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Speaker 1: M hm, are we all kicking? Hello? Friends? Whoa Sophie?

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Speaker 1: You talked over me while I introduced. We're leaving this in.

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Speaker 1: We're leaving the We're leaving this in. You did in

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Speaker 1: Orsten Wells kind of hello friends, Hello friends, We're leaving

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Speaker 1: this in. And I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 1: The show we tell you everything you don't know about

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Speaker 1: the very worst people in all of history, one of

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Speaker 1: whom is my producer Sophie, who is flipping me the

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Speaker 1: bird right now. Because I demand honesty in my podcast,

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Speaker 1: which means we leave in the twenty seconds before I

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Speaker 1: introduced the show, when we're just talking over each other,

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Speaker 1: that's because we're professionals. I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind

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Speaker 1: the Bastards. We talked about bad people to hey, we're

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Speaker 1: continuing to talk about Alfred Hitchcock. My guest ed, Keith,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing? Hi? Hi? Hi? I over up

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Speaker 1: your No, it's fine as long as we leave it

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Speaker 1: in because it's honest. Yeah, yeah, don't edit that out

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Speaker 1: because that was perfectly timed. This is the audio equivalent

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Speaker 1: of cinema verity. Yeah. I don't know what that is.

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Speaker 1: It's a style of filmmaking. Yeah, so I used it right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you did fantastic even said it right, fantastic. I love

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Speaker 1: saying things right. When people say Cinema Variety, I get mad. No,

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Speaker 1: that's the shows that are talked about on the Fames

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Speaker 1: magazine variety. Yeah right, yeah, right right, I think so. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they did that terrible list of the best horror movies

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Speaker 1: that had World war Z on its World war Z.

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Speaker 1: It's got Brad Pitt and it it's not a horror movie.

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Speaker 1: I don't know seven, although he was. I just saw

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Speaker 1: him on Growing Pains and he was pretty good. Growing

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Speaker 1: Pains been a while ago. Yeah, I think that was

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Speaker 1: his first gig. Good for him, kind of like how

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Speaker 1: what was his name? The guy the Batman that people

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Speaker 1: don't like? Michael Oh oh oh you mean Val Kilmer. No, No,

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Speaker 1: the New One Batman or the Batman Christian Bale or

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Speaker 1: no Ben Affleck Afflete. You got to Christian Bale before

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Speaker 1: you get to Ben Affleck. People don't people don't like him,

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Speaker 1: That's true. Every Batman has his his lovers and his haters. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think my brother is not a Christian Bale fan.

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Speaker 1: That's fair. But Ben Affleck was on that Voyage of

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Speaker 1: the Mimi thing that we had to watch in high

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Speaker 1: school before he was Ben Affleck, oh ship where he says,

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Speaker 1: holy chickens, that's all peanut butter, which is still my

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Speaker 1: favorite line. Wait wasn't that? Oh I remember that show,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think I ever watched All the Men

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Speaker 1: have to Huddle naked together for warmth and everybody in

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Speaker 1: your high school class laughs. Wait was that a movie?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it was like it was like a TV

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Speaker 1: series type thing we had to watch in class to

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Speaker 1: learn about the sea that Ben Affleck take you on

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Speaker 1: the waves. Well, he was like nine. He was like

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Speaker 1: the show's Wesley Crusher. Oh god, I know he was.

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Speaker 1: Just imagine Wesley Crusher. Wasn't a great pick for Wesley Crusher? No, no,

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Speaker 1: not really. He had his moments. He had his moments.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of people who had their moments, Alfred Hitchcock, he

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Speaker 1: had actually a lot of moments, very influential direct he

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Speaker 1: So when we last walked here, we talked about his

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Speaker 1: early life, his his armor of fat, his controlling mom,

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Speaker 1: his kind of dangerous bordering on torturous, love of pranks

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Speaker 1: sometimes uh women women, his pretty good sense of humor

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Speaker 1: when it didn't get mean. Um, he's a complicated man.

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Speaker 1: And one of the more important things about sort of

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Speaker 1: his life is he had this sort of desire to

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Speaker 1: create the perfect actress. He wanted to mold and so like.

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Speaker 1: He worked with a lot of great actresses, but the

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Speaker 1: most of them didn't quite fit that bill because they

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Speaker 1: were already well established and they moved on after him.

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Speaker 1: You know, most actors who don't want to work with

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Speaker 1: one guy forever. You want to do cool stuff, you don't.

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Speaker 1: You want to do a bunch of stuff unless you

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Speaker 1: marry them, like Helen Bonham Carter or like Sarah Connor. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: although she's about to be in another one of those movies.

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Speaker 1: I think she's really good. She's I mean, she's one

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Speaker 1: of the few actresses that actually topped the star. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I thought in T two she was better than

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Speaker 1: Arnold and she's she's a way more impressive action star

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Speaker 1: in that movie I've seen when she breaks down is

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Speaker 1: the best. In the scene when she is just taking

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Speaker 1: a part that mental hospital like and just destroying those men.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's the best. It's so good. I love that movie.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the opposite of that. Alfred Hitchcock's career

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Speaker 1: with Tippy Hedron. So Alfred Hitchcock first saw Tippy Hedron

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one when she appeared in a commercial

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Speaker 1: that he watched for like a weight loss supplement thing.

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Speaker 1: Hedron was a veteran model and at thirty two and mother,

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Speaker 1: but she had no real experience in the film industry.

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Speaker 1: She in fact, had no particular ambition to be an actress.

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Speaker 1: But Hitchcock saw her real and wasn't chanted by her.

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Speaker 1: He offered her a three year contract, and even though

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Speaker 1: the contract was for less money than she had been

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Speaker 1: making modeling, she considered, you know, three years of guaranteed

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Speaker 1: income a more stable move than continuing to act in commercials.

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Speaker 1: And you know, she's a mom. So she's like, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: it's the natural progression, natural progression. This seems smart. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do this. So she agreed to meet hitch and

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Speaker 1: talk about the job. During that first meeting, Hitchcock basically

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Speaker 1: just brake to her about his own life, talking about

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Speaker 1: the great restaurants he eat in that in cities around

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Speaker 1: the world. He offered her the gig, and she took it,

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Speaker 1: thinking that he'd be using her as a recurring actress

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Speaker 1: on his TV show, Alfred Hitchcock Present. I used to

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Speaker 1: watch that as a kid. Great show. So she started

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Speaker 1: to realize that Hitchcock's plans for her and were much

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Speaker 1: more involved when he sent her to Edith Head, the

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Speaker 1: famed fashion designer. And she was very talented. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: the incredible is the little lady who makes the costumes

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Speaker 1: for the characters based on she died recently, right, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I love old movies. You always

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Speaker 1: see her name in the credit. She was She's one

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Speaker 1: of those like she was like on every film, foundational

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Speaker 1: and sort of golden era Hollywood. So Edith had crafted

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Speaker 1: a whole wardrobe specifically for Tippy Hedrid, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: she made two wardrobes, one set for screen tests and

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Speaker 1: another set for her to wear out in the world.

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Speaker 1: So kind of a nice gift, you know you're having,

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Speaker 1: but also kind of controlling, because this is Hitchcock being like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not just going to pick out what you'll wear

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Speaker 1: when you're doing screen tests and whatnot. I want to

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Speaker 1: pick out what you wear when people see you. Again,

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Speaker 1: not the kind of thing you'd immediately if you're Tippy

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Speaker 1: you'd pick out as weird because like you might be like, oh, this,

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Speaker 1: this guy's gonna pay to have the greatest designer in

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Speaker 1: the world make me. You're blinded by the fashion coolness

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Speaker 1: of but something a little bit weird there. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: there's a sliver of there's a sliver of like that's strange.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like a Hitchcock movie. You know that first

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Speaker 1: thing that you get from Norman where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's something like that scene when they're eating the sandwiches,

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Speaker 1: and you get a couple of moments where you're like something, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: something's a little bit off, just like that. Now, as

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Speaker 1: soon as Tippy Hedren signed on the dotted line to

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Speaker 1: work with Alfred Hitchcock, he believed he owned her. She

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Speaker 1: was not like Ingrid Bergmann or Grace Kelly, an independent

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Speaker 1: star who might have had a deal with a specific

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Speaker 1: studio but was generally able to pick her own roles.

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Speaker 1: Hedron's contract made her Hitchcock's actress, and in hitch his mind,

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Speaker 1: this made her his property. Well. Hitchcock in the studio

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Speaker 1: worked on doing the rest of the casting and prep

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Speaker 1: work for We Become nineteen sixty three's The birds. Tippy

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Speaker 1: basically had a couple of months off with pay to

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Speaker 1: move into Los Angeles and get used to being in California.

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock ordered her to gain weight during this time. He

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Speaker 1: thought she was too skinny, so he sent her several

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Speaker 1: bushel of potatoes over to her house, with a note

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Speaker 1: reminding her that insufficient amounts. They had a lot of calories.

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Speaker 1: He sent her, don't pairing you on on Christmas, even

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Speaker 1: a telegram on Christmas. So far. Yeah, he's a nice guy.

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Speaker 1: Nice guy. Sending a bunch of potatoes over to potatoes

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Speaker 1: is a weird, a little weird, little weird. It's not

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Speaker 1: like fancy food. It's like she's probably making enough money

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Speaker 1: for potatoes then, being the basic food stuff. Well unless

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Speaker 1: he sends them overmashed. No, I think it was like

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Speaker 1: sending her potatoes. Okay, they were just raw. That is weird.

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Speaker 1: Raw potatoes is a weird gift. Now, in the new year,

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Speaker 1: Alfred decided to change Tippy's name sort of. She'd gone

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Speaker 1: by Tippy for so long that it had replaced her

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Speaker 1: birth name, Natalie, but it wasn't her original name. Hitchcock

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Speaker 1: decided that from now on, whenever her name was printed

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Speaker 1: in films. It had to be surrounded by single quotation marks. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He just wanted it to be clear that it was

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Speaker 1: a nickname. He thought that would be better for her mystique,

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Speaker 1: her career or whatever. I will give him that because

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Speaker 1: Tippy is very memorable. It is a memorable name. Um.

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Speaker 1: Kind of a weird choice, but you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: again so far, Okay, Yeah, it's not so suspicious. He's

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Speaker 1: getting really involved in this lady. He's getting involved, but

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Speaker 1: I mean he's probably just he cares. He cares. He

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Speaker 1: just cares. Right next, he ordered two members of his

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Speaker 1: crew to watch miss Hedron whenever she left the set

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Speaker 1: and make notes on what she was doing that she went,

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Speaker 1: who she saw, what she did when she wasn't working,

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Speaker 1: like an investigator kind around like yeah, like yeah. He

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Speaker 1: had two people basically follow her around everywhere and keeping

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Speaker 1: on to these guys credit. After a few days of this,

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Speaker 1: they realized it was weird and just started lying to

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock stopped following her. So they're not bastards. They did

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Speaker 1: the right thing. Keep taking the money, just don't do

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Speaker 1: the job. That's the right thing, because otherwise he would

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Speaker 1: have just hired a private investigator. You lie to the

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Speaker 1: guy smart. Hitchcock ordered other members of the cast to

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Speaker 1: avoid touching or even talking to Tippy Hedron. Rod Taylor,

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Speaker 1: her co star, and the Birds recalled she was like

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Speaker 1: a precious piece of jewelry he owned. Little by little.

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Speaker 1: No one was permitted to come close to her during

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Speaker 1: the production. Don't touch the girl after I call cut,

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Speaker 1: he said to me, repeatedly, getting a weirder. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: treating her like she's like an object. Yeah, exactly. Now.

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Speaker 1: Early on in the production, Hitchcock sent a basket of

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Speaker 1: bread to Tippy Hedron's house. It came with a note

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Speaker 1: that said eat me. Tippy later stated he was developing

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Speaker 1: this obsession, and I began to feel uncomfortable because I

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Speaker 1: had no control. I had to be very careful. He

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Speaker 1: tried to control everything, what I wore, ate and drank.

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Speaker 1: So this progresses, Yeah, it progresses. This stuff i'm familiar with,

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're about to get Oh.

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll see how much you're you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: as we get Oh. I know one thing that's pretty crazy.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it's a coming. It's a coming. Now.

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Speaker 1: According to a right up in the Express quote. Not

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Speaker 1: long after writing in a limo, Hitchcock attempted to embrace

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Speaker 1: Hedron just before the door opened. In front of a

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Speaker 1: crowded hotel, Hedron approached Almah, Hitchcock's wife, asking for help.

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Speaker 1: Her exact words were tippy, I'm so sorry you have

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Speaker 1: to go through with this, Hedron remembers. I looked at

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Speaker 1: her and said, but Alma, you could stop it, and

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Speaker 1: her eyes sort of glazed over and she walked away.

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Speaker 1: That's not great. It's like he had his wife in check. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is. And it's it's a little bit you see

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Speaker 1: shades of the Weinstein stuff here a little people see

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Speaker 1: some messed up stuff going on, but nobody's quite nobody's anything.

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Speaker 1: But also see back then it was different. It's not

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Speaker 1: like now. It's like, you know, people kind of just

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Speaker 1: didn't gossip. Yeah, and women had a lot less power

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Speaker 1: in the workplace period, you know, you know, Hollywood was

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Speaker 1: actually probably more progressive than most places in terms of

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Speaker 1: that just because like you've got a little more marketability

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Speaker 1: when you're but even then, like but also Hitchcock was

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Speaker 1: like super famous. Hitchcock was fucking Hitchcock. Yea so it's

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Speaker 1: like no one wanted to really fux Psycho had come out.

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Speaker 1: He'd invented the slasher John Like. He was big. He

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Speaker 1: was big. He was as big as a director's ever been,

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Speaker 1: literally and figuratively. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Mean there's no

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Speaker 1: Dream Warriors without Psycho. That's true. That's true. My favorite

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Speaker 1: nightmare on Elm Street movie. It's easily of the Nightmare

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Speaker 1: on Elm Street Movie, but one with the best rap.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, absolutely, And Dawkins is on the soundtrack. Dawkins

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Speaker 1: on the soundtrack. I mean, what more do you want?

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Speaker 1: I was I was in Big Bear, California recently, and

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Speaker 1: I was at like a random cafe and Big Bear,

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Speaker 1: and they were advertising that Docin had been there three

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Speaker 1: days earlier. And I had the same thought that I

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Speaker 1: think everyone has when they hear about Dockin playing somewhere,

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Speaker 1: which is, oh, they're alive. I would have assumed the

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Speaker 1: coke would have gotten them years ago. Right, Good on you,

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Speaker 1: doc and nice livers. Really impressive. Now. Most of the

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Speaker 1: cast and crew seemed to have been well aware that

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Speaker 1: something sketchy was going on between the director and his

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Speaker 1: leading lady, but no one actually took any action to

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Speaker 1: defend her or tell Hitchcock that he was being a

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Speaker 1: total creep, And so as they continued to film, Hitchcock

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Speaker 1: grew more obsessed and even bolder. Here's the dark side

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Speaker 1: of genius. He began to take unusual care in the

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Speaker 1: rehearsal and preparation of every shot, directing her down to

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Speaker 1: the movement of an eye and every turn of my

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Speaker 1: head she remembered, and he also started to take her

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Speaker 1: aside for longer story conferences about the film, which made

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Speaker 1: her increasingly uncomfortable and off the set. He was always

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Speaker 1: staring at her as she and others vividly recalled. So

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Speaker 1: by the time they got well into shooting The Birds,

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock was in full blown creepy, abusive boyfriend mode with

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Speaker 1: the woman he was not dating, who was roughly thirty

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Speaker 1: years as junior. Not that any of this would have

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Speaker 1: been cool if they were dating in the same age,

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Speaker 1: but you catch my meetings, it's weird. The fact that

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Speaker 1: this guy was her boss makes it weirder. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you've seen The Birds, you know that it's a movie

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Speaker 1: that involves a lot of birds. These animals were scrupulously

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Speaker 1: cared for crewmen and assistance were scratched impact with regularity,

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Speaker 1: like you'd expect with the movie that uses a bunch

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Speaker 1: of birds. But the Humane Society was on set and

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Speaker 1: they made sure that all the animals were well fed

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Speaker 1: and never forced to work for too long, so the

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Speaker 1: animals retreated very well on the set of The Birds.

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Speaker 1: The film's leading lady was a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: different matter. During her twenty weeks of shooting, Tippy Hedren

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Speaker 1: had only one day free during the entire production. She

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Speaker 1: was not actually needed on set the entire time, but

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock was insistent that her presence was necessary. Now, this

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Speaker 1: was not entirely a bad thing. Tippy herself even recalled quote,

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Speaker 1: he gave me the best education an actor could have.

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Speaker 1: With any other director, it would have taken fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: but he had me involved in every part of the film, script, completion,

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Speaker 1: wardrobe design, special effects work, dubbing. It was his film

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Speaker 1: from start to finish, and he wanted me to learn

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Speaker 1: how to put it together. So he's taking it seriously,

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Speaker 1: this idea of crafting the perfect artist. He's diligent about it.

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Speaker 1: It's not all creepy, which probably makes it more difficult.

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Speaker 1: From Tippy side, because she's getting this incredible inpuction. It's like,

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Speaker 1: that's the tradeoff. Yeah, that's the trade off. You get

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Speaker 1: to meet this master and work really closely. Is he

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Speaker 1: you know? The Birds is one of the great masterpieces

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Speaker 1: of horror film still to this day, it's very influential. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so having that opportunity, I can see how that

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Speaker 1: would make it easy to not push back more at

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Speaker 1: the weird stuff. You've got this incredible Nobody gets this chance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's also giving her her career. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: what he saw it as, although her she would argue,

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Speaker 1: this has never been my ambition so anyway, but he

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Speaker 1: does believe, you know, I'm giving her her career. So

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Speaker 1: the other members of the cast and crew were very

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Speaker 1: supportive of Headrihine, and even they wouldn't push back against Hitchcock,

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Speaker 1: and so she soldiered on. But as things went on,

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock began to push for more and more control over

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Speaker 1: the life of the film's leading lady. He started telling

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Speaker 1: me what I should wear on my own time, what

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Speaker 1: I should be eating, and what my friends and I

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Speaker 1: should be seeing. He suggested that such and such a

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Speaker 1: person was not good enough for my company. Or that

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Speaker 1: someone I might have a social engagement with was not

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Speaker 1: right and he became angry and hurt if I didn't

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Speaker 1: ask his permission to visit friends in the evening or

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Speaker 1: on a weekend. That's well out of bounds for a boss.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like he's like an overbearing father. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: And I think that's his attitude because he's saying like

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Speaker 1: I'm making you, I'm building You think that comes from

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Speaker 1: his mother and his relationship in a way. I think

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Speaker 1: it might. Yeah, I think this because he's If I'm

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Speaker 1: a therapist, I'd say it stems from that and control thing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a therapist with the information I have right now,

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Speaker 1: and and me not being a therapist. Also, if I'm

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Speaker 1: pretending to be a therapist, let's put on our therapy hand,

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Speaker 1: let's put on our therapy hat. I definitely draw a

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Speaker 1: line between those two things. Therapists hit us up on

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Speaker 1: Twitter if we're wrong about this and you think we're

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Speaker 1: being irresponsible. Our Twitter name is at Bastard's Pod, So therapists,

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Speaker 1: you know, hit us up, get at us, get at us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: slide into our d M s. Is that that's the

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Speaker 1: kids say? So? If he's giving me the thumbs up.

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Speaker 1: She wouldn't give me bad advice. Now, when Tippy would

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Speaker 1: express her totally understandable discomfort at some of the creepiness

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Speaker 1: that was coming out of Hitchcock, the director would respond

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Speaker 1: with anger, telling her that he had pulled her out

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Speaker 1: of the trash heap. It was one of the ways

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Speaker 1: he'd phrase it. He had made her into a star,

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Speaker 1: so she should just be happy to do what he

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Speaker 1: told her to do. He repeatedly told her that thousands

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Speaker 1: of girls could have replaced her, which you know Tippy

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Speaker 1: would have been fine with. She never really wanted this life,

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Speaker 1: but now she was under contract, so there was nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with the job she'd signed up for. Quote,

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Speaker 1: he could be two different men. He was a meticulous

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Speaker 1: and sensitive director who gave so much to each scene

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Speaker 1: and who got so much emotion into it, and he

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Speaker 1: was a man who would do anything to get a

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Speaker 1: reaction from me. Now, one of Hitchcock's favorite ways to

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Speaker 1: get a reaction from Tippy was to whisper something obscene

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Speaker 1: or pornographic to her the instant before calling action. And

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Speaker 1: this is something he did his entire career, particularly to

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Speaker 1: the women he worked with. Is he would whisper something

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Speaker 1: sexual to them right before yelling action. Um, just because

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Speaker 1: he wanted to get them off balance and stuff that.

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Speaker 1: There's another director that did that. I can't remember who

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Speaker 1: it is, but it wasn't as sketchy. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: the kind of just a way to throw the person

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Speaker 1: off and the reaction you want. I can see the

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Speaker 1: artistic justification for it. I can also see that crossing

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Speaker 1: the line into sexual harassment very easily. Oh that I

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Speaker 1: mean that is sexual. Yeah, it is sexual harassment because

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Speaker 1: it's unwanted sexual exactly. Anyway, Alfred Hitchcock considered this is

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Speaker 1: his prerogative as a director. Um like the the you know,

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Speaker 1: getting the sort of reaction of somebody. Thought it was

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Speaker 1: his duty, or at least that's how he would have

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Speaker 1: justified it. He also took to trying to force Tippy

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Speaker 1: to drink Martini's during rehearsals. Tippy, who herself was a

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Speaker 1: Hitchcock fan before this point, saw a similarity and how

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Speaker 1: the great director treated her and how he treated the

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Speaker 1: women in his films. I had always heard that his

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Speaker 1: idea was to take a woman, usually a blonde, and

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Speaker 1: break her apart, to see her shyness and reserve broken down.

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Speaker 1: But I thought this was only in the plots of

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Speaker 1: his films. Now, one of the most iconic scenes in

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Speaker 1: The Birds and in all of horror cinema, comes when

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Speaker 1: miss Hedren's character is brutally attacked on screen by a

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Speaker 1: horde of birds. Still a really commuted it's terrifying. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about that scene in a little bit

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Speaker 1: and how it was even more horrifying behind the scenes. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is probably the most well known Hitchcock story. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get very granular, but I'm gonna tell you right now,

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Speaker 1: not the most fucked up thing. He does. Know. There's

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Speaker 1: something worse. There's there's a couple of things worse. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna get into that, uh and a whole

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Speaker 1: lot more. But first, do you love products and services?

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Speaker 1: I already ask you this question, but you're gonna answer again.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I still do. Well. Before we break two

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Speaker 1: products and services, I'm going to yell something obscene and

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Speaker 1: sexual into your ear to provoke a good reaction from you. Moist.

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Speaker 1: That was a good facial reaction. Sophie had a good

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Speaker 1: one too. I don't like that word nobody likes that word.

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Speaker 1: That's why it provokes a good reaction. I'm just a

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Speaker 1: genius trying to do a good lead in to these ads. Well,

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00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 1: this will be good for our movie. Yeah, this will

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00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: be good in the movie that we're filming right now,

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00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 1: buy stuff, We're back. Sophie is telling me that she

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Speaker 1: is not bothered by the word moist, which if Dan O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: my old boss, is listening right now, he's not listening

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00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 1: anymore because he hates that word. Um. But yeah, you know,

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00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,400
Speaker 1: it's not a good word. It's not a great word.

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00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 1: Not my least favorite word. No, there's worse. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's worse words. I don't like milk, the word milk,

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Speaker 1: milk because the way you say it, you go milk,

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00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,679
Speaker 1: It bothers me. Milk. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't sound right. Milk. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Milk is uncomfortable when I say it. It's like when

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Speaker 1: people say they go milk, and it's like it creeps

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Speaker 1: me out. I don't know why they used to call

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00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 1: it white meat. Oh that's worse. Yeah, I just don't know.

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Speaker 1: Because it's very, it's very it's got a lot of

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Speaker 1: nutrition in protein. It's not if you're like a poor

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Speaker 1: peasant in the eighteen hundreds. It's like it's it's like

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Speaker 1: a meat right, it'll keep alive, like fair enough. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have no no dog in this fight. If he

400
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Speaker 1: doesn't like it. When I talk about dog fights, I

401
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 1: said I didn't have a dog in this fight. That

402
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: makes me a hero. You're given me a look. You

403
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,879
Speaker 1: give me a look, and you're you're you're you're feeding

404
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,680
Speaker 1: your dog a dog treat. She probably didn't like that

405
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 1: scene in the Wire when method Man's dog dies. That's

406
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 1: a rough scene. It's yeah, poor method Man, Poor method Man.

407
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 1: Anderson would do good in the fight. Anderson is a

408
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,959
Speaker 1: good name, good name for a dog. I got him

409
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Speaker 1: a switch blade for Christmas. You can a dog fight.

410
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: Where do you buy a switchblade, a dog size switch

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00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: blade from the dog switchblade store? Okay, yeah, yeah, dog

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00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,160
Speaker 1: switchblades dot com? Wait is it? Is it something else?

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Speaker 1: It's not really a knife? No, no, it's a knife. No, No,

414
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: you've got a dog switchblades dot Com. They'll give you. Actually,

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00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: they have a box program where you get a different

416
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: dog switchblade every month. Geez, there's like everything now, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of different that's my favorite of the

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00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 1: box subscriptions. Switchblades are so cool. They're great. They're great,

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Speaker 1: especially when they're wielded by dogs. I used to have

420
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 1: a comb one. Yeah, that's a great way to comb

421
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: your hair. Great way to comb your hair and get

422
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: mistaken as having a knife by police officers. Yeah, I'm

423
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:21,439
Speaker 1: sure to do that. Now we're talking about Hitchcock. We're

424
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 1: talking about the filming of the Birds and one of

425
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: the most iconic scenes in all of horror cinema, when

426
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 1: miss Headron's character is attacked on screen by a horde

427
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 1: of vicious birds. They tear into her flesh, nearly and

428
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: killing her. If you watch the scene today, it's remarkable

429
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: for how realistic it looks, how compellingly terrified that woman seems.

430
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: This is because everything happening in the scene was more

431
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: or less real. Didn't he like not tell her? Oh,

432
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: he did a bunch of stuff getting into Hitchcock's well

433
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: established pattern of fucking with leading ladies might be part

434
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: of why no one really stood up to for Hippy

435
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: Tippy Headron. At the time, he was certainly more obsessed

436
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: with her than he'd been with his other actresses, but

437
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: nothing about his behavior stood out until the point when

438
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: it became time to film the misclimax of this movie quote.

439
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 1: The final great attack of the Birds was to involve

440
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: the leading lady herself. She would be caught in a

441
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: room full of crows and goals and ravens that would

442
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: tear at her until she collapsed in a state of shock.

443
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: Tippy Hedrin had been told before the week shooting began that,

444
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: of course mechanical birds would be used for the scene,

445
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: since anything else would be practically impossible, But when she

446
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: arrived on the set that Monday morning in June, the

447
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 1: assistant director James Brown informed her that mechanical birds would

448
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: not be used because it had been determined that on

449
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: film they would look like artificial props. An hour later,

450
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: the new approach began. Did that guy slip up? Oh no,

451
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: oh no no. It was Hitchcock's plan for this to

452
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: be a surprise to her, for them to be like,

453
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: this is gonna be fake birds, fake birds, fake birds,

454
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: and then she shows up the day they're filming and

455
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: actually it's gonna be real birds. And the way they

456
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: filmed it is they just had two guys with like

457
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,360
Speaker 1: huge protective gloves and huge boxes filled with birds position

458
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: on one side of the camera, one on each side

459
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: of the camera facing the actress, and Tippy, you know,

460
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: was stood with her back to a wall, and the

461
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 1: whole set was in a cage. So vse pople are

462
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: all in a cage with the birds, and while Hedn

463
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 1: panics and waves her arms, live birds are thrown at her.

464
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 1: These men are just chucking live animals at her. She

465
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: stands there. I cannot imagine what that was like. So

466
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: there's obviously a step behind making someone stand in a

467
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,479
Speaker 1: shower for six days or handcuffing someone for a few hours.

468
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: Hitchcock was literally having this woman assaulted with birds. Tippy

469
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 1: later said there was no precedent for anything like this,

470
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: and no one knew what to expect. All of us

471
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: thought it could be done very quickly, and no one

472
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: hoped so more than I. We thought maybe after one

473
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: or two takes they'd have all the film they'd need.

474
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: It went on the entire day. Tippy would endure birds

475
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: being thrown at her, they'd reset the scene, and then

476
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: they'd fling more birds on her, over and over again

477
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: for hours. At the end of the first day, they

478
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: still weren't done do you want to guess how many

479
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: how many days it took him to get the shot,

480
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: like four, five, five, five full days of having birds

481
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: thrown at I mean after day three, if like you

482
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: got all the shots you need done, I think we

483
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: got enough what we got there for five days they're

484
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: doing nothing but throwing birds. Now, the close up eight

485
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: hours a day, the different angles they need to use,

486
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: less and less stage makeup as the days go on,

487
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: because her face is now covered with like real scratches

488
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: and real blood. She's got scars on her face. Still

489
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: like they're just throwing birds at her. Carrie Grant was

490
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: reportedly stunned by Hedran's courage. People on set began to whisper,

491
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: a stunned, I am stunned. I'm carry Grant, which you

492
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: are amazing. I never throwing birds and a woman, birds

493
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: and a woman. I've heard of throwing glasses at a

494
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: woman because it's the sixties. But birds, birds, Wow, I

495
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: love doing impressions of him. Yeah, he's he's he's got

496
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: that classic Hollywood voice. People on set whispered that Hitchcock

497
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: was lucky that Tippy Hedman was new to show business.

498
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: No veteran actors would have put up with anything like this.

499
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: I mean, ingrid bergman, you're not gonna throw birds at

500
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: me for five She's not minute. Hitchcock might have had

501
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: enough cachet to get a day, not five days, maybe

502
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: five minutes, maybe five minutes, not five days of you know,

503
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: she'd fling the birds back. Yeah, yeah now. Hedron later

504
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: said the week was perfectly dreadful, really the worst week

505
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: of my life. Each day, I thought, and they told me,

506
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: just one more hour, just one more shot. As it

507
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: goes on for five days. On Thursday, when it should

508
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: have been fucking done. After four days of bird assault,

509
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: Hitchcock reviewed the dailies and determined that a new angle

510
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: was necessary from the at this point, he's just having fun.

511
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: At this point, he's just having fun. This is tippy.

512
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: And so on Thursday, the wardrobe mistress took me into

513
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: my dressing room, where elastic bands were tied around my

514
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: body with nylon thread that was pulled through tiny holes

515
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: in my costume. I soon found out what this was for.

516
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: One leg of each bird was tied to each piece

517
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: of clothing, so that when I lay on the floor,

518
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: they couldn't fly away, but would bound and perch all

519
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: over me. This went on for the rest of the

520
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 1: day while they tried to get the shots that they wanted. So,

521
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: after throwing birds at her for four days, they tie

522
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: birds to her bo and leave the birds panicking and

523
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: flipping out on her. Oh my god, it just gets better.

524
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: It just gets On Friday, they did the same thing

525
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: again so they could get close up shots at different angles.

526
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: By then, the birds were clearly losing their ship as well.

527
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: One in particular flipped out an attacked Tippy Hedren's left eye,

528
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: leaving a deep tear on her lower lid and coming

529
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: pretty close to blinding her. This was finally too much

530
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: for Tippy, and in all fairness, I think a lot

531
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: of Navy seals would have broken under five straight days. Yeah,

532
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: she's a tough lady. She was given the weekend off

533
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: and set to come back on Monday and have more

534
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: birds thrown at her. Quote when she came back to

535
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: work Monday morning, she was in such a distraught state

536
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: that she could not be roused. From a brief nap

537
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: in her dressing room, she awoke to find herself under sedation.

538
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: Back home, Hitchcock was told by her position that she

539
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: could not possibly return for at least a week, and

540
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: when he replied that she was needed for every shot,

541
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: the doctor insisted that in her present condition, she would

542
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: not be able to sustain work at all, and so

543
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: production on The Birds closed down for a full week,

544
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: which is an extraordinarily expensive thing. Um. They did eventually

545
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: finish shooting the film, Obviously, Hitchcock moved on to his

546
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: next production, and Tippy Hedron got some time to relax

547
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: and recover from a full week of sustained bird assault.

548
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: During this interim period, Hitchcock proved unable to turn down

549
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: his creepiness. He sent Tippy Hedron's daughter this is the

550
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: story I know. Oh the gift that he said, it's

551
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: pretty bad. Yeah, it is a He sent Tippy Hedron's

552
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: daughter a handmade dollar. This wasn't Melanie Griffith though, or

553
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: was it? I think it was Melanie. It was me.

554
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: I think it was Melanie. He sent her a handmade

555
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: doll that was a perfect representation of her mother, dressed

556
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: as her character in The Birds and placed in a

557
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: tiny coffin. Well, and she had the doll had scars,

558
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah on its face. Yeah, that's nuts. He sends her

559
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: daughter like like handmade doll of her mom's course. But

560
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: see now he's reaching over to the daughter's life, which

561
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: is crazy, it's insane. When Melanie was asked about this

562
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: later as an adult, she said, he was a motherfucker

563
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: and you can quote me so I did. Wow. Great quote,

564
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: great quote. It's probably why Melanie did so much coke

565
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Yeah, probably didn't help. That's got a

566
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: funk up a kid, I know. And I'm sure that

567
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: just seeing her mom in that state not great, not

568
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: great for you. Shortly after sending her daughter a replica

569
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: of her corpse, Hitchcock had Tippy Hedron come in for

570
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: what he said was a deep makeup session to prepare

571
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: for their next film, Marnie. Instead of doing a makeup test,

572
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: a plaster cast was taken of Hedron's face and used

573
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: to make a perfectly lifelike mask of Tippy Hedron asleep

574
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: or dead. The mask had no use in the film.

575
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: Hitchcock kept it in his own office. Oh god, yeah,

576
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: that's creepy. Why because he wanted he wanted a perfect

577
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: mask of his leading lady looking like she's dead to

578
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: keep in his room. I mean, at this point, like,

579
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: what kind of mind is this? I mean, the guy

580
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: who makes the birds in Psycha. He sounds like a

581
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: James Bond villain. He does a little bit right. He's

582
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 1: got that kind of air to him, in that kind

583
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: of I must have a mask of you looking dead.

584
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: I must have a mask of your cops. So, while

585
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: he was mired in pre production from Marnie, Hedron enjoyed

586
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: a very well earned holiday, Alfred continued to send her

587
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: increasingly strange letters, some of which were clear examples of

588
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: sexual harassment and others of which were just weird. He

589
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: designed a special trailer just for her to use during

590
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: the filming of Marnie. He stalked it with his favorite

591
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: wines and stationary that matched the stationary he kept in

592
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: his office. Her trailer was located right next to his

593
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: private office, with a designated door that led straight to

594
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: his office, so that he could enter and accost her

595
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: whenever he wanted without anyone else seeing. When they started filming,

596
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: Tippy had to invite friends over to her trailer at

597
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: the end of the day just so Hitchcock would not

598
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: find her alone. God yeah, Also, that movie has a

599
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: very disturbing scene. Oh yeah, we'll be getting to that.

600
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: As a general rule, though, my advice for men in

601
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry. If people start inviting their friends over

602
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: so that they're not alone with you, you may have

603
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: creeped them out. I know, you may have done something

604
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: messed up. I think it's at that point it's time

605
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: to kind of move on. Came from this maniac back,

606
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: peel back, Yeah, she's about to. So the famous director

607
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: started sending letters and party invitations to Tippy Hedron's parents

608
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: as if he was trying to court her favor romantically.

609
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: As Hitcher's obsession grew deeper, he sat down with a

610
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: screenwriter and demanded that the man at a scene to

611
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: the movie Marni where Hedron's character is raped. This is

612
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: where this is bad. Yeah, the screenwriter said, quote, I

613
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: didn't want to write that scene for him, and I

614
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: told Hitchcock. So I thought it would break sympathy for

615
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: the character of the man and it's totally unmotivated. But

616
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: hitch said he wanted it in the film, and he

617
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: insisted that at that exact moment of the rape, he

618
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: wanted the camera right on her shocked face. Jesus, Yeah,

619
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 1: it's also Sean Connery. It is Sean, which I mean,

620
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: you see him in a different light. You do. It's

621
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: kind of impossible not to in a scene like that,

622
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: and it seems like like I'm not a great film buff.

623
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 1: But other people say the scene feels weird. And that

624
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: was a movie that I watched that I was kind

625
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: of like, I can't watch this again. This is this

626
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: is awful now, Hitchcock grew more possessive, if that's even possible.

627
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: As time went on, he started demanding his amerman focus

628
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: on Tippy Hedron's face and body with almost pornographic obsession.

629
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: He banned visitors and guests from the set, and eventually

630
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: Hitchcock's horny nous overwhelmed him. Here's the dark side of

631
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: g I mean, it's what happened quote. By November, he

632
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: was telling her his recurring dream. You were in the

633
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: living room of my house in Santa Cruz and there

634
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: was a rainboat a glow around you. You came right

635
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: up to me and said, hitch I love you. I'll

636
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: always love you, and we embraced. Don't you understand, he

637
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: asked in a low voice, that you're everything I've ever

638
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: dreamed about. If it weren't for Alma, Tippy Hedron's feelings

639
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: and intentions and her own private life seemed of no

640
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: concern to him. But it was a dream hit, she

641
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: told him, just a dream, and she left her dressing room.

642
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: Now in public to studio executives in the media, Hitchcock

643
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: was effusive in praise for Tippy Hedren. He called her

644
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: the ultimate actress, the finest performer he had ever worked with,

645
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: and his praise quickly slipped into outright talking about his

646
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: attraction to her. He seems to have led several film

647
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: executives to believe that he and Hedren were having an affair.

648
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: She encountered this. When she would like talk to these people,

649
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: they would like essentially make comments that led her to

650
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: believe they thought that she was having He probably did

651
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: that just so he could, like, you know, bring down suspicion. Yeah,

652
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: of him being this creep a zoid. Yeah, it's not weird.

653
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: It's not weird. That's because they're having this relationship or whatever.

654
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean. There was that rape scene. There was that

655
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: rape scene in the movie. Hitchcock was baffled by the

656
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: fact that all of this dedication on his part had

657
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: not yet been reciprocated by the object of his desire.

658
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: He hired a handwriting analyst to try and determine whether

659
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: or not Tippy Hedron had what he called a deceitful personality.

660
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: And then at the end of February, Hitchcock finally crossed

661
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: the line into physical violence. If we don't count throwing

662
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: birds at someone for five days, his physical violence uh

663
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: in a way, in a way. In older interviews like

664
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: this one I found in The Express in two thousand eight,

665
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: Hedren was open about only the verbal aspects of what

666
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: went down. Quote, he stared at me and simply said,

667
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: as if it were the most natural thing in the world,

668
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: that from this time on he expected me to make

669
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: myself sexually available and accessible to him however and whenever

670
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: he wanted. But in two thousand sixteen, Tippy Hedron finally

671
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: alleged that after making these demands, Hitchcock straight up assaulted her.

672
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: Quote I've never gone into detail on this, and I

673
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: never will. I'll simply say that he suddenly grabbed me

674
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: and put his hands on me. It was sexual, it

675
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: was perverse, and it was ugly, and I couldn't have

676
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: been more shocked and repulsed. The harder I fought him,

677
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: the more aggressive he became. Then he started adding threats

678
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: as if he could do anything to me that was

679
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: worse than what he was trying to do at the moment. Boy, Yeah,

680
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: this is hard to hear. It's rough, it's rough. It's

681
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: rough stuff. It's rough stuff. I didn't know he physically

682
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: did it yet. This didn't come out until two thousand

683
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: and sixty now, so we're going to get into a

684
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: little bit more about that, about what Hedren says in

685
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: two thousands seventeen, you know, after Weinstein's assaults become public

686
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: and sort of the end of this unfortunate tale. But first,

687
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's not a weird name. Zvia the Stevia

688
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: based diet soda beverage I'm currently sipping, and in fact

689
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: Zva is the only Stevia based diet soda beverage currently

690
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: on this table. That's a good that's a good ad plug.

691
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: Here's some products that paid up us. We're back. We're

692
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: talking about Alfred Hitchcock's assault of Tippy Hedron. Kind of

693
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: the culmination of just so much creepy behavior. Uh. In

694
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: two thousands seventeen, after news of Harvey Weinstein's creepiness became

695
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: public knowledge, Tippy Hedron tweeted this I'm watching all the

696
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: cover John Weinstein. This is nothing new, nor is it

697
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: limited to the entertainment industry. I dealt with sexual harassment

698
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: all the time during my modeling and film career. Hitchcock

699
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: wasn't the first. However, I'm not going to take it anymore.

700
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: So I simply walked away and didn't look back. Hitch

701
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: said he would ruin my career, and I told him

702
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: to do what he had to do. It has taken

703
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: fifty years, but it is about time that women started

704
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: standing up for themselves as they appeared to be doing

705
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: in the Weinstein case. Good for them. Now. The bad

706
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: news is that Hitchcock did ruin her career. Um, he

707
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: had a run contract for a couple more years, and

708
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: so she wasn't able to do anything without him for

709
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: the rest of that time, and he blackballed her in

710
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: the industry. She never had the kind of career that

711
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: she could have. Well, he whined stainder, Yeah, he wind Stainder,

712
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: He wind Steiner before Weinstein was I'm guessing he was

713
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: like an elementary school at this point, right. Well, Hitchcock

714
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: created the term Weinstein, Yeah he did. He in anticipation

715
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: of the other creepy man who would take on his baton. However,

716
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: he did not ruin Tippy Headren's life. She went on

717
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: to run a big cat sanctuary, which might have been

718
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: tied to all the bird related trauma and led into

719
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: her being in a movie wherein she and her family

720
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,959
Speaker 1: lived with a number of dangerous, gigantic cats for years

721
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: and we're horribly wounded, which might be tied a little bit.

722
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: That's what I was wondering, Like there's such a connection there.

723
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: It may just be that because she had had this

724
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: experience on birds, she was less likely to realize things

725
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: had crossed the line in the production of that true,

726
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: because I mean she subjected her family to that, Yeah, exactly,

727
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what happens with trauma, Like you

728
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: get fucked up and then you push it on people

729
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: around you if you're not careful. I heard about that

730
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: with child molesters, that they were molested. So then at

731
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: the side goal continues. Well, and I can say having

732
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: gone through, uh, some of my own deals with PTSD

733
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: and having had a part like we both pushed ship

734
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: on each other and like traumatized each other further. It's

735
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: a thing like you almost do it unconsciously. Yeah, because

736
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: it resets your ideas of like what's reasonable once you've

737
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: gone through something crazy and more likely to like I'm

738
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: not gonna call it Tippy Hedron a bad person for

739
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: putting a family through this. Having gone through what she said,

740
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: I can see how you wasn't it her and her

741
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: husband because he was a filmmaker. Yeah, they've been working

742
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: with these animals for a while. Yeah. Anyway, well we

743
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: we benefited because it's a great movie. A great movie.

744
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: What was the name of that, but exactly it was

745
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: just released I think recently. Go watch Big Cats Funk

746
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: with Tippy Hedron's family, Get ready, because that movie will

747
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: fuck you up. Yeah, it's very disturbing. All of the

748
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: times you see people attacked by animals on it are real.

749
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: They're real. They are real, graphical not depictions, actual attacks

750
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: of big cats on humans. It's crazy. It's just as

751
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: one of those things that reminds you that like if

752
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: your house cat, I have a house I love cats.

753
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: If your house cat were a hundred and eighty pounds,

754
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: it would regularly injure you right without wanting to cause

755
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: you pain. Just that's what cats do. That's their normal,

756
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: Like routine. Yeah, they're just cats. I'm gonna go out

757
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: and just kill a goat. Yeah, fun funk with some

758
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: ship for us that's buying a sandwich. Yeah, let's get

759
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. So Tippy headron after Hitchcock actually assaulter,

760
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: lays hands on her, stands up for herself, and she

761
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: pushes back, and Hitchcock doesn't push anymore at her, So

762
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: that stays true to his character, but he also goes

763
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: completely in the other direction. Where he'd once been talking

764
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: about her as like the next Grace Kelly, this great

765
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: star who's going to be winning awards and stuff, he

766
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: starts refusing to even speak her name, calling her only

767
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: that girl. He directs her through his assistance, and he

768
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: goes beyond ignoring his leading lady, and he works to

769
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: actively sabotage the movie Marnie itself, making sure the final

770
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: edited version was as bad a movie as he was

771
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: capable of making. It's not that good. It's not that

772
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: good because he sucked it up right and on purpose. Yeah,

773
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: he burned his own movie to the ground in order

774
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: to hurt Tippy Hedrin for not responding. You know, Cubrick

775
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: kind of has the same tactics. Oh yeah, oh yeah,

776
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: with with with the Shining, you know, he put Shelley

777
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: Devolve through some ship, which is similar. And it's one

778
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: of those things there's always if you've got a great

779
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: director whose job in that case is to get uh,

780
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: traumatic acting out, to get someone to act like they've

781
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: been traumatized, there's always a degree like even like George

782
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: Miller in the Making of a Mad Max Fury wrote,

783
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: there's that talk about how like great movie, great movie,

784
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: brilliant movie. There's that talk about how what's his name Batman,

785
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: Christian Bale, not Christian Bale, fucking Tom Hardy, Tom Hardy,

786
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: the other bat Bane. Yeah, yeah, he's Bane. Yeah. Tom

787
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: Hardy is like hanging beneath this truck and like his

788
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: kid is like watching as they do this stunt where

789
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: he's like underneath the truck held up by wires, and

790
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: his kid asks George Miller, like, what happens if the

791
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: wires break? And Bruler's like, oh, they're really strong wires,

792
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: they won't break. And it's like, yeah, but what happens

793
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: if it breaks? And he's like, well, I guess your

794
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: dad's gonna go into the wheels. He's like, your dad's son.

795
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: Your dad was bang, he'll be fine. He'll probably be fine. Yeah,

796
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: he survived that monstrosity. But there's always a degree. If

797
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: you're a great director, you're trying to get a great

798
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: performance to specifically an actor to act traumatized. There's a

799
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: degree of emotional funory. There always be some, even great

800
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: directors who aren't necessarily shitty people, when you get caught

801
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: up in aren't like that, you'll do some things that

802
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: are on the line. You know, I think Hedgecock crosses

803
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: that line. Yeah, well you know what it is too.

804
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: It's like in Cubrick's state, you know, he didn't have

805
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: actors as good as Nicholson. Yeah, so to to measure up,

806
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: he had to funk with him. He had to funk

807
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: with him. And maybe that one. I don't know enough

808
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: about that to say if he crossed a line or not.

809
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: It's always a risk he didare making there's like a

810
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: making of Shining if you watch and you can see

811
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: her kind of breaking down, and it's the same thing

812
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: and like Apocalypse Now where you see uh marchin where

813
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: he's like Injuris himself badly while drunk on set in

814
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: that opening scene, like cuts himself and his bleeding everywhere,

815
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 1: and kubers like, not keep going, you mean just keep rolling?

816
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, Coppola, Yeah, that's why I'm here. I'm bad. Yeah,

817
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: I say I'm bad at this. I'm bad at all

818
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: this except for reading about creepy things people do. Um

819
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: so Hitchcock enough to deal with. Hitchcock's biographer Spoto, calls

820
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: Tippy Hedren Hitchcock's last great obsession and arguably his downfall.

821
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: Spoto argues that after Marny, he never made another great movie,

822
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: and then he may never even made another good movie,

823
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: that this kind of broke him. Yeah, Frenzy is pretty

824
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: interesting for the subject matter. But yeah, you're right. I

825
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: mean he's definitely like going down. Yeah, and like the

826
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: fact that he's sabotaged Marny is kind of like, that's

827
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: sort of where this guy's mind breaks, you know. Yeah,

828
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: he's kind of losing it. He kind of loses it

829
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: after that. While he would live on until nineteen eighty,

830
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 1: his life was increasingly devoid of meaningful work, filled with food,

831
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: ill health, too much alcohol, and an increasingly cold and

832
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: perpetually sexless relationship. But this is also when I saw

833
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: him on many interviews, and he was really funny. Yeah,

834
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: I mean he's he's got that sort of charm. Yeum,

835
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: I want to say he has a has a really

836
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: good Dick Cabin interview. Yeah, around that time. But he's

837
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: not producing his great films anymore. He's become he's already

838
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: a legend. Yeah, but he's not necessarily doing what he

839
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: does best. Yeah, yeah, which seems to he's one of

840
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: those people who doesn't last a lot longer after they

841
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: stopped putting out good work. Yeah. It's really a shame,

842
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: it is. And he dies a year after receiving the

843
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: Oscar for Lifetime Achievement in nineteen eighty, which is the

844
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: only Oscar he received, only Oscar he received in which

845
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: he was really anxious about taking because he number one

846
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: knew it meant that his career was over. And number two,

847
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: I didn't like how he looked on screen because he

848
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: was in very ill health at that point. So it

849
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: was he was not a happy man at the end. Um.

850
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: You can you can see it in the films. They

851
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: get really disgusting and disturbing. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of

852
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: his mind unraveling, and we are all left here to

853
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: unravel his legacy and try to figure out how should

854
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: we think about Alfred Hitchcock knowing all this stuff, you know,

855
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: because it is clear with his work that art and

856
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: abuse were inextricably tied together. He was able to make

857
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: the great films he was able to make because he

858
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: was the kind of man who would poison a cameraman

859
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: and let him shoot himself for hours, or throw birds

860
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: at a woman for five days. The shipping thing is

861
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 1: a little more fun than the birds. It's a little

862
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: they're both over a line, I know, but shiitting I

863
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: can kind of be like, all right, you're still like

864
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: you right, But it's like the birds thing, It's like,

865
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,959
Speaker 1: all right, what are you doing? This is crazy? Yeah,

866
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: the birds thing. And like you can see, like when

867
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: he locks that woman in a telephone box and fills

868
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: it with smoke. That's over a line to me too,

869
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: that is too, that's pretty. This is a guy who

870
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: most people would have put lines up earlier than hit

871
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: did um And because he didn't have those lines, we

872
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: got some great movies. But because he didn't have those lines,

873
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: Melanie Hedren got a doll of her mom's corpse sent

874
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: to her like it carried over into other people's lives. Yeah,

875
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: and traumatized them till this day, probably to this day,

876
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: and that's complicated. Yeah. I want to say an unknown

877
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: movie of his that's wonderful is Shadow of a Doubt.

878
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: I don't heard that one with Joseph Cotton. Excellent movie.

879
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: It's really good, and it's before his kind of like

880
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: Swan period. I mean, I went into this podcast, I've

881
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: definitely seen more Hitchcock than I Stave. Steven Seagal went, oh, yeah,

882
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: I stand because I only think i'd seen like under

883
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: Siege and on Deadly Ground of his. I think I've

884
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: seen the Vertigo, north By Northwest Psycho and the Birds obvious. Yeah, yeah, um,

885
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: but that's pretty much it from my Hitchcock Now. Yeah,

886
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: there's some kind of the big hitters. There's some deep

887
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: cuts like Suspicion is great and that's um Carrie Grant, Yeah,

888
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: and so is uh what's it called Rebecca I already

889
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: mentioned is great. There's also Foreign Correspondent is really good.

890
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: He worked with William Cameron Menzies, excellent cinematographer. So where

891
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: are you now? As as a huge Hitchcock fan, like obvious,

892
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: this is not a guy. It's not like Weinstein where

893
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: he was an influential person in the industry. But you

894
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: can pretty much cut mention of him out and not

895
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: affect the history of cinema. Yeah, because he was just

896
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: a producer, system producer. He wasn't like, although I've seen

897
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: a movie he directed, Oh, I didn't know he directed anything.

898
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: It was it was like Mercy Thoma's first film, Oh

899
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: weird Hitchcock. You cannot cut out of film Cannon without

900
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: losing something. He's too influential. He's too influential, and I

901
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 1: could still watch Rebecca and and love it just as much.

902
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: Does it help that he's a director who made creepy

903
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: movies rather than like, if if this was like I

904
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 1: feel like if Jimmy Stewart had been doing this ship,

905
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to watch It's a Wonderful Life. Yeah,

906
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: it's different because you're not seeing him yeah, on on film,

907
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: So that makes it easy. That makes it easier. However,

908
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: it does tarnish what you're about to say is does

909
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: this tarnish my appreciation of his films a little bit? Yeah, Like,

910
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could watch The Birds the

911
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: same way right, or even Marnie, which I haven't watched

912
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: from the first time I watched it, so there's a

913
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: little bit of that. But it's also like, like, right

914
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,720
Speaker 1: now I want to revisit Foreign Correspondent just because it's

915
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: a brilliant film. Yeah, it's like espionage and like really

916
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: interesting for its time. One thing I do want to

917
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: bring up that I'm not enough of the film historian

918
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: to say concretely, but it occurred to me as I'm

919
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: researching this. You know, you've got Alfred Hitchcock inventing the

920
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: slasher genre and also a guy who has some serious

921
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: issues with women, um, which are very much on display.

922
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: I feel like horror as a genre has for a

923
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: long time had some issues with women. Um yeah. Yeah,

924
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: And I wonder how much of that is Hitchcock's DNA

925
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: in the genre. Um. He definitely is kind of the pioneer,

926
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: yeah of that, because Psycho is what a lot of

927
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: people would agree is the first slasher movie. Yeah, yeah,

928
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, and inspired so much. It was the first

929
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: time too that that horror was was was like a masterpiece.

930
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't just schlocky. It wasn't a guy in a

931
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: rubber suit banging around. I mean, at the time horror

932
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: was kind of goofy and cheesy, like Vincent Price. Yeah,

933
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: you know, like darkness of were Schools and Skeleton. Yeah,

934
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: it was corny. He made it kind of artistic. And

935
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 1: so I wonder how much of his issues with women

936
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: and his because like we talked about the Shining later,

937
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: and I have to think Kubert's got to be a

938
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: guy who's influenced by Hitchcock of course, and and and

939
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: and Bogdanovitch, perhaps even down to the way he treats

940
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: his actress to get a response. I'm like, well, this

941
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: would not have been a hidden story at the time. Well,

942
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: Hitchcock got a great performance out of Hedren and the Birds,

943
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: and he did it by fucking with her. Maybe that's

944
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: what I gotta do with Shelley deval right, right, I

945
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: gotta push her. Yeah, yeah, I mean I can see

946
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: them justifying it in that sense. Yeah, it doesn't make

947
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: it okay. And it's another example of sort of how

948
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: this kind of thing gets passed down, because we see

949
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: Hedren sort of maybe passing it down with her family

950
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: getting them into this production that's really a little too much.

951
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: But we also see like Hitchcock passing down this sort

952
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: of idea that like, sometimes you have to push your actresses.

953
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: So like, what did he say, Like you have to

954
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 1: torture the torture the woman. Yeah, the trouble of today

955
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: is we don't torture women in off. Yeah, that was

956
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: a very odd quote because I've i mean, I've never

957
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: heard heard it put that way. Yeah, and it makes

958
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: no sense. Yeah, it does unless you start thinking about like, okay,

959
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: well you've got the tippy header and the birds, you

960
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: get Chilly Davall in the shining. Sometimes that's what directors do.

961
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: It comes from a place though, of I think fear

962
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: of women, you know, and and and their strength. Yeah,

963
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: where it's like you're sort of insecure and about yourself

964
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: and insecure about the quality I think of the actresses

965
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: that you're getting too, that you have. Because he's not

966
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: doing that, like Hitchcock is not doing that to carry Grant. Now,

967
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, like he would never

968
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: do that to carry He would carry Grant would just

969
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: storm off the set. Yeah, Carry Grant would not take that.

970
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: Nobody's throwing birds at Carry Grant for five days. No.

971
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Carry Grant is interesting because he loved Hitchcock. Yeah, you know,

972
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: and and he was also so difficult to get on

973
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: board for some movies. Billy Wilder famously tried to work

974
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: with him many times, but for some reason, like carry

975
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: was like no, But with Hitchcock he's like, yes, I'll

976
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: do it. In a lot to people, like even a

977
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: lot of the women who worked with Hitchcock really because

978
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: you know you made great movies with him. Even Hedren

979
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: has this kind of like complexity where she's like, this

980
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: guy is someone I really don't like really fun, but

981
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: also like you know, you can't deny what he made. Yeah,

982
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: they're tough. I can't remember. There's another story where where

983
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: he got some actress I forget who an apartment and

984
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: then it was like within viewing of his apartment so

985
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: that he could watch her. That's did you come across that? No?

986
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: I didn't, but that sounds just like Hitchcock. I think

987
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: it was right down to it almost being part of

988
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: what was the movie where Jimmy Stewart's I think that's

989
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: kind of where that came from. Yeah, So again, this

990
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: is a guy who everything he does in a movie

991
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: is basically something he does in real life. I know

992
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: he lives his life the way he directs his films.

993
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 1: He directs fucked up films. He's he's like a performance artist.

994
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well I think that's where we're gonna land

995
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: for the day. I bet you got any plug as

996
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: to plug before rolling out of here last episode. I

997
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: plug my podcast, I'll plug my Twitter. It's at abit

998
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: g awesome. Uh. You can find me on Twitter at

999
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: I right, okay. You can find this podcast on Twitter,

1000
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: at Instagram and at Bastards Pod. You can find us

1001
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: on the internett behind the Bastards dot com. Um, you

1002
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 1: can go to te Public. You can buy a T shirt,

1003
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: you can buy a cup. Uh, you can buy if

1004
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: you're if you're in the in a in a military

1005
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: that uses T fifty four tanks, we have some some

1006
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: silk screens for those that you can put on over

1007
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: your tank. So you're currently serving in the Afghan military

1008
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: and you're a fan of the show, you can get

1009
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: some some Bastards branded content there. T Public really has

1010
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: a great variety of things, So check all that out.

1011
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: I'm Robert Evans and until next week, I love about you.

1012
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: Bam Oh that was fun. Hitchcock in the Hitchcan. I'm

1013
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: I have to say I'm pretty