WEBVTT - Part One: Dutch Squatters Accidentally Save The Country From Ruin 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:02.880 Hello, and welcome to you. Cool People did Cool Stuff 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.080 the podcast I got bored of trying to find clever 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:09.080 ways to introduce about a month ago. I'm your host, 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.080 Margaret Kills, right, and every week I tell you about 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.120 some cool people who way to think work cool. Today, 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:18.000 my guest is Alex Biel's the host of Wonderstrom, radical 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.680 Dutch podcast. Alex, how are you doing? And how badly 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.200 did I pronounced the name of your podcast and or 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:27.680 your name? Hi? Lovely to be here. I'm great, A 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:35.120 little bit sweaty um yep. Pronunciation was it was? Okay? Um? 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:41.760 It should be almost strong? Okay strong? Yeah, okay. What 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.400 is that podcast? It's uh yeah, so like you like 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.960 you say, it's a radical podcast. It's a monthly and 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:56.080 it combines basic radical leftist political concept and a more 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:00.720 sort of like practical aspect about how do we organize 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.640 and like my personal ideas about it. Sometimes I go 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.000 like into like more philosophy esque stuff, but mostly it's 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:13.600 these these two two sides. Okay. We also have Sophie 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.200 on the call, Sophie as our producer. How are you doing, Sophie? 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.279 It just reminds me whenever I hear you know something 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.560 not in the English language, how fucking ugly English is. 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.840 Dutch words are so much cooler. English words are so 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:34.960 basic there, it's like, you know, it's depressing, really but greener, 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.880 I guess, yeah for sure. I mean, how do you say, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:39.959 how do you say? Cool people did cool stuff? And 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:49.000 Dutch cool? Way better, way better, way better. Um, but yeah, 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.440 that's just my thought at the beginning of this episode. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:58.800 Way better. Alright, So changing the name of the podcast, Um, okay, So, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.400 so first of all, I think Sophie is wearing a 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.320 black hoodie in honor of today's topic. Actually, I don't 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:04.960 know if the's a hood might just be a black sweatshirt. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:10.280 There's definitely no hood, but it is and we have 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:16.960 alex on because today we are talking about rad Dutch stuff. Specifically, 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.120 we're going to talk about some people who had a 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.360 problem and they went out and solved that problem for 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.440 themselves and for others, which is kind of the basis 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.799 of being a cool person from my current point of view. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.600 And the problem that these particular folks were facing was 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:31.920 that people didn't have enough houses to sleep in. The 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.839 solution was, well, there are some empty houses, so why 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.720 don't we break into those houses and then sleep there. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.880 Because today we're going to talk about the Dutch squatters 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.080 movement that peaked in the eighties but has gone on 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.920 for decades. They started out looking for shelter. They wounded 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.400 up preventing real estate prospectors from kind of destroying half 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.839 the buildings in the Netherlands, all while building the infrastructure 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.120 that birthed a lot of the modern anti fascist movement, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.679 not just the Dutch anti fascist movement, it a lot 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.200 of the it's like fascist movement in the West, Alex 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.880 Have you ever heard of squatting? Yeah, so I have, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.120 So I have. It's if you're any kind of radical 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.560 or activists in the Netherlands, you you really can't get 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:21.160 around it. Um all stable social centers that are available 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.080 to the movement, or most of them have a history 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.919 in squatting, like they're legalized squads or squads that have remained. 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.920 And like a lot of like you say, like infrastructure 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:37.600 and activist groups are organized around squatted spaces or they 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.960 meet there, they formed there, and like a lot of 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.400 the networks of who've been active for a long time 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:47.880 or who get active often they come in through squatting. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:54.600 Squatting actions or projects that are related to the squatting movement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.160 and it's it's one of those things that I think 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.400 that when people, especially from the United States, where I 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.680 can only speak to people from the United States, when 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.880 they start seeing squatting in Europe in general, but in 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.960 the Netherlands in particular, it UM is often fairly inspirational, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.520 and I try to be a somewhat inspirational podcast. This 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.240 is why I'm really excited to talk about this topic, 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.640 which I think actually sometimes annoys the Dutch squatters that 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.040 Americans are like, you all are doing so great, and 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:26.159 they're like, everything's actually really hard. Yeah I've heard this before. Yeah. Yeah. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.039 Also people who come by, we're like smith and like, oh, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.200 there's all these these spaces and these things you can do, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.640 and then like even like people like move here, and 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.200 then they're like, oh wait, it's actually it's actually not 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.520 that great. It's not you don't actually have that much 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.839 moon room to maneuver, right, Yeah, yeah, you know. I 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.720 mean that's why it's not a happy, perfect utopian thing, 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.320 but it's still a really interesting thing. UM. And I 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.160 will argue that this episode, this this idea starts where 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.960 all things start with a bed, a table, and a chair, 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.760 because in nineteen fourteen the Supreme Court of the Netherlands 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.200 ruled that in order to prove that you live somewhere, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.839 all you need to prove that you are the occupant 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.200 of a building as you need a bed, a table 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.240 and a chair. If you live in a space, you 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.080 know those three things, you are the occupant of that space, 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:22.400 not the owner, but the occupant. So in the nineteen thirties, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.719 during the Great Depression, tons of people in the Netherlands 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.560 started moving into empty houses, um but as far as 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.280 I can tell, didn't conceptualize of themselves as a movement. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.120 This wasn't the squatters movement. This was people squatting. In 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.760 five after the expulsion of the Nazis, more people went 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:41.400 and did the same thing. Um. But most squatters in 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.920 both of these times were kind of just either secretly 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.640 occupying a place or they were moving in publicly but 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.360 in order to force the owner's hand into renting to them. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.400 And both are super valid things to do, but neither 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.600 are the sort of politicized squatting that we'll be talking 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.000 about in a moment Like this is kind of just 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.600 any squatting, like squatting is of old times. People always 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.560 squatted to some extent, but like, yeah, having like as 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:11.720 this politicized movement quite new, Yeah, totally, and in the 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.640 nineteen sixties and the Netherlands has started to change. So 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:21.040 real estate speculation, or if you're feeling a bit less polite, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.760 you can call this house milking. Very simple concept. You 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.599 buy up houses and then you leave them empty, waiting 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.520 for them to be worth more. Like when the economy approves, 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.640 since there's fewer houses on the market, the housing prices 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.920 go up and the houses you own are now worth more. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.200 Even more sinister than leaving these houses intentionally empty. When 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:45.039 people need houses, you can leave the buildings to be neglected. 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.480 And so that all these old historic houses and the 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.760 Nevolands has beautiful old architecture. Um, all of these old 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.120 houses they fall into ruin. And as soon as they 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.440 start falling into ruin, it's easier for the owners to 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.960 get demolition permits to like knock them over and build 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:04.760 cheap modern condos and ship like that. Um, So letting 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.359 in houses fall into ruin is good business. And I 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.640 would argue that this is a bad thing. Every part 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.000 of what I just described, Yeah, it's it's interesting because 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.560 this this thing, it's still still very current um. Even 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.640 if it's not for demolition, then it can be like 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.520 we were going to renovate it, but to renovate it's 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.400 going to take a while, so the occupants need to 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:30.240 go away. Even if like their social rent social housing, um, 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.880 then this letting things fall into disrepair can still be 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:37.080 used now as a tactic to force the people out 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.080 or to bully them out of the social housing and 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.480 then renovate the space and then bring in buyers instead 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.920 or like more expensive rent. Yeah yeah, uh. And that's 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.520 one of the things that's get kind of sad about 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.280 like a lot of this stuff, is that this was 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.040 a thing that did a lot of good um, but continues. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.880 All of the problems that the Dutch squatters were facing 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.240 at this time are old things faced um all over 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.960 the world. This is probably not gonna be too unfamiliar 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:06.840 to two people. In the US. Right now, we're having 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.720 this huge wave of basically large companies buying up all 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.600 the available houses um, and the housing market is kind 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.679 of going wild right now, just as homelessness as starting 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.880 to pick up again in the U S. And then 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.880 it's actually interesting the numbers of on housed folks in 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.800 the US isn't incredibly higher than fifteen years ago. Um, 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.720 but the it's way more visible in a lot of ways, 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.320 and a lot of the fights around it are being 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.080 a lot more politicized. Okay. So in the nineteen sixties 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.559 in the Netherlands, housing speculation was all the rage of 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.120 the capitalists and future friends of the pod the Provo movement, 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.520 who were kind of a and tell me if I'm 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.560 wrong about this, but I have the Provos is kind 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.840 of a super political Dutch post hippie movement. Yeah that's 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.959 sound sounds about right. They're often described as a as anarchists, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.400 but they're also closely related to uh to hippie, the 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.640 hippie movement. Yeah, okay, So they started doing some of 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.760 the first politicized squatting in the Netherlands that I was 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.480 able to find. They would start squatting buildings in order 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.120 to fight against speculation, and squatting got its modern name 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.840 at the time during that period kraken or cracking. So 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.280 squatters got the name crackers, which is funny to an 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.640 American audience. I have to do. Yeah, that's great. Um. 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.360 So in in so I've been to squats where there's 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.480 banners like release the Kraken, like release the Kraken. Yeah, 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.360 because it's you know, it's you have this big, big 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.960 squid with like crawled and crowbars and bandanas and uh 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.720 you know, free food and stuff. Yeah. And sometimes they 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.040 make them out to draw them like really cuddly or 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:51.640 really threatening. Yeah. It's also funny, is the word kraken 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.120 is in a way it's more menacing than squatting. The 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.760 squatting is this sort of sitting on your on your heels, yeah, 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.760 whereas kraken is like to crack something like a nutcracker 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.440 or like a safe cracker. Um, which which connects to 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.000 this like like the conservatives, liberal conservatives in the Netherlands, 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.240 they always try to do this thing where they say 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:17.040 trying to make squatting into this crime. Right, So there 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:22.360 they have the slogans like kara it's in breka, Okay, 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:27.480 I'm squatting is burglary. Yeah, but but they say for that, 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.480 right because it's like like it's on the same page 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:36.200 as like safe cracking, house cracking. Yeah. Um, so it 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.240 has it has some power in the world, but it's 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.440 also like, yeah, in the crime area, no, and I 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.599 like it and well, but one of the things I 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.319 ran across is it claimed that the word is derived 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.840 from old Dutch thieves can't. And if that's true, I 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:52.880 like it because things that make the real world, like 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:58.120 dungeons and dragons make me happy. Um and dungeons dragons 0:10:58.120 --> 0:10:59.920 is going to come up a second time in the script. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:05.199 Just gonna leave that out there for everyone, so go ahead. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.640 Oh yeah, no, So the thieves scouts is a fun thing. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:13.000 There's a uh like the Amsterdam Dutch dialect actually has 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.920 a lot of influence from this this thieves count, which 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.720 is called bad Huns, which has like a lot of 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:22.760 influence from um, yeah, just words from thievery, but also 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.640 like Jewish Yiddish influences and stuff all mixed together in 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.440 a fairly sort of recognizable thing. And you have like 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.560 Bahun's dictionaries that you can buy and like old books shops, 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.560 and that's really cool. I want one. Even though I 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.040 um lived in the Netherlands for a while and cannot 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.520 pronounce Dutch to save my life. I think I pronounced 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.440 it perfectly fine. The Dutch people around me don't think 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.280 I pronounced it perfectly fine. So the laws in the 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.000 Netherlands were for a long time they were favorable a squatters, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.800 at least compared to some other countries like the US. 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.480 In one they got even better. Some squatters in the 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.240 Dutch city of Nimegan got run out of the house 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.920 they were living in and the owner was like, the 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.160 house wasn't empty, it was for sale. They came into 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.720 my for sale house. The Supreme Court heard the case 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.280 an appeal and was like, look, a house in use 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.840 means a house in use as a house. And this 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.720 established the concept of domestic peace and Dutch law um, 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.560 which is basically anyone entering a property needs permission from 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.760 the current occupant, not the owner, but the occupant. So 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.640 the person in the house with a bed, table and 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.640 chair has domestic peace as the one who is allowed 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.680 to decide who comes and goes. So from this point 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:39.360 on for a while, until we'll get to that legally, 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.120 most squatters could only be evicted by court order, So 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.959 the cops ostensibly can't just come in and arrestue for 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.880 trespassing because you're the occupant. And this is all the 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.640 kind of the groundwork. People who have a problem, like 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.840 I don't have anywhere to live can address that problem 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.800 by saying, well, this this building is empty, and squads 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.120 would still be evicted all the time, as owners would 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.680 Basically it's not like Okay, you become the document and 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.640 now it's your house and you get to stay there forever. Right, 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.800 owners would decide suddenly that they actually wanted to do 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.120 something with the house. They you know, they were just 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:10.920 like leave a house to be empty for ten years, 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.880 and then squatters move in and they're like, wait, no, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.240 I have all these plans you know, and then they 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.719 go prove that in court, unless they prove it in 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.280 court then and people would get evicted and wake the 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.760 sleeping and dragon because they just want to keep it 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.840 lying around as like they're as they're like, uh, their 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:32.000 savings basically and their growth intra invest and then people 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.080 live in there and it seems like, oh maybe you're 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:38.640 losing it. Then it instantly awakes them. Still yeah, yeah, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.160 I just rewatched the Hobbit. So this is extra true. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.400 And so the first political squatters, the provo movement overall, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.760 and the people coming from that, they try to be 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.440 non violent in terms of how they were building a 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.360 squat movement. And then on November as a squad was 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.199 being evicted. Squatters lined up three rows deep. They link 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.000 their arms together and they shouted no violence, no violence 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.480 at the police. And you will be shocked to now, 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.520 this will be absolutely no one has ever heard of 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.480 this before. But the police didn't listen to them as 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.840 they were chanting. Founded. Yeah, So the squiders all got 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.640 the ship beat out of them, and non violence fell 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.320 out of favor in the squatting movement. And that's when 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:26.000 the squatting movement started to get ship done. Was when 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:30.240 non violence fell out of favor. I remember an old photo. 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.920 It's a black and white photo of a of a 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.280 house squat being defended, and so there's there's people lined 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.760 up in front of it. They were like motorcycle helmets 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.160 in there. They have a banner in front of them, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.360 or maybe it's hanging on the on the on the building. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.600 I don't rightly know. Um. And it says the under 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:54.000 conte discussed meat overvelt theveta and food on it out, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.000 which means the other side does not discuss about violence. 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.240 They pour it into law. They poured into law and 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.160 then they act on it. Right. Yeah. Yeah, some of 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.840 the slogans that come out of the squad scene are 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:12.320 really honestly, really amazing and really poetic. Um. And then 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.120 so okay, right around this time, in the late seventies, 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.360 the Dutch economy goes into this tail spin during the 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.960 worldwide energy crisis. And I haven't fully wrapped my head 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.400 around the Dutch economic troubles, of I know that domestic 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.920 natural gas production had been giving the Dutch and economic 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.280 boom in the seventies, and that this had led to 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.160 high wages in a strong welfare state. And I also 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.280 know that neoliberal publications blame this for the crash. They're like, 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.240 no one wants to work anymore because everyone gets such 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.320 good welfare or whatever, which is once again not familiar 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.920 to any Americans listening to this right now. But it 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.840 seems like the worldwide energy crisis is the reason that 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.840 the Dutch economy went into a tail spinning. Do you 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.560 know much about this? No? Not not quite? Okay, Yeah, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.920 it's um. I mean, I couldn't tell you what happened 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.400 in the late seventies in the U s economy specifically, 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.640 it is released to this. However, it happened unemployment surged 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:06.480 up to seventeen percent by four which for context, for 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.480 some folks who are listening. This is higher than the 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.320 huge spike we saw in the US in March and 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.440 April with COVID, but it's lower than like the Great Depression, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:20.800 right with unemployment, though homelessness surged around nineteen eighty or so, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.440 there were fifty three thousand homeless people in a country 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.640 of only fourteen million people. So that's about point three 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:31.080 eight percent people were homeless. And in contrast, the US 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.120 is dealing with a ton of homelessness right now. It's 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.120 fifty two thousand people out of three nine million to 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.680 point one seven percent. It's less than half. The current 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.880 major homelessness crisis that we're facing in the US is 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.920 less than half of what the Dutch were facing in 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.320 the late seventies early eighties. And while all this is happening, 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.080 the real estate prospectors are like, well this rules like okay, 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.760 well you know, let's just hold onto these houses and 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.400 drive up the prices even more. Um And I remember 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:05.520 being told by squatters, and I can't source this. I 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.480 remember being told by squatters that about a third of 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.600 the houses in Amsterdam were empty for a while in 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.640 the early eighties. Is that you have any idea, Well, 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:17.280 very very very many. Definitely, Um, I don't I don't 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.159 know the exact uh figure, but I know I know, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.119 and like currently like now that the squading movement has 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:27.320 gone or like it's not gone, like it's diminished. Um, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.600 you get like one third of the house being sold 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:34.120 now is like to like a big investor. So it's 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.159 basically trying to do the same thing again. But no, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.120 there was like huge emptiness of houses. Yeah, and when 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.040 you have people who are motivated to do something about it, 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.159 you have somewhat favorable laws, and you have tons of 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.000 empty houses, and you have tons of people need houses, 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:55.040 you get the squatters movement. Uh. And it it didn't 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.760 start as a political statement or resistance to anything, at 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.000 least not as conceived of by most of its participant, 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.400 but it carried a specific important political ideal, nonetheless, which 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.280 is that you can just do things right, that you 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.520 don't need to ask the state for permission, um, that 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.119 you can solve your problems directly. And and it's because 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.760 of this that it rejected the political assumptions of this. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.400 It kind of rejected a lot of the political assumptions 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.080 of the left that have been going on before that, 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.359 and it took on a more anarchist character, and of 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.840 course the provos that it came from also were you know, 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.560 part of anarchist movement, and not in that all of 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.800 the participants were anarchist, but that many of them were, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.439 and that the squads were intended as direct action rather 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.000 than political action. One of the easiest examples to give 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.199 of direct action. Also, Yeah, you want to explain, like 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.760 when when is it indirect? Well, if you're trying to 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.080 influence someone to do something, and we as direct when 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.280 you solve the problem yourself, like for instance, need a house, 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:56.439 you get you use a house. Yeah, it's so simple. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:57.800 It's like one of the things as I was I 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.480 was writing the script is over and over again and 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.720 just run acros us this Like no, it's just really 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.679 like it really just comes down to like that billion 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.360 is empty and I'm cold, you know. Yeah yeah, yeah, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.919 and it makes me really happy. But it's it's interesting. 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.879 So I don't know too much about like the history, 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.280 like I haven't studied the history specifically, but we get 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.600 we get like stories from people who are active for 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:24.440 longer um and for us, like for me, like squatting 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.520 is like this ah sort of living tradition or like 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:35.240 long standing movement that's aside all the other movements. Um. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.080 But you but you can tell like the the origin 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.719 of certain bits of like squatter culture in this like 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:45.320 the this very direct like autonomous just solve this thing 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.520 by yourself. It's very d I y culture way of 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:53.800 doing things, like you instantly recognize it. Um. Also like 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.760 among squads, like like the direct direct support, like I 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.880 need to move something, I will use your bucke ask them, 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.439 but it's like just assumed of course you're going to 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:08.280 need it. Um so oh so like sometimes it's like 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.440 so so fast that you're that like they sort of 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.400 assume that you know, you have their permission with some things. 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.800 It's like, um oh, but you're doing this thing, so 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:20.960 you you want my buck feets right? So I had 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:22.840 it there, like I cleaned up a little because I 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.720 thought you might want it. Yeah, for anyone who's listening 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.480 to box feeds. Is a pickup a pickup truck bicycle 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.480 where the bed of the pickup is in the front 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:34.879 and it is entirely based on the fact that the 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.320 Netherlands is entirely flat. Because these things are gigantic and 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.440 heavy and they rule. But I don't think they would 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:45.560 work anywhere with hills. Well, I will say the canal 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.080 bridges in Amsterdam are still yeah, a challenge. I've ever 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.280 written a box feeds full of stuff over one of 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:57.400 those before, Um yeah, I must do, must try, yeah, yeah, 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:58.920 and okay. And And that's actually one of the things 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:00.960 that I found so interesting right is as I'm reading 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.879 about this culture that developed in the early eighties and 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.119 late seventies, my experience, for anyone who's listening, is about 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.040 six months of living in squats in the Netherlands in 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.200 like two and the culture that I'm reading about as 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:19.240 I'm researching this is just the culture that I experienced 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.720 while I was there, and it's you know, it had 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.399 developed in a lot of ways that had you know, 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.520 certain practices felt more concrete by the time I was there. 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.320 But it, like you're saying, it's this living practice that continues, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.960 and it's so interesting to me because it's, I don't know, whatever, 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.720 it's interesting me for a lot of reasons. Uh So, 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.760 the early movement quickly found the organizational structure that it 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.160 um that it continued to have for a very long time. 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.480 And it's an organizational structure kind of like what you're 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.280 talking about. It's built on autonomy at every level, but 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.680 also organization at every level. Individual squatters are autonomous within 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.719 their squad by and large, they live their individual lives 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.160 autonomous but in coordination with their squad mates. The squats 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.919 themselves are autonomous from, but in court nation with their neighborhood. 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.920 And then most of the organization happens at the neighborhood level. 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.960 Each neighborhood has its own like a squatters council essentially 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.119 that meets to coordinate opening new squads and defending squads. 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.639 And they acted autonomously from anything that's happening in on 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.159 a citywide or nationwide level. Yet individual cities and the 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.399 entire country are capable of coordinating certain actions as necessary. 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.040 And I think this rules. I think this is a 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:30.440 really good model, um. And it the beauty and strength 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:35.280