead, by the way, Jodiarius murdered him, and there

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Speaker 1: in the background photo bom, there's Jody Arius. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at it right now. She's smiling in the distance. Dr

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Speaker 1: Brian Russell, the first thing you say is shoot from

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Speaker 1: Mental Health and Stability Alexis terres Chuck Radar online dot

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Speaker 1: Com joining us Alexis. There were so many signs and

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Speaker 1: we're just using Jody Aris and Travis Alexander, her lover

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Speaker 1: now deceased, as an example of when you start getting

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Speaker 1: that hinky feeling you you come in and there in

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Speaker 1: your home, vacuuming your home at night. That's wrong. When

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Speaker 1: you find out they go through the doggie door, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: get away, run, run for the hills, as if you

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Speaker 1: had seen a monster. What more can you tell me

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Speaker 1: about this example? Jodi Arius and Dr Brian Russell's list

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Speaker 1: number one sheet from Mental Health Instability are examples that

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Speaker 1: Jodi Arias did everybody was over at Travis's house for

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Speaker 1: Christmas having a party. All of a sudden people noticed

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Speaker 1: Jody had snuck in the house and she was hiding

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Speaker 1: behind the Christmas tree. Okay, well what well, let me

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Speaker 1: just let that sink in a moment. Don't don't say

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Speaker 1: another word. Hold on, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Institute. Cheryl, you and I have prosecuted a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases together. But if I come in and my

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Speaker 1: boyfriend is hiding behind the Christmas tree, he's getting a

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Speaker 1: butt full of butt shot. Okay, oh yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: good way to get shot. There ain't no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: And anything. The main thing that I can't hear and

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Speaker 1: over and over if people explaining away behavior, well she

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Speaker 1: loves you, well she couldn't be away from me. Well

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Speaker 1: if they were a perfect couple, stop explaining away a stalker,

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Speaker 1: a criminal, a con artist. Stop it. She's crazy. Ashley Willcott,

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Speaker 1: lawyer and advocate Ashley Shoot for Mental Health and Stability.

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Speaker 1: Help me out, Ashley, run, don't walk. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: If you ever heard this expression, and I'm saying it

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Speaker 1: can be true for women as well. But you know

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Speaker 1: I've always heard, Hey, crazy women, they're great and in

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Speaker 1: the sack, and so I do think that comes into play.

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Speaker 1: I think that sometimes it's like, oh, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun it's okay if they're a little crazy. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: there's no such thing as a little crazy. Okay, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: I've never really heard that. Okay, I guess we're running

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Speaker 1: in different circles, all right, Dr Brian Russell, I think

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott could use your help right now. So what

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Speaker 1: we're hearing, what we're talking about right now are signs

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Speaker 1: of crazy that come out during the course of the relationship,

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Speaker 1: things that that Travis, for example, observed in his relationship

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Speaker 1: with Jody. One of the things I want to mention though,

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Speaker 1: is when you're first getting to know somebody, if you

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Speaker 1: hear them talking about, you know, a really really chaotic,

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Speaker 1: crazy childhood that they had, or a struggle a history

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Speaker 1: of struggle they've had with mental illness or addiction or

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Speaker 1: something like that, sometimes people are inclined to hear those

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Speaker 1: stories and think, oh my gosh, I feel so sorry

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Speaker 1: for this person. I really want to, you know, try

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Speaker 1: to be there for this person. I really want to

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Speaker 1: try to help this person have a good life now

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Speaker 1: by being in their life and being a good relationship

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Speaker 1: partner for them. And one of the things I often

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Speaker 1: point out on fatal vows is just because you somebody

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Speaker 1: went through something horrific or they've struggled with something and

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Speaker 1: you feel sorry for them, does not mean that they

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Speaker 1: and it might be through no fault of their own,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that they are going to be

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Speaker 1: equipped to be a good relationship partner for you. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they've had a good example of what healthy

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Speaker 1: relationships look like. Doesn't mean that they are not, you know,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately plagued with all kinds of struggles of their own

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Speaker 1: that are gonna be big trouble for you. And so

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Speaker 1: just because you feel sorry for somebody doesn't mean you

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Speaker 1: have to sacrifice yourself to them. Okay, Dr Brian Russell,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this in regular people speak because um,

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Speaker 1: I learned that really from hearing parables when I couldn't

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Speaker 1: understand the concept, and then I transferred it to juries.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Ashley Alexis, we've all been in I guess we

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Speaker 1: have been in bad relationships before we find our prints. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And you know, as my husband David Lynch says, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not perfect, and oh true words were

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Speaker 1: never spoken. But you know what, I always say back

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Speaker 1: if I'm not seething at the moment. You know what,

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Speaker 1: you may not be perfect, but you're perfect for me. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me let you just go to Alexis to Red Chuck. Certainly, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: you had your share of frogs. Okay, let me just

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Speaker 1: give a couple of examples. Not your frog's mine. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there was um, let me just say my my first love,

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Speaker 1: all right, his dad was an alcoholic that I later

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Speaker 1: learned beat the mom. I guess I learned it at

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Speaker 1: the time, actually, and the sun was so nervous. Ah,

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Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes, fun personality, but so nervous. And you know, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: you and I have learned from all the cases we've covered.

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Speaker 1: If your parents had an abusive relationship, you're likely to

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Speaker 1: abuse or be abused in your relationships. That's one frog.

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Speaker 1: Let's say that there was another frog that I just

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Speaker 1: happened to look on his computer and find out he

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Speaker 1: was contacting meal order brides from Russia. Whoopsie. Oh kay.

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Speaker 1: Then let's say who's another frog? Oh yeah, there's another

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Speaker 1: frog that always wanted to pick out my clothes and

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Speaker 1: jewelry and tell me how much better I would look

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Speaker 1: in that than my typical black pants and boots. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with that? So alexis having somebody that wants

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Speaker 1: to dress you up like a Barbie doll. That's a

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Speaker 1: little weird, right. It's following you up and down the

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Speaker 1: stairs with a string of fake pearls to put around

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Speaker 1: your neck. You don't, that's not bothering you. Alexis well

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Speaker 1: kind of your really shift, yes, But to me it

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Speaker 1: sounds like an episode of The Bachelor. Now these people

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Speaker 1: are normalizing though, you know the on the very first

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Speaker 1: episode of The Bachelor this season, he took her out

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Speaker 1: and boughter clothes and butter jewelry and everything like that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm working. I don't have time to watch

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Speaker 1: The Bachelor. Although didn't sub Bachelor just run down somebody

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Speaker 1: on a tractor then that I was interested in. Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: help me out. It seems innocent, but then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you're running through the house and they're chasing

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Speaker 1: you with a knife. Exactly, Nancy. I cannot stress this enough.

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Speaker 1: The first time you get a feelings this is odd

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Speaker 1: or this doesn't make me feel good, or this is weird,

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Speaker 1: you need to listen to that and take action because

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Speaker 1: of it. It ain't gonna get any better, did I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you we all know dating is when they put

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Speaker 1: their best foot forward. So this is the best it's

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Speaker 1: ever gonna be. Right, Well, does she have a point?

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Speaker 1: I mean, does she have a point? Dr Brian Russell, Yes,

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Speaker 1: she does, she does. That's right. When the person is

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Speaker 1: trying to impress you as usually when they're gonna be

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Speaker 1: concealing as best they can, those aspects of themselves that

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Speaker 1: they know are gonna be red flags potentially. And so

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Speaker 1: this is another thing you have to give yourself plenty

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Speaker 1: of time to get to know somebody, because these things

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Speaker 1: take time sometimes to to show themselves, especially when somebody's

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Speaker 1: actively trying to conceal them. Okay, hold on just a moment,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this with her also friends with

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Speaker 1: Travis alex Ander Patrick Henry is with us um. Mr Henry,

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Speaker 1: you described a scenario that occurred about two months prior

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Speaker 1: to Travis's murder where a group of people were talking

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Speaker 1: together um about the breakup of Travis and Jodie Alexander.

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Speaker 1: What happened. Well, in in that conversation, we were all

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Speaker 1: discussing and someone had brought up I wonder what happened

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Speaker 1: all of JODI's ex boyfriends, and one of one young

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Speaker 1: young lady said, they're probably buried in the desert somewhere. Okay.

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Speaker 1: You know what when people are standing around talking about

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Speaker 1: if your previous boyfriends and girlfriends all right, uh, dead

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Speaker 1: and buried in the desert, that's a problem. Listening a

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Speaker 1: longtime friend Travis Alexander's Jacob Mefford. He actually went on

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Speaker 1: that cancoon trip, the one that Alexander didn't make because

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Speaker 1: it was dead. Jacob, thanks for being with us. Thank you, Jacob.

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Speaker 1: You went on the camcoon trip. You had socialized with

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Speaker 1: Arius in the past. Take it from the beginning. When

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Speaker 1: did you first meet her and what was your impression? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: back into MySpace days before Facebook, my wife had was

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Speaker 1: friends with Travis and was kind of searching through some

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Speaker 1: comments and saw a comment by Jody and immediately pulled

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Speaker 1: up her profile on MySpace and was completely creeped out

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Speaker 1: about what she saw. There was a lot of like

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Speaker 1: witchcraft things and just really creepy stuff that just wait, wait, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know this. You're gonna have to run that

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Speaker 1: by me again. Witchcraft. What was this when she was

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Speaker 1: already eating Travis Um. Yeah, apparently I didn't know at

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Speaker 1: the time that she had. They had just met in

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Speaker 1: Vegas maybe a month or a couple of weeks before,

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Speaker 1: but she had Witchcraft listed on her my Space. She

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Speaker 1: had a bunch of different, you know, freaky things on

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Speaker 1: her MySpace page. That is from my previous show on

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Speaker 1: hl in Headline News. Okay, I would say what new

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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell that you should look on the when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at a potential mate, you should look them

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Speaker 1: up on the internet, and if they've got Witchcraft is

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Speaker 1: an interest, probably cancel the next day. Absolutely. And let

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Speaker 1: me point something else out everybody on this show here

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Speaker 1: today with us is even though we're all young people,

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Speaker 1: we've got enough life experience that something like that jumps

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Speaker 1: out at us immediately. And and another one of my

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Speaker 1: lessons that I often tell people, you know, when you

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Speaker 1: are twenty or twenty one or twenty two, sometimes these

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Speaker 1: kinds of things you think, Oh, isn't the person so

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Speaker 1: interesting or aren't they. Isn't that so exciting that they're

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Speaker 1: interested in some bizarre, weird stuff like that? You have

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Speaker 1: to get wait, you ought to wait before you commit

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Speaker 1: somebody to somebody in life into you're old enough to

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Speaker 1: have enough life experience under your own belt to know

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Speaker 1: what it is that you want, what kind of background

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Speaker 1: a person would have that would that would be a

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Speaker 1: good partner for you. Uh, you really are probably not

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Speaker 1: well equipped at twenty Dr Brian Russell. Your your desires

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Speaker 1: and what you're looking for changes. Like in high school

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Speaker 1: you're just looking for somebody to go to the prom,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and college you're looking for somebody to hang

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Speaker 1: out with and have fun with. Uh. When you're first working,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just speaking for myself, you're probably looking for

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Speaker 1: someone to enjoy interests like hiking or whatever it is

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Speaker 1: you like. Then suddenly, in my mind, at least with

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Speaker 1: me Ashley Willcought, it all shifted and what I was

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Speaker 1: looking for when I wanted to start a family. It

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Speaker 1: does shift, and that's natural. That's the natural progression as

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Speaker 1: you get older and get wiser. But you have to

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Speaker 1: know it doesn't mean if your and you meet someone

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Speaker 1: that's fun and exciting and different. That doesn't mean jump

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Speaker 1: into a relationship with him. It doesn't mean let's have

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Speaker 1: this big relationship where she has an opportunity to get

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Speaker 1: crazy in in this particular case and actually murder me.

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Speaker 1: It means go to something else, go to some other

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Speaker 1: kind of fun, stay away from crazy with me. Dr

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Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host of the hit show Fatal

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Speaker 1: Vows on investigation Discovery. Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Institute, Ashley Willcott, lawyer, an advocate, and Alexis terress

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Speaker 1: Chuck Radar online dot Com filling us in when all

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Speaker 1: the facts, I want to pause and thank my partner

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Speaker 1: making today's Valentine's Equals Murder Special possible. It's Legal Zoom.

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Speaker 1: com and we had to Modesto California joining me. Dr

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Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host of the hit show on

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Speaker 1: investigation Discovery, Fatal Vows. Cheryl McCollum, diorge of the Cole

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Speaker 1: Case Institute, Ashley Wilcott, lawyer and advocate, an investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chut. Dr Brian Russell, host of Fatal Vows.

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Speaker 1: You claim one of the major rules and finding a

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Speaker 1: sweetheart or husband, never ever have an affair with a

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Speaker 1: married person. Explain, I say, never get anywhere near an affair.

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Speaker 1: Don't have an affair with a married person. Don't be

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Speaker 1: a married person having an affair. Don't be married to

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Speaker 1: a person who has affairs. And the reason is simple

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Speaker 1: that they're there. Examples are legion. Anytime there's cheating in

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Speaker 1: a marriage, there's danger for the cheater, the cheaty, the paramore.

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Speaker 1: Cheats killed cheaters to get vengeance. Cheaters killed cheat ees

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Speaker 1: to get freedom without having to give up assets or

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Speaker 1: parenting time. Paramore's killed cheats to free the chie Sorry,

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Speaker 1: all I can think of is cheetos. Okay, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: You can tell I'm all white watchers right now, I'm

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Speaker 1: living off those little bitty tiny oranges with no seeds

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Speaker 1: in them. Okay, back to cheat ease. Get what what

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Speaker 1: did you say, Dr Russell? Well, people who are cheated

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Speaker 1: on cheat eas killed cheaters when they find out. Cheaters

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Speaker 1: sometimes kill the cheat ees to to try to free

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Speaker 1: themselves from the marriage without having to pay anything or

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Speaker 1: and or lose parenting time and a divorce. Paramore's killed

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Speaker 1: kill spouses of their their affair partners, sometimes to free

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Speaker 1: up the affair partner from the marriage. There are just

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Speaker 1: way too many dangers involved for you to get anywhere

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Speaker 1: near an extra marital affair in any one of those rules. Well,

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Speaker 1: alesis Tourez Chuck, investigative reporter with Radar online dot Com,

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Speaker 1: a cheat t and cheat tour who end up in

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Speaker 1: a murder scenario. I have to think of Scott Peterson.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Scott Peterson, alexis to rest Chuck, Well,

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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson was married to this beautiful woman, lazy, and

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Speaker 1: she was pregnant with their baby. He started having an affair.

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Speaker 1: He cheated on her with a woman called Amber Fry,

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Speaker 1: and he lied to Amber. He told her he was

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Speaker 1: not married I to his girlfriend. Wait a minute, what

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Speaker 1: about lying to his wife. Well, he never told her

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Speaker 1: that he was having an affair, so he was lying

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Speaker 1: to his wife. Now back to his lines with Amber Fry,

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Speaker 1: and believe me, she was not the first Alexis Okay,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. He started dating Amber. She lived about an

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Speaker 1: hour away from him. They were so he was so

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Speaker 1: full of it with her that she put him on

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Speaker 1: her Christmas card. They started dating in November. They were

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Speaker 1: so he had convinced her that they were so serious

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Speaker 1: about the relationship that she put him on her Christmas Oh,

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Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven, trying to refrain from that until

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Speaker 1: after at least the first child, before putting the guy

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Speaker 1: on your Christmas card. But wait a minute, Wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: When you say he was so full of it, he

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Speaker 1: was a fertilizer salesman by Trey aid, you know what

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Speaker 1: that is. Okay, he was selling manure, and boy was

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Speaker 1: he good at it. So let's take a listen, Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: I really cannot hear these secretly recorded audio tapes enough.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when they cracked wide open? Cheryl Nancy?

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Speaker 1: I remember it. I loved it because he was so

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Speaker 1: full of it. It was unbelievable. But you know, keep

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Speaker 1: in mind he was such a con artist that there

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Speaker 1: were things that she missed or just chose to ignore.

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Speaker 1: She had never been to his house, she had never

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Speaker 1: met his family, she had never hung out with his friends.

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Speaker 1: So there were signs that this perfect person you know,

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Speaker 1: probably was not being completely open and honest with her.

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Speaker 1: And keep in mind, this is what I tell people

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Speaker 1: all the time, having an affair equals motive. You're putting

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Speaker 1: your self agriff well, Ashley Wilcott. One of the first

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Speaker 1: things I asked when somebody is telling me about their

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Speaker 1: new boyfriend or prospective husband. I'm like, have you been

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Speaker 1: to his place? Number one question? Have you been to

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Speaker 1: his place? That's exactly because if he doesn't take you home,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason why all those signs exactly. You have

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Speaker 1: to know you that's somebody who truly cares about you

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Speaker 1: and is appropriate not having an extramarital affair, is absolutely

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Speaker 1: going to include you in their life. They want you

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Speaker 1: to come over, they want you to meet friends, they

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Speaker 1: want to meet out for dinner with friends and family.

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Speaker 1: If they're not doing that, I'm sorry. Your guts should say, oh,

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Speaker 1: red flag, red flag. So Dr Brian Russell, I know

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Speaker 1: you're the lawyer and you're the psychologist, and you're the

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Speaker 1: host of the hit show Investigation Discoveries Fatal Vows, but

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Speaker 1: can you please listen to us. You need to put

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Speaker 1: that on your list. If the person doesn't take you

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Speaker 1: home to their apartment, no matter how humble, there is

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Speaker 1: no place like home and they don't want you part

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Speaker 1: of their life. To me, that's a big red flag,

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Speaker 1: Dr Brian. But Dr Brian, hold on, hold on, let's

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Speaker 1: listen to the real deal. We're all just apothesizing. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Scott Peterson who's being secretly recorded as

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Speaker 1: he convinces his lady love that the reason he can't

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Speaker 1: be with her on New Year's Eve is because he's

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Speaker 1: in Paris with his family and he's hooked up with

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Speaker 1: some French friends, Juck and Pierre. I mean, what a load.

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Speaker 1: Listen Amber, Amber, Yes, I can hear you. Yes, okay, okay,

425
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, stay stiller something. How's your how is union here?

426
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 1: How is your New Year? That's good art? Now if

427
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: they came out of hour that night? Yeah, it is

428
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: very good. Firearch there for the evil power than people

429
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: playing songs. That's very funny. Well, that's good. I'm glad

430
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: you guys said to go out. Definitely. I can never

431
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: remember your friend's name. I know, Jeff, but you always

432
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: say a bomb swans and then we have a touch

433
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: caw frond of our h oh he said, oh yeah, resolution,

434
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: what with that should it be? What should I hear

435
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: you guyslution be Oh, I don't know that was my question.

436
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: I didn't think of that. I'll tell sound good. Yeah, yeah,

437
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: So where you headed? Um? Well, I don't did you

438
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: get my message? Let me just happen to point out

439
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: Alexis Terres Chuck. As he was making this call, trying

440
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: to convince his mistress that he was out of town

441
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: on New Year's Eve and couldn't be with her. He

442
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: was actually prepared to go to the vigil for his

443
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: then missing wife, Lacy Peterson and his unborn child, baby Connor,

444
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: who he had killed seven days earlier on Christmas Eve

445
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: and dumped her body in the San Francis Kobe. Let's

446
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: take another Listen to one of the masters of the

447
00:27:35,440 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: the con Scott Peterson. Okay, I don't want in person

448
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: telling you this, but I'm called you what I'm sure

449
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: it's why Cockey called me. Why Why was that? What

450
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: are you talking about? If you were staying that? I

451
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: am um, I'll just I'll just tell you you have

452
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: been watching the news how vifly? Yeah, I have not

453
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: been traveling during that couples I have. I've vied to

454
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: you what I've been traveling. M Girl, then dor and

455
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: GLUSI mhm. She disappeared just before Christmas m hm. Contact

456
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: two weeks has been in modeskto with her family mind

457
00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: searching for her. Okay, she just disappeared and no one knows. Okay,

458
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: now she's been there Scott, and I can't tell you

459
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: more because I needed to be protected from the media

460
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: and I okay, they are amazing, Scott. Are you listening?

461
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: Do you came to me in December and told me

462
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: that you lost your wife? What was that about? She?

463
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: She's alive? What she's alive? Where she's alive? Where? And now?

464
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: I know this is the hardest I I wanted to

465
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: tell you her side. You need to protect yourself from

466
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: the media, Okay, okay, if you watch the news, well

467
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: you have yeah, um, the media. I've been telling everyone

468
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: that I had something to do with her disappearance to

469
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: the past too many times and hunted by the media,

470
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: and I just I don't want you to be involved.

471
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: And then to protect yourself. I know that I you know,

472
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm destroyed, and I god, I hope, I hope so

473
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: much that it doesn't hurt you. How could it not

474
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: affect me? It does? Yeah? I like, how can you

475
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: possibly think that this would not affect me? And I

476
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: know it does, but I know I had I've just

477
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 1: been tone up about two weeks wanting to tell you,

478
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: and I'm the week that I have been just I

479
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: had to call me to tell you that you never,

480
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: you never asked my questions. I can't. I can't anymore.

481
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: I think I deserve so much better. There's no question,

482
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: so much better. Third lesson, First of all, look for

483
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: mental health and stability. Number two, don't get involved in

484
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: an affair or relationship with a married person, and don't

485
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: be that married person. But Dr Brian Russell, your number

486
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: three is be wary when your partner's first spouse or

487
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: boyfriend or girlfriend died mysteriously. Doesn't it seem like the

488
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: most obvious fatal vas lesson in the world, Nancy. If

489
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: somebody's got a previous partner who is missing from the

490
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: planet under bizarre circumti dances, wanting to get to the

491
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: bottom of that before you move an inch in the

492
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: direction of a relationship with that person ought to be

493
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: priority number one, if you even want to explore the

494
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: relationship possibility at all, which would be questionable for me. Yeah,

495
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: of course there are people like me, Cheryl. When I

496
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: met David, my fiancee had just been murdered and I had,

497
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: as you know, dropped out of college. I couldn't go forward.

498
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't even take shower or eat or anything. And

499
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: when I finally did go back to college. It was

500
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: with the intent to finish up and go to law school,

501
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: to put the bad guys behind bars. And I literally,

502
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, collided with David Lynch. And for the longest time, Cheryl,

503
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: as I told you, you know, many years ago, I

504
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: just could not be in love. I don't know. I

505
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: guess that'd be something for you Dr Russell to figure out.

506
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: But you know he stuck with me. But long story short,

507
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: my prior love was dead, had been killed, had been murdered,

508
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: and I was absolutely damaged goods, There's no doubt about that.

509
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: So it comes with a mixed bag. If this mysterious circumstances,

510
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell is saying stay away, but you know

511
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 1: it also comes even if it wasn't mysterious. That person

512
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: has got a lot of problems. You know I did

513
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: and do as a result of that crime, Cheryl. Remember

514
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: that the thing is a little different when you talk

515
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: about somebody like Threw Peterson or you talk about somebody

516
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: like men Turner. The difference is they're the only ones

517
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: telling the narrative of their story. So the people that

518
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: they need only here their version of what happened to

519
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: their former loved one. Your story was very like everybody knew.

520
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: There a record in the court house, everybody in town. Yeah,

521
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Cheryl McCollum. And you know what,

522
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: it's not just limited to men. I remember covering a

523
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: case in my own backyard of Lynn Turner. Okay, she

524
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: was born Julia Lynn Womack, and she's an American icon

525
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: in a bad way. She had not one, but two

526
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: men kill over. First her husband, Glenn Turner, he died

527
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: after being sick with the flu. And then after that

528
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: it didn't end There two men that ended up dead.

529
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: Found out they both died from ethleene glycol e anti freeze.

530
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Prosecutors say defendant Lynn Turner

531
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: laced jello with anti freeze and fet to her husband.

532
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: Six years later, they say she put anna freeze in

533
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: iced tea and gave it to her boyfriend, Randy Thompson.

534
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: I want me to convict a woman of murder? Can

535
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: you not at least tell me these things, show me

536
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: some evidence, so, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case

537
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: Research Institute. The second man knew the first man had

538
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: died of an illness, but he didn't know what so

539
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: I would term that mysterious, Oh, no doubt. And you

540
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: know one of the husbands was a firefighter, one was

541
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: a police officer. She had this thing about heroes, and

542
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: you know she cooked for him all the time and

543
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: supposedly cared for them when they got ill um but

544
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: again she didn't want people around. It was only her narrative.

545
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: All they knew is what she told that. Joining me

546
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: now is Dr Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst out of Los Angeles,

547
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: Dr bethany way In. When you are looking at a

548
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: perspective mate and you find out there's a dead body

549
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: in the background, well, well, definitely you should find out

550
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: if they have a criminal record before you date them, right.

551
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: I would look at everything, especially with all these dating

552
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 1: sites out there, see if they have a criminal record,

553
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: try to get a sense of their financial history. But

554
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: but a dead body in their background, I think is

555
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: something one should think about, because seriously, most people who

556
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: are okay, I love the way you put I think

557
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: it's definitely something you should think about. Dr Brian Russell

558
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: hold on, it's not all that romantic to be running

559
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: your boyfriend's rap sheet. Well, it's true, It's true. Unfortunately, though,

560
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: what we know is that in the United States of America,

561
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: people generally gather more information about others when they're thinking

562
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: about going into some kind of a business deal with

563
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: them than when they're thinking about getting married. Even though

564
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: the consequences of marriage and parenting long term are so

565
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: much more profound than the consequences of getting into a

566
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: bad business relationship where you might just lose some money.

567
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: Somebody who has a literal skeleton in their closet is

568
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: somebody that you really cannot afford to get yourself involved

569
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: with for for for reasons much greater than financial ladies.

570
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: Has come to my attention that Dr Brian Russell is

571
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: currently dating someone. Is that true? Dr Brussel, You're not

572
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 1: yet married, not yet, which I have grilled you over

573
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: in the past. But Dr Russell, could you just be honest.

574
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: Have you run a rap sheet? I'm taking I have

575
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: not run a rap sheet. But the reason why is

576
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: because I've given myself plenty of time to get to

577
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: know this person and look for you know, if they're

578
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: R Russell. Just stop right there. Okay, this isn't direct,

579
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: this is cross exam. I can cut you off. Dr Russell.

580
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: You need to take your own medicine. Okay, after we

581
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: get off the air, you can just give a name

582
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: I dab to Cheryl McCollum and she can run that immediately. Cheryl,

583
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: how hard is it to get somebody's wrap sheep in? It?

584
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: Like probably about across the country. It's real quick and

585
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of fights you can go to and

586
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: do it online. You don't even have to leave your

587
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: app see see and and alexis Ashley Dr Bethany. Feel

588
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: free to give me those dabs and I can still

589
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: run your husband's wrap sheets for you, just in case

590
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: you were wondering. Okay, you think, yeah, this is Ashley

591
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 1: I did. I gotta just true confession. And my husband

592
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: little loves you and listen to the show. He's gonna

593
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: know it all now. I did not only do a

594
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: background check. Just do a Google search and you can

595
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: find out things. If there's anything bad, there wasn't, thank god.

596
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying it does not take a rocket

597
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: scientist to look online and figure out if there's any

598
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: kind of information that should again be a red flag.

599
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: I even did a medical test on my husband, like

600
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: I had him to a test. I want to make

601
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: sure I'd at all of that thinking good thinking. Hey,

602
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: if they'll love you, they'll let you, They'll let you

603
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: have a blood test taken. That's exactly let me tell you,

604
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: that's where you're right. People, Listen to us. We know

605
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. We've learned from other people's mistakes.

606
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: Listen to this special guest, Joe Lopez, defense attorney for

607
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: Drew Peterson. He delivered the closing argument. The fact that

608
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: you guys claimed throughout that everybody else was lying, and

609
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: I'm referring to Kathleen Savio and Stacy Peterson. Why do

610
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: you say those two ladies were lying? What's in it

611
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: for them to lie? Well, we have to remember one

612
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 1: thing that Kathy was saying whatever she could about Drew

613
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: to people besides her best friend and the man that

614
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: she was in love. Was she told things to all

615
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: these other people. Would never mention anything to the man

616
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: that you just about lived with and to our next

617
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: door neighborho talked to do every day. That's absolutely not true,

618
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: kath Lean Savio, And of course I'm talking about the

619
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: ultimate don't get involved with someone when there's a dead

620
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: body in the background. Drew Peterson, his third wife Kathleen

621
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: Savio told many, many people, including her sister, that she

622
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: was afraid she ended up dead and drowned dead in

623
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: a bone dry bathtub covered with bruises. It was only

624
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: after her body was exhumed years later when the fourth wife, Stacy,

625
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: goes missing, that her death was determined to be a homicide.

626
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: Alexis Terres Chuck Radar online dot Com Drew Peterson was

627
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: in fact a police officer to boot. Stacy Peterson was

628
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: just a teen when she falls from married Drew Peterson

629
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: and they begin a relationship while he's still married to

630
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: Kathleen Savio until whoop, see Kathleen ends up dead and

631
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: he completely eyed to her. So this was even from

632
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: the very first thing. Don't dat a married guy, but

633
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: they the police didn't eat I guess because he was

634
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: a police officer. When his first third wife, first one

635
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: that was dead, was found, they said she drowned. She

636
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: was found in an empty bathtub with bruises all over

637
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: her body. Yet they called it accidental, accidental drowning. Everybody

638
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: was protecting this man, and these women did speak out

639
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: though they told so many people, and because her husband

640
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: was a respected member law enforcement, they believed him. They

641
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: were believing his defense attorney who was saying all of

642
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: this too. Listen to this, joining me right now from

643
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: Chicago is Joel Brodsky. This is the lawyer for accused

644
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: wife killer Drew Peterson, former cop Joel Brodsky. Is it

645
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 1: true that you put Stacy Peterson on the witness list

646
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: for trial? Well, the witness list has to contain anybody

647
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: that's a potential witness. If you don't have them on

648
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: the list and later on they show up, you can't

649
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: call them. So there's over We have a lot of

650
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: people on our witness list. The state has over twift

651
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: people on their witness list, a lot of people that

652
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 1: they maybe want to call but probably won't. So witness

653
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: lists included Rod cap Plays Brodsky. Uh, you're just giving

654
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: me a round about about why you put Stacy Peterson

655
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: on the witness list, because just in case she happens

656
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: to suddenly appear, you're gonna call her to testify to what. Well,

657
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing, this whole thing started when

658
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: she disappeared. Everybody presumed that something untoward happened if she

659
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: just ran off. All these other presumptions about Drew Peterson

660
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: kind of disappear into thin air. Really, like all those

661
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: cuts and bruises on Kathleen Sovia's body, they just disappear

662
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: in the thin air. Absolutely. Well, you know, we're looking

663
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: at those the cuts and bruises, for example, the one

664
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: in the back of the head, that's what she got

665
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: when she fell in the bathtub. But the other matters,

666
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: the other bruises that the state talks about are were

667
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: either older bruises. We've had three pathologists, three prominent pathologists

668
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: examined uh bruises. So what he beat her before he

669
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: killed her? Is that what you're saying? No, because no,

670
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: because those bruises were taken in the regular course of

671
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: of living and working out and just you know, rolling

672
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: around and playing with your kids. Because i don't have

673
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: any bruises on me, and I've got two four year

674
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: olds and I attempted to work out. I'm not covered

675
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: in bruises. About if there's an examination, we find there

676
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: are bruises. Everybody has something right now, and she's absolutely

677
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: covered head to toe with bruises. That's from h l N.

678
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. It really didn't end there. Dr Brian

679
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: Russell host Fatal Vows on investigation discovery. So on the

680
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: fourth wife, there's wife one, wife to wife three, Kathleen

681
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: Savio who ends up dead wife for States Peterson whose

682
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: body has never been found. But even after that, Brian,

683
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: he was trying to give other women Stacy Peterson's lingerie

684
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: and fur coats. I mean, who would he? Who would

685
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: want use the lingerie that goes without saying but from

686
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: your missing wife. Yeah, And while I completely agree with you,

687
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: I completely think it's a good idea to do a

688
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: background check. Look look at do a Google search, look

689
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: at people's Sometimes just what you can see on social

690
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: media says a lot about the person. But I have

691
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: to also add that not always is there a record.

692
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: That people can do lots of sociopathic things that don't

693
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: result in a criminal record. So that's why I'm always saying,

694
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: you have to spend a good long time with the

695
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: person and look at things like there. You gotta give

696
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: yourself time to see their their level of compassion, their ethics,

697
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: their morals, their work ethic, their integrity, uh their reliability,

698
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: and and so you have to give yourself time to

699
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: see them in lots of different situations. How did they

700
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: treat you when you are sick and you need some help.

701
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: Do they disappear or do they show up? Are they honest?

702
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: How do they treat waiters and waitresses and restaurants? Are

703
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: they jerks? Are they? Are they kind even if the

704
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: waitress or waiter screws up. I recently was at a

705
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 1: party where I talked to somebody who was a waitress

706
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: who told me asked me if I was still in

707
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: contact with a woman that I had dated several years ago,

708
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: and I said, no, not really, and she said, well,

709
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: that's too bad, because that woman is coming into my

710
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: restaurant with a new guy who flashes cash around. But

711
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: then when it's time to pay, credit card number one

712
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: sometimes doesn't go through and we have to use credit

713
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: card number two and he's a jerk to us. So

714
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: he's a jerk, he's a poser, And I'm kind of

715
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: concerned about her. And I said, well, I am too,

716
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: And if I were still in contact with her, I'd

717
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: tell her to be aware of this guy. So he

718
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: may not have a criminal record, but those kinds of things.

719
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, so it's a red flag if your

720
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: card your credit cards rejected, Because I'm in big, big trouble.

721
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, Cheryl McCollum at Christmas time, and I

722
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: don't want to give away any secrets in case my

723
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: twins are listening right now. But I kept having my

724
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: I tried to get the Best Buy credit card and

725
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: I was totally rejecting. There was a huge, big, long line. Okay.

726
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: Then I try to get a Target credit card to

727
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: get the you know discount. If you buy X amount

728
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: you get a ten percent discount on the spot. I

729
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: was totally rejected. Okay, I'm starting to wonder why, because

730
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: I work happen late my bills. Turns out, Cheryl McCollum,

731
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: about a year ago, my passport got stolen in the

732
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: post office, okay, and never made it out of the

733
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: post office because they found the envelope that it had

734
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: been in on the post office floor. Okay. So anyway,

735
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: at that moment, you know, when your passport stolen, that

736
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: that's bad. So there was a freeze put on all

737
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: my my dear I almost said, Julie departed, whoopsie um.

738
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: My dear husband followed the advice of whoever he's talking to,

739
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: and he froze all my accounts so nobody could take

740
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: out a credit card or anything like that. And I

741
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: guess he told me at the time, but I wasn't

742
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: thinking about it this Christmas until I got turned down

743
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: for two credit cards. Can I tell you the looks

744
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: on people's faces behind me when I get turned There's

745
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: a huge long line and everybody's piste off. They're ny

746
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: go home, and I'm trying to get a credit card.

747
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: But well, but wait a minute, why am I not

748
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: getting a Target or a Best Bike credit card? And

749
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: I had to deal at the walk of shame and

750
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: leave the store. So you know, hold on there about

751
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: the credit cards getting rejected, Cheryl, Well, the point he made, too,

752
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: was that he would flash all of this cash as

753
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: though he was well off. And that's where the posing

754
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: in with Drew Peterson. He was forty seven years old

755
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: when he shows up to date a nineteen year old safety. Now,

756
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tay, I have a teenage daughter in my

757
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: house and if a forty seven year old mate knocked

758
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: on my door to pick her up for a day,

759
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: as my father used to say, he'd get off that

760
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: porch a whole lot quicker and he got on it.

761
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 1: Oh oh my stars, Okay, wait a minute, wait minute,

762
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: Hold on, Hold on, Hold, hold your horses. We have

763
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: time for just one more lesson from Dr Brian Russell,

764
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: host a fatal vows on investigation discovery. Go ahead and

765
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: rub it in. You're not only a psychologist, you're a

766
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: lawyer to Okay, hold on, let's go with You've got

767
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: so many lessons and they're all good. But I think

768
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: you're right, Dr Brian. I think that addiction is abusive

769
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: is a really good one and you know, no offense.

770
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: But let's start with my whole buddy, Charlie Shane, Dr

771
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: Brian Russell. I mean he his longtime wife stuck with him,

772
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: had two children, has adopted the third. They got divorced,

773
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: and there's been one string. There's been a long string

774
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: of one woman after the next. But according to him,

775
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 1: Charlie Shane, he has an addiction. And you're absolutely right, Nancy,

776
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: you absolutely do not want to be in a relationship

777
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: with an addict. In my opinion, it's not a disease

778
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: and it isn't a please get help situation. It is

779
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 1: a you're out of here and you're not coming back,

780
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: at least until you've gotten help and established a sustained

781
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm talking long term pattern of clean, sober saying safe

782
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: responsible living. People ask me sometimes, well, I'm thinking about

783
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: dating somebody that's got history of addiction in their past.

784
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: How long should they be clean and sober before I

785
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: think about in relationship. I tell him ten years, ten

786
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: years of clean and sober living, and never ever ever

787
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: start a relationship with somebody while they or you are

788
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: in rehab. That is one of the worst time You're

789
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna make some of the worst decisions, and they're

790
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: gonna make some of the worst decisions during that time.

791
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: Remind me of circle back. I've got a question for you,

792
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell Um, you know to Dr Bethany Marshall

793
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: joining US psychoanalyst Oude of l A. Dr Bethany, When

794
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 1: I think about Denise Richards, she you know that was

795
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 1: Charlie Sheen's wife. I think he's been married twice. She

796
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: never trashes him. She you know, stands I wouldn't say

797
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: stands by, and but she's doing her best. I think

798
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: to raise those three children two by Sheen, you know,

799
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: this shows it's not all about looks. Denise Richards was

800
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: a bond girl for Pete's sake, Yet the husband cheats

801
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: and is with hookers. And and all sorts of bad behavior.

802
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: So it's not when somebody says, oh, my stars, his

803
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: wife is beautiful, why would he cheat? That has really

804
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, right, It has absolutely nothing

805
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: to do with it. And you know, Dr Brian Russell

806
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: went through such a nice list of things to look

807
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: for when you're dating. I liked the credit card example

808
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: I had that happened many years ago. I dated someone

809
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: briefly who we went to dinner and one credit card

810
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: after the other was declined. And I dated him very briefly,

811
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: but I found out that he had all these businesses

812
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: that were fake businesses, like he pretended to be this

813
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: big entrepreneur but nothing in his life. I was just

814
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: about to say, when the man says I'm an entrepreneur,

815
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: at run Run, they can tell you exactly what it

816
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: is they do. Run Run. You don't want to be

817
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 1: supporting some man. Hey, Dr Russell, let me circle back.

818
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: If you find out the guy has ever ever use prostitutes,

819
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: do you think that that's kind of a bad thing. Absolutely,

820
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: because it says something about the person's character that does

821
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: not go a wet character. That's why I always say,

822
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, even if somebody tells you things that make

823
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: you sad about things they did in their childhood or whatever.

824
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: If they're things like stealing, if they're things like intentionally

825
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 1: destroying things, the things that suggest bad character. That usually

826
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: does not change character pretty much. Stage about online cheating,

827
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: do you think that's a bad It doesn't matter if

828
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: it's online or in real life. Cheating is cheating is cheating.

829
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. I really hate to go because I'm

830
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: having so much fun talking about bad guys. That's why

831
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: I threw some bad women in there. I don't want

832
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: the men to feel left out? So where can I

833
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 1: find your list? God help me? Please don't put me

834
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: back on the market and nobody would be interested in me,

835
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: but Dr Brian Russell, where can I find your list?

836
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: I will put the complete list of all the lessons

837
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: learned from five seasons of Fatal Vows on my social

838
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: media today Valentine's Day. That's Dr Brian Russell on Facebook

839
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: and Twitter. Dr Brian Russell. I'm just just looking at

840
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: your picture right now. One quick question. Are those your

841
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: real teeth? They're awesome? I made They're perfect? Is that

842
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: real than you? They are real? Thank you? I wonder

843
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: if we should add that to the list. Stay away

844
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: from men that are too good looking. You certainly don't

845
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: want a man that's prettier than you, Okay, because that's

846
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: just bad for yourself image. Okay. Alexis to rash Chuck,

847
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, Sheryl McCollum, Dr Bethany Marshall and Dr Brian

848
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: Russell from Fatal Vows. Happy Valentine's Day, Nancy Nancy Grace

849
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, signing off, and Lord, thank you for me

850
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: not having to date right now. Goodbye friend,