Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.
Speaker 1: It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid
Speaker 1: it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing
Speaker 1: on a stage, telling comedy words. Come and see me,
Speaker 1: buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and
Speaker 1: see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.
Speaker 1: I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but
Speaker 1: you should at least know what's happening, and it is.
Speaker 1: The tour kicks off late September and goes through the
Speaker 1: end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at
Speaker 1: the Craig Ferguson Show dot Com slash tour. They are
Speaker 1: available at the Craig Ferguson show dot Com slash tour
Speaker 1: or at your local outlet in your region. My name
Speaker 1: is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.
Speaker 1: I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Speaker 1: I love my guest today. She is part of the
Speaker 1: ensemble that made for My Money maybe the greatest television
Speaker 1: program ever on American television, Kirby Your Enthusiasm. Susie essimond
Speaker 1: is here, go fuck yourself. Do you ever play golf?
Speaker 2: No, I've gone to the driving range, which is fine,
Speaker 2: But to sit out there for five fucking hours, I
Speaker 2: hear you.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what's interesting about that.
Speaker 1: I only like to play golf on my own, which
Speaker 1: apparently is not the way you're meant to do it.
Speaker 2: I think that's the exact way you should do it,
Speaker 2: because your competition should be yourself, right.
Speaker 1: And also, you fuck up, you don't get some guy
Speaker 1: going he hey yeah, and then and like you can
Speaker 1: bet and then win every time. You always win the
Speaker 1: bat and if you lose, who care you lose? It
Speaker 1: doesn't mire you bok And it's like going fishing. You go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got it, I threw it back. It's fine. You
Speaker 1: gotta have three holes in one. It was awesome.
Speaker 3: Isn't it a wonderful thing to be able to lie
Speaker 3: to yourself.
Speaker 1: I think it's an essential component of mental health to
Speaker 1: be able to tell yourself bullshit about yourself and then
Speaker 1: believe it. Like I I look in the mirror and
Speaker 1: I go, you are fucking awesome.
Speaker 3: Well you are, though, Look how handsome you are?
Speaker 1: Well you know you see that now now what you're
Speaker 1: doing there is you're participating in my delusion, and you're
Speaker 1: delusion that I want. I want to say this and
Speaker 1: it is a word of congratulations because you are an
Speaker 1: essential component, which for me is one of the few
Speaker 1: perfect television shows ever made, ever made. Yeah, it's amazing
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: It's amazing to have been a part of it all
Speaker 2: these times. And who you know, It's like, we never
Speaker 2: knew this was what it was going to be. It
Speaker 2: was just such a nothing thing when we started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's I don.
Speaker 3: Mean nothing thing.
Speaker 2: I mean it was just a small, little low but
Speaker 2: we had no budget, We had nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember when it started and I was like,
Speaker 1: Larry David was doing this thing and then and I
Speaker 1: wasn't really aware of I knew SEIN failed, of course,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't really aware of Larry as a kind.
Speaker 2: Of well that was the whole point of doing it, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course.
Speaker 1: But then when I was like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is this guy's horrible, but I can't stop watching it.
Speaker 1: And then I think as the season goes on, either
Speaker 1: I got more horrible or Larry got much nicer. But
Speaker 1: either Waiting gets nicer.
Speaker 3: You just got used to it.
Speaker 1: I got used to it. I think that's what it was.
Speaker 2: But you know the truth of the matter, he hates
Speaker 2: when I say this, but he's such a good actor.
Speaker 2: He's such a good comedic actor. It was all about acting.
Speaker 3: But he is.
Speaker 2: He's full of course he is, because he's not really
Speaker 2: like that in real life. No, he's the least confrontational
Speaker 2: person I know in real life.
Speaker 1: Well, I think also when I remember Larry was on
Speaker 1: the Late Night Show when I was doing it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he came on that and he was great, but I
Speaker 1: could see he was kind of like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: is going on here? Who is this guy?
Speaker 3: Well he started as a stand up Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: That's right now in front with well you you did
Speaker 1: you work in like do club dates with? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: was that Jerry was working back then as well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so where were you guys working?
Speaker 2: Catchising Star, you know, the improv, the comic strip.
Speaker 1: I was going to say that, you know, do you
Speaker 1: remember Lucien Hold at the comic strip?
Speaker 3: Of course I remember Lucian.
Speaker 1: Lucian Hold was a guy giving me my first job
Speaker 1: ever when I came off the boat. Basically really, yeah.
Speaker 3: Lucian was a very strange yet wonderful man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't get he was a very strange guy,
Speaker 1: was he really? He brooked the acts for the comic the.
Speaker 2: Comic strip, and he actually was the first one to
Speaker 2: pass me. You know, you had to audition and pass
Speaker 2: in those days, and he was the first one to
Speaker 2: pass me.
Speaker 3: And he gave me very in the beginning.
Speaker 2: He gave me very protected spots, like he put me
Speaker 2: on first, like a nine o'clock spot, you know, and
Speaker 2: he wouldn't give me the two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3: So he was good to me.
Speaker 1: Does that exist now, that kind of I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of kids now when they're
Speaker 1: starting out, because I talked to young comedians sometimes on this.
Speaker 3: Podcast bring audiences they have to bring.
Speaker 1: We didn't have to bring their tickety talk followers And
Speaker 1: do you do all of that?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't understand up anymore. But I haven't been
Speaker 2: in the clubs for years. You should, Well, maybe I
Speaker 2: should get.
Speaker 1: Out, do it, have a little fun.
Speaker 2: I'd have to write a whole new work.
Speaker 3: Maybe I will. I used to say no.
Speaker 2: Crowd work was always my default, and that kind of
Speaker 2: crowd work made me lazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does make it lazy because I was.
Speaker 3: Really good at it, so I didn't have to, you know,
Speaker 3: But now it.
Speaker 1: Can be a thing. You can just go out do
Speaker 1: some crowd work and that's all you do.
Speaker 2: Maybe I will craigration, Maybe I could introduce you, I
Speaker 2: could like open for you.
Speaker 1: And I had said coming up. Now she hasn't done
Speaker 1: it for a while, she has no material, so keep
Speaker 1: your expectations.
Speaker 2: All my material, all my old material, is so politically incorrect.
Speaker 2: Doesn't do it anyway. Fuck that shit. I don't buy
Speaker 2: into that bullshit. Well, I don't think you like it.
Speaker 2: I don't think it really. I don't think it's as
Speaker 2: quite as on fire as people say it is. Yeah, probably,
Speaker 2: you know the people like the only time I see
Speaker 2: people complaining about wokeness is when they're getting paid.
Speaker 1: Five million bucks for a Netflix pacialism. Then you go,
Speaker 1: who the fuck is shutting you down?
Speaker 3: Nobody you know?
Speaker 2: On Curb, I mean, Curb was particularly vitally incorrect.
Speaker 1: When Larry steals the shoes from the Holocaust Museum.
Speaker 2: Do you know that we've never there was only one
Speaker 2: episode in all one hundred and twenty episodes that we
Speaker 2: did that we ever got major blowback from anything. He
Speaker 2: never got blowback on it was it. It was the
Speaker 2: one where I think it was season seven, where he's
Speaker 2: taking some medication which is making him urinate like crazy,
Speaker 2: and he peas into a into a toilet and the
Speaker 2: urine is so forceful that it splashes up onto a
Speaker 2: picture of Jesus and it looks like a tear was
Speaker 2: coming out of Jesus's eye, and the people whose house
Speaker 2: it was swear it was a sign. So he got
Speaker 2: people were saying he was urinating on Jesus. He was
Speaker 2: not urinating Jesus. Was a splash. But that's the only
Speaker 2: time I ever went, and I was doing press for
Speaker 2: the show at that time, that I ever had to
Speaker 2: defend the show in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 3: Was that episode. Never never anything else.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the show maybe got Grandfather then a
Speaker 1: little bit as well, because you guys were being horrendous
Speaker 1: before the kind of yeah, that's true. The great reset,
Speaker 1: which I don't know when that happened, really, I guess
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened that suddenly there was a
Speaker 1: whole new way of thinking and you had to you know,
Speaker 1: although like I say, I don't know how real it
Speaker 1: really is.
Speaker 2: You know, I think you're right. I mean I think
Speaker 2: it was real for like, you know, a minute. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then I think that it's there's a backlash against it.
Speaker 1: Now. Well, I think people get a little tired of it.
Speaker 1: You know, you get a little tired of you can't
Speaker 1: laugh at that. This is America, you know. Well, you
Speaker 1: remember back in the day, it was like there was
Speaker 1: Dice Clay or Sam Kennison and Don Rickles.
Speaker 3: My god, do you ever watch Don on YouTube?
Speaker 1: He was always on my own late night show. I
Speaker 1: loved Don.
Speaker 3: God, how funny was it?
Speaker 1: He was amazing. Yeah, he came to a party in
Speaker 1: my house and like one of the greatest moments. I
Speaker 1: had this party at Christmas party in La and I
Speaker 1: invited down and Barbara Wrickles to come the thing, and
Speaker 1: he said, yeah, I'll come. He came to my house
Speaker 1: in the Hollywood Hills. He gets out of the cart
Speaker 1: and he comes over and he gives me a dollar bill.
Speaker 1: He says, here's a dollar Get a better fucking house.
Speaker 1: What are you saying that I had to drive up
Speaker 1: all that, We have to drive up all these winningtels.
Speaker 1: Get a house. Get a house on the flood. This
Speaker 1: is terrible. It's a terrible house. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: but he I loved him him, and uh I was
Speaker 1: getting quite close with him and Barbara for years. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love did you did you know?
Speaker 3: Did not know him?
Speaker 2: But when I was a kid, you know, we didn't
Speaker 2: have DVR or v vhs. Even so when he was
Speaker 2: on the Tonight Show, I used to, you know, set
Speaker 2: the alarm to wake up so that my brother and
Speaker 2: I could watch him because that was my favorite watching
Speaker 2: him on the night.
Speaker 3: So it was huge influence onth.
Speaker 1: He and he was an interesting guy because he was like,
Speaker 1: he was so nice. He was like quite shy and
Speaker 1: very friendly and and quite an emotional man.
Speaker 3: He was sentimental.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he was very sentimental. And he'd be like, no,
Speaker 1: I kid, but I love you. I love you. I
Speaker 1: mean we kid because we love Yeah, that's right. I
Speaker 1: think that's going to get out of jail card for
Speaker 1: telling me I've got a ship. You know what.
Speaker 2: There's something about that I I kind of refused to
Speaker 2: do because it's too apologetic, right.
Speaker 1: Right, you know. Yeah, And also I think if you're
Speaker 1: busting someone's balls and they don't know that you're just
Speaker 1: busting their balls, then you're not really doing it, bro
Speaker 1: because if you bust someone's balls, like if you were
Speaker 1: like having fun with someone, they should be able to
Speaker 1: tell that's what you're doing. Like when he come in
Speaker 1: and said, here's a dollar, get a better house, obviously,
Speaker 1: because if he.
Speaker 3: Gave you a million a better house.
Speaker 1: Okay, if he gave me a million dollars, you can
Speaker 1: see what he fucking likes. At that point. I don't
Speaker 1: care if he's being mean to me, But I think
Speaker 1: that that kind of messing around humor that comes from
Speaker 1: a different time. Yes, you know, I think I think
Speaker 1: now it's a little more guarded than that.
Speaker 3: Absolutely more guarded.
Speaker 2: But the thing about Rickles that was so impressive was
Speaker 2: the speed that his brain work, you know, and I
Speaker 2: know other it's just it was just so fascile and
Speaker 2: so quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how he would come up with who was so
Speaker 1: Rickles was one? Who were the other comedians that kind
Speaker 1: of drew you into that world prior is amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember seeing when when I I
Speaker 2: first saw that first concert movie of his, was that
Speaker 2: Sunset Strip, or before was before that Sunset Strip was
Speaker 2: the Red Outfit? But this was a black silk shirt.
Speaker 2: It was a concert movie and I had never seen him,
Speaker 2: you know, and it was Whoa and theater. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was in movie theaters and it was the most brilliant
Speaker 2: stand up. I had no interest in being a stand up.
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about stand up comedy and I
Speaker 2: had never been in a club. And then I went
Speaker 2: out to LA to visit my cousin and he took
Speaker 2: me to the comedy store because he had just directed
Speaker 2: a movie. Prior was then called Some kind of Hero.
Speaker 2: It's a serious part. And he took me to see
Speaker 2: Prior and Pryor was It was my first time in
Speaker 2: a comedy club, was seeing Richard Pryor, so you know,
Speaker 2: that's crazy. Yeah, And he was working on material for
Speaker 2: sunset strip for his next thing. And it was revelatory
Speaker 2: to me because not everything was working, you know, And
Speaker 2: I didn't know that's how you did it. I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, when I was growing up, I saw you know,
Speaker 2: Alan King on Ed Sullivan and he got up there
Speaker 2: and he told his jokes. I thought, that's what it was.
Speaker 2: And then I saw Prior, who was like a god.
Speaker 2: Some stuff wasn't working. He was work shopping and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I get it.
Speaker 1: That's see that. That's why I feel like the younger
Speaker 1: comics and they're not getting a chance to fail because
Speaker 1: everything is up there too fast. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And and when we were I mean, you know, coming up,
Speaker 2: there was no phones and there was no tweeting and
Speaker 2: none of that or xing whatever the fuck it's called
Speaker 2: twist twisting because none of that ship It felt private. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So you push the envelope until you felt that little
Speaker 2: thing going up your spine just like I've gone.
Speaker 1: Too far, gone too far. But then you pull. That's
Speaker 1: how I was part of the fun as well. It's
Speaker 1: like you fight for the edges and then you can
Speaker 1: get back from it. But but the thing is, I
Speaker 1: think now with the with recording, I've noticed I say
Speaker 1: to audiences, because I still do standard I love doing
Speaker 1: standing up, and I will say I don't say personally,
Speaker 1: but you know, to the audience coming in, they're told,
Speaker 1: just you keep your phone, like if you again emergency,
Speaker 1: someone calls you, that's fine, but just don't don't record
Speaker 1: anything and don't do it. And they I'd say, like
Speaker 1: nine percent of the time people got it, and they don't.
Speaker 3: They don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we went to see Chris Rock upstates that we
Speaker 2: were upstate and he was in concerts and we went
Speaker 2: to see it, and you.
Speaker 3: Had to give your phone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a bunch of guys do that. I think Dave
Speaker 1: Chappelle does that. I think Bill does it as well.
Speaker 1: That they just make sure they put it in a
Speaker 1: bag or bag.
Speaker 3: Or something and then you collect it. I don't like that.
Speaker 1: It seems like a law. And also I like to
Speaker 1: think this is probably wishful thinking because nowadays, I think
Speaker 1: most of the people to come and see me are
Speaker 1: too old for this. But I like to think some
Speaker 1: people come and see me, I've got little kids at
Speaker 1: home and a babysitter, so they want to have Yeah,
Speaker 1: But I think really mostly that's not happening.
Speaker 3: I think most of them are older than having little kids.
Speaker 1: I know, that's what I'm saying. It's like they get
Speaker 1: call from their kid. It's because their kid is having
Speaker 1: a kid.
Speaker 2: It's interesting about that is I think that comedy is
Speaker 2: one of the things that appeals to It's not a
Speaker 2: generational thing.
Speaker 1: No, I think styles of comedy are I mean, there
Speaker 1: are styles of comedy that are going around now with
Speaker 1: younger communities. I kind of try and stay plugged in
Speaker 1: to what's coming up. And there's some styles of it.
Speaker 1: I go, I don't really go for that, and I
Speaker 1: never did. I suppose to go for parody songs and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so he's hated following that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, parody songs or a lot of impressions, Like some
Speaker 1: impressions is fun, but you can't you know, it's like
Speaker 1: eating all candies.
Speaker 2: Or the ones that like take the mic into their
Speaker 2: mouth doing the impressions.
Speaker 3: I hate that ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, if I anecdotally, who stops me
Speaker 2: on the street, most is boys in their twenties.
Speaker 1: Oh and they want you to say, they want.
Speaker 2: Me to but they're curve fans and we're all old
Speaker 2: on that show. There's not a one of us under
Speaker 2: sixty on that show.
Speaker 1: That's funny. Yeah, you're right, we're all old. But the
Speaker 1: energy of the show is so fun.
Speaker 3: But I'm just saying that comedy kind of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, you're right, good comedy. Yeah, you're right. I
Speaker 1: feel like it's so also one of those things that
Speaker 1: it gets to be like your audience will come with you.
Speaker 1: I've good people come and see me. Now see me,
Speaker 1: Like twenty years ago, and they're you know, they're older,
Speaker 1: and they're you know, I'm doing jokes about my sore
Speaker 1: hip and they're reaching that point, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like it's like they will come with you.
Speaker 1: I think that you do get like musicians get it
Speaker 1: as well, although musicians get it really easy because you
Speaker 1: write a song when you're eighteen and you're still playing
Speaker 1: it when playing it.
Speaker 3: But music is another thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know my kids they listen to stuff
Speaker 2: from the eighties all the time.
Speaker 1: That is true. Actually that is weird. Is good because
Speaker 1: it's good and it has a certain lack of the
Speaker 1: whiff of the algorithm in it. It's not it wasn't
Speaker 1: made for your approval. It was made because it was
Speaker 1: some drug addict somewhere right playing a guitar, and so
Speaker 1: it kind of has a little not that I think
Speaker 1: you have to be a drug addict to make good music, but.
Speaker 3: They just that was just they just happened.
Speaker 1: To be happened to be drug addicts.
Speaker 3: Well, and amazingly some of them didn't die. Most of
Speaker 3: them are alive.
Speaker 1: A lot some of them are alive.
Speaker 2: I mean John Mayle, I saw died at ninety last
Speaker 2: week he was ninety.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's Mick Jagger is still performing, he's eighty.
Speaker 2: Well look at Keith, Well, Keith put into his body. Well,
Speaker 2: but you know, I worked with them for a little while. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and did you open for that?
Speaker 1: No? What I did was I was writing a screenplay
Speaker 1: with Mick Jagger. Oh really, So I was on the
Speaker 1: road with them for a little while.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, do you need to write about that.
Speaker 1: I've done it in the stand up and I've talked
Speaker 1: about it a ton of times. But the thing was
Speaker 1: that when I was out on the road with him,
Speaker 1: I was amazed by Keith because Keith is not what
Speaker 1: I thought he was going to be. Was the Bridge
Speaker 1: Is to Babylon tour, and that was the tour where
Speaker 1: Ronnie Wood went in rehab and he had to go
Speaker 1: into rehab because Keith said that he was you know,
Speaker 1: he's getting fucked up too much. Can you imagine walking
Speaker 1: at a rehab and you said you here, Yeah, Keith
Speaker 1: Richards thinks I'll get too fucked up to party in
Speaker 1: the group therapy session. I'm concerned. I'm concerned about you, Roddie.
Speaker 1: You know you're really letting yourself go. But I was
Speaker 1: kind of surprise by Keith Richard because he's got a
Speaker 1: kind of kind of streaked, tough guy vibe. It's not
Speaker 1: like a fucked up you know, Captain Jack from the
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of the persona that he's kind
Speaker 1: of like Larry and kurb you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like it's him, but it's not really him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of the way. Keith is more
Speaker 2: like a like an enforcer kind of a guy.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he I mean, now I don't know, I
Speaker 1: could probably yeah, he's eighty, but I mean, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. Actually, I don't know. He has He's pretty energetic,
Speaker 1: and Jagger is much more kind of like I felt
Speaker 1: like Meck was much more took a back seat to
Speaker 1: Keith's energy and really, yeah, interesting when they were so
Speaker 1: you know, no, no, they don't really socialize that much,
Speaker 1: but when they were kind of like being around before
Speaker 1: they go on stage, right, because everybody used to say,
Speaker 1: you know, Keith doesn't that, so don't do it, you know, like, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, but nobody doesn't like that.
Speaker 3: Keith was the alpha.
Speaker 1: I feel like, yes, now maybe I'm I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: That was the impression I go. I thought, Keith's the
Speaker 1: big dog here and Mike is the singer makes the showman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, he's the he's the kind of like he's
Speaker 1: the song and dance man at the front. But Keith
Speaker 1: is the you know, the Yeah, he's the them. And
Speaker 1: Charlie was still alive and you know, and so.
Speaker 3: He seemed like he was lovely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is a rose named he was really roses
Speaker 1: and he made his own Charlie was roses, really yeah,
Speaker 1: and he made them for his wife. His wife bred horses.
Speaker 1: It was very kind of genteel I kind of I
Speaker 1: was a big fan of you, a fan of their own.
Speaker 1: Stones was huge. Yeah, yeah, she was. So when you're
Speaker 1: a kid girl, you come from the Bronx, right, is
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 2: I was born in the Bronx, but then I grew
Speaker 2: up in meult Vernon, which is right next to the Bronx.
Speaker 1: That's like, that's like you're doing a little better. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, So your fat what were your family show business?
Speaker 1: Were you?
Speaker 2: No, not my family, but I had cousins and you know,
Speaker 2: my uncle was a director, of soap operas.
Speaker 1: You know, Oh that's kind of that's a way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was yes, because he gave me a
Speaker 2: part of an extra. It was One Life to Live
Speaker 2: and I played a nurse as an extra because you
Speaker 2: know there are always hospital scenes. Yes, sure, And and
Speaker 2: that's how I got my after card and then I
Speaker 2: got my sad card right out because at that time
Speaker 2: you could just you know, if you had one job
Speaker 2: or two jobs, get into the union.
Speaker 3: So I got into the union that way.
Speaker 1: That's how why I started doing stand up because I
Speaker 1: wanted to get into the Actors Union. And if you
Speaker 1: had three gigs, as this is in the UK Scotland,
Speaker 1: if I had done three shows as a stand up
Speaker 1: and go paid for him, I'd get in the iCal. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that.
Speaker 2: I mean no, I think no, sure, it's not like
Speaker 2: that at all, but that that so he helped me
Speaker 2: in that. But that was all the help you every game,
Speaker 2: all right, giving me a couple of extras as a nurse.
Speaker 1: If you get extrass as a nurse, then I had
Speaker 1: a little hat. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Really you were adorable talking about what year, like nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy seven, I bet you were adorable.
Speaker 1: I bet it was really lovely.
Speaker 2: So but then I didn't know nobody was hiring nobody
Speaker 2: was all of a sudden, my phone wasn't ringing.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's a tough game. But what about
Speaker 1: the stand up? Then? So what draws you into the
Speaker 1: stand up you'd seen prior?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Was that it?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 2: I think I was in a very bad place in
Speaker 2: my life. I was completely I was lost. I was
Speaker 2: twenty eight, I was older already. I was not, you know,
Speaker 2: a kid, and I just I thought I wanted to
Speaker 2: be an actress. And I graduated from from college. I
Speaker 2: didn't take acting there because I was too intimidated and
Speaker 2: too scared, I understand. And I started taking acting classes,
Speaker 2: and I was bored out of my mind, you know,
Speaker 2: scene study. Yet it always seemed like everybody lived right
Speaker 2: down the block over here. They were on forty fifth Street,
Speaker 2: and some walk up that you had to go for
Speaker 2: some scene study. I hated it, and it just didn't resonate.
Speaker 2: And then I just didn't know what.
Speaker 1: To do, and I was I hated it. When they
Speaker 1: I mooned, I knew I didn't have a future as
Speaker 1: an actor. I heard an actress saying, do you want
Speaker 1: me to honor the comma? When he was talking about
Speaker 1: the script. Fucked me exactly what fuck mate? I got
Speaker 1: a listened of this fucking shit honor the comma? Fuck you? Yeah.
Speaker 2: But so then I was really in a bit. I
Speaker 2: was in a depression. I had a horrible relationship and
Speaker 2: I was waitressing for years. And the way that I
Speaker 2: made the waitressing bearable is I would go back in
Speaker 2: the kitchen. I would imitate all the customers. I was
Speaker 2: always a really good mimic. And my waiter friends were
Speaker 2: the ones that kept using, you should do stand up,
Speaker 2: you should do stand I never.
Speaker 3: Thought of doing stand up.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: And then I went to an open mic night and
Speaker 2: there were these guys there, Paul Herzig and Bert Levitt,
Speaker 2: and I did my five minutes in three minutes because
Speaker 2: I was and they came up to me and they said,
Speaker 2: we thought you were great, and we're opening up a
Speaker 2: comedy club on University and in thirteenth Street downtown, and
Speaker 2: we want you to come work for us. Can we
Speaker 2: have your number? I gave my number. I never went
Speaker 2: back on stage. I was too scared. And about three
Speaker 2: or four months later they called me and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, I'll come down, and that's how I started.
Speaker 1: Wow did you?
Speaker 2: I never thought I was going to be a stand
Speaker 2: up comic. And then after a I just worked there
Speaker 2: because they were very what was the name of the club,
Speaker 2: comedy you comedy. They were very good to me and
Speaker 2: they gave me. They gave me a weekend spot within
Speaker 2: like two or three weeks where I made twenty bucks.
Speaker 1: And you're starting to do longer stage time of this, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: Well first they said to me, can you come down
Speaker 2: and do ten minutes? And like an idiot, I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll write ten minutes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is at the beginning. Ten minutes. It's a
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, it takes me ten minutes to can
Speaker 1: say good evening.
Speaker 2: Very supportive of me. I just got lucky with these guys.
Speaker 2: And then I started, you know, meeting all the other comics,
Speaker 2: and eventually after about six months, they were like they
Speaker 2: all forced me to go uptown to catch a rizing
Speaker 2: star and the comic strip.
Speaker 1: And so this is the eighties, right, because of the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, Yeah, it's a comedy boom has happening. Then. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like everybody's got piano key ties and their sleeves
Speaker 1: rolled up.
Speaker 3: And lines around the block every year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lived in New York at eighty four.
Speaker 1: That's when I got a spot at the comic Strip because.
Speaker 3: They used there.
Speaker 1: Then. Yeah, well you would have been in the big
Speaker 1: leagues though, because what happened was I I came to
Speaker 1: the country and I was I was trying to get
Speaker 1: on stage, and I heard that if you went up
Speaker 1: to the comic Strip on Second Avenue, it's like second
Speaker 1: and eight eighty first, right, So you go there on
Speaker 1: a Monday morning at ten a m. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: get a lot, take a number, take a lot of ticket, right,
Speaker 1: and then if you get picked in the loado. And
Speaker 1: so I go up and there's like maybe thirty stand ups,
Speaker 1: young people waiting to get on stage, mostly boys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I take a ticket and I do not get picked.
Speaker 1: So I say to the bartender who's running the little thing,
Speaker 1: I said, how does this work? Because my number didn't
Speaker 1: get picked? And he heard my accent. He went, where
Speaker 1: are you from? I went from Scotland. He went, hang
Speaker 1: on a minute, and he gave me a ticket. I
Speaker 1: gotta fucking see this, So he let me do it
Speaker 1: and the first thing I did it, it was fine, and
Speaker 1: Lucian Holmess was there. He was there. He said, come back,
Speaker 1: come back next Monday, I'll give you a spot. And
Speaker 1: I went back next Monday.
Speaker 2: And I fucking bomb Monday night, if I recall, was
Speaker 2: the night that they had the beginners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well I had to audition for him in
Speaker 2: the middle of the afternoon in an empty room. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, horrible, that's horrible. But I think he had
Speaker 2: a little crush on me, so he passed me.
Speaker 1: So then he says, okay, this is someone that we book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so did you ever have you have to do it?
Speaker 2: Yes, weirdly. And then but then you have to give
Speaker 2: your availability. And then you would call up every Monday,
Speaker 2: let's say, and say do you have any spots?
Speaker 3: And it was always so fraught, you know, did I
Speaker 3: get a spot this week? And I guess, and like if.
Speaker 2: It was like a couple of weeks in a row,
Speaker 2: you can't get a spot, you were like, oh they
Speaker 2: hate me now, and oh god, it was horrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was bad. So when did you start, like
Speaker 1: right by you're working with Joy Behars, Yes, she was
Speaker 1: working round at the same time.
Speaker 3: I read her a comedy you.
Speaker 1: Coming up through at the same time, right, Yeah, Joy's
Speaker 1: her stand up is quite abrasive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's always been a great joke writer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I think people don't know what a good you know, strong.
Speaker 3: She was a strong.
Speaker 2: She influenced me a lot because we became friends when
Speaker 2: we first met in nineteen eighty three, right, and we're
Speaker 2: still best friends, right all these years. But when I
Speaker 2: when I first I used to do these characters. And
Speaker 2: when I first saw her on stage and we had
Speaker 2: been talking backstage and then she went on stage, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I see what she's doing. She's just
Speaker 2: being like how I am sitting around the kitchen table
Speaker 2: with my girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: She was just so herself and so real and natural
Speaker 2: but telling jokes. But her persona was the same as
Speaker 2: it was off stage. That's interesting and that affected me
Speaker 2: a lot. That was where you know, you don't know
Speaker 2: who you are in the beginning when.
Speaker 1: You get one anyway. I mean, guys, well, if you
Speaker 1: said you were twenty nine, I guess you're getting into that.
Speaker 1: I also think the stand up this is my theory.
Speaker 1: People listen to this podcast bored with me saying I'm sure,
Speaker 1: but but I haven't heard it. Well, so here's what
Speaker 1: it is. I believe that stand up comedians become good
Speaker 1: ones become comedians as a reaction to trauma.
Speaker 3: That's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. My wife takes it further.
Speaker 1: She says, it's a reaction to your mother, but that
Speaker 1: she knew my mother.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, so many female comics. I don't know
Speaker 2: about male coup, but so many female comics I know
Speaker 2: had depressed mothers. Yeah, And there was this wanting to
Speaker 2: make her laugh, wanting to cheer her up, ye, constantly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the thing about being funny, I mean I knew
Speaker 2: when I was like, you know, like two, that I
Speaker 2: was funny, right, And I saw that this was a
Speaker 2: survival thing.
Speaker 1: Sure, it's a currency, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because she was depressed, you know, with the lying under
Speaker 2: the covers, your mom. Yeah, she was in a deep
Speaker 2: She was a deeply depressed person. And it was like,
Speaker 2: all right, I need attention from somebody because I'm not
Speaker 2: getting from her because she's too upp her own asshole.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So I was funny and I saw it from funny,
Speaker 2: I get attention. It was like just simple cause and
Speaker 2: the fact.
Speaker 1: I remember exactly the same thing. My mother was very
Speaker 1: sick when I was a little kid. I don't really
Speaker 1: I never really found out way exactly what it was.
Speaker 1: They used to say at say, woman's trouble.
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: You never a period that whole time.
Speaker 1: No. I think it was probably more to do with
Speaker 1: like the plumbing in that area or something. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I never to this day, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: My family are like, man, is she alive? No, she
Speaker 1: died years ago. She never told me. But I was
Speaker 1: talking to lou Black about, you know, this this mother thing,
Speaker 1: and I said, my wife's theory is the head. You know,
Speaker 1: comedians all have the same mom. It's a mom. He
Speaker 1: liked his mom, I know, but this is funny. I liked.
Speaker 2: Nothing.
Speaker 3: I didn't like her. She was she was difficult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my moment. So this is my wife's theory is
Speaker 1: everybody has the same moment. He So Lewis said to me,
Speaker 1: what is that? He said, cold with bad boundaries.
Speaker 2: That's bad boundaries, Yes, cold with bad Meryl Marco has
Speaker 2: this belief that all the female comedians had the same
Speaker 2: withholding mother. Yeah, now Joyce was not joy had a
Speaker 2: very loving mother.
Speaker 3: She come.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. We talk about it all the time. She
Speaker 2: came from the complete opposite of what I came from.
Speaker 2: I was constantly told shut up, stop showing off, and
Speaker 2: she was told come here and entertain us.
Speaker 3: It's a completely different vibe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's funny that because I was talking to
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with Robert Smike?
Speaker 2: You know Robert, love him, He's a friend. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: so Robert and how funny is triumph? Oh my god,
Speaker 2: Triumph is one of those things that can get me
Speaker 2: into just hysterical.
Speaker 1: It's Laureland Hardy level iconic, iconic comedy in America, I think.
Speaker 1: But he he was talking about his parents were really
Speaker 1: supportive too. I was talking to him on this podcast
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, they were great and really
Speaker 1: so all my theory about that kind of went out
Speaker 1: of the way.
Speaker 2: But I think if you look, there's more negatives than
Speaker 2: positives comedians.
Speaker 1: I think there has to be. That's what for me.
Speaker 1: That's the only thing that kind of makes sense about it.
Speaker 1: But I was saying, Luisa, but I want to tell
Speaker 1: you this that lucaid because his mom died when she
Speaker 1: was one hundred and four old. Yeah, one hundred and four.
Speaker 1: And he looked at me when I said the cold
Speaker 1: with barbers, and he went, oh, my god, that's so accurate.
Speaker 1: The only time I looked my mom in the eye
Speaker 1: was she was on her deathbed. But his parents used
Speaker 1: to come to every shop.
Speaker 3: They were very mine.
Speaker 1: Oh no, not, I understand. I think you and I
Speaker 1: are from my mother.
Speaker 2: My mother didn't really like me, so I had but
Speaker 2: she didn't she really Yeah, and a lot of I've
Speaker 2: analyzed it every which way, but so I had to
Speaker 2: go out and make the world love me.
Speaker 3: I had to do. That's what I had to do.
Speaker 3: And then I did.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons I don't do stand
Speaker 2: up is I don't have the same need anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Figured that one out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's other things that are you know, you
Speaker 2: could do with I mean, it's such a creative thing.
Speaker 1: I think also as well with stand up, because I
Speaker 1: didn't do it for a long time and I stopped
Speaker 1: don't stand up? And then when I got the Late
Speaker 1: Night Show, I thought, you know what these people at
Speaker 1: CBS and and who are in show business. If I
Speaker 1: fuck up here, they'll cut my throat throw me in
Speaker 1: the East River so fucking fast that I better have
Speaker 1: a fucking plan. B And I thought, if I'm doing
Speaker 1: late night, I'll go back to doing stand up because
Speaker 1: it's so similar. One toll feed the other. Stand up
Speaker 1: will help make the late night show bear, and the
Speaker 1: late night show will send people to come and see me.
Speaker 1: Then you're down and so and so. That's what I did.
Speaker 1: And that's the only reason I go back in. But
Speaker 1: when I got back into it, I fell in love
Speaker 1: with it again. I think, you know, this is why
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pitch it to you.
Speaker 2: You know what, I think that every and I know
Speaker 2: this from Larry, I think that every comedian's dream is
Speaker 2: to draw because all those years you're in these showcase
Speaker 2: clubs and they're not there to see you, so you
Speaker 2: have to spend so much time winning them over. But
Speaker 2: when you're drawing, they're there to see you, so you're.
Speaker 1: Funny right away you walk on in their laugh. That's right.
Speaker 2: There's other anxiety because they're paying a lot of money
Speaker 2: to see you, so you have that pressure.
Speaker 1: You got to deliver.
Speaker 2: You got to deliver what. I was just going to
Speaker 2: say something about what was it about Lewis? That's gone?
Speaker 1: Well Larry, you said, Larry, Oh well, Larry.
Speaker 2: You know Larry starts a stand up and Larry his
Speaker 2: material was brilliant. We would all come in the room
Speaker 2: to watch him because the material was like not like
Speaker 2: anybody else's material. I believe it out there, but Larry
Speaker 2: never I don't. Well, he didn't really care, I think,
Speaker 2: but he wasn't able to draw the audience into If
Speaker 2: they got him, it was great, but if they didn't,
Speaker 2: he was not able. You know, we all have a
Speaker 2: bag of trips about now.
Speaker 3: They would come to see him. Sure, So now I
Speaker 3: think he should do it again.
Speaker 1: I think so. And I think also it's kind of
Speaker 1: like if you learn to play the guitar really well
Speaker 1: when you were a kid, you probably should go back
Speaker 1: and do it again, you know, every you should enjoy
Speaker 1: it and the pressure is off, like like if you
Speaker 1: go into a club and people say, you know, you
Speaker 1: did a draw upen somewhere in some club in your work,
Speaker 1: and then somebody introduce you and you walk up, people
Speaker 1: are going to go fucking nuts right away. And then
Speaker 1: and then you can enjoy yourself.
Speaker 2: What if I don't deliver right now?
Speaker 1: You're delivering right now? Think about it and then you say,
Speaker 1: you say, what if I don't deliver? Continue?
Speaker 3: You can say that, well, that was my act. Was
Speaker 3: always just totally in the moment.
Speaker 2: I never had you know, I was never one of
Speaker 2: these you know, started a and end.
Speaker 3: And Z kind of comedians.
Speaker 1: I like that stuff. I admire, but I can't really
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: I can't do I try. I would try to do
Speaker 2: it that way. And you know, of course, the master
Speaker 2: of being all over the place is my dear friend
Speaker 2: Richard Lewis, who is no longer rich I mean, he
Speaker 2: would just be so all over the price saying and
Speaker 2: tied together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was brilliant Richard. It is funny because he
Speaker 1: was doing Curb obviously he was sick in the last season,
Speaker 1: and he and I would email each other all the
Speaker 1: time because he was. He said to me, he said,
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by you because you're not Jewish, and yet
Speaker 1: I like you and your funny How many years.
Speaker 3: Should do the lure? Wow? Did you love it?
Speaker 1: Yes? It was yes, everything you know, I mean what
Speaker 1: it was was is it demystified show business? For me,
Speaker 1: which I'm very grateful. You know that, you realize to mans,
Speaker 1: to douchebag ratio and show businesses the same as pretty
Speaker 1: much any bar or or room you go in.
Speaker 3: And people aren't who you think they are.
Speaker 1: No, some of them were fucking horrible, and some.
Speaker 3: Of them were pleasantly surprised.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I became friends with like people who
Speaker 1: were here, like Robin Williams and I became friend. Carrie
Speaker 1: Fisher and I became friends. But I also became friends
Speaker 1: with like Larry King and I became friend. Really I
Speaker 1: see that one coming at all, you know, because I
Speaker 1: was I like, used to make fun of them.
Speaker 3: Well he was so make fun of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I used to do this horrible impression of
Speaker 1: him on the show, but it made him laugh and
Speaker 1: then it kind of.
Speaker 3: He was easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was easy. He wasn't touchy, no, no, not
Speaker 1: at all. You know, he was like he was kind
Speaker 1: of he had that kind of I don't know if
Speaker 1: you this an old Scottish word. He had the kind
Speaker 1: of a sugar and vibe, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's not a Scotch, but he had that kind of
Speaker 1: you know, what's all right? He kind of like he
Speaker 1: was a little bit wise guy, a little bit kind
Speaker 1: of good guy.
Speaker 2: Well he came, you know, he was a street guy
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn, I mean, you know, and and there was
Speaker 2: all these these Jewish mobsters around when he grew up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he used to run numbers for the who's the
Speaker 1: name of that guy in Miami, the Maya Lansky Lansky
Speaker 1: He got arrested.
Speaker 2: My grandfather used to run numbers for Louis Lepke. Really yeah,
Speaker 2: so your family are a little well, you know, they
Speaker 2: they but they were immigrants. They did what they had
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the condition. They did what he had.
Speaker 3: He wasn't that bright. My grandfather.
Speaker 2: They said he got hit on the head as a kid, right,
Speaker 2: and my grandparent's that a horrible marriage. And they they
Speaker 2: used to say that my grandfather had a twin. Well
Speaker 2: they that's this is true. He had a twin that
Speaker 2: died in infancy. And my grandmother used to say to him,
Speaker 2: the wrong twin died?
Speaker 3: Is he?
Speaker 1: Oh my yeah?
Speaker 2: But he like he did what he could. You know,
Speaker 2: he was an immigrant, he had no education. You run numbers,
Speaker 2: You do what you.
Speaker 3: Have to do.
Speaker 1: Run and he kind of trouble when you were like,
Speaker 1: because New York in the eighties, when you were coming
Speaker 1: up as a stand up, do you ever run in
Speaker 1: any trouble? Like No, only was a lot of crime around,
Speaker 1: but it was a lot of drugs around. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Well. And I lived on seventy third and Amsterdam and
Speaker 2: right there was Needle Park.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that was Needle Park.
Speaker 2: Joy loves to tell the story about these guys mugged
Speaker 2: me and I scared the shit out of them.
Speaker 1: I just started screaming. I lived on.
Speaker 2: Seventy through and it was one of these buildings where
Speaker 2: you have to walk down the stairs into the vest.
Speaker 3: No dorman in those days. You know, I was poor
Speaker 3: and it was.
Speaker 2: Not a good and they fought I'm coming home from
Speaker 2: clubs at two three o'clock in the morning. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: they followed me in and it was two of them,
Speaker 2: and I just turned on them like I felt no fear.
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, I just turned I got so fucking angry. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I just turned on my sort of screaming at
Speaker 2: my said if I pressed this buzz and my husband's
Speaker 2: going to come. I didn't have a husband. My husband's
Speaker 2: going to come downstairs with a shotgun. To blow your
Speaker 2: fucking head off. And they just they were like, she's crazy, man,
Speaker 2: she's crazy. Let's get out of here, and they left.
Speaker 1: Did you feel fear later on once they go, I felt
Speaker 1: pissed off. I never felt the fear.
Speaker 3: No, no, I was pissed off.
Speaker 1: Your mom is pretty tough on you.
Speaker 2: But you learn how to deal with it, of course,
Speaker 2: Like you don't walk, you know, on the sidewalk close
Speaker 2: to the building, you walk, closer to the street, you walk.
Speaker 3: And I tried to teach.
Speaker 2: My girls, you know, my daughters when they moved, and
Speaker 2: they say, always have your keys in your hand. Don't
Speaker 2: be at the door fumbling for your keys. They didn't
Speaker 2: listen to me. They think everything I said was stupid.
Speaker 1: Well that's part of I haven't kids. Yeah, I say
Speaker 1: stuff now like I try and give advice to my kids,
Speaker 1: so like fuck, like I feel like I got some
Speaker 1: information in my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they think you're a fucking idiot. They do
Speaker 2: think you're a way but then they come yours are
Speaker 2: younger than mine.
Speaker 1: I think how old My oldest is twenty three, my
Speaker 1: younger sister thirteen.
Speaker 2: So they're young. Mine are all thirty and over. So
Speaker 2: now they come to me. Juliana, I remember the most difficult.
Speaker 2: She was the middle child when she came to me
Speaker 2: and she said to me, I mean maybe five six
Speaker 2: years ago, you were right about everything.
Speaker 3: It's the greatest day.
Speaker 1: Of my life. Oh my god, it's the greatest day
Speaker 1: live for that. But they're they're young, they will yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but maybe maybe the little one will.
Speaker 1: But the older one, he's he's got his ideas until
Speaker 1: until those ideas yea, yeah, yeah, maybe I don't know,
Speaker 1: and then maybe and maybe they won't work. Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about a comedian that I loved.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you and you are. It was
Speaker 1: Joan Rivers. Did you know Joan?
Speaker 3: I knew Joan not well, but I didn't know john.
Speaker 1: I never met her once in my life. Oh really, no,
Speaker 1: no once. I wanted to have her on the Late
Speaker 1: Night Show, but they wouldn't do it because the producer
Speaker 1: of the show, my producer was also the producer of
Speaker 1: Johnny Carson's The Tonight Show, and they had that big
Speaker 1: fight with Johnny and Joanas of this, so they would
Speaker 1: never let me book Joan.
Speaker 2: Jon's interesting. Yeah, you know, she was an interesting person. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and my very dear friend Larry Amrose. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you know Larry. He wrote all her books and
Speaker 2: all her you know, really a lot of her stuff
Speaker 2: with her. When I first met Joan, she was probably
Speaker 2: probably younger than me at the time. She's probably sixty ish, right,
Speaker 2: and she was this was before Edgar died and all.
Speaker 2: And she was not She did not was not supportive
Speaker 2: of younger females. At the time. She was more competitive
Speaker 2: and I felt that from her very much. But then
Speaker 2: later on she became much more gracious and much more.
Speaker 2: She became much more supportive and loving, and in her
Speaker 2: older age, I think after she went through a lot more,
Speaker 2: she became much more of a grand dame.
Speaker 1: I can see that happen. And I find myself now, like,
Speaker 1: now that I'm older, a little bit of success does
Speaker 1: this too? You start to lighten up pulling other people
Speaker 1: a little bit, don't you think?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Not ever.
Speaker 3: And you know I was never competitive with her.
Speaker 2: She was just you know, if you look at them,
Speaker 2: watch the movie, Yeah, that documentary, you see that there's
Speaker 2: nothing book that there was a hysteria there about about
Speaker 2: working and having to do it constantly. Yeah, that I
Speaker 2: never felt that. I'm a completely different animal than that,
Speaker 2: but I think that was part of you know why.
Speaker 2: And then I think she got more relaxed as she
Speaker 2: got older.
Speaker 1: Did you have that? Were you competitive when you were younger? Like,
Speaker 1: did you feel competitive with the other comics or it
Speaker 1: was only women comics or did you feel competitive with
Speaker 1: all comics? So you didn't feel it at all?
Speaker 2: No, I definitely felt it because you were in the
Speaker 2: early days. You're competing for spots, right, so.
Speaker 1: It's a definite thing, is a competition.
Speaker 2: And with other females, they would only put one woman
Speaker 2: on a bill. They would never put two women on
Speaker 2: a lineup, so there weren't there weren't that many different
Speaker 2: I know, there weren't that many of us, so that
Speaker 2: was one thing. But you know, I'm I mean, you
Speaker 2: want that spot, so yeah, you're competitive. I wasn't cutthroat competitive.
Speaker 2: I was just you know, I want what they have,
Speaker 2: give it to make sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you kind of need to have
Speaker 1: that a little bit.
Speaker 2: What was interesting with Joy is that I never felt
Speaker 2: competitive with Joy or she with me. I think that
Speaker 2: we kind of got very early on that we were
Speaker 2: stronger together yeah, and then we were kind of like
Speaker 2: a force. You know, we would walk into catchising, so
Speaker 2: everybody new Joy and Susie, you know, they didn't mess
Speaker 2: with us. Chris Rock, he always would ask if we
Speaker 2: were in the room before he went on, because he
Speaker 2: knew if he did sexist material, we'd pull him over.
Speaker 3: And teach him a few things.
Speaker 1: Oh really, that's kind of all. He was a kid,
Speaker 1: he was eighteen. He didn't he needed to be taught.
Speaker 1: It's funny though, that because I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that exists now, but I'm not aware of it.
Speaker 1: Like I'm fascinated by the the way things are with comedy,
Speaker 1: like you talking to you as a comedian, Right, you
Speaker 1: kind of came to come because because things fucking sucked
Speaker 1: and you didn't know what else to do.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't have done it if things had been
Speaker 2: good and I had another profession. Right, No, it was
Speaker 2: too scary and too hard, but I didn't know how
Speaker 2: hard it was.
Speaker 1: But kids are coming up and they're like, I would
Speaker 1: like to be a comedian, and they go to like
Speaker 1: they can have college courses on how to do stand up,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's better. I don't know, but.
Speaker 2: I think a class can be helpful for a very
Speaker 2: short period of time because it's a safe place to
Speaker 2: get up and kind of get your sea legs.
Speaker 3: But then you need an audience.
Speaker 2: You can't.
Speaker 3: You need an audience. You know.
Speaker 1: I need to fail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you need to fail. You need to fail big,
Speaker 2: and we all have big and often it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: these people come up to me. I'm sure they do
Speaker 2: to you. I killed it. I gave the roast the
Speaker 2: toast at my brother's wedding and I killed So I
Speaker 2: think I could do this. Okay, I go in front
Speaker 2: of strangers, that's right.
Speaker 1: There was a bunch of people who hate you on side. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they have to forgive you for trying to make
Speaker 1: them laugh. You know, they're like they're ready to go.
Speaker 1: When I started, there were no stand up clubs where
Speaker 1: I started in Glasgow in Scotland, none, none, no stand up.
Speaker 1: The only comedian that I knew about was Billy Connolly.
Speaker 1: It was brilliant, amazing, Billy's amazing Billy. Billy was like
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson for me. I mean it was like before
Speaker 1: Billy there was like no one from where I came
Speaker 1: from did that. I was aware of and Billy had
Speaker 1: kind of created a world, but there was no catch
Speaker 1: or or or comics to Brinton. So I'd do music clubs,
Speaker 1: but it was the time of punk rock, so they
Speaker 1: would say things like they would say, all right that
Speaker 1: we're going to stop the music for a minute. Now
Speaker 1: here's some counts. He's funny.
Speaker 3: Oh horrible, And especially if you do it, because I've
Speaker 3: done us. I did music.
Speaker 2: I did The Bitter End in the early days, you know,
Speaker 2: all that stuff and the bottom line, and they would
Speaker 2: to see this, you know, musician, and they did not
Speaker 2: want to hear what you had to say.
Speaker 1: You know. Lars from Metallica said to me, Hey, uh,
Speaker 1: we're thinking about maybe having a comedian open for us
Speaker 1: on the next tour. I'm like, find somebody else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Were there clubs in Edinburgh, No, Glasgow, there was clubs
Speaker 2: in London.
Speaker 1: There were clubs in London. And so what I did
Speaker 1: was after I'd done a couple of shows in Glass,
Speaker 1: I had done the comic strip in New York, and
Speaker 1: then I went back to collegause my visa ran out
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to get deported or get into
Speaker 1: trouble because I knew i'd want to come back later on,
Speaker 1: so I go back to the UK. I tried doing
Speaker 1: these gigs in Scotland and it's not really working that well.
Speaker 1: And they have these clubs in London, but that was poor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fucking I know, we all we were so nobody
Speaker 2: understands afore.
Speaker 1: So I used to have to get like a greyhound
Speaker 1: bus from Glasgow to London the overnight. It's that's far
Speaker 1: too Yeah, it's like five hundred miles and you'd start
Speaker 1: on the way and everybody's drunk on the bus and
Speaker 1: it's horrible and people are cold and freezing. And I
Speaker 1: get to London. I had to wait all day to
Speaker 1: go and do an open mic spot at one of
Speaker 1: these clubs. Yeah, don't get no money, and then go
Speaker 1: back to Scotland on the bus and it never wouldn't
Speaker 1: even cover my fare. Yeah, and yet I fucking did it.
Speaker 3: I did it.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I still look at it now
Speaker 1: and go, Jesus Christ, what was wrong. It's a good
Speaker 1: thing you did it is, But that's why I'm fascinated
Speaker 1: by people like us who fail and then don't.
Speaker 3: My husband were watching the Olympics last night. He was
Speaker 3: saying something.
Speaker 2: Imagine you know that we're watching the gymnasts getting on
Speaker 2: the beam, which is like, what is it four inches
Speaker 2: in was insane. It's like, imagine getting up there and
Speaker 2: not knowing what you're doing. But I was like, what
Speaker 2: do you think it felt like getting up on stage?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What do you think that felt like?
Speaker 1: Terror?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Man, I don't know how I did it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's every action to trauma. That's what I'm
Speaker 1: convinced about it. Did you do you watch the Olympics?
Speaker 1: So you watch it? Yeah? Yeah, because I like I
Speaker 1: watched it. I'm like, it's very impressive, but it's like jugglers.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, great, good for you.
Speaker 2: The thing that kills me about it is that, you know,
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm not talking about the basketball of
Speaker 2: the tennis so the people who make shitloads of money,
Speaker 2: not Lebron James, right, but just these amateur athletes that
Speaker 2: spend their entire life training and then one little injury
Speaker 2: and they're done and they never made a.
Speaker 1: Dime, or you lose by one hundreds of.
Speaker 2: A second and that's it, and they're We've been training
Speaker 2: for for the past twenty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that feels insane.
Speaker 1: To me, it does like if you if you think, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to sneeze just before the starting gun goes off,
Speaker 1: and it slows you down by one hundred of alcon.
Speaker 3: And that's it.
Speaker 1: That's it. So it feels like like I watched the
Speaker 1: swimming the other day. That's it out there. Every four
Speaker 1: years they hoodwink me in watching people swimming. What the
Speaker 1: fuck am I doing watching people.
Speaker 3: Watching them race, not swim.
Speaker 1: But my wife is like, on the swimming real fast,
Speaker 1: I'm like, how could you even fucking tell? Like, if
Speaker 1: you see someone swimming, they're swimming, unless unless you're not diving.
Speaker 1: Diving is pretty impressive. I think that's impressive. But you
Speaker 1: watch the diving.
Speaker 3: They haven't had it yet, No, they haven't. Ye, yeah,
Speaker 3: but I've seen it.
Speaker 2: I like the track, yeah, I like watching at people
Speaker 2: run really fasting and how do they do those hurdles?
Speaker 1: It's hard. Yeah, it's so hard. I never even tried.
Speaker 2: I'm impressed with people that are in that kind of
Speaker 2: physical condition.
Speaker 1: I'd love to be in that case.
Speaker 3: Literally, that's not gonna, No, it's not.
Speaker 1: Now, I'm not gonna. I'm not going to do the
Speaker 1: Olympics unless they introduce kind of like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if there's even a sport I would get to do. Now,
Speaker 1: maybe ambling, if they had an ambling competition, Yeah, ambling, gandering, gardening, gardening,
Speaker 1: Yeah I can, I don't really.
Speaker 3: I'm pulling that weed really really quickly.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Greig's going in for a prune. He's going for a prune.
Speaker 1: He's he's printed it off and he's near the stalk.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. I don't know if that's if
Speaker 1: there's good? Is there anything that you regret about the career?
Speaker 1: A great career, you still have a great career, But
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, there's no I mean, I never
Speaker 2: moved to I might have had a bigger career if
Speaker 2: I moved to LA, but I never wanted to. I
Speaker 2: always stayed in New York. This will sound silly, but
Speaker 2: there are certain I mean, I could name them. It's
Speaker 2: maybe five six times when I was on stage when
Speaker 2: I said something I regretted. Oh yeah, you know, and
Speaker 2: I still remember those things, like once I made fun
Speaker 2: of this woman's outfit and it was just mean and
Speaker 2: I don't know why I did that.
Speaker 3: That was and I remember it and I regret it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it sounds so silly in a way
Speaker 2: because I've had ten thousand sets where I didn't do that,
Speaker 2: but I remember those few.
Speaker 1: Well. That's that's the kind of interesting thing about it,
Speaker 1: because sometimes when you're working like that, if you're doing
Speaker 1: crowd work, if you're doing if you're improvising, and then
Speaker 1: you're paying attention to the crowd, maybe you make a
Speaker 1: mistake and you say something mean when you wish.
Speaker 2: Usually when you say something mean, it's defensive. It's because
Speaker 2: you're feeling insecure or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the trouble is, now, if that goes, somebody
Speaker 1: gets a recording to that, then that's who you are.
Speaker 3: That's who you are.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was not what happened, and it didn't happen
Speaker 2: that often, but I remember them and they stay in
Speaker 2: my body.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand it. You're like, ah, I did a
Speaker 1: joke on late night once and I still think about it,
Speaker 1: like what it was like. Remember George Clooney had a peg.
Speaker 1: I don't remember George Clutey had a George Clotey had
Speaker 1: a pet peg. This is early on. I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done it layer, but George Cliney had a pet peg
Speaker 1: and then the pig died and somebody, one of the
Speaker 1: guys wrote a joke. It's like that George Clone's pig
Speaker 1: died and the funeral services are tomorrow, and then baked
Speaker 1: damages at George South. It's like, like, that's a fucking
Speaker 1: mean thing to say about. But I did it. I
Speaker 1: did the joke, and you know, and I wish I
Speaker 1: hadn't done it, because it's hard.
Speaker 2: We we are in ourselves. There are people who do
Speaker 2: ship like that all the time, and assholes.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to politicians, Yeah, they are too. It's one
Speaker 1: thing I noticed about having politicians when I was doing
Speaker 1: the Late Night Show. It's tough because they're they're pretty
Speaker 1: much universally assholes. Yeah, like all of them.
Speaker 2: Well, who wants to be Some people I think are
Speaker 2: into public service for the public service. Okay, let's run
Speaker 2: with that as But maybe you know, you want to
Speaker 2: be president. You say I want to be leader of
Speaker 2: the free world. What kind of ego is that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little trick.
Speaker 3: It's massive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little trick. Yeah, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know how I any politician I've met, I've always
Speaker 1: been very kind of uncomfortable with, like I feel like
Speaker 1: your hands in my pocket somehow. Well it is, yeah,
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 3: But now more than ever because they need so much
Speaker 3: money they do.
Speaker 1: You get these the emails and the game daily all
Speaker 1: the time. I know, they say your name. It's like, hey, Craig,
Speaker 1: it's me. Yeah something I was texting me every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but then he doesn't know how to text to text?
Speaker 3: This is this is how ridiculous I am.
Speaker 2: You could you know, I could like block it, but
Speaker 2: then I feel bad blocking it.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The truth of the matter is they don't know it's
Speaker 2: a fucking bot or but I feel like, well, then
Speaker 2: they're going to think that I'm not a support whatever
Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, I get, you know, insane about it.
Speaker 1: Well, I get I get fundraising texts and emails from people.
Speaker 1: I'm like, do you know me at all? It's like
Speaker 1: it's almost like, uh, we're running on a platform of
Speaker 1: hating Scottish people. Would you like, like what this is?
Speaker 1: Why would do you think?
Speaker 2: Let me ask you a totally ignorant question. Is Scotland
Speaker 2: a republic?
Speaker 1: No, Scotland is the United Kingdom. So you're not part
Speaker 1: of the EU no anymore. No, Scotland, England, nor In
Speaker 1: Ireland and Wales are all part of the United Kingdom.
Speaker 3: Right, but Ireland is part of the EU.
Speaker 1: Southern Southern Ireland, Ireland, Ireland, Northern Ireland is part of
Speaker 1: the Yeah, that's a whole mash. You don't want to
Speaker 1: get into that argument.
Speaker 2: That's that's like that's Israel Palestine a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like there's no I don't know how you
Speaker 1: figured this out, but there's that. And then Scotland has
Speaker 1: a big because.
Speaker 2: Aren't they constantly doing referendums forever?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how do you feel about that? I do
Speaker 1: not want to discuss that with you, okay, because I
Speaker 1: understand because they will pick it up over there, okay,
Speaker 1: and you know, and it's like right down the middle.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you afterwards. Okay, I understand, But but if
Speaker 1: I do it now, some fucker over there will pick
Speaker 1: it up and then you know after Oh my god. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like it's so on fire.
Speaker 3: On both sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: The interesting thing is I was telling someone is I
Speaker 1: don't do any politics in the Act. And I made
Speaker 1: this rule for myself never this is only about four
Speaker 1: years ago. I used to do it, and then I
Speaker 1: was like, no, I'm not because when things went on
Speaker 1: fire usually run about twenty sixteen, things got really heat,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: any politics ston and I made a stylistic choice no
Speaker 1: politics at all in the act. And the only people
Speaker 1: that gave me a hard time about that were people
Speaker 1: that I actually agreed with really yeah, it's really funny.
Speaker 1: People I didn't agree with them like oh good, you know,
Speaker 1: or it just never occurred to them. But people that
Speaker 1: I knew my politics were like, why why aren't you
Speaker 1: that's terrible you should be And I'm like.
Speaker 3: Why why why do you have to be that?
Speaker 1: Why I have to fucking do it. I'm not a politician,
Speaker 1: and also my job is And also there are people
Speaker 1: that do it. I always I never did politic see that,
Speaker 1: And there are people who do it really well. People
Speaker 1: they were just.
Speaker 2: Talking about Lewis Black, Yeah rarely, but mar I mean people.
Speaker 3: Who do it really really.
Speaker 1: I could never do it well.
Speaker 3: So I just I just stayed away from that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just do like me failing to work over
Speaker 1: its basically how much I suck. It's the basic mind
Speaker 1: that I go to over and over again. Ship that's
Speaker 1: happened to me and how much I suck. Anyway, this
Speaker 1: has been great for me. I'm a huge fan of yours,
Speaker 1: and I always get a little uncomfortable when I have
Speaker 1: someone on the show that I'm a fan of, because
Speaker 1: I think are think going to be awful and you
Speaker 1: are the opposite of that. Oh well, thank you, you are
Speaker 1: absolutely well.
Speaker 2: People always think I'm gonna be Susie Green and I'm
Speaker 2: going to walk in here telling everybody to go fuck
Speaker 2: themselves and wearing some crazy fucking outfit.
Speaker 1: I was hopeful, act Yeah, I was hopeful you wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like that. But I thought, you gotta be grumpy,
Speaker 1: You're gotta be shut down. Are you gonna you know
Speaker 1: the season? No? You know what?
Speaker 2: I actually I love my life, bless you.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to push you further than that. Get
Speaker 1: out of here a paper for two pot