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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abusive power you'd like to share,

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Speaker 1: leave us a message on our hotline number at five

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Speaker 1: one three nine hundred two nine five five, or she.

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Speaker 2: Had us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Trust Me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person. I've never lived to you,

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Speaker 3: and we never have a live.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 1: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 1: belief and the abusive power from two Thetans who've actually

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Speaker 1: experienced it. I am Lo La Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: This week is part two of our interview with April Snow,

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Speaker 1: former scientologist and s ORG member and generally cool chick.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we will continue the conversation about what

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Speaker 1: it was like to grow up in scientology and dive

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Speaker 1: deeper into topics like whether the church is actually as

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Speaker 1: good at treating alcohol and our addiction as people say.

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Speaker 1: Her appearance on Leah Remedie's show Scientology in the Aftermath,

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Speaker 1: and how the fallout with the people in her life

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Speaker 1: began after.

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Speaker 2: She left the church and more. This part's good. I

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Speaker 2: mean the first part was great too.

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Speaker 1: But so you're a two part girl, A part two girl.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm a part one girl. I'm a part

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Speaker 1: five girls. I'm not team part one or part two.

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Speaker 1: I'm not claiming any teams. I just really like this

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Speaker 1: part two. You know she looks part two two. So

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Speaker 1: please tell me what the culty is thing that's happened

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Speaker 1: to you this time?

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, mine is kind of a news story,

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Speaker 2: and I've been sending you some links to a few

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Speaker 2: news stories. But you're in the cult of hard work

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Speaker 2: right now. You have been working harder than anyone, So

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Speaker 2: forgive me if I've already shown this to you. I

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Speaker 2: know we haven't discussed it yet, but I'm seeing these

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Speaker 2: things about how Alison Mack, the Smallville actress who was

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Speaker 2: in Exiam, is going to be sentenced, and people are

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Speaker 2: saying she's probably not gonna get any jail time because

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Speaker 2: she released some recordings of Keith talking about the branding

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Speaker 2: of all of these women that he's claimed he never

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Speaker 2: knew was going to happen.

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Speaker 4: WHOA really Yeah, okay, so low key Alison mack faved

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Speaker 4: my tweet randomly a couple months ago, and that has

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Speaker 4: done that with a couple people.

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Speaker 1: I know she's circling. So do we think that that

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Speaker 1: was a purely legal strategic decision or do we think

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Speaker 1: that she's like maybe sort of coming to terms with

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Speaker 1: the reality of the situation.

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Speaker 5: I think she might be coming to terms with.

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Speaker 1: It, because I can't imagine her doing that to save

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Speaker 1: her own ass if she's still totally thought Keith was legit.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean, I think she was so brainwashed

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Speaker 2: that like she was willing to I don't know, though,

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Speaker 2: when when Jill really comes down to it, maybe people

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Speaker 2: are like, fuck this shit, Like people you know, and

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Speaker 2: the Bible renounced Jesus that were his disciples after it

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Speaker 2: got kind of hard, So who knows.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that historically accurate book.

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Speaker 6: We all just saying, okay, but you gotta think that

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Speaker 6: even if it's just because she doesn't want to go

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Speaker 6: to jail, that's still a first step of like that

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Speaker 6: is concrete evidence that it's a big deal that she's

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Speaker 6: presenting to the world.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that she took it to begin with. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if he knew. I mean, it's interesting that she

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Speaker 2: was recording them.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it will be very interesting to see what happens

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Speaker 1: from here. I hope that she finds her way. Are

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Speaker 1: we mad that she isn't getting jail time though, or

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Speaker 1: potentially not getting right?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't fucking know. It's so hard

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Speaker 2: to draw that line. However, I think she was like

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Speaker 2: enjoying her power a little bit more than some of

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Speaker 2: the other people. She's a little dark in her own

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Speaker 2: her own right. I think she was definitely scary. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean she did a lot of horrible things.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you can't you can't not face any consequence

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Speaker 1: for doing those horrible things.

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Speaker 5: She's like my archetype of woman that I'm the most

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Speaker 5: scared of.

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Speaker 1: What is that archetype?

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Speaker 5: Just like, oh god, how do I even explain it?

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Speaker 1: Like like smiley and positive but like secretly yeah brand

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Speaker 1: you yeah, and like yeah, he has.

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Speaker 2: A place, just like so sure of herself, but you're like,

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Speaker 2: I think your ideas are crazy, so I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: why you're so confident in them, you know.

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Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, I see. That's what following a cult eader

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Speaker 1: will do to you, though. It will give you utterly

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Speaker 1: unearned confidence. That's true in your beliefs.

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Speaker 5: Also, being on a TV show will help that as well.

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Speaker 1: That's true, although you'd be surprised how many insecure actors

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 5: Well, I definitely don't think it's a secure trait to

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Speaker 5: do that.

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Speaker 3: Shit.

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Speaker 5: What about you, what's the cultiest thing that happened to

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Speaker 5: you this week?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man. I did this music video shoot

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Speaker 1: yesterday that was for my new single Hello and Yea.

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Speaker 1: I also directed it, and it's the first music video

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Speaker 1: of John in a couple of years. And it's also

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Speaker 1: the biggest undertaking I've ever taken on, So my brain

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Speaker 1: has been completely consumed with that. It was so fucking hard,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, I think the footage came out amazing.

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Speaker 1: So the only cultist thing I can really think of

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Speaker 1: for this week is how being a director is kind

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Speaker 1: of like being a short term cult leader. M That's

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Speaker 1: all I got. I like what you say goes, you

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Speaker 1: are the boss. However, good directors do not behave like

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Speaker 1: cult leaders. They behave like collaborators and friends. So I

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Speaker 1: don't even know if it counts. I like to think

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Speaker 1: that I am collaborating because everyone on this I was

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Speaker 1: so fucking talented, contributing so much and working so hard.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I can't wait to see it.

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Speaker 1: However, there is a bit of a cult motif in

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Speaker 1: the video, so actually, why don't I just make that

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Speaker 1: the cultia thing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you want to tell us a little bit

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Speaker 2: about it? Or is it going to be a surprise.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a surprise. But the theme is

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Speaker 1: revenge and how it does not actually fulfill us or

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Speaker 1: bring us the peace that we think it will.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, except when you're young, Like I remember being really

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Speaker 2: bullied in eighth grade and then leaving that school and

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Speaker 2: coming back looking super cool the next year and feeling

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Speaker 2: really good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but that's like healthy revenge, because that's just like

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Speaker 1: self betterment and like being your hottest, best self.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but then I feel like I was mean to

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Speaker 5: the guys who were mean to me, Like I got revenge,

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Speaker 5: you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, that is I could

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Speaker 1: see why that would feel satisfying.

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Speaker 2: But it is just the kind of thing that, like,

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Speaker 2: when you're younger, it's fun to do things that just

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Speaker 2: don't work out the same way when you're older, And

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Speaker 2: that's part of the fun and weird part about getting old,

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Speaker 2: older is like, now here's the part where I get revenge.

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Speaker 5: And then you're like, wait, that's not happening.

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Speaker 1: Why, yeah, yeah, it hits different. You're like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is an unhealthy instinct. Actually, yeah, isn't as like sassy

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Speaker 1: and cute as I've thought.

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Speaker 6: No, this is bad.

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Speaker 5: This is really bad.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, we got April.

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Speaker 5: Snow, yeah, let's talk to April.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go do it.

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Speaker 7: Do you want to know what it's like to hang

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Speaker 7: out with Ms thirteen Nel Salvador? How the Russian mafia

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Speaker 7: fought battles all over Brooklyn in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 8: Well, what about that time I got lost in the

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Speaker 8: Burmese jungle hunting in the world's biggest me f lab

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Speaker 8: Or why the Japanese Kuza have all those crazy dragon tattoos.

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Speaker 8: I'm Sean Williams.

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Speaker 7: And I'm Danny Gould, and we're the host of the

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Speaker 7: Underworld podcast. We're journalists that have traveled all over reporting

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Speaker 7: on dangerous people and places, and every week we'll be

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Speaker 7: bringing you a new story about organized crime from all

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Speaker 7: over the world.

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Speaker 8: We know this stuff because we've been there, we've seen it,

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Speaker 8: and we've got the near misses and embarrassing tales to

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Speaker 8: go with it. We'll mix in reporting with our own

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Speaker 8: experiences in the field, and we'll throw in some bad

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Speaker 8: jokes while we're at it.

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Speaker 7: The Underworld podcast explores the criminal underworld that affec all

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Speaker 7: of our lives, whether we know it or not. Available

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Speaker 7: wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I think recently there's been a movement within Mormonism to

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Speaker 1: stop the practice of making kids confess directly to the

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Speaker 1: bishop alone in a room.

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Speaker 3: Good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that idea was so normal to me

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Speaker 1: growing up that it did not even occur to me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, yeah, like that you should a

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Speaker 1: grown man, right, a grown man about your sexual urges

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Speaker 1: alone in a room with him. That's so fucking weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it sounds so much more specific and detailed

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Speaker 1: and like and.

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Speaker 3: It goes it goes beyond that too in scientology, because

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Speaker 3: a lot of the kids that I grew up with,

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Speaker 3: so I wasn't the model of scientology kid. I didn't

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Speaker 3: go like doing all my courses and learning everything so

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Speaker 3: I could be an auditor. I didn't care and I

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Speaker 3: didn't want to do it. But like one of my

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Speaker 3: very good friends was you know, that was his way

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Speaker 3: of getting affirmation, you know, and from like age twelve. Actually,

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Speaker 3: a couple of the guys I know, from about age

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Speaker 3: twelve were auditing other people and when they went in

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Speaker 3: the sea org and they were teenage auditors. One of

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Speaker 3: them was like a thirteen fourteen year old auditor and

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Speaker 3: so his job was to find out all this information

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Speaker 3: from adults. And so even that is so abusive, Like

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Speaker 3: you know, he feels like he's you know, up here.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's like he's the boss. He's like a

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Speaker 3: little baby boss, you who can do all this stuff

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Speaker 3: with adults. And you know, but in reality, you're normalizing

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Speaker 3: a thirteen or fourteen year old asking a grown adult

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Speaker 3: about their sexual history and talking it through with them,

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Speaker 3: Like it's like it's okay for him to ask them

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Speaker 3: questions about any of that type of activity, you know.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes the confessionals, you know, they're talking about pedophilia.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god with a child.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 5: Wow, So inappropriate on every level.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's still happening. That's what's crazy, Like there's

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Speaker 3: no change. That's still part of the program, Like there's

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Speaker 3: been zero trailing. There's been some changes in the way

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Speaker 3: that they present themselves to the public, for sure, and

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Speaker 3: specifically in regards to things like homosexuality. It's like, no,

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Speaker 3: we're not anti lgbt We're supportive of anybody who wants to.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, but you won't allow gay people to

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Speaker 3: take certain services, so like, like you still think that

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Speaker 3: they're what we called aberated. The words like abnormal basically

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Speaker 3: you're not you're off of like the normal sort of

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Speaker 3: path you have, and what we call an aberration. I

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Speaker 3: was to describe it the way that it was described

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Speaker 3: me when I was younger, was like normally you go

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Speaker 3: from point A to point B, but like an aberration,

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Speaker 3: like you would go off track.

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Speaker 1: And the word aberration is not a nice vote, Like

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Speaker 1: there's something is an aberration. It's like you don't want

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Speaker 1: it to happen, or it's unwelcome according to the dictionary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that is a fuck up term use. I actually

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Speaker 1: also had no idea that there was any anti LGBTQ

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Speaker 1: sentiment in scientology because I just assume that that was

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Speaker 1: a Christian thing and that comes from like Bible stuff

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But like.

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Speaker 3: You know, no, no, it's very specific. And if you

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Speaker 3: my friend Nora described it better than I could ever do.

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Speaker 3: And if anyone that listens to those, or if the

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Speaker 3: two of you feel like I feel like it, if

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Speaker 3: you google, I think it's called Why you Can't Be

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Speaker 3: Gay in Scientology? I want to say that's the name

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Speaker 3: of it. Her name is Nora Crest, and I'll look

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Speaker 3: it up before we finish and give you the specific spot.

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Speaker 3: It's a really perfect video that really describes her experience

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Speaker 3: as a gay woman who was not out at the time,

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Speaker 3: and just why she walks you through specifics in the

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Speaker 3: text that says, here's what the text says, this is

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Speaker 3: what the book says, and this is what those you

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Speaker 3: know how that's defined within Scientology. Why you Can't Be

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Speaker 3: Gay in Scientology is the name of the video. Growing

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Speaker 3: Up Scientology is the name of her YouTube channel, and

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Speaker 3: really breaks it down.

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Speaker 1: I was curious about the addiction stuff as it pertains

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Speaker 1: to Scientology, because I feel like what I often hear is, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're crazy, but they'll get people clean. And for you,

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Speaker 1: as a you know, as an alcoholic, a recovering alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: what is your take on that.

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Speaker 3: The Church of Scientology has a program called narcan On

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Speaker 3: and they also have what I was describing the purification rundown.

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Speaker 3: They're supposed to help people to get clean. Narcanon utilizes

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Speaker 3: the purification rundown. I've known a number of people who've

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Speaker 3: gone to the NARCAN on part. I even worked for

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Speaker 3: the americ and One program when I was a teenager

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Speaker 3: at their international office in Hollywood. And as someone who's

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Speaker 3: been in twelve Step for twelve years, I personally think

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Speaker 3: that it's a load of crop. I don't agree with

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Speaker 3: the way that they treat alcoholism and drug addiction. Could

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Speaker 3: somebody get cleaned simply from upstaining? Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 3: that's what detoc centers do for you. That's what rehabs

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Speaker 3: do for you. Sort of gets you off something for

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Speaker 3: the moment, and maybe you're going to stay clean and

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Speaker 3: maybe you're not. But there's a whole lot of relapse

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Speaker 3: and in addition to the relapse. It's one of the

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Speaker 3: things I love about twelve Step. And it's really interesting

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Speaker 3: because I come from a cult background, so I'm like

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Speaker 3: very very turned off by cult teeth and so getting

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Speaker 3: into twelve Step, my cult radar went off too. It's like, well,

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Speaker 3: am I supposed to you know, Like, how do you

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Speaker 3: navigate a space that tells you you have to turn

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Speaker 3: your will and your life over the care of God.

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Speaker 3: You know, how the hell am I supposed to freaking

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Speaker 3: do this should be? You know? But at the end

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Speaker 3: of the day, just like anything else in my life,

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Speaker 3: I feel like there are ways to utilize a program

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Speaker 3: that makes sense for me. It might not make sense

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Speaker 3: for somebody else. Like I'm allowed to baby step in

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Speaker 3: and kind of sit on the sidelines and do things

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Speaker 3: slowly and decide what that means to turn my will

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Speaker 3: in my life over in my world, and what the

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Speaker 3: word God means for me. And if I want to

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Speaker 3: use the word God or change it out to a

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Speaker 3: different word like power or mother nature, I'm allowed to

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Speaker 3: do that. Like I don't have to follow it the

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Speaker 3: way that everybody else would follow it, right. And the

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Speaker 3: nice thing about AA and that type of twelve stop

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Speaker 3: is there's not anybody regulating me to tell me.

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Speaker 1: I have to follow it about it, right.

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Speaker 3: There are suggestions, and I'm allowed to take the suggestions

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Speaker 3: however i'd like and talk it through with someone and

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Speaker 3: find someone who maybe has a similar experience to mine

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Speaker 3: to try to have them sponsor me or be my

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Speaker 3: you know, pick up the phone to call rather than

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Speaker 3: someone who's experience is very, very different than mine. I've

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Speaker 3: met a lot of people in twelve Steps who are

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Speaker 3: very like super Christian, and they're not my people, like

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Speaker 3: generally speaking, like that's not the person who I'm going

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Speaker 3: to find spiritual guidance from. Or I'm sure you understand

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Speaker 3: what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the most interesting things I've learned from doing

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Speaker 2: this podcast and speaking to a lot of experts because

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Speaker 2: I'm also in program is just finding more than one thing,

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Speaker 2: like not just having one thing be the only thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, Like, if you're in the program, maybe you're

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Speaker 2: also really into a specific kind of yoga and you

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Speaker 2: have a therapist that you really like, and like you're

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Speaker 2: not just getting all of your information from one source.

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Speaker 5: So that's been really cool for me to process.

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Speaker 3: I went to this U church when I was pretty

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Speaker 3: recently out of scientific I want to say, like a

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Speaker 3: couple of years.

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Speaker 1: You Knowitarian Universalist. Is that what that is, right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a non theistic church. For anyone who does not know.

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Speaker 3: What that is, yeah, non theistic, and I got involved.

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Speaker 3: I went there in the first place because I was

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Speaker 3: screening a documentary called Misrepresentation, which was about the lack

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Speaker 3: of women in politics and how the media plays a

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Speaker 3: part in you know, young girls thinking that that's not

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Speaker 3: an option for them or not recognizing that cool. It

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Speaker 3: was a really interesting documentary and I felt very passionate

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Speaker 3: about the topic and I was trying to find a

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Speaker 3: place to screen it and one of my friends who was,

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Speaker 3: you know, helping screen it with me. We were all

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Speaker 3: kind of doing this together as a team with four

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Speaker 3: of us. She was like, oh, you know, like sometimes

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Speaker 3: they take my kids to this church and maybe they

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Speaker 3: would allow us to have this bag atrium. Anyway, they

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Speaker 3: were not just willing to let us screen it there.

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Speaker 3: They were super supportive of the message, like pushed it

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Speaker 3: out to their congregation, invited everybody. So take it is

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Speaker 3: for us like really interesting. I was like, that's interesting

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Speaker 3: for like a church to take almost like a political

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Speaker 3: stance on something. And I was like, curious, what is

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Speaker 3: their message all about? Like what are let's deal with this?

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Speaker 3: So I went to one of their masses on Sunday

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Speaker 3: and it was a really interesting mass and a really

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Speaker 3: interesting message and the majority of it was, like you said,

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Speaker 3: non theistic, very like, wherever you're at in your journey,

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Speaker 3: whatever you believe, or if you believe nothing at all,

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Speaker 3: you're totally welcome here. There are a lot of people

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Speaker 3: there with kids that families with particular families with children

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Speaker 3: that might have been same sex couples or probably just

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Speaker 3: not welcomed at other churches or a lot of other churches,

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Speaker 3: and super welcoming community. I never felt forced. I've gone

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Speaker 3: back there so many times over the years. It's been

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Speaker 3: quite a while. But when I just feel like that,

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Speaker 3: you know, urge to have some sort of spiritual or

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Speaker 3: church experience or community for a little while, and I

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Speaker 3: can come in, I was pleased. I've never ever felt

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Speaker 3: pressured to show up again or to join another part

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Speaker 3: of the church and get more involved, or maybe if

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Speaker 3: I was there more frequently i would, But so far

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Speaker 3: for me, that's been like the closest I've felt to

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Speaker 3: any sort of like wanting to have any other religious

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Speaker 3: type experience since I left, because you know, and I'm searching.

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Speaker 3: I've been searching, and the older I get, you know,

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Speaker 3: the inching towards forty and probably around midway into my

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Speaker 3: life at this point, I feel like as a teen

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Speaker 3: and even like coming out of scientology and stuff, I

366
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Speaker 3: was very adamantly against and didn't want to hear anybody's

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Speaker 3: ideas and felt like there was no right answer. And

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Speaker 3: I still kind of feel like there's no right answer.

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Speaker 3: But as I get older, it's like I just I

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Speaker 3: like the idea of finding something I feel connected to.

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Speaker 3: I like the idea of trying to connect internally, like spiritually,

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Speaker 3: to something, you know. I consider myself an atheist for

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Speaker 3: years when I don't really enjoy the idea of there

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Speaker 3: being nothing. And when I say nothing, I don't mean

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Speaker 3: like heaven or health because I don't believe in heaven

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Speaker 3: or health. I don't believe in any of that. I

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Speaker 3: don't and maybe it's real and maybe it's not. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not here to tell somebody what their belief system

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Speaker 3: should be, but it just seems far fetched to me.

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Speaker 3: And I also don't know nothing happens when I die.

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Speaker 3: I don't know where my energy goes. I don't know

382
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Speaker 3: like how it you know, evolves, and what part it

383
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 3: plays in the world around me, Like all of those things,

384
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Speaker 3: like religion exists because we don't have answers for big questions.

385
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Speaker 3: We don't know where we come from. We don't know

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Speaker 3: where we go, and we don't know why we're here,

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Speaker 3: and so.

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Speaker 5: And now I need therapy. That's a really good way

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Speaker 5: of putting it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, but it's true. Like and religion, it answers

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Speaker 3: those questions, but it doesn't give us facts. It gives

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Speaker 3: us faith. And so when your faith is shaken and

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Speaker 3: you start questioning those quote unquote facts you were told

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Speaker 3: and realizing that they're not facts, they're faith based, then

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00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, really challenges you in a lot of ways,

396
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Speaker 3: or at least mean I don't to speak for anyone else,

397
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Speaker 3: but very challenging for me to like have my whole

398
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 3: world wrapped up in something and believes wholeheartedly when I

399
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 3: was told. You know, like this is what happened. You

400
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 3: lived before this life, you're living after this life. You've

401
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 3: lived many billions of years. You're an eternal being, and

402
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,200
Speaker 3: you know you're going to take many different body forms.

403
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: I've known you in past lives. You chose this family,

404
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 3: like things like that, which can actually be damaging information.

405
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Speaker 3: You know, like you chose this family. Okay, when there's

406
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Speaker 3: abuse in your family, and that's pretty you feel responsible

407
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Speaker 3: for your own abuse. God right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, first of all, I've been to a Unitarian

409
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Speaker 1: Universalist church as well well, and I really enjoyed it.

410
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Speaker 1: And the only reason I didn't go back was because

411
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Speaker 1: it's weird to just show up to things alone, which

412
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Speaker 1: I find myself doing a lot, like whether it's with

413
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Speaker 1: social justice or like like activist stuff or whatever. I

414
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: feel like no one ever wants to go with me

415
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Speaker 1: to shit, So I'm like, hello, it is I. It's

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Speaker 1: well Will I'm.

417
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Speaker 3: Such the one that's like, hell yeah, Cony, why not

418
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Speaker 3: I've got a ELL's going on Iday because I have

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Speaker 3: nothing else.

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Speaker 1: But before you were recording, you were saying how you're

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Speaker 1: like a doer like you act, and I'm very similar,

422
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Speaker 1: like if I have an idea, I'll just do it.

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Speaker 1: And I don't find that a lot of people are

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Speaker 1: game for stuff, so so that sounds great, But no,

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Speaker 1: it was really cool to experience that, just the process

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Speaker 1: of figuring it out with people and like wanting something

427
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Speaker 1: more out of this life than just this day to

428
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: day slog of our jobs or whatever, without there having

429
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: to be a list of answers for exactly what's going on,

430
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Speaker 1: Like the idea of just exploring that in a community

431
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Speaker 1: is something that seems really cool to me. Do you mind,

432
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Speaker 1: if you have time, could you quickly tell us about

433
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Speaker 1: your experience leaving and being shunned.

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Speaker 3: Sure. I really left the organization when I was twenty six.

435
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Speaker 3: That's when I left, like told them, I don't want

436
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Speaker 3: to do this anymore. That's when I went back to school.

437
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: That's also when I got sober timeline wise. But I

438
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 3: still kind of towed a certain line with the organization

439
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: in that I wouldn't speak out publicly against them. I

440
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: was also actually very defensive, even though I didn't believe

441
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 3: I was a non believer, but I would defend I'm

442
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 3: sure you have to have had this experience, ladies, because

443
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 3: I feel like it's a common thread and the people

444
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 3: I know who've grown up that way. It's hard not

445
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 3: to just like get defensive, especially before you've like fully

446
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 3: stepped back, you know, and right when you're still kind

447
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 3: of like just with your toe out and you're questioning it.

448
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 3: But if someone else says something while you know, they're

449
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: attacking you everything that you know and all the people

450
00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 3: you love, right right, So so yeah, I was like

451
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 3: that for quite some time, and I continued trying to

452
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: like I was explaining earlier, get the affirmation from people

453
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: around me until I was twenty six. Even when I

454
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: left at twenty six, I was working for a scientologists

455
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 3: at the time, and the affirmation was that I wanted

456
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 3: was from him and his you know, business colleagues, and

457
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: I was an executive at their company, and they wanted,

458
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 3: like executives to uphold a certain type of standard, you know,

459
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: and they wanted us to be active with the church.

460
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 3: And you're not really allowed to do that, you know,

461
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 3: you can't just force your employees to be religious. So

462
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: I was still doing that to get that affirmation. And

463
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: my brother was in the Sea org and he still

464
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: is one of my brothers, middle one of my three

465
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 3: biological brothers, and he also I felt like, was getting

466
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 3: kind of in trouble because of me, but not being

467
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: you know, as dung ho and like with go with

468
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 3: the program as everyone else. So a lot of the

469
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: reason why I was on course to begin with was

470
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 3: because of those factors, and it was I had the

471
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: realization like I didn't want to continue doing it, and

472
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 3: I finally just communicated it both to my boss and

473
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 3: to the organization where I was going and taking my

474
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 3: studies that was in Pasadena, and so I was going

475
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 3: there three times a week generally to do studies in

476
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 3: the evening, and that was like the minimum requirement in

477
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 3: scientology and I hated it. I really wanted to go

478
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 3: back to school. There was a part of me that

479
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 3: was like, I have been doing marketing for so long,

480
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 3: I'd like to get a degree in it, and I

481
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: don't have the time to do that. And I'd like

482
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 3: to spend the time and money that I'm going to

483
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 3: spend on courses on go use it at college, which

484
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: is what I did pretty much immediately after leaving. But

485
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: I'm really resonated by the way with the book Educated.

486
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: If you have not read it, which you probably have.

487
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: No, No, no, Lola, Lola, I thought you talked to

488
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: me about it once.

489
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 5: No.

490
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: No, Oh, okay.

491
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 3: She's a fundamentalist Mormon that wrote that book. I cannot

492
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: think of the woman's name right now. Sarah Yes, Westover Yes.

493
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: And she really talks about the lack of education that

494
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: she had growing up in this fundamentalist world, and like

495
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: doomsday type world, she ends up going to bring him young.

496
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 3: There's a whole lot of education she ends up getting.

497
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: And I don't like her in the whole thing, but

498
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 3: her life experiences at the beginning are no school, no doctors, like,

499
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: no real society outside of her family and like a

500
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: couple of similar families and friends. It is Oh my god,

501
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 3: I was crying in like the first chapter. I'm pretty

502
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: sure of that book. But it's a really well written

503
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: and very very good book. And she is very educated

504
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: now and I understand like the quest for wanting to

505
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 3: learn outside of your bubble.

506
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you left the Sea Organization at fifteen.

507
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: And then I left Scientology at twenty six, okay, and

508
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 3: then I got shunned out of Scientology a two years back.

509
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: That was during the second season of Leah Remani's show

510
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: Scientology and the Aftermath, And I was on that show,

511
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 3: but this was before I went on the show. I

512
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: was just on a very brief part of it at

513
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: the very finale of the show. But my friend, a

514
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: very close friend of mine, went on season two and

515
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: she is a long stories, won't get into it, but

516
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: she lost both her husband and her sister to suicide.

517
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 3: And her husband that happened when she was in the

518
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 3: Sea Organization, and so was he when it happened, they

519
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: were very young she was either twenty one or twenty two.

520
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 3: I think she was twenty one and he was twenty two.

521
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: Scientology didn't really acknowledge what happened, and in fact, they

522
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 3: made up a story about what happened and told people that,

523
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: you know, he had basically gone a wall or they

524
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: use the term blown, like he had left and not

525
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: come back. And so like Marie had just lost her

526
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: husband and was being sort of almost treated like her.

527
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 3: You know, her husband was like this trader, right, there's

528
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 3: this sympathy for somebody, even had people known that he

529
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 3: had committed suicide. I don't see there being sympathy for

530
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 3: her over that, but there wasn't any sympathy for her.

531
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 3: And then later on her sister, who was very close

532
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 3: friends with as well and always been very close actually

533
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: with her whole family, she ended up taking her own

534
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: life as well. And I mean, through all this, their

535
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: family has just been through a lot. Marie was working

536
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: for a man who had been declared or excommunicated from Scientology,

537
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 3: and the church was trying to get her to leave

538
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: her job, which was a good job, and was taking

539
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: paying her bills and taking care of her, and she

540
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: was just like, no, I have kids and mortgage. I'm

541
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 3: not going to do that. And eventually it resulted in

542
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: her losing her mom. Well, it resulted in her getting

543
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: declared a suppressive person as well or excommunicated.

544
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: Because she wouldn't leave her job because her boss was

545
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: not a scientologist anymore.

546
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 3: Right, basically that's yew. Scientologists would tell you there's more

547
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: to it than that, but that boils it down nicely.

548
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: So she was going on the show, and she was

549
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 3: going on the show to discuss Aaron's death. She didn't

550
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: bring all the other stuff into it. It was very

551
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: specifically focused around her first husband and what happened, and

552
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: she had a lot of I think guilt about not

553
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: having like properly given him any sort of like real

554
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 3: funeral or acknowledging what happened in any real way. And

555
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: I think that she also just like felt like it

556
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: was something that the truth should eventually be told, and

557
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 3: this was like, this is her first husband and she

558
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 3: loved him very much anyway, you know, I know that

559
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: there's just a lot of emotions that come along with

560
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: losing somebody in that way, or losing someone in general,

561
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: but particularly in such a very traumatic way. I of

562
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: course supported her in going on the show, and she's

563
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: just a friend, and she was also one of my

564
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: best friend's little sisters. And I felt like some sort

565
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:45,239
Speaker 3: of like almost protective vibe there, or sister Lee vibe like,

566
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: and she was just having a really rough time. It

567
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: was about to air the next day, and she had

568
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: taken some time off of work because her anxiety was

569
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 3: really high. And I think it was like the thought

570
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 3: of like that being like the nail in the coffin,

571
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 3: of her relationship with her mom, and just a lot

572
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 3: of stuff, and her and her mom already weren't talking.

573
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: That was prior to this show. And I don't think

574
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: she would have gone on the show honestly if she

575
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 3: already hadn't suffered all the consequences, you know, they were

576
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: already being levied at her. So I was talking to her,

577
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: and I felt like some urge to just like make

578
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: a post about it on my Facebook page, and if

579
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: you ever read it, you would be like, that's the thing,

580
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: Like it's so diplomatic. It's like, hey, you know, you

581
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: might not know I grew up in scientology because I

582
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: don't really talk about it a lot, but I did,

583
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: and I'm not you know, I don't follow that those

584
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: teachings anymore. But I've always been supportive of my friends

585
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: and family who do, and I'm also supportive of the

586
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: ones who chose a different path. And I essentially said, like,

587
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: my friend is going on this television show, and I'm

588
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: appealing to my friends and family that are still involved

589
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: to not judge somebody until you've heard their side of

590
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: the story. Her character is in credit. She's a wonderful person, friend, wife, sister,

591
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 3: like mother, and I don't need to sit here and

592
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 3: defend her character. But you know, anyone who knows her

593
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: knows like give her basically the benefit of the doubt

594
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: and listen to her experience. That did not go over

595
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: very well at all. And I essentially, like, within probably hours,

596
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 3: but definitely within twenty four hours, hundreds of like scientology

597
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 3: Facebook people had deleted me, blocked me, or sending messages

598
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: to delete me, block me. Wo. My brother stopped talking

599
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: to me. Well, first he started talking to me very

600
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: derogatorily and just making me feel really bad, and then

601
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: he just eventually disappeared and hasn't spoken to me since.

602
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: And my dad stopped talking to me. Some people tried

603
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: to get me to take it down, but it was like,

604
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: this is insane, like you're at I haven't been. I

605
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: also at that point hadn't been a scientologist for like

606
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 3: nine years, right, it was like everyone knew I wasn't

607
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 3: a scientologist, Like why are you like impressing these weird

608
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: rules upon me knowing them? And I don't subscribe to

609
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: your belief system like I don't then also get bound

610
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: by the rules.

611
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: Why did people not like disconnect from you when you left?

612
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: I was towing that line. I still was supportive of

613
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: people's right to do their thing, not that I ever

614
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: really changed my tune on that. I mean, I don't

615
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 3: care what people do. I'm not here to like police

616
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: your religious and spiritual beliefs, like I don't care what

617
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: you believe. I care if you do harm to some people,

618
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: though I care if you know. I'm not allowed to

619
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: also speak my spiritual beliefs or my thoughts or my

620
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: experiences like those things aren't fair. So but back then

621
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: I was just not speaking my own thoughts, feelings, experiences,

622
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: not sticking up for the friends who had their trauma

623
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: or their thoughts and experiences and feelings, you know, almost

624
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: like don't ask, don't tell kind of mentality, like I

625
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 3: just don't say anything and you won't get in trouble

626
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: and the consequences are very real. I posted later than

627
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 3: so then that went by and on a bunch of stuff,

628
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: and my mom got pulled into like a basically like

629
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: a court of ethics there or whatever they call it,

630
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 3: a committee of evidence, and you know, to prove to

631
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 3: her what a pos I am and to get her

632
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 3: to disconnect from me. During all of that time, I

633
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: definitely made a much more very pointed and one of

634
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: the things is like, one, you can't be critical of

635
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: Scientology publicly. They can't denounce the church. So I made

636
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: a point to do both of those things. In the

637
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: next post I made, I was like, I want nothing

638
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 3: to do with this organization. They're abusive and they're awful,

639
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: and here's the affected time on me in my life,

640
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: and here's my story. And I ended it with a

641
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 3: quote from a Jonestown survivor that talks about basically alluding

642
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: to the fact that Scientology is a cult and using

643
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 3: those words about Jonestown to point out that that easily

644
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 3: could have been written about Scientology, you know, And that

645
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 3: was pretty much it. That was the nail in my coffin,

646
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: so to speak, as far as people having no other

647
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: option but to either choose my side or choose the

648
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: other side, and most of them chose the other side,

649
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 3: but the ones that didn't are super incredible relationships that

650
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: I have.

651
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: And what about your mom? What happened with your mom?

652
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 3: I will say that we are no longer speaking, but

653
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: I don't know if that'll be forever. And that decision

654
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: was made by me. Okay, it just felt like I

655
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: was being gaslet And I don't like blame levied at me.

656
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: I don't want a finger pointed my way. It should

657
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 3: be pointed toward the actual abuser. And when you refuse

658
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: to acknowledge that something is abuse, and you refuse to acknowledge,

659
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: or you tell somebody or or allude to the fact

660
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: that everything is their fault, you know. I mean, what

661
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: I basically said to her was if someone was physically

662
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: abusing me or sexually abusing me, those things would be

663
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: very obvious to you, and I don't think you would

664
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 3: join in or pretend to be a part of that,

665
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 3: you know. So when it's emotional or psychological abuse, it's

666
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 3: harder to see, but it's just as painful and when

667
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: you're pretending to join in or you were actively joining

668
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: in those abusive type of activities like shunning of your child.

669
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 3: It's not cool, Like it's not something that it feels toxic,

670
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 3: and that doesn't feel like a relationship. That's a very

671
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: positive relationship. There's so much more to it. I won't

672
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 3: even get into it. But unfortunately, right now we're in

673
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: this kind of a weird place and we haven't spoken

674
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 3: for some time, and I just hope for change, and

675
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: not for change in the way that we speak, like,

676
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: not for us hanging out again, for real change. And

677
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 3: that's the thing that never happens. And if maybe it

678
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 3: will someday, and maybe it won't, and if it doesn't,

679
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: then I'm not going to probably have much of a

680
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: relationship with her right because it just feels painful.

681
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry that your loved ones and so many

682
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: people in your life did that. I mean, that's horrible. Yeah,

683
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 1: that must have been a very traumatic process.

684
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: It's definitely not more a fun process. Yeah, I will

685
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 3: say that there's a lot of relief in that. I mean,

686
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 3: the day I made like a real post, it was

687
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 3: relieving the people who left my life, like the friends

688
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 3: in particular who left my life I really don't miss.

689
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: And you know, there were a couple that were very

690
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: close friends of mine, and all it for me was

691
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: affirm the fact that they weren't very close friends of mine.

692
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: Like I mean, just like I stuck up for my friend,

693
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: I would have stuck up for any of them as well. Yeah,

694
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 3: I would never have passed that kind of judgment or

695
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 3: treated somebody in that way, not at this point in

696
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: my life. Not that there aren't times in my life

697
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 3: where I was on the other side, and I've tried

698
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 3: to make apologies and amends in those cases. But you know,

699
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: if one of those people came around and said, hey,

700
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 3: you know what I really affed up and I treated

701
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 3: you poorly and I'm so sorry, and I've like opened

702
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: my eyes up, and I would I'm sure be very

703
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: happy to have a conversation and like, yeah, I think

704
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 3: I would very I would be very happy to have

705
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 3: a conversation and try to repair those relationships. And I've

706
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 3: had some that I've been able to repair that I

707
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 3: treated poorly. You know, one of my best best best

708
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 3: friends that I really treated badly and I've had a

709
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 3: lot of regrets about so it sucks, and then it's

710
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 3: also great. It's like there's two sides to every coin,

711
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 3: and the honestly, the positives for me are a lot

712
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: greater than the negatives. I wouldn't do it differently. I

713
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't change it. I wouldn't say something differently. I would

714
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: still have done the right thing that I believe I

715
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: did the right thing, And I would have still done

716
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 3: the right thing. I seriously like, I wouldn't go back

717
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 3: into it differently, even knowing the consequences, right, because the

718
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: friendships I do have, the relationships I've made outside of

719
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 3: that with people who were never involved in it, and

720
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: the relationships I have with those people who were involved

721
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 3: in it and have evolved into a different version of

722
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: themselves outside of it, those are priceless friendships because they're authentic.

723
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 3: And I never had authentic relationships in scientology because everyone

724
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: is supposed to tell on you for everything and whistle

725
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 3: blow you, and you can't. You can't just like be like, Wow,

726
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: I'm having this thing in my life I'm struggling with

727
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: and I'm wondering about my religion, or like I'm struggling

728
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 3: in my mirror, or like if you talked about your

729
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 3: family or this or that. Your business is everyone's business, right,

730
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: so there are an authentic relationships.

731
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: There's no trust in that. There's no freedom in that, right.

732
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 3: So I was trying to find this darn quote for

733
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: you guys.

734
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: Really in can we help you google?

735
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, her name is Deborah dbo r ah Lee. And

736
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: if you type like when family and friends are used

737
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: or something like that, Okay, here, yeah, read it. Let's see,

738
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 3: I'll read.

739
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: The whole paragraph. Okay, here we go. When your own

740
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: thoughts are forbidden, when your questions are not allowed, and

741
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: our doubts are punished, when contacts with friendship outside of

742
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: the organization are censored, we are being abused for the

743
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: ends never justify the means. When our heartaches knowing we

744
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever

745
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: forbidden if we leave. We are in danger when we

746
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment,

747
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those

748
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: we have come to love. We are in a cult.

749
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: If there's any lesson to be learned, it is that

750
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: an ideal can never be brought about by fear, abuse,

751
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: and the threat of retribution. When family and friends are

752
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: used as a weapon in order to force us to

753
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: stay in an organization, something has gone terribly wrong.

754
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 5: Oh that makes me want to cry.

755
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 3: That's really good. And I put that at the end

756
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: of my post. And that didn't go over well with

757
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: scientologists because I can't because I can't imagine that they

758
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: couldn't draw the parallel, right, Like, there's just no way

759
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 3: that they can't draw that parallel, you know, So whatever,

760
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: you know, I.

761
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: Would love to be in the minds of someone who

762
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: unfronted you after reading that, and I would love to see, like,

763
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: was there a little seed planted and they just like

764
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: shut down?

765
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 3: There was? And I know for a fact there were

766
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: some seeds planted for people around me, because I've talked

767
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 3: to some of those people, and some of those people

768
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: have since left, and some of those people might be

769
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: sort of quietly on now, you know, there are a

770
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: lot of people quietly gone. I wish they could just

771
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 3: like rise up one day say something out loud, but

772
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 3: they're worried about that. They have the fear of retribution.

773
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 3: Their friends and family are used to stop them from

774
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 3: being critical of scientology because they don't want to lose

775
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: their friends and family, and I get it. I was there.

776
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: It's so funny how scary it is till it happens,

777
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 3: and then it's like, okay, well that happened, and you know,

778
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: it sucks in certain ways. Really the only relationships that

779
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 3: I had any like frustration about, or the one with

780
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: my dad, which was already troubled, and it just sucks

781
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 3: because he passed away shortly after this happened, and I

782
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 3: didn't get to have any sort of reconciliation with him,

783
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 3: so it's very final. So like that relationship probably is

784
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 3: the worst one, right. I just wish that I could somehow,

785
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 3: but whatever, you know, hindsight is twenty twenty. There is

786
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: no going back, and he isn't around anymore. So although

787
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 3: he's on my piano you see next to the teak

788
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: he had, he hangs out on the piano because he's

789
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 3: he's a musician. That's where he would have hung out.

790
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 3: And I have his guitar in the corner little pieces,

791
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: But unfortunately I don't get to have like a conversation

792
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: where he responds back to me anymore. And I hadn't

793
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: had one of those in about a year so prior

794
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 3: to his death, and so that one's the tough one,

795
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: the one with my brother who's in the sea Org

796
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 3: and my other brother, I mean my brother's in general,

797
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 3: like the relationships there, you know, part of family and

798
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 3: part of like friends that we grew up with, Like

799
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: that part of our relationship just becomes nostalgia, I feel like,

800
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: you know, because at some point, especially if you don't

801
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 3: align on big issues, at some point, it just like

802
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 3: what do you have to talk about? But the past

803
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: right right right, you're not building any real relationships. So

804
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 3: Jeff is in the Seoerg, right, the one who stopped

805
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: talking to me, and like we were close growing up,

806
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 3: but we haven't been close for a really long time,

807
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: and it makes it really easy. You know, cults are

808
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 3: coercive and they're controlling, and they control a whole lot

809
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 3: about our lives, our thought process, our language, our morals

810
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: or values, like all these things are controlled. Like you know,

811
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: for probably both of you, you know, what you wore

812
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: was controlled, right, Like you're not allowed to look a

813
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 3: certain way or act a certain way with a man

814
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: or right. So, and there's all of these like little

815
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 3: things that we're just so used to doing them or

816
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 3: being told that that's how it is that we don't

817
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: have any other whatever we don't. It's hard to recognize

818
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 3: how controlling it is. And even in abusive relationships, if

819
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 3: you've ever had an abusive relationship, you know there's a pattern,

820
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 3: and there's patterns and systems of control as well, and

821
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,959
Speaker 3: an abusive relationship is one of those systems. And it's

822
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 3: to remove you from your environment. And with like the

823
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 3: Sea organization, which is like the most indoctrinated you get,

824
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 3: you're removed from your environment. You're in this new environment,

825
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: and everything is controlled for you, what you eat that day,

826
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: what you're supposed to wear, how you can act, when

827
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 3: you can leave, if you're allowed to speak to your family,

828
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 3: Like everything is controlled. And so when my brother is like,

829
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: you know, spewing a lot of hate at me for

830
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 3: having this, for making this post on the internet or whatever,

831
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: or telling me how awful I am and how horrible

832
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 3: the human being I am, I recognize that he's just

833
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 3: speaking from the scientology puppet, you know, like master, Like

834
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 3: he's literally just he's parroting things that he's been told forever,

835
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 3: and he's controlled. He doesn't get to control his own

836
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: thoughts about it. He's already been told how you react

837
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: when this happens. Does it matter if it's your sister

838
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: and he's been removed from my environment for so long.

839
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 3: We're not even family really, I mean we are, but

840
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 3: obviously we're not together. We don't spend time together, We

841
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: almost never see one another. So it's really easy to

842
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 3: just be like Cyanara.

843
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's very empathetic of you to be able

844
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: to recognize that it's not just him being mean, and

845
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: it's not coming from him necessarily. It's coming from the

846
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 1: system he's in.

847
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 3: And especially someone like him who grew up with it.

848
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: It's not he didn't. He knows no other lens. It's

849
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 3: the only lens there's are like, oh, remember before times?

850
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 3: Now there's no before times?

851
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 4: Right right?

852
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 1: Are you on social media? Would you like to share

853
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: your handles? You don't have to, but if you want, sure, I'm.

854
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: On social media. I'm on Instagram pretty much. I think

855
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: my handle for everything is just at April snow Cast,

856
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 3: which is my name cass Is with a K. I

857
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 3: am on clubhouse and I invite anybody that it has

858
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 3: been in a cult, or has experience with family and

859
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 3: in cults or what have you to join my club.

860
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 5: I want to.

861
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so at April stowcast on Clubhouse too, and then

862
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 3: my club is on there and it's called Survivor Circle,

863
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 3: but cult Survivor Forums are bi weekly conversation at six

864
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 3: pm PST. You guys actually should totally come on because

865
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 3: you'll probably meet some wonderful people that you might like

866
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: to interview on your own podcast. And there are people

867
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: from all walks of life there that have suffered from

868
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 3: different various cults. So yeah, anyone listening that just needs

869
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: like a support system that is probably one of the

870
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 3: best groups of people that I that I know to

871
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 3: talk about trauma with.

872
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds like the only reason I would ever

873
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: want to go on Clubhouse, So.

874
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: Pretty much the only reason I go on Clubhouse Wednesday.

875
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 3: It's Wednesdays Pacific standard. We just had one last Wednesday,

876
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: so we won't have one this coming websday. We'll have

877
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: one the following Wednesday. If you find me on there

878
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 3: and you join the club, then it's the first club

879
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: in my you know, clubs on my page at April

880
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 3: Snowcass and then you'll get alerted every time. So we

881
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 3: started a book club as well, but we've been pretty

882
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 3: bad at it. We've been reading Sapiens by you've all

883
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 3: Noah Harari, which is very interesting.

884
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: I've been wanting to read that for forever, but it

885
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 1: has not happened yet.

886
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 3: Very interesting.

887
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 5: Okay, all right.

888
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: All right, Well, so nice to meet you, and thank

889
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: you so much for talking to us.

890
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, thanks for chatting with me too. Nice to

891
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 3: kind of meet you, guys.

892
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: Okay, well that's April, folks. I really like April. I

893
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: would like to hang out with April and be friends

894
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 1: April tech lola. So anyway, well, we already discussed last

895
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: week whether or not you joined Scientology. We already know

896
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: the answer. So do you have any just random Scientology

897
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: stories that we can throw in here?

898
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: I guess I have something that kind of involves Scientology.

899
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: You tell me if it works or not. But essentially,

900
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 2: three years ago, I got so drunk that I had

901
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: to spend the night at my friend's house. And the

902
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: next morning, I just like started walking home and I

903
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: was passing that huge Scientology center that just lasts forever,

904
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: and I just kept throwing up in their bushes, like

905
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 2: over and over and over again, and I got really

906
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: paranoid that like someone was gonna I don't know, punish

907
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: me like I don't know.

908
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: It was somehow.

909
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was just like, this is not smart, but

910
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 5: I couldn't stop.

911
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: So I'm definitely, you know, in this system somewhere as

912
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: like a suppressive throw up person.

913
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: I hope I'm in the system somewhere as a suppressive.

914
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: That'd be so fluttering. Yeah, we have to be right

915
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: an SP. They don't call them suppressed, or maybe they do.

916
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: I don't know an SP. I'm Lola, and I'm an

917
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: SP proud of it, I don't. I feel like I've

918
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: told all my Scientology stories, although when I was fifteen,

919
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: all the side note the puking in the book, I

920
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: feel like that's just karma and they deserve it and

921
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 1: everyone else should also puke in their bushes. Yes, anytime

922
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: they're drunk.

923
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 5: It was so much. It was so much.

924
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: They don't deserve it, meaning all the members, but I

925
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: mean the people who perpetuate harm within the organization obviously, Okay,

926
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: I guess I remember like when I was sixteen living

927
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: in Burbank with my mom, and there were some people

928
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: in our apartment complex who told me about Scientology for

929
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: the first time, and they told me about this system

930
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: of like colors where when you overcame different emotions, you

931
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: would like ascend to a different color. And I was

932
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: so into it when they told me I had no

933
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: idea what scientology was. This was like a completely I

934
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: was like, ooh, a new ag thing that sounds fun.

935
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: A system of organizing our self betterment. Love that.

936
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 5: And then at what point were you like, wait a minute.

937
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: I think someone else, like probably someone from my school

938
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: or one of my friends or something, was like scientology,

939
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: that's weird, and and then stop that. I sort of

940
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: stopped being interested in them.

941
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 5: Well, thank god for pair pressure.

942
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it's weird, I'm not weird. Uh.

943
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 1: And I always wondered what it would be like to

944
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,439
Speaker 1: go clear. Maybe one day I will become clear because

945
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: then you're invisible and that's fun.

946
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

947
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 5: With enough acid, I think anyone can become clear. That's

948
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 5: my theory.

949
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: Well, on that note, let's all do some acid.

950
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 2: Thank you guys for listening to another episode of Trust Me.

951
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: We hope that you have an amazing week and that

952
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 2: you follow your gut, watch out for red flags, and

953
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 2: never ever trust me.

954
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: Bye